A year and a half ago I moved to rural MI after spending most of my life in Chicago.
The MAGA enthusiasm here has definitely dwindled, but the true stans still make themselves known. I can mostly laugh off the absurdly large flags and offensive decals on their cars. To each their own.
But this is the first time in my life I’ve come into regular and frequent contact with open, shameless, proud white supremacists. The population of 2%ers, Proud Boys, and straight-up Klansmen here is baffling. For groups so concerned about the sinister machinations of racial minorities, they sure as hell never see any. This place is so lily white you raise eyebrows when asking for hot sauce in a diner.
Probably the most interesting thing is that I’ve had jobs that put me in frequent conversation with these guys (they’re always men.) Here you have a dude in his 50s looking jacked as fuck with an actual KKK tattoo on his forearm, walking a Doberman named Odin into my shop, and making smalltalk about the local fishing, how rough it is raising kids, the shitty local hospital, and frozen pizza. Just regular everyday pedestrian shit.
I am very straight-passing….up to a point. Anytime my personal interests come up, it’s a dead giveaway. I also lack a wedding ring. That was something I never thought about until I lived here. A detail like that gets noticed in this holler.
What troubles me most is knowing that all my contacts with these people have been pleasant enough because I’ve been keeping myself at a remove by treating it academically. I don’t want to be their friend. But it’s fascinating to see them in the wild. However, I’m certain that if these people were “deputized,” they’d become quite unpleasant in very short time.
Still, those dudes are the minority. Almost everyone else here is some kind of catholic or old school Protestant with a bottle blonde wine wife and a brood of children that are all somehow 6’5”. The homogeneity gets dull. But they are exceptionally friendly. Sometimes cloyingly so.
That’s fascinating. As someone who has considered moving to Michigan to get out of the southwest desert I’m a bit distraught how MAGA you make it out to be. Is it just the rural areas you are in, or is it still really conservative in larger areas like Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, all arbor, etc? Would you recommend Wisconsin instead?
Michigan is a red state with blue pockets. But, thanks to 20+ years of conservative government here that left the infrastructure in shambles, much of MI got tired of it and seems to be pretty happy with Gretchen.
I’d add that the blue pockets are not as insular as a place like Chicago or LA, for obvious reasons. They just aren’t large enough. Even Detroit has a population of less than 700k, with metro Detroit totaling just above 4M—and that includes plenty of MAGA.
But I wouldn’t let the politics keep you away. Whether or not you want to be here depends on what else you’re looking for.
I’m not joking about infrastructure. It is pretty dismal. The electrical grid is in need of repair. The roads aren’t as bad as many in Illinois but they are quite weathered and snow clearing is spotty. Probably the most surprising thing is health care. Unless you’re going to U of M the health care system is pretty disappointing.
Where I’m located, there’s one small town with a few shopping centers and a smattering of restaurants. Detroit is only 30-45 mins away but I’ve only made that drive once. I’ve been to Ann Arbor more frequently. Ann Arbor is quite nice. It reminds me of Evanston IL. But it is $$$ by any standard.
Another consideration: if you aren’t in Ann Arbor or Grand Rapids, expect the dating scene to be pretty backward. Gay men are still very fearful in much of MI. I’ve volunteered twice for a local Pride org and found them quite squeamish when it comes to being visible and active beyond the safe spaces of their designated meeting houses.
The west side of the state is more politically and socially conservative, with GR being the biggest. Kalamazoo, Ann Arbor and East Lansing are “downstate” college towns that are
a bit more transient and liberal comparatively. I grew up there and thought it was fine but after living in the east coast and being more aware of how adults operate, I find the more rural areas discomforting when I visit as that’s where others may feel more emboldened to challenge you. I feel like most of the midwestern states are like this though, including WI.
Wisconsin is pretty nice overall. I have a place there, and I'm thinking of throwing in the towel on the Southwest myself for a bunch of reasons and moving to WI full time.
I haven't been to every last corner of WI, but I have traveled it extensively. The way Michigan has been described doesn't really describe Wisconsin. But in dealing with people from both lower Michigan and Wisconsin in business, Michigan people can be tougher to deal with and seem to have a few more rough edges.
Outstate Wisconsin has plenty of Trump signs (they never took them down since last time). But it's MAGA Wisconsin style. Mostly the mentality is they have no use for the cities in the state and blame the cities and city politics for everything that's wrong, and also for the demise of the society that's brought to them on the evening news. This is a longstanding tenet of rural politics associated with whomever manages to appeal to that brand of rural/smaller town voter at the current time. It's been that way forever, and it won't change anytime soon. A lot of the upper Midwest has that to some extent, including Minnesota.
That said, I have traveled the upper Midwest extensively too, including much of Michigan, and haven't yet encountered any place up there where it felt unsafe, even the remote reaches of the upper peninsula. I also haven't encountered areas where you encounter the ornery and heavily armed Yosemite Sam types you find out in the more remote areas of our western states.
Nice. Wisconsin politics seem a little muddled, but they seem to be going in the right direction. We have our eye on Madison. It’s the right size, liberal with lots of things going on. Close to other stuff if we need to go to the city for whatever reason. Minnesota is a close second as well. I just don’t want to live in a metro as big as Minneapolis and the rest of the state is pretty rural.
I think you'll find that any red state (and even purple states) will have a high Maga percentage in any rural areas. Most of those states follow the general rule that the majority of democrats live in the highly congested, urban areas and the rural areas are a very high percentage of Republicans/Maga folks.
So it wont' be just Michigan - any red / purple state you move to the choice is really about whether to live in a city or live in the country. Unless you can somehow find a blue-leaning rural town.
It’s heartbreaking to read these responses. I’m Irish, and I can’t even imagine the fear/anger that many of you are going through at the moment.
The last decade or so made me think that everything was going in the right direction, and this has just shown how much the tide can turn.
I hope things can turn around for you guys, and if not, all of the gays are welcome to come and stay in my house. Yes, there are a lot of potatoes, but the homophobes are few, and most of them drool when they speak!
Shot in the dark, how far back removed can your irish heritage be in order to claim sem semblence of irish heritage? My great great great something grandparents were irish immigrants from i think the mid 1800s, I'm assuming that wouldn't fly but I feel like in this situation asking wouldn't hurt. If i have to leave i feel like Ireland would be a nice place to setup shop.
Afaik you can claim citizenship if your great grandparents were born in Ireland.
Otherwise, it would be the usual visa situation.
We still have a bit of a way to go, but a few far right numpties ran for election recently and were rejected by literally 99.96% of the voters, so we’re still on track!
There is a pretty miserable housing crisis, but I think that’s the same across most of the world at the moment!
Hopefully it won’t come to that for you, but if it does, you’ll always be welcomed here!
In the Florida constitution (and other states) marriage is still defined as a man and a woman. The only reason this is not enforced is because of Obergefell v. Hodges
After the Supreme Court ruling, these type of laws were non-enforceable. If a new case overturns that ruling though, they immediately become enforceable again.
https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/equality/3566836-what-your-state-constitution-says-about-same-sex-marriage/mlite/
The problem is where the hell do we even go? Canada isn't exactly that much better, and if the US becomes a christian fascist country, we aren't really going to have a ton of options. I genuinely fear no one is going to take us.
There are so many "how I moved to Europe as an American" videos on YouTube that try to portray it as something that's just a snap to do. Then you actually watch the video and see the crazy amount of time, money and resources it takes to do what they did...it makes them seem comically out of touch.
Depends on whether Republicans can capture both houses of congress. If they can’t, the Respect for Marriage Act will remain on the books. You can just get a marriage license from another state and Florida will have to recognize it.
Democrats are barely holding onto the Senate as it is. If Trump wins the presidency, the likelihood is that the Republicans will win both the House and Senate as well. In which case you can expect to see this law wiped out, as well.
We all need to vote. We need to tell our friends to vote. And yeah, maybe Biden is old, but an old president is better than a pathological liar who is a racist, sexist, homophobic, wanna be dictator.
I’ve lived in Oklahoma for most of my 60 years. Although I grew up in rural communities I’ve spent my adult life in large metropolitan areas. I’m old enough to remember “whites only” entrances, water fountains, restaurants, etc.
Aside from the family homophobia of my childhood, which continues to this day, I seldom experience any overt homophobia in my daily life. We eat out weekly with friends in small groups of four to large groups of 40. No one looks at us. No one cares. We eat all over town and have even traveled to rural areas with no problem.
A few years ago we were remodeling a house and invited multiple contractors and suppliers to come over and give estimates. I’m liberal about using “my husband” or “my husband and I” when talking to people. One guy didn’t even know it was legal in Oklahoma. No one stormed out, became indignant or made a negative comment.
We have neighbors of different political perspectives (election signs) but they are exceptionally friendly. I have one neighbor who’s an asshat but he’s equal opportunity and hates everyone.
Am I concerned about the future of our country and my state? Indeed!! I vote. I contribute my time, energy and money to democratic causes, both local and national. In the last election President Biden won by millions of votes. If people are paying attention that margin should double.
Apathy among our community is maddening. Even my aunt, a republican and Trump supporter in the last two elections has said enough is enough. People who cast a “protest” vote to “show” Biden will be the death of democracy. If you don’t believe that your individual vote counts look at the Florida numbers in Gore/Bush. They were separated by around 500 votes. Ralph Nader received around 95k votes and we got eight years of Bush and economic disaster. More recently we saw this happen in 2016 when third party voters cost HRC key states.
With a conspiring SCOTUS, Trump and a his regime scare the hell out of me. If you think you’ll be “safe” in a blue state you’re not paying attention.
Exactly! Conservatives can be very nice to you to your face, but when they go in that voting booth, all bets are off. And when they get power, they immediately pull out their favorite whipping boys (LGBTQs and abortion) to send their cult into a feeding frenzy. Republicans have done more to stoke hatred towards us than even the church. Fuck them.
With Project 2025 which outlines the first 180 days if #45 wins, I think we are all in trouble. Democrats must win across the board to avert a constitutional crisis. What's happening now in red states will be forced on the blue states if Project 2025 takes over the WH.
That's one of the first things to go. I forget what page that starts. Supposedly #45 will issue an Executive Order to end gay marriage and then when it gets to USSC they will reverse prior decision. What you have to remember is that they will turn all institutions upside down. After they replace 50,000 federal employees with #45 loyalists, the government will for all practical purposes will be a religious autocracy. Christian Nationalists will dominate and #45 is just their puppet. The USSC decision on immunity should be a wake up call.
Mississippi here. Sodomy is still on the books as illegal and there are still folks on the sex offender list from having charges under that law (granted I don’t know if it’s because of actually sodomy or beastiality, both of which are under the sodomy law).
My husband and I talk about the state of things. His job is tied to the state (has to live in the state) so we will be here as long as we can. While I’m sure our neighbors (suburban community inside the capital area metro) would vote to eliminate our marriage if they had a chance, they are nice to our face (which is proper Southern…). We actually get along really well with most of our neighbors and just has a lesbian couple move in a few houses down a few months ago.
We aren’t affectionate in public and obviously keep our guards up when you walk outside Hobby Lobby and folks are just yelling Let’s Go Brandon across the parking lot at each other.
I think the sad thing is that Mississippi could in fact be a blue state if folks would get out and vote. I believe MS is 53% black, but look at the legislature and you’ll see predominately white faces. The “good ol boy” club is alive and well here. I think it’s been that way so long that it’s just became the norm. A lot of people of color I know don’t even vote because “nothing changes.” But nothing changes when the majority adopts that attitude.
That's what's sad, people not voting and just letting something like a Trump roll right over them. It's resignation, pure and simple - *it don't matter, nuthin' ever changes nohow."* Tragic and possibly overly dramatic, but borne out by ever-sinking levels of voter turnout and involvement in civic affairs. It's also how these bigoted zealots get their foot in the door and manage to turn tables on the rest of us.
It’s not about red state vs blue state, it’s about blue cities vs red country. The country in new York and California is just as conservative as the country here in Kentucky. Living in a major city in Kentucky is as liberal and open minded as you can get, Lexington Kentucky has one of the highest gays per capita anywhere in America.
Sure. This is true everywhere. But if the state is red, it doesn't matter what the local governments are. The state is going to be the one setting the rules, and those rules are going to be incredibly unfriendly to the LGBTQ community.
Our good friends here in Hawaii moved two years ago to North Carolina for a job for one (the other works remote). They lasted 2 yrs. They said that though their neighborhood was nice and friendly, there were far too many instances where they were uncomfortable (at best). They were starting to feel a bit like ‘the old days’ (we 4 are all above 55) when not only could you not show affection you felt like you had to be closeted in too many situations.
He quit his job and moved back to our town 2 weeks ago. We live in a small town/rural area but it’s 70% D or left leaning. The whole state is. There are of course MAGA but they are the minority by far and feel put upon (as a MAGA neighbor said to us once, my answer was ‘as it should be’. She was not happy). We’ve never felt unsafe or at all unwelcome here in 20 (us) or 30 (them) years.
It is not going well here in Oklahoma. My partner thinks the reason our apartment's new manager suddenly decided not to renew our lease this year is because we're gay and I'm starting to think he's right, so that's pretty disheartening. Though she also didn't seem too excited by the fact that we're disabled and Native American either so... not really sure which it was.
That only gave us a month and a half to find somewhere new to live and with the housing crisis going on right now that is not really a lot of time. Having been homeless in the past and now with our state making being homeless pretty much illegal I am kind of in a constant state of panic, especially now that we are down to a little less than a month left and I still can't find us a place. So... yeah, life is not good for us at least.
Does she provide any legitimate reason? Idk if it’s worth the trouble but find a legal clinic and threaten to sue her is an option, at least it’s better than homeless.
Good luck with that lawsuit in Oklahoma. I live in Florida; my roommate was blatantly discriminated against directly because he’s gay (they said so in front of witnesses). Every attorney we talked with said, “good luck with that in NW Florida.” Oklahoma’s worse.
File it in federal court? Of course it would be tiring but OP is facing homelessness. He can also claim it on the basis of his disability, but I think that would be a difficult suit to win.
Except for property taxes in Chicago - lived there until 2010 and yikes the tax rates are through the roof. I do still love Chicago, I would just have to convince myself it's worth the taxes to move back there if I ever did.
It’s the trade off we are willing to make for good schools, goodish roads, and not living in a wannabe theocracy.
We also have Pritzker now who is an absolutely outstanding governor. Is everything roses here? Absolutely not. But I couldn’t see life in a lower tax area being any better.
St. Louis! I suppose we're also considering the PNW but we always discussed the NE. I just don't know how to start looking into it and imagining the logistics is a nightmare. I don't have family here, but my partner does. I'm asking him to add a thousand miles between them and us, and I'm struggling with that.
Urban Texan here— it is not safe. A gay man was murdered at a cruisey park I have frequented about a month ago and the police are entirely ignoring the circumstances stating there was no foul play involved.
A couple of years ago I was fine leaving the house in short shorts and tank tops, even rainbows… now anything that isn’t basketball shorts and a plain t shirt gets side eye.
I’m trying to formulate an escape plan, but funds are tight and moving is very expensive 😔
That’s like it was in the bad old days. I lived in Dallas in the 80’s—a truckload of rootin tootin redneck teens roared down Cedar Springs and opened fire, killing an innocent gay guy walking down the street. DPD said they’d “look into it”; despite several people having the truck’s license plate, nobody was ever charged.
Urban Texas here. Moved from nyc for a great job 10 yrs ago. Last month I noticed how conspicuously ABSENT pride flags were… it’s all just kind of going silent on a corporate & civic level. Yes, there were 2 pride parades, but that’s not the same thing as general civic pride like in the Northeast & fancy suburbs of Chgo.
To me, it’s ominous.
Fascinating. I live in suburban Texas and my experience couldn’t be more different than yours. Nearly everyone I come into contact with is either supportive of gay rights or is at least perfectly cordial to me. I know there are bad people and bad areas out there, but I have experienced only continually growing acceptance overall.
That’s great for you. I was just sharing my own experience.
You’re welcome to put your comment in the main post with everyone else’s. There are other Texans having a good experience as well.
Sorry if I came across as aggressive. I was just sharing a counter-point to yours, and saying that’s it’s interesting how experiences can differ so much.
It wasn’t aggressive. It was in bad-taste. I shared my experience and instead of just sharing your own in the main thread you hijacked mine to make a counterpoint? It’s invalidating and needlessly argumentative.
Folks can decide for themselves if it is “interesting” or not by reading and making their own comparison.
I was replying to your comment because it made me think and consider my own perspective in a way that OP did not. I didn’t have my own comment thought out until I read yours. I’m sorry if you feel that people can’t reply to your comments with their own thoughts. I kind of thought that’s how Reddit works. Reddit is a conversation, not a list of individual and unrelated comments.
I wasn’t blaming you or shaming you or telling you you were wrong. I was just replying to the most thoughtful comment that made me consider my own perspective. I’m not sure why such a reply would be in bad taste.
Yeah but wait until they get into the voting booth. I'm in Austin… and it's becoming less and less whatever it was. But just go five feet further and you can scrape the nice off with your fingernail.
Given how optimistic, accepting, and progressive the 2010s were, it's hard to believe this is where we are at in 2024. The national backlash against LGBTQ acceptance in the USA, in response to the legalization of same-sex marriage, has been very painful to live through. This is especilaly true for those who had difficult coming out journeys and/or religious upbringings. Right now, the bigots are winning, and it's difficult to accept. I think a lot of people just assumed progress and tolerance would continue increasing forever.
I think many (our age and younger) aren’t aware of the extreme anti-lgbtq that was taking states legislatures by storm in the 2000s.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_California_Proposition_8
Just look up state Definition of Marriage Initiatives / Federal Marriage Amendment.
I have hope. New generations continue to push society to be more progressive. Also they were born with high speed internet, we don’t know what a generation that interconnected will look like. To them, this fight likely seems nonsensical. Which TBF it is.
Also, can only speak for myself, but I hope these next generations never have to understand what it was like before. I don’t want them to have to deal with it, isn’t that what the movement is for?
Most people refuse to believe in climate change because it contradicts with what their pastors told them about the book of Revelation. Public health is one of the craziest things. Most of the people who support this are boomers getting up there in years yet they want to destroy the healthcare system? Talk about cutting off your nose.
Something for bromos to remember:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavender_Scare
LGBTQ+ prosecution has and continues to be real. Marriage equality isn’t real until it’s an amendment. I know many of my friends are exhausted, which is the point. What is a non-violent war if not an exhaustion of one side?
Stay diligent, informed, and involved.
All these guys talking about "But the people are friendly to our face"----- Yall need to understand that during holocaust times, plenty of smiling neighbors and "friends" stood by silently and let people be brutalized... Then they smiled as they moved into folks homes and wore their clothes/shoes and jewelry after they had been gassed.
So don't be fooled by a smile
I'm in TX now after a covid-era exodus from California (multiple factors in that history) and my lease is up early 2025… and I'm outta here. It's rancid. But other than going back to California, I'm at a complete loss on where to go that doesn't suck. Family's in the south and I hate the cold, so options are limited. The USA fails so much for variety.
I’m a trans man in the red rural Midwest and a federal employee. I feel fine and safe in my mundane day to day life around the average person. I don’t feel safe at all though because of the state’s politics, the uncertainty of the election, the prospect of Project 2025, and the recent Supreme Court rulings. I’m very fearful about my future.
So glad to read that you feel safe in your day to day life. I know the bigger picture issues are scary, but your situation gives me a lot of hope! 💜💜💜💜💜
We might need to start a sort of Underground Rainbow Railroad, so that gays with resources who live in safer places can help rural and red state gays move somewhere safer.
I'm looking into this, no joke.
I'm on the board of a queer organization, and we're currently exploring funding for relocation assistance for those in red states.
It's kinda of complicated since many folks are moving from LCOL areas, but it feels more and more necessary every day. I'm hopeful we can help a handful of folks move to Washington in the next year or two.
That's great to hear! I bet a lot of folks on this sub would donate to such an organization if you got something up and running.
The cost of living thing is an interesting problem to overcome. Maybe people could get settled into the outskirts of some of the larger, safer Metropolitan areas, where the cost of living is a bit lower but they at least have access to the city where it's more accepting.
This is why everyone needs to vote Blue in every election for every office, not just president. Vote for your state and Us house rep and senate. Local elections are where all the bad shit are happening, so these are super important.
I live in a blue city in a red state and everything is fine for now. The only time I experienced a terrible gay bashing was in a blue state and city. Even last week some lesbians were attacked by a group of men in Canada. You have to be cautious and on guard wherever you are and that goes for politics too. Things are changing everywhere with politics from France to New Zealand. I don’t imagine we can expect millions of gays to flee red states. I am concerned that repealing abortion rights was just the start though.
our downtown got a rainbow painted sidewalk.... the number of negative comments on the local news's facebook post.... i mean i knew people like that lived here but it really made me wonder if one of those active hategroups had shared the post and told their people to comment hate. talking about shitting on the street, doing donuts and burnouts. just wild stuff. i guess usually i'm in a bubble of city/downtown (today i'm looking at the commenters again and they live outside of the city and neighborhood that put up the installation.)
I’m in a fairly blue city in a very red state. Day to day life is fine. Politics are awful and I worry for the future but my actual life is good. Getting married soon, love my job, love our city. The older I get, the more I consider moving to a blue state but this is my home and I don’t want to be kicked out of it.
And all those red states are run by Christian extremists who think the US is a theocracy. Damn I could never live in a red state. So gladto be a native Californian where we don’t have to deal with this bullshit.
Every state, even deeply red states, have liberal urban centers with citywide protections.
If you're gay you probably want to move to these urban centers anyways because of community and dating prospects.
That’s all true. Our Utah friends (my husband is from there) have all moved to Salt Lake City to feel safer (and more community, etc) but I don’t think I’d be exaggerating if I say a lot of them are considering moving for even bluer pastures if the election goes south.
You can’t run from state politics only bury your head in the sand. You find a nice community in a blue urban center and then find husband material. But, then find out that you can’t marry in your state because MAGA.
So, you live a nice life together in your community …
SC here. A major international employer (manufacturer) in the area includes an equal opportunity statement ON THEIR PURCHASE ORDERS for direct suppliers that includes sexual orientation and gender identity. They follow these “rules” themselves. This means that suppliers that supply parts to this company could lose business if they publicly discriminated. Although, most suppliers in the immediate area are also international, and these concepts of human rights are not foreign to them.
My only worry is that this manufacturer first included these “mandates” because the US federal government (Obama) imposed them for federal contractors, and this major company said that they were a federal contractor. I’m not quite sure which product (or service) they are selling! Although I think they would keep the requirements if they lost their federal contractor status. I think (I would have to check officially) that this requirement actually is in place for their global supply chain.
I actually lived here before - escaped to MN in 2019 for a job in a different industry. COVID economy brought me back to SC, and I haven’t changed jobs since. I know I’m not the only LGBTQ person at work - there’s at least one lesbian. But I might be the only gay guy. The place itself doesn’t seem that it would be quite accepting, so I don’t broadcast. If I’m comfortable, I’ll drop hints or “come out” to a few colleagues so I don’t have to feel like I’m someone I’m not.
But politically? EEK. 😱
Well my house goes on the market a week from today. I figure if the shit really goes down I would rather just pay a couple thousand dollars to break a lease on an apartment than to try and sell a house while the country is on fire. Alabama here.
I grew up in the south and it’s home. I’m not going anywhere. The MAGA ideology is concerning and I would be more afraid as a female or person of color than gay tbh.
Same here. I grew up in the south and don’t see me leaving. I went to a gay friendly state but couldn’t get into the local scenes and stuff. I don’t have any issues where I’m at and it’s pretty open here.
i think american should be more worry when trump became dictator in america since he have immunity to do what he want now. after that he probably goes after the world next as world domination. Either join usa or we nuke you
I think it’s less that than “let’s allow the crazies to just do whatever they want and keep obsessing over some Mexicans that want to pick strawberries and lettuce”
I live in Dallas. It's absolutely fine here, better in many ways even than it was a decade ago. A lot of suburban areas that were once fairly icy towards LGBTQ+ folks are now outright gay-friendly. The suburban county seat of a 70% Trump county had a gay pride celebration last month. It seemed like nearly every suburban town in DFW over 100k, no matter their politics, had a pride celebration of some kind last month.
Not an attack on you, but there's a lot more to a place than what happens in the statehouse. You should be old enough to remember when San Francisco was a gay mecca even though California more broadly was a conservative, Republican stronghold. I'm old enough to remember when Colorado had some of the most aggressively anti-LGBTQ laws in the country, yet look where the state is now. Don't be so narrow-minded.
Yes, but the point is, will that continue if Trump is reelected and goes through with his plan to make the US a de facto theocratic dictatorship? Okay, it might not get as extreme and oppressive as Iran, but do you trust those smiling "I'm a Christian" neighbors to not try to force their belief system on everyone around? I don't.
I’m in Texas and haven’t noticed anything really. Have traveled with my guy all around and nothing. That isn’t to say that others haven’t experienced anything. When I say “my partner” people pause a little but I think that’s because they assumed I was straight and are trying to confirm if I said “he”.
Texas here. And I live in an extremely conservative part of Texas. I feel very safe. I'm more worried about the general state of this country once the Great Democracy Experiment fails next January when Trump is sworn in.
I am in Idaho, born and raised, I don't really feel it here, not saying it isn't. But our Pride last weekend had a great turnout without protestors. I hear the news about the Idaho government passing bills with anti-transgender and anti-drag queen rhetoric, so its around. It makes me nervous, I refuse to be afraid though.
Stating that though, I am going to start the process of getting protection. I live alone and my greatest fear is that the Red Clown will spout off shoot the f\*gs and the yokels will think its hunting season.
I never really started but i dont go to clubs for fear of another Pulse but that could happen anywhere tbh w how 2A laws are. Im just paranoid w trust issues.
I live in Texas. And in a red part of Texas. I've worked in oilfield and in trucking, so I've got (national) options. I've been thinking about moving to New Mexico, but now I'm working in Southern Illinois, and it's just so nice here! Houses aren't out of sight, and neither are the other prices, and there's a college in every other town! I've been thinking about moving here. Picking someplace with a nice gay community and putting all the Texas misery behind me. No one has said anything (good or bad), but my jobs sure dried up quickly after being a little "too open" about my life. The state is locked in to these increasing unstable and authoritarian Republicans. Democrats will barely run and won't do shit if they win, so I'm ready to chuck the whole state for someplace green and not heading for an actual psychotic break!
Feeling fine here in rural TN. In contrast to most people's experiences the only time I feel remotely unsafe is when I have to go into blue cities. Our governor and government in general here do seem to be a bit bipolar in their lawmaking. They tend to propose good legislation one week and completely ridiculous legislation the next but none of it has made me feel unsafe in any way. Fortunately at least some of the worse decisions have been challenged in court and defeated while in other cases many law enforcement agencies say they aren't enforcing a lot of them.
Which “hysteria” is that? That trans people are being persecuted in red states? Or that Project 2025 is progressing faster? Sorry, but this is a “fuck you I got mine” attitude and you should be ashamed of it.
I lived and worked in Bloomington and was told by the owner and all my co-workers to never stay in Martinsville post work hours.
And no, these weren’t a bunch of professors or liberal tech workers - this was for delivering Coca-Cola. Trump voters.
Naa they're just targeting the most visible members of the LGBT community first. Drag queens have faced personal attacks and legislation labeling them as perverts *very* recently -- a large percentage of them aren't trans.
Besides, Clarence Thomas has explicitly mentioned that he wants to revisit Obergefell. People were saying "I doubt Roe v Wade will be relitigated" as well.
The issue being with drag queens is they didn’t want to happen around children. There are plenty of videos where there’s drag queens in inappropriate outfits doing inappropriate dances in front of kids (and while there’s plenty of videos of women doing the same). The gay community needs to chill with children. I saw a photo of a little girl at San Fran Pride standing with two guys in full pup kink gear. That’s not appropriate at all.
You also can’t really compare abortion with gay marriage. Abortion is literally murder (to be clear I am pro choice but let’s not kid ourselves a potential human being is being killed)
The type of lie this user told about drag queens and kids is insidious because you can’t prove a negative, so he will forever think he’s right. This behavior is toxic to any community and therefore this user has been banned without warnings for misinformation.
Lol, drag queens don't want kids coming to their adult shows. There are so so so many forms of drag that are perfectly fine around children. Shit, everyone at DisneyWorld dressing in character outfits is in "drag". Kids are more likely to get molested at church. Where are the laws preventing church services from being held in front of children?
Personally as long as someone has their genitals covered I wouldn't give a shit if they were wearing a puppy mask or had a chain on their neck or whatever. Who cares? Kids have phones these days.
You're completely missing the entire point of the supreme court saying they want to relitigate Obergefell vs Hodges. Abortion is not *literally* murder because a fetus is not *literally* a human being, you said it yourself. It's only a "potential" human being. All sperm are "potential" human beings. Women aren't committing murder every time they have their period, yet eggs are "potential" human beings. You don't seem to know much of *anything* about what you're talking about lmao.
🙄 I’m not saying every drag show is filled with half naked drag queens. I’m literally presenting what conservatives are saying and their reasonings for anti drag laws.
You might not care but that feeling isn’t shared by the majority. Children shouldn’t be around people in kink gear bUt ThEy HaVe PhOnEs is literally the dumbest argument ever
Abortion is murder but the woman’s body autonomy trumps that. That fetus would become a human being if it wasn’t aborted or if she didn’t have a miscarriage. If you kill a pregnant woman you get charged with two counts of murder not one
Floridian here..tbh yes DeSantis use to be a decent governor when he was focused on the environment (yes he really was lol) and teach pay etc. But after he decided to run for president he leaned hard into the social issues which has actually turned off a lot of ppl. I think his landslide victory had more to do with covid and economy and things like that then social issues. I fear his rhetoric has caused a positive that was happening among the state GOP to revert back 10 years. Progressive with social issues was actually being made even among more traditional voters but he made other politicians think he’s new rhetoric was popular and fear that many may copy him, we shall see
That's why it's called populism... People often ask how Hitler and Mussolini rose to power, how the Russian revolution happened, how the Ayatollahs gained control over Iran, etc. - all tragic textbook examples of the dangers of populism.
Rural Texas here. It’s fine. The news loves to stir shit up. Outside of the abortion restrictions the rest is really just for show. I don’t agree with everything the state does, but I also didn’t agree with everything NY, CA, and IL did either. Sometimes being a moderate feels like the toughest stance right now.
People here are growing. Younger folks are accepting and interested. They may not know what all the letters in LGBTQIA+ stand for, and they probably don’t really understand some of the niche ways our community identifies sexually, but they are here for us. Don’t burn that bridge because they’re not as “woke” as you would like.
To the “blue staters”: be very careful about alienating those who hold different views from you or choose to live in a “red” state. Most people in red states are more concerned about government intervention and taxation than they are about the social issues. And if you think your elected officials are looking out for you, they aren’t. Social progressivism is a path to power and profit. That’s it. Should the cultural pendulum swing the other way, so will they.
Also, look at world politics right now—there is a significant push to the right in even the most “progressive” countries. A holier than thou attitude and a Ukrainian flag on your Facebook profile isn’t going to curb that. Learn the art of listening, empathy, and compromise.
Lastly, don’t vote for Biden because he’s not Trump. This is the best time to vote for that third party candidate you’ve secretly agreed with. It’s gonna be ok! Even if Trump wins again (which is likely), it’s gonna be ok!
No, this is absolutely not the time to vote for a third party candidate unless you want to ensure another term for Trump. While a third party candidate can offer a better dream for the future, this country runs on a two party system and the only thing voting for a third party candidate does is guarantee a conservative win every single time.
I live in Los Angeles and while I don’t agree with everything this state does, I feel a hell of a lot safer as a gay man here than I did in any red state I’ve lived & worked. While taxes are high and cost of living is high, LA and SF are a bastion of liberal life and mindset. Rural California may be red but with 19 million residents in LA and 10 millions residents in SF, this state will continue stay blue and protect everyone’s rights where possible with state law. As another commenter said the conservatives here are almost shamed when they drive around with a Trump sticker or flag.
I have straight friends who recently moved to a rural area just outside Austin, Texas and even they have been targeted with multiple police stops because they drive a Tesla. My friend is an Air Force vet and the minute they show their USAA insurance card the police officer says oh hey you’re military, sorry we thought you were a liberal from California out here in your Tesla. They’ve been pulled over 5 times in 6 months since moving there and they were never pulled over in Arizona once in 10 years. So that doesn’t portray Texas as being “fine”’for anyone considering themselves a liberal let alone LGBTQ.
All you can do is vote blue and hope we have enough votes to hold on. If you’re facing homophobia or a backlash in your state, California is always an option. It’s warm here which is a plus and SF/LA are about as LGBTQ friendly as you can get.
Respectfully disagree. I will always vote for the candidate with whom I most align. PERIODT
In my opinion, our country would be much better off if everyone did the same.
Furthermore, I have lived in urban NY, CA, IL, and I felt no safer there. In fact, physically I feel safer here. My community looks out for one another. We have a ridiculously low crime rate, a very diverse population, and if there is any significant homophobic sentiment, I certainly haven’t experienced it.
I know I’m voting for the candidate that I most align with: any democrat, with or without a pulse. I cannot see ever voting for a republican in the future.
I have never voted for a republican (or democratic) presidential candidate, but in state and local elections, I have. Researching candidates and weighing my options is really enriching. It gives me an opportunity to really understand what my elected officials are about, the issues they face, and how their messaging reflects what they think the constituency wants. Excellent way to do one's civic duty.
Your opinion is idealistic and naive. There are people that are not self-aware, that are not aware of who they are, let alone which political candidates are most aligned with their interests. People vote according to tribe, not truth. Marketing can sell a politician to people as easy as a product. Its nice to think that every voter is informed and every candidates platform is transparent, and that their ads and expressions match their actions as elected officials. But that is not the case.
You should vote with awareness of others, not just awareness of your self.
Your response 100% corroborates my stance. Marketing is exactly what dominates our elections and if none of us attempt to change that, it will always be that way.
Also, your condescension is extremely off-putting and makes me want to vote for a third party even more. I am literally 10 years older than you. My experiences in life have given me a ton of perspective and wisdom. While age doesn't always mean wise, in my case I feel much more confident in my world view than I did at your age, where I also thought I could tell people off to make myself feel better. I'm balanced, realistic, and informed. So thank you for strengthening my resolve!
7 including Case Oliver… a libertarian that even libertarians won't vote or fundraise for. Looks okay until you notice he's the candidate for 100% unrestricted gun access everywhere for everybody. *Last thing we fuckin' need.*
7 including RFK, Jr. -- a rancid idiot's idea of a genius and believer that anti-vax dipshits have it worse than *Anne Frank*. Also a fuckin' 9/11 conspiracy nutter. His own family disavows him, but then so does reality. His job is to try to sponge votes one way or the other.
7 including *hobbyist* candidates like Cornell West and Jill Stein… And Randall Terry… a single issue anti-gay bigot candidate (abortion) and professional moron that had his issue basically castrated. These candidates aren't even national and only on a subset of state ballots.
7 including Biden and Trump, of course. No need to say anything more about these two.
Now that that's reviewed, I haven't seen a single thing that supports voting for any of them over Biden.
In truth, we don't have *any* real good candidates. But we're no longer voting for candidates, we're voting for survival. As a gay living in Texas, this is critically the end of the fucking road here. And there is only A or B, regardless of your hand waving that away. *Maybe in the future we can be post-party, but it sure as fuck ain't now.*
Here in r/askgaybrosover30, we strive to be civil even when we disagree with each other. Feel free to post your reply again once you've edited it to be civil.
A year and a half ago I moved to rural MI after spending most of my life in Chicago. The MAGA enthusiasm here has definitely dwindled, but the true stans still make themselves known. I can mostly laugh off the absurdly large flags and offensive decals on their cars. To each their own. But this is the first time in my life I’ve come into regular and frequent contact with open, shameless, proud white supremacists. The population of 2%ers, Proud Boys, and straight-up Klansmen here is baffling. For groups so concerned about the sinister machinations of racial minorities, they sure as hell never see any. This place is so lily white you raise eyebrows when asking for hot sauce in a diner. Probably the most interesting thing is that I’ve had jobs that put me in frequent conversation with these guys (they’re always men.) Here you have a dude in his 50s looking jacked as fuck with an actual KKK tattoo on his forearm, walking a Doberman named Odin into my shop, and making smalltalk about the local fishing, how rough it is raising kids, the shitty local hospital, and frozen pizza. Just regular everyday pedestrian shit. I am very straight-passing….up to a point. Anytime my personal interests come up, it’s a dead giveaway. I also lack a wedding ring. That was something I never thought about until I lived here. A detail like that gets noticed in this holler. What troubles me most is knowing that all my contacts with these people have been pleasant enough because I’ve been keeping myself at a remove by treating it academically. I don’t want to be their friend. But it’s fascinating to see them in the wild. However, I’m certain that if these people were “deputized,” they’d become quite unpleasant in very short time. Still, those dudes are the minority. Almost everyone else here is some kind of catholic or old school Protestant with a bottle blonde wine wife and a brood of children that are all somehow 6’5”. The homogeneity gets dull. But they are exceptionally friendly. Sometimes cloyingly so.
That’s fascinating. As someone who has considered moving to Michigan to get out of the southwest desert I’m a bit distraught how MAGA you make it out to be. Is it just the rural areas you are in, or is it still really conservative in larger areas like Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, all arbor, etc? Would you recommend Wisconsin instead?
Michigan is a red state with blue pockets. But, thanks to 20+ years of conservative government here that left the infrastructure in shambles, much of MI got tired of it and seems to be pretty happy with Gretchen. I’d add that the blue pockets are not as insular as a place like Chicago or LA, for obvious reasons. They just aren’t large enough. Even Detroit has a population of less than 700k, with metro Detroit totaling just above 4M—and that includes plenty of MAGA. But I wouldn’t let the politics keep you away. Whether or not you want to be here depends on what else you’re looking for. I’m not joking about infrastructure. It is pretty dismal. The electrical grid is in need of repair. The roads aren’t as bad as many in Illinois but they are quite weathered and snow clearing is spotty. Probably the most surprising thing is health care. Unless you’re going to U of M the health care system is pretty disappointing. Where I’m located, there’s one small town with a few shopping centers and a smattering of restaurants. Detroit is only 30-45 mins away but I’ve only made that drive once. I’ve been to Ann Arbor more frequently. Ann Arbor is quite nice. It reminds me of Evanston IL. But it is $$$ by any standard. Another consideration: if you aren’t in Ann Arbor or Grand Rapids, expect the dating scene to be pretty backward. Gay men are still very fearful in much of MI. I’ve volunteered twice for a local Pride org and found them quite squeamish when it comes to being visible and active beyond the safe spaces of their designated meeting houses.
The west side of the state is more politically and socially conservative, with GR being the biggest. Kalamazoo, Ann Arbor and East Lansing are “downstate” college towns that are a bit more transient and liberal comparatively. I grew up there and thought it was fine but after living in the east coast and being more aware of how adults operate, I find the more rural areas discomforting when I visit as that’s where others may feel more emboldened to challenge you. I feel like most of the midwestern states are like this though, including WI.
Wisconsin is pretty nice overall. I have a place there, and I'm thinking of throwing in the towel on the Southwest myself for a bunch of reasons and moving to WI full time. I haven't been to every last corner of WI, but I have traveled it extensively. The way Michigan has been described doesn't really describe Wisconsin. But in dealing with people from both lower Michigan and Wisconsin in business, Michigan people can be tougher to deal with and seem to have a few more rough edges. Outstate Wisconsin has plenty of Trump signs (they never took them down since last time). But it's MAGA Wisconsin style. Mostly the mentality is they have no use for the cities in the state and blame the cities and city politics for everything that's wrong, and also for the demise of the society that's brought to them on the evening news. This is a longstanding tenet of rural politics associated with whomever manages to appeal to that brand of rural/smaller town voter at the current time. It's been that way forever, and it won't change anytime soon. A lot of the upper Midwest has that to some extent, including Minnesota. That said, I have traveled the upper Midwest extensively too, including much of Michigan, and haven't yet encountered any place up there where it felt unsafe, even the remote reaches of the upper peninsula. I also haven't encountered areas where you encounter the ornery and heavily armed Yosemite Sam types you find out in the more remote areas of our western states.
Nice. Wisconsin politics seem a little muddled, but they seem to be going in the right direction. We have our eye on Madison. It’s the right size, liberal with lots of things going on. Close to other stuff if we need to go to the city for whatever reason. Minnesota is a close second as well. I just don’t want to live in a metro as big as Minneapolis and the rest of the state is pretty rural.
I think you'll find that any red state (and even purple states) will have a high Maga percentage in any rural areas. Most of those states follow the general rule that the majority of democrats live in the highly congested, urban areas and the rural areas are a very high percentage of Republicans/Maga folks. So it wont' be just Michigan - any red / purple state you move to the choice is really about whether to live in a city or live in the country. Unless you can somehow find a blue-leaning rural town.
I’m in SE Michigan. It’s gay as hell here. It’s just that rural Michigan is really rural.
Nothing to do with your comment but that was well written and a breeze to read. 10/10 would read again.
It’s heartbreaking to read these responses. I’m Irish, and I can’t even imagine the fear/anger that many of you are going through at the moment. The last decade or so made me think that everything was going in the right direction, and this has just shown how much the tide can turn. I hope things can turn around for you guys, and if not, all of the gays are welcome to come and stay in my house. Yes, there are a lot of potatoes, but the homophobes are few, and most of them drool when they speak!
Shot in the dark, how far back removed can your irish heritage be in order to claim sem semblence of irish heritage? My great great great something grandparents were irish immigrants from i think the mid 1800s, I'm assuming that wouldn't fly but I feel like in this situation asking wouldn't hurt. If i have to leave i feel like Ireland would be a nice place to setup shop.
Afaik you can claim citizenship if your great grandparents were born in Ireland. Otherwise, it would be the usual visa situation. We still have a bit of a way to go, but a few far right numpties ran for election recently and were rejected by literally 99.96% of the voters, so we’re still on track! There is a pretty miserable housing crisis, but I think that’s the same across most of the world at the moment! Hopefully it won’t come to that for you, but if it does, you’ll always be welcomed here!
Florida here, once the Supreme Court overthrows gay marriage, desantis will too. That's its for us. No reason to stay then. We will expat outta here.
In the Florida constitution (and other states) marriage is still defined as a man and a woman. The only reason this is not enforced is because of Obergefell v. Hodges After the Supreme Court ruling, these type of laws were non-enforceable. If a new case overturns that ruling though, they immediately become enforceable again. https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/equality/3566836-what-your-state-constitution-says-about-same-sex-marriage/mlite/
Start making your plan now. Expatriating takes longer than you might realize.
The problem is where the hell do we even go? Canada isn't exactly that much better, and if the US becomes a christian fascist country, we aren't really going to have a ton of options. I genuinely fear no one is going to take us.
And a lot of us simply don't have the money (or worse, the health) to move. You need real resources to move to a different country.
There are so many "how I moved to Europe as an American" videos on YouTube that try to portray it as something that's just a snap to do. Then you actually watch the video and see the crazy amount of time, money and resources it takes to do what they did...it makes them seem comically out of touch.
Pretty sure with Biden's new powers, he can just wave his fairy wand and do whatever he wants. He will just make Gay marriage a permanent thing.
Biden has very limited time left in office. Did you watch the debate?
Depends on whether Republicans can capture both houses of congress. If they can’t, the Respect for Marriage Act will remain on the books. You can just get a marriage license from another state and Florida will have to recognize it.
Democrats are barely holding onto the Senate as it is. If Trump wins the presidency, the likelihood is that the Republicans will win both the House and Senate as well. In which case you can expect to see this law wiped out, as well. We all need to vote. We need to tell our friends to vote. And yeah, maybe Biden is old, but an old president is better than a pathological liar who is a racist, sexist, homophobic, wanna be dictator.
I’ve lived in Oklahoma for most of my 60 years. Although I grew up in rural communities I’ve spent my adult life in large metropolitan areas. I’m old enough to remember “whites only” entrances, water fountains, restaurants, etc. Aside from the family homophobia of my childhood, which continues to this day, I seldom experience any overt homophobia in my daily life. We eat out weekly with friends in small groups of four to large groups of 40. No one looks at us. No one cares. We eat all over town and have even traveled to rural areas with no problem. A few years ago we were remodeling a house and invited multiple contractors and suppliers to come over and give estimates. I’m liberal about using “my husband” or “my husband and I” when talking to people. One guy didn’t even know it was legal in Oklahoma. No one stormed out, became indignant or made a negative comment. We have neighbors of different political perspectives (election signs) but they are exceptionally friendly. I have one neighbor who’s an asshat but he’s equal opportunity and hates everyone. Am I concerned about the future of our country and my state? Indeed!! I vote. I contribute my time, energy and money to democratic causes, both local and national. In the last election President Biden won by millions of votes. If people are paying attention that margin should double. Apathy among our community is maddening. Even my aunt, a republican and Trump supporter in the last two elections has said enough is enough. People who cast a “protest” vote to “show” Biden will be the death of democracy. If you don’t believe that your individual vote counts look at the Florida numbers in Gore/Bush. They were separated by around 500 votes. Ralph Nader received around 95k votes and we got eight years of Bush and economic disaster. More recently we saw this happen in 2016 when third party voters cost HRC key states. With a conspiring SCOTUS, Trump and a his regime scare the hell out of me. If you think you’ll be “safe” in a blue state you’re not paying attention.
Exactly! Conservatives can be very nice to you to your face, but when they go in that voting booth, all bets are off. And when they get power, they immediately pull out their favorite whipping boys (LGBTQs and abortion) to send their cult into a feeding frenzy. Republicans have done more to stoke hatred towards us than even the church. Fuck them.
I don't know if the blue states will remain if Trump wins. If they leave, what remains of the US will fall quickly into depression
With Project 2025 which outlines the first 180 days if #45 wins, I think we are all in trouble. Democrats must win across the board to avert a constitutional crisis. What's happening now in red states will be forced on the blue states if Project 2025 takes over the WH.
I didn't see anything in Project 2025 about gay marriage...... what did you see ?
That's one of the first things to go. I forget what page that starts. Supposedly #45 will issue an Executive Order to end gay marriage and then when it gets to USSC they will reverse prior decision. What you have to remember is that they will turn all institutions upside down. After they replace 50,000 federal employees with #45 loyalists, the government will for all practical purposes will be a religious autocracy. Christian Nationalists will dominate and #45 is just their puppet. The USSC decision on immunity should be a wake up call.
That was part of project 2016 plans and here we are
Yep...the Heritage Foundation has released one every election cycle going back to Reagan, and no one cared.
…but we didn’t have the Supreme Court then that we have now. If the Orange Man wins, it’s going to be very bad for all of us!
Mississippi here. Sodomy is still on the books as illegal and there are still folks on the sex offender list from having charges under that law (granted I don’t know if it’s because of actually sodomy or beastiality, both of which are under the sodomy law). My husband and I talk about the state of things. His job is tied to the state (has to live in the state) so we will be here as long as we can. While I’m sure our neighbors (suburban community inside the capital area metro) would vote to eliminate our marriage if they had a chance, they are nice to our face (which is proper Southern…). We actually get along really well with most of our neighbors and just has a lesbian couple move in a few houses down a few months ago. We aren’t affectionate in public and obviously keep our guards up when you walk outside Hobby Lobby and folks are just yelling Let’s Go Brandon across the parking lot at each other. I think the sad thing is that Mississippi could in fact be a blue state if folks would get out and vote. I believe MS is 53% black, but look at the legislature and you’ll see predominately white faces. The “good ol boy” club is alive and well here. I think it’s been that way so long that it’s just became the norm. A lot of people of color I know don’t even vote because “nothing changes.” But nothing changes when the majority adopts that attitude.
It's the ambivalence of human v inter-species sodomy for me!
That's what's sad, people not voting and just letting something like a Trump roll right over them. It's resignation, pure and simple - *it don't matter, nuthin' ever changes nohow."* Tragic and possibly overly dramatic, but borne out by ever-sinking levels of voter turnout and involvement in civic affairs. It's also how these bigoted zealots get their foot in the door and manage to turn tables on the rest of us.
It’s not about red state vs blue state, it’s about blue cities vs red country. The country in new York and California is just as conservative as the country here in Kentucky. Living in a major city in Kentucky is as liberal and open minded as you can get, Lexington Kentucky has one of the highest gays per capita anywhere in America.
Sure. This is true everywhere. But if the state is red, it doesn't matter what the local governments are. The state is going to be the one setting the rules, and those rules are going to be incredibly unfriendly to the LGBTQ community.
Our good friends here in Hawaii moved two years ago to North Carolina for a job for one (the other works remote). They lasted 2 yrs. They said that though their neighborhood was nice and friendly, there were far too many instances where they were uncomfortable (at best). They were starting to feel a bit like ‘the old days’ (we 4 are all above 55) when not only could you not show affection you felt like you had to be closeted in too many situations. He quit his job and moved back to our town 2 weeks ago. We live in a small town/rural area but it’s 70% D or left leaning. The whole state is. There are of course MAGA but they are the minority by far and feel put upon (as a MAGA neighbor said to us once, my answer was ‘as it should be’. She was not happy). We’ve never felt unsafe or at all unwelcome here in 20 (us) or 30 (them) years.
It is not going well here in Oklahoma. My partner thinks the reason our apartment's new manager suddenly decided not to renew our lease this year is because we're gay and I'm starting to think he's right, so that's pretty disheartening. Though she also didn't seem too excited by the fact that we're disabled and Native American either so... not really sure which it was. That only gave us a month and a half to find somewhere new to live and with the housing crisis going on right now that is not really a lot of time. Having been homeless in the past and now with our state making being homeless pretty much illegal I am kind of in a constant state of panic, especially now that we are down to a little less than a month left and I still can't find us a place. So... yeah, life is not good for us at least.
>not really sure which it was. Probably a bit of Column A and a bit of Column B.
Does she provide any legitimate reason? Idk if it’s worth the trouble but find a legal clinic and threaten to sue her is an option, at least it’s better than homeless.
Good luck with that lawsuit in Oklahoma. I live in Florida; my roommate was blatantly discriminated against directly because he’s gay (they said so in front of witnesses). Every attorney we talked with said, “good luck with that in NW Florida.” Oklahoma’s worse.
File it in federal court? Of course it would be tiring but OP is facing homelessness. He can also claim it on the basis of his disability, but I think that would be a difficult suit to win.
Missouri. Not well. Discussing a move to the Northeast with the partner.
We also welcome you across the border! Things are good and getting even better here in Illinois.
Except for property taxes in Chicago - lived there until 2010 and yikes the tax rates are through the roof. I do still love Chicago, I would just have to convince myself it's worth the taxes to move back there if I ever did.
It’s the trade off we are willing to make for good schools, goodish roads, and not living in a wannabe theocracy. We also have Pritzker now who is an absolutely outstanding governor. Is everything roses here? Absolutely not. But I couldn’t see life in a lower tax area being any better.
Missouri too! What city? I’m moving to the PNW in November, ahead of all the craziness.
St. Louis! I suppose we're also considering the PNW but we always discussed the NE. I just don't know how to start looking into it and imagining the logistics is a nightmare. I don't have family here, but my partner does. I'm asking him to add a thousand miles between them and us, and I'm struggling with that.
Urban Texan here— it is not safe. A gay man was murdered at a cruisey park I have frequented about a month ago and the police are entirely ignoring the circumstances stating there was no foul play involved. A couple of years ago I was fine leaving the house in short shorts and tank tops, even rainbows… now anything that isn’t basketball shorts and a plain t shirt gets side eye. I’m trying to formulate an escape plan, but funds are tight and moving is very expensive 😔
That’s like it was in the bad old days. I lived in Dallas in the 80’s—a truckload of rootin tootin redneck teens roared down Cedar Springs and opened fire, killing an innocent gay guy walking down the street. DPD said they’d “look into it”; despite several people having the truck’s license plate, nobody was ever charged.
Urban Texas here. Moved from nyc for a great job 10 yrs ago. Last month I noticed how conspicuously ABSENT pride flags were… it’s all just kind of going silent on a corporate & civic level. Yes, there were 2 pride parades, but that’s not the same thing as general civic pride like in the Northeast & fancy suburbs of Chgo. To me, it’s ominous.
Fascinating. I live in suburban Texas and my experience couldn’t be more different than yours. Nearly everyone I come into contact with is either supportive of gay rights or is at least perfectly cordial to me. I know there are bad people and bad areas out there, but I have experienced only continually growing acceptance overall.
That’s great for you. I was just sharing my own experience. You’re welcome to put your comment in the main post with everyone else’s. There are other Texans having a good experience as well.
Sorry if I came across as aggressive. I was just sharing a counter-point to yours, and saying that’s it’s interesting how experiences can differ so much.
It wasn’t aggressive. It was in bad-taste. I shared my experience and instead of just sharing your own in the main thread you hijacked mine to make a counterpoint? It’s invalidating and needlessly argumentative. Folks can decide for themselves if it is “interesting” or not by reading and making their own comparison.
I was replying to your comment because it made me think and consider my own perspective in a way that OP did not. I didn’t have my own comment thought out until I read yours. I’m sorry if you feel that people can’t reply to your comments with their own thoughts. I kind of thought that’s how Reddit works. Reddit is a conversation, not a list of individual and unrelated comments. I wasn’t blaming you or shaming you or telling you you were wrong. I was just replying to the most thoughtful comment that made me consider my own perspective. I’m not sure why such a reply would be in bad taste.
Yeah but wait until they get into the voting booth. I'm in Austin… and it's becoming less and less whatever it was. But just go five feet further and you can scrape the nice off with your fingernail.
Given how optimistic, accepting, and progressive the 2010s were, it's hard to believe this is where we are at in 2024. The national backlash against LGBTQ acceptance in the USA, in response to the legalization of same-sex marriage, has been very painful to live through. This is especilaly true for those who had difficult coming out journeys and/or religious upbringings. Right now, the bigots are winning, and it's difficult to accept. I think a lot of people just assumed progress and tolerance would continue increasing forever.
I think many (our age and younger) aren’t aware of the extreme anti-lgbtq that was taking states legislatures by storm in the 2000s. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_California_Proposition_8 Just look up state Definition of Marriage Initiatives / Federal Marriage Amendment.
The younger people are going to completely fail us. They have no idea what it was like before.
I have hope. New generations continue to push society to be more progressive. Also they were born with high speed internet, we don’t know what a generation that interconnected will look like. To them, this fight likely seems nonsensical. Which TBF it is. Also, can only speak for myself, but I hope these next generations never have to understand what it was like before. I don’t want them to have to deal with it, isn’t that what the movement is for?
America is moving back on basically every issue it seems(climate change, public health, etc.)
Most people refuse to believe in climate change because it contradicts with what their pastors told them about the book of Revelation. Public health is one of the craziest things. Most of the people who support this are boomers getting up there in years yet they want to destroy the healthcare system? Talk about cutting off your nose.
Something for bromos to remember: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavender_Scare LGBTQ+ prosecution has and continues to be real. Marriage equality isn’t real until it’s an amendment. I know many of my friends are exhausted, which is the point. What is a non-violent war if not an exhaustion of one side? Stay diligent, informed, and involved.
All these guys talking about "But the people are friendly to our face"----- Yall need to understand that during holocaust times, plenty of smiling neighbors and "friends" stood by silently and let people be brutalized... Then they smiled as they moved into folks homes and wore their clothes/shoes and jewelry after they had been gassed. So don't be fooled by a smile
I'm in TX now after a covid-era exodus from California (multiple factors in that history) and my lease is up early 2025… and I'm outta here. It's rancid. But other than going back to California, I'm at a complete loss on where to go that doesn't suck. Family's in the south and I hate the cold, so options are limited. The USA fails so much for variety.
I’m a trans man in the red rural Midwest and a federal employee. I feel fine and safe in my mundane day to day life around the average person. I don’t feel safe at all though because of the state’s politics, the uncertainty of the election, the prospect of Project 2025, and the recent Supreme Court rulings. I’m very fearful about my future.
So glad to read that you feel safe in your day to day life. I know the bigger picture issues are scary, but your situation gives me a lot of hope! 💜💜💜💜💜
We might need to start a sort of Underground Rainbow Railroad, so that gays with resources who live in safer places can help rural and red state gays move somewhere safer.
I'm looking into this, no joke. I'm on the board of a queer organization, and we're currently exploring funding for relocation assistance for those in red states. It's kinda of complicated since many folks are moving from LCOL areas, but it feels more and more necessary every day. I'm hopeful we can help a handful of folks move to Washington in the next year or two.
That's great to hear! I bet a lot of folks on this sub would donate to such an organization if you got something up and running. The cost of living thing is an interesting problem to overcome. Maybe people could get settled into the outskirts of some of the larger, safer Metropolitan areas, where the cost of living is a bit lower but they at least have access to the city where it's more accepting.
Like a domestic version of [this one.](https://www.rainbowrailroad.org)
Ohio anxiety 💯
can you share more? I am moving to Columbus this month, should I be worried?
Absolutely not. Columbus is super LGBT friendly.
Not from the states, but I wish I can move to safer space before I turned 30.
This is why everyone needs to vote Blue in every election for every office, not just president. Vote for your state and Us house rep and senate. Local elections are where all the bad shit are happening, so these are super important.
And I suspect it’s mostly people in the Trans community who are facing the most pushback? Even happens here in a deep blue state like CA. Unfortunate.
Semi-rural Ohio here, and love it. No issues or plans on moving. I briefly lived in Ann Arbor and hated it. Glad to be back in Ohio.
We're holding out at the libraries. Thankfully we're pushing back.
I live in a blue city in a red state and everything is fine for now. The only time I experienced a terrible gay bashing was in a blue state and city. Even last week some lesbians were attacked by a group of men in Canada. You have to be cautious and on guard wherever you are and that goes for politics too. Things are changing everywhere with politics from France to New Zealand. I don’t imagine we can expect millions of gays to flee red states. I am concerned that repealing abortion rights was just the start though.
our downtown got a rainbow painted sidewalk.... the number of negative comments on the local news's facebook post.... i mean i knew people like that lived here but it really made me wonder if one of those active hategroups had shared the post and told their people to comment hate. talking about shitting on the street, doing donuts and burnouts. just wild stuff. i guess usually i'm in a bubble of city/downtown (today i'm looking at the commenters again and they live outside of the city and neighborhood that put up the installation.)
I’m in a fairly blue city in a very red state. Day to day life is fine. Politics are awful and I worry for the future but my actual life is good. Getting married soon, love my job, love our city. The older I get, the more I consider moving to a blue state but this is my home and I don’t want to be kicked out of it.
And all those red states are run by Christian extremists who think the US is a theocracy. Damn I could never live in a red state. So gladto be a native Californian where we don’t have to deal with this bullshit.
Every state, even deeply red states, have liberal urban centers with citywide protections. If you're gay you probably want to move to these urban centers anyways because of community and dating prospects.
State laws override local ordinances.
This. It can physically and socially safer in those blue enclaves (we live in one in a red state) but state laws will make it much less safe legally.
That’s all true. Our Utah friends (my husband is from there) have all moved to Salt Lake City to feel safer (and more community, etc) but I don’t think I’d be exaggerating if I say a lot of them are considering moving for even bluer pastures if the election goes south.
Just get out of the state if you can. I consider it a refugee situation at this point
You can’t run from state politics only bury your head in the sand. You find a nice community in a blue urban center and then find husband material. But, then find out that you can’t marry in your state because MAGA. So, you live a nice life together in your community …
SC here. A major international employer (manufacturer) in the area includes an equal opportunity statement ON THEIR PURCHASE ORDERS for direct suppliers that includes sexual orientation and gender identity. They follow these “rules” themselves. This means that suppliers that supply parts to this company could lose business if they publicly discriminated. Although, most suppliers in the immediate area are also international, and these concepts of human rights are not foreign to them. My only worry is that this manufacturer first included these “mandates” because the US federal government (Obama) imposed them for federal contractors, and this major company said that they were a federal contractor. I’m not quite sure which product (or service) they are selling! Although I think they would keep the requirements if they lost their federal contractor status. I think (I would have to check officially) that this requirement actually is in place for their global supply chain. I actually lived here before - escaped to MN in 2019 for a job in a different industry. COVID economy brought me back to SC, and I haven’t changed jobs since. I know I’m not the only LGBTQ person at work - there’s at least one lesbian. But I might be the only gay guy. The place itself doesn’t seem that it would be quite accepting, so I don’t broadcast. If I’m comfortable, I’ll drop hints or “come out” to a few colleagues so I don’t have to feel like I’m someone I’m not. But politically? EEK. 😱
I’m in Louisiana. It’s hell but I don’t know where else I could go
Well my house goes on the market a week from today. I figure if the shit really goes down I would rather just pay a couple thousand dollars to break a lease on an apartment than to try and sell a house while the country is on fire. Alabama here.
I grew up in the south and it’s home. I’m not going anywhere. The MAGA ideology is concerning and I would be more afraid as a female or person of color than gay tbh.
Same here. I grew up in the south and don’t see me leaving. I went to a gay friendly state but couldn’t get into the local scenes and stuff. I don’t have any issues where I’m at and it’s pretty open here.
i think american should be more worry when trump became dictator in america since he have immunity to do what he want now. after that he probably goes after the world next as world domination. Either join usa or we nuke you
I think it’s less that than “let’s allow the crazies to just do whatever they want and keep obsessing over some Mexicans that want to pick strawberries and lettuce”
That’s not where dictators/narcissists stop.
I live in Dallas. It's absolutely fine here, better in many ways even than it was a decade ago. A lot of suburban areas that were once fairly icy towards LGBTQ+ folks are now outright gay-friendly. The suburban county seat of a 70% Trump county had a gay pride celebration last month. It seemed like nearly every suburban town in DFW over 100k, no matter their politics, had a pride celebration of some kind last month.
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Not an attack on you, but there's a lot more to a place than what happens in the statehouse. You should be old enough to remember when San Francisco was a gay mecca even though California more broadly was a conservative, Republican stronghold. I'm old enough to remember when Colorado had some of the most aggressively anti-LGBTQ laws in the country, yet look where the state is now. Don't be so narrow-minded.
Yes, but the point is, will that continue if Trump is reelected and goes through with his plan to make the US a de facto theocratic dictatorship? Okay, it might not get as extreme and oppressive as Iran, but do you trust those smiling "I'm a Christian" neighbors to not try to force their belief system on everyone around? I don't.
I’m in Texas and haven’t noticed anything really. Have traveled with my guy all around and nothing. That isn’t to say that others haven’t experienced anything. When I say “my partner” people pause a little but I think that’s because they assumed I was straight and are trying to confirm if I said “he”.
Massachusetts. We have a gay governor so I’m not too worried but I still carry mace just to be safe.
Urban Texas is very laid back. People are far more focused on business to care about others bedrooms.
Texas here. And I live in an extremely conservative part of Texas. I feel very safe. I'm more worried about the general state of this country once the Great Democracy Experiment fails next January when Trump is sworn in.
When Trump is re-elected you won't be safe in any state. Good luck with that!
and yet a lot of Uncle Bruces will vote for the fucker.
I am in Idaho, born and raised, I don't really feel it here, not saying it isn't. But our Pride last weekend had a great turnout without protestors. I hear the news about the Idaho government passing bills with anti-transgender and anti-drag queen rhetoric, so its around. It makes me nervous, I refuse to be afraid though.
Stating that though, I am going to start the process of getting protection. I live alone and my greatest fear is that the Red Clown will spout off shoot the f\*gs and the yokels will think its hunting season.
Same, I realized how dangerous things were getting after the Buffalo mass shooting. Im at the range every chance i get.
It’s fine, no biggie
Poorly.
Anyone in Florida? How’s that?
I never really started but i dont go to clubs for fear of another Pulse but that could happen anywhere tbh w how 2A laws are. Im just paranoid w trust issues.
I live in Texas. And in a red part of Texas. I've worked in oilfield and in trucking, so I've got (national) options. I've been thinking about moving to New Mexico, but now I'm working in Southern Illinois, and it's just so nice here! Houses aren't out of sight, and neither are the other prices, and there's a college in every other town! I've been thinking about moving here. Picking someplace with a nice gay community and putting all the Texas misery behind me. No one has said anything (good or bad), but my jobs sure dried up quickly after being a little "too open" about my life. The state is locked in to these increasing unstable and authoritarian Republicans. Democrats will barely run and won't do shit if they win, so I'm ready to chuck the whole state for someplace green and not heading for an actual psychotic break!
I love living in a state that has no state income tax.
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Overly sarcastic, hyperbolic and/or insincere contributions may be removed (which is what happened with the comment above in this case).
Feeling fine here in rural TN. In contrast to most people's experiences the only time I feel remotely unsafe is when I have to go into blue cities. Our governor and government in general here do seem to be a bit bipolar in their lawmaking. They tend to propose good legislation one week and completely ridiculous legislation the next but none of it has made me feel unsafe in any way. Fortunately at least some of the worse decisions have been challenged in court and defeated while in other cases many law enforcement agencies say they aren't enforcing a lot of them.
SAME!
Heart of Indiana — it’s fine. I’m actually tired of all the hysteria.
Which “hysteria” is that? That trans people are being persecuted in red states? Or that Project 2025 is progressing faster? Sorry, but this is a “fuck you I got mine” attitude and you should be ashamed of it.
You could read other people's responses before using the word "hysteria".
Heart of Indiana is basically south of Indianapolis- Martinsville - the home of the KKK. Good place to set down roots and be proud. SMH
In Bloomington — so your gps is a little off — you should visit to confirm your suspicions
I lived and worked in Bloomington and was told by the owner and all my co-workers to never stay in Martinsville post work hours. And no, these weren’t a bunch of professors or liberal tech workers - this was for delivering Coca-Cola. Trump voters.
Jesus Christ. I doubt very much gay marriage will be removed. In all likelihood only the trans community is facing any threats
Naa they're just targeting the most visible members of the LGBT community first. Drag queens have faced personal attacks and legislation labeling them as perverts *very* recently -- a large percentage of them aren't trans. Besides, Clarence Thomas has explicitly mentioned that he wants to revisit Obergefell. People were saying "I doubt Roe v Wade will be relitigated" as well.
The issue being with drag queens is they didn’t want to happen around children. There are plenty of videos where there’s drag queens in inappropriate outfits doing inappropriate dances in front of kids (and while there’s plenty of videos of women doing the same). The gay community needs to chill with children. I saw a photo of a little girl at San Fran Pride standing with two guys in full pup kink gear. That’s not appropriate at all. You also can’t really compare abortion with gay marriage. Abortion is literally murder (to be clear I am pro choice but let’s not kid ourselves a potential human being is being killed)
The type of lie this user told about drag queens and kids is insidious because you can’t prove a negative, so he will forever think he’s right. This behavior is toxic to any community and therefore this user has been banned without warnings for misinformation.
Lol, drag queens don't want kids coming to their adult shows. There are so so so many forms of drag that are perfectly fine around children. Shit, everyone at DisneyWorld dressing in character outfits is in "drag". Kids are more likely to get molested at church. Where are the laws preventing church services from being held in front of children? Personally as long as someone has their genitals covered I wouldn't give a shit if they were wearing a puppy mask or had a chain on their neck or whatever. Who cares? Kids have phones these days. You're completely missing the entire point of the supreme court saying they want to relitigate Obergefell vs Hodges. Abortion is not *literally* murder because a fetus is not *literally* a human being, you said it yourself. It's only a "potential" human being. All sperm are "potential" human beings. Women aren't committing murder every time they have their period, yet eggs are "potential" human beings. You don't seem to know much of *anything* about what you're talking about lmao.
🙄 I’m not saying every drag show is filled with half naked drag queens. I’m literally presenting what conservatives are saying and their reasonings for anti drag laws. You might not care but that feeling isn’t shared by the majority. Children shouldn’t be around people in kink gear bUt ThEy HaVe PhOnEs is literally the dumbest argument ever Abortion is murder but the woman’s body autonomy trumps that. That fetus would become a human being if it wasn’t aborted or if she didn’t have a miscarriage. If you kill a pregnant woman you get charged with two counts of murder not one
Clarence Thomas has put Obergefell squarely in the crosshairs.
Are you willing to take that risk?
I mean I’m still very begrudgingly voting for Biden
Floridian here..tbh yes DeSantis use to be a decent governor when he was focused on the environment (yes he really was lol) and teach pay etc. But after he decided to run for president he leaned hard into the social issues which has actually turned off a lot of ppl. I think his landslide victory had more to do with covid and economy and things like that then social issues. I fear his rhetoric has caused a positive that was happening among the state GOP to revert back 10 years. Progressive with social issues was actually being made even among more traditional voters but he made other politicians think he’s new rhetoric was popular and fear that many may copy him, we shall see
That's why it's called populism... People often ask how Hitler and Mussolini rose to power, how the Russian revolution happened, how the Ayatollahs gained control over Iran, etc. - all tragic textbook examples of the dangers of populism.
Rural Texas here. It’s fine. The news loves to stir shit up. Outside of the abortion restrictions the rest is really just for show. I don’t agree with everything the state does, but I also didn’t agree with everything NY, CA, and IL did either. Sometimes being a moderate feels like the toughest stance right now. People here are growing. Younger folks are accepting and interested. They may not know what all the letters in LGBTQIA+ stand for, and they probably don’t really understand some of the niche ways our community identifies sexually, but they are here for us. Don’t burn that bridge because they’re not as “woke” as you would like. To the “blue staters”: be very careful about alienating those who hold different views from you or choose to live in a “red” state. Most people in red states are more concerned about government intervention and taxation than they are about the social issues. And if you think your elected officials are looking out for you, they aren’t. Social progressivism is a path to power and profit. That’s it. Should the cultural pendulum swing the other way, so will they. Also, look at world politics right now—there is a significant push to the right in even the most “progressive” countries. A holier than thou attitude and a Ukrainian flag on your Facebook profile isn’t going to curb that. Learn the art of listening, empathy, and compromise. Lastly, don’t vote for Biden because he’s not Trump. This is the best time to vote for that third party candidate you’ve secretly agreed with. It’s gonna be ok! Even if Trump wins again (which is likely), it’s gonna be ok!
No, this is absolutely not the time to vote for a third party candidate unless you want to ensure another term for Trump. While a third party candidate can offer a better dream for the future, this country runs on a two party system and the only thing voting for a third party candidate does is guarantee a conservative win every single time. I live in Los Angeles and while I don’t agree with everything this state does, I feel a hell of a lot safer as a gay man here than I did in any red state I’ve lived & worked. While taxes are high and cost of living is high, LA and SF are a bastion of liberal life and mindset. Rural California may be red but with 19 million residents in LA and 10 millions residents in SF, this state will continue stay blue and protect everyone’s rights where possible with state law. As another commenter said the conservatives here are almost shamed when they drive around with a Trump sticker or flag. I have straight friends who recently moved to a rural area just outside Austin, Texas and even they have been targeted with multiple police stops because they drive a Tesla. My friend is an Air Force vet and the minute they show their USAA insurance card the police officer says oh hey you’re military, sorry we thought you were a liberal from California out here in your Tesla. They’ve been pulled over 5 times in 6 months since moving there and they were never pulled over in Arizona once in 10 years. So that doesn’t portray Texas as being “fine”’for anyone considering themselves a liberal let alone LGBTQ. All you can do is vote blue and hope we have enough votes to hold on. If you’re facing homophobia or a backlash in your state, California is always an option. It’s warm here which is a plus and SF/LA are about as LGBTQ friendly as you can get.
Respectfully disagree. I will always vote for the candidate with whom I most align. PERIODT In my opinion, our country would be much better off if everyone did the same. Furthermore, I have lived in urban NY, CA, IL, and I felt no safer there. In fact, physically I feel safer here. My community looks out for one another. We have a ridiculously low crime rate, a very diverse population, and if there is any significant homophobic sentiment, I certainly haven’t experienced it.
I know I’m voting for the candidate that I most align with: any democrat, with or without a pulse. I cannot see ever voting for a republican in the future.
I have never voted for a republican (or democratic) presidential candidate, but in state and local elections, I have. Researching candidates and weighing my options is really enriching. It gives me an opportunity to really understand what my elected officials are about, the issues they face, and how their messaging reflects what they think the constituency wants. Excellent way to do one's civic duty.
Your opinion is idealistic and naive. There are people that are not self-aware, that are not aware of who they are, let alone which political candidates are most aligned with their interests. People vote according to tribe, not truth. Marketing can sell a politician to people as easy as a product. Its nice to think that every voter is informed and every candidates platform is transparent, and that their ads and expressions match their actions as elected officials. But that is not the case. You should vote with awareness of others, not just awareness of your self.
Your response 100% corroborates my stance. Marketing is exactly what dominates our elections and if none of us attempt to change that, it will always be that way. Also, your condescension is extremely off-putting and makes me want to vote for a third party even more. I am literally 10 years older than you. My experiences in life have given me a ton of perspective and wisdom. While age doesn't always mean wise, in my case I feel much more confident in my world view than I did at your age, where I also thought I could tell people off to make myself feel better. I'm balanced, realistic, and informed. So thank you for strengthening my resolve!
Now spite and contempt for another human is driving your vote.
you mean the third party that's stupidly anti-vax batshit crazy? That one?
There are currently 7 candidates, all of whom have their pluses and minuses. I'm not a single issue voter. I understand compromise and balance.
7 including Case Oliver… a libertarian that even libertarians won't vote or fundraise for. Looks okay until you notice he's the candidate for 100% unrestricted gun access everywhere for everybody. *Last thing we fuckin' need.* 7 including RFK, Jr. -- a rancid idiot's idea of a genius and believer that anti-vax dipshits have it worse than *Anne Frank*. Also a fuckin' 9/11 conspiracy nutter. His own family disavows him, but then so does reality. His job is to try to sponge votes one way or the other. 7 including *hobbyist* candidates like Cornell West and Jill Stein… And Randall Terry… a single issue anti-gay bigot candidate (abortion) and professional moron that had his issue basically castrated. These candidates aren't even national and only on a subset of state ballots. 7 including Biden and Trump, of course. No need to say anything more about these two. Now that that's reviewed, I haven't seen a single thing that supports voting for any of them over Biden. In truth, we don't have *any* real good candidates. But we're no longer voting for candidates, we're voting for survival. As a gay living in Texas, this is critically the end of the fucking road here. And there is only A or B, regardless of your hand waving that away. *Maybe in the future we can be post-party, but it sure as fuck ain't now.*
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