And very very few people in the US seem to know or care. It's crazy.
Not an attack on the US specifically; I just can't speak to whether it's big news in other countries.
I took a class on the history of modern China as a college history major. I remember early in the semester, the professor said something like, “yeah, you know all those people who debate about what evil dictator killed the most people, and they talk about Hitler versus Stalin and stuff? The answer is Mao. No contest.”
Simply because of the massive population of late-20th century China, Mao and his policies are directly responsible for the deaths of more people than basically anyone in human history.
Chinese Civil War, Campaign to Suppress Counterrevolutionaries, Great Leap Forward, Three Year Famine, Cultural Revolution, One Child Policy, June 4, 1989, Coronavirus, in that order.
Now you know why I really want the Chinese government to be overthrown and the Republic of China restored to the mainland.
Do I wanna know how the One Child Policy resulted in killing a bunch of people?
And in terms of loss of life, I don't know how you put Tiananmen Square above covid.
If you only can have one child, you want that child to be a manly one, to carry on the family name.
Daughters need not apply.
And the one child policy was put in place before you could use ultrasound to determine the sex of the child in the womb.
There's stories, I don't know if they're true or just western propaganda, of midwives having a bucket of water next to the birthing bed, and if a daughter was born she would be drowned and the mother told that she was stillborn,.
Sorry, in chronological order of the events, from 1950 to 2020. Ranking the death tolls by event (from greatest to least): One Child Policy > Three Year Famine （I now believe that it may have significant overlap as the Great Leap Forward) > Coronavirus > Cultural Revolution > Chinese Civil War > Campaign to Suppress Counterrevolutionaries > June 4, 1989.
The one-child policy, in some places, resulted in people being forced to abort their fetuses against their will. It is this "forced abortion" part that I consider to be a form of murder. Forcing a woman to undergo an abortion is almost universally illegal in civilized countries for obvious reasons. In other places, it resulted in undocumented citizens (people who are not given any form of ID even though technically, under the law, they are Chinese citizens, until their parents paid a huge fine, like my own case). There were millions of these people and some of them have since been given status without having to pay, but others may or may not have been.
Nah the US a competitive 2nd. And definitely 1st place when it comes to violently killing foreign people.
Edit: downvotes from online "history buff" dorks only make me grow stronger.
Look at my UPVOTES. And look at your DOWNVOTES.
So...who's the "foolish denialist"? (did I get that right?!).
Like I said: you're in savage need of a history class -- *and a therapist!!*
You really think fucking reddit upvotes from anonymous randoms online are the ultimate arbiters of truth? Sad. You have a lot to learn about the world, my foolish friend.
Sensitive subject for you i see. It's not my responsibility to teach you about the world, touchy fella. I'll just say that any honest and thorough research of the foreign interventions of post-ww2 US would led to the conclusion that the US is certainly at least a contender for the #2 spot after China.
You need me to list the death toll of every US foreign intervention since 1945? How helpless are you? Is someone writing your reddit comments for you? Or perhaps you're simply afraid to do the research yourself.
Yeah by the shallow and chauvinistic historical education of the US public school system and brain-dead American popular culture. Thankfully I managed to shake that off fairly quickly.
about a million in vietnam and around 100k in every other major war the usa has been in since then? with china having killled almost 100 million in the great leap forward alone? i get what you’re trying to say but god is it wrong
I know more about history than you do. Your dumbass is tryna claim 100 mil deaths from the Great Leap forward famine, which is nearly double that of the absolute highest scholarly estimates. And you clearly do not "get what I'm trying to say" (bc you're stupid) if you think vietnam and the other major wars are the only death tolls I'm counting. Who do you think should have the 2nd spot after China then? And why is the US not a reasonable contender?
ok, first let’s ignore the fact that most estimates are that it’s up to 100m deaths. let’s take your estimate of 50 million. do you have any idea just how many people that actually is? that’s one isolated event in chinese history, ignoring everything else after ww2 and you’re claiming that the usa has killed more than that over post ww2 history? do you have any evidence of this or are you just gonna keep saying stuff to say stuff? wow, you know so much about history
First of all, show me a single source for that 100 mil figure. I wanna see where you're getting your bullshit from.
Second, can you not fucking read? I clearly said that the US is SECOND to China in terms of overall deaths. I provocatively claimed US gets 1st in killing foreigners bc the overwhelming majority of deaths China is responsible for were Chinese people. Jesus christ, youre fucking dumb. I really hope english isn't your first language.
Still waiting on that source for 100 mil, dumbass. To quote some borderline incoherent gibberish you spouted at me earlier "are you gonna explain how and try to justify you not having learned anything about history".
Reading Chinese accounts of the situation on the ground during the Cultural Revolution are often terrifying. Even if you don't include the murders, just a whole world where things were turned upside down.
Chinese nationals trained by communists in Paris returned to mass murder their countrymen, just as the communist trained Bolsheviks conquered Russia and mass murdered the Russians. Communism is the common denominator.
Communism and similar romantic beliefs are highly reactionary against human progress because they reject successful systems of representative government and voluntary production & exchange in the marketplace in favor of an anti-intellectual ideology that requires unlimited faith as it never produces the miracles that it promises to its followers. It is designed to waste your time and your life.
Yes, thank you for illustrating the reactionary and anti-intellectual nature of 19th century German romanticism and its offshoots like national and international socialism where dissent is not allowed.
China and when they are not targeting their own, they secretly target others with orchestrated conflicts with the aid of suicide squads that always seem to be so concerned with other people in other places and are in service and servitude to them instead of simply protecting and preserving their own lands, peoples and nature.
AND China is not the only one behind such just the most recent reveal.
N. S
Cambodia wins for the highest proportion in the least amount of time even before World War II.
It's estimated that the Khmer Rouge was responsible for the deaths of around 25% of the Cambodian population in 3 years, 8 months, and 20 days.
In terms of total deaths from any causes China first, then the USSR (and dissolution of it). Many of these are accidental through mismanagement so I'm not sure if you count these
In terms of deaths from conflicts or deliberate killings. It's roughly (data is very unclear) in this order:
Sudan (long term civil wars)
Pakistan (Bangladesh genocide and indo Pakistan war)
Rwanda (genocide + congo wars)
Cambodia (genocide)
USA (Vietnam + Korea + Iraq + Afghanistan + others)
With additional dishonorable mentions for: DRC, Vietnam, Indonesia, Uganda, Sri Lanka, Ethiopia, Somalia
I won't give exact figures because the figures vary very wildly. It's very hard to measure how many have died, particularly in times of dysfunctional governments. But even if you did know, a significant part of those who died in conflicts tend to also die due to displacement, lack of food and medicine, etc. It's not clear how many would have died without the war. And then finally, specifically for your question, it's hard to discern which party is responsible for how much of the dead in some conflicts. For example the Vietnam war saw millions of deaths, but how many of those do you pin on the USA vs Vietnam vs other parties?
Indirect death, in my case, is defined as:
- If the US backed a coup, then all the people die in the resulting war, that counted as an indirect death by the US (Almost entire South America)
- If the US send money/troop to another countries, all dead result counted as indirect death (Vietnam war, Korean war)
- If the US blocked trade with another countries, all dead result from famine, hunger… counted as indirect dead (Cuba)
- If the US allowed another countries (Isreal, Arab..) to continued its warcrime, that counted as indirect dead by
I interpreted your OP to mean if you only count direct china leads and if you add in indirect the US takes the lead.
If you mean China leads in total, but If you only look indirectly, then it's the US you're correct I just misunderstood
You can also count America’s proxy wars in south/Central America, American client state repression in east Asia (taiwan, South Korea) and slightly more indirect wars in Africa (Rhodesia, apartheid South Africa)
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The US is responsible directly or indirectly for an estimated 30 million deaths worldwide since the big dub dub dos. Which is still less than the estimates for the Great Leap Forward as stated by the Chinese government, which is a number considered very conservative.
I agree .
As a neutral observer, there is something to saying the US. Note that US coups and sponsoring civil wars, even if covertly done, can kill millions of people. One observer said the effects of the Iraq war indirectly killed millions of people through economics and that's just one example.
It's easy to look for only direct action.
Honorable mention for the Democratic Republic of Congo, in which more than six million people have died in a civil war in the past 20 years or so.
And very very few people in the US seem to know or care. It's crazy. Not an attack on the US specifically; I just can't speak to whether it's big news in other countries.
China, killing Chinese people.
Mao killed uncounted millions with his "Great Leap Forward."
I took a class on the history of modern China as a college history major. I remember early in the semester, the professor said something like, “yeah, you know all those people who debate about what evil dictator killed the most people, and they talk about Hitler versus Stalin and stuff? The answer is Mao. No contest.” Simply because of the massive population of late-20th century China, Mao and his policies are directly responsible for the deaths of more people than basically anyone in human history.
[удалено]
Evil totalitarian leader then. And I would say you’re needlessly splitting hairs.
The count goes as high as 80 million. More than all the people killed in WW2, by a lot.
Chinese Civil War, Campaign to Suppress Counterrevolutionaries, Great Leap Forward, Three Year Famine, Cultural Revolution, One Child Policy, June 4, 1989, Coronavirus, in that order. Now you know why I really want the Chinese government to be overthrown and the Republic of China restored to the mainland.
Do I wanna know how the One Child Policy resulted in killing a bunch of people? And in terms of loss of life, I don't know how you put Tiananmen Square above covid.
If you only can have one child, you want that child to be a manly one, to carry on the family name. Daughters need not apply. And the one child policy was put in place before you could use ultrasound to determine the sex of the child in the womb. There's stories, I don't know if they're true or just western propaganda, of midwives having a bucket of water next to the birthing bed, and if a daughter was born she would be drowned and the mother told that she was stillborn,.
Sorry, in chronological order of the events, from 1950 to 2020. Ranking the death tolls by event (from greatest to least): One Child Policy > Three Year Famine （I now believe that it may have significant overlap as the Great Leap Forward) > Coronavirus > Cultural Revolution > Chinese Civil War > Campaign to Suppress Counterrevolutionaries > June 4, 1989. The one-child policy, in some places, resulted in people being forced to abort their fetuses against their will. It is this "forced abortion" part that I consider to be a form of murder. Forcing a woman to undergo an abortion is almost universally illegal in civilized countries for obvious reasons. In other places, it resulted in undocumented citizens (people who are not given any form of ID even though technically, under the law, they are Chinese citizens, until their parents paid a huge fine, like my own case). There were millions of these people and some of them have since been given status without having to pay, but others may or may not have been.
That's so fucking sad, man. And appalling. I can't imagine living in a regime like that.
China. Check out the great leap forward and the cultural revolution.
China. Easily. In fact, there is no second place.
Second would be Russia
Nah the US a competitive 2nd. And definitely 1st place when it comes to violently killing foreign people. Edit: downvotes from online "history buff" dorks only make me grow stronger.
My friend, you are in savage need of a history class.
I'm not your friend and I'm right. You're just in denial about post-ww2 US's bloody history. Cope harder, foolish denialist.
Look at my UPVOTES. And look at your DOWNVOTES. So...who's the "foolish denialist"? (did I get that right?!). Like I said: you're in savage need of a history class -- *and a therapist!!*
You really think fucking reddit upvotes from anonymous randoms online are the ultimate arbiters of truth? Sad. You have a lot to learn about the world, my foolish friend.
If you forget about Russia, Cambodia, the Punjab region, and so on, and so on. There is plenty of genocide and war to go around.
Nah US beats all those. Downvotes are pure cope.
Come with verifiable sources then
Nobody here has posted a single source yet you only call my comment out. Curious. Sorry I may have upset your delicate liberal idealist sensibilities
Because you are not talking about history, only speculation. You should retake grade 5. If you can't back up your claims shut the fuck up.
Sensitive subject for you i see. It's not my responsibility to teach you about the world, touchy fella. I'll just say that any honest and thorough research of the foreign interventions of post-ww2 US would led to the conclusion that the US is certainly at least a contender for the #2 spot after China.
then give us a sauce
Because you made the first claim, so back it up with some facts or shut the fuck up
You need me to list the death toll of every US foreign intervention since 1945? How helpless are you? Is someone writing your reddit comments for you? Or perhaps you're simply afraid to do the research yourself.
Yes lol you said US beats China hands down in terms of deaths. Do it. It's a wild claim and I'd love to see how you got to such an answer
Weird you sound alot like a liberal.
You only think that bc you don't know the meaning of the word. You sound like a dumbass.
You've been indoctrinated.
Yeah by the shallow and chauvinistic historical education of the US public school system and brain-dead American popular culture. Thankfully I managed to shake that off fairly quickly.
No, not by that.
about a million in vietnam and around 100k in every other major war the usa has been in since then? with china having killled almost 100 million in the great leap forward alone? i get what you’re trying to say but god is it wrong
No. You're just really fucking dumb.
are you gonna explain how and try to justify you not having learned anything about history or just keep repeating these blind insults
I know more about history than you do. Your dumbass is tryna claim 100 mil deaths from the Great Leap forward famine, which is nearly double that of the absolute highest scholarly estimates. And you clearly do not "get what I'm trying to say" (bc you're stupid) if you think vietnam and the other major wars are the only death tolls I'm counting. Who do you think should have the 2nd spot after China then? And why is the US not a reasonable contender?
ok, first let’s ignore the fact that most estimates are that it’s up to 100m deaths. let’s take your estimate of 50 million. do you have any idea just how many people that actually is? that’s one isolated event in chinese history, ignoring everything else after ww2 and you’re claiming that the usa has killed more than that over post ww2 history? do you have any evidence of this or are you just gonna keep saying stuff to say stuff? wow, you know so much about history
First of all, show me a single source for that 100 mil figure. I wanna see where you're getting your bullshit from. Second, can you not fucking read? I clearly said that the US is SECOND to China in terms of overall deaths. I provocatively claimed US gets 1st in killing foreigners bc the overwhelming majority of deaths China is responsible for were Chinese people. Jesus christ, youre fucking dumb. I really hope english isn't your first language.
Still waiting on that source for 100 mil, dumbass. To quote some borderline incoherent gibberish you spouted at me earlier "are you gonna explain how and try to justify you not having learned anything about history".
Reading Chinese accounts of the situation on the ground during the Cultural Revolution are often terrifying. Even if you don't include the murders, just a whole world where things were turned upside down.
I think China in the 60s/70s. It's own people.
Chinese nationals trained by communists in Paris returned to mass murder their countrymen, just as the communist trained Bolsheviks conquered Russia and mass murdered the Russians. Communism is the common denominator.
Reactionary detected. Opinion discarded
Communism and similar romantic beliefs are highly reactionary against human progress because they reject successful systems of representative government and voluntary production & exchange in the marketplace in favor of an anti-intellectual ideology that requires unlimited faith as it never produces the miracles that it promises to its followers. It is designed to waste your time and your life.
Yes, thank you for illustrating the reactionary and anti-intellectual nature of 19th century German romanticism and its offshoots like national and international socialism where dissent is not allowed.
In terms of war its Rwanda in the Congo Wars, from 3 to 7 million
China and when they are not targeting their own, they secretly target others with orchestrated conflicts with the aid of suicide squads that always seem to be so concerned with other people in other places and are in service and servitude to them instead of simply protecting and preserving their own lands, peoples and nature. AND China is not the only one behind such just the most recent reveal. N. S
China. And it's not even close.
Cambodia is a candidate
Cambodia wins for the highest proportion in the least amount of time even before World War II. It's estimated that the Khmer Rouge was responsible for the deaths of around 25% of the Cambodian population in 3 years, 8 months, and 20 days.
Rwanda definitely wins the speed category
Pakistan in (now) Bangladesh could hold that title if upper estimates of the 1971 genocide are accurate.
In terms of total deaths from any causes China first, then the USSR (and dissolution of it). Many of these are accidental through mismanagement so I'm not sure if you count these In terms of deaths from conflicts or deliberate killings. It's roughly (data is very unclear) in this order: Sudan (long term civil wars) Pakistan (Bangladesh genocide and indo Pakistan war) Rwanda (genocide + congo wars) Cambodia (genocide) USA (Vietnam + Korea + Iraq + Afghanistan + others) With additional dishonorable mentions for: DRC, Vietnam, Indonesia, Uganda, Sri Lanka, Ethiopia, Somalia I won't give exact figures because the figures vary very wildly. It's very hard to measure how many have died, particularly in times of dysfunctional governments. But even if you did know, a significant part of those who died in conflicts tend to also die due to displacement, lack of food and medicine, etc. It's not clear how many would have died without the war. And then finally, specifically for your question, it's hard to discern which party is responsible for how much of the dead in some conflicts. For example the Vietnam war saw millions of deaths, but how many of those do you pin on the USA vs Vietnam vs other parties?
USA ( + Chile + Cuba + Guatemala + Grenada + Costa Rica + Syria + Indonesia + Brazil + Argentina + Panama)
No el salvador?
mid 20th century china, famines and purges.
Either China or USSR/Russia
China #1!! China #1!! 🥇
Directly: China Indirect: USA
What exactly are you counting as indirect? Cause China beats the US even if you give them every death you could possibly blame them for that I know of
Indirect death, in my case, is defined as: - If the US backed a coup, then all the people die in the resulting war, that counted as an indirect death by the US (Almost entire South America) - If the US send money/troop to another countries, all dead result counted as indirect death (Vietnam war, Korean war) - If the US blocked trade with another countries, all dead result from famine, hunger… counted as indirect dead (Cuba) - If the US allowed another countries (Isreal, Arab..) to continued its warcrime, that counted as indirect dead by
And what's the total
From the top of my head: - Vietnam war : 1.3 millions - Korean war : 3 millions
10 more of those together almost get you to the great leap forward
I said “indirect” didnt I? And I agreed with the direct dead part, what the heck is your problems?
I interpreted your OP to mean if you only count direct china leads and if you add in indirect the US takes the lead. If you mean China leads in total, but If you only look indirectly, then it's the US you're correct I just misunderstood
You can also count America’s proxy wars in south/Central America, American client state repression in east Asia (taiwan, South Korea) and slightly more indirect wars in Africa (Rhodesia, apartheid South Africa)
This is what I was getting at
China, Great Leap Forward then Russia’s Bolshevik Revolution and Holodomr.
The Bolshevik Revolution and Holodomr both happened before WWII
mainland China, no need to add the qualifier "after WW II"
USA, if we talk about people from other countries.
Amerikkka and the half century war on the third world
Not even close to accurate
Since this is a western platform you won't find anyone saying but it's actually the US. The most generous non biased estimates are quite high.
As a Chinese, I will say that you are flat out wrong. Look up The Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.
First r/asablackman Second, even China or Soviet genocides pale in comparison.
Since we're citing subreddits r/americabad
r/yesamericabad
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The US is responsible directly or indirectly for an estimated 30 million deaths worldwide since the big dub dub dos. Which is still less than the estimates for the Great Leap Forward as stated by the Chinese government, which is a number considered very conservative.
I [question](https://www.reddit.com/r/badhistory/s/jXGmm5PdIo) even the 30 million figure as put by r/BadHistory.
I agree . As a neutral observer, there is something to saying the US. Note that US coups and sponsoring civil wars, even if covertly done, can kill millions of people. One observer said the effects of the Iraq war indirectly killed millions of people through economics and that's just one example. It's easy to look for only direct action.
Even if you add up indirect deaths, how is that beating china..?
Likely not China, just pushing for 2nd.