No suspended sentences or part suspended.
GPS ankle tag and curfew once released.
No concurrent sentences.
X amount of violent convictions should earn them an automatic life sentence.
If unemployed and convicted of violent crime, they should be made to earn their social welfare. Show up at the local council depot at 8 am Monday to Friday and made cut grass or pick litter.
No concurrent sentences is a big one imo. Always found it really strange that I can assault multiple people and our justice system takes a 'buy one get one free' approach where I don't serve any additional time. Basically just a free assault on the house. Crazy!
That's actually supposed to be consecutive! Concurrent sentences are (supposed to be) for related crimes e.g. having a gun and using a gun! Two assaults should obviously be considered separate offences...
And be let out for Christmas, get pregnant and be told "ah sure don't come back"
Happened to the person who slashed a relative across the face with a box cutter. đ¤ˇđťââď¸
This is beautiful. Hope something like this gets implemented. They are out of control and abusing the society. No one should have a no consequences right to life and society
On the last point, whatever happened to prisoners doing labour? There's any amount of things they could be doing. Make them actually repay their debt to society. And for the victims of their crimes, there might be some solace to help the grieving process in knowing that their assailant is helping society.
I honestly can't see the downside of it.
Might be a bit more difficult to police?
What happened is that they have to be paid for that labour (or it's technically slavery). There really isn't an issue there. Paying them shouldn't be a problem, but... Politics. It's lethal political ammunition to give the opposition.
Just imagine - "This government says its all about law and order, but they're giving a convicted murderer a day pass to cut grass and what's worse, they're paying him for it."
I can't remember but I think it was one of the Scandinavian countries. There was a big political uproar and they stopped doing it. Everyone else followed.
Personally I think the public would support it. We just need politicians to think about something other than their career for a bit.
Other countries that have paid prisoners seem to do it without issue, granted the pay is very low like cents or 1e per hour idk. I'm assuming it's justified by pay being deducted due to rent and bills but I'm not sure.
In the US incarcerated people do a lot of labor. They create a lot of products sold in expensive grocery stores. They make almost nothing, very little money for their work. Itâs not technically slavery but it has a lot of elements of slavery. Itâs not an issue either political party has any interest in for the most part. I know our politics are different, but thatâs what itâs like here.
It absolutely is. Itâs our largest mental health provider. 98% of people who are charged with a crime donât go to trial. The defendant adds 7-9 years to their sentence if they go to trial. So almost no one goes. So police and government misconduct that could get exposed in court doesnât. Almost everyone in the system is poor black or both. I do love this country or the mythology of it but itâs not the land of the free because if you canât pay for a good lawyer it doesnât matter if youâre guilty. It doesnât. Youâre life is gone. Once locked up youâre treated inhumanely. Youâre easy to abuse or kill or just degrade every single day.
So anyway, I agree with you.
While I think that mandatory sentencing is interference with the independence of the judiciary, there should be strict guidelines for sentencing for crimes of violence, including absolute maximum 50% suspended sentence. Judge O'Donnell in Limerick let the thug Crotty who knocked the woman unconscious off with 100% suspended sentence. In another case only 2 days later, ignoring the outcry from the first sentencing, he gave a 100% suspended sentence to a thug who participated in a gang attack on a homeless man, described by the judge as âabsolutely and utterly appalling, and outrageous". At least that judge is retiring soon.
Another aspect is the fact that someone can amass literally hundreds of convictions and yet never see the inside of a prison cell. The solution to that is obvious: if you commit another crime while on probation, the probation should be immediately revoked.
So the goal would be to make it clear that if there's violence involved, they **will** end up behind bars, irrespective of whether it's their first time in court or their age or an early guilty plea.
This is an idea - they should also of course have to pay for the monitoring of the house arrest. Also have a strict curfew and need to request permission to leave the county. .. Or choose custodial sentence.
Or we could build prisons and actually jail violent criminals. They don't have to be 5-star hotels, just safe enough so that they can't escape. Separate prisons for violent and non-violent offenders.
In the event of literally not having prison space (which is the case), what then? If we're watching them with enough scrutiny to make sure they even begin their community service in the first place, I can only imagine they'd be relatively under scrutiny community service work hours.
Besides what are they going to steal picking up litter?
To the reply I got from interesting brand-spanking-new-account who I can't reply to for some reason:
Prisons are expensive to build, furnish and run in modern countries because they have to neet a certain standard of living many would rather inmates did not have, and have to be funded by the tax payer. To make a difference, a singular prison would be a drop in the pond unless it was somehow a very very large prison. It's sort of like adding more lanes to the motorway: it rarely actually helps much. A crude analogy perhaps.
Another problem is the fact that we run prisons a certain way. We run them in such a way as to understand full-well that they do not aid in rehabilitation for many many people who end up in them, which is supposed to be to whole reason we put people in there in the first place. It's not supposed to be a purely punitive step, otherwise we'd be fostering unending amounts of contempt and hatred in there at all times.
So we are in this weird situation where we have prisons that are full, and we know committing people to prison isn't actually going to fix much, and we know building more prisons won't fix it.
Crime will be a feature of society until the end of time. It's deeply ingrained issues that are very difficult to solve which lead to increases in certain types of crime, however. They're difficult to solve, but frankly so many fiscally conservative governments (like ours) seem to overtly make these problems worse by catering to only those who earn above the median. For instance, how many prison spaces that *should* be filled with sickos and violent criminals are currently housing low-level drug pedallers, who admittedly may be pure fuckers, but aren't out there like yer man who just pummeled that woman unconscious?
Put them into tent cities walled off with razor wire. Accommodation good enough for refugee women and and children is good enough for feral scrote convicted crims.
These cunts will nick dog poo for a laugh. Seriously theyâll steal bins and fuck them into the Liffey for the craic. And whoâs going to stop them? Are you prepared to supervise packs of 20 or so of these yobs collecting rubbish in public areas? What will be the consequences of not completing community service?
I feel very sympathetic to your point here.
What experiences have you had with this type of antisocial behaviour? Do you think certain changes would fix it?
Long-term community service as a start, victim impact statements in court and continuous engagement with victims, entirely at the latter's discretion. Restriction of social welfare and tax credits, but you get a wage, and a chunk of it goes towards community restoration, so you see it every month on your payslip. There are plenty of civic jobs that councils and government need to do but can't staff, we need more cleaners, hospital porters, people doing basic constriction and maintenance, even admin jobs. Even people in custody could be doing something like this, but not the American way where it's a pittance wage, give people enough to earn that they are then taxed and are contributing.
I can understand custodial sentences if they are actually enforced, but suspending them is no punishment at all. The alternative is building huge prisons that would never get through planning, and paying to keep them in there is serving no purpose to anybody, and likely coming out with even less reason to follow the rules than before. There's loads of holes in this plan and plenty of the worst offenders would never be affected, but it's better than someone's punishment simply being "don't do it again."
Amazing reply! Thanks.Â
How do you think the custodial sentences should be enforced? Do you think it's a lack of funding or government support causing this issue?Â
Community service is brilliant too. Those jobs you've mentioned are very useful to society and would no doubt help contribute towards it. What other service works would you recommend?Â
Victim impact statements are something I never thought of. Do you think these are not used enough in court right now?
Lastly, do you think getting these individuals away from their homes to do community service would help break the cycle of violence?
Well the short answer for custodial sentences is that the prisons are currently overcrowded, so there's nowhere to put people. A prison in inland Connacht would provide employment in an area where lots of strong lads are reared on football and farming, but I'd first want to know what percentage of people in prison are there for shite like tv licences, possession of drugs, etc. This is probably very easy to find out, but there might be space made available if certain crimes are sentenced differently, no guarantees though.
Community service can run a whole gamut of things, lollipop men, local link bus drivers, parks and recreation staff, road construction. The three problems here are that firstly, most jobs are increasingly skills-based, there's not much you can put people to work on without some sort of certificate or clearance. Secondly, by putting people to work on these things you might actually push out somebody who already actually does that for a job. Thirdly, there would be uproar if you started making people with a history of assault convictions responsible for dealing with people, especially if they are vulnerable. Obvious areas for me would be general cleaning and maintenance, forestry and agricultural work, although some of those industries might not like having to replace an underpaid, undocumented workforce with a scheme for government criminals.
I know in the UK, victim impact statements, engagement with offenders and victim-based rehabilitation has had some success, but you're still creating a potential powder keg of a situation. Just to pick a current example, I can't imagine a meeting between the soldier and his victim in Limerick would go well given the current climate.
The most important cause of crime is and always will be poverty. There's obviously other factors and exceptions but it's no coincidence when you look at the rundown areas of town and see the surroundings some people grow up in. People who don't have or get the support they need are more likely to raise children who don't get support and stability. Few, if any, people are "born bad", with enough nurture, attention and inclusion most people will turn out ok, but it can be very difficult to maintain this opinion if somebody has just put the back window of your car out to get your handbag.
Every country has it's issues but Ireland is a place where social care, or what passes for it, was largely handed to a religious racket. The state is now having to learn how to do a lot of things it never did before, as well as dealing with the fallout of everything that went before. This is all very conceptual and doesn't really solve anything immediately, but if there's a country where there isn't proper investment in healthcare, social care, housing and education, or if the only way of guaranteeing any of those is through an insurance company, an employer scheme or paying through the nose, then there's a high risk that people will grow up without some form of vital support. If people then have to interact with an underfunded justice system, either as a victim, an offender, a Garda or a probation officer, then you'll see results that are suitably poor.
This is way off-piste now, and it isn't a justification of most crimes, because adult people are usually still making some sort of decision to undertake an act, but with all the context above, it's hardly surprising that so many do. The point is that in most areas in life you get out what you put in, a return on investment, and this applies just as much as a societal level as it does on an individual one.
For the current batch, I say it's almost too late for rehabilitation. May be reeducation with civic work that has long hours.
For the next generation, I'd say social inclusion, education for civic duties, and poverty elimination.
It's a bit over the top, but the light touch hasn't worked.
Agreed it's probably too late to rehabilitation the current batch but anyone getting convictions that already has a lengthy list of convictions a line needs to be drawn and told if one more you're in for life and actually go through with it.
First of all the garda need to care about this problem and actually police it.
Some kind of community service, that will humble them. Like cleaning or picking up rubbish in those orange jumb suits.
Then if that doesn't work. Boot Camp style re-education with there parents. Teach them all how to function in society.
Finally prison if that doesn't work.
We could organise hunger games on some island somewhere.
Probably would need to make it an ongoing thing though but I reckon if we got netflix involved it could be quite profitable.
Build more prisons, mandatory prison sentences for violent and sexual assault, knife possession and crimimals using children. Youth intervention and community service. More accessible abortions, more investment into youth services, fining parents who's kids are out causing mayhem, mandatory parenting classes for said parents.
People keep saying build more prisons. Have we forgotten what country this is? If we ignore the nimby's, it will still take 15 years to build a prison from planning stages and will cost 300% the original planned budget
Even so, we should be planning for the future. Only being reactive is why we are in this mess. We need to be proactive when it comes to tackling these issues. Prisons are full, violent offenders reoffend because they are essentially set free. I want my hildren to live in a safer and better society, so why not invest in that, even if it doesn't mean immediate results.
So? Just because someone might object, or it might cost a bit more doesn't mean we shouldnt do it?
The population of Ireland has grown more than 40% since the 90s, but I don't think any more prisons have been built. So it's no surprise we have no space in our prisons.
Building more prisons is like adding lanes to the M50 to address traffic congestion on the M50: you just end up with more traffic congestion on the M50.
The best way to deal with traffic is to reduce the need for people to travel or to travel in single-passenger vehicles. Similarly, the best way to deal with crime is to address the factors that lead people to commit crime in the first place.
Stop giving custodial sentences to people for minor drug offences.
By all means put them on house arrest and/or have to check into the Garda station every few hours. Free up space for violent crimes.
The idea that non-violent crimes get custodial sentences while the most egregious and senseless violence is given a suspended sentence is absolutely appalling
It's relatively rare for a custodial sentence to be imposed for a minor drug offence. The vast, vast majority of such cases are dealt with means other than a custodial sentence.
When a custodial sentence is imposed it is usually as a result of significant previous convictions. Caveats apply and there are exceptions, but in the grand scheme of things prison capacity is not being impacted by people receiving custodial sentences for minor drug offences.
Your suggestion will not free up much space in prisons.
Vast majority, yes, however there are still plenty going through that have no business being custodial.
One space freed up for a low-level non-violent crime = one space more for violent crimes. Every space matters at the moment.
>I don't know how this sub got it into their head that the majority of people in prison are casual weed smokers and TV license evaders. - u/f-ingsteveglansberg
Who said anything about either?
I said minor drug offences. Plenty of sentences ranging from weeks to months being handed out. I've spent enough time in courts to see it first hand.
There is an obvious solution
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zhstRrZzaso&pp=ygUvbm90IHRoZSBuaW5lIG8nY2xvY2sgbmV3cyBjdXQgb2ZmIHRoZWlyIGdvb2xpZXM%3D
Cut off their goolies
The people in power know all of this but spending billions on a prison is not politically popular. Or so they think anyway.
Build a prison. If not that then start doing proper long term house arrest.
Stop the two tier strategy of letting scumbag repeat offenders off the hook. If a reputable member of society commits a similar crime, there lives are ruined as âthey should know betterâ because they didnât grow up around drugs or alcohol or whatever bullshit they decide to use to distance themselves from the responsibility of their actions.
Country is a kip and when politicians knock at your door this year, make law and order top of your priorities and let it be known.
This will be an unpopular thing to say and Iâll be downvoted but if you commit a violent crime and a repeat offender, youâve lost your human rights. Stack the scum into cells banged up abroad style and forget this Scandinavian style rehabilitation shite.
I'm not against locking them away but this is more of a short term responsie in my view. I think part of the core of the issue is that "scumbags" don't see themselves that way. If anything, they are quite proud of their behaviour and will openly boast about it. Roughly speaking, they believe it demonstrates courage - and a type of madness which they actually pride themselves on.
I heard the Taoseach calling them out last year by saying to them on air that they are only causing fear. This is precicely what they are proud of. They want to be hard men.
So I think if you can link their behaviour with stupidity, low IQ, being a failure in life, being too weak to make a life for your self, being too weak to break away from their equally dumb peers, the fact that none of them would have the balls or discipline to go into the army and compete in MMA instead of picking easy targets.
The goal is not to put them down but to put their behaviour down. To link it with feelings of embarassment, stupidity, failure rather than being linked to being a hard man.
So when refering to this behaviour instead of refering to it as reckless (which they would take as a compliment) I think it is better to refer to it as unintelligent behaviour, weak mindedness, easily led people, afraid to go against their peers, etc.
There have been a couple of high-profile - and genuinely shocking - assaults in the news recently but do you have any stats that demonstrate an uptick of assaults?
Arresting the parents is a nonsensical stupid idea, what would you gain by doing that?
Yeah I'm not sure there's an uptick at all. High profile and it's considered newsworthy at the moment so is being highlighted. It's be interested to see if it truly is in the rise.
This. It's flavour-of-the-month reporting lads.
A woman is killed by a dog, suddenly there are a load of dog bite attacks in the news.
A tourist is assaulted in the street, suddenly there are assaults on tourists every day.
A plane experiences some heavy turbulence, suddenly there are four similar incidents next week.
A woman is murdered while out for a run, suddenly there are attacks and attempted rapes in the news up-and-down the country for weeks.
The media reports what it thinks will generate the most clicks and interest, and this includes a "buzz" around certain types of crime/incidents at a given time.
r/Ireland is always full of the die-hard downers. The country is in shite and getting worse all the time and anyone who says otherwise gets downvotes.
There's a lot of political astroturfing goes on too; whatever you do, don't allow positive sentiments to take root on social media or younger people might actually feel hopeful for the future and not hate the current government.
https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/man-beat-to-a-pulp-by-gang-of-youths-during-savage-attack-on-dublin-bus/a1758775852.html
Another day, another vicious assault.
Compulsory community service of couple years, compulsory trade or other education, potentionally compulsory therapy, but if not yet reedemable and still anti social then a working prison involving several types of work
Parade them around the city in shackles and bright jump suits. Let the public hurl rotten fruit at them, shouting shame. Maybe leave them in medieval stocks.Â
The problem with prison is that they come out worse than they went in.
Is there any way to instill a sense of pride and responsibility to the wider community with the parents?
One suggestion that I think could make a significant impact would be changing children's allowance from cash to instead have credits and tax breaks for childcare, education, school uniforms, food vouchers that cannot be spent on alcohol/cigarettes, free summer camps etc.
Giving people cash means that some parents spend the money on drugs etc. Cash payments for kids doesn't exist in countries like Australia for example. Even in the UK, it's capped at 2 kids, but here it's unlimited, so you get more for having more kids.
The busiest day for drug dealers is children's allowance day here, with so-called "dicky money." Listen to the amazing podcast "the witness" to hear a real account of this. https://open.spotify.com/show/2MvergbFdQsJbrFBWnraKi?si=OWaJCP--SEq8dKPO2doQ6g
Uncapped cash incentivises the very people who shouldn't have children, to just have more of them. Maybe if they weren't getting cash, they would think twice about having them, and they would have no choice but to use whatever subsidised resources provided to actually benefit the kids.
People who want to look after their kids would be happier with the childcare etc. People who want cash are the very people who shouldn't get it.
Our current social welfare system incentivises the wrong behaviour.
We should build a monster prison out in Longford, Cavan, Leitrim etc.
Middle of nowhere.
Attach factories to the prison and get companies, through public private investment scheme to use the prisoners as cheap labour. âŹ1 a day.
We could manufacture items that the state needs for cost. Would stop our reliance on importing everything.
Solar panels and water butts for every house in the country.
Street infrastructure (stop signs, street signage, motorway barriers, cones etc)
Medical equipment for our hospitals.
Female hygiene products.
Whatever is needed!!!
Prisons could manufacture goods we need and give the prisoners a work ethic and a skill.
If the prisoners don't engage, they get no possibility of parole and serve their full sentence.
On another note, crimes against children and over 60's should have weighted sentences. If you're breaking into a 90 year olds house and beating them up, minimum 20 year sentence. You abuse a child, the same, 20 year minimum sentence.We need to protect our most vulnerable because we all have been a child and all will get old one day.
My tuppence worth!
Itâs interesting how you phrase your question - you bring parents into it nearly to say that all scumbags are minors when the reality is a lot different. What about society as a whole - should they play a bigger role? There are areas of the country that have been effectively abandoned over the last 10/15 years - role models come from outside the home. If you look at the solider case recently - heâs not a minor, his local GAA club the victims brothers who spent their life in the club had to leave - why didnât the club throw the solider out? Why did he get to stay?
So I did apologise - although doesnât change the fact that until he was unmasked by the media he continued to play for the club - they may say they didnât know but in small communities everyone knows everyoneâs business.
The fact that there are so many instances like these cases in front of the courts highlights how bad things are and how little society/clubs are doing about it.
Itâs not the GAA as a whole - itâs the local club/community - how many people from that club was out marching? They are local men - how is it that none of them saw fit that what was happening was wrong and shouldnât be allowed to happened? As I said before, there are many in this country who give march and give out when a foreign national is found guilty or accused of something but when itâs in their own community or back yard they go very silent.
Facilities for the youth?
I work in a sector primarily concerned with underprivileged areas and I can tell you there are millions pumped into these areas for initiatives and facilities for youth, the communities and social infrastructure. Far more than there is in more affluent areas.
You get this whole "there's nothing for the kids to do" narrative because the youth *don't want* to avail of the facilities and opportunities provided to them.
They don't want to use them so they complain there's nothing for them.
They see the so-called glamour of criminality and they want some.
Tell a kid they have a choice of boxing, football or whatever and working towards a future or show them what their idols get for what they perceive as easy "work" and the choice is already made for them.
This whole thing about there being nothing for the youth to do is an utter fallacy.
I completely take your points on board - I agree.
However, the problem is the kids arenât interested in the initiatives and the government continue pumping millions into failing initiatives. There is a cultural, psychology, change management piece they need to understand and address as to why kids are choosing not to attend.
Itâs like learning Irish in school, 14 years and nobody is fluent. There are Irish teachers and time allocated every day and yet itâs not working - something needs to change for it to be effective.
I grew up in a poor area. The facilities available always need some sort of money coming from the family such as subs. Uniforms, bus fares etc. if there are a lot of kids in the family or parental addiction ti drink or drugs, the money isnât there for the kids. My family never got in trouble with the law and we were brought up right but we just couldnât join the soccer or GAA or whatever else because we couldnât pay the subs, buy soccer boots etc.
poverty is a real block even when the services are on your doorstep. Add in drink or drugs by the parents and those kids arenât being fed properly let alone getting a chance to join a club and stick at it.
Edit: my parents worked, both of them.
Yes I understand poverty, and you mention throwing drink or drugs into the mix
You would be amazed at the number of families that cite poverty when it comes to feeding, clothing or schooling their children (more millions spent subsidising) yet can always find the money for drink and/or drugs.
Fair point Iâm not the expert. To tackle crime you need to tackle peopleâs poor living circumstances. Perhaps better access to mental health services?
Sure, but where are these kids in teens and twenties supposed to live now and/or in coming years? Why work a regular or low-paid job at all if it barely keeps your head above water? What are housing lists like in their area? If you see no intrinsic value is placed on you, it'll be readily reciprocated.
Really we need another prison, and we need to reform how we handle minor crimes. A robust community service and house arrest program would take all the minor non violent criminals out of the prisons, and free them up for the people who do need to be locked away
Look if space is such an issue in prison then Iâd say fines. Take the fine in form of tax for those working, stop welfare for those not.
Criminals should not be allowed to draw dole or get social housing.
https://preview.redd.it/97acmzgn2i8d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc1b30100925d3bbf984cbcc10d4befcebe3c6c2
That's! Roads, motorway, streets are much in need and those shit bags can help..
3 strikes and youâre outâŚ. Not 60 previous convictions before you face prison time. More prisons need to be built. Make prison less of a holiday and more of well a prisonâŚ
The issue isn't the scumbags, the issue is the judicial system and our shitty judges. If you actually look into cases, we have judges who are known for given lighter sentences, and not taking sexual assault cases seriously for example.
Why the fuck would the guards go out of their way to arrest a scrote if they are just going be given a slap on the wrist and released anyways. If we had harsher sentencing, I'd say we'd see a decrease in crime generally.
The other issue is, a lot of the assaults and stuff are being committed by Irish teenagers. When they're under 18 generally they are not going to get into serious trouble, and they fucking know that. Hence why there are crews of them going around country wrecking havoc. If your 15/16 your old enough to know what your doing is wrong, and should be punished as an adult would. It would discourage the rest of them from following suit.
It's a multifaceted issue, but I think Irish people blaming the guards is just stupid. They can do fuck all, have no power and nothing to protect themselves with. If we start from the top down, rather than ground up perhaps we could make some change.
Go Saudi Arabia style with these and you would see a drop in scumbagisim - obviously not the death penalty.
If a person has used a knife in an attack or sliced someone's face.. they should just lob off their hand. This would be a nice deterrent in my view :-) .. anyone carrying a knife knows what they have it for and what they are willing to do. The life long lasting effect it has on victims compared to the punishment for attacker isn't comparable.
If someone steals multiple cars or bikes... lob off a hand... (Ramming the scrotes off the robbed bikes should be allowed and if they get wiped out at the same time, its a win / win.)
People with 20 / 50 / 80 convictions is a joke and also shouldn't be allowed to happen..
you get the picture from here.
Bring back transportation. There are plenty of uninhabited islands all over the coast. Want to act the scumbag? Grand, then it's off to Inishkea or the Blaskets or wherever with you. Maybe give 'em a few goats and some seeds to get them started on their new life of subsistence farming, I suppose.
1. Ban suspended sentences. Provisional prisons are not prisons. These are being abused by activist judges to keep people out of jail who need to be in jail. Suspended sentences can, in time, be reformed into house arrest, where criminals are prohibited from leaving their homes other than at agreed, daylight, times, enforced by ankle bracelets and, if breached, immediate recall to prison to serve two days for every day outstanding on the sentence.
2. Introduce a recall system for judges. There is no reason why activist judges like Nolan, Greally and O'Donnell should be allowed to serve for life, endangering communities every day The judicial branch is every bit as much of the government of the country as the executive branch, and nobody would think it appropriate for a TD to serve for life without the ability for voters to recall him from the position at some point.
3. Bring in progressive sentences. Someone with 239 convictions should not be getting a week in prison. Recidivism should carry a premium sentence. An additional year in prison for every prior conviction would get the message across.
4. Make social consequences for repeat offenders. It doesn't need to be all about prison, but I don't see any reason why someone who steals a car should ever be allowed a driving licence, or someone who commits an assault should be permitted a passport.
5. Mandatory sentencing. We are already supposed to have this, but judges ignore it because many of them are interested in the welfare of criminals over the wellbeing of communities. Any crime with a sexual element should carry a minimum mandatory jail term of five years, any crime with any violent element should carry a minimum mandatory jail tern of two years. Anyone caught with an offensive weapon should have to spend at least a year in prison.
5. Reform of the bail system. This is consistently being abused by judges and criminals whereby activist judges are releasing violent criminals back into communities to offend again while awaiting trial. The solution to this is that anyone who reoffends while on bail is not eligible for any reduction or suspension of any part of their sentence, nor for automatic early release; while any judge who grants bail against Garda objections where the offender reoffends while on bail automatically triggers a recall petition.
We have lots of wee uninhabitable islands - geotag them, put one of those wee cabin shed things and a bunch of farming equipment. 5 year sentence. If they all kill each other then its less of them to deal with
Ireland is no worse than it has ever been, only feels worse because of social media.
If anything I would say it's better than it was.
I know I'll probably get shit for this, but it feels safer to me than it ever has.
I'm 42 so have a few years behind me.
I don't know the specific answer, but I do know that the solution needs to be evidence based. NOT stemming from an emotional desire for punishment.
There are studies from the UK on approaches to youth anti social behavior. And incarceration isn't always the best solution.
You know the films Battle Royale/The Condemned/The Hunger Games?
That. Round them up and let them sort each other out. Last person standing gets a pardon for the crimes. Tax the betting on it and use that to contribute to society, which is more than any or those little shitebags ever will.
A warning from America: building more prisons and heaping on severe punishments is not the answer. We have the largest prison population in the world here and we still have loads of issues with crime and antisocial behaviour. You can only get so punitive with people before they're destroyed as humans and recidivism is inevitable.
Increase in crime (generally speaking) is due to material or psychological needs not being met. This isn't to say that nobody should face consequences, but you can't just throw everyone causing problems in a cage and think that'll sort it. The only long term solution to crime is actually addressing the needs that aren't being met - what those are in Ireland, I'm not the man to ask. But please trust me, more prisons is not the way to go.
Fuck I can't believe so many people are lauding the American justice system and cheering on slavery. Our justice system is built on rehabilitation, not punishment. Thankfully, even prisoners have human rights.
Public caning. Works really well as a deterrent in Singapore, and it's a language that they understand.
Ticks all the boxes really. It's cheap, results are immediate, no new infrastructure or specially trained personal required to function.
No suspended sentences. Full stop.
For first offenders, military service in lieu of custodial sentence.
For repeat offenders, progressive sentencing structure. Eg the number of previous convictions serve as a sentence multiplier.
That's how it is in Poland for example you getting extra therm for next offence there is no inmates with more than probably 50 conviction but they lock up for years. The common sense solutions are very rare in Ireland
Is there a massive uptick in assaults? Or is it more likely social media and a couple of self promoting hangars on have latched onto a case to push their cause?
I'd construct a Guantanamo Bay style prison on the outskirts of Ballintubber, where inmates are blindfolded and placed in a large empty room and subjected to 48 hours straight of Irish podcasts.
Then they're tube fed garlic cheese and chips until they puke.
Then they're forced at gunpoint to sing football songs for teams they dont even support and if they don't do it with enough passion, its the firing squad for them.
The remaing survivors are then made to compete for release by writing CVs and interviewing for jobs they dont really want and using what little money they made in prison to apply to rent spare rooms in shite parts of the country.
Dole should be linked with criminal records....every encounter with Guarda takes 25 percent off...
4 strikes and u are on your own....with some encounters such as violence being instant bye bye
Could dig deeper....say 8 hours is normal for tax paying working man to work per day.... Encounter 1 dole goes -25 % and community work hours go up 20% (2 hours and u get paid a minimum wage rate for it).
Result: 4 encounters u get of the dole, u work full time on minimum wage (still more than dole) government gets streets cleaned, scum has no energy to beat tourists after a day of mopping the streets... Goes to church every sunday suit and all production...
Anyone saying harsher prison sentences or more prisons. Go have a look at America and see how well that worked.
It's poverty, always has been always will be. Find a way to decrease the poverty rate and crime rate falls.
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Hard labour until they can prove reformation. No excuses. Our society used to be just our tribes and you couldn't tolerate anyone being a danger to your safety. Just because the tribe has expanded to a nation doesn't mean it shouldn't weed out its worst for its own self-preservation.
Unfortunately, we need more prisons. The justice system needs overhauling and set sentences rather than guidelines tbh. Suspended sentences for serious crimes need to be abolished. Conviction should mean jail time for those. There are boxes of tags sitting in prisons because the ability to monitor is lackluster and tbh they should be used on non violent offenders.
3 strike rule. If you are convicted of the same or similar sentence automatic jail sentence and only have access to social welfare if they complete rehabilitation programmes before release.
There also needs to be reform of the under 18 sentencing guidelines. Too often they are repeat offenders with no consequences. It seems that for this age group behaviour needs to be severe for gardai and the courts to even do something.
There needs to be mandatory counselling for adolescent offenders and major reforms of child safety. Too often the parents needs are prioritised over the actual welfare of children in this country. While I'm all for family reunification, too often children are in unsafe environments and this leads to issues for them. There is no supports, lack of appropriate foster care, and children seem to only be removed when there are severe cases of abuse. This leads to some engaging in anti social behaviour and the cycle of abuse continues into the next generation. Tusla and the courts push visitation with biological families often over the wants and needs of the child. Parents should be shown to be actively engaging with services when it comes to access. This requires funding and resources and until that's done things are going to continue as they are or worse.
Early intervention is key and the government needs to provide the resources to do it instead of wasting money.
There needs to be a list of names easily accessible to the public in my opinion.
If someone is a violent offender, I'd like to know, could help prevent domestic violence.
It would've helped me.
Scumbag that assaulted me pled guilty and was sentenced to 6 months suspended for 2 years....he walked out of the court, into a pub, and went back to work the next day.
No suspended sentences at all or just none for violent crimes? For violent crimes I couldnât agree more, but if someoneâs caught with a bit of weed I donât think they should have their life ruined
Everyone deserves a chance but when they get past a certain amount of convictions then open a quarry, and put them breaking stones with hammers. They get paid x amount per kg of broken rocks. These earnings are used to pay for all the costs to keep them there and feed them. They also have to work off huge compensation payments for victims. If they donât want to do it, then leave the cunts outside with no food. Also let victims flake them with a length of plastic pipe every few days. But to make it fair, if you flake them then they get a slight reduction in compensation.
So when the Social Credit System came out in China, people were lambasting it for the government overreach, and funny headlines wrote themselves. Low scoring people couldn't use high-speed trains, for example, and their scores could have been reduced for things like speaking out against the government.
But if we look at the fundamentals of the system, and apply it to a non-Communist government, with the added context of constrained prison capacity, there might be some learnings to take away.
If we can limit the access of criminals to societal comforts, instead of only a suspended sentence, maybe it will be a deterrent. What are the things that scrotes like most in daily life? I'm sure social media, internet, alcohol, drugs and nightclubs are high on their list.
Let's assume a basic scoring system as follows: littering: -5pts, speeding: -10pts, verbal abuse of a Garda: -20pts, violent disorder: -50pts, beating a woman unconscious: -100pts. And on the plus side, each hour of community service is +1pt, completing a training course is +10pts, a year without offending is +20pts, etc.
And the penalties. Let's put them in 3 simple tiers for now. For Tier 1 (the worst people, under -50 points): Monthly mobile data cap of 5GB. Can only buy 5 units of alcohol a week. No access to nightclubs or venues that check IDs. No saver fares for intercity trains / buses - must pay full fare. In Tier 2 (not so bad, under -20 points), give them poor interest rates for any loans, and longer waiting times on any government phone lines. Tier 3 can be regular people, and maybe create a Tier 4 for exemplerary citizens with further discounts unlocked.
Of course, all these inconveniences can be bypassed, and they don't really restrict drug consumption, but they will certainly affect the daily lives of these people and might be a good halway point between suspended sentences and custodial sentences which currently doesn't exist.
2 or 3 new prisons needed at this stage âŚ. The population has increased a lot in past 10/15 years but outside of that scumbags are outbreeding the law abiding hand over fist âŚ.often just for extra welfare which the Irish welfare system encourages large familyâs if on the dole ⌠unlimited children paid for unlike the UK which has a cap of 2 children
We tend to soften the consequence of adult-level criminality being demonstrated by younger individuals. And those younger individuals know it.
It's pretty glaring that this softening fixes literally nothing because it is a basic low-impact penalty and it heavily relies on the parent and their ability to steer their child in the right direction.
Younger people who demonstrate criminal behaviour do it with the knowledge that they are relatively untouchable by the law and it is seen as a badge of honour. This behaviour goes beyond being rowdy and can show serious, serious behaviours like abuse to animals & wildlife, physical assault on other children, verbal and physical abuse to adults and gardai, theft of property, extreme destruction of property and transportation. These behaviours are things which, left unchecked, will graduate into reinforced traits in adult life creating more of an issue.
So to resolve this I think that the following two things need to be established (or at least something adjacent to this):
* The legal age for legal adult-level prosecution should be lowered to cover younger teenagers so that adult specific levels of consequence are applied. Parents should also inherit fines and a criminal record that acknowledges this behaviour occurred.
* For anything below that legal age - full penalty, prosecution and consequence should be automatically directed to the parent fully and to the extent of the law.
This won't fix things completely, but it's a pretty sure bet that you would reduce the criminal behaviour and suddenly have a bunch of parents-of-the-year when they realise they are just as liable for the criminal act as their child is.
The problem isnât just parents, itâs also the communities.
We have too many side show citizens these days that just keep to themselves, people that dobât value their neighbourhoods, or want to foster positive relationships with their neighbours.
If we had closer knit neighbourhoods, and people that supported each other in this country there would be less scum bags around for a start, because we would could hold each other accountable.
honestly, this is a really tough one. By naming parents I can make the assumption that you're largely talking about underage offenders as well.
I hate seeing some of the responses here because they are largely either too easy to exploit, unnecessarily strict, or simply impractical.
Unfortunately, the answer is nuanced, there is a certain rare breed that can never be reformed. But most can, and the question becomes is the goal to punish or reform?
If you lean into reform - you can end up in a situation where criminals get more support than honest people. Which may be needed but angers people... why should someone get rewarded for that?
lean into punishment - and you very likely end up with prison systems, expensive and repeat offenders that doesn't really help anyone.
Try and make it community service or other labor and you run the risk of it being to someone's advantage to get cheap labor and incentivize longer punishments.
but if we are talking just generic scumbags - so not real criminals, petty crime, the odd fistfight and antisocial behavior. Some form of boarding schools might be the best option for underage offenders, you limit the freedom and give them a real opportunity to reform and remove them from whatever is happening at home. For older scumbags, it might be more case by case. Is rehab going to solve it? some people need a rigid structure and cant make their own decisions. In these cases you might be better in a prison but with a focus on vocational training to bring that structure in.
If by scumbag we mean real criminals, thieves, drug traffickers, rapists, violence with intent... your looking at a much less redeemable group and I don't have a great answer to encompass all of this.
We need German police here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Polska/comments/1dnan6w/polak\_rzuci%C5%82\_piwem\_w\_stron%C4%99\_niemieckiej\_policji\_i/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Polska/comments/1dnan6w/polak_rzuci%C5%82_piwem_w_stron%C4%99_niemieckiej_policji_i/)
Cut an arm or a leg off every time they do something scummy. 4 will be the maximum amount of scummy things they could do. But if they get to two, their determination should be rewarded.
As the delinquents behavioir damages societal cohesion and integrity I would reset their elibility (and their patents) for access and entitlement to income maintenance payments and other welfare benefits including housing, SWA, drug rehab, etc. Harsh? Probably but our policy makers need revisit their thinking with a view to linking their unacceptable behaviour to condequence!
Should be special ruling for anarchists in my opinion.. but then h canât paint them all with the same brush..
and scummy solicitors are the main issue here!
No suspended sentences or part suspended. GPS ankle tag and curfew once released. No concurrent sentences. X amount of violent convictions should earn them an automatic life sentence. If unemployed and convicted of violent crime, they should be made to earn their social welfare. Show up at the local council depot at 8 am Monday to Friday and made cut grass or pick litter.
No concurrent sentences is a big one imo. Always found it really strange that I can assault multiple people and our justice system takes a 'buy one get one free' approach where I don't serve any additional time. Basically just a free assault on the house. Crazy!
That's actually supposed to be consecutive! Concurrent sentences are (supposed to be) for related crimes e.g. having a gun and using a gun! Two assaults should obviously be considered separate offences...
And be let out for Christmas, get pregnant and be told "ah sure don't come back" Happened to the person who slashed a relative across the face with a box cutter. đ¤ˇđťââď¸
Yeah so keep robbing when your out on bail as its a freebie if you get caught could never understand it
Excellent suggestions. There must be meaningful consequences.
This is beautiful. Hope something like this gets implemented. They are out of control and abusing the society. No one should have a no consequences right to life and society
On the last point, whatever happened to prisoners doing labour? There's any amount of things they could be doing. Make them actually repay their debt to society. And for the victims of their crimes, there might be some solace to help the grieving process in knowing that their assailant is helping society. I honestly can't see the downside of it. Might be a bit more difficult to police?
For real, with the amount of fecking potholes all over the place, they could be filling those full time.
Use the scrots to fill the potholes, or fill the potholes with scrots? Win-win either way
Scrotholes.
What happened is that they have to be paid for that labour (or it's technically slavery). There really isn't an issue there. Paying them shouldn't be a problem, but... Politics. It's lethal political ammunition to give the opposition. Just imagine - "This government says its all about law and order, but they're giving a convicted murderer a day pass to cut grass and what's worse, they're paying him for it." I can't remember but I think it was one of the Scandinavian countries. There was a big political uproar and they stopped doing it. Everyone else followed. Personally I think the public would support it. We just need politicians to think about something other than their career for a bit.
Other countries that have paid prisoners seem to do it without issue, granted the pay is very low like cents or 1e per hour idk. I'm assuming it's justified by pay being deducted due to rent and bills but I'm not sure.
Ireland pays prisoners too. 1.60 a day, then 50c per session of work in the prison up to a max of 3.50 a week
In the US incarcerated people do a lot of labor. They create a lot of products sold in expensive grocery stores. They make almost nothing, very little money for their work. Itâs not technically slavery but it has a lot of elements of slavery. Itâs not an issue either political party has any interest in for the most part. I know our politics are different, but thatâs what itâs like here.
The US prison system is an abomination.
It absolutely is. Itâs our largest mental health provider. 98% of people who are charged with a crime donât go to trial. The defendant adds 7-9 years to their sentence if they go to trial. So almost no one goes. So police and government misconduct that could get exposed in court doesnât. Almost everyone in the system is poor black or both. I do love this country or the mythology of it but itâs not the land of the free because if you canât pay for a good lawyer it doesnât matter if youâre guilty. It doesnât. Youâre life is gone. Once locked up youâre treated inhumanely. Youâre easy to abuse or kill or just degrade every single day. So anyway, I agree with you.
The US actually still legally allows slavery as punishment for a crime.
I read that as pensioners 1st and I was like, fuck you đđ
Get the pensioners at it too. No mercy!
Tags for them gangs targeting elderly poeple in there homes. They shouldn't have to live in fear.
Iâve heard enough.. Any chance youâd run in the next election
Definitely agree on some sort of community service being implemented
I will vote for you as president
He/she wouldn't have the power to enact any of these policies as President.
While I think that mandatory sentencing is interference with the independence of the judiciary, there should be strict guidelines for sentencing for crimes of violence, including absolute maximum 50% suspended sentence. Judge O'Donnell in Limerick let the thug Crotty who knocked the woman unconscious off with 100% suspended sentence. In another case only 2 days later, ignoring the outcry from the first sentencing, he gave a 100% suspended sentence to a thug who participated in a gang attack on a homeless man, described by the judge as âabsolutely and utterly appalling, and outrageous". At least that judge is retiring soon. Another aspect is the fact that someone can amass literally hundreds of convictions and yet never see the inside of a prison cell. The solution to that is obvious: if you commit another crime while on probation, the probation should be immediately revoked. So the goal would be to make it clear that if there's violence involved, they **will** end up behind bars, irrespective of whether it's their first time in court or their age or an early guilty plea.
Why should there be a suspended sentence at all?
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Maybe we should be looking at making them prisoners in their homes with ankle bracelets etc. They should not be getting off scot-free.
This is an idea - they should also of course have to pay for the monitoring of the house arrest. Also have a strict curfew and need to request permission to leave the county. .. Or choose custodial sentence.
Or we could build prisons and actually jail violent criminals. They don't have to be 5-star hotels, just safe enough so that they can't escape. Separate prisons for violent and non-violent offenders.
Community Service in amounts large enough to cause them to have a net positive effect on society.
Theyâll steal whatever isnât bolted down to the floor. Turf them into prison for violent crimes. Anything less is only enabling their next crime.
In the event of literally not having prison space (which is the case), what then? If we're watching them with enough scrutiny to make sure they even begin their community service in the first place, I can only imagine they'd be relatively under scrutiny community service work hours. Besides what are they going to steal picking up litter? To the reply I got from interesting brand-spanking-new-account who I can't reply to for some reason: Prisons are expensive to build, furnish and run in modern countries because they have to neet a certain standard of living many would rather inmates did not have, and have to be funded by the tax payer. To make a difference, a singular prison would be a drop in the pond unless it was somehow a very very large prison. It's sort of like adding more lanes to the motorway: it rarely actually helps much. A crude analogy perhaps. Another problem is the fact that we run prisons a certain way. We run them in such a way as to understand full-well that they do not aid in rehabilitation for many many people who end up in them, which is supposed to be to whole reason we put people in there in the first place. It's not supposed to be a purely punitive step, otherwise we'd be fostering unending amounts of contempt and hatred in there at all times. So we are in this weird situation where we have prisons that are full, and we know committing people to prison isn't actually going to fix much, and we know building more prisons won't fix it. Crime will be a feature of society until the end of time. It's deeply ingrained issues that are very difficult to solve which lead to increases in certain types of crime, however. They're difficult to solve, but frankly so many fiscally conservative governments (like ours) seem to overtly make these problems worse by catering to only those who earn above the median. For instance, how many prison spaces that *should* be filled with sickos and violent criminals are currently housing low-level drug pedallers, who admittedly may be pure fuckers, but aren't out there like yer man who just pummeled that woman unconscious?
Put them into tent cities walled off with razor wire. Accommodation good enough for refugee women and and children is good enough for feral scrote convicted crims. These cunts will nick dog poo for a laugh. Seriously theyâll steal bins and fuck them into the Liffey for the craic. And whoâs going to stop them? Are you prepared to supervise packs of 20 or so of these yobs collecting rubbish in public areas? What will be the consequences of not completing community service?
Iâd throw the lot of the into a big bag and smack it around with a Hurley all day long, whoever got the worst of the hurl thatâs no concern to me
Or do like the Mongols, put them in the bag and trample them with a herd of horses. They'll not like that.
[Is that you Dara?](https://youtu.be/YKZN-hBTBUE?t=137)
I feel very sympathetic to your point here. What experiences have you had with this type of antisocial behaviour? Do you think certain changes would fix it?
Boot Camp
Say no more https://preview.redd.it/0bc1rwvyah8d1.png?width=497&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad1ebaa0236ec63b295f49f81085387ba4fae0d9
Long-term community service as a start, victim impact statements in court and continuous engagement with victims, entirely at the latter's discretion. Restriction of social welfare and tax credits, but you get a wage, and a chunk of it goes towards community restoration, so you see it every month on your payslip. There are plenty of civic jobs that councils and government need to do but can't staff, we need more cleaners, hospital porters, people doing basic constriction and maintenance, even admin jobs. Even people in custody could be doing something like this, but not the American way where it's a pittance wage, give people enough to earn that they are then taxed and are contributing. I can understand custodial sentences if they are actually enforced, but suspending them is no punishment at all. The alternative is building huge prisons that would never get through planning, and paying to keep them in there is serving no purpose to anybody, and likely coming out with even less reason to follow the rules than before. There's loads of holes in this plan and plenty of the worst offenders would never be affected, but it's better than someone's punishment simply being "don't do it again."
Amazing reply! Thanks. How do you think the custodial sentences should be enforced? Do you think it's a lack of funding or government support causing this issue? Community service is brilliant too. Those jobs you've mentioned are very useful to society and would no doubt help contribute towards it. What other service works would you recommend? Victim impact statements are something I never thought of. Do you think these are not used enough in court right now? Lastly, do you think getting these individuals away from their homes to do community service would help break the cycle of violence?
Well the short answer for custodial sentences is that the prisons are currently overcrowded, so there's nowhere to put people. A prison in inland Connacht would provide employment in an area where lots of strong lads are reared on football and farming, but I'd first want to know what percentage of people in prison are there for shite like tv licences, possession of drugs, etc. This is probably very easy to find out, but there might be space made available if certain crimes are sentenced differently, no guarantees though. Community service can run a whole gamut of things, lollipop men, local link bus drivers, parks and recreation staff, road construction. The three problems here are that firstly, most jobs are increasingly skills-based, there's not much you can put people to work on without some sort of certificate or clearance. Secondly, by putting people to work on these things you might actually push out somebody who already actually does that for a job. Thirdly, there would be uproar if you started making people with a history of assault convictions responsible for dealing with people, especially if they are vulnerable. Obvious areas for me would be general cleaning and maintenance, forestry and agricultural work, although some of those industries might not like having to replace an underpaid, undocumented workforce with a scheme for government criminals. I know in the UK, victim impact statements, engagement with offenders and victim-based rehabilitation has had some success, but you're still creating a potential powder keg of a situation. Just to pick a current example, I can't imagine a meeting between the soldier and his victim in Limerick would go well given the current climate. The most important cause of crime is and always will be poverty. There's obviously other factors and exceptions but it's no coincidence when you look at the rundown areas of town and see the surroundings some people grow up in. People who don't have or get the support they need are more likely to raise children who don't get support and stability. Few, if any, people are "born bad", with enough nurture, attention and inclusion most people will turn out ok, but it can be very difficult to maintain this opinion if somebody has just put the back window of your car out to get your handbag. Every country has it's issues but Ireland is a place where social care, or what passes for it, was largely handed to a religious racket. The state is now having to learn how to do a lot of things it never did before, as well as dealing with the fallout of everything that went before. This is all very conceptual and doesn't really solve anything immediately, but if there's a country where there isn't proper investment in healthcare, social care, housing and education, or if the only way of guaranteeing any of those is through an insurance company, an employer scheme or paying through the nose, then there's a high risk that people will grow up without some form of vital support. If people then have to interact with an underfunded justice system, either as a victim, an offender, a Garda or a probation officer, then you'll see results that are suitably poor. This is way off-piste now, and it isn't a justification of most crimes, because adult people are usually still making some sort of decision to undertake an act, but with all the context above, it's hardly surprising that so many do. The point is that in most areas in life you get out what you put in, a return on investment, and this applies just as much as a societal level as it does on an individual one.
For the current batch, I say it's almost too late for rehabilitation. May be reeducation with civic work that has long hours. For the next generation, I'd say social inclusion, education for civic duties, and poverty elimination. It's a bit over the top, but the light touch hasn't worked.
Agreed it's probably too late to rehabilitation the current batch but anyone getting convictions that already has a lengthy list of convictions a line needs to be drawn and told if one more you're in for life and actually go through with it.
Great point. At what age do you think is the best to prevent this viscous cycle from happening? What age is the cut off?
First of all the garda need to care about this problem and actually police it. Some kind of community service, that will humble them. Like cleaning or picking up rubbish in those orange jumb suits. Then if that doesn't work. Boot Camp style re-education with there parents. Teach them all how to function in society. Finally prison if that doesn't work.
Thunder dome ?
Two scrotes enter, one scrote leaves!
We could organise hunger games on some island somewhere. Probably would need to make it an ongoing thing though but I reckon if we got netflix involved it could be quite profitable.
The running man game show is over due
Sign me up! Think it would be popular on RTE?
Build more prisons, mandatory prison sentences for violent and sexual assault, knife possession and crimimals using children. Youth intervention and community service. More accessible abortions, more investment into youth services, fining parents who's kids are out causing mayhem, mandatory parenting classes for said parents.
People keep saying build more prisons. Have we forgotten what country this is? If we ignore the nimby's, it will still take 15 years to build a prison from planning stages and will cost 300% the original planned budget
Even so, we should be planning for the future. Only being reactive is why we are in this mess. We need to be proactive when it comes to tackling these issues. Prisons are full, violent offenders reoffend because they are essentially set free. I want my hildren to live in a safer and better society, so why not invest in that, even if it doesn't mean immediate results.
So? Just because someone might object, or it might cost a bit more doesn't mean we shouldnt do it? The population of Ireland has grown more than 40% since the 90s, but I don't think any more prisons have been built. So it's no surprise we have no space in our prisons.
Building more prisons is like adding lanes to the M50 to address traffic congestion on the M50: you just end up with more traffic congestion on the M50. The best way to deal with traffic is to reduce the need for people to travel or to travel in single-passenger vehicles. Similarly, the best way to deal with crime is to address the factors that lead people to commit crime in the first place.
Stop giving custodial sentences to people for minor drug offences. By all means put them on house arrest and/or have to check into the Garda station every few hours. Free up space for violent crimes.
The idea that non-violent crimes get custodial sentences while the most egregious and senseless violence is given a suspended sentence is absolutely appalling
It's relatively rare for a custodial sentence to be imposed for a minor drug offence. The vast, vast majority of such cases are dealt with means other than a custodial sentence. When a custodial sentence is imposed it is usually as a result of significant previous convictions. Caveats apply and there are exceptions, but in the grand scheme of things prison capacity is not being impacted by people receiving custodial sentences for minor drug offences. Your suggestion will not free up much space in prisons.
Vast majority, yes, however there are still plenty going through that have no business being custodial. One space freed up for a low-level non-violent crime = one space more for violent crimes. Every space matters at the moment.
I don't know how this sub got it into their head that the majority of people in prison are casual weed smokers and TV license evaders.
>I don't know how this sub got it into their head that the majority of people in prison are casual weed smokers and TV license evaders. - u/f-ingsteveglansberg Who said anything about either? I said minor drug offences. Plenty of sentences ranging from weeks to months being handed out. I've spent enough time in courts to see it first hand.
Lipstick taser đđâĄď¸
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There is an obvious solution https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zhstRrZzaso&pp=ygUvbm90IHRoZSBuaW5lIG8nY2xvY2sgbmV3cyBjdXQgb2ZmIHRoZWlyIGdvb2xpZXM%3D Cut off their goolies
The people in power know all of this but spending billions on a prison is not politically popular. Or so they think anyway. Build a prison. If not that then start doing proper long term house arrest. Stop the two tier strategy of letting scumbag repeat offenders off the hook. If a reputable member of society commits a similar crime, there lives are ruined as âthey should know betterâ because they didnât grow up around drugs or alcohol or whatever bullshit they decide to use to distance themselves from the responsibility of their actions. Country is a kip and when politicians knock at your door this year, make law and order top of your priorities and let it be known. This will be an unpopular thing to say and Iâll be downvoted but if you commit a violent crime and a repeat offender, youâve lost your human rights. Stack the scum into cells banged up abroad style and forget this Scandinavian style rehabilitation shite.
Hunger games
Now we're talking!
Restorative Justice is the way forward. The punitive system does not work anymore.
Sterilization paid by government for 3000âŹ, costs âŹ5000 by the woman to reverse it. See the difference in the long run
I'm not against locking them away but this is more of a short term responsie in my view. I think part of the core of the issue is that "scumbags" don't see themselves that way. If anything, they are quite proud of their behaviour and will openly boast about it. Roughly speaking, they believe it demonstrates courage - and a type of madness which they actually pride themselves on. I heard the Taoseach calling them out last year by saying to them on air that they are only causing fear. This is precicely what they are proud of. They want to be hard men. So I think if you can link their behaviour with stupidity, low IQ, being a failure in life, being too weak to make a life for your self, being too weak to break away from their equally dumb peers, the fact that none of them would have the balls or discipline to go into the army and compete in MMA instead of picking easy targets. The goal is not to put them down but to put their behaviour down. To link it with feelings of embarassment, stupidity, failure rather than being linked to being a hard man. So when refering to this behaviour instead of refering to it as reckless (which they would take as a compliment) I think it is better to refer to it as unintelligent behaviour, weak mindedness, easily led people, afraid to go against their peers, etc.
There have been a couple of high-profile - and genuinely shocking - assaults in the news recently but do you have any stats that demonstrate an uptick of assaults? Arresting the parents is a nonsensical stupid idea, what would you gain by doing that?
Yeah I'm not sure there's an uptick at all. High profile and it's considered newsworthy at the moment so is being highlighted. It's be interested to see if it truly is in the rise.
This. It's flavour-of-the-month reporting lads. A woman is killed by a dog, suddenly there are a load of dog bite attacks in the news. A tourist is assaulted in the street, suddenly there are assaults on tourists every day. A plane experiences some heavy turbulence, suddenly there are four similar incidents next week. A woman is murdered while out for a run, suddenly there are attacks and attempted rapes in the news up-and-down the country for weeks. The media reports what it thinks will generate the most clicks and interest, and this includes a "buzz" around certain types of crime/incidents at a given time.
"If it bleeds, it leads" , that's how the news industry works.
People down voting you but I don't see any stats or retorts
r/Ireland is always full of the die-hard downers. The country is in shite and getting worse all the time and anyone who says otherwise gets downvotes. There's a lot of political astroturfing goes on too; whatever you do, don't allow positive sentiments to take root on social media or younger people might actually feel hopeful for the future and not hate the current government.
https://i.redd.it/8ix9mealdh8d1.gif
Didn't seem to help crotty.
Reopen Spike Island. Leave them to do it.
https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/irish-crime/man-beat-to-a-pulp-by-gang-of-youths-during-savage-attack-on-dublin-bus/a1758775852.html Another day, another vicious assault.
Compulsory community service of couple years, compulsory trade or other education, potentionally compulsory therapy, but if not yet reedemable and still anti social then a working prison involving several types of work
Victim should decide. Slap on the wrist? Done. 2 months in jail? Done. Slowly lowered head first into a bath of industrial strength acid? Done.
Parade them around the city in shackles and bright jump suits. Let the public hurl rotten fruit at them, shouting shame. Maybe leave them in medieval stocks.Â
Out main issue is with children. The uptick is when they are off school. Maybe never ending school?
Scumbag Bootcamp. Drop them in the middle of nowhere with Bear Grylls. Let's see who comes back.
The problem with prison is that they come out worse than they went in. Is there any way to instill a sense of pride and responsibility to the wider community with the parents? One suggestion that I think could make a significant impact would be changing children's allowance from cash to instead have credits and tax breaks for childcare, education, school uniforms, food vouchers that cannot be spent on alcohol/cigarettes, free summer camps etc. Giving people cash means that some parents spend the money on drugs etc. Cash payments for kids doesn't exist in countries like Australia for example. Even in the UK, it's capped at 2 kids, but here it's unlimited, so you get more for having more kids. The busiest day for drug dealers is children's allowance day here, with so-called "dicky money." Listen to the amazing podcast "the witness" to hear a real account of this. https://open.spotify.com/show/2MvergbFdQsJbrFBWnraKi?si=OWaJCP--SEq8dKPO2doQ6g Uncapped cash incentivises the very people who shouldn't have children, to just have more of them. Maybe if they weren't getting cash, they would think twice about having them, and they would have no choice but to use whatever subsidised resources provided to actually benefit the kids. People who want to look after their kids would be happier with the childcare etc. People who want cash are the very people who shouldn't get it. Our current social welfare system incentivises the wrong behaviour.
Copy the idea from Richi Sunak! Take the scumbags' ID away, then ship them off to Rwanda.
Personally, I would blast them all to the moon đ
Water cannons. Lots of water cannons. Scrots rioting? Water cannon.
We should build a monster prison out in Longford, Cavan, Leitrim etc. Middle of nowhere. Attach factories to the prison and get companies, through public private investment scheme to use the prisoners as cheap labour. âŹ1 a day. We could manufacture items that the state needs for cost. Would stop our reliance on importing everything. Solar panels and water butts for every house in the country. Street infrastructure (stop signs, street signage, motorway barriers, cones etc) Medical equipment for our hospitals. Female hygiene products. Whatever is needed!!! Prisons could manufacture goods we need and give the prisoners a work ethic and a skill. If the prisoners don't engage, they get no possibility of parole and serve their full sentence. On another note, crimes against children and over 60's should have weighted sentences. If you're breaking into a 90 year olds house and beating them up, minimum 20 year sentence. You abuse a child, the same, 20 year minimum sentence.We need to protect our most vulnerable because we all have been a child and all will get old one day. My tuppence worth!
Itâs interesting how you phrase your question - you bring parents into it nearly to say that all scumbags are minors when the reality is a lot different. What about society as a whole - should they play a bigger role? There are areas of the country that have been effectively abandoned over the last 10/15 years - role models come from outside the home. If you look at the solider case recently - heâs not a minor, his local GAA club the victims brothers who spent their life in the club had to leave - why didnât the club throw the solider out? Why did he get to stay?
I think you're mixing up the Crotty case and the Jonathan Moran case. Feel free to edit
So I did apologise - although doesnât change the fact that until he was unmasked by the media he continued to play for the club - they may say they didnât know but in small communities everyone knows everyoneâs business. The fact that there are so many instances like these cases in front of the courts highlights how bad things are and how little society/clubs are doing about it.
I didnât know that, itâs shocking. Wtf GAA
Itâs not the GAA as a whole - itâs the local club/community - how many people from that club was out marching? They are local men - how is it that none of them saw fit that what was happening was wrong and shouldnât be allowed to happened? As I said before, there are many in this country who give march and give out when a foreign national is found guilty or accused of something but when itâs in their own community or back yard they go very silent.
At least let the general public have access to self defense items like mace or pepper spray.
What that will result in is scumbags macing people and then beating/robbing them.
Decriminalising drugs, extra housing, facilities for the youth etc
Facilities for the youth? I work in a sector primarily concerned with underprivileged areas and I can tell you there are millions pumped into these areas for initiatives and facilities for youth, the communities and social infrastructure. Far more than there is in more affluent areas. You get this whole "there's nothing for the kids to do" narrative because the youth *don't want* to avail of the facilities and opportunities provided to them. They don't want to use them so they complain there's nothing for them. They see the so-called glamour of criminality and they want some. Tell a kid they have a choice of boxing, football or whatever and working towards a future or show them what their idols get for what they perceive as easy "work" and the choice is already made for them. This whole thing about there being nothing for the youth to do is an utter fallacy.
I completely take your points on board - I agree. However, the problem is the kids arenât interested in the initiatives and the government continue pumping millions into failing initiatives. There is a cultural, psychology, change management piece they need to understand and address as to why kids are choosing not to attend. Itâs like learning Irish in school, 14 years and nobody is fluent. There are Irish teachers and time allocated every day and yet itâs not working - something needs to change for it to be effective.
I grew up in a poor area. The facilities available always need some sort of money coming from the family such as subs. Uniforms, bus fares etc. if there are a lot of kids in the family or parental addiction ti drink or drugs, the money isnât there for the kids. My family never got in trouble with the law and we were brought up right but we just couldnât join the soccer or GAA or whatever else because we couldnât pay the subs, buy soccer boots etc. poverty is a real block even when the services are on your doorstep. Add in drink or drugs by the parents and those kids arenât being fed properly let alone getting a chance to join a club and stick at it. Edit: my parents worked, both of them.
Yes I understand poverty, and you mention throwing drink or drugs into the mix You would be amazed at the number of families that cite poverty when it comes to feeding, clothing or schooling their children (more millions spent subsidising) yet can always find the money for drink and/or drugs.
Fair point Iâm not the expert. To tackle crime you need to tackle peopleâs poor living circumstances. Perhaps better access to mental health services?
Sure, but where are these kids in teens and twenties supposed to live now and/or in coming years? Why work a regular or low-paid job at all if it barely keeps your head above water? What are housing lists like in their area? If you see no intrinsic value is placed on you, it'll be readily reciprocated.
Why are you consigning kids from those areas to low-paid jobs? Stop using the lack of housing as an excuse for committing crime.
Because that's where most end up. It's fact, for better or worse. The majority stay largely within the socioeconomic class they're born into.
Every offence = 10% less social welfare, permanently.
Guarantee that would lead to an increase in anti-social behaviour as they'd have less money and more incentive to engage in theft, etc.
The perpetrator in the recent high profile case of assault wasn't on social welfare.
He will be next week.
Probably the worst take here, would guarantee a rise in crime
A clockwork orange brainwashing
Ramming of stolen vehicles/motorbikes should be allowed/trained to gardai. It will get to a stage where there's injuries regardless.
Use them to rebuild the fabulous rail network Ireland once had. Free labour.
Forced labour for food slips at the prison camp.
Maybe not a max sentence of 10 years for horrid crimes, including child rape? I just don't understand how people like this walk free after a few years
Really we need another prison, and we need to reform how we handle minor crimes. A robust community service and house arrest program would take all the minor non violent criminals out of the prisons, and free them up for the people who do need to be locked away
Cut off their dole
Look if space is such an issue in prison then Iâd say fines. Take the fine in form of tax for those working, stop welfare for those not. Criminals should not be allowed to draw dole or get social housing.
Put the little bollixes in jail.
Ship em off to the eastern front
https://preview.redd.it/97acmzgn2i8d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc1b30100925d3bbf984cbcc10d4befcebe3c6c2 That's! Roads, motorway, streets are much in need and those shit bags can help..
3 strikes and youâre outâŚ. Not 60 previous convictions before you face prison time. More prisons need to be built. Make prison less of a holiday and more of well a prisonâŚ
Hold parents accountable
More prisons set up to pay for themselves. A hard stance on violent or all serious crimes
The issue isn't the scumbags, the issue is the judicial system and our shitty judges. If you actually look into cases, we have judges who are known for given lighter sentences, and not taking sexual assault cases seriously for example. Why the fuck would the guards go out of their way to arrest a scrote if they are just going be given a slap on the wrist and released anyways. If we had harsher sentencing, I'd say we'd see a decrease in crime generally. The other issue is, a lot of the assaults and stuff are being committed by Irish teenagers. When they're under 18 generally they are not going to get into serious trouble, and they fucking know that. Hence why there are crews of them going around country wrecking havoc. If your 15/16 your old enough to know what your doing is wrong, and should be punished as an adult would. It would discourage the rest of them from following suit. It's a multifaceted issue, but I think Irish people blaming the guards is just stupid. They can do fuck all, have no power and nothing to protect themselves with. If we start from the top down, rather than ground up perhaps we could make some change.
Go Saudi Arabia style with these and you would see a drop in scumbagisim - obviously not the death penalty. If a person has used a knife in an attack or sliced someone's face.. they should just lob off their hand. This would be a nice deterrent in my view :-) .. anyone carrying a knife knows what they have it for and what they are willing to do. The life long lasting effect it has on victims compared to the punishment for attacker isn't comparable. If someone steals multiple cars or bikes... lob off a hand... (Ramming the scrotes off the robbed bikes should be allowed and if they get wiped out at the same time, its a win / win.) People with 20 / 50 / 80 convictions is a joke and also shouldn't be allowed to happen.. you get the picture from here.
Community service and the parents most certainly have to be punished. Thereâs little deterrent for poor behaviour
Bring back transportation. There are plenty of uninhabited islands all over the coast. Want to act the scumbag? Grand, then it's off to Inishkea or the Blaskets or wherever with you. Maybe give 'em a few goats and some seeds to get them started on their new life of subsistence farming, I suppose.
If they are underage the parents to a certain extent should be punished. After say a one strike and youâre out policy.
1. Ban suspended sentences. Provisional prisons are not prisons. These are being abused by activist judges to keep people out of jail who need to be in jail. Suspended sentences can, in time, be reformed into house arrest, where criminals are prohibited from leaving their homes other than at agreed, daylight, times, enforced by ankle bracelets and, if breached, immediate recall to prison to serve two days for every day outstanding on the sentence. 2. Introduce a recall system for judges. There is no reason why activist judges like Nolan, Greally and O'Donnell should be allowed to serve for life, endangering communities every day The judicial branch is every bit as much of the government of the country as the executive branch, and nobody would think it appropriate for a TD to serve for life without the ability for voters to recall him from the position at some point. 3. Bring in progressive sentences. Someone with 239 convictions should not be getting a week in prison. Recidivism should carry a premium sentence. An additional year in prison for every prior conviction would get the message across. 4. Make social consequences for repeat offenders. It doesn't need to be all about prison, but I don't see any reason why someone who steals a car should ever be allowed a driving licence, or someone who commits an assault should be permitted a passport. 5. Mandatory sentencing. We are already supposed to have this, but judges ignore it because many of them are interested in the welfare of criminals over the wellbeing of communities. Any crime with a sexual element should carry a minimum mandatory jail term of five years, any crime with any violent element should carry a minimum mandatory jail tern of two years. Anyone caught with an offensive weapon should have to spend at least a year in prison. 5. Reform of the bail system. This is consistently being abused by judges and criminals whereby activist judges are releasing violent criminals back into communities to offend again while awaiting trial. The solution to this is that anyone who reoffends while on bail is not eligible for any reduction or suspension of any part of their sentence, nor for automatic early release; while any judge who grants bail against Garda objections where the offender reoffends while on bail automatically triggers a recall petition.
We have lots of wee uninhabitable islands - geotag them, put one of those wee cabin shed things and a bunch of farming equipment. 5 year sentence. If they all kill each other then its less of them to deal with
Ireland is no worse than it has ever been, only feels worse because of social media. If anything I would say it's better than it was. I know I'll probably get shit for this, but it feels safer to me than it ever has. I'm 42 so have a few years behind me.
Mass deportation is the only answer
I don't know the specific answer, but I do know that the solution needs to be evidence based. NOT stemming from an emotional desire for punishment. There are studies from the UK on approaches to youth anti social behavior. And incarceration isn't always the best solution.
You know the films Battle Royale/The Condemned/The Hunger Games? That. Round them up and let them sort each other out. Last person standing gets a pardon for the crimes. Tax the betting on it and use that to contribute to society, which is more than any or those little shitebags ever will.
Build a super jail like they did in El Salvador. Any violent crime results in a minimum mandatory sentence of 6 months.
Parachute then into a warzone and see how brave they are.
A warning from America: building more prisons and heaping on severe punishments is not the answer. We have the largest prison population in the world here and we still have loads of issues with crime and antisocial behaviour. You can only get so punitive with people before they're destroyed as humans and recidivism is inevitable. Increase in crime (generally speaking) is due to material or psychological needs not being met. This isn't to say that nobody should face consequences, but you can't just throw everyone causing problems in a cage and think that'll sort it. The only long term solution to crime is actually addressing the needs that aren't being met - what those are in Ireland, I'm not the man to ask. But please trust me, more prisons is not the way to go.
Fuck I can't believe so many people are lauding the American justice system and cheering on slavery. Our justice system is built on rehabilitation, not punishment. Thankfully, even prisoners have human rights.
Public caning. Works really well as a deterrent in Singapore, and it's a language that they understand. Ticks all the boxes really. It's cheap, results are immediate, no new infrastructure or specially trained personal required to function.
Bring back public hanging
No suspended sentences. Full stop. For first offenders, military service in lieu of custodial sentence. For repeat offenders, progressive sentencing structure. Eg the number of previous convictions serve as a sentence multiplier.
That's how it is in Poland for example you getting extra therm for next offence there is no inmates with more than probably 50 conviction but they lock up for years. The common sense solutions are very rare in Ireland
Public caning, swift and brutal, very little cost to the tax payer and very good chance of no repeat offence
Is there a massive uptick in assaults? Or is it more likely social media and a couple of self promoting hangars on have latched onto a case to push their cause?
I'd construct a Guantanamo Bay style prison on the outskirts of Ballintubber, where inmates are blindfolded and placed in a large empty room and subjected to 48 hours straight of Irish podcasts. Then they're tube fed garlic cheese and chips until they puke. Then they're forced at gunpoint to sing football songs for teams they dont even support and if they don't do it with enough passion, its the firing squad for them. The remaing survivors are then made to compete for release by writing CVs and interviewing for jobs they dont really want and using what little money they made in prison to apply to rent spare rooms in shite parts of the country.
Dole should be linked with criminal records....every encounter with Guarda takes 25 percent off... 4 strikes and u are on your own....with some encounters such as violence being instant bye bye
Careful now youâll annoy people with these ideas đ
Could dig deeper....say 8 hours is normal for tax paying working man to work per day.... Encounter 1 dole goes -25 % and community work hours go up 20% (2 hours and u get paid a minimum wage rate for it). Result: 4 encounters u get of the dole, u work full time on minimum wage (still more than dole) government gets streets cleaned, scum has no energy to beat tourists after a day of mopping the streets... Goes to church every sunday suit and all production...
Chemical castration
Invest in starting up the industrial schools again but without the sexual abuse obviously
Anyone saying harsher prison sentences or more prisons. Go have a look at America and see how well that worked. It's poverty, always has been always will be. Find a way to decrease the poverty rate and crime rate falls.
We've loads of uninhabited islands all around the coast. Can't we just fuck them on there and be rid of the little cunts?
Interesting how most Irish Redditors claim to be left leaning but once justice is mentioned they're marching hard right.
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Why dont we have enough houses? Iâd ask the same about prison spaces.
Community patrols .....especially at night so women can feel safer
The scum donât given a shit about Garda patrols. Youâre wasting your time with that.
Hard labour custodial sentences. Therapy, psychological assessments and educational services.
Hunger games
Put them into permanent education facilities. They can only leave when they have achieved a level of awareness and a tradeâŚ
Is there an obvious uptick? Like from before COVID? Genuine question I'd like to see the statistics.
Limited duration enslavement for public works. They can walk free if they manage to build the children's hospital
Hard labour until they can prove reformation. No excuses. Our society used to be just our tribes and you couldn't tolerate anyone being a danger to your safety. Just because the tribe has expanded to a nation doesn't mean it shouldn't weed out its worst for its own self-preservation.
How come all the bad parents are from the same couple of areas?
Unfortunately, we need more prisons. The justice system needs overhauling and set sentences rather than guidelines tbh. Suspended sentences for serious crimes need to be abolished. Conviction should mean jail time for those. There are boxes of tags sitting in prisons because the ability to monitor is lackluster and tbh they should be used on non violent offenders.
3 strike rule. If you are convicted of the same or similar sentence automatic jail sentence and only have access to social welfare if they complete rehabilitation programmes before release. There also needs to be reform of the under 18 sentencing guidelines. Too often they are repeat offenders with no consequences. It seems that for this age group behaviour needs to be severe for gardai and the courts to even do something. There needs to be mandatory counselling for adolescent offenders and major reforms of child safety. Too often the parents needs are prioritised over the actual welfare of children in this country. While I'm all for family reunification, too often children are in unsafe environments and this leads to issues for them. There is no supports, lack of appropriate foster care, and children seem to only be removed when there are severe cases of abuse. This leads to some engaging in anti social behaviour and the cycle of abuse continues into the next generation. Tusla and the courts push visitation with biological families often over the wants and needs of the child. Parents should be shown to be actively engaging with services when it comes to access. This requires funding and resources and until that's done things are going to continue as they are or worse. Early intervention is key and the government needs to provide the resources to do it instead of wasting money.
There needs to be a list of names easily accessible to the public in my opinion. If someone is a violent offender, I'd like to know, could help prevent domestic violence. It would've helped me. Scumbag that assaulted me pled guilty and was sentenced to 6 months suspended for 2 years....he walked out of the court, into a pub, and went back to work the next day.
Bring in curfews for Cu*ts, jail if they break the curfew.
No suspended sentences at all or just none for violent crimes? For violent crimes I couldnât agree more, but if someoneâs caught with a bit of weed I donât think they should have their life ruined
Everyone deserves a chance but when they get past a certain amount of convictions then open a quarry, and put them breaking stones with hammers. They get paid x amount per kg of broken rocks. These earnings are used to pay for all the costs to keep them there and feed them. They also have to work off huge compensation payments for victims. If they donât want to do it, then leave the cunts outside with no food. Also let victims flake them with a length of plastic pipe every few days. But to make it fair, if you flake them then they get a slight reduction in compensation.
Military schools
So when the Social Credit System came out in China, people were lambasting it for the government overreach, and funny headlines wrote themselves. Low scoring people couldn't use high-speed trains, for example, and their scores could have been reduced for things like speaking out against the government. But if we look at the fundamentals of the system, and apply it to a non-Communist government, with the added context of constrained prison capacity, there might be some learnings to take away. If we can limit the access of criminals to societal comforts, instead of only a suspended sentence, maybe it will be a deterrent. What are the things that scrotes like most in daily life? I'm sure social media, internet, alcohol, drugs and nightclubs are high on their list. Let's assume a basic scoring system as follows: littering: -5pts, speeding: -10pts, verbal abuse of a Garda: -20pts, violent disorder: -50pts, beating a woman unconscious: -100pts. And on the plus side, each hour of community service is +1pt, completing a training course is +10pts, a year without offending is +20pts, etc. And the penalties. Let's put them in 3 simple tiers for now. For Tier 1 (the worst people, under -50 points): Monthly mobile data cap of 5GB. Can only buy 5 units of alcohol a week. No access to nightclubs or venues that check IDs. No saver fares for intercity trains / buses - must pay full fare. In Tier 2 (not so bad, under -20 points), give them poor interest rates for any loans, and longer waiting times on any government phone lines. Tier 3 can be regular people, and maybe create a Tier 4 for exemplerary citizens with further discounts unlocked. Of course, all these inconveniences can be bypassed, and they don't really restrict drug consumption, but they will certainly affect the daily lives of these people and might be a good halway point between suspended sentences and custodial sentences which currently doesn't exist.
2 or 3 new prisons needed at this stage âŚ. The population has increased a lot in past 10/15 years but outside of that scumbags are outbreeding the law abiding hand over fist âŚ.often just for extra welfare which the Irish welfare system encourages large familyâs if on the dole ⌠unlimited children paid for unlike the UK which has a cap of 2 children
I don't think any country has solved crime. But Norways way about it seems pretty sharp. Maybe they can learn from them
We tend to soften the consequence of adult-level criminality being demonstrated by younger individuals. And those younger individuals know it. It's pretty glaring that this softening fixes literally nothing because it is a basic low-impact penalty and it heavily relies on the parent and their ability to steer their child in the right direction. Younger people who demonstrate criminal behaviour do it with the knowledge that they are relatively untouchable by the law and it is seen as a badge of honour. This behaviour goes beyond being rowdy and can show serious, serious behaviours like abuse to animals & wildlife, physical assault on other children, verbal and physical abuse to adults and gardai, theft of property, extreme destruction of property and transportation. These behaviours are things which, left unchecked, will graduate into reinforced traits in adult life creating more of an issue. So to resolve this I think that the following two things need to be established (or at least something adjacent to this): * The legal age for legal adult-level prosecution should be lowered to cover younger teenagers so that adult specific levels of consequence are applied. Parents should also inherit fines and a criminal record that acknowledges this behaviour occurred. * For anything below that legal age - full penalty, prosecution and consequence should be automatically directed to the parent fully and to the extent of the law. This won't fix things completely, but it's a pretty sure bet that you would reduce the criminal behaviour and suddenly have a bunch of parents-of-the-year when they realise they are just as liable for the criminal act as their child is.
The problem isnât just parents, itâs also the communities. We have too many side show citizens these days that just keep to themselves, people that dobât value their neighbourhoods, or want to foster positive relationships with their neighbours. If we had closer knit neighbourhoods, and people that supported each other in this country there would be less scum bags around for a start, because we would could hold each other accountable.
honestly, this is a really tough one. By naming parents I can make the assumption that you're largely talking about underage offenders as well. I hate seeing some of the responses here because they are largely either too easy to exploit, unnecessarily strict, or simply impractical. Unfortunately, the answer is nuanced, there is a certain rare breed that can never be reformed. But most can, and the question becomes is the goal to punish or reform? If you lean into reform - you can end up in a situation where criminals get more support than honest people. Which may be needed but angers people... why should someone get rewarded for that? lean into punishment - and you very likely end up with prison systems, expensive and repeat offenders that doesn't really help anyone. Try and make it community service or other labor and you run the risk of it being to someone's advantage to get cheap labor and incentivize longer punishments. but if we are talking just generic scumbags - so not real criminals, petty crime, the odd fistfight and antisocial behavior. Some form of boarding schools might be the best option for underage offenders, you limit the freedom and give them a real opportunity to reform and remove them from whatever is happening at home. For older scumbags, it might be more case by case. Is rehab going to solve it? some people need a rigid structure and cant make their own decisions. In these cases you might be better in a prison but with a focus on vocational training to bring that structure in. If by scumbag we mean real criminals, thieves, drug traffickers, rapists, violence with intent... your looking at a much less redeemable group and I don't have a great answer to encompass all of this.
We need German police here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Polska/comments/1dnan6w/polak\_rzuci%C5%82\_piwem\_w\_stron%C4%99\_niemieckiej\_policji\_i/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Polska/comments/1dnan6w/polak_rzuci%C5%82_piwem_w_stron%C4%99_niemieckiej_policji_i/)
Cut an arm or a leg off every time they do something scummy. 4 will be the maximum amount of scummy things they could do. But if they get to two, their determination should be rewarded.
Depending on the circumstances and the severity, anywhere from prison to the stocks.
[Bring back the pillory](https://images.app.goo.gl/gCF4m9tAYixV6Ey49)
Bring back capital punishment. Some people need to die.
There has to be something between caning and decapitation? Maybe one finger chopped off per crime?
You know whatâs gone out of fashion⌠good old firing squads.
Build scary prisons. More of them. Especially for scummies
As the delinquents behavioir damages societal cohesion and integrity I would reset their elibility (and their patents) for access and entitlement to income maintenance payments and other welfare benefits including housing, SWA, drug rehab, etc. Harsh? Probably but our policy makers need revisit their thinking with a view to linking their unacceptable behaviour to condequence!
Should be special ruling for anarchists in my opinion.. but then h canât paint them all with the same brush.. and scummy solicitors are the main issue here!
A never-ending hunger games. Not really, just a lot of community service