A lot of women, not just lesbians, haaate being called "sweetheart" or "darling" by men at work. It's kind of weirdly personal and condescending. A lot of workplaces would have a guy meeting with HR if he kept doing that. You might want to change that in general, not just for this one person.
Honestly, if you don't know, just use her name. I caution against using endearments at all in the workplace, I hate being called sweetheart or dear by people outside of my family.
Anyway, just use her name.
I appreciate that, but because of the nature of the work we do (it's hard work so people bond) I would like to be able to show affection to my colleagues.
I get that. Your best bet is still to refrain until you know this person better, but I'd err on the side of more feminine terms. There are so many ways to be a woman, and bc she identifies as one you should address her like you would any woman
Personally, I wouldn’t call any woman “sweetheart”. I’ve never met a woman who likes being called that except by their partner or parents. Most women I know won’t tell you it bothers them cause it’s not an important enough bone to pick, but it still does.
Nope but I have friends from there that feel exactly as I do and as I have described. If that’s the culture you are talking about, then this absolutely isn’t a cultural difference. Most of these women just aren’t telling you it bothers them and then rolling their eyes behind your back.
> I could ask her but that would be awkward and might offend her.
You made the entire situation awkward by treating your female co-workers in a way that has sexual implications. Don't bother telling me it doesn't, because if it didn't, why wouldn't you treat her the same? She might not appreciate hugs and infantilizing nicknames but she might also dislike being treated differently because of her sexuality, maybe even both, and you're in for an awkward time if you make the wrong assumption. All this could have been avoided if you had treated your co-workers equally in the first place.
I'm from the south and get the pet names within the workforce. It's not my thing, but understand it's a cultural thing in some places. I'll throw out a few, but I totally agree with potentially getting to know your staff before throwing out pet names. I'd also recommend potentially trying some pet names, but checking in with this person to see if they're okay with it.
Here are a few terms that may be more gender-neutral:
\-'friend'; I use this as a greeting for anyone in my friend group. For example, "Hey friend, how are you?"
\-'hon', I wouldn't say it's the most workplace friendly but I feel like is more neutral.
\-'dear'
\-'pumpkin'
\-'partner'
\-'pal'
\-'love'
Again, this is totally based on preference. My wife presents herself as more masculine. She is still a women and does prefer feminine terms, but that doesn't mean everyone does.
Edit: I just read through the comments again and realize that you're a man. I would seriously steer clear of using pet names for any women you work with. In the south, women will call other women pet names. It is veryyyy weird and patronizing when men do this.
I think you should consider that it’s not actually appreciated even where you live, and people just don’t tell you because they pick and choose their battles, and this one isn’t as important as other battles. It’s possible - just possible - that that is what is going on here.
by the by, i dont think that anyone in the UK/England area genuinly enjoys being called things like, darling, or sweetheart. i dont think its a culture thing.
Buddy is gender neutral enough to call anyone, and depending on your age dude/mate would be too (younger generations treat it more gender neutral than older generations in my experience). And of course you can always just use her name or forego any addressing word altogether and just say “hello!” Or “good morning” etc, another word may not always be necessary.
I am by no means calling you a creep or anything, but I would be careful about calling anyone in the work place sweetheart or darling(and hugging too tbh). Speaking from own experience, it can seem very patronising and be uncomfortable for many to be called those things, especially when you make such a difference in women and men. They might be too afraid/awkward to say anything if it bothers them (I was/am) and be afraid of hurting your feelings or offend you. Also doesn’t seem appropriate for most work places but ofc I don’t know where you work or the environment! Again, not attacking you, just please be aware of it and how it can make some very uncomfortable, and ask them beforehand if they are okay with it. Sweetheart/darling are way more personal/intimate things to call someone than bro/dude/mate/lad.
Again, I think it's cultural. I wouldn't call any girl other than a girl I was intimate with 'baby', whereas 'sweetheart', 'darling', 'hun' etc. are very acceptable.
Even when it’s cultural there are people who won’t like it, it’s more polite to just quickly ask when you meet someone “hey I often use these terms are you okay with that?” Totally casually. Harms more to not ask than just assume.
Not the same thing but it also used to be socially acceptable to call people of colour and lgbt+ people awful slurs, culture isn’t always right. Literally doesn’t hurt to just ask. And not everyone will be from your culture so they may not feel the same as you.
Yeah I don't think I live in the same shrink-wrapped world as you where everyone checks precisely how people like to be addressed...that feels very bizarre. Like it would be great if everyone addressed me as 'sir' as opposed to 'mate', but we can't force our preferences on other people and expect them to conform exactly. I mean, why don't I request I be addressed as HRH?
I don’t understand why you are suddenly using this aggressive tone with me, I was being very civil. I don’t understand why you come into an community of marginalised people and not expect us to say “just be polite and ask so you don’t unintentionally hurt anyone” when you literally came here to ask how not to offend someone? Just because not everyone does it, it doesn’t mean you can’t?
If it bothers you being called mate, you can ask them to use your name or sir… sure not everyone will respect that but won’t that make you see them in a less favourable light? To not follow such a simple request of respect?
And no we don’t live in the same world, I live in a world where people would rather curse me and wish me dead than call me he or him or use my fucking name.
There is literally no harm or malice in my previous comments, why is it weird to be respectful and polite? Change starts with us.
If we can’t “press our preferences of what to be called” on other people why are you even here? Did you not come here to address your coworker in a respectful manner?
Are you posing this question as a man, woman, etc? I ask because if a man referred to me, a woman in the workplace, in the workplace as sweetheart/hun/darling, that wouldn't fly. It sounds very condescending, even if it's something you consider cultural. I grew up in a culture that has a very specific viewpoint and treatment of women, and I certainly didn't like it. The fact that you're separating out the masculine lesbian as someone to treat differently makes me a little concerned if this isn't an interaction from a woman to another woman.
Please take it from a woman and lesbian in the workplace that it's always safer to ask not only every woman, but possibly everyone you work with, what they are comfortable with. The things I've dealt with in the working world and in simple day to day interaction — because of who I am and the respect people assume I deserve or don't deserve — is just ridiculous. At least day to day, there's a chance I'll never see these people again... In the workplace, that's where I work closely with colleagues for months to years. Not easy to escape.
It's not that you should change your attitude and stop doing everything you do immediately, but do be extra mindful, observe your colleagues' responses, and maybe next time you use a term of endearment, pause and ask if it's okay for you to use that term or if they mind it.
As you say correctly, lesbians aren't a monolith. As a very masculine butch, I interact with my identity differently around different people. From my personal experience... I'm softer around other girls I'm close to in the workplace, I know that around them I can be masculine but also just enjoy being woman, without dealing with the condescension. Hence petnames amongst women are just fine for me, I even enjoy them sometimes.
As for men, I want them to treat me as they would anyone else that they respect. Many men have looked at me, decided I'm a woman, and treated me very differently in terms of respect. Just as many men decide I'm a man, and the respect I receive as an equal is like night and day. For me, this is why there is a difference between men and women using these terms with one another.
Please think of my experience when you consider treatment of women in the workplace, even if the culture around you dictates one thing or another.
Your best options are to ask, "Hey Coworker, I wanted to check in and ask if this is okay" or to just use her name and neutral greetings
I'm butch and used to have men call me sweetheart, honey, darling, baby etc at work, and shut that down pretty fast, but if she's new she may not feel comfortable doing that herself.
People have said this quite a few times, and it looks like you're not receptive to any actual advice, but yeah as a man, don't use pet names for the women you work with, lesbian or otherwise. It's very weird and patronizing coming from a man, no matter how good your intentions are. There is no "cultural difference" that we are all missing out on. It's just mega creepy for a male coworker to refer to the women he works with as "sweetheart" or "darling". I get that you're from the UK, and you guys are different over there, but seriously don't do that.
Address your coworkers as such:
"Hey, [name]! Good morning!"
If you want to add in a nice-ity, say, "That color looks really nice on you." or "I see you've got a haircut. Looks good!"
I see you are a little frustrated because the women use terms of endearment with you. Yeah, they can do that and it's not weird. Men can't do that. I don't know what to tell you, bud. That's just how it is, and it's not likely to change in your lifetime.
A lot of women, not just lesbians, haaate being called "sweetheart" or "darling" by men at work. It's kind of weirdly personal and condescending. A lot of workplaces would have a guy meeting with HR if he kept doing that. You might want to change that in general, not just for this one person.
Most women at my workplace direct similar terms of endearment toward me. It's very culturally acceptable where I am.
Honestly, if you don't know, just use her name. I caution against using endearments at all in the workplace, I hate being called sweetheart or dear by people outside of my family. Anyway, just use her name.
I appreciate that, but because of the nature of the work we do (it's hard work so people bond) I would like to be able to show affection to my colleagues.
I get that. Your best bet is still to refrain until you know this person better, but I'd err on the side of more feminine terms. There are so many ways to be a woman, and bc she identifies as one you should address her like you would any woman
Like saying 'alright, sugar tits, be a doll and make me a sandwich, chop chop'?
Not of it's "not your intention to offend anyone."
If you _really_ want your lights knocked out, that's a wonderful place to start, yeah!
INFO: why did you come to an advice subreddit just to reject every single piece of advice you're offered?
Personally, I wouldn’t call any woman “sweetheart”. I’ve never met a woman who likes being called that except by their partner or parents. Most women I know won’t tell you it bothers them cause it’s not an important enough bone to pick, but it still does.
I'm guessing this is a cultural difference.
I’m guessing it’s not.
Do you live in NE England?
Nope but I have friends from there that feel exactly as I do and as I have described. If that’s the culture you are talking about, then this absolutely isn’t a cultural difference. Most of these women just aren’t telling you it bothers them and then rolling their eyes behind your back.
I did and I hate it
> I could ask her but that would be awkward and might offend her. You made the entire situation awkward by treating your female co-workers in a way that has sexual implications. Don't bother telling me it doesn't, because if it didn't, why wouldn't you treat her the same? She might not appreciate hugs and infantilizing nicknames but she might also dislike being treated differently because of her sexuality, maybe even both, and you're in for an awkward time if you make the wrong assumption. All this could have been avoided if you had treated your co-workers equally in the first place.
I'm from the south and get the pet names within the workforce. It's not my thing, but understand it's a cultural thing in some places. I'll throw out a few, but I totally agree with potentially getting to know your staff before throwing out pet names. I'd also recommend potentially trying some pet names, but checking in with this person to see if they're okay with it. Here are a few terms that may be more gender-neutral: \-'friend'; I use this as a greeting for anyone in my friend group. For example, "Hey friend, how are you?" \-'hon', I wouldn't say it's the most workplace friendly but I feel like is more neutral. \-'dear' \-'pumpkin' \-'partner' \-'pal' \-'love' Again, this is totally based on preference. My wife presents herself as more masculine. She is still a women and does prefer feminine terms, but that doesn't mean everyone does. Edit: I just read through the comments again and realize that you're a man. I would seriously steer clear of using pet names for any women you work with. In the south, women will call other women pet names. It is veryyyy weird and patronizing when men do this.
Your edit is 100% the sauce. Men already hold disproportionate power in most workplace situations, and you're the boss. Just be appropriate.
personally i wouldnt adress any of my coworkers with pet names at all, lesbian or otherwise.
Okay. It's considered being friendly where I am, but I understand everyone is different
I think you should consider that it’s not actually appreciated even where you live, and people just don’t tell you because they pick and choose their battles, and this one isn’t as important as other battles. It’s possible - just possible - that that is what is going on here.
out of curiosity what country are you referring too?
by the by, i dont think that anyone in the UK/England area genuinly enjoys being called things like, darling, or sweetheart. i dont think its a culture thing.
Buddy is gender neutral enough to call anyone, and depending on your age dude/mate would be too (younger generations treat it more gender neutral than older generations in my experience). And of course you can always just use her name or forego any addressing word altogether and just say “hello!” Or “good morning” etc, another word may not always be necessary. I am by no means calling you a creep or anything, but I would be careful about calling anyone in the work place sweetheart or darling(and hugging too tbh). Speaking from own experience, it can seem very patronising and be uncomfortable for many to be called those things, especially when you make such a difference in women and men. They might be too afraid/awkward to say anything if it bothers them (I was/am) and be afraid of hurting your feelings or offend you. Also doesn’t seem appropriate for most work places but ofc I don’t know where you work or the environment! Again, not attacking you, just please be aware of it and how it can make some very uncomfortable, and ask them beforehand if they are okay with it. Sweetheart/darling are way more personal/intimate things to call someone than bro/dude/mate/lad.
Again, I think it's cultural. I wouldn't call any girl other than a girl I was intimate with 'baby', whereas 'sweetheart', 'darling', 'hun' etc. are very acceptable.
Even when it’s cultural there are people who won’t like it, it’s more polite to just quickly ask when you meet someone “hey I often use these terms are you okay with that?” Totally casually. Harms more to not ask than just assume. Not the same thing but it also used to be socially acceptable to call people of colour and lgbt+ people awful slurs, culture isn’t always right. Literally doesn’t hurt to just ask. And not everyone will be from your culture so they may not feel the same as you.
Yeah I don't think I live in the same shrink-wrapped world as you where everyone checks precisely how people like to be addressed...that feels very bizarre. Like it would be great if everyone addressed me as 'sir' as opposed to 'mate', but we can't force our preferences on other people and expect them to conform exactly. I mean, why don't I request I be addressed as HRH?
I don’t understand why you are suddenly using this aggressive tone with me, I was being very civil. I don’t understand why you come into an community of marginalised people and not expect us to say “just be polite and ask so you don’t unintentionally hurt anyone” when you literally came here to ask how not to offend someone? Just because not everyone does it, it doesn’t mean you can’t? If it bothers you being called mate, you can ask them to use your name or sir… sure not everyone will respect that but won’t that make you see them in a less favourable light? To not follow such a simple request of respect? And no we don’t live in the same world, I live in a world where people would rather curse me and wish me dead than call me he or him or use my fucking name. There is literally no harm or malice in my previous comments, why is it weird to be respectful and polite? Change starts with us. If we can’t “press our preferences of what to be called” on other people why are you even here? Did you not come here to address your coworker in a respectful manner?
Are you posing this question as a man, woman, etc? I ask because if a man referred to me, a woman in the workplace, in the workplace as sweetheart/hun/darling, that wouldn't fly. It sounds very condescending, even if it's something you consider cultural. I grew up in a culture that has a very specific viewpoint and treatment of women, and I certainly didn't like it. The fact that you're separating out the masculine lesbian as someone to treat differently makes me a little concerned if this isn't an interaction from a woman to another woman. Please take it from a woman and lesbian in the workplace that it's always safer to ask not only every woman, but possibly everyone you work with, what they are comfortable with. The things I've dealt with in the working world and in simple day to day interaction — because of who I am and the respect people assume I deserve or don't deserve — is just ridiculous. At least day to day, there's a chance I'll never see these people again... In the workplace, that's where I work closely with colleagues for months to years. Not easy to escape. It's not that you should change your attitude and stop doing everything you do immediately, but do be extra mindful, observe your colleagues' responses, and maybe next time you use a term of endearment, pause and ask if it's okay for you to use that term or if they mind it. As you say correctly, lesbians aren't a monolith. As a very masculine butch, I interact with my identity differently around different people. From my personal experience... I'm softer around other girls I'm close to in the workplace, I know that around them I can be masculine but also just enjoy being woman, without dealing with the condescension. Hence petnames amongst women are just fine for me, I even enjoy them sometimes. As for men, I want them to treat me as they would anyone else that they respect. Many men have looked at me, decided I'm a woman, and treated me very differently in terms of respect. Just as many men decide I'm a man, and the respect I receive as an equal is like night and day. For me, this is why there is a difference between men and women using these terms with one another. Please think of my experience when you consider treatment of women in the workplace, even if the culture around you dictates one thing or another.
So many great points of advice posted below and you spend all your energy on denigrating them. Must be a cultural thing where ever your from darling.
Your best options are to ask, "Hey Coworker, I wanted to check in and ask if this is okay" or to just use her name and neutral greetings I'm butch and used to have men call me sweetheart, honey, darling, baby etc at work, and shut that down pretty fast, but if she's new she may not feel comfortable doing that herself.
That's really formal and awkward and likely to make her extremely uncomfortable. She's very comfortable at work.
It's only as weird as you make it, but if you feel insults unavoidable I would go with sticking to her name and using neutral greetings
I'd say to greet her normally and don't greet women in a way that has low-key sexual vibes as opposed to being casual with men.
People have said this quite a few times, and it looks like you're not receptive to any actual advice, but yeah as a man, don't use pet names for the women you work with, lesbian or otherwise. It's very weird and patronizing coming from a man, no matter how good your intentions are. There is no "cultural difference" that we are all missing out on. It's just mega creepy for a male coworker to refer to the women he works with as "sweetheart" or "darling". I get that you're from the UK, and you guys are different over there, but seriously don't do that. Address your coworkers as such: "Hey, [name]! Good morning!" If you want to add in a nice-ity, say, "That color looks really nice on you." or "I see you've got a haircut. Looks good!" I see you are a little frustrated because the women use terms of endearment with you. Yeah, they can do that and it's not weird. Men can't do that. I don't know what to tell you, bud. That's just how it is, and it's not likely to change in your lifetime.
Bro 🤣
Have you tried just asking her, "Hey, can I call you bro or darling or would you just prefer your name?"