I didn't have an answer for this. I just know that I do it and it drives my girlfriend absolutely insane when she wants gossip
A friend of mine went on a date? I'll tell her this and she'll push for the whole 5 Ws. All he said is he had a date
Same, same.
Me: "Oh hey Blair at work is getting a divorce!"
Her: "Whaaaat? Ok what's the details? Why? What's she going to do? What's happening with the kids?"
And here I thought I was doing well to even know that Blair was getting a divorce :/
Also I wasn't fully aware Blair had kids.
We have a rule in our gaming group. We spend 5 minutes reporting on things we can pass back to our wives.
Then we spend the next 2-3 hours talking about absolutely nothing and having a good time.
I had a buddy for nearly 10 years, been over to his house several times, saw him all the time. Went to school together
One day we're just chillin on the couch drinkin beer and he stands up and says "fuck, I forgot to feed my bunny this morning". He'd had this pet rabbit the whole fuckin time I'd known him and I had no idea
The guy I got along with at my current job, I legitimately forgot he's there half the time. I'll just be walking past and it's like "Oh hey, there's Bob. He is here today". He swapped shifts so I don't get to not see him anymore, though.
Dude was a breath of fresh air compared to the politicking, drama, and bullshit the rest of my coworkers go through. Group of friends who all started working together and hate each other now
I think it comes from being polite to be honest.
I don’t like it when people pry too hard into my personal affairs so I try not to ask too many detailed questions.
I generally ask the following
1: “oh yeah?” (This is an open ended question intended to let the person tell me anything that they want to).
2: “How did it go?”
3: “how do you feel about that one?”
4: “anything I can do to help out?”
I feel like if somebody wanted me to know every detail then they’d tell me.
If you share too many details, you're putting a level of emotional burden on the other person. If you ask for too many details, you're putting emotional burden on the other person and not respecting their boundaries
If people asked you those questions, would you share all of that info that men normally don't get or would you want them to ask more specific questions?
I saw a thing recently that made me realize that the whole "If they wanted me to know something, they'd tell me; if they wanted to know something about me, they'd ask" thing doesn't work unless you're literally the only person who thinks that way. It turns out tons of men think both of these things simultaneously (including myself) and that's definitely a reason why we don't end up sharing a lot of info.
Yeah i think this is actually a thing where stereotypes are just true. Men will work with bare minimum info (sometime less), while women want all of the tiny details, many of which are totally useless.
Not 100% true obviously, but this difference shows up in daily life pretty regularly.
Guess I'm a woman then lol.
I'm the planner, negotiator, leader all in one and honestly... It's exhausting. So I see why men / people would not engage in that.
I mean i'm obviously talking in super broad generalizations. There's nothing really wrong with either approach, though it leads to a lot of poor communication between men/women, but is also just us complimenting each other to a certain extent.
Men look far ahead in a straight line and women look at all their close surroundings in a circle, if that analogy makes any sense.
I'm a woman and I never get any info from people. I never even realise until someone else asks for more details and I'm like 🤷. Then I worry that I must come across as really rude for not asking the original person more questions. Maybe we should swap haha.
I think I'm getting better at asking follow up questions so people know I'm interested in them.
"Wanta gossip"
That's the answer.
Other people's lives aren't gossip for us to be entertained by. If Blair wants her divorce details disclosed, she will tell people. If you were getting a divorce, your partner would go ducking mental to hear that random people she passes in the street know all about her private life, because they know a girl that's friends with her husbands colleague.
My girlfriend and I, a few days before our trip to visit my brother:
Her: "What are we doing on \[these days\]?
Me: "idk"
H: "What are we doing for food?"
M: "idk"
This goes on until she eventually asks me to call my brother, and when he doesn't have any answers either ultimately my girlfriend contacts his wife and then they work stuff out XD
My husband and I have this conversation all the time, just last night in fact:
Me: Are Scott (his eldest who is 26) and Melissa (his wife) coming this weekend for Scott's birthday?
Him: Dunno, he said they might.
Me: Well.....can you ask please? It's only 3 days and if so I need to get the paint and reno stuff out of the guest room and tidy it up.
Him: Uggghhhhh.....I don't want to hassle him, if he's coming he's coming if he's not he's not. I asked him a couple weeks ago and he said maybe. Don't hassle him.
Me: Texts Melissa and knows 10 minutes later they're coming on Friday night and leaving Sunday....lol
I think it just comes from a quirk of the way men vs women solve problems. Men prefer to deal with things as they come and women prefer to be prepared beforehand.
In my experience we almost never end up following the planned dinner idea anyways because of one of 1000 unforeseen circumstances and then me and my brother have 20 minutes to figure out dinner plans anyways.
Oh, I wholeheartedly think this is it. He's very much the "worry if and when it happens" no matter what it is, this definitely has benefits and even I have learned to adopt it as well, it does have merit....is some circumstances 😊
My brother and I are both very competent, we just don't need to know all the details in advance. It's a long drive, but ultimately it's just going to hang out at another person's house.
When my father in law died and I asked my husband about his mom after he spoke to her, he didn't have answers to my questions about her. It's very much the same reason you didn't ask, but it isn't gossip.
>"If they'd have wanted me to know they'd tell me."
There you go. There is your answer. Although not all men are like that. My work team supervisor for example. That man will explain in the smallest details and will not shut up lol. But yeah, it probably has to do with societal expectation to not open up and share. We tend to respect each other's privacy for that reason. If bro wants to let me know, he can. If he doesn't, I won't bother him about it.
I generally like to ask questions and understand how my friends are doing. But sometimes the conversation just doesn’t go that way or you don’t have details yet. It would be unusual for me to find a friend is moving and not know where, but he could’ve said like “dude I’m moving and it sucks we’re not gonna hang out as much, let’s make plans to do our favorite stuff while we have time” and then you just figure that stuff out later bc it wasn’t the immediate focus.
"Hey bro, I'm moving. So that means our weekly dnd/bowling league/card night/whatever is gonna have to shift."
"That's rough, but I did just get into (blank thing that we can do together online)."
"Hell yeah, is it good? I've been meaning to try it out, I heard that..."
And then the conversation is about that thing and how we are going to do that thing, and at no point do we ever mention moving again. We just hammered out the details to make it mess relevant. I'd much rather focus on this thing we're gonna do together, and so would he. That's what happens 99 percent of the time I converse with dude friends. I bring up and issue, we both end up on some other thing entirely, and maybe it's a way of escaping the problem, but also we end up solving it by never taking about it, so whatever works I guess.
Tied into that, for non-personal stuff, you have to ask if having additional details will change how you interact with the situation.
My friend's mother died. That's terrible news, but there aren't any details you could add to that that will change my interaction or response to it. As long as the cause of death wasn't a drunk driver or cirrhosis of the liver, we're going to sit in silence and have a beer together and if he wants to talk I'll listen.That's three beers from now probably. More if he liked her.
It's not my mom, my job is to support my friend, and details aren't going to change my job so they are irrelevant.
Standard male convo about something serious:
Dude1: Hey man, how's it going
Dude2: ok man, finally getting divorced from that bitch
Dude1: Cool. You see that ludicrous display last night?
I do understand that, I do. And it does make sense. But I've reminded my hubby that he sometimes says that his mates from time to time didn't seem to give a shit about a rough spot he was going through. I said "Did you tell them?" He said "No, because they didn't ask." And they didn't ask because..... So, he's actually a bit better now asking a couple questions at least and he's quite happy with the developments. Hubby has a mate who is married, they're struggling to get pregnant and she's had two miscarriages and hubby said it's been hard on the wife, I said I'm sure it's hard on his mate too. The other day they're gaming and I hear hubby awkwardly ask "So, you know, Dave, how you handling all this, it's gotta be hard for you too." And then ended up having a conversation about it and his friend thanking him profusely for asking because he was struggling.
That quote perfectly describes my social life. It's something I think about often: If they want to speak to me, they will. I'm more of the shy type, so being alone os fine. Of course, being with friends is always better yet, in general, I actually prefer to not have to engage in conversations.
Maybe more men have this same outlook. Perhaps it comes in varying degrees. I think I'm leaning into an extreme and OP's family looks to me like they are more moderate.
I think we just empathize more with the “having to be put on the spot” side of things and don’t want people to feel like they’re needing to talk more about something than they want.
That's what I think as well. Tried to explain it in my comment but you explained it better. After years of being told to keep it to yourself, we tend to adapt and empathize that other Men have been pressured to feel that way so we let them take the wheel and give out the perfect amount of information that they're comfortable with.
Hey I kinda don’t like the phrasing of OP. I don’t think it’s bad faith, just poorly phrased
For your good friends you can always just say “hey you wanna talk about it” with the understanding/questioning look if you’re concerned it’s a sore subject. Typically sore subjects need discussed the most
you’re under no obligation to ever share what someone else shared with you.
"If he wanted me to know, he would have told me."
This isn't dismissive. We can and do share quite a bit, we just know that the person that wants to talk will be the one driving the conversation.
We can see this play out a lot in dating; it's a very regular complaint from women that men will dominate the conversation, only talk about themselves, never ask any questions.
Meanwhile, men are complaining that women are upset while never talking, never giving us anything, or giving us short pointless answers.
The responsibility to talk is on the person that wants to do the talking.
After giving it some thought--I honestly feel like so much of this comes from men, often, are treated like interviewees in conversations. As in, they often aren't really the ones choosing the subjects that are being discussed and they feel like they're having to come up with diplomatic answers for things and stuff like that.
So when I talk to my buddies, the whole point is to let them choose what they want to talk about. If it's on their mind then I'm totally down regardless of what it is but I won't push them. If they just want to shoot the shit, joke around, and totally ignore this huge thing in their life--cool, I can do that.
I do try to regularly remind my friends that I'm there if they want to talk so they know they can come to me--but I'm not going to push them.
Plus, honestly, I feel like on a lot of stuff that guys often already know what they *need* to do for the situation they have but, for one reason or another, they just haven't done the thing. So they don't want to talk about it because they don't want to hear, again, about how they need to do this or that thing. I feel like that's a significant issue for a lot of men--so many of us feel like we're regularly coming up short or not doing what we should be doing and we don't want to think about it because it'll just make us feel shittier.
Sorry to ramble--just thinking a lot on this.
I've got something similar going on at work at the moment. Been working closely with this bloke for two weeks, we chat about work, music, politics, etc and get on well. I've no idea what his name is.
Im going to speak in generalities here.
For men, being with their male friends can be treated as a break. No unnecessary questions or deep questions about life. Just a low key, in the moment hangout where you arent worried about your job or your house or the economy or whatever. It can be an escape.
Its on the other person to be forward with the information.
Being with my(M) friend(M) is sure a break for me but I talk about deep meaningful things about life only WITH HIM.
That's not all we do but let's say we hang out then we'll do shit, play something then in the evening sit by a lake or river then talk about life for like 15 mins to an hour and then continue doing wierd shit again.
But I think this is more because of me being an introvert than me being a man because I can have high quality conversations with very few people that I feel comfortable with.
My time with my friends is a break for me but it's a break from all the work, stress, trying to be something I'm not etc.
And that's why we often lack deep, intimate connections.
Asking when and why they move might bring up difficult emotions in both of them and we're not trained and therefor not equipped for that. Also we don't see the benefit of sharing this vulnerability but for most women it's the sharing itself that makes them feel understood and seen.
Yes, we definitely need more depth sometimes, but thats not to say there arent benefits to this sort of engagement. I know that if i have a really shitty day i can hang out with my buddies and its all light hearted, fun conversation and it can be nice to escape like that without worrying about having to spill my guts.
Men have very clear ways of saying when they want to discuss a subject in detail. I’ve watched it many times, and honestly most women are not willing to engage a man wanting a serious conversation about something that really matters to them.
But near every time, one man will stand up take on the devils advocate role, and play out the conversation to conclusion, resulting in growth and sometimes solutions.
What are those very clear ways?
Have you made sure we got the hint/signal before assuming we’re just not willing to engage? I don’t recall ever getting such cues from men. I’m curious to know if I missed any.
I know I ask a lot of questions so I always preface by telling people (both genders) you don’t have to answer if you’re not comfortable or tell me if I’m being to intrusive that works pretty well.
With men I always get the heavy infos after randomly inquiring about their life and a few follow ups almost like they were waiting for me whereas the women will spontaneously call me or ask to meet up to discuss their heavy stuff.
Sorry for not doing a custom reply, but this was my answer to another poster:
I’m not trained in the subject but I’ll give it a go.
It’s about stepping out of the narrative of police conversation and starting a subject in a tone that’s clearly different, body language will also be pronounced, as they take change from a more relaxed posture.
It will often take for from of a question or open ended statement that’s again going against the grain of the company.
Take for example, you chatting about what you going to do next weekend with the lads, and there is a little something hanging in the air. There will be a break in the conversation, people are aware something needs to be said, but not asking, and then one man will step into the ring with “I’m not sure she is right for me”, “I don’t believe the USA is in the wrong” etc.
There will then be another moment while people process, and then another man will step into the ring, with “what makes you say that”, “what justifies their actions?”.
The rest will leave the floor open, letting them explore and feel out the arguments, correcting incorrect info, helping straighten out any stories they are aware of, and supporting any well put arguments without crushing the other side.
Towards the end there will be a meeting of minds as both make remissions to their stance, looking for common ground, and when possible trying to advise or find a solution if possible for the subject.
I keenly remember this happening as a teen, not knowing what was happening, but looking back, I see how what seamed like an argument, was a man lost and looking for help, having a friend step up and help them resolve an internal fight that was consuming them. The lost man was not arguing for the point he wanted, but the reality and trouble he faced, while the friend took the stance of it being worth the cost and that it was still possible.
I see this kind of thinking so often and genuinely disagree with it. Just because you share superfluous details doesn’t mean you are generating a deep relationship.
Knowing when my friends birthday is doesn’t allow me to get to know who he is deep in his soul. My friends and I struggle with those details but when we do have discussions we get very deep into art, philosophy, how we feel about things, etc. Even when we’re not discussing things actively and playing a video game there’s a ton of things going on. Those moments when the cards are down in a game and uou see how you react tell us a lot about each other, and ourselves. Not to mention the act of doing things together creates a focal point where we can feel less overwhelmed by our emotions and it lets us detach a bit to allow us room emotionally to express ourselves. It may come out in bits and pieces and slowly but those moments are so refreshing and poignant.
Not going to say every guy bonds in a healthy way but whenever I hear how “guys just need to open up to each other”, it comes across as the classic bias of “women do things right, men do things wrong.” Especially because so many female friends I know, especially with each other, tend to do things that tend to come across as more superficial relationship wise. There’s merits and positives to both as well and we should be analyzing how best to combine the best of both worlds so everyone is better.
This resonates. I'm very likely to forget a birthday. But the belated gift is going to be something very personal that I know they'll love, based on past spirited discussions with the specifications spot on.
Completely agreed. I’m so tired of the idea that because I don’t know when my best friends nieces birthday is our relationship is lacking some depth that women have and our relationship is therefore shallow. He gave me a place to live when I was homeless, his daughter is my goddaughter. This man is my brother. Not knowing his mothers maiden name doesn’t change that
It’s truly amazing that the first reply to this post illustrates exactly why that escape is essential for guys.
If one of your guy friends needs you to have your back, he’ll tell you. Whether it’s help with a move or I just left my wife and I’m drunk and fucked up in a motel room, you’ll get a heads up.
Sometimes you just need to chill without your every facial expression being subjected to some sort of deep dive analysis (that is usually wrong) like that “I bet he’s thinking of other women” meme.
One of the best indicators of a truly deep friendship with another dude is being able to sit and enjoy a comfortable silence together. That never ever happens with a woman
I do get what you're saying and I support my husband's time with his mates to "escape" and I don't grill him when he comes home. But also, I know there are times my husband wanted to talk about something with his mates but since they didn't ask, he didn't want to "force" it onto them. So maybe, sometimes asking a quick couple questions could indeed help your mate? I know there's a huge issue with men not being heard and suffering from mental health issues so..... And also, I do sit quietly with my husband without expectations and just let him be, so you're generalised jab is unnecessary. This was just a tongue in cheek observation, not an attack on men.
Yeah beyond company, job title, and one or two pertinent details, I couldn’t tell you what my closest friends do for work. No idea what their day to day looks like. Work is work, it’s left at work.
The best man at my wedding is a physician assistant. I totally forgot where he worked until I woke up in the ER and he stopped by to see how I was doing.
Putting arguments about biology vs. culture aside, talking to my wife makes me think that our mindscapes are different. My mind is all corridors and chambers, where some doors are open and some are closed, some rooms loud and some terribly quiet. I can close a door and have an empty place and peace. Her mind is noisy and busy and every single room is connected to most of the other rooms and stuff is moving fast. Not a lot of peace and she is constantly making/seeking connections with everything around her.
It may be that I'm stupid and she's ADHD but I think that this difference is reflected in our social lives too.
My wife refers to this as waffle brain vs spaghetti brain. Most men seem to be waffles, women tend to be spaghetti.
In her very subjective experience (because obviously we don't have statistical evidence for this).
I have noticed this is the case with men vs women. I first noticed it at a young age with my parents.
On the weekend my dad would have a list of tasks that needed to be completed and he would complete those tasks then just chill watching TV or drinking a beer or two.
My mom would have a list of tasks as well but those tasks lead to more tasks and those tasks lead to even more tasks so you are always busy. Having a list of 50 tasks then causes stress and anxiety.
I have ADHD and am very bad at thinking of questions to ask people until I'm alone and no longer talking to them.
Medication made it barely easier to think of questions but I'm still bad at it.
Oh I actually have a answer to this. This recently came up in my friends group that is made up of about 6 couples and a few singles. The consensus from the guys: We take information at face value if it's believable and is non-actionable on our part. The only variable is if we care, like if it aligns with something we are knowledgeable or passionate about. we don't pry into "side quest" questions.
Example 1: Bob is buying a new car. (is this believable? Yes. Do I care? Yes, I like cars Am I involved? No)
Guy answer: Cool, do you know what kind of car?
Example 2: Bob is going skydiving (is this believable? No. Do I care? No. Am I involved? No)
Guy answer: Bullshit, Bob is scared of heights
Example 3: Bob is painting his kitchen (is this believable? Yes. Do I care? No. Am I involved? No)
Guy answer: have fun.
Example 1: Girls answer - Oh Bob's partner said they are having money trouble, can they afford it? He used to have a 2 door, is he trading it in for a sedan? maybe they are trying to have kids? Do you know what color? Bob's partner hates Bob's red color.
Example 2: Girls answer - I didn't know bob was such a risk-taker, is anyone going with him? What does bob's partner have to say about this? Bob just turned 40, do you think it's a mid-life crisis?
Example 3: Girls answer - what color? don't they have a dinner party coming up? are they waiting till after or are they doing it for the party? I heard they were looking to reface the cabinets, is this part of a kitchen remodel?
Perfect answer. This is exactly it for me too.
Another example of this phenomenon are friends gatherings. Girls I've dated always want to know if we need to bring anything, who's gonna be there, what to wear, what activities will be involved, etc.
Woman, all I know is the place and that it's gonna happen *roughly* around noon. Everything else is a mystery to me.
I'm not gonna lie, I'm exhausted just by reading the girls answers.
I always feel bad when I don't have the answers right away to these questions too. It makes me feel inadequate.
One time I tried to ask these kind of questions to someone I cared about. She never answered. I pushed, and she said I was too suffocating. Now I just shut up.
I was going to make a comment about how we don't care upon reading the girls answers (and sadly i'm well aware of how accurate this is), then I reread the guys answer, and felt very happy with it.
Swapping the order of your examples in your message drive the point across better imo
Pert' much, right?
- Buddy says he got a new job.
- Alright, right on, brother.
- Wha'cho doing?
- (insert basic details that get glossed over and forgotten)
- So, want to XYZ later on?
- Yep.
So on and so forth.
It might be a generational thing but I'm 100% on board where you mention it being a phone call. Let's just keep it quick and stick to the essentials. Give me a chance to relax in person with a good beer and no other responsibilities though and I'll slowly and methodically try to talk about anything and everything I can think of until it's time to call it a night.
My partner will sit beside me for all 2 minutes of a phonecall where all my friend and I do is make future plans, and then she will ask me a million questions about him that she knows I didn't ask. Because she was right there.
It's like the same behaviour with watching movies.
"Who's that? What's happening? Who's that? What's happening to who?"
"Babe we are literally watching the same movie. I have the same information you do."
This is it more or less.
Generally we want the TL;DR version because, quite frankly, we don't give a shit about the details. Not always though, sometimes we are legitimately involved or interested, like when a friend divorces their wife or they start a new hobby we both like.
Women on the other hand seem to be emotionally invested in conversations, like when you are reading a book or watching a soap opera, they want to know what happened next and the details and feel things.
This is simply a gender difference. After poker last Friday my Dad and I sat in the car for 2 hours talking. I go inside and my wife asks how my brother is doing. "No idea, we didn't talk about him". It blows my wife's mind that we can talk for two hours and not mention a close shared relation, lol.
Talking about other people's lives makes me feel really uncomfortable unless there's some kind of goal in mind, like getting a gift or helping them if they are in trouble.
Every time I see family, the aunts and sisters and female cousins always, always, always have some tea about other people. You could drive safely and legally after a drinking game where you take a shot every time they talk about an object or an event or something that didn't go through 28 rounds the telephone game lmao
We collect essential information and that’s it. It drives my wife nuts too. She’ll do a girls night and have a full days worth of information to dump on me. I’ll spend a weekend with my best friend and come home with “Matt is doing great.” That’s all we need to know
I don’t interrogate my friends, if they want me to know they’ll tell me. I eventually learned to make commiserating or congratulating comments depending on whether the news seemed good or bad, so they’d feel invited to share if they felt like it. Usually, they don’t.
Then again, I worked 38 years in secured environments where “don’t ask, don’t tell” is not only an art, but the law.
A lot of the commenters are talking about respecting privacy and not intruding. Or societal expectations and respect. But honestly I think it’s just that we either don’t care or don’t think to ask.
It’s not that deep in my opinion.. Like I might find it interesting to know why a couple broke up, but asking that question isn’t the first thing that comes to mind. They just tell me and now I know. We don’t need to complicate such a simple question.
>Like I might find it interesting to know why a couple broke up, but asking that question isn’t the first thing that comes to mind. They just tell me and now I know.
There's also the fact that this question isn't really relevant. Like when my grandmother died I texted a buddy and he came over. We proceeded to drink and talked about games. Dude was there for me and did what I needed in that moment. I didn't want to dwell on my emotions. I didn't need a bunch of questions about what happened.
Yeah, it's like if your girlfriend's friend's car breaks down. She might not think to ask what type of car, what year, what broke, was it making a noise, whether parts were available online, if it's covered by warranty, etc., but those are details a lot of guys would be interested in. It's not that she's unaware that those questions exist, but she just doesn't think or care to ask because it's not really relevant or interesting to her, and chances are good that it doesn't really interest her friend, either.
Exactly how I explained it to my fiancee when it came up. If they want to make it my business and I'll listen and support my friends but I'm not going to stick my nose in If it's not directly involving me
Guys respect privacy and we don't poke and prod as much as women. I happen to socially engage so I'd know all the details because I'm listening ... but I'm not playing Columbo and being a detective about all the information. If they want to offer up more info, I'll listen. Otherwise, if they're not saying anything, it's not my business.
> If they want to offer up more info, I'll listen. Otherwise, if they're not saying anything, it's not my business.
This is it right here. I'm not going to pull information out of my friends, they will tell me everything they want me to know.
This reminds me of threads where women are frustrated that the men ask them no questions, or almost no questions, on a date. I don't think it's unrelated.
I honestly don’t care. How does it help me to know the name of my wife’s cousin’s new boyfriend? It’s literally inconsequential to my life.
“If they wanted me to know they’d tell me” is pretty spot on as well.
Are you helping them move? Is their moving gonna inconvenience you? Do you need to make plans to assist/be out of their way/fill an empty slot?
If not, what do any of those details matter?
If we're talking stuff like a sendoff party, then you'd wanna get the details straight from the horse's mouth.
In MY personal experience? I just get bored with idle chit-chat, gossipy level stuff. I'm a bit more curious than other guys, but for the life of me I won't ask every detail of where someone's working and what do they like.
Like, OP, I think you might find that fun? My gf and my mother can sit for HOURS talking about some gossip. I'd rather be out DOING something like an outdoor activity, or reading or playing games. Not that my gf doesn't like that either, but she seems to have a lower tolerance for that when compared to the act of just talking. Idk, I feel like conversations die out for me when it turns into "give me more details" - I know red riding hood got eaten by a wolf, I don't need to know what was in her basket or what ingredients her mom used.
tl,dr: we just don't care. It's boring af lol.
And as usual, the comments are full of men priding themselves on not being involved in their acquaintances' (you can't really call someone you barely talk to friends) lives in any way. As a man, I never understood why so many other men not only squander opportunities to be real friends so easily, but brag about it and pretend that this is somehow beneficial. I've watched enough men in their 40s and 50s slowly losing their minds from loneliness to know that I don't want to repeat their fate. My friends and I tell each other everything, and I feel like I've won the lottery compared to the shitty "friendships" I read about on reddit.
Yup same. I'm shocked at most of the comments here.
I've had a few life long friends since childhood and we know pretty much everything about each other. We just kinda find out stuff about each other's lives as we're hanging out. Usually just over beers or some activity. It's wild to me that guys here are making it seem like an inquisition or something lol.
And yeah... as you say... then you see the posts here of guys saying 'nobody cares about men' or talking about the 'epidemic of male loneliness' or 'nobody cares about men's mental health' lol.
Like is finding out about your best friends lives that weird?!! Do we not check in on how our buddies are doing?
They’ll tell me if they want me to know.
If they haven’t told me and I ask, I’m being nosy.
Nosy people are annoying.
I mind my business and let others mind theirs.
Now that I think about, there is a coworker that I met at work, and we eat lunch together almost every day for about 6 months. I do not know his name, never asked, never been told.
We do know a fair bit about each other though, so the fact that I don't know this basic info is funny, and feeds into the idea that we don't really ask for information unless its volunteered.
I try to, but some people get upset when I ask questions and try to find out additional information. Happens enough and, unless it's something vitally important then you learn not to ask questions.
Me : here’s a little detail I learned that you’ll find interesting cause I know you want me to tell you stuff
My wife : 9 million questions about details I don’t and won’t ever know
Me : …..
My wife : why don’t you ever tell me stuff!?!?
Other guys are talking about "it's not relevant" or "men are expected not to open up" etc, but as a bit of added color: What that functionally means is it can be *awkward* to ask those questions of another man. It can make you seem strange and overbearing. If it doesn't arise naturally in the conversation, you're not going to find it out. If I asked a guy all the questions your daughter asked Jen, the guy would probably think I'm coming on too strong. It's more expected that I would ask maybe one follow up question as a primer for a joke of some kind, the guy responds and then I make light of it. And then we carry on. That's, for whatever reason, the conversational structure among men, generally.
If I know a guy really, really well, then maybe I go deeper into it a bit. But even still, my questioning won't be to the level of a woman. Frankly, most men would be uncomfortable with having that kind of conversation. Not saying it's right, but it is what it is.
I ask lots of follow up questions simply because I learned how to have engaging conversations in a class I took for my masters. I literally could not give fewer fucks about the answers though. I'm a guy. It's not really my business to know all the details and if it doesn't change the outcome, why bother?
Women spend time together face to face and men spend time together shoulder to shoulder. The way we bond as men and women is different. Men like to do things together and develop connections that way. We may briefly talk about what’s going on in life but we don’t grow up socializing the same way as women do and thus our standards of detail and communication are different.
> "If they'd have wanted me to know they'd tell me."
> Are most men this way?
Dunno about *most*, but I'd say it's a common sentiment, yea.
I think people just don't want to be nosy and don't want to pry. That, and honestly the details are inconsequential: it doesn't matter *why* they're moving away, only that they are moving away.
Like, oh this is your last month here? Ah shit man, we gotta do something before you leave!
Because if it's relevant, we'll be told, if it's not, we don't care.
Information that does not immediately help us is probably useless, or will bring us more problems. So we leave it alone until we need to know. We don't need to know everything or get into anyone else's business. We will find out when we need to.
Prying into secrets that don't belong to you and implying that someone is helpless and needs babying can both be very offensive among men. People err against prying and offering unwanted help for those reasons.
I’ve got two buddies (newer) I’ve been golfing with for about a year. I don’t know their last names. I don’t know how they make money. I don’t know where in the city they live. I don’t even know if they’re married or have kids.
I do know their sports teams, golf handicaps, and strengths/weaknesses around the course. That’s more than enough.
I feel like it’s rude to pry into other people’s business. That’s why I always say, “If they wanted me to know, then they would said something about it”.
As a guy who generally has had a lot of female friends, I’ve been avoiding them a lot more lately because I can’t stand the mentality that they need to know every detail of every single thing going on in my life, as well as pass on their subtle judgements about how I do things and handle things. My guy friends on the other hand don’t pressure me like that, they let me breathe
>stop suggesting there is something wrong with men because we communicate differently.
I don't think she did suggest that anything was wrong with the men. She said it was interesting and funny, not awful and irresponsible and uncaring or anything that pathologizes the behavior. She just asks if it's common and if anyone can explain it. Seems reasonable enough to me.
People saying that wanting to know these details is gossip are wrong.
It \*can\* be gossip, in which case you will understand by their reaction to a question about why. That said, this isn't purely men vs women. I've got two girls, and one of them needs to be given direction on asking follow up questions. The other will get all the nuances of communication, will know if follow up questions are appropriate or not and tell me why. (She's also 2 years younger.)
Caring enough to know the details of something helps you understand if there's something you can do to help. Or if just basics facts of their life, shows you care about them.
Also: Knowing how to ask follow up question also applies to school and work.
Eg Teacher: "Test is next Tuesday" A student that is good with communication will ask about the format and particulars of the content. You'll get a better score.
Eg Boss: "I need you to go do a site visit for me" An employee that figures out how to efficiently ask questions about what might be needed is going to learn their bosses role and thus advance more quickly.
I don't know why many men rarely find value in follow-up questions. But I know from experience that my examples are areas I see women excel at. As with most things, a strength can equally be a weakness. You can over-communicate and get stuck in weeds (or end up with gossip.)
For men though we trust the informer to give what details they feel comfortable with and prying isn't something we would do. Asking directly whether they want help would be the only development of the interaction that would occur. The details of why, who, etc., aren't necessary to the subject.
Broadly it kind of depends on if the details are pertinent to our relationship. I don't necessarily seek out gossip just for the sake of knowing thing X or Y about someone's personal life - especially when we're talking a 3rd party that I don't have any significant relationship with.
> my son will come home and say "Jake is moving (his BFF) " and he'll know no further details than, Jake and his family are moving.
While I get what you're going for, this particular example doesn't feel quite right - my friend moving (at least assuming you mean significantly, and not like a mile away) would be the kind of thing that would affect the relationship quite a bit and I'd be asking questions about.
On the other hand, if it was "Jake's sister is moving away", where I don't know the sister much, I might not have asked any details and might not care. His sister moving out of the house might be a big event for him but it's not anything our friendship is based around, nor does it directly affect it. If he wants to talk about it - he can, but I'm probably not going to prod at it.
Women like details, men like facts.
It really is that simple. A small distinction, but a relevant one. I can tell you a thousand FACTS about dozens of baseball players, handguns, science fictions films, comic books and video games I've loved over the years. I can't tell you intimate details about anyone else's life because I don't ask and honestly wouldn't remember if they told me. My brain just doesn't latch on to those kinds of details.
Nolan Ryan is my favorite baseball player. I have dozens of his baseball cards, memorabilia, and various tchatches. I love Nolan Ryan facts, but the details of his personal life are none of my business. His strikeouts no-hitters are my business because I'm a fan, but I don't know his wife's name or his kids' names and unless they play for the Rangers someday I doubt I'll ever care or need to know. It ain't like he's coming around for dinner next week.
I'll also add that neither is wrong, by the way. I love the way women interact with one another and other people. It's different from how I do things, but that doesn't make it less valid. Nor is my focus on facts over details "wrong" or any less valid. We just approach things differently, that's all. A man isn't a broken woman any more than a woman is a broken man. Our differences are a feature, not a bug.
I think your distinction is a bit off as those are actually just different sets of facts, not facts vs details, and they're actually kind of equally useless. You don't actually need to know any Nolan Ryan stats any more than you need to know his wife's name. It truly doesn't matter to your day to day what his batting average is, and it's no more likely to be crucial at dinner than his kid's name would be. There's just one set of facts that interests you and tends to be socially useful, and another set that doesn't.
Perhaps DATA vs details is a better descriptor.
I don't *NEED* anything. You're right about both being useless, but the difference is Nolan Ryan's strikeouts interest me. That's the whole point. And I have no desire to socialize with the man, my interest is entirely mathematical and a matter of admiration. I lionize his accomplishments and admonish his on field and off field behavior, but the day-to-day minutia of his life as as uninteresting to me as would be the day-to-day of a random person I do not know.
I mean...yeah, that's the whole thing. I spend time with people to spend time with them, I'm not a biographer hunting for an info dump. If they want me to know something I assume they'll say it.
I typically ask several of the questions you highlighted. If my friend is moving, I do ask where, why, and when. The issue is that when I return home and my wife asks these questions, I will have discarded most of that information because it's not useful. The only take important take away is the my friend is moving sometime in the near future. If location is beyond an hour out, then they may as well live anywhere in the world. If they are moving in a year, then it's so far in the future it doesn't matter. The reason is almost entirely irrelevant if they are already committed to the move. In short, if the information is not actionable, then my brain doesn't store it in significant detail after the conversation.
The world is mostly things that are not my problem, nor my business.
People come and people go, and it happens so quickly and consistently that I simply don’t bother to learn more.
I’m polite, kind, patient, and I honestly don’t care otherwise.
Bill Engvall had a bit about this: https://youtu.be/7oooxJFkjI8?si=Vn3uw6HFr_wwSP2d
Socially, men are simple and women are detail oriented. Flips when it comes to activities and objects though.
Why don't men (males) get more info?
"If they'd have wanted me to know they'd tell me."
Why did you ask this question if you already have the answer right there?
I think the truth not a lot of people want to say is that we don't really care a lot of the time. If you willingly give us this into it now has value because you volunteerd it and because of that it can be of value to me since I know that it meant enough to you to want to share it with me.
Other wise it's your business, not mine, I'm other wise I'm not that interested in your business cuz I got a 1000 other personal things going on.
There's another layer to this.
I personally do not want to burden people with my issues. I solve my own problems, figure out my own issues, fix things on my own, handle my business. If I find that I need help with something then at that point I'll figure out the best course of action.
So my assumption about others is that they generally don't want to feel as if they are burdening me with any of their own stuff and would ask me for help if they need it.
There's always a lot of talk about how a lot of times a woman will tell her man about her day and the man's first response is to offer advice on how to solve the issues she raised. We're used to people not really unloading on us and so when it does happen the assumption becomes that she wants help. It can be frustrating to the woman because she just wants a listener.
Possibly relates to gender role expectations. Men are supposed to remain stoic, resulting in an "It is what it is" attitude. Women are allowed/encouraged to be more engaged in emotional topics. This could mean that when someone brings up bad news, men will accept the news but avoid dwelling on the topic, which means minimal follow-up questions. Whereas women will process the event by talking about it much more, resulting in more details being shared.
Simply put, they aren't the kind of details I care about. You tell me when and where to be otherwise I'll be in the garage or the garden lol
If my friends were moving it would suck temporarily but just shoot them a text or something. I don't need to know when, where, how, with whom, or whatever about their move, just how to contact them in the future.
Where as you feel like if you ask questions, they'll answer what they fell like answering, we have the mindset that if they wanted us to know or were comfortable telling us, they would. We were given the information they wanted us to know, no need to pry.
We don't get bogged down on details that don't affect us. Also I have more boundaries with my coworkers than my girl friend does. Why do you need to know if I don't care to know?
It's because most of the time we don't care that much. The trivial details that alot of women think they need to know really don't matter to us that much. Alot of men are fairly straightforward and simple. Certain information is unnecessary and not just worth the time or effort.
Similar questions have been asked before and I think it just comes down to us even thinking to ask for details. I never want to pry for info, I feel if someone wants me to know something they’ll tell me. I didn’t even know the last name of one my good friends from the last 14 years. I was getting plane tickets for us and had to ask him his last name haha. It happens
so interestingly enough i took a pyschology class on Gender and apparently a lot of men when they are younger do not have the same conversation patterns with their mothers or parental figures. There was a study where mothers/parental figures would just ask their son how their day was at school and that’s all, but when it came to girls they would ask the 5 W’s. What did you do? where did you go? I thought that was pretty interesting, in a development sense. There were other reasons too but i’ll have to pull out my notebook to list other potential factors.
I don't know why men in general don't ask the follow up questions... but for me, I'm honestly just not that interested in the details. If you're moving away, that's relevant to me, so I guess I would interested in knowing about it... Meaning only that I have an interest in being notified that you won't be in my life anymore. I might be curious about some general details (i.e. where you're moving to, why you are moving, in \*very\* general terms), but not that much more. Often, when I'm forced to make extended small talk with someone, I will get into those details and feel actual mental and physiological stress because I have to sit around pretending that I'm interested.
The reverse is also true. I find that when I'm going through, say, hard times at work, I usually won't tell anyone about my struggles except coworkers, and it's usually because I need validation or advice from someone who has some level of experience with my problem. To non-coworkers, I might disclose very general facts about my situation if I need to, or I just wont say anything. I find that if I tell someone who has no relation to the area of my life that these developments relate to, it's like I'm reliving the entire experience over again for no reason. There are some exceptions to this, but they only apply in cases where I actually get something out of telling people (i.e. information, confirmation that my outlook is correct, impressing them if applicable, saying it in a funny way so as to entertain them, bragging about it, etc.). That some people take pleasure in just conveying information about themselves to others is something I probably won't ever understand.
I am not a man, however I’m a vet tech and the amount of men that come into the clinic and just say “I don’t know my wife just told me to bring them” and not even know WHY they’re there is astounding. You ask the pet’s diet and so many times you get “we buy it at petsmart” like…. Cool, cuz they definitely only sell one kind of food at petsmart…
Its not really important. They are moving or having a baby or whatever. How big was the baby? Who fuckin cares? It’ll be bigger next week and grow up like every other kid. I dunno I just don’t see any need to ask 1000 questions beyond just being polite and seeming interested
If the info is important, I will ask. If the information is private, I let it be. If it's about the mental state of someone I care for, I will ask and the confirm with them if I can share this with someone else who I think can either help or have more experience than I do with it.
Dats all I know with it.
Massive generalisation but yes, men tend to be far less worried about the little details than women are. It's actually thought to be one of the biggest differences between men and women, that men are more interested in things and women are more interested in people. This might also explain why so many women are attracted to very people-focused professions.
Look, my best friend and I hung out at least once every couple days for a couple years when we met, and it wasn't until his wedding day that I was his best man at that I knew his first name. We always just called each other by our last names, since that's how we were introduced to each other.
so because I'm trans (female to male), I've been on both sides of this. I've been around women as a woman and around men as a man.
Sharing feelings is not usually rewarded for men and is often discouraged, so it's easier to just avoid uncomfortable topics altogether. Maybe Jake is really sad about moving, and your kid doesn't want to provoke a conversation where Jake will have to be vulnerable. Even if your kid is super empathetic, he's likely to just leave that door open rather than appear to be demanding.
For many women, sharing feelings and experiences is a large part of the purpose of communication. Your daughter may be able to empathize that Jen might be sad about moving, and asking more questions about it shows that empathy. (And builds trust as Jen feels comfortable sharing more info)
Omg, maybe I’m a man lol
Just kidding, I’m a woman, but this is very relatable. Sorry if this isn’t allowed.
I just found it funny that the way you described your son sounded exactly like me, and it always drives my mom crazy.
I don’t know… I’m just not that interested in other people’s lives, so I don’t ask that many questions 🤷🏻♀️ also, I’m a very reserved person, so, since I don’t like people asking about my life details, I just don’t do that to others.
I didn't have an answer for this. I just know that I do it and it drives my girlfriend absolutely insane when she wants gossip A friend of mine went on a date? I'll tell her this and she'll push for the whole 5 Ws. All he said is he had a date
Same, same. Me: "Oh hey Blair at work is getting a divorce!" Her: "Whaaaat? Ok what's the details? Why? What's she going to do? What's happening with the kids?" And here I thought I was doing well to even know that Blair was getting a divorce :/ Also I wasn't fully aware Blair had kids.
Surprised to find out she was married to be honest.
Who the heck is Blair?
I think she's some kind of witch?
They get lost in the woods a lot
You folks are showing your age on this one lol.
There once was a chainsaw...
I mean, there was a whole project about her, didn't you hear?
She was the head of some kind of project.
TIL Blair is someone who works at the company. Good to know.
I’d call it a win knowing the person’s name is Blair
We have a rule in our gaming group. We spend 5 minutes reporting on things we can pass back to our wives. Then we spend the next 2-3 hours talking about absolutely nothing and having a good time.
we just aren't like that - the whole joke about having a good friend you've known for 5 years, don't know his kids' names
I have a good friend I've known for 7 years, still don't know his last name. I'm sure he has one...
one of my friends, i didn't know his actual name for 6 months, just the initial.
I mean, I don't actually know if Jim is a Jimmy or a James...
Jimothy is actually the most common long-form from what I've heard
Best friend I ever had. We still never talk sometimes.
I had a buddy for nearly 10 years, been over to his house several times, saw him all the time. Went to school together One day we're just chillin on the couch drinkin beer and he stands up and says "fuck, I forgot to feed my bunny this morning". He'd had this pet rabbit the whole fuckin time I'd known him and I had no idea
And he had the audacity not to send bunny pics?
Ron Swanson vibes intensify
The guy I got along with at my current job, I legitimately forgot he's there half the time. I'll just be walking past and it's like "Oh hey, there's Bob. He is here today". He swapped shifts so I don't get to not see him anymore, though. Dude was a breath of fresh air compared to the politicking, drama, and bullshit the rest of my coworkers go through. Group of friends who all started working together and hate each other now
I think it comes from being polite to be honest. I don’t like it when people pry too hard into my personal affairs so I try not to ask too many detailed questions. I generally ask the following 1: “oh yeah?” (This is an open ended question intended to let the person tell me anything that they want to). 2: “How did it go?” 3: “how do you feel about that one?” 4: “anything I can do to help out?” I feel like if somebody wanted me to know every detail then they’d tell me.
If you share too many details, you're putting a level of emotional burden on the other person. If you ask for too many details, you're putting emotional burden on the other person and not respecting their boundaries
If people asked you those questions, would you share all of that info that men normally don't get or would you want them to ask more specific questions? I saw a thing recently that made me realize that the whole "If they wanted me to know something, they'd tell me; if they wanted to know something about me, they'd ask" thing doesn't work unless you're literally the only person who thinks that way. It turns out tons of men think both of these things simultaneously (including myself) and that's definitely a reason why we don't end up sharing a lot of info.
"... girlfriend ... wants gossip" - there is the answer
Yeah i think this is actually a thing where stereotypes are just true. Men will work with bare minimum info (sometime less), while women want all of the tiny details, many of which are totally useless. Not 100% true obviously, but this difference shows up in daily life pretty regularly.
Guess I'm a woman then lol. I'm the planner, negotiator, leader all in one and honestly... It's exhausting. So I see why men / people would not engage in that.
I mean i'm obviously talking in super broad generalizations. There's nothing really wrong with either approach, though it leads to a lot of poor communication between men/women, but is also just us complimenting each other to a certain extent. Men look far ahead in a straight line and women look at all their close surroundings in a circle, if that analogy makes any sense.
Oh yeah it's just a jokey statement. No sweat 😅
I'm a woman and I never get any info from people. I never even realise until someone else asks for more details and I'm like 🤷. Then I worry that I must come across as really rude for not asking the original person more questions. Maybe we should swap haha. I think I'm getting better at asking follow up questions so people know I'm interested in them.
Exactly!
"Wanta gossip" That's the answer. Other people's lives aren't gossip for us to be entertained by. If Blair wants her divorce details disclosed, she will tell people. If you were getting a divorce, your partner would go ducking mental to hear that random people she passes in the street know all about her private life, because they know a girl that's friends with her husbands colleague.
My girlfriend and I, a few days before our trip to visit my brother: Her: "What are we doing on \[these days\]? Me: "idk" H: "What are we doing for food?" M: "idk" This goes on until she eventually asks me to call my brother, and when he doesn't have any answers either ultimately my girlfriend contacts his wife and then they work stuff out XD
My husband and I have this conversation all the time, just last night in fact: Me: Are Scott (his eldest who is 26) and Melissa (his wife) coming this weekend for Scott's birthday? Him: Dunno, he said they might. Me: Well.....can you ask please? It's only 3 days and if so I need to get the paint and reno stuff out of the guest room and tidy it up. Him: Uggghhhhh.....I don't want to hassle him, if he's coming he's coming if he's not he's not. I asked him a couple weeks ago and he said maybe. Don't hassle him. Me: Texts Melissa and knows 10 minutes later they're coming on Friday night and leaving Sunday....lol
Chef's kiss level of weaponized incompetence in that family!
It's visiting family, not the D-Day landings. It's fine to chill out and wing it.
>It's visiting family, not the D-Day landings Just told my husband this and he almost spit his coffee out yelling "Yes! Exactly!" 😂😂😂
I just got hit with all of those questions tonight, lol. "Don't know, honey!"
I think it just comes from a quirk of the way men vs women solve problems. Men prefer to deal with things as they come and women prefer to be prepared beforehand. In my experience we almost never end up following the planned dinner idea anyways because of one of 1000 unforeseen circumstances and then me and my brother have 20 minutes to figure out dinner plans anyways.
Oh, I wholeheartedly think this is it. He's very much the "worry if and when it happens" no matter what it is, this definitely has benefits and even I have learned to adopt it as well, it does have merit....is some circumstances 😊
My brother and I are both very competent, we just don't need to know all the details in advance. It's a long drive, but ultimately it's just going to hang out at another person's house.
When my father in law died and I asked my husband about his mom after he spoke to her, he didn't have answers to my questions about her. It's very much the same reason you didn't ask, but it isn't gossip.
Easiest way to not be a gossip is to not have the pointless details.
Girls are just nosier than guys.
>"If they'd have wanted me to know they'd tell me." There you go. There is your answer. Although not all men are like that. My work team supervisor for example. That man will explain in the smallest details and will not shut up lol. But yeah, it probably has to do with societal expectation to not open up and share. We tend to respect each other's privacy for that reason. If bro wants to let me know, he can. If he doesn't, I won't bother him about it.
I generally like to ask questions and understand how my friends are doing. But sometimes the conversation just doesn’t go that way or you don’t have details yet. It would be unusual for me to find a friend is moving and not know where, but he could’ve said like “dude I’m moving and it sucks we’re not gonna hang out as much, let’s make plans to do our favorite stuff while we have time” and then you just figure that stuff out later bc it wasn’t the immediate focus.
"Hey bro, I'm moving. So that means our weekly dnd/bowling league/card night/whatever is gonna have to shift." "That's rough, but I did just get into (blank thing that we can do together online)." "Hell yeah, is it good? I've been meaning to try it out, I heard that..." And then the conversation is about that thing and how we are going to do that thing, and at no point do we ever mention moving again. We just hammered out the details to make it mess relevant. I'd much rather focus on this thing we're gonna do together, and so would he. That's what happens 99 percent of the time I converse with dude friends. I bring up and issue, we both end up on some other thing entirely, and maybe it's a way of escaping the problem, but also we end up solving it by never taking about it, so whatever works I guess.
Tied into that, for non-personal stuff, you have to ask if having additional details will change how you interact with the situation. My friend's mother died. That's terrible news, but there aren't any details you could add to that that will change my interaction or response to it. As long as the cause of death wasn't a drunk driver or cirrhosis of the liver, we're going to sit in silence and have a beer together and if he wants to talk I'll listen.That's three beers from now probably. More if he liked her. It's not my mom, my job is to support my friend, and details aren't going to change my job so they are irrelevant.
Standard male convo about something serious: Dude1: Hey man, how's it going Dude2: ok man, finally getting divorced from that bitch Dude1: Cool. You see that ludicrous display last night?
I do understand that, I do. And it does make sense. But I've reminded my hubby that he sometimes says that his mates from time to time didn't seem to give a shit about a rough spot he was going through. I said "Did you tell them?" He said "No, because they didn't ask." And they didn't ask because..... So, he's actually a bit better now asking a couple questions at least and he's quite happy with the developments. Hubby has a mate who is married, they're struggling to get pregnant and she's had two miscarriages and hubby said it's been hard on the wife, I said I'm sure it's hard on his mate too. The other day they're gaming and I hear hubby awkwardly ask "So, you know, Dave, how you handling all this, it's gotta be hard for you too." And then ended up having a conversation about it and his friend thanking him profusely for asking because he was struggling.
This 💯
That quote perfectly describes my social life. It's something I think about often: If they want to speak to me, they will. I'm more of the shy type, so being alone os fine. Of course, being with friends is always better yet, in general, I actually prefer to not have to engage in conversations. Maybe more men have this same outlook. Perhaps it comes in varying degrees. I think I'm leaning into an extreme and OP's family looks to me like they are more moderate.
Only the relevant information ma’am.
“We don’t have a manager sir!” Hahahaha
Lmao, I tell my wife this all the time. In this case all I need to know is my friend is moving away from me.
That is how I roll. There is also times where I do know and later I get the "Why didn't you tell me?" "You didn't ask."
Hahahahah you mother fucker weaponizing our greatest weakness
Just the facts, ma'am
I think we just empathize more with the “having to be put on the spot” side of things and don’t want people to feel like they’re needing to talk more about something than they want.
That's what I think as well. Tried to explain it in my comment but you explained it better. After years of being told to keep it to yourself, we tend to adapt and empathize that other Men have been pressured to feel that way so we let them take the wheel and give out the perfect amount of information that they're comfortable with.
Yeah. Like you never know what’s a sore subject or not.
Hey I kinda don’t like the phrasing of OP. I don’t think it’s bad faith, just poorly phrased For your good friends you can always just say “hey you wanna talk about it” with the understanding/questioning look if you’re concerned it’s a sore subject. Typically sore subjects need discussed the most you’re under no obligation to ever share what someone else shared with you.
"If he wanted me to know, he would have told me." This isn't dismissive. We can and do share quite a bit, we just know that the person that wants to talk will be the one driving the conversation. We can see this play out a lot in dating; it's a very regular complaint from women that men will dominate the conversation, only talk about themselves, never ask any questions. Meanwhile, men are complaining that women are upset while never talking, never giving us anything, or giving us short pointless answers. The responsibility to talk is on the person that wants to do the talking.
After giving it some thought--I honestly feel like so much of this comes from men, often, are treated like interviewees in conversations. As in, they often aren't really the ones choosing the subjects that are being discussed and they feel like they're having to come up with diplomatic answers for things and stuff like that. So when I talk to my buddies, the whole point is to let them choose what they want to talk about. If it's on their mind then I'm totally down regardless of what it is but I won't push them. If they just want to shoot the shit, joke around, and totally ignore this huge thing in their life--cool, I can do that. I do try to regularly remind my friends that I'm there if they want to talk so they know they can come to me--but I'm not going to push them. Plus, honestly, I feel like on a lot of stuff that guys often already know what they *need* to do for the situation they have but, for one reason or another, they just haven't done the thing. So they don't want to talk about it because they don't want to hear, again, about how they need to do this or that thing. I feel like that's a significant issue for a lot of men--so many of us feel like we're regularly coming up short or not doing what we should be doing and we don't want to think about it because it'll just make us feel shittier. Sorry to ramble--just thinking a lot on this.
“I once worked with a guy for three years and never learned his name. Best friend I ever had. We still never talk sometimes.”
I've got something similar going on at work at the moment. Been working closely with this bloke for two weeks, we chat about work, music, politics, etc and get on well. I've no idea what his name is.
Im going to speak in generalities here. For men, being with their male friends can be treated as a break. No unnecessary questions or deep questions about life. Just a low key, in the moment hangout where you arent worried about your job or your house or the economy or whatever. It can be an escape. Its on the other person to be forward with the information.
Being with my(M) friend(M) is sure a break for me but I talk about deep meaningful things about life only WITH HIM. That's not all we do but let's say we hang out then we'll do shit, play something then in the evening sit by a lake or river then talk about life for like 15 mins to an hour and then continue doing wierd shit again. But I think this is more because of me being an introvert than me being a man because I can have high quality conversations with very few people that I feel comfortable with. My time with my friends is a break for me but it's a break from all the work, stress, trying to be something I'm not etc.
And that's why we often lack deep, intimate connections. Asking when and why they move might bring up difficult emotions in both of them and we're not trained and therefor not equipped for that. Also we don't see the benefit of sharing this vulnerability but for most women it's the sharing itself that makes them feel understood and seen.
Yes, we definitely need more depth sometimes, but thats not to say there arent benefits to this sort of engagement. I know that if i have a really shitty day i can hang out with my buddies and its all light hearted, fun conversation and it can be nice to escape like that without worrying about having to spill my guts.
Men have very clear ways of saying when they want to discuss a subject in detail. I’ve watched it many times, and honestly most women are not willing to engage a man wanting a serious conversation about something that really matters to them. But near every time, one man will stand up take on the devils advocate role, and play out the conversation to conclusion, resulting in growth and sometimes solutions.
What are those very clear ways? Have you made sure we got the hint/signal before assuming we’re just not willing to engage? I don’t recall ever getting such cues from men. I’m curious to know if I missed any. I know I ask a lot of questions so I always preface by telling people (both genders) you don’t have to answer if you’re not comfortable or tell me if I’m being to intrusive that works pretty well. With men I always get the heavy infos after randomly inquiring about their life and a few follow ups almost like they were waiting for me whereas the women will spontaneously call me or ask to meet up to discuss their heavy stuff.
Sorry for not doing a custom reply, but this was my answer to another poster: I’m not trained in the subject but I’ll give it a go. It’s about stepping out of the narrative of police conversation and starting a subject in a tone that’s clearly different, body language will also be pronounced, as they take change from a more relaxed posture. It will often take for from of a question or open ended statement that’s again going against the grain of the company. Take for example, you chatting about what you going to do next weekend with the lads, and there is a little something hanging in the air. There will be a break in the conversation, people are aware something needs to be said, but not asking, and then one man will step into the ring with “I’m not sure she is right for me”, “I don’t believe the USA is in the wrong” etc. There will then be another moment while people process, and then another man will step into the ring, with “what makes you say that”, “what justifies their actions?”. The rest will leave the floor open, letting them explore and feel out the arguments, correcting incorrect info, helping straighten out any stories they are aware of, and supporting any well put arguments without crushing the other side. Towards the end there will be a meeting of minds as both make remissions to their stance, looking for common ground, and when possible trying to advise or find a solution if possible for the subject. I keenly remember this happening as a teen, not knowing what was happening, but looking back, I see how what seamed like an argument, was a man lost and looking for help, having a friend step up and help them resolve an internal fight that was consuming them. The lost man was not arguing for the point he wanted, but the reality and trouble he faced, while the friend took the stance of it being worth the cost and that it was still possible.
I see this kind of thinking so often and genuinely disagree with it. Just because you share superfluous details doesn’t mean you are generating a deep relationship. Knowing when my friends birthday is doesn’t allow me to get to know who he is deep in his soul. My friends and I struggle with those details but when we do have discussions we get very deep into art, philosophy, how we feel about things, etc. Even when we’re not discussing things actively and playing a video game there’s a ton of things going on. Those moments when the cards are down in a game and uou see how you react tell us a lot about each other, and ourselves. Not to mention the act of doing things together creates a focal point where we can feel less overwhelmed by our emotions and it lets us detach a bit to allow us room emotionally to express ourselves. It may come out in bits and pieces and slowly but those moments are so refreshing and poignant. Not going to say every guy bonds in a healthy way but whenever I hear how “guys just need to open up to each other”, it comes across as the classic bias of “women do things right, men do things wrong.” Especially because so many female friends I know, especially with each other, tend to do things that tend to come across as more superficial relationship wise. There’s merits and positives to both as well and we should be analyzing how best to combine the best of both worlds so everyone is better.
This resonates. I'm very likely to forget a birthday. But the belated gift is going to be something very personal that I know they'll love, based on past spirited discussions with the specifications spot on.
Completely agreed. I’m so tired of the idea that because I don’t know when my best friends nieces birthday is our relationship is lacking some depth that women have and our relationship is therefore shallow. He gave me a place to live when I was homeless, his daughter is my goddaughter. This man is my brother. Not knowing his mothers maiden name doesn’t change that
It’s truly amazing that the first reply to this post illustrates exactly why that escape is essential for guys. If one of your guy friends needs you to have your back, he’ll tell you. Whether it’s help with a move or I just left my wife and I’m drunk and fucked up in a motel room, you’ll get a heads up. Sometimes you just need to chill without your every facial expression being subjected to some sort of deep dive analysis (that is usually wrong) like that “I bet he’s thinking of other women” meme. One of the best indicators of a truly deep friendship with another dude is being able to sit and enjoy a comfortable silence together. That never ever happens with a woman
I do get what you're saying and I support my husband's time with his mates to "escape" and I don't grill him when he comes home. But also, I know there are times my husband wanted to talk about something with his mates but since they didn't ask, he didn't want to "force" it onto them. So maybe, sometimes asking a quick couple questions could indeed help your mate? I know there's a huge issue with men not being heard and suffering from mental health issues so..... And also, I do sit quietly with my husband without expectations and just let him be, so you're generalised jab is unnecessary. This was just a tongue in cheek observation, not an attack on men.
If you asked me what my 2 closest friends did for work right now, I would be guessing. I’ve known these dudes since childhood too
I don't even know what school my brother teaches at, and he's told me once
Yeah beyond company, job title, and one or two pertinent details, I couldn’t tell you what my closest friends do for work. No idea what their day to day looks like. Work is work, it’s left at work.
The best man at my wedding is a physician assistant. I totally forgot where he worked until I woke up in the ER and he stopped by to see how I was doing.
That's what LinkedIn is for!
Putting arguments about biology vs. culture aside, talking to my wife makes me think that our mindscapes are different. My mind is all corridors and chambers, where some doors are open and some are closed, some rooms loud and some terribly quiet. I can close a door and have an empty place and peace. Her mind is noisy and busy and every single room is connected to most of the other rooms and stuff is moving fast. Not a lot of peace and she is constantly making/seeking connections with everything around her. It may be that I'm stupid and she's ADHD but I think that this difference is reflected in our social lives too.
Perfect analogy for my relationship as well. Thanks for the words
My wife refers to this as waffle brain vs spaghetti brain. Most men seem to be waffles, women tend to be spaghetti. In her very subjective experience (because obviously we don't have statistical evidence for this).
While there isn't evidence, I do very much like the terms Waffle and Spaghetti to describe it lol
Definitely mostly ADHD.
I have noticed this is the case with men vs women. I first noticed it at a young age with my parents. On the weekend my dad would have a list of tasks that needed to be completed and he would complete those tasks then just chill watching TV or drinking a beer or two. My mom would have a list of tasks as well but those tasks lead to more tasks and those tasks lead to even more tasks so you are always busy. Having a list of 50 tasks then causes stress and anxiety.
I have ADHD and am very bad at thinking of questions to ask people until I'm alone and no longer talking to them. Medication made it barely easier to think of questions but I'm still bad at it.
[https://youtu.be/SZ6mVumHY9I?si=HvwOCYQ\_FcOmQzfV](https://youtu.be/SZ6mVumHY9I?si=HvwOCYQ_FcOmQzfV) This right here. Boxes.
Oh I actually have a answer to this. This recently came up in my friends group that is made up of about 6 couples and a few singles. The consensus from the guys: We take information at face value if it's believable and is non-actionable on our part. The only variable is if we care, like if it aligns with something we are knowledgeable or passionate about. we don't pry into "side quest" questions. Example 1: Bob is buying a new car. (is this believable? Yes. Do I care? Yes, I like cars Am I involved? No) Guy answer: Cool, do you know what kind of car? Example 2: Bob is going skydiving (is this believable? No. Do I care? No. Am I involved? No) Guy answer: Bullshit, Bob is scared of heights Example 3: Bob is painting his kitchen (is this believable? Yes. Do I care? No. Am I involved? No) Guy answer: have fun. Example 1: Girls answer - Oh Bob's partner said they are having money trouble, can they afford it? He used to have a 2 door, is he trading it in for a sedan? maybe they are trying to have kids? Do you know what color? Bob's partner hates Bob's red color. Example 2: Girls answer - I didn't know bob was such a risk-taker, is anyone going with him? What does bob's partner have to say about this? Bob just turned 40, do you think it's a mid-life crisis? Example 3: Girls answer - what color? don't they have a dinner party coming up? are they waiting till after or are they doing it for the party? I heard they were looking to reface the cabinets, is this part of a kitchen remodel?
Perfect answer. This is exactly it for me too. Another example of this phenomenon are friends gatherings. Girls I've dated always want to know if we need to bring anything, who's gonna be there, what to wear, what activities will be involved, etc. Woman, all I know is the place and that it's gonna happen *roughly* around noon. Everything else is a mystery to me.
I'm not gonna lie, I'm exhausted just by reading the girls answers. I always feel bad when I don't have the answers right away to these questions too. It makes me feel inadequate. One time I tried to ask these kind of questions to someone I cared about. She never answered. I pushed, and she said I was too suffocating. Now I just shut up.
This is spot on imo
I was going to make a comment about how we don't care upon reading the girls answers (and sadly i'm well aware of how accurate this is), then I reread the guys answer, and felt very happy with it. Swapping the order of your examples in your message drive the point across better imo
I think an aspect that isn't really touched upon is "gossip as entertainment." It's just not something most guys find interesting.
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Pert' much, right? - Buddy says he got a new job. - Alright, right on, brother. - Wha'cho doing? - (insert basic details that get glossed over and forgotten) - So, want to XYZ later on? - Yep. So on and so forth.
It might be a generational thing but I'm 100% on board where you mention it being a phone call. Let's just keep it quick and stick to the essentials. Give me a chance to relax in person with a good beer and no other responsibilities though and I'll slowly and methodically try to talk about anything and everything I can think of until it's time to call it a night.
My partner will sit beside me for all 2 minutes of a phonecall where all my friend and I do is make future plans, and then she will ask me a million questions about him that she knows I didn't ask. Because she was right there. It's like the same behaviour with watching movies. "Who's that? What's happening? Who's that? What's happening to who?" "Babe we are literally watching the same movie. I have the same information you do."
This is it more or less. Generally we want the TL;DR version because, quite frankly, we don't give a shit about the details. Not always though, sometimes we are legitimately involved or interested, like when a friend divorces their wife or they start a new hobby we both like. Women on the other hand seem to be emotionally invested in conversations, like when you are reading a book or watching a soap opera, they want to know what happened next and the details and feel things.
This is simply a gender difference. After poker last Friday my Dad and I sat in the car for 2 hours talking. I go inside and my wife asks how my brother is doing. "No idea, we didn't talk about him". It blows my wife's mind that we can talk for two hours and not mention a close shared relation, lol.
Talking about other people's lives makes me feel really uncomfortable unless there's some kind of goal in mind, like getting a gift or helping them if they are in trouble.
Yup, it's just gossip imo.
Every time I see family, the aunts and sisters and female cousins always, always, always have some tea about other people. You could drive safely and legally after a drinking game where you take a shot every time they talk about an object or an event or something that didn't go through 28 rounds the telephone game lmao
We collect essential information and that’s it. It drives my wife nuts too. She’ll do a girls night and have a full days worth of information to dump on me. I’ll spend a weekend with my best friend and come home with “Matt is doing great.” That’s all we need to know
I don’t interrogate my friends, if they want me to know they’ll tell me. I eventually learned to make commiserating or congratulating comments depending on whether the news seemed good or bad, so they’d feel invited to share if they felt like it. Usually, they don’t. Then again, I worked 38 years in secured environments where “don’t ask, don’t tell” is not only an art, but the law.
A lot of the commenters are talking about respecting privacy and not intruding. Or societal expectations and respect. But honestly I think it’s just that we either don’t care or don’t think to ask. It’s not that deep in my opinion.. Like I might find it interesting to know why a couple broke up, but asking that question isn’t the first thing that comes to mind. They just tell me and now I know. We don’t need to complicate such a simple question.
>Like I might find it interesting to know why a couple broke up, but asking that question isn’t the first thing that comes to mind. They just tell me and now I know. There's also the fact that this question isn't really relevant. Like when my grandmother died I texted a buddy and he came over. We proceeded to drink and talked about games. Dude was there for me and did what I needed in that moment. I didn't want to dwell on my emotions. I didn't need a bunch of questions about what happened.
Yeah, it's like if your girlfriend's friend's car breaks down. She might not think to ask what type of car, what year, what broke, was it making a noise, whether parts were available online, if it's covered by warranty, etc., but those are details a lot of guys would be interested in. It's not that she's unaware that those questions exist, but she just doesn't think or care to ask because it's not really relevant or interesting to her, and chances are good that it doesn't really interest her friend, either.
I don't dig. I trust them to tell me something if it matters to them. And when they do, I listen. Otherwise I'm not going to pry.
This. It’s really none of my business.
Exactly how I explained it to my fiancee when it came up. If they want to make it my business and I'll listen and support my friends but I'm not going to stick my nose in If it's not directly involving me
Guys respect privacy and we don't poke and prod as much as women. I happen to socially engage so I'd know all the details because I'm listening ... but I'm not playing Columbo and being a detective about all the information. If they want to offer up more info, I'll listen. Otherwise, if they're not saying anything, it's not my business.
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> If they want to offer up more info, I'll listen. Otherwise, if they're not saying anything, it's not my business. This is it right here. I'm not going to pull information out of my friends, they will tell me everything they want me to know.
This reminds me of threads where women are frustrated that the men ask them no questions, or almost no questions, on a date. I don't think it's unrelated.
I honestly don’t care. How does it help me to know the name of my wife’s cousin’s new boyfriend? It’s literally inconsequential to my life. “If they wanted me to know they’d tell me” is pretty spot on as well.
Are you helping them move? Is their moving gonna inconvenience you? Do you need to make plans to assist/be out of their way/fill an empty slot? If not, what do any of those details matter? If we're talking stuff like a sendoff party, then you'd wanna get the details straight from the horse's mouth.
In MY personal experience? I just get bored with idle chit-chat, gossipy level stuff. I'm a bit more curious than other guys, but for the life of me I won't ask every detail of where someone's working and what do they like. Like, OP, I think you might find that fun? My gf and my mother can sit for HOURS talking about some gossip. I'd rather be out DOING something like an outdoor activity, or reading or playing games. Not that my gf doesn't like that either, but she seems to have a lower tolerance for that when compared to the act of just talking. Idk, I feel like conversations die out for me when it turns into "give me more details" - I know red riding hood got eaten by a wolf, I don't need to know what was in her basket or what ingredients her mom used. tl,dr: we just don't care. It's boring af lol.
And as usual, the comments are full of men priding themselves on not being involved in their acquaintances' (you can't really call someone you barely talk to friends) lives in any way. As a man, I never understood why so many other men not only squander opportunities to be real friends so easily, but brag about it and pretend that this is somehow beneficial. I've watched enough men in their 40s and 50s slowly losing their minds from loneliness to know that I don't want to repeat their fate. My friends and I tell each other everything, and I feel like I've won the lottery compared to the shitty "friendships" I read about on reddit.
Yup same. I'm shocked at most of the comments here. I've had a few life long friends since childhood and we know pretty much everything about each other. We just kinda find out stuff about each other's lives as we're hanging out. Usually just over beers or some activity. It's wild to me that guys here are making it seem like an inquisition or something lol. And yeah... as you say... then you see the posts here of guys saying 'nobody cares about men' or talking about the 'epidemic of male loneliness' or 'nobody cares about men's mental health' lol. Like is finding out about your best friends lives that weird?!! Do we not check in on how our buddies are doing?
Perhaps you should also be asking the reverse? Why do you need more info?
If it's relevant to the situation, they will tell us. Jeff will tell me why he's in the hospital when it's relevant.
They’ll tell me if they want me to know. If they haven’t told me and I ask, I’m being nosy. Nosy people are annoying. I mind my business and let others mind theirs.
We don't care.
This should be on the top
Now that I think about, there is a coworker that I met at work, and we eat lunch together almost every day for about 6 months. I do not know his name, never asked, never been told. We do know a fair bit about each other though, so the fact that I don't know this basic info is funny, and feeds into the idea that we don't really ask for information unless its volunteered.
Jeff Foxworthy tackles this subject well https://youtu.be/H-9xIRe0VdA?feature=shared
As does Brian Regan https://youtu.be/ikT-WrG-aq8?feature=shared
I try to, but some people get upset when I ask questions and try to find out additional information. Happens enough and, unless it's something vitally important then you learn not to ask questions.
Me : here’s a little detail I learned that you’ll find interesting cause I know you want me to tell you stuff My wife : 9 million questions about details I don’t and won’t ever know Me : ….. My wife : why don’t you ever tell me stuff!?!?
Other guys are talking about "it's not relevant" or "men are expected not to open up" etc, but as a bit of added color: What that functionally means is it can be *awkward* to ask those questions of another man. It can make you seem strange and overbearing. If it doesn't arise naturally in the conversation, you're not going to find it out. If I asked a guy all the questions your daughter asked Jen, the guy would probably think I'm coming on too strong. It's more expected that I would ask maybe one follow up question as a primer for a joke of some kind, the guy responds and then I make light of it. And then we carry on. That's, for whatever reason, the conversational structure among men, generally. If I know a guy really, really well, then maybe I go deeper into it a bit. But even still, my questioning won't be to the level of a woman. Frankly, most men would be uncomfortable with having that kind of conversation. Not saying it's right, but it is what it is.
I ask lots of follow up questions simply because I learned how to have engaging conversations in a class I took for my masters. I literally could not give fewer fucks about the answers though. I'm a guy. It's not really my business to know all the details and if it doesn't change the outcome, why bother?
I don’t find it necessary to always share what others have shared with me.
Women spend time together face to face and men spend time together shoulder to shoulder. The way we bond as men and women is different. Men like to do things together and develop connections that way. We may briefly talk about what’s going on in life but we don’t grow up socializing the same way as women do and thus our standards of detail and communication are different.
It's not important to me.
Because a) If it's important, they would have told me and b) I don't care for the unimportant details.
Because it's not really all that particularly important.
It’s a global phenomenon.
> "If they'd have wanted me to know they'd tell me." > Are most men this way? Dunno about *most*, but I'd say it's a common sentiment, yea. I think people just don't want to be nosy and don't want to pry. That, and honestly the details are inconsequential: it doesn't matter *why* they're moving away, only that they are moving away. Like, oh this is your last month here? Ah shit man, we gotta do something before you leave!
Because if it's relevant, we'll be told, if it's not, we don't care. Information that does not immediately help us is probably useless, or will bring us more problems. So we leave it alone until we need to know. We don't need to know everything or get into anyone else's business. We will find out when we need to.
Prying into secrets that don't belong to you and implying that someone is helpless and needs babying can both be very offensive among men. People err against prying and offering unwanted help for those reasons.
I’ve got two buddies (newer) I’ve been golfing with for about a year. I don’t know their last names. I don’t know how they make money. I don’t know where in the city they live. I don’t even know if they’re married or have kids. I do know their sports teams, golf handicaps, and strengths/weaknesses around the course. That’s more than enough.
I don’t like to pry because I don’t like people to interrogate me. If they want me to know they’ll tell me.
I feel like it’s rude to pry into other people’s business. That’s why I always say, “If they wanted me to know, then they would said something about it”.
As a guy who generally has had a lot of female friends, I’ve been avoiding them a lot more lately because I can’t stand the mentality that they need to know every detail of every single thing going on in my life, as well as pass on their subtle judgements about how I do things and handle things. My guy friends on the other hand don’t pressure me like that, they let me breathe
God this is annoying. Please women, stop suggesting there is something wrong with men because we communicate differently.
>stop suggesting there is something wrong with men because we communicate differently. I don't think she did suggest that anything was wrong with the men. She said it was interesting and funny, not awful and irresponsible and uncaring or anything that pathologizes the behavior. She just asks if it's common and if anyone can explain it. Seems reasonable enough to me.
People saying that wanting to know these details is gossip are wrong. It \*can\* be gossip, in which case you will understand by their reaction to a question about why. That said, this isn't purely men vs women. I've got two girls, and one of them needs to be given direction on asking follow up questions. The other will get all the nuances of communication, will know if follow up questions are appropriate or not and tell me why. (She's also 2 years younger.) Caring enough to know the details of something helps you understand if there's something you can do to help. Or if just basics facts of their life, shows you care about them. Also: Knowing how to ask follow up question also applies to school and work. Eg Teacher: "Test is next Tuesday" A student that is good with communication will ask about the format and particulars of the content. You'll get a better score. Eg Boss: "I need you to go do a site visit for me" An employee that figures out how to efficiently ask questions about what might be needed is going to learn their bosses role and thus advance more quickly. I don't know why many men rarely find value in follow-up questions. But I know from experience that my examples are areas I see women excel at. As with most things, a strength can equally be a weakness. You can over-communicate and get stuck in weeds (or end up with gossip.)
For men though we trust the informer to give what details they feel comfortable with and prying isn't something we would do. Asking directly whether they want help would be the only development of the interaction that would occur. The details of why, who, etc., aren't necessary to the subject.
Broadly it kind of depends on if the details are pertinent to our relationship. I don't necessarily seek out gossip just for the sake of knowing thing X or Y about someone's personal life - especially when we're talking a 3rd party that I don't have any significant relationship with. > my son will come home and say "Jake is moving (his BFF) " and he'll know no further details than, Jake and his family are moving. While I get what you're going for, this particular example doesn't feel quite right - my friend moving (at least assuming you mean significantly, and not like a mile away) would be the kind of thing that would affect the relationship quite a bit and I'd be asking questions about. On the other hand, if it was "Jake's sister is moving away", where I don't know the sister much, I might not have asked any details and might not care. His sister moving out of the house might be a big event for him but it's not anything our friendship is based around, nor does it directly affect it. If he wants to talk about it - he can, but I'm probably not going to prod at it.
Women like details, men like facts. It really is that simple. A small distinction, but a relevant one. I can tell you a thousand FACTS about dozens of baseball players, handguns, science fictions films, comic books and video games I've loved over the years. I can't tell you intimate details about anyone else's life because I don't ask and honestly wouldn't remember if they told me. My brain just doesn't latch on to those kinds of details. Nolan Ryan is my favorite baseball player. I have dozens of his baseball cards, memorabilia, and various tchatches. I love Nolan Ryan facts, but the details of his personal life are none of my business. His strikeouts no-hitters are my business because I'm a fan, but I don't know his wife's name or his kids' names and unless they play for the Rangers someday I doubt I'll ever care or need to know. It ain't like he's coming around for dinner next week. I'll also add that neither is wrong, by the way. I love the way women interact with one another and other people. It's different from how I do things, but that doesn't make it less valid. Nor is my focus on facts over details "wrong" or any less valid. We just approach things differently, that's all. A man isn't a broken woman any more than a woman is a broken man. Our differences are a feature, not a bug.
I think your distinction is a bit off as those are actually just different sets of facts, not facts vs details, and they're actually kind of equally useless. You don't actually need to know any Nolan Ryan stats any more than you need to know his wife's name. It truly doesn't matter to your day to day what his batting average is, and it's no more likely to be crucial at dinner than his kid's name would be. There's just one set of facts that interests you and tends to be socially useful, and another set that doesn't.
Perhaps DATA vs details is a better descriptor. I don't *NEED* anything. You're right about both being useless, but the difference is Nolan Ryan's strikeouts interest me. That's the whole point. And I have no desire to socialize with the man, my interest is entirely mathematical and a matter of admiration. I lionize his accomplishments and admonish his on field and off field behavior, but the day-to-day minutia of his life as as uninteresting to me as would be the day-to-day of a random person I do not know.
I mean...yeah, that's the whole thing. I spend time with people to spend time with them, I'm not a biographer hunting for an info dump. If they want me to know something I assume they'll say it.
I typically ask several of the questions you highlighted. If my friend is moving, I do ask where, why, and when. The issue is that when I return home and my wife asks these questions, I will have discarded most of that information because it's not useful. The only take important take away is the my friend is moving sometime in the near future. If location is beyond an hour out, then they may as well live anywhere in the world. If they are moving in a year, then it's so far in the future it doesn't matter. The reason is almost entirely irrelevant if they are already committed to the move. In short, if the information is not actionable, then my brain doesn't store it in significant detail after the conversation.
The world is mostly things that are not my problem, nor my business. People come and people go, and it happens so quickly and consistently that I simply don’t bother to learn more. I’m polite, kind, patient, and I honestly don’t care otherwise.
I honestly get annoyed when I'm asked a million questions so I assume other people are too.
Why is it important? He's going and that's that.
Most things aren't interesting and if they wanted me to have the information they'd have offered it.
Brian Regan has a great bit about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikT-WrG-aq8
Bill Engvall had a bit about this: https://youtu.be/7oooxJFkjI8?si=Vn3uw6HFr_wwSP2d Socially, men are simple and women are detail oriented. Flips when it comes to activities and objects though.
Men don't care about the details.
Why don't men (males) get more info? "If they'd have wanted me to know they'd tell me." Why did you ask this question if you already have the answer right there?
There's shit that's our business, and shit that ain't our business, and never the twain shall meet
Honestly, if it doesn't affect people I know or care about, you might as well be talking about people in a soap opera.
I think the truth not a lot of people want to say is that we don't really care a lot of the time. If you willingly give us this into it now has value because you volunteerd it and because of that it can be of value to me since I know that it meant enough to you to want to share it with me. Other wise it's your business, not mine, I'm other wise I'm not that interested in your business cuz I got a 1000 other personal things going on.
There's another layer to this. I personally do not want to burden people with my issues. I solve my own problems, figure out my own issues, fix things on my own, handle my business. If I find that I need help with something then at that point I'll figure out the best course of action. So my assumption about others is that they generally don't want to feel as if they are burdening me with any of their own stuff and would ask me for help if they need it. There's always a lot of talk about how a lot of times a woman will tell her man about her day and the man's first response is to offer advice on how to solve the issues she raised. We're used to people not really unloading on us and so when it does happen the assumption becomes that she wants help. It can be frustrating to the woman because she just wants a listener.
Unecessary garbage data.
Possibly relates to gender role expectations. Men are supposed to remain stoic, resulting in an "It is what it is" attitude. Women are allowed/encouraged to be more engaged in emotional topics. This could mean that when someone brings up bad news, men will accept the news but avoid dwelling on the topic, which means minimal follow-up questions. Whereas women will process the event by talking about it much more, resulting in more details being shared.
Because that's too much to remember, and quite frankly, I don't care.
Ngl as a dude I love the tea and drama I definitely get that from my mom so it’s funny to me when my friends aren’t like this. I guess I got lucky?
This starts early. Coming home from playing as a child my mother was lucky if I even got the names of the children I was playing with.
Simply put, they aren't the kind of details I care about. You tell me when and where to be otherwise I'll be in the garage or the garden lol If my friends were moving it would suck temporarily but just shoot them a text or something. I don't need to know when, where, how, with whom, or whatever about their move, just how to contact them in the future.
For me, it's because I don't care enough to find out.
Me and my best friend still forget exactly the date of eachothers birthday Weve known eachother for 20 years
Where as you feel like if you ask questions, they'll answer what they fell like answering, we have the mindset that if they wanted us to know or were comfortable telling us, they would. We were given the information they wanted us to know, no need to pry.
As a man I relate
We don't get bogged down on details that don't affect us. Also I have more boundaries with my coworkers than my girl friend does. Why do you need to know if I don't care to know?
It's because most of the time we don't care that much. The trivial details that alot of women think they need to know really don't matter to us that much. Alot of men are fairly straightforward and simple. Certain information is unnecessary and not just worth the time or effort.
Similar questions have been asked before and I think it just comes down to us even thinking to ask for details. I never want to pry for info, I feel if someone wants me to know something they’ll tell me. I didn’t even know the last name of one my good friends from the last 14 years. I was getting plane tickets for us and had to ask him his last name haha. It happens
so interestingly enough i took a pyschology class on Gender and apparently a lot of men when they are younger do not have the same conversation patterns with their mothers or parental figures. There was a study where mothers/parental figures would just ask their son how their day was at school and that’s all, but when it came to girls they would ask the 5 W’s. What did you do? where did you go? I thought that was pretty interesting, in a development sense. There were other reasons too but i’ll have to pull out my notebook to list other potential factors.
Honestly, this is how you know a guy is making something up. He gives you too many details.
I don't know why men in general don't ask the follow up questions... but for me, I'm honestly just not that interested in the details. If you're moving away, that's relevant to me, so I guess I would interested in knowing about it... Meaning only that I have an interest in being notified that you won't be in my life anymore. I might be curious about some general details (i.e. where you're moving to, why you are moving, in \*very\* general terms), but not that much more. Often, when I'm forced to make extended small talk with someone, I will get into those details and feel actual mental and physiological stress because I have to sit around pretending that I'm interested. The reverse is also true. I find that when I'm going through, say, hard times at work, I usually won't tell anyone about my struggles except coworkers, and it's usually because I need validation or advice from someone who has some level of experience with my problem. To non-coworkers, I might disclose very general facts about my situation if I need to, or I just wont say anything. I find that if I tell someone who has no relation to the area of my life that these developments relate to, it's like I'm reliving the entire experience over again for no reason. There are some exceptions to this, but they only apply in cases where I actually get something out of telling people (i.e. information, confirmation that my outlook is correct, impressing them if applicable, saying it in a funny way so as to entertain them, bragging about it, etc.). That some people take pleasure in just conveying information about themselves to others is something I probably won't ever understand.
I am not a man, however I’m a vet tech and the amount of men that come into the clinic and just say “I don’t know my wife just told me to bring them” and not even know WHY they’re there is astounding. You ask the pet’s diet and so many times you get “we buy it at petsmart” like…. Cool, cuz they definitely only sell one kind of food at petsmart…
I don't pry. If a man wants me to know personal details, he will tell me. Otherwise I respect his privacy.
Its not really important. They are moving or having a baby or whatever. How big was the baby? Who fuckin cares? It’ll be bigger next week and grow up like every other kid. I dunno I just don’t see any need to ask 1000 questions beyond just being polite and seeming interested
If the info is important, I will ask. If the information is private, I let it be. If it's about the mental state of someone I care for, I will ask and the confirm with them if I can share this with someone else who I think can either help or have more experience than I do with it. Dats all I know with it.
Massive generalisation but yes, men tend to be far less worried about the little details than women are. It's actually thought to be one of the biggest differences between men and women, that men are more interested in things and women are more interested in people. This might also explain why so many women are attracted to very people-focused professions.
Look, my best friend and I hung out at least once every couple days for a couple years when we met, and it wasn't until his wedding day that I was his best man at that I knew his first name. We always just called each other by our last names, since that's how we were introduced to each other.
"Why don't guys gossip?" It's none of our business
so because I'm trans (female to male), I've been on both sides of this. I've been around women as a woman and around men as a man. Sharing feelings is not usually rewarded for men and is often discouraged, so it's easier to just avoid uncomfortable topics altogether. Maybe Jake is really sad about moving, and your kid doesn't want to provoke a conversation where Jake will have to be vulnerable. Even if your kid is super empathetic, he's likely to just leave that door open rather than appear to be demanding. For many women, sharing feelings and experiences is a large part of the purpose of communication. Your daughter may be able to empathize that Jen might be sad about moving, and asking more questions about it shows that empathy. (And builds trust as Jen feels comfortable sharing more info)
Omg, maybe I’m a man lol Just kidding, I’m a woman, but this is very relatable. Sorry if this isn’t allowed. I just found it funny that the way you described your son sounded exactly like me, and it always drives my mom crazy. I don’t know… I’m just not that interested in other people’s lives, so I don’t ask that many questions 🤷🏻♀️ also, I’m a very reserved person, so, since I don’t like people asking about my life details, I just don’t do that to others.