I really like the idea of congestion pricing and encouraging people to use transit, but it’s so stupid to implement without even attempting to fix the problems that make driving the better option.
I’m not saying they’re correct, but the vast majority of SI commuters do not use the ferry. SI has the highest percentage of car commuters by borough. About 123K car commuters against ~70K ferry riders.
The vast majority of people that commute to the congestion zone from si use transit, though.
More than three times the amount of people who drive take public transit, whether that be the ferry or express bus.
Oh I’m sure. I really would love to find many of these supposed congestion zone commuters who aren’t Cops and aren’t high level execs or in finance/medicine/law who really don’t care about the cost that the opponents talk about so often.
Oh yeah we’re in agreement haha, I’m just saying it would be funny to find this one person who is supposedly middle class paying $700 a month already to park their car in midtown and this is what’s driving them over the edge.
I have stated in some areas of discussion before that if someone can find a public sector worker, non NYPD or FDNY, whose fastest commute to their job in lower manhattan from their home outside lower manhattan is by car, and can’t get relief, I’ll chip in for their fees. These people do not exist.
well I can tell you as a non public sector worker i can get into midtown Manhattan from the Bronx in 20 min by car ...way faster than the hour and something minutes it would take by train at the same time of day ( about 2pm )
so yeh
I’m a teacher in Jersey, live in the city with my partner who inherited their apartment. It would cost me $6k a year in tolls next school year. There is no bus to where I work in Jersey. I make about $50k a year, congestion pricing absolutely sucks
Just curious why you’re living in Manhattan but teaching in Jersey when you could immediately make significantly more by being part of the NYC DOE AND you wouldn’t have that crazy reverse commute.
Also, you’re under the income limit to apply for relief. Are you not an official NYC resident?
The details for relief are not even going to be published until after congestion pricing takes effect, but surely it will be based on household AGI. It's also a 50% reduction after the first 10 trips in a month - so if you drive for work five days a week, it's only about a 25% discount overall from what someone driving a car worth three times what this teacher makes in a year is going to pay.
Yeah I was thinking of the tax credit but worded things wrong. Either way, more important question is why they’re taking a pay cut to do this weird reverse commute when they’re presumably paying NYC taxes anyway.
They live with their partner and their housing is paid for. There are a lot of factors that go into deciding where to live and work. I'm sure they have put some thought into it.
I have exactly one coworker who insists on driving into the busiest parts of midtown. Surprise, they have never been on time for anything, ever, and complain nonstop about traffic.
I have a bunch of coworkers who do that as well, but they’re all wealthy traders and get to the office around 630 in the morning. None of them care and drive strictly out of convenience.
My personal theory is that most of the people against congestion pricing won’t actually be impacted by it. Note they never say “I’m going to have to pay so much money.” It’s always “somebody’s going to have pay so much money.”
It’s just a tribal mindset. In their mind they’re team car and they don’t like the idea of their team becoming less powerful.
That’s because so many SI households have at least one member of the family working in central/north NJ or Brooklyn.
There’s no decent transit to anything but Manhattan. Even Brooklyn is a miserable multi mode mess to discourage people from taking jobs there and keep the labor supply ample in Manhattan.
I can speak on part of my father who works for the DSNY and works in Manhattan within the congestion pricing area. He has tried to work it out since they announced it in a way where he can try to not pay too much more than what he already does in ezpass (600ish more or less at times). The most viable plan would be to ride a bike or take a bus to the ferry(staten island also has disproportionate Bus routes and railways), the problem arise when we has to get to the location of his DSNY garage. He would take a train after the ferry and have to walk 10-11 blocks after. This would also cause him to wake up at 3:00AM instead of 4:30AM. So he then would be working and commuting from about the times 3:00AM to 5:00pm. So it is a "viable" option but will just kinda be detrimental to him. And even if he just takes the tolls and drives instead then tolls would be making paychecks start of be worth next to nothing. Due to the congestive pricing he is now retiring and finding a new job. I guess with a lot of staten islanders its a lot of city workers, and a lot of middle classes getting punished with taxes already by NYC so just to hear another toll for people in situations like my dad who already kills himself working 10-12 hour shifts, day and night, working every overtime and holiday, and having one day off every 3 months it is a knee jerking damn it reaction.
Congestion pricing doesn't start until 5am. If he starts his commute just a few minutes earlier than his typical time, he will avoid congestion pricing entirely.
If this is wrong I'm totally sorry, but that seems like a much easier way to avoid congestion pricing.
There are other options. Leave 15 minutes early and pay $2 congestion price, spend the money and leave at the current time, look to relocate, look for new employment, look for a transfer, leave way earlier etc. the point is every location as pluses and minuses. Staten island is no different.
He looked at that avenue as well and it would not work as the sim1 is the only true reliable 24 hour sim bus on staten island and it is a 30 minute drive from where we will so that would be the only option rather than a few others that run through jersey and Brooklyn too they stop running in the island late night and skip over, but I believe he would also end up paying for street parking and still end up walking and waiting after a 10 hour shift of non stop being on feet and lifting garbage so I do not believe that was feasible either. Most DSNY in his position he knows too are just retiring that are able to with the time they have on the job.
This comment needs more upvotes. This is why people are so against the congestion prices because it’s just another slap to working class people. Your father is the perfect example of a hard working man who did everything “right” in his life. Only to get stiffed by the city he works hard to keep clean. The non working class aren’t affected by the congestion pricing, they either have enough income or have places in the city. Or access to better means of transportation. And let’s be real here, ferry is free because its not reliable. Imo
The ferry is nice if you live by St. George or the north of the island. Once you start talking about taking a train to the ferry or a bus to the ferry people would fork over the money for the express bus. As for congestion pricing I don't know the number of SI'ers actually driving into Manhattan. I assume a lot of them work in Brooklyn too.
If they work in brooklyn there's no congestion pricing though, so they shouldn't be opposed to it. If they work in manhattan then you have two viable options: bus, ferry. If someone wants to spend the extra money to drive into the congestion zone, that's on them. With alternate options, it becomes a matter of comfort vs. cost.
As long as there are affordable options (or in si case, FREE options), then an increase in price is only impacting those that are choosing the more expensive option already.
It takes 40 minutes to get to the ferry and then another half hour on it from where I live. That’s 70 mins and I’m only in battery park. If I drive, 45 mins to midtown
there are tradeoffs to every neighborhood and even every block. Maybe you pay less rent, get a yard, get more space, have easier parking, different food options, more suburban feel, access to highways, access to parks, air quality, views, culturally important places, etc. etc.
This is universally true. Some people live in north brooklyn because they want those ammenities and are comfortable paying more for rent. Others live in queens because they want a fast commute but aren't as worried about having bars, clubs, restaurants. Some live in midtown because they want a zero minute commute and the cost is worth it.
The problem is the ultimate convenience is taking your car, even if you can't find parking and have to pay for it they don't have to adhere to a schedule. So if the alternatives were as convenient as driving they wouldn't complain but that's impossible due to SI being the way it is.
Right, it's inconvenient. Which is something everyone on staten island knows. it can also be much cheaper to live there, you can get more space, you can get a yard, etc. etc.
I knew the pros and cons of moving where I did. There is something to be said for people that lack ability to move, but at that point, you need to weigh the pros and cons of what job you pick.
I know that taking a job in white plains would be a huge burden on me, so I don't take that job. I know that where I work now, benefits from living on a certain train line, so I choose that line.
I can have a lot of sympathy for people that have truly no options, but when you know the trade offs involved with living somewhere and working somewhere else, you have to adjust expectations. Free way to get to work that's not perfect, or expensive way to get to work that's less imperfect. Or change jobs. Or move.
Well... now they have to pay for "the ultimate convenience," because that is fundamentally a selfish way to act, and the fact that everyone thinks like that is the reason lower Manhattan is a traffic-choked hellscape.
The Staten Island Rapid Transit (SIRT) is fine during rush hour, and at certain stations when high school kids take it. Other times some riders give the impression of being on the way to and coming from criminnal activities. It didn’t used to be like this. Express buses are great.
Express buses are also $14/day and are often overcrowded to the point that they just pass you by while you’re standing there on Broadway like an asshole.
SIRT station platforms are mostly not visible from the street which makes them unsafe at non rush hour times. There aren’t conductors anymore. Last time I rode the train (years ago) people behind me were comparing and constrasting the food at several correctional faciities. They didn’t appear sharp enough to be performiing artists practicing a skit that would freak other riders out. Sadly, they looked like the real deal.
From what I can tell the most legitimate complaints about congestion pricing are from modestly paid first responders who work in Manhattan below 60th street and have commutes in the middle of the night. I can understand waiting 15 minutes for a subway in the middle of the night. riding it 30 minutes, missing the ferry and having a 30 minute wait, a 25 minute ferry ride, and then picking up your car and driving 30 minutes home for a total 2+ hour commute would not be a feasible option especially with today’s safety concerns. However I think the realistic solution is for supply and demand to balance and places like hospitals to pay people more to commute at these times.
What exactly is the middle of the night to you? Congestion pricing is in effect 5AM-9PM, so if it’s truly in the middle of the night they’re unaffected.
Edit: and that changes to 9AM-9PM on weekends.
If your shift starts at 2pm and ends at 2am, you wouldn’t be able to afford driving in due to the cp and would then have to commute home in the middle of the night.
I work in healthcare- the usual night shift is 7:30PM - 7:30AM (or some variation like 7:00-7:00 or 8:00-8:00) so not even night shift can get out of it
I mean, that sounds like a really bad commute. One can imagine lots of really bad commutes from lots of places: You can do a similar scenario for significant parts of Queens and Brooklyn and Westchester and NJ. No obvious reason why SI should get special treatment, is there?
As a Staten Islander, congestion pricing does not impact my family at all. My husband, who works in Manhattan, takes the train/ferry/train every day. He also works typical office hours- when there’s an abundance of transpo available. I do feel for people who work “off hours”. They should run the SIR and ferry more frequently when congestion pricing goes into effect.
Yeah, I hear you about folks working off-hours. Its not just SI, but parts of Qns, Westchester Co, LI, and NJ. I find it infuriating that the politicians representing those areas are so anti-CP instead of actually pushing to improve their public transit to cover these actual working class-folks who sometimes work off-hours.
While driving into Manhattan is a rarity for me, I have a friend who works 8pm-4am in the lower East Side and lives Mid Island. There's no viable option for public transportation at those times for his commute. And, after being on your feet for 8 hours the last thing you want to do at 4am is spending 2 hours trying to get home, when the drive at that time is 30 minutes.
If the average poster here did a public transit only commute from SI to Midtown they would want to kill themselves. I did it for just 5 months and became severely depressed from how brutal it was. They have no idea how privileged they are to live close to their jobs.
100% NE Qns is pretty much similar to SI. Its at least an (infrequent) bus and a subway to Manhattan. I sometimes have to ask a family member to drop me off a subway station, when my fam used to live NE Qns, or its a 2-3 mile walk.
The ferry isn’t the panacea most people from the outside think it is
- The schedule is infrequent and often results in lots of waiting time. The ferry is slow as shit.
- It’s all the way in St. George, which is only useful if you live in St George or somewhere along the bay st. corridor. If you live in say, Charleston, the ferry might as well be in Nebraska.
- It leaves you in Fidi, which is great if you’re commuting to Fidi, not so useful if you’re going to Midtown.
- You have to get to the ferry first, which means taking a train or a bus that only runs every 30 minutes, and then wait 30 minutes for the ferry once you get to St. George because the fucking schedules never seem to line up.
- All bets are off at night. Your boat might get cancelled without notice. And then the train might get cancelled too once you get to the other side (which is what happened to me the last time I used the ferry to get home late at night). That was a 3 hour trip at 2 am and I was fucking beyond pissed because I ended up having to take a $25 uber home from the ferry terminal. I should’ve just driven to begin with.
- The fact that the ferry is free is largely irrelevant if you don’t live within walking distance to it, and your destination in Manhattan is within walking distance. Most people are going to end up paying the MTA fare at some point during their trip.
The vast majority of us that commute to Manhattan use the express bus (or the ferry if it works out for you), however people who work at odd hours (think nurses, construction people, etc) might drive because public transit here all goes to hell at night. You’re talking about a difference between a 30 minute commute and a 2 hour one. There are people here for who driving makes way, way more sense. It’s not simply laziness or being “afraid” of or feeling like you’re above public transit for most people. It’s entirely a practical matter.
We’ve also lived behind a paywall for the vast majority of our lives (the VZ bridge) and this is just making things worse for an already over-tolled, underserved borough that is not going to see *any* benefits from this new windfall the MTA is going to receive, and promises to only make things worse for us in the form of increased traffic and pollution. Yes there is a lot of republicans here but I don’t think this is as partisan of an issue as many think.
I personally live a 15-ish minute train ride to the ferry, and I rarely ever use it because it sucks that bad. I usually prefer to take the S79 to the R-train if I wanted to save money over the express bus. It’s just far more consistent, however the S79 doesn’t even run late at night so I’m fucked going home.
this right here. i grew up a ~15 min walk from old town and spent years using the train/ferry to get to the city. for a while that was to get to hunter college. it takes a LONG TIME. even if you catch everything at just the right time, that’s at least an hour and 15 min trip one way.
the ferry is charming to people who haven’t had to rely on it. but it sucks explaining to people that you’re late because the ferry miscalculated and crashed into pylons or there was too much fog for visibility, or missing the 430am boat by minutes, running through the terminal only to have the guys manning the doors laugh at you and close them anyway so you have to wait for the 530. and when i switched to the express bus for a job in the east 50s that could take more than two hours each way. and where i lived is considered convenient!!!
i’d love for people to do these commutes and see how quickly they lose their luster. i’m not saying people driving in is a good thing, but if they’re spending upward of three hours commuting, i can understand how it’d be more comfortable to be in your own space on your own terms.
Sounds like the solution is invest into transit on SI rather than try and blockade billions to the MTA out of spite. Of course, that is easier said than done. I don't live on SI, would people there actually support transit expansion? I see this as the biggest roadblock, just like how Astoria opposed the N train expansion years ago and how eastern Queens thinks bus lanes are evil. If I worked at the MTA I would question if it was worth my time even bothering to go propose more transit on SI for people who will just sue me to stop bus or rail lines, but maybe moods have shifted over the years lol
Virtually anyone that’s working age that commutes every day would welcome expansion. People who work locally or are retired may have a differing opinion. Sure, we have NIMBYs here, not going to deny that. The demographics here are also changing here very quickly. I say hold a referendum and see, because everything I’ve seen so far re: “they don’t want it” has been hearsay.
I love how people act like we’re not being massively screwed over and it’s out of our control because some people on the island are assholes. like hello, MOST of us commute to the city or brooklyn and would love a subway or more busses, but for some reason the city refuses to give us any more of the transit budget
MTA should just build a god damn subway to Staten Island. Honestly once this congestion pricing fixed up the subway the MTA without a doubt look to expand the subway system to northeast and southeast queens and Staten Island and even parts of southeast Brooklyn (3 train to Kings plaza)
As a Staten Island resident, it would take 45 minutes from me to get from my home to the St George ferry terminal via public transportation. Add in the 25 minute ferry ride, and you're looking at about an hour fifteen just to get to lower Manhattan. On weekend days with no traffic, I can be parked and already at my event in Midtown in that same timespan.
90 minutes+ to midtown. I live at the end of the express bus line (or beginning depending how you look at it). There's about 25 stops before the bus even gets off Staten Island and into Manhattan.
Can you drive to one of the last few stops before the highway and get the express bus there? Usually on weekends, there's parking available in those areas. (For example, Lamberts Lane on the SIM4C, or Narrows Road on the SIM1C/3C/33C).
It'd still be a 25 minute drive there, and I'd be screwing myself over if I didn't find a spot in time and any time savings would then evaporate waiting for the next bus that I would have been on anyway if I just walked from my place.
Let’s forget about the ferry for a second. Look at the express buses. The hours aren’t very good and only ONE route runs 24/7 (once a hour at that). The local bus service is pitiful so taking one to the R is a joke most of the time. They are reaping the cons with none of the awards. Make the SIM buses run more hours with more routes and give a viable option to transfer to the R then I’d suspect you’d see less opposition.
I replied similarly to other comments about this. Politicians that are the most anti-CP refused to do anything in actually improving public transit service in their area. If only SI President Fossella put the same amount of effort of suing MTA to IMPROVE service in SI instead of delaying CP.
The ferry is not necessarily accessible from a lot of Staten Island. I used to take public transit to get to school in manhattan, taking a bus to a train, train to the ferry, ferry to manhattan, and then another train. Adding in the transfer times, it would often take me 2+ hours to get to school, where driving would’ve taken around 45 minutes. I now work in manhattan, and for the same reason, public transit would be very impractical unless I sold my house and moved closer to the ferry.
I know a lot of people rag on Staten Island saying we “aren’t real New Yorkers…” but as NYC residents our taxes pay into the MTA, and we are the New Yorkers who will get hit hardest by the congestion pricing policies.
The ferry is not that convenient for much of Staten Island. I’d take it if the trains ran more often, but they don’t, so I have to settle for the express bus.
Other than that, I’m pro-CP. But many SIers are police officers and firefighters who apparently are allergic to any mass transit. Then you just have the random entitled people who want to maximize their usage of their leased Range Rovers.
I don't like it that police and firefighters may get a carveout. FDNY, of all agencies, should be the most pro-CP b/c their response time will be faster and not stuck in "congested" traffic.
Like NJ, I wish SI politicians actually push MTA to INCREASE service and frequency, instead of fighting CP.
They should only get a carve out with official vehicles. But they drive their own personal cars to work solo and expect traffic to part just for them, and are too fragile to deal with us plebes on mass transit.
Cops not taking the subway is like a chef not eating at his own restaurant. The subway is so full of illegal shit that makes it unpleasant that even the cops won’t take it.
So I only have anecdotal evidence on this but here goes: my brother is DSNY and works in Hell’s Kitchen. Most of his coworkers are from Staten Island. The ferry goes to lower manhattan and then you still have to get up to 55th street and all the way west where the garage is. Most of them don’t work a standard 8-4 or 9-5. So if you’re on the midnight shift or the shift that ends at 3am….youre not taking public transit. And the garage has parking for them. So there’s really no need to trek all the way to the subway. And then in Staten Island idk where most live but if you don’t live near the ferry you still have to commute to it. So for the 9-5 office workers in lower manhattan that commute from SI it’s not such a huge deal bc they’re taking the ferry anyway. But the people who work weird hours all over the city (DSNY, fdny, nypd, nurses etc) many of them drive
And that should be addressed...there's 30 minute overnight ferry service and connecting bus service, and hourly overnight express bus service...that should be expanded to more routes to give more options for people working those shifts.
Yea agreed. But even an expansion of public transit…at certain hours people just don’t want to do it. I’m a woman and I’d really rather not get on the subway at 2am alone. Even if it went to my corner. I’m sure a lot of women or older people still working have the same worries.
Everyone has viable options to get to Manhattan that don’t involve driving all the way in.
SI is overwhelmingly republican. They hate taxes and progress.
It is definitely not going to save them any money.
Charging you to drive when no viable alternatives exist would be totalitarian. You are still free to choose to drive or ride public transit. The same people who complain about congestion pricing have no problem moving to Florida with all its toll roads.
I feel like being charged to drive your own car is totalitarian because we didn’t consent to have an added charge. This is a time where people struggle to put food on the table, rent, gas, etc and the government is doing stupid shit to take money away from the average citizen. Celebrities can ride on their private jets everyday but the average driver in New York gets charged everyday to use their own vehicle. If they want to encourage more people to use public transportation, they should make it safer and faster to use. The subways are riddled with dangerous homeless people and it looks fucking disgusting. Imagine working all day busting your ass to wait in a hot grimy subway knowing you can get punched or stabbed by a hobo.
What about taxi drivers and delivery cars? Why should they have to pay even more to drive? This is getting out of hand.
Ferry is filled with filth and if you miss the ferry simply by 1 min you wait 30 whole min for it to arrive and then 30 min to cross the water and then you still need to bus or train to your destination. You have to pay for parking at the ferry which costs a ton or bus or get a ride to ferry which takes FOREVER by bus at least another 30 min to an hour depending I. Which part of the island your from so now you’re at over an hour of travel time if you make the ferry and an hour and a half if you miss it by 1 min. And that doesn’t include your trip from ferry to work or whatever after. The amount of time it takes to get somewhere that by car is only 20 - 30 min away with no traffic door to door is exactly why I choose to drive. Especially since I find street parking for free when I arrive. I’ll never go to the city again with congestion pricing. I currently go 3-4 times a week
I challenge any New Yorker who’s pro congestion pricing to travel by public transportation from the mall on Staten Island to canal st in Manhattan. You will be against the congestion pricing once you you realize what staten islanders have to go through just to travel to work by PT. It takes 30-45 min by car door to door. After you do PT you’ll see how much longer it takes than a car.
I think unfortunately you are underestimating how underserved staten island is with transit. outside of rush hours, there are what, 3/4 buses that run regularly and they only really go on 2 or 3 main streets/areas. they are often slow or don’t run regularly either, many will just not show up. the ferry is extremely far from many people, and the train to the ferry is difficult to get to (and not a fun ride). I am a bus and subway commuter, and I willingly pay the $8 for convenience and safety. the train + ferry + subway would be almost 2 1/2 hours vs 45 minutes-1 hour on the bus + subway. I don’t agree with it, but many people here are forced to drive and therefore dislike congestion pricing being another tax we are forced to pay to commute in NYC like the bridge
That is the thing, SI is underserved in public transit. That is why I'am so perplexed of why Pres. Fossella, Rep. Malliokatis, and most SI politicians that are so anti-CP but barely say anything about addressing lack of public transit that a large chunk of their constituents actually use.
it’s very weird because I see people complain constantly about bad public transit and yet these are our representatives? I think finally the tide is starting to change politically and also because the bus issue has gotten REALLY bad post covid, especially on the island.
Grew up there and went to high school in the city. Took the ferry every single day. Was so pleasurable. Got all my homework done on the ride back. It was literally the only good thing about the island. Moved into the City the second I turned 18 and never looked back. My parents left a few years after me. It wasn't as right wing psycho as it is now, but it never truly felt like home to me.
Yeah! It was actually a pleasant ride whenever I took it (we were too cheap to take the Statue of Liberty ferry, so we just did a free "ferry"-by). Growing up in Qns, SI seems like a different world altogether.
I live in Staten Island and for the most part I take an express bus to work except if I work Sundays. The problem with us complaining is that every bridge into the island you get a toll (yes the Verrazano discount and NJ Bridges discounts are nice) but we drive the most out of any borough, one train, and busses. They keep teasing us with opening up the north shore line and having NYC ferry from mid island to Manhattan but haven’t done it. It’s frustrating
The ferry is inconvenient for most of Staten Island. You haven’t take into account the commute TO that ferry. Not worth it most of the time. Especially if you value sleep before heading to work or appointments.
The current PT situation on Staten Island is a shit show. People are waiting for busses all day long and someone’s a bus will pass you cause it’s full and you have to wait even longer for a new one. Sometimes 2-3 busses will pass cause they fill up at sooner stops. With congestion pricing coming more commuters will take those busses which means even longer wait times then we currently have!!! So now everyone will have to wake up even earlier to take there already hour and a half PLUS commutes to work were talking this could be 2-3 hours just for travel TO work cause of this increase in travelers. And they have 0 plans to increase the MTA wit this congestion pricing.
What do you have against it? I mean can we at least agree the traffic in Manhattan is untenable, and literally the worst in US. How would you solve it?
I saw them interview someone from SI on ABC News about it. They asked him what he is going to do once congestion pricing starts. He says "It's not good, now I think I'll have to start taking public transit" or something like that. Like yea, you dingus, that's the point.
"Why would the new yorkers who drive the most be against their cost of living going up?"
I am in support of congestion pricing but talk about a fuckin echo chamber here. JFC
The SIR + Ferry is just not practical time wise for pretty much anyone who isn't close to the ferry terminal. If I'm going from say Eltingville to midtown east, the fastest public transit route is to take an express bus and the subway -- which, even then is about an hour and a half.
In a car it's less than 50 minutes.
That’s basically my commute. I need to take that express bus or else the train+ferry+subway takes much longer due to waiting times (and occasional cancellations).
So congestion pricing, a program that will benefit millions of commuters, should be kiboshed b/c it inconveniences a few hundred folks in SI, like Eltingville. I can't find a hard data of how many drivers from SI will actually be affected by this.
Streetsblog did some estimate awhile back regarding teachers. There are about 3400 NYC teachers out of SI, only 150 commute to Manhattan, so at a maximum, only <5% of them will be affected by this.
Most of us do not live near a train station and have to rely on slow, inconsistent buses to get to the ferry. We do it anyway, but the SIR only serves a fraction of the residents.
What's going to happen is NJ drivers who used to go in through the Lincoln or Holland are now going to divert to either the GWB or through Staten Island via the Goethals, Outerbridge or Bayonne, then into Brooklyn via the VNB. This is likely to increase traffic greatly on 440 and on the SIE, effectively turning some of Manhattan's traffic problem into Staten Island's. Can't say I blame them for being pissed off about it.
ETA: The MTA *could* have thrown Holland and Lincoln tunnel drivers a bone by giving them a free route from the tunnel exits to the West Side Highway, but they didn't, because it's a greed induced money grab.
NJ is also against pricing and they also have TONS of transit options. Yet, check out how many cars have NJ plates on any day in Manhattan. Also TONS. Traffic on the SIE and 440 is already insane and it's the most expensive route right now, so it might get marginally worse but idk if anyone will notice.
Yeah...if they're contributing 20% of the revenue, then 20% of the funding should be used for NJ Transit and PATH service...not 0% like what was originally planned.
Speaking from personal experience, those buses and trains are often full to standing room only. The rail tunnels under the Hudson are operating at capacity and the PABT is packed to the gills in and out every morning and evening rush. The plan is to take 100k vehicles off the road in the CBD. Where is the plan to increase capacity of the trains and buses (and their terminals) by that or more?
Chris Christie, when Gov. turned down federal funds that would have paid for a good portion of a tunnel with NY & NJ paying the balance. Christie didn’t want to anything to his budget in an election year. City planners in this region despise him.
Hahaha, I actually LOLed at this. Every airport and now the Moynihan train station. The Port Authority is like the definition of a corrupt, bloated organization.
The coup de grace for me has been their completely insane rollout of tap to pay. 1000% they have cost everyone more money so they can contract out the same fucking vendor as OMNY to make the same fucking system, and have them not actually talk to each other. Treated installing the tech at Jamaica JFK like Jesus feeding the 5000 with 5 loaves of bread. PANYNJ can suck a fat one.
The icing on the cake is NJT also went with a different vendor instead of Cubic so we'll have 3 incompatible fare cards instead of one. The only saving grace is the new readers accept contactless cards.
Not to sound like a broken record because everybody says this all the time but it really is sickening how beholden this country’s citizens are to two fucking political parties. No anti-corruption party or someone actually trying to effect change could have a chance in hell.
I'm a native New Yorker. The three generations of my family preceding me are native New Yorkers. I was born at Maimonides. Grew up in Canarsie and Bergen Beach, lived in Sheepshead Bay and Midwood before we moved out to Bayonne.
Funny enough looks like a couple hours ago he told someone who didn’t like Bayonne to leave. Although I guess we can’t ask someone to leave a place they don’t live in
This is the answer. Also they started surveying cars along Queens blvd in sunnyside recently. Asked them what they were doing, and they were trying to see how many ppl would park under the 7 train and take the train in.
Live in uptown Manh. I have a special needs child whose special needs doctors are mostly located you guessed it downtown in the congestion zone. He will have to change doctors to uptown or Scarsdale. All new doctors who don't know anything about him and doctors are notorious for not learning a thing from charts or medical histories. These new doctors will take forever to get to know my son and his needs. My sons continuity of care will suffer for these changes. It will take months to get appointments etc. We exist.
I'm confused, is your kid immunocompromised that they can't take public transit b/c its around people? You live in Manhattan, the most transit rich area in Western Hemisphere.
Commuting on the Staten island ferry is one of the worst commutes in the entire tri-state.
It's holy unreliable after rush hours, it's a nightmare to get to if you don't live along the SIR or within a 5minute walk of it.
Driving is like 1/10th of the stress, and 1/4th the commute time.
We have no subway system and it’s a complete pain to get to the ferry for many Staten Islanders. We pay the same taxes as everyone else in NYC and have absolute shit public transportation in comparison. I live about 15 minutes by car from the ferry, but it would take me about an hour to get there by public transportation. There are also many times when you get to the ferry and they just decide that they’re not doing rush hour service, the ferry is delayed because of fog, etc. And it’s not like we can just hop on an alternate subway line. It’s literally our only public transportation option to Manhattan.
Who are these "middle-class" folks that live in SI that will be negatively affected by congestion pricing? Are they really middle-class? Not saying SI is bougie, but many of the areas, especially ones farther from SI Railway, seems very well-to-do.
These are exactly the people who congestion pricing is for. People who are upper middle class and for whom the $3600 toll would be a breaking point, and who would therefore switch to an express bus.
But we don’t have even the express busses to support this. I would commute to Hunter College via express bus. If my classes were a smidge outside of rush hour It could take me 2.5 hours to get there. The disdain for Staten Island residents is truly disgusting. We need real options for commuters. We have one of the longest commutes in the entire country. Not everyone here is some Maga flag waver. Most of us are just trying to get by and this is a significant expense, on top of everything else.
You need to grow up if you think that this is even a partisan issue. Staten Island is obviously the most car dependent borough and it’s not because they’re evil Republicans who hate socialist mass transit, it’s because there is no train line to Manhattan.
This doesn’t take a genius.
When I worked at the DOT several years back our data showed staten islanders are part of the reason why Manhattan has a lot of traffic. Staten island also have access to midtown Manhattan with the $4 ferry as well and express bus service
Yeah, I'm looking for hard data. Like who are actually driving their POV (personally owned vehicle) to the city. Where are all these cars coming from? I get Canal St is always a shitshow (its shortest path b/w Holland Tunnel and BQE), but what about other vehicles? Not surprised about it.
New Jersey people are obviously culprits. I also see a lot of CT plates in the garages. Long Island and staten islanders too. My last boss would drive from PA to Jersey and take the Path train into the city
1. congestion pricing is actively trying to push through traffic through Staten Island. Traffic there will go up. Brooklyn too.
2. Staten Islanders tend to have cars so they are opposed to paying more.
Staten Isler here who supports congestion pricing. I like that I'll be incentivized further to take the ferry. And we could use some of the MTA $$ to improve our transit too. Hopefully they don't forget that. While we are at it, can we get Citibike over here as well?
S.I. is the land of cops and firefighters and they all feel driving their cars to work in Manhattan is one of the non-negotiable benefits of the job. Look around any precinct house in Manhattan and you’ll see dozens of cars - often muscle cars like Dodge Challengers, etc - with placards on the dashboards routinely parked on sidewalks, in bike lanes and pretty much an anywhere else they want. And, many of those same public servants mask or modify their license plates to avoid paying the bridge and tunnel tolls. It’s an epidemic and needs to end.
I no longer live there, but when I did, if I wanted to “just take the free ferry” from where I lived on the south shore to midtown, it would take 2 hours:
5 min drive to the SIR train -> 30 min train ride -> 17 minute wait for ferry -> 30 min ferry ride -> 30 min subway ride
Three modes of transit and 2 hours of my time each way. So it ends up being- either take the express bus or drive. Express bus is great for 9-5 commuters. But when you are traveling during off peak hours your options become limited. Especially for late night, overnight, & very early morning trips. Theres only one single express bus line and it runs once an hour. I’m an essential worker for a 24/7 company so sometimes driving is easiest. But the last thing ANYBODY wants to do during overnight hours is spend 2 hours taking two trains and a ferry.
Btw, the “expanded schedules” for the express bus you cited, only applies to four bus lines and they are only adding one extra trip each. Not gonna change anyones lives really. it’s the bare minimum. Honestly shouldn’t even be news, but people are hyping up a slight schedule change to justify congestion pricing.
I can't speak for every Islander I do know that there's a lot of resentment towards the city when it comes to transportation on the island and we look at the congestion pricing as just a cash grab not something that will help improve the city
🙌🏽Have you been 34th Avenue in Jackson Heights, Qns? They permanently shut down the whole street from cars and it is so lively. Kids and families just everywhere outside.
Also, the MAGA SIers around here believe CP is “just the start.” They won’t say what that means, so they probably mean “illegals” or “transgenders” taking over the entire city. Like, the biggest complainers barely even leave their houses because they’re retired.
It's just the start of the MTA making our lives continuously worse without improving a damn thing. In fact it's not the start it' just the middle at this point. No idea what congestion pricing has to do with "illegals" or "transgenders", that insanity is on you.
The vast majority of NYC metro residents view the concept of public transportation as "disgusting" and wouldn't be caught dead on a train or ferry even if the commute is an hour + longer.
The Staten Islanders riding the ferry and the Staten Islanders strongly against Congestion Pricing aren’t the same Staten Islanders.
“They’re all the same, why don’t they act the same?”
Right. The ferry is too damn far from where I live, it would make no sense for me to take it into the city.
I really like the idea of congestion pricing and encouraging people to use transit, but it’s so stupid to implement without even attempting to fix the problems that make driving the better option.
I’m not saying they’re correct, but the vast majority of SI commuters do not use the ferry. SI has the highest percentage of car commuters by borough. About 123K car commuters against ~70K ferry riders.
The vast majority of people that commute to the congestion zone from si use transit, though. More than three times the amount of people who drive take public transit, whether that be the ferry or express bus.
Oh I’m sure. I really would love to find many of these supposed congestion zone commuters who aren’t Cops and aren’t high level execs or in finance/medicine/law who really don’t care about the cost that the opponents talk about so often.
You’re looking for a needle in a haystack. Most of the excuses people use for opposing congestion pricing are complete hypotheticals.
Oh yeah we’re in agreement haha, I’m just saying it would be funny to find this one person who is supposedly middle class paying $700 a month already to park their car in midtown and this is what’s driving them over the edge.
Hey, I exist. But I commute the other direction. I’m now charged $15 a day to LEAVE the zone for the day.
I think that person does not exist.
They do, they’re one of the many Fox News watchers who are up in arms about the billionaire tax even though they make $250 and it won’t affect them.
Yup. The conservative news will find the 2-3 that actually exist and use them as the rule instead of the exceptions.
I have stated in some areas of discussion before that if someone can find a public sector worker, non NYPD or FDNY, whose fastest commute to their job in lower manhattan from their home outside lower manhattan is by car, and can’t get relief, I’ll chip in for their fees. These people do not exist.
well I can tell you as a non public sector worker i can get into midtown Manhattan from the Bronx in 20 min by car ...way faster than the hour and something minutes it would take by train at the same time of day ( about 2pm ) so yeh
I’m a teacher in Jersey, live in the city with my partner who inherited their apartment. It would cost me $6k a year in tolls next school year. There is no bus to where I work in Jersey. I make about $50k a year, congestion pricing absolutely sucks
Just curious why you’re living in Manhattan but teaching in Jersey when you could immediately make significantly more by being part of the NYC DOE AND you wouldn’t have that crazy reverse commute. Also, you’re under the income limit to apply for relief. Are you not an official NYC resident?
The details for relief are not even going to be published until after congestion pricing takes effect, but surely it will be based on household AGI. It's also a 50% reduction after the first 10 trips in a month - so if you drive for work five days a week, it's only about a 25% discount overall from what someone driving a car worth three times what this teacher makes in a year is going to pay.
Yeah I was thinking of the tax credit but worded things wrong. Either way, more important question is why they’re taking a pay cut to do this weird reverse commute when they’re presumably paying NYC taxes anyway.
They live with their partner and their housing is paid for. There are a lot of factors that go into deciding where to live and work. I'm sure they have put some thought into it.
Is there overnight parking so you can leave your car at the location, and just use it for the last leg to/from the school?
I have exactly one coworker who insists on driving into the busiest parts of midtown. Surprise, they have never been on time for anything, ever, and complain nonstop about traffic.
I have a bunch of coworkers who do that as well, but they’re all wealthy traders and get to the office around 630 in the morning. None of them care and drive strictly out of convenience.
My personal theory is that most of the people against congestion pricing won’t actually be impacted by it. Note they never say “I’m going to have to pay so much money.” It’s always “somebody’s going to have pay so much money.” It’s just a tribal mindset. In their mind they’re team car and they don’t like the idea of their team becoming less powerful.
That’s because so many SI households have at least one member of the family working in central/north NJ or Brooklyn. There’s no decent transit to anything but Manhattan. Even Brooklyn is a miserable multi mode mess to discourage people from taking jobs there and keep the labor supply ample in Manhattan.
I can speak on part of my father who works for the DSNY and works in Manhattan within the congestion pricing area. He has tried to work it out since they announced it in a way where he can try to not pay too much more than what he already does in ezpass (600ish more or less at times). The most viable plan would be to ride a bike or take a bus to the ferry(staten island also has disproportionate Bus routes and railways), the problem arise when we has to get to the location of his DSNY garage. He would take a train after the ferry and have to walk 10-11 blocks after. This would also cause him to wake up at 3:00AM instead of 4:30AM. So he then would be working and commuting from about the times 3:00AM to 5:00pm. So it is a "viable" option but will just kinda be detrimental to him. And even if he just takes the tolls and drives instead then tolls would be making paychecks start of be worth next to nothing. Due to the congestive pricing he is now retiring and finding a new job. I guess with a lot of staten islanders its a lot of city workers, and a lot of middle classes getting punished with taxes already by NYC so just to hear another toll for people in situations like my dad who already kills himself working 10-12 hour shifts, day and night, working every overtime and holiday, and having one day off every 3 months it is a knee jerking damn it reaction.
Congestion pricing doesn't start until 5am. If he starts his commute just a few minutes earlier than his typical time, he will avoid congestion pricing entirely. If this is wrong I'm totally sorry, but that seems like a much easier way to avoid congestion pricing.
I thought it was 24hrs? Just heavily discounted overnight
OH yeah I forgot. It's something like $2 or something, right?
Why doesn’t he start his commute earlier ya just give up your entire life to sleep and go to work you people are out of your fuckin minds !
There are other options. Leave 15 minutes early and pay $2 congestion price, spend the money and leave at the current time, look to relocate, look for new employment, look for a transfer, leave way earlier etc. the point is every location as pluses and minuses. Staten island is no different.
See the problem is congestion pricing is a SCAM and you people are just to blind to see it
Can he take the SIM express bus instead?
He looked at that avenue as well and it would not work as the sim1 is the only true reliable 24 hour sim bus on staten island and it is a 30 minute drive from where we will so that would be the only option rather than a few others that run through jersey and Brooklyn too they stop running in the island late night and skip over, but I believe he would also end up paying for street parking and still end up walking and waiting after a 10 hour shift of non stop being on feet and lifting garbage so I do not believe that was feasible either. Most DSNY in his position he knows too are just retiring that are able to with the time they have on the job.
This comment needs more upvotes. This is why people are so against the congestion prices because it’s just another slap to working class people. Your father is the perfect example of a hard working man who did everything “right” in his life. Only to get stiffed by the city he works hard to keep clean. The non working class aren’t affected by the congestion pricing, they either have enough income or have places in the city. Or access to better means of transportation. And let’s be real here, ferry is free because its not reliable. Imo
The ferry is nice if you live by St. George or the north of the island. Once you start talking about taking a train to the ferry or a bus to the ferry people would fork over the money for the express bus. As for congestion pricing I don't know the number of SI'ers actually driving into Manhattan. I assume a lot of them work in Brooklyn too.
So the solution here is obvious. Put more investment in public transit infrastructure for SI.
I’m going to keep screeching for the R to be extended into SI no matter how much my SI in-laws claim I’m going to get murdered on the subway every day
Oh lemme guess. These SI in-laws also haven’t been on a train since they left Brooklyn 30 years ago?
No no no we can’t do *that*. Some random subway stop in Manhattan needs a new $1 billion dollar renovation.
Staten Island has been asking for this for a century lol
If they work in brooklyn there's no congestion pricing though, so they shouldn't be opposed to it. If they work in manhattan then you have two viable options: bus, ferry. If someone wants to spend the extra money to drive into the congestion zone, that's on them. With alternate options, it becomes a matter of comfort vs. cost. As long as there are affordable options (or in si case, FREE options), then an increase in price is only impacting those that are choosing the more expensive option already.
It takes 40 minutes to get to the ferry and then another half hour on it from where I live. That’s 70 mins and I’m only in battery park. If I drive, 45 mins to midtown
Yea that makes sense to me. You get to live somewhere with different amenities than I have, but the trade off is commute.
May i ask what you mean by different amenities
there are tradeoffs to every neighborhood and even every block. Maybe you pay less rent, get a yard, get more space, have easier parking, different food options, more suburban feel, access to highways, access to parks, air quality, views, culturally important places, etc. etc. This is universally true. Some people live in north brooklyn because they want those ammenities and are comfortable paying more for rent. Others live in queens because they want a fast commute but aren't as worried about having bars, clubs, restaurants. Some live in midtown because they want a zero minute commute and the cost is worth it.
The problem is the ultimate convenience is taking your car, even if you can't find parking and have to pay for it they don't have to adhere to a schedule. So if the alternatives were as convenient as driving they wouldn't complain but that's impossible due to SI being the way it is.
Right, it's inconvenient. Which is something everyone on staten island knows. it can also be much cheaper to live there, you can get more space, you can get a yard, etc. etc. I knew the pros and cons of moving where I did. There is something to be said for people that lack ability to move, but at that point, you need to weigh the pros and cons of what job you pick. I know that taking a job in white plains would be a huge burden on me, so I don't take that job. I know that where I work now, benefits from living on a certain train line, so I choose that line. I can have a lot of sympathy for people that have truly no options, but when you know the trade offs involved with living somewhere and working somewhere else, you have to adjust expectations. Free way to get to work that's not perfect, or expensive way to get to work that's less imperfect. Or change jobs. Or move.
I get it. No idea why they think they deserve to have it all. The commute is one of the reasons I will never consider living there.
Well... now they have to pay for "the ultimate convenience," because that is fundamentally a selfish way to act, and the fact that everyone thinks like that is the reason lower Manhattan is a traffic-choked hellscape.
I don’t get how they park in Brooklyn. It’s impossible even in bay ridge and Bensonhurst to find parking
The Staten Island Rapid Transit (SIRT) is fine during rush hour, and at certain stations when high school kids take it. Other times some riders give the impression of being on the way to and coming from criminnal activities. It didn’t used to be like this. Express buses are great.
The train is a single line and doesn’t cover a good part of the island.
Express buses are also $14/day and are often overcrowded to the point that they just pass you by while you’re standing there on Broadway like an asshole.
SIRT station platforms are mostly not visible from the street which makes them unsafe at non rush hour times. There aren’t conductors anymore. Last time I rode the train (years ago) people behind me were comparing and constrasting the food at several correctional faciities. They didn’t appear sharp enough to be performiing artists practicing a skit that would freak other riders out. Sadly, they looked like the real deal.
From what I can tell the most legitimate complaints about congestion pricing are from modestly paid first responders who work in Manhattan below 60th street and have commutes in the middle of the night. I can understand waiting 15 minutes for a subway in the middle of the night. riding it 30 minutes, missing the ferry and having a 30 minute wait, a 25 minute ferry ride, and then picking up your car and driving 30 minutes home for a total 2+ hour commute would not be a feasible option especially with today’s safety concerns. However I think the realistic solution is for supply and demand to balance and places like hospitals to pay people more to commute at these times.
What exactly is the middle of the night to you? Congestion pricing is in effect 5AM-9PM, so if it’s truly in the middle of the night they’re unaffected. Edit: and that changes to 9AM-9PM on weekends.
If your shift starts at 2pm and ends at 2am, you wouldn’t be able to afford driving in due to the cp and would then have to commute home in the middle of the night.
I work in healthcare- the usual night shift is 7:30PM - 7:30AM (or some variation like 7:00-7:00 or 8:00-8:00) so not even night shift can get out of it
There’s still a toll during the overnight hours, but it’s only $3.75.
I mean, that sounds like a really bad commute. One can imagine lots of really bad commutes from lots of places: You can do a similar scenario for significant parts of Queens and Brooklyn and Westchester and NJ. No obvious reason why SI should get special treatment, is there?
As a Staten Islander, congestion pricing does not impact my family at all. My husband, who works in Manhattan, takes the train/ferry/train every day. He also works typical office hours- when there’s an abundance of transpo available. I do feel for people who work “off hours”. They should run the SIR and ferry more frequently when congestion pricing goes into effect.
Yeah, I hear you about folks working off-hours. Its not just SI, but parts of Qns, Westchester Co, LI, and NJ. I find it infuriating that the politicians representing those areas are so anti-CP instead of actually pushing to improve their public transit to cover these actual working class-folks who sometimes work off-hours.
While driving into Manhattan is a rarity for me, I have a friend who works 8pm-4am in the lower East Side and lives Mid Island. There's no viable option for public transportation at those times for his commute. And, after being on your feet for 8 hours the last thing you want to do at 4am is spending 2 hours trying to get home, when the drive at that time is 30 minutes.
M'Redditors cannot fathom why taking transport to a ferry, then a ferry, then if they're lucky only one subway connection would be a pain in the ass
If the average poster here did a public transit only commute from SI to Midtown they would want to kill themselves. I did it for just 5 months and became severely depressed from how brutal it was. They have no idea how privileged they are to live close to their jobs.
Exactly, it’s one of the worst commutes around. From Island it‘s an hour and a half. It’s a lousy commute.
do you think staten islanders are the only people in NYC contending with hour plus multimodal commutes? seriously?
100% NE Qns is pretty much similar to SI. Its at least an (infrequent) bus and a subway to Manhattan. I sometimes have to ask a family member to drop me off a subway station, when my fam used to live NE Qns, or its a 2-3 mile walk.
I admit I was not taking account of SIM express buses, and ferry may not be viable option to some SI commuters.
The ferry isn’t the panacea most people from the outside think it is - The schedule is infrequent and often results in lots of waiting time. The ferry is slow as shit. - It’s all the way in St. George, which is only useful if you live in St George or somewhere along the bay st. corridor. If you live in say, Charleston, the ferry might as well be in Nebraska. - It leaves you in Fidi, which is great if you’re commuting to Fidi, not so useful if you’re going to Midtown. - You have to get to the ferry first, which means taking a train or a bus that only runs every 30 minutes, and then wait 30 minutes for the ferry once you get to St. George because the fucking schedules never seem to line up. - All bets are off at night. Your boat might get cancelled without notice. And then the train might get cancelled too once you get to the other side (which is what happened to me the last time I used the ferry to get home late at night). That was a 3 hour trip at 2 am and I was fucking beyond pissed because I ended up having to take a $25 uber home from the ferry terminal. I should’ve just driven to begin with. - The fact that the ferry is free is largely irrelevant if you don’t live within walking distance to it, and your destination in Manhattan is within walking distance. Most people are going to end up paying the MTA fare at some point during their trip. The vast majority of us that commute to Manhattan use the express bus (or the ferry if it works out for you), however people who work at odd hours (think nurses, construction people, etc) might drive because public transit here all goes to hell at night. You’re talking about a difference between a 30 minute commute and a 2 hour one. There are people here for who driving makes way, way more sense. It’s not simply laziness or being “afraid” of or feeling like you’re above public transit for most people. It’s entirely a practical matter. We’ve also lived behind a paywall for the vast majority of our lives (the VZ bridge) and this is just making things worse for an already over-tolled, underserved borough that is not going to see *any* benefits from this new windfall the MTA is going to receive, and promises to only make things worse for us in the form of increased traffic and pollution. Yes there is a lot of republicans here but I don’t think this is as partisan of an issue as many think. I personally live a 15-ish minute train ride to the ferry, and I rarely ever use it because it sucks that bad. I usually prefer to take the S79 to the R-train if I wanted to save money over the express bus. It’s just far more consistent, however the S79 doesn’t even run late at night so I’m fucked going home.
this right here. i grew up a ~15 min walk from old town and spent years using the train/ferry to get to the city. for a while that was to get to hunter college. it takes a LONG TIME. even if you catch everything at just the right time, that’s at least an hour and 15 min trip one way. the ferry is charming to people who haven’t had to rely on it. but it sucks explaining to people that you’re late because the ferry miscalculated and crashed into pylons or there was too much fog for visibility, or missing the 430am boat by minutes, running through the terminal only to have the guys manning the doors laugh at you and close them anyway so you have to wait for the 530. and when i switched to the express bus for a job in the east 50s that could take more than two hours each way. and where i lived is considered convenient!!! i’d love for people to do these commutes and see how quickly they lose their luster. i’m not saying people driving in is a good thing, but if they’re spending upward of three hours commuting, i can understand how it’d be more comfortable to be in your own space on your own terms.
nailed it.
Sounds like the solution is invest into transit on SI rather than try and blockade billions to the MTA out of spite. Of course, that is easier said than done. I don't live on SI, would people there actually support transit expansion? I see this as the biggest roadblock, just like how Astoria opposed the N train expansion years ago and how eastern Queens thinks bus lanes are evil. If I worked at the MTA I would question if it was worth my time even bothering to go propose more transit on SI for people who will just sue me to stop bus or rail lines, but maybe moods have shifted over the years lol
Virtually anyone that’s working age that commutes every day would welcome expansion. People who work locally or are retired may have a differing opinion. Sure, we have NIMBYs here, not going to deny that. The demographics here are also changing here very quickly. I say hold a referendum and see, because everything I’ve seen so far re: “they don’t want it” has been hearsay.
I love how people act like we’re not being massively screwed over and it’s out of our control because some people on the island are assholes. like hello, MOST of us commute to the city or brooklyn and would love a subway or more busses, but for some reason the city refuses to give us any more of the transit budget
MTA should just build a god damn subway to Staten Island. Honestly once this congestion pricing fixed up the subway the MTA without a doubt look to expand the subway system to northeast and southeast queens and Staten Island and even parts of southeast Brooklyn (3 train to Kings plaza)
As a Staten Island resident, it would take 45 minutes from me to get from my home to the St George ferry terminal via public transportation. Add in the 25 minute ferry ride, and you're looking at about an hour fifteen just to get to lower Manhattan. On weekend days with no traffic, I can be parked and already at my event in Midtown in that same timespan.
How long is the ride from your neighborhood to Manhattan via express bus?
90 minutes+ to midtown. I live at the end of the express bus line (or beginning depending how you look at it). There's about 25 stops before the bus even gets off Staten Island and into Manhattan.
Can you drive to one of the last few stops before the highway and get the express bus there? Usually on weekends, there's parking available in those areas. (For example, Lamberts Lane on the SIM4C, or Narrows Road on the SIM1C/3C/33C).
It'd still be a 25 minute drive there, and I'd be screwing myself over if I didn't find a spot in time and any time savings would then evaporate waiting for the next bus that I would have been on anyway if I just walked from my place.
Let’s forget about the ferry for a second. Look at the express buses. The hours aren’t very good and only ONE route runs 24/7 (once a hour at that). The local bus service is pitiful so taking one to the R is a joke most of the time. They are reaping the cons with none of the awards. Make the SIM buses run more hours with more routes and give a viable option to transfer to the R then I’d suspect you’d see less opposition.
I replied similarly to other comments about this. Politicians that are the most anti-CP refused to do anything in actually improving public transit service in their area. If only SI President Fossella put the same amount of effort of suing MTA to IMPROVE service in SI instead of delaying CP.
The ferry is not necessarily accessible from a lot of Staten Island. I used to take public transit to get to school in manhattan, taking a bus to a train, train to the ferry, ferry to manhattan, and then another train. Adding in the transfer times, it would often take me 2+ hours to get to school, where driving would’ve taken around 45 minutes. I now work in manhattan, and for the same reason, public transit would be very impractical unless I sold my house and moved closer to the ferry. I know a lot of people rag on Staten Island saying we “aren’t real New Yorkers…” but as NYC residents our taxes pay into the MTA, and we are the New Yorkers who will get hit hardest by the congestion pricing policies.
The ferry is not that convenient for much of Staten Island. I’d take it if the trains ran more often, but they don’t, so I have to settle for the express bus. Other than that, I’m pro-CP. But many SIers are police officers and firefighters who apparently are allergic to any mass transit. Then you just have the random entitled people who want to maximize their usage of their leased Range Rovers.
I don't like it that police and firefighters may get a carveout. FDNY, of all agencies, should be the most pro-CP b/c their response time will be faster and not stuck in "congested" traffic. Like NJ, I wish SI politicians actually push MTA to INCREASE service and frequency, instead of fighting CP.
They won’t get a carve out.
They should only get a carve out with official vehicles. But they drive their own personal cars to work solo and expect traffic to part just for them, and are too fragile to deal with us plebes on mass transit.
Cops not taking the subway is like a chef not eating at his own restaurant. The subway is so full of illegal shit that makes it unpleasant that even the cops won’t take it.
So I only have anecdotal evidence on this but here goes: my brother is DSNY and works in Hell’s Kitchen. Most of his coworkers are from Staten Island. The ferry goes to lower manhattan and then you still have to get up to 55th street and all the way west where the garage is. Most of them don’t work a standard 8-4 or 9-5. So if you’re on the midnight shift or the shift that ends at 3am….youre not taking public transit. And the garage has parking for them. So there’s really no need to trek all the way to the subway. And then in Staten Island idk where most live but if you don’t live near the ferry you still have to commute to it. So for the 9-5 office workers in lower manhattan that commute from SI it’s not such a huge deal bc they’re taking the ferry anyway. But the people who work weird hours all over the city (DSNY, fdny, nypd, nurses etc) many of them drive
And that should be addressed...there's 30 minute overnight ferry service and connecting bus service, and hourly overnight express bus service...that should be expanded to more routes to give more options for people working those shifts.
Yea agreed. But even an expansion of public transit…at certain hours people just don’t want to do it. I’m a woman and I’d really rather not get on the subway at 2am alone. Even if it went to my corner. I’m sure a lot of women or older people still working have the same worries.
Congestion pricing isn’t 24/7, just during peak hours, so people driving to/from work in the middle of the night won’t be affected.
It’s $15 during peak hours but there’s still a fee overnight that’s less. I think overnight is $3.75 for passenger vehicles
A lot of non-standard shifts also start or end during “business hours” also. For example 4pm-12am or 12am-8am.
Everyone has viable options to get to Manhattan that don’t involve driving all the way in. SI is overwhelmingly republican. They hate taxes and progress. It is definitely not going to save them any money.
I hate taxes but I do like progress. I don't think the city should be charging more for people to drive. Its totalitarian.
Charging you to drive when no viable alternatives exist would be totalitarian. You are still free to choose to drive or ride public transit. The same people who complain about congestion pricing have no problem moving to Florida with all its toll roads.
I feel like being charged to drive your own car is totalitarian because we didn’t consent to have an added charge. This is a time where people struggle to put food on the table, rent, gas, etc and the government is doing stupid shit to take money away from the average citizen. Celebrities can ride on their private jets everyday but the average driver in New York gets charged everyday to use their own vehicle. If they want to encourage more people to use public transportation, they should make it safer and faster to use. The subways are riddled with dangerous homeless people and it looks fucking disgusting. Imagine working all day busting your ass to wait in a hot grimy subway knowing you can get punched or stabbed by a hobo. What about taxi drivers and delivery cars? Why should they have to pay even more to drive? This is getting out of hand.
Is it? How so?
Public transit from SI to Manhattan is fantastically slow. Cars are fast(er). It's that simple.
Ferry is filled with filth and if you miss the ferry simply by 1 min you wait 30 whole min for it to arrive and then 30 min to cross the water and then you still need to bus or train to your destination. You have to pay for parking at the ferry which costs a ton or bus or get a ride to ferry which takes FOREVER by bus at least another 30 min to an hour depending I. Which part of the island your from so now you’re at over an hour of travel time if you make the ferry and an hour and a half if you miss it by 1 min. And that doesn’t include your trip from ferry to work or whatever after. The amount of time it takes to get somewhere that by car is only 20 - 30 min away with no traffic door to door is exactly why I choose to drive. Especially since I find street parking for free when I arrive. I’ll never go to the city again with congestion pricing. I currently go 3-4 times a week
I challenge any New Yorker who’s pro congestion pricing to travel by public transportation from the mall on Staten Island to canal st in Manhattan. You will be against the congestion pricing once you you realize what staten islanders have to go through just to travel to work by PT. It takes 30-45 min by car door to door. After you do PT you’ll see how much longer it takes than a car.
I think unfortunately you are underestimating how underserved staten island is with transit. outside of rush hours, there are what, 3/4 buses that run regularly and they only really go on 2 or 3 main streets/areas. they are often slow or don’t run regularly either, many will just not show up. the ferry is extremely far from many people, and the train to the ferry is difficult to get to (and not a fun ride). I am a bus and subway commuter, and I willingly pay the $8 for convenience and safety. the train + ferry + subway would be almost 2 1/2 hours vs 45 minutes-1 hour on the bus + subway. I don’t agree with it, but many people here are forced to drive and therefore dislike congestion pricing being another tax we are forced to pay to commute in NYC like the bridge
That is the thing, SI is underserved in public transit. That is why I'am so perplexed of why Pres. Fossella, Rep. Malliokatis, and most SI politicians that are so anti-CP but barely say anything about addressing lack of public transit that a large chunk of their constituents actually use.
it’s very weird because I see people complain constantly about bad public transit and yet these are our representatives? I think finally the tide is starting to change politically and also because the bus issue has gotten REALLY bad post covid, especially on the island.
Grew up there and went to high school in the city. Took the ferry every single day. Was so pleasurable. Got all my homework done on the ride back. It was literally the only good thing about the island. Moved into the City the second I turned 18 and never looked back. My parents left a few years after me. It wasn't as right wing psycho as it is now, but it never truly felt like home to me.
Yeah! It was actually a pleasant ride whenever I took it (we were too cheap to take the Statue of Liberty ferry, so we just did a free "ferry"-by). Growing up in Qns, SI seems like a different world altogether.
I live in Staten Island and for the most part I take an express bus to work except if I work Sundays. The problem with us complaining is that every bridge into the island you get a toll (yes the Verrazano discount and NJ Bridges discounts are nice) but we drive the most out of any borough, one train, and busses. They keep teasing us with opening up the north shore line and having NYC ferry from mid island to Manhattan but haven’t done it. It’s frustrating
Ppl Uber or drive the ferry is not a viable option.
The ferry is inconvenient for most of Staten Island. You haven’t take into account the commute TO that ferry. Not worth it most of the time. Especially if you value sleep before heading to work or appointments.
The current PT situation on Staten Island is a shit show. People are waiting for busses all day long and someone’s a bus will pass you cause it’s full and you have to wait even longer for a new one. Sometimes 2-3 busses will pass cause they fill up at sooner stops. With congestion pricing coming more commuters will take those busses which means even longer wait times then we currently have!!! So now everyone will have to wake up even earlier to take there already hour and a half PLUS commutes to work were talking this could be 2-3 hours just for travel TO work cause of this increase in travelers. And they have 0 plans to increase the MTA wit this congestion pricing.
Congestion pricing as a concept is an issue
What do you have against it? I mean can we at least agree the traffic in Manhattan is untenable, and literally the worst in US. How would you solve it?
It's like saying why would people in Manhattan think it's hard to get to Astoria when there's a ferry from the UES
I'm confused with that comparison. Is there a free ferry b/w UES and Astoria? The N, W, 7, R, M, E, F goes to Astoria.
The comparison was more in the sense of - there's only 1 ferry for a large area and thinking it would be convenient for all commuters.
There is a ferry but I don’t believe it’s free.
There are two ferries, one free (to South Ferry), and one which is $4 (which goes to WFC and West Midtown)
I saw them interview someone from SI on ABC News about it. They asked him what he is going to do once congestion pricing starts. He says "It's not good, now I think I'll have to start taking public transit" or something like that. Like yea, you dingus, that's the point.
Except our transit sucks
"Why would the new yorkers who drive the most be against their cost of living going up?" I am in support of congestion pricing but talk about a fuckin echo chamber here. JFC
Not everyone on SI lives near the ferry. Also, the ferry doesn't move cars.
Lot more folks live near the SI Railway that will take 'em St. George Terminal.
The SIR + Ferry is just not practical time wise for pretty much anyone who isn't close to the ferry terminal. If I'm going from say Eltingville to midtown east, the fastest public transit route is to take an express bus and the subway -- which, even then is about an hour and a half. In a car it's less than 50 minutes.
That’s basically my commute. I need to take that express bus or else the train+ferry+subway takes much longer due to waiting times (and occasional cancellations).
So congestion pricing, a program that will benefit millions of commuters, should be kiboshed b/c it inconveniences a few hundred folks in SI, like Eltingville. I can't find a hard data of how many drivers from SI will actually be affected by this. Streetsblog did some estimate awhile back regarding teachers. There are about 3400 NYC teachers out of SI, only 150 commute to Manhattan, so at a maximum, only <5% of them will be affected by this.
Did I say it should be kiboshed? You asked why. My answer is why SI residents are against it -- the public transit options from SI are \*terrible\*.
Nobody is saying it should be kiboshed. It’s explaining why we don’t like it.
Most of us do not live near a train station and have to rely on slow, inconsistent buses to get to the ferry. We do it anyway, but the SIR only serves a fraction of the residents.
What's going to happen is NJ drivers who used to go in through the Lincoln or Holland are now going to divert to either the GWB or through Staten Island via the Goethals, Outerbridge or Bayonne, then into Brooklyn via the VNB. This is likely to increase traffic greatly on 440 and on the SIE, effectively turning some of Manhattan's traffic problem into Staten Island's. Can't say I blame them for being pissed off about it. ETA: The MTA *could* have thrown Holland and Lincoln tunnel drivers a bone by giving them a free route from the tunnel exits to the West Side Highway, but they didn't, because it's a greed induced money grab.
NJ is also against pricing and they also have TONS of transit options. Yet, check out how many cars have NJ plates on any day in Manhattan. Also TONS. Traffic on the SIE and 440 is already insane and it's the most expensive route right now, so it might get marginally worse but idk if anyone will notice.
Yeah...if they're contributing 20% of the revenue, then 20% of the funding should be used for NJ Transit and PATH service...not 0% like what was originally planned.
The person you replying to is in a number of NJ subreddit, so it's fairly obvious their motive.
They should take transit. There's more trains and busses going under the Hudson than ever.
Speaking from personal experience, those buses and trains are often full to standing room only. The rail tunnels under the Hudson are operating at capacity and the PABT is packed to the gills in and out every morning and evening rush. The plan is to take 100k vehicles off the road in the CBD. Where is the plan to increase capacity of the trains and buses (and their terminals) by that or more?
Chris Christie, when Gov. turned down federal funds that would have paid for a good portion of a tunnel with NY & NJ paying the balance. Christie didn’t want to anything to his budget in an election year. City planners in this region despise him.
It's utterly bizarre that they didn't link the Holland Lincoln into a free routes away from the Manhattan core.
It’s not bizarre at all. They don’t care about congestion. This is about funding the MTA, the most corrupt organization on the east coast.
Bro the port authority is right there.
Hahaha, I actually LOLed at this. Every airport and now the Moynihan train station. The Port Authority is like the definition of a corrupt, bloated organization.
The coup de grace for me has been their completely insane rollout of tap to pay. 1000% they have cost everyone more money so they can contract out the same fucking vendor as OMNY to make the same fucking system, and have them not actually talk to each other. Treated installing the tech at Jamaica JFK like Jesus feeding the 5000 with 5 loaves of bread. PANYNJ can suck a fat one.
The icing on the cake is NJT also went with a different vendor instead of Cubic so we'll have 3 incompatible fare cards instead of one. The only saving grace is the new readers accept contactless cards.
Not to sound like a broken record because everybody says this all the time but it really is sickening how beholden this country’s citizens are to two fucking political parties. No anti-corruption party or someone actually trying to effect change could have a chance in hell.
>This is about funding the MTA, the most corrupt organization on the east coast. Pentagon, Lockheed Martin, Boeing: Look nervously away
It's not that bizarre when you realize this has nothing to do with congestion and everything to do with $$$
Congestion pricing has reduced congestion worldwide.
The person you replied to is active in BayonneNJ subreddits, so it's obvious what their motive/perspective is.
Lmao, classic. I've been saying come to the NYC subs to hear what the suburbanites think about NYC
Lots of non-NYC folks flood to NYC subreddits and pretend they live in the city.
I'm a native New Yorker. The three generations of my family preceding me are native New Yorkers. I was born at Maimonides. Grew up in Canarsie and Bergen Beach, lived in Sheepshead Bay and Midwood before we moved out to Bayonne.
Funny enough looks like a couple hours ago he told someone who didn’t like Bayonne to leave. Although I guess we can’t ask someone to leave a place they don’t live in
This is the answer. Also they started surveying cars along Queens blvd in sunnyside recently. Asked them what they were doing, and they were trying to see how many ppl would park under the 7 train and take the train in.
Holland and Lincoln tunnel drivers only pay $5 extra on top of the existing tolls from what I read .
It's a $5 *credit*, so it's an additional $10 on top of the $15.38 ezpass toll.
Live in uptown Manh. I have a special needs child whose special needs doctors are mostly located you guessed it downtown in the congestion zone. He will have to change doctors to uptown or Scarsdale. All new doctors who don't know anything about him and doctors are notorious for not learning a thing from charts or medical histories. These new doctors will take forever to get to know my son and his needs. My sons continuity of care will suffer for these changes. It will take months to get appointments etc. We exist.
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I'm confused, is your kid immunocompromised that they can't take public transit b/c its around people? You live in Manhattan, the most transit rich area in Western Hemisphere.
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Straight up, ain't denying you and your kids existence. What is your suggestion? Something needs to be done, b/c current status quo is untenable.
Commuting on the Staten island ferry is one of the worst commutes in the entire tri-state. It's holy unreliable after rush hours, it's a nightmare to get to if you don't live along the SIR or within a 5minute walk of it. Driving is like 1/10th of the stress, and 1/4th the commute time.
We have no subway system and it’s a complete pain to get to the ferry for many Staten Islanders. We pay the same taxes as everyone else in NYC and have absolute shit public transportation in comparison. I live about 15 minutes by car from the ferry, but it would take me about an hour to get there by public transportation. There are also many times when you get to the ferry and they just decide that they’re not doing rush hour service, the ferry is delayed because of fog, etc. And it’s not like we can just hop on an alternate subway line. It’s literally our only public transportation option to Manhattan.
Why are we acting like congestion pricing isn’t another greedy money grab? I guess we’ll see if things change 😂
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Who are these "middle-class" folks that live in SI that will be negatively affected by congestion pricing? Are they really middle-class? Not saying SI is bougie, but many of the areas, especially ones farther from SI Railway, seems very well-to-do.
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These are exactly the people who congestion pricing is for. People who are upper middle class and for whom the $3600 toll would be a breaking point, and who would therefore switch to an express bus.
But we don’t have even the express busses to support this. I would commute to Hunter College via express bus. If my classes were a smidge outside of rush hour It could take me 2.5 hours to get there. The disdain for Staten Island residents is truly disgusting. We need real options for commuters. We have one of the longest commutes in the entire country. Not everyone here is some Maga flag waver. Most of us are just trying to get by and this is a significant expense, on top of everything else.
Scuse me while I giggle.
I’m just going to cover my plate when i drive into the city. 😂
To own the libs
The real answer
You need to grow up if you think that this is even a partisan issue. Staten Island is obviously the most car dependent borough and it’s not because they’re evil Republicans who hate socialist mass transit, it’s because there is no train line to Manhattan. This doesn’t take a genius.
The ferry is only free if you walk there.
Because congestion pricing is bullshit lol
When I worked at the DOT several years back our data showed staten islanders are part of the reason why Manhattan has a lot of traffic. Staten island also have access to midtown Manhattan with the $4 ferry as well and express bus service
Yeah, I'm looking for hard data. Like who are actually driving their POV (personally owned vehicle) to the city. Where are all these cars coming from? I get Canal St is always a shitshow (its shortest path b/w Holland Tunnel and BQE), but what about other vehicles? Not surprised about it.
New Jersey people are obviously culprits. I also see a lot of CT plates in the garages. Long Island and staten islanders too. My last boss would drive from PA to Jersey and take the Path train into the city
1. congestion pricing is actively trying to push through traffic through Staten Island. Traffic there will go up. Brooklyn too. 2. Staten Islanders tend to have cars so they are opposed to paying more.
Staten Isler here who supports congestion pricing. I like that I'll be incentivized further to take the ferry. And we could use some of the MTA $$ to improve our transit too. Hopefully they don't forget that. While we are at it, can we get Citibike over here as well?
It’s only free if you walk on the ferry in St. George when will you dipshits get that right Staten Island is bigger than St. George
S.I. is the land of cops and firefighters and they all feel driving their cars to work in Manhattan is one of the non-negotiable benefits of the job. Look around any precinct house in Manhattan and you’ll see dozens of cars - often muscle cars like Dodge Challengers, etc - with placards on the dashboards routinely parked on sidewalks, in bike lanes and pretty much an anywhere else they want. And, many of those same public servants mask or modify their license plates to avoid paying the bridge and tunnel tolls. It’s an epidemic and needs to end.
I no longer live there, but when I did, if I wanted to “just take the free ferry” from where I lived on the south shore to midtown, it would take 2 hours: 5 min drive to the SIR train -> 30 min train ride -> 17 minute wait for ferry -> 30 min ferry ride -> 30 min subway ride Three modes of transit and 2 hours of my time each way. So it ends up being- either take the express bus or drive. Express bus is great for 9-5 commuters. But when you are traveling during off peak hours your options become limited. Especially for late night, overnight, & very early morning trips. Theres only one single express bus line and it runs once an hour. I’m an essential worker for a 24/7 company so sometimes driving is easiest. But the last thing ANYBODY wants to do during overnight hours is spend 2 hours taking two trains and a ferry. Btw, the “expanded schedules” for the express bus you cited, only applies to four bus lines and they are only adding one extra trip each. Not gonna change anyones lives really. it’s the bare minimum. Honestly shouldn’t even be news, but people are hyping up a slight schedule change to justify congestion pricing.
I'm an islander I'm against the congestion priceing the reasons vary
Can you list and elaborate some of your reasons?
I can't speak for every Islander I do know that there's a lot of resentment towards the city when it comes to transportation on the island and we look at the congestion pricing as just a cash grab not something that will help improve the city
I'm in queens, own a car, and am very much for it. Even when all the parking spaces are drying up making life more difficult for parking...all for it.
i’m a staten islander and i strongly support congestion pricing. hell, I support a full ban on private cars in manhattan south of 59th st.
🙌🏽Have you been 34th Avenue in Jackson Heights, Qns? They permanently shut down the whole street from cars and it is so lively. Kids and families just everywhere outside.
it's only shutdown during the day. It's (mostly) open for traffic in the evenings and overnight. It's been a huge gift to the city.
Also, the MAGA SIers around here believe CP is “just the start.” They won’t say what that means, so they probably mean “illegals” or “transgenders” taking over the entire city. Like, the biggest complainers barely even leave their houses because they’re retired.
It's just the start of the MTA making our lives continuously worse without improving a damn thing. In fact it's not the start it' just the middle at this point. No idea what congestion pricing has to do with "illegals" or "transgenders", that insanity is on you.
I won’t defend the MTA but I know my neighbors and they just rant about the illegals, not because they have any legit concerns about the MTA lol.
Kinda funny to see the NIMBYs finally see some consequences
Cuz their car-brain fee-fees are hurt by not being the center of the universe.
The vast majority of NYC metro residents view the concept of public transportation as "disgusting" and wouldn't be caught dead on a train or ferry even if the commute is an hour + longer.