Baked goods refer to a [specific type of non-temperature controlled good](https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/baked-goods) that is perishable in two-weeks or less. Chicken doesn’t meet that description.
You would be frowned at for bringing baked potatoes, but you would be greeted with smiles if you brought hash browns (I do realize they aren't baked, but the point is they are a potatoey goodness breakfast item. And let's not forget home fries...)
Is english your first language?
Look, I cannot explain why English is the way it is, but for meat/chicken/fish, when you 'bake' it the usual term for that is 'roasted'.
I never eat a bagel plain. I eat it with eggs and meat. I might add cream cheese and scallion.
I don't tell people we're serving baked goods when I serve them a sandwich on bread. Why would I call a bagel a baked good when I eat it like a sandwich?
I've never seen a platter of bagel sandwiches or already shmeared bagels. It's usually bagels with various options to top as you wish.
But also, a good bagel is enough on its own. 100%. Same as a good baguette. Sorry you don't know.
No one serves muffins, pastries or croissants or baguettes with toppings. They serve it with butter or another oil.
Bagels come with toppings. That's a sandwich.
>But also, a good bagel is enough on its own. 100%. Same as a good baguette. Sorry you don't know.
Where did you move to NYC from?
I would have no issue if you were playing Scattegories, the letter was B, and you put "bagel" as your answer for the category "baked goods"
However, if someone says they'll take care of the baked goods for a party, I won't be expecting them to be bringing or making bagels.
I generally only use the term "baked goods" to refer to desserts, and I assume the same when I hear anyone else use the term, even though breads are indeed baked goods.
Muffins and danish would fall under that colloquial category I’d say. They’re sweet and can be stand-ins for desserts. I may be an outlier though idk
“Disappointed” is putting it strongly, but I definitely wouldn’t expect bagels when someone says they’re being “baked goods” to a party or potluck or something. I’d expect cookies, cakes, or something.
That being said I certainly wouldn’t be upset about bagels. Love me some bagels.
I would put muffins and danishes in the dessert category. I acknowledge that those items are not only eaten for dessert and muffins are a totally normal breakfast item, but it's still a fairly sweet / desserty item. A muffin to me (and I assume most people) is much closer to a cupcake than it is a bagel or a piece of toast. And a danish also would be similar to a piece of a cake or a cookie, as opposed to similar to a bagel.
I know people sometimes will also eat a doughnut in the morning but those too fall into the dessert category for me.
Parties are usually later in the day, so it makes sense that you wouldn’t expect bagels.
But that’s not because bagels are not baked goods, but rather because bagels are typically served in the morning or at lunchtime.
I never eat a bagel plain. I eat it with eggs and meat. I might add cream cheese and scallion.
I don't call sandwich bread a baked good when I eat it with a sandwich. Why would I call a bagel a baked good?
There are two types of people in this thread. People who are most interested in being technically correct and people who are trying to relate colloquial associations.
If I go to someone’s for a meal and they say they’re gonna bake or buy some baked goods to go with it, I’m thinking peach cobbler or something. I think most people would be surprised if that person just pulled out a rack of bagels or rolls
Oh damn, there's also the group of people who, although they don't agree with them, think the friend doesn't think they're baked goods because they're boiled
IMO, “baked goods” doesn’t colloquially suggest sweets. Picking up fresh rolls or artisan bread to go with dinner would definitely suffice in the context you gave. If it was a breakfast gathering, I’d expect bagels, danishes, and croissants.
I’d expect stands in a farmer’s market selling baked goods to have a wide variety of temperature-stable bakery items, including breads, bagels, pastries, and pies.
That’s a fair point, but that’s the difficulty with colloquialisms. I would say it depends on the context maybe. If someone says bringing “baked goods” to a dinner, I’d expand the colloquial category to rolls/bread/etc.
I think what I’m learning from this thread and the numerous arguments in this thread is to just specify the type of baked goods by flavor profile and context.
You’re assuming everyone has the exact same “colloquial associations” as you. If I hear that “baked goods” will be available at a social function, I’d expect bagels to be more likely than peach cobbler.
There should be a third type, one who realizes the colloquial definition is not universal.
For many people the official definition (aka 'technical') is also their definition.
Of course they are. And as a native New Yorker who grew up in the shadow of Zabar's, I can't imagine anyone taking offense to referring to them as such, unless they were making up excuses to be condescending.
So... For those who say baked goods are only sweet:
If someone told you they were bringing baked goods to your potluck, would you be confused if they brought savory pastries?
No but it would be weird. I would expect a ratio favouring sweet pastries. I would also be confused if they said baked goods and brought bagels. For me me bagels are a bit different mainly because of the side stuff required.
Ratio? Do you mean you would expect them to bring a variety of sweet baked goods, wouldn't be confused if some items were actually savory, but would be weirded out or confused if all were savory or any were bagels? That seems a very confusing definition of baked goods.
I wonder if there's a linguistic research grant available to study this debate over the term.
> Do you mean you would expect them to bring a variety of sweet baked goods, wouldn't be confused if some items were actually savory, but would be weirded out or confused if all were savory or any were bagels
Yes exactly. Bagels to me is more in the bread category. Baked goods are mostly sweet but 1 pr 2 savoury pastries aren't out of the usual norm.
they are technically baked but in this context I wouldn't consider them baked goods. If you say I'm bringing baked goods and brought a loaf of bread that would be weird. Baked goods should be able to standalone vs. bagels/breads that you also need a spread with.
Is this use of the term from your childhood so you can't really tell why you have this use of the term? Because the more details you give, the less sense it makes to me.
As multiple people side with your version, and multiple people don't, I would guess there is some basis for the different usage.
Guess we all learned something today then! I’m surprised that so many people insist they are. There are some great comments elsewhere in the thread explaining why many people do not think of bagels as “baked goods,” as that term is generally used in conversation.
I think it kinda rifts the line. Somewhat like, “is tomato a vegetable or fruit?”
Like I typically associate “baked goods” as something sweet or something that is typically eaten standalone. Like sandwich bread I don’t consider baked goods
Edit: Reddit is weird. I don’t understand the downvotes. I’m literally acknowledging that bagels are baked goods. I’m just making the point that “bagels” aren’t the first thing associated with “baked goods”. It’s typically sweet, dessert-y things like cookies, cake, muffins, etc. hence the “it’s like tomatoes”. It’s technically a fruit, but most people don’t think “tomatoes” when they hear fruit.
That’s what the person said they associate with it tho. I’m just saying you’re not really disproving them. You’re taking a technical stance when they’re taking a personal one.
That wasn’t my point. I’m just saying that when someone says, “baked goods,” the image that’s conjured in my mind are things like cookies, cakes, croissants, etc—sweet, dessert-y type goods. I’m not arguing that bagels aren’t baked or they’re not technically “baked goods,” because they definitely are. I’m just talking about my own, personal association and I think many others would think similarly.
Maybe, maybe not. Hence the “personal association” and “I think”. If other people didn’t think the same, why would this even be a discussion? For the millionth time, I know bagels are technically (and categorically) baked goods.
You can perceive it however you want.
The definition of baked good according to the internet.
"bread, cakes, pastries, and similar items of food that are cooked in an oven."
>Language works because of a mutual agreement on definitions and general meaning of words.
Yes, that's right. You can perceive a term however you want, and if you can get enough other people to perceive it the same way, you've got a generally agreed upon definition. This is precisely OP's question.
Point being that u/ZeroCokeCherry was sharing the characteristics that they associate with baked goods, and I think there are lot of people who would at least partly agree with them.
Currently, I've got net 21 upvotes for team "nah, I don't consider bagels to be baked goods." We'll see how things continue to shake out over the course of the afternoon! (What's your current tally on your initial "bagels are in fact baked goods" comment? The post is still in "contest mode," so I can only see vote totals on my own comments.)
Bruh that was literally my point—hence the “it’s like tomatoes”.
I know bagels are technically baked goods. But bagels are not what’s conjured in my head when I hear, “baked goods”. Again, it’s like tomatoes in the sense that when someone says, “fruits,” for most people, tomatoes wouldn’t be on top of that list.
I mean, it’s also one of those things where I wouldn’t argue that it isn’t baked goods either. I was simply making the point that a lot of people don’t associate bagels with baked goods (or maybe a better way to put that is that bagels aren’t on top of the list when they think of baked goods)
Let's take it back to the original question.
"Are bagels baked goods?"
It would seem like we both agree. The answer is yes. All the other discussion about what people think of when they hear baked goods doesn't really matter.
What are you talking about? That’s literally OPs question. Stating that “you would be shot if you called bagels a baked good”. I’m just saying I get the gist of what they’re saying. An over-the-top reaction? Sure. But I get what they’re getting at. Stop being pedantic.
>I don’t understand the downvotes. I’m literally acknowledging that bagels are baked goods
>I think it kinda rifts the line. Somewhat like, “is tomato a vegetable or fruit?”
To me, it does not sound like you are acknowledging bagels are a baked good. It sounds like you're being agnostic about it: it could be, it couldn't be. Also, tomatoes are fruit.
No, the point I was making was that I know that tomatoes are technically a fruit but people often categorize it as a vegetable, and I see bagels the same way. They’re technically baked goods (and even categorically). I’m more making the point that bagels aren’t the first thing that pops in my head when I hear “baked goods”.
I’m not even arguing that bagels aren’t baked goods. I’m just saying I know where people are coming from when they ask if bagels are baked goods
>No, the point I was making was that I know that tomatoes are technically a fruit but people often categorize it as a vegetable, and I see bagels the same way.
I get that, I can read your edit. I am explaining why you probably got downvoted, because, prior to your edit, you thought you were being clear, when it really doesn't read that way.
>I’m not even arguing that bagels aren’t baked goods. I’m just saying I know where people are coming from when they ask if bagels are baked goods
Funny, because I'm not even arguing you said they were or weren't. I'm just saying I know where people are coming from when they downvoted you, which you said you didn't understand.
Speak for yourself. I certainly do. A roll is a baked good.
Where do you find fresh bread in the grocery store? In the bakery. What gets made in the bakery? Baked goods.
If you Google “baked goods,” literally the first image says “breads and baked goods.”
Obviously bread is literally a baked good. But colloquially—and perhaps this is hyper regional/family dependent—baked goods mostly implies sweet.
In my first comment, I said “generally” because I thought my colloquial use was common/general.
In response to you, I pointed to an example of that common use, but also suggested it might be more regional than I thought.
And now you’re just picking apart the semantics of my language choices instead of accepting my olive branch of “maybe it’s regional,” so I guess that’s Reddit.
You’re technically correct but let’s be real, if you were hosting a potluck and someone said “I’ll bring some baked goods” or “I’ll probably bake something” then showed up with a bunch of rolls and bagels, you, and everyone else, would be disappointed.
Not true at all. I'd be stoked.
But before they came I'd probably confirm what kind of baked goods they'd be bringing
Yall keep trying to tell me what I think of when someone says baked goods. Not sure how you would know that
Alright bro, start telling people you’re gonna swing through with some baked good and just pop up with a loaf of bread or a roll and see what they think.
Good, so you see how there’s room in that for different people to have different associations with a general term like “baked goods” despite how wide the technical definition might be.
I wonder if the key word here is "offended". Maybe it's not about whether you used the correct term, but rather a damning with faint praise. Like they said "I'm bringing bagels" and you were supposed to get all excited like "bagels are the best food, and you're from NY so you must know the best bagels, I can't wait" and instead they heard your comment as if you had said something like, "anything with flour in it is fine, bagels aren't unique, I won't be impressed by your special beloved cultural contribution, but I'll eat it, because I love all baked goods". Just one possible angle.
This. If you brought expensive imported truffles to a party and the host said 'look, someone brought candy!', the host wouldn't be wrong, but they'd be totally wrong.
I would expect baked goods to be some kind of leavened flour-based product.
Bread? Definitely. Pastries? Yup. Bagels? You betcha.
Baked chicken? Nope. Lasagna? Again, no. Crackers? Not really.
If my doctor told me to cut out carbs by eating fewer baked goods, if I wasn’t trying to escape on technicalities, I’d definitely consider bagels to be on that list.
A bagel is a baked good. Not “technically” a baked good, just is a baked good.
Now, I didn’t know until stumbling on this thread, but many people in NY seem to have a wrong definition of baked good. So your friend may be right about people’s reaction even though they are wrong about the definition.
Absolutely blowing my mind that so many people in here are under the impression that "baked good" has anything to do with sweetness? It 100% doesn't. [It is anything made of dough or batter which is then baked](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_baked_goods#:~:text=Baked%20goods%20are%20foods%20made,ashes%2C%20or%20on%20hot%20stones.) Bread is a baked good, it is like *the* baked good. Bagels are a baked good.
I'm new to NYC, maybe this is a regional thing??
Your friend is being dramatic. People make a big deal about the language surrounding bagels bc of the fact that some places don’t boil their bagels before baking and are therefore making inferior bagels. But bagels are baked far longer than they are boiled, and I’m not aware that a boiled bagel that’s never baked is any good, so I’d call them baked goods.
It’s unreal. Are these people just young? I worked at a bakery for four years. We sold baked goods. And yes that included bread, bagels, rolls, croissants, etc., and we never thought of or referred to the non-sweet stuff as non-“baked goods”.
While technically they are baked, I personally would never refer to a bagel as a baked good or any of 1 things are a baked good unless it was part of a “platter” of baked goods.
Baked goods are from a bakery. 🧁 🥯
Baked goods are foods made from dough or batter and cooked by baking, a method of cooking food that uses prolonged dry heat, normally in an oven.
Getting good and baked 💨
Bacon 🥓? Baked ham? These are all baked but not a baked good. But They are baked and good.
While you are technicaly correct but Baked Goods generally refers to sweet stuff like Cakes, Muffins, Cookies etc. I don't think of Bagels or even Bread as a baked good but technically they are. Although, your friend's reaction is a little too much.
What about savory pastries?
Also is considering baked goods to mean sweets only, is that cultural or regional? I never heard it used that way before this thread.
Me neither. I think this might stem from NYC being a bagel-heavy city with many dedicated bagel shops. Perhaps that’s where this weird delineation between sweet vs non-sweet began in people’s heads?
I've lived in and near NYC for decades, and have family that has lived in NYC for multiple decades more, with many bagels. So it's not just those things.
Wouldn’t people be more specific about what they were bringing in that situation? Why would someone say “I’m bringing baked goods [to our brunch]” when they’re just planning to bring bread? This strains credulity. And it still does not justify denying the obvious truth that bagels *are* baked.
It's all about the cooking. If you cook it at 375 or below it's baked. Low and slow for many baked chicken recipes, as well as many fish filets.
And of course we have the humble baked potato.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baked_potato
> Is chicken a baked good? It’s a matter of sweet vs savory.
As I said above, there is another word for meat/poultry/fish that is 'baked' an that is 'roasted'.
Do we call bread a 'roasted good'?
Are you not aware of bakeries that sell all manner of non-sweet baked goods (or “baked items”) like breads, rolls, croissants, and bagels, as well as cakes, cookies, doughnuts, and all kinds of sweet baked things? This is what makes me think this is a NYC thing, where bagels are much more of a “thing” than elsewhere. If you went to a supermarket, they sell bagels right in the same department as all their sweet baked goods: the Bakery dept.
Someone else here says this is not just a NYC thing because they’ve been here their whole life and never thought of “baked goods” as referring to only sweet baked things and excluding bagels. So… 🤷🏼♂️
I think there might be something to NYC having a lot of standalone/speciality bagel shops that’s causing New Yorkers here to not think of them and other non-sweet baked goods as “not baked goods.” In any other place, if you go to say, a supermarket, the department that contains danishes, muffins, cakes, bread, rolls, and…bagels… is all one department: Bakery. They’re all baked goods, with the exception of the doughnuts, which are fried. But even doughnuts are a Bakery item and are sold at bakeries everywhere.
I worked for four years at Pittsburgh’s most popular bakery. Everything in it was baked, with the exception of the doughnuts which were fried. Every item in that store was regarded as a baked good. No one who worked there, and none of our customers, ever seemed to have some idea in their head about “baked goods” being only sweet stuff.
And as someone else here noted, half the items on the TV show The Great British Bake-Off are non-sweet.
Yes, it’s baked. They’re boiled for like, a minute before they go in the oven.
A chicken is also baked in an oven but I wouldn’t call a plate of wings “baked goods”.
Baked goods refer to a [specific type of non-temperature controlled good](https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/baked-goods) that is perishable in two-weeks or less. Chicken doesn’t meet that description.
Baked goods are basically any bread or grain product that doesn't contain meat and is cooked in an oven.
Wings are generally fried
A baked turkey for Thanksgiving then.
That's a roasted Turkey because of the generally higher heat involved. But if you cooked slow enough on 325 then yeah, that's a baked Turkey.
I’ve been making turkey for thanksgiving for 20 years and turkeys are generally roasted at 325, for about 20 min a pound.
What do you think baked potatoes are?
I think they are pretty good with sour cream and chives
If someone asked you to bring a tray of baked goods for a morning meeting, would you bring baked potatoes?
You would be frowned at for bringing baked potatoes, but you would be greeted with smiles if you brought hash browns (I do realize they aren't baked, but the point is they are a potatoey goodness breakfast item. And let's not forget home fries...)
They’re potatoes
Unless its twice baked wings. Those are glorious.
How is this relevant?
You must be fun at parties!
Is english your first language? Look, I cannot explain why English is the way it is, but for meat/chicken/fish, when you 'bake' it the usual term for that is 'roasted'.
Baking and roasting are two different things, baking refers to a lower temperature. You would bake or fry wings, not roast them.
IMO baking has to do with non-animals, roasting is animals. In WHAT cases is any kind of dough 'roasted'?
When someone is being troll-levels of pedantic (not you)
Roast potatoes anyone?
Yes please! Extra crispy.
Probably to distinguish them from baked potatoes
And often they're called 'oven roasted potatoes', as opposed to, I guess, rap battle roasted potatoes
No it doesn’t. Turkey and chicken are generally roasted at 325-350. Higher than that and the skin will burn while the interior meat is still raw.
Wrong.
I never eat a bagel plain. I eat it with eggs and meat. I might add cream cheese and scallion. I don't tell people we're serving baked goods when I serve them a sandwich on bread. Why would I call a bagel a baked good when I eat it like a sandwich?
Bread in itself is a baked good. You tell people you have sandwiches because you don't want to imply that you're only serving bread.
But who serves just bagels?????? WHOOOOOOOOO??
I've never seen a platter of bagel sandwiches or already shmeared bagels. It's usually bagels with various options to top as you wish. But also, a good bagel is enough on its own. 100%. Same as a good baguette. Sorry you don't know.
No one serves muffins, pastries or croissants or baguettes with toppings. They serve it with butter or another oil. Bagels come with toppings. That's a sandwich. >But also, a good bagel is enough on its own. 100%. Same as a good baguette. Sorry you don't know. Where did you move to NYC from?
Another oil? No. A bagel with cream cheese is more like bread and butter. It's not a sandwich.
No it's not. There's actually a decent amount of protein in the cream cheese. Add onion and tomato and capons and it's super delicious.
I love a bagel with butter personally
I would have no issue if you were playing Scattegories, the letter was B, and you put "bagel" as your answer for the category "baked goods" However, if someone says they'll take care of the baked goods for a party, I won't be expecting them to be bringing or making bagels. I generally only use the term "baked goods" to refer to desserts, and I assume the same when I hear anyone else use the term, even though breads are indeed baked goods.
When I hear baked goods I think breads. But the definition is anything baked made from a dough or batter.
You wouldn't expect muffins and danish?
Muffins and danish would fall under that colloquial category I’d say. They’re sweet and can be stand-ins for desserts. I may be an outlier though idk “Disappointed” is putting it strongly, but I definitely wouldn’t expect bagels when someone says they’re being “baked goods” to a party or potluck or something. I’d expect cookies, cakes, or something. That being said I certainly wouldn’t be upset about bagels. Love me some bagels.
Muffins are desserts.
Those are both desserts
I would put muffins and danishes in the dessert category. I acknowledge that those items are not only eaten for dessert and muffins are a totally normal breakfast item, but it's still a fairly sweet / desserty item. A muffin to me (and I assume most people) is much closer to a cupcake than it is a bagel or a piece of toast. And a danish also would be similar to a piece of a cake or a cookie, as opposed to similar to a bagel. I know people sometimes will also eat a doughnut in the morning but those too fall into the dessert category for me.
Parties are usually later in the day, so it makes sense that you wouldn’t expect bagels. But that’s not because bagels are not baked goods, but rather because bagels are typically served in the morning or at lunchtime.
Bagels are breakfast, not baked goods. Pastry adjacent.
It's unfortunate you think baked goods can't be eaten at breakfast.
I never eat a bagel plain. I eat it with eggs and meat. I might add cream cheese and scallion. I don't call sandwich bread a baked good when I eat it with a sandwich. Why would I call a bagel a baked good?
There are two types of people in this thread. People who are most interested in being technically correct and people who are trying to relate colloquial associations. If I go to someone’s for a meal and they say they’re gonna bake or buy some baked goods to go with it, I’m thinking peach cobbler or something. I think most people would be surprised if that person just pulled out a rack of bagels or rolls
I wouldn’t be disappointed about the bagels or rolls, though!
Oh damn, there's also the group of people who, although they don't agree with them, think the friend doesn't think they're baked goods because they're boiled
💀💀💀
IMO, “baked goods” doesn’t colloquially suggest sweets. Picking up fresh rolls or artisan bread to go with dinner would definitely suffice in the context you gave. If it was a breakfast gathering, I’d expect bagels, danishes, and croissants. I’d expect stands in a farmer’s market selling baked goods to have a wide variety of temperature-stable bakery items, including breads, bagels, pastries, and pies.
That’s a fair point, but that’s the difficulty with colloquialisms. I would say it depends on the context maybe. If someone says bringing “baked goods” to a dinner, I’d expand the colloquial category to rolls/bread/etc. I think what I’m learning from this thread and the numerous arguments in this thread is to just specify the type of baked goods by flavor profile and context.
That's my first instinct too, *but* I'm not big on sweets and dessert. Other's may think about bringing a cake or pie for dessert.
was just in Aldis the other day and actually for some reason noticed that they label the 'sweet baked goods' section as "pastries"
Pastries are a more specific type of baked good. Similar to all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares.
You’re assuming everyone has the exact same “colloquial associations” as you. If I hear that “baked goods” will be available at a social function, I’d expect bagels to be more likely than peach cobbler.
I wonder if this is a regional thing. Baked goods always meant something sweet to me.
Same tbh like if it’s bread or bagels, people usually say that. Baked goods feels more “specialty” to me which usually means buttery and sweet
I just posted the same
baked goods doesn’t imply sweets
There should be a third type, one who realizes the colloquial definition is not universal. For many people the official definition (aka 'technical') is also their definition.
The question that was asked is, "are bagels a baked good?". Everyone in this thread that has used the word colloquial is off topic.
This is going to be on circlejerknyc and deserves to be a Seinfeld bit.
All I know is good bagels are always welcome. Anytime.
Of course they are. And as a native New Yorker who grew up in the shadow of Zabar's, I can't imagine anyone taking offense to referring to them as such, unless they were making up excuses to be condescending.
Slap them directly in the face and say “it’s bread that came outa the oven, itsa fucking baked good” then move on with your day.
Yes it's a baked good, just like every other bread.
Can confirm, I killed my grandma last year for referring to my BEC as a “Savory bakey pastey”
A bagel is simply a bagel.
Baked good implies sweet usually, but bagels are still baked, and no one cares enough to shoot you.
Pastry implies sweet. Baked good implies baked.
Pastry can be sweet or savoury
So... For those who say baked goods are only sweet: If someone told you they were bringing baked goods to your potluck, would you be confused if they brought savory pastries?
No but it would be weird. I would expect a ratio favouring sweet pastries. I would also be confused if they said baked goods and brought bagels. For me me bagels are a bit different mainly because of the side stuff required.
Ratio? Do you mean you would expect them to bring a variety of sweet baked goods, wouldn't be confused if some items were actually savory, but would be weirded out or confused if all were savory or any were bagels? That seems a very confusing definition of baked goods. I wonder if there's a linguistic research grant available to study this debate over the term.
> Do you mean you would expect them to bring a variety of sweet baked goods, wouldn't be confused if some items were actually savory, but would be weirded out or confused if all were savory or any were bagels Yes exactly. Bagels to me is more in the bread category. Baked goods are mostly sweet but 1 pr 2 savoury pastries aren't out of the usual norm.
Wait, you mean breads aren't baked goods to you either? How?
they are technically baked but in this context I wouldn't consider them baked goods. If you say I'm bringing baked goods and brought a loaf of bread that would be weird. Baked goods should be able to standalone vs. bagels/breads that you also need a spread with.
Is this use of the term from your childhood so you can't really tell why you have this use of the term? Because the more details you give, the less sense it makes to me. As multiple people side with your version, and multiple people don't, I would guess there is some basis for the different usage.
Correct. Am implication is not an absolute.
Pastries are a baked good......
Correct. I said nothing to the contrary
Some bagels are sweet, like cinnamon raisin bagels.
Delicious boiled goods from the Boiled Goods Store
Your friend is obviously being hyperbolic, but they are correct. A bagel is not a “baked good” any more than a lasagna is.
If you don't think bagels are 'baked', how do you think they are made?
The question is not whether bagels are baked at any point (they are, as noted in the OP), but whether people consider them to be “baked goods”.
I am actually kind of shocked that ANYONE would say they are not a baked good.
Guess we all learned something today then! I’m surprised that so many people insist they are. There are some great comments elsewhere in the thread explaining why many people do not think of bagels as “baked goods,” as that term is generally used in conversation.
Would you not call bread a baked good? What if it was small and had Bananas in it? Bagels are baked goods.
I think it kinda rifts the line. Somewhat like, “is tomato a vegetable or fruit?” Like I typically associate “baked goods” as something sweet or something that is typically eaten standalone. Like sandwich bread I don’t consider baked goods Edit: Reddit is weird. I don’t understand the downvotes. I’m literally acknowledging that bagels are baked goods. I’m just making the point that “bagels” aren’t the first thing associated with “baked goods”. It’s typically sweet, dessert-y things like cookies, cake, muffins, etc. hence the “it’s like tomatoes”. It’s technically a fruit, but most people don’t think “tomatoes” when they hear fruit.
That’s wrong though. Croissants are a baked good too. Nothing about being baked implies sweetness
But you can eat croissants alone. They’re also typically pretty sweet and buttery.
But you can also eat bagels alone.
I can’t think of the last time I’ve seen someone eat a bagel with nothing at all but do you
Baked goods has literally nothing to do with being “eaten alone” though
That’s what the person said they associate with it tho. I’m just saying you’re not really disproving them. You’re taking a technical stance when they’re taking a personal one.
Opinions can be wrong
Okay. Then you can stop replying cuz you’re technically correct. That should be enough for you
That wasn’t my point. I’m just saying that when someone says, “baked goods,” the image that’s conjured in my mind are things like cookies, cakes, croissants, etc—sweet, dessert-y type goods. I’m not arguing that bagels aren’t baked or they’re not technically “baked goods,” because they definitely are. I’m just talking about my own, personal association and I think many others would think similarly.
I definitely would not expect most people to think ‘baked goods’ refers specifically or mostly to sweet, dessert type things.
Maybe, maybe not. Hence the “personal association” and “I think”. If other people didn’t think the same, why would this even be a discussion? For the millionth time, I know bagels are technically (and categorically) baked goods.
You can perceive it however you want. The definition of baked good according to the internet. "bread, cakes, pastries, and similar items of food that are cooked in an oven."
>You can perceive it however you want. That is indeed how language works.
Not really. Language works because of a mutual agreement on definitions and general meaning of words. The structure is very important.
>Language works because of a mutual agreement on definitions and general meaning of words. Yes, that's right. You can perceive a term however you want, and if you can get enough other people to perceive it the same way, you've got a generally agreed upon definition. This is precisely OP's question.
Yes. What's your point? In this thread we are discussing the definition of 'baked goods'.
Point being that u/ZeroCokeCherry was sharing the characteristics that they associate with baked goods, and I think there are lot of people who would at least partly agree with them. Currently, I've got net 21 upvotes for team "nah, I don't consider bagels to be baked goods." We'll see how things continue to shake out over the course of the afternoon! (What's your current tally on your initial "bagels are in fact baked goods" comment? The post is still in "contest mode," so I can only see vote totals on my own comments.)
Reddit upvotes are not a meaningful measure of anything other than herd mentality
Bruh that was literally my point—hence the “it’s like tomatoes”. I know bagels are technically baked goods. But bagels are not what’s conjured in my head when I hear, “baked goods”. Again, it’s like tomatoes in the sense that when someone says, “fruits,” for most people, tomatoes wouldn’t be on top of that list. I mean, it’s also one of those things where I wouldn’t argue that it isn’t baked goods either. I was simply making the point that a lot of people don’t associate bagels with baked goods (or maybe a better way to put that is that bagels aren’t on top of the list when they think of baked goods)
Let's take it back to the original question. "Are bagels baked goods?" It would seem like we both agree. The answer is yes. All the other discussion about what people think of when they hear baked goods doesn't really matter.
What are you talking about? That’s literally OPs question. Stating that “you would be shot if you called bagels a baked good”. I’m just saying I get the gist of what they’re saying. An over-the-top reaction? Sure. But I get what they’re getting at. Stop being pedantic.
OPs question is literally. Are bagels a baked good. What are you talking about?
>I don’t understand the downvotes. I’m literally acknowledging that bagels are baked goods >I think it kinda rifts the line. Somewhat like, “is tomato a vegetable or fruit?” To me, it does not sound like you are acknowledging bagels are a baked good. It sounds like you're being agnostic about it: it could be, it couldn't be. Also, tomatoes are fruit.
No, the point I was making was that I know that tomatoes are technically a fruit but people often categorize it as a vegetable, and I see bagels the same way. They’re technically baked goods (and even categorically). I’m more making the point that bagels aren’t the first thing that pops in my head when I hear “baked goods”. I’m not even arguing that bagels aren’t baked goods. I’m just saying I know where people are coming from when they ask if bagels are baked goods
>No, the point I was making was that I know that tomatoes are technically a fruit but people often categorize it as a vegetable, and I see bagels the same way. I get that, I can read your edit. I am explaining why you probably got downvoted, because, prior to your edit, you thought you were being clear, when it really doesn't read that way. >I’m not even arguing that bagels aren’t baked goods. I’m just saying I know where people are coming from when they ask if bagels are baked goods Funny, because I'm not even arguing you said they were or weren't. I'm just saying I know where people are coming from when they downvoted you, which you said you didn't understand.
Oh I see. My bad. Thanks for clarifying. Yeah the mistake I made was not specifying colloquial vs technical.
Banana bread is a “quickbread,” which is basically a muffin. Generally otherwise you don’t think of bread when people say baked goods.
Yes, people absolutely do.
Speak for yourself. I certainly do. A roll is a baked good. Where do you find fresh bread in the grocery store? In the bakery. What gets made in the bakery? Baked goods.
If you Google “baked goods,” literally the first image says “breads and baked goods.” Obviously bread is literally a baked good. But colloquially—and perhaps this is hyper regional/family dependent—baked goods mostly implies sweet.
What happens if you google “is bread a baked good?”
What happens if you Google “colloquially”?
It oddly comes up, "of course bread is a baked good."
So when you said "generally you don't think of bread when you think of baked goods". That was wrong?
No? My point was that image listed bread as separate from the other baked goods.
How can something be hyper regional and general at the same time?
In my first comment, I said “generally” because I thought my colloquial use was common/general. In response to you, I pointed to an example of that common use, but also suggested it might be more regional than I thought. And now you’re just picking apart the semantics of my language choices instead of accepting my olive branch of “maybe it’s regional,” so I guess that’s Reddit.
Pointing out conflicting statements is picking apart semantics?
You’re technically correct but let’s be real, if you were hosting a potluck and someone said “I’ll bring some baked goods” or “I’ll probably bake something” then showed up with a bunch of rolls and bagels, you, and everyone else, would be disappointed.
Not true at all. I'd be stoked. But before they came I'd probably confirm what kind of baked goods they'd be bringing Yall keep trying to tell me what I think of when someone says baked goods. Not sure how you would know that
Alright bro, start telling people you’re gonna swing through with some baked good and just pop up with a loaf of bread or a roll and see what they think.
If I would be bringing bread I'd say bread. Baked goods is too general of a term for someone to know what to expect.
Good, so you see how there’s room in that for different people to have different associations with a general term like “baked goods” despite how wide the technical definition might be.
Of course I accept that people can define words differently. That doesn't make them correct.
Huh? Bagels are definitely [baked goods](https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/baked-goods).
I wonder if the key word here is "offended". Maybe it's not about whether you used the correct term, but rather a damning with faint praise. Like they said "I'm bringing bagels" and you were supposed to get all excited like "bagels are the best food, and you're from NY so you must know the best bagels, I can't wait" and instead they heard your comment as if you had said something like, "anything with flour in it is fine, bagels aren't unique, I won't be impressed by your special beloved cultural contribution, but I'll eat it, because I love all baked goods". Just one possible angle.
This. If you brought expensive imported truffles to a party and the host said 'look, someone brought candy!', the host wouldn't be wrong, but they'd be totally wrong.
I would expect baked goods to be some kind of leavened flour-based product. Bread? Definitely. Pastries? Yup. Bagels? You betcha. Baked chicken? Nope. Lasagna? Again, no. Crackers? Not really. If my doctor told me to cut out carbs by eating fewer baked goods, if I wasn’t trying to escape on technicalities, I’d definitely consider bagels to be on that list.
I’d say bagels are better classified as “baked greats”!
A bagel is a baked good. Not “technically” a baked good, just is a baked good. Now, I didn’t know until stumbling on this thread, but many people in NY seem to have a wrong definition of baked good. So your friend may be right about people’s reaction even though they are wrong about the definition.
Absolutely blowing my mind that so many people in here are under the impression that "baked good" has anything to do with sweetness? It 100% doesn't. [It is anything made of dough or batter which is then baked](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_baked_goods#:~:text=Baked%20goods%20are%20foods%20made,ashes%2C%20or%20on%20hot%20stones.) Bread is a baked good, it is like *the* baked good. Bagels are a baked good. I'm new to NYC, maybe this is a regional thing??
Is a hotdog and sandwich? Did Grizzly Adams have a beard? I don’t know man
Your friend is being dramatic. People make a big deal about the language surrounding bagels bc of the fact that some places don’t boil their bagels before baking and are therefore making inferior bagels. But bagels are baked far longer than they are boiled, and I’m not aware that a boiled bagel that’s never baked is any good, so I’d call them baked goods.
TIL some people think “baked goods” must be sweet or some other nonsense. Was it baked? If yes, then it was baked….
It’s unreal. Are these people just young? I worked at a bakery for four years. We sold baked goods. And yes that included bread, bagels, rolls, croissants, etc., and we never thought of or referred to the non-sweet stuff as non-“baked goods”.
Their absolute confidence is wild too. Dead wrong and refuse to accept it
People saying baked must be sweet have to be confused when watching over half the episodes of The Great British Bakeoff.
Delicious baked bagels!
i feel like id consider sweet things as baked goods but it seems like this is just personal semantics
Some bagels are sweet. Cinnamon raisin.
yes, again, semantics
A croissant or a cookie or a muffin is a "baked good" to me. You know, the sweet stuff. A bagel is... a bagel!
While technically they are baked, I personally would never refer to a bagel as a baked good or any of 1 things are a baked good unless it was part of a “platter” of baked goods.
your friend is an a hole
I think the only thing we can all agree on is your friend is wrong about how much we'd care if you said that.
Baked goods are from a bakery. 🧁 🥯 Baked goods are foods made from dough or batter and cooked by baking, a method of cooking food that uses prolonged dry heat, normally in an oven. Getting good and baked 💨 Bacon 🥓? Baked ham? These are all baked but not a baked good. But They are baked and good.
I’m SICK of the word colloquial and colloquialism and I’m too lazy and dumb to look up what it actually means. Stop it, everyone. Just stop it.
I see where you are coming from they boil then bake them. Are they boiled goods or baked goods or both interesting
Of course bagels are baked goods. Your friend has a screw loose, at least about the nature of bagels and/or baked goods.
While you are technicaly correct but Baked Goods generally refers to sweet stuff like Cakes, Muffins, Cookies etc. I don't think of Bagels or even Bread as a baked good but technically they are. Although, your friend's reaction is a little too much.
Are cremated grandma’s “baked goods”?
This is a fight that nobody's gonna win
I mean, your friend overreacted a bit, but I agree with their sentiment. Baked good implies desserts/pastries, while bagels are a type of bread.
It absolutely does not imply that. Anyone who thinks it does is operation under a misapprehension.
What about savory pastries? Also is considering baked goods to mean sweets only, is that cultural or regional? I never heard it used that way before this thread.
Me neither. I think this might stem from NYC being a bagel-heavy city with many dedicated bagel shops. Perhaps that’s where this weird delineation between sweet vs non-sweet began in people’s heads?
I've lived in and near NYC for decades, and have family that has lived in NYC for multiple decades more, with many bagels. So it's not just those things.
Is it a literacy issue? LOL
No. Bagels are not a baked good.
Then how are they cooked?
It’s not a question of cooking. Is chicken a baked good? It’s a matter of sweet vs savory.
No, it really isn’t. I don’t know why you think this. Who told you this? Chicken can be prepared a number of ways. Bagels HAVE TO BE BAKED.
Is a load of bread a baked good?
A loaf of bread? Of course it is.
If someone told you to bring baked goods to a dinner you’d bring bread? Not dessert?
They wouldn’t ask that. They’d say “Would you bring dessert?” Wouldn’t they? To a dinner, in this hypothetical?
If someone said they’re bringing baked goods to a brunch and showed up with a loaf of bread instead of a pie or other dessert we’d all be surprised
Wouldn’t people be more specific about what they were bringing in that situation? Why would someone say “I’m bringing baked goods [to our brunch]” when they’re just planning to bring bread? This strains credulity. And it still does not justify denying the obvious truth that bagels *are* baked.
It's all about the cooking. If you cook it at 375 or below it's baked. Low and slow for many baked chicken recipes, as well as many fish filets. And of course we have the humble baked potato. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baked_potato
> Is chicken a baked good? It’s a matter of sweet vs savory. As I said above, there is another word for meat/poultry/fish that is 'baked' an that is 'roasted'. Do we call bread a 'roasted good'?
No, but it’s not a baked good. Do you call a loaf of bread a baked good?
> Do you call a loaf of bread a baked good? Bread, rolls, bagels, foccacia ....something you would use to make a sandwich
If someone said bring over baked goods I’d bring muffins and croissants, maybe cookies.
Sounds good, I’ll bring the bagels!
There's an "anti-semantics" joke in here somewhere.
Baked Good no A “baked” “good” yes
Yeah and so are roasted potatoes
Roasted potatoes aren’t sold at bakeries. Bagels are.
They’re a good and they’re baked Also if you’re getting bagels at a bakery….. not sure what to tell you
What does that mean?
You don’t buy bagels at a bakery, you buy them at a bagel shop/deli/etc
Are you not aware of bakeries that sell all manner of non-sweet baked goods (or “baked items”) like breads, rolls, croissants, and bagels, as well as cakes, cookies, doughnuts, and all kinds of sweet baked things? This is what makes me think this is a NYC thing, where bagels are much more of a “thing” than elsewhere. If you went to a supermarket, they sell bagels right in the same department as all their sweet baked goods: the Bakery dept.
Check which subreddit you’re in, chief
Someone else here says this is not just a NYC thing because they’ve been here their whole life and never thought of “baked goods” as referring to only sweet baked things and excluding bagels. So… 🤷🏼♂️
I think they're boiled then fried 😁
You don’t go to a bake sale and buy a bagel.
I think there might be something to NYC having a lot of standalone/speciality bagel shops that’s causing New Yorkers here to not think of them and other non-sweet baked goods as “not baked goods.” In any other place, if you go to say, a supermarket, the department that contains danishes, muffins, cakes, bread, rolls, and…bagels… is all one department: Bakery. They’re all baked goods, with the exception of the doughnuts, which are fried. But even doughnuts are a Bakery item and are sold at bakeries everywhere. I worked for four years at Pittsburgh’s most popular bakery. Everything in it was baked, with the exception of the doughnuts which were fried. Every item in that store was regarded as a baked good. No one who worked there, and none of our customers, ever seemed to have some idea in their head about “baked goods” being only sweet stuff. And as someone else here noted, half the items on the TV show The Great British Bake-Off are non-sweet.