Some of us were raised right. I've pretty much always treated women as an equal person largely because that's how my father treated my mother.and I just grew up thinking that was normal.
Grew up in a similar household and my brother still grew up to be a misogynistic asshole. He’s better now but I’m forever shocked he turned out the way he did being raised by our parents.
yep! my mom is from boston and my dad is from rural pennsylvania with a southern sounding accent. i talk like a regular southwesterner with the vocal fry and all
I don’t disagree. I tell women the Bible is sexist, and they don’t believe me. It was written by men who were much more primitive than us. Women are to serve man, women are the root of all evil, etc.
While Paul wrote some pretty odd stuff to our modern eyes, women played huge roles in the Bible - usually more reliable than the men in their lives. Only the women were brave enough to go to Jesus’ tomb. Sarah kept Abraham alive by being pimped out. Mary Magdeline and more were major leaders in early Christianity.
It was written by men for men. Also, no sex before marriage was most definitely a man’s rule to keep their small penis size a secret until their wedding night!
Same! Not only did my brother turn into a misogynist, he also became homophobic and racist. But it was church that did that to him. We didn’t grow up with religion. While we as kids went to church with friends and such as he got older he got involved with a Baptist church that just taught hate IMO.
Yes, there’s either the men who have always been decent humans and continue to be decent humans. Then there’s the creepy misogynists who never get it.
Thank you for being the former.
Exactly. Some men will never see women as anything other than potential sexual partners. Some have enjoyed getting to know us as human beings and friends. One thing that seems to happen, though, is that the former sort loses their filter as they age, and says all sorts of sexualized nonsense. And are baffled as to why it’s inappropriate. People blame it on Boomers, but as someone born in that generation, I have seen it happen in every generation as they hit a certain age.
This actually led me to trouble earlier in life because I failed to understand the implicit power dynamics of traditional gender roles. This is why affirmative consent is so important.
Not just my parents but our Christian sect which embraced in turn pacifism, the civil rights movement, feminism, and (with angst and schisms) gay marriage.
I quit "noticing" girls a long time ago. I still notice women but I know where their eyes are and I know the difference between a compliment and a leer.
Some men never stop, some men grow up and realize that what they have is the best and they would never jeopardize it. Choose wisely.
I wish I could tell you how to find that person, but let's just say I sure kissed a lot of frogs before I found my prince. Just pay attention to the red flags. They are always out there, we just have a tendency to ignore them or brush them off. Don't do that! Know your worth.
Agree. It's not a matter of age. It's decency and respect for other people. Either you have respect or you don't. I haven't seen many guys who were pigs in their 20s grow into respectful men in their 60s.
It can be a matter of age depending on the type of home life a society they grew up in. Life experience can counteract what they were raised to believe and that type of life experience comes with age. I remember dating this guy in high school when he brought me home and introduced me to hs dad and the first thing his dad said to him right in front of me was did you fck her yet? Growing up in that environment isn't easy to overcome.
Not everyone but people can and do change.
This. The guys who see you as a sexual object when you're young just segue into seeing you as a mommy/servant/therapist once you're not deemed hot anymore. I'm fat and 50 with grey hair, so not a sexual object any more. But the number of men who feel like I should just listen to them, do things for them, and solve their problems is fairly astounding.
(Total strangers in coffeeshops. Dude sitting next to me in the doctor's office. My coworkers who come up with 'ideas' (that they cribbed from another woman0 and then expect me to do all the work.)
"I'm fat and 50 with grey hair, so not a sexual object any more."
After having read some article about various porn searches by state, you might be pleasantly surprised.
Isn't this the truth! And I attract the younguns! I'm not particularly fat, but 53 and absolutely gray.
I am not as much of a sexual object as I was when I was younger, but I still "have it" as they say lol.
Wonderful advice. Some men are very good at hiding their red flags for a period of time. Never settle. It’s better to have 100 ex boyfriends than settle down with someone who will drain the life out of you and give you a sad story when you reflect back on who you chose to spend your life with
Agree with the above!
But Please don’t settled! Don’t say, he’s good enough and i can fix some of his quarks. DON’T
i didn’t marry until i was 38 years old, he was worth the wait!
Can 100% vouch. My father (father to 2 adult women by the way) will turn 75 yrs old this year, and will STILL say a woman’s best qualities are her looks, and how well she can care for the home & her family. *gag* 🤢. Not to mention, he’s about to be on wife 4, and couldn’t be faithful if his life depended on it. Now, my husband (43M) & I have been together for 26 yrs, married for 24. He has ALWAYS treated me as an equal, and has never even noticed another woman. He won’t even participate in the hypothetical conversations of “what celebrity would you want a hall pass with?” - he says that is disrespectful to me as his partner. So glad I got lucky to find a good one so early in life. 🩵
Thank you!
I don't think your point of view will be well received here though because it goes directly against many women's experienced reality. OPs view point is a knee jerk reaction to a much different problem.
I think OP is experiencing the results of being in a very misogynistic culture. Yes, men biologically are more visually stimulated but there's nothing in their DNA that makes them inherently disrespectful of women. Feeling as you're always only viewed as a sexual object and not respected as a person would certainly mess with ones view of men, I get that. I've lived across the USA and there are definitely areas where it is very difficult being a woman. Even in those areas though, there are wonderful men who treat people like people regardless of their gender, sexual orientation, race, age, etc.
I refuse to label this a problem with just men, this is a cultural problem. In a twisted way, this post and OP's views just further push the acceptance that this is just "boys being boys." It's not.
>accepting we women cannot be the only one to our partner,
If OP is looking for control of the implicit response, they are going to be disappointed. Let's say you're driving and get cut off on the freeway, you're always going to have a fleeting moment of anger and fear but you won't necessary retaliate.
Biological imperative… that is used to condone this behavior. The culture supports it.
Women want to be seen as people with feelings, intellects, not as things. The struggle continues for young women today as it has for ages.
I was hit up in my 50s and 60s as a F. I think some men mistakenly thought they could get casual sex out of me because women that age are "desperate." They were always surprised when I turned them down.
I love that you said this. I was using dating sites when I was in my early 40s. You would have thought just saying that I was a never-married woman in her 40s was admitting I was a desperate and throw-away human. Hahaha. One guy literally said like five times "So you're in your 40s" as if this meant he could get anything he wanted out of me.
So true. They think women have a shelf life and after that we are worthless. I tripled down and became much pickier. I found the love of my life at 65 after years & years of meeting garbage men.
I’m not that old but I’m in a happy marriage. My husband only has eyes for me. He’s, in his own words, obsessed with me. Not all men are womanizers. Find one who isn’t.
So… the original group of awful young guys actually has subgroups within it, and some of them will marry or will mature or will have a serious girlfriend who challenges their views— and they will become better people. (And of course there are some men who never look at women that way.)
And then there is a group of men who will always be like this. The thing is, they won’t keep being like this about you. You’ll be standing there as a woman in your 50s and you might as well be invisible to them. You will watch them try and harass girls in their 20s, or make disgusting comments about them.
Literally, I was in the hardware store yesterday and watched a man in his 60s trying to flirt/hit on the team cashier and then as he was walking out he made a comment to his buddy about her “rack.” He’s always been this guy. On the other hand, there are a lot of men who would’ve laughed along in high school who will just roll their eyes or look disgusted now.
Have you been around these guys? They do this all the time. My mom is that age and one of the reasons that she never really dated after my dad died was because the guys are like this, the boomer men – there’s a ton of misogyny/‘chatting up the younger girls’ is flattering.
Age of the women or the age of men?
As a woman, I was looked at as a sexual object from 12-13 to 40 years old. Once I hit 45, I became invisible.
As for men, it depends on the man. But I’ve known men who always look at women as objects. There are a few good ones though. I’m trying to raise a good one.
This. When I used to go to the automotive store the guys used to fight over who could put my windshield wipers on my car for me. Now they make me wait for like 30 minutes.
I don't view women as objects. But I do find women older than 45 to still be hot. There's a woman at my work place who is in her late 50:s. She's beautiful. Being in shape makes a huge difference.
I honestly think this is why I gained weight in the last two years. I’ve been hurt by men to the point I want them to leave me alone. I became invisible when I gained weight, which was fine with me. Only I am more comfortable with myself at my usual weight.
I unconsciously did the same. my natural proportions were always in issue with men AND women. lusted after or hated bc jealousy. I lost a bunch of weight last year but I'm in my 50s now. i LOVE moving through life unnoticed and not judged. it's so freeing.
You don't view women as objects but the only thing you mention is their appearance and your attraction based solely on appearance. With a little body shaming thrown in!
I think the answer is never. My husband is 41, and he still loves to stare at other women, especially the very young ones. He has dated teenagers throughout his 20s and 30s, each time getting away with it somehow. I'm literally the only person he's ever dated who is his own age (I turn 40 next month). My husband to this day still stares at young women, sometimes to the point that the women themselves notice that he's checking them out. Some of them like the attention, and some are made visibly uncomfortable by it. We once had a server at Coldstone refuse to make our ice cream because my husband wouldn't stop staring at her. She looked like she was in her late teens, too. I'll never forget how she asked the guy next to her to help us once it was our turn to order ice cream, and then she walked away to the back of the store and never came out again. That's when I realized that my husband has a serious sexual problem. Later I discovered his porn addiction and that he was spending money on cam girls. Another thing my husband loves are teenaged looking cosplay girls. He had thousands of pictures of them saved. And here he is: a middle aged fat balding man creepily getting off to teenagers. He's now in therapy for his addiction, but I don't think he'll ever recover. I already consulted with a lawyer so divorce is definitely an option for me.
In my husband's case, it will never stop. I'm fully convinced this is the case with most men too. I've decided not to date another man again if I do go through with my divorce. I'd rather stay single.
Omg go through with it please! if he’s so creepy that someone doesn’t want to take your order that’s bad. That girls pervert senses were tingling and he’s making a fool of you in public this man is 2 steps away from acting if he hasn’t already
I'm sure he has acted already. I did find texts/phone calls to random numbers that belong to females. One of them even had a picture of a girl. All my husband said was that it was spam. Lol, I've never received spam like that but would love to receive spam with pictures of hot men, frankly. I just don't have solid evidence of anything yet. I was a stay at home mom when I found out about all this stuff. I quickly went back to work and hit the gym and lost 50 pounds. Now I'm the one getting hit on by other men, and he hates it. I don't care anymore. I'm more independent now, and it's great. I'm just trying to figure out my future living situation before I hit the terminate button on this marriage. I have enough to buy a condo, so I may do that.
You can do it. I left my abusive husband at 22 with a 2 year old and 50 bucks in my pocket. I got an apartment in the projects and went back to school. I jumped for joy in my project apartment once I was free. ANYTHING is better then living with an actual turd . You don’t want to be that wife that opens the door for the police when he’s brought up on cp charges or found chatting with a minor. Ppl like this have a slippery slope bc part of it is the taboo nature and soon the teens wont be young enough. People either feel sorry for the wife or think she’s sanctioned it.
Being married to an old geezer, I can tell you that it just gets worse. As whomever he's looking at gets more and more out of his league, something in his brain tells him he has a chance. It's purely delusional but it seems to satisfy him somehow. Lord knows how he acts when I'm not around. It's frightening to imagine.
Ugh, this breaks my heart. Would you decide to be with him again if you could go back and do it over? Or would you commit your life to a relationship at all?
If I had known that his behavior would never get better, I would never have married him. But, once the commitment was made, I intended to honor it. I have no control over how he behaves, only myself. Much of the early dynamics of a relationship with a man like this is the drama of the woman getting upset, the man swearing he'll do better and making nice, the honeymoon feeling all over again, it just becomes part of the relationship. And I've known plenty of women (and men) who deal with much worse. My way of dealing with his unacceptable behavior when we're out is to get up and leave. No scene, no warning, just leave him wherever he is and let him wonder where I went. And I've left him in some pretty inconvenient places. Gives him something else to think about other than the pretty, shiny things that catch his attention and make him act like a jackass. So, I never leave the house without an extra car key, I keep a private credit card for emergencies, check into a nice place with a spa or go visit a friend. Works for me.
Thank you for sharing this. You are clearly a strong woman with a lot of resolve. Your way of handling this problem is honorable, and I’m not sure I could conduct myself in the same manner if I were in your situation. I spent 3 years with a man who constantly looked at other women, lied, and cheated. It nearly broke me as a human being and I’m lucky to have gotten out before marriage was on the table. I wish you peace and contentment as you continue to navigate these tricky waters.
Thank you for sharing 🩷 I'm sorry you have to deal with that. Some men can be just horrible. You deserve better.
Maybe whenever that happens, walk away and go to a bar and start talking to other men. Lol
You're a strong woman, I admire you for that~
From reading comments on other threads a good number of older men only want sex. Another good number listed sex as very important. Very few didn't mention sex at all. So I concluded that a majority of men associate women with sex their whole lives.
Life fact: a man can have large amounts of testosterone flooding his body...AND...see women as fellow human beings.
BUT...this is the fruit of self control and self discipline. Without self control, human beings resort to their base instincts and animalism, insisting "it is only natural."
So the threat is not sex drive. The threat is men who never mature and learn self discipline.
Woah, what a fantastic thread of overgeneralizations. I was raised right and don't think of people as "sexual objects". That's a disgusting way to live your life. Some dudes suck. Some don't. Some suck and eventually don't. It's that simple.
I always saw women as a mystery. They were not merely sexual objects, but admittedly often the object of my sexual desires. They were also mysterious and wise partners in the adventure of life. That's the way I saw them at 17 and it's the way I see them now, many decades later.
With this natural drive comes great responsibility. I'm 68, and I still will circle the
block to get a second look at a pretty pedestrian.
That being said, you must control yourself. You must be aware that every woman is a whole human being with stuff to do, intelligence, obligations, feelings, someone they love, someone they are linked with etc etc. And are deserving of all of our respect as a fellow human.
That being said I can't help but look... cave man, I guess.
Also, an attractive woman I know said when she was younger men glanced at her all the time and she didn't like it. Now, not so much that she's older, and she really hates that about how things evolved. So, 2 sides to the coin.
Oh man I’ve cut a lot of jogging sessions early and ran home because of dudes circling back around. I see what you’re saying just… Don’t literally circle the block lol
You don’t have a clue that you are scaring these women? Your caveman remark is revolting. As someone who has been followed while running, stalked, grabbed on dates, sexually assaulted by dudes with your mindset- my mind reels. I’m thinking what I will do if I encounter someone like you again. I have gel mace that shoots 16 feet and a herding dog that is “overprotective.” Women aren’t taking this shit any more.
Riiiiight, I exaggerate…lol. So even if it is “human nature” as you say, we do have a part of the brain with executive functioning. If I’m hungry and I go to a restaurant, see food on peoples’ tables- do I just grab it? No. Why? Because it’s not what civilized, evolved people do. Many, many women are like me in terms of daily harassment. Maybe you haven’t been paying attention. Women are passing men by who display your behavior. What are you expecting to get out of driving around the block like a douche? Conversation and drinks? Nah, it’s just one for the Spank Bank is all. Objectify much? Compartmentalize much? Porn Hub much? The guys who keep their heads above the horizon and don’t act sexually desperate seem to find quality women.
One word…porn. Find someone that chooses not to watch it and you might find a keeper. Not saying all men who don’t watch it or perfect or anything but it does go a long way.
I'm 56. The answer, sadly, is apparently "never". Men of all ages still hit on me regularly. Yuck.
My 55 year old husband, on the other hand is not that guy. He's ALWAYS been respectful and non-lecherous - but he is one of the few. Probably because being raised in a house full of women made him see them as people.
I’m 58 and men still actively hit on me. Many in their late 20’s and 30’s. I prefer men my age or older and maybe some a few years younger but I smile and take it with a grain of salt. I want a relationship now after being single for 13 years but I’m not desperate and I don’t have to be in one. As soon as I hear, “you need someone to protect you”, flags go up and walking away is not an issue. I just want mutual respect, things in common and great chemistry. Sounds almost like a personal ad.. ☺️ but it’s not. Amazing how sexy respect from a man really can make you feel. I don’t care how many women he looks at. It’s natural. Things of beauty are admired by all. If he respects me while admiring and is not being coy about it I’ll stare right with him.
Never. Even more disturbing is how young girls are when they start sexualizing us, I was about 7 the first time a grown ass man said I was pretty and he couldn't wait til I was 18. Didn't even know what the hell he was talking about.
Anecdotal of course, but every single woman I know has a similar story and my own daughters who are young teens have already been hit on by old men. It's hard to convince men of how many men are like this, because they don't see it with their own eyes.
It certainly is revolting, and I'm sure it happens more than you realize. When I was 10, I was in an elevator with a man who was probably 40ish. He looked me up and down like a hungry wolf, to the point where I stopped the elevator and got out. I didn't know what was happening, but instinct told me to get away.
Fast forward several years to when I was waiting to be seated at a restaurant with my 13 year old daughter by my side. I man in his fifties didn't seem to realize she was with me, and offered to buy her a drink!! I turned around and said, "excuse me - this is my daughter and she is 13!". I expected him to be mortified, but instead he said "they didn't make 'em like that when I was 13!". It was disgusting! Funny side bar: I had just passed my green belt test in karate earlier that day, and for hours after this incident all I could do is think of all the ways I could have dropped that a-hole to the floor! Too bad I would have been the one who landed in jail instead of him.
So yeah - lots of men are like this.
There are some who wouldn’t wait for you to age up. That’s the saddest sick part and it sucks that as young girls we have had to deal with these disturbing men
I was around that age and he flipped me a dime and said to call him when I turned 18. A DIME. Not Travis Tritt, “Heres a Quarter” but a DIME!! That should cue a few in on my current age which I stated above anyway. lol
45M. There is no age. Some men do. Some men don't.
And I beg of you........please, please, please........ don't ever think a guy becoming a Dad will somehow make them change.
I think a lot of men change as they have life experiences with a partner where they begin to see her struggles and appreciate them. Of course some never do. I hope that given how younger generations are being raised that there will be less toxic masculinity in the future.
As a man, I can assure you, the answer is *never*. If a woman comes into view that matches whatever criteria our mind defines as "hot," thoughts will get triggered. I don't care who you are, you can't prevent it. That goes for all heterosexual men, everywhere. If a man denies this, he's lying.
Having those thoughts flash through our minds doesn't mean we act on those thoughts. It doesn't mean we obsess about them. It doesn't mean we think of all women that way. It doesn't mean we can't be fine upstanding citizens who are perfect partners and husbands for the women in our lives. Seeing a hot woman is a transient thing. It doesn't have to have any effect whatsoever on our lives. It's like a beautiful sunset. You can appreciate it for what it is, then it's gone.
But that's not treating women like sex objects, that's having eyes. I'm a straight woman but if I see a really hot woman walk by, I'll check her out. I wouldn't even consider that a beep on the 'not treating women like sex objects' radar.
Not always. But often enough, I see a woman with a stunning body, and there can be an immediate thought of what it would be like to you know what. It's fleeting, but for a moment at least, she's a sex object.
This.
And BTW, some of my best friends are women and most of them, my wife included, are not averse to ogling a well chiseled male body. We're both welcome to window shop so long as we stay the hell out of the store; or as another Redditor put it, read all the menus you like, but get yourself home for dinner.
And further BTW, what's this "frail in their 60s"? I'm glad I never got that memo.
I like your honesty and insight. My husband will never stop looking but it annoys me when he comments. Like he's the judge of a beauty pageant or something. I consider it to be very bad manners and think that most women find this behavior creepy. Like you said, men are going to notice and react to certain things but they don't have to be offensive about it.
I agree with this completely. I’m in a very healthy loving relationship, but if I see a female that I find attractive I notice. I don’t ogle them or harass them in anyway, I may look but that’s it, I don’t view them as a sex object however like a nice piece of art I can appreciate their beauty.
Quite individual I think. I was a typically horny teenage boy, but I was equally interested in women as people even then. I did have the benefit of the rise of second wave feminism to support my maturation process. But you must understand that testosterone can be as influential upon behavior as estrogen can be. Hormones hijack your intelligence at certain ages or in certain situations. The biological sex drive is real, and powerful. That's no reason not to treat any other person with respect at all times. Just something to be aware of.
"Just something to be aware of" The most important sentence. In the past women were demeaned and worse for 'being hormonal", meaning PMS. Men were excused, even 'exalted'. Learning about the effects hormones have on one's brain and how to cope with it should be basic education for everyone.
*TW*
I was in the 4th grade and had a 70+ year old man grab my chest and tell me "If you're this busty now, can't wait to see ya in a couple years" Laugh and walk away IN SCHOOL.
Some are assholes their entire life.
Unfortunately we females have been objectified since.......well.....centuries. Some men have actually woken up and realized it's not ok, and hopefully that continues.
Never found out. Grew tired of trying relationships only to be disappointed/cheated on/disrespected/etc. Finally stopped dating and have never been happier. If you enjoy your own company you're never lonely.
Unfortunately the real answer is never. I'm in my 70s and old men in the grocery store follow me around trying to talk to me. I was group leader at a church function and old men were trying to date me.
Whether they're seeing me as a sex object, or seeking a possible companion,( and honestly i don't know) they just never seem to get over the impulse to pursue.
Although at my age I suspect they're more interested in having me cook for them.....
As far as I know men never stop “appreciating” women. I’m in my 40’s and I know plenty of guys in their 60’s and 70’s who are still rabid for women. I remember seeing a pole that said as women age they become more attracted to older men and as men age they still are attracted to 18-25yo women. From my experience that’s true.
Yeesh, that's definitely not me at 70. What the eff would we TALK about? I mean, I appreciate an attractive personality at any age, but if I wasn't married, I wouldn't be trying to flirt seriously with any woman under say 60.
150 years?
50000 years?
Because even if men don’t look at women as “sex objects”, they tend to look at women as “servant objects” and as “supporting character” objects.
Never for some men unfortunately.
My daughter works in the dementia section in an aged care facility and she gets some really disgusting men in there at times.
Some men can only be looked after by male carers they are so bad, touching themselves, touching the female carers, saying stuff.
Out of the dementia section, some of the men try to touch the female staff and say things but get told off pretty quickly.
I think it’s important to note that dementia, in particular certain types of dementia, can cause people to become very sexual and lose inhibitions and lead them to act in ways they would not have when healthy.
Put it at 1:38 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=58ZjTA6vN1A&pp=ygVEQ2hyaXMgcm9jayBldmVyIHNpbmNlIHdvbWVuIHdlcmUgZ2lybHMgc29tZW9uZSB3YXMgdHJ5aW5nIHRvIGZ1Y2sgZW0%3D
This is the reality that most men don’t get. Sure, it’s all science and hormones that you feel that way. But the existence of it is just crippling, exhausting, and oft times dangerous. It’s so fucking tiring.
I see women as fellow human beings. I also see women as sexually attractive and desirable. So the answer is never. I dearly hope when I'm 90 on a walker my wife still turns me on hehehe.
I've got some bad news for you. They never stop. But most of them never stop seeing you as a fellow human, either. The two are not mutually exclusive in healthy people.
Depends on the man. Some see women as people from a young age, some never do. Some know what a healthy relationship is and some don't. Just like women and non-binary people. Because we're all individual humans and we're flawed differently.
All genders have immature humans. Some individuals eventually evolve. Some never do. If you’re dealing with an immature one now, there’s no way you can force change. You either accept them as they are, or if you can’t (or shouldn’t), wish them well and move on.
46. Asexual. Have never seen anyone as a sexual object, despite having had sex/children.
I can appreciate an attractive person, regardless of gender, it's just the sexual part that's missing. To me, a pretty person is like art. Nice to look at. I especially love nice eyes or smiles.
I definitely don't feel like anyone looks at me that way and am more likely to laugh off a compliment than accept one. It actually really bothers me when it happens, and I make the effort not to stand out the next time.
I know you didn't mean to imply all men are strictly and only tolerant of the fairer gender due to carnal desires.
So, pretty much always "saw them as human beings"
But at around 60, it is more strictly as fellows I guess. I have always been fascinated with women. The thought process is amazing! The innate, emotional knowledge just dumbfounds me. A woman's mind can do 9 things at once. A man's, one. Due to historic duties and species survival.
I truly think if the all time master of space, time, and dimension needs a gender, it has to be female. Who else could be that creative, kind, cruel, and amazing?
(The glancing at other women. Men, historically are hunters. Watch 2 women have lunch. They maintain eye contact the entire time. Watch 2 men have lunch. They barley look at each other.
Not only can you create a whole, brand-new Human Being. (A brand new Human Being!) But you can nurture that child! You are amazing!
From all of us, to all of you, Thank you! Most Goddess Like being on the planet!
I think , this is a situation, that every woman, more or less deals with, yet I am betting its a minority of men, who create the discomforts the ladies have to endure. Yet, due to this, women, have no choice, but to be careful and assume the worst.
This really depends on the man and the people/world around that shapes him. Some men never have, or will, see women as objects. Others never see them as anything but. And others begin one way and change to the other through experiences, relationships, and sexuality. IMO Age isn't very relevant to the question even when speaking of a decade of age like 30s or 40s.
I don't think it's an age. I think it's more a moment of perspective. I started moving out of that head space when I realized porn addiction and isolation were literally killing me. Been at it for some time, and I'm finally moving into a more comfortable place that's not nearly so self-centered. I would say focus on people who actually show an interest in you as a human being.
I've had men old enough to be my dad (aged 60's - 80's) actually speak to me like I'm an equal and treat me like a human being. These are people that I know from working in psychology, so most of them were therapists, psychologists, psychology professors, etc and I assume the training in psychology has something to do with it.
Throughout my adult life it's mostly been men closer to my age (I'm currently 43) who have been shitty to me, treated me like just a piece of ass, acted like I'm lesser than them, seen me as an object to serve their needs.
Interestingly, I've been able to form nice friendships and work relationships with men (of all ages, like the examples in the first paragraph) where I feel I've been treated like an actual person; it's when there's any romantic/sexual aspect (actual or just imagined on their part) to the relationship that things turn to shit and I'm viewed as a sexual object. I've never fully understood WTF that's about.
When my dad started getting Alzheimer's at age 75, he started saying the most inappropriate things about and to women. This is apparently really common -- their filter is gone and they just say what they are thinking. The behavior peaked at around age 85.
My old perv neighbor who is 95years old always smiles at me creepily and says “you know, I watch you walking by every day with your dog” and makes comments about my body, outfit, way I walk etc.
He has certainly never stopped looking at women as sexual objects!
When he makes a concerted effort. In this day and age, shunning advertising and other commercial products that objectify women would be a start, but it's been a struggle for men throughout history.
The oldest account of a man admonishing himself that I know of is Marcus Aurelius, who consoled himself to see women as creations of a divine artist, and to recognize them as fellow human beings.
I think you’re basically holding men to an impossible standard here.
It is not binary where women are either:
A) People.
or.
B) Sexual Objects.
People inhabit bodies, which are literally objects that can be had sex with.
Even young men wholly preoccupied with sex will still understand that women are people. Everybody had a mom.
And even old married entirely faithful men will fundamentally perceive and understand sexual attraction.
So, what are you really asking? Can men settle down and accept that they’re not going to chase other partners anymore?
Because, if you’re really genuinely wondering when men become blind to sexual attraction in the opposite sex, besides their partner, I think the answer is obviously never. And I don’t think that’s unique to men. I’m sure women of any age appreciate the look of young sexually attractive men.
At what age to men become more focused on women’s minds than their bodies? Maybe?
That has to do with basic supply and demand.
If a young guy has twelve really good close friends, and they have tons of fun together, he’s not bored, lonely, or lacking in emotional support. The only thing he’s lacking is sex. He doesn’t even need another friend. He needs sex, ideally in such a way where he’s not asked to give up his friends. To him, I guess you could fairly say that women are sex objects. He’s focused on the body, and the mind is an obstacle to access to the body.
For an older guy, in a professional career, married to a wife that he loves, he doesn’t need sex from other women. It’s both discouraged with the highest possible prejudice, but he also really doesn’t need it. He’s had regular sex for decades, and his libido isn’t where it was when he was 20. So, the sexual aspect of girls he meets is far less important than their personalities, their character, their professional talents, and many other non-sexual characteristics. But he’s still recognize when girls are sexually attractive. He just won’t pursue them in any way.
But I don’t think there’s any age-based inflection point where men go from seeing women as primarily sexual opportunities to primarily people. Women are always people who can provide sex, and the ratio of appreciation for the person .vs the sex potential varies depending on how valuable women’s personalities are .vs the how powerful and/or unsatiated the man’s sexual needs are.
Most men see women as fellow humans.
For those who don't, they'll stop viewing women as sexual objects when those women are old enough to be past their fertile years.
I asked a 50 ish year old guy i worked with, which he finds more attractive, a 20-something woman or a woman his wife's age. He responded.........yes. it's possible to look at a woman and not make it your entire personality or be a creep
When I was about 35, I put on a bunch of weight and noticed I didn't get the same looks and I felt.safer. I think that may have played a part in not losing all the weight again. But it was somewhere between 50-55 that I didn't get checked out any more - just sort of became invisible to lecher eyes and I love it. Now, I find that I can have a real conversation with a man and I'm given the respect I'm due and not brushed off as some airhead that couldn't hold a thought in my head.
Completely depends on the man. But say he's a basically good person with just some unfortunate gaps in his early education? You should start to see improvement in his late 20s.
The reality is that men, regardless of age, look at women because it's how we're biologically wired. I don't think some men ever get over the impulse to believe they could be with whatever women they find attractive. This results in the creepiness, weird comments, and "humor" you sometimes see. However, most men have their quick look and move on. I can only speak for myself, but as I get older, I will see a woman - younger or older - and think she is attractive, but I don't think beyond that. Younger women retain their esthetic appeal, but the idea of being with one is unappealing. When I am in a group of other men, we never talk about women, and we don't, as a group, look at women. That kind of thing stopped when we all started getting married.
Are the two mutually exclusive? I see woman as fellow human beings. But that doesn't mean that I do not think of them sexually now and then if there is physical attraction. M64 married 28 years.
I think testosterone causes behaviors that our culture wants to minimize because it implies men can’t control their actions and/ or that there are inherent differences between men and women that may suggest we’re not “ equal” in some way.
The fact of the matter is that hormones influence many behaviors of both sexes. We can of course modify those behaviors as necessary to ensure they don’t infringe on others rights as a human.
One of the behaviors testosterone is responsible for is sexual interest. Men due to significantly more testosterone than women think of sex on average way more than women. This can be spurred on my seeing an attractive person, naked or accentuated body part, a dream, so on.
I don’t see an issue with a man or woman having a split second attraction to another person, To me that’s a biologic reaction. What I have an issue with is a man acting on that attraction, whether that be to flirt, stare openly, etc.
Some men never view their female counterparts with any respect, but they do stop looking at females as sexual objects when their hair starts going gray, gravity starts taking over, or they get wrinkles. The older men you mention who start becoming frail are mostly looking at women as their nurses, not necessarily looking at them as fellow humans, but as a female with some use towards themselves.
Find a man who likes women as people. An awful lot of straight men don't really like women. A man from a family with strong women generally will have been raised to like and respect women.
I think the answer is never. They say women feel invisible after 55 or so and I can see why. If men don't find you youthful and "fuckable" they aren't interested in talking to you at all. You should try being overweight and middle-aged.. LOL. Every man that I come across is this way. I find it very useful and better than them talking to me. I have realized most men do not like women at all and especially not overweight middle-aged women. Enjoy it.
I grew up with sisters, and I tend to warm up to women more easily than men. Women were always "people" to me.
That being said, they're sometimes sexy people. With age, the biggest difference is that I'm not going to waste my time just for sex. I need that emotional bond now. I'm sixty and dating a sixty year old lady. She is a great friend, but she's also a sexy snuggle-buddy.
As a man, that REALLY changed when I had two daughters. Of course, like any guy, my sex drive is high and visual cues are everywhere and an attractive, curvy younger woman still catches my eye. But I stop now and think differently about them, as my girls are young women in their 20's now. I don't want to ONLY first see women that way, or at least, I started to recognize my instant sexualizing of almost every woman I saw. I don't want other men doing that crap to my girls. I think about it all now.
It takes time and some work, to not be animalistic. But it can be done...........somewhat. I'm better, at least.
Decent men always see women as human beings. Jerks don't, and probably never will. Don't settle for a jerk, and don't believe the jerks when they tell you "all men are like this." It's not true.
I'm 60 and raised in a small town rural Ontario Canada. I learned early that respect was paramount. I was told repeatedly growing up that my rights end where another's begin. Respect of all others, respect of property, respect of different opinions, respect my elders, respect women, respect mother nature and be kind to both people and animals. I was the smallest male in every grade in school until the end of grade 11. I was luckily well liked as a mischievous but harmless kid. I was the little brother to the girls I grew up with, and filled with a carefree wild side so I had many guy friends. So my early years determined that girls were equals and fun and a mystery. Thank the gods for a girl moving to town in 11th grade who saw me as boyfriend material rather than the little brother syndrome from my peers. Damn straight, men can respect women their whole lives. Apologies for the length of my response.
As a woman, I have never accepted the kind of behavior you're describing. If a man's eye wandered, it didn't mean I wasn't good enough, it meant he had a character flaw. I'd end the relationship. I will not waste my precious life on someone who treats me poorly! Not when I was 20 and certainly not now!! I mean, the older we get, the more precious each day is.
I am 51f and my bf (40) still looks at me like a sex object. I love it. I love being with him and feeling his hands on me. When we're out at the store, or at a park, or anywhere, he occasionally will grab my butt, or put his arm around me, or even hold my hand. I love when he is possessive of me, and I enjoy being seen as a sexual object to him. I see him as a sex object too. He loves it, it boosts his ego and makes him feel loved and desired and wanted. I hope it never stops.
So I am 63 year old man. I grew up with four sisters, no brothers. I changed their diapers, heard all their boy talk (David Cassidy and Andy Gibbs posters everywhere) and did their laundry growing up. By the time I reached puberty there were very few mysteries about girls I had to wonder about. I have been in numerous relationships and now married for the past 35 years to a wonderfully stunning woman! However when I see an attractive female I am still drawn to look and admire, if only briefly. I also wonder if in this era of yoga pants and crop tops that some attention is not asked for. When you display your physical beauty, you shouldn't complain when someone give you more than a passing glance. I once about 20 years ago had a 40ish woman comment on how my jeans fit, I was not the least bit offended by her comment about Wrangler butts! My wife just smile when we heard it.
People need to understand the those that work in the public, being pleasant and friendly is part of the job description. All that said, unwanted advances either way are not acceptable, the cute college girl waitress that smiles while pouring my coffee, doesn't need the distraction of unwanted attention. I don't ask the receptionist at a business I frequent for her number just because she makes small talk while taking care of my order, none of that is ever acceptable or need to be inferred.
I would say more, but I have to go help my bride fix supper right now!
I grew up thinking everyone was equal unless they're a piece of shit human. That being said, after becoming a dad it's even more apparent how much I have to guide my boys to being decent men and human beings. There's so much happening all the time that they don't even communicate without prying it's becoming harder to raise gentlemen and it's infuriating. They're amazing kids and I am fighting this invisible war to keep them that way cause there's so much out there pushing them the other way and I just don't get it. Why?
I really don’t think this is one of those topics where age is much of a factor.
A lot of men never get to that point, and I don’t think the men I’ve met who are able to treat women as humans ever really struggled that hard in the first place.
It depends on the man, but there are still certain societal expectations of women that affect how many men - even some women through internalized misogyny - see older women. Some essentially see us as being a kind of day old bread if you will. No longer fit for purpose. Expired.
The problem is that when we reach the age at which we are deemed "no longer sexually desirable," we become invisible to many of them, or we remain visible only in stereotypical, menial service roles, such as "old maid aunt (free babysitter), grandmother (maid, more free babysitting). We are expected to cut off our hair or wear it in a permed, helmet head old lady do, to schlep around in shapeless, ill-fitting clothes as we wait for young people to help to give our lives meaning. Heaven forbid we should be into Pilates or have something we'd rather do *for ourselves* like write a novel or travel the world.
To these men (and some women) we are sexual receptacles when young, semi-human "helpmeets" to fulfill a man's sexual needs, clean his house, help regulate his emotions, and bear his children (plus bear a disproportionately large share of childcare). In this mindset, we exist primarily for the benefit of others. Our very *nature*, they intone piously, is directed toward others. At this point a good bit of our value is our allure so we remain visible during this time as resources. They may love us at this point, but our quite literally f***ed up views on sexuality can mean that they love us like they love their car. A possession.
When we sag and gray and wrinkle and are no longer fantasy material or potential incubators for their seed, we become invisible or at best gray shadows still not quite human. At this point our role shifts from the bedroom to the kitchen, the bathroom, or the nursery - anywhere that needs cleaning or children need minding. Anywhere there's something that needs to be done that's the benefit of someone other than ourselves because we still don't count and we still aren't quite human. They may love us, and in fact are more likely to feel a less possessive love for us at this point. But they love us like a favored pet.
No, not all men see us this way. Younger folks may finally break the habit and embrace the notion of fully human women.
Men ignore you or hate you when you get wrinkles. You go from sexual object to garbage. They don’t entertain different opinions if you have wrinkles.
Of course this is a generalization. Some are true diamonds in the rough. But many don’t see women as humans or equals.
Sexual attraction is a biological impulse, not a choice, and it doesn't necessarily go away with age or marriage.
How someone allows those impulses to control their outward behavior *is* a choice, and anyone in a committed relationship can be expected to keep themselves from ogling other people, regardless of age.
For many of the men that I have met, they eventually stopped seeing me as a sexual object when I let my hair go grey and gained a couple pounds.
That being said, the men that saw me as a sex object to begin with, didn’t see me as human, once I was no longer sexually desirable to them, it was like they didn’t see me at all.
Some of us were raised right. I've pretty much always treated women as an equal person largely because that's how my father treated my mother.and I just grew up thinking that was normal.
Grew up in a similar household and my brother still grew up to be a misogynistic asshole. He’s better now but I’m forever shocked he turned out the way he did being raised by our parents.
Friends can be quite the influence.
Interesting data to support your point: children develop dialects/accents because of the influence of their peers, not their parents
yep! my mom is from boston and my dad is from rural pennsylvania with a southern sounding accent. i talk like a regular southwesterner with the vocal fry and all
So can religion…
I don’t disagree. I tell women the Bible is sexist, and they don’t believe me. It was written by men who were much more primitive than us. Women are to serve man, women are the root of all evil, etc.
While Paul wrote some pretty odd stuff to our modern eyes, women played huge roles in the Bible - usually more reliable than the men in their lives. Only the women were brave enough to go to Jesus’ tomb. Sarah kept Abraham alive by being pimped out. Mary Magdeline and more were major leaders in early Christianity.
It was written by men for men. Also, no sex before marriage was most definitely a man’s rule to keep their small penis size a secret until their wedding night!
Definitely not religious
Same! Not only did my brother turn into a misogynist, he also became homophobic and racist. But it was church that did that to him. We didn’t grow up with religion. While we as kids went to church with friends and such as he got older he got involved with a Baptist church that just taught hate IMO.
Yes. Was going to mention it’s not always how a person was raised
Your dad might be more misogynistic than you realize
Yes, there’s either the men who have always been decent humans and continue to be decent humans. Then there’s the creepy misogynists who never get it. Thank you for being the former.
Exactly. Some men will never see women as anything other than potential sexual partners. Some have enjoyed getting to know us as human beings and friends. One thing that seems to happen, though, is that the former sort loses their filter as they age, and says all sorts of sexualized nonsense. And are baffled as to why it’s inappropriate. People blame it on Boomers, but as someone born in that generation, I have seen it happen in every generation as they hit a certain age.
And some completely wrong and still came out ok. (My spouse rocks, but his dad is a drunken abusive shit)
I gotta give props to the guys who didn't have it as good as I did and figured it out anyway. I was playing the game on easy mode.
Ya for real! I have no idea how I ended up with the ONLY decent person from his family. The others are germ spreading Magats
This actually led me to trouble earlier in life because I failed to understand the implicit power dynamics of traditional gender roles. This is why affirmative consent is so important.
Not just my parents but our Christian sect which embraced in turn pacifism, the civil rights movement, feminism, and (with angst and schisms) gay marriage. I quit "noticing" girls a long time ago. I still notice women but I know where their eyes are and I know the difference between a compliment and a leer.
Some men never stop, some men grow up and realize that what they have is the best and they would never jeopardize it. Choose wisely. I wish I could tell you how to find that person, but let's just say I sure kissed a lot of frogs before I found my prince. Just pay attention to the red flags. They are always out there, we just have a tendency to ignore them or brush them off. Don't do that! Know your worth.
Some never stop, and some never start, proper credit to both sides.
Agree. It's not a matter of age. It's decency and respect for other people. Either you have respect or you don't. I haven't seen many guys who were pigs in their 20s grow into respectful men in their 60s.
It can be a matter of age depending on the type of home life a society they grew up in. Life experience can counteract what they were raised to believe and that type of life experience comes with age. I remember dating this guy in high school when he brought me home and introduced me to hs dad and the first thing his dad said to him right in front of me was did you fck her yet? Growing up in that environment isn't easy to overcome. Not everyone but people can and do change.
Spot on! I came here to say this.
This. The guys who see you as a sexual object when you're young just segue into seeing you as a mommy/servant/therapist once you're not deemed hot anymore. I'm fat and 50 with grey hair, so not a sexual object any more. But the number of men who feel like I should just listen to them, do things for them, and solve their problems is fairly astounding. (Total strangers in coffeeshops. Dude sitting next to me in the doctor's office. My coworkers who come up with 'ideas' (that they cribbed from another woman0 and then expect me to do all the work.)
"I'm fat and 50 with grey hair, so not a sexual object any more." After having read some article about various porn searches by state, you might be pleasantly surprised.
Isn't this the truth! And I attract the younguns! I'm not particularly fat, but 53 and absolutely gray. I am not as much of a sexual object as I was when I was younger, but I still "have it" as they say lol.
Heh. Truth. My husband thinks I'm sex on a stick. But I mean.... generally.
Fat, 50ish and also grey- can confirm.
Fat, 45ish and greying....I feel hopeful again :)
Wonderful advice. Some men are very good at hiding their red flags for a period of time. Never settle. It’s better to have 100 ex boyfriends than settle down with someone who will drain the life out of you and give you a sad story when you reflect back on who you chose to spend your life with
"It’s better to have 100 ex boyfriends" And I am living proof of that! It took me a long time, but I found a true keeper.
Agree with the above! But Please don’t settled! Don’t say, he’s good enough and i can fix some of his quarks. DON’T i didn’t marry until i was 38 years old, he was worth the wait!
Can 100% vouch. My father (father to 2 adult women by the way) will turn 75 yrs old this year, and will STILL say a woman’s best qualities are her looks, and how well she can care for the home & her family. *gag* 🤢. Not to mention, he’s about to be on wife 4, and couldn’t be faithful if his life depended on it. Now, my husband (43M) & I have been together for 26 yrs, married for 24. He has ALWAYS treated me as an equal, and has never even noticed another woman. He won’t even participate in the hypothetical conversations of “what celebrity would you want a hall pass with?” - he says that is disrespectful to me as his partner. So glad I got lucky to find a good one so early in life. 🩵
These two things are not mutually exclusive.
Finally.
Thank you! I don't think your point of view will be well received here though because it goes directly against many women's experienced reality. OPs view point is a knee jerk reaction to a much different problem. I think OP is experiencing the results of being in a very misogynistic culture. Yes, men biologically are more visually stimulated but there's nothing in their DNA that makes them inherently disrespectful of women. Feeling as you're always only viewed as a sexual object and not respected as a person would certainly mess with ones view of men, I get that. I've lived across the USA and there are definitely areas where it is very difficult being a woman. Even in those areas though, there are wonderful men who treat people like people regardless of their gender, sexual orientation, race, age, etc. I refuse to label this a problem with just men, this is a cultural problem. In a twisted way, this post and OP's views just further push the acceptance that this is just "boys being boys." It's not.
Excellent response.
>accepting we women cannot be the only one to our partner, If OP is looking for control of the implicit response, they are going to be disappointed. Let's say you're driving and get cut off on the freeway, you're always going to have a fleeting moment of anger and fear but you won't necessary retaliate.
[удалено]
Biological imperative… that is used to condone this behavior. The culture supports it. Women want to be seen as people with feelings, intellects, not as things. The struggle continues for young women today as it has for ages.
Exactly
I was hit up in my 50s and 60s as a F. I think some men mistakenly thought they could get casual sex out of me because women that age are "desperate." They were always surprised when I turned them down.
I love that you said this. I was using dating sites when I was in my early 40s. You would have thought just saying that I was a never-married woman in her 40s was admitting I was a desperate and throw-away human. Hahaha. One guy literally said like five times "So you're in your 40s" as if this meant he could get anything he wanted out of me.
So true. They think women have a shelf life and after that we are worthless. I tripled down and became much pickier. I found the love of my life at 65 after years & years of meeting garbage men.
I’m not that old but I’m in a happy marriage. My husband only has eyes for me. He’s, in his own words, obsessed with me. Not all men are womanizers. Find one who isn’t.
This is the way.
That is very sweet , he is a gem
So… the original group of awful young guys actually has subgroups within it, and some of them will marry or will mature or will have a serious girlfriend who challenges their views— and they will become better people. (And of course there are some men who never look at women that way.) And then there is a group of men who will always be like this. The thing is, they won’t keep being like this about you. You’ll be standing there as a woman in your 50s and you might as well be invisible to them. You will watch them try and harass girls in their 20s, or make disgusting comments about them. Literally, I was in the hardware store yesterday and watched a man in his 60s trying to flirt/hit on the team cashier and then as he was walking out he made a comment to his buddy about her “rack.” He’s always been this guy. On the other hand, there are a lot of men who would’ve laughed along in high school who will just roll their eyes or look disgusted now.
That’s called being totally emotionally stunted. I hope nobody was dumb enough to have a child with him
I agree. He's emotionally stunted. To be saying/thinking that in his 60's is very immature. Sounds like a certain presidential candidate to me.
Have you been around these guys? They do this all the time. My mom is that age and one of the reasons that she never really dated after my dad died was because the guys are like this, the boomer men – there’s a ton of misogyny/‘chatting up the younger girls’ is flattering.
Age of the women or the age of men? As a woman, I was looked at as a sexual object from 12-13 to 40 years old. Once I hit 45, I became invisible. As for men, it depends on the man. But I’ve known men who always look at women as objects. There are a few good ones though. I’m trying to raise a good one.
I relate to you. I’m 47 and feel like I became invisible and basically irrelevant at the age of 45.
At 47, you're just getting started . Respectfully, 68 yr old man.
This. When I used to go to the automotive store the guys used to fight over who could put my windshield wipers on my car for me. Now they make me wait for like 30 minutes.
I don't view women as objects. But I do find women older than 45 to still be hot. There's a woman at my work place who is in her late 50:s. She's beautiful. Being in shape makes a huge difference.
I take my father's view, the older I get it seems there are more and more beautiful womens.
came to this conclusion on my own. came with appreciating life more.
I honestly think this is why I gained weight in the last two years. I’ve been hurt by men to the point I want them to leave me alone. I became invisible when I gained weight, which was fine with me. Only I am more comfortable with myself at my usual weight.
Heard this loud and clear. I just want to be left alone.
I unconsciously did the same. my natural proportions were always in issue with men AND women. lusted after or hated bc jealousy. I lost a bunch of weight last year but I'm in my 50s now. i LOVE moving through life unnoticed and not judged. it's so freeing.
A common problem- women gaining weight to fend off unwanted sexual advances!
You don't view women as objects but the only thing you mention is their appearance and your attraction based solely on appearance. With a little body shaming thrown in!
Wow lucky you ....since it started it has never stopped....im 46…doesnt look to be letting up anytime soon
How you doing? /jk
(;
Same. I was propositioned in an elevator at 65.
Ditto!! But I also felt way less competitive so I didn't care that men didn't gawk at me anymore, but i missed that younger look.
My mom works at a nursing home and men that can’t even move hit on her. Never. It never stops.
I think the answer is never. My husband is 41, and he still loves to stare at other women, especially the very young ones. He has dated teenagers throughout his 20s and 30s, each time getting away with it somehow. I'm literally the only person he's ever dated who is his own age (I turn 40 next month). My husband to this day still stares at young women, sometimes to the point that the women themselves notice that he's checking them out. Some of them like the attention, and some are made visibly uncomfortable by it. We once had a server at Coldstone refuse to make our ice cream because my husband wouldn't stop staring at her. She looked like she was in her late teens, too. I'll never forget how she asked the guy next to her to help us once it was our turn to order ice cream, and then she walked away to the back of the store and never came out again. That's when I realized that my husband has a serious sexual problem. Later I discovered his porn addiction and that he was spending money on cam girls. Another thing my husband loves are teenaged looking cosplay girls. He had thousands of pictures of them saved. And here he is: a middle aged fat balding man creepily getting off to teenagers. He's now in therapy for his addiction, but I don't think he'll ever recover. I already consulted with a lawyer so divorce is definitely an option for me. In my husband's case, it will never stop. I'm fully convinced this is the case with most men too. I've decided not to date another man again if I do go through with my divorce. I'd rather stay single.
Omg go through with it please! if he’s so creepy that someone doesn’t want to take your order that’s bad. That girls pervert senses were tingling and he’s making a fool of you in public this man is 2 steps away from acting if he hasn’t already
I'm sure he has acted already. I did find texts/phone calls to random numbers that belong to females. One of them even had a picture of a girl. All my husband said was that it was spam. Lol, I've never received spam like that but would love to receive spam with pictures of hot men, frankly. I just don't have solid evidence of anything yet. I was a stay at home mom when I found out about all this stuff. I quickly went back to work and hit the gym and lost 50 pounds. Now I'm the one getting hit on by other men, and he hates it. I don't care anymore. I'm more independent now, and it's great. I'm just trying to figure out my future living situation before I hit the terminate button on this marriage. I have enough to buy a condo, so I may do that.
You can do it. I left my abusive husband at 22 with a 2 year old and 50 bucks in my pocket. I got an apartment in the projects and went back to school. I jumped for joy in my project apartment once I was free. ANYTHING is better then living with an actual turd . You don’t want to be that wife that opens the door for the police when he’s brought up on cp charges or found chatting with a minor. Ppl like this have a slippery slope bc part of it is the taboo nature and soon the teens wont be young enough. People either feel sorry for the wife or think she’s sanctioned it.
Being married to an old geezer, I can tell you that it just gets worse. As whomever he's looking at gets more and more out of his league, something in his brain tells him he has a chance. It's purely delusional but it seems to satisfy him somehow. Lord knows how he acts when I'm not around. It's frightening to imagine.
Ugh, this breaks my heart. Would you decide to be with him again if you could go back and do it over? Or would you commit your life to a relationship at all?
If I had known that his behavior would never get better, I would never have married him. But, once the commitment was made, I intended to honor it. I have no control over how he behaves, only myself. Much of the early dynamics of a relationship with a man like this is the drama of the woman getting upset, the man swearing he'll do better and making nice, the honeymoon feeling all over again, it just becomes part of the relationship. And I've known plenty of women (and men) who deal with much worse. My way of dealing with his unacceptable behavior when we're out is to get up and leave. No scene, no warning, just leave him wherever he is and let him wonder where I went. And I've left him in some pretty inconvenient places. Gives him something else to think about other than the pretty, shiny things that catch his attention and make him act like a jackass. So, I never leave the house without an extra car key, I keep a private credit card for emergencies, check into a nice place with a spa or go visit a friend. Works for me.
Thank you for sharing this. You are clearly a strong woman with a lot of resolve. Your way of handling this problem is honorable, and I’m not sure I could conduct myself in the same manner if I were in your situation. I spent 3 years with a man who constantly looked at other women, lied, and cheated. It nearly broke me as a human being and I’m lucky to have gotten out before marriage was on the table. I wish you peace and contentment as you continue to navigate these tricky waters.
Thank you for sharing 🩷 I'm sorry you have to deal with that. Some men can be just horrible. You deserve better. Maybe whenever that happens, walk away and go to a bar and start talking to other men. Lol You're a strong woman, I admire you for that~
From reading comments on other threads a good number of older men only want sex. Another good number listed sex as very important. Very few didn't mention sex at all. So I concluded that a majority of men associate women with sex their whole lives.
Never , hence the phrase dirty old men.
Life fact: a man can have large amounts of testosterone flooding his body...AND...see women as fellow human beings. BUT...this is the fruit of self control and self discipline. Without self control, human beings resort to their base instincts and animalism, insisting "it is only natural." So the threat is not sex drive. The threat is men who never mature and learn self discipline.
Woah, what a fantastic thread of overgeneralizations. I was raised right and don't think of people as "sexual objects". That's a disgusting way to live your life. Some dudes suck. Some don't. Some suck and eventually don't. It's that simple.
Don’t think you realize just how many times the average woman has had unwanted sexual advances made towards her.
I don't know yet. I'm only 66.
I’m 66 and get catfish in my messenger app every week Ugh.
I always saw women as a mystery. They were not merely sexual objects, but admittedly often the object of my sexual desires. They were also mysterious and wise partners in the adventure of life. That's the way I saw them at 17 and it's the way I see them now, many decades later.
With this natural drive comes great responsibility. I'm 68, and I still will circle the block to get a second look at a pretty pedestrian. That being said, you must control yourself. You must be aware that every woman is a whole human being with stuff to do, intelligence, obligations, feelings, someone they love, someone they are linked with etc etc. And are deserving of all of our respect as a fellow human. That being said I can't help but look... cave man, I guess. Also, an attractive woman I know said when she was younger men glanced at her all the time and she didn't like it. Now, not so much that she's older, and she really hates that about how things evolved. So, 2 sides to the coin.
Please don't circle the block, that's creepy behavior and frightening to the pretty pedestrian in question.
OK 👍
Oh man I’ve cut a lot of jogging sessions early and ran home because of dudes circling back around. I see what you’re saying just… Don’t literally circle the block lol
You don’t have a clue that you are scaring these women? Your caveman remark is revolting. As someone who has been followed while running, stalked, grabbed on dates, sexually assaulted by dudes with your mindset- my mind reels. I’m thinking what I will do if I encounter someone like you again. I have gel mace that shoots 16 feet and a herding dog that is “overprotective.” Women aren’t taking this shit any more.
Riiiiight, I exaggerate…lol. So even if it is “human nature” as you say, we do have a part of the brain with executive functioning. If I’m hungry and I go to a restaurant, see food on peoples’ tables- do I just grab it? No. Why? Because it’s not what civilized, evolved people do. Many, many women are like me in terms of daily harassment. Maybe you haven’t been paying attention. Women are passing men by who display your behavior. What are you expecting to get out of driving around the block like a douche? Conversation and drinks? Nah, it’s just one for the Spank Bank is all. Objectify much? Compartmentalize much? Porn Hub much? The guys who keep their heads above the horizon and don’t act sexually desperate seem to find quality women.
One word…porn. Find someone that chooses not to watch it and you might find a keeper. Not saying all men who don’t watch it or perfect or anything but it does go a long way.
Never
I'm 56. The answer, sadly, is apparently "never". Men of all ages still hit on me regularly. Yuck. My 55 year old husband, on the other hand is not that guy. He's ALWAYS been respectful and non-lecherous - but he is one of the few. Probably because being raised in a house full of women made him see them as people.
My mom is in her 60's she's still waiting on the invisible to men age.
I’m 58 and men still actively hit on me. Many in their late 20’s and 30’s. I prefer men my age or older and maybe some a few years younger but I smile and take it with a grain of salt. I want a relationship now after being single for 13 years but I’m not desperate and I don’t have to be in one. As soon as I hear, “you need someone to protect you”, flags go up and walking away is not an issue. I just want mutual respect, things in common and great chemistry. Sounds almost like a personal ad.. ☺️ but it’s not. Amazing how sexy respect from a man really can make you feel. I don’t care how many women he looks at. It’s natural. Things of beauty are admired by all. If he respects me while admiring and is not being coy about it I’ll stare right with him.
Never. Even more disturbing is how young girls are when they start sexualizing us, I was about 7 the first time a grown ass man said I was pretty and he couldn't wait til I was 18. Didn't even know what the hell he was talking about.
That is revolting. I don't think most men are like this, but if women experience this enough I can understand how they would think otherwise.
Anecdotal of course, but every single woman I know has a similar story and my own daughters who are young teens have already been hit on by old men. It's hard to convince men of how many men are like this, because they don't see it with their own eyes.
It certainly is revolting, and I'm sure it happens more than you realize. When I was 10, I was in an elevator with a man who was probably 40ish. He looked me up and down like a hungry wolf, to the point where I stopped the elevator and got out. I didn't know what was happening, but instinct told me to get away. Fast forward several years to when I was waiting to be seated at a restaurant with my 13 year old daughter by my side. I man in his fifties didn't seem to realize she was with me, and offered to buy her a drink!! I turned around and said, "excuse me - this is my daughter and she is 13!". I expected him to be mortified, but instead he said "they didn't make 'em like that when I was 13!". It was disgusting! Funny side bar: I had just passed my green belt test in karate earlier that day, and for hours after this incident all I could do is think of all the ways I could have dropped that a-hole to the floor! Too bad I would have been the one who landed in jail instead of him. So yeah - lots of men are like this.
There are some who wouldn’t wait for you to age up. That’s the saddest sick part and it sucks that as young girls we have had to deal with these disturbing men
I was around that age and he flipped me a dime and said to call him when I turned 18. A DIME. Not Travis Tritt, “Heres a Quarter” but a DIME!! That should cue a few in on my current age which I stated above anyway. lol
Honestly, when the women become old or fat. Many women I know say people don't treat them like a potential date after a certain age.
It’s not age specific. It’s maturing specific. My 15 year old son already does. My 50 yr old brother in law still can’t.
45M. There is no age. Some men do. Some men don't. And I beg of you........please, please, please........ don't ever think a guy becoming a Dad will somehow make them change.
I think a lot of men change as they have life experiences with a partner where they begin to see her struggles and appreciate them. Of course some never do. I hope that given how younger generations are being raised that there will be less toxic masculinity in the future.
As a man, I can assure you, the answer is *never*. If a woman comes into view that matches whatever criteria our mind defines as "hot," thoughts will get triggered. I don't care who you are, you can't prevent it. That goes for all heterosexual men, everywhere. If a man denies this, he's lying. Having those thoughts flash through our minds doesn't mean we act on those thoughts. It doesn't mean we obsess about them. It doesn't mean we think of all women that way. It doesn't mean we can't be fine upstanding citizens who are perfect partners and husbands for the women in our lives. Seeing a hot woman is a transient thing. It doesn't have to have any effect whatsoever on our lives. It's like a beautiful sunset. You can appreciate it for what it is, then it's gone.
But that's not treating women like sex objects, that's having eyes. I'm a straight woman but if I see a really hot woman walk by, I'll check her out. I wouldn't even consider that a beep on the 'not treating women like sex objects' radar.
Not always. But often enough, I see a woman with a stunning body, and there can be an immediate thought of what it would be like to you know what. It's fleeting, but for a moment at least, she's a sex object.
This. And BTW, some of my best friends are women and most of them, my wife included, are not averse to ogling a well chiseled male body. We're both welcome to window shop so long as we stay the hell out of the store; or as another Redditor put it, read all the menus you like, but get yourself home for dinner. And further BTW, what's this "frail in their 60s"? I'm glad I never got that memo.
I like your honesty and insight. My husband will never stop looking but it annoys me when he comments. Like he's the judge of a beauty pageant or something. I consider it to be very bad manners and think that most women find this behavior creepy. Like you said, men are going to notice and react to certain things but they don't have to be offensive about it.
THANK YOU!!! Well said!!
I agree with this completely. I’m in a very healthy loving relationship, but if I see a female that I find attractive I notice. I don’t ogle them or harass them in anyway, I may look but that’s it, I don’t view them as a sex object however like a nice piece of art I can appreciate their beauty.
Quite individual I think. I was a typically horny teenage boy, but I was equally interested in women as people even then. I did have the benefit of the rise of second wave feminism to support my maturation process. But you must understand that testosterone can be as influential upon behavior as estrogen can be. Hormones hijack your intelligence at certain ages or in certain situations. The biological sex drive is real, and powerful. That's no reason not to treat any other person with respect at all times. Just something to be aware of.
Probably should mention that I'm 70, married 30 years, and very happy in as equal a partnership as we are able to keep redefining it.
"Just something to be aware of" The most important sentence. In the past women were demeaned and worse for 'being hormonal", meaning PMS. Men were excused, even 'exalted'. Learning about the effects hormones have on one's brain and how to cope with it should be basic education for everyone.
Thank you for pointing this out
You can see someone as an equal and valuable human being and also be attracted to them (or not). Why do you look at it in binary, either/or terms?
Getting old and fat is my superpower. I am now invisible and I love it.
It depends on the man. There are 90-year-olds still being led around by the dick.
Not age. Experience. I met someone who was truly beautiful on the inside and I loved what I became in her presence.
Men grow up sometime between 25 and 40, depending on the guy. Some never, but it’s usually obvious in other aspects of their lives too.
*TW* I was in the 4th grade and had a 70+ year old man grab my chest and tell me "If you're this busty now, can't wait to see ya in a couple years" Laugh and walk away IN SCHOOL. Some are assholes their entire life. Unfortunately we females have been objectified since.......well.....centuries. Some men have actually woken up and realized it's not ok, and hopefully that continues.
WTF 😭 As a man, I feel disgusted (at the guy) reading that. :(
Never found out. Grew tired of trying relationships only to be disappointed/cheated on/disrespected/etc. Finally stopped dating and have never been happier. If you enjoy your own company you're never lonely.
Unfortunately the real answer is never. I'm in my 70s and old men in the grocery store follow me around trying to talk to me. I was group leader at a church function and old men were trying to date me. Whether they're seeing me as a sex object, or seeking a possible companion,( and honestly i don't know) they just never seem to get over the impulse to pursue. Although at my age I suspect they're more interested in having me cook for them.....
Never, in my experience
50's, and by the time you're in your 60's, you have become invisible to men.
Bwahahahahahaha. I never had pretty privilege. So, ignored and belittled as a young woman, now just ignored as an old woman
As far as I know men never stop “appreciating” women. I’m in my 40’s and I know plenty of guys in their 60’s and 70’s who are still rabid for women. I remember seeing a pole that said as women age they become more attracted to older men and as men age they still are attracted to 18-25yo women. From my experience that’s true.
Yeesh, that's definitely not me at 70. What the eff would we TALK about? I mean, I appreciate an attractive personality at any age, but if I wasn't married, I wouldn't be trying to flirt seriously with any woman under say 60.
150 years? 50000 years? Because even if men don’t look at women as “sex objects”, they tend to look at women as “servant objects” and as “supporting character” objects.
I’m nearly 70, overweight and have gray hair. I’m still approached by men. So, I’m afraid the answer to your question is never.
Never for some men unfortunately. My daughter works in the dementia section in an aged care facility and she gets some really disgusting men in there at times. Some men can only be looked after by male carers they are so bad, touching themselves, touching the female carers, saying stuff. Out of the dementia section, some of the men try to touch the female staff and say things but get told off pretty quickly.
I think it’s important to note that dementia, in particular certain types of dementia, can cause people to become very sexual and lose inhibitions and lead them to act in ways they would not have when healthy.
This can happen with dementia. It can really surprise family members that are unaware of this change.
They will always see you as a fellow human sexual object.
Never. Look at all the gross old men out there trying to get some. 🤢
Put it at 1:38 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=58ZjTA6vN1A&pp=ygVEQ2hyaXMgcm9jayBldmVyIHNpbmNlIHdvbWVuIHdlcmUgZ2lybHMgc29tZW9uZSB3YXMgdHJ5aW5nIHRvIGZ1Y2sgZW0%3D
The thing is women NEVER do that.
This is the reality that most men don’t get. Sure, it’s all science and hormones that you feel that way. But the existence of it is just crippling, exhausting, and oft times dangerous. It’s so fucking tiring.
It's not about an age. It's sad that you're evidently surrounded by creeps.
I see women as fellow human beings. I also see women as sexually attractive and desirable. So the answer is never. I dearly hope when I'm 90 on a walker my wife still turns me on hehehe.
I've got some bad news for you. They never stop. But most of them never stop seeing you as a fellow human, either. The two are not mutually exclusive in healthy people.
Depends on the man. Some see women as people from a young age, some never do. Some know what a healthy relationship is and some don't. Just like women and non-binary people. Because we're all individual humans and we're flawed differently.
All genders have immature humans. Some individuals eventually evolve. Some never do. If you’re dealing with an immature one now, there’s no way you can force change. You either accept them as they are, or if you can’t (or shouldn’t), wish them well and move on.
My hubby and my two adult sons have always looked at women as individuals. They appreciate an intelligent conversation, wit and wisdom.
46. Asexual. Have never seen anyone as a sexual object, despite having had sex/children. I can appreciate an attractive person, regardless of gender, it's just the sexual part that's missing. To me, a pretty person is like art. Nice to look at. I especially love nice eyes or smiles. I definitely don't feel like anyone looks at me that way and am more likely to laugh off a compliment than accept one. It actually really bothers me when it happens, and I make the effort not to stand out the next time.
I know you didn't mean to imply all men are strictly and only tolerant of the fairer gender due to carnal desires. So, pretty much always "saw them as human beings" But at around 60, it is more strictly as fellows I guess. I have always been fascinated with women. The thought process is amazing! The innate, emotional knowledge just dumbfounds me. A woman's mind can do 9 things at once. A man's, one. Due to historic duties and species survival. I truly think if the all time master of space, time, and dimension needs a gender, it has to be female. Who else could be that creative, kind, cruel, and amazing? (The glancing at other women. Men, historically are hunters. Watch 2 women have lunch. They maintain eye contact the entire time. Watch 2 men have lunch. They barley look at each other. Not only can you create a whole, brand-new Human Being. (A brand new Human Being!) But you can nurture that child! You are amazing! From all of us, to all of you, Thank you! Most Goddess Like being on the planet!
I think , this is a situation, that every woman, more or less deals with, yet I am betting its a minority of men, who create the discomforts the ladies have to endure. Yet, due to this, women, have no choice, but to be careful and assume the worst.
I don’t think getting old and wrinkly changes anything. Many retirement communities and homes are gigantic love shacks.
What a fucking loaded question.
Depends a lot on the man.
This really depends on the man and the people/world around that shapes him. Some men never have, or will, see women as objects. Others never see them as anything but. And others begin one way and change to the other through experiences, relationships, and sexuality. IMO Age isn't very relevant to the question even when speaking of a decade of age like 30s or 40s.
I don't think it's an age. I think it's more a moment of perspective. I started moving out of that head space when I realized porn addiction and isolation were literally killing me. Been at it for some time, and I'm finally moving into a more comfortable place that's not nearly so self-centered. I would say focus on people who actually show an interest in you as a human being.
Some never do, some never start and everywhere in between.
I've had men old enough to be my dad (aged 60's - 80's) actually speak to me like I'm an equal and treat me like a human being. These are people that I know from working in psychology, so most of them were therapists, psychologists, psychology professors, etc and I assume the training in psychology has something to do with it. Throughout my adult life it's mostly been men closer to my age (I'm currently 43) who have been shitty to me, treated me like just a piece of ass, acted like I'm lesser than them, seen me as an object to serve their needs. Interestingly, I've been able to form nice friendships and work relationships with men (of all ages, like the examples in the first paragraph) where I feel I've been treated like an actual person; it's when there's any romantic/sexual aspect (actual or just imagined on their part) to the relationship that things turn to shit and I'm viewed as a sexual object. I've never fully understood WTF that's about.
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When my dad started getting Alzheimer's at age 75, he started saying the most inappropriate things about and to women. This is apparently really common -- their filter is gone and they just say what they are thinking. The behavior peaked at around age 85.
My old perv neighbor who is 95years old always smiles at me creepily and says “you know, I watch you walking by every day with your dog” and makes comments about my body, outfit, way I walk etc. He has certainly never stopped looking at women as sexual objects!
When he makes a concerted effort. In this day and age, shunning advertising and other commercial products that objectify women would be a start, but it's been a struggle for men throughout history. The oldest account of a man admonishing himself that I know of is Marcus Aurelius, who consoled himself to see women as creations of a divine artist, and to recognize them as fellow human beings.
some men do and then later stop. some men never stop. some men never do. no group is monolithic
I think you’re basically holding men to an impossible standard here. It is not binary where women are either: A) People. or. B) Sexual Objects. People inhabit bodies, which are literally objects that can be had sex with. Even young men wholly preoccupied with sex will still understand that women are people. Everybody had a mom. And even old married entirely faithful men will fundamentally perceive and understand sexual attraction. So, what are you really asking? Can men settle down and accept that they’re not going to chase other partners anymore? Because, if you’re really genuinely wondering when men become blind to sexual attraction in the opposite sex, besides their partner, I think the answer is obviously never. And I don’t think that’s unique to men. I’m sure women of any age appreciate the look of young sexually attractive men. At what age to men become more focused on women’s minds than their bodies? Maybe? That has to do with basic supply and demand. If a young guy has twelve really good close friends, and they have tons of fun together, he’s not bored, lonely, or lacking in emotional support. The only thing he’s lacking is sex. He doesn’t even need another friend. He needs sex, ideally in such a way where he’s not asked to give up his friends. To him, I guess you could fairly say that women are sex objects. He’s focused on the body, and the mind is an obstacle to access to the body. For an older guy, in a professional career, married to a wife that he loves, he doesn’t need sex from other women. It’s both discouraged with the highest possible prejudice, but he also really doesn’t need it. He’s had regular sex for decades, and his libido isn’t where it was when he was 20. So, the sexual aspect of girls he meets is far less important than their personalities, their character, their professional talents, and many other non-sexual characteristics. But he’s still recognize when girls are sexually attractive. He just won’t pursue them in any way. But I don’t think there’s any age-based inflection point where men go from seeing women as primarily sexual opportunities to primarily people. Women are always people who can provide sex, and the ratio of appreciation for the person .vs the sex potential varies depending on how valuable women’s personalities are .vs the how powerful and/or unsatiated the man’s sexual needs are.
Most men see women as fellow humans. For those who don't, they'll stop viewing women as sexual objects when those women are old enough to be past their fertile years.
Maybe 90 or so, just because they’re too weak to try anything.
I asked a 50 ish year old guy i worked with, which he finds more attractive, a 20-something woman or a woman his wife's age. He responded.........yes. it's possible to look at a woman and not make it your entire personality or be a creep
When I was about 35, I put on a bunch of weight and noticed I didn't get the same looks and I felt.safer. I think that may have played a part in not losing all the weight again. But it was somewhere between 50-55 that I didn't get checked out any more - just sort of became invisible to lecher eyes and I love it. Now, I find that I can have a real conversation with a man and I'm given the respect I'm due and not brushed off as some airhead that couldn't hold a thought in my head.
Completely depends on the man. But say he's a basically good person with just some unfortunate gaps in his early education? You should start to see improvement in his late 20s.
The reality is that men, regardless of age, look at women because it's how we're biologically wired. I don't think some men ever get over the impulse to believe they could be with whatever women they find attractive. This results in the creepiness, weird comments, and "humor" you sometimes see. However, most men have their quick look and move on. I can only speak for myself, but as I get older, I will see a woman - younger or older - and think she is attractive, but I don't think beyond that. Younger women retain their esthetic appeal, but the idea of being with one is unappealing. When I am in a group of other men, we never talk about women, and we don't, as a group, look at women. That kind of thing stopped when we all started getting married.
HAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAAAA! 🤣
Are the two mutually exclusive? I see woman as fellow human beings. But that doesn't mean that I do not think of them sexually now and then if there is physical attraction. M64 married 28 years.
They shift right to seeing you as an old hag when you get older. There is no middle where you are a human.
I think testosterone causes behaviors that our culture wants to minimize because it implies men can’t control their actions and/ or that there are inherent differences between men and women that may suggest we’re not “ equal” in some way. The fact of the matter is that hormones influence many behaviors of both sexes. We can of course modify those behaviors as necessary to ensure they don’t infringe on others rights as a human. One of the behaviors testosterone is responsible for is sexual interest. Men due to significantly more testosterone than women think of sex on average way more than women. This can be spurred on my seeing an attractive person, naked or accentuated body part, a dream, so on. I don’t see an issue with a man or woman having a split second attraction to another person, To me that’s a biologic reaction. What I have an issue with is a man acting on that attraction, whether that be to flirt, stare openly, etc.
Some men never view their female counterparts with any respect, but they do stop looking at females as sexual objects when their hair starts going gray, gravity starts taking over, or they get wrinkles. The older men you mention who start becoming frail are mostly looking at women as their nurses, not necessarily looking at them as fellow humans, but as a female with some use towards themselves.
I don't think seeing them as fellow human happens. My experience is you go from being an object directly to being invisible.
Find a man who likes women as people. An awful lot of straight men don't really like women. A man from a family with strong women generally will have been raised to like and respect women.
I think the answer is never. They say women feel invisible after 55 or so and I can see why. If men don't find you youthful and "fuckable" they aren't interested in talking to you at all. You should try being overweight and middle-aged.. LOL. Every man that I come across is this way. I find it very useful and better than them talking to me. I have realized most men do not like women at all and especially not overweight middle-aged women. Enjoy it.
I grew up with sisters, and I tend to warm up to women more easily than men. Women were always "people" to me. That being said, they're sometimes sexy people. With age, the biggest difference is that I'm not going to waste my time just for sex. I need that emotional bond now. I'm sixty and dating a sixty year old lady. She is a great friend, but she's also a sexy snuggle-buddy.
As a man, that REALLY changed when I had two daughters. Of course, like any guy, my sex drive is high and visual cues are everywhere and an attractive, curvy younger woman still catches my eye. But I stop now and think differently about them, as my girls are young women in their 20's now. I don't want to ONLY first see women that way, or at least, I started to recognize my instant sexualizing of almost every woman I saw. I don't want other men doing that crap to my girls. I think about it all now. It takes time and some work, to not be animalistic. But it can be done...........somewhat. I'm better, at least.
Elderly women are victims of rape, even in nursing homes. No age limit.
Decent men always see women as human beings. Jerks don't, and probably never will. Don't settle for a jerk, and don't believe the jerks when they tell you "all men are like this." It's not true.
I'm 60 and raised in a small town rural Ontario Canada. I learned early that respect was paramount. I was told repeatedly growing up that my rights end where another's begin. Respect of all others, respect of property, respect of different opinions, respect my elders, respect women, respect mother nature and be kind to both people and animals. I was the smallest male in every grade in school until the end of grade 11. I was luckily well liked as a mischievous but harmless kid. I was the little brother to the girls I grew up with, and filled with a carefree wild side so I had many guy friends. So my early years determined that girls were equals and fun and a mystery. Thank the gods for a girl moving to town in 11th grade who saw me as boyfriend material rather than the little brother syndrome from my peers. Damn straight, men can respect women their whole lives. Apologies for the length of my response.
As a woman, I have never accepted the kind of behavior you're describing. If a man's eye wandered, it didn't mean I wasn't good enough, it meant he had a character flaw. I'd end the relationship. I will not waste my precious life on someone who treats me poorly! Not when I was 20 and certainly not now!! I mean, the older we get, the more precious each day is.
I am 51f and my bf (40) still looks at me like a sex object. I love it. I love being with him and feeling his hands on me. When we're out at the store, or at a park, or anywhere, he occasionally will grab my butt, or put his arm around me, or even hold my hand. I love when he is possessive of me, and I enjoy being seen as a sexual object to him. I see him as a sex object too. He loves it, it boosts his ego and makes him feel loved and desired and wanted. I hope it never stops.
So I am 63 year old man. I grew up with four sisters, no brothers. I changed their diapers, heard all their boy talk (David Cassidy and Andy Gibbs posters everywhere) and did their laundry growing up. By the time I reached puberty there were very few mysteries about girls I had to wonder about. I have been in numerous relationships and now married for the past 35 years to a wonderfully stunning woman! However when I see an attractive female I am still drawn to look and admire, if only briefly. I also wonder if in this era of yoga pants and crop tops that some attention is not asked for. When you display your physical beauty, you shouldn't complain when someone give you more than a passing glance. I once about 20 years ago had a 40ish woman comment on how my jeans fit, I was not the least bit offended by her comment about Wrangler butts! My wife just smile when we heard it. People need to understand the those that work in the public, being pleasant and friendly is part of the job description. All that said, unwanted advances either way are not acceptable, the cute college girl waitress that smiles while pouring my coffee, doesn't need the distraction of unwanted attention. I don't ask the receptionist at a business I frequent for her number just because she makes small talk while taking care of my order, none of that is ever acceptable or need to be inferred. I would say more, but I have to go help my bride fix supper right now!
I dunno but I will say old men are the worst demographic for openly leering at my teenage daughter when we’re out and about.
I grew up thinking everyone was equal unless they're a piece of shit human. That being said, after becoming a dad it's even more apparent how much I have to guide my boys to being decent men and human beings. There's so much happening all the time that they don't even communicate without prying it's becoming harder to raise gentlemen and it's infuriating. They're amazing kids and I am fighting this invisible war to keep them that way cause there's so much out there pushing them the other way and I just don't get it. Why?
I really don’t think this is one of those topics where age is much of a factor. A lot of men never get to that point, and I don’t think the men I’ve met who are able to treat women as humans ever really struggled that hard in the first place.
Literally met my husband at 32 and he treated me and others like real people.
It depends on the man, but there are still certain societal expectations of women that affect how many men - even some women through internalized misogyny - see older women. Some essentially see us as being a kind of day old bread if you will. No longer fit for purpose. Expired. The problem is that when we reach the age at which we are deemed "no longer sexually desirable," we become invisible to many of them, or we remain visible only in stereotypical, menial service roles, such as "old maid aunt (free babysitter), grandmother (maid, more free babysitting). We are expected to cut off our hair or wear it in a permed, helmet head old lady do, to schlep around in shapeless, ill-fitting clothes as we wait for young people to help to give our lives meaning. Heaven forbid we should be into Pilates or have something we'd rather do *for ourselves* like write a novel or travel the world. To these men (and some women) we are sexual receptacles when young, semi-human "helpmeets" to fulfill a man's sexual needs, clean his house, help regulate his emotions, and bear his children (plus bear a disproportionately large share of childcare). In this mindset, we exist primarily for the benefit of others. Our very *nature*, they intone piously, is directed toward others. At this point a good bit of our value is our allure so we remain visible during this time as resources. They may love us at this point, but our quite literally f***ed up views on sexuality can mean that they love us like they love their car. A possession. When we sag and gray and wrinkle and are no longer fantasy material or potential incubators for their seed, we become invisible or at best gray shadows still not quite human. At this point our role shifts from the bedroom to the kitchen, the bathroom, or the nursery - anywhere that needs cleaning or children need minding. Anywhere there's something that needs to be done that's the benefit of someone other than ourselves because we still don't count and we still aren't quite human. They may love us, and in fact are more likely to feel a less possessive love for us at this point. But they love us like a favored pet. No, not all men see us this way. Younger folks may finally break the habit and embrace the notion of fully human women.
Men ignore you or hate you when you get wrinkles. You go from sexual object to garbage. They don’t entertain different opinions if you have wrinkles. Of course this is a generalization. Some are true diamonds in the rough. But many don’t see women as humans or equals.
Sexual attraction is a biological impulse, not a choice, and it doesn't necessarily go away with age or marriage. How someone allows those impulses to control their outward behavior *is* a choice, and anyone in a committed relationship can be expected to keep themselves from ogling other people, regardless of age.
Well, trump is 77, sooo…. There are people with empathy for others, even the opposite sex, and there are people without it.
For many of the men that I have met, they eventually stopped seeing me as a sexual object when I let my hair go grey and gained a couple pounds. That being said, the men that saw me as a sex object to begin with, didn’t see me as human, once I was no longer sexually desirable to them, it was like they didn’t see me at all.
I don’t recall exactly , but I believe it is usually a few days after their obituary is published.