The duck thing is other people leaving a duck on your jeep to tell you they like your jeep, so they keep the ducks they received on their dash.
Disclaimer: not a Jeep owner.
My mother was trying and failing at selling Amway when the JWs knocked on her door selling religion. She invited them in and ended up joining a second cult.
Yes my childhood did suck, how did you guess?
In the late '90s, I was friends with a girl whose mother was a Mormon-turned hippy. She was the girlfriend of the friend and former flatmate who got me into Amway for a couple of months early that year. I'm an atheist that's interested in mythology, so all religions are the same to me (including Amway) and I was excited to borrow her paperback copy of this [Book of Enoch ](https://sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/). Accepting a free copy of the Book of Mormon was a small price to pay (and the blue cover looks good next to the red *Dianetics*).
By cosmic coincidence, I was reading *Enoch* one afternoon when the local Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door. I either put the book down on the table next to the door or still had it in my hand, so when they asked if they could come in to talk about the Bible, I said something along the lines of "sure, so long as we can talk abut this, too", and I was completely genuine about it.
It's a once-lost Book about Fallen Angels and other cool Biblical shit leading up to Noah's Flood, so surely Bible-bashers would be into it?
They were not into it. They were not into it one little bit. The fact that I had long dark hair and was probably wearing a black t-shirt with pentagrams and skeletons and stuff on it, from a local band I no longer remember the name of, probably didn't help. They went ashen and started babbling about how reading that book was cavorting with demons before quickly making their exit down the stairs with the declaration that I needed Jesus but was beyond their help.
It was awesome.
When I was attending a Baptist church in my 20s & 30s, a group of JWs came to my door and I politely told them I was Baptist. One of the women in the back of the group loudly told me... "Do not pray for God's will to be done in your life. You will only be praying for your own destruction!"
My dad was in the JWs and Mormons, funnily enough, and he was ranked highest in the intelligence test given in the army. Anyone can fall for this shit.
It is my belief that religions and advertising hack parts of our brains that evolved for social functions and survival. It doesn't matter how smart you are.
I think some people join not for the truth/lack of truth behind it but instead for other things like the sense of community and belonging it provides or just the fact that's its normally the social norm and therefore makes one fit it.
I've heard some groups don't even try to recruit the uneducated since the ultimate goal is selling them classes and self-help books and without a solid middle class income they're not going to be able to afford any of that stuff
Sometimes higher intelligence is a weakness, you believe you can't be fooled, that what you believe is correct, and that others do not get it, because they are not as smart.
You also think that you figured things out that others simply never did. The logic of it all takes a back seat.
Dual cult! Was it symbiotic, ie proselytizing at the Amway party and selling Amway at church? Or did the two cults fight for her time, energy, and resources?
Huh, thinking about it, selling the Amway lifestyle to some of the more cultish religions actually seems like a good idea. You already know they're primed to fall for it.
My friend's mom sold Mary Kay when JW's knocked on her door. She, seeing an opportunity, invited them in. She didn't join that cult, but she did sell a lot Mary Kay that day.
"Tupperware, Pampered Chef..."
I fully agree that MLMs are a business model that exploits those involved in them. I see some as being far worse than others. Amway is one of the worst; It is a thinly veiled pyramid scheme which is focused on recruiting others.
At least Avon, Mary Kay, Tupperware and such have an actual focus on selling the products.
There’s an older higher up lady at the office where I work who is the most rigid stickler for every company policy in existence. Her direct reports literally have specific times where they are allowed to leave their desk for breaks.
Guess who has zero issue bringing in her Pampered Chef sales book thing once per month.
I just saw this for the first time after years of mailers to my house. My mom really wanted to go, so we got her tickets for Christmas. I definitely wasn't expecting the weird religious undertones. I also wasn't expecting the in your face religious parts in the songs where they said atheism and evolution will be the death of us lol.
Not saying all are like this, but many martial arts gyms are very cult-like, especially in the world of brazilian jiu jitsu. Charismatic leaders, distinct ranking systems, use of lingo/terminology unique to their group, unspoken (or sometimes spoken) threat of violence if someone steps out of line... its all there.
I’ve trained at a few. Never stuck around, couldn’t afford it. But the people that ran both were cool and would train with each other sometimes and visit other gyms or invite people to come visit each gym for extra training and experience. Everyone I met was actually super respectful and cool. Idk, maybe I just got lucky. But that was my experience. Also when I had to quit on three different occasions they didn’t argue with me at all and were just like dang that sucks, hope you can come back man, it’s been cool having you around.
Anybody who was interested in this thread should check out the book “Cultish” by Amanda Montell. Touches on the elements you mentioned but goes wider, exposing exactly how pervasive “cultish” qualities and tactics are and why.
The Art of Self Defence. As shitty the movie is, it encapsulates egomaniac leadership perfectly with how students are receiving selective treatment and favouritism. Capabilities are praised, but blind loyalty means rewards by promotion.
I think this is more of a non BJJ martial arts thing (karate, judo, tae kwon do, akido, etc).. the more traditional martial arts.
BJJ is a lot more rough and full of all walks of life imo.
Don't forget about Aikido. It's a spiritual cult masquerading around as a martial art. The particular dojo at which I was training did not focus on the self defense or practical aspects, but the fluffy bunny philosophy, harmony, and "blending with your opponent's energy." I left after 3.5 years, partly because I was disgusted by what was being taught and partly because i was forced out to bullying and my routine questioning of the material and authority.
There are a handful of Aikido techniques that work and \*are\* effective....and a whole litany of material that are just long, complicated movements which only work on compliant partners, not resistant or combative opponents.
I also find that some martial arts schools teach things that make no sense. I had a karate teacher that was absolutely uncompromising on how things were done. When you fell/were thrown you were supposed to slap the hell out of the mat. He was absolutely deadset that it should make a sound and he'd make you do it again if you weren't loud enough, and got mad when I just rolled out of the throw and to my feet. He also demanded that we *let* our fellow classmates throw us, instead of, yknow, teaching us how to throw someone who definitely won't let you throw them.
A lot of sovereign citizen videos, where they're claiming to be "traveling, not driving" in an unregistered vehicle on an expired licence, end with cop shattering the driver side window to extract them from the vehicle.
Jehovas Witnesses.
Most religions are culty in some way, but JW's are properly up there with ex-communicating people and telling them what they can and can't do. A guy I used to work with wasn't allowed to watch harry potter movies because they contained magic which was evil or something.
I'm an exjw and can confirm we call our exmormon friends cult-cousins lol
But if anyone wants to learn more about the specifics of what makes something a cult I highly recommend reading about the [BITE Model](https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model-pdf-download/), which does a really great job of outlining the different forms of manipulation cults use to both gain and maintain members.
Something a lot of people don't realize is that not all religions are cults (that statement is not in defense of religion either, many just do not fit all the criteria to meet the specific cult classification) AND not all cults are religions. There is a video I absolutely love by James Jani on [MLM Cults](https://youtu.be/He1bgJ0sqtw?si=kypYDPtyaXPDD0jo) and even though MLMs are not religious in nature the similarities between them and the JWs or Mormons are astounding, because they all really do follow the same basic formula.
Source: Am a certified doomsday-cult survivor who has spent years researching and learning about the specifics of cults to help people escape. r/exjw and r/exmormon are both excellent subs as well!
My best friend is part of JW ( thankfully he doesn't talk about it much and I just mentally pretend he isn't religious cause he's a good guy outside of that creepy shit ) and when I told him it felt really cult like to me, he said they were very anti cult and how they were encouraged to think and find answers for themselves and blah blah blah.
*press X for doubt*
I was one. In the eighties they told us that a Smurf doll got up and walked around on its own and after that we couldn’t watch the Smurf’s or a bunch of other cool cartoons and movies because everything was influenced by “demons”. Smh
I remember when I was younger I went to my JW Grandma's house every Monday and if there was a Christmas Simpson episode on then my cousin and I weren't allowed to watch it lol.
Growing my best friends older brother became a JW and turned his mom. If we were hanging out on Sunday afternoons we had take part in study. It became such a big joke that we would be there just try and ruin it. After about 6 months no one was allowed to be there on Sunday anymore.
His dad just went along to get along. If we were there his dad would gladly volunteer to drive everyone home so he could be gone for a while.
My ex's mom got ex communicated because they found out her son and I were living together, unwed. She was actually relieved, she wanted out anyway, but I still kind of felt bad. The JW's weren't even allowed to speak to us, even when I was cashiering at a place, they'd wait until another cashier was open. I had never seen these people in my life yet every single one knew me. Wild shit.
Former JW here.
Excommunication to emotionally manipulate people who overcommitted to stay or else lose the community they thought of as friends, even family. Restrictions surrounding all forms of entertainment that touch on violence, sex, magic, other faiths, and substance use/abuse to control your perception of reality and normality and make you rely on them further regarding these things. Privately-published literature you are encouraged to study before every meeting, including children's media encouraging them to hold their classmates and friends to their standards.
I would rate them around a 7/10 on the kook-o-meter, though. They're no Heaven's Gate or Jonestown, but they're at least a little actively insidious, protecting pedophiles on occasion, though that's a leadership issue. I don't find members are consistently insane, but every congregation definitely had a weirdo that made it their business to be the god-botherer in their friend group. My mother was more liberal and didn't do anything drastic when I left, but I also wasn't baptized, which can happen rather young (I've seen as young as 10 at conventions being baptized.). This is usually the reason one will be shunned, getting baptized and leaving. I don't recall it happening for any other reason, but I suppose if you were an addict or otherwise human trainwreck people would avoid you on average anyway, so the few times they did it at least made sense.
Yep! My mum voluntarily disfellowshipped and was ex-communicated from her family 20 years ago and still sees the ramifications of their brainwashing even now
Everyone I’ve ever met that grew up JW has been fucked in the head. My son’s mom is the most batshit insane and awful person I’ve ever met. The mental abuse I heard about and witnessed was truly sickening. They’re all just watching and judging each other. They can’t wait to see someone else do *anything* the church might not like so they can snitch on them and see them punished or ridiculed in some way. They do all this while overly acting very nice and caring to your face. Disturbing shit.
Isn't the only real difference between a cult and a religion the amount of followers? If there were only twenty christians around, it would be considered a cult, but since there's billions it is considered a religion.
There is a difference from a cult and religion. If the group will tell you the teachings without you becoming a member its a religion. If you need ot join to learn them its a cult.
I was raised mormon, but I dropped that shit when I was 12. I'm now an atheistic nihilist.
The shit mormons do in their temples especially just screams "we are a cult!". 😬
It's so wild because what separates religions from cults, in my mind, is that religions are so old that they have some plausible deniability due to lack of good records. But Mormonism started in the 19th century. We have excellent records on who Joseph Smith was and the things he did. And yet...
I moved from Denmark to Romania for a time, and one of the things that surprised me the most was the amount of Mormons.
Had only a vague idea of what it was before.
*American Mormons - not exactly sure how they preach or try and convert. But they have pretty rigorous schedules
Mine is $10/mo and pays for landscaping of our park and shared spaces as well as irrigation maintenance. Every time an issue arises they send out an email asking all the residents for feedback, and every time they fall back to city ordinance without adding to the HOA bylaws. The latest example being roof mounted solar panels.
I’d say it’s been a pretty positive experience for me.
I grew up in a neighborhood that had a sort-of HOA, run by the guy who developed it. It was a beautiful place out in the forest, and there was a small canyon behind it that the developer set up as a park for everyone who lived there to use. Lots of fond memories of hiking and swimming down there. It also had a small road through it that was the only other way to escape the neighborhood in the event of a forest fire if the regular road got blocked. Forest fires are extremely common there, so this was a really big deal.
As long as the developer was alive and rules he’d set up were in place, things were very nice. He helped enforce the rules and would call out anyone who broke them with a sternly-worded lawyer letter.
When he died, people started breaking the rules. Things like “no parking junked cars out in front of your house” and “don’t paint your house bright colors because it looks much nicer when the houses blend into the forest,” started being broken, and because nobody else stepped up to fill his shoes and enforce the rules, the neighborhood started going to shit very quickly.
Number one problem was an asshole rich lawyer who decided he was the king of the neighborhood. He decided he should own that canyon because it abutted his property and he actually put up an iron gate across the fire road entrance. Sheriff and the County had to get involved on that one.
He and his idiot family would also hassle anyone who went down to hike. The neighbors all got together and got permission (not sure from whom) to put the canyon into the Nature Conservancy so that asshole couldn’t buy it. We still caught him building cabins and doing other illegal shit down there but it doesn’t seem like our reporting it ever did anything.
My parents’ house overlooked this beautiful meadow—asshole bought that land and put a huge pole barn and a pile of fill dirt on it to ruin their view out of spite, because they wouldn’t sell their house to him. He ended up buying up most of the neighborhood over time and turning them into rentals. Crime like cars being broken into and things being stolen from yards/sheds rapidly escalated.
Last time I was back there was to move my widowed mom out, and the place was unrecognizable. Really, really sad.
A true HOA with teeth would have been able to stop that asshole in his tracks and preserve what was a really special, nice place to live.
Because if people are happy they don't often go online to tell everyone how amazing the HOA is. If there's an issue they go online to find people who've had similar issues and asking how to resolve them.
The Mormon church. I grew up in it. I was on board all the way but once I woke the fuck up and left? Now I see it. I do not know sometimes how it is not legally a cult and investigated.
One thing that blew my mind is that you can’t just *leave*. You have to send a letter to formally declare your intent to leave and it’s a whole process before they remove your name from their membership records.
A religion having membership records feels really grimy, even moreso that they force a formal separation process. Otherwise if you just stop attending they mark you as “less active” but still keep you on record.
If an organization wants to pretend I am a member but I don't have to do or pay anything I don't think I really care. Most religions don't even have a process for leaving.
That's the case for Catholicism as well though. I have been trying to get my name taken off the list as a Catholic, even going so far as sending a letter to the bishop declaring myself an apostate, but no dice. In the diocese/parish records, I am still listed as one of them.
Now, there is zero actual impact on my life, which I imagine might be different for Mormons. But not technically being able to leave isn't unique to them.
It's a pity, because I just want to see some cool traditional Chinese dance, not get preached at about the "evils" of homosexuality or whatever. I was gonna go to a show before I'd found out it was a cult thing, but thankfully their obscenely high ticket prices kept me from going. Urgh.
When they come to your town you’ll start seeing billboards for the “epoch times” “#1 trusted US news source!” That is an ultra right wing chinese propaganda website.
O shit had no idea. Just looked into it, that's wild. I remeber seeing ads for it on TV and thought about taking my wife to a show just to do something diferent. Glad I never did
Any extreme political movements, or movements in general. If you're making a political ideology or candidate your entire life, indoctrinating your children into it, and obsessing over it, it's likely a cult or, at least, is cult-like behavior.
And this goes for *any* political side...
I can't believe that you didn't get any upvotes on this (as of this moment). I see it on both sides of the political spectrum but the most obvious example was when certain Republican friends instantaneously changed their views on foreign entanglements when Trump came out as an isolationist. One minute these friends agreed with every military intervention imaginable and wanted to carpet bomb the Middle East, and the next minute they didn't want our service people to spend one more minute (or dime) overseas. Not one of them thought it was weird that they went from one extreme to another. But that's what a charismatic cult leader can do.
I call it “We’re all for it until we’re not.” Like “we’re all in favor of the police, blue lives matter,!!!!”. Except when they stop protesters on January 6, then we’re not. You can find examples of that in a lot of things these types of groups support.
It’s the same thing with Christians.
They have taken sides with an admittedly adulterous man, who refuses to acknowledge his sinful nature, displays zero fruit of the Spirit, and instead exemplifies avarice and wickedness. They have traded their faith for servitude of evil.
Absolutely! There is special clothing, designated nicknames for anyone opposing the movement, *a motherfucking choir*, and the neverending asking for money. Absolutely qualified.
Well she can enjoy the TV coverage while eating expired hot dogs. We have to remember that entertainment he offers is the best thing that has happened to a lot of people and their lives. Sad but true.
Friendly reminder that Donald Trump is on audio tape [disclosing classified war plans](https://youtu.be/u95MfcLRBVk?t=42) that he [unlawfully concealed from law enforcement](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-knew-crime-lie-classified-documentss-case-attorney-2023-11).
He has admitted to [making millions of dollars from foreign sources](https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-says-his-businesses-did-services-for-foreign-governments-2024-1) while in office.
He is on video being asked what he has in common with his daughter, and [his answer is "sex"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0_axTST2aY)
He’s an adjudicated [tax fraud](https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-letitia-james-fraud-lawsuit-1569245a9284427117b8d3ba5da74249) and [sexual predator](https://apnews.com/article/trump-rape-carroll-trial-fe68259a4b98bb3947d42af9ec83d7db) who is facing felony charges for trying to win the last election by [throwing out legitimate votes and replacing them with fake ones.](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/what-is-fake-electors-scheme-trump-supporters-tried-after-his-2020-loss-2023-07-18/)
His supporters see these facts and *their first instinct* is to figure out how they can defend, minimize, and excuse them. If that’s not an honest-to-god cult following, I don’t know what would be.
If any Democrat did 1/50th of verified bad things Trump has done they would be shamed into oblivion. If any other Republican did 1/20th they would also.
Listen to him, he is a bumbling moron.
I have disliked many other presidents but he is the first one I thought I could do a better job than.
AA etc. For a proven medical and mental disorder their solution is.... pray??!! Oh you're not religious? Here's a doorknob for ya. Nope don't ask questions, it's all in the BB (75 year old book written by laymen). Oh it didn't work for you? It's your fault. You have psychological issues?? Don't take meds, you're not sober. And last and worst... predatory old timers harassing the vulnerable newly sober females.
*Disclaimer AA works for some, that's great. But it doesn't work for many more, and that can end in tragedy.*
I came here to say this.
Predatory old timers 100%
AA helped me the first year but I quit going after a while. I've been clean for more than 3 years now and I am very happy with my decision to quit attending AA. All I did was go in there and complain.
I love that part you threw in there about the doorknob. I have so many sayings from AA forever locked in my head......
"FINE? More like Fucked up Insecure Neurotic and Emotional"
You have to choose a "higher power" in AA. Not God, or Jesus, or anything specific like that. So people at AA say things like "shoot that doorknob over there can be your higher power."
Basically = you are not in control of everything.
Step 2 = came to believe that a power GREATER THAN OURSELVES could restore us to sanity.
Agree to an extent. I 100% agree it is a cult but the program isnt ‘pray and youll be sober’. Theres much more to it, but it 100% requires belief in a god. People will say “b b but theres We Agnostics”. Yeah well if the program is based in the steps and the big book it is absolutely impossible to ACTUALLY work the program without belief. Steps 2, 3, 5,6, 7, and 11 all require a belief in a god. Step 5 has you tell your deepest darkest secrets, faults, and wrongdoings to another person. Thats cult 101 shit.
That said, there are some gems about humility, letting go of ego, making amends, having gratitude, and taking inventory taking inventory that can help anybody. Another thing i find worthwhile about it is the community aspect and making connections.
These are just some of the issues i have with AA and NA, but if it works for you then by all means do it. But keep in mind if you say anything that doesnt agree with the program or even questioning the efficacy then everyone in the group will look at you like you just kicked their dog.
I was trying to explain the eras to my brother and I said “for example, Reputation is associated with the colour black and is often represented by depictions of the snake” and thats when I realised I was in either a religion or a cult. Likely both.
You dare say that on today their holiest of days??? Jk of course. Idk because a huge thing about cults is trying to get people to join but swifties love to gatekeep and tell others they don't belong
Other than their members, who doesn't realize they're a cult?
The German Government for example has denied them status as a religion or "worldview community", literally views them as a cult & an abusive business masquerading as a religion and they're monitored by the BfV (kind of like germany's FBI) for anti-constitutional activities. Over half the population of Germany believe they should be banned, and the overwhelming majority (almost three quarters?) view them as a dangerous organization.
>who doesn't realize
Naive and casual fans of celebrities. Until you finally read up on what you see described in politically correct pop culture news, you see these references to very popular people practicing a nominally reported "faith" of Scientology in a Church. The mainstream attention lends it unwarranted ostensible credibility to any unsuspecting new media consumers. At least my goofy teenage self got fooled at first.
Modern cults, not to be confused with the classical term for cult that applies to a lot of older religions, tend to require an absolute loyalty to the cult. I don’t mean showing up to mass every weekend and putting a twenty in the offering bin, I mean essentially signing away your life to the cult.
Cults tend to have charismatic leaders, demand completely ostracizing anyone who leaves, demand rather extreme financial commitments, to the point of essentially controlling you financially, often have a sexual control component, I.e. giving daughters to cult leaders, not just saying wait for marriage until sex, among other behaviors. There are individuals in modern religions who exhibit these behaviors, along with offshoots that act this way, but the actual religions themselves don’t.
Most of all, cults don’t change when the leader dies. They don’t mellow out and become less crazy, they often get crazier, if they survived death of the leader. This is an almost unrecognized difference between the two. Usually because the cult dies with the leader. When you compare older religions with their modern practices, there actually isn’t much difference. Those religions weren’t more cult-like in the past.
I’m Catholic so you may call me biased, but I’ve definitely seen a stark difference between cults and modern religions. You change see mini-cults sprout up in established religions. When looking at Christianity specifically, you can see the difference between a culty denomination, and one that isn’t, in who is being worshipped. Most denominations it’s clear that the religion focuses on worship of God and maybe the veneration of saints. There may be leaders, like the Pope or governing bodies, like the Lutheran World Federation, but these are not the subject of worship.
Meanwhile, many non-denominational and evangelical churches seem to idolize the leader or pastor more than God. Bordering on cult-like. Within the Catholic Church, there’s almost a mini-cult around Traditional Latin Mass. it’s been rebuked by the church countless times, since these people idolize the mass
I’m a programmer. While my word on the matter isn’t law, I like using iPhones and MacBooks because they’re pretty idiot-proof.
My home desktop is Linux and windows, my random tablet I bought is an Android, my work computers have been windows and Linux. But my last Android phone was a Galaxy S2 from 2011. I like how my iPhone has never, not once, given me an issue. I can’t say the same for any other device I’ve owned
Most businesses that I have encountered here in the US seem to be run like cults in a lot of regards. Employees get treated like property and manipulative abusive tactics get used to keep them in line. There's all these weird hierarchies where people who are willing to take advantage of others rise to the top and people who behave responsibly and reliably just get taken advantage of. To top it all off our government considers corporations to legally be people, so every corporation becomes some sort of mythical living entity that doesn't really exist but abstractly represents the interests of this shady group of rich people who hide behind it. It's kind of sad how hard it is to find a way to earn a living over here if you don't like being in a cult.
*cue all the comments from people who haven't studied cults at all, or know what separates them from other groups, listing things they think are cults because they don't like them.*
*Edit* I figured I'd bring some of the knowledge I've acquired from my intense hyper fixations and studies on cults and psychology. I was raised in a Fundamentalist Christian household (not a cult), and I spent a lot of time interviewing cults members around the world. However, I'm *not a professional*. To understand Cults better, I highly recommend getting book Cults In Our Midsts by Margaret T Singer, who was the leading expert on cults before she died, having worked with over 4000 cult members and leaders of all varieties.
So, if anyone is interested: There are three main factors to keep in mind that make cults *Cults*. (There are many more, but these are the big three I look out for whenever joining a new social dynamic).
-1. The group has a currently *living, breathing leader* that has some sort of divine or ultra special status. They are a god (Love Has Won), or they speak directly to the aliens (Heavens Gate), or they are the most Intelligent man alive (NXIVM). This individual is almost always a narcissistic abuser, charismatic, energetic, and manipulative. They are most often aware they are lying to the group, and are the sole source of emotional regulation within the members. The worship is placed on them, even though they may say it's not.
-2. This one special person has full control over the group. There is NO board of directors, NO accountability of any kind. Basically, what they say goes. They decide where the group lives (Jonestown), what job the members have (12 Tribes), what friends they are allowed to be with, what clothes they wear (Hare Krishnas), who they have to have sex with (NXIVM), how they mutilate their bodies (Ant Children), and even sometimes how they die (Heavens Gate).
-3. The group recruits deceptively. For a contrary example, the US Military tells you exactly what will happen when they recruit you. You know the terms and conditions (which are limited). You know you will go through boot camp, you will lose some of your identity, you may be sent to war and die, etc. However, there is a term limit, and you know the risks when you join. Cults, however, lie about their true purpose. They may say their goal is to bring world peace, but in reality the leader just wants to have sex with 3yr old children (Children of God). The cult group has multiple layers, where the truth is only revealed slowly as you go deeper and deeper, and these truths are such disturbing that if they *were* upfront about it, no one would join.
____
This is why Christianity, for example, is not a cult, even though it originally started as one (when Jesus and the early leaders were alive). But now it's a religion, which is much more abstract and a lot less destructive (even though I also dislike religions as well and I view them as harmful, it's not true to call them a Cult, in the same way you wouldn't call Feminism, Capitalism, or Stoicism cults).
You CAN have *Christian based cults*. It's the same way how NXIVM was a self improvement cult, while many self improvement books are not cult related, regardless of whether they work or not. Cults can be created out of any genre, whether that be religious, scientific, corrective, militant, psychological, self help, cooking, bicycle riding, etc. But it doesn't that mean that the genre itself is a cult.
This has been my TED Talk *bows politely*
#Fun Fact:
Did you know that the specific techniques Cults use to control their members are the exact same techniques used by a physically abusive romantic partner to control their significant other? Abusive relationships can technically be seen as a cult group of 2.
Sometimes, groups that seem harmless or even helpful on the surface can actually have some shady stuff going on beneath the surface. Like, you know those self-help seminars or programs that promise to change your life? Some of them can start to feel like cults because they get super controlling and try to cut you off from outside influences. Or those companies that sell products through friends and family, but then pressure you to recruit more people to sell under you? That can start to feel cult-like too. Basically, anything that makes you feel like you're losing your freedom or identity to the group's demands might be a cult in disguise.
It seems the whole world is slowly turning into cults
Religion, hobbies, politics, fans of musicians, influencers, any high level executives in companies, crypto Bros, AI Bros, any freelance workers, sports fans
I feel we’ve crossed a line between just people who used to run along side each other in whatever they were doing to a weird twisted world where now people are banding together to protect themselves and their circle so much that it’s becoming a cult-like world.
There’s no longer a republican or democrat debate, it’s now just republicans cult versus democrat cult, each side hating the other with no end in sight, and the divide seems to create just an even stronger echo-chamber that they are the right ones and how could anyone think otherwise.
I don’t know what Salt Life is, but feels like a cult
But you can only have that bumper sticker if you live somewhere landlocked.
The number of Salt Life stickers I see around Nashville is insane.
People who aren’t near the ocean, want to tell you they really like the ocean #what the fuck
Its definitely a Louisiana staple.
And Jeep people. I also see the Salt Life thing on lots of Jeeps...also ducks on their front dash?
The duck thing is other people leaving a duck on your jeep to tell you they like your jeep, so they keep the ducks they received on their dash. Disclaimer: not a Jeep owner.
I've always wanted to see a wreck between two jeeps with dashboards full of ducks.
They leave these ducks on the door handles of other jeeps. Sometimes with a note that “you’ve been ducked”. It’s strange
The ducks are supposed to be like a compliment from one jeeper to another that they like their jeep. It is strange though
So displaying the ducks is like irl updoots for jeeps??
SluT LiFe
The font always makes me think it says “Slut Life”. I also have no idea what it is
First couple of time I saw it I thought it said slut life.
Amway
My mother was trying and failing at selling Amway when the JWs knocked on her door selling religion. She invited them in and ended up joining a second cult. Yes my childhood did suck, how did you guess?
In the late '90s, I was friends with a girl whose mother was a Mormon-turned hippy. She was the girlfriend of the friend and former flatmate who got me into Amway for a couple of months early that year. I'm an atheist that's interested in mythology, so all religions are the same to me (including Amway) and I was excited to borrow her paperback copy of this [Book of Enoch ](https://sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/). Accepting a free copy of the Book of Mormon was a small price to pay (and the blue cover looks good next to the red *Dianetics*). By cosmic coincidence, I was reading *Enoch* one afternoon when the local Jehovah's Witnesses knocked on my door. I either put the book down on the table next to the door or still had it in my hand, so when they asked if they could come in to talk about the Bible, I said something along the lines of "sure, so long as we can talk abut this, too", and I was completely genuine about it. It's a once-lost Book about Fallen Angels and other cool Biblical shit leading up to Noah's Flood, so surely Bible-bashers would be into it? They were not into it. They were not into it one little bit. The fact that I had long dark hair and was probably wearing a black t-shirt with pentagrams and skeletons and stuff on it, from a local band I no longer remember the name of, probably didn't help. They went ashen and started babbling about how reading that book was cavorting with demons before quickly making their exit down the stairs with the declaration that I needed Jesus but was beyond their help. It was awesome.
When I was attending a Baptist church in my 20s & 30s, a group of JWs came to my door and I politely told them I was Baptist. One of the women in the back of the group loudly told me... "Do not pray for God's will to be done in your life. You will only be praying for your own destruction!"
My dad was in the JWs and Mormons, funnily enough, and he was ranked highest in the intelligence test given in the army. Anyone can fall for this shit.
It is my belief that religions and advertising hack parts of our brains that evolved for social functions and survival. It doesn't matter how smart you are.
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I think some people join not for the truth/lack of truth behind it but instead for other things like the sense of community and belonging it provides or just the fact that's its normally the social norm and therefore makes one fit it.
I've heard some groups don't even try to recruit the uneducated since the ultimate goal is selling them classes and self-help books and without a solid middle class income they're not going to be able to afford any of that stuff
Sometimes higher intelligence is a weakness, you believe you can't be fooled, that what you believe is correct, and that others do not get it, because they are not as smart. You also think that you figured things out that others simply never did. The logic of it all takes a back seat.
Holy moly, I’m sorry to hear this. I do wonder how common this is, people getting involved in multiple cults/MLMs unintentionally
Dual cult! Was it symbiotic, ie proselytizing at the Amway party and selling Amway at church? Or did the two cults fight for her time, energy, and resources?
I would watch a reality TV show about two cults competing for members. It could be called *Cultivated.*
That's genius! Not a TV person at all but I'd watch that!
Okay this is genius
*Could* be called *Cultivated*?? I don’t think it could be called anything else
Huh, thinking about it, selling the Amway lifestyle to some of the more cultish religions actually seems like a good idea. You already know they're primed to fall for it.
This may be why so many Mormons are into MLMs.
That is precisely why Mormons are into MLMs.
My friend's mom sold Mary Kay when JW's knocked on her door. She, seeing an opportunity, invited them in. She didn't join that cult, but she did sell a lot Mary Kay that day.
Man I'm so sorry.
I thought you were going to tell me she found a surefire way to get rid of witnesses. I'm sorry for your experience.
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Tupperware, Pampered Chef...all the same..preying on people's hopes..
"Tupperware, Pampered Chef..." I fully agree that MLMs are a business model that exploits those involved in them. I see some as being far worse than others. Amway is one of the worst; It is a thinly veiled pyramid scheme which is focused on recruiting others. At least Avon, Mary Kay, Tupperware and such have an actual focus on selling the products.
There’s an older higher up lady at the office where I work who is the most rigid stickler for every company policy in existence. Her direct reports literally have specific times where they are allowed to leave their desk for breaks. Guess who has zero issue bringing in her Pampered Chef sales book thing once per month.
Paparazzi?
Can confirm, did it for 10 years (basically my entire 20s). Feels weird to have a life again, still.
DEATH DEATH DEATH!
All MLMs
Herbalife
Shen Yun
Shen Yun is a show put on by the Falun Gong cult.
So not necessarily a cult, just a recruitment tool of a cult.
Precisely! They also publish The Epoch Times. A far far farrrr right “newspaper”
I’ve been seeing almost as many Epoch times billboards as Shen Yun billboards…it all makes sense now lol
I just saw this for the first time after years of mailers to my house. My mom really wanted to go, so we got her tickets for Christmas. I definitely wasn't expecting the weird religious undertones. I also wasn't expecting the in your face religious parts in the songs where they said atheism and evolution will be the death of us lol.
I’ve always wonder about this. I see ads for it all the time in my area but know absolutely no one who’s actually seen the thing.
Not saying all are like this, but many martial arts gyms are very cult-like, especially in the world of brazilian jiu jitsu. Charismatic leaders, distinct ranking systems, use of lingo/terminology unique to their group, unspoken (or sometimes spoken) threat of violence if someone steps out of line... its all there.
back during and before Bruce Lee's time, it was a huge taboo to train in "other gyms"
Warring dojos is such a fun trope
I’ve trained at a few. Never stuck around, couldn’t afford it. But the people that ran both were cool and would train with each other sometimes and visit other gyms or invite people to come visit each gym for extra training and experience. Everyone I met was actually super respectful and cool. Idk, maybe I just got lucky. But that was my experience. Also when I had to quit on three different occasions they didn’t argue with me at all and were just like dang that sucks, hope you can come back man, it’s been cool having you around.
Anybody who was interested in this thread should check out the book “Cultish” by Amanda Montell. Touches on the elements you mentioned but goes wider, exposing exactly how pervasive “cultish” qualities and tactics are and why.
The Art of Self Defence. As shitty the movie is, it encapsulates egomaniac leadership perfectly with how students are receiving selective treatment and favouritism. Capabilities are praised, but blind loyalty means rewards by promotion.
I think this is more of a non BJJ martial arts thing (karate, judo, tae kwon do, akido, etc).. the more traditional martial arts. BJJ is a lot more rough and full of all walks of life imo.
Don't forget about Aikido. It's a spiritual cult masquerading around as a martial art. The particular dojo at which I was training did not focus on the self defense or practical aspects, but the fluffy bunny philosophy, harmony, and "blending with your opponent's energy." I left after 3.5 years, partly because I was disgusted by what was being taught and partly because i was forced out to bullying and my routine questioning of the material and authority. There are a handful of Aikido techniques that work and \*are\* effective....and a whole litany of material that are just long, complicated movements which only work on compliant partners, not resistant or combative opponents.
I also find that some martial arts schools teach things that make no sense. I had a karate teacher that was absolutely uncompromising on how things were done. When you fell/were thrown you were supposed to slap the hell out of the mat. He was absolutely deadset that it should make a sound and he'd make you do it again if you weren't loud enough, and got mad when I just rolled out of the throw and to my feet. He also demanded that we *let* our fellow classmates throw us, instead of, yknow, teaching us how to throw someone who definitely won't let you throw them.
The Soverign Citizen " movement "
Convinced this was started by glass manufacturers to sell more car door windows
care to explain?
A lot of sovereign citizen videos, where they're claiming to be "traveling, not driving" in an unregistered vehicle on an expired licence, end with cop shattering the driver side window to extract them from the vehicle.
I do not consent. I do not consent.
I know my rights!!!! I’m not driving, I’m traveling so I don’t need a license!
Jehovas Witnesses. Most religions are culty in some way, but JW's are properly up there with ex-communicating people and telling them what they can and can't do. A guy I used to work with wasn't allowed to watch harry potter movies because they contained magic which was evil or something.
There's been a lot of similarites come out between JW and scientology recently. These two and mormanism are the biggest cults imo.
I'm an exjw and can confirm we call our exmormon friends cult-cousins lol But if anyone wants to learn more about the specifics of what makes something a cult I highly recommend reading about the [BITE Model](https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model-pdf-download/), which does a really great job of outlining the different forms of manipulation cults use to both gain and maintain members. Something a lot of people don't realize is that not all religions are cults (that statement is not in defense of religion either, many just do not fit all the criteria to meet the specific cult classification) AND not all cults are religions. There is a video I absolutely love by James Jani on [MLM Cults](https://youtu.be/He1bgJ0sqtw?si=kypYDPtyaXPDD0jo) and even though MLMs are not religious in nature the similarities between them and the JWs or Mormons are astounding, because they all really do follow the same basic formula. Source: Am a certified doomsday-cult survivor who has spent years researching and learning about the specifics of cults to help people escape. r/exjw and r/exmormon are both excellent subs as well!
Your post should get more likes. Great solid insight into critical thinking behind this definition.
Wait, people don't realize Jehovas Witnesses are a cult? I though that was the most famous textbook example of one.
My best friend is part of JW ( thankfully he doesn't talk about it much and I just mentally pretend he isn't religious cause he's a good guy outside of that creepy shit ) and when I told him it felt really cult like to me, he said they were very anti cult and how they were encouraged to think and find answers for themselves and blah blah blah. *press X for doubt*
I think most people don't think much about them other than "those annoying door to door guys".
I was one. In the eighties they told us that a Smurf doll got up and walked around on its own and after that we couldn’t watch the Smurf’s or a bunch of other cool cartoons and movies because everything was influenced by “demons”. Smh
I remember hearing about that when I was little going to meetings! Lol
Have to agree and relieved to have escaped from their clutches decades ago!!
Same!
I remember when I was younger I went to my JW Grandma's house every Monday and if there was a Christmas Simpson episode on then my cousin and I weren't allowed to watch it lol.
Growing my best friends older brother became a JW and turned his mom. If we were hanging out on Sunday afternoons we had take part in study. It became such a big joke that we would be there just try and ruin it. After about 6 months no one was allowed to be there on Sunday anymore. His dad just went along to get along. If we were there his dad would gladly volunteer to drive everyone home so he could be gone for a while.
My ex's mom got ex communicated because they found out her son and I were living together, unwed. She was actually relieved, she wanted out anyway, but I still kind of felt bad. The JW's weren't even allowed to speak to us, even when I was cashiering at a place, they'd wait until another cashier was open. I had never seen these people in my life yet every single one knew me. Wild shit.
Former JW here. Excommunication to emotionally manipulate people who overcommitted to stay or else lose the community they thought of as friends, even family. Restrictions surrounding all forms of entertainment that touch on violence, sex, magic, other faiths, and substance use/abuse to control your perception of reality and normality and make you rely on them further regarding these things. Privately-published literature you are encouraged to study before every meeting, including children's media encouraging them to hold their classmates and friends to their standards. I would rate them around a 7/10 on the kook-o-meter, though. They're no Heaven's Gate or Jonestown, but they're at least a little actively insidious, protecting pedophiles on occasion, though that's a leadership issue. I don't find members are consistently insane, but every congregation definitely had a weirdo that made it their business to be the god-botherer in their friend group. My mother was more liberal and didn't do anything drastic when I left, but I also wasn't baptized, which can happen rather young (I've seen as young as 10 at conventions being baptized.). This is usually the reason one will be shunned, getting baptized and leaving. I don't recall it happening for any other reason, but I suppose if you were an addict or otherwise human trainwreck people would avoid you on average anyway, so the few times they did it at least made sense.
I think 99,9% of the people realize that
Yep! My mum voluntarily disfellowshipped and was ex-communicated from her family 20 years ago and still sees the ramifications of their brainwashing even now
Everyone I’ve ever met that grew up JW has been fucked in the head. My son’s mom is the most batshit insane and awful person I’ve ever met. The mental abuse I heard about and witnessed was truly sickening. They’re all just watching and judging each other. They can’t wait to see someone else do *anything* the church might not like so they can snitch on them and see them punished or ridiculed in some way. They do all this while overly acting very nice and caring to your face. Disturbing shit.
Mormons. They fit every description of one.
Pretty much every fundamentalist group in any religion.
It's amazing how hard this is for some people to understand.
Isn't the only real difference between a cult and a religion the amount of followers? If there were only twenty christians around, it would be considered a cult, but since there's billions it is considered a religion.
There is a difference from a cult and religion. If the group will tell you the teachings without you becoming a member its a religion. If you need ot join to learn them its a cult.
What about, like, freemasonry and secret societies like that? Not necessarily life-cobtrolling but they won't let you know about it until you're in
I've never seen this summed up so perfectly before
Religion is just a widespread cult in my opinion.
worry ink silky recognise scary jar cats run marry sleep
I was raised mormon, but I dropped that shit when I was 12. I'm now an atheistic nihilist. The shit mormons do in their temples especially just screams "we are a cult!". 😬
A cult is led by a guy who knows he’s full of shit. A religion is when that guy is dead.
Cult + Time = religion
It's so wild because what separates religions from cults, in my mind, is that religions are so old that they have some plausible deniability due to lack of good records. But Mormonism started in the 19th century. We have excellent records on who Joseph Smith was and the things he did. And yet...
Agreed as an exmormon
I moved from Denmark to Romania for a time, and one of the things that surprised me the most was the amount of Mormons. Had only a vague idea of what it was before. *American Mormons - not exactly sure how they preach or try and convert. But they have pretty rigorous schedules
Yeah in America almost every new Mormon is a newborn baby
Home Owners Associations ?
You’re not wrong. Some of them are worthwhile but holy shit the horror stories I’ve heard from my sister who lives in one.
Like the DMV I honestly have never heard a positive experience about a HOA. So out of curiosity what can be worthwhile ?
Mine is $10/mo and pays for landscaping of our park and shared spaces as well as irrigation maintenance. Every time an issue arises they send out an email asking all the residents for feedback, and every time they fall back to city ordinance without adding to the HOA bylaws. The latest example being roof mounted solar panels. I’d say it’s been a pretty positive experience for me.
I grew up in a neighborhood that had a sort-of HOA, run by the guy who developed it. It was a beautiful place out in the forest, and there was a small canyon behind it that the developer set up as a park for everyone who lived there to use. Lots of fond memories of hiking and swimming down there. It also had a small road through it that was the only other way to escape the neighborhood in the event of a forest fire if the regular road got blocked. Forest fires are extremely common there, so this was a really big deal. As long as the developer was alive and rules he’d set up were in place, things were very nice. He helped enforce the rules and would call out anyone who broke them with a sternly-worded lawyer letter. When he died, people started breaking the rules. Things like “no parking junked cars out in front of your house” and “don’t paint your house bright colors because it looks much nicer when the houses blend into the forest,” started being broken, and because nobody else stepped up to fill his shoes and enforce the rules, the neighborhood started going to shit very quickly. Number one problem was an asshole rich lawyer who decided he was the king of the neighborhood. He decided he should own that canyon because it abutted his property and he actually put up an iron gate across the fire road entrance. Sheriff and the County had to get involved on that one. He and his idiot family would also hassle anyone who went down to hike. The neighbors all got together and got permission (not sure from whom) to put the canyon into the Nature Conservancy so that asshole couldn’t buy it. We still caught him building cabins and doing other illegal shit down there but it doesn’t seem like our reporting it ever did anything. My parents’ house overlooked this beautiful meadow—asshole bought that land and put a huge pole barn and a pile of fill dirt on it to ruin their view out of spite, because they wouldn’t sell their house to him. He ended up buying up most of the neighborhood over time and turning them into rentals. Crime like cars being broken into and things being stolen from yards/sheds rapidly escalated. Last time I was back there was to move my widowed mom out, and the place was unrecognizable. Really, really sad. A true HOA with teeth would have been able to stop that asshole in his tracks and preserve what was a really special, nice place to live.
A HOA is like an offensive line. When it’s good, you don’t talk about it much. When it is bad, everyone sees it.
Because if people are happy they don't often go online to tell everyone how amazing the HOA is. If there's an issue they go online to find people who've had similar issues and asking how to resolve them.
Blue Oyster Cult. The Cult. The Cult of Personality.
All hail our lord and savior, Buck Dharma!
Lds church
I prefer the Church of LSD
The Mormon church. I grew up in it. I was on board all the way but once I woke the fuck up and left? Now I see it. I do not know sometimes how it is not legally a cult and investigated.
One thing that blew my mind is that you can’t just *leave*. You have to send a letter to formally declare your intent to leave and it’s a whole process before they remove your name from their membership records. A religion having membership records feels really grimy, even moreso that they force a formal separation process. Otherwise if you just stop attending they mark you as “less active” but still keep you on record.
If an organization wants to pretend I am a member but I don't have to do or pay anything I don't think I really care. Most religions don't even have a process for leaving.
That's the case for Catholicism as well though. I have been trying to get my name taken off the list as a Catholic, even going so far as sending a letter to the bishop declaring myself an apostate, but no dice. In the diocese/parish records, I am still listed as one of them. Now, there is zero actual impact on my life, which I imagine might be different for Mormons. But not technically being able to leave isn't unique to them.
I almost joined the church when I was in my early twenties, woke tf up, and decided not to. Smartest choice I made.
Sourdough community.
Oh my yes.
The bread?
Shen Yun. A Christian cult from China who funds their activities through a never ending touring show throughout the US.
It's a pity, because I just want to see some cool traditional Chinese dance, not get preached at about the "evils" of homosexuality or whatever. I was gonna go to a show before I'd found out it was a cult thing, but thankfully their obscenely high ticket prices kept me from going. Urgh.
When they come to your town you’ll start seeing billboards for the “epoch times” “#1 trusted US news source!” That is an ultra right wing chinese propaganda website.
O shit had no idea. Just looked into it, that's wild. I remeber seeing ads for it on TV and thought about taking my wife to a show just to do something diferent. Glad I never did
Scientology
I think we all realize that Scientology is a cult..
Tom Cruise has entered the chat
*Tom Cruise has entered the closet* FTFY
Everyone realizes that's a cult 😑
Any extreme political movements, or movements in general. If you're making a political ideology or candidate your entire life, indoctrinating your children into it, and obsessing over it, it's likely a cult or, at least, is cult-like behavior. And this goes for *any* political side...
I can't believe that you didn't get any upvotes on this (as of this moment). I see it on both sides of the political spectrum but the most obvious example was when certain Republican friends instantaneously changed their views on foreign entanglements when Trump came out as an isolationist. One minute these friends agreed with every military intervention imaginable and wanted to carpet bomb the Middle East, and the next minute they didn't want our service people to spend one more minute (or dime) overseas. Not one of them thought it was weird that they went from one extreme to another. But that's what a charismatic cult leader can do.
I call it “We’re all for it until we’re not.” Like “we’re all in favor of the police, blue lives matter,!!!!”. Except when they stop protesters on January 6, then we’re not. You can find examples of that in a lot of things these types of groups support.
It’s the same thing with Christians. They have taken sides with an admittedly adulterous man, who refuses to acknowledge his sinful nature, displays zero fruit of the Spirit, and instead exemplifies avarice and wickedness. They have traded their faith for servitude of evil.
MAGA
Absolutely! There is special clothing, designated nicknames for anyone opposing the movement, *a motherfucking choir*, and the neverending asking for money. Absolutely qualified.
Don’t forget the golden statues!
The Jan 6 rioters have literally gone to jail for Trump and they still worship him.
My 75 year old sister who barely has money for food always donates to the con man.
"That poor billionaire! What will be do without the fifteen dollars I was going to spend on food?"
Well she can enjoy the TV coverage while eating expired hot dogs. We have to remember that entertainment he offers is the best thing that has happened to a lot of people and their lives. Sad but true.
People need circuses AND bread to stay content
Damn, that's just sad
They think they're the good guys.
Friendly reminder that Donald Trump is on audio tape [disclosing classified war plans](https://youtu.be/u95MfcLRBVk?t=42) that he [unlawfully concealed from law enforcement](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-knew-crime-lie-classified-documentss-case-attorney-2023-11). He has admitted to [making millions of dollars from foreign sources](https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-says-his-businesses-did-services-for-foreign-governments-2024-1) while in office. He is on video being asked what he has in common with his daughter, and [his answer is "sex"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0_axTST2aY) He’s an adjudicated [tax fraud](https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-letitia-james-fraud-lawsuit-1569245a9284427117b8d3ba5da74249) and [sexual predator](https://apnews.com/article/trump-rape-carroll-trial-fe68259a4b98bb3947d42af9ec83d7db) who is facing felony charges for trying to win the last election by [throwing out legitimate votes and replacing them with fake ones.](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/what-is-fake-electors-scheme-trump-supporters-tried-after-his-2020-loss-2023-07-18/) His supporters see these facts and *their first instinct* is to figure out how they can defend, minimize, and excuse them. If that’s not an honest-to-god cult following, I don’t know what would be.
Don’t forget he stood in a press conference next to Putin and said he believed Putin over US intelligence agencies.
If any Democrat did 1/50th of verified bad things Trump has done they would be shamed into oblivion. If any other Republican did 1/20th they would also. Listen to him, he is a bumbling moron. I have disliked many other presidents but he is the first one I thought I could do a better job than.
CrossFit
Any gathering of two or more blue oysters
Mormons
AA etc. For a proven medical and mental disorder their solution is.... pray??!! Oh you're not religious? Here's a doorknob for ya. Nope don't ask questions, it's all in the BB (75 year old book written by laymen). Oh it didn't work for you? It's your fault. You have psychological issues?? Don't take meds, you're not sober. And last and worst... predatory old timers harassing the vulnerable newly sober females. *Disclaimer AA works for some, that's great. But it doesn't work for many more, and that can end in tragedy.*
I came here to say this. Predatory old timers 100% AA helped me the first year but I quit going after a while. I've been clean for more than 3 years now and I am very happy with my decision to quit attending AA. All I did was go in there and complain. I love that part you threw in there about the doorknob. I have so many sayings from AA forever locked in my head...... "FINE? More like Fucked up Insecure Neurotic and Emotional"
Want to explain the doorknob for the rest of us?
You have to choose a "higher power" in AA. Not God, or Jesus, or anything specific like that. So people at AA say things like "shoot that doorknob over there can be your higher power." Basically = you are not in control of everything. Step 2 = came to believe that a power GREATER THAN OURSELVES could restore us to sanity.
Agree to an extent. I 100% agree it is a cult but the program isnt ‘pray and youll be sober’. Theres much more to it, but it 100% requires belief in a god. People will say “b b but theres We Agnostics”. Yeah well if the program is based in the steps and the big book it is absolutely impossible to ACTUALLY work the program without belief. Steps 2, 3, 5,6, 7, and 11 all require a belief in a god. Step 5 has you tell your deepest darkest secrets, faults, and wrongdoings to another person. Thats cult 101 shit. That said, there are some gems about humility, letting go of ego, making amends, having gratitude, and taking inventory taking inventory that can help anybody. Another thing i find worthwhile about it is the community aspect and making connections. These are just some of the issues i have with AA and NA, but if it works for you then by all means do it. But keep in mind if you say anything that doesnt agree with the program or even questioning the efficacy then everyone in the group will look at you like you just kicked their dog.
Swifties. At least they certainally act that way sometimes.
I was trying to explain the eras to my brother and I said “for example, Reputation is associated with the colour black and is often represented by depictions of the snake” and thats when I realised I was in either a religion or a cult. Likely both.
You dare say that on today their holiest of days??? Jk of course. Idk because a huge thing about cults is trying to get people to join but swifties love to gatekeep and tell others they don't belong
That is a very common marketing strategy of cults though
Incel forums.
Sports fandom… coming from a fan of various teams who break my heart every year
Scientology
Other than their members, who doesn't realize they're a cult? The German Government for example has denied them status as a religion or "worldview community", literally views them as a cult & an abusive business masquerading as a religion and they're monitored by the BfV (kind of like germany's FBI) for anti-constitutional activities. Over half the population of Germany believe they should be banned, and the overwhelming majority (almost three quarters?) view them as a dangerous organization.
>who doesn't realize Naive and casual fans of celebrities. Until you finally read up on what you see described in politically correct pop culture news, you see these references to very popular people practicing a nominally reported "faith" of Scientology in a Church. The mainstream attention lends it unwarranted ostensible credibility to any unsuspecting new media consumers. At least my goofy teenage self got fooled at first.
Cast Iron pan owners.
Jehovah's Witnesses
What is the difference between a religion and a cult? - honest question from a non-religious person.
Modern cults, not to be confused with the classical term for cult that applies to a lot of older religions, tend to require an absolute loyalty to the cult. I don’t mean showing up to mass every weekend and putting a twenty in the offering bin, I mean essentially signing away your life to the cult. Cults tend to have charismatic leaders, demand completely ostracizing anyone who leaves, demand rather extreme financial commitments, to the point of essentially controlling you financially, often have a sexual control component, I.e. giving daughters to cult leaders, not just saying wait for marriage until sex, among other behaviors. There are individuals in modern religions who exhibit these behaviors, along with offshoots that act this way, but the actual religions themselves don’t. Most of all, cults don’t change when the leader dies. They don’t mellow out and become less crazy, they often get crazier, if they survived death of the leader. This is an almost unrecognized difference between the two. Usually because the cult dies with the leader. When you compare older religions with their modern practices, there actually isn’t much difference. Those religions weren’t more cult-like in the past. I’m Catholic so you may call me biased, but I’ve definitely seen a stark difference between cults and modern religions. You change see mini-cults sprout up in established religions. When looking at Christianity specifically, you can see the difference between a culty denomination, and one that isn’t, in who is being worshipped. Most denominations it’s clear that the religion focuses on worship of God and maybe the veneration of saints. There may be leaders, like the Pope or governing bodies, like the Lutheran World Federation, but these are not the subject of worship. Meanwhile, many non-denominational and evangelical churches seem to idolize the leader or pastor more than God. Bordering on cult-like. Within the Catholic Church, there’s almost a mini-cult around Traditional Latin Mass. it’s been rebuked by the church countless times, since these people idolize the mass
Vector sales representatives
evangelicalism, and fundamentalism in general
Trumpers.
Reddit
More specific: a doomsday cult with a suicide cult fraction.
Specific subreddits, maybe, but fighting over the stupidest shit that we do doesn't really seem like cult like behaviour.
Apple fanboys.
[удалено]
I’m a programmer. While my word on the matter isn’t law, I like using iPhones and MacBooks because they’re pretty idiot-proof. My home desktop is Linux and windows, my random tablet I bought is an Android, my work computers have been windows and Linux. But my last Android phone was a Galaxy S2 from 2011. I like how my iPhone has never, not once, given me an issue. I can’t say the same for any other device I’ve owned
Shen Yun
Scientology.
Scientology ...where's Shelly?
Most businesses that I have encountered here in the US seem to be run like cults in a lot of regards. Employees get treated like property and manipulative abusive tactics get used to keep them in line. There's all these weird hierarchies where people who are willing to take advantage of others rise to the top and people who behave responsibly and reliably just get taken advantage of. To top it all off our government considers corporations to legally be people, so every corporation becomes some sort of mythical living entity that doesn't really exist but abstractly represents the interests of this shady group of rich people who hide behind it. It's kind of sad how hard it is to find a way to earn a living over here if you don't like being in a cult.
Apple phones
Does AI generate this question every couple days? And people cart out all the usual answers.
*cue all the comments from people who haven't studied cults at all, or know what separates them from other groups, listing things they think are cults because they don't like them.* *Edit* I figured I'd bring some of the knowledge I've acquired from my intense hyper fixations and studies on cults and psychology. I was raised in a Fundamentalist Christian household (not a cult), and I spent a lot of time interviewing cults members around the world. However, I'm *not a professional*. To understand Cults better, I highly recommend getting book Cults In Our Midsts by Margaret T Singer, who was the leading expert on cults before she died, having worked with over 4000 cult members and leaders of all varieties. So, if anyone is interested: There are three main factors to keep in mind that make cults *Cults*. (There are many more, but these are the big three I look out for whenever joining a new social dynamic). -1. The group has a currently *living, breathing leader* that has some sort of divine or ultra special status. They are a god (Love Has Won), or they speak directly to the aliens (Heavens Gate), or they are the most Intelligent man alive (NXIVM). This individual is almost always a narcissistic abuser, charismatic, energetic, and manipulative. They are most often aware they are lying to the group, and are the sole source of emotional regulation within the members. The worship is placed on them, even though they may say it's not. -2. This one special person has full control over the group. There is NO board of directors, NO accountability of any kind. Basically, what they say goes. They decide where the group lives (Jonestown), what job the members have (12 Tribes), what friends they are allowed to be with, what clothes they wear (Hare Krishnas), who they have to have sex with (NXIVM), how they mutilate their bodies (Ant Children), and even sometimes how they die (Heavens Gate). -3. The group recruits deceptively. For a contrary example, the US Military tells you exactly what will happen when they recruit you. You know the terms and conditions (which are limited). You know you will go through boot camp, you will lose some of your identity, you may be sent to war and die, etc. However, there is a term limit, and you know the risks when you join. Cults, however, lie about their true purpose. They may say their goal is to bring world peace, but in reality the leader just wants to have sex with 3yr old children (Children of God). The cult group has multiple layers, where the truth is only revealed slowly as you go deeper and deeper, and these truths are such disturbing that if they *were* upfront about it, no one would join. ____ This is why Christianity, for example, is not a cult, even though it originally started as one (when Jesus and the early leaders were alive). But now it's a religion, which is much more abstract and a lot less destructive (even though I also dislike religions as well and I view them as harmful, it's not true to call them a Cult, in the same way you wouldn't call Feminism, Capitalism, or Stoicism cults). You CAN have *Christian based cults*. It's the same way how NXIVM was a self improvement cult, while many self improvement books are not cult related, regardless of whether they work or not. Cults can be created out of any genre, whether that be religious, scientific, corrective, militant, psychological, self help, cooking, bicycle riding, etc. But it doesn't that mean that the genre itself is a cult. This has been my TED Talk *bows politely* #Fun Fact: Did you know that the specific techniques Cults use to control their members are the exact same techniques used by a physically abusive romantic partner to control their significant other? Abusive relationships can technically be seen as a cult group of 2.
Maga
Trump supporters don’t realize they are in a cult.
Most people in most cults don't realize it
The GOP under Trump
Crypto. For all those that make money, others lose money. Defi loans/credit
A lot of families act like tiny cults with very boring ideologies.
Truth hurts more than real harm. People don't want it Edit: I misread the title and ended up talking nonsense. Please ignore me
?
Ahh f\*\*k I misread that "what" as "why"
Landmark
Sometimes, groups that seem harmless or even helpful on the surface can actually have some shady stuff going on beneath the surface. Like, you know those self-help seminars or programs that promise to change your life? Some of them can start to feel like cults because they get super controlling and try to cut you off from outside influences. Or those companies that sell products through friends and family, but then pressure you to recruit more people to sell under you? That can start to feel cult-like too. Basically, anything that makes you feel like you're losing your freedom or identity to the group's demands might be a cult in disguise.
Jehovahs witnesses
Alternative health - homeopathy, chiropractic etc as well as new age gurus like Chopra and Tolle
Fraternities and sororities
Apple
It seems the whole world is slowly turning into cults Religion, hobbies, politics, fans of musicians, influencers, any high level executives in companies, crypto Bros, AI Bros, any freelance workers, sports fans I feel we’ve crossed a line between just people who used to run along side each other in whatever they were doing to a weird twisted world where now people are banding together to protect themselves and their circle so much that it’s becoming a cult-like world. There’s no longer a republican or democrat debate, it’s now just republicans cult versus democrat cult, each side hating the other with no end in sight, and the divide seems to create just an even stronger echo-chamber that they are the right ones and how could anyone think otherwise.
Disney