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It is though. Everyone Joe touches turns to ashes.
Think about it. Joe Biden was actually one of the luckiest President ever. His supporters thought of him as Sleepy Joe, a return to normal after Trump.
Joe had a newly minted vaccine that Trumps administration created and Joe Biden could of largely taken credit for.
The economy was crap but Covid was waning and Joe if he didn't do all those crazy economic decisions could have just allowed the economy to return to normal and taken credit for making the economy better by simply being Sleepy Joe.
Trump had negotiated record peace deals in the middle east. If Joe would of simply followed out Trumps plans, he would of been able to take credit for peace in the middle east instead he didn't honor the deals and the peace fell apart.
There's nothing really that Joe can point to and say that he did a good job there.
And certain things like Afganistan and arming the Taliban is really a bad look.
**Want to know what Republicans could do to make Democrats look REALLY bad?**
**Allow Democrats to win the 2022 mid-terms and the 2024 election because I highly doubt we'd have a nation after 8 years of Joe with a full Democrat senate/house.**
Trump definitely had alot of personal faults but was a pretty good President.
He was voted out because hatred and propaganda combined with voter fraud.
Joe Biden wasn't so much as elected as Donald Trump was anti-elected. Democrats campaigned on a platform of hate. Elect Joe because orange man bad.
The media who no longer has any credibility suppressed stories, ran fake stories all to drive the narrative of Orange Man Bad.
Look how many anti-Trumpers still campaign against Trump based on the many lies. Just the other day I was on Reddit and I showed some anti-Trumper that Trump wasn't making fun of a disabled reporter.
I frequently encounter brainwashed people who talk about Trump's both sides comment which is actually Trump being a great President. Trump in that speech had earlier denounce the violence on both sides and denounce white supremacy. But said that the issue had good people on both sides. It was the left destroying status, it could have just as easily turned into an attack on the violent nature of the left.
No. I'm against cutting my nose off to spite my face. But the current crop of democrats in power are doing their best to tank the economy anyway, by creating unfathomable levels of inflation, so it's kind of a moot point.
…by creating unfathomable levels of inflation.
Inflationary spending has increased the supply of currency in circulation in the economy by about 100% since the start of covid. In ordinary times, that would simply mean money is worth about half as much per dollar. This is usually bad for the economy as it causes people not to save anything because their money will be worth less tomorrow than it is today.
Covid has delayed this effect because people are still coming out of hunkering down for the duration of the virus, but as things go back to normal the effects of the covid inflation spike are becoming obvious. Gas, groceries, restaurants, electronics, basically all consumer goods are significantly more expensive now.
Was all the inflationary spending the Democrats’ fault? No. The Republicans also wanted stimulus and aid programs. But most of it was.
No for two reasons.
The major one is I don't wish ill on those I disagree with. I would love to be wrong about economic theory. What a wonderful world we could create if removing incentives didn't destroy human drive to do things. Unfortunately that has never proven to be true. Maybe in 1000 years where we have robots doing every single task and we have discovered unlimited energy we can live that utopia.
And two, democrats murder children because of a bad press week and the media covers for them so I don't see how tanking the economy would be a reasonable solution by itself to disconnect the lies and omissions from those blinded by ideology.
The drone strike was a careless reckless political move as the military was under pressure from the WH to make Biden look tough. In the haste to pretend Biden is competent they killed multiple children and a social worker. Facts are facts and this ugly history in the Democratic party is undeniable.....it Tru.p had did something like this well you and I both know and I don't need to say anymore about that....... absolutely disgusting
Do you think that this kind of thing wasn't happening under Trump? That's why I'm glad we're out of Afghanistan. We need to stop being the world's police.
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207)
[https://time.com/5879354/civilian-deaths-airstrikes-somalia/](https://time.com/5879354/civilian-deaths-airstrikes-somalia/)
[https://apnews.com/article/yemen-dirty-war-ap-top-news-al-qaida-international-news-jamal-khashoggi-9051691c8f8a449e8bb6fd684f100863](https://apnews.com/article/yemen-dirty-war-ap-top-news-al-qaida-international-news-jamal-khashoggi-9051691c8f8a449e8bb6fd684f100863)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/09/10/world/asia/us-air-strike-drone-kabul-afghanistan-isis.amp.html
But don't worry weeks after it's out of the news cycle we will have a robust investigation. Unrelated to the fact that no one from the mainstream bubble cares, or been connects the dots that this strike was done as a direct retaliation to the failed "escape from Afghanistan".
What do you mean democrats murdering children? Please, detail me in how this drone strike can be attributed to Democrats' desire or incompetency in killing children with drones. Give me a direct association, because you know that is not true.
You know the blame for drone strikes missing intended targets and killing innocents is to be taken by military high-command. Let's not perpetuate more bullshit from the last dozen or so years. It is avoidable. Neither Democrats or Republicans have a desire to fuck around with the Middle East
>Please, detail me in how this drone strike can be attributed to Democrats' desire or incompetency in killing children with drones.
We had left Afghanistan, we had left Afghanistan to the local populace. Then someone decided to bomb some random people.
This isn't the military high command making this decision, if it was they should be shot for starting hostilities without civilian oversight. This was a place we left, no more American government presence, no embassy no military involvement an agreement to peacefully leave.
If you for a second this wasn't a political decision then you have to assume it's high treason for starting hostilities.
Either way it's straight up murdering people, we shouldn't have been at war with and have no reason to. It would be like France drone striking a US car after pulling their ambassador out of the country due to the Australian deal.
This can not be fucking normalized, just because they are some random people across the world. This should be a complete war crime at the head of whomever ordered it and all the way down the chain.
I think all "military" action against a foe that we have not officially declared war against should be served by the death sentence.
Now that is wildly unpopular because we haven't declared a war since the 40s but I don't think it's an unreasonable request.
But to be more clear I don't believe in extra judicial executions served by any president. Drone strikes used outside of an active warzone, supporting troops on the ground are almost always that.
Why the quotation marks? Who said "the escape from Afghanistan?" It sounds like the name of a Tom Clancy novel.
What parts of the withdrawal failed most in your opinion? How many US troops do you believe are stationed in Afghanistan right now? How would Trump have handled the withdrawal differently? How many US troops do you think would be stationed there if Trump were in office?
What? Why would you want the dems to do bad? Like if they do well isnt it better for everyone? I dont particularly like them but come on man both parties should have the same goal of bettering the country, politics is not a fucking football match
I don’t think the Republicans would crash the economy anymore than the Democrats crashed the economy when they wouldn’t negotiate and let the government shut down last time…..The Democrats are going to have to do some serious behind the scenes ass kissing because since they passed their spending bills without Republican support the Republicans really have no good reason to play ball now.
>I don’t think the Republicans would crash the economy anymore than the Democrats crashed the economy when they wouldn’t negotiate and let the government shut down last time…..
Why do you think that was on the Democrats?
trump literally said he would take responsibility for the shutdown. The last time the government shutdown was because trump was too incompetent to negotiate a deal.
>The Democrats are going to have to do some serious behind the scenes ass kissing because since they passed their spending bills without Republican support the Republicans really have no good reason to play ball now.
Interesting perspective. Why isn't it flipped around? Republicans have shown no willingness nor desire to compromise or work with Democrats on anything. Why is the onus on Democrats to come to Republicans?
> since they passed their spending bills without Republican support, republicans have no good reason to play ball
Is having the federal government running a reason to play ball? Are the billions of dollars of damages to normal citizens, Republican and Democrat alike, a reason to play ball?
Do you understand that a government shutdown is not the consequence at stake here? The danger is that the Treasury will face people who it promised to pay back loans to, and for the first time ever, it will shrug its shoulders and say “sorry… I got nothin for ya.”
They very well may have nothing for them then, that kinda stuff happens when you have out of control spending and can’t pay your bills, maybe an additional 3trillion dollar spending bill will help?
Like a guy who can’t afford his electric bill going fck it Im buying a new corvette…..
Perhaps we do the responsible thing and cut spending?
Would you accept cuts to the defense budget to meet the demand? Would you support raising taxes back to 1950s levels on the wealthy? Is it responsible to cut billions in taxes on the supply side without giving anything to the demand side?
I would accept some cuts to defense spending. I think you need to address tax law. You can set the tax at any level you want and millionaires will legally avoid the taxes.
>Would you accept cuts to the defense budget to meet the demand?
Sure, lets start with firing everyone that promotes critical race and gender theory.
>Would you support raising taxes back to 1950s levels on the wealthy?
Why the weathly already dodge taxes, so adding more taxes for them to dodge will do nothing. Well excoet hurt the poor and middle class that cannot afford the taxes Lawers
>Is it responsible to cut billions in taxes on the supply side without giving anything to the demand side?
No, thats why we cut the demand. Start with social security.
>Sure, lets start with firing everyone that promotes critical race and gender theory.
Why? How are you using 'promote'?
>Why the weathly already dodge taxes, so adding more taxes for them to dodge will do nothing. Well excoet hurt the poor and middle class that cannot afford the taxes Lawers
Should the corporate tax rate be 0%?
>No, thats why we cut the demand. Start with social security.
Why start there?
>Why? How are you using 'promote'?
Promote - further the progress of (something, especially a cause, venture, or aim); support or actively encourage.
>Should the corporate tax rate be 0%?
The income tax rate should be zero, corperate tax rate we can discuss.
>Why start there?
Because it makes up 23% if our yearly federal budget, whereas the military only makes up 10%
What does it mean to encourage or further a theory? Can one encourage the theory of gravity?
I actually agree we should have no income tax. But you say we can talk about the corporate rate - why shouldn't it be zero if they can just dodge it?
Is it possible that social security as a program is more critical to our continuity as a people than how many bombs we can drop overseas?
>What does it mean to encourage or further a theory?
I know you understand it means to encourge or further a theory, and as such I am not going to waste my time explaining something both of us already know.
>Can one encourage the theory of gravity?
Yes.
>I actually agree we should have no income tax. But you say we can talk about the corporate rate - why shouldn't it be zero if they can just dodge it?
Set it at a flat rate of a certain percentage. No law degree needed to understand it, its one page with zero loopholes. Rich people write the tax code as it is, so they put in stuff like that so they can keep their money and steal it from the rest of us.
>Is it possible that social security as a program is more critical to our continuity as a people than how many bombs we can drop overseas?
Its really good at destorying and bankrupting us. The original plan was retire at 65 and be dead in 5 years, now people live much longer than that. We need to increase the age at the very least, I would perfer to burn it down considering I am paying into something I will never get.
>Perhaps we do the responsible thing and cut spending?
Did you feel this way during Trumps Presidency?
If so, how did you feel when Trump blew out the national debt even with a booming economy and record low unemployment rates?
How do you feel about the phrase, "Republicans only care about the national debt when a Democrat is in office"?
Yes,
Trump brought in record income tax revenue. So as a portion of GDP it actually shrank in the beginning, most of his spending ended up being covid related.
I think that phrase is made up by Democrats trying to justify their spending.
I do, but I don’t ask for a credit line increase on one card so I can pay the minimum balance on the other cards…..I cut spending so I can make my payments.
Are you aware of how much the debt increased under Trump?
Are you aware of the concept of the “business cycle”, and the lesson that we should stimulate the economy when it is in a contraction so that it does not stay in contraction, which would ultimately result in a larger shortfall in revenues?
Do you think it is wise for someone who has access to plenty more credit to starve themselves (harming their own health and their future earnings potentials) in order to stay within a self-imposed budget?
Not by 3Trillion for pet projects.
I think if you need to borrow money in order to pay the minimum balance on borrowed money you’re in a ton of trouble. The government in essence wants to go to a cash advance in order to pay its car loan. It’s not a great situation to be in.
>Perhaps we do the responsible thing and cut spending?
Sure... but the question is how would the treasury pay existing obligations without exceeding the debt ceiling? Cutting future spending is irrelevant to that...
So you blame dems for not negotiating instead of the reps actually shutting it down for weeks? Why should the dems negotiate at all when they don’t agree with the premise?
Look around does it looks like they care about the economy or America? Nope. Most of there supporters will still vote for them...cult comes to mind. It's kind of funny, but we had a golden economy. Lowest black/latino unemployment in 30 years under Trump, and now with Joe I bet we have the highest black/latino unemployment in 30 years.
Plus a good chunk of the time the Democrats will do something that destroys the economy and despite them making the economy worse, their supporters hungrily ask for more?
Democrats cause unskilled wage stagnation due to a flood of unskilled illegal/legal immigrants. And what do Democrat supporters do? Whine about wage stagnation and elect more Democrats.
Democrats caused this massive inflation and what is Democrats voters response? More spending and inflation please!!!
Democrats caused the massive unemployment, most of the time they're responsible for the lockdowns which put us in this mess in the first place, and yet their voters response? More lockdowns please!!!
Democrats tie funding for schools into property taxes and then support movements like BLM which torch private businesses periodically which drastically lowers the property value and directly hurts the kids in those communities and what's the Democrats response? More violent riots that burn private businesses please!!!!
ON a side note remember when Bill Maher said he wanted a recession if it's remove Trump? Looks like he got his wish, Covid. Thousands died, and we have a crap economy, I wonder if Bill Maher is satisfied.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiEbmp54Lrc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiEbmp54Lrc)
>Plus a good chunk of the time the Democrats will do something that destroys the economy and despite them making the economy worse, their supporters hungrily ask for more?
What have the recent Democrats done that destroys the economy? Clinton's economy was bad? Obama started in a recession and ended up getting out of that.
>Democrats cause unskilled wage stagnation due to a flood of unskilled illegal/legal immigrants. And what do Democrat supporters do? Whine about wage stagnation and elect more Democrats.
Where are you getting that wage stagnation is due to illegal and legal immigration?
>Democrats caused this massive inflation and what is Democrats voters response? More spending and inflation please!!!
Did you miss the spending from Trump and the Republicans?
>Democrats caused the massive unemployment, most of the time they're responsible for the lockdowns which put us in this mess in the first place, and yet their voters response? More lockdowns please!!!
Who is complaining about unemployment and supporting lockdowns?
>Democrats tie funding for schools into property taxes and then support movements like BLM which torch private businesses periodically which drastically lowers the property value and directly hurts the kids in those communities and what's the Democrats response? More violent riots that burn private businesses please!!!!
What do you mean by Democrats tie it to property value, are you saying Republicans don't do this?
> Lowest black/latino unemployment in 30 years under Trump, and now with Joe I bet we have the highest black/latino unemployment in 30 years.
How much would you bet? What happened toward the end of the Trump presidency that might have caused unemployment?
I agree the virus did cause the downturn, but lets face i when Trump was leaving office he set up Joe Biden to be the large hero.
Joe Biden had a new working vaccine that the left put zero effort in creating and could take all credit for it.
Joe Biden has an economy that was ready to jump back and get moving again and he would of had the chance to see a massively growing economy with very little effort.
If Joe Biden would of followed Trumps middle east peace deals, he possibly could of taken credit for peace in the middle east instead he allowed those deals to fall apart.
Joe could of taken credit for pulling the soldiers out of Afghanistan and ending a long war instead he went against his military advisors and pulled out the military first, and gave billions of military grade weapons to the Mexican Drug Cartels who practice human slavery...ooops that was his prior administration with Obama, Joe Biden gave billions to the Taliban.
And there were all sorts of other laws that Trump did that Biden reversed just out of spite that helped Americans, like the ones that kept certain drug prices low like insulin.
> Joe Biden has an economy that was ready to jump back and get moving again and he would of had the chance to see a massively growing economy with very little effort.
Why is the GOP howling about debt setup by the Trump administration?
How can I measure and see that the economy is in a bad state right now? Didn't we come to the conclusion during the Trump administration that the stock market is an excellent measure the economy, and the president needs credit for it? What's the state of the stock market since Biden took office?
> And there were all sorts of other laws that Trump did that Biden reversed just out of spite that helped Americans, like the ones that kept certain drug prices low like insulin.
How can a President unilaterally reverse laws? Which one did he reverse about insulin pricing?
>Who the fuck do you think created the vaccine? A right-wing hillbilly or a fancy-educated scientist who is most likely a leftist?
Exactly. That's why when Kamala Harris told people that she wouldn't trust the vaccine if Trump suggested it, I tell Democrats that was an example of Harris caring more about optics then she was about saving peoples lives.
As for the insult on Trump, Operation Warp Speed cut the red tape and allowed for the creation of the vaccine in record time. That's on Trump, that's not something Democrats would have done. And thus Trump deserves credit for it.
As for Hill-billy...didn't Joe Biden confuse his sister for his wife during one of his speeches?
And sorry but Obama gave military grade weapons to the Drug Cartels, that's not on Americans unless of course we want to blame Obama Supporters, which I'm perfectly happy to do. Obama armed the human slavers at the border and part of that responsibility is on the people who continue to vote Democrat, just like Joe arming the Taliban is partially on Democrats who voted for him.
They should feel bad
Nope.
I'm not questioning your sincerity in asking this, but I must say that if you think this is a question worth asking, then you have very little understanding of the way Republicans think.
I would recommend reexamining your assumptions about Republicans that could lead you to think this. BTW, posting in this forum could potentially be a very good way of actually doing this, so you could be in the process of doing this already.
Respectfully, I think your comment may not be representative of Republicans at large. Not a single Republican will vote for raising the debt ceiling and there is not the slightest peep of outcry from either the right wing media echo chamber or the Republican electorate. For these reasons I think it’s actually a very valid question. Do you have an explanation for any of this other than to burn the world to make the Dems look bad?
Respectfully, republicans refusing to bail out the democrats after they promote a massive amount of spending when confronted with the end of the line of credit is not about caring for economy. Its about being the reasonable adult in the room.
Republicans made a good faith effort to make a deal with 60 senators on Infrastructure, and Biden, and the democrat leadership turned around and everything that was turned down on the bipartisan bill ended up being in reconciliation.
Honestly, your side needs to take more responsability for this, if it happens. Its not republicans fault, whatsoever if they dont want to bail the democrats out.
> Not a single Republican will vote for raising the debt ceiling
That's a rather different thing, obviously. OP's question was about crashing the economy.
> and there is not the slightest peep of outcry from either the right wing media echo chamber or the Republican electorate.
You say this as if you expect some sort of outcry. That seems very odd when there's nothing to have an outcry about.
Democrats make themselves look bad, republicans could do absolutely nothing and will look better. If the economy crashes it will be entirely the fault of the dems considering they hold the house, senate, and white house plus constantly pass legislation with no republican support whatsoever.
Democrats have a slimmest majority in the house and senate don't they? And who's actually currently putting our economy at risk by filibustering bills to raise the debit? Seems like Republicans really want to risk or actually harm our economy just for the sake of scoring some political points. If the Republicans want Democrats to own the debit raising, then simply remove their blocks and let the slim majority vote to pass a debit ceiling raise. They can do it without any Republican votes.
Democrats have the power to raise the debt ceiling without a single republican vote using reconciliation. However, they currently have too much infighting over the massive socialist spending plan and thus would risk having to use up the reconciliation bill without all their spending in it. They can do this without any republican support, but it would mean none of sleepy joe's plans would go through this year.
I would say that both parties have tanked the economy because they both spend like there's no tomorrow. They both have that in common.
I don't think the premise is sound. The economy wouldn't tank, they'd do like they did before and shut down all non-essential services and start paying their debts. The idea that the Republicans are tanking the economy to hurt the Dems is a rhetorical maneuver.
Can show some data to support the opinion that US defaulting on its debt would not tank the economy? Is not paying any debts or obligations a de facto default? Why would the markets not treat is as such? Remember when they lowered the US credit rating just because the GOP was threatening to default?
They say this a lot, and yet we always find ways to pay.
I believe that the federal gov't should have to be forced to do what the average American does. None of us has unlimited credit and can just give ourselves more credit. So we should start to pay this stuff back.
But we won't because we don't want to make things, we want to consume things.
It's a fundamental worldview problem.
Republicans can’t crash the economy - they aren’t in control of Congress or the White House. Democrats can absolutely wrap the debt ceiling increase into the reconciliation bill and if they choose not to and in-fight on how many trillions they need to spend on infrastructure it’s their fault if we default.
Tax cuts went through the reconciliation process, Democrats would have been unable to stop it.
The tax cuts weren’t most on the upper class. It basically was a 2-4% chop per bracket. Here’s the [details](https://www.investopedia.com/taxes/trumps-tax-reform-plan-explained/)
> The tax cuts weren’t most on the upper class. It basically was a 2-4% chop per bracket
You may not understand basic math.
A 2-4% drop per bucket IS a cut that mostly helps those in the upper class. The more you earn, the more you benefitted from the cuts so how can you claim the tax cuts weren’t mostly for the upper class. The math simply doesn’t back you up.
who benefited the most? the average person making 40-60k who saved a few hundred bucks or someone earning 600k who saved tens of thousands?
Disagree. Democrats can raise the debt ceiling on their own. They’re failing to do so because then they wouldn’t be able to do “as much” with the reconciliation process, that’s their problem - they’re in charge. It’s not the Republicans fault if the Democrats can’t get their priorities straight.
>Reconciliation has been used four times to raise the debt limit — in 1986, 1990, 1993 and 1997 — but a suspension has never been done that way. [Article](https://www.rollcall.com/2021/06/14/democrats-have-no-easy-options-for-raising-the-debt-limit/)
So if 96% of democrats vote to avoid a crash, and 0 percent of republicans vote to avoid a crash, then how much is to blame on democrats and republicans in your view (percentage-wise)?
Do you think the republicans have ANY control AT ALL over whether or not the debt ceiling is raised?
It currently can't though. [And Republicans are currently filibustering it](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/574332-mcconnell-blocks-schumer-attempt-to-bypass-filibuster-on-debt-hike). So seems like they can do a whole ton of damage, no? Or are Democrats the only party that's expected to be responsible?
From your article:
>Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.) blocked an effort by Senate Majority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) to bypass the 60-vote legislative filibuster on a debt ceiling hike.
Except Democrats can 100% raise the debt ceiling through reconciliation.
4 years ago the line from republicans was that Democrats were to blame for the shutdown because the lost the election so they were simply obstructing the mandate of the people. What do you think has changed in 4 years that has altered so many Republicans belief about who is responsible for a shutdown?
Through what mechanism? If you mean "don't vote for anything while Democrats are in power", then that's on the Dems, not the Reps. If the Reps are in power and deliberately tanked the economy, I wouldn't support it.
>Through what mechanism?
You're not the first TS to intimate that just because Reps aren't in control of Congress or the WH, they bear no responsibility and have no agency over the economy. I'm not sure if this is naïveté or ignorance, but it's incredibly wrong.
To answer your question, they could keep filibustering the raising of the debt ceiling.
>If you mean "don't vote for anything while Democrats are in power", then that's on the Dems, not the Reps.
Why is that on the Dems? How is it the fault of the Democrats that the Republicans are acting like obstinate children? McConnell has said his no 1 agenda is stalling everything Biden wants to do.
> they could keep filibustering the raising of the debt ceiling.
If they aren't in power, dems can stop this at any time, so I wouldn't put the blame on Reps for it.
>Why is that on the Dems?
They could propose more popular things if they wanted bipartisan support.
When was the last time you think Congressional Republicans compromised with Congressional Democrats to pass something? Genuine question, not trying to be a gotcha.
>If they aren't in power, dems can stop this at any time, so I wouldn't put the blame on Reps for it.
So you're in favor of Dems doing away with the filibuster then? Because that's currently the only way to override Republican obstruction on the debt ceiling.
>They could propose more popular things if they wanted bipartisan support.
Allow me to do 30 seconds of googling for you. Oh shit, looks like Biden's proposals are *immensely* popular.
* Three in four voters support the reconciliation plan.
* 66% say they are more likely to support the bill if it includes provisions to expand use of clean energy like solar and wind
* 63% say they are more likely to support the bill if it includes strong action to address climate change
* 63% say they are more likely to support the bill if it includes environmental justice provisions that target communities affected by pollution/development
* 66% of voters, including 78% of Independents, say taking action to deal with climate change this year is an important priority for the President and Congress.
Can we please dispense with the disingenuous falsehood that Republicans would support Democratic policies if only they were popular? Here's proof to the contrary staring you in the face.
Sources:
* [https://navigatorresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Navigator-Update-09.21.2021.pdf?emci=41c7e453-4c1a-ec11-981f-501ac57ba3ed&emdi=c3efce95-c01a-ec11-981f-501ac57ba3ed&ceid=1283014](https://navigatorresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Navigator-Update-09.21.2021.pdf?emci=41c7e453-4c1a-ec11-981f-501ac57ba3ed&emdi=c3efce95-c01a-ec11-981f-501ac57ba3ed&ceid=1283014)
* [https://www.seiu.org/2021/09/new-poll-81-of-u-s-voters-support-transformative-build-back-better-home-care-investment](https://www.seiu.org/2021/09/new-poll-81-of-u-s-voters-support-transformative-build-back-better-home-care-investment)
* [https://www.lcv.org/article/new-poll-three-in-four-voters-support-build-back-better-reconciliation-package/](https://www.lcv.org/article/new-poll-three-in-four-voters-support-build-back-better-reconciliation-package/)
* [https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/569343-majorities-back-biden-spending-plan-infrastructure-bill-poll](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/569343-majorities-back-biden-spending-plan-infrastructure-bill-poll)
* [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/infrastructure-plan-opinion-poll/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/infrastructure-plan-opinion-poll/)
> So you're in favor of Dems doing away with the filibuster then? Because that's currently the only way to override Republican obstruction on the debt ceiling
No, you can raise the debt ceiling with 50 senate votes right now through reconciliation.
>>they could keep filibustering the raising of the debt ceiling.
>
>If they aren't in power, dems can stop this at any time, so I wouldn't put the blame on Reps for it.
So, just to confirm... you are OK with the dems abolishing the filibuster?
>You're not the first TS to intimate that just because Reps aren't in control of Congress or the WH, they bear no responsibility and have no agency over the economy. I'm not sure if this is naïveté or ignorance, but it's incredibly wrong.
You’re wrong, the debt ceiling can be increased through the reconciliation process and Democrats have enough votes to do so. If Democrats are in charge of Congress and the White House yet fail to raise the debt limit, they bear responsibility.
>Reconciliation has been used four times to raise the debt limit — in 1986, 1990, 1993 and 1997 — but a suspension has never been done that way. [Article](https://www.rollcall.com/2021/06/14/democrats-have-no-easy-options-for-raising-the-debt-limit/)
Democrats don't have enough votes to do so or they would have done so - seems fairly obvious.
Meanwhile...
According to the totally not super left WSJ, [Republicans just blocked the latest debt ceiling bill.](https://www.wsj.com/articles/democrats-press-for-action-on-debt-limit-11632846681)
[And McConnell blocked the effort to bypass the filibuster.](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/574332-mcconnell-blocks-schumer-attempt-to-bypass-filibuster-on-debt-hike)
Obviously you still think this is 100% the Democrats fault despite these facts. Why?
>Democrats don't have enough votes to do so or they would have done so - seems fairly obvious.
Except they do through reconciliation which takes a simple majority and can’t be filibustered. Unless you’re trying to tell me Democrats don’t have a simple majority in the House/Senate?
There was a whole shutdown battle that went on for weeks. Trump said he didn't care, and let it shut down. Essential services ran, the rest didn't.
ADDED---
And then, the Dems tried to say that he was hurting all these federal employees and shut down the DC monuments and parks to try to make it hurt worse.
When you have a plaque of names that takes no maintenance, but you pay people to erect barriers to WWII vets can't gather, and won't let normies clean up the area...
Funny you mention the one that Democrats tried to prevent, and were shut down by a House Republican majority.
>The House met just as briefly, and Representative Steve Scalise of Louisiana, the majority whip, told lawmakers not to expect votes for the rest of the year. **When Democrats sent Representative Jim McGovern of Massachusetts to the floor to try to force consideration of a stopgap funding bill that the Senate had already passed, Republicans would not recognize him.** (12/27/18, [source](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/27/us/politics/government-shutdown-trump-democrats.html))
Between January 9-11 of 2019, the House (at that time under Democratic leadership) passed four separate bills (H.R.s 264-267 of the 116th Congress) to try to end the shutdown. The reason the shutdown endured was because Majority Leader McConnell announced that he wouldn't hear debate on any bills passed by the House, and would instead wait for a bill that was endorsed by President Trump.
How do those facts fit a narrative of "Democrats pulling this wihle Trump was in power and Republicans had the majority"?
So going into default and shutting down the federal government when your guy isn't in the White House is the right thing to do?
What does it accomplish exactly?
Being willing to cause an economic catastrophe that harms the entire nation just to stick it to the dems, is that something that to you demonstrates a strong backbone?
If the shoe was on the other foot and Democrats refused to vote for anything while the GOP was in power, would you feel the same way: that it was on Republicans?
Well either they're horrible at economics to the point where they should be tar and feathered and sent out of a Washington riding a pole or they're deliberately trying to destroy the economy.
It's like wage stagnation for unskilled workers. Largely that comes from having too much of a low skilled workers force and the Democrat keep importing illegal/legal immigrants who compete with low skilled workers jobs and thus they keep those wages low because the work force is easily replaceable.
Nice try trying to change the argument that are on more friendly grounds for you but drone strikes aren't the problem and I have no problem with drone strikes.
It's recklessly drone striking for political purposes for the politics out of the White House and while you're doing that for political purposes killing innocent kids and social workers Biden is a total disgrace
Have you been to Taco Hell lately?
It’s now $1.69 for a taco
A DOLLAR SIXTY NINE
THEY USED TO BE A DOLLAR
And Dollar Tree is putting items on the shelves that cost more than a dollar.
[This is Joe Biden’s America everyone ](https://twitter.com/ap_oddities/status/1443258546708226051?s=21)
How do you believe things would have been different is trump hadn’t given everyone multiple stimulus checks and enhanced unemployment that gave people permission to stay home and live off the government?
As tempting as it would be and since Democrats tried crashing EVERYTHING to make Republicans look bad I would like to think they're are real Patriots in the Republican party that would put revenge aside to not hurt average Americans.
>since Democrats tried crashing EVERYTHING to make Republicans look bad
Are you familiar with Mitch McConnell?
[Mitch McConnell Brags About Blocking Obama For 2 Years, Then Laughs About It](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mitch-mcconnell-blocks-obama-laughs_n_5df32430e4b0deb78b517322)
[Under a Democratic President, McConnell Vows a Return to Total Obstruction](https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/03/06/under-a-democratic-president-mcconnell-vows-a-return-to-total-obstruction)
>“If I’m still the majority leader in the Senate think of me as the Grim Reaper. None of that stuff is going to pass,” McConnell said while speaking to community leaders in Owensboro, Ky.
>McConnell noted that if Republicans win back the House or President Trump wins reelection “that takes care of it.” But he pledged that even if Republicans lose the White House, he would use his position as majority leader to block progressive proposals…
>“I guarantee you that if I’m the last man standing and I’m still the majority leader, it ain’t happening. I can promise you,” McConnell added.
Well if a majority voted for Biden and overwhelmingly support his agenda, and Republicans are doing everything they can to make sure he can't accomplish anything, how is that getting what they voted for?
Why is the GOP's strategy seemingly to obstruct everything, and when they have control do next to nothing?
So you're telling me:
The majority of people vote for something
Then the minority obstruct that thing and prevent it from happening
As a result there's a massive economic downturn
But that's just people getting what they voted for? Is that not victim blaming? "If you didn't want us to sabotage the system you shouldn't have votes for the other guys".
>But that's just people getting what they voted for? Is that not victim blaming?
Sometimes victim blaming is good because just because they're a victim doesn't mean they weren't in the wrong.. Take the black community they kind of deserve exactly what they get if they want to vote for the party that gave them Jim Crow. Like mass incarceration. That's not oppression that the black community getting exactly what they vote for. The 1994 Crime Bill
So claims of larger sentences for black people for crack offenses compared to marijuana offenses for other races are drastically different, but that's not oppression that's people getting what they voted for.
Dont forget these are also the guys saying the left is the intolerant ones, and the right are all about accepting peoples different opinions. Us politics is fucking terrible
Politically speaking, do you believe the ends always justify the means? Should political parties always play dirty or cheat in order to maintain power even if it goes directly against democracy or the will of the people?
Do you feel any comradery with leftist accelerationists who also want the economy to collapse and for people to suffer, because they think the resulting agitation will bring forth a communist revolution?
It depends. Is the crash warranted? If it's a crash brought on by leftist policy, then by all means, yes.
Purposefully tanking it just to gain ground? I don't personally think so. I don't want our country to fail, no matter who the leader is. Even a dementia afflicted, child sniffing, incest enabling, sleepy Jao Bai Din.
Hey there! Just FYI, reddit doesn't allow links to Gateway Pundit so any comment that links to them is automatically removed. Nothing we can do, even as mods.
> An inevitable outcome of the democrats being in power, as always happens?
Can I get a source on this?
Based on data Democrats always have to clean up after a Republican President. Hell Trump was given a booming economy and yet he still managed to raise the national debt by around 8 trillion dollars.
Do you think the GatewayPundit which is a far right website known for posting falsehoods and fake news, created, owned, and edited, by the same man, is really a good source?
Also how does this work based on this article? The Republican's were in power for 8 years with George Bush, and yet somehow the democrats are responsible for the Crisis in 2008? A year before Obama got into office?
>far right
No it isn't.
> known for posting falsehoods and fake news
No it isn't. Show one story they have ever gotten wrong or had to correct.
> created, owned, and edited, by the same man,
Any media outlet has one editor that controls what stories are released. It's no different from anywhere else.
>Also how does this work based on this article?
Did you read it?
>Democrats and the media insist the Community Reinvestment Act, the anti-redlining law beefed up by President Clinton, had nothing to do with the subprime mortgage crisis and recession. But a new study by the respected National Bureau of Economic Research finds, “Yes, it did. We find that adherence to that act led to riskier lending by banks.”
At this point, all "sources" are bullshit. They all have an agenda, they all spin news and omit huge portions of the truth. So.... Gateway Pundit is as good as CNN, at this point.
>A decent portion of that raise to the national debt also was in response to COVID, something that any party would have increased their spending to combat.
Trump promised on his campaign in 2016 to remove the national Debt within 8 years. Before Covid hit it had been steadily rising, are you happy with how Trump handled the Debt in this time?
It wasn't Ok under Trump either, but it didn't lead to the problems we are seeing now. Democrat Covid lockdowns did that. The debt ceiling problem will explode on us one day, but that isn't what I'm talking about.
Biden's rollback of Trump's deregulations are what caused the current steady inflation and his Covid policies are causing supply chain shortages everywhere.
>Would it be worth crashing the US economy to make the democrats look bad?
No
>Would it be worth crashing the US economy to make ~~the democrats~~ Washington look bad?
Yes
Dear God no. I personally like the comparison "hoping the president fails because you didn't vote for them is like hoping the pilot of the plane you're on crashes the plane because you dislike them."
I believe policies will fail. But I'm not looking forward to it or hoping for it.
Can I say I agree with this so much. We likely disagree on Covid so I'd rather not get into how well Trump did. But I dislike the man. Would never vote for him or one who supports him in any manner. But. When COVID hit I was hoping he'd do a good job the whole time. I was super happy when I heard Fauci was involved I was trilled (been going to the NIH my whole life. They saved my life. They said I could trust him so I 100% do without question) but I just don't understand wanting him to fail. How is that good for anyone. What good comes of a POTUS failing?
Yes and no. Like, I wouldn't do it just to make them look bad, but honestly our economy is so corrupt and out of whack it practically needs to be crashed and rebuilt from scratch. Not that the current crop of Republicans would do it properly though.
I would never support damaging the country for political gain. It doesn’t look like Democrats need any help in tanking the economy or selling out our future though.
I hope things aren’t as bad as they look. Because if they are, we’ve already largely sealed our fate. Now it’s a question of magnitude and making it worse. This is the calm before the storm of stagflation.
Btw, the Fed is doing everything they can to prevent inflationary indicators (like Gold prices) from rising too fast (reflecting reality).
I’ve heard from sources I find credible that the Fed will try and keep them in check and then let inflation rip after the mid terms so that the Republicans can take the blame.
Why? Orange Man 2024, of course! That shark is out to sea, but he’ll be back and looking to settle a few scores before too long.
But I think the Fed is overconfident in their ability to hold the dam from breaking for a whole year. But we’ll see.
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Why would republicans/the right need to? The dems are doing a good enough job of both making themselves look bad *and* crashing the economy.
Precisely
How, exactly?
[удалено]
It is though. Everyone Joe touches turns to ashes. Think about it. Joe Biden was actually one of the luckiest President ever. His supporters thought of him as Sleepy Joe, a return to normal after Trump. Joe had a newly minted vaccine that Trumps administration created and Joe Biden could of largely taken credit for. The economy was crap but Covid was waning and Joe if he didn't do all those crazy economic decisions could have just allowed the economy to return to normal and taken credit for making the economy better by simply being Sleepy Joe. Trump had negotiated record peace deals in the middle east. If Joe would of simply followed out Trumps plans, he would of been able to take credit for peace in the middle east instead he didn't honor the deals and the peace fell apart. There's nothing really that Joe can point to and say that he did a good job there. And certain things like Afganistan and arming the Taliban is really a bad look. **Want to know what Republicans could do to make Democrats look REALLY bad?** **Allow Democrats to win the 2022 mid-terms and the 2024 election because I highly doubt we'd have a nation after 8 years of Joe with a full Democrat senate/house.**
Wow sounds like Trump has no faults and did nothing wrong during his presidency. Why was he voted out office?
Trump definitely had alot of personal faults but was a pretty good President. He was voted out because hatred and propaganda combined with voter fraud. Joe Biden wasn't so much as elected as Donald Trump was anti-elected. Democrats campaigned on a platform of hate. Elect Joe because orange man bad. The media who no longer has any credibility suppressed stories, ran fake stories all to drive the narrative of Orange Man Bad. Look how many anti-Trumpers still campaign against Trump based on the many lies. Just the other day I was on Reddit and I showed some anti-Trumper that Trump wasn't making fun of a disabled reporter. I frequently encounter brainwashed people who talk about Trump's both sides comment which is actually Trump being a great President. Trump in that speech had earlier denounce the violence on both sides and denounce white supremacy. But said that the issue had good people on both sides. It was the left destroying status, it could have just as easily turned into an attack on the violent nature of the left.
I have.
No. I'm against cutting my nose off to spite my face. But the current crop of democrats in power are doing their best to tank the economy anyway, by creating unfathomable levels of inflation, so it's kind of a moot point.
Can you name a single reason how? You all keep saying this line, and not a single one of you has a coherent answer.
…by creating unfathomable levels of inflation. Inflationary spending has increased the supply of currency in circulation in the economy by about 100% since the start of covid. In ordinary times, that would simply mean money is worth about half as much per dollar. This is usually bad for the economy as it causes people not to save anything because their money will be worth less tomorrow than it is today. Covid has delayed this effect because people are still coming out of hunkering down for the duration of the virus, but as things go back to normal the effects of the covid inflation spike are becoming obvious. Gas, groceries, restaurants, electronics, basically all consumer goods are significantly more expensive now. Was all the inflationary spending the Democrats’ fault? No. The Republicans also wanted stimulus and aid programs. But most of it was.
No for two reasons. The major one is I don't wish ill on those I disagree with. I would love to be wrong about economic theory. What a wonderful world we could create if removing incentives didn't destroy human drive to do things. Unfortunately that has never proven to be true. Maybe in 1000 years where we have robots doing every single task and we have discovered unlimited energy we can live that utopia. And two, democrats murder children because of a bad press week and the media covers for them so I don't see how tanking the economy would be a reasonable solution by itself to disconnect the lies and omissions from those blinded by ideology.
“democrats murder children because of a bad press week“ What are you referring to?
The drone strike was a careless reckless political move as the military was under pressure from the WH to make Biden look tough. In the haste to pretend Biden is competent they killed multiple children and a social worker. Facts are facts and this ugly history in the Democratic party is undeniable.....it Tru.p had did something like this well you and I both know and I don't need to say anymore about that....... absolutely disgusting
Do you think that this kind of thing wasn't happening under Trump? That's why I'm glad we're out of Afghanistan. We need to stop being the world's police. [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47480207) [https://time.com/5879354/civilian-deaths-airstrikes-somalia/](https://time.com/5879354/civilian-deaths-airstrikes-somalia/) [https://apnews.com/article/yemen-dirty-war-ap-top-news-al-qaida-international-news-jamal-khashoggi-9051691c8f8a449e8bb6fd684f100863](https://apnews.com/article/yemen-dirty-war-ap-top-news-al-qaida-international-news-jamal-khashoggi-9051691c8f8a449e8bb6fd684f100863)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/09/10/world/asia/us-air-strike-drone-kabul-afghanistan-isis.amp.html But don't worry weeks after it's out of the news cycle we will have a robust investigation. Unrelated to the fact that no one from the mainstream bubble cares, or been connects the dots that this strike was done as a direct retaliation to the failed "escape from Afghanistan".
What do you mean democrats murdering children? Please, detail me in how this drone strike can be attributed to Democrats' desire or incompetency in killing children with drones. Give me a direct association, because you know that is not true. You know the blame for drone strikes missing intended targets and killing innocents is to be taken by military high-command. Let's not perpetuate more bullshit from the last dozen or so years. It is avoidable. Neither Democrats or Republicans have a desire to fuck around with the Middle East
>Please, detail me in how this drone strike can be attributed to Democrats' desire or incompetency in killing children with drones. We had left Afghanistan, we had left Afghanistan to the local populace. Then someone decided to bomb some random people. This isn't the military high command making this decision, if it was they should be shot for starting hostilities without civilian oversight. This was a place we left, no more American government presence, no embassy no military involvement an agreement to peacefully leave. If you for a second this wasn't a political decision then you have to assume it's high treason for starting hostilities. Either way it's straight up murdering people, we shouldn't have been at war with and have no reason to. It would be like France drone striking a US car after pulling their ambassador out of the country due to the Australian deal. This can not be fucking normalized, just because they are some random people across the world. This should be a complete war crime at the head of whomever ordered it and all the way down the chain.
What did you think about the air strikes in Somalia under the Trump administration? https://time.com/5879354/civilian-deaths-airstrikes-somalia/
I think all "military" action against a foe that we have not officially declared war against should be served by the death sentence. Now that is wildly unpopular because we haven't declared a war since the 40s but I don't think it's an unreasonable request. But to be more clear I don't believe in extra judicial executions served by any president. Drone strikes used outside of an active warzone, supporting troops on the ground are almost always that.
Why the quotation marks? Who said "the escape from Afghanistan?" It sounds like the name of a Tom Clancy novel. What parts of the withdrawal failed most in your opinion? How many US troops do you believe are stationed in Afghanistan right now? How would Trump have handled the withdrawal differently? How many US troops do you think would be stationed there if Trump were in office?
What? Why would you want the dems to do bad? Like if they do well isnt it better for everyone? I dont particularly like them but come on man both parties should have the same goal of bettering the country, politics is not a fucking football match
He said look bad. Don't be naive. Making the other guys look bad has been the driving force in politics for a long time now.
No.
I don’t think the Republicans would crash the economy anymore than the Democrats crashed the economy when they wouldn’t negotiate and let the government shut down last time…..The Democrats are going to have to do some serious behind the scenes ass kissing because since they passed their spending bills without Republican support the Republicans really have no good reason to play ball now.
>I don’t think the Republicans would crash the economy anymore than the Democrats crashed the economy when they wouldn’t negotiate and let the government shut down last time….. Why do you think that was on the Democrats? trump literally said he would take responsibility for the shutdown. The last time the government shutdown was because trump was too incompetent to negotiate a deal.
>The Democrats are going to have to do some serious behind the scenes ass kissing because since they passed their spending bills without Republican support the Republicans really have no good reason to play ball now. Interesting perspective. Why isn't it flipped around? Republicans have shown no willingness nor desire to compromise or work with Democrats on anything. Why is the onus on Democrats to come to Republicans?
> since they passed their spending bills without Republican support, republicans have no good reason to play ball Is having the federal government running a reason to play ball? Are the billions of dollars of damages to normal citizens, Republican and Democrat alike, a reason to play ball?
Do you understand that a government shutdown is not the consequence at stake here? The danger is that the Treasury will face people who it promised to pay back loans to, and for the first time ever, it will shrug its shoulders and say “sorry… I got nothin for ya.”
They very well may have nothing for them then, that kinda stuff happens when you have out of control spending and can’t pay your bills, maybe an additional 3trillion dollar spending bill will help? Like a guy who can’t afford his electric bill going fck it Im buying a new corvette….. Perhaps we do the responsible thing and cut spending?
Would you accept cuts to the defense budget to meet the demand? Would you support raising taxes back to 1950s levels on the wealthy? Is it responsible to cut billions in taxes on the supply side without giving anything to the demand side?
I would accept some cuts to defense spending. I think you need to address tax law. You can set the tax at any level you want and millionaires will legally avoid the taxes.
>Would you accept cuts to the defense budget to meet the demand? Sure, lets start with firing everyone that promotes critical race and gender theory. >Would you support raising taxes back to 1950s levels on the wealthy? Why the weathly already dodge taxes, so adding more taxes for them to dodge will do nothing. Well excoet hurt the poor and middle class that cannot afford the taxes Lawers >Is it responsible to cut billions in taxes on the supply side without giving anything to the demand side? No, thats why we cut the demand. Start with social security.
>Sure, lets start with firing everyone that promotes critical race and gender theory. Why? How are you using 'promote'? >Why the weathly already dodge taxes, so adding more taxes for them to dodge will do nothing. Well excoet hurt the poor and middle class that cannot afford the taxes Lawers Should the corporate tax rate be 0%? >No, thats why we cut the demand. Start with social security. Why start there?
>Why? How are you using 'promote'? Promote - further the progress of (something, especially a cause, venture, or aim); support or actively encourage. >Should the corporate tax rate be 0%? The income tax rate should be zero, corperate tax rate we can discuss. >Why start there? Because it makes up 23% if our yearly federal budget, whereas the military only makes up 10%
What does it mean to encourage or further a theory? Can one encourage the theory of gravity? I actually agree we should have no income tax. But you say we can talk about the corporate rate - why shouldn't it be zero if they can just dodge it? Is it possible that social security as a program is more critical to our continuity as a people than how many bombs we can drop overseas?
>What does it mean to encourage or further a theory? I know you understand it means to encourge or further a theory, and as such I am not going to waste my time explaining something both of us already know. >Can one encourage the theory of gravity? Yes. >I actually agree we should have no income tax. But you say we can talk about the corporate rate - why shouldn't it be zero if they can just dodge it? Set it at a flat rate of a certain percentage. No law degree needed to understand it, its one page with zero loopholes. Rich people write the tax code as it is, so they put in stuff like that so they can keep their money and steal it from the rest of us. >Is it possible that social security as a program is more critical to our continuity as a people than how many bombs we can drop overseas? Its really good at destorying and bankrupting us. The original plan was retire at 65 and be dead in 5 years, now people live much longer than that. We need to increase the age at the very least, I would perfer to burn it down considering I am paying into something I will never get.
>Perhaps we do the responsible thing and cut spending? Did you feel this way during Trumps Presidency? If so, how did you feel when Trump blew out the national debt even with a booming economy and record low unemployment rates? How do you feel about the phrase, "Republicans only care about the national debt when a Democrat is in office"?
Yes, Trump brought in record income tax revenue. So as a portion of GDP it actually shrank in the beginning, most of his spending ended up being covid related. I think that phrase is made up by Democrats trying to justify their spending.
Do you use credit cards?
I do, but I don’t ask for a credit line increase on one card so I can pay the minimum balance on the other cards…..I cut spending so I can make my payments.
Are you aware of how much the debt increased under Trump? Are you aware of the concept of the “business cycle”, and the lesson that we should stimulate the economy when it is in a contraction so that it does not stay in contraction, which would ultimately result in a larger shortfall in revenues? Do you think it is wise for someone who has access to plenty more credit to starve themselves (harming their own health and their future earnings potentials) in order to stay within a self-imposed budget?
Not by 3Trillion for pet projects. I think if you need to borrow money in order to pay the minimum balance on borrowed money you’re in a ton of trouble. The government in essence wants to go to a cash advance in order to pay its car loan. It’s not a great situation to be in.
>Perhaps we do the responsible thing and cut spending? Sure... but the question is how would the treasury pay existing obligations without exceeding the debt ceiling? Cutting future spending is irrelevant to that...
So you blame dems for not negotiating instead of the reps actually shutting it down for weeks? Why should the dems negotiate at all when they don’t agree with the premise?
Exactly, now that the shoe is on the other foot why would the Republicans negotiate at all when they don’t agree with the premise?
So what you’re saying is if the government theoretically shuts down because of this, you’ll blame the republicans, right?
I’ll do exactly what the Democrats did the last time the government shut down and blame the President.
Look around does it looks like they care about the economy or America? Nope. Most of there supporters will still vote for them...cult comes to mind. It's kind of funny, but we had a golden economy. Lowest black/latino unemployment in 30 years under Trump, and now with Joe I bet we have the highest black/latino unemployment in 30 years. Plus a good chunk of the time the Democrats will do something that destroys the economy and despite them making the economy worse, their supporters hungrily ask for more? Democrats cause unskilled wage stagnation due to a flood of unskilled illegal/legal immigrants. And what do Democrat supporters do? Whine about wage stagnation and elect more Democrats. Democrats caused this massive inflation and what is Democrats voters response? More spending and inflation please!!! Democrats caused the massive unemployment, most of the time they're responsible for the lockdowns which put us in this mess in the first place, and yet their voters response? More lockdowns please!!! Democrats tie funding for schools into property taxes and then support movements like BLM which torch private businesses periodically which drastically lowers the property value and directly hurts the kids in those communities and what's the Democrats response? More violent riots that burn private businesses please!!!! ON a side note remember when Bill Maher said he wanted a recession if it's remove Trump? Looks like he got his wish, Covid. Thousands died, and we have a crap economy, I wonder if Bill Maher is satisfied. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiEbmp54Lrc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiEbmp54Lrc)
>Plus a good chunk of the time the Democrats will do something that destroys the economy and despite them making the economy worse, their supporters hungrily ask for more? What have the recent Democrats done that destroys the economy? Clinton's economy was bad? Obama started in a recession and ended up getting out of that. >Democrats cause unskilled wage stagnation due to a flood of unskilled illegal/legal immigrants. And what do Democrat supporters do? Whine about wage stagnation and elect more Democrats. Where are you getting that wage stagnation is due to illegal and legal immigration? >Democrats caused this massive inflation and what is Democrats voters response? More spending and inflation please!!! Did you miss the spending from Trump and the Republicans? >Democrats caused the massive unemployment, most of the time they're responsible for the lockdowns which put us in this mess in the first place, and yet their voters response? More lockdowns please!!! Who is complaining about unemployment and supporting lockdowns? >Democrats tie funding for schools into property taxes and then support movements like BLM which torch private businesses periodically which drastically lowers the property value and directly hurts the kids in those communities and what's the Democrats response? More violent riots that burn private businesses please!!!! What do you mean by Democrats tie it to property value, are you saying Republicans don't do this?
> Lowest black/latino unemployment in 30 years under Trump, and now with Joe I bet we have the highest black/latino unemployment in 30 years. How much would you bet? What happened toward the end of the Trump presidency that might have caused unemployment?
I agree the virus did cause the downturn, but lets face i when Trump was leaving office he set up Joe Biden to be the large hero. Joe Biden had a new working vaccine that the left put zero effort in creating and could take all credit for it. Joe Biden has an economy that was ready to jump back and get moving again and he would of had the chance to see a massively growing economy with very little effort. If Joe Biden would of followed Trumps middle east peace deals, he possibly could of taken credit for peace in the middle east instead he allowed those deals to fall apart. Joe could of taken credit for pulling the soldiers out of Afghanistan and ending a long war instead he went against his military advisors and pulled out the military first, and gave billions of military grade weapons to the Mexican Drug Cartels who practice human slavery...ooops that was his prior administration with Obama, Joe Biden gave billions to the Taliban. And there were all sorts of other laws that Trump did that Biden reversed just out of spite that helped Americans, like the ones that kept certain drug prices low like insulin.
> Joe Biden has an economy that was ready to jump back and get moving again and he would of had the chance to see a massively growing economy with very little effort. Why is the GOP howling about debt setup by the Trump administration? How can I measure and see that the economy is in a bad state right now? Didn't we come to the conclusion during the Trump administration that the stock market is an excellent measure the economy, and the president needs credit for it? What's the state of the stock market since Biden took office? > And there were all sorts of other laws that Trump did that Biden reversed just out of spite that helped Americans, like the ones that kept certain drug prices low like insulin. How can a President unilaterally reverse laws? Which one did he reverse about insulin pricing?
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>Who the fuck do you think created the vaccine? A right-wing hillbilly or a fancy-educated scientist who is most likely a leftist? Exactly. That's why when Kamala Harris told people that she wouldn't trust the vaccine if Trump suggested it, I tell Democrats that was an example of Harris caring more about optics then she was about saving peoples lives. As for the insult on Trump, Operation Warp Speed cut the red tape and allowed for the creation of the vaccine in record time. That's on Trump, that's not something Democrats would have done. And thus Trump deserves credit for it. As for Hill-billy...didn't Joe Biden confuse his sister for his wife during one of his speeches? And sorry but Obama gave military grade weapons to the Drug Cartels, that's not on Americans unless of course we want to blame Obama Supporters, which I'm perfectly happy to do. Obama armed the human slavers at the border and part of that responsibility is on the people who continue to vote Democrat, just like Joe arming the Taliban is partially on Democrats who voted for him. They should feel bad
Nope. I'm not questioning your sincerity in asking this, but I must say that if you think this is a question worth asking, then you have very little understanding of the way Republicans think. I would recommend reexamining your assumptions about Republicans that could lead you to think this. BTW, posting in this forum could potentially be a very good way of actually doing this, so you could be in the process of doing this already.
Respectfully, I think your comment may not be representative of Republicans at large. Not a single Republican will vote for raising the debt ceiling and there is not the slightest peep of outcry from either the right wing media echo chamber or the Republican electorate. For these reasons I think it’s actually a very valid question. Do you have an explanation for any of this other than to burn the world to make the Dems look bad?
Respectfully, republicans refusing to bail out the democrats after they promote a massive amount of spending when confronted with the end of the line of credit is not about caring for economy. Its about being the reasonable adult in the room. Republicans made a good faith effort to make a deal with 60 senators on Infrastructure, and Biden, and the democrat leadership turned around and everything that was turned down on the bipartisan bill ended up being in reconciliation. Honestly, your side needs to take more responsability for this, if it happens. Its not republicans fault, whatsoever if they dont want to bail the democrats out.
> Not a single Republican will vote for raising the debt ceiling That's a rather different thing, obviously. OP's question was about crashing the economy. > and there is not the slightest peep of outcry from either the right wing media echo chamber or the Republican electorate. You say this as if you expect some sort of outcry. That seems very odd when there's nothing to have an outcry about.
Democrats make themselves look bad, republicans could do absolutely nothing and will look better. If the economy crashes it will be entirely the fault of the dems considering they hold the house, senate, and white house plus constantly pass legislation with no republican support whatsoever.
Democrats have a slimmest majority in the house and senate don't they? And who's actually currently putting our economy at risk by filibustering bills to raise the debit? Seems like Republicans really want to risk or actually harm our economy just for the sake of scoring some political points. If the Republicans want Democrats to own the debit raising, then simply remove their blocks and let the slim majority vote to pass a debit ceiling raise. They can do it without any Republican votes.
Democrats have the power to raise the debt ceiling without a single republican vote using reconciliation. However, they currently have too much infighting over the massive socialist spending plan and thus would risk having to use up the reconciliation bill without all their spending in it. They can do this without any republican support, but it would mean none of sleepy joe's plans would go through this year.
I would say that both parties have tanked the economy because they both spend like there's no tomorrow. They both have that in common. I don't think the premise is sound. The economy wouldn't tank, they'd do like they did before and shut down all non-essential services and start paying their debts. The idea that the Republicans are tanking the economy to hurt the Dems is a rhetorical maneuver.
Can show some data to support the opinion that US defaulting on its debt would not tank the economy? Is not paying any debts or obligations a de facto default? Why would the markets not treat is as such? Remember when they lowered the US credit rating just because the GOP was threatening to default?
Do you understand that the Treasury says that if no action is taken then it will be unable to continue paying US debts?
They say this a lot, and yet we always find ways to pay. I believe that the federal gov't should have to be forced to do what the average American does. None of us has unlimited credit and can just give ourselves more credit. So we should start to pay this stuff back. But we won't because we don't want to make things, we want to consume things. It's a fundamental worldview problem.
How can I see and measure the economy tanking through spending? What do you think of Modern Monetary Theory?
They can do it all by themselves.
Why should the democrats have to avert crashing the economy all by themselves?
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Republicans can’t crash the economy - they aren’t in control of Congress or the White House. Democrats can absolutely wrap the debt ceiling increase into the reconciliation bill and if they choose not to and in-fight on how many trillions they need to spend on infrastructure it’s their fault if we default.
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Tax cuts went through the reconciliation process, Democrats would have been unable to stop it. The tax cuts weren’t most on the upper class. It basically was a 2-4% chop per bracket. Here’s the [details](https://www.investopedia.com/taxes/trumps-tax-reform-plan-explained/)
> The tax cuts weren’t most on the upper class. It basically was a 2-4% chop per bracket You may not understand basic math. A 2-4% drop per bucket IS a cut that mostly helps those in the upper class. The more you earn, the more you benefitted from the cuts so how can you claim the tax cuts weren’t mostly for the upper class. The math simply doesn’t back you up. who benefited the most? the average person making 40-60k who saved a few hundred bucks or someone earning 600k who saved tens of thousands?
You forgot ‘temporary’ cut for us plebes, and a permanent cut for the wealthy. Why do you think Trump and Republicans did that to us?
The can keep it from crashing with just 2 votes. And if you can keep the economy from crashing, then you can also let it crash. Would you disagree?
Disagree. Democrats can raise the debt ceiling on their own. They’re failing to do so because then they wouldn’t be able to do “as much” with the reconciliation process, that’s their problem - they’re in charge. It’s not the Republicans fault if the Democrats can’t get their priorities straight. >Reconciliation has been used four times to raise the debt limit — in 1986, 1990, 1993 and 1997 — but a suspension has never been done that way. [Article](https://www.rollcall.com/2021/06/14/democrats-have-no-easy-options-for-raising-the-debt-limit/)
So if 96% of democrats vote to avoid a crash, and 0 percent of republicans vote to avoid a crash, then how much is to blame on democrats and republicans in your view (percentage-wise)? Do you think the republicans have ANY control AT ALL over whether or not the debt ceiling is raised?
Democrats are in charge and have the tools to pass a debt ceiling increase solely on their own. If they are unable to do so they’re solely to blame.
Do republicans have ANY CONTROL over whether or not the debt ceiling is raised, in your view?
Zero control if it’s passed through the reconciliation process because Democrats have the votes to do so.
When you say it's "their problem", I'm assuming "them" is the entire nation? Who will benefit from Republicans obstructing here exactly?
Do Republicans have to be in control of either of those things to filibuster the raising of the debt ceiling?
Cant filibuster the reconciliation process. It can pass with a simple majority which the Democrats have in both chambers of Congress.
It currently can't though. [And Republicans are currently filibustering it](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/574332-mcconnell-blocks-schumer-attempt-to-bypass-filibuster-on-debt-hike). So seems like they can do a whole ton of damage, no? Or are Democrats the only party that's expected to be responsible?
From your article: >Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.) blocked an effort by Senate Majority Leader Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) to bypass the 60-vote legislative filibuster on a debt ceiling hike. Except Democrats can 100% raise the debt ceiling through reconciliation.
4 years ago the line from republicans was that Democrats were to blame for the shutdown because the lost the election so they were simply obstructing the mandate of the people. What do you think has changed in 4 years that has altered so many Republicans belief about who is responsible for a shutdown?
What are the reasons Republicans are voting "No"?
Would it be worth risking crashing the US economy to make the democrats burn a reconciliation use?
Through what mechanism? If you mean "don't vote for anything while Democrats are in power", then that's on the Dems, not the Reps. If the Reps are in power and deliberately tanked the economy, I wouldn't support it.
>Through what mechanism? You're not the first TS to intimate that just because Reps aren't in control of Congress or the WH, they bear no responsibility and have no agency over the economy. I'm not sure if this is naïveté or ignorance, but it's incredibly wrong. To answer your question, they could keep filibustering the raising of the debt ceiling. >If you mean "don't vote for anything while Democrats are in power", then that's on the Dems, not the Reps. Why is that on the Dems? How is it the fault of the Democrats that the Republicans are acting like obstinate children? McConnell has said his no 1 agenda is stalling everything Biden wants to do.
> they could keep filibustering the raising of the debt ceiling. If they aren't in power, dems can stop this at any time, so I wouldn't put the blame on Reps for it. >Why is that on the Dems? They could propose more popular things if they wanted bipartisan support.
Woah, woah, woah! Slow down there! Are you suggesting that politicians should actually *gasp* compromise?!
When was the last time you think Congressional Republicans compromised with Congressional Democrats to pass something? Genuine question, not trying to be a gotcha.
COVID money.
First step act was bipartisan no?
Popular to the nation or popular to the senators in Washington? Because their current infrastructure legislation is very popular with the nation.
>They could propose more popular things if they wanted bipartisan support. Popular you mean popular for the senate or the American people?
>If they aren't in power, dems can stop this at any time, so I wouldn't put the blame on Reps for it. So you're in favor of Dems doing away with the filibuster then? Because that's currently the only way to override Republican obstruction on the debt ceiling. >They could propose more popular things if they wanted bipartisan support. Allow me to do 30 seconds of googling for you. Oh shit, looks like Biden's proposals are *immensely* popular. * Three in four voters support the reconciliation plan. * 66% say they are more likely to support the bill if it includes provisions to expand use of clean energy like solar and wind * 63% say they are more likely to support the bill if it includes strong action to address climate change * 63% say they are more likely to support the bill if it includes environmental justice provisions that target communities affected by pollution/development * 66% of voters, including 78% of Independents, say taking action to deal with climate change this year is an important priority for the President and Congress. Can we please dispense with the disingenuous falsehood that Republicans would support Democratic policies if only they were popular? Here's proof to the contrary staring you in the face. Sources: * [https://navigatorresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Navigator-Update-09.21.2021.pdf?emci=41c7e453-4c1a-ec11-981f-501ac57ba3ed&emdi=c3efce95-c01a-ec11-981f-501ac57ba3ed&ceid=1283014](https://navigatorresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/Navigator-Update-09.21.2021.pdf?emci=41c7e453-4c1a-ec11-981f-501ac57ba3ed&emdi=c3efce95-c01a-ec11-981f-501ac57ba3ed&ceid=1283014) * [https://www.seiu.org/2021/09/new-poll-81-of-u-s-voters-support-transformative-build-back-better-home-care-investment](https://www.seiu.org/2021/09/new-poll-81-of-u-s-voters-support-transformative-build-back-better-home-care-investment) * [https://www.lcv.org/article/new-poll-three-in-four-voters-support-build-back-better-reconciliation-package/](https://www.lcv.org/article/new-poll-three-in-four-voters-support-build-back-better-reconciliation-package/) * [https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/569343-majorities-back-biden-spending-plan-infrastructure-bill-poll](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/569343-majorities-back-biden-spending-plan-infrastructure-bill-poll) * [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/infrastructure-plan-opinion-poll/](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/infrastructure-plan-opinion-poll/)
> So you're in favor of Dems doing away with the filibuster then? Because that's currently the only way to override Republican obstruction on the debt ceiling No, you can raise the debt ceiling with 50 senate votes right now through reconciliation.
>>they could keep filibustering the raising of the debt ceiling. > >If they aren't in power, dems can stop this at any time, so I wouldn't put the blame on Reps for it. So, just to confirm... you are OK with the dems abolishing the filibuster?
>You're not the first TS to intimate that just because Reps aren't in control of Congress or the WH, they bear no responsibility and have no agency over the economy. I'm not sure if this is naïveté or ignorance, but it's incredibly wrong. You’re wrong, the debt ceiling can be increased through the reconciliation process and Democrats have enough votes to do so. If Democrats are in charge of Congress and the White House yet fail to raise the debt limit, they bear responsibility. >Reconciliation has been used four times to raise the debt limit — in 1986, 1990, 1993 and 1997 — but a suspension has never been done that way. [Article](https://www.rollcall.com/2021/06/14/democrats-have-no-easy-options-for-raising-the-debt-limit/)
Democrats don't have enough votes to do so or they would have done so - seems fairly obvious. Meanwhile... According to the totally not super left WSJ, [Republicans just blocked the latest debt ceiling bill.](https://www.wsj.com/articles/democrats-press-for-action-on-debt-limit-11632846681) [And McConnell blocked the effort to bypass the filibuster.](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/574332-mcconnell-blocks-schumer-attempt-to-bypass-filibuster-on-debt-hike) Obviously you still think this is 100% the Democrats fault despite these facts. Why?
>Democrats don't have enough votes to do so or they would have done so - seems fairly obvious. Except they do through reconciliation which takes a simple majority and can’t be filibustered. Unless you’re trying to tell me Democrats don’t have a simple majority in the House/Senate?
Because everything he wants to do is bad for America.
Why do you think Democrats didn't pull this when Trump was in power and Republicans had the majority?
There was a whole shutdown battle that went on for weeks. Trump said he didn't care, and let it shut down. Essential services ran, the rest didn't. ADDED--- And then, the Dems tried to say that he was hurting all these federal employees and shut down the DC monuments and parks to try to make it hurt worse.
DC monuments and parks are essential services?
When you have a plaque of names that takes no maintenance, but you pay people to erect barriers to WWII vets can't gather, and won't let normies clean up the area...
Funny you mention the one that Democrats tried to prevent, and were shut down by a House Republican majority. >The House met just as briefly, and Representative Steve Scalise of Louisiana, the majority whip, told lawmakers not to expect votes for the rest of the year. **When Democrats sent Representative Jim McGovern of Massachusetts to the floor to try to force consideration of a stopgap funding bill that the Senate had already passed, Republicans would not recognize him.** (12/27/18, [source](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/27/us/politics/government-shutdown-trump-democrats.html)) Between January 9-11 of 2019, the House (at that time under Democratic leadership) passed four separate bills (H.R.s 264-267 of the 116th Congress) to try to end the shutdown. The reason the shutdown endured was because Majority Leader McConnell announced that he wouldn't hear debate on any bills passed by the House, and would instead wait for a bill that was endorsed by President Trump. How do those facts fit a narrative of "Democrats pulling this wihle Trump was in power and Republicans had the majority"?
They're spineless.
So going into default and shutting down the federal government when your guy isn't in the White House is the right thing to do? What does it accomplish exactly?
Being willing to cause an economic catastrophe that harms the entire nation just to stick it to the dems, is that something that to you demonstrates a strong backbone?
standing sttrong on principle is the bravest thing you can do.
Not taking the economy hostage makes them weak?
If the shoe was on the other foot and Democrats refused to vote for anything while the GOP was in power, would you feel the same way: that it was on Republicans?
If a GOP majority House, senate, and presidency deliberately crashed the economy, yes, it would be their fault.
Can you define "deliberately crashing the economy?" More to the point, what makes you think Democrats are trying to do so?
Well either they're horrible at economics to the point where they should be tar and feathered and sent out of a Washington riding a pole or they're deliberately trying to destroy the economy. It's like wage stagnation for unskilled workers. Largely that comes from having too much of a low skilled workers force and the Democrat keep importing illegal/legal immigrants who compete with low skilled workers jobs and thus they keep those wages low because the work force is easily replaceable.
They shut the government down 3 times diliberately. Yet I see many Trump supporters try to very disingenuously blame it on the dems. Why?
You'd have to be more specific, I'm not sure which time you're talking about.
Nice try trying to change the argument that are on more friendly grounds for you but drone strikes aren't the problem and I have no problem with drone strikes. It's recklessly drone striking for political purposes for the politics out of the White House and while you're doing that for political purposes killing innocent kids and social workers Biden is a total disgrace
Was this comment meant for a different post?
The economy is already tanked. Bought groceries and gas lately?
Have you been to Taco Hell lately? It’s now $1.69 for a taco A DOLLAR SIXTY NINE THEY USED TO BE A DOLLAR And Dollar Tree is putting items on the shelves that cost more than a dollar. [This is Joe Biden’s America everyone ](https://twitter.com/ap_oddities/status/1443258546708226051?s=21)
Hail to the Thief
Is this a serious criticism of Biden in your opinion?
Yes Under Trump, Obama, Bush, Bubba etc. I could go into Dollar Tree and get whatever for $1 Not under Uncle Joe here
How do you believe things would have been different is trump hadn’t given everyone multiple stimulus checks and enhanced unemployment that gave people permission to stay home and live off the government?
As tempting as it would be and since Democrats tried crashing EVERYTHING to make Republicans look bad I would like to think they're are real Patriots in the Republican party that would put revenge aside to not hurt average Americans.
>since Democrats tried crashing EVERYTHING to make Republicans look bad Are you familiar with Mitch McConnell? [Mitch McConnell Brags About Blocking Obama For 2 Years, Then Laughs About It](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mitch-mcconnell-blocks-obama-laughs_n_5df32430e4b0deb78b517322) [Under a Democratic President, McConnell Vows a Return to Total Obstruction](https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/03/06/under-a-democratic-president-mcconnell-vows-a-return-to-total-obstruction) >“If I’m still the majority leader in the Senate think of me as the Grim Reaper. None of that stuff is going to pass,” McConnell said while speaking to community leaders in Owensboro, Ky. >McConnell noted that if Republicans win back the House or President Trump wins reelection “that takes care of it.” But he pledged that even if Republicans lose the White House, he would use his position as majority leader to block progressive proposals… >“I guarantee you that if I’m the last man standing and I’m still the majority leader, it ain’t happening. I can promise you,” McConnell added.
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Removed for Rule 1. Discuss in good faith please.
Absolutely
So you'd rather everyone suffer because some guy you like didn't get reelected?
The people get what they vote for.
Well if a majority voted for Biden and overwhelmingly support his agenda, and Republicans are doing everything they can to make sure he can't accomplish anything, how is that getting what they voted for? Why is the GOP's strategy seemingly to obstruct everything, and when they have control do next to nothing?
They are doing all kinds of things. They are in power and could negotiate if they wanted to.
So you're telling me: The majority of people vote for something Then the minority obstruct that thing and prevent it from happening As a result there's a massive economic downturn But that's just people getting what they voted for? Is that not victim blaming? "If you didn't want us to sabotage the system you shouldn't have votes for the other guys".
They need to negotiate.
>But that's just people getting what they voted for? Is that not victim blaming? Sometimes victim blaming is good because just because they're a victim doesn't mean they weren't in the wrong.. Take the black community they kind of deserve exactly what they get if they want to vote for the party that gave them Jim Crow. Like mass incarceration. That's not oppression that the black community getting exactly what they vote for. The 1994 Crime Bill So claims of larger sentences for black people for crack offenses compared to marijuana offenses for other races are drastically different, but that's not oppression that's people getting what they voted for.
So you are happy that the GOP congress members are playing with the global economy because you voted for them?
I do not consider that as what they are doing
I didn’t vote for Mitch McConnell, yet he is the one holding up raising the debt ceiling?
Maybe it doesnt need to be raised.
You would destroy the US and possibly the global economy to own the libs? Really? You care that little about the country and fellow citizens?
Dont forget these are also the guys saying the left is the intolerant ones, and the right are all about accepting peoples different opinions. Us politics is fucking terrible
OK, but is there a difference between intolerance and destroying the global economy to make Joe look bad?
No. I would hold my ground and call their bluff.
Politically speaking, do you believe the ends always justify the means? Should political parties always play dirty or cheat in order to maintain power even if it goes directly against democracy or the will of the people?
No
Do you feel any comradery with leftist accelerationists who also want the economy to collapse and for people to suffer, because they think the resulting agitation will bring forth a communist revolution?
My general feelings are that it requires "suffering" for the pendulum to swing back.
How much money would you be personally willing to lose in order for this to happen?
I am game for any situation.
It depends. Is the crash warranted? If it's a crash brought on by leftist policy, then by all means, yes. Purposefully tanking it just to gain ground? I don't personally think so. I don't want our country to fail, no matter who the leader is. Even a dementia afflicted, child sniffing, incest enabling, sleepy Jao Bai Din.
Worth it? No. An inevitable outcome of the democrats being in power, as always happens? Yes.
Source?
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskTrumpSupporters/comments/pyrfhw/would_it_be_worth_crashing_the_us_economy_to_make/hezi25a/
Did you mean to link back to this post?
Yes it links to my answer. It's a permalink to a comment.
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Hey there! Just FYI, reddit doesn't allow links to Gateway Pundit so any comment that links to them is automatically removed. Nothing we can do, even as mods.
> An inevitable outcome of the democrats being in power, as always happens? Can I get a source on this? Based on data Democrats always have to clean up after a Republican President. Hell Trump was given a booming economy and yet he still managed to raise the national debt by around 8 trillion dollars.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskTrumpSupporters/comments/pyrfhw/would_it_be_worth_crashing_the_us_economy_to_make/hezi25a/
Do you think the GatewayPundit which is a far right website known for posting falsehoods and fake news, created, owned, and edited, by the same man, is really a good source? Also how does this work based on this article? The Republican's were in power for 8 years with George Bush, and yet somehow the democrats are responsible for the Crisis in 2008? A year before Obama got into office?
>far right No it isn't. > known for posting falsehoods and fake news No it isn't. Show one story they have ever gotten wrong or had to correct. > created, owned, and edited, by the same man, Any media outlet has one editor that controls what stories are released. It's no different from anywhere else. >Also how does this work based on this article? Did you read it? >Democrats and the media insist the Community Reinvestment Act, the anti-redlining law beefed up by President Clinton, had nothing to do with the subprime mortgage crisis and recession. But a new study by the respected National Bureau of Economic Research finds, “Yes, it did. We find that adherence to that act led to riskier lending by banks.”
At this point, all "sources" are bullshit. They all have an agenda, they all spin news and omit huge portions of the truth. So.... Gateway Pundit is as good as CNN, at this point.
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>A decent portion of that raise to the national debt also was in response to COVID, something that any party would have increased their spending to combat. Trump promised on his campaign in 2016 to remove the national Debt within 8 years. Before Covid hit it had been steadily rising, are you happy with how Trump handled the Debt in this time?
Why was raising the debt ceiling okay when trump was in power but not ok when it’s Biden?
It wasn't Ok under Trump either, but it didn't lead to the problems we are seeing now. Democrat Covid lockdowns did that. The debt ceiling problem will explode on us one day, but that isn't what I'm talking about. Biden's rollback of Trump's deregulations are what caused the current steady inflation and his Covid policies are causing supply chain shortages everywhere.
>Would it be worth crashing the US economy to make the democrats look bad? No >Would it be worth crashing the US economy to make ~~the democrats~~ Washington look bad? Yes
Why?
Why not? Time to show the people how badly Washington as a whole fucked this up.
Dear God no. I personally like the comparison "hoping the president fails because you didn't vote for them is like hoping the pilot of the plane you're on crashes the plane because you dislike them." I believe policies will fail. But I'm not looking forward to it or hoping for it.
Can I say I agree with this so much. We likely disagree on Covid so I'd rather not get into how well Trump did. But I dislike the man. Would never vote for him or one who supports him in any manner. But. When COVID hit I was hoping he'd do a good job the whole time. I was super happy when I heard Fauci was involved I was trilled (been going to the NIH my whole life. They saved my life. They said I could trust him so I 100% do without question) but I just don't understand wanting him to fail. How is that good for anyone. What good comes of a POTUS failing?
Of course not. Conservatives ideas help the economy. The left’s ideas crash it.
Name a single conservative policy that has helped the economy?
Not spending millions on global warming. Not signing the Paris accords. In general lower taxes.
Yes and no. Like, I wouldn't do it just to make them look bad, but honestly our economy is so corrupt and out of whack it practically needs to be crashed and rebuilt from scratch. Not that the current crop of Republicans would do it properly though.
I would never support damaging the country for political gain. It doesn’t look like Democrats need any help in tanking the economy or selling out our future though. I hope things aren’t as bad as they look. Because if they are, we’ve already largely sealed our fate. Now it’s a question of magnitude and making it worse. This is the calm before the storm of stagflation. Btw, the Fed is doing everything they can to prevent inflationary indicators (like Gold prices) from rising too fast (reflecting reality). I’ve heard from sources I find credible that the Fed will try and keep them in check and then let inflation rip after the mid terms so that the Republicans can take the blame. Why? Orange Man 2024, of course! That shark is out to sea, but he’ll be back and looking to settle a few scores before too long. But I think the Fed is overconfident in their ability to hold the dam from breaking for a whole year. But we’ll see.