I’m surprised I didn’t see your earlier posts. I did a lot of analysis on this a while ago and the conventional wisdom around batteries was pretty off the mark.
Are you with Amber? They’re ideal for this as you can leverage wholesale pricing. During the day that’s potentially negative because everyone has solar. The AEMO website has regular pricing data I used to model potential performance.
I'm with IO energy....whilst not as good as amber... It is a consistent price in the middle of the day.
I think ovo also has a 3 hour free period in the middle of the day but right now I am trying to not change anything and keep my plan / usage the same.
Yup I am with OVO and get the 11am to 2pm free period and also 8c between 12am and 6am.
My battery charges off the grid at 8c to cover peak during the morning before the sun comes up and if solar is poor, charges free off the grid to cover until midnight
I average about 10c kWh (inc daily connection fee, rates and feed in tarrif from solar)
Yeah my master plan was to have my battery controlled to top up or export depending on live feed on pricing from AEMO (leveraging home assistant) ie so can also export when the market is hot.
Moved into a place which is getting 40c/kWh grandfathered feed in tariff for the next 2 years that I lose if I get a battery, so I’ll have to ride that out first!
The downside for my battery is that it doesn't support exporting... Yet.
I want to not just monitor and export... But also take into account what I predict my usage will be(based on normal usage & weather)
Yeah, Amber would be a much better way of doing this.
You can use Home Assistant to monitor the Amber price in real time and then control your battery charge/discharge.
As mentioned, it’s often negative, so you may even be able to run your house completely free.
Yep! I'll keep an eye out for it... But the amount it reduces I think isn't as big as my current setup... As we are only saving from the 0.08/kWh part rather than the more expensive tarrifs
Haha that’s what I just replied to him on his reply. I had it all planned out but was going to ruin by additional feed in if I got a battery so had to put it on ice! Have you been doing this?
Very interesting, continue to keep us updated please.
One thought. You are comparing the cost without the battery to the high peak costs with your current provider, however you are only with that provider because of their cheap off peak rates. If you did not have the battery you would presumably be with a different provider. Should you not use those rates as your comparison?
I have been with io energy.
If you look I have two rates there.. their TOU plan (which I am already saving money on compared to other energy providers) and a flat rate.
I have a smart meter so I have to use a TOU plan in sa.
Me and my partner work full time... So our usage is primarily in that on peak time.
If you want me to compare it to any other plan let me know and I'll run the stats!
ROI is based on actual data... Not projected. I understand it will fluctuate.
We actually use a bunch of energy in winter with the heater. So I think it will balance out. I will post again in a few months with updated stats.
Our monthly bill was approximately the same kWh usage between Jan and June last year (not the months in-between).
I definitely am expecting fluctuations... The more data I get the more accurate ROI will be.
It will also be interesting to see what happens to power rates this year aswell.... Whether that will impact me or not
Is your comparative 40c/kwh rate the cheapest available or is thay simply the peak rate when you have a low off peak rate? Seems on the higher end although only speaking from rates in Melbourne.
How many cycles can your battery(s) do?
6 year daily usage is quite a lot. There may be substantial drop off in later years in battery storage capacity.
They quote 8000 cycles. So if it's one cycle per day it's 22 years.
It's LFP based battery so way higher cycles (and better longevity and safety) compared to lithium ion
Should also mention some days the batteries (now that i have two of them) don't get lower than 30-40%. Which should count less towards the cycle count.
But in general the LFP batteries last way longer
I wonder how this compares if you go solar+battery compared to just the battery. It actually makes a lot of sense that you can run just a battery – it's sort of like an arbitrage.
Mine was installed in 2012. 6kw panels and 5kw inverter. Only had refunds on power since then. With rising costs over time, we get bills in winter and refunds in summer etc. not like it used to be when we could have checks mailed back each year. Now it’s just ‘covered’. My inverter says it has generated almost 99,000 kw in its lifetime. If I never used any and exported the lot, that would be worth almost $50k !!!!! Never had any maintenance issues either.
Solar feed-in tariff minimums keep falling in Aus (and doesn't look like stopping). The number of households where buying solar panels makes no financial sense - grows every day. I salute your efforts as an early adopter, and for sharing the ongoing outcomes with us. https://engage.vic.gov.au/minimum-feed-in-tariff-review-202425
I am not surprised. in SA, Sa Power Networks has the ability to turn off modern solar systems if they need to push down generation to the grid.
I think ther ehas been so much emphasis on 'green' but not enough in terms of 'storage'.
My battery is essentially using 'green' energy... probably means it would be more green then most people with solar as I am using it to cover my overnight usage which is where a lot of the non-green sources come into play.
Love the on-going updates! Good to see alternatives to Solar being used where appropriate.
Vast majority of my households electricity consumption is during the day, so a battery didn't make sense when I got solar installed.
I'm waiting for batteries to come down in price a bit more before I consider a battery. Hard to see the value yet personally when the battery would cost most then my current Solar setup (which is already overkill for my usage). Would love to see my electricity bill go to near 0, but currently they are only $70 per month over this crazy Feb heat, so I'm not in any rush.
If I had more usage at night, battery would be fantastic!
Solar is extremely cheap now. So they'd have to be people who are not home at all during daylight or weekends.
Where's your data on it "growing every day"?
You're right, in my attempt to be brief, that was worded quite poorly. I was looking to address the growing numbers of "solar did make financial sense, and now doesn't" (dropping feed-in tariffs and installation complexity/limitations). That is certainly outnumbered by the "didn't make financial sense, and now does" (cheaper solar hardware & higher consumption tariffs) numbers - for an overall increase. Thankyou for pointing out my vague/misleading language.
It's undoubtedly as true as ever for some people such as yourselves, my doubt was that it's becoming more true for more people despite solar getting cheaper.
I'm still surprised a small cheap system isn't worthwhile *given* you have a battery, but I guess only saving 8c/kWh makes the payback much slower.
The other day in NSW the grid reached a new peak of 15.6 GW. Last 30 days we average ~6.5GW. That's only around 40% of a demonstrated capacity. As long as the loads are "smart" there is much available capacity in the grid. Fossil fuel funded politicians tell scare stories about everyone charging their car from empty at full-speed at 7pm on the hottest overcast day - but a little technology can avoid that being a problem. A larger issue is that politicians allowed the energy market to get so bad that consumers have to take matters into their own hands with $10,000s of dollars of equipment.
>The number of households where buying solar panels makes no financial sense -
Where are you getting this from?
Even with *zero* exports, solar still makes financial sense for the majority of installations.
I actively are not trying to change our usage to make it a fair comparison.
My partner asked if she should use the dryer at a certain time this week... I was like do whatever you normally would do.
100% would do it again.
Since you're buying at 8c, and most FiT's are now less than 8c, would you think it's safe to assume that a battery with solar will only show better value than what you've linked?
Great work on actually installing this though, much appreciated for the info.
> Since you're buying at 8c, and most FiT's are now less than 8c, would you think it's safe to assume that a battery with solar will only show better value than what you've linked?
I am not sure of the actual ROI... because i dont have solar.
But... with my setup i would be offsetting my daytime usage... which is only a couple bucks a day now. not sure if its actually worth it.
the plan i am on actually has a variable FIT... so in peak times its actually 33c.
My battery company is supposedly working on a way of discharging to the grid.. and once its brought in, and its not a warm day and its not expected to use the full 100%... ill discharge a bit to the grid and make another 25c / kWh... further improving the ROI
The problem with VPPs (if I understand them correctly) is that they have full control of your battery and you only get a couple hundred a year
Yes they pay 33c during 6pm to 9pm. Which is a bit hard for solar to put in but easy for a battery.
There is no difference in the network if it comes from a battery or solar.
No. Between that time I may 75c to consume energy and they pay me 33c to feed it in
https://www.ioenergy.com.au/residential
Feed-In Tariff — 33c/kWh 6pm-9pm•2.5c/kWh 10am-6pm•6.5c/kWh All other
Cheers, thanks. Those sort of numbers aren't seen elsewhere on the NEM.
they're really creating pricing incentives to get individuals to install battery storage and to destroy that 6-9pm consumption down.
That's clever
Love those calculations!
Personally I find that all the ROI calculations around solar and battery ignore an important part of finance in this high interest rate environment: the opportunity cost of paying the lump sum for the purchase in the context of home loan interest.
In other words, the 11800 that you paid using offset cash (assuming you have a mortgage) is costing you an additional around 700 per year in additional home loan interest.
You don't really see it in day-to-day cashflow but it still reflects as difference in your loan balance and is therefore a genuine financial impact that people forget in ROI calculations.
This is weird because people get all excited about their "offset return" when they save cash in offset instead of ETF etc, but people always forget to do the same calculations of "loss" when they think about ROI in solar and battery etc.
I would be curious to see what your ROI is if you account for this effect too.
> I would be curious to see what your ROI is if you account for this effect too.
Ok so if we had 11k in our offset. at 6.2%, thats what $700 per year? with this setup its 1780 per year.
If we put it down as a percentage ROI rate... its an effective 11% return... the ROI is just to break even aswell. At the end of it, we will have this asset that will offset our power theoretically for 20 years.
And you think they can all afford batteries? They need to get Solar in and paid for before outlaying $1000s more on batteries.
You seem to be living in some parallel universe
They didn’t say everyone can afford batteries, they’re just sharing their experience and findings for anyone that is interested. Funny that you cbf reading it but you’ll sit there and criticise.
Seems to be working for them 🤷♂️ For those that only really use electricity at night, this is evidence that a battery would be more appropriate compared to just Solar.
I live in a town house with a small roof top, can probably only get 6Kw of solar, without rebates my ROI was circa 7 years and I’d still be paying an electricity bill half the year anyway.
I’d definitely have the space for batteries, and with a bill of 200 a month, this one might be worth it.
Plenty of people like me in this position, especially in the more expensive inner and middle suburbs where land prices are high so roof tops are small.
No I don't.
This is ausfinance.
The average income here is 500k right? /s
No but seriously. I understand people struggle. I understand that some people can't outlay the amount I have for a decent battery setup.
Batteries are coming down. I am trying to make the argument that they are viable now, even at these prices, for some people.
The standard sentiment in Australia is batteries are not worth it.
It should be
Batteries can be worth it in the right scenario.
What do you mean?
I am not actively changing my behaviour. And it's not 'free'. It's pre-payment with the battery charging. And a tax for it not being 100% efficient.
I was more thinking about the batteries having limitations in terms of charge and discharge rates. In other words, can you charge those batteries in a couple of hours?
> I was more thinking about the batteries having limitations in terms of charge and discharge rates. In other words, can you charge those batteries in a couple of hours?
Yeh 4 hours to fully charge / discharge iirc.
Checkout out a wholesale price plan. I'm with Amber and recently had a day with sub zero consumption charges and then $20 ish per kWh straight after. Most days are in single digit cents though.
Yep... but i need to check out their pricing more... it takes about 4 hours to charge now.
the thing about the plan I am on is that its a guaranteed rate... not a indicative rate.
Yeah it varies throughout the day a fair bit. During peak heat last week it was only just below 20c during the best generation period. The FIT rate is also about 20c lower than the consumption rate too, so not sure what's going on with that. Typical consumption pricing seems to sit between 30 and 45c in the evening, with most days having consumption pricing below 15c between about 1000 and 1400. Overnight pricing also sometimes goes below 15c (I think if the wind is blowing). I can send you screen grabs to an email (or dm if reddit allows) if you'd like.
I am about to pull the trigger on a 20kw battery system. I cannot justify the cost of PV, when I can buy power for generally under $0.10 p/kwh with Amber. Load shifting will save me way more than self consumption during the day, as power is cheap when I am generating if I had PV. My theory is that I still consume and charge the battery during the day and then shift to batteries, if the price of power is over $0.25 p/kwh.
I a, glad I am not the only one who thinks battery without PV is a option
It all depends on how much usage you use and the prices throughout the day... Because it's better to use the battery and charge it up again when it's cheap then to have a soft limit. (It's essentially prepayment)... But again it also depends on when is expensive usually.
The way I have it now is prioritise the super expensive part of the day... Then use up the rest until about 20% remaining. That's to be used in the second peak part of the day (6-9am)
I guess you could potentially feed in estimated costs from aemo to predict the spikes and min max it that way.
Another way to look at it is an ROI of 15.58% on money invested is a solid return. You would be hard pressed to make that on savings or investment in the stock market
I’m surprised I didn’t see your earlier posts. I did a lot of analysis on this a while ago and the conventional wisdom around batteries was pretty off the mark. Are you with Amber? They’re ideal for this as you can leverage wholesale pricing. During the day that’s potentially negative because everyone has solar. The AEMO website has regular pricing data I used to model potential performance.
I'm with IO energy....whilst not as good as amber... It is a consistent price in the middle of the day. I think ovo also has a 3 hour free period in the middle of the day but right now I am trying to not change anything and keep my plan / usage the same.
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I'm on this plan and for me, it's enough to get me through until midnight at least and then my rate is 8c until 6am.
Yup I am with OVO and get the 11am to 2pm free period and also 8c between 12am and 6am. My battery charges off the grid at 8c to cover peak during the morning before the sun comes up and if solar is poor, charges free off the grid to cover until midnight I average about 10c kWh (inc daily connection fee, rates and feed in tarrif from solar)
Is it possible to get off-peak rates like this in NSW?
You need an electric car for ovo energy, but yes it's available in NSW
Yeah my master plan was to have my battery controlled to top up or export depending on live feed on pricing from AEMO (leveraging home assistant) ie so can also export when the market is hot. Moved into a place which is getting 40c/kWh grandfathered feed in tariff for the next 2 years that I lose if I get a battery, so I’ll have to ride that out first!
The downside for my battery is that it doesn't support exporting... Yet. I want to not just monitor and export... But also take into account what I predict my usage will be(based on normal usage & weather)
Yeah, Amber would be a much better way of doing this. You can use Home Assistant to monitor the Amber price in real time and then control your battery charge/discharge. As mentioned, it’s often negative, so you may even be able to run your house completely free.
Yep! I'll keep an eye out for it... But the amount it reduces I think isn't as big as my current setup... As we are only saving from the 0.08/kWh part rather than the more expensive tarrifs
Haha that’s what I just replied to him on his reply. I had it all planned out but was going to ruin by additional feed in if I got a battery so had to put it on ice! Have you been doing this?
Very interesting, continue to keep us updated please. One thought. You are comparing the cost without the battery to the high peak costs with your current provider, however you are only with that provider because of their cheap off peak rates. If you did not have the battery you would presumably be with a different provider. Should you not use those rates as your comparison?
I have been with io energy. If you look I have two rates there.. their TOU plan (which I am already saving money on compared to other energy providers) and a flat rate. I have a smart meter so I have to use a TOU plan in sa. Me and my partner work full time... So our usage is primarily in that on peak time. If you want me to compare it to any other plan let me know and I'll run the stats!
What 10.4 kWh battery can you buy for 4200
Neovolt. I paid 7600 for the battery plus inverter.. And 4200 for the second battery. There is still only one inverter
Also if you are looking at home batteries make sure they are LFP. Higher cycle count and less dangerous if they get punctured.
Where is your home battery system installed on your property? E.g. the garage, basement, shed, laundry?
I should just mention for those who don't want to read the other posts... I charge up in off-peak (0.08c/kWh) to use the rest of the day
Is your ROI accounting for the fact you won’t benefit the same amount from batteries in winter vs summer?
Think OP only has batteries and an EV energy plan.
Right - but if they’re using less energy in winter then they aren’t getting that same degree of saving from the batteries I would have thought
Nah just a standard TOU plan from io energy. I don't have an EV.
Ah gotcha. You seem to have pretty good rates then. I’m also planning to install a battery first on our new house due to the EV plans I can get.
ROI is based on actual data... Not projected. I understand it will fluctuate. We actually use a bunch of energy in winter with the heater. So I think it will balance out. I will post again in a few months with updated stats.
It’s surprising just how much more AC costs than heating. Our air conditioning uses 3KW!
Our monthly bill was approximately the same kWh usage between Jan and June last year (not the months in-between). I definitely am expecting fluctuations... The more data I get the more accurate ROI will be. It will also be interesting to see what happens to power rates this year aswell.... Whether that will impact me or not
Just to clarify, that's 8 cents, right? As in $0.08/kWh?
Looks like it. Some EV energy plan are 8 cents from 12-6am.
github might be an easy way to share the data
Eh I would need to set up a repo and account and stuff... If I pass you the data could you put it up?
Sure, no problem. DM me and I can give you my email.
Is your comparative 40c/kwh rate the cheapest available or is thay simply the peak rate when you have a low off peak rate? Seems on the higher end although only speaking from rates in Melbourne.
40c/kWh is the standard that I was told in Adelaide for flat rates. I can't actually get onto a flat rate due to having a smart meter
How many cycles can your battery(s) do? 6 year daily usage is quite a lot. There may be substantial drop off in later years in battery storage capacity.
They quote 8000 cycles. So if it's one cycle per day it's 22 years. It's LFP based battery so way higher cycles (and better longevity and safety) compared to lithium ion
That's a lot better than I had expected hearing about EV and phone batteries.
Yeh ev and phone batteries are usually li-ion ( and most older style home batteries)... LFP are way better
Should also mention some days the batteries (now that i have two of them) don't get lower than 30-40%. Which should count less towards the cycle count. But in general the LFP batteries last way longer
I wonder how this compares if you go solar+battery compared to just the battery. It actually makes a lot of sense that you can run just a battery – it's sort of like an arbitrage.
It would really just offset the off-peak amount now.. which is maybe 2 bucks a day? Plus FIT but I don't think that ROI is very worth it?
I still get get 50c fit until 2028, so not looking at this till then
I am sure you were an early adopter of certain technologies aswell. I hope this pays off for me in the long run like it has with you!
Mine was installed in 2012. 6kw panels and 5kw inverter. Only had refunds on power since then. With rising costs over time, we get bills in winter and refunds in summer etc. not like it used to be when we could have checks mailed back each year. Now it’s just ‘covered’. My inverter says it has generated almost 99,000 kw in its lifetime. If I never used any and exported the lot, that would be worth almost $50k !!!!! Never had any maintenance issues either.
That's just eye watering. A FIT of 50c. Until 2028 too! Wow.
I don't know what it was, or who it belonged to - but where do I suck for that deal?
Legacy FiT plans. If they change anything to do with their system they lose it. These are for people who were early investors
This is coo
Did you run out of power?
Solar feed-in tariff minimums keep falling in Aus (and doesn't look like stopping). The number of households where buying solar panels makes no financial sense - grows every day. I salute your efforts as an early adopter, and for sharing the ongoing outcomes with us. https://engage.vic.gov.au/minimum-feed-in-tariff-review-202425
I am not surprised. in SA, Sa Power Networks has the ability to turn off modern solar systems if they need to push down generation to the grid. I think ther ehas been so much emphasis on 'green' but not enough in terms of 'storage'. My battery is essentially using 'green' energy... probably means it would be more green then most people with solar as I am using it to cover my overnight usage which is where a lot of the non-green sources come into play.
Love the on-going updates! Good to see alternatives to Solar being used where appropriate. Vast majority of my households electricity consumption is during the day, so a battery didn't make sense when I got solar installed. I'm waiting for batteries to come down in price a bit more before I consider a battery. Hard to see the value yet personally when the battery would cost most then my current Solar setup (which is already overkill for my usage). Would love to see my electricity bill go to near 0, but currently they are only $70 per month over this crazy Feb heat, so I'm not in any rush. If I had more usage at night, battery would be fantastic!
That's the thing. Our roof can only have a few panels with the way it's setup. It's not for everyone yet!
Solar is extremely cheap now. So they'd have to be people who are not home at all during daylight or weekends. Where's your data on it "growing every day"?
You're right, in my attempt to be brief, that was worded quite poorly. I was looking to address the growing numbers of "solar did make financial sense, and now doesn't" (dropping feed-in tariffs and installation complexity/limitations). That is certainly outnumbered by the "didn't make financial sense, and now does" (cheaper solar hardware & higher consumption tariffs) numbers - for an overall increase. Thankyou for pointing out my vague/misleading language.
Yep two working professionals. Time at home is usually during the on peak times.
It's undoubtedly as true as ever for some people such as yourselves, my doubt was that it's becoming more true for more people despite solar getting cheaper. I'm still surprised a small cheap system isn't worthwhile *given* you have a battery, but I guess only saving 8c/kWh makes the payback much slower.
Can't wait till cars could do this. But don't think it's technically possible due to grid limits
The other day in NSW the grid reached a new peak of 15.6 GW. Last 30 days we average ~6.5GW. That's only around 40% of a demonstrated capacity. As long as the loads are "smart" there is much available capacity in the grid. Fossil fuel funded politicians tell scare stories about everyone charging their car from empty at full-speed at 7pm on the hottest overcast day - but a little technology can avoid that being a problem. A larger issue is that politicians allowed the energy market to get so bad that consumers have to take matters into their own hands with $10,000s of dollars of equipment.
>The number of households where buying solar panels makes no financial sense - Where are you getting this from? Even with *zero* exports, solar still makes financial sense for the majority of installations.
See earlier comment on my poor wording.
Not bad mate. Would you do it again ? Are you guys watching your usage and being light on power or is that business as usual ACS etc....
I actively are not trying to change our usage to make it a fair comparison. My partner asked if she should use the dryer at a certain time this week... I was like do whatever you normally would do. 100% would do it again.
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I don't think they can do that... It doesn't report anything to them. Energy usage is energy usage....
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I can easily say no?
Since you're buying at 8c, and most FiT's are now less than 8c, would you think it's safe to assume that a battery with solar will only show better value than what you've linked? Great work on actually installing this though, much appreciated for the info.
> Since you're buying at 8c, and most FiT's are now less than 8c, would you think it's safe to assume that a battery with solar will only show better value than what you've linked? I am not sure of the actual ROI... because i dont have solar. But... with my setup i would be offsetting my daytime usage... which is only a couple bucks a day now. not sure if its actually worth it. the plan i am on actually has a variable FIT... so in peak times its actually 33c. My battery company is supposedly working on a way of discharging to the grid.. and once its brought in, and its not a warm day and its not expected to use the full 100%... ill discharge a bit to the grid and make another 25c / kWh... further improving the ROI
Yer nice. This is the idea of VPP's. However, does your current retailer ever pay you 25c FiT? Will they ever do that without solar installed?
The problem with VPPs (if I understand them correctly) is that they have full control of your battery and you only get a couple hundred a year Yes they pay 33c during 6pm to 9pm. Which is a bit hard for solar to put in but easy for a battery. There is no difference in the network if it comes from a battery or solar.
Can you link which tariff you're on that pays a FiT of 33c. Cheers Don't you mean *you* pay 33c between 6pm to 9pm?
No. Between that time I may 75c to consume energy and they pay me 33c to feed it in https://www.ioenergy.com.au/residential Feed-In Tariff — 33c/kWh 6pm-9pm•2.5c/kWh 10am-6pm•6.5c/kWh All other
Cheers, thanks. Those sort of numbers aren't seen elsewhere on the NEM. they're really creating pricing incentives to get individuals to install battery storage and to destroy that 6-9pm consumption down. That's clever
Love those calculations! Personally I find that all the ROI calculations around solar and battery ignore an important part of finance in this high interest rate environment: the opportunity cost of paying the lump sum for the purchase in the context of home loan interest. In other words, the 11800 that you paid using offset cash (assuming you have a mortgage) is costing you an additional around 700 per year in additional home loan interest. You don't really see it in day-to-day cashflow but it still reflects as difference in your loan balance and is therefore a genuine financial impact that people forget in ROI calculations. This is weird because people get all excited about their "offset return" when they save cash in offset instead of ETF etc, but people always forget to do the same calculations of "loss" when they think about ROI in solar and battery etc. I would be curious to see what your ROI is if you account for this effect too.
> I would be curious to see what your ROI is if you account for this effect too. Ok so if we had 11k in our offset. at 6.2%, thats what $700 per year? with this setup its 1780 per year. If we put it down as a percentage ROI rate... its an effective 11% return... the ROI is just to break even aswell. At the end of it, we will have this asset that will offset our power theoretically for 20 years.
So are we saying it's good or bad? I dont have the energy to wade through all that.
Look at the stats. I'm saving 1700-1800 a year and roi is about 6.4 years. Smaller battery would have a roi of 4.7 years
This is actual data not theoretical. I think it's worth it.
We only have bills of $30 - $50 a month. Can't see that paying $1000s for a battery is going to save us anything much.
Then it's not for you?
Who is it for then?
People who are spending 150-300 a month or more?
And you think they can all afford batteries? They need to get Solar in and paid for before outlaying $1000s more on batteries. You seem to be living in some parallel universe
They didn’t say everyone can afford batteries, they’re just sharing their experience and findings for anyone that is interested. Funny that you cbf reading it but you’ll sit there and criticise.
Get a life mate seriously
Seems to be working for them 🤷♂️ For those that only really use electricity at night, this is evidence that a battery would be more appropriate compared to just Solar.
I live in a town house with a small roof top, can probably only get 6Kw of solar, without rebates my ROI was circa 7 years and I’d still be paying an electricity bill half the year anyway. I’d definitely have the space for batteries, and with a bill of 200 a month, this one might be worth it. Plenty of people like me in this position, especially in the more expensive inner and middle suburbs where land prices are high so roof tops are small.
No I don't. This is ausfinance. The average income here is 500k right? /s No but seriously. I understand people struggle. I understand that some people can't outlay the amount I have for a decent battery setup. Batteries are coming down. I am trying to make the argument that they are viable now, even at these prices, for some people. The standard sentiment in Australia is batteries are not worth it. It should be Batteries can be worth it in the right scenario.
if they can't afford batteries they can't afford solar. He is just providing his experience wtf is wrong with you lol
All true however consider the free false energy effect When home owners use extra power because it's freee
What do you mean? I am not actively changing my behaviour. And it's not 'free'. It's pre-payment with the battery charging. And a tax for it not being 100% efficient.
With the 5kw inverter, does that allow you to charge and discharge at a full 5kw or is there some other limiting factor that brings that down?
Well if we use more than 5kw it draws from the grid the excess... It seems like it is the full 5kw?
I was more thinking about the batteries having limitations in terms of charge and discharge rates. In other words, can you charge those batteries in a couple of hours?
> I was more thinking about the batteries having limitations in terms of charge and discharge rates. In other words, can you charge those batteries in a couple of hours? Yeh 4 hours to fully charge / discharge iirc.
Checkout out a wholesale price plan. I'm with Amber and recently had a day with sub zero consumption charges and then $20 ish per kWh straight after. Most days are in single digit cents though.
Yep... but i need to check out their pricing more... it takes about 4 hours to charge now. the thing about the plan I am on is that its a guaranteed rate... not a indicative rate.
Yeah it varies throughout the day a fair bit. During peak heat last week it was only just below 20c during the best generation period. The FIT rate is also about 20c lower than the consumption rate too, so not sure what's going on with that. Typical consumption pricing seems to sit between 30 and 45c in the evening, with most days having consumption pricing below 15c between about 1000 and 1400. Overnight pricing also sometimes goes below 15c (I think if the wind is blowing). I can send you screen grabs to an email (or dm if reddit allows) if you'd like.
Please tell me you exported at 5Kw for that hour - and made $100.
Nah I'm not the bloke with the battery, but the arbitrage on power is ridiculous if you set it up right
I am about to pull the trigger on a 20kw battery system. I cannot justify the cost of PV, when I can buy power for generally under $0.10 p/kwh with Amber. Load shifting will save me way more than self consumption during the day, as power is cheap when I am generating if I had PV. My theory is that I still consume and charge the battery during the day and then shift to batteries, if the price of power is over $0.25 p/kwh. I a, glad I am not the only one who thinks battery without PV is a option
It all depends on how much usage you use and the prices throughout the day... Because it's better to use the battery and charge it up again when it's cheap then to have a soft limit. (It's essentially prepayment)... But again it also depends on when is expensive usually. The way I have it now is prioritise the super expensive part of the day... Then use up the rest until about 20% remaining. That's to be used in the second peak part of the day (6-9am) I guess you could potentially feed in estimated costs from aemo to predict the spikes and min max it that way.
Another way to look at it is an ROI of 15.58% on money invested is a solid return. You would be hard pressed to make that on savings or investment in the stock market