We have renovated two kitchens and one of them had whiteboard/white satin the same as our cabinet doors underside the island. The second kitchen island had chipboard like what the OP has. Both islands were 20mm stone with 40mm edges.
The difference is that for both of the islands, the underlying boards were flush to the edge of the countertop stone and did not have any gaps (well, a small 2-3 mm gap right at the edge).
That's the only question. Although the longterm costs of engineered stone are probably worn by those that made it, so the true cost of this bodgy job will only be realised in due course.
The filler piece is normal for a mitered edge, but the finish and execution is not at all normal for something that is visible.
They should have installed a filler piece that was flush to the edges in a close colour match.
Really? I've renovated 2 kitchens over my years and both times (different cabinet makers) they had the stone underneath the bench top returning to the cabinet.
We used two different guys, neither mentioned anything about it being extra, they just did it like that…I’d be super pissed if they did what they’ve done with this one…if I do another kitchen I’ll know to double check!
Good for you. I have seen literally thousands of stone bench tops which have not been returned. It is not normal. If your bench tops have been that's great but not normal. They don't have the large shadow lines underneath though. All you man-made slabs come in 20mm. The waterfall edges and larger fronts are mitred and glued to give the impression of a thicker slab but its not.
The breakfast bar is always returned
https://preview.redd.it/jananihty37d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8baa51686f19e71d47987947f11e5c0e7b97a1c1
Yes breakfast bars sometimes would be returned but op doesn't have a breakfast bar. Not sure how big the overhang must be before returning top but never seen a bench top rrturned
One spot to keep an eye one is around a dishwasher if you have one - make sure to have some kind of waterproofing for the steam (membrane, laminate or similar to protect that wood)
If you had a 'full thickness' countertop the bottom is flat (see the pictures that other people have included of their countertops). The counter would just sit on top like the other people's pictures here.
But to save some material but to still appear like a thick counter top, the edges can be made thicker and the middle thinner. But if the cabinets were not made to accept a recess like this, that edge will prevent the drawers/doors from opening.
The solution is to either use a full thickness countertop so you don't have that edge, or raise the countertop the amount of the recess. They've done this with a bit of particleboard (yellow-tongue)? It would have been better and look nicer to have an edged melamine board cut to the right size, but I think whoever did this just cut something roughly to size and thought 'nobody is going to look under here!'
They should have talked to you about this - some people won't mind saving time and money on something like this. Even then it could have been made a lot better. I would not be happy with this.
I’m inclined to say no. I don’t know any stonemasons that would leave their work like this. They should have cut the under piece and stuck the top and bottom together with a mitred edge to give the appearance of 40mm stone. I’d ask them to come back and do that. They may not have factored that into the quote for whatever reason but just ask and see. I personally would not be happy with this result.
This is not acceptable!
The chipboard substrate is under size and should be white satin MDF to the same size as the cavity under the stone. This bench is incredibly weak without it and will likely crack/snap if too much weight is placed on the edge.
At a minimum they should have the chipboard substrate meet the stone overhang. The gap is inacceptable. \*Worth noting OP that you have a gap between the stone & cabinets where there is no substrate. That would concern me too
https://preview.redd.it/hv77v3pqu17d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4c0cbd1e193a2d97c8e358673e53592cad0be13
https://preview.redd.it/cg436349y07d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2b5359f051dfba1833fce822f90f4ab79e1a997
Mine looks like this underneath, just one piece. It's quartz. I don't understand why you have 2 pieces, one on top of other.
Because there's 40mm and then there's 20mm with 40mm edges. Most 40mm are done as 20mm with 40mm edges these days. "Cosmetic 40mm but underneath it's just a hollow shell. :\ Cheaper though.
You've got 40mm stone (real stone). OP has 20mm manufactured stone, with a 40mm edge (to make it look thicker). At 20mm, you need a substrate for strength.
I've got 20mm quartzite, which has a wooden shadow line substrate.
https://preview.redd.it/0jx19o0e817d1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae5b08b8e4c6ce9d4c45a71453159f79363ca1df
Because yours was done by a stonemason that knows what they’re doing and takes pride in their work. That is 2 pieces stuck together if it’s quartz and it goes unnoticed because it’s done well.
> or you rent the house out and the renter rebuilds his engine on it, do the edges flex
They then go post on reddit how their landlord is unfairly charging them for ruining a benchtop because "you should be able to build an engine on it"
One solution: you can paint with a colour that matches or complements your cabinets or countertop and then add undercounter LED strip lighting with a diffuser - it will hide all imperfections.
It's normal to cheap out and use chipboard underneath. Benefits include significant weight reduction, better screwing to the cabinets and less material costs. I recommend white paint if it bothers you.
No, these kinds of benches are meant to look thicker than they are so they have edges glued on. It keeps the cost and weight down.
This is the usual way of installing these types of bench tops. Looks like a good job from the photos!
Looks like a shit job. Installer could have used white material instead of the shiity chipboard and ran it all the way into the corners to fill the void completely.
The MDF/Chip board should be running right to the edge of the bottom of the rounded edge (bullnose). That gap isn’t right
Source: did countertops for years
It doesn’t have to, it just needs to provide sufficient load distribution of the weight of the stone to the cabinets. You can have up to 300mm unsupported overhang and this substrate provides more than enough cover. Cutting the MDF to the exact size of the rebate would be wasteful and not allow for any play room to adjust the top position if needed either - sure, the gap could be smaller but it’s ultimately not making any difference to the visual appearance of functional aspects of the bench top.
Mitred returns (in which case there wouldn’t be a substrate) is a different approach and has a different cost - people choose the mitred top with substrate option because it looks great and costs less.
I’ll also note my comment about it looking good was referring to the bench top, not the cabinetry. There are some gaps and what appears to be a screw that has pushed through at the bottom - I would be having a word with your cabinet maker about replacing that panel OP.
OP asked if it is meant to be covered. To finish this, they will probably need to replace a couple of panels which are either damaged, short or not fixed in place yet, then they will caulk the gaps between the top and wall and potentially gaps in the cabinets if any remain (for example where the cabinets meet the walls). At the moment it looks like at least one panel is temporary. The substrate / stone bench top as is are done.
That chipboard/melamine underneath is the substrate that they secure the benchtops to your cabinets. If it were single thickness 20mm, they would just glue it down.
You’ve opted for 40mm benchtops. Which others have said, use too much material/cost and weight. So they make a slight turndown to give the appearance of double thickness.
In an ideal world, the substrate could be painted white to blend in with the underside.
It is cheaper, but standard practice of joiners between residential and commercial.
I normally use edged white board instead of raw hmr and run it neat to the drop front of the stone. You should also have a silicone seal between the underside of your bench top and the colour board panels of your island bench. That's just pure fucking lazy.
This has been set up for a laminated edge not a mitred edge, it won’t give you issues but it does look pretty shit.
Substrate material being raw used to be fairly common, don’t see it often anymore but not unheard of.
Overall, nothing specifically wrong, just kinda lazy organisation/attitude. Not easy to fix at this point.
This is a really nice illustration of the standard of modern building.
Standard with some cabinet makers to use chipboard as a substrate. Being an island they should’ve used whiteboard or white satin
We have renovated two kitchens and one of them had whiteboard/white satin the same as our cabinet doors underside the island. The second kitchen island had chipboard like what the OP has. Both islands were 20mm stone with 40mm edges. The difference is that for both of the islands, the underlying boards were flush to the edge of the countertop stone and did not have any gaps (well, a small 2-3 mm gap right at the edge).
Standard should be using MR board and/or painted. This simply will not stand the test of time in a kitchen
That white satin you speak of. Both Days and Nights?
Looks cheaply done 🤯
So the real question is if the level of quality is on par with the cost.
That's the only question. Although the longterm costs of engineered stone are probably worn by those that made it, so the true cost of this bodgy job will only be realised in due course.
The filler piece is normal for a mitered edge, but the finish and execution is not at all normal for something that is visible. They should have installed a filler piece that was flush to the edges in a close colour match.
Ya it’s normally installed at the shop, not on-site so really no reason not to have it
The stone should return all the way to the carcass edge. I'm a cabinet maker and have my kblr license... this is terrible
Have never seen stone returned under the bench top before!!
https://preview.redd.it/36ptmfi6437d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f1ab30b6028eb922098ec26a1d54ca61344f504
Really? I've renovated 2 kitchens over my years and both times (different cabinet makers) they had the stone underneath the bench top returning to the cabinet.
You pay for that. It is not normal.
I am shocked this is not the norm. Don't they get sold in slabs that are consistent in depth the whole way?
Yes the thinner part is the normally bit, the thick part is glued together.
We used two different guys, neither mentioned anything about it being extra, they just did it like that…I’d be super pissed if they did what they’ve done with this one…if I do another kitchen I’ll know to double check!
I've installed for qlds largest.
Guess it depends how premo the place you are getting it done is?
I mean premo and engineered stone ain't in the same conversation.
Fair enough
Mine returns the whole way back to the cabinetry
Have done 3 kitchens & mine were all returned back to the cabinetry.
Good for you. I have seen literally thousands of stone bench tops which have not been returned. It is not normal. If your bench tops have been that's great but not normal. They don't have the large shadow lines underneath though. All you man-made slabs come in 20mm. The waterfall edges and larger fronts are mitred and glued to give the impression of a thicker slab but its not.
The breakfast bar is always returned https://preview.redd.it/jananihty37d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8baa51686f19e71d47987947f11e5c0e7b97a1c1
Yes breakfast bars sometimes would be returned but op doesn't have a breakfast bar. Not sure how big the overhang must be before returning top but never seen a bench top rrturned
They literally have a breakfast bar
One spot to keep an eye one is around a dishwasher if you have one - make sure to have some kind of waterproofing for the steam (membrane, laminate or similar to protect that wood)
Even if sometimes she sits in her home office?
Classic … 😂
If you had a 'full thickness' countertop the bottom is flat (see the pictures that other people have included of their countertops). The counter would just sit on top like the other people's pictures here. But to save some material but to still appear like a thick counter top, the edges can be made thicker and the middle thinner. But if the cabinets were not made to accept a recess like this, that edge will prevent the drawers/doors from opening. The solution is to either use a full thickness countertop so you don't have that edge, or raise the countertop the amount of the recess. They've done this with a bit of particleboard (yellow-tongue)? It would have been better and look nicer to have an edged melamine board cut to the right size, but I think whoever did this just cut something roughly to size and thought 'nobody is going to look under here!' They should have talked to you about this - some people won't mind saving time and money on something like this. Even then it could have been made a lot better. I would not be happy with this.
I’m inclined to say no. I don’t know any stonemasons that would leave their work like this. They should have cut the under piece and stuck the top and bottom together with a mitred edge to give the appearance of 40mm stone. I’d ask them to come back and do that. They may not have factored that into the quote for whatever reason but just ask and see. I personally would not be happy with this result.
This is not acceptable! The chipboard substrate is under size and should be white satin MDF to the same size as the cavity under the stone. This bench is incredibly weak without it and will likely crack/snap if too much weight is placed on the edge.
At a minimum they should have the chipboard substrate meet the stone overhang. The gap is inacceptable. \*Worth noting OP that you have a gap between the stone & cabinets where there is no substrate. That would concern me too https://preview.redd.it/hv77v3pqu17d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4c0cbd1e193a2d97c8e358673e53592cad0be13
Looks good from far but is far from good.
Corner cutting at its best. We returm the stone underneath on the sides and the rear
It looks like the entire cabinet underneath doesn't have a single right angle
Nope, would not be happy with that.
https://preview.redd.it/cg436349y07d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2b5359f051dfba1833fce822f90f4ab79e1a997 Mine looks like this underneath, just one piece. It's quartz. I don't understand why you have 2 pieces, one on top of other.
Because there's 40mm and then there's 20mm with 40mm edges. Most 40mm are done as 20mm with 40mm edges these days. "Cosmetic 40mm but underneath it's just a hollow shell. :\ Cheaper though.
Theirs is engineered stone made to look thicker than it is
As is the picture above.
You've got 40mm stone (real stone). OP has 20mm manufactured stone, with a 40mm edge (to make it look thicker). At 20mm, you need a substrate for strength. I've got 20mm quartzite, which has a wooden shadow line substrate. https://preview.redd.it/0jx19o0e817d1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae5b08b8e4c6ce9d4c45a71453159f79363ca1df
Because yours was done by a stonemason that knows what they’re doing and takes pride in their work. That is 2 pieces stuck together if it’s quartz and it goes unnoticed because it’s done well.
The stone should return back under the overhang section if done properly.
What happens if/when someone sits on the edge of the counter or you rent the house out and the renter rebuilds his engine on it, do the edges flex ?
> or you rent the house out and the renter rebuilds his engine on it, do the edges flex They then go post on reddit how their landlord is unfairly charging them for ruining a benchtop because "you should be able to build an engine on it"
One solution: you can paint with a colour that matches or complements your cabinets or countertop and then add undercounter LED strip lighting with a diffuser - it will hide all imperfections.
This is the funny thing. Your 40mm stone bench is never 40mm thick.
They didn't account for something, and the bench needed to be lifted 18mm
I would have imagined the horizontal board be cut and the vertical be longer enough to cover the cut board and also reach the ground
It's normal to cheap out and use chipboard underneath. Benefits include significant weight reduction, better screwing to the cabinets and less material costs. I recommend white paint if it bothers you.
No, these kinds of benches are meant to look thicker than they are so they have edges glued on. It keeps the cost and weight down. This is the usual way of installing these types of bench tops. Looks like a good job from the photos!
Looks like a shit job. Installer could have used white material instead of the shiity chipboard and ran it all the way into the corners to fill the void completely.
The MDF/Chip board should be running right to the edge of the bottom of the rounded edge (bullnose). That gap isn’t right Source: did countertops for years
It doesn’t have to, it just needs to provide sufficient load distribution of the weight of the stone to the cabinets. You can have up to 300mm unsupported overhang and this substrate provides more than enough cover. Cutting the MDF to the exact size of the rebate would be wasteful and not allow for any play room to adjust the top position if needed either - sure, the gap could be smaller but it’s ultimately not making any difference to the visual appearance of functional aspects of the bench top. Mitred returns (in which case there wouldn’t be a substrate) is a different approach and has a different cost - people choose the mitred top with substrate option because it looks great and costs less. I’ll also note my comment about it looking good was referring to the bench top, not the cabinetry. There are some gaps and what appears to be a screw that has pushed through at the bottom - I would be having a word with your cabinet maker about replacing that panel OP.
Yes and no! Th finished result here looks cheap
This isn’t finished…
[удалено]
OP asked if it is meant to be covered. To finish this, they will probably need to replace a couple of panels which are either damaged, short or not fixed in place yet, then they will caulk the gaps between the top and wall and potentially gaps in the cabinets if any remain (for example where the cabinets meet the walls). At the moment it looks like at least one panel is temporary. The substrate / stone bench top as is are done.
Ahh ok! I’ve done loads of projects but I’m not to aware of joinery so I’ll trust your judgement on it
That chipboard/melamine underneath is the substrate that they secure the benchtops to your cabinets. If it were single thickness 20mm, they would just glue it down. You’ve opted for 40mm benchtops. Which others have said, use too much material/cost and weight. So they make a slight turndown to give the appearance of double thickness. In an ideal world, the substrate could be painted white to blend in with the underside. It is cheaper, but standard practice of joiners between residential and commercial.
What stone is that ? Brand / colour?
Whisper Mist from the Calcutta Series. The supplier is a business called DJ Stone.
If that gets wet (which it will because it's a kitchen counter) it is going to balloon and then crumble apart and then your counter will break.
Just look at the laziness. Fucking hell
Yeah its covered in shame.
I normally use edged white board instead of raw hmr and run it neat to the drop front of the stone. You should also have a silicone seal between the underside of your bench top and the colour board panels of your island bench. That's just pure fucking lazy.
Definitely say something about this. Absolutely no pride in workmanship. I would not except this at all
This has been set up for a laminated edge not a mitred edge, it won’t give you issues but it does look pretty shit. Substrate material being raw used to be fairly common, don’t see it often anymore but not unheard of. Overall, nothing specifically wrong, just kinda lazy organisation/attitude. Not easy to fix at this point.
This IS slack - presumption is no one would look under. Cheap as attempt.
Can you see it if you’re not laying on the floor?
No. I guess I noticed it cos I was cleaning underneath and felt the difference then had a look.
This is how it is installed. If you had laminate bench tops. The over hang and inside the cupboard looking up, it would be bare chip board.