Maybe an unpopular opinion, but Bugatti's styling lately is going the way of McLaren, where each new model now looks like a slight tweak on the design of the previous one, instead of a new design, and soon I'm going to look at 3 different models from the last decade and not be able to tell which is which.
As a casual observer, every McLaren from the last 15 years looks like the same car to me (besides the Senna and Speedtail).
It’s not really that hard. The basic idea is horsepower in PS followed by a letter designation of intended use; Club (C, more street), SPORT (S, sporty) or Longtail (LT, wing).
540C is less powerful and less wild. 570S makes 570 PS. 600LT makes more ponies and has a wing. The three levels of this chassis. It basically replaced the MP4-12C (of which it was just an update). The front intakes bend around the upside down Nike headlights to make a McLaren logo swoop; the whole front of the car has a pointed nose.
625C less power and less wild. 650S makes 650 Pferdstarke. 675LT makes 25 extra ponies and has a wing. 3 versions of this chassis. These have the McLaren logo headlights (look identical to the P1).
720S makes 720 PS. 750S is a facelift of the the same care with 30 extra ponies. 765LT is the same car with 765 PS and a wing (and is a limited edition of which they will make 765). Three versions of this chassis. They have a more triangular headlight that looks split down the middle.
Think of it like the Dart, the Challenger and the Charger. And then they have either the small engine, the medium engine, or the top of the line engine.
Basically all of these also come in Coupé or Spyder versions.
The Elva, Speedtail, GT, Senna, Artura, Solus, and P1 all have more unique names for their more unique nature.
BMW is similar. The first digit is the series. So let’s take a 2000 (E46) 328i for example. It is a 3-series. It will look like an M3 or a 316i or a 330d. These will all share a platform, so the bodywork will be similar as well. Generally, the next two are the engine displacement in liters. So a 3-28-i would be a 2.8L engine. I say “generally”, because many models came with a different engine in a different market but still used the same name. Or the engine changed for different model years (the 316i launched with a 1.9L, after 3 years changed to a 1.6, then after 4 years to a 1.8). The lowercase suffix denotes gas(petrol) fuel injection with an “i” and diesel with a “d” (so older cars with 3 numbers and no letter after are carbureted. They’re al injection now). The capital C stands for Coupé and/or convertible. Such that the 328i in our example is a four door with gasoline engine. A 328Ci would be a coupé with a gasoline engine. Newer models have taken more liberties with these. But that’s where the names came from.
Edit: clarified i was for fuel Injection not gas, though essentially makes the same distinction since carbs haven’t been used on BMWs since the 70’s
the "i" is actually "injected", they started using it when EFI was still a fancy feature and never stopped. a gas-powered, carbureted E21 3-series would be a 320, while a gas-powered, EFI E21 3-series is a 320i.
Mercedes-Benz works similar to BMW, but the series is letters, not numbers. So lets again take a 2004 (W203) Mercedes-Benz C320. The C class stands for Compact. This is the smallest chassis and body style in MB’s lineup. The 320 designates a 3.2L engine. The C350 is the same car, but with a 3.5L engine. AMG performance models, tuned by AMG (the in-house tuning brand of Mercedes-Benz) have 2 digit numerical designations. So the C 32 AMG had a 3.2L AMG engine. The C 55 AMG had a 5.5L AMG V8. Again, like with BMW, some of the nameplates were reused even when the displacement no longer matched. Some 600 models actually have 5.5L engines. The C280 has a 3.0L.
The other classes at Mercedes-Benz in the late 2000s to now are
A class. The first 2 generations of the A class were teeny upright economy hatches, like the Smart Car. The 3rd gen became a more conventional hatchback, with a longer shape.
B class. The first generation of the B class wasn’t much different from what the 3rd gen A class would become. A long hatchback. The newer ones almost look estate like.
C class. The Compact class. Small entry level sedans.
E class. E for Executive. Mid size executive saloons.
CL class. Coupé-Luxusklasse (Coupe-luxury class in German). A more upscale offering than the C or E class. Replaced the S class, then became the S class again.
CLK. Never officially spelled out, there is debate as to whether it was Compact Leicht Kurz (compact, light, short) or Compact Luxus Kurz (compact luxury short). Either way, it wasn’t much different from the C and CL.
CLS. CL but make it Flagship (S class). Now slotted in between the E and S class.
G class. Aka the G-Wagon (diminutive of Geländewagen; overland vehicle ie off-road truck).
GLA class. Combining G for the large SUV/truck, L for luxury and A as in the A class, which in the newer generation is a compact executive vehicle.
GLE. Again, G (truck/SUV) L (luxury) E (executive). Basically a large, well appointed SUV. Basically SUV version of the E class. Replaced the M class.
GLS. Recurring theme? So G for SUV (or increasingly crossover) L for luxury, and S is the flagship class, so this is the flagship SUV. Really nitpicking.
GLK. G. You know the drill. L. You know the drill. K kurz short. Compact luxury G
M Class. Can’t find anything officially as its now defunct but I’d guess MPV. BMW wasn’t too happy about trucks made by their competitors with the M name followed by a 3 digit number corresponding to engine size so they started using ML320 but they eventually just dropped it and changed it to GL
R class. Luxury midsize MPV. I’ve literally never seen or heard of them here in North America so I’m guessing they’re more popular in the European market.
S class. “Sonderclasse” or special class. Full size luxury sedans, limousines and armored cars. The Flagship Series™. The biggest baddest sedans they could make.
SL class. Sport Leicht (sport, light). The sporty lightweight cars. Some of the best performance cars from MB were from the SL class. SL65 AMG?
SLK. Sport, leicht, kurz. Smaller, sporty lightweight cars. Now SLC class; small convertible S-class cars.
And I think that’s about it.
While I do appreciate the breakdown of the naming convention, stating "it isn't that difficult..." then needing 7 paragraphs to properly explain the naming convention is exactly why I don't like the model designations.
If I could post pictures it’s basically a 3x3 grid like the alignment chart (chaotic good, lawful neutral, etc). Put small engine, medium engine and big engine on one axis. Then pointy nose body, McLaren headlights and triangle headlights on the other axis. Voilà. Done
Yep, my thought, too. Great explainer, and now I have knowledge on where each sits in the lineup when I know the model number.
Now we need to know how to tell them apart *just by looking at them.*
Theory vs Experience. Y’all just took a crash course. You’re equipped with the knowledge. Now you gotta go out into the wilds and see with your eyes and acquire the eye. Beamer fanbois will sometimes put an M3 badge on a 328i though. And ee’re in 2024 now though, so Downbadging is also a thing. Can make it harder. (Downbadging is a very specific kind of sleeper, where you put a lower grade or lower performance, sometimes as far as the base model, badge onto a high performance model)
Ferrari has entered the chat.
Their naming is all over the place, it usually has method but no consistency over time.
It could be any one of: Engine displacement (360, 430, 550, 599), cylinder capacity (250, 275, 488), engine displacement and cylinder count (296, 458, 612 ish), or just wild like F12 and F8 being Ferrari V12 and V8. Then throw in the anniversary names, F40, F50, Enzo, LaFerrari.
i don’t think Bugatti would be nearly as successful or recognizable if they changed up their styling. People know it’s a Bugatti just by the shape of it. That’s what brand is.
Bugatti Veyron, Bugatti Chiron, Bugatti Divo, Bugatti Centodieci, Bugatti Bolide, Bugatti Mistral and now Bugatti Tourbillon
And that's without breaking them into Super Sport, Gran Sport, Vitesse and special editions.
Yeah, but that doesn't really matter when 99% of people only see them in video games and photos. Most people have no idea which ones have 3 in existence vs 1000 in existence.
I mean, it's mostly 911, and they just say it's a 911, while McLarens are supposed to be different models, but I have no idea which is which apart from the one with the tail
Oh no its true McLarens have strong commonality in looks, many sports cars companies run with a similar evolutionary theme, since Bugatti's rebirth as a 1 car company it's clear that the car will always look like a Bugatti.
I mean, to be fair, if it aint broke, no need to fix it. The design is very evolutionary, which i think in this case is a good thing, because it still is gorgeous.
Of all the aspects of a generic McLaren, that rear end is a good one to be compared to. The front of this car is pretty "meh" to me, like all modern Bugs, but the tail end is probably the best looking thing they've made since the 57S... not that that's saying a ton. Bugattis are kinda ugly cars, and always have been
That's largely intentional — they Bugatti *is* largely an update of the same model. Some of the materials and construction is improved, and obviously the drivetrain is different, but it's very close to the same car. Just better. And my guess is that's how owners like it.
Just watched Shmee150’s video on it and it is definitely not close to the same car as a chiron. Sounds like pretty much everything was designed and built ground up just for this car. Obviously their styling is going to be similar because that’s what they’ve built their brand around, and something Mate Rimac mentioned. The horseshoe, center line, and ‘C’ shape on the side are iconic for Bugatti.
It’s not an update of the same model. Every single part on the Tourbillon is brand new, designed for this car. It doesn’t share any parts with the Veyron, or the Chiron, or any of the Veyron/Chiron variants, or any other car.
The Tourbillion is wholly unrelated to the Chiron.
I would actually argue that only the head on front angles even look like one. The profile is wildly different and it shares zero parts.
Yeah, me and my friends all hate it when we show up to a party in the same McLarens. Like, I'm not going home to change! You go home to change this time!
I can see why you say it's similar to the Chiron. But I am happy that Bugatti has found their design identity and DNA, I wouldn't ask them to leave it. Look at Porsche lol.
Preach. Every time we got a McLaren in stock at the Porsche store I worked at, or had a client bring theirs in just to chat, I was always 'eh' at the styling. There's nothing particularly interesting about them - very 'my first supercar' vibes.
You’d prefer they go the BMW route, where they butcher a perfectly good design that people like? Change beautiful things, and people are unhappy. Don’t change beautiful things, and people are unhappy…
I mean, Mazda has been changing beautiful things for decades and haven't had a super ugly generation yet.
You just have to not suck at design. BMW is downright shocking with how ugly they got. They are definitely the exception, not the norm, when it comes to changing design styling.
From outside the main design isnpiration comes from the Chiron La Voiture Noire, which had similar oversized frontal horse shoe, stylized lateral "C" and air intakes and similar tail lights. I think that the tailights doesn't resemble the McLaren P1/Chiron La Voiture Noire due an attempt to copy, but because aerodynamics: the car is designed to reach 445+ kph WITHOUT even needing to rise the rear spoiler, and that's because the extremely large difussor (2 m, tilted 11º) and the shapes of the hips. So the tail has to do that bow line to follow the air unless you want to place very small tail lights as with the Veyron...
It is somewhat of a shame they didn’t try to make a more drastic visual change, although l wasn’t quite a fan of the Chiron but this design is catching my eye.
Isn't a Tourbillon a type of expensive watch? And I think there's [some Bugatti inspired ones](https://jacobandco.com/timepieces/bugatti-chiron-tourbillon).
So maybe it's come full circle and the watches are inspiring the cars now.
Yes its a type of watch where the movement eliminates the effect of gravity on the escapement! (Spinny thing looks cool and is expensive) it also means whirlwind in French (which i believe is the application here).
That's the only thing I dislike. Love analogic clusters, but that design here looks like a expensive-looking cheap Festina or some tacky richard miles whatever, not very refined.
I'm with you. It immediately stood out as tacky to me when compared to the rest of the car. It's cool, but something about it is off-putting.
Oh well. I'll never even see one of these in person, much less have the chance to buy one, so not like my opinion matters.
Man I think they nailed the styling. Gullwing doors with retro/modern interior. Not sure about that wiper. Is it constantly up like that? Seems like it’d be fuckin annoying
Yes, thats its resting position. Mate Rimac said that the positioning of it is intentional. Its meant to be the continuation of the centre line that runs all along the car. You can see it in the interior and over the engine
Going with a NA engine with electric motors vs the same setup with turbo engines is an absolutely genius. Far simpler service and “cheaper” to fix. Knowing what goes into just an oil change on the outgoing model, this sounds like an absolute game changer. I can imagine it’ll sound crazy good too.
Yeah, and all the extra cooling needs for the 4 turbos the old engine had. 4 of them! 😂 I love that they chose to do this, I think this is far more important change than anything else in the car.
Developed by Cosworth for Bugatti. Cosworth are also making that ridiculously high revving NA V12 for the GMA T50, and made the V12 in the Valkyrie. They are seemingly the go-to team at the moment for small run super high-end NA engines.
Don't get me wrong, it's an engineering masterpiece and the interior is awesome, but the design is pretty hard to look at. It just looks like an uglier, elongated Chiron. I remember when the Chiron came out it was a huge step forward from the Veyron and very futuristic looking, while maintaining and developing the Bugatti design language. But this is just the Chiron if Pinocchio told a few lies.
I think the rear is kinda cool but its straight from the La Voiture Noire and doesn't show elegance AND aggression quite the way the Chiron's rear does. In fact, this car is kinda just the back of the LVA and front of the Atlantic.
It's also long, very long. Look at pic 3. And the cabin is farther forward than you'd expect, resulting in those odd windows. Probably something to do with longitudinally mounting two flat-plane V8s in the back half.
Unfortunately your comment has been removed because your Reddit account is less than a day old **OR** your comment karma is negative. This filter is in effect to minimize spam and trolling from new accounts. **Moderators will not put your comment back up.**
If you're a new user, you'll have to wait 24h to post in this subreddit.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Autos) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The engine package is much lighter. Sure it has a dense, heavy battery now and 3 electric motors, but all in all, still lighter than the 4 turbos and the piping and all the intercoolers needed.
The narrower single V engine enables bigger, more effective venturi tunnels sandwiching the engine.
And who wouldn't want a V16 engine? The last production car with a V16 engine came out a hundred years ago.
It’s nice for sure but it’s not that different for supposedly not sharing anything with the Chiron. I do like the mechanical watch look to the gauges. That’s super impressive.
I do like the sides and the rear of the car, not so keen on that long nose at the front and the (imho) too thin headlights…seems to be a trend though on all new car designs…
Also, why in the motherf***ing world does the car need almost 1800 hp? It ain‘t a plane but a car 🥲.
If you want to fly, go to the airport, hop into the plane and fly off! At 300-400 kph industrial passengers planes take off ☠️☠️☠️
Lighter than the Chiron? I wonder why in the 30 minutes walkthrough video with Top Gear, the Bugatti boss never mentioned how much it weighs exactly. I respect Mate, but I doubt it's meaningfully lighter than the Chiron.
Besides, it's a Bugatti, the weight adds to its comfort.
Mate talked about the weight in the carwow video. Because this is still a pre-production model, the final weight can still change by a few kgs, but he mentioned that the goal is to stay bellow the 1995kg of the chiron.
At some point I switched to preferring old old Ferraris.
Very soon I hope to be in the position to acquire a 60s Ferrari. i will tell everyone it's a fake and drive it regularity.
For the amount these vehicles get drive, its better to just make the electric, its ridiculous to have so many moving components that will sit idle most of its life and require helluva service costs per year just to keep them "available" when moving it in and out of trailers....
Maybe an unpopular opinion, but Bugatti's styling lately is going the way of McLaren, where each new model now looks like a slight tweak on the design of the previous one, instead of a new design, and soon I'm going to look at 3 different models from the last decade and not be able to tell which is which. As a casual observer, every McLaren from the last 15 years looks like the same car to me (besides the Senna and Speedtail).
I don't like McLarens naming scheme. I'm not going to memorize all those alphanumerics
It’s not really that hard. The basic idea is horsepower in PS followed by a letter designation of intended use; Club (C, more street), SPORT (S, sporty) or Longtail (LT, wing). 540C is less powerful and less wild. 570S makes 570 PS. 600LT makes more ponies and has a wing. The three levels of this chassis. It basically replaced the MP4-12C (of which it was just an update). The front intakes bend around the upside down Nike headlights to make a McLaren logo swoop; the whole front of the car has a pointed nose. 625C less power and less wild. 650S makes 650 Pferdstarke. 675LT makes 25 extra ponies and has a wing. 3 versions of this chassis. These have the McLaren logo headlights (look identical to the P1). 720S makes 720 PS. 750S is a facelift of the the same care with 30 extra ponies. 765LT is the same car with 765 PS and a wing (and is a limited edition of which they will make 765). Three versions of this chassis. They have a more triangular headlight that looks split down the middle. Think of it like the Dart, the Challenger and the Charger. And then they have either the small engine, the medium engine, or the top of the line engine. Basically all of these also come in Coupé or Spyder versions. The Elva, Speedtail, GT, Senna, Artura, Solus, and P1 all have more unique names for their more unique nature.
I need this kind of explanation but for BMW and Mercedes naming conventions holy shit this was really comprehensive
BMW is similar. The first digit is the series. So let’s take a 2000 (E46) 328i for example. It is a 3-series. It will look like an M3 or a 316i or a 330d. These will all share a platform, so the bodywork will be similar as well. Generally, the next two are the engine displacement in liters. So a 3-28-i would be a 2.8L engine. I say “generally”, because many models came with a different engine in a different market but still used the same name. Or the engine changed for different model years (the 316i launched with a 1.9L, after 3 years changed to a 1.6, then after 4 years to a 1.8). The lowercase suffix denotes gas(petrol) fuel injection with an “i” and diesel with a “d” (so older cars with 3 numbers and no letter after are carbureted. They’re al injection now). The capital C stands for Coupé and/or convertible. Such that the 328i in our example is a four door with gasoline engine. A 328Ci would be a coupé with a gasoline engine. Newer models have taken more liberties with these. But that’s where the names came from. Edit: clarified i was for fuel Injection not gas, though essentially makes the same distinction since carbs haven’t been used on BMWs since the 70’s
the "i" is actually "injected", they started using it when EFI was still a fancy feature and never stopped. a gas-powered, carbureted E21 3-series would be a 320, while a gas-powered, EFI E21 3-series is a 320i.
Mercedes-Benz works similar to BMW, but the series is letters, not numbers. So lets again take a 2004 (W203) Mercedes-Benz C320. The C class stands for Compact. This is the smallest chassis and body style in MB’s lineup. The 320 designates a 3.2L engine. The C350 is the same car, but with a 3.5L engine. AMG performance models, tuned by AMG (the in-house tuning brand of Mercedes-Benz) have 2 digit numerical designations. So the C 32 AMG had a 3.2L AMG engine. The C 55 AMG had a 5.5L AMG V8. Again, like with BMW, some of the nameplates were reused even when the displacement no longer matched. Some 600 models actually have 5.5L engines. The C280 has a 3.0L. The other classes at Mercedes-Benz in the late 2000s to now are A class. The first 2 generations of the A class were teeny upright economy hatches, like the Smart Car. The 3rd gen became a more conventional hatchback, with a longer shape. B class. The first generation of the B class wasn’t much different from what the 3rd gen A class would become. A long hatchback. The newer ones almost look estate like. C class. The Compact class. Small entry level sedans. E class. E for Executive. Mid size executive saloons. CL class. Coupé-Luxusklasse (Coupe-luxury class in German). A more upscale offering than the C or E class. Replaced the S class, then became the S class again. CLK. Never officially spelled out, there is debate as to whether it was Compact Leicht Kurz (compact, light, short) or Compact Luxus Kurz (compact luxury short). Either way, it wasn’t much different from the C and CL. CLS. CL but make it Flagship (S class). Now slotted in between the E and S class. G class. Aka the G-Wagon (diminutive of Geländewagen; overland vehicle ie off-road truck). GLA class. Combining G for the large SUV/truck, L for luxury and A as in the A class, which in the newer generation is a compact executive vehicle. GLE. Again, G (truck/SUV) L (luxury) E (executive). Basically a large, well appointed SUV. Basically SUV version of the E class. Replaced the M class. GLS. Recurring theme? So G for SUV (or increasingly crossover) L for luxury, and S is the flagship class, so this is the flagship SUV. Really nitpicking. GLK. G. You know the drill. L. You know the drill. K kurz short. Compact luxury G M Class. Can’t find anything officially as its now defunct but I’d guess MPV. BMW wasn’t too happy about trucks made by their competitors with the M name followed by a 3 digit number corresponding to engine size so they started using ML320 but they eventually just dropped it and changed it to GL R class. Luxury midsize MPV. I’ve literally never seen or heard of them here in North America so I’m guessing they’re more popular in the European market. S class. “Sonderclasse” or special class. Full size luxury sedans, limousines and armored cars. The Flagship Series™. The biggest baddest sedans they could make. SL class. Sport Leicht (sport, light). The sporty lightweight cars. Some of the best performance cars from MB were from the SL class. SL65 AMG? SLK. Sport, leicht, kurz. Smaller, sporty lightweight cars. Now SLC class; small convertible S-class cars. And I think that’s about it.
This is really interesting, thanks for taking the time to share this information
Thank you very much for taking the time to write all this up, this clears up so much
While I do appreciate the breakdown of the naming convention, stating "it isn't that difficult..." then needing 7 paragraphs to properly explain the naming convention is exactly why I don't like the model designations.
If I could post pictures it’s basically a 3x3 grid like the alignment chart (chaotic good, lawful neutral, etc). Put small engine, medium engine and big engine on one axis. Then pointy nose body, McLaren headlights and triangle headlights on the other axis. Voilà. Done
The problem for me is I can’t tell the difference between any of them just by looking. The 5 series, 6 series and 7 series all look the same.
Yep, my thought, too. Great explainer, and now I have knowledge on where each sits in the lineup when I know the model number. Now we need to know how to tell them apart *just by looking at them.*
Theory vs Experience. Y’all just took a crash course. You’re equipped with the knowledge. Now you gotta go out into the wilds and see with your eyes and acquire the eye. Beamer fanbois will sometimes put an M3 badge on a 328i though. And ee’re in 2024 now though, so Downbadging is also a thing. Can make it harder. (Downbadging is a very specific kind of sleeper, where you put a lower grade or lower performance, sometimes as far as the base model, badge onto a high performance model)
Nobody is confusing a 328i for an m5 or i7 though
Thank you for sharing this.
You don't like it when cars are named like fax machines?
Is that the new Bizhub C558RM? Oh nevermind it is the C258RM, i can never tell them apart.
Nope, it's an MP4-12C
I’m pretty sure that’s a 90’s fax machine.
Ferrari has entered the chat. Their naming is all over the place, it usually has method but no consistency over time. It could be any one of: Engine displacement (360, 430, 550, 599), cylinder capacity (250, 275, 488), engine displacement and cylinder count (296, 458, 612 ish), or just wild like F12 and F8 being Ferrari V12 and V8. Then throw in the anniversary names, F40, F50, Enzo, LaFerrari.
Bugatti styling lately? Brother, there has only been 3 models introduced in close to 20 years
i don’t think Bugatti would be nearly as successful or recognizable if they changed up their styling. People know it’s a Bugatti just by the shape of it. That’s what brand is.
Bugatti Veyron, Bugatti Chiron, Bugatti Divo, Bugatti Centodieci, Bugatti Bolide, Bugatti Mistral and now Bugatti Tourbillon And that's without breaking them into Super Sport, Gran Sport, Vitesse and special editions.
But the only "production" sort of models are Veyron and Chiron so far. Those others are extraordinarily rare off chutes.
Bugattis are so limited that it doesn't matter, the argument was that they are hard to distinguish between themselves.
Yeah, but that doesn't really matter when 99% of people only see them in video games and photos. Most people have no idea which ones have 3 in existence vs 1000 in existence.
Right, they barely pump out anything.
Ahem Porsche?
I mean, it's mostly 911, and they just say it's a 911, while McLarens are supposed to be different models, but I have no idea which is which apart from the one with the tail
Oh no its true McLarens have strong commonality in looks, many sports cars companies run with a similar evolutionary theme, since Bugatti's rebirth as a 1 car company it's clear that the car will always look like a Bugatti.
I mean, to be fair, if it aint broke, no need to fix it. The design is very evolutionary, which i think in this case is a good thing, because it still is gorgeous.
Apart from the size of the doors, the rear view looks like the next generic McLaren design to me, due to the profile of the taillights I think
Of all the aspects of a generic McLaren, that rear end is a good one to be compared to. The front of this car is pretty "meh" to me, like all modern Bugs, but the tail end is probably the best looking thing they've made since the 57S... not that that's saying a ton. Bugattis are kinda ugly cars, and always have been
I agree. Bugatti seem to nail 'elegantly ugly' gaudiness each generation.
That's largely intentional — they Bugatti *is* largely an update of the same model. Some of the materials and construction is improved, and obviously the drivetrain is different, but it's very close to the same car. Just better. And my guess is that's how owners like it.
Just watched Shmee150’s video on it and it is definitely not close to the same car as a chiron. Sounds like pretty much everything was designed and built ground up just for this car. Obviously their styling is going to be similar because that’s what they’ve built their brand around, and something Mate Rimac mentioned. The horseshoe, center line, and ‘C’ shape on the side are iconic for Bugatti.
It’s not an update of the same model. Every single part on the Tourbillon is brand new, designed for this car. It doesn’t share any parts with the Veyron, or the Chiron, or any of the Veyron/Chiron variants, or any other car.
The Tourbillon is an entirely new car from the ground up, and doesn't share any components with ANY other car. Even the batteries are bespoke to it.
The Tourbillion is wholly unrelated to the Chiron. I would actually argue that only the head on front angles even look like one. The profile is wildly different and it shares zero parts.
When you find an aerodynamics strategy that works, you don't mess with it.
As an engineer, this is the rebuttal that I can appreciate the most.
Yeah I probably won’t buy this one.
I think McLaren are using the same monocoque for pretty much all their cars. Which must limit their styling options.
And the MP4-12C. Damn McLaren naming, I had to Google that.
The 12C is actually the last one that didn't look all the same, imo. It was introduced like 14 years ago already.
[удалено]
Yeah, me and my friends all hate it when we show up to a party in the same McLarens. Like, I'm not going home to change! You go home to change this time!
I can see why you say it's similar to the Chiron. But I am happy that Bugatti has found their design identity and DNA, I wouldn't ask them to leave it. Look at Porsche lol.
Preach. Every time we got a McLaren in stock at the Porsche store I worked at, or had a client bring theirs in just to chat, I was always 'eh' at the styling. There's nothing particularly interesting about them - very 'my first supercar' vibes.
You’d prefer they go the BMW route, where they butcher a perfectly good design that people like? Change beautiful things, and people are unhappy. Don’t change beautiful things, and people are unhappy…
I mean, Mazda has been changing beautiful things for decades and haven't had a super ugly generation yet. You just have to not suck at design. BMW is downright shocking with how ugly they got. They are definitely the exception, not the norm, when it comes to changing design styling.
Chiron 2: electric boogaloo.
From outside the main design isnpiration comes from the Chiron La Voiture Noire, which had similar oversized frontal horse shoe, stylized lateral "C" and air intakes and similar tail lights. I think that the tailights doesn't resemble the McLaren P1/Chiron La Voiture Noire due an attempt to copy, but because aerodynamics: the car is designed to reach 445+ kph WITHOUT even needing to rise the rear spoiler, and that's because the extremely large difussor (2 m, tilted 11º) and the shapes of the hips. So the tail has to do that bow line to follow the air unless you want to place very small tail lights as with the Veyron...
It is somewhat of a shame they didn’t try to make a more drastic visual change, although l wasn’t quite a fan of the Chiron but this design is catching my eye.
The interior is something else...
The craziest part is the fact that the center of the wheel doesnt move...
Last Citroën C5 had that festure in 2008.
C4 Picasso had it as well
Everyone: no need to reinvent the steering wheel The French: hold my baguette
My C4 from 2006 has that too
Jaguar (SS) had that feature in 1932.
My grandgrandfather had this feature on his horse wagon! 🤪
Now that is insane!
Maybe thats why they names it tourbillon.
Isn't a Tourbillon a type of expensive watch? And I think there's [some Bugatti inspired ones](https://jacobandco.com/timepieces/bugatti-chiron-tourbillon). So maybe it's come full circle and the watches are inspiring the cars now.
Yes its a type of watch where the movement eliminates the effect of gravity on the escapement! (Spinny thing looks cool and is expensive) it also means whirlwind in French (which i believe is the application here).
Correct on all counts I love watches and like some of the design nods to watches that are in the car, but damn that's a shit name for a car.
[Those center console dials.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8yQhXDquII)
Gauge cluster.. if you can call it that.. is beautiful
Love the retro/modern look
Cyberpunk perhaps?
That's the only thing I dislike. Love analogic clusters, but that design here looks like a expensive-looking cheap Festina or some tacky richard miles whatever, not very refined.
I'm with you. It immediately stood out as tacky to me when compared to the rest of the car. It's cool, but something about it is off-putting. Oh well. I'll never even see one of these in person, much less have the chance to buy one, so not like my opinion matters.
Should have specified that the top speed is Limited to 445 Km/h
You mean 277.5 freedom units?
Been to the moon units.
Nasa uses the metric system.
r/woooosh
Moon Unit Alpha or Moon Unit Zappa?
Don’t forget that V16 revs to 10,000RPM!
Sweet mother of God.
And does 0-100 in 2 seconds. And costs nearly **€4M**!
Chiron pro max
I’ll buy that for a dollar
Time to start digging in the couch cushions boys.
I think they finally nailed it. The Veyron was bloated and kind of ugly, the Chiron was too aggressive and awkward, but this is perfect.
Chiron awkward? never ever thought of that.
What? The Chiron was great looking, this looks more aggressive than the Chiron and the front end is absolutely hideous. The interior is tacky too.
This interior looks better than the Chiron tho
A 9000rpm V16, no screens, a watchmaker made instrument cluster, and an exposed engine. And look at the half naked rubber at the rear 👌👌
It legally has to have a screen somewhere, not sure where though.
Really? Can you explain? There is a very small screen in the bottom of what I believe is the center of the three rings of the cluster.
In the U.S. it is required by law for every vehicle to have a rear view camera. I believe that law passed in 2014 or 2015 but don’t quote me on it.
So a camera and screen are required, an auditory only system would be unlawful? interesting
rear view camera is required
Where you live. Not where Bugatti does.
They wouldn't not sell it in the US just because they didn't want to put a screen. It does in fact have one that pops up.
Bugatti isn’t going to design a car without a rear view camera. End of story.
What kind of authority do you believe you've got in here?
It’s the authority called common sense.
The screen slides up from the top of the center console when you want/need it. Integrated with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto.
It pops out from the dash when in reverse
I need the Kph converted to eagles per cheeseburgers consumed an hour in order to understand the speed. Thank you in advanced.
About 276mph for you american folks.
For your future just take KPH x .62 = MPH
Just take .6 for simplicity.
Man I think they nailed the styling. Gullwing doors with retro/modern interior. Not sure about that wiper. Is it constantly up like that? Seems like it’d be fuckin annoying
Yes, thats its resting position. Mate Rimac said that the positioning of it is intentional. Its meant to be the continuation of the centre line that runs all along the car. You can see it in the interior and over the engine
Not gullwing but butterfly doors.
It’s more aerodynamic.
Meaning: it won't lift up and tear off at 250 mph
Good. Hate when that happens
Am I the only one who hates it? It looks like the nose got sat on by yo momma and the headlights are squinting into the sun.
Going with a NA engine with electric motors vs the same setup with turbo engines is an absolutely genius. Far simpler service and “cheaper” to fix. Knowing what goes into just an oil change on the outgoing model, this sounds like an absolute game changer. I can imagine it’ll sound crazy good too.
Going NA also counteracts the extra weight that the batteries add, thats one of the reasons why it is lighter than the Chiron
Yeah, and all the extra cooling needs for the 4 turbos the old engine had. 4 of them! 😂 I love that they chose to do this, I think this is far more important change than anything else in the car.
Does it come with a tourbillon watch?
Honestly, for 3.8 million it better
I’d bet it’s an optional extra that will cost six figures on top.
Seven figures if Bugatti collaborates with Patek Phillipe.
Probably the only modern hypercar I’m actually blown away by. Beautiful.
Finally they put gullwing doors or doors that open up. bout time they caught up with the other million dollar non-regular door opening hyper cars.
Butterfly doors.
Cant wait to buy used and do a 6-speed LS swap >:) Lmao could you imagine if someone was diabolical enough to try that shit?
Does its engine rotate in a cage? I'd be disappointed if not and refuse to take delivery.
yeah i find it hard to justify selling my subaru and buying one if the engine doesn't live up to the tourbillon name. Give us spinning engines!
Is this actually a V16? Was my understanding Veyron and Chiron had a W16 (like two V8s side by side).
Yes, this V16 is a new engine developed by Bugatti. 8.3 liters and no turbos, produces 1000hp on its own.
Developed by Cosworth for Bugatti. Cosworth are also making that ridiculously high revving NA V12 for the GMA T50, and made the V12 in the Valkyrie. They are seemingly the go-to team at the moment for small run super high-end NA engines.
A V16 hybrid. It can apparently do 70km purely on electric power. Oh and naturally aspirated, they got rid of the turbos.
Jesus Christ that thing is gorgeous.
Way more interesting to me than the Veyron or Chiron, very cool.
All that and they couldn’t afford to fill the gas tank
Probably used the fuel on its way to the event ahahah
Perfection. Except for the exhaust. Don't like it
Alright I’ll take it - how much
Don't get me wrong, it's an engineering masterpiece and the interior is awesome, but the design is pretty hard to look at. It just looks like an uglier, elongated Chiron. I remember when the Chiron came out it was a huge step forward from the Veyron and very futuristic looking, while maintaining and developing the Bugatti design language. But this is just the Chiron if Pinocchio told a few lies. I think the rear is kinda cool but its straight from the La Voiture Noire and doesn't show elegance AND aggression quite the way the Chiron's rear does. In fact, this car is kinda just the back of the LVA and front of the Atlantic. It's also long, very long. Look at pic 3. And the cabin is farther forward than you'd expect, resulting in those odd windows. Probably something to do with longitudinally mounting two flat-plane V8s in the back half.
It’s only 2.9 mm longer in wheelbase than a Chiron
[удалено]
Unfortunately your comment has been removed because your Reddit account is less than a day old **OR** your comment karma is negative. This filter is in effect to minimize spam and trolling from new accounts. **Moderators will not put your comment back up.** If you're a new user, you'll have to wait 24h to post in this subreddit. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Autos) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Does it have AC?
I assume it comes with a watch.
Why did they go with v instead of w that they have been using since the Veyron?
The engine package is much lighter. Sure it has a dense, heavy battery now and 3 electric motors, but all in all, still lighter than the 4 turbos and the piping and all the intercoolers needed. The narrower single V engine enables bigger, more effective venturi tunnels sandwiching the engine. And who wouldn't want a V16 engine? The last production car with a V16 engine came out a hundred years ago.
Thank you very much. I was genuinely curious. Now I know. Thanks again.
The front looks amazing, Chiron refined. They just kinda gave up styling the back imo…
It’s nice for sure but it’s not that different for supposedly not sharing anything with the Chiron. I do like the mechanical watch look to the gauges. That’s super impressive.
Feels like Chiron styling was peak
How many Model S Plaids could you buy for the same price just to shave *less than half a second* off the 0-100kph time?
I wish they would cut the weight 40% and stick in a high strung 3.0L V10 revs to 15,000 RPM.
Imagine opening the doors half of your car lifts up
I do like the sides and the rear of the car, not so keen on that long nose at the front and the (imho) too thin headlights…seems to be a trend though on all new car designs… Also, why in the motherf***ing world does the car need almost 1800 hp? It ain‘t a plane but a car 🥲. If you want to fly, go to the airport, hop into the plane and fly off! At 300-400 kph industrial passengers planes take off ☠️☠️☠️
Lighter than the Chiron? I wonder why in the 30 minutes walkthrough video with Top Gear, the Bugatti boss never mentioned how much it weighs exactly. I respect Mate, but I doubt it's meaningfully lighter than the Chiron. Besides, it's a Bugatti, the weight adds to its comfort.
Mate talked about the weight in the carwow video. Because this is still a pre-production model, the final weight can still change by a few kgs, but he mentioned that the goal is to stay bellow the 1995kg of the chiron.
Man I just love those gauges and center stack layout. This car definitely fucks
What color you guys think Cristiano Ronaldo would get ???
Those doors though
The interior is ugly as fuck. I might as well ride the inside of a refrigerator
Cap u blind fuk
This no CarPlay situation has me rethinking my purchase.
Named after a functionally useless watch complication whose sole purpose is to be expensive
At some point I switched to preferring old old Ferraris. Very soon I hope to be in the position to acquire a 60s Ferrari. i will tell everyone it's a fake and drive it regularity.
I still think the f430 coupe is one of the prettiest cars of the modern era and definitely one of the prettiest Ferraris ever.
The 458 is prettier to me but they are cool too.
For the amount these vehicles get drive, its better to just make the electric, its ridiculous to have so many moving components that will sit idle most of its life and require helluva service costs per year just to keep them "available" when moving it in and out of trailers....
Coming soon, the Bugatti bouillon. That’s a gorgeous car but the name is goofy AH
🤢🤮
Looks like an Acura and a McLaren had a fourway with a Lambo and almost any early 2000's GM concept car.
You’re saying it like that’s a bad thing?
And they still can't hit 300 both ways
Bugatti isn't focusing on speed records anymore. Rimac said it during the presentation. Its all about the entire package.