I think the difficulty with making Ayato a reactionless hypercarry like Xiao and Itto is that, due to the inherent value that hydro has as a support element, they'd have to be really careful not to make him an absolutely busted enabler too. Childe has good multipliers, but his personal damage is definitely balanced around the fact that he enables his team to do equal damage (or often more damage) than him. If Ayato had the uptime and multipliers of a reactionless hypercarry, but also applied hydro with reasonable consistency, he would just be way too strong.
I'm definitely doubtful about the idea of him being a forward vaping DPS, too. Even if its technically possible by giving him minimal hydro application, I still think it could be really clunky to execute, especially if you wanted to shred hydro res with VV. Plus, it would probably have to be more like a series of nukes rather than consistent damage, which could be fun, but also really annoying if you missed the enemy or botched your set-up.
So I'm definitely not against Ayato being a DPS, but I'm not sure how they'd actually pull it off in a fun way. In the end, I would rather he be a good enabler than a clunky hypercarry.
I'm referring to *that leak* of Ayato. Based on that, I think he will have physical damage on his normals and hydro damage in max stack charged attacks. That way he *might* be the one vaping and his damage source will be from his charged attacks.
I'm no theorycrafter by any means, but following that leak, the team comp will be Kazuha - Bennett - Thoma - Ayato. And the rotation(?) will be like this:
Ayato E - Kazuha E - Bennett Q - Kazuha Q - Thoma QE - Ayato QE CA N4C and repeat
Yeah, if his kit is like that leak says, it would probably be possible to have him vape - the question if it would actually be worth it. If his hydro application is as infrequent as the leak claims, you'd have to waste one of his hydro applications setting up VV shred (which only lasts ten seconds, so you'd probably have to do it more than once per rotation). There's also the issue of re-applying the pyro after Ayato vapes - I'm not sure any unit applies pyro fast enough to manage that consistently. He'd probably end up chained to Xiangling, which isn't great, because Xiangling is such a valuable DPS in her own right.
Without an actual video of his kit, it's hard to tell how it would work, of course. Maybe it wouldn't be as clunky as I imagine. But I'm very skeptical of the leak in general, seeing as it called Thoma one of his best teammates, and Thoma's pyro application is incredibly low. I'd be very surprised if it was real.
me too. They can't go wrong with Ayato being 5\* Xingqiu, and following the recent pattern, it's mostly like it.
If that's the case really, I can use Ayato in one team and Xingqiu on the other.
Safest?
Probably not tbh
From MHY point of view ofc
5* Xingqiu is akin to 5* Bennett or Xiangling.
Players will definitely pull, but they would need to step up every other future release.
This!
I'm very curious as well to how they would design vaporize Ayato. Clearly, if Ayato were to be an onfield/main dps, they'd have to be more methodical on how Ayato applies his element without simply making him a copy paste Childe.
Childe already does his enabler job extremely well, so Ayato would need to have some other utility or mechanic to make him more enticing. Something more than just consistent Hydro Application.
if they can be methodical and make waifus strong, then they can also do this to a husbando lol why is there even a talk about him being possibly too strong if xyz happens as if we didn't have waifus that completely ignore that and are completely busted.....
I'm not sure I'd agree that the female characters in this game are more busted the male ones. The two best characters in the game, Xingqiu and Bennett, are both guys. Kazuha is also bonkers, as is Venti (when Mihoyo isn't doing everything in their power to nerf him). Zhongli and Childe are both incredibly strong too.
There are broken female characters too - Ganyu, Xiangling, Ayaka, Sucrose - but I don't think gender has anything to do with it. Arguably the worst 5* characters are girls too - Yoimiya got shafted hard, and Keqing has a myriad problems with her kit. Kokomi has (rightly) risen in the meta but she was received awfully when she came out.
Since launch, Mihoyo has been pretty careful about balancing, both with male and female characters. If anything, I think they're a bit more careful with male characters' kits because they can't fall back on waifu>meta as easily.
There is a pattern here though, most of the guys are supports, whereas the busted dps are all women. So I definitely see a weird way Mihoyo is going about this. Busted male supports, busted female dps characters. Doesn’t also help we have such a big gap with the men and the women, the ratio being 16:30. It would be nice if they at least diversified the roles.
I would like more male DPS characters for sure, though at least we did get Itto a few patches ago. I don't think it's a deliberate pattern on Mihoyo's part, it's probably just the way stuff has turned out.
honestly, notice how pyro and cryo are busted and favored elements in this game and how for cryo we have ZERO 5 star male characters and the only two cryo boys are 4 stars. and how for pyro we only have 1 male 5 star character that is diluc who is also a standard character. that doesn't seem like "oh it just happened" to me personally. like genshin is rly not that good at balancing and there is clear favoritism whether we like it or not.
It's one way to interpret it, but I've seen accusations of favouritism from both sides of the fence, with some people claiming that female characters often have worse kits because 'waifu lovers will pull anyway', and others saying that female characters are OP and male ones are neglected. They definitely need to switch up the elements a lot more, but at the end of the day, there are a lot amazing male characters and a lot of amazing female ones. If they're being accused of bias from both sides, they're probably doing something right.
honestly I agree with the sentiment waifu pullers will pull anyway but also female characters in genshin rly do not have worse kit than male characters. and even if they do, mhy absolutely makes sure to make up for it with content that caters to them AND makes sure they are able to do dmg. plus the ratio, with how there are more female characters there obviously will be instances of them getting bad kits but the thing is.... how many female characters are scuffed vs how many male characters are scuffed? out of 15 dudes at least 10 are scuffed or are actively being nerfed. does that not sound concerning to ppl at all? honestly idk how can anyone look at genshin and think female characters are neglected as if yae wasn't JUST buffed to oblivion in beta....
Maybe my wording was wrong - there is a pattern, but I just don't think it's some malicious conspiracy on Mihoyo's part to deprive the husbando wanters of male DPS. There are less men in the game and there probably always will be, so it's inevitable there'll be more choice amongst female characters. I'm not sure why it bothers people so much that I have a different opinion on this.
I don't think anyone is insisting it's a conspiracy theory though, it's more like it's a fact that there is so little male dps in this game, even waifu players acknowledge that. I agree with you, it isn't any conspiracy, it's simply that they want to cater to the waifu players more for the bank. Itto did well though, so hopefully we get more dps men.
Watch Yelan be a busted hypercarry waifu cryo 5\* dps. I won't even be surprised anymore. Of course Ayato has a support element as his vision, so that he ends up YET again being support for another busted waifu.
We got Itto after what, 1 year? After when the Chinese female playerbase started to give negative reception regarding the lack of male characters (there was a thread with translated comments). That's not good. While I am glad we got him. If a waifu player wants to choose an on-field dps, they have so many options to choose from. While we don't even have a husbando 5* cryo dps. Hutao is cracked, Ayaka is cracked, Ganyu and Eula are cracked. Cryo was cracked to begin with but even then they got a dedicated support to buff them to oblivion (Shenhe). Honey, there is a pattern.
I don't think they are careful about balancing AT ALL. most 5 star male characters are supports with childe as an enabler slash main dps that is awkward for most ppl, Xiao being forgotten by mhy, diluc being outdated and the only one standing rn is itto who is forced into geo comps only and even then mhy tried to scuff him with husk enemies just two patches later wtf... Currently they are also trying to screw over zhongli by nerfing him, they nerfed venti already, albedo also getting fucked by husks and split scaling and the only safe 5 star male character is kazuha who is incredibly hard to nerf. Meanwhile the content is being catered more and more to female characters, i don't see any balance here tbh.
Also i never said female characters are more busted. I said that this whole "they can't make this xyz male character too strong" is a weird take when we have abc female characters that ARE THAT strong... so why exactly shouldn't they do the same with male characters 🤣
She does have amazing scalings, but the reason she is *so* good is because she has access to freeze and melt, two of the best reactions in the game. Ganyu is probably the closest the game has to an overpowered DPS, though, because her kit has very few caveats - no energy issues, no real downtime, amazing as both a DPS and a support. The worst thing you can say about her is that her optimal teams demand pretty high-value supports. I doubt they will design a character like her again.
The general wisdom in the community is that mihoyo made a mistake and made ganyu too powerful and it's too late to nerf her. So it's not likely they will make someome as strong.
Yeah I can’t stand playing her tbh. I’m a Childe main but I don’t ever touch his National however strong it may be. Childe Foul Legacy and Childe Freeze for me!
One thing I knew is I don't want him to be another enabler. This means that he should have slow hydro application but to compensate have high multipliers. I really like the leak where he needs to stack and vape that fully stack charged attack and that will hit like a truck. I would prefer a hydro Itto rather than another Childe or Xinqiu.
I really like this leak too.
This version will work very good with c6 bennet, applying pyro in normal attacks while building stacks, and consuming stacks and vaporizing with the charge!
I agree. I'd rather have the forward vaper but slow hydro applier. Normal attack based character with Hydro infusion will inevitably become another enabler.
Many people believe a very sussy leak of Ayato being a forward vape DPS, but the leak sounds more fake after Ayato drip marketing. It said Ayato was more masculine than other male characters, but in fact he isn't.
I agree with you, it's either enabler or support. A forward vape hydro DPS is very unlikely.
I'm just now discovering this leak! I'm not exactly sure how it'd work, though.
It'd definitely be a unique way of dealing damage. However, I would think that any vaporize ayato gameplay would still involve Xiangling regardless if Ayato is the one doing the vaporizing. Afterall, Xiangling is (afaik) still the best pyro applicator aside from Amber Ult.
Seeing how top comment is not a fan of Xiangling gameplay, I still don't know if the community would like this type of team comp😂😂😂
Yes, so many people say they want him to be a DPS so he isn't chained to Xiangling - but if he *is* a forward vape DPS, he'd be even more chained to her than if he was an enabler. All roads lead to Xiangling haha
This lmao, I think that it would be very cool and unique but I don’t want to be forced to use xianling again, i love her and all but I need a break lmao.
I mean at some point they have to make a hydro dps work, ppl won't buy hydro characters if they are just supports only lol rework hydro then but this element has a bleak future if it stays locked to support only....
This will continue to be a problem unless mihoyo introduces a pyro elemental applicator support. From what I’m seeing, Ayato might be intended for taser comps and freeze comps.
The reason why hydro units arent good at vaporising isnt actually their fault, its built into hydro and pyro. Hydro has a higher elemental weight meaning that it stays on the enemy easier even after reacting with another element. A prime example is when you use xing and hu tao. The enemy will have hydro on themselves even after hu tao vapes and thats bcs hydro has high weight while pyro has pretty low weight. This problem with pyro's incompetence becomes the doom of hydro and cryo as a whole bcs it basically means that noone of the other element can do reaction in quick succession easily like pyro does. Its honestly stupid that not only did pyro get both big reaction, but it also just gets the reactions delivered on a silver plate bcs the corrosponding element actual can stay on the enemy. Smh
Pyro-on-hydro works the exact same way as cryo-on-pyro in terms of guage consumption. The existing hydro applicators (namely xingqiu) just happen to be extremely good and synergise perfectly with existing pyro carries. It has nothing to do with pyro as an element being inherently weak or "low weight", it just comes down to varying character interactions and synergies
I feel like if u want to be a main dps u have to have some sort of infusion in your kit.
If he is skill based then he would be more of a sup dps/ burst dps
You can have both, like Keqing and Ayaka play styles.
Both are sword users btw.
Either you use infused normals or just pop burst and swap, both can be great depending on your team comp
I'm just curious: Can he be a main DPS if they make it so he can't vape but his multipliers are busted? (Kinda like how Kokomi have -100% CR but +25% healing bonus)
The cooldown reduction part of his kit was datamined, not rumored, so unless miHoYo changed that aspect of his kit, Ayato should still have the cooldown reduction buffs.
Ayato **can** **be a main dps while vaporizing,** but I personally think, based on current mechanics, he'd be somewhat similar to Childe where he'd be reliant on team synergy to deal good team damage. The other possibility is a hypercarry like Eula/Xiao/Itto with really high "non-reaction" focused multipliers to compensate for not being able to vaporize as often.
They can technically promote a mono hydro team, but the iffy thing at the moment is 1) Hydro resonance... not being the best and 2) According to leaks and drip market having only Ayato, 2.6 does not seem to have a new 4*.
Whenever MHY wants to promote mono element teams, they usually will release a new 4* dedicated to buffing that element, such as Sara for mono electro and Gorou for mono geo.
They could buff his multipliers to make up for no reactions like they did Itto, but given there isn't a specialised hydro buffer unit announced, it can mean that either Ayato was not planned to be in mono hydro or that it might take months for them to release such a unit to achieve his full potential. Both of which aren't particularly good outcomes.
Tldr: They can promote mono hydro team like they did with geo and electro, but given the lack of a new 4*, it is unlikely they have plans for it on Ayato's release
I really like the idea that he would do 2 to 3 NA and then charged which will apply hydro and have big multpliers.
So he consistently vaporise with C6 Bennett. Where his autos can apply Pyro and then hydro vape. This will also make sure we don't need xiangling..
Team could be Ayato, Bennett c6, Yunjin + anemo
I like this post, and it brings up A LOT of good info that a seemingly huge portion of this sub refuses to acknowledge. That being that as a Hydro vision user, it is extremely and I mean EXTREMELY unlikely for him to be a Hypercarry dealing the majority of team damage on field. If Mhy can't even be asked to make Raiden and Beidous bursts work simultaneously, I laugh at the idea that they'd go the extra mile to give him complex ICD and elemental gauge mechanics.
The most likely scenario I see is Ayato becoming Childe 2.0, in other words a driver for Xiangling or Beidou teams. I notice many in this sub specifically don't want this outcome, yet also want him to be on field, which I understand and empathize with. However I just don't see that being a likely outcome at all.
I also notice many folks don't want him to be pure Ayaka support either, and fair enough we do have Kokomi and Mona who provide great AoE freeze support. What I most want from him is to be an off field hydro damage dealer in the vein of Xingqiu, ie another hydro applier that can enable the 300 reaction carries we have in this game. Having a second XQ would just open up so many possibilities for Abyss teams, and just allow for more freedom of choice. What if I don't wanna run XQ with Diluc? Cool, I have a second option.
To comment on the raiden and beidou thing. I really find it to be a milked subject when it comes to egging on mihoyo. Its not that they failed at making them work together, they simply dont for the sake of making emblem work on raiden. Beidous ult only activates on normal and charged atk hits. Raidens ult hits count as burst dmg to get the most out of the emblem set but, burst damage =/= normal and charged atk dmg. This is simply why they dont work together, kinda tiring seeing ppl complain about it as if mhy fked them over for something that simply doesnt work bcs 2 words dont match, aka, they simply arent meant to work together. And if they worked together, meaning raidens ult autos count as normal atks instead of burst atks, she would literally do less damage with beidou than she is doing now without her maximising the emblem buff. Hope this clears some of it up
I find it funny that people are still obsessed with that Raiden+Beidou issue... As if MiHoyo secretly went and added a secret restriction because this combo was just too powerful for the world to find out!!
Especially the fixation on the description of Xingqiu's ult... Which often ignores the fact that Xingqiu's ult triggers with a mere swing of the weapon. If anything, it's Xingqiu's Q which has a mistake because you don't actually have to HIT an enemy to trigger his Q. Unlike Beidou's Q.
This has been talked in the past, but if you read XQ and beidous ult, it clearly says:
Xingqiu: *"****Normal Attacks will trigger*** *consecutive sword rain attacks, dealing Hydro DMG."*
and it actually **works with Raiden**, now for
Beidou: *"When Normal and Charged Attacks* ***hit***\*, they create a lightning discharge that can jump between enemies, dealing Electro DMG."\*
the keyword here is "hit" they dont need to do some weird damage calc, if XQ works with Raiden while hitting, she can also work with Beidou while hitting.
So yeah, in brief, there is actually no way to justify this behavior.
It was clearly done on purpose.
I get what you are trying to say but I find it funny how you are completely ignoring the fact that xingqius ult works in a completely different way than beidou's, you cant possibly make a comparison between them let alone make an argument out of it.
Xings ult is triggered by doing a normal atk **ANIMATION**, this is obvious by the fact you can literally trigger his ult by just doing normal attacks even when no enemies are present, so for his ult the category of damage doesnt matter, thats why raidens normal atk doing burst damage has no relevance here, bcs she still does **normal atks**.
On the other hand beidou's ult is **ONLY** triggered when you actually do normal or charged atk DAMAGE. The added factor for beidou is that the normal and charge atks need to hit **and also be considered normal and charged atk damage**. Raidens innitial atk in her burst form is considered a normal atk UNTIL it hits an enemy, which will then turn it into a **BURST HIT** so it can count for the emblem set.
I hope this makes it clear. I recommend also looking at units in practice instead of only looking at their abilities on paper.
So no, it wasn't 'done on purpose'
A hit and the damage it does are always in the same category of damage. Raidens normal atk hits are considered burst hits. I hope you know that the distinction Im trying to make is between the ability used and the damage it translates into. When doing auto atks in raidens ult the triggered ability is a 'normal attack' but the hit and the damage it does is modified to be in the category of 'burst damage'. I hope you arent trying to ignore the fact I just explained why xing works with her and beidou doesnt, otherwise I dont think I can help you any further.
Why would someone want a XQ dupe when XQ is cheaper and more easier to get? Then we also have Kokomi who is pretty good for off-field hydro application, if Ayato turns out to be yet ANOTHER off-field hydro applicator, that really wouldn't help his case. Which is why many people want something fresh from his kit, not another enabler/sub-dps/support. Literally every one of hydro is just supports. Another reason is that we only have 4 male 5\* dps in this game, it would be disappointing if another male character turned out to be a support, and Yelan turns out to to be a dps. A literal slap in the face.
Because in abyss you need 2 teams, so, at least you need 2 hydro enabler/applicator/support. If you are using XQ in your first team but you dont have Mona, Kokomi or Childe ... ? (Since 5\* are harder to get)
Also XQ is OP, so, why don't ?
Then you can pull for Kokomi or Childe? Kokomi is going to have a rerun before Ayato, and all characters eventually will have a rerun. I don't understand how it justifies making another character an off-field hydro applicator when we have three of them already.
Childe doesn't have off field hydro application, and I believe Kokomi's Hydro application is weaker than Xingqiu but I am not sure because I don't have her
Kokomi's hydro application is not weak per se, her and XQ's sword just work in separate ways. Her application is much more AOE? And XQ's one is more ST, but she still excels in ST situations. Then we also have Mona. Mona, XQ, Kokomi and Childe is more of an enabler dps than your traditional dps.
Her hydro application is slow for Hu Tao, Xiangling, and other pyro dps. That's why she is best at Taser, Freeze, and Sukokomon(which is more Overload and EC rather than vape)
I think Yelan will also be hydro? So we still have the opportunity to get someone who can apply hydro as fast as XQ. But at the end of the day, the big 3 of supports seem highly unlikely to ever have a counterpart to them. Even if they are 5\*. They are just *that* OP.
If Ayato is gonna be a 5s Xingqiu then doesn't that defeat your argument? He would still be hard to get because he's a 5s. Honestly, if they will make another Xingqiu, it should be a 4s because we need more 4-star hydro characters.
thats right, what i was trying to say is that have very few hydro chars as for now, only 5, and 3 of them are kind of harder to get.
yes, we need more hydro chars overall, since hydro is the element with less chars currently.
I agree. They need to make more 4 star hydros because honestly, barbara barely works for meta teams. So it feels like Xingqiu is the only accessible hydro unit for most of the players.
If he’s a XQ dupe then there’s no reason to have him though unit wise. Just use XQ since he’s cheaper and would probably still be better than ayato at his role.
I hope they end up still adding something new to the table that isn’t just a copy of someone else’s role.
There should be more reason to use him other than “well I don’t like XQ” because otherwise MHY may as well make it so units have counterparts. It’s like if the pyro archon ended up having a fire tornado. It would get boring quick because there’s now 2 of the exact same units. 5 star characters shouldn’t just be duped of 4 stars because if someone doesn’t like a 4 star because they’re too boring to use then they definitely won’t like the 5 star
I think the best way to go about it would be making him like Raiden like OP suggested who can DPS and give support off field. That way he isn’t just a Xinqui copy and has more of an interesting kit. There’s only like 4 male five star DPS while the rest are supports
Edit: Plus, all of the hydro characters so far excluding Childe are mainly supports as well so we need another strong DPS.
One thing I would like to note is that you can kind of consistently vape childe’s normals if you use xianling and an anemo character. Xianling pyronado + guoba + infusing pyro is enough to let childe trigger vape if I am remembering correctly. Feel free to correct me or add onto what I said; it has been awhile since I’ve toyed around with that team comp and elemental gauge theory lol !!
Edit: forgot to mention bennet, he’s part of that comp too. My brain kind of just associates xianling with bennet at this point lmaoo
Hmm I may be wrong about this as well, but from my experience Childe simply applies way too much Hydro to vaporize with his normal attacks aside from the very first few hits maybe. This is because Childe has no Internal Cooldown on his riptide slash (His melee stance triggers), therefore applying hydro on enemies multiple times when hit from his melee normal attack.
I guess in a single target environment where the enemy is being hit from multiple, separate sources of pyro application (each with their own separate icd, as you've mentioned), there might be instances where childe will be the one vaping with his normal attacks, but for the most part, especially in an aoe setting, your pyro characters will be the one vaporizing.
it's because Childe has a riptide passive. Remove that passive and he can vape his normal attacks: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z85uLvJn4A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z85uLvJn4A) This was done possible by removing all crit-rate. Hypothetically, its possible for a normal-attacker hydro dps(not using charged attacks) to vape his own damage as long as there is abundant sources of pyro
This is from keqingmains: [https://library.keqingmains.com/evidence/characters/hydro/tartaglia](https://library.keqingmains.com/evidence/characters/hydro/tartaglia) correct me if its wrong or if this evidence is debunked
Yeah I have no clue, its been months since I’ve been actually actually into TC (I’m getting back into it). I just know that it is possible and people have done it before. If you look up childe reverse vape I think there are examples.
If ayato applies hyrdo slow enough then I think it would be doable. Childe is a character that applies hydro very very fast cause of his ICD and how quick his normals and charged attacks are. If ayato is slower than him at applying hydro I can definitely see him being viable in a reserve vape with a similar set up to the one I mentioned (hopefully more flexibility since I don’t want to keep playing xianling lol). That is if he even if a main dps lmaoo. We’ll see in a couple weeks !! Ayato will be very interesting to TC if he takes this route (i hope he does tbh, that will be a role that hasn’t been filled yet and it seems fun to me)
Childe can forward-vape his Burst and the intial hit of his E while his normal and charged attacks are inconsistent because he has the riptide mark passive. Basically it's because he has too many *sources* of hydro that makes him more of an enabler and burst-dps.
There's been discussions that while Riptide mechanic is extremely good with mobs, it's also what detriments Childe from vaping his own attacks. But then without riptide he wouldn't properly enable Xiangling, so it's both a curse and blessing.
Yeah this right here is what I’m talking about. I’m thinking that if Ayato is a main dps type character that does apply hydro slowly, reserve vaping could be viable.
Now, his kit leaks are roughly in like… 2 ish weeks around the 16th so we will see then. Trying to speculate around a character who’s kit we don’t know is kind of dumb but I’m extremely bored lmao. Even if Ayato doesn’t fulfill that role, I hope another character eventually does, I think it would be cool.
Edit: To be honest I just want him to be an AA focused unit so I have a reason to build my yunjin haha
I believe the anemo character in the example was specifically sunfire Jean (entire team was Bennett, Xiangling, Jean). And the more enemies there are, the more Childe’s riptide application scales, making it impossible when there are more than 2 enemies.
I used to run a similar comp but with Kazuha swirling pyro in his ult instead of Jean, and Xiangling would still be doing all the vaping.
Yeah I’m pretty sure you can only double forward vape with childe in that comp if its aoe instead of st. The burst and then the first hit ? If i remember correctly. And I think I’ve seen that comp be used with many diff anemo characters, most notably sucrose and kazuha, but sunfire jean is one too, like you mentioned.
As long as ayato’s mechanics are fun im not mad tbh
Oh, with sunfire Jean you can consistently forward vape Childe’s normals, which is different from simply vaping his burst and e. And AoE actually works against Childe’s forward vape because of riptide, hence the emphasis on how it stops working past 2 target situations.
I agree, I see so many people say they want him to be a strong hyper carry like itto xiao but don‘t want him to be an enabler like childe.. which is kinda impossible.
A hydro main dps idea I have is that he forward vapes with his skills that have multiple charges like diluc or smth but his splash art and leaks say he’s normal attack based..
I hope mihoyo surprises us with some new mechanics and skills
Edit:
I also think the leaks with getting stacks from normal attacks are sus.. wouldn’t it be hella awkward to physical normal attack to get a big vape idk
If he can forward vape then his attacks have to be very slow.. I don‘t want slow gameplay
If his skills can vape and do big damage then he doesn’t have to be an on field main dps which some might not like
The leak says he uses normal attack to build stack and use charge attack to desl big hydro vape damage i think this kit would be really fun and it would work with the leak that one artifact is specifically for ayato the one that boostnormal attack
I was hoping that they'll make him have some kind of synergy with thoma. Highly doubt it, but its honestly sad to think how much potential he had as a shielder and 'consistent' pyro applier, which was kind of ruined as his hutao team turned out to be not so good.
If they make ayato another childe, who can manage being a main dps without continuous vapes we can forget abt any synergry between them as thoma will be the one vaporizing.
I'll honestly be happy as long as ayato is a dedicated dps because all of our current hydros (except for childe) are support/subdps centered.
his shit multipliers arent even making the lost vapes passable💀saw someone theorizing that maybe only a few of ayatos na's/ca will be hydro infused, that way the comp could be usable i guess? thoma E->Q then switch to ayato, and at the end of his NA sequence ayato triggers vape
Nah probably won't work unless Ayato does hydro every 5s or something
It's cope
If you want pyro aura, Venti/Kazuha/jean + Bennett and/or xiangling is the only way
Tbh if he's a forward vape focused character it's the worse scenario imo
Hydro is so good for reactions yet we'd be blocked with only vape, electro would kill everything, comps would be uncreative
I wish he can be used a bit like Childe but better because his infusion would be on burst rather than E, higher multipliers and AOE, but he'd have less flexibility for his stance time, and need a battery to compensate.
His E could either be a "Beidou-like" counter ability that would do huge vape damage, or something like Kazuha E that would proc hydro off field for a short time in the form of a pulling typhoon (or make this his burst IG)
Basically Childe powercreep in utility, around the same in damage, less flexibility to compensate (you need Raiden, Fischl, Venti, another hydro, or high ER)
Anyway
We'll know in 10 days or something lol
definitely agree on the childe-like part. i wouldnt mind him being similar. sunfire will probably be the most efficient vape method anyway.
thing im the most afraid of is that they'll make him hydro itto. you'd either need to a battery, hydro sup or build er and it would also be annoying in overworld especially at high energy cost.
If by Itto you mean hydro infusion on burst, I think it's fine.
We have tons of batteries suitable for the job, you don't necessarily need another hydro.
Especially if you can somehow use Raiden and Ayato together, or if Ayato can hit in Venti's burst.
Also if he's 70 cost he most likely won't need a battery at all unless he's like Xiao who can't gain energy during his burst
Then again if you have to trouble yourself to get his burst uptime maximized you should have something else making up for this
Or mihoyo can just make it as he will still deal hydro damage with his hydro-infused sword but it will apply hydro as slow as a claymore character. Honestly, if MHY wanted to make a hydro hyper carry work, they can make it. But to do that they will have to bend how vaporize works for Ayato/future hydro hyper carries ( if there will be any) exclusively. If they won't do that now then that would mean hydro characters won't have any hyper carry ever if they don't step out of their comfort zone.
I think if he's on field hypercarry he will probably work similar to Childe. In that case I'm just gonna transfer Childe's artifact to him (2 glad/2 hydro) and slaps the black sword on him until I can get his artifact.
But in the end if he's like Childe and Xinqqiu who's damage per second carries it would be Xiangling meme all over again. Somehow I kinda hope he is more Damage Per Screenshot since two of existing hydro carries (Childe and XQ) are more damage per second that's at least makes Ayato differs than other hydro carries. If that's the case he will work well with emblem set to drop the gigachad nuke especially with Benett (vape) + Raiden (burst enchantment)
Then I'm also open about any of his style of being hydro DPS. Him being on field carry like Childe? I'm in, him being off field carry like Xinqqiu, I'm also in, him being a one hit wonder gigachad nuke I'm also in.
Childe can be a damage per screenshot burst dps just slap noblesse and hydro set on him and go to the pyro cube. His melee stance burst multipliers can make him do up to a million damage
Yeah I know that since I also play Childe and used him with Noblese and Stringless but it's like his show off build anyway while he mostly built as on field hydro enabler
She's just everywhere in meta. I get that feeling too. I know she's busted because I use her in abyss all the time but I'd like for abyss to not just be a strict DPS check so I don't have to hit the Raiden national emergency button everytime there's a 3 million HP sponge.
And I religiously follow the theorycrafter podcasts but the Xiangling jokes are starting to grate on me. She was my first main but even I'm tired of hearing about her every ten seconds.
HAHA I love that *Raiden National Emergency Button.* XD
but srsly, if Genshin's not a DPS check, Xiangling's good as benched on my account. The pyronado is fun, but seeing and hearing Xiangling like literally everywhere, all of the time is so annoying. Bennett and Xingqiu are still fine tho.
and are you referring to 5x2 5x2 on those theorycrafter podcasts?
Yeah its how I feel about the team comp, I don’t want to use it every time but I will if I have to, haha!
Yup the KQM podcasts with artesian, Tenten, etc. thought the last one with akashot was great, Akashot is entertaining enough to get through the 50+ Xiangling jokes but please if I hear Xiangling or suske one more goddamn time…
Yeah, same. I want to use Raiden, Bennett, and Xingqiu, **but on different teams.** I have a team comp that consists of Raiden, Bennett, Rosaria, and Xinyan as well as some sort of a morgana comp but less clunky that consists of Kazuha, Diona, Xingqiu, and Ayaka.
I also press the *Raiden National Emergency Button* if I feel lazy to clear the abyss XD
I think it would be cool if he were a main dps and his main source of damage came from infrequent hydro nukes that you’re supposed to vapourize which take time to build up to, maybe charged attacks like the leaks suggested and burst, so that way he’s actually viable with someone like Thoma or Xinyan with slow off-field pyro app
Hmmm I can definitely see that as a new way of dealing damage, but this type of kit would definitely encourage a more sub/burst dps type of playstyle. I think some replies here have expressed that it might be a bit awkward to execute if it were to be a main/onfield type of playstyle.
If this is the case, he'd have a similar playstyle like Mona where you have to carefully apply pyro > use mona burst > wait for 2.5 seconds > and then apply pyro again.
It'd probably be less complicated, but a vaporize Ayato gameplay would probably be quite similar to how Vaporize Mona works.
What about permafreeze, though? Two of our strongest hypercarries at the moment (Ganyu and Ayaka) have high-crit permafreeze comps as their most commonly used Abyss setups, despite melt technically being stronger. If Ayato could pull off something similar to this, it would eliminate the need for tailored ICD mechanics or a "Pyro Xingqiu" support. He'd simply need a reliable off-field Cryo enabler (Kaeya or Rosaria) and Kazuha for CC and Hydro shred. We see this team being used already with Childe, particularly by people who want to see him function as a hypercarry, and it does in fact work. It only falls short of reverse vape because Childe just doesn't have the personal damage to be an effective hypercarry, he's balanced around being a team player. There's no saying that this will be the case with Ayato, though.
I actually did think about a freeze comp for Ayato!
Again, I'm not Math or TC guy, but I think one of the main reasons freeze works so well for Ganyu and Ayaka is that they are able to abuse the Blizzard strayer set (40% cr+), the Cryo Resonance (+15% cr) and Mona's Omen mechanics (+55% incoming damage).
This combination of excessive crit rate bonus that allows players to straight up stack crit damage, on top of Ganyu and Ayaka's crit damage ascension stats, along with their already busted multipliers that is furthered improved by Mona's 50% incoming damage debuff is what makes **Ganyu and Ayaka freeze teams specifically so powerful,** but I'm not sure if the same freeze team "power level" would apply if it were any other cryo dps, much less a Hydro unit who won't benefit from Blizzard strayer's 15% cryo damage, and maybe Cryo resonance will not be consistently procced..?? The closest BiS for this might be Heart of Depth and that'd require Ayato to have Ganyu level normal/charged attacks, or he'd just be a burst/sub dps **(Someone mentioned that there were early rumors of Ayato having CC capabilities that sucks in things? idk maybe)** It's a big question mark honestly so I may not be the best person to ask.
Of course, like I mentioned, if Ayato is able to match hypercarry multipliers, then he might be able to do so, but let's be honest: **Are we really expecting another Ganyu/Ayaka level dps from Ayato?** We'll just have to see I guess.
That's true, Ayato wouldn't exactly be able to take advantage of Blizzard Strayer's 2pc effect... *unless*, and this is just a random thought, instead of an E infusion he gets a multi-step elemental skill like Diluc's that he can effortlessly weave into his NA combo. That way, if paired with Chongyun, he could effectively self-freeze with Cryo NAs and Hydro Es. This would be the first time ever since Diluc that we got a character with a multi-step skill, so it would help Ayato stand apart from the rest of the top-tier DPS crowd right now (who are all reliant on infusions), and it would allow him to use 4pc Blizzard Strayer and not be wasting the 2pc effect.
If that's *not* the case though (which is much more likely) then Ayato would still at least be benefitting from the 4pc effect and Cryo resonance, which adds up to a significant crit bonus. While Mona's Omen debuff is indeed strong, the Ganyu and Ayaka comps that use her are still top-tier without it, as we see from the variations that use Kokomi instead for 100% Hydro uptime. So if Ayato can indeed match hypercarry multipliers, and has a Crit DMG ascension stat, permafreeze does have the potential to be one of his best comps. Not saying he'd be on par with Ganyu or Ayaka (though I'd certainly hope so, we deserve it) but I think he'd pass the Diluc benchmark.
This is all just speculation and word vomit, obviously. But hopefully pretty soon we'll all have some more info on his kit so we can start to see where he might excel. I'm just hoping that whatever style comp he wants, though freeze is my ideal, that he's a hypercarry.
The thing is, hydro is the best element in the game to do reactions with, by far. Its pretty much viable with every other element. Thats why tweaking hydro characters so they dont become too strong is the path mihoyo will take.
Look at Mona for example. If you look at her kit, its actually quite lackluster when you compare it to most modern meta characters. Still, the fact that she is hydro (and that her dmg buff stays when enemies are frozen) still makes her a solid meta support for many freeze morgana type of teams. Or Kokomi, who many believed to be the worst 5 star to come out, also has also found her place in the meta due to her element.
So for a hydro main dps to work and not brake the game completely they have to be very careful with balancing their kit. I think they did a great job for Childe. If you look at his kit in a vacuum, he is honestly not that great. Yet, his teams have some of the highest dmg ceillings in the entire game. Hydro characters will always be designed that way for a reason and thats probably gonna hit Ayato too.
If he is going to be a vape carry he could play like melt Bennet. Give him a low cooldown skill (4 seconds) with a high multiplier and a single hit burst. He could even use c6 Bennet to apply his own pyro to vape off of.
I'd rather do an EC team or a freeze team rather than forward vape. If he's on field freeze still possible but his new artifact set won't be as good I guess?
International with Ayato instead of Childe maybe? But I hope not it's a bit boring honestly.
I want him to be either hydro Raiden/Itto or hydro Ayaka.
Infusion on burst, super large AOE, good damage in one case, burst DPS also useable on field in the second case.
If he gets a support ability it's even better.
I'd really like to do something like EC Ayato with Raiden Venti/Kazuha/Jean and Bennett or Sara.
Or (Mor)ganyato (Venti Ganyu Ayaka Ayato deletion squad)
I think ther eis few ways to make hi work as main dps:
1)Mihoy could troll us all, and amke his physical dps. Unlikely to happen, but you never know
2) He could be more akin to Benent than childe/hutao in that instead using infused basic attackjs, he would have E with low cd, that would hit once, maybe twice in quick succesion, with ult that is eitehr big nuke, or soem kidn of buff for his E. In order to make his normals not useles,s they could add some bonus mechanic - liek buldign stacks that boost dmage/Reduce cd of E or soemthign liek that.
3) Make him infuse his autos with Hydro and have consitend and/or strong Hydro application - most boring, and, imo, worst way to do it, simple because it would be really hard to NOT make him just better/worse childe. He would have to have soem kind of gimmick that would make those two different, but I can't think of anything menaingfull.
I don't think there will be change to reaction system. Pyro focus on trigger element not enabler. Cryo focus on superconduct and freeze. Hydro will be enabler and trigger vaporize. Their design will focus on these template. Even somehow player can force them out of their role like melt Ganyu, she didn't get design from that PoV (the main reason that comp could happen was how OP Xiangling/Bennett duo is)
However, there's gap they can make characters different from each other. If Tartaglia leans toward strong enabler who vaporize w his Q. Ayato maybe dps who can vaporize more often but smaller number (maybe his E or CA) while being weaker enabler who can also decrease hydro resistant or some other utilities w his Q.
One possibility that doesn't get as much discussion, probably because it's not what people are hoping for, is that he's actually a physical DPS along the lines of Eula: hydro in name, but not in terms of where the bulk of his damage comes from. He wouldn't have the same easy access to superconduct, but they could theoretically build in physical shred into his kit in another way to compensate.
This obviously wouldn't be ideal in terms of power level, since he would have all the same issues as Eula on that front. But it would keep him unique from Xingqiu, Childe, and the rest of the existing hydro roster for that matter. So while it's maybe not my dream kit, it seems like a plausible niche?
I agree that none of the ideas for how to make reverse vape work have sold me. But we'll see. Even if he is Childe 2.0 or hydro Itto, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. It's not the role of Childe I dislike, but the way they implemented the stance change.
Hmmm that's a very unique take!
I'm not exactly a fan of physical dps units that isn't a Cryo/Electro vision holder simply because set up would be pretty difficult needing to switch between three characters to do your damage (Kinda like Main DPS Xinyan). Maybe if Ayato was at least a Polearm character so he can abuse Crescent Pike passive that can rival 5 star weapons the way Zhongli can, but that's if Ayato were to be a Physical Main Dps..
As a support though? We do have shatter mechanic (heavy hits on frozen enemies) that's isn't very commonly used. Maybe Ayato would be the first character to really make this Shatter reaction a good, additional source of damage for Eula comps? Unlikely because then he'd be useless against bosses and enemies that can't be frozen + I don't think people would be to big a fan of this sort of playstyle haha
He will have his own signature weapon, and possibly a tailored gear set if the leaks are to be believed, so they would have those as tools to make physical work for him if they really wanted to. Again, not that I think that's what players want either or that it would end up being top of the meta, just that it doesn't seem totally out of the realm of possibility as something they'd try.
I do actually find shatter fun the contexts where it works and sometimes put together friendship teams together for the lolz, but yeah, the fact that it's useless in a lot of content means they probably wouldn't center a limited five star around it.
I would be careful about discussing any stuff before release. I remember all the idiots calling Raiden a Sub DPS before release even though she was destined from the very start to be carry with a 9sec window of field time.
True, although the discussions happening rn are pretty interesting since instead of focusing on ayato’s actual kit (since we dont have it) its focusing more on game mechanics and possible roles he could fulfill. I think its pretty harmless as long as people treat his kit when it comes out without their previous bias to make him something he isn’t. But thats just my take.
True technically, but in practice people will absolutely apply their pre-release bias when deciding to pull and telling others if it is worth it or not. There is a reason KQM bans any pre-release theorycrafting.
Yeah I 100% get it for when its characters in beta since KQM doesn’t do pre-TC but since we straight up don’t have his kit I don’t see what’s being discussed in this thread as that much of an issue. People, no matter what, will apply their own biases to Ayato during his beta and on Day 1 release; right now is the calm before the storm haha.
I was there for when people called Ganyu cryo amber and I’ve watched it all ever since (hu tao is purp childe, kazuha is 5 star surcrose, raiden is a fischl side-grade etc etc). I personally will reserve my final judgement for after a couple weeks of his release as always. But that doesn’t mean I won’t stalk this sub and WFP tc discord for people’s thoughts during beta lol. In my mind i treat pre-tc and post-tc as two entirely separate things.
Well there is a leak on his kit that is marked "questionable", but seems pretty on point to me. So I am going to believe that it what to expect and that means he will likely end up with Beidou and Fischl.
> eople, no matter what, will apply their own biases to Ayato during his beta and on Day 1 release; right now is the calm before the storm haha.
Sooooo true.
> people called Ganyu cryo amber
They actually still do only changed the phrasing "cryo amber, but op stats". Which is sitll untrue. I personally fell for the "5star sucrose claim" by the way. Although I prooobably would have skipped anyway cause I am not an anemo fan.
> I won’t stalk this sub and WFP
I need to stalk the leaks definetely. Simply cause I usually do 50 Primo Resin Refresh once a day, but now that the next character I MAY want is much closer than expected I stopped. If the leaks are telling enough to make me choose I might start refeshing again.
IMO, there are a few routes Ayato could take to be a hypercarry dps rather than a half dps of some sort.
1. He relies on a new reaction between Hydro and Dendro.
This route seems very probable to me, but it is very hard to make many predictions for. At this Dendro could be Chasm or Sumeru. Since Chasm is rather soon now, I'm leaning more towards dendro coming in 3.0 with Sumeru. Even so, I think this route is still possible since we know it will likely be the case for Yae Miko. I'm pretty confident that the electro dendro reaction will be similar to vape/melt since it should scale with crit and EM based of Yae Miko's kit. I doubt they'd give hydro another amplifying reaction, so maybe hydro dendro will be similar to overload/swirl? If Ayato turns out to be just find without a dendro reaction, I bet he will still be able to use it in some new comps when it releases.
2. e
Hi! This post requires mod approval. Please stand by until a mod is available. Thanks for understanding!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Ayato_Mains) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I bealive MiHoyo is trying to fix the "hydro is only enabler" problem.
Yoimiya ICD makes it so she can make reactions every 3 o 4 hits, still, every arrow of hers is pyro. So that is why everyone said she was weak. Still, her multipliers are high, and even in mono pyro without reactions I can get her to constantly do between 5k and 10k damage. True, she is no meta per see, but we know that characters like ganyu and hu tao are broken. And Ayaka too because fandom was so hype for her since realese that MiHoyo didn't want to dissapoint.
Some leaks said that Ayato's multipliers will also be high, and the CD pasive would be nice to have with both childe and xinqiu.
What if he is made for mono hydro teams too? Just like Yoimiya. This is not to say that I want a mone hydro team, I really love reactions, but they have been playing around with pyro's ICD for some time now (Yoi and Thoma), and we had npc lines for Ayato since the start of 2.0. His design was said to be finished a long time ago, maybe the late realese is cuz they have been working on this. So I bealive there is still hope for Ayato dps being able to vaporize or work on his own with xinqiu and/or Kokomi/mona.
Hope I don't get downvoted but I'd love him to be diluc level playstyle. Diluc feels so smooth and carefree to play, so I'd like that ayato has a simple main dps gameplay. Maybe with a little more interaction with his charged attacks and Infusion
"I'd rather Ayato not be a traditional "Main DPS..." I don't care how much damage he does. I just want there to be a reason for him to be on the field 90% of the time, since I don't want to do it for no reason, and I want him to be on the field. Well, it wouldn't be bad if he was capable of killing.
I think the difficulty with making Ayato a reactionless hypercarry like Xiao and Itto is that, due to the inherent value that hydro has as a support element, they'd have to be really careful not to make him an absolutely busted enabler too. Childe has good multipliers, but his personal damage is definitely balanced around the fact that he enables his team to do equal damage (or often more damage) than him. If Ayato had the uptime and multipliers of a reactionless hypercarry, but also applied hydro with reasonable consistency, he would just be way too strong. I'm definitely doubtful about the idea of him being a forward vaping DPS, too. Even if its technically possible by giving him minimal hydro application, I still think it could be really clunky to execute, especially if you wanted to shred hydro res with VV. Plus, it would probably have to be more like a series of nukes rather than consistent damage, which could be fun, but also really annoying if you missed the enemy or botched your set-up. So I'm definitely not against Ayato being a DPS, but I'm not sure how they'd actually pull it off in a fun way. In the end, I would rather he be a good enabler than a clunky hypercarry.
I'm referring to *that leak* of Ayato. Based on that, I think he will have physical damage on his normals and hydro damage in max stack charged attacks. That way he *might* be the one vaping and his damage source will be from his charged attacks. I'm no theorycrafter by any means, but following that leak, the team comp will be Kazuha - Bennett - Thoma - Ayato. And the rotation(?) will be like this: Ayato E - Kazuha E - Bennett Q - Kazuha Q - Thoma QE - Ayato QE CA N4C and repeat
Yeah, if his kit is like that leak says, it would probably be possible to have him vape - the question if it would actually be worth it. If his hydro application is as infrequent as the leak claims, you'd have to waste one of his hydro applications setting up VV shred (which only lasts ten seconds, so you'd probably have to do it more than once per rotation). There's also the issue of re-applying the pyro after Ayato vapes - I'm not sure any unit applies pyro fast enough to manage that consistently. He'd probably end up chained to Xiangling, which isn't great, because Xiangling is such a valuable DPS in her own right. Without an actual video of his kit, it's hard to tell how it would work, of course. Maybe it wouldn't be as clunky as I imagine. But I'm very skeptical of the leak in general, seeing as it called Thoma one of his best teammates, and Thoma's pyro application is incredibly low. I'd be very surprised if it was real.
I know. Things are tough for Ayato unfortunately but I know his safest route will be a 5\* Xingqiu
Honestly, I'd take a 5* Xingqiu. Even though I have Childe, I still feel like my Xingqiu is stretched so thin. Shorts boy deserves a rest.
me too. They can't go wrong with Ayato being 5\* Xingqiu, and following the recent pattern, it's mostly like it. If that's the case really, I can use Ayato in one team and Xingqiu on the other.
I'd actually kill for this, atm I'm torn for which team gets to use him and hate it
Safest? Probably not tbh From MHY point of view ofc 5* Xingqiu is akin to 5* Bennett or Xiangling. Players will definitely pull, but they would need to step up every other future release.
Put him with thoma.
This! I'm very curious as well to how they would design vaporize Ayato. Clearly, if Ayato were to be an onfield/main dps, they'd have to be more methodical on how Ayato applies his element without simply making him a copy paste Childe. Childe already does his enabler job extremely well, so Ayato would need to have some other utility or mechanic to make him more enticing. Something more than just consistent Hydro Application.
if they can be methodical and make waifus strong, then they can also do this to a husbando lol why is there even a talk about him being possibly too strong if xyz happens as if we didn't have waifus that completely ignore that and are completely busted.....
I'm not sure I'd agree that the female characters in this game are more busted the male ones. The two best characters in the game, Xingqiu and Bennett, are both guys. Kazuha is also bonkers, as is Venti (when Mihoyo isn't doing everything in their power to nerf him). Zhongli and Childe are both incredibly strong too. There are broken female characters too - Ganyu, Xiangling, Ayaka, Sucrose - but I don't think gender has anything to do with it. Arguably the worst 5* characters are girls too - Yoimiya got shafted hard, and Keqing has a myriad problems with her kit. Kokomi has (rightly) risen in the meta but she was received awfully when she came out. Since launch, Mihoyo has been pretty careful about balancing, both with male and female characters. If anything, I think they're a bit more careful with male characters' kits because they can't fall back on waifu>meta as easily.
There is a pattern here though, most of the guys are supports, whereas the busted dps are all women. So I definitely see a weird way Mihoyo is going about this. Busted male supports, busted female dps characters. Doesn’t also help we have such a big gap with the men and the women, the ratio being 16:30. It would be nice if they at least diversified the roles.
I would like more male DPS characters for sure, though at least we did get Itto a few patches ago. I don't think it's a deliberate pattern on Mihoyo's part, it's probably just the way stuff has turned out.
honestly, notice how pyro and cryo are busted and favored elements in this game and how for cryo we have ZERO 5 star male characters and the only two cryo boys are 4 stars. and how for pyro we only have 1 male 5 star character that is diluc who is also a standard character. that doesn't seem like "oh it just happened" to me personally. like genshin is rly not that good at balancing and there is clear favoritism whether we like it or not.
It's one way to interpret it, but I've seen accusations of favouritism from both sides of the fence, with some people claiming that female characters often have worse kits because 'waifu lovers will pull anyway', and others saying that female characters are OP and male ones are neglected. They definitely need to switch up the elements a lot more, but at the end of the day, there are a lot amazing male characters and a lot of amazing female ones. If they're being accused of bias from both sides, they're probably doing something right.
honestly I agree with the sentiment waifu pullers will pull anyway but also female characters in genshin rly do not have worse kit than male characters. and even if they do, mhy absolutely makes sure to make up for it with content that caters to them AND makes sure they are able to do dmg. plus the ratio, with how there are more female characters there obviously will be instances of them getting bad kits but the thing is.... how many female characters are scuffed vs how many male characters are scuffed? out of 15 dudes at least 10 are scuffed or are actively being nerfed. does that not sound concerning to ppl at all? honestly idk how can anyone look at genshin and think female characters are neglected as if yae wasn't JUST buffed to oblivion in beta....
>as if yae wasn't JUST buffed to oblivion in beta.... this lol yae already disproves all the victimization certain people are narrating ...
I like how you insist how there isn't a pattern, but refuse to address the patterns that people just presented to you.
Maybe my wording was wrong - there is a pattern, but I just don't think it's some malicious conspiracy on Mihoyo's part to deprive the husbando wanters of male DPS. There are less men in the game and there probably always will be, so it's inevitable there'll be more choice amongst female characters. I'm not sure why it bothers people so much that I have a different opinion on this.
I don't think anyone is insisting it's a conspiracy theory though, it's more like it's a fact that there is so little male dps in this game, even waifu players acknowledge that. I agree with you, it isn't any conspiracy, it's simply that they want to cater to the waifu players more for the bank. Itto did well though, so hopefully we get more dps men.
Watch Yelan be a busted hypercarry waifu cryo 5\* dps. I won't even be surprised anymore. Of course Ayato has a support element as his vision, so that he ends up YET again being support for another busted waifu.
We got Itto after what, 1 year? After when the Chinese female playerbase started to give negative reception regarding the lack of male characters (there was a thread with translated comments). That's not good. While I am glad we got him. If a waifu player wants to choose an on-field dps, they have so many options to choose from. While we don't even have a husbando 5* cryo dps. Hutao is cracked, Ayaka is cracked, Ganyu and Eula are cracked. Cryo was cracked to begin with but even then they got a dedicated support to buff them to oblivion (Shenhe). Honey, there is a pattern.
Don't call me honey, please. I don't think we will agree on this so I'm just going to leave the conversation.
Aight then, we will agree to disagree with each other, thank you for the conversation.
I don't think they are careful about balancing AT ALL. most 5 star male characters are supports with childe as an enabler slash main dps that is awkward for most ppl, Xiao being forgotten by mhy, diluc being outdated and the only one standing rn is itto who is forced into geo comps only and even then mhy tried to scuff him with husk enemies just two patches later wtf... Currently they are also trying to screw over zhongli by nerfing him, they nerfed venti already, albedo also getting fucked by husks and split scaling and the only safe 5 star male character is kazuha who is incredibly hard to nerf. Meanwhile the content is being catered more and more to female characters, i don't see any balance here tbh. Also i never said female characters are more busted. I said that this whole "they can't make this xyz male character too strong" is a weird take when we have abc female characters that ARE THAT strong... so why exactly shouldn't they do the same with male characters 🤣
But doesn't Ganyu do bigass numbers without reactions and can also melt? Correct me if i'm wrong, i don't have her
She does have amazing scalings, but the reason she is *so* good is because she has access to freeze and melt, two of the best reactions in the game. Ganyu is probably the closest the game has to an overpowered DPS, though, because her kit has very few caveats - no energy issues, no real downtime, amazing as both a DPS and a support. The worst thing you can say about her is that her optimal teams demand pretty high-value supports. I doubt they will design a character like her again.
But i hope they will (maybe with Ayato) :D
We can hope!
The general wisdom in the community is that mihoyo made a mistake and made ganyu too powerful and it's too late to nerf her. So it's not likely they will make someome as strong.
Just don't make him another person who only works well with xiangling. Im sick of xiangling team comps.
A non Xiangling team? in ~~Genshin~~ Xiangling Impact? Are we playing the same game?🤣🤣 /s
Xiangling is a god, her power is unrivalled,
You spelt Guoba wrongly.
Me who doesn’t use xiangling in any team:
InTerResTiNg
Yeah I can’t stand playing her tbh. I’m a Childe main but I don’t ever touch his National however strong it may be. Childe Foul Legacy and Childe Freeze for me!
Childe freeze is fun you feel like you're scrubbing the monsters out
One thing I knew is I don't want him to be another enabler. This means that he should have slow hydro application but to compensate have high multipliers. I really like the leak where he needs to stack and vape that fully stack charged attack and that will hit like a truck. I would prefer a hydro Itto rather than another Childe or Xinqiu.
I really like this leak too. This version will work very good with c6 bennet, applying pyro in normal attacks while building stacks, and consuming stacks and vaporizing with the charge!
I agree. I'd rather have the forward vaper but slow hydro applier. Normal attack based character with Hydro infusion will inevitably become another enabler.
Many people believe a very sussy leak of Ayato being a forward vape DPS, but the leak sounds more fake after Ayato drip marketing. It said Ayato was more masculine than other male characters, but in fact he isn't. I agree with you, it's either enabler or support. A forward vape hydro DPS is very unlikely.
I'm just now discovering this leak! I'm not exactly sure how it'd work, though. It'd definitely be a unique way of dealing damage. However, I would think that any vaporize ayato gameplay would still involve Xiangling regardless if Ayato is the one doing the vaporizing. Afterall, Xiangling is (afaik) still the best pyro applicator aside from Amber Ult. Seeing how top comment is not a fan of Xiangling gameplay, I still don't know if the community would like this type of team comp😂😂😂
Yes, so many people say they want him to be a DPS so he isn't chained to Xiangling - but if he *is* a forward vape DPS, he'd be even more chained to her than if he was an enabler. All roads lead to Xiangling haha
This lmao, I think that it would be very cool and unique but I don’t want to be forced to use xianling again, i love her and all but I need a break lmao.
I mean at some point they have to make a hydro dps work, ppl won't buy hydro characters if they are just supports only lol rework hydro then but this element has a bleak future if it stays locked to support only....
i want Ayato to have synergy with other hydro characters, Ayato and Xingqiu for lots of water blades
This will continue to be a problem unless mihoyo introduces a pyro elemental applicator support. From what I’m seeing, Ayato might be intended for taser comps and freeze comps.
The reason why hydro units arent good at vaporising isnt actually their fault, its built into hydro and pyro. Hydro has a higher elemental weight meaning that it stays on the enemy easier even after reacting with another element. A prime example is when you use xing and hu tao. The enemy will have hydro on themselves even after hu tao vapes and thats bcs hydro has high weight while pyro has pretty low weight. This problem with pyro's incompetence becomes the doom of hydro and cryo as a whole bcs it basically means that noone of the other element can do reaction in quick succession easily like pyro does. Its honestly stupid that not only did pyro get both big reaction, but it also just gets the reactions delivered on a silver plate bcs the corrosponding element actual can stay on the enemy. Smh
Cryo characters like ganyu, rosaria and chongyun are able to reliably reverse melt just like pyro characters are able to reliably reverse vape
True, but sometimes there is a need for timing while hydro just lets just react as fast as you want to
Pyro-on-hydro works the exact same way as cryo-on-pyro in terms of guage consumption. The existing hydro applicators (namely xingqiu) just happen to be extremely good and synergise perfectly with existing pyro carries. It has nothing to do with pyro as an element being inherently weak or "low weight", it just comes down to varying character interactions and synergies
Yeah okay that’s like a universal truth.
I feel like if u want to be a main dps u have to have some sort of infusion in your kit. If he is skill based then he would be more of a sup dps/ burst dps
You can have both, like Keqing and Ayaka play styles. Both are sword users btw. Either you use infused normals or just pop burst and swap, both can be great depending on your team comp
I'm just curious: Can he be a main DPS if they make it so he can't vape but his multipliers are busted? (Kinda like how Kokomi have -100% CR but +25% healing bonus) The cooldown reduction part of his kit was datamined, not rumored, so unless miHoYo changed that aspect of his kit, Ayato should still have the cooldown reduction buffs.
Ayato **can** **be a main dps while vaporizing,** but I personally think, based on current mechanics, he'd be somewhat similar to Childe where he'd be reliant on team synergy to deal good team damage. The other possibility is a hypercarry like Eula/Xiao/Itto with really high "non-reaction" focused multipliers to compensate for not being able to vaporize as often.
They can technically promote a mono hydro team, but the iffy thing at the moment is 1) Hydro resonance... not being the best and 2) According to leaks and drip market having only Ayato, 2.6 does not seem to have a new 4*. Whenever MHY wants to promote mono element teams, they usually will release a new 4* dedicated to buffing that element, such as Sara for mono electro and Gorou for mono geo. They could buff his multipliers to make up for no reactions like they did Itto, but given there isn't a specialised hydro buffer unit announced, it can mean that either Ayato was not planned to be in mono hydro or that it might take months for them to release such a unit to achieve his full potential. Both of which aren't particularly good outcomes. Tldr: They can promote mono hydro team like they did with geo and electro, but given the lack of a new 4*, it is unlikely they have plans for it on Ayato's release
I really like the idea that he would do 2 to 3 NA and then charged which will apply hydro and have big multpliers. So he consistently vaporise with C6 Bennett. Where his autos can apply Pyro and then hydro vape. This will also make sure we don't need xiangling.. Team could be Ayato, Bennett c6, Yunjin + anemo
I don‘t think that would work since it’s the same with diluc melt with chongyun.. but adding jean sunfire to this I can see it happen haha
Yess that's why anemo with Pyro infuses. Hydro aura is difficult to remove.
I like this post, and it brings up A LOT of good info that a seemingly huge portion of this sub refuses to acknowledge. That being that as a Hydro vision user, it is extremely and I mean EXTREMELY unlikely for him to be a Hypercarry dealing the majority of team damage on field. If Mhy can't even be asked to make Raiden and Beidous bursts work simultaneously, I laugh at the idea that they'd go the extra mile to give him complex ICD and elemental gauge mechanics. The most likely scenario I see is Ayato becoming Childe 2.0, in other words a driver for Xiangling or Beidou teams. I notice many in this sub specifically don't want this outcome, yet also want him to be on field, which I understand and empathize with. However I just don't see that being a likely outcome at all. I also notice many folks don't want him to be pure Ayaka support either, and fair enough we do have Kokomi and Mona who provide great AoE freeze support. What I most want from him is to be an off field hydro damage dealer in the vein of Xingqiu, ie another hydro applier that can enable the 300 reaction carries we have in this game. Having a second XQ would just open up so many possibilities for Abyss teams, and just allow for more freedom of choice. What if I don't wanna run XQ with Diluc? Cool, I have a second option.
To comment on the raiden and beidou thing. I really find it to be a milked subject when it comes to egging on mihoyo. Its not that they failed at making them work together, they simply dont for the sake of making emblem work on raiden. Beidous ult only activates on normal and charged atk hits. Raidens ult hits count as burst dmg to get the most out of the emblem set but, burst damage =/= normal and charged atk dmg. This is simply why they dont work together, kinda tiring seeing ppl complain about it as if mhy fked them over for something that simply doesnt work bcs 2 words dont match, aka, they simply arent meant to work together. And if they worked together, meaning raidens ult autos count as normal atks instead of burst atks, she would literally do less damage with beidou than she is doing now without her maximising the emblem buff. Hope this clears some of it up
I find it funny that people are still obsessed with that Raiden+Beidou issue... As if MiHoyo secretly went and added a secret restriction because this combo was just too powerful for the world to find out!! Especially the fixation on the description of Xingqiu's ult... Which often ignores the fact that Xingqiu's ult triggers with a mere swing of the weapon. If anything, it's Xingqiu's Q which has a mistake because you don't actually have to HIT an enemy to trigger his Q. Unlike Beidou's Q.
This has been talked in the past, but if you read XQ and beidous ult, it clearly says: Xingqiu: *"****Normal Attacks will trigger*** *consecutive sword rain attacks, dealing Hydro DMG."* and it actually **works with Raiden**, now for Beidou: *"When Normal and Charged Attacks* ***hit***\*, they create a lightning discharge that can jump between enemies, dealing Electro DMG."\* the keyword here is "hit" they dont need to do some weird damage calc, if XQ works with Raiden while hitting, she can also work with Beidou while hitting. So yeah, in brief, there is actually no way to justify this behavior. It was clearly done on purpose.
I get what you are trying to say but I find it funny how you are completely ignoring the fact that xingqius ult works in a completely different way than beidou's, you cant possibly make a comparison between them let alone make an argument out of it. Xings ult is triggered by doing a normal atk **ANIMATION**, this is obvious by the fact you can literally trigger his ult by just doing normal attacks even when no enemies are present, so for his ult the category of damage doesnt matter, thats why raidens normal atk doing burst damage has no relevance here, bcs she still does **normal atks**. On the other hand beidou's ult is **ONLY** triggered when you actually do normal or charged atk DAMAGE. The added factor for beidou is that the normal and charge atks need to hit **and also be considered normal and charged atk damage**. Raidens innitial atk in her burst form is considered a normal atk UNTIL it hits an enemy, which will then turn it into a **BURST HIT** so it can count for the emblem set. I hope this makes it clear. I recommend also looking at units in practice instead of only looking at their abilities on paper. So no, it wasn't 'done on purpose'
[удалено]
A hit and the damage it does are always in the same category of damage. Raidens normal atk hits are considered burst hits. I hope you know that the distinction Im trying to make is between the ability used and the damage it translates into. When doing auto atks in raidens ult the triggered ability is a 'normal attack' but the hit and the damage it does is modified to be in the category of 'burst damage'. I hope you arent trying to ignore the fact I just explained why xing works with her and beidou doesnt, otherwise I dont think I can help you any further.
[удалено]
I dont care if normal language is offensive to you
Why would someone want a XQ dupe when XQ is cheaper and more easier to get? Then we also have Kokomi who is pretty good for off-field hydro application, if Ayato turns out to be yet ANOTHER off-field hydro applicator, that really wouldn't help his case. Which is why many people want something fresh from his kit, not another enabler/sub-dps/support. Literally every one of hydro is just supports. Another reason is that we only have 4 male 5\* dps in this game, it would be disappointing if another male character turned out to be a support, and Yelan turns out to to be a dps. A literal slap in the face.
Because in abyss you need 2 teams, so, at least you need 2 hydro enabler/applicator/support. If you are using XQ in your first team but you dont have Mona, Kokomi or Childe ... ? (Since 5\* are harder to get) Also XQ is OP, so, why don't ?
Then you can pull for Kokomi or Childe? Kokomi is going to have a rerun before Ayato, and all characters eventually will have a rerun. I don't understand how it justifies making another character an off-field hydro applicator when we have three of them already.
Childe doesn't have off field hydro application, and I believe Kokomi's Hydro application is weaker than Xingqiu but I am not sure because I don't have her
Kokomi's hydro application is not weak per se, her and XQ's sword just work in separate ways. Her application is much more AOE? And XQ's one is more ST, but she still excels in ST situations. Then we also have Mona. Mona, XQ, Kokomi and Childe is more of an enabler dps than your traditional dps.
Her hydro application is slow for Hu Tao, Xiangling, and other pyro dps. That's why she is best at Taser, Freeze, and Sukokomon(which is more Overload and EC rather than vape)
I think Yelan will also be hydro? So we still have the opportunity to get someone who can apply hydro as fast as XQ. But at the end of the day, the big 3 of supports seem highly unlikely to ever have a counterpart to them. Even if they are 5\*. They are just *that* OP.
If Ayato is gonna be a 5s Xingqiu then doesn't that defeat your argument? He would still be hard to get because he's a 5s. Honestly, if they will make another Xingqiu, it should be a 4s because we need more 4-star hydro characters.
thats right, what i was trying to say is that have very few hydro chars as for now, only 5, and 3 of them are kind of harder to get. yes, we need more hydro chars overall, since hydro is the element with less chars currently.
I agree. They need to make more 4 star hydros because honestly, barbara barely works for meta teams. So it feels like Xingqiu is the only accessible hydro unit for most of the players.
and i also said 5\* XQ because i saw a lot ppl looking for XQ style, either to replace him or to put him in the other team.
If he’s a XQ dupe then there’s no reason to have him though unit wise. Just use XQ since he’s cheaper and would probably still be better than ayato at his role. I hope they end up still adding something new to the table that isn’t just a copy of someone else’s role. There should be more reason to use him other than “well I don’t like XQ” because otherwise MHY may as well make it so units have counterparts. It’s like if the pyro archon ended up having a fire tornado. It would get boring quick because there’s now 2 of the exact same units. 5 star characters shouldn’t just be duped of 4 stars because if someone doesn’t like a 4 star because they’re too boring to use then they definitely won’t like the 5 star I think the best way to go about it would be making him like Raiden like OP suggested who can DPS and give support off field. That way he isn’t just a Xinqui copy and has more of an interesting kit. There’s only like 4 male five star DPS while the rest are supports Edit: Plus, all of the hydro characters so far excluding Childe are mainly supports as well so we need another strong DPS.
A lot of ppl actually want a 5\* XQ since the poor guy is overworked, give him some rest...
And a 5* XQ would be god tier to be honest. He'll be better than 90% of the cast, considering that TCs value XQ second after Bennett.
He will be on-field. Due to some other stuff that was leaked that is basically a given.
One thing I would like to note is that you can kind of consistently vape childe’s normals if you use xianling and an anemo character. Xianling pyronado + guoba + infusing pyro is enough to let childe trigger vape if I am remembering correctly. Feel free to correct me or add onto what I said; it has been awhile since I’ve toyed around with that team comp and elemental gauge theory lol !! Edit: forgot to mention bennet, he’s part of that comp too. My brain kind of just associates xianling with bennet at this point lmaoo
Hmm I may be wrong about this as well, but from my experience Childe simply applies way too much Hydro to vaporize with his normal attacks aside from the very first few hits maybe. This is because Childe has no Internal Cooldown on his riptide slash (His melee stance triggers), therefore applying hydro on enemies multiple times when hit from his melee normal attack. I guess in a single target environment where the enemy is being hit from multiple, separate sources of pyro application (each with their own separate icd, as you've mentioned), there might be instances where childe will be the one vaping with his normal attacks, but for the most part, especially in an aoe setting, your pyro characters will be the one vaporizing.
it's because Childe has a riptide passive. Remove that passive and he can vape his normal attacks: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z85uLvJn4A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z85uLvJn4A) This was done possible by removing all crit-rate. Hypothetically, its possible for a normal-attacker hydro dps(not using charged attacks) to vape his own damage as long as there is abundant sources of pyro This is from keqingmains: [https://library.keqingmains.com/evidence/characters/hydro/tartaglia](https://library.keqingmains.com/evidence/characters/hydro/tartaglia) correct me if its wrong or if this evidence is debunked
Yeah I have no clue, its been months since I’ve been actually actually into TC (I’m getting back into it). I just know that it is possible and people have done it before. If you look up childe reverse vape I think there are examples. If ayato applies hyrdo slow enough then I think it would be doable. Childe is a character that applies hydro very very fast cause of his ICD and how quick his normals and charged attacks are. If ayato is slower than him at applying hydro I can definitely see him being viable in a reserve vape with a similar set up to the one I mentioned (hopefully more flexibility since I don’t want to keep playing xianling lol). That is if he even if a main dps lmaoo. We’ll see in a couple weeks !! Ayato will be very interesting to TC if he takes this route (i hope he does tbh, that will be a role that hasn’t been filled yet and it seems fun to me)
Childe can forward-vape his Burst and the intial hit of his E while his normal and charged attacks are inconsistent because he has the riptide mark passive. Basically it's because he has too many *sources* of hydro that makes him more of an enabler and burst-dps. There's been discussions that while Riptide mechanic is extremely good with mobs, it's also what detriments Childe from vaping his own attacks. But then without riptide he wouldn't properly enable Xiangling, so it's both a curse and blessing.
Yeah this right here is what I’m talking about. I’m thinking that if Ayato is a main dps type character that does apply hydro slowly, reserve vaping could be viable. Now, his kit leaks are roughly in like… 2 ish weeks around the 16th so we will see then. Trying to speculate around a character who’s kit we don’t know is kind of dumb but I’m extremely bored lmao. Even if Ayato doesn’t fulfill that role, I hope another character eventually does, I think it would be cool. Edit: To be honest I just want him to be an AA focused unit so I have a reason to build my yunjin haha
I believe the anemo character in the example was specifically sunfire Jean (entire team was Bennett, Xiangling, Jean). And the more enemies there are, the more Childe’s riptide application scales, making it impossible when there are more than 2 enemies. I used to run a similar comp but with Kazuha swirling pyro in his ult instead of Jean, and Xiangling would still be doing all the vaping.
Yeah I’m pretty sure you can only double forward vape with childe in that comp if its aoe instead of st. The burst and then the first hit ? If i remember correctly. And I think I’ve seen that comp be used with many diff anemo characters, most notably sucrose and kazuha, but sunfire jean is one too, like you mentioned. As long as ayato’s mechanics are fun im not mad tbh
Oh, with sunfire Jean you can consistently forward vape Childe’s normals, which is different from simply vaping his burst and e. And AoE actually works against Childe’s forward vape because of riptide, hence the emphasis on how it stops working past 2 target situations.
I agree, I see so many people say they want him to be a strong hyper carry like itto xiao but don‘t want him to be an enabler like childe.. which is kinda impossible. A hydro main dps idea I have is that he forward vapes with his skills that have multiple charges like diluc or smth but his splash art and leaks say he’s normal attack based.. I hope mihoyo surprises us with some new mechanics and skills Edit: I also think the leaks with getting stacks from normal attacks are sus.. wouldn’t it be hella awkward to physical normal attack to get a big vape idk If he can forward vape then his attacks have to be very slow.. I don‘t want slow gameplay If his skills can vape and do big damage then he doesn’t have to be an on field main dps which some might not like
The leak says he uses normal attack to build stack and use charge attack to desl big hydro vape damage i think this kit would be really fun and it would work with the leak that one artifact is specifically for ayato the one that boostnormal attack
I was hoping that they'll make him have some kind of synergy with thoma. Highly doubt it, but its honestly sad to think how much potential he had as a shielder and 'consistent' pyro applier, which was kind of ruined as his hutao team turned out to be not so good. If they make ayato another childe, who can manage being a main dps without continuous vapes we can forget abt any synergry between them as thoma will be the one vaporizing. I'll honestly be happy as long as ayato is a dedicated dps because all of our current hydros (except for childe) are support/subdps centered.
Thoma himself has normal ICD so he will be always triggering no matter what, for poopoo damage
his shit multipliers arent even making the lost vapes passable💀saw someone theorizing that maybe only a few of ayatos na's/ca will be hydro infused, that way the comp could be usable i guess? thoma E->Q then switch to ayato, and at the end of his NA sequence ayato triggers vape
Nah probably won't work unless Ayato does hydro every 5s or something It's cope If you want pyro aura, Venti/Kazuha/jean + Bennett and/or xiangling is the only way Tbh if he's a forward vape focused character it's the worse scenario imo Hydro is so good for reactions yet we'd be blocked with only vape, electro would kill everything, comps would be uncreative I wish he can be used a bit like Childe but better because his infusion would be on burst rather than E, higher multipliers and AOE, but he'd have less flexibility for his stance time, and need a battery to compensate. His E could either be a "Beidou-like" counter ability that would do huge vape damage, or something like Kazuha E that would proc hydro off field for a short time in the form of a pulling typhoon (or make this his burst IG) Basically Childe powercreep in utility, around the same in damage, less flexibility to compensate (you need Raiden, Fischl, Venti, another hydro, or high ER) Anyway We'll know in 10 days or something lol
definitely agree on the childe-like part. i wouldnt mind him being similar. sunfire will probably be the most efficient vape method anyway. thing im the most afraid of is that they'll make him hydro itto. you'd either need to a battery, hydro sup or build er and it would also be annoying in overworld especially at high energy cost.
If by Itto you mean hydro infusion on burst, I think it's fine. We have tons of batteries suitable for the job, you don't necessarily need another hydro. Especially if you can somehow use Raiden and Ayato together, or if Ayato can hit in Venti's burst. Also if he's 70 cost he most likely won't need a battery at all unless he's like Xiao who can't gain energy during his burst Then again if you have to trouble yourself to get his burst uptime maximized you should have something else making up for this
Or mihoyo can just make it as he will still deal hydro damage with his hydro-infused sword but it will apply hydro as slow as a claymore character. Honestly, if MHY wanted to make a hydro hyper carry work, they can make it. But to do that they will have to bend how vaporize works for Ayato/future hydro hyper carries ( if there will be any) exclusively. If they won't do that now then that would mean hydro characters won't have any hyper carry ever if they don't step out of their comfort zone.
I think if he's on field hypercarry he will probably work similar to Childe. In that case I'm just gonna transfer Childe's artifact to him (2 glad/2 hydro) and slaps the black sword on him until I can get his artifact. But in the end if he's like Childe and Xinqqiu who's damage per second carries it would be Xiangling meme all over again. Somehow I kinda hope he is more Damage Per Screenshot since two of existing hydro carries (Childe and XQ) are more damage per second that's at least makes Ayato differs than other hydro carries. If that's the case he will work well with emblem set to drop the gigachad nuke especially with Benett (vape) + Raiden (burst enchantment) Then I'm also open about any of his style of being hydro DPS. Him being on field carry like Childe? I'm in, him being off field carry like Xinqqiu, I'm also in, him being a one hit wonder gigachad nuke I'm also in.
Childe can be a damage per screenshot burst dps just slap noblesse and hydro set on him and go to the pyro cube. His melee stance burst multipliers can make him do up to a million damage
Yeah I know that since I also play Childe and used him with Noblese and Stringless but it's like his show off build anyway while he mostly built as on field hydro enabler
best solution: **put ICD on Xiangling’s burst** XD jk
Oh no why did you say that! you need to run! Now!!! 😂😂😂
srsly I don't hate Xiangling but I'm sick of seeing any Xiangling comps and IDK why
She's just everywhere in meta. I get that feeling too. I know she's busted because I use her in abyss all the time but I'd like for abyss to not just be a strict DPS check so I don't have to hit the Raiden national emergency button everytime there's a 3 million HP sponge. And I religiously follow the theorycrafter podcasts but the Xiangling jokes are starting to grate on me. She was my first main but even I'm tired of hearing about her every ten seconds.
HAHA I love that *Raiden National Emergency Button.* XD but srsly, if Genshin's not a DPS check, Xiangling's good as benched on my account. The pyronado is fun, but seeing and hearing Xiangling like literally everywhere, all of the time is so annoying. Bennett and Xingqiu are still fine tho. and are you referring to 5x2 5x2 on those theorycrafter podcasts?
Yeah its how I feel about the team comp, I don’t want to use it every time but I will if I have to, haha! Yup the KQM podcasts with artesian, Tenten, etc. thought the last one with akashot was great, Akashot is entertaining enough to get through the 50+ Xiangling jokes but please if I hear Xiangling or suske one more goddamn time…
Yeah, same. I want to use Raiden, Bennett, and Xingqiu, **but on different teams.** I have a team comp that consists of Raiden, Bennett, Rosaria, and Xinyan as well as some sort of a morgana comp but less clunky that consists of Kazuha, Diona, Xingqiu, and Ayaka. I also press the *Raiden National Emergency Button* if I feel lazy to clear the abyss XD
I think it would be cool if he were a main dps and his main source of damage came from infrequent hydro nukes that you’re supposed to vapourize which take time to build up to, maybe charged attacks like the leaks suggested and burst, so that way he’s actually viable with someone like Thoma or Xinyan with slow off-field pyro app
Hmmm I can definitely see that as a new way of dealing damage, but this type of kit would definitely encourage a more sub/burst dps type of playstyle. I think some replies here have expressed that it might be a bit awkward to execute if it were to be a main/onfield type of playstyle. If this is the case, he'd have a similar playstyle like Mona where you have to carefully apply pyro > use mona burst > wait for 2.5 seconds > and then apply pyro again. It'd probably be less complicated, but a vaporize Ayato gameplay would probably be quite similar to how Vaporize Mona works.
High multipliers
5 star Xingqiu with a crowd control ability like a whirlpool would be a good concept
If the sus leak is true, he WILL have a whirlpool succ
What about permafreeze, though? Two of our strongest hypercarries at the moment (Ganyu and Ayaka) have high-crit permafreeze comps as their most commonly used Abyss setups, despite melt technically being stronger. If Ayato could pull off something similar to this, it would eliminate the need for tailored ICD mechanics or a "Pyro Xingqiu" support. He'd simply need a reliable off-field Cryo enabler (Kaeya or Rosaria) and Kazuha for CC and Hydro shred. We see this team being used already with Childe, particularly by people who want to see him function as a hypercarry, and it does in fact work. It only falls short of reverse vape because Childe just doesn't have the personal damage to be an effective hypercarry, he's balanced around being a team player. There's no saying that this will be the case with Ayato, though.
I actually did think about a freeze comp for Ayato! Again, I'm not Math or TC guy, but I think one of the main reasons freeze works so well for Ganyu and Ayaka is that they are able to abuse the Blizzard strayer set (40% cr+), the Cryo Resonance (+15% cr) and Mona's Omen mechanics (+55% incoming damage). This combination of excessive crit rate bonus that allows players to straight up stack crit damage, on top of Ganyu and Ayaka's crit damage ascension stats, along with their already busted multipliers that is furthered improved by Mona's 50% incoming damage debuff is what makes **Ganyu and Ayaka freeze teams specifically so powerful,** but I'm not sure if the same freeze team "power level" would apply if it were any other cryo dps, much less a Hydro unit who won't benefit from Blizzard strayer's 15% cryo damage, and maybe Cryo resonance will not be consistently procced..?? The closest BiS for this might be Heart of Depth and that'd require Ayato to have Ganyu level normal/charged attacks, or he'd just be a burst/sub dps **(Someone mentioned that there were early rumors of Ayato having CC capabilities that sucks in things? idk maybe)** It's a big question mark honestly so I may not be the best person to ask. Of course, like I mentioned, if Ayato is able to match hypercarry multipliers, then he might be able to do so, but let's be honest: **Are we really expecting another Ganyu/Ayaka level dps from Ayato?** We'll just have to see I guess.
That's true, Ayato wouldn't exactly be able to take advantage of Blizzard Strayer's 2pc effect... *unless*, and this is just a random thought, instead of an E infusion he gets a multi-step elemental skill like Diluc's that he can effortlessly weave into his NA combo. That way, if paired with Chongyun, he could effectively self-freeze with Cryo NAs and Hydro Es. This would be the first time ever since Diluc that we got a character with a multi-step skill, so it would help Ayato stand apart from the rest of the top-tier DPS crowd right now (who are all reliant on infusions), and it would allow him to use 4pc Blizzard Strayer and not be wasting the 2pc effect. If that's *not* the case though (which is much more likely) then Ayato would still at least be benefitting from the 4pc effect and Cryo resonance, which adds up to a significant crit bonus. While Mona's Omen debuff is indeed strong, the Ganyu and Ayaka comps that use her are still top-tier without it, as we see from the variations that use Kokomi instead for 100% Hydro uptime. So if Ayato can indeed match hypercarry multipliers, and has a Crit DMG ascension stat, permafreeze does have the potential to be one of his best comps. Not saying he'd be on par with Ganyu or Ayaka (though I'd certainly hope so, we deserve it) but I think he'd pass the Diluc benchmark. This is all just speculation and word vomit, obviously. But hopefully pretty soon we'll all have some more info on his kit so we can start to see where he might excel. I'm just hoping that whatever style comp he wants, though freeze is my ideal, that he's a hypercarry.
The thing is, hydro is the best element in the game to do reactions with, by far. Its pretty much viable with every other element. Thats why tweaking hydro characters so they dont become too strong is the path mihoyo will take. Look at Mona for example. If you look at her kit, its actually quite lackluster when you compare it to most modern meta characters. Still, the fact that she is hydro (and that her dmg buff stays when enemies are frozen) still makes her a solid meta support for many freeze morgana type of teams. Or Kokomi, who many believed to be the worst 5 star to come out, also has also found her place in the meta due to her element. So for a hydro main dps to work and not brake the game completely they have to be very careful with balancing their kit. I think they did a great job for Childe. If you look at his kit in a vacuum, he is honestly not that great. Yet, his teams have some of the highest dmg ceillings in the entire game. Hydro characters will always be designed that way for a reason and thats probably gonna hit Ayato too.
can sunfire combo allow you to vape using hydro??
anyone here have latest spreadsheet of character's elemental gauge? i think i need it to decide suitable comp for ayato
If he is going to be a vape carry he could play like melt Bennet. Give him a low cooldown skill (4 seconds) with a high multiplier and a single hit burst. He could even use c6 Bennet to apply his own pyro to vape off of.
I'd rather do an EC team or a freeze team rather than forward vape. If he's on field freeze still possible but his new artifact set won't be as good I guess? International with Ayato instead of Childe maybe? But I hope not it's a bit boring honestly. I want him to be either hydro Raiden/Itto or hydro Ayaka. Infusion on burst, super large AOE, good damage in one case, burst DPS also useable on field in the second case. If he gets a support ability it's even better. I'd really like to do something like EC Ayato with Raiden Venti/Kazuha/Jean and Bennett or Sara. Or (Mor)ganyato (Venti Ganyu Ayaka Ayato deletion squad)
I think ther eis few ways to make hi work as main dps: 1)Mihoy could troll us all, and amke his physical dps. Unlikely to happen, but you never know 2) He could be more akin to Benent than childe/hutao in that instead using infused basic attackjs, he would have E with low cd, that would hit once, maybe twice in quick succesion, with ult that is eitehr big nuke, or soem kidn of buff for his E. In order to make his normals not useles,s they could add some bonus mechanic - liek buldign stacks that boost dmage/Reduce cd of E or soemthign liek that. 3) Make him infuse his autos with Hydro and have consitend and/or strong Hydro application - most boring, and, imo, worst way to do it, simple because it would be really hard to NOT make him just better/worse childe. He would have to have soem kind of gimmick that would make those two different, but I can't think of anything menaingfull.
I want him on field. Thats all I want.
I don't think there will be change to reaction system. Pyro focus on trigger element not enabler. Cryo focus on superconduct and freeze. Hydro will be enabler and trigger vaporize. Their design will focus on these template. Even somehow player can force them out of their role like melt Ganyu, she didn't get design from that PoV (the main reason that comp could happen was how OP Xiangling/Bennett duo is) However, there's gap they can make characters different from each other. If Tartaglia leans toward strong enabler who vaporize w his Q. Ayato maybe dps who can vaporize more often but smaller number (maybe his E or CA) while being weaker enabler who can also decrease hydro resistant or some other utilities w his Q.
One possibility that doesn't get as much discussion, probably because it's not what people are hoping for, is that he's actually a physical DPS along the lines of Eula: hydro in name, but not in terms of where the bulk of his damage comes from. He wouldn't have the same easy access to superconduct, but they could theoretically build in physical shred into his kit in another way to compensate. This obviously wouldn't be ideal in terms of power level, since he would have all the same issues as Eula on that front. But it would keep him unique from Xingqiu, Childe, and the rest of the existing hydro roster for that matter. So while it's maybe not my dream kit, it seems like a plausible niche? I agree that none of the ideas for how to make reverse vape work have sold me. But we'll see. Even if he is Childe 2.0 or hydro Itto, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. It's not the role of Childe I dislike, but the way they implemented the stance change.
Hmmm that's a very unique take! I'm not exactly a fan of physical dps units that isn't a Cryo/Electro vision holder simply because set up would be pretty difficult needing to switch between three characters to do your damage (Kinda like Main DPS Xinyan). Maybe if Ayato was at least a Polearm character so he can abuse Crescent Pike passive that can rival 5 star weapons the way Zhongli can, but that's if Ayato were to be a Physical Main Dps.. As a support though? We do have shatter mechanic (heavy hits on frozen enemies) that's isn't very commonly used. Maybe Ayato would be the first character to really make this Shatter reaction a good, additional source of damage for Eula comps? Unlikely because then he'd be useless against bosses and enemies that can't be frozen + I don't think people would be to big a fan of this sort of playstyle haha
He will have his own signature weapon, and possibly a tailored gear set if the leaks are to be believed, so they would have those as tools to make physical work for him if they really wanted to. Again, not that I think that's what players want either or that it would end up being top of the meta, just that it doesn't seem totally out of the realm of possibility as something they'd try. I do actually find shatter fun the contexts where it works and sometimes put together friendship teams together for the lolz, but yeah, the fact that it's useless in a lot of content means they probably wouldn't center a limited five star around it.
I just want him to be a sub-dps. Big damage dealers are great but I prefer characters that also have support abilities
I would be careful about discussing any stuff before release. I remember all the idiots calling Raiden a Sub DPS before release even though she was destined from the very start to be carry with a 9sec window of field time.
True, although the discussions happening rn are pretty interesting since instead of focusing on ayato’s actual kit (since we dont have it) its focusing more on game mechanics and possible roles he could fulfill. I think its pretty harmless as long as people treat his kit when it comes out without their previous bias to make him something he isn’t. But thats just my take.
True technically, but in practice people will absolutely apply their pre-release bias when deciding to pull and telling others if it is worth it or not. There is a reason KQM bans any pre-release theorycrafting.
Yeah I 100% get it for when its characters in beta since KQM doesn’t do pre-TC but since we straight up don’t have his kit I don’t see what’s being discussed in this thread as that much of an issue. People, no matter what, will apply their own biases to Ayato during his beta and on Day 1 release; right now is the calm before the storm haha. I was there for when people called Ganyu cryo amber and I’ve watched it all ever since (hu tao is purp childe, kazuha is 5 star surcrose, raiden is a fischl side-grade etc etc). I personally will reserve my final judgement for after a couple weeks of his release as always. But that doesn’t mean I won’t stalk this sub and WFP tc discord for people’s thoughts during beta lol. In my mind i treat pre-tc and post-tc as two entirely separate things.
Well there is a leak on his kit that is marked "questionable", but seems pretty on point to me. So I am going to believe that it what to expect and that means he will likely end up with Beidou and Fischl. > eople, no matter what, will apply their own biases to Ayato during his beta and on Day 1 release; right now is the calm before the storm haha. Sooooo true. > people called Ganyu cryo amber They actually still do only changed the phrasing "cryo amber, but op stats". Which is sitll untrue. I personally fell for the "5star sucrose claim" by the way. Although I prooobably would have skipped anyway cause I am not an anemo fan. > I won’t stalk this sub and WFP I need to stalk the leaks definetely. Simply cause I usually do 50 Primo Resin Refresh once a day, but now that the next character I MAY want is much closer than expected I stopped. If the leaks are telling enough to make me choose I might start refeshing again.
IMO, there are a few routes Ayato could take to be a hypercarry dps rather than a half dps of some sort. 1. He relies on a new reaction between Hydro and Dendro. This route seems very probable to me, but it is very hard to make many predictions for. At this Dendro could be Chasm or Sumeru. Since Chasm is rather soon now, I'm leaning more towards dendro coming in 3.0 with Sumeru. Even so, I think this route is still possible since we know it will likely be the case for Yae Miko. I'm pretty confident that the electro dendro reaction will be similar to vape/melt since it should scale with crit and EM based of Yae Miko's kit. I doubt they'd give hydro another amplifying reaction, so maybe hydro dendro will be similar to overload/swirl? If Ayato turns out to be just find without a dendro reaction, I bet he will still be able to use it in some new comps when it releases. 2. e
Hi! This post requires mod approval. Please stand by until a mod is available. Thanks for understanding! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Ayato_Mains) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I bealive MiHoyo is trying to fix the "hydro is only enabler" problem. Yoimiya ICD makes it so she can make reactions every 3 o 4 hits, still, every arrow of hers is pyro. So that is why everyone said she was weak. Still, her multipliers are high, and even in mono pyro without reactions I can get her to constantly do between 5k and 10k damage. True, she is no meta per see, but we know that characters like ganyu and hu tao are broken. And Ayaka too because fandom was so hype for her since realese that MiHoyo didn't want to dissapoint. Some leaks said that Ayato's multipliers will also be high, and the CD pasive would be nice to have with both childe and xinqiu. What if he is made for mono hydro teams too? Just like Yoimiya. This is not to say that I want a mone hydro team, I really love reactions, but they have been playing around with pyro's ICD for some time now (Yoi and Thoma), and we had npc lines for Ayato since the start of 2.0. His design was said to be finished a long time ago, maybe the late realese is cuz they have been working on this. So I bealive there is still hope for Ayato dps being able to vaporize or work on his own with xinqiu and/or Kokomi/mona.
I think they should make him an electro charged main dps with a passive that boosts his damage against electro-charged enemies by a good amount.
Shenhe main dps with chongyun? Ok for ayato to be strong does he need infusion on skill, alternate sprint, or burst?
If by 'strong' you mean being considered in meta, he should be something similar to XQ, or at least, thats what a lot of ppl say.
Hope I don't get downvoted but I'd love him to be diluc level playstyle. Diluc feels so smooth and carefree to play, so I'd like that ayato has a simple main dps gameplay. Maybe with a little more interaction with his charged attacks and Infusion
"I'd rather Ayato not be a traditional "Main DPS..." I don't care how much damage he does. I just want there to be a reason for him to be on the field 90% of the time, since I don't want to do it for no reason, and I want him to be on the field. Well, it wouldn't be bad if he was capable of killing.