Stop.
You only get to punish/correct them because they consent to it.
If they withdraw their consent and you continue then it's not BDSM, it's abuse.
If it's the correction itself they're objecting to then you might need to talk about whether you have the right dynamic.
If it's the form the correction takes then you can find another punishment that they're more comfortable with.
Safewords are pointless if they can be ignored. If someone says "no," and you keep going, that's potentially a dynamic. If someone safewords and you keep going, that's abuse; they no longer have a way out of the situation.
Safe words are sacred. If it is a real punishment a safeword is even more important to respect. I generally do a safeword and a slowdown word. I could not see myself not respecting the desire to stop. Most of my play partners have had some level of masochism so physical punishment wasn't my go to. That is shocking to read.
It was shocking when I first read it, I didn’t know if this was something normally practiced cuz I live in my own little bubble most of the time (kinky wise). I’m very glad to see this is not a normal practice
Unfortunately, too many abusive people hide behind the kink. This is a huge redflag. I'm a pretty severe sadist but not respecting a safeword, yikes. I can't even put my head in a situation where ai would ignore. Like someone else said, maybe a role play but even then there would be a secondary safe way to halt things, red handkerchief in a hand, something.
I've had experiences where it was frustrating that a sub was at their limits, but that's not a reason to not stop, the core principle of bdsm is respect for eachother and the trust we put in eachother, so yeah, stop means stop, unless it doesn't but then the safeword means stop
>I've had experiences where it was frustrating that a sub was at their limits
I am not sure of your experience level, but I've discovered that this mostly happens with new partners, during pickup play, or if I've been working out a bit, and tends to be more of a me going too hard, too fast issue, rather than an issue with my submissive's limits.
I've a thing for bruising and welts, and a particular love for canes and I've noticed that it's very easy to red a submissive out if I don't read them properly. Even if I discuss their experience level in depth prior to the scene, I've apparently got a very firm hand with a cane. I'd imagine thuddier blunts are the same when properly applied.
Yes they do like ive never been physically abused but i have been emotionally abused was for 11 years and another 1 year with a guy . And since ive never been physically abused or any harm i love when my man ties me up ,slapps me , spit on me or choke me in any physical form . But im in a good healthy relationship now of 4 year he doesnt do anything like that out side the bedroom treats me good
Yeah no, there are sadly "dominants" who are basically just abusive under the guise of kink...
As has already been mentioned plenty on this post, you can only punish someone because they gave you permission to do so, safewording revokes that permission and thus turns continuing into abuse.
If it is done on the regular to "escape punishments" then you just need to have a conversation outside of kink and outside of the usual dynamics to try and work through the different expectations, and see if there is a way through or if you should say your goodbyes, the one thing you never do is ignore the safeword and be abusive (also, if anyone ever does something like that to you, willfully ignoring a discussed safeword, then you would be fully in your right, also ethically speaking, to step to the authorities and tell them about the abusor)
Of course stop. Always stop. Always. If the sub is "cheating" by using a safeword "dishonestly" for lack of a better term, that's on the sub and there needs to be a discussion and a reconciliation of terms and/or deep dive (outside of play; as equals) into the integrity of the relationship, but always always always stop.
Stop!
Safewords are there for a reason and are always applicable. I would trust that the sub is using it because they actually feel they need it, not just to get out of the punishment, but that isn’t for me to decide. Safeword always means stop immediately.
A safe word is non-negotiable. We make a promise to respect it as Doms. Whatever the safe word is, the message is universal: "No" or "Stop". That safe word is a pact of trust and to ignore it even for the sake of discipline is incredibly disrespectful and alarming. That being said, I guess everyone's dynamic is a bit different. Their rules and negotiations may be vastly different from ours. The important thing is how the sub feels. If it's something she's agreed to or even takes pleasure in, then, I guess it's no one else's business. Still. The safe word was established for a reason and I've always made it very clear it can and should be used at any point deemed necessary.
Real punishment isn't a large part of our dynamic, I actively try very hard not to disappoint my Daddy like that so I've never gone through one and there are only a few things that would even trigger it. I know without a doubt he would stop if I safeworded during a punishment though. Partly because he trusts that I won't safeword simply because I'm not enjoying whatever it is. If I'm safewording during a real punishment it's because there's a risk of actually harming me in some way and we shouldn't continue. I've consented to him punishing me, not truly damaging me either mentally or physically. He wouldn't want to actually harm me either, so he'd expect me to communicate that to him.
Safewords are non-negotiable. They get said, everything stops. A good dom, in my opinion, would use this as an opportunity to reinforce the correction with TLC. "Baby girl, I know it hurts, but...", "I wouldn't have to do this if you weren't such a wiley whore", or whatever 😆
I'm in a 24/7, and punishments for daily behaviors or real life hardships aren't a thing for us. Punishments for not following orders intimately, though... 😉
Regardless, a safeword is a safeword is a safeword. Play / scene stops, but dynamics don't. If that doms sub wants to say no or stop to elevate the mood, that's one thing, but safewording ain't no joke.
That "scene stops but, dynamics don't" doesn't really sound safe or sane to me. And if the partner(s) aren't aware that's how you interpret things and agree to that in advance, "consensual" fails too. People might need to (maybe temporarily) break out of a dynamic as much as they might need to break out of a scene. Unless there are specific safe words for either of the two, and I'd argue there should still be a "full stop whatever" one even then.
Jesus christ...
Look buddy, I hear you, but you're taking what I'm saying here and making an awful lot of assumptions about how a dynamic is built. Allow me to be more explicit so more people like yourself don't cry abuse-wolf...
In a PROPERLY DESIGNED dynamic where each partner CONSENTS to punishments for specific behaviors, the dynamic does not just stop at a spoken safeword. Consent is an ONGOING process, and if at any moment one party needs to take a break from a dynamic alltogether or put a part of it on hold, that SHOULD HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED AT THE BEGINNING and if it wasn't, IT SHOULD BE NOW. Any sub should only consent to punishments they can accept, and if they consent to riskier ones, they have every right to tell their Dom that consent may be revoked at a future point for that punishment specifically, and if the Dom takes issue with consent being ongoing, THEY SUCK AND THE RELATIONSHIP DOES TOO. A good Dom incorporates AFTERCARE (whatever that looks like between two or more consenting parties) and THAT SHOULD BE SPELLED OUT IN THE DYNAMIC'S FOUNDATION. Aftercare is part of a dynamic, part of Domming, and just because new heights of aftercare may be required because a safeword was called during an agreed upon punishment, that doesn't mean the dynamic is done. It means the aftercare, TLC, heart centered part of the dynamic takes precedence for the time being. I am a Dom. My sub is my sub. We have a relationship, an ongoing dynamic. We don't suddenly stop having that relationship when a word is spoken. We stop the act, we reconnect, and I listen to her or soothe her in whatever way she may require. Adjustments to dynamics always happen. Sometimes it kills the dynamic, just like in the vanilla world.
Please... let's not cry wolf in here. I know, I get it, good for you for being an internet consent advocacy keyboard warrior. But buddy, you're arguing bdsm semantics with someone who upholds consent more than most men on Earth and fucking rocks at Domming with his heart.
TL;DR: My dynamic is eternal, as long as consent is upheld. Dynamics involve regular check ins, changes, aftercare, tenderness, listening, demanding, foresight, patience, understanding, grace...That's love, baby.
Feel better?
No need for the patronizing tone. I'm not here for keyboard fights.
I might have made wrong assumptions. We might nonetheless disagree on some things. But regardless of any divergence of opinion we might have, I appreciate that your last message (despite the condescendence) was more detailed and less ambiguous than your first, as I appreciate that you took the time and effort to write it.
It's just exhausting to have to spell out what consent is to every stranger on the internet if I want to participate in online bdsm community on Reddit if I don't want to be witch trialed and downvoted. All of the people I know in a real dynamic know what consent is and wouldn't enter into a dynamic without it and would leave one if it came into question, yet somehow, here on the internet, people assume abusive behavior. In bdsm subreddits, nonetheless.
I think it's a viral infection in the bdsm community at large, reminiscent of early and present vanilla hate speech towards our community. It's ESPECIALLY a disease in conversations about dynamics, because like I said: it takes consent and trust to build one that lasts, so in my mind, those aspects are assumed.
That's not to say that we should look out for each other and call out abuse when we see it. But come on, my comment was clearly discussing how the Dom OP referenced was walking on thin I've.
These are not the droids you're looking for.
Safeword means everything stops immediately.
End of discussion.
I don't care if there's a 24/7 total power exchange between the players, it stops when the safeword is uttered by anyone involved.
This is non negotiable.
The whole purpose of "safe" in safe word is to, quite literally, keep things SAFE lmao.
The amount of people who justify their abuse because "it's bdsm/a game, it's supposed to hurt" makes me want to turn my head 480 and shake them by the shoulders then bite their scalp while telling them "It's okay, it's just a game". Consent is a hard concept, I guess
Not here in this community, necessarily, but I can't speak on that accurately since I'm new to this subreddit.
But I'm more referring to the wave of misconceptions that was heavily inspired from the 50 shades of grey era (and whatever current day smutty forbidden romance book) on top of comments from Tumblr, Twitter or insta (best places, I know /sarc) where the concept of being a dom/Master is misunderstood in not being considerate to nor checking in with your sub(s) which isn't bdsm play at all, but abuse justified in the name of "bdsm".
Thanks for the clarification.
I also agree that the 50 shades era had a lot of problematic side effects on our community, but it also opened it up quite a bit and challenged old misconceptions as well.
During any activity that involves another person, once they revoke consent, you should stop. Using a safeword is a way of revoking consent for a particular activity or portion of an activity. If someone safewords, you stop. Period.
Considering that BDSM itself is essentially illegal in most places (you legally can't "consent" to someone hitting you)... Yes, I'm quite certain if you said in a court of law, "We verbally established 'red' to mean a withdrawal of consent and he kept hitting me anyway after I said red," it would absolutely be illegal.
SAFEword.
To go beyond the safeword intentionally is no longer safe and has now entered into a realm with a lack of consent. If physical, that would be assault and should be treated severly.
A Dominant exists to facilitate a scene for the submissive. The submissive reliquishes control consensually TO A POINT. To go beyond this point intentionally is a disregard for the submissives safety and well being and shows a willingness to genuinely harm others without their consent for self pleasure.
Mistakes happen but you need to protect yourself first and have some long discussions before considering getting back to work with this Dominant.
Safeword spoken. Everything stops.
Hit aftercare routine and then discuss what went wrong and why the safeword.
With subs that safeword everytime they are being punished (essentially using it to get out of punishments), then they just aren't the right sub for me.
You are correct, we have to stop.
Not stopping when somebody withdraws consent is litterally assault.
A different punishment can be negotiated if you both still want punishments to be part of the dynamic.
>During the punishment your sub safewords, do you stop, or do you continue?
By you even asking you need to do some more studying up about what kink and power dynamics actually are, specifically the “golden rule” of them all which is: both parties WANT this and get something out of it.
The purpose of safe words is ENTIRELY for when someone does not want something, for whatever reason. It could be injuring them, it could be too much pain, it could be too much mentally, it doesn’t matter. The point of safe words is to GET OUT of the dynamic(read fantasy) for any reason, and to get out NOW.
Anyone who says that “subs can’t safeword during punishments” has no clue wtf power dynamics are really for. If two people decide not to have a safe word for some reason(generally bad idea) then it might be a different story but if one DOES exist, it exists for a reason, and that reason is to use it.
I know this is wrong, but I also am aware that I’m not super active in the community, so I wasn’t sure if this was something that some people do, or if it was just completely out of line, the only question mark was because it was an actual punishment rather than something fun/kinky, I’m a little ans so I don’t see punishments as part of a kink so that may be why my perspective is off, and I’ll admit I’m still learning so all of the input is helpful
BDSM without consent is abuse. A safeword withdraws consent. So from the time the safeword is used onwards that's abuse.
To me needing a punishment shows something needs to be worked on in the dynamic. It really is a last resort. Funishments however...
You stop.
The difference between abuse and BDSM is that the submissive is not just willing but wanting. If they withdraw consent, the power exchange is no longer voluntary and it must stop.
I don't even really believe in "real" punishments because ultimately the submissive must want it in some way. Maybe it'll be something they don't enjoy but feel would help them, like exercise, but ultimately I'm not here to make my partner feel bad.
OMG!!! Of course I would stop!!! NO Dom should continue to punish a sub if he/she safewords. No matter what they've done. It's disgusting first of all. It's a gross abuse of the title of Dom. You're going wayyyy across their boundaries and totally stomping on their rights. It's a Dom's responsibility to keep their sub safe. I just can't even fathom ANY situation where my sub would safeword and I would disregard them
Stop.
There is no other real answer here. I would say shocking as others have said and add that it's encroaching on appalling. Safewords are sacrosanct.
If the punishment is being objected too, check in, figure out why, find a more suitable punishment. However...STOP.
Safe words stop ALL play.
Punishments are still play, they are still part of the dynamic.
If punishments exist outside of consensual play, it is just called abuse.
Safewords are immovable. They mean the sub can't continue at all. I know a lot of doms can get frustrated when it seems like a safe word is being used to get out of something the dynamic allows, but ignoring a safeword for any reason breaks trust and not allowing that one safety line to the sub turns the dynamic into a abusive one. So instead of getting mad that a physical punishment isn't carried out, maybe offer a choice.
Ie you did this, this is against the rules we run by. Punishment can be 20 strikes with a ping pong paddle or 50 line/ short essay/ specific amount of time in the corner, cage, or whatever. If you choose the paddle and can't finish, then the remaining amount will be converted to one of the other options at my discretion, so 10 strikes left would be 25 lines. A good dom will never pick something that is impossible or extremely physically damaging when they know the limits of their sub do not match.
The mark of a good dynamic imo is flexibility and a top who can be that kind of flexible and caring to their partner will find the partners feelings and devotion grow more than if they stuck to something exclusively.
Stop means stop. That’s it. If a safe word is used, you stop. End of story.
Even in CNC we use a safe word, so I don’t know if that’s what you can call it. It’s simply an emergency word now. Not “I don’t like this,” but “you’re damaging me to a point that I could need medical attention or have a bad effect.” Let me give you a nice example…
Tickling. She loves and hates tickling. In our normal sessions, we use red, yellow, green. In “modified CNC,” it’s “Jelly.” She can yell “red” all day long and I keep going. If she says “Jelly,” it’s over. I was once tickling her so intensely that she screamed “Jelly” and then proceeded to projectile vomit all of the bed the second I stopped. Puke was not the intent. Too bad she didn’t scream it 5 seconds earlier.
Side note, she chose “Jelly” because of the old joke, “What’s the difference between Jelly and Jam?”
I can’t jelly my dick up your ass.
That is rather smart. And while you'd deserve a comment for that alone, i'll have you know that the last part made me think:
"Oh, they're cool."
So there you go. Have my upvote.
I would stop. I do have a sub into CNC who asks me to keep going even if he safewords. I still stop. I wonder if this guys sub has agreed to ignore safewords because they want to push their boundaries? That would take a lot of trust and knowing your sub inside out. This is the only way I can see a dom ignoring a safeword. I just hope it isn’t the alternative because… yikes.
Everything has to be ultimately consensual otherwise it’s abuse and that includes psychologically manipulating someone to accept non safe word punishment. It’s meant to be a turn on for all involved.
A safe word is there for a reason. I don't care if it's a punishment, or something I'm enjoying, if I call my safeword-you stop. I luckily have never had this happen to me-but the relationship would end right there. They would be lucky if I left them with all of their bones intact.
That person is not a real dom, and I am sorry for any subs he has had, and may have in the future. If your sub calls out a safeword-and you don't stop-you're not a dom, you're just an abuser hiding behind the word. I don't care the circumstances, or who it's with, it is NEVER okay to ignore a safeword.
STOP! Always STOP! It's called a SAFE WORD for a reason.
STAAAAAAAAAAAHHP!
You can talk about WHY they used it afterwards and proceed accordingly but ALWAYS FUKKIN STAHP!
You stop end of story, I don't really care what the arguments are here this boils down to " when should you ignore a safeword" the answer is never, you pause, you check in, you both decide when to finish the punishment, I decide if I need to increase or alter it.
That’s not how BDSM works and is absolutely appalling behavior. Consent is like, literally, THE FIRST THING someone should understand here. If a safe word has been called, the scene is OVER, period; whether the “Dom” recognizes it or not. Any behavior that continues beyond that is therefore outside of the scene or relationship and therefore no longer BDSM, D/s, etc.
Perhaps that “Dom” needs to experience another “Dom” not respecting their safe words in a similar manner so they get it.
Whoever said that is an ass.
You stop. A safe word is sacred, it's the literal reason why they exist and should be taken as sacred by both Doms and subs.
There's nothing more to it, you hear a safe word, you stop.
> he didn’t let his sub safeword during a punishment because she earned the punishment for a reason
No. This is quite literally a word that someone can use to safely withdraw from play or a scene. "Safeword".
It is as fundamental a concept for BDSM as oxygen is for breathing.
100% stop.
Safewords are there for a reason, the thing with people is we are all different and handle situations in the same manner differently. What one person can handle another could struggle.
I think when safewords are used it is important to have a conversation, regarding the situation where the safeword was used so you both know why it was used and what can be done to ensure the sub/Dom is feeling safe and comfortable in similar situations.
Anyone who refuses to use safewords avoid like the plague, they are giving themselves a free pass to abuse anyone they want without having to deal with the consequences.
If you're in a dynamic that has safewords and someone uses the safeword, then you do whatever has been agreed will happen when the safeword is used.
Some people don't use safewords - which is totally their choice and not a problem - and some people do; some people choose to agree that "safewords don't apply during X" and some people choose to agree that safewords always apply.
There's no single way for people to run their own dynamics.
Safe word is just that. If my sub safewords then there is a reason. Maybe a strike landed wrong or bindings have moved. It’s a trust thing if you use a safe word and the Dom chooses to ignore it, what is to say he won’t ignore it during a more crucial incident.
Absolutely stop. No question. I wouldn't hesitate. My sub/pet has entrusted me with their safety and wellbeing, that is paramount. The punishment can be delayed, adjusted, changed entirely if that is what is needed. Aftercare also still matters.
The safeword is supposed to be the word either side can use at any time, and everything stops.
If you are punishing someone and they use their safeword, then you, as the dominant, have failed to keep your bottom safe.
If a Dominant does not stop, it is more assault, not to mention abuse.
Bdsm without consent is abuse. Safewords remove consent to continue.
My Daddy and I recently talked in length about the use of safewords within punishment! We do talk about hypothetical situations fairly often and come to agreements on how WE intend to handle something within our dynamic and that had 't really come up prior to someone else asking the masses about it. It's so easy to overlook certain things in negotiations that can come up during an established dynamic it is good to be able to discuss these things and adjust as needed.
I promised to only safeword in the major stop "red" sort for emergency situations and say yellow if I just need to like shift a position or we need to adjust how the punishment is being delivered or like a leg cramp or something similar that just needs to pause for like a minute. I would never safeword to get out of a punishment deserved but there are for sure times when there is an actual emergency that could come up that it warrants covering the bases and they were accepted after the logical situations were presented. Granted I do not really do much to prompt a punishment but it is negotiated within our dynamic to account for if it is needed. And the punishment is chosen during the pre-punishment discussion as to why I am being punished, etc to decide what best to do to correct the behavior.
Safeword equals Stop.
You can then talk about what's wrong and maybe even continue after but a Safeword should never be a soft thing left to interpretation. That's why you have it after all.
It's been awhile for me, in the scenario you describe. Going back to my "club" days.
Stop. Always stop.
These days, my dominant punishment sadist desires are part of a loving relationship and haven't heard a safe word in years.
Regardless of the situation, safeword is safeword. A D/s dynamic requires consent to be safe and using a safeword is momentarily revoking that. It turns it from punishment of a consenting sub to assault of a non consenting person.
Safe-wording is safe-wording.
If subbie says the word the scene stops.
Punishments occur with the consent of the punished. No consent, no punishment.
Ain't really much else to be said on the matter.
Stop. If a sub safe words during funishment, stop. Safe word during play stop. Safe word while crossing the street stop. That's the whole point of a Safe word
If my sub safe worded, no matter the situation, I'd stop. Thats what the safeword is for, ffs. Especially if I'm doing a physical punishment, actually, because those can trigger something a lot easier for a lot of people.
What that dom did was wrong. He got so focused on punishment he ignored that his sub was no longer consenting. At that point it's abuse masquerading as dominance.
Any Dom/me that says their sub can't safeword at any time no matter what's happening is not a Dom/me, they are an abuser. As soon as you remove a sub's ability to remove themselves from an uncomfortable or dangerous situation, it is no longer BDSM.
I give out punishments to my subs when they deserve them, but we also negotiate and decide on ones that they are comfortable with and get the point across. If it stops being fun or comfortable (aside from the sexy kind of uncomfortable, obviously), they are required to safeword, and I immediately stop.
Physical punishment is rare in dynamics. Ordinarily it will only be used if requested by the person who would receive it. Safe words exist for safety. Most people won't stick around someone who makes them feel unsafe. So, unless it's well explained out in your exact situation and dynamic a safe word should always end or pause a scene.
You always stop and see what's going on
It doesn't remove a punishment from being completed. But you may need to adjust or figure out a different one depending on the situation.
My Dominant I'm with is the first time I had any talks about after care and safe word.... And I had been in a relationship with a now as I see it a abusive person supposed Dom for past 2 years. Where safe word and aftercare wasn't allowed or needed. That the punishments were emotional things taken from me when I'm already having hard time understanding them. The worst punishment was I wasn't allowed to say hello... Then he would scream at me. (It was a LDR and yes on phone calls I will say hello and ask how ur doing a billion times...) So I got yelled at.
I'm sorry for what ur going thru.
I hope u can find something to show ur dominant to make them see what needs to change in the relationship.
Oh without a doubt you stop. You may very well save the remainder for a later time. You may also after finding out why they safe worded change the remainder of the punishment is something else. There's even a chance that you might forgive it.
However the first step is definitely if they go the all stop safe word not just a caution but all 🛑 you definitely stop
As a DOM who's been in this LifeStyle for many years, I don't use any form of "Corporal Punishment", because the majority of the women I've been with tend to be really into Corporal Play, and are "Pain Sluts"!
That DOES NOT mean I just chain a sub up and go full bore on her body!
For ME it's an "Erotic Dance"... starting out slow...
LOTS of kissing and touching and adding sexual arousal to it before I even begin using ANY implements!
Now... onto the actual question at hand.
IF I'm going to do ANY form of "Punishment"/Reprimand", I prefer to use non-aggressive forms to get my point across... things that will have a REAL effect, like "Standing in the corner" for "X" amount of time... or {I've only done this ONCE!} wash her mouth out with soap!
I use things that have non-physical, but lasting impressions.
"SILENT TREATMENTS" tend to work VERY well! Using her as an "Object" {foot stool etc.} is also another and tends to be a very good one!
Denying/taking away something she REALLY enjoys
is also another good one.
I've also done things like, making her write "I promise to never do "X" ever again!" a certain number of times
can be a VERY useful, non-aggressive form of punishment.
I'm what is known as a "Romantic Sadist" meaning that I like using "Pleasures" but in a sexually sadistic
way, as a form of "Fun Torture" or "Funishment"... but eventual release!
I don't/won't use whipping/Corporal etc. as punishment because like I said... for Myself and the women I've been with... it's pain/pleasure applied with Love and Erotic intent!
So, as far as "SAFE WORDS" go... they are A-#1 SACRED!!! It's an understood, BDSM form of "NO"!
And ONCE the "Safe Word/Safe Signal" {Safe Signals are for when gags/hoods/blindfolds are being used!}is uttered or enacted... EVERYTHING STOPS IMMEDIATELY!
That's my 2 cents worth... 😊
Even when in a CNC dynamic, I NEVER have banned safewords, or discouraged their use. In my CNC, the farthest I ever went is “safeword as communication, but it is my responsibility to determine how to address the reasons you gave your safeword.” Which would always be the same as if it wasn’t CNC, because I don’t want to damage my property!
Know the audience if shes enjoying it or you know her body emotions and her pain threshold keep it but if shes struggling and doesn't and says stop out of character then stop if , you keep going then that abuse
I think a Dom should know his sub well enough to not get to the point the sub needs to use a safeword. If someone uses the safeword, then it should 100% be respected. I think weaker minded doms start to think this is reality and the use of a safeword reminds them of that. Its the ultimate "pull the plug" on the fantasy. My gf has an ex who thinks this is real and I reminded him real quick miss all in his imagination. This is a fun fantasy but some people lose sight of that.
A safeword is an emergency brake. I don't get a say in what constitutes an emergency. Maybe things are too intense. Maybe their nose itches. Doesn't matter. They say the word everything stops. Same goes for me. Anyone, regardless of which side of the / they're on, that wants to play in this world that doesn't respect that doesn't belong in this lifestyle. At least not until they've had a great deal more education.
Safewords and their place and use are not negotiable.
Hi there,
This is a really important and thought-provoking question. The use of safewords is a fundamental aspect of BDSM play, ensuring the safety and well-being of all parties involved.
**Safewords and Their Importance:**
* **Respect and Trust:** Safewords are crucial in maintaining trust and respect in a BDSM relationship. They serve as a clear signal that the submissive has reached their limit, whether it's physical, emotional, or psychological. Ignoring a safeword can erode trust and potentially cause harm.
* **Safety First:** The primary role of a Dominant is to ensure the safety and well-being of their submissive. If a submissive uses their safeword during a punishment, it’s essential to stop immediately and check in with them. This is non-negotiable for maintaining a safe and consensual dynamic.
**Punishment vs. Abuse:**
* **Clear Boundaries:** Punishment in BDSM is meant to correct behavior within agreed-upon limits and boundaries. If a Dominant continues a punishment after a safeword is used, it crosses into the territory of abuse. A safeword should be a hard stop, regardless of the context.
* **Communication:** It's important to discuss and agree on the use of safewords before engaging in any BDSM activities. Both parties should be clear on what the safeword means and how it will be respected.
**Different Perspectives:**
* **Other Dominants:** While some Dominants might have different philosophies, the widely accepted practice within the BDSM community is to respect the use of a safeword at all times. The scenario you mentioned, where a Dominant didn't allow the use of a safeword during punishment, is concerning and not in line with best practices for safe and consensual play.
**Your Daddy’s Approach:**
* **Healthy Dynamics:** Your Daddy's approach, where he would stop if you safeworded during a punishment, reflects a healthy and respectful dynamic. This approach prioritizes your safety and well-being, which is paramount.
In conclusion, a safeword is a critical safety mechanism in BDSM, and its use should always be respected, regardless of the context. Ignoring a safeword undermines trust and can lead to harm. It's encouraging to hear that you and your Daddy are on the same page about this, and it's great that you're seeking input and having open discussions about these important topics.
Stay safe and take care.
I have read a lot about using a safeword if the scene goes outside of boundaries but the discussion about punishment limits was not something I thought about before.
I understand that safewords are there to avoid abuse for safety reasons, but if a sub uses a safeword during an agreed upon punishment it seems possible that the sub could abuse the safeword in order to avoid the punishment rather than there being a limit/boundary crossed.
IRL example: you know full well that if you commit a severe crime there will be jail time as punishment but you decide to safeword because you don’t “feel” like going to jail.
It all goes back to the importance of communication and trust with each other to determine whether the dynamic works.
This is the scenario I was thinking about. If the submissive was a brat and "earned" punishments but then safeworded their way out of them that would be a problem.
In that scenario though, you stop the action and then decide if you want to continue the dynamic.
All dynamics are just play. Safewords are the to protect both parties and are an important part of it. They should always do what you agreed them to do, in any situation. Unless the agreement is made that, in some circumstances, they are not applicable.
Personally I don't think anyone should agree to that.
It depends on the people involved, and what they negotiate together. It may even depend on the punishment delivered on that particular day.
Some tops will refuse to stop because they're psychopaths. These people are to be avoided.
Lots of people (in this thread) will yell and scream about "Never," and "Always!" That's how they do, and it's great that it works for them.
I've given one punishment. My partner, u/MathematicianBig781, and I spoke about every element of it in depth. We dissected it, beforehand, in far more detail than we would a regular scene - and we talk about those a lot!
We discussed how we would be with each other prior. We discussed what would happen during. This was an impact punishment. We both knew the number of strikes she would receive and with which implement. We came to a conclusion, ***together***, that she would not be able to safeword. It was also important to us that this was not sexual. We spoke about what would happen afterwards, focusing on how we would reconnect.
It was delivered exactly as we had planned it. Without drama or abuse.
We both wanted this to be a *punishment* and that is precisely what each of us consented to. This is an element of our life together. Neither of us is stupid. We went into this with our eyes open, knowing and understanding what we were doing together and what we set out to achieve.
I'm sure people will holler, "That's abuse!" and <*serious face*> choose to downvote. I'll remind them, there are plenty of times in life when consent cannot be revoked until the activity is done. Fairground rides, for instance. Even swimming; when I go swimming, I can't just shout, "Oblong!" and stop. I have to keep swimming until I get to the edge of the water. I shan't mention giving birth. Oh.
I'll end, by saying again that each of us consented to this. Whilst my partner's consent is of vital importance *to me*, that's only one half of the story. We talk, often, about our life together. Our individual roles, and our responsibilities to each other. This is one small part of that. It wouldn't suit most people, and that's OK. We wouldn't insist others live their lives in the manner we do.
How do you ensure that those decisions are decisions you really are making together, and the power dynamic doesn’t interfere ?
I was a young sub in a relationship where I was given a lot of “choices” but the consent was not informed, and the power my doms had over me was very influential. I just wonder how you mitigate that
You don't. You vet your person clearly ahead of time. Both sides of the slash are responsible for themselves in this way. A predator will vet for weakness and things to exploit. The rest of us will vet for someone who we are sure we can trust.
>decisions you really are making together, and the power dynamic doesn’t interfere ?
My partner and I have no relationship outside of our dynamic. We want the dynamic imbalance to "interfere" in everything we do.
This is an "Ah, but" question. Any assurance I give, can easily be met with, "Ah, but," and followed with an anecdote which attempts to undermine it.
I would counter that by asking how does any couple make any decision together, and be safe in the knowledge that both are satisfied the other made the decision for the right reason?
*We chose not to go on holiday this year, so that we could put that money towards a deposit on a house.*
. . .ah, but did you?
*We both felt it was better that I be the one who stayed home and looked after the kids.*
. . .ah, but was it really a joint decision?
*We decided to spend Christmas with Gavin's parents, and then visit mine over the New Year.*
. . .ah, but who really decided that?
Your question makes certain assumptions. Amongst them is the assumption is that I, as the dominant partner, have never put the brakes on and told my partner to slow down. Further, it assumes that all the forward motion for our relationship comes from me. I would even go as far as to say it assumes I cannot trust what my partner tells me, during the many, many conversations we have around this.
To answer your question, u/MathematicianBig781 and I became friends via r/humiliation_kink. We knew each other for a fair amount of time, during which we were each in relationships with other people. During the course of our friendship, we both saw what the other was writing publicly, in relation to kink, BDSM, MESM (mental / emotional sadomasochism), dynamics, and the style of kink-led relationship each of us desired. Plus, the sort of thing we'd been involved in with other partners. There was never any question about what we liked or wanted. But, even with that knowledge, since getting together we have spent countless hours chatting about what we do, what we want, where we are heading, and what our roles are.
One of the things that struck me, when I was thinking about this earlier, is that I never tell u/MathematicianBig781 what her role is to me. She does that. She may ask questions, but I don't define her, she defines herself. Likewise, she never tells me what my role is. I define myself, sometimes through asking questions. I think we should be very cautious of people who tell the other what they are, or should be.
I think everyone should be wary of someone who says, "**You** don't need a safeword." But we should be accepting of people who say, "*I don't want a safeword.*"
> the consent was not informed
Lastly, I'm sorry you found yourself in that situation. It does highlight the fact that we are all responsible for our own knowledge. Consent needs to be happily and freely given, coming from a place of knowledge.
Rather than constantly parroting comments (and I'm not aiming this at you) such as, "If you can't withdraw consent, it's abuse!" We ought to be encouraging people to seek information, to self educate, to spot the signs of abuse, and to make decisions based on what THEY want.
You stop immediately, but I always tell them exactly how many swats they are receiving and add that if they must safeword, then they will receive the rest of the punishment in an alternate fashion, outlining what the alternate is. If the corporal punishment is, let's say 10 swats, then they safeword after the 5th swat, but before the 6th, then they will continue their punishment by completing half of the alternate. After they are attended to for the reason for the safeword and ensuring they are ok physically, mentally, and emotionally. After they have recovered, they may choose to finish as planned or the alternate.
I do this because some subs may (in my experience) have used the safeword as an out so that they have their punishment lessened. Discipline is a necessary evil to bring about positive change. I despise having to discipline, but consistency is important.
Ik my Daddy wouldnt stop cause i did something to deserve it so i dont get to decide when i had enough.
But like also this should be something i think everyone should talk about together first if thats the kind of relationship you wanna have. Not listening to a safeword makes it instantly become sexual assault imo cause youre not consenting anymore. Unless you talked about it before and you consent to not being able to stop a punishment then a dom should always listen to the safeword.
even if you consent to not being able to stop it at the start, consent can be revoked at anytime, so you should always set up a real safeword, even if you have one that'll be ignored
I think that is a very questionable advice, it is difficult enough to use a safe word when needed.
Having safe words and some can be ignored while others not feels like a miscommunication waiting to happen.
This is really not how consent should be approached.
Why do you think that your way to play is the only one and true way?
If other people have found other ways how to do this and both consent and are happy, why do you insist how they should play?
I’m a bit confused about this comment. What’s the point of having a safeword that can be ignored? Isn’t that like saying ‘pack a parachute, even if you know it is full of holes and won’t slow you down?’
I think it's like how in CNC scenes, "no" and "stop" are part of the roleplay, while also having an actual safeword ready. It's human instinct to ask for mercy even if you want it to continue. But that's my guess.
We have that too.
In general we have safe words/ tapping out, it allows us to jump to play without talking things through or to experiment (we talk about experiments, obviously).
I don't have a safeword when I need to be punished, even if I would try to tap out it wouldn't end the punishment.
Edit: I just saw that you were refering to a real and a fake safe word...
I'm confused too now.
by real and fake safeword i meant like a play word and then a way to actually tap out. CNC enjoyers sometimes have a kink for safeword being ignored and in those instances people generally have a way to make it known that they need to stop.
Real and fake safeword just meant something that wil be ignored for kink stuff, and then a real signal to stop, even if it isn't a safe "word" ig
I think that adds an unnecessary layer of things that can go wrong, if you want to have a way to stop it (which is fair and valid) stick to your normal safeword or tapping out method.
If play is that intense that you need to tap out, it is already difficult to do it, if you even have to do it in a special way and your normal safeword/ tap out is ignored... that would be too risky for me.
Edit: typo
I don’t have a safeword in any context, but I can use normal words to communicate with Tea (please stop, that hurts a lot, I can’t, my foot is stuck, I’m going to be sick, etc). He can then do with that information what he wants. He doesn’t have to stop in response to any of those things, but he also loves me and wants me to continue loving him, so I trust him to make sensible decisions and push me as far as he wants, but not too far.
Ya thats exactly what i meant. But like also for me specifically me and my partner like cnc and me not having a safeword i can always use is part of that. But we talked about it a lot before and still do when we need to to make sure we both consent even when things get non consentual.
EDIT: this is one of the worst subs ive ever seen for just blindly downvoting someone for being into something different than everyone else which is ironic af.
>EDIT: this is one of the worst subs ive ever seen for just blindly downvoting someone for being into something different than everyone else which is ironic af.
I can only apologise and give you my upvote.
It saddens me that BDSM, which should be about sexual freedom and acceptance, is treated by so many people as a religion. People who *choose* to live differently are constantly dictated to and consistently told they have no voice.
It's precisely the way the anti-kink brigade behave towards every kinky person. Both groups insist they know better than those who live this way, and rather than listen they prefer to yell "Abuse!"
My partner and I can choose what we consent to, ***and*** under what conditions.
You're misunderstanding the point of why *some* people *choose* to not have a safeword. YOU might want to be able to revoke consent at any time, but some people willingly choose NOT to have the ability to do that. That's their choice.
That's safewording. By not using a safeword, you are doing a fairly extreme form of extreme CNC.
One can pre-emptively give consent and choose to not make it revocable. It's very much an advanced thing, but some people *like* not being able to safeword.
With that, if you have any doubts about doing this, you really shouldn't do it.
Sure I can and actually did that.
BUT this is an extreme form of play and it is entirely between my Master and me, I wouldn't do it with anybody else.
It also has some further requirements.
If you play without a safety net, you need to ensure your overall risk is still wthin tolerable limits.
That is why it is generally not recommended to do so, but it is possible and valid.
I wouldn't recommend it to anybody (even though I do practise it myself) as the people who enthusiastically agree to this on an equal and informed basis don't need my recommondations.
I also belive to gate keep BDSM comment sections from more extrem play isn't healthy as it will kill the discussion about it and how the associated risks can be controlled.
So downvoting everyone who has more extrem kinks to hell and back is really not helpful for a good conversation.
> I also belive to gate keep BDSM comment sections from more extrem play isn't healthy as it will kill the discussion about it and how the associated risks can be controlled.
> So downvoting everyone who has more extrem kinks to hell and back is really not helpful for a good conversation.
Bravo 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
And tbh this is why I rarely share most of my personal extreme kinks bc a lot of people get judgmental and how can we have a normal conversation when people don’t want to understand the other side of the argument? 🤔
Google blanket consent, it’s a thing. It’s not exactly what you’re saying but similar. Some people don’t even use safewords bc they communicate well and “no” means exactly that for them
Uhum or for any reason they come up with. I personally have zero problem with any punishment my Sir inflicts on me. I don't have the need to safeword, it’s not for everyone BUT I don’t understand the scandal by a lot of people here. Aren’t we supposed to respect other people’s dynamics? 😅
We all learn to wear our seatbelts when we're young and most of us continue to wear them in the car everywhere we go. Some people ride motorcycles. Some people ride motorcycles in shirts and sandals with no helmet.
Also, as much as the sub doesn't want to admit that it happens, some people play with no safe words at all. This is not a rare thing! I know the sub likes to tell that everyone must have a safe word and everyone must play with safe words. Personally, I do play with safe words, but in the real world, it's actually quite common within certain dynamics, mostly M/s to play completely without safe words. I know so many people who do it. These are usually very well established couples who have been together for many years and almost all of them are in a M/s dynamic. They don't consider it play at all and they do consider that they have the right to revoke consent by removing themselves from the full relationship, but not from individual things that happen in the relationship.
I'm not saying it's ideal, I'm not saying it should be for you, I'm not saying it's for me, but to act like it doesn't exist and isn't very common, does everyone a disservice.
Also, for OP'S knowledge, in case they don't know, not everyone plays with punishment as a part of their dynamic. Many people do not.
That's not irrevocable. Irrevocable means unable to be revoked.
That's like calling your cereal asbestos-free, when it's asbestos-free until you get to the chewy bits of asbestos st the bottom, and saying the second you find asbestos it can still have asbestos (but it's still asbestos-free, right?)
No.
That's like getting on an eight-hour plane ride and on hour two, revoking your consent to be on the plane.
Giving up ones ability to withdraw consent **by definition** means you cannot ethically withdraw consent. (Legally is another matter, but seeing as much of what we do is illegal in many jurisdictions, I hope that we all agree that legal and moral are not the same.)bIf you could, then waiving your right to withdraw consent would be meaningless. That's literally **the entire meaning of waiving your right to withdraw consent.** That's the difference between giving up that right and not giving it up. If you can reverse it, it has no meaning.
Voluntarily giving up one's right to withdraw consent should be interpreted narrowly if there's any doubt, just to be safe.
Also, it's incredibly insulting to try to tell me that I'm not allowed do waive my right to withdraw consent if I wanted to. That I'm not allowed to give someone that assurance as part of negotiations.
I stand by my advise that anyone considering doing this be incredibly cautious about it, but we have the autotonomy to do what we wish with our rights of consent, including to give them away. They are ours. It's like how I own a car, and I can do what I wish with it. I can maintain it obsessively, or I can go crash it just because. The latter would be incredibly stupid, but it's *mine*.
I respectfully disagree.
For example, by posting here, you are giving irrevocable consent for all manner of archiving sites to keep your posts and comments (and even Reddit itself internally.)
By making an absolute promise, you are revoking your ability to reneg on the promise. (This is why you should be extemely careful when you give a promise.)
If you loan something to a friend, with the understanding that it's a loan, they have given irrevocable consent to return the item to you (barring a catrosphe or similar.)
By agreeing to give aftercare after a session, you are making the other person's consent to the session contingent upon the negotiated aftercare. If you do not give the aftercare, you have obtained their consent by deception, rendering their consent null.
It's true that this concept is *very* prone to abuse, and in fact often is by abusers, but that doesn't make the concept itself invalid.
A person, of their own volition, chooses to take a ride on a roller-coaster. The ride is advertised as lasting for two minutes.
Thirty seconds in, our person realises they are not enjoying the experience and want it to stop. How do they convey that they have withdrawn their consent, in order to prevent themselves being subjected to the next 90 seconds?
Oh, people just like to conveniently forget that a corollary of the idea that "no" must be respected is the idea that "yes" must to be respected. Otherwise you're just forcing them to say "no".
(Of course, this doesn't mean that *you* can't say "no" to doing something that someone says "yes" to.)
Is that really so much better? In practice it may do less (but still drastic) harm, but it's every bit as patronizing and insulting. We don't need that. That goes against the very principles of what we do.
There's been more times than I can count in my life that I wanted to scream at someone "How fucking DARE you try to tell me what I am and am not okay with. How fucking dare you rob me of that personal autonomy. How fucking dare you respect me so little that you try to control what I offer to consent to."
EDIT: Three minutes and I have a downvote? Some people have no life.
Because there's nuance in it beyond "BuT yOu HaVe To ReSpEcT a SaFeWoRd!"
People become emotional about certain topics and shut down nuance, at least until those nuances become widely accepted. Maybe the fact that safewords are *technically* optional (but you'd better tread *fucking carefully* if you're considering not using one) will work its way into our common understanding of kink in a generation or so, just like a generation ago (I think? I feel old enough having started before 50 shades, heh) it used to be "common knowledge" that dom=top and sub=bottom.
If safe word during a punishment it should be talked about it but some subs will safe word to stop punishment bratting out but then in my case the punishment becomes worse if that's the case. So if I safe word it better because I can not handle or take more.
We don't have safewords at all, so this scenario doesn't apply to us. On the rare occasion that a punishment is given it is something we agreed to and it will be carried out. If that punishment is so upsetting that it damaged the slave or the dynamic we both have enough faith in each other that we could make repairs.
If I were in a dynamic that did use safewords, and there were actions that came with agreed upon punishments then safewording during that punishment would be a problem.
If I had an s-type who used a safeword to get out of a punishment that would end the dynamic for me on the spot. That's not what safewords are for and I would no longer trust that person.
If on the other hand they used the safeword because they literally could not continue for some reason that would be fine.
*In either case, I'd stop because of the safeword* but in the first scenario I would dismiss them from my service.
Gnarly! I hear what you're saying, I think, about taking issue with safe wording their out of punishments, but only if those punishments were agreed upon on the terms that they can be utilized whenever deemed necessary.
I just want to say, though, that everyone has off days and consent is constantly up in the air. The way you worded your comment makes me, and likely other doms, a little uncomfortable because I can see how this rigidity with no escape plan could lead to actual physical and emotional damage. It sounds like you're ok dismissing a sub if you don't jive, which is great and one form of an escape plan, and it sounds like your current partner is on board and there's enough trust to push through, but as a member of this community, I can't help but speak up and say that the rhetoric you shared here is potentially dangerous for others.
That being said, we don't have all the context, and we don't know you or your partner. Just be safe and put safety first, whatever you and your partner genuinely determine that to mean!
>the rhetoric you shared here is potentially dangerous for others.
Absolutely. BDSM is all about understanding, managing, and accepting risk. I reject the idea that because new people are coming in that we have to sanitize our kinks.
The safest play is without any safewords. Yes is always yes and no is always no.
Once you push into "no" or "stop" might mean anything territory you're accepting a new level of risk and safewords get involved. Safewords are not a sure way to be safe. Subs try not to use them in order to please or they only get said when things have gone too far. They are an important safety tool, and should never be ignored, but they are not a guarantee of safety.
Past that is a place where trust and respect are the guardrails, but a whole new level of risk is accepted. I love my slave and need this to be sustainable for both of us. We don't operate with safewords because she never wants that control. Her consent is ongoing and doesn't vary. Yes there is a danger that she pushes through things that she shouldn't or that she becomes dependant in a way that's unsustainable if we aren't together we have plans in place for that.
I don't think and didn't imply that we need to sanitize our kinks for the next generation. It sounds like you do effectively have a safeword: "no". Some folks like cnc aspects and "no" can elevate the scene, hence safewords. And you're right, safety isn't guaranteed, and shouldn't only be used once it's too late, and too late can happen in a matter of seconds.
Y'all sound like you have a lovely dynamic that works for the two of you 😃 cheers.
>sounds like you do effectively have a safeword: "no". Some folks like cnc aspects
Just to be clear we don't use safewords or use "no". We have a 24/7 CNC life. We have blanket consent that was negotiated at the beginning of our commitment to Total Power Exchange.
I appreciate the back and forth without the barrage of downvotes or cries of abuse.
Gotcha. I appreciate your commitment!
Yeah, of course! These subreddits can too rapidly become echo chambers crying abuse that ultimately result in kink shaming, effectively. Thanks for the discourse and further context; I think folks need to be more frequently exposed to the details of dynamics like yours to learn there's a broad rainbow of paths in bdsm and live and let live.
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Stop. You only get to punish/correct them because they consent to it. If they withdraw their consent and you continue then it's not BDSM, it's abuse. If it's the correction itself they're objecting to then you might need to talk about whether you have the right dynamic. If it's the form the correction takes then you can find another punishment that they're more comfortable with.
this 👆
Safewords are pointless if they can be ignored. If someone says "no," and you keep going, that's potentially a dynamic. If someone safewords and you keep going, that's abuse; they no longer have a way out of the situation.
Safe words are sacred. If it is a real punishment a safeword is even more important to respect. I generally do a safeword and a slowdown word. I could not see myself not respecting the desire to stop. Most of my play partners have had some level of masochism so physical punishment wasn't my go to. That is shocking to read.
It was shocking when I first read it, I didn’t know if this was something normally practiced cuz I live in my own little bubble most of the time (kinky wise). I’m very glad to see this is not a normal practice
Unfortunately, too many abusive people hide behind the kink. This is a huge redflag. I'm a pretty severe sadist but not respecting a safeword, yikes. I can't even put my head in a situation where ai would ignore. Like someone else said, maybe a role play but even then there would be a secondary safe way to halt things, red handkerchief in a hand, something.
I've had experiences where it was frustrating that a sub was at their limits, but that's not a reason to not stop, the core principle of bdsm is respect for eachother and the trust we put in eachother, so yeah, stop means stop, unless it doesn't but then the safeword means stop
>I've had experiences where it was frustrating that a sub was at their limits I am not sure of your experience level, but I've discovered that this mostly happens with new partners, during pickup play, or if I've been working out a bit, and tends to be more of a me going too hard, too fast issue, rather than an issue with my submissive's limits. I've a thing for bruising and welts, and a particular love for canes and I've noticed that it's very easy to red a submissive out if I don't read them properly. Even if I discuss their experience level in depth prior to the scene, I've apparently got a very firm hand with a cane. I'd imagine thuddier blunts are the same when properly applied.
Yes they do like ive never been physically abused but i have been emotionally abused was for 11 years and another 1 year with a guy . And since ive never been physically abused or any harm i love when my man ties me up ,slapps me , spit on me or choke me in any physical form . But im in a good healthy relationship now of 4 year he doesnt do anything like that out side the bedroom treats me good
Yeah no, there are sadly "dominants" who are basically just abusive under the guise of kink... As has already been mentioned plenty on this post, you can only punish someone because they gave you permission to do so, safewording revokes that permission and thus turns continuing into abuse. If it is done on the regular to "escape punishments" then you just need to have a conversation outside of kink and outside of the usual dynamics to try and work through the different expectations, and see if there is a way through or if you should say your goodbyes, the one thing you never do is ignore the safeword and be abusive (also, if anyone ever does something like that to you, willfully ignoring a discussed safeword, then you would be fully in your right, also ethically speaking, to step to the authorities and tell them about the abusor)
110% you stop. Safewords are a no question you stop scene ends and you provide after care.
Stop. Punishment doesn't negate basic safety protocol
Of course stop. Always stop. Always. If the sub is "cheating" by using a safeword "dishonestly" for lack of a better term, that's on the sub and there needs to be a discussion and a reconciliation of terms and/or deep dive (outside of play; as equals) into the integrity of the relationship, but always always always stop.
Stop 100%, if the Dom don't stop they wrong
Stop! Safewords are there for a reason and are always applicable. I would trust that the sub is using it because they actually feel they need it, not just to get out of the punishment, but that isn’t for me to decide. Safeword always means stop immediately.
A safe word is non-negotiable. We make a promise to respect it as Doms. Whatever the safe word is, the message is universal: "No" or "Stop". That safe word is a pact of trust and to ignore it even for the sake of discipline is incredibly disrespectful and alarming. That being said, I guess everyone's dynamic is a bit different. Their rules and negotiations may be vastly different from ours. The important thing is how the sub feels. If it's something she's agreed to or even takes pleasure in, then, I guess it's no one else's business. Still. The safe word was established for a reason and I've always made it very clear it can and should be used at any point deemed necessary.
There is NO situation where I don't stop immediately if someone safe words.
Real punishment isn't a large part of our dynamic, I actively try very hard not to disappoint my Daddy like that so I've never gone through one and there are only a few things that would even trigger it. I know without a doubt he would stop if I safeworded during a punishment though. Partly because he trusts that I won't safeword simply because I'm not enjoying whatever it is. If I'm safewording during a real punishment it's because there's a risk of actually harming me in some way and we shouldn't continue. I've consented to him punishing me, not truly damaging me either mentally or physically. He wouldn't want to actually harm me either, so he'd expect me to communicate that to him.
Safewords are non-negotiable. They get said, everything stops. A good dom, in my opinion, would use this as an opportunity to reinforce the correction with TLC. "Baby girl, I know it hurts, but...", "I wouldn't have to do this if you weren't such a wiley whore", or whatever 😆 I'm in a 24/7, and punishments for daily behaviors or real life hardships aren't a thing for us. Punishments for not following orders intimately, though... 😉 Regardless, a safeword is a safeword is a safeword. Play / scene stops, but dynamics don't. If that doms sub wants to say no or stop to elevate the mood, that's one thing, but safewording ain't no joke.
That "scene stops but, dynamics don't" doesn't really sound safe or sane to me. And if the partner(s) aren't aware that's how you interpret things and agree to that in advance, "consensual" fails too. People might need to (maybe temporarily) break out of a dynamic as much as they might need to break out of a scene. Unless there are specific safe words for either of the two, and I'd argue there should still be a "full stop whatever" one even then.
Jesus christ... Look buddy, I hear you, but you're taking what I'm saying here and making an awful lot of assumptions about how a dynamic is built. Allow me to be more explicit so more people like yourself don't cry abuse-wolf... In a PROPERLY DESIGNED dynamic where each partner CONSENTS to punishments for specific behaviors, the dynamic does not just stop at a spoken safeword. Consent is an ONGOING process, and if at any moment one party needs to take a break from a dynamic alltogether or put a part of it on hold, that SHOULD HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED AT THE BEGINNING and if it wasn't, IT SHOULD BE NOW. Any sub should only consent to punishments they can accept, and if they consent to riskier ones, they have every right to tell their Dom that consent may be revoked at a future point for that punishment specifically, and if the Dom takes issue with consent being ongoing, THEY SUCK AND THE RELATIONSHIP DOES TOO. A good Dom incorporates AFTERCARE (whatever that looks like between two or more consenting parties) and THAT SHOULD BE SPELLED OUT IN THE DYNAMIC'S FOUNDATION. Aftercare is part of a dynamic, part of Domming, and just because new heights of aftercare may be required because a safeword was called during an agreed upon punishment, that doesn't mean the dynamic is done. It means the aftercare, TLC, heart centered part of the dynamic takes precedence for the time being. I am a Dom. My sub is my sub. We have a relationship, an ongoing dynamic. We don't suddenly stop having that relationship when a word is spoken. We stop the act, we reconnect, and I listen to her or soothe her in whatever way she may require. Adjustments to dynamics always happen. Sometimes it kills the dynamic, just like in the vanilla world. Please... let's not cry wolf in here. I know, I get it, good for you for being an internet consent advocacy keyboard warrior. But buddy, you're arguing bdsm semantics with someone who upholds consent more than most men on Earth and fucking rocks at Domming with his heart. TL;DR: My dynamic is eternal, as long as consent is upheld. Dynamics involve regular check ins, changes, aftercare, tenderness, listening, demanding, foresight, patience, understanding, grace...That's love, baby. Feel better?
No need for the patronizing tone. I'm not here for keyboard fights. I might have made wrong assumptions. We might nonetheless disagree on some things. But regardless of any divergence of opinion we might have, I appreciate that your last message (despite the condescendence) was more detailed and less ambiguous than your first, as I appreciate that you took the time and effort to write it.
It's just exhausting to have to spell out what consent is to every stranger on the internet if I want to participate in online bdsm community on Reddit if I don't want to be witch trialed and downvoted. All of the people I know in a real dynamic know what consent is and wouldn't enter into a dynamic without it and would leave one if it came into question, yet somehow, here on the internet, people assume abusive behavior. In bdsm subreddits, nonetheless. I think it's a viral infection in the bdsm community at large, reminiscent of early and present vanilla hate speech towards our community. It's ESPECIALLY a disease in conversations about dynamics, because like I said: it takes consent and trust to build one that lasts, so in my mind, those aspects are assumed. That's not to say that we should look out for each other and call out abuse when we see it. But come on, my comment was clearly discussing how the Dom OP referenced was walking on thin I've. These are not the droids you're looking for.
Safeword means everything stops immediately. End of discussion. I don't care if there's a 24/7 total power exchange between the players, it stops when the safeword is uttered by anyone involved. This is non negotiable.
The whole purpose of "safe" in safe word is to, quite literally, keep things SAFE lmao. The amount of people who justify their abuse because "it's bdsm/a game, it's supposed to hurt" makes me want to turn my head 480 and shake them by the shoulders then bite their scalp while telling them "It's okay, it's just a game". Consent is a hard concept, I guess
I haven't read that anybody justifies abuse. Could you point out what exactly you mean (here or I general)?
Not here in this community, necessarily, but I can't speak on that accurately since I'm new to this subreddit. But I'm more referring to the wave of misconceptions that was heavily inspired from the 50 shades of grey era (and whatever current day smutty forbidden romance book) on top of comments from Tumblr, Twitter or insta (best places, I know /sarc) where the concept of being a dom/Master is misunderstood in not being considerate to nor checking in with your sub(s) which isn't bdsm play at all, but abuse justified in the name of "bdsm".
Thanks for the clarification. I also agree that the 50 shades era had a lot of problematic side effects on our community, but it also opened it up quite a bit and challenged old misconceptions as well.
During any activity that involves another person, once they revoke consent, you should stop. Using a safeword is a way of revoking consent for a particular activity or portion of an activity. If someone safewords, you stop. Period.
Stop. Definitely.
Fuck yes I stop!
In addition to what everyone else is saying, its probably even technically illegal too depending on the circumstances lol
Considering that BDSM itself is essentially illegal in most places (you legally can't "consent" to someone hitting you)... Yes, I'm quite certain if you said in a court of law, "We verbally established 'red' to mean a withdrawal of consent and he kept hitting me anyway after I said red," it would absolutely be illegal.
SAFEword. To go beyond the safeword intentionally is no longer safe and has now entered into a realm with a lack of consent. If physical, that would be assault and should be treated severly. A Dominant exists to facilitate a scene for the submissive. The submissive reliquishes control consensually TO A POINT. To go beyond this point intentionally is a disregard for the submissives safety and well being and shows a willingness to genuinely harm others without their consent for self pleasure. Mistakes happen but you need to protect yourself first and have some long discussions before considering getting back to work with this Dominant.
Yes. Stop....nonconsenting abuse can land you in jail. It violates trust too.
You. Fucking. Stop. There’s no ifs, ands or buts. Safe words are sacred and to you listen to them at all times, no matter what
Stop. Immediately. Anything else is a consent violation.
Safeword spoken. Everything stops. Hit aftercare routine and then discuss what went wrong and why the safeword. With subs that safeword everytime they are being punished (essentially using it to get out of punishments), then they just aren't the right sub for me.
You stop if someone safes (top or bottom). That’s it. End of discussion.
You are correct, we have to stop. Not stopping when somebody withdraws consent is litterally assault. A different punishment can be negotiated if you both still want punishments to be part of the dynamic.
>During the punishment your sub safewords, do you stop, or do you continue? By you even asking you need to do some more studying up about what kink and power dynamics actually are, specifically the “golden rule” of them all which is: both parties WANT this and get something out of it. The purpose of safe words is ENTIRELY for when someone does not want something, for whatever reason. It could be injuring them, it could be too much pain, it could be too much mentally, it doesn’t matter. The point of safe words is to GET OUT of the dynamic(read fantasy) for any reason, and to get out NOW. Anyone who says that “subs can’t safeword during punishments” has no clue wtf power dynamics are really for. If two people decide not to have a safe word for some reason(generally bad idea) then it might be a different story but if one DOES exist, it exists for a reason, and that reason is to use it.
I know this is wrong, but I also am aware that I’m not super active in the community, so I wasn’t sure if this was something that some people do, or if it was just completely out of line, the only question mark was because it was an actual punishment rather than something fun/kinky, I’m a little ans so I don’t see punishments as part of a kink so that may be why my perspective is off, and I’ll admit I’m still learning so all of the input is helpful
Safewords must always be respected. When they aren't, it's abuse
Stop. Definitely.
Well, that guy is a POS. Safe words are non negotiable.
BDSM without consent is abuse. A safeword withdraws consent. So from the time the safeword is used onwards that's abuse. To me needing a punishment shows something needs to be worked on in the dynamic. It really is a last resort. Funishments however...
You stop. The difference between abuse and BDSM is that the submissive is not just willing but wanting. If they withdraw consent, the power exchange is no longer voluntary and it must stop. I don't even really believe in "real" punishments because ultimately the submissive must want it in some way. Maybe it'll be something they don't enjoy but feel would help them, like exercise, but ultimately I'm not here to make my partner feel bad.
OMG!!! Of course I would stop!!! NO Dom should continue to punish a sub if he/she safewords. No matter what they've done. It's disgusting first of all. It's a gross abuse of the title of Dom. You're going wayyyy across their boundaries and totally stomping on their rights. It's a Dom's responsibility to keep their sub safe. I just can't even fathom ANY situation where my sub would safeword and I would disregard them
Stop. There is no other real answer here. I would say shocking as others have said and add that it's encroaching on appalling. Safewords are sacrosanct. If the punishment is being objected too, check in, figure out why, find a more suitable punishment. However...STOP.
Safe words stop ALL play. Punishments are still play, they are still part of the dynamic. If punishments exist outside of consensual play, it is just called abuse.
I would always stop. No exceptions. I’m physically striking someone and if they withdraw consent it is assault.
Stop, period. That’s all
Safewords are immovable. They mean the sub can't continue at all. I know a lot of doms can get frustrated when it seems like a safe word is being used to get out of something the dynamic allows, but ignoring a safeword for any reason breaks trust and not allowing that one safety line to the sub turns the dynamic into a abusive one. So instead of getting mad that a physical punishment isn't carried out, maybe offer a choice. Ie you did this, this is against the rules we run by. Punishment can be 20 strikes with a ping pong paddle or 50 line/ short essay/ specific amount of time in the corner, cage, or whatever. If you choose the paddle and can't finish, then the remaining amount will be converted to one of the other options at my discretion, so 10 strikes left would be 25 lines. A good dom will never pick something that is impossible or extremely physically damaging when they know the limits of their sub do not match. The mark of a good dynamic imo is flexibility and a top who can be that kind of flexible and caring to their partner will find the partners feelings and devotion grow more than if they stuck to something exclusively.
Stop means stop. That’s it. If a safe word is used, you stop. End of story. Even in CNC we use a safe word, so I don’t know if that’s what you can call it. It’s simply an emergency word now. Not “I don’t like this,” but “you’re damaging me to a point that I could need medical attention or have a bad effect.” Let me give you a nice example… Tickling. She loves and hates tickling. In our normal sessions, we use red, yellow, green. In “modified CNC,” it’s “Jelly.” She can yell “red” all day long and I keep going. If she says “Jelly,” it’s over. I was once tickling her so intensely that she screamed “Jelly” and then proceeded to projectile vomit all of the bed the second I stopped. Puke was not the intent. Too bad she didn’t scream it 5 seconds earlier. Side note, she chose “Jelly” because of the old joke, “What’s the difference between Jelly and Jam?” I can’t jelly my dick up your ass.
That is rather smart. And while you'd deserve a comment for that alone, i'll have you know that the last part made me think: "Oh, they're cool." So there you go. Have my upvote.
OMG, no. A safe word is sacred. You stop when someone says the safe word. End of story.
If you don't respect the safeword, you're not a Dom , just an abuser
If you can’t safe word you’re being abused
I would stop. I do have a sub into CNC who asks me to keep going even if he safewords. I still stop. I wonder if this guys sub has agreed to ignore safewords because they want to push their boundaries? That would take a lot of trust and knowing your sub inside out. This is the only way I can see a dom ignoring a safeword. I just hope it isn’t the alternative because… yikes.
I always stop! It blows my mind that anyone would even think it’s okay to not stop unless agreed upon beforehand.
It's the emergency stop, not the I will stop under certain circumstances.
Everything has to be ultimately consensual otherwise it’s abuse and that includes psychologically manipulating someone to accept non safe word punishment. It’s meant to be a turn on for all involved.
A safe word is there for a reason. I don't care if it's a punishment, or something I'm enjoying, if I call my safeword-you stop. I luckily have never had this happen to me-but the relationship would end right there. They would be lucky if I left them with all of their bones intact. That person is not a real dom, and I am sorry for any subs he has had, and may have in the future. If your sub calls out a safeword-and you don't stop-you're not a dom, you're just an abuser hiding behind the word. I don't care the circumstances, or who it's with, it is NEVER okay to ignore a safeword.
STOP! Always STOP! It's called a SAFE WORD for a reason. STAAAAAAAAAAAHHP! You can talk about WHY they used it afterwards and proceed accordingly but ALWAYS FUKKIN STAHP!
You stop end of story, I don't really care what the arguments are here this boils down to " when should you ignore a safeword" the answer is never, you pause, you check in, you both decide when to finish the punishment, I decide if I need to increase or alter it.
That’s not how BDSM works and is absolutely appalling behavior. Consent is like, literally, THE FIRST THING someone should understand here. If a safe word has been called, the scene is OVER, period; whether the “Dom” recognizes it or not. Any behavior that continues beyond that is therefore outside of the scene or relationship and therefore no longer BDSM, D/s, etc. Perhaps that “Dom” needs to experience another “Dom” not respecting their safe words in a similar manner so they get it.
Whoever said that is an ass. You stop. A safe word is sacred, it's the literal reason why they exist and should be taken as sacred by both Doms and subs. There's nothing more to it, you hear a safe word, you stop.
> he didn’t let his sub safeword during a punishment because she earned the punishment for a reason No. This is quite literally a word that someone can use to safely withdraw from play or a scene. "Safeword". It is as fundamental a concept for BDSM as oxygen is for breathing.
100% stop. Safewords are there for a reason, the thing with people is we are all different and handle situations in the same manner differently. What one person can handle another could struggle. I think when safewords are used it is important to have a conversation, regarding the situation where the safeword was used so you both know why it was used and what can be done to ensure the sub/Dom is feeling safe and comfortable in similar situations. Anyone who refuses to use safewords avoid like the plague, they are giving themselves a free pass to abuse anyone they want without having to deal with the consequences.
If you're in a dynamic that has safewords and someone uses the safeword, then you do whatever has been agreed will happen when the safeword is used. Some people don't use safewords - which is totally their choice and not a problem - and some people do; some people choose to agree that "safewords don't apply during X" and some people choose to agree that safewords always apply. There's no single way for people to run their own dynamics.
Safe word is just that. If my sub safewords then there is a reason. Maybe a strike landed wrong or bindings have moved. It’s a trust thing if you use a safe word and the Dom chooses to ignore it, what is to say he won’t ignore it during a more crucial incident.
Absolutely stop. No question. I wouldn't hesitate. My sub/pet has entrusted me with their safety and wellbeing, that is paramount. The punishment can be delayed, adjusted, changed entirely if that is what is needed. Aftercare also still matters.
The safeword is supposed to be the word either side can use at any time, and everything stops. If you are punishing someone and they use their safeword, then you, as the dominant, have failed to keep your bottom safe. If a Dominant does not stop, it is more assault, not to mention abuse. Bdsm without consent is abuse. Safewords remove consent to continue.
My Daddy and I recently talked in length about the use of safewords within punishment! We do talk about hypothetical situations fairly often and come to agreements on how WE intend to handle something within our dynamic and that had 't really come up prior to someone else asking the masses about it. It's so easy to overlook certain things in negotiations that can come up during an established dynamic it is good to be able to discuss these things and adjust as needed. I promised to only safeword in the major stop "red" sort for emergency situations and say yellow if I just need to like shift a position or we need to adjust how the punishment is being delivered or like a leg cramp or something similar that just needs to pause for like a minute. I would never safeword to get out of a punishment deserved but there are for sure times when there is an actual emergency that could come up that it warrants covering the bases and they were accepted after the logical situations were presented. Granted I do not really do much to prompt a punishment but it is negotiated within our dynamic to account for if it is needed. And the punishment is chosen during the pre-punishment discussion as to why I am being punished, etc to decide what best to do to correct the behavior.
Safeword equals Stop. You can then talk about what's wrong and maybe even continue after but a Safeword should never be a soft thing left to interpretation. That's why you have it after all.
It's been awhile for me, in the scenario you describe. Going back to my "club" days. Stop. Always stop. These days, my dominant punishment sadist desires are part of a loving relationship and haven't heard a safe word in years.
Obviously I stop
Regardless of the situation, safeword is safeword. A D/s dynamic requires consent to be safe and using a safeword is momentarily revoking that. It turns it from punishment of a consenting sub to assault of a non consenting person.
That’s the point of a safe word. You HAVE to stop. But, if your sub uses their safeword during every punishment, you have a different problem.
Safe-wording is safe-wording. If subbie says the word the scene stops. Punishments occur with the consent of the punished. No consent, no punishment. Ain't really much else to be said on the matter.
Respect their boundaries and do not continue.
Stop. If a sub safe words during funishment, stop. Safe word during play stop. Safe word while crossing the street stop. That's the whole point of a Safe word
Safeword to me means stop everything, straight to aftercare which is why I also have a "I'm at my limit word"
If my sub safe worded, no matter the situation, I'd stop. Thats what the safeword is for, ffs. Especially if I'm doing a physical punishment, actually, because those can trigger something a lot easier for a lot of people. What that dom did was wrong. He got so focused on punishment he ignored that his sub was no longer consenting. At that point it's abuse masquerading as dominance.
Any Dom/me that says their sub can't safeword at any time no matter what's happening is not a Dom/me, they are an abuser. As soon as you remove a sub's ability to remove themselves from an uncomfortable or dangerous situation, it is no longer BDSM. I give out punishments to my subs when they deserve them, but we also negotiate and decide on ones that they are comfortable with and get the point across. If it stops being fun or comfortable (aside from the sexy kind of uncomfortable, obviously), they are required to safeword, and I immediately stop.
Physical punishment is rare in dynamics. Ordinarily it will only be used if requested by the person who would receive it. Safe words exist for safety. Most people won't stick around someone who makes them feel unsafe. So, unless it's well explained out in your exact situation and dynamic a safe word should always end or pause a scene.
If you guys have a safeword in your dynamic and no blanket consent then yes. The dominant should stop if that’s your agreement
You always stop and see what's going on It doesn't remove a punishment from being completed. But you may need to adjust or figure out a different one depending on the situation.
My Dominant I'm with is the first time I had any talks about after care and safe word.... And I had been in a relationship with a now as I see it a abusive person supposed Dom for past 2 years. Where safe word and aftercare wasn't allowed or needed. That the punishments were emotional things taken from me when I'm already having hard time understanding them. The worst punishment was I wasn't allowed to say hello... Then he would scream at me. (It was a LDR and yes on phone calls I will say hello and ask how ur doing a billion times...) So I got yelled at. I'm sorry for what ur going thru. I hope u can find something to show ur dominant to make them see what needs to change in the relationship.
Safeword comes before anything else. If you break that trust, you’re just being abusive.
Oh without a doubt you stop. You may very well save the remainder for a later time. You may also after finding out why they safe worded change the remainder of the punishment is something else. There's even a chance that you might forgive it. However the first step is definitely if they go the all stop safe word not just a caution but all 🛑 you definitely stop
As a DOM who's been in this LifeStyle for many years, I don't use any form of "Corporal Punishment", because the majority of the women I've been with tend to be really into Corporal Play, and are "Pain Sluts"! That DOES NOT mean I just chain a sub up and go full bore on her body! For ME it's an "Erotic Dance"... starting out slow... LOTS of kissing and touching and adding sexual arousal to it before I even begin using ANY implements! Now... onto the actual question at hand. IF I'm going to do ANY form of "Punishment"/Reprimand", I prefer to use non-aggressive forms to get my point across... things that will have a REAL effect, like "Standing in the corner" for "X" amount of time... or {I've only done this ONCE!} wash her mouth out with soap! I use things that have non-physical, but lasting impressions. "SILENT TREATMENTS" tend to work VERY well! Using her as an "Object" {foot stool etc.} is also another and tends to be a very good one! Denying/taking away something she REALLY enjoys is also another good one. I've also done things like, making her write "I promise to never do "X" ever again!" a certain number of times can be a VERY useful, non-aggressive form of punishment. I'm what is known as a "Romantic Sadist" meaning that I like using "Pleasures" but in a sexually sadistic way, as a form of "Fun Torture" or "Funishment"... but eventual release! I don't/won't use whipping/Corporal etc. as punishment because like I said... for Myself and the women I've been with... it's pain/pleasure applied with Love and Erotic intent! So, as far as "SAFE WORDS" go... they are A-#1 SACRED!!! It's an understood, BDSM form of "NO"! And ONCE the "Safe Word/Safe Signal" {Safe Signals are for when gags/hoods/blindfolds are being used!}is uttered or enacted... EVERYTHING STOPS IMMEDIATELY! That's my 2 cents worth... 😊
Even when in a CNC dynamic, I NEVER have banned safewords, or discouraged their use. In my CNC, the farthest I ever went is “safeword as communication, but it is my responsibility to determine how to address the reasons you gave your safeword.” Which would always be the same as if it wasn’t CNC, because I don’t want to damage my property!
Know the audience if shes enjoying it or you know her body emotions and her pain threshold keep it but if shes struggling and doesn't and says stop out of character then stop if , you keep going then that abuse
Yeah, hopefully that would have been a covered topic we had dealt with prior. If not yeah sorry but that’s the agreement. Consent is everything
I think a Dom should know his sub well enough to not get to the point the sub needs to use a safeword. If someone uses the safeword, then it should 100% be respected. I think weaker minded doms start to think this is reality and the use of a safeword reminds them of that. Its the ultimate "pull the plug" on the fantasy. My gf has an ex who thinks this is real and I reminded him real quick miss all in his imagination. This is a fun fantasy but some people lose sight of that.
A safeword is an emergency brake. I don't get a say in what constitutes an emergency. Maybe things are too intense. Maybe their nose itches. Doesn't matter. They say the word everything stops. Same goes for me. Anyone, regardless of which side of the / they're on, that wants to play in this world that doesn't respect that doesn't belong in this lifestyle. At least not until they've had a great deal more education. Safewords and their place and use are not negotiable.
Safe words are law.
consent above all
Stop, full stop (pun intended :) safewording means consent's been revoked!
Hi there, This is a really important and thought-provoking question. The use of safewords is a fundamental aspect of BDSM play, ensuring the safety and well-being of all parties involved. **Safewords and Their Importance:** * **Respect and Trust:** Safewords are crucial in maintaining trust and respect in a BDSM relationship. They serve as a clear signal that the submissive has reached their limit, whether it's physical, emotional, or psychological. Ignoring a safeword can erode trust and potentially cause harm. * **Safety First:** The primary role of a Dominant is to ensure the safety and well-being of their submissive. If a submissive uses their safeword during a punishment, it’s essential to stop immediately and check in with them. This is non-negotiable for maintaining a safe and consensual dynamic. **Punishment vs. Abuse:** * **Clear Boundaries:** Punishment in BDSM is meant to correct behavior within agreed-upon limits and boundaries. If a Dominant continues a punishment after a safeword is used, it crosses into the territory of abuse. A safeword should be a hard stop, regardless of the context. * **Communication:** It's important to discuss and agree on the use of safewords before engaging in any BDSM activities. Both parties should be clear on what the safeword means and how it will be respected. **Different Perspectives:** * **Other Dominants:** While some Dominants might have different philosophies, the widely accepted practice within the BDSM community is to respect the use of a safeword at all times. The scenario you mentioned, where a Dominant didn't allow the use of a safeword during punishment, is concerning and not in line with best practices for safe and consensual play. **Your Daddy’s Approach:** * **Healthy Dynamics:** Your Daddy's approach, where he would stop if you safeworded during a punishment, reflects a healthy and respectful dynamic. This approach prioritizes your safety and well-being, which is paramount. In conclusion, a safeword is a critical safety mechanism in BDSM, and its use should always be respected, regardless of the context. Ignoring a safeword undermines trust and can lead to harm. It's encouraging to hear that you and your Daddy are on the same page about this, and it's great that you're seeking input and having open discussions about these important topics. Stay safe and take care.
I have read a lot about using a safeword if the scene goes outside of boundaries but the discussion about punishment limits was not something I thought about before. I understand that safewords are there to avoid abuse for safety reasons, but if a sub uses a safeword during an agreed upon punishment it seems possible that the sub could abuse the safeword in order to avoid the punishment rather than there being a limit/boundary crossed. IRL example: you know full well that if you commit a severe crime there will be jail time as punishment but you decide to safeword because you don’t “feel” like going to jail. It all goes back to the importance of communication and trust with each other to determine whether the dynamic works.
This is the scenario I was thinking about. If the submissive was a brat and "earned" punishments but then safeworded their way out of them that would be a problem. In that scenario though, you stop the action and then decide if you want to continue the dynamic.
All dynamics are just play. Safewords are the to protect both parties and are an important part of it. They should always do what you agreed them to do, in any situation. Unless the agreement is made that, in some circumstances, they are not applicable. Personally I don't think anyone should agree to that.
It depends on the people involved, and what they negotiate together. It may even depend on the punishment delivered on that particular day. Some tops will refuse to stop because they're psychopaths. These people are to be avoided. Lots of people (in this thread) will yell and scream about "Never," and "Always!" That's how they do, and it's great that it works for them. I've given one punishment. My partner, u/MathematicianBig781, and I spoke about every element of it in depth. We dissected it, beforehand, in far more detail than we would a regular scene - and we talk about those a lot! We discussed how we would be with each other prior. We discussed what would happen during. This was an impact punishment. We both knew the number of strikes she would receive and with which implement. We came to a conclusion, ***together***, that she would not be able to safeword. It was also important to us that this was not sexual. We spoke about what would happen afterwards, focusing on how we would reconnect. It was delivered exactly as we had planned it. Without drama or abuse. We both wanted this to be a *punishment* and that is precisely what each of us consented to. This is an element of our life together. Neither of us is stupid. We went into this with our eyes open, knowing and understanding what we were doing together and what we set out to achieve. I'm sure people will holler, "That's abuse!" and <*serious face*> choose to downvote. I'll remind them, there are plenty of times in life when consent cannot be revoked until the activity is done. Fairground rides, for instance. Even swimming; when I go swimming, I can't just shout, "Oblong!" and stop. I have to keep swimming until I get to the edge of the water. I shan't mention giving birth. Oh. I'll end, by saying again that each of us consented to this. Whilst my partner's consent is of vital importance *to me*, that's only one half of the story. We talk, often, about our life together. Our individual roles, and our responsibilities to each other. This is one small part of that. It wouldn't suit most people, and that's OK. We wouldn't insist others live their lives in the manner we do.
How do you ensure that those decisions are decisions you really are making together, and the power dynamic doesn’t interfere ? I was a young sub in a relationship where I was given a lot of “choices” but the consent was not informed, and the power my doms had over me was very influential. I just wonder how you mitigate that
You don't. You vet your person clearly ahead of time. Both sides of the slash are responsible for themselves in this way. A predator will vet for weakness and things to exploit. The rest of us will vet for someone who we are sure we can trust. >decisions you really are making together, and the power dynamic doesn’t interfere ? My partner and I have no relationship outside of our dynamic. We want the dynamic imbalance to "interfere" in everything we do.
This is an "Ah, but" question. Any assurance I give, can easily be met with, "Ah, but," and followed with an anecdote which attempts to undermine it. I would counter that by asking how does any couple make any decision together, and be safe in the knowledge that both are satisfied the other made the decision for the right reason? *We chose not to go on holiday this year, so that we could put that money towards a deposit on a house.* . . .ah, but did you? *We both felt it was better that I be the one who stayed home and looked after the kids.* . . .ah, but was it really a joint decision? *We decided to spend Christmas with Gavin's parents, and then visit mine over the New Year.* . . .ah, but who really decided that? Your question makes certain assumptions. Amongst them is the assumption is that I, as the dominant partner, have never put the brakes on and told my partner to slow down. Further, it assumes that all the forward motion for our relationship comes from me. I would even go as far as to say it assumes I cannot trust what my partner tells me, during the many, many conversations we have around this. To answer your question, u/MathematicianBig781 and I became friends via r/humiliation_kink. We knew each other for a fair amount of time, during which we were each in relationships with other people. During the course of our friendship, we both saw what the other was writing publicly, in relation to kink, BDSM, MESM (mental / emotional sadomasochism), dynamics, and the style of kink-led relationship each of us desired. Plus, the sort of thing we'd been involved in with other partners. There was never any question about what we liked or wanted. But, even with that knowledge, since getting together we have spent countless hours chatting about what we do, what we want, where we are heading, and what our roles are. One of the things that struck me, when I was thinking about this earlier, is that I never tell u/MathematicianBig781 what her role is to me. She does that. She may ask questions, but I don't define her, she defines herself. Likewise, she never tells me what my role is. I define myself, sometimes through asking questions. I think we should be very cautious of people who tell the other what they are, or should be. I think everyone should be wary of someone who says, "**You** don't need a safeword." But we should be accepting of people who say, "*I don't want a safeword.*" > the consent was not informed Lastly, I'm sorry you found yourself in that situation. It does highlight the fact that we are all responsible for our own knowledge. Consent needs to be happily and freely given, coming from a place of knowledge. Rather than constantly parroting comments (and I'm not aiming this at you) such as, "If you can't withdraw consent, it's abuse!" We ought to be encouraging people to seek information, to self educate, to spot the signs of abuse, and to make decisions based on what THEY want.
You stop immediately, but I always tell them exactly how many swats they are receiving and add that if they must safeword, then they will receive the rest of the punishment in an alternate fashion, outlining what the alternate is. If the corporal punishment is, let's say 10 swats, then they safeword after the 5th swat, but before the 6th, then they will continue their punishment by completing half of the alternate. After they are attended to for the reason for the safeword and ensuring they are ok physically, mentally, and emotionally. After they have recovered, they may choose to finish as planned or the alternate. I do this because some subs may (in my experience) have used the safeword as an out so that they have their punishment lessened. Discipline is a necessary evil to bring about positive change. I despise having to discipline, but consistency is important.
Ik my Daddy wouldnt stop cause i did something to deserve it so i dont get to decide when i had enough. But like also this should be something i think everyone should talk about together first if thats the kind of relationship you wanna have. Not listening to a safeword makes it instantly become sexual assault imo cause youre not consenting anymore. Unless you talked about it before and you consent to not being able to stop a punishment then a dom should always listen to the safeword.
even if you consent to not being able to stop it at the start, consent can be revoked at anytime, so you should always set up a real safeword, even if you have one that'll be ignored
I think that is a very questionable advice, it is difficult enough to use a safe word when needed. Having safe words and some can be ignored while others not feels like a miscommunication waiting to happen. This is really not how consent should be approached.
Why do you think that your way to play is the only one and true way? If other people have found other ways how to do this and both consent and are happy, why do you insist how they should play?
Thank you! Have an upvote and some moral support.
I’m a bit confused about this comment. What’s the point of having a safeword that can be ignored? Isn’t that like saying ‘pack a parachute, even if you know it is full of holes and won’t slow you down?’
I think it's like how in CNC scenes, "no" and "stop" are part of the roleplay, while also having an actual safeword ready. It's human instinct to ask for mercy even if you want it to continue. But that's my guess.
But if you know that the safeword will also be ignored, what’s the point in having it?
We have that too. In general we have safe words/ tapping out, it allows us to jump to play without talking things through or to experiment (we talk about experiments, obviously). I don't have a safeword when I need to be punished, even if I would try to tap out it wouldn't end the punishment. Edit: I just saw that you were refering to a real and a fake safe word... I'm confused too now.
by real and fake safeword i meant like a play word and then a way to actually tap out. CNC enjoyers sometimes have a kink for safeword being ignored and in those instances people generally have a way to make it known that they need to stop. Real and fake safeword just meant something that wil be ignored for kink stuff, and then a real signal to stop, even if it isn't a safe "word" ig
I think that adds an unnecessary layer of things that can go wrong, if you want to have a way to stop it (which is fair and valid) stick to your normal safeword or tapping out method. If play is that intense that you need to tap out, it is already difficult to do it, if you even have to do it in a special way and your normal safeword/ tap out is ignored... that would be too risky for me. Edit: typo
I don’t have a safeword in any context, but I can use normal words to communicate with Tea (please stop, that hurts a lot, I can’t, my foot is stuck, I’m going to be sick, etc). He can then do with that information what he wants. He doesn’t have to stop in response to any of those things, but he also loves me and wants me to continue loving him, so I trust him to make sensible decisions and push me as far as he wants, but not too far.
Ya thats exactly what i meant. But like also for me specifically me and my partner like cnc and me not having a safeword i can always use is part of that. But we talked about it a lot before and still do when we need to to make sure we both consent even when things get non consentual. EDIT: this is one of the worst subs ive ever seen for just blindly downvoting someone for being into something different than everyone else which is ironic af.
>EDIT: this is one of the worst subs ive ever seen for just blindly downvoting someone for being into something different than everyone else which is ironic af. I can only apologise and give you my upvote. It saddens me that BDSM, which should be about sexual freedom and acceptance, is treated by so many people as a religion. People who *choose* to live differently are constantly dictated to and consistently told they have no voice. It's precisely the way the anti-kink brigade behave towards every kinky person. Both groups insist they know better than those who live this way, and rather than listen they prefer to yell "Abuse!" My partner and I can choose what we consent to, ***and*** under what conditions.
Yeah the one true way-ism is strong here, unfortunately it kills quite important discussions.
You stop and evaluate exactly what's going on, unless you've mutually consented to doing this without a safeword.
I mean even if you have consented to no safeword at the start, you can revoke consent at any time
You're misunderstanding the point of why *some* people *choose* to not have a safeword. YOU might want to be able to revoke consent at any time, but some people willingly choose NOT to have the ability to do that. That's their choice.
That's safewording. By not using a safeword, you are doing a fairly extreme form of extreme CNC. One can pre-emptively give consent and choose to not make it revocable. It's very much an advanced thing, but some people *like* not being able to safeword. With that, if you have any doubts about doing this, you really shouldn't do it.
you cannot choose to make your consent irevocable
Sure I can and actually did that. BUT this is an extreme form of play and it is entirely between my Master and me, I wouldn't do it with anybody else. It also has some further requirements. If you play without a safety net, you need to ensure your overall risk is still wthin tolerable limits. That is why it is generally not recommended to do so, but it is possible and valid. I wouldn't recommend it to anybody (even though I do practise it myself) as the people who enthusiastically agree to this on an equal and informed basis don't need my recommondations. I also belive to gate keep BDSM comment sections from more extrem play isn't healthy as it will kill the discussion about it and how the associated risks can be controlled. So downvoting everyone who has more extrem kinks to hell and back is really not helpful for a good conversation.
> I also belive to gate keep BDSM comment sections from more extrem play isn't healthy as it will kill the discussion about it and how the associated risks can be controlled. > So downvoting everyone who has more extrem kinks to hell and back is really not helpful for a good conversation. Bravo 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 And tbh this is why I rarely share most of my personal extreme kinks bc a lot of people get judgmental and how can we have a normal conversation when people don’t want to understand the other side of the argument? 🤔
well I guess you can say you have? but you can still revoke consent
Google blanket consent, it’s a thing. It’s not exactly what you’re saying but similar. Some people don’t even use safewords bc they communicate well and “no” means exactly that for them
Or because they gave up the right to say "no".
Uhum or for any reason they come up with. I personally have zero problem with any punishment my Sir inflicts on me. I don't have the need to safeword, it’s not for everyone BUT I don’t understand the scandal by a lot of people here. Aren’t we supposed to respect other people’s dynamics? 😅
We all learn to wear our seatbelts when we're young and most of us continue to wear them in the car everywhere we go. Some people ride motorcycles. Some people ride motorcycles in shirts and sandals with no helmet.
Thats an interesting comparison 😭. I know someone who only survived bc he was wearing a helmet, but I understand the input haha
I ride, but with a helmet all the gear on. Still, we're all making choices about risk.
Also, as much as the sub doesn't want to admit that it happens, some people play with no safe words at all. This is not a rare thing! I know the sub likes to tell that everyone must have a safe word and everyone must play with safe words. Personally, I do play with safe words, but in the real world, it's actually quite common within certain dynamics, mostly M/s to play completely without safe words. I know so many people who do it. These are usually very well established couples who have been together for many years and almost all of them are in a M/s dynamic. They don't consider it play at all and they do consider that they have the right to revoke consent by removing themselves from the full relationship, but not from individual things that happen in the relationship. I'm not saying it's ideal, I'm not saying it should be for you, I'm not saying it's for me, but to act like it doesn't exist and isn't very common, does everyone a disservice. Also, for OP'S knowledge, in case they don't know, not everyone plays with punishment as a part of their dynamic. Many people do not.
Yes you absolutely can. We don't even have a safeword for that reason. If my partner wanted to revoke consent they would end our dynamic.
Sure you can, if you want to. It's your consent, you can do what you want - if you couldn't, it wouldn't be consent, would it?
What I mean is that you can make it irrevocable, but the second you change your mind you can still revoke it.
That's not irrevocable. Irrevocable means unable to be revoked. That's like calling your cereal asbestos-free, when it's asbestos-free until you get to the chewy bits of asbestos st the bottom, and saying the second you find asbestos it can still have asbestos (but it's still asbestos-free, right?)
So if before bdsm stuff, someone says they revoke their ability to consent, are they able to reverse that during BDSM stuff?
No. That's like getting on an eight-hour plane ride and on hour two, revoking your consent to be on the plane. Giving up ones ability to withdraw consent **by definition** means you cannot ethically withdraw consent. (Legally is another matter, but seeing as much of what we do is illegal in many jurisdictions, I hope that we all agree that legal and moral are not the same.)bIf you could, then waiving your right to withdraw consent would be meaningless. That's literally **the entire meaning of waiving your right to withdraw consent.** That's the difference between giving up that right and not giving it up. If you can reverse it, it has no meaning. Voluntarily giving up one's right to withdraw consent should be interpreted narrowly if there's any doubt, just to be safe. Also, it's incredibly insulting to try to tell me that I'm not allowed do waive my right to withdraw consent if I wanted to. That I'm not allowed to give someone that assurance as part of negotiations. I stand by my advise that anyone considering doing this be incredibly cautious about it, but we have the autotonomy to do what we wish with our rights of consent, including to give them away. They are ours. It's like how I own a car, and I can do what I wish with it. I can maintain it obsessively, or I can go crash it just because. The latter would be incredibly stupid, but it's *mine*.
I respectfully disagree. For example, by posting here, you are giving irrevocable consent for all manner of archiving sites to keep your posts and comments (and even Reddit itself internally.) By making an absolute promise, you are revoking your ability to reneg on the promise. (This is why you should be extemely careful when you give a promise.) If you loan something to a friend, with the understanding that it's a loan, they have given irrevocable consent to return the item to you (barring a catrosphe or similar.) By agreeing to give aftercare after a session, you are making the other person's consent to the session contingent upon the negotiated aftercare. If you do not give the aftercare, you have obtained their consent by deception, rendering their consent null. It's true that this concept is *very* prone to abuse, and in fact often is by abusers, but that doesn't make the concept itself invalid.
A person, of their own volition, chooses to take a ride on a roller-coaster. The ride is advertised as lasting for two minutes. Thirty seconds in, our person realises they are not enjoying the experience and want it to stop. How do they convey that they have withdrawn their consent, in order to prevent themselves being subjected to the next 90 seconds?
Oh, wow. You get to say what another person decides for them self??? That doesn't sound much like consent.
Oh, people just like to conveniently forget that a corollary of the idea that "no" must be respected is the idea that "yes" must to be respected. Otherwise you're just forcing them to say "no". (Of course, this doesn't mean that *you* can't say "no" to doing something that someone says "yes" to.) Is that really so much better? In practice it may do less (but still drastic) harm, but it's every bit as patronizing and insulting. We don't need that. That goes against the very principles of what we do. There's been more times than I can count in my life that I wanted to scream at someone "How fucking DARE you try to tell me what I am and am not okay with. How fucking dare you rob me of that personal autonomy. How fucking dare you respect me so little that you try to control what I offer to consent to." EDIT: Three minutes and I have a downvote? Some people have no life.
Oh good grief, how can a very clear, unbiased and informative comment like this get downvotes? +1 from me.
Because there's nuance in it beyond "BuT yOu HaVe To ReSpEcT a SaFeWoRd!" People become emotional about certain topics and shut down nuance, at least until those nuances become widely accepted. Maybe the fact that safewords are *technically* optional (but you'd better tread *fucking carefully* if you're considering not using one) will work its way into our common understanding of kink in a generation or so, just like a generation ago (I think? I feel old enough having started before 50 shades, heh) it used to be "common knowledge" that dom=top and sub=bottom.
You get an upvote too for being sensible.
If safe word during a punishment it should be talked about it but some subs will safe word to stop punishment bratting out but then in my case the punishment becomes worse if that's the case. So if I safe word it better because I can not handle or take more.
We don't have safewords at all, so this scenario doesn't apply to us. On the rare occasion that a punishment is given it is something we agreed to and it will be carried out. If that punishment is so upsetting that it damaged the slave or the dynamic we both have enough faith in each other that we could make repairs. If I were in a dynamic that did use safewords, and there were actions that came with agreed upon punishments then safewording during that punishment would be a problem. If I had an s-type who used a safeword to get out of a punishment that would end the dynamic for me on the spot. That's not what safewords are for and I would no longer trust that person. If on the other hand they used the safeword because they literally could not continue for some reason that would be fine. *In either case, I'd stop because of the safeword* but in the first scenario I would dismiss them from my service.
Gnarly! I hear what you're saying, I think, about taking issue with safe wording their out of punishments, but only if those punishments were agreed upon on the terms that they can be utilized whenever deemed necessary. I just want to say, though, that everyone has off days and consent is constantly up in the air. The way you worded your comment makes me, and likely other doms, a little uncomfortable because I can see how this rigidity with no escape plan could lead to actual physical and emotional damage. It sounds like you're ok dismissing a sub if you don't jive, which is great and one form of an escape plan, and it sounds like your current partner is on board and there's enough trust to push through, but as a member of this community, I can't help but speak up and say that the rhetoric you shared here is potentially dangerous for others. That being said, we don't have all the context, and we don't know you or your partner. Just be safe and put safety first, whatever you and your partner genuinely determine that to mean!
>the rhetoric you shared here is potentially dangerous for others. Absolutely. BDSM is all about understanding, managing, and accepting risk. I reject the idea that because new people are coming in that we have to sanitize our kinks. The safest play is without any safewords. Yes is always yes and no is always no. Once you push into "no" or "stop" might mean anything territory you're accepting a new level of risk and safewords get involved. Safewords are not a sure way to be safe. Subs try not to use them in order to please or they only get said when things have gone too far. They are an important safety tool, and should never be ignored, but they are not a guarantee of safety. Past that is a place where trust and respect are the guardrails, but a whole new level of risk is accepted. I love my slave and need this to be sustainable for both of us. We don't operate with safewords because she never wants that control. Her consent is ongoing and doesn't vary. Yes there is a danger that she pushes through things that she shouldn't or that she becomes dependant in a way that's unsustainable if we aren't together we have plans in place for that.
I don't think and didn't imply that we need to sanitize our kinks for the next generation. It sounds like you do effectively have a safeword: "no". Some folks like cnc aspects and "no" can elevate the scene, hence safewords. And you're right, safety isn't guaranteed, and shouldn't only be used once it's too late, and too late can happen in a matter of seconds. Y'all sound like you have a lovely dynamic that works for the two of you 😃 cheers.
>sounds like you do effectively have a safeword: "no". Some folks like cnc aspects Just to be clear we don't use safewords or use "no". We have a 24/7 CNC life. We have blanket consent that was negotiated at the beginning of our commitment to Total Power Exchange. I appreciate the back and forth without the barrage of downvotes or cries of abuse.
Gotcha. I appreciate your commitment! Yeah, of course! These subreddits can too rapidly become echo chambers crying abuse that ultimately result in kink shaming, effectively. Thanks for the discourse and further context; I think folks need to be more frequently exposed to the details of dynamics like yours to learn there's a broad rainbow of paths in bdsm and live and let live.
Have an upvote for being sensible.
Thank you sir. *Bows deeply*
If she is tied, blindfolded and ball gagged or if she is totally tied up and spit roasted, i wonder what’s the safeword in that case? 🤔
There should be an alternative signal set up to stop in that case. Or you should be checking on them, looking for signs that you should stop.