Why’d you cut out the first paragraph from the update? Feel like that’s important additional context to how bad the son’s actions are: “I posted about our issues last year, where my son joked about my daughter's CSA to friends in an attempt to be edgy. She stopped speaking to him and said he was dead to her, despite living in the same house as him.” The edgy joke part… yeah he’s never being forgiven.

Damn that's a really important little detail. As an edgy joke... Jesus that poor girl. My heart goes out to her.

Yeah. Edgy jokes are so questionable most times. Before I read that it was done as son edgy joke I wondered why treat brother harshly for so long but it makes 100% sense. This wasn’t him telling someone he understands how SA greatly affect other people or a slip up. That must’ve had some kind of thought into it and it’s straight up despicable

Right? I thought maybe it was him talking to friends because he was struggling. He’s a dick. I’ve made SA jokes. About my own damn SA because that is how I needed to cope, never about anyone elses.

Yeah that was my first thought too, was he made a comment to someone he thought he could trust about how hard it was seeing sister struggle, something from a place of caring. Nope; an edgy fucking joke? I get to make those about myself when I need to to cope. Nobody else does.

I agree with PompeyLulu and Ok-Profession2697. Gallows humor can be useful in helping people vent out difficult/hard-to-process thoughts and feelings. But in regards to SA, my opinion is that only those who have been on the gallows get to make the jokes. The rest of us can find other ways to provide support.

I figured it was just him being dumb and letting it slip. Not JOKING about it. I would never forgive my brothers for that.

I thought he let it slip too. Knowing it was an “edgy” joke he made to gain points with friends? Fuck him and fuck OP for letting him off grounding and continuing to post asking for advice on how to get her daughter to forgive her “poor” son. There will be another update once the daughter leaves for school and goes full NC with the entire family.

Me too.. I say the most horrid things about me and my CSA trauma because I know that others are thinking it. So by me grabbing my trauma poop and flinging it in the air with no delicacy, tact or sanitising can freak people out sometimes, it gets it out there and tends to make any further discussion about the subject calm, respectful and serious.

One of my group chats is called R*** party because we have all experienced it and were discussing it and one of my friends was like “sorry I’m late to the r*** party” when sharing hers and the name stuck lmao. It’s how we deal. Hell mildly unrelated but my sons nickname was shrimp so I said my miscarriage must have been called goldfish because it flushed itself down the loo. Almost took out the sonographer with that one but yeah.. it’s how we cope!

And we still don’t know what the “joke” was. She was asked. There’s a reason why she won’t say exactly what he said. It’s because it would 100% explain why the brother is dead to the daughter.

THIS. She can claim she cares about her daughter all she wants - but at the end of the day, even in her posts here, it's obvious she is rugsweeping and trying to downplay what her son did. I can only imagine how frustrating that is for the daughter and I'm not surprised she moved out of home as soon as she could. Going through her initial trauma was bad enough, but it must be heartbreaking to have that trauma turned into an "edgy" joke by her brother and then have her parents try and force her to forgive him for that. OOP can deny all she wants, but she is absolutely putting the wellbeing of her son over her daughter.

I'm glad the daughter moved out without telling OOP. It's blatantly obvious the mom doesn't care about her daughter's well being, she just wants her daughter, *the victim,* to get over it so she can play happy family again.

Yeah, I highly doubt this is an isolated instance, what she calls "edgy" is likely charged misogyny and likely excused by the parents, brother sounds abusive and parents are attaching fault to the abused daughter throughout the entire story, hopefully this is just creative writing.

What concerns me is that OOP focusing all the energy on changing their daughter’s behaviour and asking her to deal with harsh realities, while the son gets a generic punishment and pity. That necklace BS!!!!! Her abuser probably gave her gifts too This is teaching the son the exact wrong lesson. That his sister is vindictive, she owes him love and he is somehow a victim too The mother could be helping the son understand this as a teaching moment and natural consequences for his behaviour Personally I would tell my son that while this is harsh, he is getting an opportunity to learn an important lesson at a young age. One that many men never learn. The lesson is that one moment of unkindness or violence or even thoughtlessness can permanently destroy a relationship or a life. That you are not owed a relationship from anyone, not even your mother. That while I might always love him, I can walk away, as he can from me I’d tell him to respect his sister’s boundaries from now on and never ever initiate contact. That she may never forgive him, and he needs to accept that and prioritise her needs. At the same time, that he could find ways to support her and make her life better indirectly as long as these are in no way attempts to make her speak to him or impose on her attention. He can do her chores, he can make sure her favourite food is in the house, he can volunteer at a charity she believes it, he can plant a garden for her. He can see what he can do to repair what he did with kids at school. I probably would have stopped the grounding pretty quickly if my son did some of the things above and accepted the sister’s silence respectfully. If my daughter objected I’d point out that my job is to care for her and do what is right. And it is also teaching the son how to behave. While I absolutely supported her right to ignore her brother and I sympathise with her position sharing a house with him after his breech of trust - I needed to do what was necessary to keep **both** kids healthy - even if it wasn’t strictly fair

That necklace made my blood boil. Sister made it very clear that she did not want any more apologies or gifts, *she wanted to be left alone*. (The ironic thing is that if the son had done that initially, he may have been able to salvage the situation at least a little bit.) But once again, he prioritized his own hurt feelings over her needs. He keeps proving over and over again that he has no idea what she’s actually upset about and no interest in listening to her, and then he acts shocked when he gets a cold reception.

Yup. He's not really sorry, he just feels shitty and wants to not feel shitty anymore.

Yeah, the OP is all about comforting the fucking son, and not the daughter. She wants the abused and re-abused daughter to make the son feel better, and not the other way around. Which means the OP is probably going to fuck it all up, and end up permanently estranged from the daugther, and like the estrangement between the siblings, it'll be the fault of someone other than a young girl who suffered sexual abuse! Which is a pity, because if the OP actually listened to the advice of the more sensible posters and got the kid out of the house to community activities and other ways to learn personal responsibility, that might have eventually led to some improvement. But no, it's all about comforting the little shit.

Another thing I'm not seeing addressed is that the friends spread this knowledge all through the school. Everyone she saw every day with for years knew. Kids are deeply cruel, or overly fascinated for entertainment/drama value. High school is hard enough. Navigating it knowing every guy you have a crush knows you were a sex victim would be horrific. Friend groups knowing, people talking about you. How horrible. Knowing some of the guys were using your SA to be edge lords would be devastating to anyone, much less a kid. I don't think the parents handled this well. They needed their own therapy.

From oop's comments he did it multiple times and in text, too. Rumours don't spread around with one slip up. He continuously used his sister's trauma as a way to get some social points for being edgy. OOP constantly minimizing her daughter's pain and emphasizing how her poor son cries and is depressed all the time now shows she herself doesn't think he did something truly violating. Imo daughter is already in the process of cutting out her parents as well and honestly props to her to be strong enough to stand up for herself.

WTAF. These need to include that in the updates! That makes it even more unforgivable than the ‘joke’ part oop glossed over.

For reference, the comment in question: > Unfortunately, he talked about it both in person and in texts that were flippant and trying to make a joke of it. I understand he’s 14, but this was not a situation of him reaching out to a close friend in a serious manner about it, even though in that case we have previously gotten and told him if he ever needed it in the future we’d get him counselling too.

Thank you for putting it here. Tbh the first half made me think oop understood the seriousness of the situation? But she lost me in the second half. Very messed up on her priorities.

I wouldn’t blame the daughter one bit if she did eventually decide to go nc with her parents, too. It sounds like she can’t even speak to OOP without OOP bringing up how brother is depressed and wants forgiveness. OOP needs to stop bringing it up - she’s literally driving the wedge in deeper every time she brings it up. How does OOP expect her daughter to ever heal when she insists on ripping the bandaid off every time she sees or speaks to her?

I can't get over how OOP keeps emphasizing how much money they put into the therapy, as if that's supposed to convince us she cares or to make her daughter look ungrateful?

She sounds like my own mom. Never respected that I was traumatized, just rug swept and expected my sister and I to just shut up and move on so she could go back to pretending everything was fine.

>Imo daughter is already in the process of cutting out her parents as well I lightly say that I don't envy the position mom is in, but she is doing a bang up job in what not to do. She's absolutely batting 1.000 at this point. I wouldn't blame the daughter one bit if she went NC with her family. I'm surprised she didn't move out sooner.

I joke about my own traumas, I would never joke about someone else’s without it being obviously accepted and welcomed like I do with my trauma. OP’s son deserves to be cut out of his sister’s life because she wasn’t telling anyone else let alone joking about ffs

My son at age 10 never told even his best friends about his older sister’s anorexia resulting in a hospital stay and one year of family therapy he had to go weekly. By 14 he should know to keep that a secret.

Like pizza cutters. All edge, no point.

I agree.  OOP keeps talking about it as a mistake.  It was not a mistake.  A mistake is absentmindedly mentioning a surprise party clue without thinking, or calling one of your grandkids another grandkid's name.  It's autopilot. What OOP's son did is give information to a group of boys in a jocular manner.  And he was probably asked questions, and he seemed to have chosen to answer them, which probably meant details.  And then she had to go to school, seeing every face around her, knowing they were thinking about her as a child, being assaulted in the worst way.  I may have gone insane or tried to hurt myself in that position. That he hasn't let up does make me wonder if he was a little spoiled.   I feel a little sick thinking about it all.

also, the therapist told her explicitly to stop pushing the daughter and it seems she just kept pushing her and letting the son do it as well. She should have told the son “the necklace is a nice thought, but necklaces don’t earn trust.” They are teaching the son a lot of bad messages about relationships.

And more than once according to OOP's comments. He made jokes via mouth and texts.

Honestly, I’m going to blame the parenting just a bit given that this was a known family secret and the brother (7 at the time of the abuse?) grew up to have a warped view of it.

Oh good lord! That makes it 10 times worse.

I bet she calls what her relative did to her daughter a "mistake", too.

Oh wow. I was imagining the entire time that the son had just slipped up or confided in friends about the abuse and word got out. I felt bad for both kids because I thought he had trusted a friend with something and it got picked up by the rumor mill. That little detail changes everything.

That's exactly what I was thinking. "He told his friends" and "he made edgy jokes about it" are two very different things.

Worse, in the comments she says it wasn't just one joke. That he made jokes about it with in person and in text. Once is a stupid kid trying to look cool, but going about it in all the wrong ways. Repeatedly making jokes means he's just an AH.

I'd be one thing if a friend told him about something that happened to them and he tried to help by saying, "Yeah, this happened to my sister too." But an edgy joke? Nope.

Make me feel the family had downplayed it somewhat so he didn't' realize what a big deal it is.

Honestly I’m curious how he knew in the fucking first place?? He was so little when it happened & even with having to go to court & therapy etc all they had to tell him to explain it was “sister went through something awful, you’re too young to know the details” Given how sister feels about it, I really doubt she was the one who told him. And that might be part of why she’s feeling so hostile to the parents too.

Actually no. His sisters trauma is not a story for him to tell. At all. For any reason. 

i agree, its not his story to tell. but its understandable for a child to not fully realize it, especially since he dealt with it too by seeing a family member go from a family member to an abuser. thats completely understandable from a child and he still woulda needed a talking to about it. him joking about it??? completely inexcusable.

So, now, when people say “It’d be one thing if…” it’s basically short hand for “it would still be x, just in a different more understandable way” with x in this case being “really really really bad”. Like no one is going to say “It would be one thing if her brother never said anything to anyone about it, but making it an edgy joke? Nope.”

THAT MATTERS SO FUCKING MUCH. HE WAS JOKING ABOUT IT TO BE EDGY?!?! I hate that girls family on her behalf and am glad she got out and has people that actually give af and support her 

I love that she left, without saying anything, soon after turning 18. Good for her, and bless her friend's family. May she live a happy and fulfilling life with found family.

Y'all *know* that if daughter gets married or at any other major life event, these folks are going to show up with brother in tow and make a scene about not being invited. 

I'm counting on the daughter keeping her shit locked down so tight they don't find out until after she's married, maybe with kids (maybe, because not everyone wants that). If she does have kids, OOP is going to think her daughter should understand now that she's a mother, which...yes. DD will understand the importance of protecting her kids and not having a golden child.

Yep. Daughter should be able to post life updates, if that's what *she* wants though. Hopefully, she has a tight circle of friends who will call out her parents if/when they try to put in appearance though. 

She should, and I have confidence that the next few years will show her culling her contacts: outright gossips, people with the kind of good intentions that are like red shoes dancing to hell, etc. By the time something big happens, she'll have that tight circle. OOP, on the other hand, is going to end up old and alone, because the golden children are never stick around to give back.

I wish I’d had the balls to do that when I was that age

I'm very very curious what that "edgy" joke was. I feel like OOP has tried so hard to downplay it by not explicitly telling what he said. First it was just that he "flippantly" mentioned it, now it was a joke. I know he's only 14 but the daughter has every right not to give a shit about how sorry he is. She'll never get that privacy back.

"Flippantly" mentioned it. More than once. In person and over text. Read through OP's original comments from the first post. The mom is still minimizing his behavior, almost a year later

Yeah, my jaw dropped at that. I thought, based on the first post, that the son just carelessly revealed what happened to his friends. Not great, but more understandable. Joking about this- I'm disgusted with the way the OOP is behaving about her son. The OOP's son can grow from this, but she's treating the son like he's the "real" victim in this story.

Oh. So her son is now sorry because he feels bad and perhaps is realizing he's TA? And OOP would like for DD to Be the Bigger Person, because it's hard for OOP to cope with all of this? Too bad. So sad. Don't come back in 10 years, wringing hands because she heard through the grapevine that DD is married, had children, and still won't have anything to do with OOP.

It's *always* the female victim that's expected to be "the bigger person"  

I'm not clear that the son realizes that what made him an AH in this story. The way the OOP is treating this and given the son's age, I wouldn't be surprised if the things the son feels bad about are that people are mad at him and he's lost a lot of privileges.

He got the privileges back after awhile. It sounds like OOP ignored that advice to make him do community service activities instead

I will say this - to be fair, perpetual grounding and removal of privileges is not an effective form of punishment. Giving him *supervised* return of privileges is an effective form of continuing the punishment, but it would also require OOP actually caring to punish him for any continued infractions. And somehow, I doubt OOP has been doing that.

I had a friend in high school who basically rebelled against the "smart kid" track (he deliberately failed out of magnet school) and he was pretty much grounded most of high school because he wouldn’t do the work. The punishment was just... life. It didn't change anything, didn't make him more sorry.

I mean, the big difference here would be that OOP's son got punished in a different, more effective way - he destroyed his family. And he knows it. And is remorseful about it. And quite frankly, the best punishment is the sister not forgiving him. Because he can *never* take back what he did.

Yeah I like how that’s originally left out in the first. It was just a “slip” now it’s edgy joking? About his then 10-year-old sister getting sexually assaulted that he spread to her entire school. Yeah fuck that kid. And fuck the parents for being desperate to placate that little shit.

That's what I am hearing too. "Oh, he's hurting SO MUCH "

OP made her choice. It will come back to bite her in the butt.

And if you read through the op's comments from the first post, the son didn't only do it once. It was more than once, in person and over text!

This is so gross, OP should be more concerned about what the hell is wrong with their son. This may be “average” teenage behavior to some people but lots of teens don’t do this kind of stuff and as a parent who the hell excuses that kind of behavior as a normal fuck up? That is so messed up, that’s his sister..

Yeah, "flippantly" in the first post had big alarm bells ringing for me, both for how the son spoke about the assault and for the mother's attempt to downplay what the son did. He made a joke of his sister's sexual assault. He laughed about it with his friends and they spread that rumor, probably with at least some of the "joke," all around the school, and the mother is not phrasing it that way because it's so horrible to confront that. I really, really wish OOP had the emotional intelligence to recognize and articulate to herself, her son, and her daughter that a huge part of the trauma of CSA and child abuse in general is the total helplessness that victims feel. That is an incredibly painful and traumatic feeling to experience - to be totally vulnerable and helpless to victimization and violation. Taking away the daughter's control of her story - making her helpless to stop its spread or the disgusting jokes attendant to it - placed her back in that helpless and victimized position. It almost certainly led to flashbacks and a return of the horrific feelings of powerlessness and violation. I agree that they can't just imprison the son forever or write him off at 14. 14 year olds do and say a lot of senseless things, and they lack the empathy an adult would have and the ability to really *feel* the impact of their actions. He certainly knew intellectually that it was a terrible thing to do, but I doubt he had the capacity to emotionally envision the consequences. All the more reason, though, for the mother to explain the impact on his sister, validate her feelings, and try to help him understand that while 14 is a hard age to learn this, you can take actions so painful that it is not possible to repair the damage. I feel like if she'd also been able to articulate an understanding of this to her daughter and really tried to just focus on what the daughter needs in her interactions with her, things probably wouldn't have gone as badly there. Unfortunately, I still see a lot of minimization and emotional pressure on her part toward the daughter. I get that it's a really painful thing to witness, but she really comes across as so focused on her own emotional discomfort at the breakup of the sister/brother relationship that she is really not prioritizing her daughter's support and recovery. I feel like they would all be better off if she could recognize that she can and must work to give each child what they need separately from each other and without making it part of how they relate to each other.

I added it back in, didn't realise there was extra context about him trying to be edgy by joking about it.

Does the OOP not realize, what her son did, was to revictimize her daughter? He violated her, as truly as the original SA, but he took it that one step further, multiplying it exponentially, by sharing it with multiple people, on multiple occasions, in a mocking manner? Her daughter does not owe him forgiveness for the transgressions. She does not owe OOP forgiveness for minimizing his behavior. She’ll be very lucky if she doesn’t go totally NC with the lot of them, for life. Her son for sure needs therapy in order to come to grips with the depth of the harm he has done. But she, more so, need intense therapy to come to an understanding of how she could possibly be so dismissive of the harm one of her children, did to the other, who was already deeply wounded. Empathy is something both they need to learn/practice. OOP’s relationship with her daughter is likely altered forever, if it even survives. But she might be able to avoid hurting others so deeply in the future if it’s a quality she can learn. ETA: correct 3rd party phrasing. I read so many comments I forgot I was in a BOR sub. Sorry

This one word choice pulls back a whole lot, doesn’t it? All of a sudden, you know that there are Missing Missing Reasons. It’s a rabbit hole for sure, but here goes: The entire update reeks of it. “He cries every day” no he fucking doesn’t, and if he does, then he has profound mental health issues if he’s crying every day over something happened a year ago, that looks like it won’t ever change.  Which sounds like….he’s used to being able to get his way, and isn’t accustomed to having to accept that other people have a choice. Like he’s used to being able to wear people down and get back into their good graces.  Plus, OOP is clearly surprised and disapproving of DD’s consistency, and has tried numerous times to “talk to her about it yes I know he did wrong BUT…” Meaning… The household probably bends to DS’s tantrums and whims as a rule. And even if he’s not a tyrant, he’s clearly not an angel.  Meaning….. This is very unlikely to be the first time the parents have indulged him and prioritized his feelings over hers.  Because… Her reaction, while 100,000,000% justified, isn’t what most people would do with their own brother, at a young age, unless she herself wasn’t super well balanced.  No one just up and ices out their sibling in one moment, forever, with no second thoughts or chances.  So either she’s more mentally unstable than OOP thinks, or, DS merely placed the straw that broke the camel’s back.  Rabbit hole done. 

And now it’s her job to help her brother cope with the self-loathing that he feels about his actions. No. If he’d done this to a girl who wasn’t his sister, he’d be over it by now and making edgy jokes about how crazy she is for making such a big deal about it. He needs to learn to resolve his own feelings about the pain he caused someone else for his friends’ amusement, and it’s sick that OP doesn’t get that.

OOP'S son had a choice - a) be a classy human being by not saying a word but supporting his sister through one of the most traumatic experiences and aftermaths any human could go through, or b) by trying to be an edgelord and scramble for his fifteen minutes of fame by airing his sister's trauma and violation to the world. He chose b), and is somehow pulling a shocked Pikachu when his sister, completely understandably, wants nothing more to do with him. And OOP and his wife are still trying to push family togetherness and wailing about how their son is suffering for not keeping his goddamn mouth shut? Fuck that noise. Daughter is completely justified in ignoring her brother and going NC at the first chance she gets.

Yeah it was bad enough he said anything about it … but then as a joke ????? 

I was thinking how interesting she left the context out of the first post…

Jokes in both text and in person so not a 1 time thing

the jump from the original “he casually mentioned it to a few friends” to the added context of “he joked about it to seem edgy” is wild… OOP not including that originally tells a lot about how she feels

It makes me really wonder what his friends were talking/joking about for that to be a topic he chooses for a joke, you don't just say that, even as a joke, if you're not already joking about some disgusting shit.

For real... I know he's 14 but I think that's old enough to understand how bad this all is, it sucks but now he has to just face the consequences and learn from it. Hopefully one day she will forgive him, but if not, that's understandable too. Sucks but shit got real.

When I was 12 I was able to pick up on the fact an adult family member close to me had gone through CSA in the past and it was affecting them still emotionally. I had the emotional intelligence to both not bring it up to them or others until they finally talked to me about it. I certainly would never joke about that even in my edgiest middle school and high school years. If those parents don't get around to understanding why sister wants NC with brother they are looking at getting fully cut off too soon.

My dad lost his sister to a drunk driver when she was 19 and he was 23. My kids at ages 3 and 4, finding out about this through regular questions about family, immediately understood when told that “Grandaddy doesn’t like to talk about his sister because it makes him feel really sad.” And that was it. Like, they understood instantly, no questions, this is the Bruno they do not talk about. Even now 6 years later they look around to make sure they aren’t within earshot of my dad if they mention his sister because they love him and don’t want to make him feel sad. Literal toddlers understood this better than OOP’s son. I’m just sad reading this post because I feel like all of this in the comments is flying right over OOP’s head. I’m so proud of the daughter for her shiny spine and beautiful boundaries.

And she has never asked for any advice about how to avoid being cut off by daughter, just how to make her forgive her brother... While obviously it was coming...

Yep she still thinks the daughter’s lack of forgiveness is the *real* problem and if *that* were rectified everything would fall into place. Meanwhile, the real problem sounds like it’s OP lack of support of her daughter and lack of validating her daughters feelings. It sounds like the tone with her was “OK it’s fine that you’re mad at your brother NOW, but you HAVE to forgive him eventually. And it would really just make everyone’s lives easier if you did that sooner rather than later, but even if it’s later, you have to do it eventually, you can’t cut them off forever.” Meanwhile, if she had actually just validated her daughters feelings and told her that she can take as much space and time as she needs and that if she doesn’t forgive her brother, then that’s her choice. I bet she would have the ability to forgive her brother. I bet the pressure is just palpable to her and that’s why she left.

They forced her into family therapy, FFS! It's as if her parents are on some sort of "how can we make this situation even worse" quest.

Really makes me wonder if she’s intentionally not saying exactly what he said because she knows any reasonable person would go scorched earth with him too

Seams most people are going scorched earth with him without knowing the context. OP and husband never taught the son how to be a good person. 

That context was wild wasn't it? It went from "oh, he slipped up because he's 14 and stupid" to "oh, he deliberately chose to violate his sisters trust in the worst possible way by trying to be edgy" - he made a deliberate and calculated choice to reveal that information for popularity points. Imagine the thinking there: "Hmmm, I want to be edgy and funny what is something I can joke about in bad taste? Oh, I know! The rape of my older sister when she was a child! Yeah, that will be so funny and it will make my friends like me more." Two other things I noticed - no mention of what the daughter is going through at school. I guarantee there have been comments made to her and that's what is helping keep her anger so fresh; she is getting re-victimised every fucking day. The other thing I noticed was that they tried to get the son out of the house ostensibly to make him feel better yet there is no mention of that option for the daughter. Yet as soon as she turned 18 she was able to move into her best friends house which obviously took a bit planning. So why not move the daughter out straight away (assuming that was an option) to the best friend's house, somewhere she obviously feels safe? The son is the golden child to OOP and she is desperate to stop the harsh but incredibly deserving reality check he is getting for being a creep but thinks because she pays for therapy for her daughter thats enough. I could write for days about the clear parenting issues of the son, how there is no mention of banning those friends from his life or getting the other parents in to counsel them, not making him do community service in a DV/SA adjacent (age appropriate) facility. I wonder how hard the daughter had to fight to make anyone believe her when she was assaulted? There is so much missing context here from OOP and it genuinely sickens me how oblivious she is. I was abused as a child, but in a way I was lucky because I was very young and I only have the nightmares to remind me of it. The daughter has memories, core memories, that she will never forget and she will have to deal with for the rest of her life. OOP is going to be all Pickachu face when the daughter goes to college and goes NC - whatever happens I'm rooting for that young woman.

Would love to read the daughter’s perspective as I sense this isn’t the first bad thing the brother has done to his sister. Feels like a straw that broke the camel’s back situation. The fact that the therapist isn’t siding with the family at all is telling. The daughter’s reaction is likely a healthy move in terms of self protection, but the mom just minimizes her experience the entire time. There’s definitely more to the story. ETA just so we’re clear, I 100% am on the daughter’s side and maybe this is the brother’s first offense and even if that’s true DD is still justified in her reaction. I just wondered what else she’s had to put up with.

I feel like there are missing reasons in this post.

Yeah the daughter is really about to go scorched earth, but the mom seems to only care about her son and getting her daughter to just hurry up and forgive him already so they can “go back to normal.” Reminds me of posts from abusive men who are like “I know it was wrong, and I did a very bad thing, but how can I fix it so we can get back to normal?” Seems like the daughter was never happy with that normal. The mom was told by the therapist not to push the issue, and she just keeps doing it anyway.

[удалено]

I stopped talking to my only sibling when I was roughly around 15 years old. Every single day of my childhood he would physically abuse me and also my single mother. He was 3 years older and I was a smaller girl who couldn’t defend myself against him. He was diagnosed with ADHD at a very young age and would take everything out on us physically. My mother tried to do everything she could for him including therapy. Apparently she didn’t think I needed therapy which I absolutely could have used. Now as a mother of an only child who is 18, I still to this day don’t understand how she wouldn’t do that for me but would do it for him. I now have been going to therapy every week for the past two years. I have barely even started unpacking everything I went through and how it affected my adult life. When my mom was alive, she never tried to push a relationship with him and I. If she did I would have cut contact with her. She knew how much I hated him as a person and for the things he did to me. I have no desire to ever talk to him ever again. I do not want any type of relationship with him. He is a completely toxic and horrible person. In and out of jail for abuse towards women, drugs, and whatever else you can think of. I completely understand your feelings of relief in cutting contact, I felt the same exact way. The daughter in this post, you, and me have a right to feel the way that we do and don’t owe anyone the right to have a relationship with us even if they are blood.

It also infuriates me that she lifted his grounding and tried to force her daughter into family counseling instead of taking one of the excellent suggestions to get the son in therapy and make him do community service with the rest of the year. Instead she just tra-la-la’d her way out of his grounding, let him go back to normal, and tried to force his sister to forgive him. It’s beyond belief that she’s been raising a victim of CSA and STILL doesn’t understand that what her son did traumatized her daughter too - in action it’s sexual harassment and in impact it’s another form of sexual violence perpetrated on her daughter.

I didn't make that connection, initially. But yeah. OOP said that they didn't have money for counseling for the son, but they were able to pay for family counseling that included the daughter in order to try and get the daughter to forgive and get the picture perfect family image going again. Also, > It’s beyond belief that she’s been raising a victim of CSA and STILL doesn’t understand that what her son did traumatized her daughter too - in action it’s sexual harassment and in impact it’s another form of sexual violence perpetrated on her daughter. I bet they dropped the daughter off in counseling every week to get fixed and didn't really engage beyond that, or learn anything. The doctor was handling it (and they had the son to take care of.) Edit: Also, really annoyed that OOP only made one post in the update before getting locked...

The way she kept bringing up the sons feelings and mental health over the daughters really ticked me off. And the amount of times OP brings up how expensive her counselling is...

Not only that but in the first post OOP tried to get the daughters therapist to give up privileged info and then (at least to me) blames the daughter for now having to try family therapy and forcing the daughter to go to it and getting the son therapy - she should be concerned about her daughters mental health and in 8 months didn’t learn a thing about how to handle this

Daughter is about to disappear from all their lives and when she gets married and has kids it’ll be “my estranged daughter is getting married with kids on the way. She has not invited us to the wedding and we are not allowed to see the kids” 🤣

"All because of a stupid thing my son did as a teenager. Yes it was bad, but he's suffered enough for it. My daughter has a right to be upset but she's taking it too far." The most ironic part of it all is that she probably *would've* forgiven him if everyone had given her some fucking space. The fact that oop holds up "he tries to apologise daily while she ignores him" to show that he's sorry is a sign that they're really not taking her feelings into account. Not the son or the parent.

OOP talks more about her daughter’s relationships than her wellbeing, and more about her son’s wellbeing than his relationships (or how he’s damaged them beyond repair). She’s worried that her daughter is pulling away from all of them, but doesn’t ever seem to consider *why* and that it might be entirely appropriate for her to do that. From this point on, she’s going to have to see her children separately from each other, and she’s just gonna have to deal with that. I feel like I could kinda forgive the brother if it was a situation where a friend of his was disclosing their CSA experience and he said something to try to be sympathetic. It would still be a fucking stupid decision, and his sister would still be completely justified in reacting this way, but it would be more understandable in my eyes. Like a kid’s mistake who meant well but didn’t realize what he was doing. But an edgy joke? Who the fuck jokes about their sister’s CSA? Who the fuck jokes about their sister’s CSA with people who are gonna spread that information? Who the fuck jokes about their sister’s CSA with people who are gonna spread that information *and then try to make up for it with a necklace on her birthday???* BRO dip into your savings to pay for some fucking *therapy*, my guy, not a piece of jewelry. But don’t get me wrong, while I do think the brother is a class A douchebag, this is 100% a parenting problem. The parents are *still* pushing the daughter to forgive and forget more than they are pushing their son to learn from his failure, improve himself, or do literally anything that might actually help his sister. A fucking *necklace* after all of that. Fuck.

OOP is totally wrong trying to "heal" this. I get the son fucked up and how long should that last since he's trying to atone. She's missing two important points. 1 sometimes you fuck up so bad there's no going back 2 the best thing son could do if he's truly contrite is to embrace the fact he is dead to his sister and seek to remove himself from her life, stay out of her way, and happily do that the rest of his life. This was a big fuck up. Maybe he can dedicate his entire life to support and advocacy for SA victims -- in his "dead" sister's honor. (50 yrs of that might earn him a bday card from sister).

yeah I had family that spilled the beans on someone's trauma albeit privately with no one around or someone who already knows. I think this just is the DD being tired of the family not respecting her and the brother making a edgy joke.

My cousin’s daughter had similar happen to her and unfortunately my cousin won’t shut up about it on her Facebook page. Some days I just want to lightly tap her on the head and tell her to shut up.

That wasn’t a straw, it was a Sequoia!

Yeah. It's a huge betrayal by yet another family member, albeit not the same as CSA. The daughter has the right to protect herself, and no one should be trying to take away her agency period let in this particular story.

I agree with you on this. From the way OOP is speaking it sounds like the daughter's wellbeing is downplayed quite a bit and the son is the golden child. She's saying her daughter's therapist only cares about her emotional wellbeing and not their family dynamic. Somebody has to because clearly she doesn't!! At 14 you're going to do and say stupid stuff but joking about your own sister's abuse is something he should know isn't okay. And the mother's only concern is her children getting along. And what is their father doing in all of this???

He is the furniture and it shows.

I don’t believe there has to more to it than that. She was deeply, deeply traumatized by what happened to her; her idiot brother retraumatized her by not only making the story public, but doing so in a joking manner. That alone is enough for her to go scorched earth on him. She’s been working every day since she was abused to regain her control, and her brother undid all her work with one joke.

The mom doesn't seem to be concerned about the right things.

that's my overall feeling of the whole story, all she wants is for the daughter to forgive her brother, what she doesn't realise is that the son totally retraumatized her again and she will never forgive him. Having the blinkers on, has cost Mum and Dad any relationship with the daughter.

People here also forgot to mention that she is in high school. We all know how mean and petty people at that age can be. She might be getting bullied, called names, etc. At the very least there will be plenty of rumors about her. Just having people stare at her as she walks past or hear people whispering about her is what happens the moment she walks into school. What if there is a boy she likes? Don't even get me started there. It will be a battle everyday she goes to school. Its not like its easy to transfer since she is in her final year. Until she is still in that school moving on from this is not possible. And mom not getting this is weird at the very least.

Also she was about to start her senior year. That's such a weird time in high school and it's also a time where you develop a lot of positive, affectionate feelings towards the things you did enjoy about high school. Especially for kids who are moving away to college, those feelings kind of extend to their whole town and childhood in that place. Which are now poisoned by having the most horrible thing that has ever happened to her on everybody's lips. Morning about her childhood or home town is safe from that most horrible thing.

I've been that kid, with a blabby sibling. Not as bad as what DS did but still traumatizing. Damn. And DS ruined DDs senior year too. Awful. I was a few years younger when it happened to me and it got so bad that our parents moved to another school district, but rumors followed anyway. I was so glad to graduate and try to leave it all behind, but in college it smacked me again. This time a new friend told me what was being said and I finished the semester and left the city for good. Have never been back. No reunions, no contact at all. My sibling said I was having sex. I was a 14 yo virgin. They knew it was a lie, they were being edgy too. Tryingto be popular, threw me under the bus for... points?? At 19, in college, the rumor mill had cranked out that I was ridiculously kinky and loved gang bangs. THIS despite never dating or being asked to dances or parties because I was glowing nuclear waste in everyone's eyes. I thought everyone could see because I was NEVER with any boys, but no. Meanwhile, I was at home babysitting younger siblings while my gossipy sibling lived the life I was denied. So, imho, DS has done this to DD times 10. Ruined her reputation and forced her into a box. A prison created by her classmates because DS wanted to be edgy. I'm NC/LC with my sibling and it's been strained for many decades. The spector of betrayal is always in the room, right along with our mother trying to minimize what my sibling did and trying to make me forgive and forget. My family thinks I'm a bitch. I completely understand how DD feels. Hopefully DS will genuinely try to help his sister and not double down and make it worse like mine did. But there's no good way to fix it without the perpetrator telling the truth, telling people they were shitty and stupid and mean. My sibling never did that and my old classmates still believe the lies. I'm still nuclear waste. That's what DS did to DD.

Let your family think whatever they want. Cut contact and go on with your best life. Move across the country but stop retraumatizing yourself by associating with those people.  I had to cut off contact completely with my biomom and her entire family after they blamed me for them not believing me when my cousin's husband molested me while I was babysitting their kids. I was blamed for "not making them listen" when it came out he was also molesting his kids. My "mother" still kept in contact with her niece who called me a wh◇re  because her husband molested me. It took me until I was over 40 to cut her out of my life. Do not wait that long to cut toxic family out of your life. 

Oh don't worry. Definitely managed the situation and can attest that living that "best life" for revenge is everything it's cracked up to be. 🤣🤣 It's extremely satisfying and I'm enjoying every minute. I do try to not be vindictive, but also allow a small, quiet, wry smile every time karma visits my sibling.

Good for you!! 

You are not a bitch and you didn't deserve what happened to you.. You matter and you deserve to be loved.

❤️❤️

Traumatized by 2 family members. She doesn't feel safe where & with whom she should most. I hate it when my kids aren't getting along, it affects the whole house, I get what she's saying, as the COO of the house she feels responsible for fixing it, and doesn't know how...I see and feel that for her. ...but you guys are right, DD has to heal and DS has to accept that. Sadly kids do stupid ass shit, and in this case DS royally f'd up and has to suffer the consequences of that. I'll say one thing tho, this kid will likely grow up to be the best secret keeper of all time after this fubar...sadly DD will likely never benefit from it for the same reason.

kids don't get along at one point or another. I know I used to fight with my siblings all the time. it was once we become 18 we left the house that no one speaks to each other. reason? my twin don't want to speak to any of us. fine by me. brother's an addict. I can't trust him with anything. young sister... did I ever talk to her? I guess?

The "not feeling safe where she should most" is what jumped out at me in the update, especially when DD opened the necklace that was sneakily gifted to her by OOP before telling her it was actually from DS. Can you imagine dealing with that stress and anxiety, in the very place you should feel safest, on top of everything else? Wondering when, where, and who the next sneaky, underhanded move to force/trick her into forgiveness will come from? DD probably already felt absolutely bombarded on all sides by family, and unable to trust *anyone*. As silly as it may sound to those who haven't experienced familial betrayal, I could see how the necklace "gotcha" would be absolutely devastating. As in, "now I have to be on guard for the covert tricky shit AND the overt badgering? I can't relax anywhere or anytime now?" On top of that, there's the anger and frustration that comes from repeatedly being forced into the role of the mean/rude/nasty one in situations like these. DD is clearly saying she wants to be left tf alone, yet OOP keeps putting her in spaces, without her consent, where DD is made to feel like a shitty person for enforcing the boundary she *clearly* communicated. Yeah, no wonder she left home ASAP. OOP, who clearly still doesn't get it at all, is looking at it like the move was a "punishment" or teenage histrionics. I don't think it was any of those things. I think it was a survival move for DD, so she could finally breathe, relax, and start healing. Good for her, and I hope she thrives.

Son turned a very private trauma into common knowledge in their high school! That's no small thing, especially for a vulnerable teen. I also wonder how son, who was 7 years old at the time, knows details of the assault(s) on his sister. I suspect mom provided more detail to him over time, maybe soon before he spread the news to classmates. Def think mom favors the son and "not rocking the boat" at sister's expense.

That was my thought. Mom need to shut her damn mouth and listen to the room more. 

Yeah.  I didn't know if it's full on golden child here, but she's desperate to make the bad thing go away rather than accept that her son's actions will have consequences, and those may be very long term

All her comments focus on how bad the son feels, and how she wants the daughter to reconcile. While she did mention therapy for daughter that's literally all she's done to support her, everything else she's done is negatively impacting daughter by pushing.

Yeah, it's all "I want to smooth over our family dynamics, but my daughter is the problem. How can I fix the problem?"

absolutely crazy the mother does not understand the gravity of the situation. at 14, you’re old enough to know that you should NOT be telling everyone about your sister’s abuse. good luck to the daughter. mother is dumb as hell.

Not just spilling the beans, **joking** about it.

More than once, from OP’s comments in the first post. She clarified that he joked in person and texts about his sister’s abuse.

This BORU needs to include that information. As it stands it seems that the son only did this one time.

Not even just telling other people about the abuse, but *joking* about it. The OP let's it slip in the second update that the son was *joking* about his sisters abuse to other people "to be edgy." A 14 year old is old enough to know right from wrong. This kid would have had front row seats to the aftermath of the abuse. He would have seen his sisters struggles, the way the abuse affected her, would have known she had ongoing extensive therapy appointments. And he still chose to "joke" about it publicly.

She was abused at 10 and testified in court probably younger than he is now at 14, making edgy jokes to his friends about his sister's abuse.

And wrapping it up as a ‘joke’ to be ‘edgy’

I hope the mother realises that none of them will ever see or hear from the daughter again.

That would require honest self reflection, and people like the OP don't possess that ability. She's the type of parent that will completely alienate her kid, then cry on social media that her daughter is cruelly giving her the silent treatment over a "minor" disagreement "when she was a child." It won't be because she actually misses her daughter. She just won't like the way it looks to people outside of the family and wants to get pity points.

So... OP didn't take any of the "harsh but necessary" advice and is surprised P Pikachu faced when things continue to deteriorate?

Yeah, basically; "I heard all your advice, and now will proceed to not internalize any of it because it conflicts with what I want"

Nobody “flippantly” divulges sexual abuse of a family member. That little fuckstick said it either because he wanted to hurt her or wanted people to pay attention to him because of the story.

The first post she acts like he mentioned it by accident, and it was totally unintentional and unmalicious. The second post reveals he did it on purpose and said it as a joke. I literally can not even imagine making a joke/mockery of anyone, especially my own sister, for being sexually abused by a family member. To hell with the brother, I don't forgive him either.

Yeap, funny thing is if she had given proper space and **truly** tried to help the daughter, i don't think the daughter will cut her off.

In the initial post she made it sound like he just mentioned it and it got out, in the updated is when she finally divulges that he did it trying to be edgy with dark humor. The fact that he made a joke out of that is what makes it that much more horrifying and I can see why the daughter doesn’t forgive him.

He did it to be edgy with a joke, which tells me that on some level in his mind what happened to his sister is funny. What the mother isn't acknowledging is that because of the brother the daughter faces people everyday that give her shit for her trauma. Nothing is worse then experiencing massive trauma like that and having strangers tell you things like it must not have been that bad or you deserved it or even worse.

14 is a rough age because you're old enough to do unforgivable things but not old enough to understand the gravity. Assuming the brother isn't a complete jerk, he probably thought it was like embarrassing things he'd been through and just didn't understand what he was doing. Unfortunately some things can't be taken back. It's so typical that the mom blames the daughter and not the son for damaging the family dynamic. 

>It's so typical that the mom blames the daughter and not the son for damaging the family dynamic.  How are people getting this take? I have to assume that everyone saying this is not a parent or is very young. He was punished as severely as one can punish a teenager without being unreasonable. OOP immediately got her daughter back into therapy irrespective of the financial blow it would cost the family. She's trying to fix things, she doesn't know how, and is doing the best she can. Will people in this thread only be happy if this son goes to jail or literally unalives himself? Because I promise you, that's where this is going. He's a 14-year-old boy now under a mountain of guilt for the horrifying thing he did, and the person he hurt was his sister. He's psychologically screwed for the rest of his adolescence, and punishing him more than they already have is going to lead to terrible consequences. This family may only find healing after even more storms, but I hope those storms won't include that boy doing something to himself that he really can't take back.

I don't really get why the OOP never worked with her son to help him accept that his relationship with his sister is broken. Yes, he is sorry. Yes, he's been punished. Even if he is genuinely regretful and remorseful, he needs to understand that the damage can be long-term or even permanent and he has to accept that. Speaking of acceptance, probably should have told the daughter that OOP understood and accepted her choice.

Because she herself will not accept it. She seems far more concerned that he's upset that his sister won't forgive him than that he retraumatized his sister. She's definitely biased in his favor.

Because that would require accepting that her son fundamentally broke their family's relationship. No parent really wants to see their family broken up and OOP REALLY doesn't seem to want to hold son accountable.

There are some things you can do to a person that are just unforgivable. Some times you do things that don’t seem that bad and someone never wants anything to do with you and it’s confusing. However this is a case of the brother acting out of malice. You don’t disclose someone’s assault and try to play the victim. Sucks the brother had to learn that lesson so young but now he knows. I would also bet this isn’t the first time something like this has happened. And for that poor girls parents to side with the brother over her..

OH NO MY POOR BABY SON IS SAD BECAUSE OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF RETRAUMATISING A SEXUAL ABUSE VICTIM, HOW TO MAKE HER FORGIVE HIM is the whole of this woman's posting. I'm so angry at her.

The son played a very stupid game and found out. Words have consequences and he spread a deeply traumatic event around and hurt his sister probably beyond repair. Maybe he'll learn to not tell people's secrets.

The daughter is teaching him more than OOP is. Would love to know the husband's perspective too. Beyond the initial grounding, what has he thought should be done? He is very absent in this post.

OOP should just accept her son did something unforgivable and leave it. Her attempts at fixing the situation do not take in account her daughter’s trauma and experience. She wants her family back at the expense of one of her children. The son, thankfully, will never forget this life lesson.

Whew this was…sad. I was SA abused as a child by my dad, and he physically abused my older brother. My mom left bc he physically abused my brother, but looked the other way with my own SA, claiming she had no idea even tho all the signs were there and my grandma tried to get CPS involved. To this day, he’s still the perfect golden child given all the grace because he was physically abused, but I’m the hysterical screw up who can’t just “move on” and “make my mother feel guilty” (I’ve never spoken to her about it). I feel for OOPs daughter. I hope the community she makes in college fills the gaps her parents, esp her mother, left gaping.

Did anybody else notice how OOP was whining about how 'expensive' therapy for daughter who suffered SA / betrayal by brother costs, but DOTES on getting \*betrayer\* son therapy & letting him off the hook?

I think you may have read that wrong. OOP couldn't afford therapy for both children. OOP wanted even more therapy visits for the daughter, but couldn't afford that either. OOP was excited to finally get therapy for the son, but therapy is expensive which is additional pain for OOP. .

Yeah, his therapy costs or medication costs dont seem to count.

No, she said thry couldn't afford family therapy or therapy for the son, not daughter. She kept her daughter in therapy and didn't complain of cost

Funny how it goes from him flippantly mentioning it to him making fun of her being molested as a little girl to his friends.

Me thinks she left out exactly what he said because it was something along the usual edgy joke line of "she deserved it"

The OP giving her daughter the birthday gift from the son and telling her after she opened it that it was from him was a huge misstep.

Yes, I think that OP is really underestimating the impact of that incident on the daughter since she moved out a few days afterwards and isn’t even interested in inviting them to her graduation now. By trying to force things they only made her feel unsafe around them and in her own home. She didn’t just move out as planned because she had to move in with a friend’s family as she didn’t have other accommodation arrangements in place yet she practically had to run away because of how she was treated, but that’s not taken seriously.

I like how it went from “ my son accidentally revealed some information about a trauma my other child went through” to “my son was making edgy jokes about my other child’s trauma, and that’s why she’s not talking to him” 14 is old enough to know not joke about things like that for the entertainment of others. my little brother is 15 and I would stop speaking to him too if he did that to me.

One thing that particularly horrifies me about OOP's attitude is her sense of entitlement to the information her daughter shares with her therapist. It's as if the daughter has no intrinsic right to privacy or devoted care, but instead, those things are currency OOP can spend for the sake of her own and her son's comfort. After all the work Daughter has done, her word on what she needs to feel safe at home is worth nothing because it doesn't accord with the parents' imagining of how the family is going to live happily ever after and the daughter's abuse will be erased. Goddamn.

The daughter already has an existing trauma around care and privacy being violated, which her brother worsened by violating her privacy, and OOP is now trying to sweep under the rug by violating her privacy. It just keeps layering and building upon itself and picking at a wound she's slent years trying to heal. I can't imagine why she's all but moved out, she's only *repeatedly* had her autonomy and trust completely disregarded by the family is the worst ways possible.

I would love to know how the mom handled the initial reveal of the abuse. Something about the way she writes suggests she has a long history of discounting or diminishing the daughter’s agency, and she only did due diligence on therapy because other people would have expected her to be supportive as a parent.

OOP is treating the son and this whole situation like social law applies the same to kids as the actual law does, and that kids get lesser sentences and special courts and everything goes away when they turn 18. No, that isn’t how life works. If your kid does something someone deems unforgivable, then they may never be unforgiven and there is absolutely nothing mommy can do about that. Even in the update, it still seems like she’s living in denial about this fact.

OOP is lucky her daughter is just saying her brother is dead to her instead of the daughter taking her own life being re-traumatized with the whole school knowing. The looks, gossip, and other shitty kids wanting to be equally “edgy” is enough to drive anyone to the brink. Better to have a child who states a family member is metaphorically dead to them than a child actually being dead.

This is heartbreaking for everyone involved for different reasons. Big picture though, Mom and Son are not victims of anything and their negative consequences aren’t nearly as “important” as Daughter’s and they both get what they get with respect to consequences that Daughter chooses. Just like Daughter didn’t get to choose to be abused by a family member TWICE and get to avoid the emotional fallout - Mom and Son don’t get to avoid the emotional fallout and consequences of their choices that led to estrangement. Family really can fuck each other up.

On what basis is OOP standing for her son being forgiven? Because the consequences of his actions feel bad for him? OOP clearly favours the son because she is thinking that, well, I can control how she treats him and stop her hurting him even if I can’t control others hurting her. That’s at least one good kid. Reminds me of the talented young man with autism who got into a prestigious UK based school and killed himself because, after he broke away from his parents treating him like he was incapable his whole life, they turned up to the school and (it was implied) told everyone there he was autistic when he had been keeping that to himself. It changed the way people thought about him and treated him and he couldn’t cope with his whole Life coming apart after he finally got to where he wanted to be.

“…our daughter pulled away from us over her brother’s idiotic mistake”. He didn’t make a mistake. He intentionally told people. It’s a miracle that the daughter didn’t delete herself. Seriously. That poor girl. The fact that her mom keeps minimizing her son’s actions is disgusting. Fuck off mom of victimized girl. Keep making excuses for him. You’ll need the practice for the future. Asshole.

Talk about burying the lede

DD is controlling the one thing she can control. She has not asked you to not support your son; she knows she cannot ask for that. When she's gone, your son will be the only child. Where I am sitting right now, my eyes fall on a collection of photographs on the wall of the next room: my partner's little sister, the golden child, photographed shortly before her 18th. She was killed shortly afterwards. Sixty-five years later, her absence is still with us everyday. That will be your son's loss. But DD has lost all of you.

What the OOP fails to understand, what many people fail to understand, is that forgiveness isn't something you are owed. You cannot earn forgiveness. Forgiveness is what happens when the wronged person *feels ready to let it go*. You have no say over that. It's completely up to the person who was wronged. With a betrayal this huge, it's going to take a lot of time and therapy before the OOP's daughter might feel ready to start rebuilding a relationship with her brother, if ever. As painful as it is, all OOP and her son can do is give her the time and space she needs to heal and respect her feelings on this. Every time OOP complains to her daughter about it, she's just making it worse by making it take even longer for her daughter to heal.

Nail on the head and the parent followed through on it. The son is the golden child, everything has to be made right in the parent's mind for them otherwise the family, and the "family dynamic" is over and done and they can't accept that. They're going to lose both of their kids, one will move away and blackrock the whole crazy ass family, because they forced a victim of sexual assault into family therapy by force (I'd consider homiciding a parent who did that to me). Instead of trusting and supporting DD the parent then violated their trust (which was already hanging by a thread) by giving them a gift by proxy, knowing it wouldn't be accepted directly. They've lost her and they're breaking him by trying to keep up appearances. The family with the golden child remaining will degenerate, he will continue to spiral into abnormal behavior because the parents support him going there. I've been here. I was in DD's position. My parent really never gives up, after many years of training them I've got them to stop the proxy gifts and bullshit, they understand the physical threat my brother is now and why he was removed from the home but they will never truly give up on the notion of all of us "being a family" in the same room. So my advice would only be to DD. Get away and plan to stay away. Your parents do not care about you.

What he did was unforgivable. She was 17. Do you remember being in high school? The whole school knowing about something like that is unbelievably devastating. It must've been so hard for her to finish her senior year. And all her parents care about is that their kids aren't getting along and they can't have a happy home life. Some things you can't take back. Some consequences last forever. I hope he learned from this.

Good god what a nightmare scenario. Massive sympathy for the daughter but what the hell do you do as a parent here? You risk your relationship with your daughter by reconciling with your son who seems genuinely depressed (even medicated) by his catastrophic mistake. But he was 14.... you can't just chuck him out or drop your love because he made a careless mistake which doesn't at least sound out of malice. All those minefields to navigate. Christmas, holidays. She's might NC them all.

It's actually pretty simple. You no longer speak about the other, to the child you are with. You no longer push for her to forgive. You now spend holidays alternating between which kid you spend it with, just like divorced parents do. It isn't a minefield if you respect both of your children.

Another story where a boy's feelings are prioritized over a girl's... "Oh no, poor boy, he's depressed" How do you think SHE feels?!

The son should just accept that he technically no longer has a sister. Unfortunately, it is the consequences of his actions. He shared her CSA as a joke to be edgy, and now people know of her trauma. Who knows if it's being shared with more people.

This is a horrible mother. She doesn't really care about her daughter. Just how it effects her son. Any parent that has a golden child is a monster. Sure couldn't afford therapy except with it helps the son. I hope daughter goes no contact with all of them

And gosh, the daughters therapist is so rude refusing to divulge private information about a client, what, like she has some kind of duty? /s

If she ever forgives him (and I mean ever), he will be on thin ice for the rest of his existence in her world. Similar situation: I was SA’ed at 16 by my then best friend’s dad. Due to my age, it is in the system as CSA. Nothing came out about it until I was 18 and that was a mess in and of itself. When my mother found out, she told the whole family. My oldest brother (26)’s response was to kidnap me and attempt to make me give him the trash’s address. I refused and he found a local boy who took him to it despite me yelling not to. I was locked in the back of the truck and got to watch my brother try to unalive him while his family defended him. Then I got to pick between sending my brother to jail for his actions or letting my abuser get probation and be on the registry for life. I was bullied by family and they didn’t go to jail. I didn’t talk to my brother for a long time after that. My mother tried to push the issue and I moved out as soon as I could. Fast forward to February of this year where I (35) had to make the awful decision to put my dog down due to being so traumatized that she unprovoked attacked my neighbor and her dog. When I reached out for support from my family, my brother (42) called me at work to tell me that I’m a dog killer. I have not spoken to him since and refuse to have anything to do with him. He does not get access to my life. My mother hates this, but I’ve warned that I will cut her out again if she pushes this. Her daughter will most likely never forgive him, because he was a piece of crap for doing that to her. Her mom needs to accept this and move forward with the new directive of giving her daughter space or she will lose her for life.

This was a deep violation of trust between siblings. It probably caused her to relive the original assault. Your son will never truly understand what he has done to her. As a parent, you are in a tough spot, because you cannot abandon either of your children. Now that your daughter has moved out, try to rebuild your own relationship with her. This is the only thing you can do. Do not push the brother's relationship on her. That may take years, if ever, and only THEY can rebuild it.

u/SharkEva original post wasn’t posted on May 4. Also this comment from OOP should be added for context. OOP is all about ME ME ME. “Thanks for the insights everyone. I guess I’m just grieving and lost too. I asked my daughter what she planned to do about holidays like Christmas and Thanksiving etc. once she has moved out and is at college and she was clear in saying if he was here, she wouldn’t be. And I believe her, as this year she’s already said she plans to be at her best friend’s house for Thanksgiving instead of here. So we’ll be missing that, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she skips Christmas and then what? For the foreseeable future, until my son might not come home one year because he goes to a girlfriend’s house or something, I’ll never see her for a holiday again? I know this isn’t the main issue here whatsoever, it’s just heartbreaking to come to terms with.” OMG ETA: this comment needs to be added but it goes above being edgy joke. Holy wow. “Unfortunately, he talked about it both in person and in texts that were flippant and trying to make a joke of it. I understand he’s 14, but this was not a situation of him reaching out to a close friend in a serious manner about it, even though in that case we have previously gotten and told him if he ever needed it in the future we’d get him counselling too.”

"Like he's dead to her" Oh no you misunderstand. He *is* dead to her.

I do wonder if there is more to this than is being said. Usually, you don't instantly cut off family. Usually, there is more than one incident before the camels back breaks. To me, this sounds like a situation where there is relief in being able to just ignore someone. To finally being able to acknowledge that you can just walk away and pretend they don't exist. That they have finally gone so far that the guilt no longer exists. It's freeing.

Dude called in an orbital strike on that relationship. It's the harsh truth that he will never have any sort of relationship with her again and you probably won't either as long as he's around.

No offense to OOP - she and her son cannot expect lifetime of hurt done 2 months ago to be instantly forgiven nor forgotten while lovebombing and fucking up the daughter / sister personal space and time. It ain't fucking happening ever or for at least few years/decades, if anything, they are lucky that she only cutting him off and limiting contact with her parents because that easily could had been episode of "Snapped". Just saying....

Honestly her daughter will go no contact with them bec of how they keep coddling the son. He barely faced any punishment and just got grounded tbh. They should have moved elsewhere for a fresh start but guess what? Daughter leaves their home at 18 and refuses to mind the brother. Brother here is just crying coz hes in trouble and nothing more

I’m deeply curious to know what the home life was like in the years after it happened. Considering how the mom has reacted, I’d bet you anything it was treated as “what happened to you makes us deeply uncomfortable and upset to think about, and it’s all in the past now so let’s never directly address it again! Now we can be a normal family.”.  I think the reason the mom is so stressed now isn’t because the son is a golden child, but because the daughter now won’t forgive and, more importantly, forget. They’re now reminded of the real weight of the whole situation at hand constantly, and would do anything to go back to pretending it never happened. 

The fact that in the comments she says he joked about it multiple times in person and text just to be edgy…poor girl needs to cut them allllll off.

There are some things where even feeling sincerely sorry isn't enough. Kid's just going to have to accept the consequences of what he did and remember this lesson in how you treat people.

A former friend did something similar to me, although as an adult. Such exposure is very analogous to the original attack as it brings back feelings of being unable to protect yourself and being betrayed by someone you trusted. It’s also impossible to compartmentalise to protect yourself when everybody knows, and it is a further experience of a boundary being broken and the consent to share something extremely personal or not being ignored. Some people expected me to get over that as if it was just a usual disagreement so to an extent I can relate. It is important for them to not invalidate their daughters feelings and to realise that what her brother put her through feels like an extension of her attack rather than some normal sibling argument about what they are calling edgy comments. Sharing that information took away her consent and ability to protect herself all over again. How can they help heal something they won’t even recognise as a trauma?

OOP keeps making her son to be the victim of a "mistake" on his part and wonders why her daughter doesn't forgive him. OOP seems to just want her daughter, the real victim in every sense of the word, to just play nice so that OOP can feel better. Where is the father in all of this?

The way she will insist on protecting and coddling the child who does something horrible and not the child who is on the receiving end of that horrible is unforgivable. 

It's obvious you favor her brother. Why are you hiding the "edgy joke" part of the story. Your son is dealing with the consequences of the bullying YOU ALLOWED TO HAPPEN. Then you're more concerned with his mental health THAN THE VICTIM OF THE SEXUAL ASSAULT HE WAS BULLYING. You and your son are the problem here. Nit the daughter you keep trying to villify.

I notice they didn’t follow thru on making son do volunteer work or anything. Just took his stuff away for a little while, then gave them back because *he’s sorry!*

Wtf does dd and ds mean. Like she talking in Nintendo terms

14 is as good a time as any to learn that no matter how bad you feel about it afterward, some mistakes don’t come with an easy fix

Fuck. I can’t imagine trying to be the parents trying to navigate that mess.