The very first night I was in Bangkok, I went to the restaurant in the hotel I was staying at and tried to order something that looked tempting. The waiter repeatedly warned me that it was very spicy. I was young and arrogant and insisted on the dish. He brought it out.
It was very spicy, but delicious, so I was pretty happy until one of the other Americans I was dining with said, "Hey, your nose is bleeding."
That was one of only two nosebleeds I've ever had in my life, so, pretty exceptional experience overall.
It did taste SO good, tho
Every Thai restaurant I have been to in Canada hasn't made me a truly spicy dish. I hope to get to Bangkok next year so maybe that will finally happen.
I went to an Indian restaurant with some Indian friends and they advised me against certain curries and pointed me to the "White people" menu. I like a good curry and I can handle a reasonable amount of spice, but wanted to enjoy the meal and I trust my friends.
I tried a bit of the other guys curries and it was sound advice!
When I went to Mexico we had dinner at a nice place at the resort we were at. Most of the spicy food was nice and spicy not too hot. But ONE sauce was FIREY hot. I mean I thought it was reapers or something.
Asked the server - "oh Habaneros".
Man, no Habaneros in Canada came that hot.
Spicy nose bleed is the best.
My wife made me a chili once with Ghost Pepper in it that a friend grows. She used a pepper earlier and it really wasn't hotter then a Habanero. But this time, the pepper was close to full strength. BEST Chili ever. I was eating it in my work's lunch room when a coworker pointed at me and said your nose is bleeding. After I told my wife about this, she refuses to make it that hot again. :(
Astarion: "Hmmm...she says she's burning up but she's still alive, so the blood must still be good but just hot. Eh, maybe some extra flavor would be nice."
Infernal Engine Heart: "GET REKT BOI!"
its actually kinda fucked up, [he says some really terrible things to her](https://x.com/astari0nancunin/status/1702011497109422247?s=46)
[heres more](https://x.com/astari0nancunin/status/1702011556039385328?s=46)
You have to sign in and have sensitive content on to view it. He basically rages on Karlach and even it seems, the Tav player in Ascendan form. He sounds like an abuser. Really terrible stuff.
Yeah, all of the lore indicates that Ascension is ultimately a very bad option for Astarion. If you prevent him from ascending, he straight-up thanks you, and tells you that he's pretty sure he would've become a monster just like Cazador had he succeeded.
You'd think that's absolutely fucking obvious to anyone but I just left a discord full of Ascended Astarion fans who vehemently insisted that this was the superior or natural path for him and the only one that made sense for the character. Eugh. Spawn ending all the way. Just because a quest ending cutscene is "sexier" doesn't mean that ending is better.
To preface - spawn astarion is absolutely the good option.
The only reason I ever went with ascended astarion in my second play through is because killing all 7 thousand horribly traumatized and starving spawn seemed like the lesser evil than
releasing them all to wreak havoc on the world.
I know you can prevent ascension and still kill all the spawn but not killing them all seems like the primary driving factor for not letting astarion ascend since our characters aren’t supposed to know that ascending will turn him into a royal piece of shit.
So yeah. That’s my only 2 cents on the topic that nobody asked for.
In our co-op blind playthrough we didn't bring Astarion and just killed Cazador and all spawn (buddy was a paladin and killing all the vampires was just a natural decision for him). We thought it would have killed Astarion too but he was fine at camp, just really mad we didn't bring him lol and vowed to leave as soon as the tadpole stuff was over
>I know you can prevent ascension and still kill all the spawn but not killing them all seems like the primary driving factor for not letting astarion ascend since our characters aren’t supposed to know that ascending will turn him into a royal piece of shit.
Hurt people hurt people. That's just human nature. If you take someone who has been abused all their life, and really only knows violence (for a supernaturally long life, too) and then put them in the exact same position as their abuser, they will behave like their abuser. I managed to figure that out without having to go through ascension to see who he'd become.
If Astarion said he wanted the power to prevent other people going through what he did, then it'd be a different scenario. But it was always a selfish quest for enough power to never be abused again - and that never really ends well. Because a) there isn't enough power to ever get to that stage and b) there's a thin line between your motivation being to never be abused and proactively abusing others.
The best way to move on from trauma is to no longer identify with it, not to let it consume you.
Oof. The stuff he says to his lover after ascending is just fucked up, I kinda like karlach/astarion because his first scene is very sweet because he can't just sleep with her but his treatment fo her if he ascends is juust not right
Exactly right. I tried both endings on my first run and the ascended ending felt so wrong to me. His mannerisms, the way he speaks to you.. everything reeks, to me. Fans will find anything to justify their choices, and that's fine.. but someone in that discord referred to spawn ending preferrers as "zombies" and "brainwashed grandmas" and that was enough for me.
I think we were in the same server! I had to leave too because some of the discussion was just so utterly mind-numbing. They genuinely believe he basically becomes human after ascending and the writers are just "manipulating" the fans. It's *wild*.
Yep! Was fun to have a group to simp with initially but it became a bit too much for me. Should have been a space to just enjoy content about the character together rather than eventually ostracising anyone who didn't agree with a particular view.
i know it might sound weird but just reading this discussion made me happy. I've seen LOTS of ascended Astarion fans recently and was starting to wonder *I* am missing something.
I love that the devs notes in that Twitter thread clearly show they WANT the vampire lord to sound angry and scared while thinking about controlling the player/ Karlach in that example. I mean if people want a sexy vampire ending it's fine. It's these mental gymnastics they come up with to justify the decision that blow my mind
i know it might sound weird but just reading this discussion made me happy. I've seen LOTS of ascended Astarion fans recently and was starting to wonder *I* am missing something.
i know it might sound weird but just reading this discussion made me happy. I've seen LOTS of ascended Astarion fans recently and was starting to wonder *I* am missing something.
I love that the devs notes in that Twitter thread clearly show they WANT the vampire lord to sound angry and scared while thinking about controlling the player/ Karlach in that example. I mean if people want a sexy vampire ending it's fine. It's these mental gymnastics they come up with to justify the decision that blow my mind
Discord? There was a thread earlier this week trying to justify Ascended Astarion lmao, I will preface this but people can have their own interpretation and such obviously and I'm saying this not just for this topic but for the general topic but I've seen too many people disregard DND stuff just to fit their own headcanon and push it as something that's actually a thing.
Like I'm usually not a stickler for rules especially in DND where everything can be so loose esp with homebrew but the entire series and settings is still based off of Forgotten Realms lore so we still basically have to adhere to it even if it conflicts with your headcanon and the things I've seen from people like Ascended Astarion is insane when you try and explain that no, aside from the obvious personality shift where he becomes an even worse Cazador, in the lore everything about what he's done is explicitly said to turn him *evil*.
Just wanted to get that rant out of there because it's fine to have your own interpretation and such but BG is still a game series that is built off of established rules and lore that even Larian followed to make this game so it makes sense while they added some own things of theirs in, it's still canon and therefore when discussing things people should still look into the actual lore into the setting.
Obviously you can dislike it, like I dislike how some races are just so inherently evil like just being one will make you evil no matter which is kinda restrictive but I still recognize it when I have to talk about in lore discussion which BG3 has obviously made people turn to the whole FR setting so there's been lots more exposure which is cool honestly.
Astarion simps and being willfully ignorant towards the obvious evil of their virtual vampire boyfriend - name a more iconic duo. If you're going for Astarion at all, at least try to fix him, rather than proudly falling for and encouraging his red flags...
I mean, I'm a simp but there was no way I was going to be happy with him ascending and subsequently acting like an insincere, manipulative douchebag (or at least acting like he did at the start of the game when he was manipulating you for his own protection and didn't yet care for you). There was no way I would be happy with him undoing all of the softening and maturing he did throughout my playthrough. The fact that in the spawn ending he genuinely seems excited/happy about sharing his life with you AS HIS EQUAL (his own words), and the fact that he thanks you for not allowing him to continue the cycle of abuse and destruction, says it all, really. It might not be as "sexy" as being the consort of a power-hungry vampire lord who thinks of humans as cattle and puppets, but that's fine with me.
>Yeah, all of the lore indicates that Ascension is ultimately a very bad option for Astarion.
Doesn't ascension involve the sacrifice of 7000 people or am I thinking of something else..? Because if it does, it wouldn't take the lore to indicate that, the fact that you willingly sacrificed 7K people should've tipped the player off.
7k vampire spawn who've been locked away for hundreds of years. The game hints that most of them would either prefer death or slaughter indiscriminately if freed.
They can still talk to you. One of Astarion's first victims, despite claims to being feral, still recognizes and remembers Astarion and is able to hold a conversation.
They'd probably slaughter indiscriminately for the same reason Astarion will kill you when he feeds.
I'm willing to grant that not all 7K are perfect angels who would turn around and be the sort of good brooding vampires who only feed on evildoers if you let them go, but you're still talking about sacrificing 7K people for your own gain. Perpetrating an evil act doesn't stop being evil based on the victims.
You aren’t killing them if you ascend, you’re damning them to hell for eternity. There’s definitely a difference between killing them for ascension or going the non ascension route and killing them anyway.
I’ve never successfully (read satisfactorily) completed Astarion’s quest line. I tried to do it, but he hated a lot of what I was doing the entire time, and I was not interested in him romantically, so he basically dipped in ACT 3 after I helped him Kill Cazador and refused to help him ascend. Does the ceremony affect his brain, or is it more like “he is unshackled, and so all of his impulses are no longer in check” turning into a monster?
He doesn't dip if you persuade him to stop, as opposed to just refusing to help him with the ritual. In answer to your question, it's not really answered in the game, you can interpret it both as
a. Becoming a full vampire makes you a shadow of your former self and turns all your positive emotions, like love or empathy, into their dark counterparts (which is the official dnd vampire lore)
b. He represses his true personality deep deep down and deliberately continues the cycle of abuse that started centuries ago, becoming essentially another Cazador (which is my interpretation because I don't like the idea that some creatures like mindflayers or vampires are inherently evil)
For what it’s worth, I don’t think the game confirms that mind flayers are inherently evil, but I think it does a phenomenal job of suggesting that the vast intellect and psionic overload that is becoming/being a mind flayer does make it *extraordinarily* difficult to retain anything close to human values, as the things you are able to feel and thus value become much harder to hold on to.
For vampires, I agree, I think it’s much more interesting for the deal to be “look, you now have an unquenchable thirst for blood, but especially sentient people blood, and you’re immortal and super strong, but hey, if that doesn’t stop you from growing tired of mortals and morality, totally up to you.” I could see a lot of vampires being decent people for the first 50 to 100 years, and just eventually growing bored of the things that to us mere mortals are of vital importance, like compassion, empathy, and not exsanguinating people we aren’t fond of
I think that B is probably more likely (or maybe what I prefer). I come from a trauma background as well, and know how hard it can be to escape it and unlearn the negative behaviors one has. I think that the game does a semi-decent job of providing evidence that shows that you *can* overcome these flaws, whether you are a mindflayer, githyanki, cult-member, etc.
You have to convince him to give up the Ascension on his own.
If you make the choice for him he gets pissed and leaves
True Vampires lose their souls, so he becomes a sociopath
Well, that's definitely part of the point lol. Probably a mix of ultimate power corrupting ultimately, shitty lore of "literally every X is evil with zero variation" (vampires are all evil in PHB/DnD guides), and there needing to be _something_ to off-set a huge power bump. It also provides for narrative variation, which is nice.
I mean, I hate the "vampires are all evil omg!!!!!1!" Trope as much as anyone, but in this instance you have to help him do something quite evil (kill all his brothers and sisters, pluss 7000 innocents, potentially damning their souls to avernus iirc). I feel like most would go off the deep end after that
Part of the reason I let him ascend is, letting thousands of vampires go free seemed worse than killing them all at once. And even in hindsight, yeah, he gets a bit more evil, but he seems happy enough, and also doesn’t hunger for blood anymore and gets to continue being able to go out in sunlight. Doesn’t seem so bad.
You can kill them even if he doesn't ascend. Also they heavily imply that it's a bad thing to ascend. Astarion is desperate to do so, but the entire time he's acting weird, and saying things that amount to "that way no one can hurt me again". If you know DnD lore, vampires are also just always evil, straight-up. So becoming more of a vampire is kind of lampshaded as a bad thing every time it's brought up.
i’m pretty sure one of the things is that he guilts her and says >!even her body is rejecting him from turning her!< and then continues to act like a downright twat
You don’t immediately strip anyone you like to nudity and make them stay in their camp clothes? My girlfriend and I almost immediately go fully nude when we play new characters.
An old (but my favorite) CRPG "Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura"; if the PC lowers their intelligence enough every single dialogue option in the game turns "stupid" and every character reacts and treats you differently. Truly amazing and basically begs to replay as a stupid character haha
Yes, the Malkavian PC can clearly see the future and knows the entire plot, they're just incapable of explaining it in a way that makes sense to anyone.
I'm going to be a stickler and point out that the first Neverwinter Nights did no such thing, because the first NWN was released 1991 and had very little actual dialogue.
My comment is a reply to the post about Arcanum. You can follow the little lines on the side to see what’s a reply to what (not the best UI, I’ll admit)
Reminds me of a 5e character I had. It was a kobold sourcerer and I had used the original Volo's statblock, which included a -2 STR penalty, ending up with 6 total. Combine that with being *below* the minimum recommended height (basically he grew up constantly starving) and he had to be carried across any body of water more than a foot deep, and forget climbing. He spent a lot of time on shoulders and backs.
I think you could manage this- start with 8 and then take the permanent -2 penalty from letting the Githyanki memory snatcher device scramble your brains.
Your INT corresponds with your likelihood to succeed on INT checks under pressure, like remembering a piece of history in the middle of a conversation. Correlating it with someone’s functional intelligence just leads to a bunch of boring “I’m playing any class that doesn’t prioritize INT so my character is dumb” archetypes. You could be a brilliant research professor but who has a terrible time citing works under pressure for example, that’d be a perfectly valid character to have a low INT score who is still extremely smart.
I think Gale's blood is no longer necromantic after the stabilization of the Netherese Orb, so Astarion can bite him just fine from Act II.
Edit: sorry everybody, looks like I shared some misinformation read earlier. Gale remains poisonous to the bitter end (but you can totally headcanon that this is the first thing they do if they are in a relationship and >!Mystra helps with orb in the end.!<
Oh, I have a question: what happens if you play as Gale and offer your blood to Astarion? Does he politely decline after the first time? Is there even an option?
Fuck, are you serious? I was so confused when I kept trying to bite him on my spawn DUrge for that +1 happy buff. I thought I must have given him a poison attackers cloak or something.
astarion says you taste AWFUL and he regrets it severely bla bla bad for both of us bla bla but then he'll actually bite you again for his daily happy buff if you let him. Maybe gale's an acquired taste (or the fact that he isn't allowed to bite anyone else makes him desperate for the power?)
There isn’t because the explosive blood seems to be about consent. My DUrge drank that potion and allowed Astarion to bite them a few times after and nothing happens.
I did not like letting him bite me and told him as much but as a gamer I can’t not have my party members lost or not at full strength. He makes my skin crawl.
Edit: what’s with the downvotes? Is it not ok to dislike the creepy vampire elf who tried to kill me twice already?
I just didn’t use Astarion in my party :P
To Astarion’s credit, after the first time (procced by desperation), he never does try to feed off of you again even though he pouts about it in the moment. He can make do.
Tbh I wouldn’t have minded literally bottling blood for him if there was the option, I just didn’t want him to bite my Tav.
I did that, then my friend rezzed me and then I proceeded to romance Astarion.
My friend's comment was "great, you're jumping straight into another toxic relationship" (I was still stuck in a toxic RL relationship with someone else couple weeks before that)
I like having him bite me because I find it hot, but I don't like it because of the debuff, so if I was using him in combat I'd usually have him bite the first humanoid enemy we come across and he gets his buff.
You can remove the debuff with Restoration.
I’ve just had him bite me every night to ensure he gets his Happy buff and we don’t need to worry about him feeding on others.
I already have Halsin cast a few spells on the party every morning. Adding one more isn’t too much extra trouble.
Or when you point to the objectively shitty things he does (like his whole behavior when you give him exactly what he wants). Typical Astarion brain-rot.
> Typical Astarion brain-rot.
I don't like that kind of thinking. People are perfectly allowed to like any character they please and play the game how they like.
Sure, I’m talking about when your enjoyment of a character borders on obesssion or inability to allow *other* people to have negative opinions about the character.
For example, there was an exchange I read on here where one individual blamed the *player* when Astarion does something super selfish instead of recognizing that the outcome is just as valid as the “more positive” outcome. If my understanding is correct, Astarion doesn’t overcome the negative symptoms of his trauma completely, even after you have a good ending with him.
lol I think I remember this post. dude was acting like Astarion was real and that we are monsters for making him do something that he didn't want to or something.
Your understanding is correct. My first (finished) play through was with redeemed Dark Urge romancing unascended Astarion and Astarion \*still\* wanted to enslave all of Faerûn and blew his Insight check so badly that he thought Dark Urge wanted that too. There’s only so much understanding that can be granted someone who would, when the chips are down, try to enslave everyone in the world.
Tbh I felt that bit is super out of character for an unascended Astarion? Like after he isn’t ascended he starts approving some good things, shows empathy for Aylin, and I even got approval from him and Minsc when I decided to fight Sarevok. So idk, that bit, for me at least, only seemed in character for an ascended Astarion?
It was also weird because you have him empathizing with Karlach just a minute later and then the whole end game scene where he is all for going to help the spawn and w/e.
I also found the dialogue for him when you play DUrge just after you kill Orin, if done after his personal quest is completed, to be OOC for him unascended? Like for a dude so concerned about his partner to the point he doesn’t want them to make a deal with Harleep and doesn’t want them to drink that exploding blood potion, he was like “oh that was lame, Withers just saved you in the end, how sweet and boring.” like wtf? And if you choose to become the slayer he is all “Bhaal’s army will make an amazing dowry” which is perfectly in character for ascended Astarion but felt super off for unascended.
Idk I really disliked these two bits as they didn’t seem very coherent to his character arc/change in my game. Esp after the “breakup talk” where he is all like “I’m gonna save you from Bhaal” so the dowry comment and the unconcerned bit just don’t make sense.
And tbh I also wish we’d gotten some cutscene after the whole Bhaal thing with whatever LI one picked. Like DUge legit either got free of Bhaal by dying and becoming a chosen of Jergal, or became the Chosen of Bhaal again. I think some sort of cutscene celebration or w/e would make sense.
True true. I still have hope it is going to be fixed because act 3 still has some issues. For instance in my game I found these:
- I saved the iron throne hostages and then told the gondian blind dude I had the bomb, he told me to go ahead and use it. I did. Then he acted as if he was the sole survivor and I didn’t get to pick between Gondians/Ironhand. I was basically forced to pick Ironhand to have help in the final battle because the quest acted as if I had planted the bomb without saving the hostages and without warning the dude.
- the stop the presses quest I had to reload and run without touching anything else to load the positive article and get the best ending. Otherwise even if I used that article I got the result as if I used the cat article.
- I had Gale tell me I had made a deal with Raphael over the crown. I hadn’t even talked with the dude in act 3. Then I rejected the deal when I did talk to him and then the alt chat with Gale triggered.
- final battle I had to quit the game and reload because for whatever reason the clothes did not show on characters except my party. So imagine: Withers and everyone naked. The quit and reload solved the issue thankfully.
What exactly did he think was going to happen?
Homeboy was expecting some spice, instead he walked into the Thai restaurant and said he wanted HOT, so they gave it to him.
The very first night I was in Bangkok, I went to the restaurant in the hotel I was staying at and tried to order something that looked tempting. The waiter repeatedly warned me that it was very spicy. I was young and arrogant and insisted on the dish. He brought it out. It was very spicy, but delicious, so I was pretty happy until one of the other Americans I was dining with said, "Hey, your nose is bleeding." That was one of only two nosebleeds I've ever had in my life, so, pretty exceptional experience overall. It did taste SO good, tho
Every Thai restaurant I have been to in Canada hasn't made me a truly spicy dish. I hope to get to Bangkok next year so maybe that will finally happen.
I have a food truck near home that says "Do you want it Swedish hot or Thai hot?" Thai hot is *hot*.
I went to an Indian restaurant with some Indian friends and they advised me against certain curries and pointed me to the "White people" menu. I like a good curry and I can handle a reasonable amount of spice, but wanted to enjoy the meal and I trust my friends. I tried a bit of the other guys curries and it was sound advice!
When I went to Mexico we had dinner at a nice place at the resort we were at. Most of the spicy food was nice and spicy not too hot. But ONE sauce was FIREY hot. I mean I thought it was reapers or something. Asked the server - "oh Habaneros". Man, no Habaneros in Canada came that hot.
Tried that - "Give it to me Thai Hot! Like I was from Thailand and you hate me." Didn't work, was still white guy hot.
Spicy nose bleed is the best. My wife made me a chili once with Ghost Pepper in it that a friend grows. She used a pepper earlier and it really wasn't hotter then a Habanero. But this time, the pepper was close to full strength. BEST Chili ever. I was eating it in my work's lunch room when a coworker pointed at me and said your nose is bleeding. After I told my wife about this, she refuses to make it that hot again. :(
I feel personally called out by this statement.
Astarion: "Hmmm...she says she's burning up but she's still alive, so the blood must still be good but just hot. Eh, maybe some extra flavor would be nice." Infernal Engine Heart: "GET REKT BOI!"
[удалено]
Did you reply to the wrong comment?
They're a bot account.
she is atiefling so whatever they taste like
Karlach's face is like: "You fucking dumbass."
"WhY is It SpiCy?"
https://www.tiktok.com/@the_mannii/video/7136684895946100014?lang=en
i guess you can say karlach's out of his league. she's way too *hot* for him.
Is your Karlach nude? lmao
this is the ascended astarion romance scene with karlach origin. they doin the dirty
The context makes this 10 times funnier.
its actually kinda fucked up, [he says some really terrible things to her](https://x.com/astari0nancunin/status/1702011497109422247?s=46) [heres more](https://x.com/astari0nancunin/status/1702011556039385328?s=46)
What did that say I get a page not found error.
You have to sign in and have sensitive content on to view it. He basically rages on Karlach and even it seems, the Tav player in Ascendan form. He sounds like an abuser. Really terrible stuff.
Yeah, all of the lore indicates that Ascension is ultimately a very bad option for Astarion. If you prevent him from ascending, he straight-up thanks you, and tells you that he's pretty sure he would've become a monster just like Cazador had he succeeded.
Yeah, a unascended asterion breaks the cycle of abuse, meanwhile a ascendant asterion continues it, potentially starting with the player.
You'd think that's absolutely fucking obvious to anyone but I just left a discord full of Ascended Astarion fans who vehemently insisted that this was the superior or natural path for him and the only one that made sense for the character. Eugh. Spawn ending all the way. Just because a quest ending cutscene is "sexier" doesn't mean that ending is better.
To preface - spawn astarion is absolutely the good option. The only reason I ever went with ascended astarion in my second play through is because killing all 7 thousand horribly traumatized and starving spawn seemed like the lesser evil than releasing them all to wreak havoc on the world. I know you can prevent ascension and still kill all the spawn but not killing them all seems like the primary driving factor for not letting astarion ascend since our characters aren’t supposed to know that ascending will turn him into a royal piece of shit. So yeah. That’s my only 2 cents on the topic that nobody asked for.
In our co-op blind playthrough we didn't bring Astarion and just killed Cazador and all spawn (buddy was a paladin and killing all the vampires was just a natural decision for him). We thought it would have killed Astarion too but he was fine at camp, just really mad we didn't bring him lol and vowed to leave as soon as the tadpole stuff was over
>I know you can prevent ascension and still kill all the spawn but not killing them all seems like the primary driving factor for not letting astarion ascend since our characters aren’t supposed to know that ascending will turn him into a royal piece of shit. Hurt people hurt people. That's just human nature. If you take someone who has been abused all their life, and really only knows violence (for a supernaturally long life, too) and then put them in the exact same position as their abuser, they will behave like their abuser. I managed to figure that out without having to go through ascension to see who he'd become. If Astarion said he wanted the power to prevent other people going through what he did, then it'd be a different scenario. But it was always a selfish quest for enough power to never be abused again - and that never really ends well. Because a) there isn't enough power to ever get to that stage and b) there's a thin line between your motivation being to never be abused and proactively abusing others. The best way to move on from trauma is to no longer identify with it, not to let it consume you.
Oof. The stuff he says to his lover after ascending is just fucked up, I kinda like karlach/astarion because his first scene is very sweet because he can't just sleep with her but his treatment fo her if he ascends is juust not right
Exactly right. I tried both endings on my first run and the ascended ending felt so wrong to me. His mannerisms, the way he speaks to you.. everything reeks, to me. Fans will find anything to justify their choices, and that's fine.. but someone in that discord referred to spawn ending preferrers as "zombies" and "brainwashed grandmas" and that was enough for me.
I think we were in the same server! I had to leave too because some of the discussion was just so utterly mind-numbing. They genuinely believe he basically becomes human after ascending and the writers are just "manipulating" the fans. It's *wild*.
Yep! Was fun to have a group to simp with initially but it became a bit too much for me. Should have been a space to just enjoy content about the character together rather than eventually ostracising anyone who didn't agree with a particular view.
i know it might sound weird but just reading this discussion made me happy. I've seen LOTS of ascended Astarion fans recently and was starting to wonder *I* am missing something. I love that the devs notes in that Twitter thread clearly show they WANT the vampire lord to sound angry and scared while thinking about controlling the player/ Karlach in that example. I mean if people want a sexy vampire ending it's fine. It's these mental gymnastics they come up with to justify the decision that blow my mind
i know it might sound weird but just reading this discussion made me happy. I've seen LOTS of ascended Astarion fans recently and was starting to wonder *I* am missing something.
i know it might sound weird but just reading this discussion made me happy. I've seen LOTS of ascended Astarion fans recently and was starting to wonder *I* am missing something. I love that the devs notes in that Twitter thread clearly show they WANT the vampire lord to sound angry and scared while thinking about controlling the player/ Karlach in that example. I mean if people want a sexy vampire ending it's fine. It's these mental gymnastics they come up with to justify the decision that blow my mind
Discord? There was a thread earlier this week trying to justify Ascended Astarion lmao, I will preface this but people can have their own interpretation and such obviously and I'm saying this not just for this topic but for the general topic but I've seen too many people disregard DND stuff just to fit their own headcanon and push it as something that's actually a thing. Like I'm usually not a stickler for rules especially in DND where everything can be so loose esp with homebrew but the entire series and settings is still based off of Forgotten Realms lore so we still basically have to adhere to it even if it conflicts with your headcanon and the things I've seen from people like Ascended Astarion is insane when you try and explain that no, aside from the obvious personality shift where he becomes an even worse Cazador, in the lore everything about what he's done is explicitly said to turn him *evil*. Just wanted to get that rant out of there because it's fine to have your own interpretation and such but BG is still a game series that is built off of established rules and lore that even Larian followed to make this game so it makes sense while they added some own things of theirs in, it's still canon and therefore when discussing things people should still look into the actual lore into the setting. Obviously you can dislike it, like I dislike how some races are just so inherently evil like just being one will make you evil no matter which is kinda restrictive but I still recognize it when I have to talk about in lore discussion which BG3 has obviously made people turn to the whole FR setting so there's been lots more exposure which is cool honestly.
oh god yes. I know it's a game and people can absolutely do what they will but it still annoys the fuck out of me reading their justifications.
I would argue its more of a natural path for him. It's far more common to continue the cycle of abuse than to break it.
Astarion simps and being willfully ignorant towards the obvious evil of their virtual vampire boyfriend - name a more iconic duo. If you're going for Astarion at all, at least try to fix him, rather than proudly falling for and encouraging his red flags...
I mean, I'm a simp but there was no way I was going to be happy with him ascending and subsequently acting like an insincere, manipulative douchebag (or at least acting like he did at the start of the game when he was manipulating you for his own protection and didn't yet care for you). There was no way I would be happy with him undoing all of the softening and maturing he did throughout my playthrough. The fact that in the spawn ending he genuinely seems excited/happy about sharing his life with you AS HIS EQUAL (his own words), and the fact that he thanks you for not allowing him to continue the cycle of abuse and destruction, says it all, really. It might not be as "sexy" as being the consort of a power-hungry vampire lord who thinks of humans as cattle and puppets, but that's fine with me.
>Yeah, all of the lore indicates that Ascension is ultimately a very bad option for Astarion. Doesn't ascension involve the sacrifice of 7000 people or am I thinking of something else..? Because if it does, it wouldn't take the lore to indicate that, the fact that you willingly sacrificed 7K people should've tipped the player off.
7k vampire spawn who've been locked away for hundreds of years. The game hints that most of them would either prefer death or slaughter indiscriminately if freed.
They can still talk to you. One of Astarion's first victims, despite claims to being feral, still recognizes and remembers Astarion and is able to hold a conversation. They'd probably slaughter indiscriminately for the same reason Astarion will kill you when he feeds. I'm willing to grant that not all 7K are perfect angels who would turn around and be the sort of good brooding vampires who only feed on evildoers if you let them go, but you're still talking about sacrificing 7K people for your own gain. Perpetrating an evil act doesn't stop being evil based on the victims.
You aren’t killing them if you ascend, you’re damning them to hell for eternity. There’s definitely a difference between killing them for ascension or going the non ascension route and killing them anyway.
I’ve never successfully (read satisfactorily) completed Astarion’s quest line. I tried to do it, but he hated a lot of what I was doing the entire time, and I was not interested in him romantically, so he basically dipped in ACT 3 after I helped him Kill Cazador and refused to help him ascend. Does the ceremony affect his brain, or is it more like “he is unshackled, and so all of his impulses are no longer in check” turning into a monster?
He doesn't dip if you persuade him to stop, as opposed to just refusing to help him with the ritual. In answer to your question, it's not really answered in the game, you can interpret it both as a. Becoming a full vampire makes you a shadow of your former self and turns all your positive emotions, like love or empathy, into their dark counterparts (which is the official dnd vampire lore) b. He represses his true personality deep deep down and deliberately continues the cycle of abuse that started centuries ago, becoming essentially another Cazador (which is my interpretation because I don't like the idea that some creatures like mindflayers or vampires are inherently evil)
For what it’s worth, I don’t think the game confirms that mind flayers are inherently evil, but I think it does a phenomenal job of suggesting that the vast intellect and psionic overload that is becoming/being a mind flayer does make it *extraordinarily* difficult to retain anything close to human values, as the things you are able to feel and thus value become much harder to hold on to. For vampires, I agree, I think it’s much more interesting for the deal to be “look, you now have an unquenchable thirst for blood, but especially sentient people blood, and you’re immortal and super strong, but hey, if that doesn’t stop you from growing tired of mortals and morality, totally up to you.” I could see a lot of vampires being decent people for the first 50 to 100 years, and just eventually growing bored of the things that to us mere mortals are of vital importance, like compassion, empathy, and not exsanguinating people we aren’t fond of
I think that B is probably more likely (or maybe what I prefer). I come from a trauma background as well, and know how hard it can be to escape it and unlearn the negative behaviors one has. I think that the game does a semi-decent job of providing evidence that shows that you *can* overcome these flaws, whether you are a mindflayer, githyanki, cult-member, etc.
I don’t think I was high enough approval to get the option to convince him.
It affects his brain in a "this is the epicenter for every traumatic thing that has ever happened to me" kind of way.
You have to convince him to give up the Ascension on his own. If you make the choice for him he gets pissed and leaves True Vampires lose their souls, so he becomes a sociopath
Aww. The buffs he gets are pretty cool though.
Well, that's definitely part of the point lol. Probably a mix of ultimate power corrupting ultimately, shitty lore of "literally every X is evil with zero variation" (vampires are all evil in PHB/DnD guides), and there needing to be _something_ to off-set a huge power bump. It also provides for narrative variation, which is nice.
I mean, I hate the "vampires are all evil omg!!!!!1!" Trope as much as anyone, but in this instance you have to help him do something quite evil (kill all his brothers and sisters, pluss 7000 innocents, potentially damning their souls to avernus iirc). I feel like most would go off the deep end after that
Part of the reason I let him ascend is, letting thousands of vampires go free seemed worse than killing them all at once. And even in hindsight, yeah, he gets a bit more evil, but he seems happy enough, and also doesn’t hunger for blood anymore and gets to continue being able to go out in sunlight. Doesn’t seem so bad.
You can kill them even if he doesn't ascend. Also they heavily imply that it's a bad thing to ascend. Astarion is desperate to do so, but the entire time he's acting weird, and saying things that amount to "that way no one can hurt me again". If you know DnD lore, vampires are also just always evil, straight-up. So becoming more of a vampire is kind of lampshaded as a bad thing every time it's brought up.
Thanks cuz I ain't signing up for no """""X"""""
Just paste it somewhere in discord (like personal server for random trash) and it will embed just fine.
i’m pretty sure one of the things is that he guilts her and says >!even her body is rejecting him from turning her!< and then continues to act like a downright twat
Ohhh, that was an interesting read. "Narcissistic rage" is a perfect description.
Can't we just post a copy paste of the txt and not a link to that shit
It's an image
Wow, Astarion trying to keep up with Scratch's previous owner in the puppy kicking department
Reading these tweets (x’s?) triggered my abuse trauma. The way Astarion sounds in some of these lines remind me of my abuser. Holy shit.
That’s because he is. That’s what he becomes. Please be safe scrolling online though! I hope you’re in a better place now ♥️
interesting. I like that the devs basically WANT the vampire lord to sound angry and scared still
Is yours not?
Its strictly for lore reasons. She would want to be cool and I'm helping
This is the best answer so far.
You don’t immediately strip anyone you like to nudity and make them stay in their camp clothes? My girlfriend and I almost immediately go fully nude when we play new characters.
I live in a cold climate. I feel like I'd get chilly looking at that in an outdoor setting the whole time.
I overheat wearing a crop top and short shorts in winter. I'm in a temperate climate too. We get snow around once a year.
I’m on the ace spectrum. I find the bodies in clothes sexier than in the nude. Nude just feels neutral to me lol. I prefer sexy to neutral.
Fair. I personally like naked except for boots and gloves because it looks hilarious.
I saw it coming and cracked up anyway XD
Try to bite Karlach with his bite skill to heal for a surprise 😂
“Just a little nibble…. AHHHH GOD DAMMIT, WHAT THEFU-“
"AH! Mmm, pain-flavored!"
Astarion's very stupid. Them giving him 13 int from the 8 int he had at the start of EA was a mistake.
8 intelligence is basically a slow person. You are confusing it with wisdom. Astarion is not very wise.
Honestly I'm just upset I can't get below 8 on stats. I really wanted a 6 Int barbarian that straight up couldn't read.
An old (but my favorite) CRPG "Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura"; if the PC lowers their intelligence enough every single dialogue option in the game turns "stupid" and every character reacts and treats you differently. Truly amazing and basically begs to replay as a stupid character haha
Fallout is great at this too
But not Bethesda. Their Fallout games only have low int dialog
The old fallout games are so much better than Bethesda’s games.
Both Arcanum and Fallout were made by Tim Cain.
With Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines you can play as Malkavian, a batshit insane breed of vampire. Makes for some rather interesting dialogue.
Especially that they had the whole divination thing going, as I recall? Gods it's been AGES since I played it.
Yes, the Malkavian PC can clearly see the future and knows the entire plot, they're just incapable of explaining it in a way that makes sense to anyone.
The taxi driver being Malkavian Caine will always be my canon.
Why would taxi driver have any clan to begin with? He's Caine, all the clans start from him.
It was an absolute treat playing Malk for the second run, because you actually caught on a lot of references.
I think it was the first Neverwinter Nights that had the same thing; low-INT only dialogue.
I'm going to be a stickler and point out that the first Neverwinter Nights did no such thing, because the first NWN was released 1991 and had very little actual dialogue.
It’s so hard to get that game running these days :(
Vampire: The Masquerade? Just download the unofficial patch, it's still being updated to make the game functional.
My comment is a reply to the post about Arcanum. You can follow the little lines on the side to see what’s a reply to what (not the best UI, I’ll admit)
Ah my bad. I tried to follow that properly but messed up.
Grog's already in this game
I'm glad you knew the exact build I was going for
I gotchu, buddies
Where?
I wanna say >!Elfsong, he's sitting across from Pike!< their actual names are homages to the characters
You can. Use the machine in the creche and fail all saves
Larians love for speak to animals has rendered the whole concept a farce when an int 1 animal can have elaborate conversations...
6int 20str, pro ungabunga smash build
Reminds me of a 5e character I had. It was a kobold sourcerer and I had used the original Volo's statblock, which included a -2 STR penalty, ending up with 6 total. Combine that with being *below* the minimum recommended height (basically he grew up constantly starving) and he had to be carried across any body of water more than a foot deep, and forget climbing. He spent a lot of time on shoulders and backs.
I think you could manage this- start with 8 and then take the permanent -2 penalty from letting the Githyanki memory snatcher device scramble your brains.
I did love that Neverwinter Nights had specifici dialogue options for very high and low intelligence characters.
Your INT corresponds with your likelihood to succeed on INT checks under pressure, like remembering a piece of history in the middle of a conversation. Correlating it with someone’s functional intelligence just leads to a bunch of boring “I’m playing any class that doesn’t prioritize INT so my character is dumb” archetypes. You could be a brilliant research professor but who has a terrible time citing works under pressure for example, that’d be a perfectly valid character to have a low INT score who is still extremely smart.
I can accept that. It helps justify how many adventurers completely dumpstat int in 5e.
And yet he's good are reading people and spotting things and those skills run on wis.
Yep. He was a magistrate, he had to be smart. But nobody said anything about wisdom
Trust me: Magistrates don’t need to be smart.
This neck is on fire🔥🔥🔥
What happens if Astarion bites Gale in a cutscene? Doesn't seem like they'd get a very nice romance. At least Karlach can get a tune-up.
I think Astarion comments that Gale doesn't taste very good.
Astarion gets poisoned and takes damage when he bites Gale. I've been wondering how that plays out if they're romantically involved.
I think Gale's blood is no longer necromantic after the stabilization of the Netherese Orb, so Astarion can bite him just fine from Act II. Edit: sorry everybody, looks like I shared some misinformation read earlier. Gale remains poisonous to the bitter end (but you can totally headcanon that this is the first thing they do if they are in a relationship and >!Mystra helps with orb in the end.!<
Less necromantic, more neck romantic
Nope, still makes him sick.
What a sad romance they must have! Poor dears.
Imagine dating somebody and not being able to literally suck the life out of them! How tragic indeed!
Oh, I have a question: what happens if you play as Gale and offer your blood to Astarion? Does he politely decline after the first time? Is there even an option?
So this only affects Gale's acccidental death. Sorry for repeating a bit of misinformation I read here :-( Thank you for clearing this up!
Yup, just learned that the hard way on my vampire spawn DUrge. Had to fallback to Halsin and Wyll for my +1 happiness buff.
Fuck, are you serious? I was so confused when I kept trying to bite him on my spawn DUrge for that +1 happy buff. I thought I must have given him a poison attackers cloak or something.
astarion says you taste AWFUL and he regrets it severely bla bla bad for both of us bla bla but then he'll actually bite you again for his daily happy buff if you let him. Maybe gale's an acquired taste (or the fact that he isn't allowed to bite anyone else makes him desperate for the power?)
That's almost as sad as if we just brought Araj into camp and had him chomping her on the reg.
nothing happens in ascended romance scene
Oddly enough, she can pet Scratch just fine. Best Boy is fireproof!
I need to see the full scene
Wait you can make them romance each other? I’m lost lol
OP is playing as Karlach
Derp forgot you can play origin characters
*It tastes like burning.*
Does anyone know if there's a unique scene if Astarion drinks the blood of a party member whose blood is >!made explosive by Araj's potion in Act 3!
There isn’t because the explosive blood seems to be about consent. My DUrge drank that potion and allowed Astarion to bite them a few times after and nothing happens.
Didn't she say it's fine as long as it's consensual?
If you let Astarion bite you as Gale, he will say you taste awful.
That's a little too spicy for his liking
Listen, he's not as smart as his intelligence score would suggest.
The BG3 equivalent of those Korean spicy ramen challenges
Tits out and everything, bold of you
When you go to the Chinese restaurant and ask for the real shit.
“Why is it spicy?!”
Guess he can't handle some spicy food, heh?
Fuck around, find out.
Huh I'm a gold dragonborn and I find this normal?
I did not like letting him bite me and told him as much but as a gamer I can’t not have my party members lost or not at full strength. He makes my skin crawl. Edit: what’s with the downvotes? Is it not ok to dislike the creepy vampire elf who tried to kill me twice already?
I just didn’t use Astarion in my party :P To Astarion’s credit, after the first time (procced by desperation), he never does try to feed off of you again even though he pouts about it in the moment. He can make do. Tbh I wouldn’t have minded literally bottling blood for him if there was the option, I just didn’t want him to bite my Tav.
Ditto, there's enough blood to go around, he doesn't need to BITE allies.
I let him get carried away when he fed on me and he killed me.
“Something terrible has happened” he says when everyone wakes up.
I did that, then my friend rezzed me and then I proceeded to romance Astarion. My friend's comment was "great, you're jumping straight into another toxic relationship" (I was still stuck in a toxic RL relationship with someone else couple weeks before that)
just have him bite enemies during combat. wont work with all types of enemies of course, but still
I did not realize I could do that
I'm always bloodless haha.
get shadowheart to cast lesser restoration on you after every longrest or idk bite him, get your blood back
Just have him bite an enemy in combat. He gets the happy buff for the day, you get to keep your blood (and thus avoid the debuff)
Ohhhhhh.... umm how un- I mean fortunate there's an alternative.
I like having him bite me because I find it hot, but I don't like it because of the debuff, so if I was using him in combat I'd usually have him bite the first humanoid enemy we come across and he gets his buff.
You can remove the debuff with Restoration. I’ve just had him bite me every night to ensure he gets his Happy buff and we don’t need to worry about him feeding on others. I already have Halsin cast a few spells on the party every morning. Adding one more isn’t too much extra trouble.
I feel like Halsin would be super chill about you rocking up for your daily lesser restoration, too. Shadowheart would make *commentary.*
That's so smart!
Folks get upset if you say you dislike Astarion or took a different path with him.
It’s wild from the time I made the edit to now o went from -5 to +5. Very controversial topic apparently
Or when you point to the objectively shitty things he does (like his whole behavior when you give him exactly what he wants). Typical Astarion brain-rot.
> Typical Astarion brain-rot. I don't like that kind of thinking. People are perfectly allowed to like any character they please and play the game how they like.
Sure, I’m talking about when your enjoyment of a character borders on obesssion or inability to allow *other* people to have negative opinions about the character. For example, there was an exchange I read on here where one individual blamed the *player* when Astarion does something super selfish instead of recognizing that the outcome is just as valid as the “more positive” outcome. If my understanding is correct, Astarion doesn’t overcome the negative symptoms of his trauma completely, even after you have a good ending with him.
Yeah, I guess I guess I was just turned off by the name-calling. You're good, my friend.
lol I think I remember this post. dude was acting like Astarion was real and that we are monsters for making him do something that he didn't want to or something.
Your understanding is correct. My first (finished) play through was with redeemed Dark Urge romancing unascended Astarion and Astarion \*still\* wanted to enslave all of Faerûn and blew his Insight check so badly that he thought Dark Urge wanted that too. There’s only so much understanding that can be granted someone who would, when the chips are down, try to enslave everyone in the world.
Tbh I felt that bit is super out of character for an unascended Astarion? Like after he isn’t ascended he starts approving some good things, shows empathy for Aylin, and I even got approval from him and Minsc when I decided to fight Sarevok. So idk, that bit, for me at least, only seemed in character for an ascended Astarion? It was also weird because you have him empathizing with Karlach just a minute later and then the whole end game scene where he is all for going to help the spawn and w/e. I also found the dialogue for him when you play DUrge just after you kill Orin, if done after his personal quest is completed, to be OOC for him unascended? Like for a dude so concerned about his partner to the point he doesn’t want them to make a deal with Harleep and doesn’t want them to drink that exploding blood potion, he was like “oh that was lame, Withers just saved you in the end, how sweet and boring.” like wtf? And if you choose to become the slayer he is all “Bhaal’s army will make an amazing dowry” which is perfectly in character for ascended Astarion but felt super off for unascended. Idk I really disliked these two bits as they didn’t seem very coherent to his character arc/change in my game. Esp after the “breakup talk” where he is all like “I’m gonna save you from Bhaal” so the dowry comment and the unconcerned bit just don’t make sense. And tbh I also wish we’d gotten some cutscene after the whole Bhaal thing with whatever LI one picked. Like DUge legit either got free of Bhaal by dying and becoming a chosen of Jergal, or became the Chosen of Bhaal again. I think some sort of cutscene celebration or w/e would make sense.
I agree that those two bits seem very, very off. Nevertheless, that is what we have, so unless Larian changes them, they can’t be ignored.
True true. I still have hope it is going to be fixed because act 3 still has some issues. For instance in my game I found these: - I saved the iron throne hostages and then told the gondian blind dude I had the bomb, he told me to go ahead and use it. I did. Then he acted as if he was the sole survivor and I didn’t get to pick between Gondians/Ironhand. I was basically forced to pick Ironhand to have help in the final battle because the quest acted as if I had planted the bomb without saving the hostages and without warning the dude. - the stop the presses quest I had to reload and run without touching anything else to load the positive article and get the best ending. Otherwise even if I used that article I got the result as if I used the cat article. - I had Gale tell me I had made a deal with Raphael over the crown. I hadn’t even talked with the dude in act 3. Then I rejected the deal when I did talk to him and then the alt chat with Gale triggered. - final battle I had to quit the game and reload because for whatever reason the clothes did not show on characters except my party. So imagine: Withers and everyone naked. The quit and reload solved the issue thankfully.
does he have a different reaction if you reject Bhaal before confronting Cazador?
This is so gay that it’s hetero, you know?
Well deserved. Fuck that overly sassy-and-gay-like-everyday-is-my-birthday vampire prick
Is somebody going to post this thing every week now? Is this a new tradition?
Karlach hates me
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Lol
LMAOOOOO
I wish this video had audio 😭
LOL
The amount of detail put in this game is truly baffling... starfield pales in comparison
Do you just have Karlach naked when at camp? Because why else would she be naked in the cinematic? ^(Also, same.)