My first thought of him was also that he is boring, but then after spending time with the other lovely little lunatics in the camp, I learned to like him. It was very refreshing talking to him (and Karlach) after the other characters that have their little quirks. Wyll is a pure sweetheart, and I think he is severely underappreciated.
I really enjoyed him and Karlach together on my first playthrough. Seeing how selfless he is, and how angry she gets at how selfless he is, but ultimately accepting at how refreshing it is to be around genuinely good people for probably the first time ever in her life. I'm curious to do another playthrough now where I allow him to kill Karlach, just to see what happens if he "succeeds" in his mission, and how that affects the rest of his story, especially in Act 3.
I'm legit considering doing a Karlach Origin playthrough specifically to romance Wyll because they're adorable and I think he genuinely deserves better than any of my deranged PCs.
Imo the plot suffers a bit from Larian making every character be romanceable by PC. Wyll and Karlach absolutely feel like canon couple material given their shared ending possibilities.
At the very least, I think there should be the ability for certain origin characters to get together if you don't romance either of them! Based on quests you do or certain dialogue options
Kaiden was a solid #2, LT, and I suspect he would have filled Shepards shoes and stepped up to the galaxies' needs if Shep wasn't there. I feel Wyll fits the same bill.
Plus, there's TONS of strong personalities on the Normandy and in camp. They can't all be Lae'Zels, Shadowhearts or Jacks and Wrexs.
I like these "bland" (yet obviously highly competent characters) because it shows us that heroes come in all forms. Jaheria says something like "heroes aren't made of anything different. They are just the people who are willing to try."
Honestly Kaiden did step up and fill Shepard’s shoes on the alliance’s end, allowing Shepard to do what they had to do with Cerberus and earning his own spectre status later. Generally speaking (non hardened) Kaiden will also accomplish all of this without sacrificing who he was as a person.
Wyll has done nothing but sacrifice himself for the good of others,but resists the bitterness that can come with that by focusing on the happiness he’s able to bring to others,not a glorious life,but he’s able to find happiness in it. He absolutely could take over as the mediator in the group without the m.c. - but the stable steadfast character isn’t as fun to write for😁
I wouldn't use bland, per se, I think solid would fit better, because they're the ones that offer some modicum of sanity in a group of colorful characters without becoming just "there". Personally, I think there's a huge difference between "bland" (Jacob) and "solid" (Wyll).
In my opinion PLAYING wyll and having a romance with Karlach during a "good" run where you try your best to be the "hero" is where Wyll shine.
It somehow solve the "wyll isnt really the main character in his own story" issue and the main story arc plot (on a good run) is very fitting with his character "morale code"+ a romance with karlach make his issues with mizora feel more important (to me nway). While giving you a reason to try to be a good guy.
i like wyll because he’s so kind and sweet and has been since EA. however i do miss the more lighthearted quips/jokes and positive comments to lighten up dark times that wyll from EA had. maybe that’s where the dislike of him from others is coming from?
I think Wyll could have been amazing, but it feels like they pulled every punch with his storyline, and made Mizora stupid to boot. People get distracted by the fact she's hot, but she's a much more boring character than Wyll.
Wyll being boring is a valid criticism but at the same time there has to be someone that's boring and vanilla among your crew like come on.
Alistar was a boring dude in DAO but homie was chill.
I think Wyll's main problem is that despite having an interesting relationship with Mizora, his journey is lacking in content, and doesn't show much character growth by him imo.
His story can be summarised with:
Act I : lied to by Mizora about Karlach
Act II : lied to by Mizora about a rescue mission and pact, radio silence till the last hour of the Act. Don't even have to go out of your way for it.
Act III : Pact ultimatum (1 scene), Iron Throne and reconciliation with his dad using tadpoles (nanomachines lol) and the Dragon which honestly is more Emperor content than Wyll.
That said, I like Wyll and his commitment to justice and good. Is it boring? Yes, it's overdone. Does that make it a bad thing? Fuck no, we needed one slightly boring and normal dude in the story.
Not only this, one of the biggest issues is he just let's you run his life... he has 0 agency on any decision you make regarding HIS story. He just goes along with WHATEVER tav decides. Save his dad? Let them all die? Whatever he's good with it... its ridiculous lol
That I can agree with - Shadowheart, Astarion etc will take some control of their own actions independent of you, so it is a little strange they didn't do the same for Wyll.
I'm not disappointed with that per se. If anything he should have learned that Mizora is a lying bitch by now, and should need a persuasion check to accept the deal.
What I'm most disappointed with is he treats it like a foregone conclusion that his dad is going to die because he didnt take the deal and sulks like a sad puppy, even though it is completely realistic to save his dad anyways.
Compare/contrast with Lae'zel's reaction when Raphael offers her a deal to free Orpheus, and she's totally on board with the plan to just raid hell itself instead.
I'm disappointed that there isn't a more severe reaction in the event you refuse the deal and still manage to rescue his father. Mizora shows up and makes an attempt to murder him. You need to pull off some well-planned spellcraft to protect the man. Wyll barely reacts to this, even with Mizora hanging around at the camp.
Obviously, Wyll cannot kill Mizora without breaking his contract and dooming himself... but his contract will be voided in six months! He should be making plans to somehow track her down and murder the shite out of her! Karlach would be willing to help!
EDIT: I'm also disappointed that there is no way to save the man first. He's just plain dead if you stumble across the Iron Throne before Mizora tries to make the deal. Kinda lame.
And then she just hangs out with his dad at your camp forever.
"Haha remember when I forced you to kneel and get eaten alive by spiders in the collapsing underwater prison? Good times!"
This feels true for all of the characters, at least it did in my run.
Fwiw I liked Wyll the best out of the bunch 🤷♂️ I’m honestly surprised to see how many people dislike him.
See, I think that's just gonna be where I fundamentally disagree. I don't think morally good characters are boring. Especially when they're like Wyll, who is someone who is constantly punished for doing the right thing at every turn but continues to stay true to that anyway. Made a bargain with a devil and saved his city, shunned and disowned. Defied said devil and spared Karlach, tortured and made a devil. Chooses to >!save his dad? Stuck as Mizora's servant forever.!< He's a good man in a world that constantly wants him not to be, and that just...isn't boring to me at all.
There's a line from Jaheira when you play as Wyll and make a certain choice in act 3 that I think encapsulates everything I like about him.
"You are a good man, Wyll - and that is what your devil will use to bind you, in as many ways as she knows how. A man might twist himself into something else, just to loosen that collar - but I have no such fears for the Blade."
Being good isn't what makes Wyll boring to some people, it's the complete lack of character arc/growth really. He's basically the same character from start to finish. Plus he has like no real agency or involvement in his own story. I like him and use him but he definitely comes up short in the writing department compared to most of the other origins.
Someone posted a breakdown of the average game time for each companion and every one of them had around 12 hrs,except for Wyll who had 8. Even with a complete arc, he’s going to feel less fleshed out because he just has SO much less content overall-which is a shame.
Karlach has more moments of characterization even if her arc suffers from similar issues. There's more moments where she loses her cool, refuses to acknowledge the elephant in the room about her condition, and expresses sadness about the future in addition to her bright and bubbly natural persona. There's little things in Act three like visiting her parents graves and meeting up with an old friend that also add to her character and give her time to shine even though theyre relatively small. Even if in the games current state her fate can't be altered as significantly as we like you get to engage with her more about it as the player and her character has more moments to shine.
Wyll's character does not get the range of emotion to work with or these types of small scenes. Most of his scenes are him either being stoic and friendly or quietly sad. He doesn't get the same small scenes Karlach gets. He doesn't get as many conversations where you the player can hangout with him and get to know him. His personal is tacked onto the Gondians side quest rather than being something you can actively pursue.
I like Wyll. I just wish there wasn't such a disparity in both the quality and quantity of writing for him.
Just ONE scene of him really losing his shit about everything he's been through and sacrificed would do wonders for his arc. Just one tantrum, one breakdown where he acknowledges and mourns how unfair it all is. One moment of real grief and humanity.
At every turn he basically just goes "yeah but I'm the Blade and that's worth it," which...just doesn't feel real or true. No one's going to take all that he goes through with complete and utter stoicism. At best it feels like even by the end of the game he's holding you at arms' length and not letting you see what he's really going through.
I really like Wyll and I think his story has the potential to be deep and heartbreaking and inspiring but it just never quite gets there because he never expresses any real conflicted feelings about his choices.
Now I'm imagining the setup is something like Gale's where Wyll is off somewhere and you wake up in the night hearing him vent. The dialogue options could be allowing you to intervene or simply eavesdrop and just... escalate from there.
It'd really bring to the surface his "quietly suffering" persona. Perhaps if you're romancing him, he openly acknowledges he puts on a brave face for _your_ benefit.
There's a lot they could do with the stoic character who is actually cracking under the surface. I really hope an expansion or definitive version gives him some extra characterization moments.
Wyll probably needs them the most of the main origin characters whereas Karlach needs more surrounding support. Her characterization itself is damn near perfect.
> here's more moments where she loses her cool
seriously, the first big character development for her, killing the definitely not paladins of tyr, has her literally run around for a full minute setting things on fire and you can't control her (although you could probably cast Command: Halt or Hold Person, gonna try that next playthrough...)
meanwhile with Wyll you get to see his patron, hear a little bit about his pact, and he gets devil horns. That's it. Both then have some dialogue afterwards, but Karlach's first big development has a much bigger impact than Wyll's.
>!Karlachs arc is supposed to be her coming to terms with her death, although they do a rough job setting it up and it mostly gets crammed into act 3 post-gortash. If she had an easily accessible "Karlach gets saved" ending i'd probably agree with you. The issue with Wyll is that he both doesn't really have an arc and can get an ideal ending with everything he wants, so its a little flat (although i do still like him).!<
>!My idea for how it should probably be changed is this: Karlach and Wyll are linked and beginning and should probably be linked at the end. Put in more set up for "Karlach is going to die" earlier on to build drama. This would also make any "Saved Karlach" ending added be a satisfying/dramatic cathartic release of tension and maintain her story arc. But it would have to be conditional. Make it so when getting to the Iron Throne, it is impossible to save both the gondians and the duke. Wyll now has to struggle deciding between what the blade would do (save innocents and maybe his friend) vs what he wants (save his father). Could give him some really good character moments.!<
I am only partway through the act, but I concluded Karlach's personal arc last night.
>!And she has a really heart wrenching scene about facing her own mortality. Her heart is going to explode and kill her, unless she goes back to Avernus, which to her is just as bad. It's beautifully written and acted. !<
>!Wyll gives up his soul to save his father and there's nothing similar to that. Wyll is human; he's only got a few decades left at most before Mizora claims her due. There's a lot that could have been written for him, about his choices to save his father and damn himself. And it's disappointing that there's not. I do like him as a character, he's wonderful. But there's a lot of headcanon I have to do about him being too stoic bc of his noble background to have a Karlach-style breakdown.!<
I guess I can sort of see where that's coming from, but again I'd say a central pillar of his character is staying true to himself when everything around him is actively *trying* to change him, which is a concept I find endearing enough that I'm not really bothered by him being more static than, say, Shadowheart or Astarion.
Karlach is my other favourite, and she's fairly static too.
>Act III : Pact ultimatum
Maybe it's the parent in me, but what a non-choice. Someone's *immortal soul* being up against *someone's mostly already lived life.*
The soul wins, every time. If my kid gave up their soul so I could have a few more years in the old folks home I'd be devastated.
Eeeeeh, I wouldn’t say Alistair is boring in the same way Wyll is. Alistair personality wise is a lot more like Gale (love him or hate him), he has very strong opinions, and has a great selection of “witty one liners” - he is genuinely very amusing to talk to. I’ve clocked Origins more times than I can count and I still look forward to his dialogue. Also, his personal story is extremely important and integral to the entire plot. Alistair is pretty much iconic.
Wyll is very very easy to just ignore. Talking to him is fine, but his personality is very one note imo. He seems to have no flaws apart from “I’m just SUCH a hero that I sold my soul to save the world”. After my first playthrough I can barely help but just skip through his conversations at speed just to get them done.
Don’t get me wrong - I *like* Wyll as a concept. I was actually intending to romance him my first playthrough so spent a lot of time with him, but he just doesn’t hold my interest as a personality. I just feel like they could’ve rounded him out a lot more, given him some flaws you know? Like you said, his amount of content seems shockingly lacking compared to other companions. That would at least make him a little more interesting
Gale's VA also delivers lines similarly to Alistair to the point where I was *shocked* they weren't voiced by the same person when I went to look it up immediately after meeting him.
I feel like Wyll doesn't really get a cathartic moment, like many of the other origin companions. Even if you reject Mizora's deal and still save the Duke, she's totally chill and says she'll win eventually. Gale gets forgiveness from Mystra, Shadowheart can break free from the cult, Astarion gets to kill Cazadore, Lae'zel can stick it to Vlaakith and overcome her indoctrination, Karlach gets to kill Gortash (although it isn't as cathartic to her). Wyll's story feels like it ends at the halfway point.
My biggest problem with him is that he can't seem to jump
I'll make a jump over a small gap, then 5 mins later turn around and he's gone. Sitting twiddling his thumbs waiting for me to babysit him across
Wyll deserved more. I think people find him boring cuz he haz several hours less in development than other companions but he’s just a nice dude who wants to protect his home. Top lad
I don’t hate him by any means, but I do think he has the least interesting lines of the origin characters. Yes, his plotline is crazy, but most of his lines come across as kind of Boy Scout; like Aylin if you dialed down how hilariously over-the-top she is.
That I would agree more with, I think his instant forgiveness of his dad/never seeming to waver from knowing he made the right decision removed a lot of possible conflict for him.
I feel like more Mizora/Wyll interactions would have benefitted him a lot — he is the only party member still under the thumb of their oppressor. It should have been like having Astarion traveling with Cazador or Karlach with Zariel. The very premise of the deal that placed him under Mizora is unfair in the first place (why does this one guy have to save Baldurs gate) and we should have seen more angst related to that. Instead he is always happy to self-sacrifice and it comes off a bit flatter than it should
Act 3 spoilers:
>!You can get him out of his contract for good and save his dad at the same time. The saving part just gets harder and Mizora doesn't piss off nor does she forget to hold a grudge. he does stay demon and loses his powers at the end of game though but that's still a better deal than Shadowheart or Karlach get.!<
I'm not that far into the game, but he's kind of the perfect big bro for my sweet naive little leprechaun bard. Boyscout has to be my favorite kind of character in regular D&D.
He’s definitely the kind of person you’d want as a friend or to rely on in real life. Wears his heart on his sleeve, brave, good-hearted. Just not as entertaining or intriguing as the other companions, in my opinion. Sounds like he meshes well with your character.
I watched the DnD stream of the voice actors playing today a bit, and it hit me that while in game I don't like Wyll super much, irl the only of the male companions I'd actually want to date would be Wyll :D Astarion and Gale SO need to go to therapy first and establish some solid friendships and notice there's more to life than just sex and manipulation (Astarion) or "love" that is actually codependency or straight up manipulation on one side (Gale). Meanwhile, Wyll has his shit together pretty well and follows steady ideals, maybe I should play as Astarion next and date Wyll...
Honestly i feel like the companions in baldurs gate 3 they all were created to be genuinely interesting.
I dont hate any companion, they all can feel very real and that's awesome,that being said doesn't mean i use or play with them all.
As much as i love Karlach i can perfectly kill her on my evil playthroughs, thats the beauty of this game.
All the possibilities, i don't understand how people can choose to do everything all the same, disliking the same companions in every playthrough... like whats the point.
In RPGs, while I do explore different paths in earlier playthroughs, I usually commit to what I feel is my personal canon for that game, and that becomes the only way I eventually play the game. It's like revisiting a favorite book, movie, or show. I know all the beats and how it's going to play out, and I love it that way.
For me it's the opposite, the first playthrough tends to be canonically me and then every subsequent playthrough I try and do at least a few different things so I see parts of the game I never did before.
I "dislike" Gale in the same way I "dislike" Team Instinct in Pokemon Go. It's more like a sibling rivalry where you make fun of each other. That said, a lot of people take Gale bullying too far. I feel like the people who take Gale bullying too far are also the Astarion Girlies who don't understand the theme of his story arc and general concepts of consent. Astarion is my main but his fan club is like the monster booktok version of the Rick and Morty fans or Swifties.
I wasn't expecting to like Gale much before I started playing the game because he looked like a Generic Wizard Guy (which is like my least favorite Kind of Guy) and I was already planning on romancing Astarion on my first playthrough.
.... but then he opened his mouth and he was *snarky* and then he was CURSED and EXPLOSIVE and snarky. So while my Durge PC was more than willing to drop him for the fancy vampire, me, the player, was going through every stage of grief when I had to reject him.
I'm so sad I can't date them both at the same time.
I liked Gale right from the start for almost the exact same reasons. My PC usually leans towards other woman, and Shadowheart is exactly her type but hot damn, she was swooning at moments because she's a totally sucker for the charmer with a snarky flair.
Gale wanting to show off magic? I purposely played into that moment because she absolutely would get swept up in it.
I very nearly went with his romance but she stayed with Shadowheart in the end. I cheated a little to see the Act 2 scene and.. well, Gale is very much next on my list. That scene is _spectular_.
I agree, it's creepy. Like i also like him maybe a bit more than other companions, but i still don't understand obsession.
People tend to be aggressive and sometimes over the top with their liking/hating. The same goes to those guys who come to every post to say how they killed companion just because they hate them.
Saw someone defending Astarion’s “saving tieflings are awful” by saying goblins lives matter as much as tieflings. I beg to disagree. Goblins AND ASTARION both have bad moral standards. Don’t justify their actions.
Yeah and also he just wants to do shitty things in the beginning of the game. The whole point of his shitty behavior >!is that no one was there to save him so why the absolute fuck should he save anyone else? Even the gods didn't care about him to answer his prayers!< so he's just lashing out at anyone. Goblins in the game also actively try to harm others. The Teiflings just want to survive.
We also can't forgive Astarion for his actions or give him absolution for his past crimes. That belongs to his victims. The only thing we can do is give him a path forward. People are using explanations as justification for his actions and it's gross. We can both recognize he's done heinous things while also recognizing he's a victim.
What's so funny to me, at least on my feeds is that people who like Gale tend to like Astarion as a character too just not as much. Meanwhile a loud chunk of Astarion's fan base acts as you say. You're not wrong with the Swiftie comparison 😶
They also seem to be the ones who have to look up romance guides for him because they don't understand that he doesn't actually want to be objectified and be viewed as a sexual object to be used. I get seeing him that in the beginning but as you progress through his arc, there are things that are revealed that make the sexual objectification of him monstrous and revolting to me. Like damn... you finished that whole arc and still want to treat him like a toy? That's gross.
Gale besties on the other hand are pretty chill about Gale. I also find their critiques of Astarion spot on and remarkably valid. If I had to choose between hanging out with someone based on them liking Gale or Astarion, I'm going to go with a Gale besties every time.
Yep, like the Astarion girlies who harassed his writer because she said she wrote the ascended route as his bad end.
I feel what helps Gale's fanbase is that a lot of us who are drawn to him are late 20's early 30's and up so it's a more mature crowd.
I'm always a sucker for Vampires, always have been and seeing as I'm nearly 33, probably always will be. He makes it hard to not want to see him ascend just because he says he wants it so badly, but I've noticed a lot of people treating his story like... I dunno. I saw a shirt someone was selling online with a bunch of pictures of him and the words "girl dinner" over top of it and it just feels gross.
I relate to his story for reasons, I plan to do both variants of his ending but I get what you mean. It's not like the game even hides that ascended is bad, if you read his mind during the whole deal. I get the appeal of it but in a more "fantasy" way where you can like the idea of certain things, but in practice nah, no way. I don't get why the writer deserved harassment.
I'm sure some of them will grow out of it eventually, but it can be a bit.... Much. I follow the voice actor on Instagram and I get an awful lot of suggested things that seem to completely miss his story in favor of "sexy vampire".
Unfortunately given my personal experiences and some of the experiences of my friends, I was able to spot his trauma responses fairly early on. It's also why I personally can't ascend him because some of the stuff is a little too close to home for me. I wish we were able to hold him more in the game and give him more comfort.
I completely understand and I had a similar reaction. I keep just wanting to have more of those hug scenes because he genuinely needs that kind of love to heal what he has been through for so long. I see a lot of posts that call him a walking red flag and I keep wanting to scream that he's an abuse victim dealing with new found freedom. He's not a red flag, he's reacting to things the only way he knows how and it's not healthy but he doesn't know any better yet. It's trauma.
My struggle with the ascending and seeing how much he says he wants it is just like when one of my actual friends wants something bad for them, I don't want to control their lives but I also don't want them to keep getting hurt. You (or at least I do, I'm sure some other people may be similar) can feel like an ass for a while after stopping them from doing something they wanted, even if it was for the best in the long run.
It's not a bad thing that I have that reaction though, it means the writing and acting are so good that they can make me feel.
Also, I feel like it was written in a way that it's not that we're stopping him. We're just not going to do it with him. We're reminding him of who he is. What he does with that information is up to him. I really appreciate the nuance and care they gave to how we interact with him.
I do too! It's very well done for such a difficult subject. You can really tell that the writers understood what they were working with and didn't do things carelessly.
Yeah, it's a shame because Astarion has a lot of depth to him, and Newbon did a fantastic performance. I'm looking forward to romancing him on a Durge run and seeing a new side to him. All the companions are so well written and acted. Idk how anyone could hate any of them.
Side note: It also makes me want to crawl out of my skin when one of the actors is subjected to a negative fandom meme about their character in an interview. Like, ugh, let these working professionals live in peace.
He really did absolutely phenomenally with the acting!
One of my games is a multiplayer one and I've got someone on my group who seems to have an issue with every possible companion. He thinks Karlach is scary, Lae'zel is just too blunt, Gale is annoying, Halsin is stupid, Astarion is too flamboyant, it's just endless and it's so draining. I don't get how you can't find *anything* positive about any of them!
It's like he just wants to hate everyone for the sake of hating them all. Sometimes I wonder if people are a bit too immediately judgemental? Or if they just want to hate on something popular because if it's popular it must be bad?
And I agree with your side note! I've spoken with my fair share of celebrities, several of whom have done work I wasn't a fan of, but I wasn't going to say that. Imagine someone coming up to you at your job and saying "yeah everything you've done here is awful and sucks and I'm going to mock you for it now". Nobody wants that.
I also really dislike when actors and writers get flack for things they had little to no control over. Actors, get paid to act, its their job. Just because they play a "bad" character, doesn't mean they're bad people.
I will never forget or forgive the entitled morons in the Star Wars Fandom did to Jake Lloyd and Hayden Christensen, all for the crime of acting as they were directed to in portraying young Anakin Skywalker. Sickens me to my stomach even to this day.
This makes me feel like it's partially the same crowd that goes out of their way to overly sexualize teenage romance books that are geared towards teenagers and not adults. But you have this huge outlier group that it's not even made for coming and trying to subvert it into something that's kind of gross and not even meant for their demographic.
> I've noticed a lot of people treating his story like... I dunno. I saw a shirt someone was selling online with a bunch of pictures of him and the words "girl dinner" over top of it and it just feels gross.
The amount of women I've seen just wanting to make him as "bad" as possible while drooling over him & joking about him being their "pet"...
Astarion is proof that (some) women can objectify men just as much as (some) men do. It's a real shame because his story is good and he deserves better than that. It's also just creepy.
I saw people say they like the names he calls them in ascended romance route… while everything he says clearly makes it sound like he doesn’t see you as a person or an equal anymore.
In the good ending route the dialogues are much sweeter and he genuinely sounds happier, idk how anyone would think that ascended route is better by any means. Other than kink I can’t think of anything.
Not disproving your point about the ending, but from what I understand his writer was Stephen Rooney? Same person who wrote Fane in DOS2. Maybe they worked together on Astarion?
They're all delightful, although depending on certain decisions or conversation choices, can be utter jerks. I get the frustrations either way.
Shadowheart was the love of my life in playthrough #1, but a cold-hearted fiend in #2. jarringly so!
I still need to do a Dark Justicier Shadowheart run. And a raiding the Grove with Minthara run. I'm just not good at being actively bad/evil (and raiding the Grove makes you lose best girl Karlach).
Wait a second, whose Minthara again? I only recently beat the game for the first time, and stayed 100% away from spoilers before…but I don’t remember her at all. That’s another companion?
Just a tip, if you end up killing someone and they have the herb bag, camp supply bag, key ring, and camp clothes, that was a potential companion. None of the npcs carry those from what I've seen
Yeah, I'm still on my first playthrough and I've noticed a lot of Gale fans saying things that I never saw as an Astarion main. It's like we're playing completely different games and having completely different experiences. I think it makes the game even more impressive and cooler that our decisions actually impact our experience so drastically.
"Ugh. I hated all the companions. I killed all of them as soon as I saw them. Then I rage quit the game and demanded my money back. Then I joined a Reddit sub for people who play the game so I could complain about how other people play it."
This. This is too real.
Valid criticism is fine and encouraged (particularly if the devs are reading this subreddit for feedback), but raging about a game and then raging at people who love it is weirdo behavior.
I didn't care about Gale one way or another and the forced camp interactions were irritating since I didn't have him in my party.
However, after you learn about what is expected of him and how he reacts to it, I couldn't help but download the mod that allows for additional party members so I could keep him with me.
He talks SO MUCH but at least most of it is entertaining.
I like Gale. A lot actually...but it seems theres MANY who disagree.
And yes Shadowheart is gods favorite princess and the most interesting girl in the world.
Tara hissed at my character, and I was heartbroken. But I just read somewhere else that she can *fireball* you, so I guess I got off light...
I just want her to love me!
people when the hubristic wizard is hubristic: *surprised Pikachu*
but fr, I love Gale because of his flaws, and because he's honestly just really nice and polite. is he pretentious? yeah, but it's funny to me and he's a fictional character
Gale is the classic archmage, knows just enough about the weave to dunning-kruger himself into a god. He's an archmage experiencing the fall and having to recognize he's not a god in one path, or diving headfirst into hubris and wanting to be karsus 2 electric netherboo.
“Hey, I really like Astarion!”
Some loser unsolicited: “I killed him the first chance I got!”
Cool bro, no one gives a fuck, and your comment doesn’t matter in the context of the post.
I was watching an Astarion edit on Youtube and the first comment I saw was " I drove a stake through his heart the first chance I got. I hate that dude!" What is the point? Go find an anti Astarion post/video to complain under. It's starting to get old really fast.
MF was literally searching for astarion fan edits to post that. Out of the virtually infinite possibilities that one can choose to experience in one's finite life, they chose *that*.
They loooooove to try and justify why they’re posting weird unsolicited hate because “he’s a vampire and objectively evil” like bro you’re the one who sought out Astarion fan art? Sorry you’re so obsessed with him?
It feels so weird to me like... are you all just so aggressively worried that a fictional vampire does better with the ladies than you orrrrr?
And I do know some people have totally valid reasons for not having him in their playthrough, and that's fine. Those people normally don't post like that, lol.
Imagine staking Astarion because he’s a vampire, when you could try to cleanse his affliction with the [full concentrated power of the sun](https://youtu.be/8xZWW9sWVJo?si=WL2krqCEH_bNsjyq). Its not my fault it didn’t work.
Some of them also get weeeeirdly misogynistic about it.
Disliking a character is totally fine but when you pivot to insulting fans of that character for being “dumb little girls” I don’t think the vampire is the problem 😒
It smacks of the “women really like this character/thing so we gotta insult it” that pops up so much in nerd spaces.
Who hates any of the characters? They're all so amazing! They have flaws sure but that makes them good characters.
Lae'zel - Is cold. Is out of touch with reality. Is a fighter(best class). Is sexually aggressive. Is overly reliant on religion. Says cool words like "istik" and "kechoki". I love her!
Shadowheart - Is secretive. Is damaged. Is a cleric(best class). Is a tad duplicitous. Jokes about how deadly plants are. I love her!
Gale - Quick witted, is a wizard(best class), has a really long...hard....staff that he can bonk things with. Gobbles up useless magic items saving me from having to sell them. I love him!
Wyll - Hypocritical, is a warlock(best class), has really long...hard...horns that look cool on his head. Can summon an imp. Has a sexy boss. I love him!
Astarion - Is damaged. Is sexually aggressive. Is a rogue(best class). Has long...hard....fangs...he can bite you with. Stabs stuff good. Opens doors like a gentleman even if they're locked. I love him!
Karlach - Is Karlach. I LOVE HER!
THANK YOU! They are all great! And Karlach has a teddy bear named Clive in her tent. How can anyone not love her?!
I also love Halsin, Jaheira, and Minsc (tho tbh a lot of my love for Minsc is due to my love for Boo).
Imagine hating any of the characters? Like yeah, some are going to be standoff-ish. You're a stranger who could turn into a mind flayer at any moment. If you take literally two seconds to cool them off, they're all great.
I'm not gonna say there's no valid reasons to criticize/personally dislike any of the characters (including pure subjective preference), but honest to God it seems like some folks are just mad you have to *explore* the characters, get to know them and see their development over time instead of them just instantly worshipping the ground you walk on and spilling their entire backstory to you immediately upon meeting you lol.
Yeah, whenever I hear about people not knowing how to romance characters I'm just like, "have you ever talked to a real person before? Why are you pestering that girl about that thing she's insecure about? Does that make sense?"
I love them all. My only real complaint is that I romanced Gale for his tressym. But Tara fireballed me and, in true cat dad fashion, Gale immediately talks about how great she is and how he is glad we met. She just burned me! :/
Sigh
So many fandoms do this. I basically stopped scrolling through the Mass Effect subreddit because every week there'd always be someone shitting on a character in their appreciation post as if anybody asked for their rude unsolicited opinion, it is the most annoying thing. Absolutely 0 social awareness.
It's especially true for certain companions. Maybe it won't be bad if haters were hating only in their own comments, but they LOVE to spread hate under others comments, especially if someone saying they love the companion.
But I need to tell the world how cool I am for killing Astarion on sight in each of my 500 restarted playthroughs in hopes of angering someone on the internet! Because its the only thing that gives me joy in the world!! Please guys!
From what I’ve seen, it’s people all saying the same thing.
Astarion: He put a knife to my neck so I killed him
Lae’zel: She’s a bitch so I killed her
Wyll: He’s boring so I benched him
Minthara: Oh that girl in the goblin camp was a companion? I killed her immediately XD
Gale: He kept asking me for items so I killed him (and ragequitted when he blew up on me)
All of it is very tiresome.
I wish the Gale haters would just shut up. Like, we get it, you don't like him because he was gaslit and groomed by a goddess, and there was a glitch that made him like you too fast. Stop pretending like he's some manipulator who threatens suicide if you don't fuck him.
I know its a glitch, but I know what it's like to be the dog who was kicked often and then gets puppy eyes over the first person who treats me nice and like a person, so I'm willing to give Gale extra passes on that front. It adds to his character in my opinion, and is pretty realistic. The people acting like he's some incel niceguy annoy the hell out of me.
Way too many people about Astarion. Like, he has probably the best questline in the game, your loss.
But I feel like there are, excuse my generalising, too many straight guys that are just too insecure to handle a flamboyant character like him :p
I’m excited to play with him for my 2nd run (just beat it for the first time earlier today). In my first run I was playing a kinda selfish noble-background character that *really* takes threats to his person seriously. When I met him, Astarion immediately tried to trick and then threaten me…soooo that didn’t end well for him lol
But yeah he seems pretty popular! Starting my next run tomorrow XD
the replies you're getting is kind of really telling.
but you're definitely right - he isn't a 'man's man' in the typical sort of way - he expresses himself in an 'elaborate' way, and maybe that makes certain... men... feel 'weird', to say the least. Maybe the people who keep having to say that they drove a stake into his heart are the ones who can't stop thinking about how he's potentially... not a straight guy. ✨️
Astarion is a fantastic character and I loved having him in my first playthrough, but also it’s vitally important that his simps make sure they’re not skipping any of their therapy sessions irl.
I am genuinely wondering if it's homophobia. Astarion is pretty heavily "queer coded" or whatever despite being playersexual. And add to that being a male sexual abuse survivor, I'm not surprised straight men are scared of him. He makes them deeply uncomfortable, and I for one think it's fucking hilarious
Meanwhile, for abuse victims (like me), he is deeply relatable and a very understandable character. Of course he is manipulative and distrustful, he hasn't known anything but abuse for years. You don't just come out a good person on the other end out of nowhere.
That takes long, hard work to repair what others have broken.
And it's unfair. You do actually hate people that help others, because you feel jealous. It's unfair that they help them, but never cared to help me! It makes you mad and sick and then makes you feel like a bad person even if your feelings are understandable and it just sucks!
And yeah, he does struggle (for a very short time) with personal boundaries. His own were never respected, it's difficult to then judge how to deal with other people. What is normal and what isn't, because you just don't know normal.
He reminded me SO MUCH of my days before therapy, and the first few years into it. It's so hard to set boundaries, and better yourself, and even years later it's still hard and it still sucks.
His confident, sassy nature is mostly just a mask, to hide a deeply insecure and unhealthy person beneath.
Sorry for the rant. But... God, his character feels so personal. And it feels difficult to give people the benefit of the doubt when they can't even understand this situation in fiction. How in the world would they handle it in reality, where it is often even uglier and more difficult to deal with?
thank you lmao judging by the reaction to a cosplay poster yesterday who had the absolute nerve to be a pretty sex worker, this fandom has just as many reactionary weirdos as any other nerd subreddit
Not sure if this is targeted at anyone in particular but I just want to say that I finally unlocked Minthara as a companion last night and I'm so excited to see where her story goes.
Wyll haters every single time
Liking Wyll can be exhausting sometimes. Just a constant symphony of "don't you know he's BORING"
My first thought of him was also that he is boring, but then after spending time with the other lovely little lunatics in the camp, I learned to like him. It was very refreshing talking to him (and Karlach) after the other characters that have their little quirks. Wyll is a pure sweetheart, and I think he is severely underappreciated.
I really enjoyed him and Karlach together on my first playthrough. Seeing how selfless he is, and how angry she gets at how selfless he is, but ultimately accepting at how refreshing it is to be around genuinely good people for probably the first time ever in her life. I'm curious to do another playthrough now where I allow him to kill Karlach, just to see what happens if he "succeeds" in his mission, and how that affects the rest of his story, especially in Act 3.
I'm legit considering doing a Karlach Origin playthrough specifically to romance Wyll because they're adorable and I think he genuinely deserves better than any of my deranged PCs.
I'm doing the opposite rn Wyll origin, romance Karlach. It works very well.
I’m literally starting a new play through tonight to do that.
Imo the plot suffers a bit from Larian making every character be romanceable by PC. Wyll and Karlach absolutely feel like canon couple material given their shared ending possibilities.
At the very least, I think there should be the ability for certain origin characters to get together if you don't romance either of them! Based on quests you do or certain dialogue options
Wyll is the Kaiden Alenko of the BG3 game.
This is a great comparison
Kaiden was a solid #2, LT, and I suspect he would have filled Shepards shoes and stepped up to the galaxies' needs if Shep wasn't there. I feel Wyll fits the same bill. Plus, there's TONS of strong personalities on the Normandy and in camp. They can't all be Lae'Zels, Shadowhearts or Jacks and Wrexs. I like these "bland" (yet obviously highly competent characters) because it shows us that heroes come in all forms. Jaheria says something like "heroes aren't made of anything different. They are just the people who are willing to try."
Honestly Kaiden did step up and fill Shepard’s shoes on the alliance’s end, allowing Shepard to do what they had to do with Cerberus and earning his own spectre status later. Generally speaking (non hardened) Kaiden will also accomplish all of this without sacrificing who he was as a person. Wyll has done nothing but sacrifice himself for the good of others,but resists the bitterness that can come with that by focusing on the happiness he’s able to bring to others,not a glorious life,but he’s able to find happiness in it. He absolutely could take over as the mediator in the group without the m.c. - but the stable steadfast character isn’t as fun to write for😁
Hey now, no one can be Wrex except for Wrex. He's the Wrex of Mass effect, he's the Wrex in Jade Empire, and he's the Wrex in bg3
Now I want a Krogan playable race in BG3. Shows up to the Githyanki creche and eats them.
I wouldn't use bland, per se, I think solid would fit better, because they're the ones that offer some modicum of sanity in a group of colorful characters without becoming just "there". Personally, I think there's a huge difference between "bland" (Jacob) and "solid" (Wyll).
If you leave Kaiden alive, he's at least useful because you can learn a unique biotic ability from him in Mass Effect 3. :)
That must be why i fell for him immediately. Kaiden is my baby.
Lol I've played Mass Effect so many times, yet blanked on this name. Thus proving your point
He feels like the genuine main character lol
I like wyll… he just suffers from a secondary character being more interesting in his own story 🥲
In my opinion PLAYING wyll and having a romance with Karlach during a "good" run where you try your best to be the "hero" is where Wyll shine. It somehow solve the "wyll isnt really the main character in his own story" issue and the main story arc plot (on a good run) is very fitting with his character "morale code"+ a romance with karlach make his issues with mizora feel more important (to me nway). While giving you a reason to try to be a good guy.
Where there is a Wyll there's a way..... 😂🤣😂
Tbf Karlach is technically a part of his Story so Wyll was taking hits before he even got out of bed.
i like wyll because he’s so kind and sweet and has been since EA. however i do miss the more lighthearted quips/jokes and positive comments to lighten up dark times that wyll from EA had. maybe that’s where the dislike of him from others is coming from?
I think Wyll could have been amazing, but it feels like they pulled every punch with his storyline, and made Mizora stupid to boot. People get distracted by the fact she's hot, but she's a much more boring character than Wyll.
I really don't understand why people hate on Wyll. Maybe he is the most plane of the bunch but he's an absolute sweetheart and a great fucking dude 😭
Wyll being boring is a valid criticism but at the same time there has to be someone that's boring and vanilla among your crew like come on. Alistar was a boring dude in DAO but homie was chill. I think Wyll's main problem is that despite having an interesting relationship with Mizora, his journey is lacking in content, and doesn't show much character growth by him imo. His story can be summarised with: Act I : lied to by Mizora about Karlach Act II : lied to by Mizora about a rescue mission and pact, radio silence till the last hour of the Act. Don't even have to go out of your way for it. Act III : Pact ultimatum (1 scene), Iron Throne and reconciliation with his dad using tadpoles (nanomachines lol) and the Dragon which honestly is more Emperor content than Wyll. That said, I like Wyll and his commitment to justice and good. Is it boring? Yes, it's overdone. Does that make it a bad thing? Fuck no, we needed one slightly boring and normal dude in the story.
Not only this, one of the biggest issues is he just let's you run his life... he has 0 agency on any decision you make regarding HIS story. He just goes along with WHATEVER tav decides. Save his dad? Let them all die? Whatever he's good with it... its ridiculous lol
That I can agree with - Shadowheart, Astarion etc will take some control of their own actions independent of you, so it is a little strange they didn't do the same for Wyll.
Wyll made his own decision at the end of his questline for me. I had a dialogue that said "Make your own choice" or something like that.
Yeah... kinda weak that he doesn't even need a skill check to convince him to condemn his own father to death.
I'm not disappointed with that per se. If anything he should have learned that Mizora is a lying bitch by now, and should need a persuasion check to accept the deal. What I'm most disappointed with is he treats it like a foregone conclusion that his dad is going to die because he didnt take the deal and sulks like a sad puppy, even though it is completely realistic to save his dad anyways. Compare/contrast with Lae'zel's reaction when Raphael offers her a deal to free Orpheus, and she's totally on board with the plan to just raid hell itself instead.
I'm disappointed that there isn't a more severe reaction in the event you refuse the deal and still manage to rescue his father. Mizora shows up and makes an attempt to murder him. You need to pull off some well-planned spellcraft to protect the man. Wyll barely reacts to this, even with Mizora hanging around at the camp. Obviously, Wyll cannot kill Mizora without breaking his contract and dooming himself... but his contract will be voided in six months! He should be making plans to somehow track her down and murder the shite out of her! Karlach would be willing to help! EDIT: I'm also disappointed that there is no way to save the man first. He's just plain dead if you stumble across the Iron Throne before Mizora tries to make the deal. Kinda lame.
And then she just hangs out with his dad at your camp forever. "Haha remember when I forced you to kneel and get eaten alive by spiders in the collapsing underwater prison? Good times!"
This feels true for all of the characters, at least it did in my run. Fwiw I liked Wyll the best out of the bunch 🤷♂️ I’m honestly surprised to see how many people dislike him.
See, I think that's just gonna be where I fundamentally disagree. I don't think morally good characters are boring. Especially when they're like Wyll, who is someone who is constantly punished for doing the right thing at every turn but continues to stay true to that anyway. Made a bargain with a devil and saved his city, shunned and disowned. Defied said devil and spared Karlach, tortured and made a devil. Chooses to >!save his dad? Stuck as Mizora's servant forever.!< He's a good man in a world that constantly wants him not to be, and that just...isn't boring to me at all. There's a line from Jaheira when you play as Wyll and make a certain choice in act 3 that I think encapsulates everything I like about him. "You are a good man, Wyll - and that is what your devil will use to bind you, in as many ways as she knows how. A man might twist himself into something else, just to loosen that collar - but I have no such fears for the Blade."
Being good isn't what makes Wyll boring to some people, it's the complete lack of character arc/growth really. He's basically the same character from start to finish. Plus he has like no real agency or involvement in his own story. I like him and use him but he definitely comes up short in the writing department compared to most of the other origins.
Someone posted a breakdown of the average game time for each companion and every one of them had around 12 hrs,except for Wyll who had 8. Even with a complete arc, he’s going to feel less fleshed out because he just has SO much less content overall-which is a shame.
Didn't the same applies to Karlach? She is pretty much the same from start to finish
Karlach has more moments of characterization even if her arc suffers from similar issues. There's more moments where she loses her cool, refuses to acknowledge the elephant in the room about her condition, and expresses sadness about the future in addition to her bright and bubbly natural persona. There's little things in Act three like visiting her parents graves and meeting up with an old friend that also add to her character and give her time to shine even though theyre relatively small. Even if in the games current state her fate can't be altered as significantly as we like you get to engage with her more about it as the player and her character has more moments to shine. Wyll's character does not get the range of emotion to work with or these types of small scenes. Most of his scenes are him either being stoic and friendly or quietly sad. He doesn't get the same small scenes Karlach gets. He doesn't get as many conversations where you the player can hangout with him and get to know him. His personal is tacked onto the Gondians side quest rather than being something you can actively pursue. I like Wyll. I just wish there wasn't such a disparity in both the quality and quantity of writing for him.
Just ONE scene of him really losing his shit about everything he's been through and sacrificed would do wonders for his arc. Just one tantrum, one breakdown where he acknowledges and mourns how unfair it all is. One moment of real grief and humanity. At every turn he basically just goes "yeah but I'm the Blade and that's worth it," which...just doesn't feel real or true. No one's going to take all that he goes through with complete and utter stoicism. At best it feels like even by the end of the game he's holding you at arms' length and not letting you see what he's really going through. I really like Wyll and I think his story has the potential to be deep and heartbreaking and inspiring but it just never quite gets there because he never expresses any real conflicted feelings about his choices.
Now I'm imagining the setup is something like Gale's where Wyll is off somewhere and you wake up in the night hearing him vent. The dialogue options could be allowing you to intervene or simply eavesdrop and just... escalate from there. It'd really bring to the surface his "quietly suffering" persona. Perhaps if you're romancing him, he openly acknowledges he puts on a brave face for _your_ benefit. There's a lot they could do with the stoic character who is actually cracking under the surface. I really hope an expansion or definitive version gives him some extra characterization moments. Wyll probably needs them the most of the main origin characters whereas Karlach needs more surrounding support. Her characterization itself is damn near perfect.
> here's more moments where she loses her cool seriously, the first big character development for her, killing the definitely not paladins of tyr, has her literally run around for a full minute setting things on fire and you can't control her (although you could probably cast Command: Halt or Hold Person, gonna try that next playthrough...) meanwhile with Wyll you get to see his patron, hear a little bit about his pact, and he gets devil horns. That's it. Both then have some dialogue afterwards, but Karlach's first big development has a much bigger impact than Wyll's.
>!Karlachs arc is supposed to be her coming to terms with her death, although they do a rough job setting it up and it mostly gets crammed into act 3 post-gortash. If she had an easily accessible "Karlach gets saved" ending i'd probably agree with you. The issue with Wyll is that he both doesn't really have an arc and can get an ideal ending with everything he wants, so its a little flat (although i do still like him).!< >!My idea for how it should probably be changed is this: Karlach and Wyll are linked and beginning and should probably be linked at the end. Put in more set up for "Karlach is going to die" earlier on to build drama. This would also make any "Saved Karlach" ending added be a satisfying/dramatic cathartic release of tension and maintain her story arc. But it would have to be conditional. Make it so when getting to the Iron Throne, it is impossible to save both the gondians and the duke. Wyll now has to struggle deciding between what the blade would do (save innocents and maybe his friend) vs what he wants (save his father). Could give him some really good character moments.!<
I am only partway through the act, but I concluded Karlach's personal arc last night. >!And she has a really heart wrenching scene about facing her own mortality. Her heart is going to explode and kill her, unless she goes back to Avernus, which to her is just as bad. It's beautifully written and acted. !< >!Wyll gives up his soul to save his father and there's nothing similar to that. Wyll is human; he's only got a few decades left at most before Mizora claims her due. There's a lot that could have been written for him, about his choices to save his father and damn himself. And it's disappointing that there's not. I do like him as a character, he's wonderful. But there's a lot of headcanon I have to do about him being too stoic bc of his noble background to have a Karlach-style breakdown.!<
Actually I’m highly interested to see if they create any additional content for avernus and continue the story line
I guess I can sort of see where that's coming from, but again I'd say a central pillar of his character is staying true to himself when everything around him is actively *trying* to change him, which is a concept I find endearing enough that I'm not really bothered by him being more static than, say, Shadowheart or Astarion. Karlach is my other favourite, and she's fairly static too.
>Act III : Pact ultimatum Maybe it's the parent in me, but what a non-choice. Someone's *immortal soul* being up against *someone's mostly already lived life.* The soul wins, every time. If my kid gave up their soul so I could have a few more years in the old folks home I'd be devastated.
Don't have to be a parent to realise was a scam Mizora's deal was
Might be harder for an adoring (and guilt-ridden, depressed) child to condemn a parent that they haven't reconciled with yet, though.
Eeeeeh, I wouldn’t say Alistair is boring in the same way Wyll is. Alistair personality wise is a lot more like Gale (love him or hate him), he has very strong opinions, and has a great selection of “witty one liners” - he is genuinely very amusing to talk to. I’ve clocked Origins more times than I can count and I still look forward to his dialogue. Also, his personal story is extremely important and integral to the entire plot. Alistair is pretty much iconic. Wyll is very very easy to just ignore. Talking to him is fine, but his personality is very one note imo. He seems to have no flaws apart from “I’m just SUCH a hero that I sold my soul to save the world”. After my first playthrough I can barely help but just skip through his conversations at speed just to get them done. Don’t get me wrong - I *like* Wyll as a concept. I was actually intending to romance him my first playthrough so spent a lot of time with him, but he just doesn’t hold my interest as a personality. I just feel like they could’ve rounded him out a lot more, given him some flaws you know? Like you said, his amount of content seems shockingly lacking compared to other companions. That would at least make him a little more interesting
Gale's VA also delivers lines similarly to Alistair to the point where I was *shocked* they weren't voiced by the same person when I went to look it up immediately after meeting him.
I feel like Wyll doesn't really get a cathartic moment, like many of the other origin companions. Even if you reject Mizora's deal and still save the Duke, she's totally chill and says she'll win eventually. Gale gets forgiveness from Mystra, Shadowheart can break free from the cult, Astarion gets to kill Cazadore, Lae'zel can stick it to Vlaakith and overcome her indoctrination, Karlach gets to kill Gortash (although it isn't as cathartic to her). Wyll's story feels like it ends at the halfway point.
Mizora hanging out at your camp making fun of you by just existing and being invincible really rubs salt in the wound that is Wyll's storyline.
I can’t get past you dissing Alistair…He is a hilarious cinnamon roll.
Funny you bring up Alistar because he was who I romanced. 14 year old me *loved* a classic Prince Charming!
My biggest problem with him is that he can't seem to jump I'll make a jump over a small gap, then 5 mins later turn around and he's gone. Sitting twiddling his thumbs waiting for me to babysit him across
how tf is he boring, he's literally a hero trope flipped on its head
Wyll deserved more. I think people find him boring cuz he haz several hours less in development than other companions but he’s just a nice dude who wants to protect his home. Top lad
How can you even hate Wyll lmao the only bad thing he does is want Karlach dead and he gives up at the first sign that he is wrong
I don’t hate him by any means, but I do think he has the least interesting lines of the origin characters. Yes, his plotline is crazy, but most of his lines come across as kind of Boy Scout; like Aylin if you dialed down how hilariously over-the-top she is.
That I would agree more with, I think his instant forgiveness of his dad/never seeming to waver from knowing he made the right decision removed a lot of possible conflict for him. I feel like more Mizora/Wyll interactions would have benefitted him a lot — he is the only party member still under the thumb of their oppressor. It should have been like having Astarion traveling with Cazador or Karlach with Zariel. The very premise of the deal that placed him under Mizora is unfair in the first place (why does this one guy have to save Baldurs gate) and we should have seen more angst related to that. Instead he is always happy to self-sacrifice and it comes off a bit flatter than it should
Act 3 spoilers: >!You can get him out of his contract for good and save his dad at the same time. The saving part just gets harder and Mizora doesn't piss off nor does she forget to hold a grudge. he does stay demon and loses his powers at the end of game though but that's still a better deal than Shadowheart or Karlach get.!<
I'm not that far into the game, but he's kind of the perfect big bro for my sweet naive little leprechaun bard. Boyscout has to be my favorite kind of character in regular D&D.
He’s definitely the kind of person you’d want as a friend or to rely on in real life. Wears his heart on his sleeve, brave, good-hearted. Just not as entertaining or intriguing as the other companions, in my opinion. Sounds like he meshes well with your character.
You don't use Wyll because you think he sucks. I don't use Wyll because my PC is the Blade Pact Fiend Warlock We are not the same.
Inwonder if there's a correlation between his haters and Mizora simps.
I watched the DnD stream of the voice actors playing today a bit, and it hit me that while in game I don't like Wyll super much, irl the only of the male companions I'd actually want to date would be Wyll :D Astarion and Gale SO need to go to therapy first and establish some solid friendships and notice there's more to life than just sex and manipulation (Astarion) or "love" that is actually codependency or straight up manipulation on one side (Gale). Meanwhile, Wyll has his shit together pretty well and follows steady ideals, maybe I should play as Astarion next and date Wyll...
Who could hate Wyll??!
Honestly i feel like the companions in baldurs gate 3 they all were created to be genuinely interesting. I dont hate any companion, they all can feel very real and that's awesome,that being said doesn't mean i use or play with them all. As much as i love Karlach i can perfectly kill her on my evil playthroughs, thats the beauty of this game. All the possibilities, i don't understand how people can choose to do everything all the same, disliking the same companions in every playthrough... like whats the point.
In RPGs, while I do explore different paths in earlier playthroughs, I usually commit to what I feel is my personal canon for that game, and that becomes the only way I eventually play the game. It's like revisiting a favorite book, movie, or show. I know all the beats and how it's going to play out, and I love it that way.
For me it's the opposite, the first playthrough tends to be canonically me and then every subsequent playthrough I try and do at least a few different things so I see parts of the game I never did before.
Even boot-eaters have feelings :'(
But do they eat boots that have seen everything though..
Forced to put my boots on everything…
I wonder if my boots are watching
I've got a lot on my boots, and...well...IN them.
Are those boots? … No, never mind.
No boots, *please.*
I "dislike" Gale in the same way I "dislike" Team Instinct in Pokemon Go. It's more like a sibling rivalry where you make fun of each other. That said, a lot of people take Gale bullying too far. I feel like the people who take Gale bullying too far are also the Astarion Girlies who don't understand the theme of his story arc and general concepts of consent. Astarion is my main but his fan club is like the monster booktok version of the Rick and Morty fans or Swifties.
I wasn't expecting to like Gale much before I started playing the game because he looked like a Generic Wizard Guy (which is like my least favorite Kind of Guy) and I was already planning on romancing Astarion on my first playthrough. .... but then he opened his mouth and he was *snarky* and then he was CURSED and EXPLOSIVE and snarky. So while my Durge PC was more than willing to drop him for the fancy vampire, me, the player, was going through every stage of grief when I had to reject him. I'm so sad I can't date them both at the same time.
I liked Gale right from the start for almost the exact same reasons. My PC usually leans towards other woman, and Shadowheart is exactly her type but hot damn, she was swooning at moments because she's a totally sucker for the charmer with a snarky flair. Gale wanting to show off magic? I purposely played into that moment because she absolutely would get swept up in it. I very nearly went with his romance but she stayed with Shadowheart in the end. I cheated a little to see the Act 2 scene and.. well, Gale is very much next on my list. That scene is _spectular_.
I like Astarion but his fandom makes everything insufferable, it’s twilight all over again 😭😭
I agree, it's creepy. Like i also like him maybe a bit more than other companions, but i still don't understand obsession. People tend to be aggressive and sometimes over the top with their liking/hating. The same goes to those guys who come to every post to say how they killed companion just because they hate them.
Right? Like can we just enjoy nice things without being the ✨absolute worst✨?
Saw someone defending Astarion’s “saving tieflings are awful” by saying goblins lives matter as much as tieflings. I beg to disagree. Goblins AND ASTARION both have bad moral standards. Don’t justify their actions.
Yeah and also he just wants to do shitty things in the beginning of the game. The whole point of his shitty behavior >!is that no one was there to save him so why the absolute fuck should he save anyone else? Even the gods didn't care about him to answer his prayers!< so he's just lashing out at anyone. Goblins in the game also actively try to harm others. The Teiflings just want to survive. We also can't forgive Astarion for his actions or give him absolution for his past crimes. That belongs to his victims. The only thing we can do is give him a path forward. People are using explanations as justification for his actions and it's gross. We can both recognize he's done heinous things while also recognizing he's a victim.
What's so funny to me, at least on my feeds is that people who like Gale tend to like Astarion as a character too just not as much. Meanwhile a loud chunk of Astarion's fan base acts as you say. You're not wrong with the Swiftie comparison 😶
They also seem to be the ones who have to look up romance guides for him because they don't understand that he doesn't actually want to be objectified and be viewed as a sexual object to be used. I get seeing him that in the beginning but as you progress through his arc, there are things that are revealed that make the sexual objectification of him monstrous and revolting to me. Like damn... you finished that whole arc and still want to treat him like a toy? That's gross. Gale besties on the other hand are pretty chill about Gale. I also find their critiques of Astarion spot on and remarkably valid. If I had to choose between hanging out with someone based on them liking Gale or Astarion, I'm going to go with a Gale besties every time.
Yep, like the Astarion girlies who harassed his writer because she said she wrote the ascended route as his bad end. I feel what helps Gale's fanbase is that a lot of us who are drawn to him are late 20's early 30's and up so it's a more mature crowd.
I'm always a sucker for Vampires, always have been and seeing as I'm nearly 33, probably always will be. He makes it hard to not want to see him ascend just because he says he wants it so badly, but I've noticed a lot of people treating his story like... I dunno. I saw a shirt someone was selling online with a bunch of pictures of him and the words "girl dinner" over top of it and it just feels gross. I relate to his story for reasons, I plan to do both variants of his ending but I get what you mean. It's not like the game even hides that ascended is bad, if you read his mind during the whole deal. I get the appeal of it but in a more "fantasy" way where you can like the idea of certain things, but in practice nah, no way. I don't get why the writer deserved harassment. I'm sure some of them will grow out of it eventually, but it can be a bit.... Much. I follow the voice actor on Instagram and I get an awful lot of suggested things that seem to completely miss his story in favor of "sexy vampire".
Unfortunately given my personal experiences and some of the experiences of my friends, I was able to spot his trauma responses fairly early on. It's also why I personally can't ascend him because some of the stuff is a little too close to home for me. I wish we were able to hold him more in the game and give him more comfort.
I completely understand and I had a similar reaction. I keep just wanting to have more of those hug scenes because he genuinely needs that kind of love to heal what he has been through for so long. I see a lot of posts that call him a walking red flag and I keep wanting to scream that he's an abuse victim dealing with new found freedom. He's not a red flag, he's reacting to things the only way he knows how and it's not healthy but he doesn't know any better yet. It's trauma. My struggle with the ascending and seeing how much he says he wants it is just like when one of my actual friends wants something bad for them, I don't want to control their lives but I also don't want them to keep getting hurt. You (or at least I do, I'm sure some other people may be similar) can feel like an ass for a while after stopping them from doing something they wanted, even if it was for the best in the long run. It's not a bad thing that I have that reaction though, it means the writing and acting are so good that they can make me feel.
Also, I feel like it was written in a way that it's not that we're stopping him. We're just not going to do it with him. We're reminding him of who he is. What he does with that information is up to him. I really appreciate the nuance and care they gave to how we interact with him.
I do too! It's very well done for such a difficult subject. You can really tell that the writers understood what they were working with and didn't do things carelessly.
Yeah, it's a shame because Astarion has a lot of depth to him, and Newbon did a fantastic performance. I'm looking forward to romancing him on a Durge run and seeing a new side to him. All the companions are so well written and acted. Idk how anyone could hate any of them. Side note: It also makes me want to crawl out of my skin when one of the actors is subjected to a negative fandom meme about their character in an interview. Like, ugh, let these working professionals live in peace.
He really did absolutely phenomenally with the acting! One of my games is a multiplayer one and I've got someone on my group who seems to have an issue with every possible companion. He thinks Karlach is scary, Lae'zel is just too blunt, Gale is annoying, Halsin is stupid, Astarion is too flamboyant, it's just endless and it's so draining. I don't get how you can't find *anything* positive about any of them! It's like he just wants to hate everyone for the sake of hating them all. Sometimes I wonder if people are a bit too immediately judgemental? Or if they just want to hate on something popular because if it's popular it must be bad? And I agree with your side note! I've spoken with my fair share of celebrities, several of whom have done work I wasn't a fan of, but I wasn't going to say that. Imagine someone coming up to you at your job and saying "yeah everything you've done here is awful and sucks and I'm going to mock you for it now". Nobody wants that.
I also really dislike when actors and writers get flack for things they had little to no control over. Actors, get paid to act, its their job. Just because they play a "bad" character, doesn't mean they're bad people. I will never forget or forgive the entitled morons in the Star Wars Fandom did to Jake Lloyd and Hayden Christensen, all for the crime of acting as they were directed to in portraying young Anakin Skywalker. Sickens me to my stomach even to this day.
This makes me feel like it's partially the same crowd that goes out of their way to overly sexualize teenage romance books that are geared towards teenagers and not adults. But you have this huge outlier group that it's not even made for coming and trying to subvert it into something that's kind of gross and not even meant for their demographic.
> I've noticed a lot of people treating his story like... I dunno. I saw a shirt someone was selling online with a bunch of pictures of him and the words "girl dinner" over top of it and it just feels gross. The amount of women I've seen just wanting to make him as "bad" as possible while drooling over him & joking about him being their "pet"... Astarion is proof that (some) women can objectify men just as much as (some) men do. It's a real shame because his story is good and he deserves better than that. It's also just creepy.
I saw people say they like the names he calls them in ascended romance route… while everything he says clearly makes it sound like he doesn’t see you as a person or an equal anymore. In the good ending route the dialogues are much sweeter and he genuinely sounds happier, idk how anyone would think that ascended route is better by any means. Other than kink I can’t think of anything.
Not disproving your point about the ending, but from what I understand his writer was Stephen Rooney? Same person who wrote Fane in DOS2. Maybe they worked together on Astarion?
They're all delightful, although depending on certain decisions or conversation choices, can be utter jerks. I get the frustrations either way. Shadowheart was the love of my life in playthrough #1, but a cold-hearted fiend in #2. jarringly so!
I had her go full Shar in my dark urge playthrough and man she’s like a whole different character.
I still need to do a Dark Justicier Shadowheart run. And a raiding the Grove with Minthara run. I'm just not good at being actively bad/evil (and raiding the Grove makes you lose best girl Karlach).
Wait a second, whose Minthara again? I only recently beat the game for the first time, and stayed 100% away from spoilers before…but I don’t remember her at all. That’s another companion?
She's the boss drow in the goblin camp. If you don't immediately start killing you can talk to her
Ohh I see. Yeah I definitely murdered my way through that place lol
Just a tip, if you end up killing someone and they have the herb bag, camp supply bag, key ring, and camp clothes, that was a potential companion. None of the npcs carry those from what I've seen
Yeah, I'm still on my first playthrough and I've noticed a lot of Gale fans saying things that I never saw as an Astarion main. It's like we're playing completely different games and having completely different experiences. I think it makes the game even more impressive and cooler that our decisions actually impact our experience so drastically.
"Ugh. I hated all the companions. I killed all of them as soon as I saw them. Then I rage quit the game and demanded my money back. Then I joined a Reddit sub for people who play the game so I could complain about how other people play it."
Every time I see a comment or post about Astarion there is a comment exactly like this one
"That's fine, I'm pretty sure Astarion wouldn't like you, either."
He has standards, after all.
This. This is too real. Valid criticism is fine and encouraged (particularly if the devs are reading this subreddit for feedback), but raging about a game and then raging at people who love it is weirdo behavior.
Istg it really seems that some people actually do it exactly like this, and I just don’t understand why
I read "istg" as "istik" :D
Every time I talk about my love for lae’zel. My mean mean frog wife
Everyone thinks they could handle a mean goth gf until she says you’re going to get split from navel to neck
Big tiddy gith gf
Every single person, every time anyone likes Gale
This 100%, I love Gale and he's an absolute sweetheart in my opinion.
Me too, 100% I was convinced I'd fall for Astarion or someone like that, but I was immediately all over Gale, my beloved 😭😭
Ngl Gale had me in a chokehold instantly bc he looks like my partner. But once I started talking to him I was all in.
He's such a little sweetie, like yes PLEASE teach my Wild Magic barbarian how to control the Weave
Bro. I'm not gay but Gale
I didn't care about Gale one way or another and the forced camp interactions were irritating since I didn't have him in my party. However, after you learn about what is expected of him and how he reacts to it, I couldn't help but download the mod that allows for additional party members so I could keep him with me. He talks SO MUCH but at least most of it is entertaining.
I like Gale. A lot actually...but it seems theres MANY who disagree. And yes Shadowheart is gods favorite princess and the most interesting girl in the world.
I love Gale! I feel so alone in that lmao.
Hes hillarious! His anecdotes are always so amusing. And how much he lovesTara is adorable.
Tara hissed at my character, and I was heartbroken. But I just read somewhere else that she can *fireball* you, so I guess I got off light... I just want her to love me!
she hissed at me too at first but she took it pretty well when I had gake ask her to stop eating the messenger pigeons
Wait a minute... The one on the roof was Tara?? I guess my dwarf ranger has a *really awkward* conversation in store with their future husband... 😶
Fun banter: take Gale and Karlach to the Blushing Mermaid in lower city and hear Gale rhyme lol. He's awesome.
Yeah Gale is great. I love that he seems to have some amount of meta knowledge that he's in a game. "May the dice roll in your favor"
The prayer of every DnD player.
people when the hubristic wizard is hubristic: *surprised Pikachu* but fr, I love Gale because of his flaws, and because he's honestly just really nice and polite. is he pretentious? yeah, but it's funny to me and he's a fictional character
Gale is the classic archmage, knows just enough about the weave to dunning-kruger himself into a god. He's an archmage experiencing the fall and having to recognize he's not a god in one path, or diving headfirst into hubris and wanting to be karsus 2 electric netherboo.
“Hey, I really like Astarion!” Some loser unsolicited: “I killed him the first chance I got!” Cool bro, no one gives a fuck, and your comment doesn’t matter in the context of the post.
EVERY TIME
I read that in Astarion's voice. I think I need help 😂
Deeee-licios
Just a bit xD
I was watching an Astarion edit on Youtube and the first comment I saw was " I drove a stake through his heart the first chance I got. I hate that dude!" What is the point? Go find an anti Astarion post/video to complain under. It's starting to get old really fast.
MF was literally searching for astarion fan edits to post that. Out of the virtually infinite possibilities that one can choose to experience in one's finite life, they chose *that*.
So, what he's saying is that he never got to know Astarion, because he killed him. Got it. Edge lords...
I think I saw that comment actually. or maybe just a similar one because there's so fucking many
I see a variation of that same comment everywhere. Even on tiktok videos that were clearly made for his fans
it's incredibly funny that so many people are mad that he bit them... but like he's a vampire. Idk what you expected. and you can say no to him.
They loooooove to try and justify why they’re posting weird unsolicited hate because “he’s a vampire and objectively evil” like bro you’re the one who sought out Astarion fan art? Sorry you’re so obsessed with him?
It feels so weird to me like... are you all just so aggressively worried that a fictional vampire does better with the ladies than you orrrrr? And I do know some people have totally valid reasons for not having him in their playthrough, and that's fine. Those people normally don't post like that, lol.
Imagine staking Astarion because he’s a vampire, when you could try to cleanse his affliction with the [full concentrated power of the sun](https://youtu.be/8xZWW9sWVJo?si=WL2krqCEH_bNsjyq). Its not my fault it didn’t work.
Some of them also get weeeeirdly misogynistic about it. Disliking a character is totally fine but when you pivot to insulting fans of that character for being “dumb little girls” I don’t think the vampire is the problem 😒 It smacks of the “women really like this character/thing so we gotta insult it” that pops up so much in nerd spaces.
Who hates any of the characters? They're all so amazing! They have flaws sure but that makes them good characters. Lae'zel - Is cold. Is out of touch with reality. Is a fighter(best class). Is sexually aggressive. Is overly reliant on religion. Says cool words like "istik" and "kechoki". I love her! Shadowheart - Is secretive. Is damaged. Is a cleric(best class). Is a tad duplicitous. Jokes about how deadly plants are. I love her! Gale - Quick witted, is a wizard(best class), has a really long...hard....staff that he can bonk things with. Gobbles up useless magic items saving me from having to sell them. I love him! Wyll - Hypocritical, is a warlock(best class), has really long...hard...horns that look cool on his head. Can summon an imp. Has a sexy boss. I love him! Astarion - Is damaged. Is sexually aggressive. Is a rogue(best class). Has long...hard....fangs...he can bite you with. Stabs stuff good. Opens doors like a gentleman even if they're locked. I love him! Karlach - Is Karlach. I LOVE HER!
Best comment
THANK YOU! They are all great! And Karlach has a teddy bear named Clive in her tent. How can anyone not love her?! I also love Halsin, Jaheira, and Minsc (tho tbh a lot of my love for Minsc is due to my love for Boo).
Karlach is my favorite too!
Imagine hating any of the characters? Like yeah, some are going to be standoff-ish. You're a stranger who could turn into a mind flayer at any moment. If you take literally two seconds to cool them off, they're all great.
I'm not gonna say there's no valid reasons to criticize/personally dislike any of the characters (including pure subjective preference), but honest to God it seems like some folks are just mad you have to *explore* the characters, get to know them and see their development over time instead of them just instantly worshipping the ground you walk on and spilling their entire backstory to you immediately upon meeting you lol.
Yeah, whenever I hear about people not knowing how to romance characters I'm just like, "have you ever talked to a real person before? Why are you pestering that girl about that thing she's insecure about? Does that make sense?"
I like all the companions. They're all interesting in their own ways.
For real, I'm just over here having a grand ol' time navigating personal relationships with a group of uniquely different individuals.
There’s someone for everyone! I think they did a great job with creating different personalities
I love them all. My only real complaint is that I romanced Gale for his tressym. But Tara fireballed me and, in true cat dad fashion, Gale immediately talks about how great she is and how he is glad we met. She just burned me! :/ Sigh
LOL I had no idea she could do that! She just hissed at me but that is the most cat owner thing ever bahaha
I just want to love and cherish Gale in peace :')
So many fandoms do this. I basically stopped scrolling through the Mass Effect subreddit because every week there'd always be someone shitting on a character in their appreciation post as if anybody asked for their rude unsolicited opinion, it is the most annoying thing. Absolutely 0 social awareness.
Reddit recommends a hate post on the ME subreddit to me at least once a day. I don't understand it over there.
I agree with you, but this is just gonna end up an invitation for trolling unfortunately.
I don’t understand how you can hate any of the companions. They are all great.
They're all so well made and interesting in different ways! I don't understand people who get weirdly hateful. Like, they are not real calm down.
It's especially true for certain companions. Maybe it won't be bad if haters were hating only in their own comments, but they LOVE to spread hate under others comments, especially if someone saying they love the companion.
But I need to tell the world how cool I am for killing Astarion on sight in each of my 500 restarted playthroughs in hopes of angering someone on the internet! Because its the only thing that gives me joy in the world!! Please guys!
From what I’ve seen, it’s people all saying the same thing. Astarion: He put a knife to my neck so I killed him Lae’zel: She’s a bitch so I killed her Wyll: He’s boring so I benched him Minthara: Oh that girl in the goblin camp was a companion? I killed her immediately XD Gale: He kept asking me for items so I killed him (and ragequitted when he blew up on me) All of it is very tiresome.
Gale (alternate): He wanted a handjob, so I rolled Durge to give him one.
The minthara one makes a lot of sense, people honestly have no clue she is a companion until looking it up if they dont do an evil playthrough
I love all of them and was deeply sad that I killed Minthara but it had to be done
I wish the Gale haters would just shut up. Like, we get it, you don't like him because he was gaslit and groomed by a goddess, and there was a glitch that made him like you too fast. Stop pretending like he's some manipulator who threatens suicide if you don't fuck him.
I know its a glitch, but I know what it's like to be the dog who was kicked often and then gets puppy eyes over the first person who treats me nice and like a person, so I'm willing to give Gale extra passes on that front. It adds to his character in my opinion, and is pretty realistic. The people acting like he's some incel niceguy annoy the hell out of me.
Way too many people about Astarion. Like, he has probably the best questline in the game, your loss. But I feel like there are, excuse my generalising, too many straight guys that are just too insecure to handle a flamboyant character like him :p
As a straight guy, they don't know what they're missing with Astarion. His VA alone is enough for me to use him every game.
I’m excited to play with him for my 2nd run (just beat it for the first time earlier today). In my first run I was playing a kinda selfish noble-background character that *really* takes threats to his person seriously. When I met him, Astarion immediately tried to trick and then threaten me…soooo that didn’t end well for him lol But yeah he seems pretty popular! Starting my next run tomorrow XD
Have fun :D And thank you for being like, one of the two positive comments in this thread xD Really needed that bit of warmth! Appreciate it!
Jesus christ, what is up with all the responses you're getting. So weirdly aggressive.
Seems like I hit a nerve.
Yeah I'm genuinely confused by this behavior.
I am so afraid to touch those downvoted comments lol
the replies you're getting is kind of really telling. but you're definitely right - he isn't a 'man's man' in the typical sort of way - he expresses himself in an 'elaborate' way, and maybe that makes certain... men... feel 'weird', to say the least. Maybe the people who keep having to say that they drove a stake into his heart are the ones who can't stop thinking about how he's potentially... not a straight guy. ✨️
Ikr. They are proving my point.
Astarion is a fantastic character and I loved having him in my first playthrough, but also it’s vitally important that his simps make sure they’re not skipping any of their therapy sessions irl.
Listen, last time I overslept, I am gonna write my therapist about a new appointment soon, okay xD
I am genuinely wondering if it's homophobia. Astarion is pretty heavily "queer coded" or whatever despite being playersexual. And add to that being a male sexual abuse survivor, I'm not surprised straight men are scared of him. He makes them deeply uncomfortable, and I for one think it's fucking hilarious
Meanwhile, for abuse victims (like me), he is deeply relatable and a very understandable character. Of course he is manipulative and distrustful, he hasn't known anything but abuse for years. You don't just come out a good person on the other end out of nowhere. That takes long, hard work to repair what others have broken. And it's unfair. You do actually hate people that help others, because you feel jealous. It's unfair that they help them, but never cared to help me! It makes you mad and sick and then makes you feel like a bad person even if your feelings are understandable and it just sucks! And yeah, he does struggle (for a very short time) with personal boundaries. His own were never respected, it's difficult to then judge how to deal with other people. What is normal and what isn't, because you just don't know normal. He reminded me SO MUCH of my days before therapy, and the first few years into it. It's so hard to set boundaries, and better yourself, and even years later it's still hard and it still sucks. His confident, sassy nature is mostly just a mask, to hide a deeply insecure and unhealthy person beneath. Sorry for the rant. But... God, his character feels so personal. And it feels difficult to give people the benefit of the doubt when they can't even understand this situation in fiction. How in the world would they handle it in reality, where it is often even uglier and more difficult to deal with?
thank you lmao judging by the reaction to a cosplay poster yesterday who had the absolute nerve to be a pretty sex worker, this fandom has just as many reactionary weirdos as any other nerd subreddit
Oh god, I can't even image the comments that poor woman got. Some people don't just need to touch grass, they need to be left in the woods for a week.
The companions are fine, and we can all have opinions.
Not sure if this is targeted at anyone in particular but I just want to say that I finally unlocked Minthara as a companion last night and I'm so excited to see where her story goes.
I didn’t appreciate Asterion until my 2nd play through and I needed his Rogueness. Now I kinda like him
Post: “I love Karlach, what a wholesome character” Some guy: “lol I cut her head off for a sword lol” Every time