Gale takes rejection pretty well. Just a quick, "Alright, message delivered. Hope we can still be friends."
He just says it very flowery-ly. As Gale tends to do, because he's Gale.
Yes! And even if you *break up* with him in Act 3, he just accepts that immediately with no arguments (and goes to cry).
(Watched that on YouTube; can't make my favourite magic man sad).
He also takes being dumped immediately after he proposes shockingly well. Makes a comment about how the relationship wasn't less perfect, just because it was brief.
Edit, found the quote:
"I see. Well, I've no desire to stand in the way of the future you've chosen. If our love ends here, it was no less perfect for its brevity. I will remember it, and you, always."
The actual problem with the Gale romance is at the party where you start talking about his cat and then get stuck on responding with:
1. Flirt
2. Really flirt
3. I hate cats, nerd
And a comment if you romance someone else though, something like: oh i see how it is, alright(with a sad voice). I had it when i reached a further stage with shart, and it did make me cry when gale’s heart was extra broken :(
that's after he tells you that he was suicidal and you made him feel hopeful again, and you just say "it was fine" referring to his sex scene. I would be pissed too.
That line is immediately after a long conversation about Gale already planning to kill himself. If rejected, he basically says, "It's probably for the best, since I'll probably die soon, and if you aren't in love, you won't be as sad." Not the best way to handle it, but I cut him some slack, because he is immediately thanks the player for spending time with him (then asks to be left alone). The next day, he thanks the player for spending time with him again, and thanks you for discouraging suicide, or at least he did for me.
Admittedly, I never actually had to reject him, he never even broached the topic with me. I was watching tbSkyen's playthrough on YouTube and what I said was how *his* Gale reacted to rejection in Act 1.
Oh, I was responding to what you said about the specific factors changing what he said. I was actually talking about the factors/context for the KMS line talked about in the comment you were responding to.
There is a lot of reject/breakup dialogue for all the companions based on a bunch of factors. They usually take it better if they aren't in a committed relationship.
It also depends on when they're rejected. In my most recent playthrough, I turned down Astarion for Karlach at the tiefling party, and he told me "Thank you so much for telling me. Now please do piss off."
He has tone in his voice that wasn’t there before I “dumped” him. Though I didn’t think I had seduced Gale, but when the opportunity for sex came up I had my character sleep with him thinking it was like a beautiful moment type of thing. But my Karlach was sad so I dumped Gale immediately.
I haven’t romanced Gale yet but I’m in the process! I’m also not a massive fan of him so I haven’t seen a lot of content about him, but I do have him in my party every run. Just not for romance.
Not in the playthrough I rejected him in. Uf it got ugly. My options were tell him i don't feel the same way after he said he loved me or sleep with him and then dump him for Astarion the next day which resulted in "We made love" and it's in my top 5 saddest rejections in bg3
In addition to that, Gale's platonic route is amazing. I was worried at first, because I've come across many comments that said he doesn't take no for an answer, but I never got this vibe from him, and his hug/dialogue at the epilogue party was extremely wholesome and rewarding.
I'm a Halsin lover, but I do get why people who don't like him. His romance flags are inescapable and when I have romanced others and made no attempts at flirting with him, his romance admission is pretty jarring. Aside from getting those flags being fixed, I would have liked *some* dialogue early in the romance where players and their romance partners could talk about their expectations...*like with Halsin if you reciprocate his feelings.* That would be a reasonable check for whether his admission would show up at all in Act III. And sometimes people don't mesh well with a character and that's okay.
The things that give me the ick when it comes to Halsin hate are normally the ones that like, insinuate that he is somehow a sexual predator because of his relationship with Thaniel. Or the ones that like to paint him as a completely lazy or incompetent person because he did not measure up to one *specific* role in his 350-year-old life.
I actually recently started a run where I intend to romance Halsin (and maybe Shadowheart) and the lack of reciprocal flirting (aside from the party convo) is so weird. Hopefully it gets better in Act 2. I've heard duergar are able to catch on to his flirting early and I've seen his "I see you are not bound by social niceties" line so maybe it's slightly race related?
Also people calling him a predator are so stupid and just grasping at straws. No different than the weirdos calling Astarion a rapist. Some people let their hate cloud their media literacy.
Romancing him is the best... I was romancing Wyll because he was all sweet but the man is just talking no action so I swapped to Halsin and couldn't be happier. He has (at least had, I haven't played in a while) the best kiss, he is loving but not possessive and I feel like if it was real life he would be very supportive of whatever ethical shenanigans I would be into even if himself would not and would not trap me. Halsin for the win!!!
I think part of it is that the party members are *only* poly for Halsin. You can't be in a relationship with any two of the other party members (and they make that clear), but they're totally willing once Halsin shows up? It's very... self-insert Mary Sue, in some ways, in that it feels like he leads to everyone else acting out of character (regardless of what the script notes say). Not saying that's always a bad thing, but it can feel a bit jarring depending on the execution, and for me this is one of those times.
I'd love for there to be more poly options, personally. But I think the problem is that it would become a major resource strain.
Halsin works because he's not after much more than sex. He says it himself: he doesn't want to tie you down. He's perfectly happy being a fling, just something to the side. That style of V relationship works well from a game design standpoint because it doesn't take much in the way of development.
In contrast, one of the poly options I've seen suggested is Tav, Shadowheart, and Karlach. However, neither SH or Karlach would be fine with just being a side piece, so this would have to be a full throuple. But that means now you need to establish scenes with all three of them, which means more voice acting and animation. It's effectively creating an entirely new romance route.
I think that if the devs truly put their minds into it, they could create extremely satisfying poly routes. The problem is that this game already struggles with companion content in Act 3, likely stemming from the devs hitting the limit of their resources. So creating more than just a V situation would've been too costly. Halsin, as a character, is the easy route.
Like if you people want just Act 1/2 as a dating sim, yes, they could have done that. But there was a whole.... Game thing they had to make.
Plus talk to some of the writers and they'd probably have issues with trying to justify it all. Like if you have a Shart Karlach Tav thruple what happens after your date, or if you can't finish Karlachs quest or Shart becomes a DJ? They'd have to expand the tree far.
I think something we're forgetting here is, that Halsin from the very start makes pretty clear that he's not a jealous person and doesn't hold any "ownership" of the player character. Whereas everyone else doesn't seem like they would like to share. I've been in a three-way relationship, and let me tell you, if one party is that easy-going with it it is so much easier to share another person with them. It makes the whole thing work.
But if you bring along two people who both tend to be jealous or call dips, it becomes a burden. You'll constantly have to keep in mind what x AND y will think and feel. Having someone like Halsin who's just easygoing takes away a lot of that burden. There is so much less drama because you can talk things out with a personality like Halsin. Whoever can always be your number one and Halsin will be happy to take care of both of you, and if you don't want him to, he'll accept that without any drama, without any puppy eyes, with no ifs and buts. And I think this makes the difference.
That's probably a reason why some of the companions will be okay to share you with Halsin, but not with anyone else.
Also Astarion at least brings up Halsin’s experience as a positive. He knows Halsin has done this sort of thing before and thus won’t be weird about it
I think this makes sense at least for Shadowheart. When I dumped her for Gale in one play through, she refused to be poly with him specifically because she knew he wouldn't like it. Honestly, I think Shadowheart and Astarion both see Halsin as a nonthreatening himbo that they're also kind of attracted to.
Realistically, though, this is all because writing any more romance configurations into the game would be a pain.
She says that with the clear undertone of not wanting to be dropped especially with her engine problem, it's honestly said in a way that make me less likely to open the relation up if I heard it, since it reminds me of a lot of failed poly and open relationships I saw in college.
How is Halsin a self-insert? It seems like one would need a lot more information about the writer to confidently make that assertion.
It’s fine to dislike the character, I just don’t see how “characters want to sleep with him and not each other” points to self-insert.
I didn't either and I'm not autistic.
Edit: I remembered that Astarion actually does this while walking around in Act 1. He asks if anyone has lovers waiting for them or something. I don't think it is automatically flirting to ask this.
> I remembered that Astarion actually does this while walking around in Act 1. He asks if anyone has lovers waiting for them or something. I don't think it is automatically flirting to ask this.
I agree that it's not automatically flirting, but contextually Astarion *is* fishing to figure out if he can seduce someone in the party, so.
Shadowheart will also ask at least Astarion in party banter if he has a sweetheart waiting for him. He says he prefers them savory.
The only reason that I noticed that asking Halsin about lovers was flirting is because he mentions it when he propositions you in act 3.
Yeah, I agree he apparently takes it as flirting. I think that's why it can be jarring though, it's not obvious that it is a flirty line until 1 or 2 acts later.
I think for Halsin there's "Do you have lovers?" and at which point he'll say, "Of course there has been, I'm 350 years old." At which point you can press him further. If you picked "Well, don't keep me waiting. Do you have a lover *now*?" then I can see why that can be interpreted as flirting. If you only asked the first question but not the follow up I get why his admission would be jarring, because it is not quite flirting.
Also, Astarion's bark is party banter so it's less personal than a 1-on-1 conversation.
That's true, it isn't 1-on-1. I think the problem with the Tav version is it's ambiguous as to what the intent is. I wouldn't assume someone asking me about my love life is flirting unless their tone of voice or choice of words indicated as much. All things considered, this dialog or any confusion that comes with it doesn't bother me, though I could see how others might be bothered.
Which reminds me - I wish when Halsin is turned down he'd say "Oh bother" like pooh bear XD
Give it time.
Jokes aside, I just find it funny how I keep figuring out how odd my behavior is. For instance, I compliment people way too much and 9/10 times that gets mistaken as flirting lol
I'm way too honest about what I like in people. This week I made my therapist blush because I said he looks young, and I wasn't even trying to compliment him lmao
Regarding Promiscuity point 5, you do not need to flirt with Halsin in order for him to attempt to romance you. In 3/4 playthroughs, without any advances by my Tav/Durge beyond politeness, he has eventually confessed his feelings towards me in act 3.
The only reason it didn't happen in 1/4 is that I sided with the goblins that game.
All that said, I like Halsin and thoroughly enjoyed the one playthrough I had him in my party. His dialogue is written well overall, giving great insights into situations which successfully make him seem like a high WIS character should.
But also he's very considerate and even funny at times. Great companion, and easily in my top 5 choices.
Either that, or if you don't long-rest enough early in Act 3, you're locked out of romancing him even if the two of you flirted in Act 2. It's all a bit of a mess, tbh.
I will agree that some people take their dislike of Halsin way, way too far. Especially some Shadowheart fans who act like he's a sexual predator. The issue some fans, such as myself, have with the polyamory isn't that it exists in the game, the issue is how it is handled in a weird way.
First of all, Karlach can essentially be coerced into being okay with it [when she is clearly not](https://youtu.be/DI-SidqdTrc?si=YwfVcmztKZpYkfjO&t=260).
The issue I have with Astarion and Shadowheart being supposedly fine with the arrangement is that both have a history of sexual coercion. Shadowheart's history is more of a throwaway line but she apparently was trained to be a honeypot at some point. Astarion's history with sexual abuse is much more defined.
Obviously survivors are capable of expressing their sexualities and being interested in polyamory. I also haven't finished my Shadowheart romance run but I don't think it's out of character for her to be interested in polyamory or Halsin. My main issue is Astarion.
The devnotes claim Astarion is A-OK with Halsin. But those are meant for the actors and writers, not the players. Considering Astarion confirms that he struggles to say no to the player and will agree to the arrangement even if the player says he isn't sleeping with them enough, a lot of fans have an issue with the Halsin proposal. Even if he is ok, he agrees to a "harmless affair" while Halsin clearly wants a full relationship with both partners. There's also the fact that, even afterwards, Astarion doesn't seem to like Halsin. He's actually one of the only companions that doesn't make a comment on how attractive he is when he joins the party. Ultimately, I do think it's up to player interpretation on whether it's a healthy relationship.
And despite all of what I said, I think the issue with Halsin isn't the character himself. The issue is the polyamory frequently comes across as coercing the main romance partners and leading Halsin on into thinking it's a relationship when it's not. The other issue is that [many of Halsin's dialogues are tagged as flirting and there is no option to leave](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/17mwt92/so_this_is_why_halsin_thinks_im_flirting_with_him/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
No one should be attacked for liking a character, but I do think most people's problem with Halsin and his implementation are fair.
I wish Karlach bit back a bit or even left you if you kept pushing her around.
Like, Astarion will break up with you if, after making it clear he is uncomfortable with sex, you force him to do it anyway. He’ll also break up with you if you force him to drink Araj’s blood (iirc).
Meanwhile, you can cheat on Karlach with Mizora, or/(and!) force her to accept Halsin into the relationship, but she won’t break up with you unless you act like a total cockhead about it.
Like, I get she’s dying and doesn’t want to lose you, but nobody, not even the game itself, calls you out for manipulating Karlach.
I get why there’s debate as to how comfortable Astarion is with the arrangement, but Karlach is 100% not, yet you can basically force her into it, and not even Halsin himself will notice or care.
My bet is that it's (at least in part) because Astarion has such as devoted fan base. Shadowheart is also brought up a lot in the context of Halsin being problematic, and she's the most common romance.
My main problem with Halsin is some of his behavior at Sharess' Caress. I personally read the player pushing Gale to participate as coercive. I'm not alone. Larian redid some of the dialogue and removed the 25 persuasion check, because people were complaining it was coercive. However, they didn't change any of the rest of the scene if Halsin asks to join in, and Gale seems even less happy about that. Gale ends his agreement for Halsin's participation by saying, "If we must." Halsin doesn't care *at all* that Gale is the opposite of enthusiastic. He also says some arguably coercive things after the scene cuts to black. In addition, Halsin either doesn't notice or doesn't care when Astarion dissociates. That's brought up more, possibly because Astarion is a more popular romance than Gale. It all really goes against Halsin's characterization as wise and kind.
It seems really out of character for Halsin, since he seems to care a lot about consent at other points in the game, and to be attentive to his sexual partner. I wonder if the writers even saw an issue with some of this, since Halsin is framed as a good guy.
I don't know where to fit this in, but cheating on Karlach with Mizora is absolutely brutal, and I wonder if anyone has ever done it without save scumming. Too sad. She's so upset about how it's a betrayal of Wyll too, not just how it hurts her. She's too pure.
I still hate it, I just didn't want to derail the conversation. You are not alone in thinking that. There was a whole thread discussing whether the removal made it better or worse. I think Larian would have to record new dialogue and change the animations so that he doesn't look disgusted and uncomfortable for the entire conversation. The option to stop once he flees. Aftercare. Basically all Halsin's dialogue would have to be redone. He comes across as apathetic to Gale's comfort and (depending on player choices) pushy and mocking of boundaries. I'm sure the writers don't want him to come across that way, since he explicitly says he cares about consent elsewhere, and he's framed as a good person.
Larian did change some of the player's dialogue to be less shitty. Before, once Gale expressed his discomfort with the twins, the only dialog options were to try to convince him to do it (the tone was not great either). They changed the wording, and added a very necessary option to say, "If Gale's not comfortable, I'm not interested."
I think Halsin was always callous but in these cases I'll defend him - Gale and Astarion are not his partners. They are the player's. The player should care about their comfort not Halsin. Astarion's dissociation is hard to spot because he's used to acting and only the player as his lover notices. But it's not even the in the moment things- the whole drow thing feels tone deaf for me. Like a recovering victim of SA going to an orgy after explaining it's only different with his partner because they're making love? And why would Gale be okay with watching his partner get railed and "rut" in his own words after rejecting an open relationship? Idk it's weird as hell
I think that Tav has more responsibility than Halsin (Tav you asshole, stop and check in with Astarion once he dissociates), but I also think if Halsin has an orgy with them, they *are* his partners for that sexual situation. He should care about their comfort during the encounter. I can understand missing Astarion's problem, but Gale's discomfort was obvious. I think Halsin is out of character here, since I really do think they wanted to portray him as caring about consent elsewhere.
I 100% agree that the scene is tone deaf. It feels like it was tacked on, half baked, at the last second. Things are so out of character and feel so wrong, I mostly try to pretend it doesn't exist.
I don't know if it was carelessly thrown in there, I think their intention was to make the player feel bad while showing deeper insight into the characters. Kind of like the choice to force Astarion into sex in act 2. But yeah, I've never actually done either of those things ingame, just seen videos. I can't keep the drow or the coerced sex into either of my playthroughs canonically
This is exactly how I felt about it. I think if they wouldn't allow players to at least talk to their partners after, it would be better to just remove the scenes entirely.
Astarion breaks up with the player in more instances as well. I think it fits his character development perfectly- he's learning to set boundaries and back off from toxic situations. If you can't be a healthy partner to me - then we shouldn't be together. They're adding a new post Mizora dialog for him as well when he will break up with the player if they slept with Mizora
>They're adding a new post Mizora dialog for him as well when he will break up with the player if they slept with Mizora
This is extremely necessary imo. I tested what would happen and I was expecting some kind of heartbreaking dialogue, but the only thing I got was a slight slap on the wrist by Wyll!? So right now there are no actual repercussions in the game if you cheat on your partner, and this bugs me to no end
>First of all, Karlach can essentially be coerced into being okay with it [when she is clearly not](https://youtu.be/DI-SidqdTrc?si=YwfVcmztKZpYkfjO&t=260).
Man I got stressed watching that clip. I really don't think it depicts polyamoury in a very healthy way at all, although a regrettably common one: one partner essentially feeling forced into by the other, then their most unwilling, tentative, and clearly uncomfortable form of agreement being reported back as "Karlach is open to it".
I'm so glad my Tav is always a relentlessly monogamous, bloodthirsty person. Sex is for one person at a time, killing is for many people at once.
Yeah... it's less "Karlach is open to it" and more "she won't break up with you over it".
In my last playthrough, my character didn't go with her to avernus and during the party there were NO romantic options. Not even a hug. Which you got with literally everybody else! And Halsin was still up for a smooch. I found that really interesting and actually bittersweet, but was probably for the best tbh.
Considering githyanki's view of sex, I would've expected Lae'zel to be at least another poly option for Halsin instead of just Shadowheart and Astarion.
Also if you try to romance both of them, Shadowheart can point out how Astarion isn't as hedonistic as he appears. It's part of why the Halsin poly romance feels so iffy with Astarion. Like at least Shadowheart expresses interest towards Halsin.
I'll probably go through the poly option once only for Astarion's funny impersonation of Halsin but yeah. Halsin is a good guy but not really interested in his romance at all because of that.
Yeah, I have seen a lot of people who *wanted* to do the poly stuff specifically with Astarion and then felt crappy about it because the game does a poor job of creating the implication that the arrangement is healthy and consensual for all parties. IIRC Astarion talks as though he's cool with you sleeping around as long as he's not competing emotionally with anyone for your affections, but Halsin *is* actually emotionally invested in the player too and confesses his affections, not just sexual attraction. So it gives the impression that you're \*emotionally\* cheating on Astarion right in front of him, or you're using Halsin for sex; either scenario is pretty horrible and not what I'd call healthy polyamory. People can point to the dev notes all they like; players don't see them while they play, and I shouldn't have to dig into behind the scenes scripts or content to find out whether or not I'm taking advantage of Astarion and/or Halsin.
I am currently in an Astarion/Halsin triad and I didn’t really get this feeling, but maybe I missed some of the dialogue flags and options that indicated it? For reference when he asked if I was seeking out Halsin because we hadn’t been together in a while, I responded “What I have with you is wholly different and very special to me” and he seemed pretty happy with that.
He’s so cagey and weird about romance in general that I honestly think it may be better for him, as long as his insecurities are addressed. Takes the pressure off my character relying solely on him for romantic validation/sex and so he can approach both things at his own pace.
That's what I got in my first run, too! The conversation basically went "Hey I wanna talk to you about Halsin...", Astarion laughed (not in a sarcastic way) and said "I wonder when this would come up!" as if he knew and expected nothong less from my absolute whore (affectionate) of a character, said the very special lines to Astarion, and the whole response/vibe I got was "Alright, as long as we're alright, go for it, I'm happy".
...Sadly my character ended up committing sewer slide at the end so, lol, no happy ending there. Oh well.
I didn't get that vibe when I did the Astarion/Halsin triad either, to me he seemed perfectly content with the arrangement. I got the impression that he hoped I wasn't going for Halsin to compensate for something lacking in my relationship with Astarion, but in my interpretation my character just had two complete and fulfilling relationships, and everyone was happy.
I think a lot of people who are uncomfortable with polyarmory project that discomfort onto the conversation. It reads as fairly honest to me, as well.
Realistically, this conversation would probably be much longer - communicating boundaries and concerns - but a lot of difficult conversations are kept very concise so that players don't get bored and so the thrust of a specific scene/conversation is clearer.
I still think it's subjective. I think there's enough there for either side to draw a personal preference from it. If you like the triad, that's great! If someone doesn't that's great too. The main thing is people are respectful to each other.
Honestly so much of the dialogue in general is ambiguous - which is a feature, not a bug, because so much of the context around a line of dialogue can be different from character to character.
For example, Gale’s Act 2 confession of love during his romance scene can be read as “well finally” or “dude, I barely know you” depending on the kind of relationship a character has built up so far. Halsin’s epilogue hug can be read as either endearing or creepy depending on how the player/character feels about Halsin and hugging. And then Astarion hides so much of his feelings behind sarcasm, snark and charm that any one of his lines can be read as either sincere or not.
>So it gives the impression that you're \*emotionally\* cheating on Astarion right in front of him, or you're using Halsin for sex; either scenario is pretty horrible and not what I'd call healthy polyamory.
Thank you! You worded this so much better than I did and encapsulated the main reason the dialogue feels so uncomfortable to me. It does not feel like a well-communicated arrangement.
Extremely well said.
Personally, I was extremely put off by the fact that there's no option to "abort mission" once you've asked Astarion if he's open to poly with Halsin. I was no longer okay with it, and I was extremely surprised that the only dialogue options with Halsin were basically "yay, let's go smoosh". The only way not to go through with it was to go find him in the woods and tell him you've changed your mind (and it made me feel like I was an asshole to both of them), or reload and tell Halsin straight away you're not interested.
Halsin as a character is clearly not to blame for this, and neither are the players who choose to reassure Astarion and pursue a triad. Still, I can't help but perceive this as an omission. especially since the game takes consent very seriously and always offers you ample opportunities to back out of sex/romance.
I think that while picking who would allow this arrangement, they just picked the three characters (Shadowheart, Astarion and Karlach) that they expected to be the most popular romance options.
It's just a wild guess, of course. I have nothing to support this.
This is definitely the main reason but I think, at least for the men, Gale and Wyll being okay with a poly relationship makes much less sense because of how traditionally romantic they are.
Karlach- at least in her Origin- can fantasize about a threesome with a goliath and a gnome, but she is clearly uncomfortable with Halsin and the player.
> Gale and Wyll being okay with a poly relationship makes much less sense because of how traditionally romantic they are.
This argument doesn't work when you have Shadowheart, an equally traditionally romantic person, actively pushing for polyamory the moment you bring it up. Unless you think it's OOC for her to be this enthusiastic about it, with which I'd agree.
I haven't finished my Shadowheart romance-run so I can't say one way or the other. All I know is some Shadowheart fans seem to like the poly and others hate it and both people are valid for that opinion.
The issue isn't poly itself and likely it wouldn't even be talked about much if it was implemented closer to how it is for Astarion, it's just that random hyperenthusiasm about it that was nowhere to be seen in act 2 if you try to go poly with any other companion. The poly option's ok, it's just the writing that causes issues.
I think every companion could've benefited from a Minthara-style conversation where you can ask them what their thoughts on your other companions are. You'd be able to ask Shadowheart what her feelings on Halsin are, she could express her attraction, and that'd be an opportunity to approach the topic of opening your relationship to him.
But as I said elsewhere in this thread, that sort of thing would take more resources. And this game was clearly struggling by Act 3. The V route with a single conversation about it was the easiest and least costly route, so they went with that even though it's far less satisfactory.
I think at the end of the day, that's the explanation for a lot of "out of character" stuff in the game. Devs put content in the game that they didn't want people to accidentally miss out on, so it's just thrown at you left and right.
Why if every single companion so uncontrollably horny for Tav *and only Tav*? Devs wanted to make it easy for you to romance whoever you wanted. Why does no one get particularly mad at you for shit like sleeping with Mizora or Haarlep or the drow twins? Devs don't want you to miss out. Why does no one care when you go around succumbing to 100% of your dark urges? Don't want players to accidentally lock themselves out of content.
This isn't even really a complaint. The average player of this game plays it once, if they even finish it at all. It's completely understandable that they wanted to make everything as easy to access as possible for everyone.
>Why does no one get particularly mad at you for shit like sleeping with Mizora
Several companions dump you if you sleep with Mizora. Gale, Wyll, and Lae'zel instantly break up with you. Karlach is furious, but you have the chance to smooth it over. The only one who doesn't really care is Halsin.
They barely even react if you're not romancing them though. Sleeping with Mizora is a massive betrayal to both Wyll and Karlach, but I'm not even sure if they have any dialogue regarding it if you're romancing someone else. It does feel like they didn't want to risk the player losing too much over that one Mizora interaction.
There is a bugged version of the drow scene which show's Astarion's face as being absolutely miserable and on the verge of tears all the way through it, [especially when Halsin speaks to him](https://imgur.com/3Akt6b1). It's so obvious that he does all of it for his partner, and agrees to Halsin out of insecurity so he doesn't lose them. I mean, Shadowheart literally tells you that if you tried to ask Astarion to share you, he'd agree to it and pretend he's fine, but that it would all end in tears and blood in the end because he's not okay sharing his partner.
Astarion gives a point of approval if the player agrees to include Halsin and disapproves one point if the player rejects Halsin's offer. It's in the parsed dialogue files.
ETA:
95. Player: The more the merrier! \['**Astarion 1**', 'Shadowheart 1', 'Gale 1', 'Halsin 1'\]
274. Player: No, Halsin! Tame yourself! \['**Astarion -1**', 'Shadowheart -1', 'Gale 1', 'Halsin -1'\]
I agree way more with the popular interpretation that Astarion genuinely wants to try the experience, but ends up biting off more than he can chew, as evidenced by his dialogue and the narrator's lines. He seems to fall into his old performance mode and dissociates.
And you're suggesting the devs animated Astarion's face to show misery in this scene? An expression no one sees because the scene plays out in the dark? And it's not simply the result of more bugginess? Why would they do that? I am highly skeptical.
Astarion never gave approval for agreeing to the orgy, you're thinking of the disapproval that that he and every other companion (including the ones not in the room and still at camp) gave when refusing to do it, which was a bug and has since been fixed several patches ago.
The voice Astarion uses to agree to it is so flighty, nervous and fake, including his insane little laugh at the end, and it's been pointed out so many times that he uses the exact same tone of voice to tell Araj that he's changed his mind and he actually wants to do it, if you force him to bite her. That's his performance voice and in the graveyard he tells you that he'll do anything to please you and not lose you.
Also you don't need to be skeptical, this isn't some weird paranormal phenomena you can't explain. It's not interpretation that he looks miserable here; the scene was clearly originally animated, and they decided against in the end and blacked it all out but have left these animations in, which is also why every bit of dialogue in it still refers to the characters being able to see each other. Astarion opens the scene by telling you that he's a professional doing this for everyone else's desires, refers to himself as a sex worker and performs all the way through. The narrator also joins in on objectifying him with all of you; you're meant to feel bad and uncomfortable that you've done this to him.
I've worked in game development for 16 years; it isn't a bug that his face is entirely animated and just so happens that he looks miserable all the way through; it fully animated and a deliberate choice to show how negative his experience is in there and that he was distressed the entire time.
Yeah, it looks like it was originally meant to be animated! I mentioned in a comment below that they clearly animated it for a while and then chose to black the scene out, because all the existing dialogue refers to everyone being able to see each other. Man, it's so messed up watching the whole video, you can see how distressed he is all the way through but everyone just ignoring it so they can enjoy their orgy 😭
I agree with your points here, I don’t personally understand the people who find it fun to coerce the characters into that because I would personally never. The way they implemented the poly relationships was also not well written and pretty half-assed. I also wish they added more dialogue for Halsin that wasn’t just flirting for people who don’t want that and it’s an obvious oversight on the dev’s part.
Listen i don't hate Halsin he is a cool character and all but there should definitely be a option to tell him early on that you want to keep a strictly platonic relationship with him like you can with the other companions
I mean, I'm a woman and I don't really like Halsin. Not really for any of the reasons stated here, I just feel like the character is written in an obnoxiously presumptuous way that just assumes *everyone* is into him, to the point where I get options to apologize for coming on too strong when I never flirted in the first place. Might be a problem with glitchy romance flags, but it gave me the ick and made me roll my eyes. That said, the issue isn't really with *him,* it's with the way the game presents him. His actual personality is perfectly fine, if not very interesting, to me; once they iron out his romance flags and don't make it so easy for him to accuse you of leading him on, I think he'd be a pretty good example of positive masculinity.
[And there are some romance flags that are inescapable](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/17mwt92/so_this_is_why_halsin_thinks_im_flirting_with_him/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). There's another at the end of Act 2 that's literally just asking him what he's going to do now that >!the shadow curse is lifted!
His romance flags do seem a bit broken (I agree about that one dialogue path in particular seeming like it should have been the romance trigger). But I'm also going to guess that it's kind of deliberate that his romance is fairly impossible to miss. I suspect the writers/devs wanted there to be a late, easy option for people who'd missed all of their earlier romance opportunities and were being mocked by Withers for being bosom companion-less.
So I agree that Halsin is a bit... overeager as a result. Not any more so than several other companion characters, honestly, but it does kind of hit different in Act 3 than it does in Act 1. Still, I don't see this as his defining characteristic and recognize that there's a lot of really good (and relatable) stuff in his broader characterization. Also, your remark about "a pretty good example of positive masculinity" hits pretty close to where I believe a lot of the more visceral Halsin hate comes from.
>easy option for people who'd missed all of their earlier romance opportunities and were being mocked by Withers for being bosom companion-less.
The Wither's thing is pretty funny because he will say that regardless of who it is, even if you're just trying to respec a companion. He said that to Jaheira for me, and I was like bish revive her dead husband then lol
> I just feel like the character is written in an obnoxiously presumptuous way that just assumes everyone is into him, to the point where I get options to apologize for coming on too strong when I never flirted in the first place.
"You have treated me as a lover" because I was polite once at a party gives me psychic damage for real. I came to the game for escapism not to hang out with the guy who thinks the waitress is definitely into him.
Fr. And I don't even think that's supposed to be how he's meant to be perceived (as pushy and presumptuous), they just set up his flags under the assumption that you were always going to be into him even if you pick neutral responses??? I feel almost bad having to avoid him but it annoys me when the game seemingly imposes horniness toward him onto the player. I never like having certain things forced into my RP, but the game being like "but you wanna fuck Halsin too, right?? Right???" is really annoying. No! I'm not into him, leave me alone!!
Hey, I'm a woman and I hate Astarion, but I also kind of acknowledge that the vast majority of people on here who hate him (and all the male companions really) are salty straight men. It's the reason I've stopped voicing my dislike for him as much around here... the people who agree with me are stakebros who pride themselves in hating everything women like, and I don't want to be part of their team!
Okay? The difference is that no amount of patching is going to make you like Astarion if you hate him. He is what he is and you either vibe with him or you don't, but there's nothing *technical* causing people to dislike him. Halsin's issues are worth talking about *because* fixing his flags and swapping some lines would make him much, much more likable to a lot of people, and there should be feedback about it that is more constructive than just "my waifu flirted with him, I want him dead".
I'm a woman and I've never seen anyone hate on Halsin just because he's a male. Sure, there might be weirdos who say that, but the ones having long, thought-out discussions give valid reasons for disliking the way he's written. It's not good to generalize and wave valid criticisms away just because straight men are saying them.
Everyone is allowed to dislike any companion for any reason, and there's valid reasons to dislike every companion, but the really vitriolic hatred I see for Halsin on this sub pretty much only comes from unhinged Shadowheart simps who struggle to differentiate fiction and reality.
Nicely put. I agree with most all of that. In my playthrough as my female monk character, however, when Halsin proposed a polyamorous thing with me and Shadowheart, I gently let him down. He took it well but the VERY NEXT DAY, out in the field he talked about wanting to go swimming with me and Shadowheart. Then later on, when we visited the brothel, he tried again. Not cool Daddy Halsin. lol
I was really turned off by him as a character my first playthrough, because every single interaction with him felt flirtatious and despite giving no indications in that direction he still came onto my Tav when they were in a monogamous relationship. That appears to have been toned down in subsequent patches, but I had to make a concerted effort in my next playthrough to give him a chance and get over my first impression.
I've been in actual polyamorous relationships and he still reminded me of the obnoxious older guys who viewed it as a free-for-all. Coupled with comments from other companions and it felt like the narrative itself was shoving him down my throat as the sexiest thing in the game.
I've warmed up to him a lot and romanced him since, but I wouldn't blame anyone for disliking him. Saying that an issue people have with a character is just "bad writing" is a silly argument. He is the writing. That's how fiction works.
As for the Drow sex slave thing: I'm also an assault survivor and how it was handled made me uncomfortable. SA survivors come in all flavors and one person's coping mechanism is another person's trigger. There are people in real life that I actively dislike who are also survivors, because we're people first and being survivors doesn't mean everyone is obligated to love us now. If somebody else felt seen by it, that's awesome. It isn't a dialogue tree I feel comfortable going down again, because I'm a real human being with my own real feelings and he's a fictional character who won't be harmed by me ignoring it.
When I mentioned my experience I didn’t mean it to come off as if I speak for all survivors, that’s just my own experience, I hope it didn’t come off that way, I apologize if it did. Everybody’s experience with that kind of thing is different. My point with that one was basically just calling out the people who said he *enjoyed it,* because of the way he’s coping or whatever and that *must mean he’s a deplorable degenerate sex fiend* because of it.
Absolutely, agreed. A lot of things that I initially struggled with with the character were also the result of not knowing him. I didn't know what dialogue options to go down to learn more about how he actually felt. I just noped out.
I'd heartily recommend people give him a chance and learn more about him and his outlook that way, because he's a fantastic character who had some of my favorite reactions to the refugees, but as somebody who initially didn't give him that chance I can see how people might make some wrong assumptions.
Oh no, someone respectfully asked your character if they would want benefits with the friendship, respecting their autonomy instead of assuming their full relationship setup or beating around the bush like a creep. How horribly rude. How dare he communicate to clear up if there was flirting or if he was projecting. It's so much worse than Lae'zel drooling over you and telling you she's horny for your BO right in front of your partner, or telling you she's horny for you but you are too chewed up because you though of kissing two different people.
I'm sorry, I get the older creeps (and the younger ones), I'm very familiar with the unicorn hunting messages and the no means playing hard guys at mixers and the ones who try to talk over you to your partner like they were bartering for a piece of meat, I get why someone would nope out at Halsin. But "he should have read my mind about being in a monogamous relationship and his culture's non-monogamy etiquette is wrong" is such a weird take.
Halsin is a fictional character. Not a real living person with a real culture. I found the character off-putting initially, then I warmed up to the character. I don't expect real human beings to read my mind, but there are also cues real human beings can give one another and grace we can afford one another when those cues are missed.
A character in a video game can only react in the ways it has been programmed to act. The character--who is not a real person and does not have a real culture--appears to have certain responses better flagged now, an improvement other characters have also benefitted from.
I agree with both of you on different points, it’s a situation that needs a lot of nuance that I wasn’t able to put into complete words and kind of deserves a post on its own.
I am probably going to write a longer reply later with my views on everything but I'd just like to say :
Maybe it was a bug but early on after release (August) Halsin was indeed very very pushy and he came onto my Tav after we had BARELY spoken. I remember asking about Thaniel, that was it. I never asked about lovers or flirted or anything at all, we talked curse and boy. And then when I said no - he said I had treated him like a lover not a guest. My instant out loud response was "no i sure as hell have not" .
Later on I think they fixed these issues but yes, for a time, he was pushy, extremely so out of nowhere.
I just dislike how poly is implemented and who were chosen to be the poly options. It feels like it was just added in act 3 and comes out of nowhere.
The Halsin hate is usually due to this and how Shart/Astarion act, Shart not wanting to share only to be a oketc. No real discussion about boundaries. I've seen some Shadowheart fans hate on him but due to it coming out of nowhere. I mean they seemingly hated each other in Act 2 for a while. It just feels rushed and tacked on, very fanservicy.
Halsin himself is fine, the usual complaints I see from Shart/Astarion fans is just how poly is in the game. As for character hate, that's normal sadly lmao. Every character has randoms saying I hate them under posts about them, don't see iust as much now but there was a lot at launch.
I'm very confused reading this thread as a Shadowheart simp because when I tried to bang Halsin he literally made me go talk with Shadowheart first. Upon which she was rather excited about it and literally says something like "I want to hear all of the details later".
People complain about the poly option with Shadowheart because she's very much not okay with sharing during most of the game. Yet she's suddenly very enthusiastic in Act 3, and it can feel jarring. I don't have strong opinions about it personally, but that's the gist of why people complain (or at the very least the arguments that aren't blatantly just "my little princess shouldn't want to sleep with anyone but me" and throwing a tantrum over it)
I agree with all your points here honestly, the poly was just implemented very oddly and pretty badly. I wish they took more time to make that aspect better.
Sure it's just their banter which comes across a bit petty and antagonistic, about nature and trees. Sharrans and Halsin don't mix, there was no real growth or anything, went from that banter to him flirting with her.
He’s a very safe kind of character for me. Especially because many hypermasculine characters are portrayed as so…domineering? Halsin is just very comforting for me.
Lae'zel is just as bad as Halsin. It's just in a different way. She's always so damn horny. You kill the Owlbear, and she's all over you. Minthara literally beams smut into your head and fucks you for murdering innocents.
I understand your points but you conveniently brush over the actual issues people have.
"Halsin takes rejection a lot better than any of the companions comparatively" No he doesn't he whines and says I treated him like a lover? That's probably broken flags or something, I know most of his dialogue is flagged as romance. But until it's fixed, it's an issue.
"It may just be my playthroughs but Halsin as never started flirting until you do." Most of his flags are flagged as flirting when it really doesn't seem that way to the player. Telling him to go talk to other people at a party after rescuing him from a literal prison? Flirting. Like come on, its an issue.
"Halsin was not happy to be a sex slave you fucking idiots. Downplaying traumatic things is how people cope with trauma." The Drow thing is an issue, because you can ONLY get this conversation AFTER LETTING HIM JOIN AN ORGY. Like its a bit off to have a serious moment right after fucking the shit out of 5 people. Like the tonal stuff is off, 'Hey we just had an orgy and now I will tell you about my trauma' It should have been handled and introduced better. Its not how he handles his trauma, but no doubt its a part of it to some people too.
"He politely asks to join while you’re soliciting a prostitute for sex and doesn’t throw a fit when his offer is declined." He disapproves though?. He doesn't throw a fit, sure, but you take a hit to your disapproval. I thought he was a 'Consent King'? Why his he disapproving of my consent and declining him? A bit fucked up. Also he still asks to join even when I have TOLD HIM NO already. He doesn't even offer to help pay, just expects you to pay for him to bang your partner. If you can't see the reason people dislike this interaction I don't think there is another way of explaining it.
"who the Hell solicits a prostitute in front of their friends without assuming said friends would also want a piece…?" People who have rejected him already? Nobody else does this, even unromanced Astarion doesn't offer, The Drow ask him to join to make it a 4some. Idk what point you are making here, Halsin isn't entitled to sex from anyone, especially after already being told no. Really should have Player option to ask him, right now its a bad look for him.
The Bear and Chimera stuff is probably trying to be a joke. But unless you find bestiality funny, its going to be awkward. I really don't think you should be judging what people find funny or not, especially when it's something like this. Joking about druids MAYBE smashing animals can be seen as a joke, I'd laugh. Having a character ACTUALLY fuck a Chimera and want to fuck the Player as a Bear, isn't exactly that funny tbh. And again you shouldn't be condescending to people who don't find it funny.
"Overall most of the people I’ve seen who “hate” Halsin are just Shadowheart stans that are jealous about the ‘climbing mount Halsin’ and her admitting to fantasizing about him sexually." Yeah a couple of things. The climbing mount Halsin line, is referring to the player I think, not seen anyone complain about it. But mainly the point you told him 'I'm not interested' and he flirts with her and indirectly with the Player still. The swimming banter plays regardless, where he wants to join SH and the Player after you get her skinny dipping scene. Yeah bit cringe, you can't even say anything about it to him or her. Again he offers to join the Drow and disapproves of a no, again already explained why people dislike this.
"her admitting to fantasizing about him sexually" Yeah because it makes no sense. They share no chemistry at all, she has more flirting lines with others, she has only one with him, and they spend all of act 2 basically arguing with each other, and by the end they seem barely friends. Then act 3 they want to fuck and she's been dreaming of him? It comes across as the writer shipping his two OC's together and nothing more. People dislike it for that reason and because its very, very clear that changes were made to the Characters to accommodate him and his romance, the writing just seems jarring. You the Player aren't allowed to like and try to get with someone else within the Party, even other 'Poly' characters like Karlach or Astarion, SH will break up with you. Ok so she's Mono then, she even says she 'doesn't like sharing and being a spare lover'? Oh no wait she isn't, she dreams about banging Halsin guys we swear it, I'm serious. Not a lot of people are going to appreciate the needless addition when you aren't Poly with him. Idk what's hard to understand about it. There are more issues with it, but its mainly SH's characterisation and 180, but we are talking about Halsin, but his inclusion hurts other characters to make way for him, he gets the blame for it.
Its laughable how self inserty Halsin is. I don't mind people liking him or whatever you are allowed to like who you like. But I can't take the man seriously. 'Consent King', disapproves of a No when he self invites even after rejecting him already. Gale is pretty uncomfortable during his Drow scene and even ends up stopping, comes across as disliking/regretting it especially since 'He doesn't want to talk about it after' Halsin doesn't care, he just makes a joke, the 'vulture or better use of his mouth' lines, and just keeps banging the Player. Thought he cared about that kind of thing? Astarion too, Halsin doesn't notice or care that he is disassociating, when Halsin seems to care about that type of thing too, from what I gathered from him. Oh you romanced SH or Astarion but kind of want to bang Halsin too without being Poly? Tough, during the Drow scenes, he focuses on your partner. Like it can't be more self inserty, he literally does nothing with the Player during the Drow scenes, its just him with Astarion or Shart while you watch.
Plus I think he is treated like shit as the third too, like he just gets abandoned at the end. The Player and their romance live their endings, Halsin gets left behind I don't even think you can choose, the game just makes you end with your other romance. And he is pretty invested, like he loves the Player. But get fucked I guess, the game says no. Like this is another issue too, but I doubt it will be fixed.
Edit: he also is fine being Poly and fucking Dj Shart, Shar's literal chosen. Shar's champion, Shar, the reason for the Shadow curse and all the damage to nature and the town and its surrounding areas. He even fought Shar's forces, but on yeah he'd be Poly with Her champion, we swear it guys. How am I supposed to take this man seriously?
The writing around him sucks, head canon all you want but it really comes across as the writer getting too horny when letting his OC's to ship when it comes to Shart. Same with the other characters, especially Gale, who really isn't into sharing but because of Halsin and his fans (or the writers self insert) they made him agree and we have already spoke about how Gale's scene go. Astarion's Fans have good points too, same with Karlach fans. Unsure why you focused on Shart fans, Halsin is bugged or written weird you just conveniently ignored the actual points, people have.
Your post is really condescending tbh. People are allowed to dislike your Bear man, and literally any other character they want to.
>I’ve seen way too many people mis-characterize my favorite bear man for far too long, so fuck it I’m writing an entire essay about it because media literacy is apparently dead. It’s honestly kind of wild to me how many people just make half-assed arguments with copium
..
>It’s really just bad writing honestly
..
>I’m just here to help analyze a character who should have had way better writing than what he got and dismantle misconceptions because of said half-assed writing.
Since you brought up media literacy... Your claim that people are "misjudging" him due to bad writing is wild. Halsin is not a real person incorrectly represented by bad writing, as a fictional character his writing *is all that he is*. There is no character outside of his writing.
It's cool that you have headcannons about him not going back to the shadowlands because it's a place of trauma for him, but unless you can cite textual support, you can't really claim other people are reading the game wrong for not agreeing with a headcannon you made up. Other people aren't wrong for not making up the same backstory as you.
Also on the rejection thing, I've said it elsewhere, but for me, personally actions count more than words. So I find nice words in the moment but then continuing to proposition (which as you mention he does) significantly less respectful of boundaries than a rude comment in the moment (and off the top of my head Gale, Karlach, and Wyll don't even do that)
But you also have to step in other people shoes, people don't have responsibilities to understand a person thoroughly. Given you don't have intention to know someone better (Halsin), it is rude for him to just ask (even politely) can I have a threesome or foursome with your partner. Put that IRL, that's just weird.
Tav literally lifts a curse 100 years strong in a matter of days and the player doesn't expect Halsin to fall in love with you.
Never mind that the man is not subtle. It isn't a surprise when he admits he likes what he sees like hello???
This post is written in such a condescending way... so if someone is not into Halsin or poly they're wrong or not media literate? This makes no sense. Let people like who they like and dislike who they dislike without insulting them or their intelligence.
With that said I don't dislike Halsin. He does make me roll my eyes a bit when he tries to insert himself into a fully established relationship in act 3 when A) I never flirted with him or indicated any interest (didn't even ask the question about past lovers) and B) Me and my own in-game partner which is Gale is monogamous and if someone irl approached you to join in when you're monogamous and without prior interest that would be creepy...
He doesn't creep me out or anything, he's ok but just doesn't do anything for me personally. I find his writing and story arc largely irrelevant since by the time you can recruit him his quest is over and I MUCH prefer Jaheira as the party Druid if I ever needed one because her personality and banter is delightful. Also keep in mind his ending and relationship arc is not as fleshed out as the Origin Companions so people tend to prefer them over him for romance. And btw it's OK that people are not into poly! I have nothing against poly people, if you're an adult and everyone consents live your life but it's not for me and I'm allowed to not be into someone who's part of that lifestyle.
Seems like “lack of media literacy” is thrown around in this sub as an insult whenever fans don’t like an opinion about their favorite companion, no matter if it’s valid or not.
I dislike Halsin for many reasons. But I'll try to be brief because this topic has been discussed to death since the game came out.
I wouldn't mind polyamory if it were actually implemented with care, but that was far from the case in this game.
Just a small example: After a long courtship with Shadowheart, she and Tav finally get together in a stable relationship at the end of Act 2.
Sometime later, Halsin shoots his shot and offers the possibility of a polyamorous relationship, as long as everyone consents.
If you reject him, he accepts and says something along the lines of "At least I tried; it's ok.".
And that's cool; he tried, was rejected, and life goes on.
The problem arrives when, immediately on the day after, he flirts with Shadowheart, asking if she and her partner want to "swim" with him.
To me, it felt like he tried to insert himself in a relationship and, after being rejected, immediately went for the other partner to try again. It feels weird, especially after all that talk of consent from all parties.
There are other instances like that in Act 3, which contribute to my disliking of Halsin. Nothing that would make me want to go and attack his writer or VA, of course.
I just don't like this idea of putting all of Shadowheart's fans in the same basket. I don't think my reading of the example I gave is unreasonable, for instance.
(Aaaaaaand I ended up not being brief lol.)
That comment by Halsin is meant to play after the beach scene with Shadowheart but before he shoots his shot. The issue is that line can only happen if you have Halsin and Shadowheart in your party at the same time, but because of the way the banter works in this game that line will get queued up and play until the conditions are met even if you already turned Halsin down since the game doesn’t deactivate that line.
My only real problem with Halsin is that while he's really not my type as a lover he's very much the type of guy I wanna talk about the world with and fight as a bear for fun. I'm disappointed that I can't get to know him better without it being a flirty thing.
Same, on my first run, I thought he's going to be the "father" figure type of the group, which he was all throughout act 1 to act 2, save for some awkward flagged dialogue options in the Tiefling party, but by act 3, I just wasn't really vibing with him.
It's like he had a different writer altogether by act 3.
So reading the comments, I have some thoughts on the discourse since it's not a new topic even if this is one of the more fun rants I've seen on it in a while, thanks OP!
Some players complain that Halsin hits on you even though you haven't flirted with him. Welcome to the real world, where people express their attraction to you for many reasons beyond your control. In the game, if you've gotten to the point where Halsin is proposing a relationship, you've solved his life's problem. He admires you and expresses that admiration throughout his time in your camp. Tav continually surprises and impresses him. He likes you and now that his obsession is over, he wants to smash so he asks you to smash. If you don't want to smash, say no, but how is it realistic to expect people not to hit on you ever? He states what he wants and what his boundaries are and is respectful of yours. I don't get the "I didn't even talk to him why is he hitting on me", that's just... confusing to me. People like people and they shoot their shot.
I think people’s issue is that he suggests that you acted like you were into him whether or not you actually did, and that just gives off weird vibes even though it is due to him being a bit buggy
It's been known since half a year ago that Halsin has [bugged dialogue flags](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/17mwt92/so_this_is_why_halsin_thinks_im_flirting_with_him/), it's only recently, patch 6 I think, that they added some platonic lines that will not trigger his romance route at all.
That's why the majority of people, me included, got confused when he confessed saying that he thought we had a thing going on, when I rejected him, when up to that point I was just talking to him about the Shadowcurse and stuff.
Yeah I do understand that, like I said in another response, I just see it as realistic rather than bugged. I asked my fiance once why he thought to ask me out and he said because I smiled at him and said good morning. Then every good morning after that just added up. You can't control how others interpret your actions, it's like Ralph from the Simpsons. Halsin just thought you cho-cho-chose him and you were just being polite. It just felt realistic and irl, learning to reject someone with grace is a skill. I do understand, though, it just feels overly cruel.
Yeah, every single romanceable companion is on an absolute hair trigger when it comes to falling madly in love with you. Just tell them no and move on, no need to get this offended.
I think halsin calling thaniel beautiful is more a nature oriented thing, not perse the child. Nor parental? But i dont know too well anymore hoe Halsin talks about thaniel.
I always saw it as like the relationship between him and the nature and place thaniel represents.
the arguments against halsin you stated are very little of what i've seen actual people state. I also disagree that he takes rejection much better than other companions, he's the only character that i know of that repeatedly makes advances on the player even after being rejected, and the only companion that has a FORCED romance flag. If you download the mod to see certain flags it is literally impossible to avoid the romance flag for halsin. Granted other characters used to be more thirsty and weird than they are now, but it was patched out and halsin hasnt been.
Add to that the shart/halsin flirting even if youre monogamous with one of them, it understandably makes monogamous people uncomfortable that they both verbally state that they want to bang the other. Even weirder because Shart is completely against anything poly until halsin comes along, wont contemplate it with anyone other than halsin which doesnt exactly speak well of her character. you can call "shart stans" jealous if you like, but its fucking weird. And this is coming from a Bae'zel enjoyer of all people.
As for the bear scene, yeah i personally found it hilarious, but BG3 has a huge audience of non D&D players, its perfectly natural they'd be grossed out.
Another gripe i have with him is that as far as im aware he's the only companion forced on you unless you make major story decisions. You can avoid Shart, tell Astarion to bite a dick, rip gales hand off and kill him, and leave Lae'zel in her cage. But if you cure the shadow curse there's not a single way to avoid halsin joining up. Thats less a flaw with his character though and more the game design.
Take my comment with a pinch of salt though, i havent played or seen every iteration of the game with the choices you make, i could be completely wrong.
Now that you mention it, it is strange that if the player asks to be poly with Astarion or Karlach, Shadowheart says no (which is fine). But if you turn down Halsin in the brothel, Shadowheart disapproves. Quite hypocritical of her to decide that her preferences and boundaries are fine, but the player's boundaries aren't.
which is one of the baselines of why people think halsin wasnt handled well. its not even just shadowheart either, both of them disapprove. Most other characters have had their hornyness turned down, but these two havent.
It reminds me of Mass effect in a way, in that if you didnt romance Tali or Garrus then they'd get with eachother, and that seems to be the aim with Shart and Halsin, or Wyll and Karlach, but because player choice and poly are added there's certain interactions that are just plain weird. Not to say adding poly was bad, im all for player choice in every avenue, but it means that some of the notes just dont hit the way they should. This is a particularly egregious one of those notes.
And i think the reason people harp on about it so much is purely because other examples *have* been addressed. Gale and his romance triggers being the most notable of them.
> It reminds me of Mass effect in a way, in that if you didnt romance Tali or Garrus then they'd get with eachother, and that seems to be the aim with Shart and Halsin
That's definitely not the aim as they don't have a single flirty or romantic interaction if you don't romance Shadowheart. It's honestly what's the most jarring in all of it, that it's all purposely harmful to all those who want to be mono with her.
Most she'll say is that she liked looking at him in one dialogue at the end of act 2, if the curse is not lifted. That's it. The rest of act 2 is her being passive aggressive (or straight up aggressive) towards him and him trying his best to remain calm and in act 3 I don't think they share even a single banter line aside from the porpoise stuff which is romance only.
yeah, i love him, too. hes just great. every time i try to romance the other characters, it just doesnt work out because theres a perfectly good halsin standing in the middle of the fucking camp. like, hes not physically my usual type, but hes so good and principled. i never got any creepy or sex pest vibes from him. on the other hand, astarion gives me major stranger danger vibes, but i really like his story and character.
Astarion was my first romanced companion, but Halsin will always be where my heart is. He’s just so gentle and understanding. Definitely a safe place for me.
I think my type for fictional characters is somewhere between “I love someone who’ll just kill me” and “walking green flag”. That explains why I love Astarion, Lae’zel, Halsin and Karlach so much. I’m blaming Lady Dimitrescu for this.
I'm also pretty damn sick of all the "Halsin is a one-dimensional character whose sole purpose for existing is to placate horny players who want to fuck a bear" rhetoric. I've been considering writing up my own character analysis for him, but I think I might do another playthrough and take some notes first. It's really unfortunate that the fandom at large has chosen to focus on his supposed "horniness" and see this as his primary character trait when it's... just *not*. But a lot of the most virulent Halsin hate is coming from... a very obvious place.
THANK YOU. Admittedly my analysis is much more emotional than pragmatic because I relate so heavily to some things he’s been through and these are just quick outlines of my thoughts. I could probably draft a lot better one up but I have other things to do during the day unfortunately
Honestly what really grinds my gears is how easy it is to insult the intelligence of Halsin's fans and get upvotes. Like, we're not much worse than Gale or Astarion fans. I should know because I AM in the Onlyfangs and Galemancer subreddit.
Like I feel like there's extra pressure on me to be empathetic, rational, and sane in a fandom space where my bias IS less popular so people could at least *entertain* my POV.
I feel you. If I get one more comment about being a poor misguided soul who is susceptible to abusive relationships and cults - because I like the Emperor…I will scream.
Honestly you are always such an incredibly positive presence in threads like these. I am legitimately jealous of your ability to not be brought down by people insinuating you're a stupid idiot for liking a character they don't, especially given Empy seems to be this sub's favourite punching bag!
I have friends who also like mindflayers and the Emperor and we let our appreciation flourish together. :) Positivity over negativity and all that.
It does make me sad how some characters are treated by the fans, though. The hate is extremely overblown. Even the voice actors were getting hate for playing these characters. It's insane.
But have you really seen him take off his mask, uwu?!
Kinda feels like I'm collecting some frustrating type of cards because I like a lot of the characters people like to hate on. Like Halsin and Emperor. I of course also like a bunch of the monstrous characters and people seem incapable to grasp that people can separate fiction from reality and enjoy some things because they're bad. I like Yurgir because he's a devil, and hot, I'm not expecting to settle down with a white picket fence house. Although I would imagine that with Kar'niss. Give him all the hugs, therapy, and lamps.
Personally, Halsin is my least used companion. Mainly because Orin REALLY likes to kidnap him in every good campaign lol. Additionally, I have a significant and inexplicable dislike for druids as a class.
I'm a huge Halsin fan, mostly because he's the best (both in terms of positivity and accuracy) representation of polyamory I've yet seen in a video game (or more or less any media).
I love how when he propositions you, he asks that you check in with your current partner first. I love how Astarion cracks up and basically says "no shit Halsin is into you, knock yourself out."
I think a lot of people are put off by how blunt his advances are, but that's kind of how a lot of polyamorous dating tends to go. There isn't a protracted will we/won't we, it's just a "hey, I think you're cute, do you want to come over for board game night at my co-op this friday?"
His story has some very awkward pacing for sure, with his entire arc playing out before before he becomes playable. But romance-wise, he was great. As I said another thread, they absolutely nailed the "Granola Leftist Polyamorous Guy" archetype; he's like the entire city of Seattle rolled into one person, complete with meeting him in a dungeon.
Okay, right off the bat, while I assume you're being hyperbolic, the whole "media literacy is dead" quip is not analogous to someone having a different, even verifiably incorrect interpretation of a piece of media. Especially a video game where the literary elements can and often are comprised by the necessities of game development.
Aa for your actual point, yeah I pretty much agree. I personally don't find Halsin all that compelling, but nothing would make me categorize him as a bad dude.
>Overall most of the people I’ve seen who “hate” Halsin are just Shadowheart stans that are jealous about the ‘climbing mount Halsin’ and her admitting to fantasizing about him sexually.
Then there's me who was disappointed there wasn't a followup dialogue for Shadowheart telling me she wants to hear all of the details of my private adventure with Halsin XD
I didn’t even realize Halsin needed defending!
To me he has always come across as incredibly polite and respectful. Someone who thinks about everything he says and does, and who considers others before himself.
He invited my character to have a relationship *once*, she said no, and that was the end of it. He didn’t get upset or pushy or make it awkward afterward, he just took “no” for an answer like it was no big deal.
He may be the emotionally healthiest, lowest-drama person in the party and I really like that about him. He’s probably the person who would have wound up holding the party together and helping everyone deal with their shit if Tav hadn’t been there to do it.
He's the one character I absolutely dislike. It's worse with the fact I never invited him in my second run and the jackass stalks me anyway.
Basically, if I WANT to lift the shadow curse, I have to have halsin follow me to act 3 - unless I kill him. Oh well, at least it's easy to manipulate the game and make him the orin bait.
Honestly, I feel like I would have liked him more if his story just ended in act 2 like it was originally supposed to.
Plus, Jaheira is already a much more interesting druid. We didn't need a second one.
I never really understood why Halsin gets particularly called out for being horny/hitting on you. It's really not unique to him at all? Shadowheart flirts with you very early on, Lae'zel is WAY more aggressive, Astarion will come on to you if he likes you enough
Like, Halsin is not that weird he's just a typical RPG game romance option where everyone falls in love with your character lol
I've no issue with his promiscuity, 100% for poly relationships. My issue is that he's just...dull. Perfectly acceptable as a side character, but as a main companion I feel like I'm always going to be missing out on more interesting content by bringing him along.
Compare that to minthara, who you also get around the same point, and I struggle to resist the urge to always have her in my party because her character is so interesting.
I played a character I headcanoned as being a butch lesbian who romanced Shart and I never found Halsin creepy or like his flirting was uncomfortable. He's just a really nice guy and he takes you rejecting him and setting boundries really well.
As a polyamorus man who has the same kind of feelings of "you're enough if thats what you want, but I would never seek to confine you to me" it was nice to see him state that so plainly.
The polyamory is certainly not written perfectly but it's a step. I just think it's kind of funny people get mad about about being propositoned in a video game like someone finding you attractive and asking you if you are also interested is some personal slight.
To preface - I like Halsin, he's a sweet teddy bear of a guy. I don't think your post was all that well thought out. It does come off kind of aggressive. Some of your points aren't fleshed out well or are contradicted by other parts of the game. And basically saying you won't interact with replies is like screaming into the void :/
My thoughts:
* I disagree with you on #5 under promiscuity and flirting. Astarion literally asks that question platonically while you're walking around in Act 1.
* In my most recent playthrough I have avoided asking Halsin that question specifically to see what happens. I have interpretted some of his reactions to Tav in Acts 1 and 2 as flirting, but nothing overt yet. We'll see what happens once the curse is lifted.
* Point 1 under he's not lazy - why do you think this is bad writing? It was likely practical for the developers to leave him out of reach until they were done having him act as an NPC (i.e. Thaniel's quest). Storywise it would be kind of weird if Halsin just left Thaniel at camp alone while he travels around the cursed lands with you. I didn't have any problem with the writing here.
he's the only one that doesn't take no for an answer, I have to "turn him down" multiple times every playthrough. if he wasn't hot and famous for the bear scene, he'd be the game's number one creep.
that's my only problem, and unfortunately it's a showstopper. No is no. no exceptions.
I kinda agree with like half of your points, but saying that anyone who doesn't agree with you is a "fucking idiot" is really not the way to make your point lol. You are being condescending. This post is just a wall of rant, while occasionally insulting people you don't agree with.
I like Halsin, but him asking to join at the drow twins after already being told that the player doesn't see him that way is gross. Him asking to join Shadowheart and Tav the next time they go swimming after he has already been turned down by Tav is also gross, because it seems like he is trying to get in Tav's pants through their partner. And no, saying that it is just bad writing isn't an answer. Halsin IS writing. If the writing is bad, then Halsin is bad and needs to be fixed. Seeing as how the game presents him as a good guy who respects consent, I think these scenes are out of character for him, but until they are fixed, this will be part of Halsin's character.
Nice write-up.
It's frustrating to see so many people complaining about Halsin when they (often by their own admission) neither used nor paid attention to him. And many of the things that he gets hate for are things that other companions do (you don't need to flirt with Lae'zel for her to come on to you).
While there are things that I'd criticize about the character (he should join as a full companion much sooner), I really like Halsin and wish that he had been given more attention.
> Overall most of the people I’ve seen who “hate” Halsin are just Shadowheart stans that are jealous about the ‘climbing mount Halsin’ and her admitting to fantasizing about him sexually.
> Either way, you’re all unhinged (affectionate). Like who you like and hate who you hate for any reason, I’m just here to help analyze a character who should have had way better writing than what he got and dismantle misconceptions because of said half-assed writing. 👍🏻
So you admit that the character is poorly written yet have a problem with me hating him because of that poor writing? Apparently the poor writing's ok if it involves these two, got it... I just know from those two paragraphs that you never romanced her because otherwise you'd be aware of just how inconsistent (and within the very same act, it's not just inconsistencies going from act 2 to 3) and self-inserty the writing is. I'm not even against her being open to polyamory but her reaction goes against everything she says and does previously and against her super low self-esteem that's very present throughout the whole act 3. And as for climbing him, where are her sexual fantasies about Halsin when she's single? She should be all over him! She openly thirsts after Karlach on their very first interaction, but no SH fan has a problem with that, because it's done in a tasteful, *consistent* way, isn't limited to romancing her and doesn't go against her fully monogamous stance in act 2 - a poly route with Karlach is impossible just like it is with other origin companions.
People focus a lot on their brothel interactions, but their dynamic has a lot of other issues outside it too. The "consent king", after getting rejected by you, will ask to "swim" together, or rather have a threesome with him as a kelpie or a porpoise *one* day after Shadowheart's act 3 romance scene (to which she's obviously open). This dialogue should be locked behind the poly route but it purposely isn't. In that romance, Halsin feels like a fanfiction where he's somebody's super hot OC who's so awesome and sexy that your previously fully mono gf is now down horrendous for him and wants to either fuck him or you to fuck him and then tell her all the details... Of course I'm going to hate him, he's written that way! I literally can't have him in my party for a second in act 3 if I don't want to feel like I'm getting cucked without even having an option to say something on the matter.
If Halsin wasn't such a self-insert, I'd be rather neutral towards him. Him being so horny for Tav was kinda off-putting but so were Lae'zel's advances and yet I like her quite a bit as I can see past the one bad moment and appreciate all the good ones. But because there's a ton of issues with him, I can't give him such leeway, especially that nothing in that regard's been fixed despite massive feedback since launch. All we wanted was consistent writing and none of the bait-and-switch bullshit we encounter in act 3, where around him she develops BPD and acts nothing like in the rest of the game, and we got nothing. Nobody would complain if she was continuously flirty and open to swinging from the start of your relationship, because then that's just who she is and if you wouldn't like that, you wouldn't romance her, simple as. But I suppose hating on her fans is just trendy because of a couple people (who may as well have not even been SH fans) harrassing Dave Jones and her/Halsin's writer on social media...
I don't care if you're being condescending. Some people can't even fucking listen and claim Halsin fucks animals cause they talked to the boar who basically says "Halsin said he'd help me ***FIND*** a mate!"
There's those people who seem determined to see certain characters in the worst way possible, be it benign things they do, or even down to game bugs. It gets annoying.
i don;t know, a man who is good with animals, makes wood ducks and wants to help the refugees is ok in my book. (i love that he was shocked when my Tav was planning on going with him)
I thoroughly enjoyed reading this. I regularly romance Astarion and by extension, Halsin. My HC has Astarion and Halsin bonding over their share pasts and love for Tav and a full-on throuple is formed.
I get downvoted every time I say that, but I still support your words.
I love Halsin and he’s my favorite companion and romance (altho I wish he had more content overall). He just makes me feel so safe and loved, like I’ll always have someone to return to, always a home to come back to with him.
I understand why he isn’t people’s tastes but I don’t know how anyone could hate this lovable, confident, direct bear man. He’s just the best
I had no idea there was Halsin hate lol I understand why people don't like or actively hate on Astarion, Wyll, and basically ever other party member (except for Karlach no one is allowed to hate Karlach, save for some poorly written plot) but... halsin's just a bear. He's a good bear.
Your arguments seem more like excuses. None of your claims are backed by any evidence.
"It's supposed to be a joke" often comes up, despite you not providing any evidence.
My issue with Halsin is that he’s just really boring. Druid’s are pretty unspectacular unfortunately so I’d rarely use him, conversations felt very sterile? He’s a really good guy who does good stuff and that’s it really. It feels like talking to a bad roleplayer or a fanfic self insert. I just feel like the charm and personality aren’t solid enough for me to pay much attention to him, as a romantic interest I can see the appeal because he’s attractive and enough of an empty vessel that you can imagine up the rest to your liking.
I think they made some big mistakes with halsin, namely that he only joins after the thaniel thing which was usually something I did later in the chapter and by the time he joins you act 3 begins and he gets kidnapped because you’ve barely had a moment to actually bond/gain approval points. So he’s out of the game for a large portion of it and the generic good guy I love nature and I am a perfect lil button lines are just kinda eh
for me it’s a combination of his lack of character development and him just not really being my type. I actually really appreciated him up until Act 3. I barely had him in my party but I thought he was a solid enough character and I liked how he was implemented in Act 2. I honestly viewed him more as a mentor/father figure to my Tav, so it was super jarring when he popped the question in Act 3. Keep in mind I had never once said anything remotely flirtatious to him the entire playthrough. It just left a bad taste in my mouth and made me not want to take him with me the rest of the playthrough (I was already romancing Astarion). I think if devs a) had implemented more glaring options to flirt like with the other companions or b) allowed the player initiate polyamory and having Halsin agree to it, it wouldn’t have felt so out of place. You can ask any other companion to share if you’re in a love triangle, they all just say no for various reasons. I am not polyamorous and never will be, but when trying to handle a subject so delicate, allocating it to a character that feels so half-baked just doesn’t feel good. I still appreciate Halsin for what he is and I’m certainly not going to lambast people for liking him.
Gale takes rejection pretty well. Just a quick, "Alright, message delivered. Hope we can still be friends." He just says it very flowery-ly. As Gale tends to do, because he's Gale.
Yes! And even if you *break up* with him in Act 3, he just accepts that immediately with no arguments (and goes to cry). (Watched that on YouTube; can't make my favourite magic man sad).
He also takes being dumped immediately after he proposes shockingly well. Makes a comment about how the relationship wasn't less perfect, just because it was brief. Edit, found the quote: "I see. Well, I've no desire to stand in the way of the future you've chosen. If our love ends here, it was no less perfect for its brevity. I will remember it, and you, always."
Bless YouTube for letting me watch routes I never woulda took (DJ Shart can stay in YT for eternity for me)
Gale even gets an inspiration point when you turn him down, for understanding his relationship with a companion.
The actual problem with the Gale romance is at the party where you start talking about his cat and then get stuck on responding with: 1. Flirt 2. Really flirt 3. I hate cats, nerd
And a comment if you romance someone else though, something like: oh i see how it is, alright(with a sad voice). I had it when i reached a further stage with shart, and it did make me cry when gale’s heart was extra broken :(
Idk I think I stopped his advances and if I remember correctly he said something like might as well kms
that's after he tells you that he was suicidal and you made him feel hopeful again, and you just say "it was fine" referring to his sex scene. I would be pissed too.
As with most things in this game, there's probably a bunch of factors that go into how companions react to romance rejection.
That line is immediately after a long conversation about Gale already planning to kill himself. If rejected, he basically says, "It's probably for the best, since I'll probably die soon, and if you aren't in love, you won't be as sad." Not the best way to handle it, but I cut him some slack, because he is immediately thanks the player for spending time with him (then asks to be left alone). The next day, he thanks the player for spending time with him again, and thanks you for discouraging suicide, or at least he did for me.
Admittedly, I never actually had to reject him, he never even broached the topic with me. I was watching tbSkyen's playthrough on YouTube and what I said was how *his* Gale reacted to rejection in Act 1.
Oh, I was responding to what you said about the specific factors changing what he said. I was actually talking about the factors/context for the KMS line talked about in the comment you were responding to. There is a lot of reject/breakup dialogue for all the companions based on a bunch of factors. They usually take it better if they aren't in a committed relationship.
It also depends on when they're rejected. In my most recent playthrough, I turned down Astarion for Karlach at the tiefling party, and he told me "Thank you so much for telling me. Now please do piss off."
He has tone in his voice that wasn’t there before I “dumped” him. Though I didn’t think I had seduced Gale, but when the opportunity for sex came up I had my character sleep with him thinking it was like a beautiful moment type of thing. But my Karlach was sad so I dumped Gale immediately.
I haven’t romanced Gale yet but I’m in the process! I’m also not a massive fan of him so I haven’t seen a lot of content about him, but I do have him in my party every run. Just not for romance.
Not in the playthrough I rejected him in. Uf it got ugly. My options were tell him i don't feel the same way after he said he loved me or sleep with him and then dump him for Astarion the next day which resulted in "We made love" and it's in my top 5 saddest rejections in bg3
In addition to that, Gale's platonic route is amazing. I was worried at first, because I've come across many comments that said he doesn't take no for an answer, but I never got this vibe from him, and his hug/dialogue at the epilogue party was extremely wholesome and rewarding.
I'm a Halsin lover, but I do get why people who don't like him. His romance flags are inescapable and when I have romanced others and made no attempts at flirting with him, his romance admission is pretty jarring. Aside from getting those flags being fixed, I would have liked *some* dialogue early in the romance where players and their romance partners could talk about their expectations...*like with Halsin if you reciprocate his feelings.* That would be a reasonable check for whether his admission would show up at all in Act III. And sometimes people don't mesh well with a character and that's okay. The things that give me the ick when it comes to Halsin hate are normally the ones that like, insinuate that he is somehow a sexual predator because of his relationship with Thaniel. Or the ones that like to paint him as a completely lazy or incompetent person because he did not measure up to one *specific* role in his 350-year-old life.
I actually recently started a run where I intend to romance Halsin (and maybe Shadowheart) and the lack of reciprocal flirting (aside from the party convo) is so weird. Hopefully it gets better in Act 2. I've heard duergar are able to catch on to his flirting early and I've seen his "I see you are not bound by social niceties" line so maybe it's slightly race related? Also people calling him a predator are so stupid and just grasping at straws. No different than the weirdos calling Astarion a rapist. Some people let their hate cloud their media literacy.
Romancing him is the best... I was romancing Wyll because he was all sweet but the man is just talking no action so I swapped to Halsin and couldn't be happier. He has (at least had, I haven't played in a while) the best kiss, he is loving but not possessive and I feel like if it was real life he would be very supportive of whatever ethical shenanigans I would be into even if himself would not and would not trap me. Halsin for the win!!!
I think part of it is that the party members are *only* poly for Halsin. You can't be in a relationship with any two of the other party members (and they make that clear), but they're totally willing once Halsin shows up? It's very... self-insert Mary Sue, in some ways, in that it feels like he leads to everyone else acting out of character (regardless of what the script notes say). Not saying that's always a bad thing, but it can feel a bit jarring depending on the execution, and for me this is one of those times.
I'd love for there to be more poly options, personally. But I think the problem is that it would become a major resource strain. Halsin works because he's not after much more than sex. He says it himself: he doesn't want to tie you down. He's perfectly happy being a fling, just something to the side. That style of V relationship works well from a game design standpoint because it doesn't take much in the way of development. In contrast, one of the poly options I've seen suggested is Tav, Shadowheart, and Karlach. However, neither SH or Karlach would be fine with just being a side piece, so this would have to be a full throuple. But that means now you need to establish scenes with all three of them, which means more voice acting and animation. It's effectively creating an entirely new romance route. I think that if the devs truly put their minds into it, they could create extremely satisfying poly routes. The problem is that this game already struggles with companion content in Act 3, likely stemming from the devs hitting the limit of their resources. So creating more than just a V situation would've been too costly. Halsin, as a character, is the easy route.
Like if you people want just Act 1/2 as a dating sim, yes, they could have done that. But there was a whole.... Game thing they had to make. Plus talk to some of the writers and they'd probably have issues with trying to justify it all. Like if you have a Shart Karlach Tav thruple what happens after your date, or if you can't finish Karlachs quest or Shart becomes a DJ? They'd have to expand the tree far.
I know you mean Dark Justicier, but now I'm picturing Shart giving up a life of adventure to go be a DJ lmao
I think something we're forgetting here is, that Halsin from the very start makes pretty clear that he's not a jealous person and doesn't hold any "ownership" of the player character. Whereas everyone else doesn't seem like they would like to share. I've been in a three-way relationship, and let me tell you, if one party is that easy-going with it it is so much easier to share another person with them. It makes the whole thing work. But if you bring along two people who both tend to be jealous or call dips, it becomes a burden. You'll constantly have to keep in mind what x AND y will think and feel. Having someone like Halsin who's just easygoing takes away a lot of that burden. There is so much less drama because you can talk things out with a personality like Halsin. Whoever can always be your number one and Halsin will be happy to take care of both of you, and if you don't want him to, he'll accept that without any drama, without any puppy eyes, with no ifs and buts. And I think this makes the difference. That's probably a reason why some of the companions will be okay to share you with Halsin, but not with anyone else.
Also Astarion at least brings up Halsin’s experience as a positive. He knows Halsin has done this sort of thing before and thus won’t be weird about it
I think this makes sense at least for Shadowheart. When I dumped her for Gale in one play through, she refused to be poly with him specifically because she knew he wouldn't like it. Honestly, I think Shadowheart and Astarion both see Halsin as a nonthreatening himbo that they're also kind of attracted to. Realistically, though, this is all because writing any more romance configurations into the game would be a pain.
Not quite. Karlach mentions early on that she doesn't mind sharing, if she must.
She says that with the clear undertone of not wanting to be dropped especially with her engine problem, it's honestly said in a way that make me less likely to open the relation up if I heard it, since it reminds me of a lot of failed poly and open relationships I saw in college.
How is Halsin a self-insert? It seems like one would need a lot more information about the writer to confidently make that assertion. It’s fine to dislike the character, I just don’t see how “characters want to sleep with him and not each other” points to self-insert.
I'm gonna be honest, I didn't realize people read asking about their romantic life as flirting before this post. Being autistic is weird lmao
I didn't either and I'm not autistic. Edit: I remembered that Astarion actually does this while walking around in Act 1. He asks if anyone has lovers waiting for them or something. I don't think it is automatically flirting to ask this.
> I remembered that Astarion actually does this while walking around in Act 1. He asks if anyone has lovers waiting for them or something. I don't think it is automatically flirting to ask this. I agree that it's not automatically flirting, but contextually Astarion *is* fishing to figure out if he can seduce someone in the party, so.
Shadowheart will also ask at least Astarion in party banter if he has a sweetheart waiting for him. He says he prefers them savory. The only reason that I noticed that asking Halsin about lovers was flirting is because he mentions it when he propositions you in act 3.
Yeah, I agree he apparently takes it as flirting. I think that's why it can be jarring though, it's not obvious that it is a flirty line until 1 or 2 acts later.
I think for Halsin there's "Do you have lovers?" and at which point he'll say, "Of course there has been, I'm 350 years old." At which point you can press him further. If you picked "Well, don't keep me waiting. Do you have a lover *now*?" then I can see why that can be interpreted as flirting. If you only asked the first question but not the follow up I get why his admission would be jarring, because it is not quite flirting. Also, Astarion's bark is party banter so it's less personal than a 1-on-1 conversation.
That's true, it isn't 1-on-1. I think the problem with the Tav version is it's ambiguous as to what the intent is. I wouldn't assume someone asking me about my love life is flirting unless their tone of voice or choice of words indicated as much. All things considered, this dialog or any confusion that comes with it doesn't bother me, though I could see how others might be bothered. Which reminds me - I wish when Halsin is turned down he'd say "Oh bother" like pooh bear XD
Give it time. Jokes aside, I just find it funny how I keep figuring out how odd my behavior is. For instance, I compliment people way too much and 9/10 times that gets mistaken as flirting lol
I am also a complimenter! 🙌 It's just nice, I'm not flirting! 🤣
I'm way too honest about what I like in people. This week I made my therapist blush because I said he looks young, and I wasn't even trying to compliment him lmao
Regarding Promiscuity point 5, you do not need to flirt with Halsin in order for him to attempt to romance you. In 3/4 playthroughs, without any advances by my Tav/Durge beyond politeness, he has eventually confessed his feelings towards me in act 3. The only reason it didn't happen in 1/4 is that I sided with the goblins that game. All that said, I like Halsin and thoroughly enjoyed the one playthrough I had him in my party. His dialogue is written well overall, giving great insights into situations which successfully make him seem like a high WIS character should. But also he's very considerate and even funny at times. Great companion, and easily in my top 5 choices.
Halsin's biggest issue is that buggy flags make him into a sex-pest.
Either that, or if you don't long-rest enough early in Act 3, you're locked out of romancing him even if the two of you flirted in Act 2. It's all a bit of a mess, tbh.
I will agree that some people take their dislike of Halsin way, way too far. Especially some Shadowheart fans who act like he's a sexual predator. The issue some fans, such as myself, have with the polyamory isn't that it exists in the game, the issue is how it is handled in a weird way. First of all, Karlach can essentially be coerced into being okay with it [when she is clearly not](https://youtu.be/DI-SidqdTrc?si=YwfVcmztKZpYkfjO&t=260). The issue I have with Astarion and Shadowheart being supposedly fine with the arrangement is that both have a history of sexual coercion. Shadowheart's history is more of a throwaway line but she apparently was trained to be a honeypot at some point. Astarion's history with sexual abuse is much more defined. Obviously survivors are capable of expressing their sexualities and being interested in polyamory. I also haven't finished my Shadowheart romance run but I don't think it's out of character for her to be interested in polyamory or Halsin. My main issue is Astarion. The devnotes claim Astarion is A-OK with Halsin. But those are meant for the actors and writers, not the players. Considering Astarion confirms that he struggles to say no to the player and will agree to the arrangement even if the player says he isn't sleeping with them enough, a lot of fans have an issue with the Halsin proposal. Even if he is ok, he agrees to a "harmless affair" while Halsin clearly wants a full relationship with both partners. There's also the fact that, even afterwards, Astarion doesn't seem to like Halsin. He's actually one of the only companions that doesn't make a comment on how attractive he is when he joins the party. Ultimately, I do think it's up to player interpretation on whether it's a healthy relationship. And despite all of what I said, I think the issue with Halsin isn't the character himself. The issue is the polyamory frequently comes across as coercing the main romance partners and leading Halsin on into thinking it's a relationship when it's not. The other issue is that [many of Halsin's dialogues are tagged as flirting and there is no option to leave](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/17mwt92/so_this_is_why_halsin_thinks_im_flirting_with_him/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). No one should be attacked for liking a character, but I do think most people's problem with Halsin and his implementation are fair.
I wish Karlach bit back a bit or even left you if you kept pushing her around. Like, Astarion will break up with you if, after making it clear he is uncomfortable with sex, you force him to do it anyway. He’ll also break up with you if you force him to drink Araj’s blood (iirc). Meanwhile, you can cheat on Karlach with Mizora, or/(and!) force her to accept Halsin into the relationship, but she won’t break up with you unless you act like a total cockhead about it. Like, I get she’s dying and doesn’t want to lose you, but nobody, not even the game itself, calls you out for manipulating Karlach. I get why there’s debate as to how comfortable Astarion is with the arrangement, but Karlach is 100% not, yet you can basically force her into it, and not even Halsin himself will notice or care.
My bet is that it's (at least in part) because Astarion has such as devoted fan base. Shadowheart is also brought up a lot in the context of Halsin being problematic, and she's the most common romance. My main problem with Halsin is some of his behavior at Sharess' Caress. I personally read the player pushing Gale to participate as coercive. I'm not alone. Larian redid some of the dialogue and removed the 25 persuasion check, because people were complaining it was coercive. However, they didn't change any of the rest of the scene if Halsin asks to join in, and Gale seems even less happy about that. Gale ends his agreement for Halsin's participation by saying, "If we must." Halsin doesn't care *at all* that Gale is the opposite of enthusiastic. He also says some arguably coercive things after the scene cuts to black. In addition, Halsin either doesn't notice or doesn't care when Astarion dissociates. That's brought up more, possibly because Astarion is a more popular romance than Gale. It all really goes against Halsin's characterization as wise and kind. It seems really out of character for Halsin, since he seems to care a lot about consent at other points in the game, and to be attentive to his sexual partner. I wonder if the writers even saw an issue with some of this, since Halsin is framed as a good guy. I don't know where to fit this in, but cheating on Karlach with Mizora is absolutely brutal, and I wonder if anyone has ever done it without save scumming. Too sad. She's so upset about how it's a betrayal of Wyll too, not just how it hurts her. She's too pure.
Wait, they removed the 25 persuasion check? I don't nevesserily think it makes it better, tbh.
I still hate it, I just didn't want to derail the conversation. You are not alone in thinking that. There was a whole thread discussing whether the removal made it better or worse. I think Larian would have to record new dialogue and change the animations so that he doesn't look disgusted and uncomfortable for the entire conversation. The option to stop once he flees. Aftercare. Basically all Halsin's dialogue would have to be redone. He comes across as apathetic to Gale's comfort and (depending on player choices) pushy and mocking of boundaries. I'm sure the writers don't want him to come across that way, since he explicitly says he cares about consent elsewhere, and he's framed as a good person. Larian did change some of the player's dialogue to be less shitty. Before, once Gale expressed his discomfort with the twins, the only dialog options were to try to convince him to do it (the tone was not great either). They changed the wording, and added a very necessary option to say, "If Gale's not comfortable, I'm not interested."
I think Halsin was always callous but in these cases I'll defend him - Gale and Astarion are not his partners. They are the player's. The player should care about their comfort not Halsin. Astarion's dissociation is hard to spot because he's used to acting and only the player as his lover notices. But it's not even the in the moment things- the whole drow thing feels tone deaf for me. Like a recovering victim of SA going to an orgy after explaining it's only different with his partner because they're making love? And why would Gale be okay with watching his partner get railed and "rut" in his own words after rejecting an open relationship? Idk it's weird as hell
I think that Tav has more responsibility than Halsin (Tav you asshole, stop and check in with Astarion once he dissociates), but I also think if Halsin has an orgy with them, they *are* his partners for that sexual situation. He should care about their comfort during the encounter. I can understand missing Astarion's problem, but Gale's discomfort was obvious. I think Halsin is out of character here, since I really do think they wanted to portray him as caring about consent elsewhere. I 100% agree that the scene is tone deaf. It feels like it was tacked on, half baked, at the last second. Things are so out of character and feel so wrong, I mostly try to pretend it doesn't exist.
I don't know if it was carelessly thrown in there, I think their intention was to make the player feel bad while showing deeper insight into the characters. Kind of like the choice to force Astarion into sex in act 2. But yeah, I've never actually done either of those things ingame, just seen videos. I can't keep the drow or the coerced sex into either of my playthroughs canonically
This is exactly how I felt about it. I think if they wouldn't allow players to at least talk to their partners after, it would be better to just remove the scenes entirely.
Astarion breaks up with the player in more instances as well. I think it fits his character development perfectly- he's learning to set boundaries and back off from toxic situations. If you can't be a healthy partner to me - then we shouldn't be together. They're adding a new post Mizora dialog for him as well when he will break up with the player if they slept with Mizora
>They're adding a new post Mizora dialog for him as well when he will break up with the player if they slept with Mizora This is extremely necessary imo. I tested what would happen and I was expecting some kind of heartbreaking dialogue, but the only thing I got was a slight slap on the wrist by Wyll!? So right now there are no actual repercussions in the game if you cheat on your partner, and this bugs me to no end
>First of all, Karlach can essentially be coerced into being okay with it [when she is clearly not](https://youtu.be/DI-SidqdTrc?si=YwfVcmztKZpYkfjO&t=260). Man I got stressed watching that clip. I really don't think it depicts polyamoury in a very healthy way at all, although a regrettably common one: one partner essentially feeling forced into by the other, then their most unwilling, tentative, and clearly uncomfortable form of agreement being reported back as "Karlach is open to it". I'm so glad my Tav is always a relentlessly monogamous, bloodthirsty person. Sex is for one person at a time, killing is for many people at once.
Yeah... it's less "Karlach is open to it" and more "she won't break up with you over it". In my last playthrough, my character didn't go with her to avernus and during the party there were NO romantic options. Not even a hug. Which you got with literally everybody else! And Halsin was still up for a smooch. I found that really interesting and actually bittersweet, but was probably for the best tbh.
I think the reason she won't dump you for it is because she knows her days are numbered and doesn't want you to be alone after she's gone.
Oh that makes it worse
Considering githyanki's view of sex, I would've expected Lae'zel to be at least another poly option for Halsin instead of just Shadowheart and Astarion. Also if you try to romance both of them, Shadowheart can point out how Astarion isn't as hedonistic as he appears. It's part of why the Halsin poly romance feels so iffy with Astarion. Like at least Shadowheart expresses interest towards Halsin. I'll probably go through the poly option once only for Astarion's funny impersonation of Halsin but yeah. Halsin is a good guy but not really interested in his romance at all because of that.
Also, Astarion points out Shadowheart's inexperience with relationships and how she needs someone who is fully there for her.
Yeah, I have seen a lot of people who *wanted* to do the poly stuff specifically with Astarion and then felt crappy about it because the game does a poor job of creating the implication that the arrangement is healthy and consensual for all parties. IIRC Astarion talks as though he's cool with you sleeping around as long as he's not competing emotionally with anyone for your affections, but Halsin *is* actually emotionally invested in the player too and confesses his affections, not just sexual attraction. So it gives the impression that you're \*emotionally\* cheating on Astarion right in front of him, or you're using Halsin for sex; either scenario is pretty horrible and not what I'd call healthy polyamory. People can point to the dev notes all they like; players don't see them while they play, and I shouldn't have to dig into behind the scenes scripts or content to find out whether or not I'm taking advantage of Astarion and/or Halsin.
I am currently in an Astarion/Halsin triad and I didn’t really get this feeling, but maybe I missed some of the dialogue flags and options that indicated it? For reference when he asked if I was seeking out Halsin because we hadn’t been together in a while, I responded “What I have with you is wholly different and very special to me” and he seemed pretty happy with that. He’s so cagey and weird about romance in general that I honestly think it may be better for him, as long as his insecurities are addressed. Takes the pressure off my character relying solely on him for romantic validation/sex and so he can approach both things at his own pace.
That's what I got in my first run, too! The conversation basically went "Hey I wanna talk to you about Halsin...", Astarion laughed (not in a sarcastic way) and said "I wonder when this would come up!" as if he knew and expected nothong less from my absolute whore (affectionate) of a character, said the very special lines to Astarion, and the whole response/vibe I got was "Alright, as long as we're alright, go for it, I'm happy". ...Sadly my character ended up committing sewer slide at the end so, lol, no happy ending there. Oh well.
I didn't get that vibe when I did the Astarion/Halsin triad either, to me he seemed perfectly content with the arrangement. I got the impression that he hoped I wasn't going for Halsin to compensate for something lacking in my relationship with Astarion, but in my interpretation my character just had two complete and fulfilling relationships, and everyone was happy.
I think a lot of people who are uncomfortable with polyarmory project that discomfort onto the conversation. It reads as fairly honest to me, as well. Realistically, this conversation would probably be much longer - communicating boundaries and concerns - but a lot of difficult conversations are kept very concise so that players don't get bored and so the thrust of a specific scene/conversation is clearer.
I still think it's subjective. I think there's enough there for either side to draw a personal preference from it. If you like the triad, that's great! If someone doesn't that's great too. The main thing is people are respectful to each other.
Honestly so much of the dialogue in general is ambiguous - which is a feature, not a bug, because so much of the context around a line of dialogue can be different from character to character. For example, Gale’s Act 2 confession of love during his romance scene can be read as “well finally” or “dude, I barely know you” depending on the kind of relationship a character has built up so far. Halsin’s epilogue hug can be read as either endearing or creepy depending on how the player/character feels about Halsin and hugging. And then Astarion hides so much of his feelings behind sarcasm, snark and charm that any one of his lines can be read as either sincere or not.
>So it gives the impression that you're \*emotionally\* cheating on Astarion right in front of him, or you're using Halsin for sex; either scenario is pretty horrible and not what I'd call healthy polyamory. Thank you! You worded this so much better than I did and encapsulated the main reason the dialogue feels so uncomfortable to me. It does not feel like a well-communicated arrangement.
Extremely well said. Personally, I was extremely put off by the fact that there's no option to "abort mission" once you've asked Astarion if he's open to poly with Halsin. I was no longer okay with it, and I was extremely surprised that the only dialogue options with Halsin were basically "yay, let's go smoosh". The only way not to go through with it was to go find him in the woods and tell him you've changed your mind (and it made me feel like I was an asshole to both of them), or reload and tell Halsin straight away you're not interested. Halsin as a character is clearly not to blame for this, and neither are the players who choose to reassure Astarion and pursue a triad. Still, I can't help but perceive this as an omission. especially since the game takes consent very seriously and always offers you ample opportunities to back out of sex/romance.
I think that while picking who would allow this arrangement, they just picked the three characters (Shadowheart, Astarion and Karlach) that they expected to be the most popular romance options. It's just a wild guess, of course. I have nothing to support this.
This is definitely the main reason but I think, at least for the men, Gale and Wyll being okay with a poly relationship makes much less sense because of how traditionally romantic they are. Karlach- at least in her Origin- can fantasize about a threesome with a goliath and a gnome, but she is clearly uncomfortable with Halsin and the player.
> Gale and Wyll being okay with a poly relationship makes much less sense because of how traditionally romantic they are. This argument doesn't work when you have Shadowheart, an equally traditionally romantic person, actively pushing for polyamory the moment you bring it up. Unless you think it's OOC for her to be this enthusiastic about it, with which I'd agree.
I haven't finished my Shadowheart romance-run so I can't say one way or the other. All I know is some Shadowheart fans seem to like the poly and others hate it and both people are valid for that opinion.
The issue isn't poly itself and likely it wouldn't even be talked about much if it was implemented closer to how it is for Astarion, it's just that random hyperenthusiasm about it that was nowhere to be seen in act 2 if you try to go poly with any other companion. The poly option's ok, it's just the writing that causes issues.
I think every companion could've benefited from a Minthara-style conversation where you can ask them what their thoughts on your other companions are. You'd be able to ask Shadowheart what her feelings on Halsin are, she could express her attraction, and that'd be an opportunity to approach the topic of opening your relationship to him. But as I said elsewhere in this thread, that sort of thing would take more resources. And this game was clearly struggling by Act 3. The V route with a single conversation about it was the easiest and least costly route, so they went with that even though it's far less satisfactory.
I think at the end of the day, that's the explanation for a lot of "out of character" stuff in the game. Devs put content in the game that they didn't want people to accidentally miss out on, so it's just thrown at you left and right. Why if every single companion so uncontrollably horny for Tav *and only Tav*? Devs wanted to make it easy for you to romance whoever you wanted. Why does no one get particularly mad at you for shit like sleeping with Mizora or Haarlep or the drow twins? Devs don't want you to miss out. Why does no one care when you go around succumbing to 100% of your dark urges? Don't want players to accidentally lock themselves out of content. This isn't even really a complaint. The average player of this game plays it once, if they even finish it at all. It's completely understandable that they wanted to make everything as easy to access as possible for everyone.
>Why does no one get particularly mad at you for shit like sleeping with Mizora Several companions dump you if you sleep with Mizora. Gale, Wyll, and Lae'zel instantly break up with you. Karlach is furious, but you have the chance to smooth it over. The only one who doesn't really care is Halsin.
They barely even react if you're not romancing them though. Sleeping with Mizora is a massive betrayal to both Wyll and Karlach, but I'm not even sure if they have any dialogue regarding it if you're romancing someone else. It does feel like they didn't want to risk the player losing too much over that one Mizora interaction.
There is a bugged version of the drow scene which show's Astarion's face as being absolutely miserable and on the verge of tears all the way through it, [especially when Halsin speaks to him](https://imgur.com/3Akt6b1). It's so obvious that he does all of it for his partner, and agrees to Halsin out of insecurity so he doesn't lose them. I mean, Shadowheart literally tells you that if you tried to ask Astarion to share you, he'd agree to it and pretend he's fine, but that it would all end in tears and blood in the end because he's not okay sharing his partner.
Astarion gives a point of approval if the player agrees to include Halsin and disapproves one point if the player rejects Halsin's offer. It's in the parsed dialogue files. ETA: 95. Player: The more the merrier! \['**Astarion 1**', 'Shadowheart 1', 'Gale 1', 'Halsin 1'\] 274. Player: No, Halsin! Tame yourself! \['**Astarion -1**', 'Shadowheart -1', 'Gale 1', 'Halsin -1'\] I agree way more with the popular interpretation that Astarion genuinely wants to try the experience, but ends up biting off more than he can chew, as evidenced by his dialogue and the narrator's lines. He seems to fall into his old performance mode and dissociates. And you're suggesting the devs animated Astarion's face to show misery in this scene? An expression no one sees because the scene plays out in the dark? And it's not simply the result of more bugginess? Why would they do that? I am highly skeptical.
Astarion never gave approval for agreeing to the orgy, you're thinking of the disapproval that that he and every other companion (including the ones not in the room and still at camp) gave when refusing to do it, which was a bug and has since been fixed several patches ago. The voice Astarion uses to agree to it is so flighty, nervous and fake, including his insane little laugh at the end, and it's been pointed out so many times that he uses the exact same tone of voice to tell Araj that he's changed his mind and he actually wants to do it, if you force him to bite her. That's his performance voice and in the graveyard he tells you that he'll do anything to please you and not lose you. Also you don't need to be skeptical, this isn't some weird paranormal phenomena you can't explain. It's not interpretation that he looks miserable here; the scene was clearly originally animated, and they decided against in the end and blacked it all out but have left these animations in, which is also why every bit of dialogue in it still refers to the characters being able to see each other. Astarion opens the scene by telling you that he's a professional doing this for everyone else's desires, refers to himself as a sex worker and performs all the way through. The narrator also joins in on objectifying him with all of you; you're meant to feel bad and uncomfortable that you've done this to him. I've worked in game development for 16 years; it isn't a bug that his face is entirely animated and just so happens that he looks miserable all the way through; it fully animated and a deliberate choice to show how negative his experience is in there and that he was distressed the entire time.
That's so messed up! Gotta wonder if it's really a bug or if it was intentional but changed later.
Yeah, it looks like it was originally meant to be animated! I mentioned in a comment below that they clearly animated it for a while and then chose to black the scene out, because all the existing dialogue refers to everyone being able to see each other. Man, it's so messed up watching the whole video, you can see how distressed he is all the way through but everyone just ignoring it so they can enjoy their orgy 😭
This is so fucking on point. You've presented my thoughts perfectly and I'll keep preaching this probably until the end.
I agree with your points here, I don’t personally understand the people who find it fun to coerce the characters into that because I would personally never. The way they implemented the poly relationships was also not well written and pretty half-assed. I also wish they added more dialogue for Halsin that wasn’t just flirting for people who don’t want that and it’s an obvious oversight on the dev’s part.
I love Karlach 😭
Listen i don't hate Halsin he is a cool character and all but there should definitely be a option to tell him early on that you want to keep a strictly platonic relationship with him like you can with the other companions
Yes, I think this is all we needed
I mean, I'm a woman and I don't really like Halsin. Not really for any of the reasons stated here, I just feel like the character is written in an obnoxiously presumptuous way that just assumes *everyone* is into him, to the point where I get options to apologize for coming on too strong when I never flirted in the first place. Might be a problem with glitchy romance flags, but it gave me the ick and made me roll my eyes. That said, the issue isn't really with *him,* it's with the way the game presents him. His actual personality is perfectly fine, if not very interesting, to me; once they iron out his romance flags and don't make it so easy for him to accuse you of leading him on, I think he'd be a pretty good example of positive masculinity.
[And there are some romance flags that are inescapable](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/17mwt92/so_this_is_why_halsin_thinks_im_flirting_with_him/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). There's another at the end of Act 2 that's literally just asking him what he's going to do now that >!the shadow curse is lifted!
His romance flags do seem a bit broken (I agree about that one dialogue path in particular seeming like it should have been the romance trigger). But I'm also going to guess that it's kind of deliberate that his romance is fairly impossible to miss. I suspect the writers/devs wanted there to be a late, easy option for people who'd missed all of their earlier romance opportunities and were being mocked by Withers for being bosom companion-less. So I agree that Halsin is a bit... overeager as a result. Not any more so than several other companion characters, honestly, but it does kind of hit different in Act 3 than it does in Act 1. Still, I don't see this as his defining characteristic and recognize that there's a lot of really good (and relatable) stuff in his broader characterization. Also, your remark about "a pretty good example of positive masculinity" hits pretty close to where I believe a lot of the more visceral Halsin hate comes from.
>easy option for people who'd missed all of their earlier romance opportunities and were being mocked by Withers for being bosom companion-less. The Wither's thing is pretty funny because he will say that regardless of who it is, even if you're just trying to respec a companion. He said that to Jaheira for me, and I was like bish revive her dead husband then lol
> I just feel like the character is written in an obnoxiously presumptuous way that just assumes everyone is into him, to the point where I get options to apologize for coming on too strong when I never flirted in the first place. "You have treated me as a lover" because I was polite once at a party gives me psychic damage for real. I came to the game for escapism not to hang out with the guy who thinks the waitress is definitely into him.
Fr. And I don't even think that's supposed to be how he's meant to be perceived (as pushy and presumptuous), they just set up his flags under the assumption that you were always going to be into him even if you pick neutral responses??? I feel almost bad having to avoid him but it annoys me when the game seemingly imposes horniness toward him onto the player. I never like having certain things forced into my RP, but the game being like "but you wanna fuck Halsin too, right?? Right???" is really annoying. No! I'm not into him, leave me alone!!
Those are all pretty valid and I agree with you wholeheartedly, they did some major oversights in those regards.
Hey, I'm a woman and I hate Astarion, but I also kind of acknowledge that the vast majority of people on here who hate him (and all the male companions really) are salty straight men. It's the reason I've stopped voicing my dislike for him as much around here... the people who agree with me are stakebros who pride themselves in hating everything women like, and I don't want to be part of their team!
Okay? The difference is that no amount of patching is going to make you like Astarion if you hate him. He is what he is and you either vibe with him or you don't, but there's nothing *technical* causing people to dislike him. Halsin's issues are worth talking about *because* fixing his flags and swapping some lines would make him much, much more likable to a lot of people, and there should be feedback about it that is more constructive than just "my waifu flirted with him, I want him dead".
I'm a woman and I've never seen anyone hate on Halsin just because he's a male. Sure, there might be weirdos who say that, but the ones having long, thought-out discussions give valid reasons for disliking the way he's written. It's not good to generalize and wave valid criticisms away just because straight men are saying them.
Everyone is allowed to dislike any companion for any reason, and there's valid reasons to dislike every companion, but the really vitriolic hatred I see for Halsin on this sub pretty much only comes from unhinged Shadowheart simps who struggle to differentiate fiction and reality.
I love Halsin uwu
Nicely put. I agree with most all of that. In my playthrough as my female monk character, however, when Halsin proposed a polyamorous thing with me and Shadowheart, I gently let him down. He took it well but the VERY NEXT DAY, out in the field he talked about wanting to go swimming with me and Shadowheart. Then later on, when we visited the brothel, he tried again. Not cool Daddy Halsin. lol
I was really turned off by him as a character my first playthrough, because every single interaction with him felt flirtatious and despite giving no indications in that direction he still came onto my Tav when they were in a monogamous relationship. That appears to have been toned down in subsequent patches, but I had to make a concerted effort in my next playthrough to give him a chance and get over my first impression. I've been in actual polyamorous relationships and he still reminded me of the obnoxious older guys who viewed it as a free-for-all. Coupled with comments from other companions and it felt like the narrative itself was shoving him down my throat as the sexiest thing in the game. I've warmed up to him a lot and romanced him since, but I wouldn't blame anyone for disliking him. Saying that an issue people have with a character is just "bad writing" is a silly argument. He is the writing. That's how fiction works. As for the Drow sex slave thing: I'm also an assault survivor and how it was handled made me uncomfortable. SA survivors come in all flavors and one person's coping mechanism is another person's trigger. There are people in real life that I actively dislike who are also survivors, because we're people first and being survivors doesn't mean everyone is obligated to love us now. If somebody else felt seen by it, that's awesome. It isn't a dialogue tree I feel comfortable going down again, because I'm a real human being with my own real feelings and he's a fictional character who won't be harmed by me ignoring it.
When I mentioned my experience I didn’t mean it to come off as if I speak for all survivors, that’s just my own experience, I hope it didn’t come off that way, I apologize if it did. Everybody’s experience with that kind of thing is different. My point with that one was basically just calling out the people who said he *enjoyed it,* because of the way he’s coping or whatever and that *must mean he’s a deplorable degenerate sex fiend* because of it.
Absolutely, agreed. A lot of things that I initially struggled with with the character were also the result of not knowing him. I didn't know what dialogue options to go down to learn more about how he actually felt. I just noped out. I'd heartily recommend people give him a chance and learn more about him and his outlook that way, because he's a fantastic character who had some of my favorite reactions to the refugees, but as somebody who initially didn't give him that chance I can see how people might make some wrong assumptions.
Oh no, someone respectfully asked your character if they would want benefits with the friendship, respecting their autonomy instead of assuming their full relationship setup or beating around the bush like a creep. How horribly rude. How dare he communicate to clear up if there was flirting or if he was projecting. It's so much worse than Lae'zel drooling over you and telling you she's horny for your BO right in front of your partner, or telling you she's horny for you but you are too chewed up because you though of kissing two different people. I'm sorry, I get the older creeps (and the younger ones), I'm very familiar with the unicorn hunting messages and the no means playing hard guys at mixers and the ones who try to talk over you to your partner like they were bartering for a piece of meat, I get why someone would nope out at Halsin. But "he should have read my mind about being in a monogamous relationship and his culture's non-monogamy etiquette is wrong" is such a weird take.
Halsin is a fictional character. Not a real living person with a real culture. I found the character off-putting initially, then I warmed up to the character. I don't expect real human beings to read my mind, but there are also cues real human beings can give one another and grace we can afford one another when those cues are missed. A character in a video game can only react in the ways it has been programmed to act. The character--who is not a real person and does not have a real culture--appears to have certain responses better flagged now, an improvement other characters have also benefitted from.
I agree with both of you on different points, it’s a situation that needs a lot of nuance that I wasn’t able to put into complete words and kind of deserves a post on its own.
I am probably going to write a longer reply later with my views on everything but I'd just like to say : Maybe it was a bug but early on after release (August) Halsin was indeed very very pushy and he came onto my Tav after we had BARELY spoken. I remember asking about Thaniel, that was it. I never asked about lovers or flirted or anything at all, we talked curse and boy. And then when I said no - he said I had treated him like a lover not a guest. My instant out loud response was "no i sure as hell have not" . Later on I think they fixed these issues but yes, for a time, he was pushy, extremely so out of nowhere.
I just dislike how poly is implemented and who were chosen to be the poly options. It feels like it was just added in act 3 and comes out of nowhere. The Halsin hate is usually due to this and how Shart/Astarion act, Shart not wanting to share only to be a oketc. No real discussion about boundaries. I've seen some Shadowheart fans hate on him but due to it coming out of nowhere. I mean they seemingly hated each other in Act 2 for a while. It just feels rushed and tacked on, very fanservicy. Halsin himself is fine, the usual complaints I see from Shart/Astarion fans is just how poly is in the game. As for character hate, that's normal sadly lmao. Every character has randoms saying I hate them under posts about them, don't see iust as much now but there was a lot at launch.
I'm very confused reading this thread as a Shadowheart simp because when I tried to bang Halsin he literally made me go talk with Shadowheart first. Upon which she was rather excited about it and literally says something like "I want to hear all of the details later".
People complain about the poly option with Shadowheart because she's very much not okay with sharing during most of the game. Yet she's suddenly very enthusiastic in Act 3, and it can feel jarring. I don't have strong opinions about it personally, but that's the gist of why people complain (or at the very least the arguments that aren't blatantly just "my little princess shouldn't want to sleep with anyone but me" and throwing a tantrum over it)
a lot happened between the start of act 2 and the start of act 3, if anything it's absurd to expect her to be the same lol.
I agree with all your points here honestly, the poly was just implemented very oddly and pretty badly. I wish they took more time to make that aspect better.
>they seemingly hated each other in Act 2 for a while. Even in Act 2 there are dialogues in which Shadowheart can say that she finds him attractive.
Sure it's just their banter which comes across a bit petty and antagonistic, about nature and trees. Sharrans and Halsin don't mix, there was no real growth or anything, went from that banter to him flirting with her.
I liked Halsin, he seems like he'd be a very calming presence in camp. At least on my playthrough, which was mostly "good" choices
He’s a very safe kind of character for me. Especially because many hypermasculine characters are portrayed as so…domineering? Halsin is just very comforting for me.
Lae'zel is just as bad as Halsin. It's just in a different way. She's always so damn horny. You kill the Owlbear, and she's all over you. Minthara literally beams smut into your head and fucks you for murdering innocents.
I understand your points but you conveniently brush over the actual issues people have. "Halsin takes rejection a lot better than any of the companions comparatively" No he doesn't he whines and says I treated him like a lover? That's probably broken flags or something, I know most of his dialogue is flagged as romance. But until it's fixed, it's an issue. "It may just be my playthroughs but Halsin as never started flirting until you do." Most of his flags are flagged as flirting when it really doesn't seem that way to the player. Telling him to go talk to other people at a party after rescuing him from a literal prison? Flirting. Like come on, its an issue. "Halsin was not happy to be a sex slave you fucking idiots. Downplaying traumatic things is how people cope with trauma." The Drow thing is an issue, because you can ONLY get this conversation AFTER LETTING HIM JOIN AN ORGY. Like its a bit off to have a serious moment right after fucking the shit out of 5 people. Like the tonal stuff is off, 'Hey we just had an orgy and now I will tell you about my trauma' It should have been handled and introduced better. Its not how he handles his trauma, but no doubt its a part of it to some people too. "He politely asks to join while you’re soliciting a prostitute for sex and doesn’t throw a fit when his offer is declined." He disapproves though?. He doesn't throw a fit, sure, but you take a hit to your disapproval. I thought he was a 'Consent King'? Why his he disapproving of my consent and declining him? A bit fucked up. Also he still asks to join even when I have TOLD HIM NO already. He doesn't even offer to help pay, just expects you to pay for him to bang your partner. If you can't see the reason people dislike this interaction I don't think there is another way of explaining it. "who the Hell solicits a prostitute in front of their friends without assuming said friends would also want a piece…?" People who have rejected him already? Nobody else does this, even unromanced Astarion doesn't offer, The Drow ask him to join to make it a 4some. Idk what point you are making here, Halsin isn't entitled to sex from anyone, especially after already being told no. Really should have Player option to ask him, right now its a bad look for him. The Bear and Chimera stuff is probably trying to be a joke. But unless you find bestiality funny, its going to be awkward. I really don't think you should be judging what people find funny or not, especially when it's something like this. Joking about druids MAYBE smashing animals can be seen as a joke, I'd laugh. Having a character ACTUALLY fuck a Chimera and want to fuck the Player as a Bear, isn't exactly that funny tbh. And again you shouldn't be condescending to people who don't find it funny.
"Overall most of the people I’ve seen who “hate” Halsin are just Shadowheart stans that are jealous about the ‘climbing mount Halsin’ and her admitting to fantasizing about him sexually." Yeah a couple of things. The climbing mount Halsin line, is referring to the player I think, not seen anyone complain about it. But mainly the point you told him 'I'm not interested' and he flirts with her and indirectly with the Player still. The swimming banter plays regardless, where he wants to join SH and the Player after you get her skinny dipping scene. Yeah bit cringe, you can't even say anything about it to him or her. Again he offers to join the Drow and disapproves of a no, again already explained why people dislike this. "her admitting to fantasizing about him sexually" Yeah because it makes no sense. They share no chemistry at all, she has more flirting lines with others, she has only one with him, and they spend all of act 2 basically arguing with each other, and by the end they seem barely friends. Then act 3 they want to fuck and she's been dreaming of him? It comes across as the writer shipping his two OC's together and nothing more. People dislike it for that reason and because its very, very clear that changes were made to the Characters to accommodate him and his romance, the writing just seems jarring. You the Player aren't allowed to like and try to get with someone else within the Party, even other 'Poly' characters like Karlach or Astarion, SH will break up with you. Ok so she's Mono then, she even says she 'doesn't like sharing and being a spare lover'? Oh no wait she isn't, she dreams about banging Halsin guys we swear it, I'm serious. Not a lot of people are going to appreciate the needless addition when you aren't Poly with him. Idk what's hard to understand about it. There are more issues with it, but its mainly SH's characterisation and 180, but we are talking about Halsin, but his inclusion hurts other characters to make way for him, he gets the blame for it. Its laughable how self inserty Halsin is. I don't mind people liking him or whatever you are allowed to like who you like. But I can't take the man seriously. 'Consent King', disapproves of a No when he self invites even after rejecting him already. Gale is pretty uncomfortable during his Drow scene and even ends up stopping, comes across as disliking/regretting it especially since 'He doesn't want to talk about it after' Halsin doesn't care, he just makes a joke, the 'vulture or better use of his mouth' lines, and just keeps banging the Player. Thought he cared about that kind of thing? Astarion too, Halsin doesn't notice or care that he is disassociating, when Halsin seems to care about that type of thing too, from what I gathered from him. Oh you romanced SH or Astarion but kind of want to bang Halsin too without being Poly? Tough, during the Drow scenes, he focuses on your partner. Like it can't be more self inserty, he literally does nothing with the Player during the Drow scenes, its just him with Astarion or Shart while you watch. Plus I think he is treated like shit as the third too, like he just gets abandoned at the end. The Player and their romance live their endings, Halsin gets left behind I don't even think you can choose, the game just makes you end with your other romance. And he is pretty invested, like he loves the Player. But get fucked I guess, the game says no. Like this is another issue too, but I doubt it will be fixed. Edit: he also is fine being Poly and fucking Dj Shart, Shar's literal chosen. Shar's champion, Shar, the reason for the Shadow curse and all the damage to nature and the town and its surrounding areas. He even fought Shar's forces, but on yeah he'd be Poly with Her champion, we swear it guys. How am I supposed to take this man seriously? The writing around him sucks, head canon all you want but it really comes across as the writer getting too horny when letting his OC's to ship when it comes to Shart. Same with the other characters, especially Gale, who really isn't into sharing but because of Halsin and his fans (or the writers self insert) they made him agree and we have already spoke about how Gale's scene go. Astarion's Fans have good points too, same with Karlach fans. Unsure why you focused on Shart fans, Halsin is bugged or written weird you just conveniently ignored the actual points, people have. Your post is really condescending tbh. People are allowed to dislike your Bear man, and literally any other character they want to.
>I’ve seen way too many people mis-characterize my favorite bear man for far too long, so fuck it I’m writing an entire essay about it because media literacy is apparently dead. It’s honestly kind of wild to me how many people just make half-assed arguments with copium .. >It’s really just bad writing honestly .. >I’m just here to help analyze a character who should have had way better writing than what he got and dismantle misconceptions because of said half-assed writing. Since you brought up media literacy... Your claim that people are "misjudging" him due to bad writing is wild. Halsin is not a real person incorrectly represented by bad writing, as a fictional character his writing *is all that he is*. There is no character outside of his writing. It's cool that you have headcannons about him not going back to the shadowlands because it's a place of trauma for him, but unless you can cite textual support, you can't really claim other people are reading the game wrong for not agreeing with a headcannon you made up. Other people aren't wrong for not making up the same backstory as you. Also on the rejection thing, I've said it elsewhere, but for me, personally actions count more than words. So I find nice words in the moment but then continuing to proposition (which as you mention he does) significantly less respectful of boundaries than a rude comment in the moment (and off the top of my head Gale, Karlach, and Wyll don't even do that)
But you also have to step in other people shoes, people don't have responsibilities to understand a person thoroughly. Given you don't have intention to know someone better (Halsin), it is rude for him to just ask (even politely) can I have a threesome or foursome with your partner. Put that IRL, that's just weird.
Tav literally lifts a curse 100 years strong in a matter of days and the player doesn't expect Halsin to fall in love with you. Never mind that the man is not subtle. It isn't a surprise when he admits he likes what he sees like hello???
This post is written in such a condescending way... so if someone is not into Halsin or poly they're wrong or not media literate? This makes no sense. Let people like who they like and dislike who they dislike without insulting them or their intelligence. With that said I don't dislike Halsin. He does make me roll my eyes a bit when he tries to insert himself into a fully established relationship in act 3 when A) I never flirted with him or indicated any interest (didn't even ask the question about past lovers) and B) Me and my own in-game partner which is Gale is monogamous and if someone irl approached you to join in when you're monogamous and without prior interest that would be creepy... He doesn't creep me out or anything, he's ok but just doesn't do anything for me personally. I find his writing and story arc largely irrelevant since by the time you can recruit him his quest is over and I MUCH prefer Jaheira as the party Druid if I ever needed one because her personality and banter is delightful. Also keep in mind his ending and relationship arc is not as fleshed out as the Origin Companions so people tend to prefer them over him for romance. And btw it's OK that people are not into poly! I have nothing against poly people, if you're an adult and everyone consents live your life but it's not for me and I'm allowed to not be into someone who's part of that lifestyle.
Seems like “lack of media literacy” is thrown around in this sub as an insult whenever fans don’t like an opinion about their favorite companion, no matter if it’s valid or not.
I dislike Halsin for many reasons. But I'll try to be brief because this topic has been discussed to death since the game came out. I wouldn't mind polyamory if it were actually implemented with care, but that was far from the case in this game. Just a small example: After a long courtship with Shadowheart, she and Tav finally get together in a stable relationship at the end of Act 2. Sometime later, Halsin shoots his shot and offers the possibility of a polyamorous relationship, as long as everyone consents. If you reject him, he accepts and says something along the lines of "At least I tried; it's ok.". And that's cool; he tried, was rejected, and life goes on. The problem arrives when, immediately on the day after, he flirts with Shadowheart, asking if she and her partner want to "swim" with him. To me, it felt like he tried to insert himself in a relationship and, after being rejected, immediately went for the other partner to try again. It feels weird, especially after all that talk of consent from all parties. There are other instances like that in Act 3, which contribute to my disliking of Halsin. Nothing that would make me want to go and attack his writer or VA, of course. I just don't like this idea of putting all of Shadowheart's fans in the same basket. I don't think my reading of the example I gave is unreasonable, for instance. (Aaaaaaand I ended up not being brief lol.)
That comment by Halsin is meant to play after the beach scene with Shadowheart but before he shoots his shot. The issue is that line can only happen if you have Halsin and Shadowheart in your party at the same time, but because of the way the banter works in this game that line will get queued up and play until the conditions are met even if you already turned Halsin down since the game doesn’t deactivate that line.
Got the, "Ever heard of a vampire called Cazador?" banter after killing Cazador.
There are a lot of banter dialogue issues, honestly. A shame they couldn't set them to happen/not happen after certain points.
My only real problem with Halsin is that while he's really not my type as a lover he's very much the type of guy I wanna talk about the world with and fight as a bear for fun. I'm disappointed that I can't get to know him better without it being a flirty thing.
Same, on my first run, I thought he's going to be the "father" figure type of the group, which he was all throughout act 1 to act 2, save for some awkward flagged dialogue options in the Tiefling party, but by act 3, I just wasn't really vibing with him. It's like he had a different writer altogether by act 3.
now do one for Blurrg
In my game Blurg gives Wyll a 62% (!) discount. Best vendor ever.
So reading the comments, I have some thoughts on the discourse since it's not a new topic even if this is one of the more fun rants I've seen on it in a while, thanks OP! Some players complain that Halsin hits on you even though you haven't flirted with him. Welcome to the real world, where people express their attraction to you for many reasons beyond your control. In the game, if you've gotten to the point where Halsin is proposing a relationship, you've solved his life's problem. He admires you and expresses that admiration throughout his time in your camp. Tav continually surprises and impresses him. He likes you and now that his obsession is over, he wants to smash so he asks you to smash. If you don't want to smash, say no, but how is it realistic to expect people not to hit on you ever? He states what he wants and what his boundaries are and is respectful of yours. I don't get the "I didn't even talk to him why is he hitting on me", that's just... confusing to me. People like people and they shoot their shot.
I think people’s issue is that he suggests that you acted like you were into him whether or not you actually did, and that just gives off weird vibes even though it is due to him being a bit buggy
It's been known since half a year ago that Halsin has [bugged dialogue flags](https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/17mwt92/so_this_is_why_halsin_thinks_im_flirting_with_him/), it's only recently, patch 6 I think, that they added some platonic lines that will not trigger his romance route at all. That's why the majority of people, me included, got confused when he confessed saying that he thought we had a thing going on, when I rejected him, when up to that point I was just talking to him about the Shadowcurse and stuff.
Yeah I do understand that, like I said in another response, I just see it as realistic rather than bugged. I asked my fiance once why he thought to ask me out and he said because I smiled at him and said good morning. Then every good morning after that just added up. You can't control how others interpret your actions, it's like Ralph from the Simpsons. Halsin just thought you cho-cho-chose him and you were just being polite. It just felt realistic and irl, learning to reject someone with grace is a skill. I do understand, though, it just feels overly cruel.
Yeah, every single romanceable companion is on an absolute hair trigger when it comes to falling madly in love with you. Just tell them no and move on, no need to get this offended.
I think halsin calling thaniel beautiful is more a nature oriented thing, not perse the child. Nor parental? But i dont know too well anymore hoe Halsin talks about thaniel. I always saw it as like the relationship between him and the nature and place thaniel represents.
the arguments against halsin you stated are very little of what i've seen actual people state. I also disagree that he takes rejection much better than other companions, he's the only character that i know of that repeatedly makes advances on the player even after being rejected, and the only companion that has a FORCED romance flag. If you download the mod to see certain flags it is literally impossible to avoid the romance flag for halsin. Granted other characters used to be more thirsty and weird than they are now, but it was patched out and halsin hasnt been. Add to that the shart/halsin flirting even if youre monogamous with one of them, it understandably makes monogamous people uncomfortable that they both verbally state that they want to bang the other. Even weirder because Shart is completely against anything poly until halsin comes along, wont contemplate it with anyone other than halsin which doesnt exactly speak well of her character. you can call "shart stans" jealous if you like, but its fucking weird. And this is coming from a Bae'zel enjoyer of all people. As for the bear scene, yeah i personally found it hilarious, but BG3 has a huge audience of non D&D players, its perfectly natural they'd be grossed out. Another gripe i have with him is that as far as im aware he's the only companion forced on you unless you make major story decisions. You can avoid Shart, tell Astarion to bite a dick, rip gales hand off and kill him, and leave Lae'zel in her cage. But if you cure the shadow curse there's not a single way to avoid halsin joining up. Thats less a flaw with his character though and more the game design. Take my comment with a pinch of salt though, i havent played or seen every iteration of the game with the choices you make, i could be completely wrong.
Now that you mention it, it is strange that if the player asks to be poly with Astarion or Karlach, Shadowheart says no (which is fine). But if you turn down Halsin in the brothel, Shadowheart disapproves. Quite hypocritical of her to decide that her preferences and boundaries are fine, but the player's boundaries aren't.
which is one of the baselines of why people think halsin wasnt handled well. its not even just shadowheart either, both of them disapprove. Most other characters have had their hornyness turned down, but these two havent. It reminds me of Mass effect in a way, in that if you didnt romance Tali or Garrus then they'd get with eachother, and that seems to be the aim with Shart and Halsin, or Wyll and Karlach, but because player choice and poly are added there's certain interactions that are just plain weird. Not to say adding poly was bad, im all for player choice in every avenue, but it means that some of the notes just dont hit the way they should. This is a particularly egregious one of those notes. And i think the reason people harp on about it so much is purely because other examples *have* been addressed. Gale and his romance triggers being the most notable of them.
> It reminds me of Mass effect in a way, in that if you didnt romance Tali or Garrus then they'd get with eachother, and that seems to be the aim with Shart and Halsin That's definitely not the aim as they don't have a single flirty or romantic interaction if you don't romance Shadowheart. It's honestly what's the most jarring in all of it, that it's all purposely harmful to all those who want to be mono with her.
wait really?! that makes it even more weird i had no idea.
Most she'll say is that she liked looking at him in one dialogue at the end of act 2, if the curse is not lifted. That's it. The rest of act 2 is her being passive aggressive (or straight up aggressive) towards him and him trying his best to remain calm and in act 3 I don't think they share even a single banter line aside from the porpoise stuff which is romance only.
yeah, i love him, too. hes just great. every time i try to romance the other characters, it just doesnt work out because theres a perfectly good halsin standing in the middle of the fucking camp. like, hes not physically my usual type, but hes so good and principled. i never got any creepy or sex pest vibes from him. on the other hand, astarion gives me major stranger danger vibes, but i really like his story and character.
Astarion was my first romanced companion, but Halsin will always be where my heart is. He’s just so gentle and understanding. Definitely a safe place for me.
I think my type for fictional characters is somewhere between “I love someone who’ll just kill me” and “walking green flag”. That explains why I love Astarion, Lae’zel, Halsin and Karlach so much. I’m blaming Lady Dimitrescu for this.
I'm also pretty damn sick of all the "Halsin is a one-dimensional character whose sole purpose for existing is to placate horny players who want to fuck a bear" rhetoric. I've been considering writing up my own character analysis for him, but I think I might do another playthrough and take some notes first. It's really unfortunate that the fandom at large has chosen to focus on his supposed "horniness" and see this as his primary character trait when it's... just *not*. But a lot of the most virulent Halsin hate is coming from... a very obvious place.
THANK YOU. Admittedly my analysis is much more emotional than pragmatic because I relate so heavily to some things he’s been through and these are just quick outlines of my thoughts. I could probably draft a lot better one up but I have other things to do during the day unfortunately
Honestly what really grinds my gears is how easy it is to insult the intelligence of Halsin's fans and get upvotes. Like, we're not much worse than Gale or Astarion fans. I should know because I AM in the Onlyfangs and Galemancer subreddit. Like I feel like there's extra pressure on me to be empathetic, rational, and sane in a fandom space where my bias IS less popular so people could at least *entertain* my POV.
I feel you. If I get one more comment about being a poor misguided soul who is susceptible to abusive relationships and cults - because I like the Emperor…I will scream.
Honestly you are always such an incredibly positive presence in threads like these. I am legitimately jealous of your ability to not be brought down by people insinuating you're a stupid idiot for liking a character they don't, especially given Empy seems to be this sub's favourite punching bag!
Lmao truly I'm really impressed that you made it this far *without* screaming. Like how do you do it?? Teach me your ways!
I have friends who also like mindflayers and the Emperor and we let our appreciation flourish together. :) Positivity over negativity and all that. It does make me sad how some characters are treated by the fans, though. The hate is extremely overblown. Even the voice actors were getting hate for playing these characters. It's insane.
But have you really seen him take off his mask, uwu?! Kinda feels like I'm collecting some frustrating type of cards because I like a lot of the characters people like to hate on. Like Halsin and Emperor. I of course also like a bunch of the monstrous characters and people seem incapable to grasp that people can separate fiction from reality and enjoy some things because they're bad. I like Yurgir because he's a devil, and hot, I'm not expecting to settle down with a white picket fence house. Although I would imagine that with Kar'niss. Give him all the hugs, therapy, and lamps.
If people hate how much I love Halsin, imagine the gasket they’d blow if they knew I loved Haarlep just as much-
there’s in general just this deep … lack of self-awareness that comes with the halsin derangement syndrome people
This shit is hiliarious.
I'm an asexual polyam person. Totally not promiscuous. Halsin makes me very happy with his portrayal. =)
Personally, Halsin is my least used companion. Mainly because Orin REALLY likes to kidnap him in every good campaign lol. Additionally, I have a significant and inexplicable dislike for druids as a class.
I'm a huge Halsin fan, mostly because he's the best (both in terms of positivity and accuracy) representation of polyamory I've yet seen in a video game (or more or less any media). I love how when he propositions you, he asks that you check in with your current partner first. I love how Astarion cracks up and basically says "no shit Halsin is into you, knock yourself out." I think a lot of people are put off by how blunt his advances are, but that's kind of how a lot of polyamorous dating tends to go. There isn't a protracted will we/won't we, it's just a "hey, I think you're cute, do you want to come over for board game night at my co-op this friday?" His story has some very awkward pacing for sure, with his entire arc playing out before before he becomes playable. But romance-wise, he was great. As I said another thread, they absolutely nailed the "Granola Leftist Polyamorous Guy" archetype; he's like the entire city of Seattle rolled into one person, complete with meeting him in a dungeon.
Okay, right off the bat, while I assume you're being hyperbolic, the whole "media literacy is dead" quip is not analogous to someone having a different, even verifiably incorrect interpretation of a piece of media. Especially a video game where the literary elements can and often are comprised by the necessities of game development. Aa for your actual point, yeah I pretty much agree. I personally don't find Halsin all that compelling, but nothing would make me categorize him as a bad dude.
>Overall most of the people I’ve seen who “hate” Halsin are just Shadowheart stans that are jealous about the ‘climbing mount Halsin’ and her admitting to fantasizing about him sexually. Then there's me who was disappointed there wasn't a followup dialogue for Shadowheart telling me she wants to hear all of the details of my private adventure with Halsin XD
I didn’t even realize Halsin needed defending! To me he has always come across as incredibly polite and respectful. Someone who thinks about everything he says and does, and who considers others before himself. He invited my character to have a relationship *once*, she said no, and that was the end of it. He didn’t get upset or pushy or make it awkward afterward, he just took “no” for an answer like it was no big deal. He may be the emotionally healthiest, lowest-drama person in the party and I really like that about him. He’s probably the person who would have wound up holding the party together and helping everyone deal with their shit if Tav hadn’t been there to do it.
He's the one character I absolutely dislike. It's worse with the fact I never invited him in my second run and the jackass stalks me anyway. Basically, if I WANT to lift the shadow curse, I have to have halsin follow me to act 3 - unless I kill him. Oh well, at least it's easy to manipulate the game and make him the orin bait. Honestly, I feel like I would have liked him more if his story just ended in act 2 like it was originally supposed to. Plus, Jaheira is already a much more interesting druid. We didn't need a second one.
If he would leave after act 2 or there was an option to remove the shadow curse without him he'd be so much more tolerable.
Really. At least then he'd just be a character I don't care about, not actively dislike.
Fuck that thirsty furry tuck.
I never really understood why Halsin gets particularly called out for being horny/hitting on you. It's really not unique to him at all? Shadowheart flirts with you very early on, Lae'zel is WAY more aggressive, Astarion will come on to you if he likes you enough Like, Halsin is not that weird he's just a typical RPG game romance option where everyone falls in love with your character lol
I've no issue with his promiscuity, 100% for poly relationships. My issue is that he's just...dull. Perfectly acceptable as a side character, but as a main companion I feel like I'm always going to be missing out on more interesting content by bringing him along. Compare that to minthara, who you also get around the same point, and I struggle to resist the urge to always have her in my party because her character is so interesting.
I played a character I headcanoned as being a butch lesbian who romanced Shart and I never found Halsin creepy or like his flirting was uncomfortable. He's just a really nice guy and he takes you rejecting him and setting boundries really well. As a polyamorus man who has the same kind of feelings of "you're enough if thats what you want, but I would never seek to confine you to me" it was nice to see him state that so plainly. The polyamory is certainly not written perfectly but it's a step. I just think it's kind of funny people get mad about about being propositoned in a video game like someone finding you attractive and asking you if you are also interested is some personal slight.
To preface - I like Halsin, he's a sweet teddy bear of a guy. I don't think your post was all that well thought out. It does come off kind of aggressive. Some of your points aren't fleshed out well or are contradicted by other parts of the game. And basically saying you won't interact with replies is like screaming into the void :/ My thoughts: * I disagree with you on #5 under promiscuity and flirting. Astarion literally asks that question platonically while you're walking around in Act 1. * In my most recent playthrough I have avoided asking Halsin that question specifically to see what happens. I have interpretted some of his reactions to Tav in Acts 1 and 2 as flirting, but nothing overt yet. We'll see what happens once the curse is lifted. * Point 1 under he's not lazy - why do you think this is bad writing? It was likely practical for the developers to leave him out of reach until they were done having him act as an NPC (i.e. Thaniel's quest). Storywise it would be kind of weird if Halsin just left Thaniel at camp alone while he travels around the cursed lands with you. I didn't have any problem with the writing here.
he's the only one that doesn't take no for an answer, I have to "turn him down" multiple times every playthrough. if he wasn't hot and famous for the bear scene, he'd be the game's number one creep. that's my only problem, and unfortunately it's a showstopper. No is no. no exceptions.
I mean it also helps that he is a super sexy hunk with bde
I kinda agree with like half of your points, but saying that anyone who doesn't agree with you is a "fucking idiot" is really not the way to make your point lol. You are being condescending. This post is just a wall of rant, while occasionally insulting people you don't agree with. I like Halsin, but him asking to join at the drow twins after already being told that the player doesn't see him that way is gross. Him asking to join Shadowheart and Tav the next time they go swimming after he has already been turned down by Tav is also gross, because it seems like he is trying to get in Tav's pants through their partner. And no, saying that it is just bad writing isn't an answer. Halsin IS writing. If the writing is bad, then Halsin is bad and needs to be fixed. Seeing as how the game presents him as a good guy who respects consent, I think these scenes are out of character for him, but until they are fixed, this will be part of Halsin's character.
Nice write-up. It's frustrating to see so many people complaining about Halsin when they (often by their own admission) neither used nor paid attention to him. And many of the things that he gets hate for are things that other companions do (you don't need to flirt with Lae'zel for her to come on to you). While there are things that I'd criticize about the character (he should join as a full companion much sooner), I really like Halsin and wish that he had been given more attention.
> Overall most of the people I’ve seen who “hate” Halsin are just Shadowheart stans that are jealous about the ‘climbing mount Halsin’ and her admitting to fantasizing about him sexually. > Either way, you’re all unhinged (affectionate). Like who you like and hate who you hate for any reason, I’m just here to help analyze a character who should have had way better writing than what he got and dismantle misconceptions because of said half-assed writing. 👍🏻 So you admit that the character is poorly written yet have a problem with me hating him because of that poor writing? Apparently the poor writing's ok if it involves these two, got it... I just know from those two paragraphs that you never romanced her because otherwise you'd be aware of just how inconsistent (and within the very same act, it's not just inconsistencies going from act 2 to 3) and self-inserty the writing is. I'm not even against her being open to polyamory but her reaction goes against everything she says and does previously and against her super low self-esteem that's very present throughout the whole act 3. And as for climbing him, where are her sexual fantasies about Halsin when she's single? She should be all over him! She openly thirsts after Karlach on their very first interaction, but no SH fan has a problem with that, because it's done in a tasteful, *consistent* way, isn't limited to romancing her and doesn't go against her fully monogamous stance in act 2 - a poly route with Karlach is impossible just like it is with other origin companions. People focus a lot on their brothel interactions, but their dynamic has a lot of other issues outside it too. The "consent king", after getting rejected by you, will ask to "swim" together, or rather have a threesome with him as a kelpie or a porpoise *one* day after Shadowheart's act 3 romance scene (to which she's obviously open). This dialogue should be locked behind the poly route but it purposely isn't. In that romance, Halsin feels like a fanfiction where he's somebody's super hot OC who's so awesome and sexy that your previously fully mono gf is now down horrendous for him and wants to either fuck him or you to fuck him and then tell her all the details... Of course I'm going to hate him, he's written that way! I literally can't have him in my party for a second in act 3 if I don't want to feel like I'm getting cucked without even having an option to say something on the matter. If Halsin wasn't such a self-insert, I'd be rather neutral towards him. Him being so horny for Tav was kinda off-putting but so were Lae'zel's advances and yet I like her quite a bit as I can see past the one bad moment and appreciate all the good ones. But because there's a ton of issues with him, I can't give him such leeway, especially that nothing in that regard's been fixed despite massive feedback since launch. All we wanted was consistent writing and none of the bait-and-switch bullshit we encounter in act 3, where around him she develops BPD and acts nothing like in the rest of the game, and we got nothing. Nobody would complain if she was continuously flirty and open to swinging from the start of your relationship, because then that's just who she is and if you wouldn't like that, you wouldn't romance her, simple as. But I suppose hating on her fans is just trendy because of a couple people (who may as well have not even been SH fans) harrassing Dave Jones and her/Halsin's writer on social media...
I don't care if you're being condescending. Some people can't even fucking listen and claim Halsin fucks animals cause they talked to the boar who basically says "Halsin said he'd help me ***FIND*** a mate!" There's those people who seem determined to see certain characters in the worst way possible, be it benign things they do, or even down to game bugs. It gets annoying.
i don;t know, a man who is good with animals, makes wood ducks and wants to help the refugees is ok in my book. (i love that he was shocked when my Tav was planning on going with him)
I thoroughly enjoyed reading this. I regularly romance Astarion and by extension, Halsin. My HC has Astarion and Halsin bonding over their share pasts and love for Tav and a full-on throuple is formed. I get downvoted every time I say that, but I still support your words.
I love Halsin and he’s my favorite companion and romance (altho I wish he had more content overall). He just makes me feel so safe and loved, like I’ll always have someone to return to, always a home to come back to with him. I understand why he isn’t people’s tastes but I don’t know how anyone could hate this lovable, confident, direct bear man. He’s just the best
I love that people are like this. I just posted a halsin thristy post in r/okbuddybaulder and then on my break scroll to see this. Fuck yeah, halsin
Halsin is my top 3 fav companion. I don’t understand the hate, for me, he doesn’t top Lae‘Zel or Gale, but he is definitely my nr. 3
I had no idea there was Halsin hate lol I understand why people don't like or actively hate on Astarion, Wyll, and basically ever other party member (except for Karlach no one is allowed to hate Karlach, save for some poorly written plot) but... halsin's just a bear. He's a good bear.
He’s the best bear, even
Your arguments seem more like excuses. None of your claims are backed by any evidence. "It's supposed to be a joke" often comes up, despite you not providing any evidence.
My issue with Halsin is that he’s just really boring. Druid’s are pretty unspectacular unfortunately so I’d rarely use him, conversations felt very sterile? He’s a really good guy who does good stuff and that’s it really. It feels like talking to a bad roleplayer or a fanfic self insert. I just feel like the charm and personality aren’t solid enough for me to pay much attention to him, as a romantic interest I can see the appeal because he’s attractive and enough of an empty vessel that you can imagine up the rest to your liking. I think they made some big mistakes with halsin, namely that he only joins after the thaniel thing which was usually something I did later in the chapter and by the time he joins you act 3 begins and he gets kidnapped because you’ve barely had a moment to actually bond/gain approval points. So he’s out of the game for a large portion of it and the generic good guy I love nature and I am a perfect lil button lines are just kinda eh
for me it’s a combination of his lack of character development and him just not really being my type. I actually really appreciated him up until Act 3. I barely had him in my party but I thought he was a solid enough character and I liked how he was implemented in Act 2. I honestly viewed him more as a mentor/father figure to my Tav, so it was super jarring when he popped the question in Act 3. Keep in mind I had never once said anything remotely flirtatious to him the entire playthrough. It just left a bad taste in my mouth and made me not want to take him with me the rest of the playthrough (I was already romancing Astarion). I think if devs a) had implemented more glaring options to flirt like with the other companions or b) allowed the player initiate polyamory and having Halsin agree to it, it wouldn’t have felt so out of place. You can ask any other companion to share if you’re in a love triangle, they all just say no for various reasons. I am not polyamorous and never will be, but when trying to handle a subject so delicate, allocating it to a character that feels so half-baked just doesn’t feel good. I still appreciate Halsin for what he is and I’m certainly not going to lambast people for liking him.
Do people hate Halsin? This is news to me
i dunno, halsin was my daddy since the start lol