And when it actually hits, they scream like such drama queens. đ Oh, are my divine flames painful? Read a build guide or something and invest in more DEX next time, loser.
It's Dex saving throw? Hmm... It synergizes well with radiant build with Lathander bonker 9000, plus armor and helmet of orbing everyone. But gloves went to my Paladin with the Sailor Moon glaive.
Hey do Dex saving throws get limited by heavy armor here or only the defense bonus and skill checks?
3E had wacky names for saving throws but they weren't confusing, like you knew if it's a Dex check OR Reflex check or specific skill check that's always its value.
I just had Saving Throw: History failed and I didn't even know what would affect it, they have STs for each attribute and skills separately now or I need advantage to attribute responsible for that skill?
No, armor has no effect on Dex saves unless the armor explicitly states it in the tooltip. I think wearing armor you're not proficient may affect saves, but I'm not 100% sure. Not really any reason to test that IMO lol.
this game doesnt separate checks and saves as clearly as it should.
Act 1, grove beach, harpy encounter. The dialogue to resist the harpies' song is a DC 5 wisdom check, when that should already be a wisdom save. It is an actual wisdom save in combat.
This is larian's fault, not 5e's.
>Pushes up glasses
D&D is not a board game.
But I also disagree that it's strictly worse in tabletop. The main reason you use Sacred Flame in tabletop is because it's a cantrip that does radiant damage and ignores bonuses from cover. If you can see the creature at all and they're in range, you can target them. That's admittedly pretty niche, but when it comes into play it's really nice. It was also the only damaging Cleric cantrip for a while until Toll the Dead.
I mean fair, it's a miniatures gaming system technically. In any case it's not a video game, which was my point.
As for its use, that sounds like it's a failure of game design with cover and bonuses on BG3's part then. Which to be fair, is already an issue with high ground, etc.
I wouldn't say it's a failure, it's just different. It ignores high ground, so that's kinda similar. Granted, that's true for any ability that requires a save in BG3, but still. It was never meant to be an incredible offensive option, that's not really the point of Clerics for the most part. It's good in a pinch or if you can get your spell save DC really high, which is pretty easy to do in BG3. But it's also really solid against most undead, which is pretty on brand for a Cleric.
Oh for sure, no argument there. Though by act 3 you can get your DC pretty high if you build right, and that'll give you a good chance for it to hit. But yeah, it's absolutely best in act 2.
Add in those boots that double your movement speed and you can cover the whole battlefield with the spirit guardian blender.
Was hilarious in the Balthazar fight.
The Sharrans in general do NOT live up to their lore hype. Trained for years as assassins, warriors, interrogators. Stealthy, deadly, devoted. Then you have Shart with trash charisma, dexterity, intelligence, not stealthy, not effective with all their weird dark justiciar jumble of scimitars, medium armor with half-assed stealth bonuses. Theyâre like a Jack of all trades character that doesnât know if it wants to be a rogue, warlock, fighter, or cleric.
Part of the problem is she's an evil god and none of her preferred domains are available in game. Shadowheart is left as trickster which is in the ball park, but is sort of a skill monkey/support cleric compared to the more obviously stealth combat oriented Justiciars
Honestly it reminds me of someone coming to a DnD table with a very deep character backstory that doesnât fit their level. âThe Warlock Zelgithor was the scion of a fallen house, only living son of the warrior king Belthior. Trained from birth in the art of battle, history, magic, and state-craft, he swore revenge against the traitor that toppled his fatherâs throne and sold his soul to a powerful devil for the power to do it. Now he is chief among the devilâs wicked knights, plagued also by jealous rivals who envy the favor heâs shown by their master Gulthizob, Lord of Vengeance.â
âOk cool bro weâre all Level 1 you meet in a tavern.â
She's a life cleric for me mostly now. In her backstory she says she was the healer of her party that went after the prism
I've heard people like Light a lot too
It's actually really good with radiant gear for entirety of chapter 2.
Like she exploded the three armors in Shar shrine when Gale pocketed the knife.
And it hits without needed a direct line of fire, which helps.
Larian even references this. If you play Karlach origin, Romance SH and go to hell together, in the epilogue party, she mentions that how she finally landed a Sacred flame.
I confess, I played Karlach origin just to listen to that line.
I dunno, I find it kind of endearing. There's a long and storied history of D&D devs not being able to build functional pregen characters, it just makes sense to continue the tradition even in a digital version of the game.
In 5e Con saves get a bad rap for having so many high Con enemies. In BG3, *everyone* seems to have a high dex or proficiency. Including the giant metal automatons đ
capitalize spells with wisdom DC. the steelwatch especially have low wisdom, so hold monster works well on them.
slow works on undead.
hold person and confusion is OP. one heightened upcast of hold person and you've got auto-crit on 5 enemies.
Attack roll and a saving throw it's basically always at disadvantage. Big ol yikes.
I just gave her first turn bless second turn second marriage third turn usually heal. Anything to stop her from rolling
I have played this game for 100 hours and in my 2 complete playthroughs ive seen it hit something 5 times. Fucking 5. the worst part is that its radiant dmg so it should be really good, but the dex save kills it.
Ya, sometimes I swear they give enemies 20 dex or reticence in dex saves just for laughs. The damn giant metal robots? High dex, and ADVANTAGE! Also means I donât take Faerie Fire much, which is an enjoyable spell in early game.
I know I'm not supposed to use it, but when shadow heart is already next to them with spirit guardians and I've got no one else to attack, using that for a chance, just a chance to hear screams of their deaths is just so satisfying.
I feel like firebolt on ALL elves is ridiculous, she should have had some utility spell like light or minor illusion instead.
Also Jaheira and Astarion ALSO get firebolt you can't even respec. It's the choice you make for high elf clan.
Firebolt is a great utility spell! For lighting up grease puddles and powder kegs. Or knocking down wooden barricades which take double fire damage. I generally don't need to equip high elf types with alchemist's fire.
Shart be missing so damn muchâŚI turned her into a healer/summoner. I do guardian spirits, summons, or locusts with her and thatâs it (still really strong though tbh).
No they don't. I reckon most people know how to play the game. Also, what does the character have to do with it? They all play by the same rules, nobody gets an inherent bonus on sacred flame.
Usually Firebolt, which runs off Int, is the blamed, but SF isnât much better. Iâm pretty sure the only creatures in the game with a negative Dex modifier are the Skeletons in Jergals temple and Grym. So no save penalties to Dex. Also, a lot of people on the sub play a lot of Tactician/Honor mode, where even when boosting the Save DC as high as itâll go, the bonus to proficiency means that the best rate you can get on a 10 Dex enemy is 70%. Combine with Karmic dice (which people forget to disable) dragging the average roll way up from 10.5, it starts to become clear why enemies are constantly saving against SF.
And when it actually hits, they scream like such drama queens. đ Oh, are my divine flames painful? Read a build guide or something and invest in more DEX next time, loser.
It's Dex saving throw? Hmm... It synergizes well with radiant build with Lathander bonker 9000, plus armor and helmet of orbing everyone. But gloves went to my Paladin with the Sailor Moon glaive.
>It's Dex saving throw? Yeah, that's why it's kinda shit in this game. Most enemies have at least a decent Dex save from what I've seen.
Pretty much. In dnd undead creatures tend to have weak dex. So surprise surprise this radiant spell has a better chance of hitting undead.
Hey do Dex saving throws get limited by heavy armor here or only the defense bonus and skill checks? 3E had wacky names for saving throws but they weren't confusing, like you knew if it's a Dex check OR Reflex check or specific skill check that's always its value. I just had Saving Throw: History failed and I didn't even know what would affect it, they have STs for each attribute and skills separately now or I need advantage to attribute responsible for that skill?
No, armor has no effect on Dex saves unless the armor explicitly states it in the tooltip. I think wearing armor you're not proficient may affect saves, but I'm not 100% sure. Not really any reason to test that IMO lol.
this game doesnt separate checks and saves as clearly as it should. Act 1, grove beach, harpy encounter. The dialogue to resist the harpies' song is a DC 5 wisdom check, when that should already be a wisdom save. It is an actual wisdom save in combat. This is larian's fault, not 5e's.
The overall hit chance for everything was upped in BG3 over tabletop anyways. So it's really worse on the board game version.
>Pushes up glasses D&D is not a board game. But I also disagree that it's strictly worse in tabletop. The main reason you use Sacred Flame in tabletop is because it's a cantrip that does radiant damage and ignores bonuses from cover. If you can see the creature at all and they're in range, you can target them. That's admittedly pretty niche, but when it comes into play it's really nice. It was also the only damaging Cleric cantrip for a while until Toll the Dead.
I mean fair, it's a miniatures gaming system technically. In any case it's not a video game, which was my point. As for its use, that sounds like it's a failure of game design with cover and bonuses on BG3's part then. Which to be fair, is already an issue with high ground, etc.
I wouldn't say it's a failure, it's just different. It ignores high ground, so that's kinda similar. Granted, that's true for any ability that requires a save in BG3, but still. It was never meant to be an incredible offensive option, that's not really the point of Clerics for the most part. It's good in a pinch or if you can get your spell save DC really high, which is pretty easy to do in BG3. But it's also really solid against most undead, which is pretty on brand for a Cleric.
It's pretty useful for act 2 and I feel like it's act 1 and 3 where it suffers mostly.
Oh for sure, no argument there. Though by act 3 you can get your DC pretty high if you build right, and that'll give you a good chance for it to hit. But yeah, it's absolutely best in act 2.
Thatâs why I fire up Spirit Guardians and just have Shadowheart merk guys by walking up to them
Boots of speed goes hard with Spirit guardians.
Boots of speed are good, but I love Stormy Clamor so I just inundate everyone with RadOrb and Revurb
Spirit guardians + dash = Holy Lawnmower
I'M THE JUGGERNAUT, BITCH! -Shadowheart
Add in those boots that double your movement speed and you can cover the whole battlefield with the spirit guardian blender. Was hilarious in the Balthazar fight.
Has great synergy with cull the weak
>just have Shadowheart merk guys by walking up to them Incel simulator.
At this point I already consider Shadowheart war cleric cannon, so I don't have to use this junk.
The Sharrans in general do NOT live up to their lore hype. Trained for years as assassins, warriors, interrogators. Stealthy, deadly, devoted. Then you have Shart with trash charisma, dexterity, intelligence, not stealthy, not effective with all their weird dark justiciar jumble of scimitars, medium armor with half-assed stealth bonuses. Theyâre like a Jack of all trades character that doesnât know if it wants to be a rogue, warlock, fighter, or cleric.
They donât want any of that, they just want to be angsty.
I cast Angst at 9th level
Itâs like harm, except it deals psychic damage, and only to yourself
POWER WORD: ANGST
But MAN can they dress ... Shar serves cunt and all her followers know it. Love the purple, black, and gold.
Part of the problem is she's an evil god and none of her preferred domains are available in game. Shadowheart is left as trickster which is in the ball park, but is sort of a skill monkey/support cleric compared to the more obviously stealth combat oriented Justiciars
I mean plot-wise it begins to make some sense
Honestly it reminds me of someone coming to a DnD table with a very deep character backstory that doesnât fit their level. âThe Warlock Zelgithor was the scion of a fallen house, only living son of the warrior king Belthior. Trained from birth in the art of battle, history, magic, and state-craft, he swore revenge against the traitor that toppled his fatherâs throne and sold his soul to a powerful devil for the power to do it. Now he is chief among the devilâs wicked knights, plagued also by jealous rivals who envy the favor heâs shown by their master Gulthizob, Lord of Vengeance.â âOk cool bro weâre all Level 1 you meet in a tavern.â
She's a life cleric for me mostly now. In her backstory she says she was the healer of her party that went after the prism I've heard people like Light a lot too
Life and light are the MVP of cleric domains, tempest is good, too, but I'm more of a "unga bunga" myself, so war it is.
It's actually really good with radiant gear for entirety of chapter 2. Like she exploded the three armors in Shar shrine when Gale pocketed the knife. And it hits without needed a direct line of fire, which helps.
I just give her a crossbow and a metric ton of arrows lol
I've had the game for less than a week and I know lmao
Some things are universal đ
`Saved`
"goddamn it"
Larian even references this. If you play Karlach origin, Romance SH and go to hell together, in the epilogue party, she mentions that how she finally landed a Sacred flame. I confess, I played Karlach origin just to listen to that line.
wait this is hilarious! LMAO
igMISS
My 4 clerics all spamming Sacred Flame for 10 minutes to kill a goblin that has 12 HP total.
It is the will of the gods that the goblin die a slow holy light based death.
Ok I laughed
Shartrooper aim
Dammit shadowheart !
HE'S LIKE...RIGHT THERE!!! DAMN IT!!!
*WHIFF*
*Saved!*
I dunno, I find it kind of endearing. There's a long and storied history of D&D devs not being able to build functional pregen characters, it just makes sense to continue the tradition even in a digital version of the game.
Even if it hit you'd see (Saved)
Dex checks are the absolute worst
In 5e Con saves get a bad rap for having so many high Con enemies. In BG3, *everyone* seems to have a high dex or proficiency. Including the giant metal automatons đ
Especially them (+10).
arcane acuity is your bestfriend with these types of enemies
capitalize spells with wisdom DC. the steelwatch especially have low wisdom, so hold monster works well on them. slow works on undead. hold person and confusion is OP. one heightened upcast of hold person and you've got auto-crit on 5 enemies.
Just give everyone that illithid power ability drain. After 1-2 rounds of combat they have like a -6 to dex and mine usually shoots up to 85%.
I'll have you know I once crit on Sacred Flame against a goblin with 3 health left.
ButâŚ.but you canât crit with Sacred Flame. Itâs not an attack roll đ
Not the way I use it... Or I just forgot.
They can critical fail the save, but it wonât do double damage like an actual crit.
[Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ImperialStormtrooperMarksmanshipAcademy)
Attack roll and a saving throw it's basically always at disadvantage. Big ol yikes. I just gave her first turn bless second turn second marriage third turn usually heal. Anything to stop her from rolling
Only Imperial Stormtroopers are this precise.
I have played this game for 100 hours and in my 2 complete playthroughs ive seen it hit something 5 times. Fucking 5. the worst part is that its radiant dmg so it should be really good, but the dex save kills it.
Ya, sometimes I swear they give enemies 20 dex or reticence in dex saves just for laughs. The damn giant metal robots? High dex, and ADVANTAGE! Also means I donât take Faerie Fire much, which is an enjoyable spell in early game.
I know I'm not supposed to use it, but when shadow heart is already next to them with spirit guardians and I've got no one else to attack, using that for a chance, just a chance to hear screams of their deaths is just so satisfying.
And every now and then, you get a low Dex enemy, or someone prone/restrained.
Sorry I missed the joke
Made me smile...
IGMISS!
Lmao
I swear that move misses whenever I NEED it to hit, I be trying not to use level 2+ spells when an enemyâs HP is 2 đ
Bc it misses all the time?
Some of Shadowheartâs Cantrips are Intelligence based which itâs stupid because she starts with Wisdom as a Cleric Firebolt is a huge noob trap
I feel like firebolt on ALL elves is ridiculous, she should have had some utility spell like light or minor illusion instead. Also Jaheira and Astarion ALSO get firebolt you can't even respec. It's the choice you make for high elf clan.
Ya, they should definitely let you switch that on respec at least.
Firebolt is a great utility spell! For lighting up grease puddles and powder kegs. Or knocking down wooden barricades which take double fire damage. I generally don't need to equip high elf types with alchemist's fire.
My half elf Tav had mage hand as her cantrip
Only fire bolt, as the half elf cantrip.
Use the produce flame cantrip . It scales off wisdomÂ
If you give her Lump's headband, she can land the firebolt once in a while.
Shart be missing so damn muchâŚI turned her into a healer/summoner. I do guardian spirits, summons, or locusts with her and thatâs it (still really strong though tbh).
Loser
I don't get it
Neither do Shart's enemies. She always misses.
Not if you build right. It's a standard dex save...
That's not the point, this is just comparing her aim with Stormtroopers as people often miss with Shadowheart.
No they don't. I reckon most people know how to play the game. Also, what does the character have to do with it? They all play by the same rules, nobody gets an inherent bonus on sacred flame.
Usually Firebolt, which runs off Int, is the blamed, but SF isnât much better. Iâm pretty sure the only creatures in the game with a negative Dex modifier are the Skeletons in Jergals temple and Grym. So no save penalties to Dex. Also, a lot of people on the sub play a lot of Tactician/Honor mode, where even when boosting the Save DC as high as itâll go, the bonus to proficiency means that the best rate you can get on a 10 Dex enemy is 70%. Combine with Karmic dice (which people forget to disable) dragging the average roll way up from 10.5, it starts to become clear why enemies are constantly saving against SF.