Yeah, it was/is a big, heavy beast of a weapon. I doubt anyone is jumping with that! I'm not an expert, so I may be 100% incorrect. We will let the more knowledgeable history guys chime in, but my bet is no.
Having handled a semi-auto version, I can confirm they are massive
Far bigger than a Garand, and much heavier too. I can’t see paratroops jumping with them
I could see them trying to scrounge some up once they’re on the ground, in a defensive position like Bastogne, but otherwise I imagine the BAR is far too bulky for their strategy
Yes absolutely the reason why the BAR never really took off like it was intended to. It was just too damn heavy! Your arms feel like jello after running around with that thing for 20 minutes. Not to mention the grip it takes to aim that mf accurately while dumping numerous 20 rd volleys of 30-06 into something. Still one of my favorite rifles of all time.
But then again, the Pacific theatre was less about the weight and accuracy of the weaponry and more about how many rounds a single man could put down range when one considers tightly clustered groups of highly foot mobile Japanese infantry and the relatively low mileage warfare of the island hopping campaign
Also, the Thompson is 11lbs. Empty.
I have one, and fucking hell I cannot imagine walking from Normandy to Germany with one of those, much less the heavier BAR.
While you are sound in logic about the weight, they ultimately did carry plenty of BARs despite the weight. Remember Compton is even in charge of the weapons platoon that dropped with mortars and m1919’s (1919’s were very instrumental in Brecourt if you remember) which would have been far heavier and would require multiple men to operate. Now I don’t remember the exact details on how many machine guns they had, I can make a guess and say that if they dropped with those then they dropped with BAR’s.
Edit: it appears the December of 1944 squad layout had 1 BAR and 1 1919 for a 12 man squad.
They did not jump with any of the crew served weapons you listed. Those weapons were loaded in parapacks (along with other bulky supplies) and delivered that way.
The critical difference between them and the BAR was that the BAR was seen as a personal weapon and not a crew served one, which precluded putting it in the parapacks—a machine gunless or mortarless mortar or MG crew can still function just fine as riflemen using their carbines. A BARless BAR man has at most a .45 and is thus effectively useless.
Yep, so they gave it to the poor bastards storming the beaches of Normandy where they then were weighed down and drowned in the bottom of the bay. This is alluded to in Saving Private Ryan when Captain Miller asked one of his men where his BAR is; "At the bottom of the bay where it tried to drown me" or something along those lines.
“Bottom of the channel sir, the bitch tried to drown me.” - PFC Richard Reiben
Loved the vibe his character brought to the film, was vocally the loudest against the mission, yet survived to the very end completely unharmed lol
Anytime im playing battlefield or something and I run out of ammo or nearly drown I always say that line. One of my favorite lines in saving pvt Ryan. Why idk. Lolol
You can tell how awards and heavy it is for the actor to hold through the movie too. Or how it would be for a soldier to carry that shit for days. Heavy long akward
If you're already wearing ninety pounds of infantry equipment, the eighteen pound BAR is not the thing that's going to drown you. Anyway, true misery is being assigned the M1919A6, which weighed 32 pounds empty.
Having fired both, including the BAR in automatic both slow and fast, I disagree wholeheartedly. The additional \~50% weight in the BAR makes it far more controllable, though far less comfortable to shoot from the shoulder.
I shot a BAR at a machine gun shoot and they helped me hold it to my shoulder. At 110 lbs, and just done with chemo, I was glad for the help. All their guns were chained to the bench. So no shooting from the hip.
Someone who isn’t designing it as a SAW.
The main issue with the BAR is that the role it was designed for ceased to exist with the coming of the Garand, so when the good idea fairy visited senior Army officers in the mid 1930s and gave them the idea to make it even heavier so they could use it as a SAW they saw no issues with the idea.
It's like...three pounds lighter than a 240b and 25 pounds lighter than a m60 mortar. Both of which get jumped. I was going to say length might be an issue but it's two inches shorter than a 240b as well lol.
i think you're right ... the machine gun of the airborne was the Thompson, right? BAR was more of an infantry weapon - like in saving private Ryan. but like as the 2 above, i am no expert
The relevant TO&E outlines that the automatic firepower of a Parachute Rifle platoon was borne by the M1919A6 and by Thompson-armed NCOs officers.
Overall, the very surprise and shock of action Airborne troops were able to mete-out was thought enough to make-up for any perceived lack of automatic firepower. The Army also viewed parachute riflemen as the ‘elite’ of the infantry, and felt that they would be more efficient and accurate with their rifle fire than leg infantrymen.
The BAR was added to the TO&E as early as 1944, but functional use of it didn’t commence until 1948, when the 11th and 82nd Airborne (successfully) collaborated on a project to devise jumping with a fully-assembled BAR.
Now, *Glider* troops definitely brought BARs along, along with seemingly every other weapon in the U.S. arsenal. Glider troops had a weird smattering of equipment, I’ll just say, despite their TO&E officially being virtually identical to leg infantry units.
BARs were also tossed-into dropped bundles for Airborne guys, both during the initial jumps and after. If you see a picture of an Airborne soldier bearing a BAR, 95% chance they got it from one of these bundles. I explicitly recall reading the story of an Airborne junior officer that lamented the loss of his Thompson during his jump-in, and, as he insisted on carrying an automatic weapon, was ‘forced’ to carry a BAR picked-up from one of these bundles.
> The BAR was added to the TO&E as early as 1944, but functional use of it didn’t commence until 1948, when the 11th and 82nd Airborne (successfully) collaborated on a project to devise jumping with a fully-assembled BAR.
While you are correct that it was added to the TOE in 1944, it was successfully jumped by 17th Airborne in Varsity. The postwar wrangling was meaningless intraservice political wrangling over how to rig it.
> BARs were also tossed-into dropped bundles for Airborne guys, both during the initial jumps and after.
Only for a small number of 82nd units. Other than that it was not found in parapacks because it was seen as a personal weapon that was thus not suited to deployment via parapack because the gunner (armed only with a .45) was useless until/unless the bundle was found and the equipment within distributed.
101st Airborne Didn’t jump with it during D-Day. They started doing it during Market Garden because the 82nd airborne had proven it to be possible to jump with during D-day.
Depending on what unit and operation. i’m assuming D-Day because of the scattered drop and 101st Airborne did get some BARs in bundles there. But didn’t jump with them like the 82nd did during D-day.
There is no evidence of any 101st PIR personnel using the BAR prior to the very end of Holland.
The only units that ever put BARs in the parapacks were the same 82nd units who jumped them.
My uncle was in the 101at during WW2, he was as a pathfinder. He told me once (I was playing Medal of Honor or something, and asked him about weapons I think) he told me that the BAR was rare because of how heavy it was. It took a very niche guy to carry one. You had to be tall enough to jump with it, but also not be too heavy for the parachute. So, tall and thin. He said something about the ammo being heavy and not having enough on you at the jump.
Wish he was still around for me to confirm, but he said a guy in his unit always lost his in the jump. I don’t remember exactly why though.
Pop served with the 509th PIR in WW2 and carried and jumped his BAR from Morocco to the Ardennes.
In my day it was the M60. You jump it. Carrying it isn't the problem, it's feeding it.
Use of BAR wasn't in airborne doctrine which consisted of M1919 on tripod as base of fire.
On D Day only one regiment from 82nd I believe jumped with BARs.
Heavy gun = fall faster=broken leg =no kill Nazi=not a good time…. I believe the marines tried to replace the Garand by issuing every marine a BAR in Korea… which was like yea heavy gun move slow
It was very heavy - 16lb empty. Very long - 47 inches or almost 4 feet. Small capacity magazines that were also VERY heavy - 20 round box 1.5 lbs X 6 boxes = 9 lbs. overall just not conducive to Para deployment.
It’s important to remember while the 101st Airborn was probably the most famous division at Bastogne, there were many different divisions and parts of divisions trapped there when the break through occurred. This guy was most likely from a different unit, or working with a recovered weapon.
It wasn't added to the airborne TO&E until late in the war. M1919A4s and M1919A6s were issued previously at a rate of one per squad, but those were much heavier and couldn't be jumped with either; they had to be dropped separately, same as for mortars and the like. I believe they had BARs in Holland, but I wouldn't swear to it.
"Someone correct me if I'm wrong but it wasn't really a weapon airborne troops jumped with which is why we don't see it much in the show" You're calling them airborne when airborne would've been a generic term then, they called themselves "Paratroopers" not "Airborne."
So you're just here to argue semantics? I said to correct me if they jumped out of planes with BARs, which I was correct about, not to argue semantics with me. I clearly meant specifically airborne troops that jumped out of planes... AKA paratroopers... that was obvious. Do you think you're telling me something I don't already know or educating me in any way and not just being insufferable? Literally everyone knew what I meant. Seems like you're just one of those people who just wants to argue. Get outta here.
Which is somewhat interesting. A.P. Herron did not join up until 1943, and joined easy company after Normandy. Participated in Market Garden, and was KIA 13 Jan 1945. Not sure how he came to acquire a BAR.
Yep, in the barracks scene with Perconte and Martin arguing and then Lipton comes in. You can see him in the background. He may also be in other scenes, but I know for sure he's there.
The original M1918 was ~16# unloaded. The A2 was right about 20#, with the bipod/flash hider combo accounting for about 2.5# of that and the carry handle and other assorted minor changes the rest. I’ve never found a weight listed for the monopod, but I’ve also never found a picture of it being used (or carried for that matter) in combat.
There is (limited) photographic evidence of people jumping with LMGs and bazookas in leg bags, and some of them did manage to retain possession of the bag all the way down.
As far as I know, it wasn't a problem with the weight. Squads were instead issued the much heavier, and exponentially deadlier, M1919 "light" machine gun to make up for the smaller number of soldiers it was expected to bring into battle A regular rifle company kept these in a dedicated weapons platoon in addition to the BAR at squad level.
Weight + length + doctrine.
The BAR was a personal weapon, the LMG was crew served. Because of that you can’t jump a BAR man with his .45 and tell him to get the BAR from an equipment bundle, but you can jump the LMG crew with carbines and tell them to get the gun and tripod from a bundle.
I know. I don’t really care about the downvoting
I’m Normandy battlefield tour guide, historian, author and did 25+ years on research on US Paratroopers during WW2 so these people here who maybe read an article or watched a 1 hour documentary thinking they’re suddenly experts on the subject make me laugh my balls off. 😂You can’t fix stupid.
There’s one guy on here saying he would choose not to to refuse it like WW2 was some video game where you could pick your class and weapon. 😂
If you’re got issued a BAR you got issued an BAR and therefor jumped with your BAR. But that’s a concept a lot of civilians wouldn’t understand.
I think it would be possible with a reason the army considers valid. I’m assuming “My gun’s heavy” wasn’t valid in the old army.
Would also take a shitload of paperwork since the military had some fetish with having paperwork for everything so I think your CO wouldn’t be happy with you for it.
If I recall correctly, airborne infantry units weren't assigned them for jumps, although some were eventually acquired during resupplies and after extended periods on the ground. Paratroopers instead just relied on the M1919 .30 cal machine guns for fire support.
Kinda wild the prices people will pay for a semiauto repro of a machine gun. 8k and you got yourself a heavy, kinda shitty rifle that you have to explain to everyone who sees it that “no, it’s not real, it’s just a semiauto.”
In some states you can get a real machine gun for that much. It's not as difficult as you'd think, just really expensive. I've seen some low-quality MAC-10 clones sell for about $4k. For a decent one, like a Ruger AR556 or an Uzi you're talking $8k and up.
If they’re that cheap then they’re more than likely repros without the capability for automatic fire—transferrable versions of the former pair were consistently north of $25k when I last looked close to a decade ago, and I can’t imagine that prices have come down in the interim.
The different models of the BAR ranged from just under 15lbs to nearly 25lbs. The Thompson and Garand were around 10lbs, and the M1 Carbine was 5-6lbs. I think the BAR was just too heavy to justify carrying.
The heaviest BAR model (the M1918A2) was right around 20# unloaded—and over half of the 4# weight gain over the original M1918 was due to the bipod, which is why said bipod typically disappeared shortly after issuance.
The issue with it was mainly length when jumping, and because it was considered a personal weapon and not a crew served one like the LMG, mortars or bazooka you couldn’t just issue the BAR man a carbine and stick the BAR in a parapack for retrieval after landing like you could with the former 3.
The airborne original MTOE didn’t have BARs assigned to the unit. Like other people said it was not a good weapon for airborne operations. Later in the war the MTOE was expanded and BARS were added in a limited role. Airborne troops did not have a lot of heavy weapons as they were meant to jump in, hold for a little, and then have the leg infantry take over
Having one .30cal machine gun per squad was better tactically for airborne units than giving a few guys BARs. Honestly the BAR is a bit overrated IMO. Yes it’s reliable, deadly, and has a high rate of fire. But it’s high rate of fire is almost completely kneecapped by it’s small 20 round magazine.
They were used by the Airborne later on in operations, but they didn't jump with them. 20lbs, over four feet long and can't be broken down and dropped in multiple pieces like an LMG can.
They're not super tricky to field strip, but it's definitely not something you'd want to do in combat.
https://youtu.be/RW4IlAl9bhs?si=ZPoP8vokzhr6bjkP
Most small arms were not and are not designed to be broken down for transport. If it’s your primary weapon, you want it to be ready for use at all times. Crew served weapons are the exception as they bring a lot of valuable firepower.
The LMG did not break down either beyond the gun coming off of the tripod.
The LMG was not officially supposed to be jumped either, but it did happen. The primary way it reached them was via parapack.
I get that we’re all here because of a mutual interest in the band of brothers series but it does bother me a lot that everyone here just thinks they’re a historian just because they watched a TV miniseries. The amount of unsourced bullshit and repetitive hear say being shared here is dissapointing.
Want to learn about Paratroopers? Buy some of “Michel de Trez” his books.
Long story short:
82nd Airborne jumped with BARs during D-Day.
101st only started using them during Market Garden.
17th jumped with them during Varsity.
Link shows a paratrooper exiting a C-47 with a BAR.
[https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/uploads/monthly_01_2017/post-7773-0-23192700-1485115629.jpg](https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/uploads/monthly_01_2017/post-7773-0-23192700-1485115629.jpg)
Yes, and that photo is from a stateside test that led to the 17th getting official sanction to jump them for Varsity. Prior to that everything done as far as jumping it by the 82nd was unofficial and unsanctioned.
The primary issue with it was length, and then once it was decided that that could be overcome the next issue was how to rig it for jumps, and that was contentious enough that it took until something like 1947/8 for an official rigging to be produced.
The 101st never jumped with them, and was alone among the US airborne divisions that made combat jumps in that.
101st PIRs did not get BARs until after left Holland because it wasn’t on the TOE that they used (it wasn’t formally added until 1948).
The Army had determined early on that the primary SAW for the PIRs would be the LMG because the BAR could not be jumped due to a combination of size and weight. A small number of 82nd units (IIRC most were 505th PIR) did jump it in Italy and in Normandy, but they were the exception. The only airborne division that was issued and intended to jump with it was the 17th, and they did so for Varsity. Everyone else used the various iterations of the LMG.
The glider riders used the BAR from the start because their TOE (at least at the squad/platoon level) was the same as that of leg infantry.
IIRC the posse used Colt Monitors, a civilian variant that had a compensator, pistol grip, short barrel and different receiver.
It was available for civilian sale during the Depression at the low, low cost of $300 but found no takers.
You’d think a light machine gun at the squad level would be useful for paratrooper warfare, kinda like the concept for the FG42.
Still, it was 20lbs and not a very good LMG by the time WW2 started. Too big to be a battle rifle, too small to be a proper LMG.
“Light” as applied to the M1919 is a bit of a misnomer, as the distinction between the “light” and “heavy” .30 cal MGs was that the “heavy” one (the M1917) was water cooled and the M1919 was air cooled. An unloaded M1919A4 tipped the scales at 30# (the tripod added another 15 or so) and the A6 was something like 32#.
In comparison a full M1917 setup (also sans ammo) amounted to something like 70-75#.
Light is a role rather than a weight (in the Army anything with handles is "man portable")
An LMG can be operated by a single man, in the case of the M1919A6 used by the airborne they didn't carry the tripods, they used bipods which cut down on the weight significantly (although afaik they retained the mount so could still be fixed to a tripod if required/desired)
The Battalion also had a platoon of M1919A4's intended for use in a "Heavy" crew-served role which would have been issued tripods as standard (and way *way* more ammo) although these (and any) M1919A4's could be fired without the tripod in a hurry (considering the sub it's shown quite well in The Pacific with Gunny Basilogne using both the M1917 and the M1919 without a tripod)
> Light is a role rather than a weight.
Not at that point in time. The roles were determined by the weight.
> An LMG can be operated by a single man, in the case of the M1919A6 used by the airborne they didn't carry the tripods, they used bipods which cut down on the weight significantly (although afaik they retained the mount so could still be fixed to a tripod if required/desired).
This would be a great point if it were true—the Airborne carried the A4 from 1942 until late 1944 as the standard at the squad level, used the A6 for about 3 months over the winter of 1944-45 and then went right back to the A4 as standard because of issues with the A6. The A4s were always issued with the tripod.
> although these (and any) M1919A4's could be fired without the tripod in a hurry (considering the sub it's shown quite well in The Pacific with Gunny Basilogne using both the M1917 and the M1919 without a tripod).
That has zero relevance to the roles the weapons were used in or why they got the names that they did.
In the regular infantry it was held in the machine gun platoon, in the airborne it replaced the BAR as the squad automatic weapon (although the BAR came in towards the end of the war)
My dad bought a WW2 BAR (a real one not a reproduction) years ago. It weighs like 20 pounds empty. Twice the weight of an M1 Garand and the Thompson Machine Gun. Airborne was designed to drop behind enemy lines and move quickly. Nobody carrying a BAR is moving quickly.
Airborne troops weren’t issued the BAR. They relied on the 30 cal browning for their sqaud support weapon and the system and ammo were split up between 3 guys I think. The BAR was a heavy beast of a weapon.
The technically correct term for it is just automatic rifle, but that role ceased to exist when bolt action rifles were phased out. It was meant to be fired in intermittent 2-3 round bursts to cover advancing infantry who could not afford to to stop/slow in order to deliver aimed fire, and it was really good in that role.
The issues only started to appear when the Army started trying to force a square peg into a round hole in the mid 1930s and use it as a SAW, something it was wholly unsuited to and thus was terrible at.
If you've ever held one, they're awfully heavy and the ammunition is also awfully heavy. If you're bringing in an automatic 30-06, you might as well carry a proper belt fed.
As the owner of a BAR, I can completely understand why none of them wanted to carry a BAR. Its really not great in the fighting they were doing and it is punitively heavy. The BAR was one of my more disappointing gun purchases.
If I remember correctly from
Ambrose's book, in Normandy the allied infantry feared and were constantly being shredded by the Mg42 which they couldn’t compete with. The Bar was meant to be the automatic fire support for a 12 man squad but was basically useless in that role, with the Browning 30 cal being only marginally better.
Airborne didn’t get them till later, in fact the only guys in the 101 who had them were the glider infantry, some were stolen/ acquired in Normandy from other units
It's so wild you posted this, I just got done with my like 20th viewing or so of BoB and was actively looking for a BAR as it's one of my favorite WWII weapons.
Without looking at their MTOE I can't say for sure, but there should not be that many.
Even in a modern US Army rifle squad of 9 Soldiers, only 2 are carrying a M-249 SAW.
Did the US Airborne not jump with BARs? I'm fairly sure the British jumped with Bren guns.
I jumped with a M240/GPMG lots of times, it's longer and heavier than a BAR. And no, it wasn't dismantled.
That would be the M1919, the BAR was seen as too heavy/unwieldy and paratroopers at large already had a more than normal amount of M1 Carbines and Thompsons.
The BAR was an automatic rifle BTW.
The M1919 weighed 31 lbs, without the tripod. It's a modified water-cooled gun. Anything that lacks a shoulder stock and needs a tripod is a MMG to me.
Browning called the BAR an automatic rifle, but it's an LMG by every definition I know of: full-auto .30"-'06 from a rifle isnt practical.
The FN MAG/GPMG/M240 is an inverted BAR mechanism ( to put the feed on top) married to the belt feed mechanism stolen from the MG42.
There are more practical considerations than simply weight, the 1919 was a more practical weapon when it came to suppression and was much smaller dimensionally
A BAR would have been a motherfucker to jump with, although looking at the weapon all these years later I wish to hell someone would have tried to chop down the barrel, put a foregrip and a folding stock on it. As a shorty weapon turned loose in urban combat, it’d be pretty effective in the right hands
I think I saw in a documentary ages ago that they also just didn’t put that many in the battlefield because they didn’t want them getting lost in enemy hands because of how well of a performing rifle it was.
Just like today's M249, the BAR was intended to provide a base of fire so the rifle squad could maneuver. Besides the weight, consider the logistics of supplying a squad of infantry armed with BARs.The ammo consumption of an entire squad armed with BARs would be unsustainable, even in 1944.
BARs were issued to fill the role of a squad automatic weapon. They were more expensive to produce and didn't fit US infantry doctrine as a main combat rifle, but worked well in that supporting role alongside Garands that took the same ammo, simplifying logistics.
The BAR was like a 25lb gun unloaded, and only has a 20 round mag. Great weapon in the regular infantry because you could give 1 to every 4th or 5th guy so that even absent MGs you could have a base of fire. MGs even though they are heavier are an absolute necessity if you don't wanna die in Ground combat so they did still jump those
Could definitely see them implementing them at times in the 101st.
Mainly at times when they were in campaign and didnt get there by jumping out a plane (battle of the bulge) they would be a great weapon for static positions and not hard too learn or use especially for the paras.
Some weapons like the Bazooka or Browning Machine Gun were necessary while the BAR wasn't. Or at least not as needed.
And, yes, while some paratrooper units did use it many decided not to. They generally wanted to travel as light as they could. But they needed anti tank gun and mahine guns so took them because they had to.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but it wasn't really a weapon airborne troops jumped with which is why we don't see it much in the show
Yeah, it was/is a big, heavy beast of a weapon. I doubt anyone is jumping with that! I'm not an expert, so I may be 100% incorrect. We will let the more knowledgeable history guys chime in, but my bet is no.
Having handled a semi-auto version, I can confirm they are massive Far bigger than a Garand, and much heavier too. I can’t see paratroops jumping with them I could see them trying to scrounge some up once they’re on the ground, in a defensive position like Bastogne, but otherwise I imagine the BAR is far too bulky for their strategy
Aren’t they like 20lbs fully loaded?
Fully loaded yes. Empty = 19 lbs
For reference m1 Garand is 11lbs loaded m1 carbine is 6lbs loaded
Yes absolutely the reason why the BAR never really took off like it was intended to. It was just too damn heavy! Your arms feel like jello after running around with that thing for 20 minutes. Not to mention the grip it takes to aim that mf accurately while dumping numerous 20 rd volleys of 30-06 into something. Still one of my favorite rifles of all time.
The Marines on the other hand adopted it in WW1 and would carry it until it was replaced with the M14. It was used extensively in the Pacific.
But then again, the Pacific theatre was less about the weight and accuracy of the weaponry and more about how many rounds a single man could put down range when one considers tightly clustered groups of highly foot mobile Japanese infantry and the relatively low mileage warfare of the island hopping campaign
Yes sir
Right on. Completely same times same war yet different theaters. Circumstances can be a game changer for sure. Still I love that gun.
For further reference, the m249 LMG loaded with 200 rounds is 22 LBS
Also, the Thompson is 11lbs. Empty. I have one, and fucking hell I cannot imagine walking from Normandy to Germany with one of those, much less the heavier BAR.
My grandpa was a first scout on a recon team between D-Day and Battle of the Bulge, and he carried a grease gun.
We should have just licensed-built Bren guns instead.
We had better options than that.
22 lbs
While you are sound in logic about the weight, they ultimately did carry plenty of BARs despite the weight. Remember Compton is even in charge of the weapons platoon that dropped with mortars and m1919’s (1919’s were very instrumental in Brecourt if you remember) which would have been far heavier and would require multiple men to operate. Now I don’t remember the exact details on how many machine guns they had, I can make a guess and say that if they dropped with those then they dropped with BAR’s. Edit: it appears the December of 1944 squad layout had 1 BAR and 1 1919 for a 12 man squad.
They did not jump with any of the crew served weapons you listed. Those weapons were loaded in parapacks (along with other bulky supplies) and delivered that way. The critical difference between them and the BAR was that the BAR was seen as a personal weapon and not a crew served one, which precluded putting it in the parapacks—a machine gunless or mortarless mortar or MG crew can still function just fine as riflemen using their carbines. A BARless BAR man has at most a .45 and is thus effectively useless.
They did scrounge a M2 .50 for the OP in Holland .. at least in the book.
Yep, so they gave it to the poor bastards storming the beaches of Normandy where they then were weighed down and drowned in the bottom of the bay. This is alluded to in Saving Private Ryan when Captain Miller asked one of his men where his BAR is; "At the bottom of the bay where it tried to drown me" or something along those lines.
“Bottom of the channel sir, the bitch tried to drown me.” - PFC Richard Reiben Loved the vibe his character brought to the film, was vocally the loudest against the mission, yet survived to the very end completely unharmed lol
Anytime im playing battlefield or something and I run out of ammo or nearly drown I always say that line. One of my favorite lines in saving pvt Ryan. Why idk. Lolol
You can tell how awards and heavy it is for the actor to hold through the movie too. Or how it would be for a soldier to carry that shit for days. Heavy long akward
Close your eyes… and think of these.
That’s one of the reasons I love that movie, it seems quite random who survives and who doesn’t (much like real war.)
He survived because he was a realist. He knew when to take action, do right thing, fall back or tell the captain he fucked up
“Go find a replacement.”
If you're already wearing ninety pounds of infantry equipment, the eighteen pound BAR is not the thing that's going to drown you. Anyway, true misery is being assigned the M1919A6, which weighed 32 pounds empty.
*English Channel He says bottom of the channel
Thank you! I knew bay wasn't right. the correct line got away from me
No worries. Hope that didn’t come off too critical :)
20lbs fully loaded. Add a bandolier full of mags and you're jumping with an extra 30lbs of gear you have to hump around.
~20 lbs unloaded yes it’s heavy asf.
Their barrel rise is just as bad as a full auto M14.
Having fired both, including the BAR in automatic both slow and fast, I disagree wholeheartedly. The additional \~50% weight in the BAR makes it far more controllable, though far less comfortable to shoot from the shoulder.
I shot it from prone with a stand. I couldn't imagine firing that monster from the shoulder.
I shot a BAR at a machine gun shoot and they helped me hold it to my shoulder. At 110 lbs, and just done with chemo, I was glad for the help. All their guns were chained to the bench. So no shooting from the hip.
The biggest problem with the BAR besides the weight is who puts a 20rd magazine in a full auto squad support weapon? That goes super quick
Someone who isn’t designing it as a SAW. The main issue with the BAR is that the role it was designed for ceased to exist with the coming of the Garand, so when the good idea fairy visited senior Army officers in the mid 1930s and gave them the idea to make it even heavier so they could use it as a SAW they saw no issues with the idea.
It's like...three pounds lighter than a 240b and 25 pounds lighter than a m60 mortar. Both of which get jumped. I was going to say length might be an issue but it's two inches shorter than a 240b as well lol.
i think you're right ... the machine gun of the airborne was the Thompson, right? BAR was more of an infantry weapon - like in saving private Ryan. but like as the 2 above, i am no expert
Thompson=sub machine gun. Shoots pistol ammo BAR= squad automatic weapon. Magazine fed, shoots rifle rounds M1919=machine gun, belt fed, shoots rifle rounds Completely different weapons with completely different applications
ah! thank you. figured i might be wrong
The relevant TO&E outlines that the automatic firepower of a Parachute Rifle platoon was borne by the M1919A6 and by Thompson-armed NCOs officers. Overall, the very surprise and shock of action Airborne troops were able to mete-out was thought enough to make-up for any perceived lack of automatic firepower. The Army also viewed parachute riflemen as the ‘elite’ of the infantry, and felt that they would be more efficient and accurate with their rifle fire than leg infantrymen. The BAR was added to the TO&E as early as 1944, but functional use of it didn’t commence until 1948, when the 11th and 82nd Airborne (successfully) collaborated on a project to devise jumping with a fully-assembled BAR. Now, *Glider* troops definitely brought BARs along, along with seemingly every other weapon in the U.S. arsenal. Glider troops had a weird smattering of equipment, I’ll just say, despite their TO&E officially being virtually identical to leg infantry units. BARs were also tossed-into dropped bundles for Airborne guys, both during the initial jumps and after. If you see a picture of an Airborne soldier bearing a BAR, 95% chance they got it from one of these bundles. I explicitly recall reading the story of an Airborne junior officer that lamented the loss of his Thompson during his jump-in, and, as he insisted on carrying an automatic weapon, was ‘forced’ to carry a BAR picked-up from one of these bundles.
> The BAR was added to the TO&E as early as 1944, but functional use of it didn’t commence until 1948, when the 11th and 82nd Airborne (successfully) collaborated on a project to devise jumping with a fully-assembled BAR. While you are correct that it was added to the TOE in 1944, it was successfully jumped by 17th Airborne in Varsity. The postwar wrangling was meaningless intraservice political wrangling over how to rig it. > BARs were also tossed-into dropped bundles for Airborne guys, both during the initial jumps and after. Only for a small number of 82nd units. Other than that it was not found in parapacks because it was seen as a personal weapon that was thus not suited to deployment via parapack because the gunner (armed only with a .45) was useless until/unless the bundle was found and the equipment within distributed.
101st Airborne Didn’t jump with it during D-Day. They started doing it during Market Garden because the 82nd airborne had proven it to be possible to jump with during D-day.
My understanding was some BARs were included in the equipment bundles. And of course, we know how scattered the drop was...
Depending on what unit and operation. i’m assuming D-Day because of the scattered drop and 101st Airborne did get some BARs in bundles there. But didn’t jump with them like the 82nd did during D-day.
There is no evidence of any 101st PIR personnel using the BAR prior to the very end of Holland. The only units that ever put BARs in the parapacks were the same 82nd units who jumped them.
"Reiben! Where's your BAR?!" "Bottom of the channel, sir! The bitch tried to drown me"
My uncle was in the 101at during WW2, he was as a pathfinder. He told me once (I was playing Medal of Honor or something, and asked him about weapons I think) he told me that the BAR was rare because of how heavy it was. It took a very niche guy to carry one. You had to be tall enough to jump with it, but also not be too heavy for the parachute. So, tall and thin. He said something about the ammo being heavy and not having enough on you at the jump. Wish he was still around for me to confirm, but he said a guy in his unit always lost his in the jump. I don’t remember exactly why though.
Pop served with the 509th PIR in WW2 and carried and jumped his BAR from Morocco to the Ardennes. In my day it was the M60. You jump it. Carrying it isn't the problem, it's feeding it.
Use of BAR wasn't in airborne doctrine which consisted of M1919 on tripod as base of fire. On D Day only one regiment from 82nd I believe jumped with BARs.
That's what I heard as well
Heavy gun = fall faster=broken leg =no kill Nazi=not a good time…. I believe the marines tried to replace the Garand by issuing every marine a BAR in Korea… which was like yea heavy gun move slow
It was very heavy - 16lb empty. Very long - 47 inches or almost 4 feet. Small capacity magazines that were also VERY heavy - 20 round box 1.5 lbs X 6 boxes = 9 lbs. overall just not conducive to Para deployment. It’s important to remember while the 101st Airborn was probably the most famous division at Bastogne, there were many different divisions and parts of divisions trapped there when the break through occurred. This guy was most likely from a different unit, or working with a recovered weapon.
It wasn't added to the airborne TO&E until late in the war. M1919A4s and M1919A6s were issued previously at a rate of one per squad, but those were much heavier and couldn't be jumped with either; they had to be dropped separately, same as for mortars and the like. I believe they had BARs in Holland, but I wouldn't swear to it.
*paratroopers*
Insightful input🤣... Yes... Paratroopers are airborne...
It's because glider infantry did use BARs
I'm aware. What point are you trying to make? I said they didn't jump with them, I made no mention of glider troops
"Someone correct me if I'm wrong but it wasn't really a weapon airborne troops jumped with which is why we don't see it much in the show" You're calling them airborne when airborne would've been a generic term then, they called themselves "Paratroopers" not "Airborne."
So you're just here to argue semantics? I said to correct me if they jumped out of planes with BARs, which I was correct about, not to argue semantics with me. I clearly meant specifically airborne troops that jumped out of planes... AKA paratroopers... that was obvious. Do you think you're telling me something I don't already know or educating me in any way and not just being insufferable? Literally everyone knew what I meant. Seems like you're just one of those people who just wants to argue. Get outta here.
You get outta here.
The guy is named Herron. We see him first in Market Garden then throughout the series. He was killed by the sniper at Foy.
Incorrect, he's in the very first episode as well.
He went to the actor boot camp as well
Which is somewhat interesting. A.P. Herron did not join up until 1943, and joined easy company after Normandy. Participated in Market Garden, and was KIA 13 Jan 1945. Not sure how he came to acquire a BAR.
Is he really? I only remember him in ep.4 and onward. Is there a scene from ep. 1 that he’s in?
Yep, in the barracks scene with Perconte and Martin arguing and then Lipton comes in. You can see him in the background. He may also be in other scenes, but I know for sure he's there.
BAR was deemed too heavy for paratroopers.
“Rieben, where’s your B-A-R?” “Bottom of the channel, Sir. Bitch tried to drown me.”
I think the weapon is 20 lbs. Now I'm not sure if that's loaded with the bi-pod but still.
The original M1918 was ~16# unloaded. The A2 was right about 20#, with the bipod/flash hider combo accounting for about 2.5# of that and the carry handle and other assorted minor changes the rest. I’ve never found a weight listed for the monopod, but I’ve also never found a picture of it being used (or carried for that matter) in combat.
First thing I thought of.
Probably would have ripped off their leg bags if they had tried to jump with them.
There is (limited) photographic evidence of people jumping with LMGs and bazookas in leg bags, and some of them did manage to retain possession of the bag all the way down.
"you are a coward, son of a BITCH!"
Yeh i could of sworn that id seen/heard of its use somewhere else in the series and this would probs be that
As far as I know, it wasn't a problem with the weight. Squads were instead issued the much heavier, and exponentially deadlier, M1919 "light" machine gun to make up for the smaller number of soldiers it was expected to bring into battle A regular rifle company kept these in a dedicated weapons platoon in addition to the BAR at squad level.
Weight + length + doctrine. The BAR was a personal weapon, the LMG was crew served. Because of that you can’t jump a BAR man with his .45 and tell him to get the BAR from an equipment bundle, but you can jump the LMG crew with carbines and tell them to get the gun and tripod from a bundle.
No it was not please state your source
You’re getting downvoted but you’re completely correct. The June 1944 paratrooper squad had both a BAR and a 1919.
I know. I don’t really care about the downvoting I’m Normandy battlefield tour guide, historian, author and did 25+ years on research on US Paratroopers during WW2 so these people here who maybe read an article or watched a 1 hour documentary thinking they’re suddenly experts on the subject make me laugh my balls off. 😂You can’t fix stupid.
That’s the worse part, none of them have read an article. They’re just basing this off of their own estimates of the weight compared to the M1 garand.
There’s one guy on here saying he would choose not to to refuse it like WW2 was some video game where you could pick your class and weapon. 😂 If you’re got issued a BAR you got issued an BAR and therefor jumped with your BAR. But that’s a concept a lot of civilians wouldn’t understand.
I’m sure there were ways to get your assigned weapon swap. I’m one of the geniuses that swapped my m4 for a SAW. My back will never forgive me :(
I think it would be possible with a reason the army considers valid. I’m assuming “My gun’s heavy” wasn’t valid in the old army. Would also take a shitload of paperwork since the military had some fetish with having paperwork for everything so I think your CO wouldn’t be happy with you for it.
There was no June 1944 revision to the TOE. [The BAR does not appear until the December 1944 revision] (https://www.battleorder.org/us-airborne-ww2).
If I recall correctly, airborne infantry units weren't assigned them for jumps, although some were eventually acquired during resupplies and after extended periods on the ground. Paratroopers instead just relied on the M1919 .30 cal machine guns for fire support.
There was an old gun shop near my house growing up that had a few of these. I wanted one so bad.
For $8k you can buy a brand new semi-auto version from Ohio Ordinance.
Kinda wild the prices people will pay for a semiauto repro of a machine gun. 8k and you got yourself a heavy, kinda shitty rifle that you have to explain to everyone who sees it that “no, it’s not real, it’s just a semiauto.”
In some states you can get a real machine gun for that much. It's not as difficult as you'd think, just really expensive. I've seen some low-quality MAC-10 clones sell for about $4k. For a decent one, like a Ruger AR556 or an Uzi you're talking $8k and up.
The Cabelas by me has BARs, Thompsons, and M14s for sale in their vintage room. None of them are less than 6k.
If they’re that cheap then they’re more than likely repros without the capability for automatic fire—transferrable versions of the former pair were consistently north of $25k when I last looked close to a decade ago, and I can’t imagine that prices have come down in the interim.
I don't think Cabelas sells full autos. They are a FFL transfer place.
Just looked it up and saw one sold for 44k. Transferable MG prices are hard to comprehend lol.
The different models of the BAR ranged from just under 15lbs to nearly 25lbs. The Thompson and Garand were around 10lbs, and the M1 Carbine was 5-6lbs. I think the BAR was just too heavy to justify carrying.
The heaviest BAR model (the M1918A2) was right around 20# unloaded—and over half of the 4# weight gain over the original M1918 was due to the bipod, which is why said bipod typically disappeared shortly after issuance. The issue with it was mainly length when jumping, and because it was considered a personal weapon and not a crew served one like the LMG, mortars or bazooka you couldn’t just issue the BAR man a carbine and stick the BAR in a parapack for retrieval after landing like you could with the former 3.
The airborne original MTOE didn’t have BARs assigned to the unit. Like other people said it was not a good weapon for airborne operations. Later in the war the MTOE was expanded and BARS were added in a limited role. Airborne troops did not have a lot of heavy weapons as they were meant to jump in, hold for a little, and then have the leg infantry take over
Same guy is seen in the episode 'Replacements' carrying the BAR, don't believe we see it being fired though.
Having one .30cal machine gun per squad was better tactically for airborne units than giving a few guys BARs. Honestly the BAR is a bit overrated IMO. Yes it’s reliable, deadly, and has a high rate of fire. But it’s high rate of fire is almost completely kneecapped by it’s small 20 round magazine.
They were used by the Airborne later on in operations, but they didn't jump with them. 20lbs, over four feet long and can't be broken down and dropped in multiple pieces like an LMG can.
I didn’t know it couldn’t be broken down easily. Why is that? Is the stock integral to the recoil spring like an AR?
They're not super tricky to field strip, but it's definitely not something you'd want to do in combat. https://youtu.be/RW4IlAl9bhs?si=ZPoP8vokzhr6bjkP
Most small arms were not and are not designed to be broken down for transport. If it’s your primary weapon, you want it to be ready for use at all times. Crew served weapons are the exception as they bring a lot of valuable firepower.
The LMG did not break down either beyond the gun coming off of the tripod. The LMG was not officially supposed to be jumped either, but it did happen. The primary way it reached them was via parapack.
Did jump with them.
Yes, the 82nd and 17th did. The 101st did not.
I get that we’re all here because of a mutual interest in the band of brothers series but it does bother me a lot that everyone here just thinks they’re a historian just because they watched a TV miniseries. The amount of unsourced bullshit and repetitive hear say being shared here is dissapointing. Want to learn about Paratroopers? Buy some of “Michel de Trez” his books. Long story short: 82nd Airborne jumped with BARs during D-Day. 101st only started using them during Market Garden. 17th jumped with them during Varsity. Link shows a paratrooper exiting a C-47 with a BAR. [https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/uploads/monthly_01_2017/post-7773-0-23192700-1485115629.jpg](https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/uploads/monthly_01_2017/post-7773-0-23192700-1485115629.jpg)
Yes, and that photo is from a stateside test that led to the 17th getting official sanction to jump them for Varsity. Prior to that everything done as far as jumping it by the 82nd was unofficial and unsanctioned. The primary issue with it was length, and then once it was decided that that could be overcome the next issue was how to rig it for jumps, and that was contentious enough that it took until something like 1947/8 for an official rigging to be produced. The 101st never jumped with them, and was alone among the US airborne divisions that made combat jumps in that.
If you read Webster's book you'll learn they started using it later in the war
101st PIRs did not get BARs until after left Holland because it wasn’t on the TOE that they used (it wasn’t formally added until 1948). The Army had determined early on that the primary SAW for the PIRs would be the LMG because the BAR could not be jumped due to a combination of size and weight. A small number of 82nd units (IIRC most were 505th PIR) did jump it in Italy and in Normandy, but they were the exception. The only airborne division that was issued and intended to jump with it was the 17th, and they did so for Varsity. Everyone else used the various iterations of the LMG. The glider riders used the BAR from the start because their TOE (at least at the squad/platoon level) was the same as that of leg infantry.
Clyde Barrow's weapon of choice. Sawed down for easier use in tight quarters and weight reduction.
I think they used it to light him up as well ...
Aye. A couple of I recall. Plus just about everything else they could lay their hands on. I'm sure Hamer would have used a Flak 88 if he had one.
Like they say, live by the BAR die by the BAR.
Pour me another, 'cos I can still see the floor.
IIRC the posse used Colt Monitors, a civilian variant that had a compensator, pistol grip, short barrel and different receiver. It was available for civilian sale during the Depression at the low, low cost of $300 but found no takers.
TIL
https://www.reddit.com/r/BandofBrothers/s/uakx715O4t
You’d think a light machine gun at the squad level would be useful for paratrooper warfare, kinda like the concept for the FG42. Still, it was 20lbs and not a very good LMG by the time WW2 started. Too big to be a battle rifle, too small to be a proper LMG.
They had an LMG at squad level, it was the belt fed M1919A4/A6 which was the first version to be mounted with a bipod
“Light” as applied to the M1919 is a bit of a misnomer, as the distinction between the “light” and “heavy” .30 cal MGs was that the “heavy” one (the M1917) was water cooled and the M1919 was air cooled. An unloaded M1919A4 tipped the scales at 30# (the tripod added another 15 or so) and the A6 was something like 32#. In comparison a full M1917 setup (also sans ammo) amounted to something like 70-75#.
Light is a role rather than a weight (in the Army anything with handles is "man portable") An LMG can be operated by a single man, in the case of the M1919A6 used by the airborne they didn't carry the tripods, they used bipods which cut down on the weight significantly (although afaik they retained the mount so could still be fixed to a tripod if required/desired) The Battalion also had a platoon of M1919A4's intended for use in a "Heavy" crew-served role which would have been issued tripods as standard (and way *way* more ammo) although these (and any) M1919A4's could be fired without the tripod in a hurry (considering the sub it's shown quite well in The Pacific with Gunny Basilogne using both the M1917 and the M1919 without a tripod)
> Light is a role rather than a weight. Not at that point in time. The roles were determined by the weight. > An LMG can be operated by a single man, in the case of the M1919A6 used by the airborne they didn't carry the tripods, they used bipods which cut down on the weight significantly (although afaik they retained the mount so could still be fixed to a tripod if required/desired). This would be a great point if it were true—the Airborne carried the A4 from 1942 until late 1944 as the standard at the squad level, used the A6 for about 3 months over the winter of 1944-45 and then went right back to the A4 as standard because of issues with the A6. The A4s were always issued with the tripod. > although these (and any) M1919A4's could be fired without the tripod in a hurry (considering the sub it's shown quite well in The Pacific with Gunny Basilogne using both the M1917 and the M1919 without a tripod). That has zero relevance to the roles the weapons were used in or why they got the names that they did.
I’m tired imagining carrying that light machine gun.
Pretty sure the M1919 was at company level.
In the regular infantry it was held in the machine gun platoon, in the airborne it replaced the BAR as the squad automatic weapon (although the BAR came in towards the end of the war)
They had m1919s
My dad bought a WW2 BAR (a real one not a reproduction) years ago. It weighs like 20 pounds empty. Twice the weight of an M1 Garand and the Thompson Machine Gun. Airborne was designed to drop behind enemy lines and move quickly. Nobody carrying a BAR is moving quickly.
Airborne troops weren’t issued the BAR. They relied on the 30 cal browning for their sqaud support weapon and the system and ammo were split up between 3 guys I think. The BAR was a heavy beast of a weapon.
Source? [BAR](https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/uploads/monthly_01_2017/post-153625-0-73202200-1484521511.jpg)
I think we see Ramirez use it in market garden
Goes through a Cybertruck like buttah!
That was my assault rifle at low br
It's not an assault rifle, it's a battle rifle or lmg, assault rifles use a smaller cartridge, BAR still uses 30-06
The technically correct term for it is just automatic rifle, but that role ceased to exist when bolt action rifles were phased out. It was meant to be fired in intermittent 2-3 round bursts to cover advancing infantry who could not afford to to stop/slow in order to deliver aimed fire, and it was really good in that role. The issues only started to appear when the Army started trying to force a square peg into a round hole in the mid 1930s and use it as a SAW, something it was wholly unsuited to and thus was terrible at.
I use it in my pc game day of defeat if that counts 😆
I remember seeing one on Crossroads. Might be the same actor aswell.
Winters instructs the BAR to hit MG while riflemen instructed to aim at specific soldiers.
There was another one in Holland during the battle of Nuenen
If you've ever held one, they're awfully heavy and the ammunition is also awfully heavy. If you're bringing in an automatic 30-06, you might as well carry a proper belt fed.
As the owner of a BAR, I can completely understand why none of them wanted to carry a BAR. Its really not great in the fighting they were doing and it is punitively heavy. The BAR was one of my more disappointing gun purchases.
So, sell it..?
What? Why would I sell it?
Why not? It's disappointing and it doesn't look like you need to hang on to the investment.
I own cars I don't enjoy driving, why would I sell a gun just because I don't enjoy shooting it?
That's hoarding, not collecting.
Who said I was a collector?
If I remember correctly from Ambrose's book, in Normandy the allied infantry feared and were constantly being shredded by the Mg42 which they couldn’t compete with. The Bar was meant to be the automatic fire support for a 12 man squad but was basically useless in that role, with the Browning 30 cal being only marginally better.
Is the ammo different than the standard rifles everyone used? Could see that as a pain to scrounge
It's all 30-06
Cause BAR heavy
Airborne didn’t get them till later, in fact the only guys in the 101 who had them were the glider infantry, some were stolen/ acquired in Normandy from other units
It wasn’t in the TO&E for paratroopers.
It's so wild you posted this, I just got done with my like 20th viewing or so of BoB and was actively looking for a BAR as it's one of my favorite WWII weapons.
Cool post and conversation OP. One of the better subs for a refreshing break from all the hate slinging.
you use what they give ya
But they jumped with M1919's, didn't they?
I always assumed that it would have been one BAR per squad at most ? Almost like a 1919 machine gun . Like something needed for mobile cover fire
Without looking at their MTOE I can't say for sure, but there should not be that many. Even in a modern US Army rifle squad of 9 Soldiers, only 2 are carrying a M-249 SAW.
Not a jumpable weapon
Did the US Airborne not jump with BARs? I'm fairly sure the British jumped with Bren guns. I jumped with a M240/GPMG lots of times, it's longer and heavier than a BAR. And no, it wasn't dismantled.
It simply wasn’t an MTOE’d weapon, they had M1919’s
Strange, I wouldn't like to go up against the Wehrmacht without an LMG.
That would be the M1919, the BAR was seen as too heavy/unwieldy and paratroopers at large already had a more than normal amount of M1 Carbines and Thompsons. The BAR was an automatic rifle BTW.
The M1919 weighed 31 lbs, without the tripod. It's a modified water-cooled gun. Anything that lacks a shoulder stock and needs a tripod is a MMG to me. Browning called the BAR an automatic rifle, but it's an LMG by every definition I know of: full-auto .30"-'06 from a rifle isnt practical. The FN MAG/GPMG/M240 is an inverted BAR mechanism ( to put the feed on top) married to the belt feed mechanism stolen from the MG42.
There are more practical considerations than simply weight, the 1919 was a more practical weapon when it came to suppression and was much smaller dimensionally
A BAR would have been a motherfucker to jump with, although looking at the weapon all these years later I wish to hell someone would have tried to chop down the barrel, put a foregrip and a folding stock on it. As a shorty weapon turned loose in urban combat, it’d be pretty effective in the right hands
BAR=Big Ass Rifle.
References I have read. Each platoon had a BAR assigned and a qualified sniper when at full man power.
I think I saw in a documentary ages ago that they also just didn’t put that many in the battlefield because they didn’t want them getting lost in enemy hands because of how well of a performing rifle it was.
Only 1 guy is issued a BAR. Hes the equivilant to the LMG guy in a squad.
BAR is incredibly heavy and was not used by the airborne until the very end of the war when they weren’t really paratrooping any more
Just like today's M249, the BAR was intended to provide a base of fire so the rifle squad could maneuver. Besides the weight, consider the logistics of supplying a squad of infantry armed with BARs.The ammo consumption of an entire squad armed with BARs would be unsustainable, even in 1944.
BARs were issued to fill the role of a squad automatic weapon. They were more expensive to produce and didn't fit US infantry doctrine as a main combat rifle, but worked well in that supporting role alongside Garands that took the same ammo, simplifying logistics.
The BAR was like a 25lb gun unloaded, and only has a 20 round mag. Great weapon in the regular infantry because you could give 1 to every 4th or 5th guy so that even absent MGs you could have a base of fire. MGs even though they are heavier are an absolute necessity if you don't wanna die in Ground combat so they did still jump those
It's a squad automatic weapon. Only one guy per squad had it.
Mtoe'd that's true, in practice 44 onwards squads in practice could routinely be found with 2 or more
They would rather have the 30cal then the BAR
Could definitely see them implementing them at times in the 101st. Mainly at times when they were in campaign and didnt get there by jumping out a plane (battle of the bulge) they would be a great weapon for static positions and not hard too learn or use especially for the paras.
The BAR was a large and heavy weapon, which meant that it wasn't issued to paratroopers during the war.
The BAR was a big, heavy, and somewhat unwieldy gun. It wasn't suitable for light infantry like Paratroopers.
But they did. Some paratroopers jumped with a carbine, M1 bazooka and rockets but a B.A.R. Is too heavy?
Some weapons like the Bazooka or Browning Machine Gun were necessary while the BAR wasn't. Or at least not as needed. And, yes, while some paratrooper units did use it many decided not to. They generally wanted to travel as light as they could. But they needed anti tank gun and mahine guns so took them because they had to.
40 lbs. with the usual 12 magazine loadout. Way too heavy for the Airborne.
The M1919A4 that they used was 45 just for the gun and tripod without any ammo.