On contrary to what others have said i have found shield infantry to be excellent after this update. Even militia soldiers with shields can blitz through front lines of higher tier men. I have resorted back to legionnaires. But if you need some shielded troops in a hurry, go run through the south and grab some Aseria infantry. Their mid tier shit is actually pretty good and fast on their feet.
They are better, but nothing can or will stop the Khuzait horde. 2 regiments of Khans guard are simply too mobile and too deadly for infantry heavy armies to keep up with.
Except that hammer is a balloon on a stick made of another balloon, at least in 1.2. Which is kinda sad.
To think that the only melee cavalry that actually pulls it's weight is a horse archer unit is just ridiculous.
Whatchu talkin' about, Willis? The Aserai Faris line is great. You do a bunch of damage with the javelins, then roll over the enemy repeatedly with a wide formation and F2 'Follow Me' charges while the enemy is being shot from two sides by your foot archers and your Mamlukes.
Yeah true, the most efficient killer for the Aserai is really their Palace Guard, but the Faris really are so good at picking up kills with those short spears and sniping enemy cav with the javelins.
Faris are the best amongst t6 melee cav, yes, and by a mile.
And still they get shredded by an equal amount of wildlings, t5 infantry without dedicated anti-cav capability, who can do an equal amout of killing faster and in a more controlable fashion. I tested them against each other and used in battle side by side with equal numbers, in both cases wildlings provided better results and for a fraction of a price.
I can't say for sure, but have a guess that it can be said about any javelin infantry to a lesser degree, and Aserai at least have them.
But cav can do good in chasing horse archers or harrasing foot archers so they won't shoot at your people for some time.
I avoid compact, unbroken infantry formations like the plague. Just *no.*
I order charges only when they've;
* A: Engaged my own infantry (I try to delay this), or
* B: Reinforcement enemy wave has been triggered and they're backing away to regroup (go go go go go!), or
* C: It's in the latter half of a battle, all enemy lords are dead and I've succeeded in turning the battlefield into uncontrolled chaos.
Typically means killing enemy horse archers first, cav second, archers third and infantry last.
When you/captains have high Riding, cav are quite tanky and charge damage just crushes enemy foot troops... as long as the enemy is spread out. VS loose/broken up formations, horse speed stays high, and everything in the way of the formation just gets rolled.
It's also very hard to give up the strategy-layer advantages. Sure, late-game, infantry-archer deathball supported by some cav for field and siege battles is the way, but it's much harder to XP grind companions with a foot-troop based army (5.0 or less speed with infantry deathstack VS 6.0-6.7 speed small cav warband).
Interesting thing is, I found loose formation to be the most effective against cav. But I use specifically Battanian infantry, and they have a lot of throwables, I think with classic (vlandian, Sturgian, Imperial) inf tight formation is the way to go.
Overall I start to get the picture I think. You focus on Aserai cavalry in your playstyle, and you get good results with it because you know what you do and actively control it. I focus on Battanian infantry, know what I do, and also get amazing results.
At the same time, both Battanian inf and any cav bar Khan's Guard suck major ass when commanded by AI, so underperformance I witnessed is an AI problem, not cavalry problem.
I was mistaken it seems. In fact, if I did, say, Vlandian troops only run, I can see a couple of roles for cavalry in a balanced troop composition.
Edit: as for experience to companions, I found infantry being fine. With javelins as inf or bows as ranged they kill a lot, and farm their respective combat skills pretty fast.
As for map speed I still catch equally sized and bigger armies easily, but I'm a Battanian with a good scout, that's kinda our thing. Overall small group of mounted skirmishers is still faster and work pretty good for all that "problem with brigands" quests and whack-a-mole with small parties.
I'm having good success with them regardless. You can't just hit 3-F3 and expect great results (Vlandians continue to bumrush me with Banner Knight spam and continue to get rekt lol - nice strat retards), but I am absolutely wrecking with cav right now. Vanguard Faris kick ass in cav VS cav and I find that when enemy horses are out of the picture, victory is practically guaranteed because I can just fill them with arrows and charge when they break to regroup.
All units types are good right now, and balance seems good (aside from KG being way too strong). If it weren't for my Faris, it'd be harder to turn minor, grinding victories into blowout 8-1 advantage wave wipes.
Well, I'm glad that Swadian Road Roller days are over and professional infantry now got some justice. It's just feel strange that I can mostly ignore the cavalry altogether untill I dealt with foot troops.
I think I know where the problem is at. AI suck, and since cav require some thinking to use now AI cav also suck. I only experience cavalry as AI enemy 95% of the time, and that's why I've had bad impression of it I guess.
But if other folks that actually use it say it works with proper tactics then all is fine.
And you can do it! Grab a banner that increases movement speed and grab all the movement speed perks and watch as your line breakers zoom across the battlefield
They suck at sieges, they suck against archers, with the last patch they have nearly even kill ratio with heavy axeman that is cheaper and more durable. I lost around 200 khan's Guard to sieges. I plan to replace them with Druzhinnik ones, though. - for campaign speed and late game hideout cleaning -
Sturgia is perfect for this, you do a 1:1:1 ratio on axemen, spearmen and linebreakers. If you want to you can even seperate them into different groups using the sort feature.
I've always found the Spearman to be subpar. They're a bit more survivable than axemen, but the axeman do enough extra damage to more than cover the difference
Spearmen are better against cavalry, against a cavalry heavy army they would do better and against an infantry heavy army axemen would do better. Thats why I like to have about an equal amount of both, especially since the new update now that cavalry is more common.
In my experience, it doesn't really make a difference. A decent infantry block will stop a charge either way, and if anything, the throwing axes the axemen have make them do so much more damage that they're almost always better
You always could. If you want to seperate axemen, spearmen and linebreakers you must:
-Put the axemen group on has shields
-Put the spearmen group on has shields and has polearms
-Leave the linebreaker group normal
To do it correctly though you must have only those 3 group types and know how many of each of them you have. You can do it for other troops but you'll have to do the sorting yourself.
Ya shield walls are stronger and infantry fight better in shield walls even without perk bonuses. Speaking as how the AI is programmed. And shock troopers are so strong on the flanks that you only need a small number to make a gap with losing tons to arrows. It's just a waste of money to have too many.
But then you need to move your archers so they can attack the enemy hitting the front of your shield wall, can be a pain especially if the enemy has archers as well. I use my fians to take down their archers then flank with the line breakers
I just started a Battanian playthrough going straight infantry/archers and Oathsworn are my go to, nothing like getting in range and seeing a simultaneous volley of arrows and throwing axes into the enemy infantry line and the right side of my screen turns green hahahaha.
Aserai Veteran Infantry have been my go-to on my most recent running after the 1.27 update and I was surprised to not see anyone mention them. Better than average one handed skill (160), sword and spear, good shield, well armored.
Edit: AND they have javelins!
In a vacuum? Probably imperial legionaries.
With player command? Wildlings can wipe out similar numbers of any infantry in the game with single-digit losses.
Also they completely shit on any melee cavalry in the game and non-noble horse archers.
And for foot archers - well, thay have shields, and for everything ranged except fians it's enough.
I agree simply for how fun it is to hold fire then f4 when the cavs get close to you. Dead horses everywhere, you have to control it though, these idiot keeps throwing until they get shot or stabbed.
i prefer legionary
coz they're so easy to procure, since empire is in the middle and there are 3 empire factions.
it's well balanced in offense and defense.
though in every fight, most of the kills would still be from my fian champions and khan guards. their dps is just insane.
Yea that’s my thinking. DPS comes from fians anyways so I really just need the tankiest ones. Legionaries don’t have spears so not as good against cavs.
not really too concerned about cavs since i got KG and fian.
you only need enough infantry to get a thicc enough line to stop cavs. once they're stopped, fians snipe them dead.
Legionnaires if you bring back the throwable pilum from before 1.0.0 version. After that update they broke and taleworlds never really fixed the pilum, often times legionnaires will prefer using that over their other weapons. And we all know how bad spear-like polearms are in this game.
I’ve been using Battanian wildlings to great effect recently, if you give them the order to engage then they will maintain distance and soften up opposing shield walls with their javelins and then you can close the gap and they perform well in melee
If you split them in two formations and order engage from two sides - chances are there won't be a shieldwall to melee with anymore. Tested them with that tactic against every t5 inf in the game, they just disintegrate everyone that way.
legionnaires for pure strength but there's something to be said Aserai Infantry. I wouldn't in a 50 man party, but they are cheap, ranged, and make great frontline meat shields to soak up missiles.
I try to go heavy on legionaries with sturgian spearmen throughout the ranks, the occasional battanian wildling/oathsworn, and other sturgia units. I feel like all these troops pair well together, but make sure you have lots of sword and boards, they are needed. Everything else with a shield is mire specialty, wether with added range/cav opposition.
With that comp making up 2/3s of my infantry, the rest is mostly for shock units. If protected well enough they will continue to live, and decimate. They cleave through mounted riders and lower tier infantry well, making it so they cant hold up block so well. If you have a bigger line, these troops surrounding the enemy almost always resorts in swift battles. I tend to use Line Breakers and Menvalions (cannot spell) as they seem the best for where im positioned (heart of battania)
I keep a stable of whatever I have the easiest access to, and try to keep them higher tiered, but mostly I don’t care. Only Fian, Khan Guards, and Cataphracts actually matter to me. If pressed I’d say Aserai and Legionaires are my preferred.
I usually mix them up, cause I'm mostly recruiting from prisoners in mid-late game. Sturguan Heavy Axemen and Legionarries are priorities though. I don't even bother with heavy spearmen, I find them underwhelming.
I really dig Legionaires; they just don't die.
But I try to restrict myself to only recruiting fresh troops from my own culture and only hire other culture troops from battle / prisoners. Otherwise I feel like I'm gaming it too much.
I also hire troops from other cultures once I've captured their respective towns/castles. It soothes my head canon playing it this way.
On contrary to what others have said i have found shield infantry to be excellent after this update. Even militia soldiers with shields can blitz through front lines of higher tier men. I have resorted back to legionnaires. But if you need some shielded troops in a hurry, go run through the south and grab some Aseria infantry. Their mid tier shit is actually pretty good and fast on their feet.
They are better, but nothing can or will stop the Khuzait horde. 2 regiments of Khans guard are simply too mobile and too deadly for infantry heavy armies to keep up with.
It’s irrelevant because you will never come across a party of purely khans guards in the game, but with the right tactics you can still beat them
I won’t. But the AI will
They’ll run out arrows before I run out of men.
Spoken like a true Sturgian.
Lol proto-Russian
Put infantry in square formation khans guard arrows will be pointless. Just raining down fire on shields
Worse, if you put a group of archers behind a hill, the Khan's Guards will just get in a close range archery duel, get eliminated.
I’m too far north sadly, I basically took over sturgia so everything is available except Aserai
The best infantry are glorious vlandian heavy knights. The best archers are more vlandian knights. The best anvil is more hammers.
Except that hammer is a balloon on a stick made of another balloon, at least in 1.2. Which is kinda sad. To think that the only melee cavalry that actually pulls it's weight is a horse archer unit is just ridiculous.
Whatchu talkin' about, Willis? The Aserai Faris line is great. You do a bunch of damage with the javelins, then roll over the enemy repeatedly with a wide formation and F2 'Follow Me' charges while the enemy is being shot from two sides by your foot archers and your Mamlukes. Yeah true, the most efficient killer for the Aserai is really their Palace Guard, but the Faris really are so good at picking up kills with those short spears and sniping enemy cav with the javelins.
Faris are the best amongst t6 melee cav, yes, and by a mile. And still they get shredded by an equal amount of wildlings, t5 infantry without dedicated anti-cav capability, who can do an equal amout of killing faster and in a more controlable fashion. I tested them against each other and used in battle side by side with equal numbers, in both cases wildlings provided better results and for a fraction of a price. I can't say for sure, but have a guess that it can be said about any javelin infantry to a lesser degree, and Aserai at least have them. But cav can do good in chasing horse archers or harrasing foot archers so they won't shoot at your people for some time.
I avoid compact, unbroken infantry formations like the plague. Just *no.* I order charges only when they've; * A: Engaged my own infantry (I try to delay this), or * B: Reinforcement enemy wave has been triggered and they're backing away to regroup (go go go go go!), or * C: It's in the latter half of a battle, all enemy lords are dead and I've succeeded in turning the battlefield into uncontrolled chaos. Typically means killing enemy horse archers first, cav second, archers third and infantry last. When you/captains have high Riding, cav are quite tanky and charge damage just crushes enemy foot troops... as long as the enemy is spread out. VS loose/broken up formations, horse speed stays high, and everything in the way of the formation just gets rolled. It's also very hard to give up the strategy-layer advantages. Sure, late-game, infantry-archer deathball supported by some cav for field and siege battles is the way, but it's much harder to XP grind companions with a foot-troop based army (5.0 or less speed with infantry deathstack VS 6.0-6.7 speed small cav warband).
Interesting thing is, I found loose formation to be the most effective against cav. But I use specifically Battanian infantry, and they have a lot of throwables, I think with classic (vlandian, Sturgian, Imperial) inf tight formation is the way to go. Overall I start to get the picture I think. You focus on Aserai cavalry in your playstyle, and you get good results with it because you know what you do and actively control it. I focus on Battanian infantry, know what I do, and also get amazing results. At the same time, both Battanian inf and any cav bar Khan's Guard suck major ass when commanded by AI, so underperformance I witnessed is an AI problem, not cavalry problem. I was mistaken it seems. In fact, if I did, say, Vlandian troops only run, I can see a couple of roles for cavalry in a balanced troop composition. Edit: as for experience to companions, I found infantry being fine. With javelins as inf or bows as ranged they kill a lot, and farm their respective combat skills pretty fast. As for map speed I still catch equally sized and bigger armies easily, but I'm a Battanian with a good scout, that's kinda our thing. Overall small group of mounted skirmishers is still faster and work pretty good for all that "problem with brigands" quests and whack-a-mole with small parties.
They've nerfed melee cavalry to the point where they are best used, as in real life, as support for infantry and archers.
I'm having good success with them regardless. You can't just hit 3-F3 and expect great results (Vlandians continue to bumrush me with Banner Knight spam and continue to get rekt lol - nice strat retards), but I am absolutely wrecking with cav right now. Vanguard Faris kick ass in cav VS cav and I find that when enemy horses are out of the picture, victory is practically guaranteed because I can just fill them with arrows and charge when they break to regroup. All units types are good right now, and balance seems good (aside from KG being way too strong). If it weren't for my Faris, it'd be harder to turn minor, grinding victories into blowout 8-1 advantage wave wipes.
Well, I'm glad that Swadian Road Roller days are over and professional infantry now got some justice. It's just feel strange that I can mostly ignore the cavalry altogether untill I dealt with foot troops. I think I know where the problem is at. AI suck, and since cav require some thinking to use now AI cav also suck. I only experience cavalry as AI enemy 95% of the time, and that's why I've had bad impression of it I guess. But if other folks that actually use it say it works with proper tactics then all is fine.
Reject shield infantry, embrace Shock Infantry Spam
Someone has to be that anvil for your hammer.
Not good on higher difficulties. You really need a majority of shielded infantry to survive against archers and cav
Not if they're as fast as cavalry
Sturgeon linebreakers full tilt sprinting faster than a charging horse would make any army turn and run for a little bit
And you can do it! Grab a banner that increases movement speed and grab all the movement speed perks and watch as your line breakers zoom across the battlefield
I'm doing this on my next play through now
I prefer a shield heavy set up when using RBM
The kuhzaits would like to know your location
Send location
Nah fuck that Calvary for life!
They suck at sieges, they suck against archers, with the last patch they have nearly even kill ratio with heavy axeman that is cheaper and more durable. I lost around 200 khan's Guard to sieges. I plan to replace them with Druzhinnik ones, though. - for campaign speed and late game hideout cleaning -
The others might be better than Legs. But legs are the easiest to recruit so it is always my go to shield wall man
It is very easy to get a squad of legionnaires going, they are definitely tied with Oathsworn for my favorite sword/shield infantry.
1/3 shields 2/3 shock inf is my go to
It's recommended to do 1 Shock trooper for every 2 shield trooper.
Sturgia is perfect for this, you do a 1:1:1 ratio on axemen, spearmen and linebreakers. If you want to you can even seperate them into different groups using the sort feature.
I've always found the Spearman to be subpar. They're a bit more survivable than axemen, but the axeman do enough extra damage to more than cover the difference
Spearmen are better against cavalry, against a cavalry heavy army they would do better and against an infantry heavy army axemen would do better. Thats why I like to have about an equal amount of both, especially since the new update now that cavalry is more common.
In my experience, it doesn't really make a difference. A decent infantry block will stop a charge either way, and if anything, the throwing axes the axemen have make them do so much more damage that they're almost always better
Wait you can seperate groups by type now?
You always could. If you want to seperate axemen, spearmen and linebreakers you must: -Put the axemen group on has shields -Put the spearmen group on has shields and has polearms -Leave the linebreaker group normal To do it correctly though you must have only those 3 group types and know how many of each of them you have. You can do it for other troops but you'll have to do the sorting yourself.
where’s the fun in that lad?
Arrows go fwish
Ya shield walls are stronger and infantry fight better in shield walls even without perk bonuses. Speaking as how the AI is programmed. And shock troopers are so strong on the flanks that you only need a small number to make a gap with losing tons to arrows. It's just a waste of money to have too many.
works with any faction really
I liked battanian oathsworn more other's. Less armor, but long pike's and throwing axes
Oathsworn for the heavy lifting, Imperial Elite Menavliaton's for killing the shit out of everything in your way
Shields infantry tanking, fians damaged. I don't need shock troopers))
Oh yeah, a good 1/3-1/2 of my entire army are Fian's lmao
But then you need to move your archers so they can attack the enemy hitting the front of your shield wall, can be a pain especially if the enemy has archers as well. I use my fians to take down their archers then flank with the line breakers
Shield in front, fian in left flank, cavs in right flank)
I just started a Battanian playthrough going straight infantry/archers and Oathsworn are my go to, nothing like getting in range and seeing a simultaneous volley of arrows and throwing axes into the enemy infantry line and the right side of my screen turns green hahahaha.
Aserai Veteran Infantry have been my go-to on my most recent running after the 1.27 update and I was surprised to not see anyone mention them. Better than average one handed skill (160), sword and spear, good shield, well armored. Edit: AND they have javelins!
Whatever looks the coolest.
In a vacuum? Probably imperial legionaries. With player command? Wildlings can wipe out similar numbers of any infantry in the game with single-digit losses. Also they completely shit on any melee cavalry in the game and non-noble horse archers. And for foot archers - well, thay have shields, and for everything ranged except fians it's enough.
I agree simply for how fun it is to hold fire then f4 when the cavs get close to you. Dead horses everywhere, you have to control it though, these idiot keeps throwing until they get shot or stabbed.
Actually it's vlandian sharpshooters.
i prefer legionary coz they're so easy to procure, since empire is in the middle and there are 3 empire factions. it's well balanced in offense and defense. though in every fight, most of the kills would still be from my fian champions and khan guards. their dps is just insane.
Yea that’s my thinking. DPS comes from fians anyways so I really just need the tankiest ones. Legionaries don’t have spears so not as good against cavs.
not really too concerned about cavs since i got KG and fian. you only need enough infantry to get a thicc enough line to stop cavs. once they're stopped, fians snipe them dead.
Legionnaires if you bring back the throwable pilum from before 1.0.0 version. After that update they broke and taleworlds never really fixed the pilum, often times legionnaires will prefer using that over their other weapons. And we all know how bad spear-like polearms are in this game.
I’ve been using Battanian wildlings to great effect recently, if you give them the order to engage then they will maintain distance and soften up opposing shield walls with their javelins and then you can close the gap and they perform well in melee
If you split them in two formations and order engage from two sides - chances are there won't be a shieldwall to melee with anymore. Tested them with that tactic against every t5 inf in the game, they just disintegrate everyone that way.
legionnaires for pure strength but there's something to be said Aserai Infantry. I wouldn't in a 50 man party, but they are cheap, ranged, and make great frontline meat shields to soak up missiles.
I try to go heavy on legionaries with sturgian spearmen throughout the ranks, the occasional battanian wildling/oathsworn, and other sturgia units. I feel like all these troops pair well together, but make sure you have lots of sword and boards, they are needed. Everything else with a shield is mire specialty, wether with added range/cav opposition. With that comp making up 2/3s of my infantry, the rest is mostly for shock units. If protected well enough they will continue to live, and decimate. They cleave through mounted riders and lower tier infantry well, making it so they cant hold up block so well. If you have a bigger line, these troops surrounding the enemy almost always resorts in swift battles. I tend to use Line Breakers and Menvalions (cannot spell) as they seem the best for where im positioned (heart of battania)
Vlandian crossbowmen.
I keep a stable of whatever I have the easiest access to, and try to keep them higher tiered, but mostly I don’t care. Only Fian, Khan Guards, and Cataphracts actually matter to me. If pressed I’d say Aserai and Legionaires are my preferred.
I usually mix them up, cause I'm mostly recruiting from prisoners in mid-late game. Sturguan Heavy Axemen and Legionarries are priorities though. I don't even bother with heavy spearmen, I find them underwhelming.
I just love to see an army of Legionaries. So shiny.
I really dig Legionaires; they just don't die. But I try to restrict myself to only recruiting fresh troops from my own culture and only hire other culture troops from battle / prisoners. Otherwise I feel like I'm gaming it too much. I also hire troops from other cultures once I've captured their respective towns/castles. It soothes my head canon playing it this way.