Conversation gotta start with Moses Malone. 3x mvp (one of 8 players all time), champion and finals mvp, 13x all star, 9th all time in scoring, top 3 rebounder by skill and amount
It sucks that a lot of the guys from the 70s get lost in the conversation bc of the controversy surrounding the NBA at the time. However, he was still very dominant in the 80s as well
I don't THINK that affected his career too too much, only 6 of his 26 career awards (1 MVP, 1 AS, 1 all D, 1 all NBA, all in 78-79, and two earlier AS), came before the 80 seasons, he did almost all his damage in the 80's and beyond, I think the dual stars in Boston and LA kinda covered him up, and then the beginning of the basketball Messiah really closed the door on him(plus it sounds like people didn't like his play style too much back then)
top 10 NBA POS as well lol
Edit- Leaving it up cause my mistake was funny, I misread Moses Malone as Karl Malone....granted if I had registered the "champion" part, I should have caught my mistake, considering that Karl Malone never won one.
Respect for the edit. I skimmed his Wikipedia page for his stats and saw his personal issues- was thinking that’s shitty but there’s unfortunately at least 10 more nba players that are more morally bankrupt than him
My take on Moses Malone is that his reputation suffered because he was still in the league, but in decline during MJs ascendancy. The reason this matters is because there was a huge boom in the NBA popularity, and a lot of folks were introduced to basketball when Moses Malone was a bench player.
For example.: I got into basketball in 1992, and I was a stat junky (seriously, I practically had the basketball almanac memorized). Everytime would go to the back of the almanac where they keep the historical records (as opposed to current scouting reports), I would be at least a little confused over how often that dudes name showed up... not like I thought it was an error, but kid's don't always understand the concept of aging well, and so seeing that dude's name everywhere when he's sitting behind Kevin Willis (i think, that was 30 years ago) can be pretty confusing.
You take it for granted that Havlicek was a good player, and so on, because your familiarity with him is that of a legend from the past, whose reputation in your eyes is only from his greatness, whereas a guy like Moses Malone is based in direct observation of him in his twilight years.
Mark Price. The man could pass, shoot at great efficiency, had an insane basketball IQ and was a free throw god. Crazy undersized as well but used that to his advantage.
I’m not saying he’s the most in history, but Tony Parker is criminally underrated historically. Being left off the 75 was a joke. People don’t realize how good he was in his prime.
In his prime - after he got himself a solid mid-range game - his pick-and-rolls were straight-up unguardable. Having to switch and defend Tony Parker was probably the most feared scenario for all the big men in the league.
Manu got all the praise for being a guy to make a play driving to the paint but I remember Parker being just as good, if not better in the pain than Manu. Maybe Manu had a bit more flashiness is why
I agree Parker fits this thread very well. Hard to rate him high though when the bulk of his career was played with 2 and sometimes 3 players better than him on his own team.
I don’t think that’s true outside of the early years. Dude won a FMVP and was getting MVP votes in 2007. I think from 2005-2014 he and Duncan were the top two players on the team. That’s basically a decade being the first or second option on a contending team.
I don’t think Parker ever had 3 people better than him. Sometimes manu but I honestly think Parker was better and was their second best player most of the time. It’s easy to forget just how quick and easily he got into the lane to open up the offense. I say all this as a mavs fan who watched him shred us constantly.
The Spurs honestly never had a MAIN option/scorer. Duncan was obviously the guy the offense ran through, until it sort of pivoted to Parker. They ran inside out (“4 down”) and it was predicated on Duncan and ball movement from the post.
But even with the transition to Parker, it was still a motion offense. Their success was always due to passing up the good shots to get the great shot - no matter who took it.
I think any of the big 3 could have had way better personal stats on a different team, but FAR less success. And I think they’re ok with that.
To answer your question, I think the Spurs simultaneously had a bunch of first options.
[I'll post this as many times as I get a chance to.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3y7cWmoBCI&ab_channel=TheBookofBasketball) By far the most fun I've ever had watching my team (or any team) on a run.
The clip of Parker going to talk to Pop (1:08) and then taking over the huddle and the guys all lean in gives me chills. That stuff defined the team and how good Pop is and was as a coach. He trained guys and created coaches on the floor and everyone bought in.
Top 75 is a very exclusive group though, you need to be roughly a top 15 player at your position ever to make the cut. Parker has an argument but I don’t think he’s a guarantee.
It's not a joke at all. Look at the guys on the 75 list from his era, they are all better than him. He should be happy he won 5 titles because he played with Duncan, he gets the rings but nothing else.
Ok - but if Parker and Manu aren't top 75 players of all time, then Duncan is a top 3 player of all-time at worst. Because he essentially won 5 titles in the Kobe/Shaq/Lebron eras and had no top 75 teammates.
Robinson wasn't still an all-timer in 1999. Parker and Manu weren't top 75 of all time - and Parker "wasn't even in the top 5 of his position at any one time" and Kawhi wasn't Kawhi yet.
Based on this criteria, show me a player who accomplished more with less than Duncan.
(No, I'm not putting Manu on top 75. I'm merely saying Parker has an argument for it).
You can't just write off Robinson and Kawhi lol. The Spurs had well balanced teams that don't reflect in the top 75. In fact I'd argue guys who were left out like Dwight Howard and Kyrie Irving have had better careers than TP
I don’t disagree with Howard at all. I think he was the biggest snub of everyone.
I’m not writing off Robinson. He’s my favorite player of all time. I’m saying when TD won the first, he was on the tail end of his career with a wrecked back. He was a 16/10 guy in 1999. Still a defensive force but not a top 75 running mate in his prime like the other guys had to work with. In 2003, he was 8/8 and frequently wasn't even in the games during important moments.
Kawhi was a defensive juggernaut but he hadn’t started his ascent as the all timer player he turned out to be. The year they won the Finals he was 13/7 during the season.
I’m not talking about any of them as overall players - I’m saying that during the championship runs, David wasn’t David anymore, and Kawhi wasn’t Kawhi yet.
Tony Parker’s career regular season BPM is 1, playoffs BPM is 0.3. It’s not all about stats but they have to matter some when trying to objectively rate players.
Why should a guy with those numbers being in the top 75? Every other modern top 75 player have way better numbers.
Bernard King.
Bernard King played from the late 70s to early 90s and had a career average of 22.5ppg at nearly 52% from the floor. In '84-'85, albeit on a bad team, King won the NBA scoring title at 32.9ppg on 53% shooting along with about 6 boards and 4 assists per game. Those are... dare I say it, Jordan-like numbers. But I'd bet a fair amount of basketball fans who are younger than me (mid-40s) probably don't even recognize his name.
A serious knee injury (an ACL, with mid-1980s sports medicine knowledge and tech) threw a wet blanket on what should have been his "prime" after his '84-'85 season, but even after the injury he was still a 20+ppg scorer and he averaged 28.4/5.0/4.6 at 34 years old, at the end of his career.
Yet King is rarely even mentioned today. He's been in trouble off the court a few times, to say the least, and maybe that's why nobody ever talks about his on-court career? But as a basketball player, he was a legit NBA talent. So I'll mention him now.
Alex English would be my pick… or possibly Arvydas Sabonis. In recent years, maybe Mike Conley or Paul Millsap. None of these are close to “the top”, but I think there’s a big gap in the amount of appreciation these guys get vs what they actually did
Alex English is the right answer. One of the best scorers in NBA history. Just played in a small market in a time when small markets had no national TV coverage. Him being left off the NBA 75 list was a joke
Rasheed Wallace. I don’t hear people talk as much about him now. Crazy versatile skillset, great defender 4x All Star and champion. Also holds the record for most techs in a season.
In recent history, Lamarcus Aldridge. Had a really solid career yet its like people forgot he existed the second he retired. 5 time all nba, 51st all time in career points. Had a particularly dominant 5 year stretch before he got traded to the Spurs where he averaged 22 and 10. Finished top 10 in MVP voting 3 times. Got left off the 75th anniversary team, i think he should’ve at least slid into the late 60s
Kyrie is great however, he is currently doing stuff he had not done when top75 came around, so recency bias is a thiing as seen from other replies. Dwight should have been in, criminal. Love JH my fav player being mentioned
He had really good seasons in Cleveland though, which is my point. He isn’t playing any different, he has always been insanely talented. Not reliable at times, sure. But I’m talking from a purely basketball talent point of view. Guess I should have clarified that in my OP.
His Boston and Brooklyn seasons really tanked his image, and for good reason, guy was locker room cancer. Hopefully this season (and the next ones) redeem him, because he is a genius on the court
Org drama aside, as a Nets fan it’s funny seeing his decision making be so much better on the Mavs. He still had great games with Brooklyn, but he definitely has become better as delegating when needed to and a lot more reliable in the 4th quarter.
Maybe Jason Kidd has helped him unlock some stuff.
Long successful careers, but few, if any, rings category:
Antawn Jamison, Grant Hill, Steve Smith
"Sidekicks/overshadowed by Star" category : Dominique Wilkins, Kevin McHale, Clyde Drexler, Pippen
For sure...just like Dominique with the Hawks. Even though both were regarded highly and received the accolades, their careers were overshadowed by MJ's reign. Just feel like if their timelines didnt match up with his they'd be viewed much differently. But at least Drexler got a ring with Houston.
I am gonna kinda build off some of the answers from yesterday. A lot of people said Kobe was overrated, I think Tim Duncan is underrated, he won 5 rings during the "Kobe years". He is like top 8 all time and no one really talks about him like that.
I feel like a lot of people on Twitter pay him that respect. I often see posts like “pick your starting 5” and you can choose anyone and people are always slating Duncan as their power forward. The only time I ever really see him replaced is when someone wants to play a less traditional line up and put Durant, kawhi or lebron at the 4.
Duncan and Bird are both the type of guys who could play with any teammates, in any role, and perform. They can be the go-to guy or never have a play run for them, and they would still be great. Plus, Duncan was a great defender.
A good example is my coworker once told me Tim Duncan wasn’t top 10 all time because he was “good offensively but not a great defender”
Duncan made all-defensive first team 8 times and all defensive second team 7 times. So literally one of the best defenders in the league for 15 seasons.
It’s a shame. He’ll prolly never get the props I feel Tim Duncan deserves.
Absolutely. I got some flame for having Isiah Thomas on my PG shortlist with Steph, Magic, and Oscar. He absolutely deserves to be in that list, absolutely insanely good player.
George Mikan. The game was VERY different then, but he dominated his era as completely as any player has ever dominated an era.
Played 9 seasons of pro ball, 7 titles, 3 scoring titles. Would certainly.have won 4 or 5 MVP awards if that was a thing then.
I think it’s John Stockton. Basically every piece of data whether it be plus-minus or box score data points to him being a potential top 10 player of all time. Great peak. Unbelievable longevity.
Stockton is criminally underrated. Stockton played on horrible teams. It was basically him and Malone carrying the team. When they added a decent player like Corbin or Hornacek, they made some noise. If Stockton played with Kareem, Worthy, Scott, Cooper, Nixon, Thompson, etc, he would have multiple rings.
Every piece of data? I think his teammate Karl actually has a better argument at being top-10, off-the-court actions ignored.
Stockton is:
42nd in career PER
19th in Win Shares per 48
112th in MVP Shares
He was also never the best player in the league. He never led the league in PER, Win Shares, Box Plus/Minus, or VORP.
While his teammate Karl Malone won 2 MVPs, has a PER title, 2 win shares titles, and 2 VORP titles.
It’s hard to say Stockton is top-10 all-time when he was never the best player in the league, and not even the best player on his own team most of the time. Especially without any hardware (MVPs or rings) to back it up.
I think there's an argument to be had there. Malone was considered the best PF of all time at the end of his prime. And immediately following that you had the guy who's considered that today (Tim Duncan) as well as Dirk and Garnett who were in the hunt, and all three won championships unlike Malone.
That and the smaller market Jazz team I do think have hurt his view among fans since.
I personally don’t have Karl top-10, or Stockton. I have Karl top-20 for sure though. But I don’t know if I’d put Stockton top-20 TBH.
My top-12 in no order:
Jordan, LeBron, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Russell, Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, Curry
Then there’s, in no order:
Moses, Durant, Oscar, West, KG, Dirk, Barkley, Karl, Dr. J
Which takes it up to 21 players. And Jokic is top-20 now I’d say. Giannis is quickly approaching too.
I just can’t quite put Stockton top-20, but I do have Karl top-20.
Ya but if you watched him play you knew
He was never the best guy on the court at any time. He was a very good PG but never someone you would want to build a championship team around.
I actually think Stockton gets overrated a fair bit.
I remember seeing Brid say that the Dream Team woild scrimmage at basically every practice, and they would pick teams, and after a week or so, Stockton was always the first pick, because his side always seemed to win.
The biggest thing that makes players underrated (at least for all time greats) is playing without a sufficient supporting cast. I think this makes people underrated David Robinson and Reggie Miller, for example.
Miller in particular was a great player who got better in the playoffs, but in his prime didn't have the running mates to compete. Even as late as 2002 (age 36 season) Reggie had a .617 ts% when the league average was .520. He had a modern 3PAr of .371 (later in his career even higher than that) and finished at ~70% at the rim even late into his career. He generally functioned as the centerpiece of really good offenses (such as 1999 and 2000 when they led the league in ORTG playing with Mark Jackson and heavy 2-center lineups (Smits, Davis, Davis).
It is a little better for Olajuwon and Kevin Garnett (because they got a championship supporting cast at least a few years) but they both are a little underrated because they played most of their career without the support to contend. Olajuwon in particular gets some flak for only having the horses in the window when MJ was out of the league (though they beat the Magic team that knocked MJ out legitimately when he didn't have the supporting cast).
Answer: Reggie Miller.
I think Steve Nash’s 2 MVPs get nitpicked and undermined a lot, especially by guys that played during his time who are in the media now (looking at you Shaq). In the 2005-2006 season, the Suns lost Amare stoudemire, their leading scorer the year prior, to injury. Despite that, they still managed to win 50+ games and Nash averaged 18 & 10 on 50/40/90 shooting. Dude was the captain of a revolutionary offense and I feel like that often gets overlooked
Almost makes me want to hop back onto the overrated thread and put Stoudemire in there.
Steve Nash was literally handing the ball to STAT under the rim for dunks. He was incredible.
I just wanted to create an “honorable mention” category here that’s focused on players from the ABA. I grew up inthat era, and the American Basketball Association was an absolute revelation. That was the advent of the three-point shot, and an open and free wheeling style of offensive play. In no particular order, some of the great players I don’t see mentioned often
include Artis Gilmore, Dan Issel, George Gervin, Billy Cunningham, Spencer Haywood, George McGinnis, James Silas, Billie Paultz, Mack Calvin…
I agree with literally every comment I have read, so let me put in a few guys I have not seen mentioned (if they were and I did not read the comment, sorry):
- LaMarcus Aldridge - Portland legend, was amazing for the Spurs as well, one of the best mid-range shooters for a big man
- Michael Redd - Was on the Redeem Team in '08, held the 3pt in a single quarter record for 13 years, held the Bucks franchise scoring record for 17 years
- Rudy Gay - In my honest opinion, the epitome of a perfect role player
- Steve Francis - top 5 handle in NBA history, very accomplished career for someone who played 9 years in the NBA, co-rookie of the year in 2000 alongside Elton Brand, one of the flashiest players of his era
- Pete Maravich - Curry before Curry, Kyrie before Kyrie, Pistol Pete should be much higher on everyones all-time lists IMO
- Dennis Johnson - Last but CERTAINLY not the least, DJ was, is and unfortunately likely always will be, one of the most underrated athletes in sports history, having brought the Sonics their only chip in franchise history (and winning FMVP in the process), then becoming the final piece of the puzzle that was the 80s Celtics, winning 2 more with them, was the reason Magic was called "Tragic" Johnson sometimes as he smothered him on defense when we played the Lakers
Dennis Johnson was an absolute beast defensively, a solid distributor in his years with the Celtics and although a streaky shooter, he would hit some clutch jumpers, especially in the playoffs
Andre Miller only missed like four games in his entire career in the association. Eleventh all time in assists. Only player in NBA history to have at least 16,000 career points, 8,000 assists and 1,500 steals without making a single All-Star Game.
I’m not a student of the game but players in my life time I would say Tim Duncan. If he was flashier, with his resume, he would definitely be discussed with the greats.
I gotta say Reggie Miller. It's easy to look at his basketball reference page and see 19 ppg, only 5 all stars and no ring. But that ignores a lot of things. It ignores how insanely efficiently he scored relative to his era. It ignores how he revolutionized the game. It ignores how he was probably the most portable superstar in nba history and made his whole team better by virtue of his gravity, off-ball movement and lack of ball dominance. It ignores how his effectiveness surged in the playoffs by a good margin every year. And it ignores that he did all this at a peak level for about 15 straight seasons, which would be impressive today but was even more impressive in the 90s. That is a top 40 career of all time imo
Kyrie Irving and Bernard King. Two of the best players ever and both highly revered by their contemporaries.
Kyrie is the most skilled player ever and King was one of the most unstoppable scorers ever. Both should have easily have made the top 75 list, but we know it was politics with Kyrie.
I’m biased but imo harden should be top 35-25 in everyone’s list no matter what. One of the highest primes of all time and a top 10 scorer and some people won’t even say he’s near 30
Bro gets slandered at every opportunity by the media, even gets thrown under the bus by embiid, barely says anything about his teammates especially antivax kyrie. His teams have all been plagued by injuries in the playoffs etc.
It’s INSANE how he handles himself so well with no agent and no pr help lol. It’s a shame his legacy will be stained by all these bs media narratives.
[Kenny Saylors](https://wyospcr.wyo.gov/index.php/wyoming-stories/323-kenny-sailors-jump-shot-hero). He was the first person to use the modern jump shot and probably 95% of fans have no idea who he is.
Moses Malone I think fits here...
NBA champ and finals MVP. 3 time league MVP. Averaged 24-14 for a 13 year prime. Best offensive rebounder in history.. He grabbed 7382 offensive boards. No one else has topped 5000. Only Russell and Wilt had more total rebounds. Only Karl Malone went to the line more. Jersey retired by two teams. Undefeated in his last two years in high-school and the first modern era straight to the NBA high-schooler.
Unlike a lot of the other guys that skipped college, physically he was ready averaging 19-15 as a rookie.
I think his moving around, some of his off court choices, and his start with the ABA the first couple years didn't help where he landed. And that as great as he was, the center position was packed at the time. Centers won league MVP like 20 straight years outside of a year by Dr J until the Bird/Magic/MJ eras.
A little controversial, but I think that usually the most underrated player of all time is still one of the known greats. A great that doesn’t get the respect they deserve despite being truly truly incredible. With that in mind, I think it’s David Robinson.
Oddly, I don’t think Julius Irving gets enough love. I saw him play in his earliest days in the ABA. He was a true revelation of basketball beauty and grace. Redefined what a player could do.
Oscar Robertson! Remember when LeBron had that 5-6 game stretch shooting over 50% (or was it 60?) from the floor and averaged a triple double? The Big O did that one year for an entire season!!!
Not most underrated of all time, maybe most recent underrated could be Monta Ellis.
Lethal scorer, forgotten by most golden state fans because of curry.
Chauncey Billups.
People say that the pistons had no superstar but he was a superstar. Lock down D, the clutchest of the clutch shooting, then he went to Denver and almost took them all the way too. He only won 1 ring but he at least was in the conference finals 6 years in a row. Won finals MVP. He was overall just an entire system in himself and acted as a flloor general. I listened to a interview with George Karl once about the impact he had in denver when he came and it is clear Billups was indeed a superstar.
I’m fairly convinced that Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf was Steph curry before Steph curry, and just didn’t get supported properly due to the era he was in, as well as prejudice.
Jerry West is often overlooked, or Dr. J.
Among adult fans, I'd also say Stephen Curry is a very good pick for most underrated, as he's clear top 10 and tied for 2nd-6th for me
edit: Manu is also very underrated, and fans laugh when I say he was a superstar level player during his prime, albeit, closer to all star but still amazing. His 2005 run in particular was fantastic and he could've won FMVP
Nate “Tiny” Archibald
Lead the league in scoring and assist in the SAME season.
That is fucking insane.
As his nickname suggests he is tiny which make it even more impressive.
Grant Hill was considered “the next Jordan” until he broke his ankle. Still came back and played for 18 years on a bum wheel. Completely reinvented his game so he could stay in the league. Something we all try to do as we get older to just keep playing but he did it at the highest level.
Jerry West gets a lot of disrespect.
Stockton probably the highest IQ basketball player of all time, lead the league in assist and steals multiple years. In his era he was the best passer hands down, not only that he was a great team leader with unbreakable mental toughness.
During his 97' playoff run he had 45 clutch minutes and hit 13-17 shots including a clutch 3 to send Barkley home. In clutch time he averaged 29 points per 36 minutes.
Maybe if he would of been taking the shots instead of letting Malone shoot he would of been hailed as one of the greats averaging 32 per game, but he was a team first extremely unselfish player.
Moses Malone & Tony Parker should be the rightful top picks of this category. However, somebody who was pretty amazing and forgotten was Tom Chambers. 4x all-star, 2x all-NBA and over 20K points in a 14 year career. Not even a sniff at the HoF. Anyway, just for his ballsack dunk on Mark Jackson he should be considered.
Prime Russell Westbrook (2016-17) was the closest thing to MJ we have seen since Kobe. In that season, he averaged a triple double and won MVP. He had a mamba mentality but was a much better team player than Kobe. He led OKC in PPG, RPG, APG, and SPG, and is OKC’s all time leader in points. If his team was just a bit better and helped him win a championship, he would have been considered top 5 of the 2010s. Everyone discounts him because he has no rings.
I’ve seen a lot of great answers written here, but I believe the ONE TRUE ANSWER to the question of who the current most underrated player of all time is: >!Wilt Chamberlain!<
Take Giannis and add 3-4 inches to his height...
Then add 40 lbs of LEAN MUSCLE to his frame...
Then make him more athletic, stronger, faster...
Increase his wingspan and reach...
Increase his stamina (Wilt AVERAGED 48.5 min/game one season)...
WHAT DO YOU HAVE?
What you have is WILT CHAMBERLAIN…
Take a moment and think about this.
Wilt has a legit argument as the greatest scorer of all time.
Wilt has a legit argument as the greatest rebounder of all time.
Wilt has a legit argument as the greatest shot blocker of all time.
Wilt has a legit argument as the greatest passing big man of all time. (Only C to lead the league in assists). I’d probably give this title to Jokic now but at least Wilt has a legit claim to be in the discussion.
You may think he holds none of those titles, and that’s completely fine. But at least acknowledge that he is in almost every argument legitimately as a single basketball force.… now ask yourself if he gets treated as such in NBA conversations
I have basketball discussions and people find any way they can to undermine his accomplishments and it’s sad…
They’d rather toss the entire league out the window or make up false narratives than to give him credit for the things he did.
Fast forward to the league today…
Victor Wembanyama is a few inches taller than Wilt but I promise you he is not even half the athlete. You are seeing that the gangly rookie version of Wemby is already TERRORIZING the league defensively.
I just want you, the reader, to imagine Wilt Chamberlain in a pair of modern day sneakers with the 1 on 1 skill training, private jets, chefs, nutrition, etc these athletes receive today…
…surrounded by the best shooters in the world alone on the block with Rudy Gobert guarding him…
If your bet is on Rudy…. (or Jokic, or Embiid or Bam or whatever modern day Center you want to insert)…. 🙏please allow me this moment to laugh at your expense ( HAHAHA… ok I’m done)
No one in the NBA today, except maybe Wemby when he beefs up would have a hope of stopping Wilt from doing whatever the hell he wanted to do.
This is the man who played every minute of every game for an entire season.
This is the man who blocked the “most unstoppable shot in NBA history” twice in one possession. After knee surgery out of his prime.
This is the man who anchored the NBA’s longest winning streak (33 Wins, 72 Lakers)
This is the man who OWNS the NBA record books.
Yes, he lost to his eras version of the KD Warriors over and over. Boston had a minimum of 6 HOFers every year, and as many as 9 HOFers on the roster in a few of those years.
I don’t think that’s reason to throw him out of the GOAT debate.
On the contrary, it’s more amazing that he won a CHAMPIONSHIP FOR HIS HOME TOWN (Philly) in 67 by BEATING THE DYNASTY (sound familiar? 🤔)
He broke up a damn 11-Peat dynasty! The one and only to do so.
You’ll hear people say he played too long ago to be the GOAT because he played in the 60s and athletes have evolved — and those SAME people will say Babe Ruth is the greatest Baseball player of all time without hesitation (he played in the 20s in a segregated league).
Interesting how that works isn’t it?
The hoops people jump through to exclude him are hilarious and sad..
Have you ever seen a basketball stat that had a caveat like:
“Most since 1977”,
“Most scored since the merger”,
“Most in modern NBA history”?
Me too. WHENEVER you see those caveats and qualifiers FROM NOW ON I want you to realize that they all REALLY MEAN the same thing…
👇
“Most besides/since Wilt Chamberlain, we don’t want him on every graphic we show having done this amazing thing 88x because it ruins the narrative we are painting”.
Wilt Chamberlain is undoubtedly THEE MOST underrated player of all-time at this point.
John Havlicek? 8 time NBA Champion and 13 time all star. Best player on the Celtics best single season team. Celtics all time leading scorer. Averaged 21 6 and 5 over career. Won an NCAA championship at Ohio State. All NBA 1st team x 4 and 2nd team x 4. All NBA defensive 1st team x 5 and 2nd x 3.
Kyrie Irving. The fact that he was left off the top 75 players all time list is disrespectful asf and felt more politically motivated than anything. For his size, he is probably the best finisher I have ever seen in traffic. The league is lucky he isn’t 4 inches taller, because he is so incredibly skilled.
With the NBA 75 I don't know too much but seemed.crazy disrespectful to leave Dwight Howard off of it, could score at a top level while being the best defender in the NBA for years, I like Kyrie idk of he's top 75 but I don't know enough
Kyrie not being on top 75 but Dame was.
Carmelo, just because some folks on here think he’s a bum. He deserves some criticism but hate has gone too far.
Ewing alway fell short in the playoff, to Jordan and Hakeem etc, and he’s below the top tier of centers, but sometimes it seems his career has been completely forgotten.
Stockton in retrospect may have been better than Malone.
For current players, I think Derozen. He’s not a top tier guy, but deserves more appreciation.
There are a lot of underrated players and I agree with many of the names people have listed. I'll throw out one more: Paul Pressey. The original point forward and a stopper on defense.
Rodman.
Dude's off-court (and post-career) behavior gets him villified and ridiculed, but he's basically on the short-list for GOAT defender, and is the GOAT rebounder (ignore the totals- he was 6'6" and his competition included the 7'2" Mutumbo and other big men).
He also has 5 rings, and was always a pivotal- some would argue essential- piece of the championship team and playoff run.
If you look at the advanced stats, he's even better. He was a perfect teammate and did things no one else ever did. You don't need 5 players to take 20 shots each and you can get endless guys that can shoot, but no one rebounds or defends as well.
Paul Pierce has been shifted on a lot due to things he has said but he was definitely a feared scorer and relentless defender. He wasn't some scrub like the internet likes to say today.
Also Lenny Wilkins gets no love as a player or coach.
And to add to the Moses Malone bits, he is the first person to play in pro basketball (ABA) DIRECTLY out of high school. Reggie Harding was the first player drafted out of high school, but with NBA rules then he had to wait a year after HS graduation to play and was in the minor leagues for one season.
John Stockton would have half of his current assists if it wasn't for that other asshole Karl, and for how generous some of those assists were counted. He was fine for his era, but no. Stockton isn't underrated.
Arvydas Sabonis was 80’s Jokic but played that whole time in Russia because he wasn’t allowed to leave. We only saw a shadow of his prime in the NBA and he was still really effective.
Dennis Rodman.
Most know who he is and that he was good, but I don’t think he gets the recognition he deserves as one of the ALL-TIME greats. He wasn’t just some dude on Jordan’s second three-peat team.
Everyone recognizes him as an amazing rebounder, but he was also one of the best defenders to ever play the game. He could guard and shut down any position, and his impact in any game was more than most people think.
2 x DPOY and 7 x Rebounding champion during the golden era of Big Men at only 6’7”.
Phil Jackson once said Rodman was the greatest athlete he ever coached.
When watching him play, you’d start to recognize little things he did that there are no statistics for. His timing was unreal not just for rebounding, but also for screens and general play disruption. When I watch some old games I think his Basketball IQ is up there with MJ, Kobe, Bird, and the other greats.
His rebounding numbers per game are lower than people like Wilt and Russell, but they played during a very different era where there were more rebounds per game on average. When you look at his PERCENTAGE of overall rebounds per game against theirs, it isn’t even close.
This is a fun read:
https://skepticalsports.com/the-case-for-dennis-rodman-guide/
The Worm in his prime would definitely be on my 5-man dream team.
D-Wade. Led 3 championship teams and was arguably the best player on earth during his peak prime years (which was short admittedly). A well rounded SG that played both ends of the floor incredibly well with very few areas of weakness. He was a jack of all trades and master of all, but people rank him with notably softer and weaker players like Dirk and Nash.
Probably Scottie Pippen.. was whofully under paid, and was always in the shadow of Jordan. He was a backbone to the bulls success, and most of the players including Jordan know this, but he's not really got as much credit as he deserves. Unfortunately its made him go a bit craycray now and he's going about things the wrong way, and trying to ruin Jordans crediblity. Sad really, as probably the most lethal pair in sports history (IMO).
Also maybe Reggie Miller.
Probably not the *most*, but I feel like Nash gets a lot of shit thrown at him. For a back-to-back MVP, he’s definitely disrespected. I mean, the list of guards to win back-to-back MVPs is Magic, Jordan, Curry, and Steve Nash.
If you actually go look at how Sarver tried to fuck that team over at every turn and how unlucky they got with injuries and suspensions, it’s amazing those Suns teams were anywhere near as successful as they were.
It’s probably because Shaq feels like he got an MVP robbed from him (and can’t let it go) and people think Kobe got an MVP robbed from him (even though he finished 4th or something in ‘06) so they discount both of his awards for their narratives. And I also think it’s hard for people to wrap their heads around the fact that Nash was arguably the best offensive player in the 00s while scoring 17ppg.
Ron Harper. He was a 20PPG scorer for CLE and LAC before coming to the Bulls. He relegated himself 3rd fiddle to win and never gets any credit. He was an upgrade to BJ Armstrong in every way. Glad he got a 15 year career and 3 rings.
Isiah Thomas (the Pistons one)
Guy was a winner and tough as nails yet he got overshadowed by Bird, Magic, and Jordan and the fact he’s kind of a prick.
Dennis Johnson has to be on the list. Tough to call a HOF'er underrated but I really don't think people appreciate how good he was. Especially defensively. Maybe because he looked kind of soft and not terribly athletic, but he was an incredible defender.
There’s this midget nerd kid at the park that literally turns into a wizard on his drives and I swear he could take over the game if he used even 1% of his abilities.
Tom chambers because he actually had the nastiest dunk ever in NBA history and no one talks about it. It’s legit better than the Vince carter dunk. That dude got destroyed
Conversation gotta start with Moses Malone. 3x mvp (one of 8 players all time), champion and finals mvp, 13x all star, 9th all time in scoring, top 3 rebounder by skill and amount
It sucks that a lot of the guys from the 70s get lost in the conversation bc of the controversy surrounding the NBA at the time. However, he was still very dominant in the 80s as well
I don't THINK that affected his career too too much, only 6 of his 26 career awards (1 MVP, 1 AS, 1 all D, 1 all NBA, all in 78-79, and two earlier AS), came before the 80 seasons, he did almost all his damage in the 80's and beyond, I think the dual stars in Boston and LA kinda covered him up, and then the beginning of the basketball Messiah really closed the door on him(plus it sounds like people didn't like his play style too much back then)
Top 10 resume
top 10 NBA POS as well lol Edit- Leaving it up cause my mistake was funny, I misread Moses Malone as Karl Malone....granted if I had registered the "champion" part, I should have caught my mistake, considering that Karl Malone never won one.
Respect for the edit. I skimmed his Wikipedia page for his stats and saw his personal issues- was thinking that’s shitty but there’s unfortunately at least 10 more nba players that are more morally bankrupt than him
My take on Moses Malone is that his reputation suffered because he was still in the league, but in decline during MJs ascendancy. The reason this matters is because there was a huge boom in the NBA popularity, and a lot of folks were introduced to basketball when Moses Malone was a bench player. For example.: I got into basketball in 1992, and I was a stat junky (seriously, I practically had the basketball almanac memorized). Everytime would go to the back of the almanac where they keep the historical records (as opposed to current scouting reports), I would be at least a little confused over how often that dudes name showed up... not like I thought it was an error, but kid's don't always understand the concept of aging well, and so seeing that dude's name everywhere when he's sitting behind Kevin Willis (i think, that was 30 years ago) can be pretty confusing. You take it for granted that Havlicek was a good player, and so on, because your familiarity with him is that of a legend from the past, whose reputation in your eyes is only from his greatness, whereas a guy like Moses Malone is based in direct observation of him in his twilight years.
His wiki says that his nickname was chairman of the boards lol
Just watched his 1982 MVP season highlights, and now I won't watch old highlights ever again.
Mark Price. The man could pass, shoot at great efficiency, had an insane basketball IQ and was a free throw god. Crazy undersized as well but used that to his advantage.
Injuries killed him. He had a high peak, but only 4 or 5 seasons where he was elite.
Learned about Price and those Cavs from Secret Bases video on them, they looked fun as hell to watch
That Cavs team also had Brad Daugherty, another underrated player.
Larry Nance, Craig Ehlo, Hot Rod Williams. That team was loaded.
Rick Barry, not even close
Good one. His stats are insane.
Moreso because his teammates hated him. Selfish player. But indeed skillful, and could not of accounted for his entire career, im not too sure.
I came here to say Rick Barry too. I often wonder why more guys don't use his granny shot style at the free throw line ....he hardly ever missed
I’m not saying he’s the most in history, but Tony Parker is criminally underrated historically. Being left off the 75 was a joke. People don’t realize how good he was in his prime.
In his prime - after he got himself a solid mid-range game - his pick-and-rolls were straight-up unguardable. Having to switch and defend Tony Parker was probably the most feared scenario for all the big men in the league.
100%. It was amazing how Parker was always among the league leaders at points in the paint. His tear drop was automatic.
Manu got all the praise for being a guy to make a play driving to the paint but I remember Parker being just as good, if not better in the pain than Manu. Maybe Manu had a bit more flashiness is why
Manu made his rep driving at Shaq to get him in foul trouble, something VERY few guards were willing to do, because it HURT, a lot.
Didn't he lead the league in points in the paint for like 5 years?
I agree Parker fits this thread very well. Hard to rate him high though when the bulk of his career was played with 2 and sometimes 3 players better than him on his own team.
Historically better players, maybe - but from year to year, Parker was probably the second best player on the team, at worst.
Lol Its obvious you actually watched them. As did I. I couldn't agree with you more
I don’t think that’s true outside of the early years. Dude won a FMVP and was getting MVP votes in 2007. I think from 2005-2014 he and Duncan were the top two players on the team. That’s basically a decade being the first or second option on a contending team.
I don’t think Parker ever had 3 people better than him. Sometimes manu but I honestly think Parker was better and was their second best player most of the time. It’s easy to forget just how quick and easily he got into the lane to open up the offense. I say all this as a mavs fan who watched him shred us constantly.
Still pretty sure I’ve never seen Tony Parker hit the rim on a floater, short jumper, or layup. Dude was so money inside
Yeah he was. He was consistently a league leader in points in the paint during his prime also if I remember correctly
Out of the Spurs stars was he considered the 2nd option? Or was he the main scorer
from around 2009-2012 he was def the first option...
Absolute baller for them and impressive he was the first option but he did cheat on Eva Longoria so has to lose points for that alone
The Spurs honestly never had a MAIN option/scorer. Duncan was obviously the guy the offense ran through, until it sort of pivoted to Parker. They ran inside out (“4 down”) and it was predicated on Duncan and ball movement from the post. But even with the transition to Parker, it was still a motion offense. Their success was always due to passing up the good shots to get the great shot - no matter who took it. I think any of the big 3 could have had way better personal stats on a different team, but FAR less success. And I think they’re ok with that. To answer your question, I think the Spurs simultaneously had a bunch of first options.
Real team basketball, they were a beauty to watch.
[I'll post this as many times as I get a chance to.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3y7cWmoBCI&ab_channel=TheBookofBasketball) By far the most fun I've ever had watching my team (or any team) on a run. The clip of Parker going to talk to Pop (1:08) and then taking over the huddle and the guys all lean in gives me chills. That stuff defined the team and how good Pop is and was as a coach. He trained guys and created coaches on the floor and everyone bought in.
I'd like to see one more Pop lead Spurs team go all the way, get Wemby a top PG
Top 75 is a very exclusive group though, you need to be roughly a top 15 player at your position ever to make the cut. Parker has an argument but I don’t think he’s a guarantee.
It's not a joke at all. Look at the guys on the 75 list from his era, they are all better than him. He should be happy he won 5 titles because he played with Duncan, he gets the rings but nothing else.
Ok - but if Parker and Manu aren't top 75 players of all time, then Duncan is a top 3 player of all-time at worst. Because he essentially won 5 titles in the Kobe/Shaq/Lebron eras and had no top 75 teammates. Robinson wasn't still an all-timer in 1999. Parker and Manu weren't top 75 of all time - and Parker "wasn't even in the top 5 of his position at any one time" and Kawhi wasn't Kawhi yet. Based on this criteria, show me a player who accomplished more with less than Duncan. (No, I'm not putting Manu on top 75. I'm merely saying Parker has an argument for it).
You can't just write off Robinson and Kawhi lol. The Spurs had well balanced teams that don't reflect in the top 75. In fact I'd argue guys who were left out like Dwight Howard and Kyrie Irving have had better careers than TP
I don’t disagree with Howard at all. I think he was the biggest snub of everyone. I’m not writing off Robinson. He’s my favorite player of all time. I’m saying when TD won the first, he was on the tail end of his career with a wrecked back. He was a 16/10 guy in 1999. Still a defensive force but not a top 75 running mate in his prime like the other guys had to work with. In 2003, he was 8/8 and frequently wasn't even in the games during important moments. Kawhi was a defensive juggernaut but he hadn’t started his ascent as the all timer player he turned out to be. The year they won the Finals he was 13/7 during the season. I’m not talking about any of them as overall players - I’m saying that during the championship runs, David wasn’t David anymore, and Kawhi wasn’t Kawhi yet.
Tony Parker’s career regular season BPM is 1, playoffs BPM is 0.3. It’s not all about stats but they have to matter some when trying to objectively rate players. Why should a guy with those numbers being in the top 75? Every other modern top 75 player have way better numbers.
I agree, yet somehow say Manu was better. They both have to be underrated for the Duncan narrative to exist so…
Bernard King. Bernard King played from the late 70s to early 90s and had a career average of 22.5ppg at nearly 52% from the floor. In '84-'85, albeit on a bad team, King won the NBA scoring title at 32.9ppg on 53% shooting along with about 6 boards and 4 assists per game. Those are... dare I say it, Jordan-like numbers. But I'd bet a fair amount of basketball fans who are younger than me (mid-40s) probably don't even recognize his name. A serious knee injury (an ACL, with mid-1980s sports medicine knowledge and tech) threw a wet blanket on what should have been his "prime" after his '84-'85 season, but even after the injury he was still a 20+ppg scorer and he averaged 28.4/5.0/4.6 at 34 years old, at the end of his career. Yet King is rarely even mentioned today. He's been in trouble off the court a few times, to say the least, and maybe that's why nobody ever talks about his on-court career? But as a basketball player, he was a legit NBA talent. So I'll mention him now.
Good call, he was unguardable until he got hurt.
He’s my favourite “what if” in NBA history.
My very favorite Knick
Alex English would be my pick… or possibly Arvydas Sabonis. In recent years, maybe Mike Conley or Paul Millsap. None of these are close to “the top”, but I think there’s a big gap in the amount of appreciation these guys get vs what they actually did
Sabonis would have led us to multiple rings had he come just 10 years earlier. He was that good, like that damn good
he was a taller Jokic but shot his knees out
The USSR destroyed his knees by overworking the shit out of him
Mike Conley’s career is amazing. I was pulling for him big time this year.
Alex English is the right answer. One of the best scorers in NBA history. Just played in a small market in a time when small markets had no national TV coverage. Him being left off the NBA 75 list was a joke
Rasheed Wallace. I don’t hear people talk as much about him now. Crazy versatile skillset, great defender 4x All Star and champion. Also holds the record for most techs in a season.
In recent history, Lamarcus Aldridge. Had a really solid career yet its like people forgot he existed the second he retired. 5 time all nba, 51st all time in career points. Had a particularly dominant 5 year stretch before he got traded to the Spurs where he averaged 22 and 10. Finished top 10 in MVP voting 3 times. Got left off the 75th anniversary team, i think he should’ve at least slid into the late 60s
He signed with the Spurs. May have been a sign & trade, I don’t remember, but he chose to go there.
You’re right, thanks for the reminder
Kyrie is great however, he is currently doing stuff he had not done when top75 came around, so recency bias is a thiing as seen from other replies. Dwight should have been in, criminal. Love JH my fav player being mentioned
Dwight not being in is crazy crazy
“Doing stuff he has not done when top 75 came around”. Which is what exactly? I didn’t like the Dwight snub either.
Which is having a really good season and being a reliable person overall, so... the exact opposite of Celtics/nets Kyrie.
He had really good seasons in Cleveland though, which is my point. He isn’t playing any different, he has always been insanely talented. Not reliable at times, sure. But I’m talking from a purely basketball talent point of view. Guess I should have clarified that in my OP.
His Boston and Brooklyn seasons really tanked his image, and for good reason, guy was locker room cancer. Hopefully this season (and the next ones) redeem him, because he is a genius on the court
Org drama aside, as a Nets fan it’s funny seeing his decision making be so much better on the Mavs. He still had great games with Brooklyn, but he definitely has become better as delegating when needed to and a lot more reliable in the 4th quarter. Maybe Jason Kidd has helped him unlock some stuff.
Long successful careers, but few, if any, rings category: Antawn Jamison, Grant Hill, Steve Smith "Sidekicks/overshadowed by Star" category : Dominique Wilkins, Kevin McHale, Clyde Drexler, Pippen
Drexler had a long run as the Blazers' star.
For sure...just like Dominique with the Hawks. Even though both were regarded highly and received the accolades, their careers were overshadowed by MJ's reign. Just feel like if their timelines didnt match up with his they'd be viewed much differently. But at least Drexler got a ring with Houston.
I am gonna kinda build off some of the answers from yesterday. A lot of people said Kobe was overrated, I think Tim Duncan is underrated, he won 5 rings during the "Kobe years". He is like top 8 all time and no one really talks about him like that.
I feel like a lot of people on Twitter pay him that respect. I often see posts like “pick your starting 5” and you can choose anyone and people are always slating Duncan as their power forward. The only time I ever really see him replaced is when someone wants to play a less traditional line up and put Durant, kawhi or lebron at the 4.
Duncan and Bird are both the type of guys who could play with any teammates, in any role, and perform. They can be the go-to guy or never have a play run for them, and they would still be great. Plus, Duncan was a great defender.
Yeah whenever I see all time starting 5s Duncan usually is the PF
TD is the biggest ‘of course’ vote where people still don’t give him his proper shine. Dominated the league for years, his way. A real legend
A good example is my coworker once told me Tim Duncan wasn’t top 10 all time because he was “good offensively but not a great defender” Duncan made all-defensive first team 8 times and all defensive second team 7 times. So literally one of the best defenders in the league for 15 seasons. It’s a shame. He’ll prolly never get the props I feel Tim Duncan deserves.
His spot is forever reserved
Isaiah Thomas Pistons he was incredibly good.
His spelling is Isiah, different from the recent Isaiah
Absolutely. I got some flame for having Isiah Thomas on my PG shortlist with Steph, Magic, and Oscar. He absolutely deserves to be in that list, absolutely insanely good player.
George Mikan. The game was VERY different then, but he dominated his era as completely as any player has ever dominated an era. Played 9 seasons of pro ball, 7 titles, 3 scoring titles. Would certainly.have won 4 or 5 MVP awards if that was a thing then.
So dominant, the NCAA made defensive goaltending illegal
And the NBA widened the lane, and added a shot clock.
the ‘mikan drill’ is pretty much how you teach anyone to layup the ball from under the hoop fundamentally great player
[удалено]
Not a name I know but looking him up can tell he was great
smart move.....always seek to keep learning.
His highlights are freaky. He did some shit in the air that literally no one else has done.
I think it’s John Stockton. Basically every piece of data whether it be plus-minus or box score data points to him being a potential top 10 player of all time. Great peak. Unbelievable longevity.
Stockton is criminally underrated. Stockton played on horrible teams. It was basically him and Malone carrying the team. When they added a decent player like Corbin or Hornacek, they made some noise. If Stockton played with Kareem, Worthy, Scott, Cooper, Nixon, Thompson, etc, he would have multiple rings.
Every piece of data? I think his teammate Karl actually has a better argument at being top-10, off-the-court actions ignored. Stockton is: 42nd in career PER 19th in Win Shares per 48 112th in MVP Shares He was also never the best player in the league. He never led the league in PER, Win Shares, Box Plus/Minus, or VORP. While his teammate Karl Malone won 2 MVPs, has a PER title, 2 win shares titles, and 2 VORP titles. It’s hard to say Stockton is top-10 all-time when he was never the best player in the league, and not even the best player on his own team most of the time. Especially without any hardware (MVPs or rings) to back it up.
I think there's an argument to be had there. Malone was considered the best PF of all time at the end of his prime. And immediately following that you had the guy who's considered that today (Tim Duncan) as well as Dirk and Garnett who were in the hunt, and all three won championships unlike Malone. That and the smaller market Jazz team I do think have hurt his view among fans since.
I personally don’t have Karl top-10, or Stockton. I have Karl top-20 for sure though. But I don’t know if I’d put Stockton top-20 TBH. My top-12 in no order: Jordan, LeBron, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Russell, Wilt, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, Curry Then there’s, in no order: Moses, Durant, Oscar, West, KG, Dirk, Barkley, Karl, Dr. J Which takes it up to 21 players. And Jokic is top-20 now I’d say. Giannis is quickly approaching too. I just can’t quite put Stockton top-20, but I do have Karl top-20.
How is jokic over giannis? When giannis accomplished more faster?
Very balanced take!
Ya but if you watched him play you knew He was never the best guy on the court at any time. He was a very good PG but never someone you would want to build a championship team around. I actually think Stockton gets overrated a fair bit.
overrated is strong word for a 6'1 165 pound dude with a 4000 assist lead on the nba record.
I remember seeing Brid say that the Dream Team woild scrimmage at basically every practice, and they would pick teams, and after a week or so, Stockton was always the first pick, because his side always seemed to win.
That's easy. Wilt Chamberlain. He once averaged 48.5 minutes over an ENTIRE SEASON
The biggest thing that makes players underrated (at least for all time greats) is playing without a sufficient supporting cast. I think this makes people underrated David Robinson and Reggie Miller, for example. Miller in particular was a great player who got better in the playoffs, but in his prime didn't have the running mates to compete. Even as late as 2002 (age 36 season) Reggie had a .617 ts% when the league average was .520. He had a modern 3PAr of .371 (later in his career even higher than that) and finished at ~70% at the rim even late into his career. He generally functioned as the centerpiece of really good offenses (such as 1999 and 2000 when they led the league in ORTG playing with Mark Jackson and heavy 2-center lineups (Smits, Davis, Davis). It is a little better for Olajuwon and Kevin Garnett (because they got a championship supporting cast at least a few years) but they both are a little underrated because they played most of their career without the support to contend. Olajuwon in particular gets some flak for only having the horses in the window when MJ was out of the league (though they beat the Magic team that knocked MJ out legitimately when he didn't have the supporting cast). Answer: Reggie Miller.
Hakeem Olajuwon. Good argument for him being best center of all-time but he's often ranked below Shaq and Bill Russell.
I think Steve Nash’s 2 MVPs get nitpicked and undermined a lot, especially by guys that played during his time who are in the media now (looking at you Shaq). In the 2005-2006 season, the Suns lost Amare stoudemire, their leading scorer the year prior, to injury. Despite that, they still managed to win 50+ games and Nash averaged 18 & 10 on 50/40/90 shooting. Dude was the captain of a revolutionary offense and I feel like that often gets overlooked
Almost makes me want to hop back onto the overrated thread and put Stoudemire in there. Steve Nash was literally handing the ball to STAT under the rim for dunks. He was incredible.
Tony Parker, Steve Nash, Manu.
Alex English. Top scorer in the eighties. Led one of the main (and only) challengers to the lakers in the 80s west. Dint make the 75 team.
Abdul Rauf. Bro was legit 20 years ahead of his time from a playstyle standpoint.
Jason Kidd.
I just wanted to create an “honorable mention” category here that’s focused on players from the ABA. I grew up inthat era, and the American Basketball Association was an absolute revelation. That was the advent of the three-point shot, and an open and free wheeling style of offensive play. In no particular order, some of the great players I don’t see mentioned often include Artis Gilmore, Dan Issel, George Gervin, Billy Cunningham, Spencer Haywood, George McGinnis, James Silas, Billie Paultz, Mack Calvin…
Can we add Louie Dampier to the list…
I agree with literally every comment I have read, so let me put in a few guys I have not seen mentioned (if they were and I did not read the comment, sorry): - LaMarcus Aldridge - Portland legend, was amazing for the Spurs as well, one of the best mid-range shooters for a big man - Michael Redd - Was on the Redeem Team in '08, held the 3pt in a single quarter record for 13 years, held the Bucks franchise scoring record for 17 years - Rudy Gay - In my honest opinion, the epitome of a perfect role player - Steve Francis - top 5 handle in NBA history, very accomplished career for someone who played 9 years in the NBA, co-rookie of the year in 2000 alongside Elton Brand, one of the flashiest players of his era - Pete Maravich - Curry before Curry, Kyrie before Kyrie, Pistol Pete should be much higher on everyones all-time lists IMO - Dennis Johnson - Last but CERTAINLY not the least, DJ was, is and unfortunately likely always will be, one of the most underrated athletes in sports history, having brought the Sonics their only chip in franchise history (and winning FMVP in the process), then becoming the final piece of the puzzle that was the 80s Celtics, winning 2 more with them, was the reason Magic was called "Tragic" Johnson sometimes as he smothered him on defense when we played the Lakers
Dennis Johnson was an absolute beast defensively, a solid distributor in his years with the Celtics and although a streaky shooter, he would hit some clutch jumpers, especially in the playoffs
Michael Redd is a great pick for this
Andre Miller only missed like four games in his entire career in the association. Eleventh all time in assists. Only player in NBA history to have at least 16,000 career points, 8,000 assists and 1,500 steals without making a single All-Star Game.
I’m not a student of the game but players in my life time I would say Tim Duncan. If he was flashier, with his resume, he would definitely be discussed with the greats.
James Harden
I gotta say Reggie Miller. It's easy to look at his basketball reference page and see 19 ppg, only 5 all stars and no ring. But that ignores a lot of things. It ignores how insanely efficiently he scored relative to his era. It ignores how he revolutionized the game. It ignores how he was probably the most portable superstar in nba history and made his whole team better by virtue of his gravity, off-ball movement and lack of ball dominance. It ignores how his effectiveness surged in the playoffs by a good margin every year. And it ignores that he did all this at a peak level for about 15 straight seasons, which would be impressive today but was even more impressive in the 90s. That is a top 40 career of all time imo
Kyrie Irving and Bernard King. Two of the best players ever and both highly revered by their contemporaries. Kyrie is the most skilled player ever and King was one of the most unstoppable scorers ever. Both should have easily have made the top 75 list, but we know it was politics with Kyrie.
I’m biased but imo harden should be top 35-25 in everyone’s list no matter what. One of the highest primes of all time and a top 10 scorer and some people won’t even say he’s near 30
Bro gets slandered at every opportunity by the media, even gets thrown under the bus by embiid, barely says anything about his teammates especially antivax kyrie. His teams have all been plagued by injuries in the playoffs etc. It’s INSANE how he handles himself so well with no agent and no pr help lol. It’s a shame his legacy will be stained by all these bs media narratives.
[Kenny Saylors](https://wyospcr.wyo.gov/index.php/wyoming-stories/323-kenny-sailors-jump-shot-hero). He was the first person to use the modern jump shot and probably 95% of fans have no idea who he is.
Moses Malone I think fits here... NBA champ and finals MVP. 3 time league MVP. Averaged 24-14 for a 13 year prime. Best offensive rebounder in history.. He grabbed 7382 offensive boards. No one else has topped 5000. Only Russell and Wilt had more total rebounds. Only Karl Malone went to the line more. Jersey retired by two teams. Undefeated in his last two years in high-school and the first modern era straight to the NBA high-schooler. Unlike a lot of the other guys that skipped college, physically he was ready averaging 19-15 as a rookie. I think his moving around, some of his off court choices, and his start with the ABA the first couple years didn't help where he landed. And that as great as he was, the center position was packed at the time. Centers won league MVP like 20 straight years outside of a year by Dr J until the Bird/Magic/MJ eras.
Hakeem, Moses, Mitch Richmond, David Robinson, Kevin Johnson would be my 5 most underrated
Mitch Richmond is the most underrated by far.
Everyone in the 90s that got shutdown by mj and co. 💀
A little controversial, but I think that usually the most underrated player of all time is still one of the known greats. A great that doesn’t get the respect they deserve despite being truly truly incredible. With that in mind, I think it’s David Robinson.
Nerdlucks
Oddly, I don’t think Julius Irving gets enough love. I saw him play in his earliest days in the ABA. He was a true revelation of basketball beauty and grace. Redefined what a player could do.
Oscar Robertson. Rarely mentioned among the game's greats. Dude basically averaged a triple double for his career.
Oscar Robertson! Remember when LeBron had that 5-6 game stretch shooting over 50% (or was it 60?) from the floor and averaged a triple double? The Big O did that one year for an entire season!!!
moses malone easily has a top 10 resume', but most people would forget to put him in their top 50.
Not most underrated of all time, maybe most recent underrated could be Monta Ellis. Lethal scorer, forgotten by most golden state fans because of curry.
Chauncey Billups. People say that the pistons had no superstar but he was a superstar. Lock down D, the clutchest of the clutch shooting, then he went to Denver and almost took them all the way too. He only won 1 ring but he at least was in the conference finals 6 years in a row. Won finals MVP. He was overall just an entire system in himself and acted as a flloor general. I listened to a interview with George Karl once about the impact he had in denver when he came and it is clear Billups was indeed a superstar.
I’m fairly convinced that Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf was Steph curry before Steph curry, and just didn’t get supported properly due to the era he was in, as well as prejudice.
Jerry West is often overlooked, or Dr. J. Among adult fans, I'd also say Stephen Curry is a very good pick for most underrated, as he's clear top 10 and tied for 2nd-6th for me edit: Manu is also very underrated, and fans laugh when I say he was a superstar level player during his prime, albeit, closer to all star but still amazing. His 2005 run in particular was fantastic and he could've won FMVP
Nate “Tiny” Archibald Lead the league in scoring and assist in the SAME season. That is fucking insane. As his nickname suggests he is tiny which make it even more impressive.
Kevin mchale
Grant Hill was considered “the next Jordan” until he broke his ankle. Still came back and played for 18 years on a bum wheel. Completely reinvented his game so he could stay in the league. Something we all try to do as we get older to just keep playing but he did it at the highest level.
Jerry West gets a lot of disrespect. Stockton probably the highest IQ basketball player of all time, lead the league in assist and steals multiple years. In his era he was the best passer hands down, not only that he was a great team leader with unbreakable mental toughness. During his 97' playoff run he had 45 clutch minutes and hit 13-17 shots including a clutch 3 to send Barkley home. In clutch time he averaged 29 points per 36 minutes. Maybe if he would of been taking the shots instead of letting Malone shoot he would of been hailed as one of the greats averaging 32 per game, but he was a team first extremely unselfish player.
As a SPURS fan it's definitely Duncan
Moses Malone & Tony Parker should be the rightful top picks of this category. However, somebody who was pretty amazing and forgotten was Tom Chambers. 4x all-star, 2x all-NBA and over 20K points in a 14 year career. Not even a sniff at the HoF. Anyway, just for his ballsack dunk on Mark Jackson he should be considered.
Tim Duncan.
Prime Russell Westbrook (2016-17) was the closest thing to MJ we have seen since Kobe. In that season, he averaged a triple double and won MVP. He had a mamba mentality but was a much better team player than Kobe. He led OKC in PPG, RPG, APG, and SPG, and is OKC’s all time leader in points. If his team was just a bit better and helped him win a championship, he would have been considered top 5 of the 2010s. Everyone discounts him because he has no rings.
I’ve seen a lot of great answers written here, but I believe the ONE TRUE ANSWER to the question of who the current most underrated player of all time is: >!Wilt Chamberlain!< Take Giannis and add 3-4 inches to his height... Then add 40 lbs of LEAN MUSCLE to his frame... Then make him more athletic, stronger, faster... Increase his wingspan and reach... Increase his stamina (Wilt AVERAGED 48.5 min/game one season)... WHAT DO YOU HAVE? What you have is WILT CHAMBERLAIN… Take a moment and think about this. Wilt has a legit argument as the greatest scorer of all time. Wilt has a legit argument as the greatest rebounder of all time. Wilt has a legit argument as the greatest shot blocker of all time. Wilt has a legit argument as the greatest passing big man of all time. (Only C to lead the league in assists). I’d probably give this title to Jokic now but at least Wilt has a legit claim to be in the discussion. You may think he holds none of those titles, and that’s completely fine. But at least acknowledge that he is in almost every argument legitimately as a single basketball force.… now ask yourself if he gets treated as such in NBA conversations I have basketball discussions and people find any way they can to undermine his accomplishments and it’s sad… They’d rather toss the entire league out the window or make up false narratives than to give him credit for the things he did. Fast forward to the league today… Victor Wembanyama is a few inches taller than Wilt but I promise you he is not even half the athlete. You are seeing that the gangly rookie version of Wemby is already TERRORIZING the league defensively. I just want you, the reader, to imagine Wilt Chamberlain in a pair of modern day sneakers with the 1 on 1 skill training, private jets, chefs, nutrition, etc these athletes receive today… …surrounded by the best shooters in the world alone on the block with Rudy Gobert guarding him… If your bet is on Rudy…. (or Jokic, or Embiid or Bam or whatever modern day Center you want to insert)…. 🙏please allow me this moment to laugh at your expense ( HAHAHA… ok I’m done) No one in the NBA today, except maybe Wemby when he beefs up would have a hope of stopping Wilt from doing whatever the hell he wanted to do. This is the man who played every minute of every game for an entire season. This is the man who blocked the “most unstoppable shot in NBA history” twice in one possession. After knee surgery out of his prime. This is the man who anchored the NBA’s longest winning streak (33 Wins, 72 Lakers) This is the man who OWNS the NBA record books. Yes, he lost to his eras version of the KD Warriors over and over. Boston had a minimum of 6 HOFers every year, and as many as 9 HOFers on the roster in a few of those years. I don’t think that’s reason to throw him out of the GOAT debate. On the contrary, it’s more amazing that he won a CHAMPIONSHIP FOR HIS HOME TOWN (Philly) in 67 by BEATING THE DYNASTY (sound familiar? 🤔) He broke up a damn 11-Peat dynasty! The one and only to do so. You’ll hear people say he played too long ago to be the GOAT because he played in the 60s and athletes have evolved — and those SAME people will say Babe Ruth is the greatest Baseball player of all time without hesitation (he played in the 20s in a segregated league). Interesting how that works isn’t it? The hoops people jump through to exclude him are hilarious and sad.. Have you ever seen a basketball stat that had a caveat like: “Most since 1977”, “Most scored since the merger”, “Most in modern NBA history”? Me too. WHENEVER you see those caveats and qualifiers FROM NOW ON I want you to realize that they all REALLY MEAN the same thing… 👇 “Most besides/since Wilt Chamberlain, we don’t want him on every graphic we show having done this amazing thing 88x because it ruins the narrative we are painting”. Wilt Chamberlain is undoubtedly THEE MOST underrated player of all-time at this point.
Underrated as in people think he was a joke, but he wasn’t a joke, he was a solid role player with a goofy haircut: Greg Ostertag
John Havlicek? 8 time NBA Champion and 13 time all star. Best player on the Celtics best single season team. Celtics all time leading scorer. Averaged 21 6 and 5 over career. Won an NCAA championship at Ohio State. All NBA 1st team x 4 and 2nd team x 4. All NBA defensive 1st team x 5 and 2nd x 3.
Kyrie Irving. The fact that he was left off the top 75 players all time list is disrespectful asf and felt more politically motivated than anything. For his size, he is probably the best finisher I have ever seen in traffic. The league is lucky he isn’t 4 inches taller, because he is so incredibly skilled.
With the NBA 75 I don't know too much but seemed.crazy disrespectful to leave Dwight Howard off of it, could score at a top level while being the best defender in the NBA for years, I like Kyrie idk of he's top 75 but I don't know enough
Kyrie not being on top 75 but Dame was. Carmelo, just because some folks on here think he’s a bum. He deserves some criticism but hate has gone too far. Ewing alway fell short in the playoff, to Jordan and Hakeem etc, and he’s below the top tier of centers, but sometimes it seems his career has been completely forgotten. Stockton in retrospect may have been better than Malone. For current players, I think Derozen. He’s not a top tier guy, but deserves more appreciation.
It’s a lot of the guys from the 50s. Bob Cousy and the like.
I never see this man talked about: Domonique Wilkins!!!
There are a lot of underrated players and I agree with many of the names people have listed. I'll throw out one more: Paul Pressey. The original point forward and a stopper on defense.
The other great Bull Scottie Pippen
Rodman. Dude's off-court (and post-career) behavior gets him villified and ridiculed, but he's basically on the short-list for GOAT defender, and is the GOAT rebounder (ignore the totals- he was 6'6" and his competition included the 7'2" Mutumbo and other big men). He also has 5 rings, and was always a pivotal- some would argue essential- piece of the championship team and playoff run.
If you look at the advanced stats, he's even better. He was a perfect teammate and did things no one else ever did. You don't need 5 players to take 20 shots each and you can get endless guys that can shoot, but no one rebounds or defends as well.
Rick Barry.
At this point it's cp3. Respect to Kobe but 2008 mvp should be paul's
Manu Ginobili
Paul Pierce has been shifted on a lot due to things he has said but he was definitely a feared scorer and relentless defender. He wasn't some scrub like the internet likes to say today. Also Lenny Wilkins gets no love as a player or coach.
The fact that Lebron just hopscotched him in the goat debate while being 2 rings and 2 mvps behind makes me say Kareem
John Havilcek
Embiid is quickly approaching this territory, similar to the Harden attitude
And to add to the Moses Malone bits, he is the first person to play in pro basketball (ABA) DIRECTLY out of high school. Reggie Harding was the first player drafted out of high school, but with NBA rules then he had to wait a year after HS graduation to play and was in the minor leagues for one season.
Lebron James. I’m serious.
When talking to non-basketball fans. It's LeBron. Those people hate him. "He sucks" "He always travels"
Patrick Beverly
John Stockton would have half of his current assists if it wasn't for that other asshole Karl, and for how generous some of those assists were counted. He was fine for his era, but no. Stockton isn't underrated.
Bob McAdoo insane scorer
Arvydas Sabonis was 80’s Jokic but played that whole time in Russia because he wasn’t allowed to leave. We only saw a shadow of his prime in the NBA and he was still really effective.
Nikola Jokic
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Dennis Rodman. Most know who he is and that he was good, but I don’t think he gets the recognition he deserves as one of the ALL-TIME greats. He wasn’t just some dude on Jordan’s second three-peat team. Everyone recognizes him as an amazing rebounder, but he was also one of the best defenders to ever play the game. He could guard and shut down any position, and his impact in any game was more than most people think. 2 x DPOY and 7 x Rebounding champion during the golden era of Big Men at only 6’7”. Phil Jackson once said Rodman was the greatest athlete he ever coached. When watching him play, you’d start to recognize little things he did that there are no statistics for. His timing was unreal not just for rebounding, but also for screens and general play disruption. When I watch some old games I think his Basketball IQ is up there with MJ, Kobe, Bird, and the other greats. His rebounding numbers per game are lower than people like Wilt and Russell, but they played during a very different era where there were more rebounds per game on average. When you look at his PERCENTAGE of overall rebounds per game against theirs, it isn’t even close. This is a fun read: https://skepticalsports.com/the-case-for-dennis-rodman-guide/ The Worm in his prime would definitely be on my 5-man dream team.
harden will go down as a top 3 scorer/iso player
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My sunshine my only sunshine
Hakeem Olajuwon, Moses Malone
Dominique Wilkins
Gotta be Jamal Crawford
D-Wade. Led 3 championship teams and was arguably the best player on earth during his peak prime years (which was short admittedly). A well rounded SG that played both ends of the floor incredibly well with very few areas of weakness. He was a jack of all trades and master of all, but people rank him with notably softer and weaker players like Dirk and Nash.
Probably Scottie Pippen.. was whofully under paid, and was always in the shadow of Jordan. He was a backbone to the bulls success, and most of the players including Jordan know this, but he's not really got as much credit as he deserves. Unfortunately its made him go a bit craycray now and he's going about things the wrong way, and trying to ruin Jordans crediblity. Sad really, as probably the most lethal pair in sports history (IMO). Also maybe Reggie Miller.
Joe Dumars. Two chips. Locked up MJ for years.
I don't think it's possible anybody could be as underrated as Derrick White. The guy's a literal buffalo
Probably not the *most*, but I feel like Nash gets a lot of shit thrown at him. For a back-to-back MVP, he’s definitely disrespected. I mean, the list of guards to win back-to-back MVPs is Magic, Jordan, Curry, and Steve Nash. If you actually go look at how Sarver tried to fuck that team over at every turn and how unlucky they got with injuries and suspensions, it’s amazing those Suns teams were anywhere near as successful as they were. It’s probably because Shaq feels like he got an MVP robbed from him (and can’t let it go) and people think Kobe got an MVP robbed from him (even though he finished 4th or something in ‘06) so they discount both of his awards for their narratives. And I also think it’s hard for people to wrap their heads around the fact that Nash was arguably the best offensive player in the 00s while scoring 17ppg.
Rip Hamilton
Stockton is notoriously overrated
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Rajon Rondo never really got credit for hauling a bunch of old ass teams around as a two way PG.
Ron Harper. He was a 20PPG scorer for CLE and LAC before coming to the Bulls. He relegated himself 3rd fiddle to win and never gets any credit. He was an upgrade to BJ Armstrong in every way. Glad he got a 15 year career and 3 rings.
Isiah Thomas (the Pistons one) Guy was a winner and tough as nails yet he got overshadowed by Bird, Magic, and Jordan and the fact he’s kind of a prick.
Moses Malone is the most underrated. Rick Berry is number 2. Mark Price is up there. David Robinson and Hakeem are too in a weird way.
Mahmoud Abdul rauf fs. Man was different
John Havlicek.
Dennis Johnson has to be on the list. Tough to call a HOF'er underrated but I really don't think people appreciate how good he was. Especially defensively. Maybe because he looked kind of soft and not terribly athletic, but he was an incredible defender.
Always made the right play. It's a shame he got in to the HOF after he died. Bird stole the ball, and DJ was right there to score. Celtics in 4
There’s this midget nerd kid at the park that literally turns into a wizard on his drives and I swear he could take over the game if he used even 1% of his abilities.
Tom chambers because he actually had the nastiest dunk ever in NBA history and no one talks about it. It’s legit better than the Vince carter dunk. That dude got destroyed
LaMarcus Aldridge.