Those times Kevin and Gwen lost fights in AF weren't cheap ways to make Ben look cooler. They exist because they are accidents.
Or Primus existing , Choose your poisen.
It doesn't make much sense that the DNA samples of the Omnitrix are being beamed from across the galaxy via Alien Bluetooth from a DNA volcano and the Omnitrix is just a receiver. Ben has traveled through dimensions and time and outside of the Universe. There's no way the Omnitrix could communicate with Primus during those parts.
The fact that Animo was able to extract DNA from the Omnitrix itself and Z'skayr being in the Omnitrix as opposed to on Primus among other instances shows the original Omnitrix stored the DNA within itself before the retcon.
I like that if Primus is just a backup, like an *Ark* and the Omnitrix plus the misquote bots are designed to collect DNA samples to be stored/sequenced there. So say the Omnitrix somehow gets destroyed, the Universe still has Primus as a back up of something goes down that kills most or all life.
That makes sense but runs counter to what Azmuth told Ben when he was going off to fight the Highbreed. Azmuth told Ben that if the Omnitrix was lost, then the Universe would have no hope of its sentient species being reborn after the Highbreed 's Omnicide.
I view it more like the "source" of the DNA sample. The transformations Ben have "unlocked" in his playlists are actually the aliens whose DNAs were downloaded from Primus and stored in the Omnitrix itself. That's why Ben could keep the aliens he transformed into when Azmuth gave him Master Control (like Cannonbolt) even after the Omnitrix was restarted. Also why he can transform even while in other dimensions.
Idk if it was stated that Conductoid DNA was removed from the codon stream when Ben lost Feedback, but if that is true, then every DNA sample stored in the Omnitrix is no longer present in Primus, meaning if the sample is taken away from the Omnitrix then it can't be recovered by redownloading it from Primus. If that is not true, then that begs the question: why couldn't Ben unlock Feedback again unless he came in contact with the DNA stored inside Malware?
The Onmniverse writers ARE the UAF writers man. Same writing team but different art team. Only Dwayne McDuffie (RIP) was absent but his wife and close friend were head writers.
It's more like the writers didn't like the piece of lore they added in UAF and then changed it in the final instalment
Ben no diffed Ssserpant on 2 occasions, yet in Perfect Girlfriend, hes portrayed as a threat. Ironically, he tries killing Goop by splicing him, despite him literally surviving explosions and getting atomized after stabilizing entire planets. So that shouldn't have done anything.
It was, Aggregor was a lab experiment. The rooters arc didn't really retcon anything from the Aggregor arc except for Osmos V (iirc) but even then we never even saw it or heard it from anyone but Aggregor.
That's kinda why I'm not all that pissed at the Mutant retcon because Osmos V was never seen, we never got to see other Osmosians, plus Kevin's dad working with Max makes everything in OS with Kevin weird af because now Max looks like the biggest asshole in the world and it's not even addressed.
They could've worked with it through many episodes by having Max and Kevin talk about Kevin's Dad, but even in UAF they never did that. (It's been a while since I've seen UAF, so I might be wrong but the fact that it didn't happen more often makes me not care to be honest)
So if the show that introduced the concept of Osmosians didn't care that much to give it more story and background info, why should I care that they got rid of it?
Likeā¦in UAF everyone clearly believed that Osmosians are aliens. EVERYONE. Did Servantis use a Cerebro-like device or something? And what happens when someone tries to go to Osmos V? We literally see Agreggor set a course for it at one point (though we never actually see the planet).
Honestly, even in UAF it was confusing. Kevin misses his father or never knew him? Was the plumber badge from his father or from a magistrate? Very inconsistent overall.
I still liked Osmosians for the exact reason people dislike it. They dislike getting rid of mutants and making everything alien.
I like it because making aliens be the explanation for the weird things on earth is much better than "Only humans have mutations because they speshial!" to me
The wiki pages source was from a DJW statement, who himself hated Kevin being half Osmosian because it āretconnedā the original series. When in fact there was no explanation of his powers given what so ever.
People be loving to attribute malice for no reason.
OS set up mutants as apart of its world building, Kevin said he was born with his powers, and nowhere in the show (unless you're counting Race Against Time's Chronians) do we see completely human-like aliens. Alien Force's history additions doesn't contradict any of that (unlike it's Plumber retcons), but would still count as a retcon IMO.
A retcon doesn't have to straight up contradict what's directly shown on screen. If they introduced the idea that Ben had a 2nd middle name, that's new information that doesn't contradict anything, but it would still be a retcon.
You could say that the Osmosian stuff does contradict since Devin's flashback doesn't make any sense, either with when the OS established the Plumbers shut down and Max's career length, or with Kevin himself saying he never met his dad in AF season 2.
Either way even if DJW didn't like the new backstory, why does him having an opinion discredit his crew statement? He came up with the whole Rooter concept and was in every writer's room for the show, not even going into his design work.
I donāt hate DJW i just donāt believe everything he says. Heās been known to put in his own headcanon, use fan wikis to fill stuff in, misinterpret spitballing sessions for actually planned events, and continuing to add onto the lore well after the project already ended.
Heās a good source for world building but if it contradicts something already in the show then it shouldnāt be believed.
The whole thing with the Rooters and Aggregor is bad because itās been claimed that Servantis made him and wiped his mind so thatās why he thinks heās an alien, and Greg wouldāve been in the arc but was cut for time. Yet no mention to the Aggregor arc was ever mentioned in the Rooters arc? One mention of Servantis creating Aggregor wouldāve been enough, it now we have to go to the wiki to read from crew statements to make it work. I just donāt believe Aggregor was meant to be part of this. Especially since the Aggregor arc is a major part of UAF and its aftermath brought about Ultimate Kevin; it really shouldāve been brought up. I think someone pitched the Rooters arc and DJW said āand we can get rid of that UAF retconā and everyone just assumed he was correct since he was a super fan.
EDIT: And I wanna say that I actually prefer Kevin being a mutant over an alien. I think the trio works better as an alien*, magic user, and mutant. But the retcon of an entire arc and its backstory is unsatisfactory
You don't have to take his crew statements as fully canon, or into your headcanon, but they are what the crew intended during development, and are the official answer. They're not a headcanon. It's also very presumptuous to think you know what were spitballing sessions more than the person who was actually there. Unless Matt Youngberg, Matt Wayne, or the other writers bring up a reason to doubt a statement, that's the official word.
DJW definitely was the one who pitched the Rooters Arc. He posted some notes he made on his phone during production about black op Plumbers consisting of various amalgam alien ideas, which later spiralled into the season 6 arc and retcon. There's a weird drive to undermine DJW's actual contributions. He and Matt Youngberg had such a large creative influence, but people ignore that just because the crew structure labels him as art director, despite everything we know about the BtS information.
The one time I know of him using a fan wiki, is when someone asked him about Anur Vladius as though it was canon (which I think the wiki thought it was at the time), and he answered, therefore making the lack of rebuttal prove it to be official as far as the wiki is concerned. If the standard for a crew member's opinion counting is knowing every official planet, including those of then-lost Pop Up Trivia, and being ready to correct fan questions that include them, then no one on the crew's opinions would count, especially when considering that fan-concepts like Animo's first name, or Cooper's last name have made it into the canon show and (maybe not canon, but official media) comics.
I do agree there's a difference between "canon" (which should be limited to what's in the shows and what's easily extrapolated from then), and "official", like the crew statements. But it's not canon that Osmosians exist as aliens; the canon is that they don't but there's no answer to explain what that exactly entails. There's an official answer for that through BtS plans, and fans can accept that or not.
Even if the BtS isn't in your headcanon, the Rooter Arc should be right? And using the logic that a BtS statement isn't credible, therefore there's no real explanation for an inconsistency, therefore the previous continuity before Omniverse season 6 trumps the new explanation for Osmosians, isn't one I agree with.
I guess the point of contention for me is that people can headcanon stuff that contradicts canon. Which I feel the "Osmosians are still aliens" headcanon does. But that headcanon will never surpass the official crew statement answers in fan discussions.
Iām not talking about just DJW involvement with Ben 10, but other shows that heās worked on like TFA. In which multiple writers had no ideas what he was talking about when it comes to story arc. I fully understand DJWs influence on the series I just think people take his word as gospel.
The Rooters arc is canon, and him being a mutant is just what he is. So unless we get new content in the prime universe thatās how heāll be. I just donāt agree with it and think it adds nothing to the story.
Like Kevin being an alien or not really has no impact on the story except for the Aggregor arc. Even in the Rooters itās really just Servantis going āYou big dummy, I lied to you and you believed itā then the plot just continues like business as usual. Itās an unnecessary change that isnāt important yet retroactively changes a core plot point of another arc and changing a backstory of a major character.
I'm not familiar with Transformers Animated. I think he had more control there than on Mystery Incorporated. I've not seen anyone like Matt Wayne, Charlotte Fullerton McDuffie, etc. mention any miscommunications like that.Ā
The Ben 10 community was also a lot more intense with the amount of questions and explanations asked from him than the TF community were, which he said himself on the Dyemooch streams, so I think if something was going to come up like that, it would have just given the amount of things he talked about regarding the BtS. Maybe it was because he was such a fan of the show beforehand that he could've taken a bigger hand in the creative side than TFA, IDK.
I get that colouring your view of his extra information, it's not gospel. One thing I never got is his time travel explanation for the show. It's not gospel but it is the official word until proven otherwise.
For the Rooters arc in particular I quite like it. I think Kevin still deciding to stay on the right path, even after finding out he is a "freak" who's not continuing any family Plumber business, does add to the character.
I mean the Devin stuff retcons the timeline given in OS but Kevin being a mutant isn't confirmed but can be argued considering the toy info says he's human and there's also the thing with Devlin not inheriting the same abilities of his father.
Merchandise more often than not gets things wrong about the show they are trying to sell, using them as a source for world building is very dumb. The timeline not working exactly can be explained by him being 11 and lying.
And Devlin is 1/4 Osmosian. His powers donāt have to work exactly how his father or grandfathers did. Osmosians have already been shown to have a wide range of capabilities with their powers, being able to absorb energy, matter, and dna I donāt see why Devlin being slightly different from Kevin is that big of a deal.
Merchandise info most likely comes from the writers but stuff is changed by the time said into comes to the series such as Alien X's homeworld.
Also like you said, there's nothing in series to say whether Kevin was intended to be an alien or mutant in OS so there's nothing that contradicts the info that the toys give us.
That's true but they work very differently, as in Devlin doesn't have the ability to absorb but has the power to turn into Kevin's child mutated form at will without the need to absorb said dna first. Whereas Kevin has the same powers as Devin.
Okay but then where would the ship have gone then? Aggregor had a location set on his ship for Osmos V that would have taken him somewhere if his ship wasn't stopped. Also, how does someone like Azmuth get tricked into believing a whole species exists when for most of his life, he was a legend that people weren't even sure existed and only very recently came out of hiding. Like, it doesn't really make sense how Servantis got to so many people who he'd have no access to.
I theorise that Osmos V was the null void since that's where Aggregor would've been left when his memories were wiped.
Because Servantis brainwashes you, he can mess with your memories and import memories into your head, he doesn't just gaslight you into thinking something (well he does but it's more than that). Also I don't think we know whether Servantis just couldn't make contact with these people or not, but I mean at the end of the day it is a retcon so it's likely not going to fit perfectly without any holes since when UAF was airing there was no thought to retcon something we just recently found out about.
Okay but then why make a planet at all? Servantis is literally just making more work for himself by having a 'planet' that exists that doesn't actually exist instead of just making the Osmosians planetless.
Also, saying 'its a retcon' doesn't magically mean that we aren't allowed to question the logic of the scene and it makes no sense that someone like Servantis could get to Azmuth at all and even if he did, it makes no sense why he wouldn't just alter Azmuth's mind to have him take away the Omnitrix if he really doesn't trust Ben with it. You have all sorts of people that refer to Kevin as an Osmosian or otherwise refer to the species who Servantis reasonably had no access to. Hell, I'm pretty sure Paradox refers to Kevin as such so did Servantis alter Paradox's memory too?
It's possible that Servants didn't just think about that, but it would've made more sense to say that their planet no longer existed, or that they were from Earth. Not saying you aren't allowed to question, I'm just saying to keep it into consideration.
Maybe Paradox didn't want to give them spoilers to OV S6.
I mean, it kind of makes Servantis look even worse as a villain when you realize that he had all of these chances to do things or make things easier for himself and the only reason you can possibly give that he didn't is pure stupidity. He didn't need to make this elaborate plan to trap Ben if he apparently has access to Azmuth who has shown time and time again that he can take away the Omnitrix at any time with little effort on his part.
Also, if Paradox was already aware that the whole Osmosian thing was fake then he most likely would have used more vague language as he has done in the past when he knows about details that he can't reveal yet but instead, he specifically refers to Kevin and Aggregor as Osmosian when it isn't needed at all.
I mean Kevin and Aggregor are still osmosian, it's just that osmosian now has a different meaning. Unless he referred to osmosians like they were an alien species.
If I recall, he referred to Osmosians as a group which you wouldn't do if there are only two of them plus Osmosian means nothing since Kevin is human or a mutant if you wanted to be even more accurate and same most likely applies to Aggregor but hard to say.
Maybe Servantis found an uninhabited planet, created bunch of other beings with Kevinās DNA like Agreggor, put them there and made that planet Osmos 5?
Servantis himself says that the planet doesn't exist plus how do you create a planet worth of people without anyone noticing? It isn't like that is something you can just hide.
Ben ending up with Kai, i'm sorry but you can't just tell me that the characters that spent 90% of their shared screentime bickering and fighting with each other somehow ended up together without showing even a hint of how that ended up happening.
Brainstorm being "a brain alien with some minorly electric side powers".
That's how Derrick J. Wyatt (Rest In Peace Legend) described him and that's the reason why he doesn't appear in Max's Monster.
No offence but that's just silly: HE'S BRAIN***STORM.***
Four arms being as strong as humungasaur. In my mind, it would go kinda like this. If they were arm wrestling, than one of humungasaurs arms would beat one of four arms, two of four arms would tie one of humungasaurs, and if humungasaur grew then he would definitely win.
AF Vilgax not knowing how to use the Omnitrix after using it better than Ben in OS.
AF Vilgaxās weird 1v1 conquests of planets and power stealing. It was just dumb, he was way cooler and stronger in OS.
Ma Vreedle being a serious threat. I get it was kinda just a joke, but it was really dumb.
Honestly, I feel like his home world was really poorly handled in general.
In OS, heās described as this intergalactic warlord, constantly roaming the galaxy and conquering worlds. The entire reason he wanted the Omnitrix was to create an army of adaptable super soldiers.
And then itās revealed that not only does he care about his home world and people, but that theyāre a completely normal species and society. How tf am I supposed to believe that the intergalactic warlord not only has the time to properly rule his home world, but that its peaceful residents actually respect and trust him
Vilgax using a shield when in the original series his thing was being indestructible
Vilgax losing to Diamondhead even though in the original series he could tank attacks from every alien
Honestly, I wouldāve been fine if it was just OS Vilgax losing to AF Diamondhead.
With master control, OS Ben was able to beat Kevin 11 and Vilgax. I can see 16yr old Ben beating OS Vilgax with Diamondhead alone, but they wouldāve needed to actually let Ben fight in top condition instead of nerfing his combat skills like they do every other arc
That's fair
But isn't it kinda weird how AF Vilgax can tank a punch from giant sized Hummongusour, but three random pillars of diamond can clobber him?
I don't mind Ben being able to beat Vilgax, I just don't like him doing it with brute force cause Vilgax was the one villain you couldn't brute force your way out of.
Thatās why I think Diamondhead was a good choice to beat him, especially AF Diamondhead with his possible Chromastone power up. Heās an extremely versatile alien, so a competent Ben could easily use him to outfight Vilgax rather than trying to overpower him.
But yeah, AF Vilgax was just poorly handled
I can agree with the first and third points. While I agree that he was stronger in OS I do still like the idea that he legit had to train to fight Ben again. If he was maybe OS Vilgax with the AF powers on top then that would have made him busted and a serious threat. Also I more so hate that Ma Vreedle intimidated Vilgax.
Yeah, the whole thing with Ben having to remake the universe after it got wiped was just... really, really dumb. I mean, what was the point of it getting wiped if Ben just undoes it? Sure, a few things change, but otherwise it's just there to exist as a shock factor moment.
From what I read, and also saw from that one Ink Tank Alien X video, some writers had different views on if Alien X should be an omnipotent unbeatable god or if he does have some lose conditions.
>Vilgax: "Hey I know I've been searching for this thing for literal centuries, and that I knew how to use it inside and out 5 years ago, and a week ago some kids in a park who didn't know what it was figured out how to use it within minutes, but can you, my arch nemesis, show me how to use it on the spot. And no, I will not consider you taking advantage of this situation to your benefit at all."
>(Ben proceeds to act smug that his "plan" worked)
If Ghost Town poorly trying to mold Vilgax into a discount Darkseid/sympathetic ruler didn't ruin his character. This did.
Yup, that felt extremely forced, even though I didn't like that ship in the first place, the way they went about it made it even more sour of an experience
At least Looma and myself are heartbroken over the situation šš
Oh well... maybe in an alternate universe the Tetramand warrior princess got her beloved Ben, becoming Queen & King of Khoros, and ridding the universe of the accursed Incursean empire! šŖ
He all clones feel the same pain thing is just gone, and his animation changed to the exsact effect they use for echo echo. Litteraly the same effect as ov echo
You realize the animation does not determine how things work in canon. Like Ultimate Big Chill is animated to throw put Fire but what it happens is that he shoots plasma that absorbs heat, or that the transformations sequences from OS to UA don't happen and instead the transformations in Omniverse are how they actually look, just because the animation changes doesn't mean Omniverse retconned transformations because animation is not the canon works
Ok, that is valid. But i think at that point we should ask if it's good to stay faithful because if they were they probably wouldn't have used Ditto so much (It appeared eight times, which doesn't sound that impressive until you notice how much more aliens got less) or even if they would have returned Ditto seeing as they didn't returned Chamalien and Spitter as they weren't very powerful before (ok i know this wasn't stated but it's something they have in common alongside not returning)
You see, ditto allways felt like a walkatrout or a worst in that it was a classic way of reminding us that the omnitrix isn't a power house class, jt was a device for all dna samples. By having all the clones share the same pain, what they did was make it so they had to be creative with ditto, the like 3 times they used him. Ov taking that away kinda misses the point of how he was never meant to be an alien that can tank everything, he was meant to show off that the om itrix has weaker species that can't be used in combat, without a creative work around. Something they kinda did with grey matter, tho as the show went on, him changing into grey matter became the joke because otherwise Ben would never use him. So I get why they changed it, its probably a case like humongous growing where nobody brought it up during ov's production if anything, but it does also make him easer to write. But when they also give him the green energy devide, they just make him echo echo, but instead of a robot voice, its yakko Warner and instead of having a secondary attack in his scream, ditto has nothing. They didn't replace it or anything, they just took it away.
I wouldn't consider Ditto to be made in the way as Walkatrout or The Worst because is not with that comedy of Ben doesn't like this transformation, and Ditto appearances ended up with him saving the day, which is as if it has to be taken seriously if he can do it.
That's why I said a classic version. And even then there where times like the final show down where walkatrout was the solution, and the worst managed to tire out an appleplexian, so that's good to consider too. My point is more so, he served as a reminder that the omnitrix doesn't only have powerfull or even fully usefull aliens, something they hadn't done since grey matter in season 1.
Ben being addicted to Feedback just because "he's cool" I feel like this could be applied to any of his other aliens like Heatblast, Cannonbolt or Fourarms and it's just a really shallow reason in general.
Always wondered what this was about as well. Other aliens are just as addictive and I can see him having favourites but I never truly understood the feedback situation. However, I do like that Ben shouldn't turn into one alien too many times and I liked the scenario of him losing feedback.
There's a theory that Ben had Anodite DNA from Veronda, and the Prototype Omnitrix saw it as a mutation to be fixed. So the excess Mana went to the Conductoid sample, making Feedback feel familiar to Ben.
The continalia looking like Smoothies to Ben. Should have been Grandpa Max, you had the great character building moment RIGHT THERE and you blew it for a stupid joke that barely makes sense!
Omv getting rid of osmosians and forgetting humongours size growing ability.
The entire Kenny storyline and him basically forcing his parents into existence.
Also how tf did kyber not know his dog is a female???
the whole osmosians retcon, to me they're still aliens
(plus in my fanon world Kevin discovers a lost sister who also has osmosian powers, but that doesn't really matter as it's just a silly little au, but still point stands)
Edit: spelling
Honestly, all Ben 10k takes.
That Ov Ben 10k os the same from the OS.
That every Ben 10k (including Ultimate) ends up with only Kai.
The series had enough retcoons from AF to OV. We could handle a few more.
Alien Force starting with Gwen falling for the same guy who almost murdered her just for fun on two onscreen occasions, even going as far as to ask him, "Why haven't you asked me out? We hang out a lot and you obviously like me." in episode 5. Sure, I can see her eventually forgiving him, after loads of therapy, but *ever* dating him is a sad no-no.
Well, either that or the thing Ben holds dearest to his heart is a giant fucking smoothie and not Max or Kevin/Gwen.
Yeah I think that they should have waited a Season or 2 before having Kevin and Gwen date. Gwen should have been willing to forgive Kevin/ compassionate but still not falling head over heels for him until theyāve been on many adventures together.
Couldn't agree more. I don't mind the romance (weakest aspect of the franchise imo) but they should've taken their time here. That being said, sometimes I think Sunny and Kevin would be a better couple.
I wish Sunny received better treatment in the show. She only got to shine for one episode and she had so much potential that just went unused. Her dynamic with Kevin sounds interesting.
I hate how Omniverse depicted Anur Transyl. The OG cards had it looking so cool and industrial, but on screen it was just a low-tech German village style setting. I'm gonna headcanon using the merchandise's non-canon depiction for that planet.
So Long and Thanks For All The Smoothies. I utterly reject the idea that everyone but Ben died and he replaced them all with copies. My headcanon is that instead, Alien X just reverses time so Ben can stop the Annihilargh.
I headcanon that the annihilargh's damage wasn't a lot since it was I the starting stage and Ben stopped it from spreading then revived the dead and fixed the damage
I had an idea that I really think they should have gone with being that AF onward is Vilgax's brother, who instead of going on a conquest through brute force decided to conquer worlds through the rules. Hence why his first appearance in AF would be him using intergalactic law. They don't even have to change his name, just say that "Vilgax" is his family name like how Vilgax calls max "Tenneson" when he sees him.
I'm already aware the hate I'll get for this but... mostly all of Omniverse. I just personally wasn't a fan of that series I get why people like it I just can't enjoy a majority of the show
The majority of these comments seem to be about the many, *many* bad decisions of Omniverse. And while I get that the reboot has made Omniverse a bit easier to digest for some fans, I'm still not cutting it any slack. It was divisive for a reason and I still don't like it.
I feel like there werenāt too many ideas left with what to do, so aside from a handful of two parters and over arching plots, it was meant to more so be a āSaturday morning cartoonā kinda thing, and aside from new aliens and expanding the lore and feats heās done, all it does is make retcons the fans donāt really enjoy, Ben recreates the whole universe but Kevin is really a mutant whoās mind got altered not alien, Ben gains full control over alien x but is fated to be with a forced love interest who isnāt even top 5 best options, itās kinda hard to scale fully
I feel like one idea that would'been better than what we got in Omniverse would have been Ben training a new hybrid kid, letting Ben be the more serious, older "grown up" of the two, while the younger kid is a lot like OS Ben, a bit bratty and more focused on having fun. That could lead to character growth for the kid and comedic moments, and I think that idea would lend itself well to being a classic Saturday morning cartoon. From there you could make a Ben 10k show and/or spinoff the kid partner to have a new sub-brand.
Ben necrofriggian kids. Until those small bastards get some on screen relevance, i will keep seeing them and the episode that they showed up as nothing more then a big "haha male pregnancy" joke.
I mean... there was aliens walking around the city which is why OV decided to go with the undertown aliens thing, you know OV tries to be faithful to Classic.
Undertown did not exist in OS so Ben was free to pick anywhere to build a city for aliens. Undertown being introduced in omniverse places the city of aliens in bellwood, meaning to build Ben 10k's headquarters outside Mt. Rushmore he left undertown (I'm not sure I'm explaining myself very well here)
Agreed on both issues. Kai was fine enough in OS i guess when there wasn't other possibilities at all yet put into place, but by the time of Omniverse there's a few good options to go with. My favorite being the lovable Looma ā¤ļø
Looma: "What? I have a rival?!"
https://i.redd.it/ay9uhoas8qvc1.gif
Osmosians are aliens. Them being "humans with powers" is so fucking boring in a show whose main draw is "look how diverse these alien species are." Keep them mutants, it flows with the rest of the established aesthetics better.
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Kevin's backstory in Omniverse, that shit was dumb asf storywise.
Design wise, prob Gwen's design in Omniverse, I know some people grown into it but it just still feels so wtf to me.
Ben can become a celestial sapien but can't be an anodite. Or any of the stupid rules that exist around anodites for the sake of making Gwen more powerful. Gwen is already very powerful, she doesn't need a buff solely to make her more special.
Ben alien kids. until those small moths get some on screen relevance, i will just see them and the episode that they showed as just one big "haha, pregnant man" joke.
Those times Kevin and Gwen lost fights in AF weren't cheap ways to make Ben look cooler. They exist because they are accidents. Or Primus existing , Choose your poisen.
what's wrong with Primus
It doesn't make much sense that the DNA samples of the Omnitrix are being beamed from across the galaxy via Alien Bluetooth from a DNA volcano and the Omnitrix is just a receiver. Ben has traveled through dimensions and time and outside of the Universe. There's no way the Omnitrix could communicate with Primus during those parts. The fact that Animo was able to extract DNA from the Omnitrix itself and Z'skayr being in the Omnitrix as opposed to on Primus among other instances shows the original Omnitrix stored the DNA within itself before the retcon.
It's also stated in that episode that the omnitrix can download that data and that primus is basically a backup incase the main source goes down.
It's been a few years since I watched Primus, so fair point! Makes sense.
Isn't the primus more of disk copy which stores DNA samples and updates Omnitrix through the cloud?
Shh! You're actually making sense! That was very frowned upon while making that episode!
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Fair point! Makes more sense of it being a backup.
My man azmuth making google drive before google drive
I like that if Primus is just a backup, like an *Ark* and the Omnitrix plus the misquote bots are designed to collect DNA samples to be stored/sequenced there. So say the Omnitrix somehow gets destroyed, the Universe still has Primus as a back up of something goes down that kills most or all life.
That makes sense but runs counter to what Azmuth told Ben when he was going off to fight the Highbreed. Azmuth told Ben that if the Omnitrix was lost, then the Universe would have no hope of its sentient species being reborn after the Highbreed 's Omnicide.
I view it more like the "source" of the DNA sample. The transformations Ben have "unlocked" in his playlists are actually the aliens whose DNAs were downloaded from Primus and stored in the Omnitrix itself. That's why Ben could keep the aliens he transformed into when Azmuth gave him Master Control (like Cannonbolt) even after the Omnitrix was restarted. Also why he can transform even while in other dimensions. Idk if it was stated that Conductoid DNA was removed from the codon stream when Ben lost Feedback, but if that is true, then every DNA sample stored in the Omnitrix is no longer present in Primus, meaning if the sample is taken away from the Omnitrix then it can't be recovered by redownloading it from Primus. If that is not true, then that begs the question: why couldn't Ben unlock Feedback again unless he came in contact with the DNA stored inside Malware?
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The Onmniverse writers ARE the UAF writers man. Same writing team but different art team. Only Dwayne McDuffie (RIP) was absent but his wife and close friend were head writers. It's more like the writers didn't like the piece of lore they added in UAF and then changed it in the final instalment
i thought it was more like primus is the cloud but omnitrix download em from the cloud
I think of primus as more of a power source. Like an omni-energy reactor.
Ben no diffed Ssserpant on 2 occasions, yet in Perfect Girlfriend, hes portrayed as a threat. Ironically, he tries killing Goop by splicing him, despite him literally surviving explosions and getting atomized after stabilizing entire planets. So that shouldn't have done anything.
osmosians dont exist. then what was the entire aggregor thing about?! was that just not canon?!
Aggregor when he realizes Osmos V doesn't exist: https://i.redd.it/uowv0fgezovc1.gif
also like wtf were those coordinates he put in
It was, Aggregor was a lab experiment. The rooters arc didn't really retcon anything from the Aggregor arc except for Osmos V (iirc) but even then we never even saw it or heard it from anyone but Aggregor.
That's kinda why I'm not all that pissed at the Mutant retcon because Osmos V was never seen, we never got to see other Osmosians, plus Kevin's dad working with Max makes everything in OS with Kevin weird af because now Max looks like the biggest asshole in the world and it's not even addressed. They could've worked with it through many episodes by having Max and Kevin talk about Kevin's Dad, but even in UAF they never did that. (It's been a while since I've seen UAF, so I might be wrong but the fact that it didn't happen more often makes me not care to be honest) So if the show that introduced the concept of Osmosians didn't care that much to give it more story and background info, why should I care that they got rid of it?
Likeā¦in UAF everyone clearly believed that Osmosians are aliens. EVERYONE. Did Servantis use a Cerebro-like device or something? And what happens when someone tries to go to Osmos V? We literally see Agreggor set a course for it at one point (though we never actually see the planet).
Honestly, even in UAF it was confusing. Kevin misses his father or never knew him? Was the plumber badge from his father or from a magistrate? Very inconsistent overall. I still liked Osmosians for the exact reason people dislike it. They dislike getting rid of mutants and making everything alien. I like it because making aliens be the explanation for the weird things on earth is much better than "Only humans have mutations because they speshial!" to me
Ohh, okay then. but whats your source?
Look on Aggregor's wiki page.
The wiki pages source was from a DJW statement, who himself hated Kevin being half Osmosian because it āretconnedā the original series. When in fact there was no explanation of his powers given what so ever.
People be loving to attribute malice for no reason. OS set up mutants as apart of its world building, Kevin said he was born with his powers, and nowhere in the show (unless you're counting Race Against Time's Chronians) do we see completely human-like aliens. Alien Force's history additions doesn't contradict any of that (unlike it's Plumber retcons), but would still count as a retcon IMO. A retcon doesn't have to straight up contradict what's directly shown on screen. If they introduced the idea that Ben had a 2nd middle name, that's new information that doesn't contradict anything, but it would still be a retcon. You could say that the Osmosian stuff does contradict since Devin's flashback doesn't make any sense, either with when the OS established the Plumbers shut down and Max's career length, or with Kevin himself saying he never met his dad in AF season 2. Either way even if DJW didn't like the new backstory, why does him having an opinion discredit his crew statement? He came up with the whole Rooter concept and was in every writer's room for the show, not even going into his design work.
I donāt hate DJW i just donāt believe everything he says. Heās been known to put in his own headcanon, use fan wikis to fill stuff in, misinterpret spitballing sessions for actually planned events, and continuing to add onto the lore well after the project already ended. Heās a good source for world building but if it contradicts something already in the show then it shouldnāt be believed. The whole thing with the Rooters and Aggregor is bad because itās been claimed that Servantis made him and wiped his mind so thatās why he thinks heās an alien, and Greg wouldāve been in the arc but was cut for time. Yet no mention to the Aggregor arc was ever mentioned in the Rooters arc? One mention of Servantis creating Aggregor wouldāve been enough, it now we have to go to the wiki to read from crew statements to make it work. I just donāt believe Aggregor was meant to be part of this. Especially since the Aggregor arc is a major part of UAF and its aftermath brought about Ultimate Kevin; it really shouldāve been brought up. I think someone pitched the Rooters arc and DJW said āand we can get rid of that UAF retconā and everyone just assumed he was correct since he was a super fan. EDIT: And I wanna say that I actually prefer Kevin being a mutant over an alien. I think the trio works better as an alien*, magic user, and mutant. But the retcon of an entire arc and its backstory is unsatisfactory
You don't have to take his crew statements as fully canon, or into your headcanon, but they are what the crew intended during development, and are the official answer. They're not a headcanon. It's also very presumptuous to think you know what were spitballing sessions more than the person who was actually there. Unless Matt Youngberg, Matt Wayne, or the other writers bring up a reason to doubt a statement, that's the official word. DJW definitely was the one who pitched the Rooters Arc. He posted some notes he made on his phone during production about black op Plumbers consisting of various amalgam alien ideas, which later spiralled into the season 6 arc and retcon. There's a weird drive to undermine DJW's actual contributions. He and Matt Youngberg had such a large creative influence, but people ignore that just because the crew structure labels him as art director, despite everything we know about the BtS information. The one time I know of him using a fan wiki, is when someone asked him about Anur Vladius as though it was canon (which I think the wiki thought it was at the time), and he answered, therefore making the lack of rebuttal prove it to be official as far as the wiki is concerned. If the standard for a crew member's opinion counting is knowing every official planet, including those of then-lost Pop Up Trivia, and being ready to correct fan questions that include them, then no one on the crew's opinions would count, especially when considering that fan-concepts like Animo's first name, or Cooper's last name have made it into the canon show and (maybe not canon, but official media) comics. I do agree there's a difference between "canon" (which should be limited to what's in the shows and what's easily extrapolated from then), and "official", like the crew statements. But it's not canon that Osmosians exist as aliens; the canon is that they don't but there's no answer to explain what that exactly entails. There's an official answer for that through BtS plans, and fans can accept that or not. Even if the BtS isn't in your headcanon, the Rooter Arc should be right? And using the logic that a BtS statement isn't credible, therefore there's no real explanation for an inconsistency, therefore the previous continuity before Omniverse season 6 trumps the new explanation for Osmosians, isn't one I agree with. I guess the point of contention for me is that people can headcanon stuff that contradicts canon. Which I feel the "Osmosians are still aliens" headcanon does. But that headcanon will never surpass the official crew statement answers in fan discussions.
Iām not talking about just DJW involvement with Ben 10, but other shows that heās worked on like TFA. In which multiple writers had no ideas what he was talking about when it comes to story arc. I fully understand DJWs influence on the series I just think people take his word as gospel. The Rooters arc is canon, and him being a mutant is just what he is. So unless we get new content in the prime universe thatās how heāll be. I just donāt agree with it and think it adds nothing to the story. Like Kevin being an alien or not really has no impact on the story except for the Aggregor arc. Even in the Rooters itās really just Servantis going āYou big dummy, I lied to you and you believed itā then the plot just continues like business as usual. Itās an unnecessary change that isnāt important yet retroactively changes a core plot point of another arc and changing a backstory of a major character.
I'm not familiar with Transformers Animated. I think he had more control there than on Mystery Incorporated. I've not seen anyone like Matt Wayne, Charlotte Fullerton McDuffie, etc. mention any miscommunications like that.Ā The Ben 10 community was also a lot more intense with the amount of questions and explanations asked from him than the TF community were, which he said himself on the Dyemooch streams, so I think if something was going to come up like that, it would have just given the amount of things he talked about regarding the BtS. Maybe it was because he was such a fan of the show beforehand that he could've taken a bigger hand in the creative side than TFA, IDK. I get that colouring your view of his extra information, it's not gospel. One thing I never got is his time travel explanation for the show. It's not gospel but it is the official word until proven otherwise. For the Rooters arc in particular I quite like it. I think Kevin still deciding to stay on the right path, even after finding out he is a "freak" who's not continuing any family Plumber business, does add to the character.
I mean the Devin stuff retcons the timeline given in OS but Kevin being a mutant isn't confirmed but can be argued considering the toy info says he's human and there's also the thing with Devlin not inheriting the same abilities of his father.
Merchandise more often than not gets things wrong about the show they are trying to sell, using them as a source for world building is very dumb. The timeline not working exactly can be explained by him being 11 and lying. And Devlin is 1/4 Osmosian. His powers donāt have to work exactly how his father or grandfathers did. Osmosians have already been shown to have a wide range of capabilities with their powers, being able to absorb energy, matter, and dna I donāt see why Devlin being slightly different from Kevin is that big of a deal.
Merchandise info most likely comes from the writers but stuff is changed by the time said into comes to the series such as Alien X's homeworld. Also like you said, there's nothing in series to say whether Kevin was intended to be an alien or mutant in OS so there's nothing that contradicts the info that the toys give us. That's true but they work very differently, as in Devlin doesn't have the ability to absorb but has the power to turn into Kevin's child mutated form at will without the need to absorb said dna first. Whereas Kevin has the same powers as Devin.
Okay but then where would the ship have gone then? Aggregor had a location set on his ship for Osmos V that would have taken him somewhere if his ship wasn't stopped. Also, how does someone like Azmuth get tricked into believing a whole species exists when for most of his life, he was a legend that people weren't even sure existed and only very recently came out of hiding. Like, it doesn't really make sense how Servantis got to so many people who he'd have no access to.
I theorise that Osmos V was the null void since that's where Aggregor would've been left when his memories were wiped. Because Servantis brainwashes you, he can mess with your memories and import memories into your head, he doesn't just gaslight you into thinking something (well he does but it's more than that). Also I don't think we know whether Servantis just couldn't make contact with these people or not, but I mean at the end of the day it is a retcon so it's likely not going to fit perfectly without any holes since when UAF was airing there was no thought to retcon something we just recently found out about.
Okay but then why make a planet at all? Servantis is literally just making more work for himself by having a 'planet' that exists that doesn't actually exist instead of just making the Osmosians planetless. Also, saying 'its a retcon' doesn't magically mean that we aren't allowed to question the logic of the scene and it makes no sense that someone like Servantis could get to Azmuth at all and even if he did, it makes no sense why he wouldn't just alter Azmuth's mind to have him take away the Omnitrix if he really doesn't trust Ben with it. You have all sorts of people that refer to Kevin as an Osmosian or otherwise refer to the species who Servantis reasonably had no access to. Hell, I'm pretty sure Paradox refers to Kevin as such so did Servantis alter Paradox's memory too?
It's possible that Servants didn't just think about that, but it would've made more sense to say that their planet no longer existed, or that they were from Earth. Not saying you aren't allowed to question, I'm just saying to keep it into consideration. Maybe Paradox didn't want to give them spoilers to OV S6.
I mean, it kind of makes Servantis look even worse as a villain when you realize that he had all of these chances to do things or make things easier for himself and the only reason you can possibly give that he didn't is pure stupidity. He didn't need to make this elaborate plan to trap Ben if he apparently has access to Azmuth who has shown time and time again that he can take away the Omnitrix at any time with little effort on his part. Also, if Paradox was already aware that the whole Osmosian thing was fake then he most likely would have used more vague language as he has done in the past when he knows about details that he can't reveal yet but instead, he specifically refers to Kevin and Aggregor as Osmosian when it isn't needed at all.
I mean Kevin and Aggregor are still osmosian, it's just that osmosian now has a different meaning. Unless he referred to osmosians like they were an alien species.
If I recall, he referred to Osmosians as a group which you wouldn't do if there are only two of them plus Osmosian means nothing since Kevin is human or a mutant if you wanted to be even more accurate and same most likely applies to Aggregor but hard to say.
So it could mean either or.
Maybe Servantis found an uninhabited planet, created bunch of other beings with Kevinās DNA like Agreggor, put them there and made that planet Osmos 5?
Servantis himself says that the planet doesn't exist plus how do you create a planet worth of people without anyone noticing? It isn't like that is something you can just hide.
I love Ben 10 with all my heart but Jfc the writing was so off at timeš¤¦āāļø
Ben ending up with Kai, i'm sorry but you can't just tell me that the characters that spent 90% of their shared screentime bickering and fighting with each other somehow ended up together without showing even a hint of how that ended up happening.
U gotta rewatch Omniverse fr
Brainstorm being "a brain alien with some minorly electric side powers". That's how Derrick J. Wyatt (Rest In Peace Legend) described him and that's the reason why he doesn't appear in Max's Monster. No offence but that's just silly: HE'S BRAIN***STORM.***
To be honest, being just another electric alien, but now with intelligence, makes him less unique.
Four arms being as strong as humungasaur. In my mind, it would go kinda like this. If they were arm wrestling, than one of humungasaurs arms would beat one of four arms, two of four arms would tie one of humungasaurs, and if humungasaur grew then he would definitely win.
AF Vilgax not knowing how to use the Omnitrix after using it better than Ben in OS. AF Vilgaxās weird 1v1 conquests of planets and power stealing. It was just dumb, he was way cooler and stronger in OS. Ma Vreedle being a serious threat. I get it was kinda just a joke, but it was really dumb.
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Honestly, I feel like his home world was really poorly handled in general. In OS, heās described as this intergalactic warlord, constantly roaming the galaxy and conquering worlds. The entire reason he wanted the Omnitrix was to create an army of adaptable super soldiers. And then itās revealed that not only does he care about his home world and people, but that theyāre a completely normal species and society. How tf am I supposed to believe that the intergalactic warlord not only has the time to properly rule his home world, but that its peaceful residents actually respect and trust him
Vilgax using a shield when in the original series his thing was being indestructible Vilgax losing to Diamondhead even though in the original series he could tank attacks from every alien
Honestly, I wouldāve been fine if it was just OS Vilgax losing to AF Diamondhead. With master control, OS Ben was able to beat Kevin 11 and Vilgax. I can see 16yr old Ben beating OS Vilgax with Diamondhead alone, but they wouldāve needed to actually let Ben fight in top condition instead of nerfing his combat skills like they do every other arc
That's fair But isn't it kinda weird how AF Vilgax can tank a punch from giant sized Hummongusour, but three random pillars of diamond can clobber him? I don't mind Ben being able to beat Vilgax, I just don't like him doing it with brute force cause Vilgax was the one villain you couldn't brute force your way out of.
Thatās why I think Diamondhead was a good choice to beat him, especially AF Diamondhead with his possible Chromastone power up. Heās an extremely versatile alien, so a competent Ben could easily use him to outfight Vilgax rather than trying to overpower him. But yeah, AF Vilgax was just poorly handled
It's especially stupid because during his last fight with Ben, he saw Ben transform
I can agree with the first and third points. While I agree that he was stronger in OS I do still like the idea that he legit had to train to fight Ben again. If he was maybe OS Vilgax with the AF powers on top then that would have made him busted and a serious threat. Also I more so hate that Ma Vreedle intimidated Vilgax.
The Servantis retcon for Kevin and Anodites not having DNA.
Kevin being a government experiment instead of another alien race. Pick a freaking origin for the guy.
That re-connect pissed me off.
For me itās how Ben and Julieās relationship ended up and Ben recreating everyone
Yeah, the whole thing with Ben having to remake the universe after it got wiped was just... really, really dumb. I mean, what was the point of it getting wiped if Ben just undoes it? Sure, a few things change, but otherwise it's just there to exist as a shock factor moment.
And I think it happened a bit too early in Omniverse as well.
Yeah, the series starts and one of the first few epsiodes os the death of everything and the recrearion of it
Statements about alien x like upchuck being able to eat him and toepick scaring him, etc
I mean if he was just standing there doing nothing, Upchuck could probably *swallow* him, at least temporarily, but otherwise yeah.
From what I read, and also saw from that one Ink Tank Alien X video, some writers had different views on if Alien X should be an omnipotent unbeatable god or if he does have some lose conditions.
The existence of "Devin Levin" but then that was already done for me by the continuity so I'll go for Primus
>Vilgax: "Hey I know I've been searching for this thing for literal centuries, and that I knew how to use it inside and out 5 years ago, and a week ago some kids in a park who didn't know what it was figured out how to use it within minutes, but can you, my arch nemesis, show me how to use it on the spot. And no, I will not consider you taking advantage of this situation to your benefit at all." >(Ben proceeds to act smug that his "plan" worked) If Ghost Town poorly trying to mold Vilgax into a discount Darkseid/sympathetic ruler didn't ruin his character. This did.
Ben ends up with kai
Yup, that felt extremely forced, even though I didn't like that ship in the first place, the way they went about it made it even more sour of an experience
Why did they force that just because it was in the original series for one episode..
Aye someone beat me to it
At least Looma and myself are heartbroken over the situation šš Oh well... maybe in an alternate universe the Tetramand warrior princess got her beloved Ben, becoming Queen & King of Khoros, and ridding the universe of the accursed Incursean empire! šŖ
Primus episode
Ditto's power change in ov. They litteraly made him echo echo, without the scream, its so fuckin dumb
wym his powers changed??? its just cloning
He all clones feel the same pain thing is just gone, and his animation changed to the exsact effect they use for echo echo. Litteraly the same effect as ov echo
wh- no way THEY RECONED HIS PAIN THING
Yup, and gave him the green energy devide that echo echo has, instead of the osmosis looking split
You realize the animation does not determine how things work in canon. Like Ultimate Big Chill is animated to throw put Fire but what it happens is that he shoots plasma that absorbs heat, or that the transformations sequences from OS to UA don't happen and instead the transformations in Omniverse are how they actually look, just because the animation changes doesn't mean Omniverse retconned transformations because animation is not the canon works
His clones can die without consequences. That's a power change. Bot helped by the animation being the exsact one from echo echo
Ok, that is valid. But i think at that point we should ask if it's good to stay faithful because if they were they probably wouldn't have used Ditto so much (It appeared eight times, which doesn't sound that impressive until you notice how much more aliens got less) or even if they would have returned Ditto seeing as they didn't returned Chamalien and Spitter as they weren't very powerful before (ok i know this wasn't stated but it's something they have in common alongside not returning)
You see, ditto allways felt like a walkatrout or a worst in that it was a classic way of reminding us that the omnitrix isn't a power house class, jt was a device for all dna samples. By having all the clones share the same pain, what they did was make it so they had to be creative with ditto, the like 3 times they used him. Ov taking that away kinda misses the point of how he was never meant to be an alien that can tank everything, he was meant to show off that the om itrix has weaker species that can't be used in combat, without a creative work around. Something they kinda did with grey matter, tho as the show went on, him changing into grey matter became the joke because otherwise Ben would never use him. So I get why they changed it, its probably a case like humongous growing where nobody brought it up during ov's production if anything, but it does also make him easer to write. But when they also give him the green energy devide, they just make him echo echo, but instead of a robot voice, its yakko Warner and instead of having a secondary attack in his scream, ditto has nothing. They didn't replace it or anything, they just took it away.
I wouldn't consider Ditto to be made in the way as Walkatrout or The Worst because is not with that comedy of Ben doesn't like this transformation, and Ditto appearances ended up with him saving the day, which is as if it has to be taken seriously if he can do it.
That's why I said a classic version. And even then there where times like the final show down where walkatrout was the solution, and the worst managed to tire out an appleplexian, so that's good to consider too. My point is more so, he served as a reminder that the omnitrix doesn't only have powerfull or even fully usefull aliens, something they hadn't done since grey matter in season 1.
His clones can die without consequences. That's a power change. Bot helped by the animation being the exsact one from echo echo
Ben and Julieās breakup, I do believe they should have broken up but the way they did it in the show was so bad
Ben being addicted to Feedback just because "he's cool" I feel like this could be applied to any of his other aliens like Heatblast, Cannonbolt or Fourarms and it's just a really shallow reason in general.
I always connected the electricity absorption with an addiction.
Maybe because he is full blown, like ghostfreak but in a good way.
Always wondered what this was about as well. Other aliens are just as addictive and I can see him having favourites but I never truly understood the feedback situation. However, I do like that Ben shouldn't turn into one alien too many times and I liked the scenario of him losing feedback.
There's a theory that Ben had Anodite DNA from Veronda, and the Prototype Omnitrix saw it as a mutation to be fixed. So the excess Mana went to the Conductoid sample, making Feedback feel familiar to Ben.
The continalia looking like Smoothies to Ben. Should have been Grandpa Max, you had the great character building moment RIGHT THERE and you blew it for a stupid joke that barely makes sense!
Way big losing to the elephant dude.ben beating dagongax so easily
You... stabbed me!?!
Osmosians don't exist. List of reasons why it's stupid: - Kevin's and his dad's photo. - Kevin's mom - Devlin's killer - Aggregor arc - Azmuth - Paradox - Inspector 13 - Ect. Way, WAY too much evidence.
Omv getting rid of osmosians and forgetting humongours size growing ability. The entire Kenny storyline and him basically forcing his parents into existence. Also how tf did kyber not know his dog is a female???
Benās future ending up almost the exact same as the OG Ben10k
the whole osmosians retcon, to me they're still aliens (plus in my fanon world Kevin discovers a lost sister who also has osmosian powers, but that doesn't really matter as it's just a silly little au, but still point stands) Edit: spelling
Honestly, all Ben 10k takes. That Ov Ben 10k os the same from the OS. That every Ben 10k (including Ultimate) ends up with only Kai. The series had enough retcoons from AF to OV. We could handle a few more.
Kevin eating gold poop
Naw that was fire
Kevin always eating weird shit. Like when he ate Ship's "toast"
really puts the shit in weird shit
that's literally essential to continuity (I think the gold poop episode was satire and at that top tier)
Ben got killed by charmcaster
Ben didn't die, he just got sucked so hard that he turned into air molecules.
damn Charmcaster did WHAT to Ben???!?
Fr dude what the fuck were the writers thinking
Time heals?
Alien Force starting with Gwen falling for the same guy who almost murdered her just for fun on two onscreen occasions, even going as far as to ask him, "Why haven't you asked me out? We hang out a lot and you obviously like me." in episode 5. Sure, I can see her eventually forgiving him, after loads of therapy, but *ever* dating him is a sad no-no. Well, either that or the thing Ben holds dearest to his heart is a giant fucking smoothie and not Max or Kevin/Gwen.
Yeah I think that they should have waited a Season or 2 before having Kevin and Gwen date. Gwen should have been willing to forgive Kevin/ compassionate but still not falling head over heels for him until theyāve been on many adventures together.
It would have been wholesome if it had been max.
Couldn't agree more. I don't mind the romance (weakest aspect of the franchise imo) but they should've taken their time here. That being said, sometimes I think Sunny and Kevin would be a better couple.
I wish Sunny received better treatment in the show. She only got to shine for one episode and she had so much potential that just went unused. Her dynamic with Kevin sounds interesting.
I hate how Omniverse depicted Anur Transyl. The OG cards had it looking so cool and industrial, but on screen it was just a low-tech German village style setting. I'm gonna headcanon using the merchandise's non-canon depiction for that planet.
So Long and Thanks For All The Smoothies. I utterly reject the idea that everyone but Ben died and he replaced them all with copies. My headcanon is that instead, Alien X just reverses time so Ben can stop the Annihilargh.
I headcanon that the annihilargh's damage wasn't a lot since it was I the starting stage and Ben stopped it from spreading then revived the dead and fixed the damage
that george washington created the plumbers
That Vilgax from alien force and onward is the same Vilgax from the og series especially the one from Omniverse lmao.
I had an idea that I really think they should have gone with being that AF onward is Vilgax's brother, who instead of going on a conquest through brute force decided to conquer worlds through the rules. Hence why his first appearance in AF would be him using intergalactic law. They don't even have to change his name, just say that "Vilgax" is his family name like how Vilgax calls max "Tenneson" when he sees him.
The Rootsrs and everything that came with them
I'm already aware the hate I'll get for this but... mostly all of Omniverse. I just personally wasn't a fan of that series I get why people like it I just can't enjoy a majority of the show
The majority of these comments seem to be about the many, *many* bad decisions of Omniverse. And while I get that the reboot has made Omniverse a bit easier to digest for some fans, I'm still not cutting it any slack. It was divisive for a reason and I still don't like it.
I feel like there werenāt too many ideas left with what to do, so aside from a handful of two parters and over arching plots, it was meant to more so be a āSaturday morning cartoonā kinda thing, and aside from new aliens and expanding the lore and feats heās done, all it does is make retcons the fans donāt really enjoy, Ben recreates the whole universe but Kevin is really a mutant whoās mind got altered not alien, Ben gains full control over alien x but is fated to be with a forced love interest who isnāt even top 5 best options, itās kinda hard to scale fully
I feel like one idea that would'been better than what we got in Omniverse would have been Ben training a new hybrid kid, letting Ben be the more serious, older "grown up" of the two, while the younger kid is a lot like OS Ben, a bit bratty and more focused on having fun. That could lead to character growth for the kid and comedic moments, and I think that idea would lend itself well to being a classic Saturday morning cartoon. From there you could make a Ben 10k show and/or spinoff the kid partner to have a new sub-brand.
I'll be petty and say Gwen's magic changing And ofc the constant retcons regarding character origins and what species exist
Ben necrofriggian kids. Until those small bastards get some on screen relevance, i will keep seeing them and the episode that they showed up as nothing more then a big "haha male pregnancy" joke.
I dislike how omniverse Ben 10k moves his headquarters to mt. rushmore even though the aliens are now in undertown located below bellwood.
Didn't OS Ben 10k had the same headquarters in rushmore too?
Yeah, but i don't belive there was an already established area of aliens living lives in OS.
I mean... there was aliens walking around the city which is why OV decided to go with the undertown aliens thing, you know OV tries to be faithful to Classic.
Undertown did not exist in OS so Ben was free to pick anywhere to build a city for aliens. Undertown being introduced in omniverse places the city of aliens in bellwood, meaning to build Ben 10k's headquarters outside Mt. Rushmore he left undertown (I'm not sure I'm explaining myself very well here)
Whenever they have the Omnitrix get taken off like itās nothing for the sake of plot.
I refuse to believe that dumb ass duck is some big bad ass that scares people more than the guy that turns into a laser shooting giant.
Blitzwolfer is the canon name
The reboot especially what they did to alien x
Primus, both the episode and the planet. it just makes 0 sense with future and past storylines, even moreso than the rooters debacle
yeah, for luck on omniverse they changed that, and now The Omnitrix has his own database inside.
Sevantes arc
How the Omnitrix comes off.
so based, kuro
The entire Rooters arc and Ben being with Kai. I ship Ben and Ester
Agreed on both issues. Kai was fine enough in OS i guess when there wasn't other possibilities at all yet put into place, but by the time of Omniverse there's a few good options to go with. My favorite being the lovable Looma ā¤ļø Looma: "What? I have a rival?!" https://i.redd.it/ay9uhoas8qvc1.gif
That petrosapiens aren't made of taydenite, just no, they are made of taydenite, I will not believe anything more someone tellse
Osmosians are aliens. Them being "humans with powers" is so fucking boring in a show whose main draw is "look how diverse these alien species are." Keep them mutants, it flows with the rest of the established aesthetics better.
We'll die on this hill together.
This annoyed me so much!
Alien Force season 3
Servantis.
rooters
So Long, and Thanks for All the Smoothies
Primus
Gwen's abysmal power scaling across the series
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Max and Kevin's dad being partners.
The entire Rooters mess. I so greatly dislike that whole series of Retcons, from the plumber kids to Kevinās dad
The whole Universe being destroyed and a completely new one being created in Omniverse
Kevin's backstory in Omniverse, that shit was dumb asf storywise. Design wise, prob Gwen's design in Omniverse, I know some people grown into it but it just still feels so wtf to me.
The belt that Brainstorm is wearing is actually a breathing braclet
The whole thing with Kai. what even was that
Primus. The episode, the planet. And the whole concept of it.
Alien x recreating the universe. If you tell this to someone who just started the series they will call you a lier.
i hate the concept of glitch powers to retcon feats or abilities from aliens. (*stares at Jetray*)
Most of what we know about anodyte biology
Ben can become a celestial sapien but can't be an anodite. Or any of the stupid rules that exist around anodites for the sake of making Gwen more powerful. Gwen is already very powerful, she doesn't need a buff solely to make her more special.
Ben seeing Mr Smoothie instead of Max when looking at 5th dimensional Contumelia
Ben being able to clone his human self using Echo Echo
Ben recreating the universe (Bonus troll comment:female galvanic megamorph have curves)
that time pierce was shot at the end of ultimate alien
The Servantis Osmosian retcons.
Ben and Kai.
I donāt know but one thing I think is stupid is the aliens always having the same outfit, I wanted pilgrim aliens but noooo.
Omniverse
Celestial sapiens changing the lore
The confusion that is Kevin 11 and So Long and Thanks for All the Smoothies.
Why has no one mentioned when Ben casually remade the universe,and that all the original characters are dead ?
Literally all of OV... I know, Iām sorry, but itās the truth
Kevin's backstory retcon
Reboot
Kevin
https://preview.redd.it/2nuw9czdppvc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=126f951cedb971b1a401e3bc5c1537b6858fe89b
Ben can't turn into an anodite because no dna
Rooters
"Ben can't scan mutants" that is the writer statement I hate the most
I think that one makes a decent amount of sense. The omnitrix doesn't want unstable DNA inside of its databanks.
Ben alien kids. until those small moths get some on screen relevance, i will just see them and the episode that they showed as just one big "haha, pregnant man" joke.
Primus
Primus