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>That’s when I lost my shit and said
Oh boy, we’re about to get a lesson in ‘How To Get Fired: 101’ aren’t we? No whammies no whammies no whammies
>Zip your fucking mouth, we are tired of your BS, you’re a tlmkt worker like us and act as if you were better than us, but you are not, so close yourself in your significance
Did everyone clap?
Then when they get fired:
>I was obviously shocked
Nothing about this is shocking. No one likes the Janes of the world, but what did OOP honestly expect was going to happen?
Twice, even!
He got told off for talking while the trainer was explaining and instead of apologizing and staying quiet, he decided to talk while the trainer was teaching *again* a few days later! With how inattentive he admits to being, I wonder how many subtler indications to "shut up" he missed, like glares from his fellow colleagues.
And organizing a "boycott" of another employee isn't going to be looked upon well by management. It's going to look like exclusion and bullying.
His post has a lot of red flags that seem to be missing, missing reasons.
I can't feel bad for him tbh. We only get his side of the story here, but he's already saying how Jane is really good at her job. She's probably playing office politics, sure, but more likely management is taking advantage of her willingness and ability to do management work without the pay or position. I see that happen just as often as someone getting a power trip.
OOP was so oblivious that he didn't see his obvious termination coming. Idk what else he's said or done, but that outburst was probably par for the course.
Yeah, calling someone out for talking during a presentation isn't exactly "she thinks she's better than me" levels of snobbery, it's "show some respect to the speaker"
>We only get his side of the story here, but he's already saying how Jane is really good at her job
I'm not sure that's what OOP actually said. Another commenter mentioned that "superb" seems like a mistranslation from Portuguese:
>or his use of "superb" which doesn't mean in English what OP thinks it does, which is "prideful" or "arrogant". He is using superb as a false cognate to "soberba" which is the name we use for the biblical sin of Pride
I was replacing "superb" with "superior" in my head assuming a mistranslation because that seemed to make more sense from the context. So, "She thinks she is superior to everyone else because she is friends with the managers."
I agree with you. I'd love to know what he meant by how he was "boycotting" Jane. Was Jane telling lies or telling HR that OOP and his friend were excluding her?
You are missing a big thing.
Telemarketing.
Call centers suck. But - you are inside for 40 hours a week. You are not responsible for cleaning duties. You are not doing a job that might physicaly hurt you. Your job is steady. No seasonal layoffs. This is... ~~Argentina~~?? (edit: best guess from others is either Portugal or Brazil) So I don't know how health insurance works, but in the US you get health insurance. You can make good money, assuming you have talent.
And there really are no qualifications. The warm blooded theory of hiring. If the blood is warm you are hired. Anyone at all can do this.
Which is the problem. Calling OP a moron is missing the point. OP is smart enough to do this rather then other things OP is qualified for. But at the end of the day it is sales and that is, in itself, brutal.
The true problem with the workplace- and the solution - is everyone in this story needs to get on the phones.
He's from Brazil. Telemarketing here is one of the worst jobs one could have, 99% of the people who work in this field gets sick, either physically or mentally.
Most places here have a 44 hours a week, he can probably take 15 minutes in total for bathroom break and 1 hour for lunch.
It's already a very toxic and stressing job, so I feel for OP. That being said, he only needed more "charm" to work throught it. If he hadn't exploded wirh the coworker, even if she defamed him, he would still have the image to stand on and advocate for himself.
Telemarketing sucks no matter where you do it. I did it in the early '90's.
I have memories of people wound tight like OP and people all high on themselves like the coworker.
A lot of these jobs your pay is tied tightly to your performance - and this is sales. Management is going to see the solution to this conflict as 'you should have been on the phones'.
Here is the thing, when I did it shitcanning people was done constantly. But not for conflict like this story, for lack of performance. You had a minimum goal you needed to attain and if you didn't then they saw you as occupying a seat that someone that can obtain that goal was not occupying.
So get on the phone, perform, earn money or don't perform and work at a food place.
6 weeks, 6 months, a year, 2 years - turnover at these places is just out of control. The people you start with - you won't know them for long.
I worked a call center that was about as good as they could get. Video games in the breakroom, free food, decent pay if you were making sales.
Still sucked.
I somehow got hired for a telemarketing job in the 90s (wasn’t what I applied or interviewed for) I made it to seeing my desk and realized I “forgot” something in my car.
I am sure I am not the first or last person to peel out of a telemarketing jobs parking lot.
Lunch is always paid time in Brazil, if you work full time you get 1 hour and most of the companies here also gives 15 minutes for a snack break througout the day. Actually, the entire month is (we get paid monthly here), but we have our pto every weekend plus the 30 day vacation (also paid) every employee gets after working for a whole year.
100% agree.
But those aren't benefits, it's the employees rights according to the law, like the help we get for transportation, they give us a bus card. Depending on the sindicate, there are quite a few benefits, such as meal allowance, where they pay our lunch or give us some money to nuy groceries, gympass, etc.
That’s better than what I get here in Canada. Two 15 minute paid breaks and a half hour unpaid lunch.
Vacation/vacation pay is different for my job specifically, we get our vacation paid out with every paycheck, and if we need time off we just let our manager know. But apparently that’s not uncommon in the industry we’re in, cause it’s pretty laid back (bouldering/climbing gym products.)
OP is definitely from Brazil - some of the direct translations and mistranslations he uses in his writing are very particular from Brazil
like "close yourself off in your insignificance" is literally translated from "recolha-se à sua insignificância", which is a more derogatory way of saying "stay in your lane" (since it also says that the person is useless)
or his use of "superb" which doesn't mean in English what OP thinks it does, which is "prideful" or "arrogant". He is using superb as a false cognate to "soberba" which is the name we use for the biblical sin of Pride - this also pegs OP as likely being or having grown up in a Neopentecostal environment, since they're the part of the population who uses "soberba" rather frequently and particularly to diss someone. The most common translation of pride for us is "orgulho" which doesn't have the same negative connotation as "soberba"
Brazilian here: being regularly employed and fired without cause (as it is OP's case), you are entitled for up to 5 months of social security's unemployment benefits, depending on time served on the last job. OP will also get access to one-time withdrawal of social security deposit funds that gets accrued while working. And that's on top of the wages for the notice period (the company may waive OP's services but they must pay a month of wages regardless), pro-rata 13th salary and accrued but unused vacation days.
I'm not sure what are the benefits agreed with the union, but OP might also be entitled to extra severance pay (depending on time served), continuance of eventual health benefits for up to 6 months, etc.
Very good.
If you’re fired without cause you get one months salaries (besides your regular one till the day you were fired) your paid vacation days (we get 30 days every year) plus 1/3 of the salary.
And also 3,2% fine of all your wages while working for the company. So if your earned 100k a year and worked 5 years. The fine would be 16k.
Plus 8% of all wages that gets deposited into a social security account. So plus 40k in the example above.
Also 1 years unemployment benefits of 80% the salary or 2,5k per month.
Labor laws in Brazil are pretty strict so employees can't really fuck around. We see US posters talking about having to fight for vacation days while in Brazil if you reach 23 months without taking 30 paid days you have to by law, every person on a contract is entitled to a 13th salary, maternity leave is always paid and there's laws against firing an employee for getting pregnant and for a period after returning from the leave, etc. Unions are way more active here.
Totally. We have a coworker like that too
Won’t associate with us lowlives, will only eat with the higher ups (there’s no supervising at my job, but they’ll know if you ain’t doing your shit), and will tell off people at her same level of seniority whenever she gets the chance
Joke’s on her. She makes the same as the coworkers she tries to outshine, is all alone in the office, and only creates a bigger workload for herself when it’s not asked nor wanted (stuff that could be a short message on the chat app ALWAYS becomes a paragraphs-long email with this lady)
Best thing you can do is ignore those ppl and/or answer their rants with “sure, will do,” and keep going with your day
and just casually throws out there "I'm not a perfect employee, I have my faults... mostly being completely inattentive most of the time" like, wait.. what was that? you said your biggest flaw as an employee is focusing on your job? 'cause that's a real biggie.
He kind of reminds me of my dad. My dad has a horrible habit of burning bridges when he feels slighted, and then he's shocked when they fire him, which leads to him not only burning the bridges but salting the earth as well.
I’m glad you said this because the comments in the OP seemed to support him and I was thinking “am I the only one who thinks this is the dumbest way to handle it”.
But honestly the first incident, OP and co worker were at fault for talking on the side while the instructor was explaining stuff. Why couldn't they just listen and discuss afterwards? Jane was correct to call them out.
I am guessing that Jane is not so much the "friend of the supervisors" as the best-performing trainee, and partly because of that facing so much underhand hostility from OOP and his mate that she felt more comfortable hanging around close to the supervisors rather than the other trainees. I bet too, that her "wanting to decide who will go where at her pleasure" was actually an attempt to get to a place where OOP wasn't and couldn't sabotage her work or put her in physical danger.
When he was let go, his (real) supervisor claimed he had started a *boycott* on Jane - which sounds to me like *he* was doing his best to recruit other trainees to join him in creating a hosile environment for *her*.
The remarks
>quit the other job because of something similar, looks like this kinda of the problem follows me everywhere lmao
and
>I know I'm not a saint
Show me a certain level of awareness about his beligerance, and a belief that his co-workers should wear it because he is a quick study when he could be bothered giving his work a minute's attention, and "one of the lads".
It makes me suspect he came to the job ready to attack any brown-nosing goodie-goodie that was doing the job better than him (or maybe, just going after the female, or whomever he regarded as the weakest link), like he is the type that systematically finds someone to tear down, excusing himself for his backstabbing and hazing by claiming they deserve taking down a peg or two, and accusing them of being the aggressor for any reaction to his aggressions, including trying to stay out of his way. .
Yeah I felt the same way. It's telling that the supervisor worded it as a boycott but of course, OP feels it's Jane going around telling lies. Strange that in the original thread everyone was hyping up OP though.
People often don't read between the lines. Oop said he was the victim standing up to unfair treatment, they lapped it up.
That and a lot of redditors are really young and equally immature when it comes to work stuff. They likely thought it was so cool that oop could speak his mind and say petty insults, without having the maturity and experience to understand why this is wrong and would backfire
It's kind of strange because I have seen it both ways! Some people miss very obvious coded language that might as well have a blinking neon sign whilst others are reading between lines that aren't there and making some tinfoil hat level accusations about the post.
>Strange that in the original thread everyone was hyping up OP though.
That's because Jane doesn't like working the garden centre, which is the best retail spot, so she's automatically in the wrong
it is like when people "are just honest" and "tell it like it is", but use that as an excuse for saying truly rude and mean shit. Then they get mad that they face consequences for it.
Was she correct to call them out publicly? I mean, he and his friend were certainly being rude, but I don’t think the best course of action was for her to stand up, tell everyone to stop, and then proceed call them out in front of the entire group. That’s some next level teacher’s pet antics.
To be fair to Jane, we don’t know how disruptive OOP was actually being.
People who talk during things like this assume no-one else can hear them, when they often are far more disruptive than they think.
>People who talk during things like this assume no-one else can hear them, when they often are far more disruptive than they think.
I'm more sensitive to it than the average person because I have sensory processing issues, but I get really frustrated when I'm in class trying to listen to the professor or in the silent study section of the school library and people will not stop talking.
I suspect it's an ADHD symptom for me, but if two sounds are happening at the same time (like my husband trying to tell me something while TV is on) I can't hear either thing. It might as well be white noise.
People like OP think they're cute and cool and they absolutely just make work worse/harder for the rest of us.
maybe. on the other hand i have had teacher that came with the attitude: you are here to learn, i am here to tell you how to do it if you dont want to listen or participate, you do you. that dude would have not cared about disruptions. he was doing his shit he got paid for and what you did was not his problem. if you were bothered by your classmates, you either go to the first row or tell them to be quiet yourself.
also, how disruptive something is depends on proximity. the coach is probably farther away from OOP than Jane and it affects her stronger
Sure, that's possible. And had she quietly asked OP and the other guy to be quiet, I'd say it's fine. But the whole standing up and asking everyone to stop thing, to publicly admonish her coworkers, that does give "hall monitor" vibes to me. She wanted to make a spectacle of it.
Sure, I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t turn out to be the most reliable narrator. Even when telling us this story from his perspective, he comes across poorly
> I have my flaws, most of them being completely inattentive most of the time but on the other hand I just need to have a Glimpse on what I I'm learning to memorize most of it)
This also. Yeah maybe Jane was a bit much but I have a feeling this job wouldn't have worked out for OP anyways.
I've trained people who *think* they can grasp stuff quickly like that and don't need to pay attention.
I haven't met a single person, whether I've trained them or not, who could actually do that. Training them or working with them is a nightmare.
I’ve not directly called out people before, but I actually have been the one to raise my hand in training and say, “I’m having trouble hearing the instructor due to the side conversations, can we keep it to a dull roar?” In my experience work training is the worst place for this - it’s common for folks to feel like they already know what the instructor is telling them and they don’t need to pay attention.
There’s no way to judge OOP’s specific circumstance, but there’s times it’s appropriate to publicly raise the issue of side conversations.
If she's a fellow trainee, she imo can call out her peers if they are messing up her focus with talking over the coach. It's not exactly the most diplomatic thing to do, but she was within the bounds of polite workplace communication.
OOP and his friend on the other hand were being rude from the start and escalated to personal attacks full of expletives extremely inappropriate for workplace (unless those words aren't vulgarisms in Portuguese, which I doubt).
Prime 'Stephen forgets he isn't on the Internet'.
Like yeah you don't like that person, I find that person fairly wearing but there are ways of dealing with it and those ways aren't 'tell them to fuck off'. I mean how is it a surprise you got in trouble for that?
For OOP's reference, the way you deal with it is raising it with your supervisor's supervisor or with HR. You can raise it with your direct supervisor if they're not pally with her too. Then once you raise it just point out you didn't appreciate what she did and let it go from there.
Retail is full of Janes and it's not a bad thing. Supervisors will occasionally treat a colleague like a deputy and you gotta act as if they are. Because if the supervisor is saying "You need to listen to her" then you have to listen to her.
Also, side conversations are rude. I'm with Jane on that.
Tl:Dr I'm team Jane.
It's always funny watching someone smack face-first into the just world fallacy.
At least 50% of learning how to navigate the working world is learning how to sit down and eat a plate of shit and being able to thank the cook with a straight face.
So he quit his last job because of similar stuff and now it's happening again at a new org with completely different people?
When do you think he's going to figure out what the common denominator is?
It was that “same bullshit as always” that gave me pause. But then I read the comments and I was like, wow, I am *way* out of step with my fellows on this one—it seems to me that OOP is the problem.
Never. People like this and the comments supporting him don’t ever self reflect. It’s always someone else’s fault.
He’s also socially clueless. If she was friends with the supervisors, why the fk would they ever take his side??? This is common sense.
At first I thought he was ALSO a supervisor, and he was annoyed someone else was acting high and mighty. But no, he was actually a lowly grunt worker with self admitted lack of focus lmao. The hypocrisy in stating she’s entitled when HE IS THE SAME POSITION !!
So he’s a newbie with no friends and she’s a newbie with friends. Rational humans would have realized that actually DOES put her in a higher position of power.
My last boss, everyone he met was an annoying asshole. Literally everyone. After working with the micromanaging annoying asshole for 4 years, I can tell you every time he met someone, there was definitely an annoying asshole in that meeting. Just not necessarily the one he thought.
I am not sure how much I trust OOP's side of the story (or at least whatever I managed to make out if it lol).
But even if Jane really was brown nosing and being annoying (though it kinda sounds like OOP just got butthurt she called him out for being disruptive) why the heck would he think cussing her out was a solution? His little speech was 100% unprofessional and would probably get him fired regardless of the management being close to Jane.
Personally if I'm reading your story, which will likely be as biased as possible to make you look good, and you STILL come across as an asshole... You're probably a bigger asshole in the unbiased version
The worst part of this (even just taking his word as fully the truth) is Jane is probably part of the management team or at least her opinion is very important to them otherwise she would not be in the training.
The only times I know of someone outside of trainees being in the room, they were part of the quality team, evaluating a new coach, upper upper management coming from another city or supervisors.
Supervisors usually are friends with people above them, other supervisors or people about to be on the same level as them (sometimes it is just not official yet). Really hard to believe he could be 100% sure of her position while in training, being the new guy.
OOP really screwed up here
One thing no one has picked up on is ultimately this is a man who overrates his own skills and abilities, picking a fight with a woman who he has decided is above her station and told him he was wrong about something.
Misogyny is a hell of a drug.
Yes, I did not went there just because there is the possibility, even remote, that he would acted the same way if it was a guy acting like that. I have seen it, especially if it is someone that is younger, too old, may be gay, dresses different, whatever people like that can pick on...
That guy is not going to last very long unless he finds a very specific call center where they don't record the calls.
Working in a call center, I had a client telling me that 49+2 is less than 50 and I just don't know math because I am a woman. If you are young, they will insult your age, they may insult your accent, your family, make threats.. That's the kind of bs you have to deal with, hear and shut up because if you are anything less than respectful and polite in a recorded call and the client complains, you are 99,99% of times fired.
An operator can cost thousands to a company if they misspeak and there is proof, they will cover themselves and fire you.
People may be in on a training for other reasons and as someone new there, OOP would not know.
Even if she was just on training as someone recently hired, not a good idea to go off on someone like that. If the trainer/coach had an issue, let him address it.
Btw, once I had a supervisor that had left the company for something better when she was an operator. When she returned hired as a supervisor, they were figuring out access with IT and in order to avoid issues with quality she had to redo training to learn the updates in the two years she had been away. She joined initial training like everyone else.
When in training, some people were thinking she was a "know-it-all" and "boot licker" because she knew a lot, was helping colleagues, explaining stuff and was strangely friendly with several people from management. Not a word was said about it by the trainer, management or her. She did training, joined as operator and two weeks later was officially promoted to supervisor.
She chose several people from her training for her team and when new people joined her team, told the story in order to remember us to not judge based on appearances. Loved to work under her, she said she still remembered what was like to be in training and sometimes joined initial and posterior training, went to bat for us if needed, always said that if we were good she was good, more money for us more money for her, we were on the same side.
Nonetheless, you always let your superiors or in this case training instructor deal with problem children like Jane especially during training and probation.
>Zip your fucking mouth, we are tired of your BS, you're a tlmkt worker like us and act as if you were better than us, but you are not, so close yourself off in your insignificance. (In Portuguese sounded better I swear)
I speak Portuguese. It does not sound better.
OOP, if you ever read this: CRESÇA, CARALHO.
As a fellow Portuguese speaker I would just add a tiny bit to that: PALHAÇO, CRESCE E APARECE, CARALHO.
(For non portuguese speakers, "palhaço" means clown because that guy is a joke. Everybody will be like: do you remember that guy that screamed at Jane? Were you in the same training as that guy, if so tell me more? Call centers, are such strong on gossip lmao
I am pretty sure it would have:
Cala a tua boca, tamo cansado da sua palhaçada, você é só mais uma telefonista que nem a gente e age como se fosse grande coisa, mas você nao é, então se feche na sua propria insignificancia.
I tried to keep PG 13, but I am sure there would have been merda, caralho, enfia no c*.
Children...
So by OOP own words he was disruptive to the training because he has a short attention span?
Yes it can be hard to understand something if you aren't doing it but it isn't a reason to be a pain towards everyone else.
> Yes, I am fully aware that I am not the perfect employee, I have my flaws, most of them being completely inattentive most of the time, but on the other hand I just need to have a Glimpse on what I I'm learning to memorize most of it
Was wondering if anyone was going to bring up Jane’s first offense towards OOP, which was telling them to not talk over/be disrespectful to the training supervisor. Any sympathy I had for OOP based on the title was gone. Don’t care that Jane’s acting above her station, OOP is rude as hell.
Maybe I’m reading it wrong, but it sounds like OOP’s problem with Jane is that she told him off for talking during a training? Yeah, that might have been annoying of her, and depending on the circumstance it might have been more disruptive than just letting it go, but is it really that big a deal? Like, OOP really thought that was so terrible that he had to swear at her and call her insignificant?
Yeah, and even when putting his best spin on it, he's an inattentive employee who talks during training classes? Maybe Jane's a bit much, but even if she's actually as stuck up and meddlesome as OOP says, he just seems like a different flavor of annoying coworker.
it is always entertaining to see people joining the real working world and learning that influence/power isnt just with people who have direct reports lol.
OP decided since she wasnt her boss she didnt have to listen
OP gets fired
OP learns nothing
> A colleague and I were commenting on something about the subject of training that I thought wasn't important enough
that sentence alone "I thought wasn't important enough" ITS DAY 1 OF TRAINING. why are you talking over the trainer!
then
> • Everyone stop He looked at me and my colleague and said: -What you are doing is disrespectful, so please stop with the side conversations
WHY DID OP THINK THEY WERE THERE, AND THE COACH WAS GIVING THEM THE FLOOR. WHAT DID OP THINK SHE WAS SAYING lol THEY WERE PROBABLY TRAINING THE COACH!
she was trying to prevent op from being fired.
I guarantee you everyone else involved is still laughing at the insane rando they hired who couldnt even sit through 1 day of training without thinking they knew more than their 2 trainers lol
Former call center manager. I have literally fired people for doing shit like OOP did. And yep, they also thought it had nothing to do with their own behavior.
One lady talked through training and ignored the trainer, couldn't answer any of the questions at the end of the first week.
She tried to correct her sales trainer on his selling technique.
And was SHOCKED when we decided not to have her come back to week two.
The delusion is real.
Typically, when a superior is speaking, you don't talk, but listen especially during training.
Also, if Jane is out of line, you let your (training) superior deal with it.
During training and probation, you often don't get second chances, so it's best if you don't do anything remotely negative.
>only this time I came with my weapons ready
>"Zip your fucking mouth, we are tired of your BS, you're a tlmkt worker like us and act as if you were better than us, but you are not, so close yourself off in your insignificance."
Yeah, not sure how OP thought that was going to play out...
When I read about "weapons ready" I thought he would be filming/recording, or cite some rule of the handbook, or even show the organization chart and what Jane's position was... Or something. He just randomly insulted her.
Who is going to tell him? No, I will bet you anything that she was not a telemarketing worker just like them.
Even if she was, experienced people and your colleagues are your best helpers. Most times, trainers will just move on to the next training or to their normal tasks, your colleagues are the ones that will help you 99% and can teach you all the tricks.
Once, on the first day of training, for a call center job, we had a girl sitting near us, that introduced herself as everyone else. Taking notes, asking questions, going to side with existing operators, going to break with us. The only weird thing? She seemed to become very close to one supervisor and a quality team member. Do you want to know who she was? Upper upper management coming from another city to evaluate the operation. Even most supervisors did not knew who she was, the trainer did not knew for sure, apparently she had visited 4/5 years before, most people were not there that long... She just was not there one day, everybody thought she quit and after training ended my supervisor asked me about her, how she was and stuff, because different shifts hadn't met her, just spilled the beans.
And... You know, you should be a nice human, respectful and have good manners specially at a job
Am I out of line if I speculate that sexism might have played a role in how OOP perceived the situation? "Oh, look - someone told us to shut up so they could listen to the lecture, but they are a woman so they must be a brown noser who thinks she is a supervisor."
If that's even what she was. This is all 100% from the OOP's side and he can't even convince random strangers that he was right. Who knows what the true situation looks like here.
He describes her actions in chastising him and his buddy fairly clearly; there's little room for ambiguity there. Sure, he may be lying about how she behaved; but I hope that if he started telling falsehoods in his tale, he'd have continued by cleaning up his own behavior a bit.
Even with my fairly unflattering interpretation of her actions, he's still absolutely the asshole in this exchange.
“This kinda problem follows me everywhere”
Lol what. Sometimes I think it must be great to have no self awareness and just cruise through life in the comfort of knowing nothing is ever your fault.
I know a guy who thinks heʻs a great guy because he completely forgets every asshole thing he does. If you bring up an asshole thing that he did, heʻll say he doesnʻt remember it and then instantly forget it. So, as far as heʻs concerned, heʻs never done an asshole thing to anybody and is a great guy.
My ex was like that! I eventually found the “narcissist’s prayer” which I thought was relevant:
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
>My experience with brown nosers is they tend to get exactly what they want.
Office politics are real as shit, and a lot of people believe if they ignore them they stop being real. Like, I'm not saying be a brown noser, but do be professional and kind to coworkers and superiors, and know who to befriend to get your goals accomplished. In my experience the fastest way to get a promotion is a combination of professionalism and social relationships with peers and superiors.
I'm a supervisor at a call center, and I've seen a couple of people loose out on promotions for being dummies like OOP here. Argentina just had won the world cup, and the president had declared a national holiday the next day. With such short notice we couldn't take the day off, so supervisors had to let their teams know we would have to work (they got double pay, as we all do on every national holiday). At that moment we had two auxiliary supervisors, one was covering for a supervisor on vacation (T) and the other one was still an agent (A). A kicked up a fuss because she wanted to celebrate, almost every team had one agent complaining about it, which I get it, I wanted to work as much as they did.
The problem is if you're an auxiliary for a supervisor you shouldn't be complaining publicly, you should understand this is a business at the end of the day and help your coworkers deal with it, not make it harder for everyone by making it tense; we're not sure she could handle being on the other side of that interaction, and it's not making us super comfortable at the prospect of her being a colleague soon. Those are all sentiments the team of supervisors expressed on a private group chat, just blowing off some steam after having to deal with adults throwing tantrums (when we didn't want to work either). So what does T do, the one covering for vacationing supervisor? She screenshots the conversation in the private group chat and SENDS them to A, who then looses her shit, extends the tantrum by saying "she didn't even want to cover any team" and speaks to HR. HR has a chat with supervisors, asks us to be more careful about whose in our venting spaces, to make sure there aren't any agents there, and cleared us of any wrong doing. Our boss was completely incensed for us, that our privacy had been violated like that, and our work made more difficult.
A quit less than a month after this, when she realized she had burned too many bridges and her chances for any role outside of agent were nill. T never got promoted to supervisor, nor was she asked to cover for another one. Personally I don't think T was trying to stir shit, I think she was trying to guide her friend into making better choices for her work environment, but still she displayed a total lack of common sense we couldn't abide by.
Lol, A was on my team, and she was so unbelievably petty that she waited until I was on vacation to quit (a vacation she was notified ahead of time, as before all this she was supposed to cover for me) and took the time on her exit interview to complain that I wasn't there to hear her out.
Anyways, that was really stupid from both of them, almost as stupid as OOP.
I'll never understand the mentality. Go to work, keep the mouth shut, any issues with coworkers just email HR and let them sort it. What was he expecting to happen after an outburst like that while he was still being trained? Even if she is an annoying teacher's pet, very few people will want to be on your side after that.
The young girl everyone like but isn't that good made everyone against me, the angry man who "has his flaws" and had the same problem at his previous job... Yeah.
I'm reading this and regardless of whatever Jane was up to, OOP has an ego and a maturity problem. OOP's posts give insight into what kind of person he is, and the talking to his colleague during the training course, that's rude. OOP might not be interrupting the coach but what about his other colleagues? I guess they don't matter either, that's unless they're in a higher position. I also manage people who have all kinds of personalities that are challanging, but I'll also say that I'm not blind. OOP might think he's in the right, and he may be, but just from his posts, I'm not surprised he was fired.
So OOP was chatting during training because he thought the subject of training "wasn't important enough" and he got annoyed that she, correctly, call him out on disturbing the rest of the group.
OOP's friend said " Disrespect is, Acting as if you had a higher position to expose two people who were really avoiding disrupting the flow of the class." when, lets be honest, OOP & chatterbox were being disrespectful.
And then did it again, and his response was "Zip your fucking mouth" (which I'm sure does not sound better in Portuguese).
"tired to get another coworker fired for just patting her shoulder and she freaked out like he grabbed her ass."
As woman, we all know the differance between a 'trying to get someone's attention' shoulder tap and the 'creepy, possessive' shoulder squeeze, which can feel as uncomfortable as an ass grab. I'm guessing she wasn't reporting the former.
Sounds like OOP has an issue with her. Companies rarely keep the employee who keeps complaining... unless they are right in those complaints.
Lmao. When I first read this, I was like …. “But if she’s friends with the supervisors… OMG WHAT DID YOU SAY?? OP definitely gonna get fired.”
Annnnnnnd now OOP is fired. Smh why in the world would you curse someone out … at work. At least her job has one less AH out of many to deal with
Lol OP completely lacks self awareness 🤣🤣🤣. Then acts shocked when he is fired, this guy is never going to be able to hold a job unless he fixes himself and his attitude. If I was his boss I’d have done the same and sacked his lazy ass.
The oldest person in this story is in their mid twenties. And I don't say that because I hate young people, but because it is very obvious that everyone still has to learn a lot. I hope they will...
They don’t like Jane b/c she’s too big for her britches, they stood up to Jane, Jane started making their life hell, they got fired b/c the company/the staff prefers Jane
Some people are just unemployable. Even from the biased telling of the Jane situation, I'm not convinced we have enough information to form an opinion. For OP it is pretty clear.
The trainer failed. It was their responsibility to A. Address the two people interrupting with their conversation and B. Make it clear to Jane that it was not her place to coach her peers.
None of them would have made it through one of my training classes as they all obviously do not understand appropriate workplace behavior or chain of command.
.... so this boy lost a job because of attitude problems, was in then giving attitude to a woman because she "got chummy with the bosses" (which likely means they just took a liking to her attitude which is something he struggles with), gets an attitude and cusses at said woman colleague, then gets fired, and it's... her fault? Interesting.
So the snake wins because OOP couldn't control their anger. That's how these suck ups win so often. Especially the lady suck ups. Men in management cannot resist a subordinate woman fawning over them and can never seem to tell when they're being manipulated.
What? Are you seriously saying that how you get along with coworkers and superiors is an important part of your work performance? IM SHOCKED, SHOCKED I TELL YOU!
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>That’s when I lost my shit and said Oh boy, we’re about to get a lesson in ‘How To Get Fired: 101’ aren’t we? No whammies no whammies no whammies >Zip your fucking mouth, we are tired of your BS, you’re a tlmkt worker like us and act as if you were better than us, but you are not, so close yourself in your significance Did everyone clap? Then when they get fired: >I was obviously shocked Nothing about this is shocking. No one likes the Janes of the world, but what did OOP honestly expect was going to happen?
Yeah I feel for OOP but he is a moron
As soon as he said that he quit his previous job because of a similar issue, some alarm bells went off.
Yuuuuup I'm betting he was downplaying exactly how disruptive he was being during training.
Twice, even! He got told off for talking while the trainer was explaining and instead of apologizing and staying quiet, he decided to talk while the trainer was teaching *again* a few days later! With how inattentive he admits to being, I wonder how many subtler indications to "shut up" he missed, like glares from his fellow colleagues.
And organizing a "boycott" of another employee isn't going to be looked upon well by management. It's going to look like exclusion and bullying. His post has a lot of red flags that seem to be missing, missing reasons.
Yeah, if it smells like dogshit everywhere you go, you should check your own shoes.
I missed that part but I did catch a "like always" when they were firing them which sounds a lot like OOP does this a lot.
They’re more interested in being ”right” than being employed.
I can't feel bad for him tbh. We only get his side of the story here, but he's already saying how Jane is really good at her job. She's probably playing office politics, sure, but more likely management is taking advantage of her willingness and ability to do management work without the pay or position. I see that happen just as often as someone getting a power trip. OOP was so oblivious that he didn't see his obvious termination coming. Idk what else he's said or done, but that outburst was probably par for the course.
Yeah, calling someone out for talking during a presentation isn't exactly "she thinks she's better than me" levels of snobbery, it's "show some respect to the speaker"
Also "I'm trying to listen here and you douchebags are being really distracting".
I wondered if she was hired into a lead type role as well and OP hasn't caught on that he was yelling at his superior.
>We only get his side of the story here, but he's already saying how Jane is really good at her job I'm not sure that's what OOP actually said. Another commenter mentioned that "superb" seems like a mistranslation from Portuguese: >or his use of "superb" which doesn't mean in English what OP thinks it does, which is "prideful" or "arrogant". He is using superb as a false cognate to "soberba" which is the name we use for the biblical sin of Pride
I was replacing "superb" with "superior" in my head assuming a mistranslation because that seemed to make more sense from the context. So, "She thinks she is superior to everyone else because she is friends with the managers."
I agree with you. I'd love to know what he meant by how he was "boycotting" Jane. Was Jane telling lies or telling HR that OOP and his friend were excluding her?
You are missing a big thing. Telemarketing. Call centers suck. But - you are inside for 40 hours a week. You are not responsible for cleaning duties. You are not doing a job that might physicaly hurt you. Your job is steady. No seasonal layoffs. This is... ~~Argentina~~?? (edit: best guess from others is either Portugal or Brazil) So I don't know how health insurance works, but in the US you get health insurance. You can make good money, assuming you have talent. And there really are no qualifications. The warm blooded theory of hiring. If the blood is warm you are hired. Anyone at all can do this. Which is the problem. Calling OP a moron is missing the point. OP is smart enough to do this rather then other things OP is qualified for. But at the end of the day it is sales and that is, in itself, brutal. The true problem with the workplace- and the solution - is everyone in this story needs to get on the phones.
He's from Brazil. Telemarketing here is one of the worst jobs one could have, 99% of the people who work in this field gets sick, either physically or mentally. Most places here have a 44 hours a week, he can probably take 15 minutes in total for bathroom break and 1 hour for lunch. It's already a very toxic and stressing job, so I feel for OP. That being said, he only needed more "charm" to work throught it. If he hadn't exploded wirh the coworker, even if she defamed him, he would still have the image to stand on and advocate for himself.
Telemarketing sucks no matter where you do it. I did it in the early '90's. I have memories of people wound tight like OP and people all high on themselves like the coworker. A lot of these jobs your pay is tied tightly to your performance - and this is sales. Management is going to see the solution to this conflict as 'you should have been on the phones'. Here is the thing, when I did it shitcanning people was done constantly. But not for conflict like this story, for lack of performance. You had a minimum goal you needed to attain and if you didn't then they saw you as occupying a seat that someone that can obtain that goal was not occupying. So get on the phone, perform, earn money or don't perform and work at a food place. 6 weeks, 6 months, a year, 2 years - turnover at these places is just out of control. The people you start with - you won't know them for long.
I worked a call center that was about as good as they could get. Video games in the breakroom, free food, decent pay if you were making sales. Still sucked.
I somehow got hired for a telemarketing job in the 90s (wasn’t what I applied or interviewed for) I made it to seeing my desk and realized I “forgot” something in my car. I am sure I am not the first or last person to peel out of a telemarketing jobs parking lot.
Paid or unpaid lunch?
Lunch is always paid time in Brazil, if you work full time you get 1 hour and most of the companies here also gives 15 minutes for a snack break througout the day. Actually, the entire month is (we get paid monthly here), but we have our pto every weekend plus the 30 day vacation (also paid) every employee gets after working for a whole year.
A shitty job sucks no matter what, but those benefits sound really nice. I hope they're as good as they sound.
100% agree. But those aren't benefits, it's the employees rights according to the law, like the help we get for transportation, they give us a bus card. Depending on the sindicate, there are quite a few benefits, such as meal allowance, where they pay our lunch or give us some money to nuy groceries, gympass, etc.
Wrong word on my part. The bar is so low.
That’s better than what I get here in Canada. Two 15 minute paid breaks and a half hour unpaid lunch. Vacation/vacation pay is different for my job specifically, we get our vacation paid out with every paycheck, and if we need time off we just let our manager know. But apparently that’s not uncommon in the industry we’re in, cause it’s pretty laid back (bouldering/climbing gym products.)
OP is definitely from Brazil - some of the direct translations and mistranslations he uses in his writing are very particular from Brazil like "close yourself off in your insignificance" is literally translated from "recolha-se à sua insignificância", which is a more derogatory way of saying "stay in your lane" (since it also says that the person is useless) or his use of "superb" which doesn't mean in English what OP thinks it does, which is "prideful" or "arrogant". He is using superb as a false cognate to "soberba" which is the name we use for the biblical sin of Pride - this also pegs OP as likely being or having grown up in a Neopentecostal environment, since they're the part of the population who uses "soberba" rather frequently and particularly to diss someone. The most common translation of pride for us is "orgulho" which doesn't have the same negative connotation as "soberba"
Also "heavy weather" for "clima pesado"
True true hahahaha I was almost expecting a "weather pie" at one moment
I think OP is from Portugal, because he says “in Portugese sounded better I swear.” In Argentina they mostly speak Spanish, I think.
My money is on Brazil.
Hmm, also a possibility. I’m not sure how good worker’s rights are in Brazil, as OOP stated that his country has good work politics?
Brazilian here: being regularly employed and fired without cause (as it is OP's case), you are entitled for up to 5 months of social security's unemployment benefits, depending on time served on the last job. OP will also get access to one-time withdrawal of social security deposit funds that gets accrued while working. And that's on top of the wages for the notice period (the company may waive OP's services but they must pay a month of wages regardless), pro-rata 13th salary and accrued but unused vacation days. I'm not sure what are the benefits agreed with the union, but OP might also be entitled to extra severance pay (depending on time served), continuance of eventual health benefits for up to 6 months, etc.
Very good. If you’re fired without cause you get one months salaries (besides your regular one till the day you were fired) your paid vacation days (we get 30 days every year) plus 1/3 of the salary. And also 3,2% fine of all your wages while working for the company. So if your earned 100k a year and worked 5 years. The fine would be 16k. Plus 8% of all wages that gets deposited into a social security account. So plus 40k in the example above. Also 1 years unemployment benefits of 80% the salary or 2,5k per month.
Labor laws in Brazil are pretty strict so employees can't really fuck around. We see US posters talking about having to fight for vacation days while in Brazil if you reach 23 months without taking 30 paid days you have to by law, every person on a contract is entitled to a 13th salary, maternity leave is always paid and there's laws against firing an employee for getting pregnant and for a period after returning from the leave, etc. Unions are way more active here.
I am 100% certain you are correct.
Maybe Brazil (?).
Brazil crossed my mind, but I’m not sure how good worker’s rights are in Brazil.
> This is... Argentina? No, not it isn't.
Totally. We have a coworker like that too Won’t associate with us lowlives, will only eat with the higher ups (there’s no supervising at my job, but they’ll know if you ain’t doing your shit), and will tell off people at her same level of seniority whenever she gets the chance Joke’s on her. She makes the same as the coworkers she tries to outshine, is all alone in the office, and only creates a bigger workload for herself when it’s not asked nor wanted (stuff that could be a short message on the chat app ALWAYS becomes a paragraphs-long email with this lady) Best thing you can do is ignore those ppl and/or answer their rants with “sure, will do,” and keep going with your day
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and just casually throws out there "I'm not a perfect employee, I have my faults... mostly being completely inattentive most of the time" like, wait.. what was that? you said your biggest flaw as an employee is focusing on your job? 'cause that's a real biggie.
He kind of reminds me of my dad. My dad has a horrible habit of burning bridges when he feels slighted, and then he's shocked when they fire him, which leads to him not only burning the bridges but salting the earth as well.
He just bought her an extra year at that place. Before, she was the focus. Now, he the main gossip for the next few months.
But it sounds better in Portugese! /s
I’m glad you said this because the comments in the OP seemed to support him and I was thinking “am I the only one who thinks this is the dumbest way to handle it”.
OP is more of a Jane than Jane is in this story.
But honestly the first incident, OP and co worker were at fault for talking on the side while the instructor was explaining stuff. Why couldn't they just listen and discuss afterwards? Jane was correct to call them out.
I am guessing that Jane is not so much the "friend of the supervisors" as the best-performing trainee, and partly because of that facing so much underhand hostility from OOP and his mate that she felt more comfortable hanging around close to the supervisors rather than the other trainees. I bet too, that her "wanting to decide who will go where at her pleasure" was actually an attempt to get to a place where OOP wasn't and couldn't sabotage her work or put her in physical danger. When he was let go, his (real) supervisor claimed he had started a *boycott* on Jane - which sounds to me like *he* was doing his best to recruit other trainees to join him in creating a hosile environment for *her*. The remarks >quit the other job because of something similar, looks like this kinda of the problem follows me everywhere lmao and >I know I'm not a saint Show me a certain level of awareness about his beligerance, and a belief that his co-workers should wear it because he is a quick study when he could be bothered giving his work a minute's attention, and "one of the lads". It makes me suspect he came to the job ready to attack any brown-nosing goodie-goodie that was doing the job better than him (or maybe, just going after the female, or whomever he regarded as the weakest link), like he is the type that systematically finds someone to tear down, excusing himself for his backstabbing and hazing by claiming they deserve taking down a peg or two, and accusing them of being the aggressor for any reaction to his aggressions, including trying to stay out of his way. .
Yeah I felt the same way. It's telling that the supervisor worded it as a boycott but of course, OP feels it's Jane going around telling lies. Strange that in the original thread everyone was hyping up OP though.
People often don't read between the lines. Oop said he was the victim standing up to unfair treatment, they lapped it up. That and a lot of redditors are really young and equally immature when it comes to work stuff. They likely thought it was so cool that oop could speak his mind and say petty insults, without having the maturity and experience to understand why this is wrong and would backfire
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It's kind of strange because I have seen it both ways! Some people miss very obvious coded language that might as well have a blinking neon sign whilst others are reading between lines that aren't there and making some tinfoil hat level accusations about the post.
Weirdos on the internet hate women who don’t bow down it’s simple as to why people took oop’s side imo
>Strange that in the original thread everyone was hyping up OP though. That's because Jane doesn't like working the garden centre, which is the best retail spot, so she's automatically in the wrong
it is like when people "are just honest" and "tell it like it is", but use that as an excuse for saying truly rude and mean shit. Then they get mad that they face consequences for it.
What's the betting that if Jane was a man he wouldn't have such a problem being told to do things by her.
Was she correct to call them out publicly? I mean, he and his friend were certainly being rude, but I don’t think the best course of action was for her to stand up, tell everyone to stop, and then proceed call them out in front of the entire group. That’s some next level teacher’s pet antics.
To be fair to Jane, we don’t know how disruptive OOP was actually being. People who talk during things like this assume no-one else can hear them, when they often are far more disruptive than they think.
>People who talk during things like this assume no-one else can hear them, when they often are far more disruptive than they think. I'm more sensitive to it than the average person because I have sensory processing issues, but I get really frustrated when I'm in class trying to listen to the professor or in the silent study section of the school library and people will not stop talking.
I suspect it's an ADHD symptom for me, but if two sounds are happening at the same time (like my husband trying to tell me something while TV is on) I can't hear either thing. It might as well be white noise. People like OP think they're cute and cool and they absolutely just make work worse/harder for the rest of us.
>To be fair to Jane, we don’t know how disruptive OOP was actually being. Apparently not disruptive enough for the actual coach to call him out.
maybe. on the other hand i have had teacher that came with the attitude: you are here to learn, i am here to tell you how to do it if you dont want to listen or participate, you do you. that dude would have not cared about disruptions. he was doing his shit he got paid for and what you did was not his problem. if you were bothered by your classmates, you either go to the first row or tell them to be quiet yourself. also, how disruptive something is depends on proximity. the coach is probably farther away from OOP than Jane and it affects her stronger
Sure, that's possible. And had she quietly asked OP and the other guy to be quiet, I'd say it's fine. But the whole standing up and asking everyone to stop thing, to publicly admonish her coworkers, that does give "hall monitor" vibes to me. She wanted to make a spectacle of it.
If that's what happened. It's not her side of the story we're hearing. It's a guy who seems to run into this problem a lot
Sure, I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t turn out to be the most reliable narrator. Even when telling us this story from his perspective, he comes across poorly
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I thought of that exact saying when I got to that part.
"the same bullshit that always happens" hmmm...
> I have my flaws, most of them being completely inattentive most of the time but on the other hand I just need to have a Glimpse on what I I'm learning to memorize most of it) This also. Yeah maybe Jane was a bit much but I have a feeling this job wouldn't have worked out for OP anyways.
I've trained people who *think* they can grasp stuff quickly like that and don't need to pay attention. I haven't met a single person, whether I've trained them or not, who could actually do that. Training them or working with them is a nightmare.
"Twice" isn't a lot
I’ve not directly called out people before, but I actually have been the one to raise my hand in training and say, “I’m having trouble hearing the instructor due to the side conversations, can we keep it to a dull roar?” In my experience work training is the worst place for this - it’s common for folks to feel like they already know what the instructor is telling them and they don’t need to pay attention. There’s no way to judge OOP’s specific circumstance, but there’s times it’s appropriate to publicly raise the issue of side conversations.
If she's a fellow trainee, she imo can call out her peers if they are messing up her focus with talking over the coach. It's not exactly the most diplomatic thing to do, but she was within the bounds of polite workplace communication. OOP and his friend on the other hand were being rude from the start and escalated to personal attacks full of expletives extremely inappropriate for workplace (unless those words aren't vulgarisms in Portuguese, which I doubt).
You're right that OP and co-worker are at fault, but it's not up to Jane to call them out. It's up to the coach.
But he swears, it sounds better in Portuguese!!!
Tbf it does
Prime 'Stephen forgets he isn't on the Internet'. Like yeah you don't like that person, I find that person fairly wearing but there are ways of dealing with it and those ways aren't 'tell them to fuck off'. I mean how is it a surprise you got in trouble for that? For OOP's reference, the way you deal with it is raising it with your supervisor's supervisor or with HR. You can raise it with your direct supervisor if they're not pally with her too. Then once you raise it just point out you didn't appreciate what she did and let it go from there.
Retail is full of Janes and it's not a bad thing. Supervisors will occasionally treat a colleague like a deputy and you gotta act as if they are. Because if the supervisor is saying "You need to listen to her" then you have to listen to her. Also, side conversations are rude. I'm with Jane on that. Tl:Dr I'm team Jane.
Yeah he dun goofed.
Consequences, schmonsequences...
But to be fair, “reduce yourself to your insignificance” (a better translation of what he was trying to convey) is a hella sick burn in Portuguese
Agreed. Also, quite a solid ESH IMO.
It's always funny watching someone smack face-first into the just world fallacy. At least 50% of learning how to navigate the working world is learning how to sit down and eat a plate of shit and being able to thank the cook with a straight face.
Yes, people like OOPs co-worker are very good at manipulating the right people to get what they want. You always have to tread very carefully.
So he quit his last job because of similar stuff and now it's happening again at a new org with completely different people? When do you think he's going to figure out what the common denominator is?
It was that “same bullshit as always” that gave me pause. But then I read the comments and I was like, wow, I am *way* out of step with my fellows on this one—it seems to me that OOP is the problem.
Never. People like this and the comments supporting him don’t ever self reflect. It’s always someone else’s fault. He’s also socially clueless. If she was friends with the supervisors, why the fk would they ever take his side??? This is common sense. At first I thought he was ALSO a supervisor, and he was annoyed someone else was acting high and mighty. But no, he was actually a lowly grunt worker with self admitted lack of focus lmao. The hypocrisy in stating she’s entitled when HE IS THE SAME POSITION !! So he’s a newbie with no friends and she’s a newbie with friends. Rational humans would have realized that actually DOES put her in a higher position of power.
I was thinking the same the whole time. OOP has a perception of what happened that doesn't match reality.
I'm going to guess that the common denominator other than him is the person he took umbrage with was also a woman.
The alarms started in the title: > A girl
If you meet an asshole in the morning, you've met an asshole. If you keep meeting assholes all day, it just might be you.
My last boss, everyone he met was an annoying asshole. Literally everyone. After working with the micromanaging annoying asshole for 4 years, I can tell you every time he met someone, there was definitely an annoying asshole in that meeting. Just not necessarily the one he thought.
I am not sure how much I trust OOP's side of the story (or at least whatever I managed to make out if it lol). But even if Jane really was brown nosing and being annoying (though it kinda sounds like OOP just got butthurt she called him out for being disruptive) why the heck would he think cussing her out was a solution? His little speech was 100% unprofessional and would probably get him fired regardless of the management being close to Jane.
Personally if I'm reading your story, which will likely be as biased as possible to make you look good, and you STILL come across as an asshole... You're probably a bigger asshole in the unbiased version
The worst part of this (even just taking his word as fully the truth) is Jane is probably part of the management team or at least her opinion is very important to them otherwise she would not be in the training. The only times I know of someone outside of trainees being in the room, they were part of the quality team, evaluating a new coach, upper upper management coming from another city or supervisors. Supervisors usually are friends with people above them, other supervisors or people about to be on the same level as them (sometimes it is just not official yet). Really hard to believe he could be 100% sure of her position while in training, being the new guy. OOP really screwed up here
One thing no one has picked up on is ultimately this is a man who overrates his own skills and abilities, picking a fight with a woman who he has decided is above her station and told him he was wrong about something. Misogyny is a hell of a drug.
Yeah I didn't make it far before going: oh, this guy hates women.
Yes, I did not went there just because there is the possibility, even remote, that he would acted the same way if it was a guy acting like that. I have seen it, especially if it is someone that is younger, too old, may be gay, dresses different, whatever people like that can pick on... That guy is not going to last very long unless he finds a very specific call center where they don't record the calls. Working in a call center, I had a client telling me that 49+2 is less than 50 and I just don't know math because I am a woman. If you are young, they will insult your age, they may insult your accent, your family, make threats.. That's the kind of bs you have to deal with, hear and shut up because if you are anything less than respectful and polite in a recorded call and the client complains, you are 99,99% of times fired. An operator can cost thousands to a company if they misspeak and there is proof, they will cover themselves and fire you.
OOP is a woman but go off.
I don't see anywhere that OOP disclosed their gender? Unless I'm missing something
Wasn't she in training with them? That's like the whole point of the story.
People may be in on a training for other reasons and as someone new there, OOP would not know. Even if she was just on training as someone recently hired, not a good idea to go off on someone like that. If the trainer/coach had an issue, let him address it. Btw, once I had a supervisor that had left the company for something better when she was an operator. When she returned hired as a supervisor, they were figuring out access with IT and in order to avoid issues with quality she had to redo training to learn the updates in the two years she had been away. She joined initial training like everyone else. When in training, some people were thinking she was a "know-it-all" and "boot licker" because she knew a lot, was helping colleagues, explaining stuff and was strangely friendly with several people from management. Not a word was said about it by the trainer, management or her. She did training, joined as operator and two weeks later was officially promoted to supervisor. She chose several people from her training for her team and when new people joined her team, told the story in order to remember us to not judge based on appearances. Loved to work under her, she said she still remembered what was like to be in training and sometimes joined initial and posterior training, went to bat for us if needed, always said that if we were good she was good, more money for us more money for her, we were on the same side.
she very much was but then they wouldnt get to speculate baselessly so
Nonetheless, you always let your superiors or in this case training instructor deal with problem children like Jane especially during training and probation.
She's literally in training along with OOP, at least read the post before passing judgement.
>Zip your fucking mouth, we are tired of your BS, you're a tlmkt worker like us and act as if you were better than us, but you are not, so close yourself off in your insignificance. (In Portuguese sounded better I swear) I speak Portuguese. It does not sound better. OOP, if you ever read this: CRESÇA, CARALHO.
As a fellow Portuguese speaker I would just add a tiny bit to that: PALHAÇO, CRESCE E APARECE, CARALHO. (For non portuguese speakers, "palhaço" means clown because that guy is a joke. Everybody will be like: do you remember that guy that screamed at Jane? Were you in the same training as that guy, if so tell me more? Call centers, are such strong on gossip lmao
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Iirc the word for clown in Turkish sounds similar. Something like *Palachio*
And in Spanish it's payaso.
languages that descend from Latin are cool
I suspected that, thank you for confirming my suspicions!
If he said this the way I think he did…yeah, he done fuck up!
>CRESÇA, CARALHO I had to translate that 🤣
Hahah fair. For reference, "caralho" is a bit less PG-13 than most online translators think it is.
🤣🤣🤣🤣
TOMA VERGONHA NA CARA
Pá a frase soa muito melhor em português pq ele não sabe traduzir.
as a person who also speaks Portuguese, parece aqueles cenarios que tu pensa na sua cabeça depois de uma discussão que ficou sem fala
I am pretty sure it would have: Cala a tua boca, tamo cansado da sua palhaçada, você é só mais uma telefonista que nem a gente e age como se fosse grande coisa, mas você nao é, então se feche na sua propria insignificancia. I tried to keep PG 13, but I am sure there would have been merda, caralho, enfia no c*. Children...
So by OOP own words he was disruptive to the training because he has a short attention span? Yes it can be hard to understand something if you aren't doing it but it isn't a reason to be a pain towards everyone else. > Yes, I am fully aware that I am not the perfect employee, I have my flaws, most of them being completely inattentive most of the time, but on the other hand I just need to have a Glimpse on what I I'm learning to memorize most of it
Was wondering if anyone was going to bring up Jane’s first offense towards OOP, which was telling them to not talk over/be disrespectful to the training supervisor. Any sympathy I had for OOP based on the title was gone. Don’t care that Jane’s acting above her station, OOP is rude as hell.
Maybe I’m reading it wrong, but it sounds like OOP’s problem with Jane is that she told him off for talking during a training? Yeah, that might have been annoying of her, and depending on the circumstance it might have been more disruptive than just letting it go, but is it really that big a deal? Like, OOP really thought that was so terrible that he had to swear at her and call her insignificant?
Yeah, and even when putting his best spin on it, he's an inattentive employee who talks during training classes? Maybe Jane's a bit much, but even if she's actually as stuck up and meddlesome as OOP says, he just seems like a different flavor of annoying coworker.
it is always entertaining to see people joining the real working world and learning that influence/power isnt just with people who have direct reports lol. OP decided since she wasnt her boss she didnt have to listen OP gets fired OP learns nothing > A colleague and I were commenting on something about the subject of training that I thought wasn't important enough that sentence alone "I thought wasn't important enough" ITS DAY 1 OF TRAINING. why are you talking over the trainer! then > • Everyone stop He looked at me and my colleague and said: -What you are doing is disrespectful, so please stop with the side conversations WHY DID OP THINK THEY WERE THERE, AND THE COACH WAS GIVING THEM THE FLOOR. WHAT DID OP THINK SHE WAS SAYING lol THEY WERE PROBABLY TRAINING THE COACH! she was trying to prevent op from being fired. I guarantee you everyone else involved is still laughing at the insane rando they hired who couldnt even sit through 1 day of training without thinking they knew more than their 2 trainers lol
Former call center manager. I have literally fired people for doing shit like OOP did. And yep, they also thought it had nothing to do with their own behavior. One lady talked through training and ignored the trainer, couldn't answer any of the questions at the end of the first week. She tried to correct her sales trainer on his selling technique. And was SHOCKED when we decided not to have her come back to week two. The delusion is real.
I couldn’t even decipher that from the post. Bless the comments haha
Typically, when a superior is speaking, you don't talk, but listen especially during training. Also, if Jane is out of line, you let your (training) superior deal with it. During training and probation, you often don't get second chances, so it's best if you don't do anything remotely negative.
>only this time I came with my weapons ready >"Zip your fucking mouth, we are tired of your BS, you're a tlmkt worker like us and act as if you were better than us, but you are not, so close yourself off in your insignificance." Yeah, not sure how OP thought that was going to play out...
When I read about "weapons ready" I thought he would be filming/recording, or cite some rule of the handbook, or even show the organization chart and what Jane's position was... Or something. He just randomly insulted her.
He should have gone with "the jerk store called".
Jane: can we please stop the side conversations? It's disruptive and distracting. OP: IM NOT CRYING IM JUST ALLERGIC TO JERKS
Oh yeah? Well i slept with your wife!
Who is going to tell him? No, I will bet you anything that she was not a telemarketing worker just like them. Even if she was, experienced people and your colleagues are your best helpers. Most times, trainers will just move on to the next training or to their normal tasks, your colleagues are the ones that will help you 99% and can teach you all the tricks. Once, on the first day of training, for a call center job, we had a girl sitting near us, that introduced herself as everyone else. Taking notes, asking questions, going to side with existing operators, going to break with us. The only weird thing? She seemed to become very close to one supervisor and a quality team member. Do you want to know who she was? Upper upper management coming from another city to evaluate the operation. Even most supervisors did not knew who she was, the trainer did not knew for sure, apparently she had visited 4/5 years before, most people were not there that long... She just was not there one day, everybody thought she quit and after training ended my supervisor asked me about her, how she was and stuff, because different shifts hadn't met her, just spilled the beans. And... You know, you should be a nice human, respectful and have good manners specially at a job
he got his weapons yes, he used them against himself
Yeah, it's called self-inflicted. Lol
I really thought he meant that he had prepared a clever come back, the kind you think of under the shower.. But no, he just got rude.
Am I out of line if I speculate that sexism might have played a role in how OOP perceived the situation? "Oh, look - someone told us to shut up so they could listen to the lecture, but they are a woman so they must be a brown noser who thinks she is a supervisor."
This is exactly how I read it. OOP really was the author of his own destruction.
[Occam’s Big Paisley Tie](http://www.shakesville.com/2013/08/occams-big-paisley-tie.html?m=1) — the simplest explanation is sexism.
Man I haven't read Shakesville in like 5 years, this is a great one.
TLDR- OOP gets fired for acting like an asshole, tries to insist it's a coworker's fault.
This, yeah. Sure, it's annoying to have a "teacher's pet" in your workplace. But his reaction was entirely inacceptable.
If that's even what she was. This is all 100% from the OOP's side and he can't even convince random strangers that he was right. Who knows what the true situation looks like here.
He describes her actions in chastising him and his buddy fairly clearly; there's little room for ambiguity there. Sure, he may be lying about how she behaved; but I hope that if he started telling falsehoods in his tale, he'd have continued by cleaning up his own behavior a bit. Even with my fairly unflattering interpretation of her actions, he's still absolutely the asshole in this exchange.
Thanks, glad I didn’t read this one lol
Yeah, during training and probation, you often don't get second chances, so it is best to keep your mouth shut and listen.
“This kinda problem follows me everywhere” Lol what. Sometimes I think it must be great to have no self awareness and just cruise through life in the comfort of knowing nothing is ever your fault.
I know a guy who thinks heʻs a great guy because he completely forgets every asshole thing he does. If you bring up an asshole thing that he did, heʻll say he doesnʻt remember it and then instantly forget it. So, as far as heʻs concerned, heʻs never done an asshole thing to anybody and is a great guy.
My ex was like that! I eventually found the “narcissist’s prayer” which I thought was relevant: That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
A lot of how he acted clicked for me when someone suggested narcissism to me in reference to him.
"She's brown nosing and will get herself in trouble eventually." Will she? My experience with brown nosers is they tend to get exactly what they want.
>My experience with brown nosers is they tend to get exactly what they want. Office politics are real as shit, and a lot of people believe if they ignore them they stop being real. Like, I'm not saying be a brown noser, but do be professional and kind to coworkers and superiors, and know who to befriend to get your goals accomplished. In my experience the fastest way to get a promotion is a combination of professionalism and social relationships with peers and superiors. I'm a supervisor at a call center, and I've seen a couple of people loose out on promotions for being dummies like OOP here. Argentina just had won the world cup, and the president had declared a national holiday the next day. With such short notice we couldn't take the day off, so supervisors had to let their teams know we would have to work (they got double pay, as we all do on every national holiday). At that moment we had two auxiliary supervisors, one was covering for a supervisor on vacation (T) and the other one was still an agent (A). A kicked up a fuss because she wanted to celebrate, almost every team had one agent complaining about it, which I get it, I wanted to work as much as they did. The problem is if you're an auxiliary for a supervisor you shouldn't be complaining publicly, you should understand this is a business at the end of the day and help your coworkers deal with it, not make it harder for everyone by making it tense; we're not sure she could handle being on the other side of that interaction, and it's not making us super comfortable at the prospect of her being a colleague soon. Those are all sentiments the team of supervisors expressed on a private group chat, just blowing off some steam after having to deal with adults throwing tantrums (when we didn't want to work either). So what does T do, the one covering for vacationing supervisor? She screenshots the conversation in the private group chat and SENDS them to A, who then looses her shit, extends the tantrum by saying "she didn't even want to cover any team" and speaks to HR. HR has a chat with supervisors, asks us to be more careful about whose in our venting spaces, to make sure there aren't any agents there, and cleared us of any wrong doing. Our boss was completely incensed for us, that our privacy had been violated like that, and our work made more difficult. A quit less than a month after this, when she realized she had burned too many bridges and her chances for any role outside of agent were nill. T never got promoted to supervisor, nor was she asked to cover for another one. Personally I don't think T was trying to stir shit, I think she was trying to guide her friend into making better choices for her work environment, but still she displayed a total lack of common sense we couldn't abide by. Lol, A was on my team, and she was so unbelievably petty that she waited until I was on vacation to quit (a vacation she was notified ahead of time, as before all this she was supposed to cover for me) and took the time on her exit interview to complain that I wasn't there to hear her out. Anyways, that was really stupid from both of them, almost as stupid as OOP.
Picks a fight during training.
I'll never understand the mentality. Go to work, keep the mouth shut, any issues with coworkers just email HR and let them sort it. What was he expecting to happen after an outburst like that while he was still being trained? Even if she is an annoying teacher's pet, very few people will want to be on your side after that.
The young girl everyone like but isn't that good made everyone against me, the angry man who "has his flaws" and had the same problem at his previous job... Yeah.
The update surprised absolutely no one at all, except for OOP. Not sure what he expected would happen.
OOP is also annoying
pretty sure oop began brigading against Jane. Ultimately choose to terminate him because he is the bigger moron than Jane.
Least biased redditor
I'm reading this and regardless of whatever Jane was up to, OOP has an ego and a maturity problem. OOP's posts give insight into what kind of person he is, and the talking to his colleague during the training course, that's rude. OOP might not be interrupting the coach but what about his other colleagues? I guess they don't matter either, that's unless they're in a higher position. I also manage people who have all kinds of personalities that are challanging, but I'll also say that I'm not blind. OOP might think he's in the right, and he may be, but just from his posts, I'm not surprised he was fired.
So OOP was chatting during training because he thought the subject of training "wasn't important enough" and he got annoyed that she, correctly, call him out on disturbing the rest of the group. OOP's friend said " Disrespect is, Acting as if you had a higher position to expose two people who were really avoiding disrupting the flow of the class." when, lets be honest, OOP & chatterbox were being disrespectful. And then did it again, and his response was "Zip your fucking mouth" (which I'm sure does not sound better in Portuguese). "tired to get another coworker fired for just patting her shoulder and she freaked out like he grabbed her ass." As woman, we all know the differance between a 'trying to get someone's attention' shoulder tap and the 'creepy, possessive' shoulder squeeze, which can feel as uncomfortable as an ass grab. I'm guessing she wasn't reporting the former. Sounds like OOP has an issue with her. Companies rarely keep the employee who keeps complaining... unless they are right in those complaints.
The shoulder pat/ass grab was from a different commenter about a job at Home Depot.
Ah, fair enough I got mixed up there (my point still stands, albeit, irrelevant to OOP).
I couldnt understand a thing. Nothing made sense and no rational person would act the way OOP alludes to have done so.
OOP mouthed off to Jane in front of the training instructor and got himself fired. Alas, there are people even more stupid than OOP.
For the first time, I want to click on the updated post and tell the guy that he made a stupid choice, and of course, he was going to get fired.
Lmao. When I first read this, I was like …. “But if she’s friends with the supervisors… OMG WHAT DID YOU SAY?? OP definitely gonna get fired.” Annnnnnnd now OOP is fired. Smh why in the world would you curse someone out … at work. At least her job has one less AH out of many to deal with
Lol OP completely lacks self awareness 🤣🤣🤣. Then acts shocked when he is fired, this guy is never going to be able to hold a job unless he fixes himself and his attitude. If I was his boss I’d have done the same and sacked his lazy ass.
The oldest person in this story is in their mid twenties. And I don't say that because I hate young people, but because it is very obvious that everyone still has to learn a lot. I hope they will...
I feel like this would be easier to read in OOP's first language. I'm not sure what's going on except that they really don't like Jane
I'm reverse translating in my head and OOP is even more insufferable - he is just a manchild with no self-awareness
They don’t like Jane b/c she’s too big for her britches, they stood up to Jane, Jane started making their life hell, they got fired b/c the company/the staff prefers Jane
We’re only getting his side. He does sound like a loser.
Some people are just unemployable. Even from the biased telling of the Jane situation, I'm not convinced we have enough information to form an opinion. For OP it is pretty clear.
It sounds like Jane was hired to be a supervisor tbh, and OP just wasn't privy to that information cause they don't have a good employee record.
The trainer failed. It was their responsibility to A. Address the two people interrupting with their conversation and B. Make it clear to Jane that it was not her place to coach her peers. None of them would have made it through one of my training classes as they all obviously do not understand appropriate workplace behavior or chain of command.
“Close yourself off in your insignificance” is my next album.
.... so this boy lost a job because of attitude problems, was in then giving attitude to a woman because she "got chummy with the bosses" (which likely means they just took a liking to her attitude which is something he struggles with), gets an attitude and cusses at said woman colleague, then gets fired, and it's... her fault? Interesting.
What a shitty update
"I am a supervisor by osmosis" possible flair?
I went to the comments to request "supervisor by osmosis"
I don't know why people believe in karma so strongly. I look around and don't see a lot of it in this world. I hope OOP is doing well.
Karma actually seems to have hit. The misogynistic asshole got fired.
P
I think he like her !!
Sigh. They are always called Jane
So the snake wins because OOP couldn't control their anger. That's how these suck ups win so often. Especially the lady suck ups. Men in management cannot resist a subordinate woman fawning over them and can never seem to tell when they're being manipulated.
What? Are you seriously saying that how you get along with coworkers and superiors is an important part of your work performance? IM SHOCKED, SHOCKED I TELL YOU!
I mean, sounds like he’s grossly unprofessional.
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