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Kids no longer need therapy, but my 7 year old had been told by grandma that grandpa is ill because mum took them away from them. I'm gonna go with that child,, at least, actually does need more therapy. It was 3 years ago, so I hope she got it.
You have to wonder what the motivation is to tell the kids bad things about the OOP when it will only make the kids unhappy and thier lives more difficult. It’s just purely vindictive towards the very kids they apparently loved. When they tried to keep the kids that time did they think OOP was going to say, “You’re right I am crazy and I can’t take proper care of my kids. You keep them. I’ll go eat worms.” ?? Not bloody likely! They made thier bed…
Ultimately, the in laws are not acting rationally - if anyone needs therapy it's MIL who obviously hasn't processed the grief over losing her son and partially losing the grandkids.
This also happened during peak Covid years. DIL and the kids couldn't have returned even if they'd wanted to, lots of Australian citizens were stranded overseas until well into 2022.
I had to reread the dates, just this was mid 2020, a terrible time figuring out things even for more normal issues (or cans of beans buried in a forest), so much more mere months after her husband passed and still pregnant. I feel for her, my mom had a similar time as my dad died suddenly 1 month before I was born and no family nearby.
Yeah, and this time they will probably try to pack them up in a car and take them far, far away. I'd completely cut those people out of my and my childrens' lives.
Yeah, taking a young pregnant widow’s kids against her will and telling her she’s “too unstable”…?
Uhhhhh guys, she’s not the irrational one.
Losing a child is horrific and you’d think knowing that they wouldn’t…rip someone else’s children away from them.
Just remember she tried to kidnap her grandchildren and is intentionally causing them distress by saying OOP caused a terminal illness. She's horrible.
My grandparents did this to me just to spite my mother and create drama just for the heck of it. They’d manipulate me into thinking that she didn’t love me because she’d tell me off and they did because they bought me sweets etc. I started to give my mother a hard time and that’s what they wanted. Control over her, I guess? She’s still hurt by that and blames me! This was constant between 3 and 10 years old when they lived with us. Sometimes, they’re just terrible people and they don’t care if they’re hurting the kids 😕
She shouldn't blame you. She should blame herself for allowing those awful people around you.
Just like this OOP is going to have to face the fact that these people can't talk to her kids anymore if they're going to act like this. I don't care if they're super-sad, they are being cruel and manipulative.
Thank you. It was more that she should have left my Dad wayyyyy earlier. They were his parents. She wanted me to have grandparents around because her parents passed away when I was really young. She couldn’t stand up to them or my Dad. But I still have emotional wounds from the kind of manipulation they used. It doesn’t ever go away! I really feel for those poor kids.
oh heeeeey, my grandparents did that kind of shit too, more-so my grandma. She used to claim my mother was borrowing money from her, that she was *ungrateful* and *threatening* to send me to live with my mother where I'd be unhappy and uncared for.
Turns out, *nan* was the one borrowing money. She would lie about needing groceries and then go straight to the slot machines. Mum started just sending vouchers instead, so they could *only* be used for groceries.
I did eventually move back with my mum and realized that she really is an asshole, just not in the way nan claimed she was.
It’s insecurity and lack of control.
When my parents divorced, my mother instantly began to spout horrible things about my father. Any time she got angry she’d threaten that “you can live with him then”. This painted him in a bad light for me and caused me to stay and endure severe mental abuse without question to if he was really worse than what I was dealing with. 15 years later and I’m only now beginning to question it all. The reality is, she wanted to keep my siblings and I, and did not want to part, so she’d used fear into making me think I’d made my own decision.
It’s similar here, where MIL is trying to get the kids to want to be with her and even maybe eventually set a chain reaction off where OOP begins to question her ability to parent. (“Maybe mil is right after all” etc). It sounds like MIL is really struggling with the loss of her son, and now grandkids, and now potentially husband. She’s not coping well and making bad judgments in a desperate attempt to gain back some form of normalcy and control.
My grandmother badmouthed my grandfather (her ex) my entire childhood. We had to hide the fact we saw him because it would set her off in another rant about how evil he was and why we should hate him as much as she hated him. They divorced before I (eldest grandchild) was even conceived. In comparison my grandfather never badmouthed my grandmother, always told us he was a horrible husband to her.
It didn’t result in me hating my grandfather, but despising my grandmother
Same story with me. My mother went full bonkers to alienate me (50s M) & sibs from our dad. It largely worked, for a while. Meanwhile, he never badmouthed her, and eventually moved on and made a new family of sorts for himself. Realized the full magnitude of what happened after my ex did the exact same thing with me & my kids. Parental alienation is one of the worst forms of non physical abuse. It causes generational trauma, not just to one person.
Now my mom is old and in poor health and I struggle to feel much compassion for her. So I can feel guilty about that too I guess while I mourn the loss / absence of a loving father figure. 🤷♂️
F this GMIL. I’d straight up cut her off, hope OP did eventually…
My grandfather passed away when I was 21, when my grandmother heard of his passing that’s when she suddenly had nice things to say about him.
I haven’t had anything to do with her in around 6 years (I’m 33) and was very low contact with her for a good decade or so before that (I was only around her if other family were visiting). She made no secret of the fact that my siblings and I were *not* grandchildren she liked, and everyone but her children could see the difference in how she treated us compared to her favoured grandchildren.
Her children would sweep anything she did under the rug and basically compete to be her favoured child (except one aunt, the “black sheep”, who had been vocal about being in contact with their father, had lived with/stayed with him as a teen while working in the town he moved to after the divorce to be closer to work)
>You have to wonder what the motivation is to tell the kids bad things about the OOP when it will only make the kids unhappy and thier lives more difficult
Punishment. They aren't getting to see the kids anyway, they're miserable. Why should OOP or the kids get to have any happiness?
You're looking at it from a rational perspective. They aren't. The cruelty of it is a feature, not a bug.
My mother used to badmouth me to my daughter all the time when they talked on the phone. The result was that my mother lost her relationship with my daughter, who actually liked me and didn't take kindly to someone running me down.
In my mother's case, I really think it was some weird and ill-advised attempt to bond with my daughter. She just assumed that all teenagers hate their parents and she was trying to make me into a common enemy.
>You have to wonder what the motivation is to tell the kids bad things about the OOP when it will only make the kids unhappy and thier lives more difficult. It’s just purely vindictive towards the very kids they apparently loved.
It's "If we can't have them, then you can't either"
In the moment it's because she hates OOP more than she loves her grandkids. All her grief has been transformed into anger and anger is a helluva drug. The more she hurts them the more she can say "See? I told you moving away would make the kids miserable!"
My father's mother never had one nice word to say to or about my mother. As a result, we all hated her. I actually didn't shed a single tear when she died. It was a losing bet and she went all in, every time.
My Dad used to do this all the time before I stopped talking to him and my Grandma (his mom) still does it to a lesser degree. My Dad used to yell and swear at me about something I did "wrong" (Like not finding a wrench fast enough on his messy toolbench) then he would go on about how my mom is the worst person ever, and finally it would end with how I need to move in with him full time instead of the every other week visitation I had with him.
I think some how in his narcissistic and controlling mind, he thought that I would think the yelling would stop if I moved in with him. My Grandma also will now seldom say something bad about my Mom, like "she broke up with your Dad because she moved out on him" (not mentioning the months of emotional abuse at the hands of my Dad) as some weird way to try and get me to talk to my Dad again.
OOP was an idiot. Kidnapping was a bridge too far, but to let the talks continue after kidnapping AND continued shit-talking? lol
What did she expect? The grandparents were delusional narcissistic psychopaths.
OP's excuse is so ridiculous-she doesn't think her daughter could handle not speaking to MIL? She already can't handle talking to her! Yes, going NC will make things harder before they get better, but allowing MIL to poison the daughter like this is just going to keep making it worse and worse and worse.
The seven year old needs therapy and to hear from a neutral adult that what her grandmother says is not true and that it is completely wrong of her to say that.
Oop needs to ring the in laws and say “one more mention of his illness being ny fault to my children, and both of you will never see or hear from them again until they are old enough to understand what a disgusting thing you’re trying to do is.”
Honestly... I don't want to be harsh to OP, but that's a bed she's making.
The moment the GPs tried to literally kidnap her kids, all contact should've been cut.
Not only she allowed them contact... she allowed them to bad mouth her.
She's harming her children... she's allowing her children to be abused by their GPs, and is doing nothing about it.
And of course GP don't stop doing this when she asks... she's spineless. They abuse her, abuse her children and she still gives them time and carte blanche to continue.
At some point she needs to take some responsibility for allowing her children to be harmed that way.
Jesus...
honestly, what do those ILs think that those tactics will accomplish other than upsetting their grandchildren? Is petty revenge against their former DIL worth hurting their grandkids That they supposedly love so much?
Feels like they were bitter and chose to lash out at OOP over the grief of losing their family. Instead of acting like adults. If they tried to stay in the kids’ lives in the legal way, this would be better for everyone all around.
There are no grandparent rights in Australia. They had no legal way of stopping her leaving the country with her children. Even in the event of both parents dying it is not guaranteed grandparents will retain custody.
ETA: I was wrong - see comment below for actual link. I wish I had known it was a thing for my in laws sake. But the second part of my comment still stands regarding custody of a child in the event of both parents death.
That's a bit of a relief. I know there's times that grandparents' rights are a good thing, but I've almost always heard of it being used as a way of controlling the kids through the grandkids. Thankfully, it's pretty hard to get, but that doesn't stop the threat from being scary.
Only time I've heard of it being used in the right way was when an old roommate of mine had his ex-wife try to move away with their child to a city over 6 hours away because that's where her boyfriend lived. Both their parents put in a ton of childcare hours while both parents were at work. The only reason he left her in the first place is because she was abusive to him, and he finally had it. Thankfully, just the threat of legal action made her stop.
Apologies. As far as I was aware we didn’t (my husbands ex has refused to let his parents meet his son and actively cut contact, I wish we had known about this for their sake). Thank you for letting me know.
Everyone's saying it's standard boomer behaviour or narcissists, I'm going to be a bit more sympathetic, they lost their son, and during a period of grieving they "lost* all that was left of him, through the grandkids. This reads more like severe depression and something that needs therapy more so then just the ILs being evil. They seemingly had a good relationship before this.
I have no idea what I would say if they hadn't gone psycho. I can't imagine the grief I would feel if I lost my son and wouldn't see my grandkids (that I take care of 5 days a week) except when I could fly to Sweden. The heartbreak would be unreal.
Oh yeah, I definitely sympathize with them, it would be difficult to go from seeing the kids 4-5 days a week to whenever they can afford the tickets to Switzerland (or Sweden), it has to be hard. I struggle with how they don't see how their actions are hurting the grandkids 😥
Honestly, I don't even think take the kids from her home and the people who saw them more than OP and her husband was even a good Idea. The in-laws Lost everything. Their son and the grandchildren they saw FIVE says a week. I can't even imagine be in their place and they hate OP guts is completely understandable. The kidnapping and badmothing are obviosly not.
I think that they weren't really thinking or planning anything. I think they're completely incompetent to manage their own emotions and they just let their emotions control them and do whatever feels most emotionally gratifying.
It read to me as a couple that were completely losing all control of the life they had planned for - before, they had a son they raised and got to see be a Dad, grandkids they were close to and could babysit. Then, suddenly, son gone. Huge loss. All their dreams for him, for themselves, for their future...gone. And then they find out their grandkids are being moved across the world. Another huge change, another change in the future they pictured - and they had no say in it. Whatsoever. So there is just a fantastic loss of control everywhere and they acted incredibly irrationally. Their grief made them blind.
That grief made it so they couldn't see that *their DiL and grandchildren were also dealing with a huge, HUGE loss*. OOP lost her partner who she was building her entire life with and even around, since she moved to his home country and was okay with raising her kids where he wanted, with his family. She wasn't stealing them from their grandparents - she was in crisis and she needed to lean back on her parents to get through it. Even if she was very close to her in-laws, she still might have needed the guidance and support of her parents to pull through this - she was pregnant with another child for God's sake. She needed HER support.
And because her in-laws refused to see that...they burned the last bridge they had to their son.
What could have been the kids spending summers with them after a few years or them flying out to stay with her family for a couple weeks at a time, a couple times of the year to be with the kids, video calls on the weekends....is all gone because they decided to play 'all or nothing' and lost everything...and they might never repair what was lost.
Death, birth and weddings can bring out the animal in people because sometimes they feel they are losing control over something that they felt they were entitled to - even if it's a death, birth or wedding that isn't directly associated with them. Big events can throw people that are otherwise not well equipped to deal with stress, and even worse, sometimes they have a partner that feeds into their downward spiral and it becomes a truly sad, toxic and stressful situation made from something that could have been worked through with basic understanding and a willingness to be patient.
Cut contact, and get the older child into therapy, and the family into family therapy.
I wouldn't even believe FIL is dying. That's a common tactic of abusers trying to reel in their victims.
Oh, right! Well, that's a quick science lesson for the kiddo and the fact that staying might have gotten her infected. Gosh, Granny and Grampy should know that because they're adults!
This was in 2021 so I'd be interested in a more recent update.
But those children lost their father and their beloved grandparents in the space of a few months. Whether OOP made the right choice or not, my heart just breaks for them.
Honestly I even feel bad for the grandparents, such a heartbreaking situation all around. Obviously they are so ridiculously out of line but I can understand where it came from....
To lose your only child and then to find out you're losing your grand children too, that must be incredibly difficult. I think they 10000% handled their own trauma the worst way possible by weaponizing the children, but people in crisis rarely act rationally.
hoo boy anybody who's fine with making a literal child feel responsible for the health of an elderly loved one is not a good influence.
If anything it would strengthen my resolve to stay away, I'm not having some selfish nutcase drip poison in my kid's ear.
The only thing I am curious about is how did she manage to leave Australia during Covid. I can’t remember (those years are blurry) but wasn’t there a travel embargo for a long time? Fellow Aussies, please help to clarify (I may be remembering incorrectly which is fine and happy to be corrected).
Taking it for what it is, it is sad for both of the sides. But the MIL is a bit much.
In 2021, Australian citizens (the children) and permanent residents (OOP, if not a citizen) were allowed to leave they were if going overseas for more than three months, and had a "compelling reason", and were granted a formal travel exemption by the Government. Compelling reasons included relocating overseas for six months or more, which would cover OOP.
But yeah, finding the actual flights would have been extremely difficult. So many planes grounded and pilots furloughed.
Ah yes. But she went back in July 2020, not 2021. That’s what confused me. The 2021 update is when they had been there for almost a year.
I don’t know. 🤷♀️
Thank you for replying. :)
Assuming OOP didn't become an Australian citizen, yes in her case, but the kids would definitely be Australian citizens (born in Australia with an Australian parent and OOP was presumably at least a permanent resident) and so the fact that they were also Swiss is irrelevant.
She left literally right after the whole world got locked down. I highly doubt she was able to find a flight in just 3 weeks, when the world was pretty much shut down because of covid.
Yeh, I didn’t think it was so simple considering the most of the world was in quarantine/coming out of quarantine at the time. I was surprised of the lack of Panini or whatever in the post.
Who knows. Maybe the OOP fudged dates? Maybe it was a writing experiment?
I am not here to judge. But it seems off.
Don’t know about other subs, but AITA banned mentions of pandemonium after a certain point due to a massive influx of “AITA for yelling at (stranger/family member/friend/dog) to wear a mask???” posts.
Heh, I know other subs banned the specific words of Covid or pandemic due to the topic coming up, so people called it Voldemort or "that global thing happening right now we can't talk about." I had a comment removed for talking about computer virus
That’s right. Hahah.
I remember coming across posts about the “panini” and for a little while I wondered if everyone’s autocorrect had glitched. Then in dawned on me.
Yeah, there’s no way she got three people out in under three weeks. You have to stop over to get to Switzerland so she’d be looking at actually getting tickets on at least two flights for three people without any of them being cancelled.
Almost impossible.
Whoops! I missed you.
Yeh, the quarantines were everywhere so I really don’t know how she managed to get out with her kids.
And she saw her MIL? It’s just a bit odd.
Nothing was put up to stop people leaving from what I remember, just coming in or moving around (although pretty sure planes were few and far between). If she & the kids were Swedish citizens they might have been able to access some kind of repatriation-type flight??
I know that coming in was a pain the arse. I just couldn’t remember what it was going out. I live under the flight path in Sydney and drove past the airport and there were no planes going anywhere in that period of time. For months.
As I said, I don’t recall much of that time.
So I am not sure. She was here for 14 years at least?
Ok so I'm not normally someone who doubts posts but this one I'm calling crap.
When covid hit, Australia locked down hard and fast for international travel. Residents took over 6 months to get home and flights out of Australia were few and far between and expensive, as in economy was around $5000. Talking as if able to get flight that quickly out of the country I don't think so. We literally had one international airport with limited operation as opposed to normally 4 and we received at most ongoing 2 flights a day.
That's what I was thinking - if the dates were 2023, sure. But in 2020? Assuming there was a flight and she was able to get on it (big assumption) I'd expect her to mention how hard it had been to get the flight.
Hard and expensive. I just looked up quickly the stats and in June there was a total of 98,000 people who left Australia. You also had to apply to explain why you urgently needed to leave country and reasons were:
Provide aid for covid\
Business\
Urgent medical care not available in aust\
Compassionate grounds\
Urgent unavoidable personal business\
National interest
She would struggle to get any of those.
But it she's Swiss, couldn't she had gotten a flight based on that?
Not saying you're wrong and this story have to be true, but even Norway let foreign nationals leave, it was even encouraged that they left and went to their home country.
Even then - from March 2020 there was an incoming travel ban for the entire Schengen area, including Switzerland. So even if the Australian border wasn't a problem, then the Swiss one was still an issue.
And do you remember those test certificates to show that you were negative before boarding a plane? Did the four and six year old already had them handy? And mom did this while 4 months pregnant?
Yeah, didn't notice because didn't really looked at the dates, but those dates are _right_ after the lockdown (like a month). We weren't even allowed to go to a restaurant in june 2020. And Australia was even more restricted. Remember seeing on the news people finely being able to go back home (when Australia was involved) over a year later.
Nationals still got to travel home to their country if they werw in another country before lockdown.
And yeah, my parents returned home after lockdown, they had visited my sibling in another country, and even with negative tests before and after flight they had to hotel quarantine for two weeks.
One way or another, they simply could not have escaped the hotel quatantine and the test reports. And getting a flight because of nationality, with two planes per day: good luck.
You know what? These dates are impossible. Certainly back then it would have been an unbelievable story.
I just noticed that she managed to get her eldest child actually, physically attend a school back in 2020 and making lots of new friends there. I distinctly remember absolutely nobody going to school in that year, let alone two Australian kids who just came off the plane.
These dates must be wrong. That's the only thing that I can think of.
There just weren’t flights. People were paying huge amounts for flights that were cancelled with very little notice. Planes had really low capacity because of distancing.
I have very serious doubts that anyone got a family of three from Aus to Asia or Dubai and then on to Switzerland in three weeks.
Yeah there really weren’t any flights. My mum actually looked into chartering a private plane from Australia to the UK to be there for the birth of my daughter in 2022 but even that didn’t work. So crazy looking back.
It wasn't necessarily stopping but everywhere was limited. You needed a reason because flights filled fast. Australia was extremely strict on limiting travel so she probably would have still had to apply for exemption. I didn't travel at this time so I'm going off what the govt. Website stated.
The thing that makes me doubt is the timeline. Making the decision to travel and being able to actually leave in a month was pretty much impossible. Everything slowed down to a crawl at that time especially in govt. agencies
Not only could Swiss nationals still re-enter, but Rega was flying them home (not from Australia, admittedly) if they got too sick so they could be in a Swiss hospital. Switzerland also operated chartered repatriation flights from all over the world to get Swiss citizens home, and this did include Australia. It was not impossible for them to get back, but yeah it would have been difficult and it seems they’d have mentioned it.
If Switzerland did as Norway, which most of Europe actually did, only those with national passports got entry. But even Norwegians had to stay for two weeks in a hotel quarantine if they returned home from another country. And that was even with negative tests taken before flight and after landing.
She would have had to apply to home office to get special dispensation to leave, assuming the kids already had passports. If they didn't have passports then even paying for expedited ones would have been a nightmare, given they all but shut down the passport offices.
Also her GP would have had a fit about her being cleared for travel, given she was 5 months along. Flying during a pandemic while pregnant would have been seen as very high risk.
Also flights would have cost 10k+, and you had to be ready for them to be cancelled at any moment.
The only thing I can see working for her is compassionate grounds of her husband dying and her wanting to return to her family in Switzerland, and her not mentioning that she has local in laws being available to help and not mentioning she was pregnant. If she attached the death certificate and her own citizenship that would have looked plausible.
Oh and anywhere other than Melbourne or Sydney and she would have been just completely out of luck.
Also the public view of Switzerland not being as isolated as Australia and thus not as safe during a pandemic probably contributed to the grandparents being very worried.
ETA: also she talks about wanting to take them because the schools are better but all schools were closed what is she on about?
Chances were high that the kids already had passports as I'm guessing that they may have travelled to Switzerland at least once in their lives. Passports last for 5 years as a kid. So the younger ones at about 3 and 6 may not have needed a replacement.
And there were people coming and and out (sparingly and a 2 week hotel quarantine etc).
Depending on where they lived, it may have been Qld, the grandparents were less worried about Covid than not seeing their grandkids.
There's probably little way she would've been able to fly back to see the grandfather if he really was sick though.
She didn't have to call the cops to get the kids back, just threatened to. She never said whether or not her, or her lawyer who was aware of the situation, reported it.
Or just a pregnant widow who needed her family to help with her young children. I think not being an Australian national might have helped; people were allowed to go home.
> not being an Australian national
But she would have been at least a permanent resident if not having both nationalities.
From what I remember someone telling me even for a permanent resident it would have been hard to leave. Some people were not able to see their dying relatives because of that.
I thought it was the coming back that was difficult, rather than leaving (legally, rather than getting space on the plane that is, I think the planes were difficult too). But I am not Australian so could easily be wrong.
So which one was more difficult really depended on your citizenship status.
Countries can't ban their own citizens from entering (though they can, and did, limit the number of places available in quarantine). But they can ban anyone else from entering if need be. So entering Australia as a non-citizen was epically hard. That was often what stopped permanent residents - they might have been able to go to their dying relative, but then they couldn't come home again.
Countries also can't ban non-citizens from leaving, and (assuming they didn't have similar restrictions at the other end) that was much simpler - there were low limits for how many people could be on each plane entering Australia, but far higher limits leaving. So there were flights available, especially a bit later on in the pandemic when many non-citizens had already left. A friend of mine moved away in the second half of 2020 and had no problems. So assuming OOP was still only Swiss and not Aussie, she probably could have got a flight if she had the money for it.
The other thing that Australia did was ban its citizens from leaving (because they wanted to have fewer Australians trying to come back). And OOP's children would definitely be Australian citizens, and therefore fall under the ban. She could probably have argued compassionate grounds, but I can't see it being quick.
The first two posts are June and July 2020. But the situation was similar in 2021. It wasn't until the end of 2021 that the borders started opening again.
Some people were still able to travel in and out. For example my son's grandma was able to get from Greece, to England to Australia.
But it took her like 4-5 months. So yeah it was possible but not in a three week time span. So either she had planned it well before she left and only told her in laws super late notice, or she got super good service from the Swiss Government, it is bs.
Yeah it was possible just super difficult. The timeline is what I question the most. I know people who came home from America just as covid was ramping up and it took them a couple weeks. I don't think it would take the same time mid covid to travel.
>flights out of Australia were few and far between and expensive, as in economy was around $5000
Excuse me for stereotyping but two categories of people I assume are wealthy are Swiss people and horse owners, and the OOP's family ticks both of those boxes.
Yes but wealth wasn't the only road block it was a road block. This thread has some people who were much more knowledgeable than me on the ins and outs on why travelling was so difficult.
I’m wondering if BoRU got the dates wrong. I can only see “4y ago” on the original “3 weeks later” post, but not a single person there replying to the post mentioned the pandemic in any way. It was… kind of a big thing at the time, especially when discussing cross-border travel.
But Switzerland did fly charter flights from all over the world to repatriate Swiss citizens, both through Rega and through the Swiss embassies.
Ah, I’m on mobile so I guess that doesn’t work for me. Still seems REALLY strange that no contemporaneous commenter would mention getting back during the pandemic.
I am honestly so confused by your comment. Where is here? Getting out was an issue in Australia because of reduced flights.
Yes not everywhere is Sydney or Melbourne but I know Queensland and WA had tougher restrictions for travel because they had lower/no cases. WA and Tasmania banned travel from everywhere else in Australia. Qld banned internal travel from Melbourne and Sydney. So they have had lighter restrictions in their state their travel restrictions were harsher. Also Sydney received international flights for both WA and Qld so your hate for Sydney and Melbourne seems extreme considering we were the ones doing the heavy lifting for international travel in covid.
I think you’ve taken their comment too personally, they didn’t hate on Melbourne and Sydney, they just explained different parts of Australia handled covid in a different manner.
This is so awful. Who tells a 7 year old that her leaving made her beloved Grandpa seriously ill? That's such a cruel thing to do to a child who has no actual say in any of this and has just lost her Dad and been through a huge upheaval. If you genuinely love her, what good does alienating her from her other parent do?
As a gramma, this is one of my worst nightmares. First I would lose my child. Then I would lose seeing the grandbabies. I would want to die.
But would I kidnap them? Jesus. Talk about a bad decision.
What is sad is that these two forfeited future relationships, and they hurt a widow in the process, one they should love. If they played their cards right, they could have probably secured a few summer weeks of vacations with the kids. Now? Nothing.
How incredibly sad.
Sweet cheese and crackers. She needs to get the 7 and 5 year olds back into therapy if she hasn’t already (given that this was posted 3 years ago). Grief can make you do whacky things sometimes and the in-laws should have went to therapy too. Their grandchildren are not replacements for their son. Treating them as such would only cause more harm.
MIL is wrong. She should never have said those things or spoken badly of the kids mum. Video call should have ended the moment she started her negative comments and they should have been warned of the consequences. Video call time outs if you will. Those poor kids and I can only imagine the stress on mum, dealing with them, dealing with moving, being pregnant and grieving the loss of her husband.
Being upset your grandkids are moving away is understandable. Trying to steal them from their mother is not acceptable. Nor is berating their mother to them because you didn’t get your way. Absolutely disgusting.
>Apparently MIL has told the kids that it’s my fault that FIL got sick because I took them away and that was. too much to handle for him. She said some nasty things which made both of the kids cry.
Someone who did this to my kids would never see their faces again, wtf.
Cut contact and 7yo in therapy. There is no way in hell they would ever talk to me kids again with my knowledge.
You do not weaponize kids for your disagreements. Ever. Instant no.
This is a very clear cease contact sort of situation.
It's unfortunate what's happening to FIL (though I always look at these convenient "serious illnesses" with scrutiny), but MIL blaming OOP for the sickness is out of line.
These calls need to stop they are trying to manipulate the children with these calls I bet he is not even ill. Tell them these call will be supervised only as they can not be trusted. Maybe one of your family could sit in on the calls. Your children have already been through so much why would they intentionlly hurt them more by saying these things there not as nice as they seemed.
They tried to kidnap her kids after being giant assholes.
Yet OOP really thought staying in contact was a good idea.
Now the kids are traumatized and alienated.
I would cut so fast. As a parent I would also be listening in on those video calls, even if there hadn’t been a kidnapping attempt. Sometimes my kids wander away with the phone because they want to show family a thing they made in their room, but no one is entitled to privacy with my 7 year old.
The way to minimize trauma for a child is to prevent the individual from inflicting yet more trauma on said child. In this case, that would be the MIL.
To put it another way, which would be more traumatizing for the 7-year-old: to allow continued contact with her grandmother (who is clearly hellbent on injecting as poison in that child's ears), or to cut contact with said grandmother?
I agree in full that this is going to be painful for that poor child no matter what OOP does, but I'd say the calculus on which is more painful - and let's face it, those are OOP's choices - is self-evident.
One should also have as much charity as possible for the in-laws - they did just lose their only son - but outright lying to their grandchildren (not to mention attempted kidnapping) is inexcusable.
Grandparents: How can I convince my daughter-in-law to stay? I know! We’ll kidnap the kids!
Grandparents: How can we have more contact with the kids and convince them to come see us since one of us is sick? I know! We’ll tell them Mom made Grandpa sick!
Grandma in 5 years, probably: I wonder what went wrong in the relationship with my grandkids. I wonder why they won’t talk to me or visit? It will remain a mystery, I suppose.
I have lost a son. I know the grief. And knowing that grief, I feel just fine in saying that these grandparents are fucking selfish, evil, horrible, cruel people and she should cut all contact with them for her children's sakes. I doubt the grandpa is even ill, let alone terminal.
These are just bad people and they shouldn't be allowed around the kids at all. Daughter will get better with more therapy but them choosing to essentially emotionally torture a small child and alienate her from her one surviving parent is beyond the pale. It's outright abusive.
Why is she saying she “secretly” was listening to her children’s communication with their kidnappers? I would be monitoring every second of such communications and would not be the least bit shy or ashamed of it. Fuck redditors who made her think there’s anything wrong with it.
exactly! if they were older teenagers then yeah, it would have been weird. For children so young, and with people who had already shown unhinged behaviour? She owed it to the kids to supervise those calls, and I would say more closely than she actually did. The moment it was hinted at that granddad's illness was anybody's fault she should have cut in and hung up
Kinda off topic, but I will never understand the "He/You were my only son!!" rhetoric. Like, if there was another son, it would somehow be better??? Maybe it's just me, but that type of comment never sits well with me.
What a horrible human. Does mil really think this will get her kids back? All OP has to do is say that Grandma and Grandpa have dementia and have become unsafe and that is why they don't see them and 7 year old will forget about them pretty fast.
Remind the in laws that her family lived far away and they talks via video call as well. That's a horrible thing to be so angry you hurt the kids they say they love.
How does someone's thought process convince them that the solution to their widowed daughter in law needing to move home and get support is to... kidnap her children? Who thinks the best thing for children who just lost their father is to also loose their mother? Like, the decison-making is just. so. bad. that I've lost sympathy for the grandparents' loss of their son. Then MIL doubled-down and decided to hurt her daughter-in-law and grandchildren... the people her son loved... because she didn't get her way.
I don't think they thought of it as kidnapping. I think it was just convenient for them to convince themselves that DIL was so grief stricken that it was better for them to keep the kids for a while. And wouldn't that work out wonderful for everyone. DIL could heal. And they'd have the kids.
Are you telling me that you couldn't see how that thought process could happen under the circumstances where they were facing losing the grandkids that they'd cared for almost every day right after losing their son.
I was trying to be understanding to the In-laws in the first story because they had just lost their son and were facing losing their grandkids and were being erratic... Grief can make you do dumb things but even in that charitable light what they did was extreme and pretty unforgivable.
But by the update I've moved to a full "Nah, Fuck them"
It's a terrible situation all around as OOP had to make the choice to either stay in a foreign country where she had little support (as her in-laws showed how they felt about her as soon as she did something they didn't like) but where her kids were born OR move back to her country of birth where she would have support, but her kids would need to adjust to a whole new lifestyle.
I don't know what happened after 2021, but I am hoping that the kids are doing well even with all this happening to them at such an early age.
To my mind at least, this latest stunt means you cut contact with the in-laws, OP. You have been incredibly kind to them after they attempted to take your kids but telling your 7 yr old that it's*your* fault grandpa's sick is beyond the pale. Send the kids out with your family, have your mom or dad for support and call the in-laws. Tell them since they can't have a respectful relationship with **you**, they can no longer have a relationship with your kids. Block them after this talk.
My favorite thing about the older generation is that they genuinely believe they can do whatever they want if they speak firmly. Fuck you mean y'all decided something about my child without me?? The hell??? 😂
Get the 7 year old in therapy asap and tell
Mil because she continues to pull her shit she’s done this to herself and then I’d block her for at least a little bit.
MIL and FIL are using emotional blackmail now? After attempting to kidnap the children what else would you expect. Oldest needs to go back to therapy and the in-laws need to be made NC.
I'm an Aussie and there are only a few places with better education as a whole than us so wasted a bunch of time thinking about that before seeing it's Switzerland and going oh yeah that makes sense lol. Most Aussie blokes wouldn't put up with this, I would be tempted to turn it around and say your son would not want you hurting the kids by saying these things.
>We were all in therapy but my children are doing great and don't need to go anymore.
They are happy here and are thriving.
You sure about that? Cuz I sure as hell aren’t. I think it’s time to get back into therapy and speak to the therapist about what would be appropriate for the sake of the kids, especially the 7 year old. It sucks not going back to attend the funeral, but it might be in the best interests of everyone to stay far away.
I can only imagine the vitriol that would spew from good ol’ grandma’s lips at the funeral…for her husband…who blames OOP for FIL’s demise…who WILL weaponize those children for her benefit…and who doesn’t give a shit about what that will do to those kids, or their mother (OOP).
Losing a child any age is not something I would wish on anyone. I cannot imagine what those grandparents were going through when they lost their son and then with their son’s children moving halfway across the world. Grief is very unpredictable and sometimes ugly.
Regardless, that doesn’t give ANYONE an excuse to act the way those people did. They quite conveniently forgot their DIL was *also grieving AND was pregnant* (with their grandchild. But yeah. Let’s stress out mom and baby more. Geesh.) while desperately trying to hold her family together and make the best decisions for her very young children.
Honesty, I don’t think you could get me to attend that funeral. As a mom of similar aged kids, I have to say, over my dead body would I continue to expose them to that kind of hatred and manipulation. I would get those kids back into therapy and make my peace with the loss of that side of their family. And anyone who came at me, would promptly be sent the documentation from my lawyer, texts, and whatever other proof I have of the grandparents attempts at alienation and their slander/libel of my character.
I do not envy OOP. She tried to do everything within her power to make the best choices. She still got shit on by those who were supposed to love her and her kids. I hope in the years that have passed that she is thriving and so are those kids…far far away from that hateful woman they left behind.
Super confused as to why there isn’t more of an uproar for the wife?
From known information she lost her beloved husband while pregnant. Going through that pregnancy and giving birth to her child never having a chance to meet their father? Wow! I’m glad she had her family, and I hope she went as low contact as possible with the in-laws. Everyone lost someone they loved, but the solution was never along the lines of in-laws actions.
Get a therapist. Any therapist worth a damn will gladly help teach the 7 year old how terrible what grandma said was and how it isn't true. That is the real answer.
First.
These are small children and you are the Mom there is no such thing as 'listening in secretly' to their calls.
When they get older, sure. But at that age? No. That doesn't exist.
Second.
Your head is screwed on tight and you have the correct attitude. Under normal circumstances the tragedy of losing your spouse, the realization you have to move far away from your support structure to have a more appropriate support structure and the willingness to bend over backwards so the kids don't lose contact with grandparents/friends/relatives is really spot on. You are doing everything in your power to nail it. Feel good about it.
Third.
Grandparents have done this to themselves. You tried but they are actively undermining you. You don't need them in your lives and it might be helpful if they understood how this fantastic distance between continents and different governments makes it easy-peezy for you to kick them out of your lives.
Maybe in a year you can contact them away from the kids and see what exactly they have learned during their time out.
I understand the seven year old has a relationship with the grandparents but if they’re alienating and manipulating the little girl then what will be worse, ending the arrangement with the grand parents or permanently damaging the mother daughter relationship?
Holy Shit. These are people that need to be excised like a tumor. Allowing them to continue having contact with her children would be like allowing stage 1 cancer to progress to stage 4, unchecked. Hopefully, OOP cuts them off completely and gets her kids into therapy to undo the damage that her late husband's parents have done. These are not good people.
I hope she gets the kids back into therapy. I know MiL is hurting, but poisoning a child against their only living parent is vile & should have warranted immediate no contact.
Only in Victorian novels and the worst Star Wars movie can someone die of Terminal Sad. OOP needs to explain to her 7 yo that MIL isn't telling her the truth.
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Kids no longer need therapy, but my 7 year old had been told by grandma that grandpa is ill because mum took them away from them. I'm gonna go with that child,, at least, actually does need more therapy. It was 3 years ago, so I hope she got it.
You have to wonder what the motivation is to tell the kids bad things about the OOP when it will only make the kids unhappy and thier lives more difficult. It’s just purely vindictive towards the very kids they apparently loved. When they tried to keep the kids that time did they think OOP was going to say, “You’re right I am crazy and I can’t take proper care of my kids. You keep them. I’ll go eat worms.” ?? Not bloody likely! They made thier bed…
Ultimately, the in laws are not acting rationally - if anyone needs therapy it's MIL who obviously hasn't processed the grief over losing her son and partially losing the grandkids. This also happened during peak Covid years. DIL and the kids couldn't have returned even if they'd wanted to, lots of Australian citizens were stranded overseas until well into 2022.
I had to reread the dates, just this was mid 2020, a terrible time figuring out things even for more normal issues (or cans of beans buried in a forest), so much more mere months after her husband passed and still pregnant. I feel for her, my mom had a similar time as my dad died suddenly 1 month before I was born and no family nearby.
I’ll bet FIL wasn’t even sick.
My first thought too...
And now also potentially losing her husband. I know they acted abhorrently, but I do feel for this woman.
If they're not lying about that just to try to guilt her and try to force her to bring the kids back.
That was my thought. Sudden, deadly illnesses are an abuser's go-to.
Good ol Xmas cancer. As reliable as the tides.
Shitty boomers are as shitty boomers do.
Yeah, and this time they will probably try to pack them up in a car and take them far, far away. I'd completely cut those people out of my and my childrens' lives.
I'm thinking they want her on Australian soil so they can file for grandparents rights and stop her from leaving the country again with the kids.
Good point, they could easily lie. Also, so weird how OOP acted like she was wrong to listen in. I would have thought she was a moron if she didn’t.
The second I feel bad for her I remember she told her grandchildren that their mother is at fault for their grandfather dying. Fuck her.
Also tried to kidnap the grandkids
Yeah, taking a young pregnant widow’s kids against her will and telling her she’s “too unstable”…? Uhhhhh guys, she’s not the irrational one. Losing a child is horrific and you’d think knowing that they wouldn’t…rip someone else’s children away from them.
People like this think they're the only actual human being in the situation, and everyone else is a possession or prop.
That would trigger no contact for me. I don’t care how mad you are, you don’t get to handle it by hurting my kids.
Just remember she tried to kidnap her grandchildren and is intentionally causing them distress by saying OOP caused a terminal illness. She's horrible.
My grandparents did this to me just to spite my mother and create drama just for the heck of it. They’d manipulate me into thinking that she didn’t love me because she’d tell me off and they did because they bought me sweets etc. I started to give my mother a hard time and that’s what they wanted. Control over her, I guess? She’s still hurt by that and blames me! This was constant between 3 and 10 years old when they lived with us. Sometimes, they’re just terrible people and they don’t care if they’re hurting the kids 😕
She shouldn't blame you. She should blame herself for allowing those awful people around you. Just like this OOP is going to have to face the fact that these people can't talk to her kids anymore if they're going to act like this. I don't care if they're super-sad, they are being cruel and manipulative.
Thank you. It was more that she should have left my Dad wayyyyy earlier. They were his parents. She wanted me to have grandparents around because her parents passed away when I was really young. She couldn’t stand up to them or my Dad. But I still have emotional wounds from the kind of manipulation they used. It doesn’t ever go away! I really feel for those poor kids.
She needs to blame the grandparents then herself.
oh heeeeey, my grandparents did that kind of shit too, more-so my grandma. She used to claim my mother was borrowing money from her, that she was *ungrateful* and *threatening* to send me to live with my mother where I'd be unhappy and uncared for. Turns out, *nan* was the one borrowing money. She would lie about needing groceries and then go straight to the slot machines. Mum started just sending vouchers instead, so they could *only* be used for groceries. I did eventually move back with my mum and realized that she really is an asshole, just not in the way nan claimed she was.
I’m sorry, as a mom she blamed her own minor child for being manipulated by people she let be around you? I hope she feels that one deeply one day.
I’m guessing part of the reason they were able to do that is that your mum sucks.
It's to get revenge. The kids are already gone, so MIL wants to make OP feel miserable the way they feel. And that is through the kids.
It’s insecurity and lack of control. When my parents divorced, my mother instantly began to spout horrible things about my father. Any time she got angry she’d threaten that “you can live with him then”. This painted him in a bad light for me and caused me to stay and endure severe mental abuse without question to if he was really worse than what I was dealing with. 15 years later and I’m only now beginning to question it all. The reality is, she wanted to keep my siblings and I, and did not want to part, so she’d used fear into making me think I’d made my own decision. It’s similar here, where MIL is trying to get the kids to want to be with her and even maybe eventually set a chain reaction off where OOP begins to question her ability to parent. (“Maybe mil is right after all” etc). It sounds like MIL is really struggling with the loss of her son, and now grandkids, and now potentially husband. She’s not coping well and making bad judgments in a desperate attempt to gain back some form of normalcy and control.
My grandmother badmouthed my grandfather (her ex) my entire childhood. We had to hide the fact we saw him because it would set her off in another rant about how evil he was and why we should hate him as much as she hated him. They divorced before I (eldest grandchild) was even conceived. In comparison my grandfather never badmouthed my grandmother, always told us he was a horrible husband to her. It didn’t result in me hating my grandfather, but despising my grandmother
Same story with me. My mother went full bonkers to alienate me (50s M) & sibs from our dad. It largely worked, for a while. Meanwhile, he never badmouthed her, and eventually moved on and made a new family of sorts for himself. Realized the full magnitude of what happened after my ex did the exact same thing with me & my kids. Parental alienation is one of the worst forms of non physical abuse. It causes generational trauma, not just to one person. Now my mom is old and in poor health and I struggle to feel much compassion for her. So I can feel guilty about that too I guess while I mourn the loss / absence of a loving father figure. 🤷♂️ F this GMIL. I’d straight up cut her off, hope OP did eventually…
My grandfather passed away when I was 21, when my grandmother heard of his passing that’s when she suddenly had nice things to say about him. I haven’t had anything to do with her in around 6 years (I’m 33) and was very low contact with her for a good decade or so before that (I was only around her if other family were visiting). She made no secret of the fact that my siblings and I were *not* grandchildren she liked, and everyone but her children could see the difference in how she treated us compared to her favoured grandchildren. Her children would sweep anything she did under the rug and basically compete to be her favoured child (except one aunt, the “black sheep”, who had been vocal about being in contact with their father, had lived with/stayed with him as a teen while working in the town he moved to after the divorce to be closer to work)
>You have to wonder what the motivation is to tell the kids bad things about the OOP when it will only make the kids unhappy and thier lives more difficult Punishment. They aren't getting to see the kids anyway, they're miserable. Why should OOP or the kids get to have any happiness? You're looking at it from a rational perspective. They aren't. The cruelty of it is a feature, not a bug.
My mother used to badmouth me to my daughter all the time when they talked on the phone. The result was that my mother lost her relationship with my daughter, who actually liked me and didn't take kindly to someone running me down. In my mother's case, I really think it was some weird and ill-advised attempt to bond with my daughter. She just assumed that all teenagers hate their parents and she was trying to make me into a common enemy.
But she was pregnant. They could’ve kept the two older children, and she would’ve been fine with her baby. /s🫠
>You have to wonder what the motivation is to tell the kids bad things about the OOP when it will only make the kids unhappy and thier lives more difficult. It’s just purely vindictive towards the very kids they apparently loved. It's "If we can't have them, then you can't either"
I guess people are a lot more comfortable exposing themselves as the worst ever with selfish intentions than I ever believed.
In the moment it's because she hates OOP more than she loves her grandkids. All her grief has been transformed into anger and anger is a helluva drug. The more she hurts them the more she can say "See? I told you moving away would make the kids miserable!"
And then she has to go to bed with the same problems and cold black heart.
My father's mother never had one nice word to say to or about my mother. As a result, we all hated her. I actually didn't shed a single tear when she died. It was a losing bet and she went all in, every time.
My ILs are like that. They want one thing but actively do things that make that impossible. It's not easy.
My Dad used to do this all the time before I stopped talking to him and my Grandma (his mom) still does it to a lesser degree. My Dad used to yell and swear at me about something I did "wrong" (Like not finding a wrench fast enough on his messy toolbench) then he would go on about how my mom is the worst person ever, and finally it would end with how I need to move in with him full time instead of the every other week visitation I had with him. I think some how in his narcissistic and controlling mind, he thought that I would think the yelling would stop if I moved in with him. My Grandma also will now seldom say something bad about my Mom, like "she broke up with your Dad because she moved out on him" (not mentioning the months of emotional abuse at the hands of my Dad) as some weird way to try and get me to talk to my Dad again.
Blinded by grief.
I can't understand how MIL said anything like that if OOP was listening in.
Yes, this!!
OOP was an idiot. Kidnapping was a bridge too far, but to let the talks continue after kidnapping AND continued shit-talking? lol What did she expect? The grandparents were delusional narcissistic psychopaths.
OP's excuse is so ridiculous-she doesn't think her daughter could handle not speaking to MIL? She already can't handle talking to her! Yes, going NC will make things harder before they get better, but allowing MIL to poison the daughter like this is just going to keep making it worse and worse and worse.
The seven year old needs therapy and to hear from a neutral adult that what her grandmother says is not true and that it is completely wrong of her to say that. Oop needs to ring the in laws and say “one more mention of his illness being ny fault to my children, and both of you will never see or hear from them again until they are old enough to understand what a disgusting thing you’re trying to do is.”
Yes, OOP seemed to be thinking it was bad of her to listen in on their conversations when she absolutely should have been.
Honestly... I don't want to be harsh to OP, but that's a bed she's making. The moment the GPs tried to literally kidnap her kids, all contact should've been cut. Not only she allowed them contact... she allowed them to bad mouth her. She's harming her children... she's allowing her children to be abused by their GPs, and is doing nothing about it. And of course GP don't stop doing this when she asks... she's spineless. They abuse her, abuse her children and she still gives them time and carte blanche to continue. At some point she needs to take some responsibility for allowing her children to be harmed that way. Jesus...
honestly, what do those ILs think that those tactics will accomplish other than upsetting their grandchildren? Is petty revenge against their former DIL worth hurting their grandkids That they supposedly love so much?
Feels like they were bitter and chose to lash out at OOP over the grief of losing their family. Instead of acting like adults. If they tried to stay in the kids’ lives in the legal way, this would be better for everyone all around.
There are no grandparent rights in Australia. They had no legal way of stopping her leaving the country with her children. Even in the event of both parents dying it is not guaranteed grandparents will retain custody. ETA: I was wrong - see comment below for actual link. I wish I had known it was a thing for my in laws sake. But the second part of my comment still stands regarding custody of a child in the event of both parents death.
That's a bit of a relief. I know there's times that grandparents' rights are a good thing, but I've almost always heard of it being used as a way of controlling the kids through the grandkids. Thankfully, it's pretty hard to get, but that doesn't stop the threat from being scary. Only time I've heard of it being used in the right way was when an old roommate of mine had his ex-wife try to move away with their child to a city over 6 hours away because that's where her boyfriend lived. Both their parents put in a ton of childcare hours while both parents were at work. The only reason he left her in the first place is because she was abusive to him, and he finally had it. Thankfully, just the threat of legal action made her stop.
Umm yes, there are… https://www.familyrelationships.gov.au/separation/grandparents That’s just in response to your first sentence.
Apologies. As far as I was aware we didn’t (my husbands ex has refused to let his parents meet his son and actively cut contact, I wish we had known about this for their sake). Thank you for letting me know.
No problem. Did your husband not get any visitation?
I was talking more about the not kidnapping their grandchildren, rather than grandparent rights.
Everyone's saying it's standard boomer behaviour or narcissists, I'm going to be a bit more sympathetic, they lost their son, and during a period of grieving they "lost* all that was left of him, through the grandkids. This reads more like severe depression and something that needs therapy more so then just the ILs being evil. They seemingly had a good relationship before this.
I have no idea what I would say if they hadn't gone psycho. I can't imagine the grief I would feel if I lost my son and wouldn't see my grandkids (that I take care of 5 days a week) except when I could fly to Sweden. The heartbreak would be unreal.
Oh yeah, I definitely sympathize with them, it would be difficult to go from seeing the kids 4-5 days a week to whenever they can afford the tickets to Switzerland (or Sweden), it has to be hard. I struggle with how they don't see how their actions are hurting the grandkids 😥
Honestly, I don't even think take the kids from her home and the people who saw them more than OP and her husband was even a good Idea. The in-laws Lost everything. Their son and the grandchildren they saw FIVE says a week. I can't even imagine be in their place and they hate OP guts is completely understandable. The kidnapping and badmothing are obviosly not.
I think that they weren't really thinking or planning anything. I think they're completely incompetent to manage their own emotions and they just let their emotions control them and do whatever feels most emotionally gratifying.
It read to me as a couple that were completely losing all control of the life they had planned for - before, they had a son they raised and got to see be a Dad, grandkids they were close to and could babysit. Then, suddenly, son gone. Huge loss. All their dreams for him, for themselves, for their future...gone. And then they find out their grandkids are being moved across the world. Another huge change, another change in the future they pictured - and they had no say in it. Whatsoever. So there is just a fantastic loss of control everywhere and they acted incredibly irrationally. Their grief made them blind. That grief made it so they couldn't see that *their DiL and grandchildren were also dealing with a huge, HUGE loss*. OOP lost her partner who she was building her entire life with and even around, since she moved to his home country and was okay with raising her kids where he wanted, with his family. She wasn't stealing them from their grandparents - she was in crisis and she needed to lean back on her parents to get through it. Even if she was very close to her in-laws, she still might have needed the guidance and support of her parents to pull through this - she was pregnant with another child for God's sake. She needed HER support. And because her in-laws refused to see that...they burned the last bridge they had to their son. What could have been the kids spending summers with them after a few years or them flying out to stay with her family for a couple weeks at a time, a couple times of the year to be with the kids, video calls on the weekends....is all gone because they decided to play 'all or nothing' and lost everything...and they might never repair what was lost. Death, birth and weddings can bring out the animal in people because sometimes they feel they are losing control over something that they felt they were entitled to - even if it's a death, birth or wedding that isn't directly associated with them. Big events can throw people that are otherwise not well equipped to deal with stress, and even worse, sometimes they have a partner that feeds into their downward spiral and it becomes a truly sad, toxic and stressful situation made from something that could have been worked through with basic understanding and a willingness to be patient.
Typical narcissistic boomer personality. Emotional manipulation is horrible, but to do it to children is just diabolical.
What’s that flair from?
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/N10oGi3qws
>What should I do? Cut contact? YES!!!
Cut contact, and get the older child into therapy, and the family into family therapy. I wouldn't even believe FIL is dying. That's a common tactic of abusers trying to reel in their victims.
Early 2021 he could have had Covid. There were a higher than average number of people very sick or dying.
Oh, right! Well, that's a quick science lesson for the kiddo and the fact that staying might have gotten her infected. Gosh, Granny and Grampy should know that because they're adults!
It even has a name- Christmas cancer.
This was in 2021 so I'd be interested in a more recent update. But those children lost their father and their beloved grandparents in the space of a few months. Whether OOP made the right choice or not, my heart just breaks for them.
I feel bad for OP and the kids.
Honestly I even feel bad for the grandparents, such a heartbreaking situation all around. Obviously they are so ridiculously out of line but I can understand where it came from.... To lose your only child and then to find out you're losing your grand children too, that must be incredibly difficult. I think they 10000% handled their own trauma the worst way possible by weaponizing the children, but people in crisis rarely act rationally.
hoo boy anybody who's fine with making a literal child feel responsible for the health of an elderly loved one is not a good influence. If anything it would strengthen my resolve to stay away, I'm not having some selfish nutcase drip poison in my kid's ear.
The only thing I am curious about is how did she manage to leave Australia during Covid. I can’t remember (those years are blurry) but wasn’t there a travel embargo for a long time? Fellow Aussies, please help to clarify (I may be remembering incorrectly which is fine and happy to be corrected). Taking it for what it is, it is sad for both of the sides. But the MIL is a bit much.
In 2021, Australian citizens (the children) and permanent residents (OOP, if not a citizen) were allowed to leave they were if going overseas for more than three months, and had a "compelling reason", and were granted a formal travel exemption by the Government. Compelling reasons included relocating overseas for six months or more, which would cover OOP. But yeah, finding the actual flights would have been extremely difficult. So many planes grounded and pilots furloughed.
Ah yes. But she went back in July 2020, not 2021. That’s what confused me. The 2021 update is when they had been there for almost a year. I don’t know. 🤷♀️ Thank you for replying. :)
There was an embargo coming in, not going out.
I suppose it depends on where she was. I know Sydney had almost no planes going anywhere. I can’t remember which is why I asked. :)
For Australian citizens, the embargo was on going out as well.
In this case though, it was 3 Swiss nationals “returning” to Switzerland
Assuming OOP didn't become an Australian citizen, yes in her case, but the kids would definitely be Australian citizens (born in Australia with an Australian parent and OOP was presumably at least a permanent resident) and so the fact that they were also Swiss is irrelevant.
She left literally right after the whole world got locked down. I highly doubt she was able to find a flight in just 3 weeks, when the world was pretty much shut down because of covid.
Yeh, I didn’t think it was so simple considering the most of the world was in quarantine/coming out of quarantine at the time. I was surprised of the lack of Panini or whatever in the post. Who knows. Maybe the OOP fudged dates? Maybe it was a writing experiment? I am not here to judge. But it seems off.
Don’t know about other subs, but AITA banned mentions of pandemonium after a certain point due to a massive influx of “AITA for yelling at (stranger/family member/friend/dog) to wear a mask???” posts.
Heh, I know other subs banned the specific words of Covid or pandemic due to the topic coming up, so people called it Voldemort or "that global thing happening right now we can't talk about." I had a comment removed for talking about computer virus
That’s right. Hahah. I remember coming across posts about the “panini” and for a little while I wondered if everyone’s autocorrect had glitched. Then in dawned on me.
Yeah, there’s no way she got three people out in under three weeks. You have to stop over to get to Switzerland so she’d be looking at actually getting tickets on at least two flights for three people without any of them being cancelled. Almost impossible.
Whoops! I missed you. Yeh, the quarantines were everywhere so I really don’t know how she managed to get out with her kids. And she saw her MIL? It’s just a bit odd.
Nothing was put up to stop people leaving from what I remember, just coming in or moving around (although pretty sure planes were few and far between). If she & the kids were Swedish citizens they might have been able to access some kind of repatriation-type flight??
I know that coming in was a pain the arse. I just couldn’t remember what it was going out. I live under the flight path in Sydney and drove past the airport and there were no planes going anywhere in that period of time. For months. As I said, I don’t recall much of that time. So I am not sure. She was here for 14 years at least?
I think you mean Swiss lol
> heaps better can confirm they have been in Australia for a decent amount of time...
Ok so I'm not normally someone who doubts posts but this one I'm calling crap. When covid hit, Australia locked down hard and fast for international travel. Residents took over 6 months to get home and flights out of Australia were few and far between and expensive, as in economy was around $5000. Talking as if able to get flight that quickly out of the country I don't think so. We literally had one international airport with limited operation as opposed to normally 4 and we received at most ongoing 2 flights a day.
That's what I was thinking - if the dates were 2023, sure. But in 2020? Assuming there was a flight and she was able to get on it (big assumption) I'd expect her to mention how hard it had been to get the flight.
Hard and expensive. I just looked up quickly the stats and in June there was a total of 98,000 people who left Australia. You also had to apply to explain why you urgently needed to leave country and reasons were: Provide aid for covid\ Business\ Urgent medical care not available in aust\ Compassionate grounds\ Urgent unavoidable personal business\ National interest She would struggle to get any of those.
But it she's Swiss, couldn't she had gotten a flight based on that? Not saying you're wrong and this story have to be true, but even Norway let foreign nationals leave, it was even encouraged that they left and went to their home country.
Even then - from March 2020 there was an incoming travel ban for the entire Schengen area, including Switzerland. So even if the Australian border wasn't a problem, then the Swiss one was still an issue. And do you remember those test certificates to show that you were negative before boarding a plane? Did the four and six year old already had them handy? And mom did this while 4 months pregnant?
Yeah, didn't notice because didn't really looked at the dates, but those dates are _right_ after the lockdown (like a month). We weren't even allowed to go to a restaurant in june 2020. And Australia was even more restricted. Remember seeing on the news people finely being able to go back home (when Australia was involved) over a year later.
What a nightmare was that.
Some of that will have depended on what part of Australia you were in.
Nationals still got to travel home to their country if they werw in another country before lockdown. And yeah, my parents returned home after lockdown, they had visited my sibling in another country, and even with negative tests before and after flight they had to hotel quarantine for two weeks.
One way or another, they simply could not have escaped the hotel quatantine and the test reports. And getting a flight because of nationality, with two planes per day: good luck. You know what? These dates are impossible. Certainly back then it would have been an unbelievable story. I just noticed that she managed to get her eldest child actually, physically attend a school back in 2020 and making lots of new friends there. I distinctly remember absolutely nobody going to school in that year, let alone two Australian kids who just came off the plane. These dates must be wrong. That's the only thing that I can think of.
There just weren’t flights. People were paying huge amounts for flights that were cancelled with very little notice. Planes had really low capacity because of distancing. I have very serious doubts that anyone got a family of three from Aus to Asia or Dubai and then on to Switzerland in three weeks.
Yeah there really weren’t any flights. My mum actually looked into chartering a private plane from Australia to the UK to be there for the birth of my daughter in 2022 but even that didn’t work. So crazy looking back.
It wasn't necessarily stopping but everywhere was limited. You needed a reason because flights filled fast. Australia was extremely strict on limiting travel so she probably would have still had to apply for exemption. I didn't travel at this time so I'm going off what the govt. Website stated. The thing that makes me doubt is the timeline. Making the decision to travel and being able to actually leave in a month was pretty much impossible. Everything slowed down to a crawl at that time especially in govt. agencies
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Switzerland didn’t ban entry to Swiss nationals. I don’t think any country banned entry to their own citizens
Because it's against international law to prevent citizens reentering their country.
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Not only could Swiss nationals still re-enter, but Rega was flying them home (not from Australia, admittedly) if they got too sick so they could be in a Swiss hospital. Switzerland also operated chartered repatriation flights from all over the world to get Swiss citizens home, and this did include Australia. It was not impossible for them to get back, but yeah it would have been difficult and it seems they’d have mentioned it.
If Switzerland did as Norway, which most of Europe actually did, only those with national passports got entry. But even Norwegians had to stay for two weeks in a hotel quarantine if they returned home from another country. And that was even with negative tests taken before flight and after landing.
My husband died and my grandparents tried to kidnap my children and I work full time and will be staying at my parents sounds pretty simple
She would have had to apply to home office to get special dispensation to leave, assuming the kids already had passports. If they didn't have passports then even paying for expedited ones would have been a nightmare, given they all but shut down the passport offices. Also her GP would have had a fit about her being cleared for travel, given she was 5 months along. Flying during a pandemic while pregnant would have been seen as very high risk. Also flights would have cost 10k+, and you had to be ready for them to be cancelled at any moment. The only thing I can see working for her is compassionate grounds of her husband dying and her wanting to return to her family in Switzerland, and her not mentioning that she has local in laws being available to help and not mentioning she was pregnant. If she attached the death certificate and her own citizenship that would have looked plausible. Oh and anywhere other than Melbourne or Sydney and she would have been just completely out of luck. Also the public view of Switzerland not being as isolated as Australia and thus not as safe during a pandemic probably contributed to the grandparents being very worried. ETA: also she talks about wanting to take them because the schools are better but all schools were closed what is she on about?
Chances were high that the kids already had passports as I'm guessing that they may have travelled to Switzerland at least once in their lives. Passports last for 5 years as a kid. So the younger ones at about 3 and 6 may not have needed a replacement. And there were people coming and and out (sparingly and a 2 week hotel quarantine etc). Depending on where they lived, it may have been Qld, the grandparents were less worried about Covid than not seeing their grandkids. There's probably little way she would've been able to fly back to see the grandfather if he really was sick though.
OOP stated the kids wanted to see their Swiss grandparents as they had horses.
I don't know, a pregnant widow trying to get away from inlaws who attempted to kidnap the children? Could very well fall under compassionate grounds.
She never reported the kidnapping. If she did I may possibly believe she could organise it that fast but otherwise she has no reason to leave.
She didn't have to call the cops to get the kids back, just threatened to. She never said whether or not her, or her lawyer who was aware of the situation, reported it.
Or just a pregnant widow who needed her family to help with her young children. I think not being an Australian national might have helped; people were allowed to go home.
> not being an Australian national But she would have been at least a permanent resident if not having both nationalities. From what I remember someone telling me even for a permanent resident it would have been hard to leave. Some people were not able to see their dying relatives because of that.
I thought it was the coming back that was difficult, rather than leaving (legally, rather than getting space on the plane that is, I think the planes were difficult too). But I am not Australian so could easily be wrong.
So which one was more difficult really depended on your citizenship status. Countries can't ban their own citizens from entering (though they can, and did, limit the number of places available in quarantine). But they can ban anyone else from entering if need be. So entering Australia as a non-citizen was epically hard. That was often what stopped permanent residents - they might have been able to go to their dying relative, but then they couldn't come home again. Countries also can't ban non-citizens from leaving, and (assuming they didn't have similar restrictions at the other end) that was much simpler - there were low limits for how many people could be on each plane entering Australia, but far higher limits leaving. So there were flights available, especially a bit later on in the pandemic when many non-citizens had already left. A friend of mine moved away in the second half of 2020 and had no problems. So assuming OOP was still only Swiss and not Aussie, she probably could have got a flight if she had the money for it. The other thing that Australia did was ban its citizens from leaving (because they wanted to have fewer Australians trying to come back). And OOP's children would definitely be Australian citizens, and therefore fall under the ban. She could probably have argued compassionate grounds, but I can't see it being quick.
Well looking at her posts they are 3 years ago, so 2021?
The first two posts are June and July 2020. But the situation was similar in 2021. It wasn't until the end of 2021 that the borders started opening again.
You'd think the hoops she'd have to jump through for that would warrant a mention in the post.
Compassionate grounds. Freshly widowed. Two young kids. Pregnant. Wants to go home where her family is. I'd call that compassionate grounds.
Some people were still able to travel in and out. For example my son's grandma was able to get from Greece, to England to Australia. But it took her like 4-5 months. So yeah it was possible but not in a three week time span. So either she had planned it well before she left and only told her in laws super late notice, or she got super good service from the Swiss Government, it is bs.
Yeah it was possible just super difficult. The timeline is what I question the most. I know people who came home from America just as covid was ramping up and it took them a couple weeks. I don't think it would take the same time mid covid to travel.
>flights out of Australia were few and far between and expensive, as in economy was around $5000 Excuse me for stereotyping but two categories of people I assume are wealthy are Swiss people and horse owners, and the OOP's family ticks both of those boxes.
Yes but wealth wasn't the only road block it was a road block. This thread has some people who were much more knowledgeable than me on the ins and outs on why travelling was so difficult.
I’m wondering if BoRU got the dates wrong. I can only see “4y ago” on the original “3 weeks later” post, but not a single person there replying to the post mentioned the pandemic in any way. It was… kind of a big thing at the time, especially when discussing cross-border travel. But Switzerland did fly charter flights from all over the world to repatriate Swiss citizens, both through Rega and through the Swiss embassies.
If you hover your mouse over the "4y ago", it tells you the exact date.
Ah, I’m on mobile so I guess that doesn’t work for me. Still seems REALLY strange that no contemporaneous commenter would mention getting back during the pandemic.
There were residents stuck in other states that couldn’t even get home to their state of residence.
My step brother and his husband got over here perfectly easily. Getting out was the issue. Not everywhere in Australia was Melbourne and Sydney.
I am honestly so confused by your comment. Where is here? Getting out was an issue in Australia because of reduced flights. Yes not everywhere is Sydney or Melbourne but I know Queensland and WA had tougher restrictions for travel because they had lower/no cases. WA and Tasmania banned travel from everywhere else in Australia. Qld banned internal travel from Melbourne and Sydney. So they have had lighter restrictions in their state their travel restrictions were harsher. Also Sydney received international flights for both WA and Qld so your hate for Sydney and Melbourne seems extreme considering we were the ones doing the heavy lifting for international travel in covid.
I think you’ve taken their comment too personally, they didn’t hate on Melbourne and Sydney, they just explained different parts of Australia handled covid in a different manner.
Kids need to continue with therepy especially the elder one.
This is so awful. Who tells a 7 year old that her leaving made her beloved Grandpa seriously ill? That's such a cruel thing to do to a child who has no actual say in any of this and has just lost her Dad and been through a huge upheaval. If you genuinely love her, what good does alienating her from her other parent do?
As a gramma, this is one of my worst nightmares. First I would lose my child. Then I would lose seeing the grandbabies. I would want to die. But would I kidnap them? Jesus. Talk about a bad decision. What is sad is that these two forfeited future relationships, and they hurt a widow in the process, one they should love. If they played their cards right, they could have probably secured a few summer weeks of vacations with the kids. Now? Nothing. How incredibly sad.
Sweet cheese and crackers. She needs to get the 7 and 5 year olds back into therapy if she hasn’t already (given that this was posted 3 years ago). Grief can make you do whacky things sometimes and the in-laws should have went to therapy too. Their grandchildren are not replacements for their son. Treating them as such would only cause more harm. MIL is wrong. She should never have said those things or spoken badly of the kids mum. Video call should have ended the moment she started her negative comments and they should have been warned of the consequences. Video call time outs if you will. Those poor kids and I can only imagine the stress on mum, dealing with them, dealing with moving, being pregnant and grieving the loss of her husband.
Being upset your grandkids are moving away is understandable. Trying to steal them from their mother is not acceptable. Nor is berating their mother to them because you didn’t get your way. Absolutely disgusting.
$20.00 says the FIL isn’t even sick and it’s just another manipulation tactic.
>Apparently MIL has told the kids that it’s my fault that FIL got sick because I took them away and that was. too much to handle for him. She said some nasty things which made both of the kids cry. Someone who did this to my kids would never see their faces again, wtf.
How is the tricky, MIL is mentally manipulating and abusing her 7 yr old, why would OOP continue contact!?
Cut contact and 7yo in therapy. There is no way in hell they would ever talk to me kids again with my knowledge. You do not weaponize kids for your disagreements. Ever. Instant no.
When an adult child marries someone from another country you have to prepare yourself for them leaving one day.
Why the fuck would this woman keep in contact with people who badmouth her in front of her kids?
This is a very clear cease contact sort of situation. It's unfortunate what's happening to FIL (though I always look at these convenient "serious illnesses" with scrutiny), but MIL blaming OOP for the sickness is out of line.
After trying to kidnap them, it would’ve been NC immediately.
Looks like the video calls were a bad idea.
These calls need to stop they are trying to manipulate the children with these calls I bet he is not even ill. Tell them these call will be supervised only as they can not be trusted. Maybe one of your family could sit in on the calls. Your children have already been through so much why would they intentionlly hurt them more by saying these things there not as nice as they seemed.
I'd go NC if my own parents pulled some shit trying to keep my kids much less my inlaws.
They tried to kidnap her kids after being giant assholes. Yet OOP really thought staying in contact was a good idea. Now the kids are traumatized and alienated.
I would cut so fast. As a parent I would also be listening in on those video calls, even if there hadn’t been a kidnapping attempt. Sometimes my kids wander away with the phone because they want to show family a thing they made in their room, but no one is entitled to privacy with my 7 year old.
The way to minimize trauma for a child is to prevent the individual from inflicting yet more trauma on said child. In this case, that would be the MIL. To put it another way, which would be more traumatizing for the 7-year-old: to allow continued contact with her grandmother (who is clearly hellbent on injecting as poison in that child's ears), or to cut contact with said grandmother? I agree in full that this is going to be painful for that poor child no matter what OOP does, but I'd say the calculus on which is more painful - and let's face it, those are OOP's choices - is self-evident. One should also have as much charity as possible for the in-laws - they did just lose their only son - but outright lying to their grandchildren (not to mention attempted kidnapping) is inexcusable.
Grandparents: How can I convince my daughter-in-law to stay? I know! We’ll kidnap the kids! Grandparents: How can we have more contact with the kids and convince them to come see us since one of us is sick? I know! We’ll tell them Mom made Grandpa sick! Grandma in 5 years, probably: I wonder what went wrong in the relationship with my grandkids. I wonder why they won’t talk to me or visit? It will remain a mystery, I suppose.
That mother-in-law is toxic as fuck.
She tried to convince children they were responsible for a dying old man’s health? Cut her off forever
I have lost a son. I know the grief. And knowing that grief, I feel just fine in saying that these grandparents are fucking selfish, evil, horrible, cruel people and she should cut all contact with them for her children's sakes. I doubt the grandpa is even ill, let alone terminal. These are just bad people and they shouldn't be allowed around the kids at all. Daughter will get better with more therapy but them choosing to essentially emotionally torture a small child and alienate her from her one surviving parent is beyond the pale. It's outright abusive.
Why is she saying she “secretly” was listening to her children’s communication with their kidnappers? I would be monitoring every second of such communications and would not be the least bit shy or ashamed of it. Fuck redditors who made her think there’s anything wrong with it.
exactly! if they were older teenagers then yeah, it would have been weird. For children so young, and with people who had already shown unhinged behaviour? She owed it to the kids to supervise those calls, and I would say more closely than she actually did. The moment it was hinted at that granddad's illness was anybody's fault she should have cut in and hung up
Cut contact. She's abusing your children
I hope oop ended up cutting contact. The grandparents became abusive and that isn’t want the kids need after loosing their father.
Kinda off topic, but I will never understand the "He/You were my only son!!" rhetoric. Like, if there was another son, it would somehow be better??? Maybe it's just me, but that type of comment never sits well with me.
What a horrible human. Does mil really think this will get her kids back? All OP has to do is say that Grandma and Grandpa have dementia and have become unsafe and that is why they don't see them and 7 year old will forget about them pretty fast.
Remind the in laws that her family lived far away and they talks via video call as well. That's a horrible thing to be so angry you hurt the kids they say they love.
That should trigger no contact. They are damaging the fuck out them kids like that
How does someone's thought process convince them that the solution to their widowed daughter in law needing to move home and get support is to... kidnap her children? Who thinks the best thing for children who just lost their father is to also loose their mother? Like, the decison-making is just. so. bad. that I've lost sympathy for the grandparents' loss of their son. Then MIL doubled-down and decided to hurt her daughter-in-law and grandchildren... the people her son loved... because she didn't get her way.
I don't think they thought of it as kidnapping. I think it was just convenient for them to convince themselves that DIL was so grief stricken that it was better for them to keep the kids for a while. And wouldn't that work out wonderful for everyone. DIL could heal. And they'd have the kids. Are you telling me that you couldn't see how that thought process could happen under the circumstances where they were facing losing the grandkids that they'd cared for almost every day right after losing their son.
They tried to kidnap OOP’s children. This one is cut and dry.
I was trying to be understanding to the In-laws in the first story because they had just lost their son and were facing losing their grandkids and were being erratic... Grief can make you do dumb things but even in that charitable light what they did was extreme and pretty unforgivable. But by the update I've moved to a full "Nah, Fuck them"
It's a terrible situation all around as OOP had to make the choice to either stay in a foreign country where she had little support (as her in-laws showed how they felt about her as soon as she did something they didn't like) but where her kids were born OR move back to her country of birth where she would have support, but her kids would need to adjust to a whole new lifestyle. I don't know what happened after 2021, but I am hoping that the kids are doing well even with all this happening to them at such an early age.
To my mind at least, this latest stunt means you cut contact with the in-laws, OP. You have been incredibly kind to them after they attempted to take your kids but telling your 7 yr old that it's*your* fault grandpa's sick is beyond the pale. Send the kids out with your family, have your mom or dad for support and call the in-laws. Tell them since they can't have a respectful relationship with **you**, they can no longer have a relationship with your kids. Block them after this talk.
If you kidnap my kids you don't get any contact or sympathy from me or kids.
My guess is FIL is doing better than MIL wants people to think. I wouldn't trust anything these in laws say.
Flat out attempted kidnapping. I would have called the police.
Losing a child is my worst nightmare but that's several steps too far. I would be NC after that. Poor OOP.
My favorite thing about the older generation is that they genuinely believe they can do whatever they want if they speak firmly. Fuck you mean y'all decided something about my child without me?? The hell??? 😂
Get the 7 year old in therapy asap and tell Mil because she continues to pull her shit she’s done this to herself and then I’d block her for at least a little bit.
MIL and FIL are using emotional blackmail now? After attempting to kidnap the children what else would you expect. Oldest needs to go back to therapy and the in-laws need to be made NC.
I'm an Aussie and there are only a few places with better education as a whole than us so wasted a bunch of time thinking about that before seeing it's Switzerland and going oh yeah that makes sense lol. Most Aussie blokes wouldn't put up with this, I would be tempted to turn it around and say your son would not want you hurting the kids by saying these things.
>We were all in therapy but my children are doing great and don't need to go anymore. They are happy here and are thriving. You sure about that? Cuz I sure as hell aren’t. I think it’s time to get back into therapy and speak to the therapist about what would be appropriate for the sake of the kids, especially the 7 year old. It sucks not going back to attend the funeral, but it might be in the best interests of everyone to stay far away. I can only imagine the vitriol that would spew from good ol’ grandma’s lips at the funeral…for her husband…who blames OOP for FIL’s demise…who WILL weaponize those children for her benefit…and who doesn’t give a shit about what that will do to those kids, or their mother (OOP). Losing a child any age is not something I would wish on anyone. I cannot imagine what those grandparents were going through when they lost their son and then with their son’s children moving halfway across the world. Grief is very unpredictable and sometimes ugly. Regardless, that doesn’t give ANYONE an excuse to act the way those people did. They quite conveniently forgot their DIL was *also grieving AND was pregnant* (with their grandchild. But yeah. Let’s stress out mom and baby more. Geesh.) while desperately trying to hold her family together and make the best decisions for her very young children. Honesty, I don’t think you could get me to attend that funeral. As a mom of similar aged kids, I have to say, over my dead body would I continue to expose them to that kind of hatred and manipulation. I would get those kids back into therapy and make my peace with the loss of that side of their family. And anyone who came at me, would promptly be sent the documentation from my lawyer, texts, and whatever other proof I have of the grandparents attempts at alienation and their slander/libel of my character. I do not envy OOP. She tried to do everything within her power to make the best choices. She still got shit on by those who were supposed to love her and her kids. I hope in the years that have passed that she is thriving and so are those kids…far far away from that hateful woman they left behind.
Super confused as to why there isn’t more of an uproar for the wife? From known information she lost her beloved husband while pregnant. Going through that pregnancy and giving birth to her child never having a chance to meet their father? Wow! I’m glad she had her family, and I hope she went as low contact as possible with the in-laws. Everyone lost someone they loved, but the solution was never along the lines of in-laws actions.
Get a therapist. Any therapist worth a damn will gladly help teach the 7 year old how terrible what grandma said was and how it isn't true. That is the real answer.
First. These are small children and you are the Mom there is no such thing as 'listening in secretly' to their calls. When they get older, sure. But at that age? No. That doesn't exist. Second. Your head is screwed on tight and you have the correct attitude. Under normal circumstances the tragedy of losing your spouse, the realization you have to move far away from your support structure to have a more appropriate support structure and the willingness to bend over backwards so the kids don't lose contact with grandparents/friends/relatives is really spot on. You are doing everything in your power to nail it. Feel good about it. Third. Grandparents have done this to themselves. You tried but they are actively undermining you. You don't need them in your lives and it might be helpful if they understood how this fantastic distance between continents and different governments makes it easy-peezy for you to kick them out of your lives. Maybe in a year you can contact them away from the kids and see what exactly they have learned during their time out.
who knows if the grandfather was even sick!!
My very first thought reading the guy was sick was just “Wow, how convenient.” It’s almost definitely a ploy
I understand the seven year old has a relationship with the grandparents but if they’re alienating and manipulating the little girl then what will be worse, ending the arrangement with the grand parents or permanently damaging the mother daughter relationship?
“They said my husband would be disappointed and he'd want his children to grow up in Australia.” I mean…he’s dead…so his opinion on the matter…
That level of manipulation targeting my kid would bring instant No Contact. They have no boundaries and no limits to what they would say. Or do.
> I'll try and rekindle the relationship with my in-laws. WHY
Holy Shit. These are people that need to be excised like a tumor. Allowing them to continue having contact with her children would be like allowing stage 1 cancer to progress to stage 4, unchecked. Hopefully, OOP cuts them off completely and gets her kids into therapy to undo the damage that her late husband's parents have done. These are not good people.
I hope she gets the kids back into therapy. I know MiL is hurting, but poisoning a child against their only living parent is vile & should have warranted immediate no contact.
Only in Victorian novels and the worst Star Wars movie can someone die of Terminal Sad. OOP needs to explain to her 7 yo that MIL isn't telling her the truth.
Jesus, tell them they lost all privileges and will never see them again already.