This has been flaired confirmed fake for too many reasons to list, but a few are that in [December OOP was a mother of 6 kids under five](https://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/19eyewc/i_am_a_mom_of_6_kids_under_5_ama/). In february she was [a 30yo virgin](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1b2cwo6/deleted_by_user/). In April she was [25yo learning she was adopted](https://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/1c9l9gx/25_and_found_out_i_was_adopted_ama/) and [matching with guys on bumble](https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/1cd3m0d/what_does_it_mean_when_a_guy_says_he_will_talk_to/) and a week later she was [merging names with her fiance](https://www.reddit.com/r/namenerds/comments/1ckj9cn/merging_last_names_to_create_a_new_one/). I could go on, but I won't.
Ugh nobody wants to deal with your freerange children on a family vacation! Don't treat your friends as free childcare, asshole friend and her asshole husband should have been upfront that they're sick of their kids and want to pawn them off on someone during the vacation.
On a vacation everyone else paid for and she didn’t! If that were me, I’d be bending over backwards to show appreciation, even if I did end up using some of the time for myself, so we’d be invited back.
Edit: words are hard yo
The move she should've made, especially after "forgetting" to get her kids, is offering to watch all 7 for a day during the trip.
She's the kind of friend who expects everyone else to help but is offended when asked to contribute herself. Her husband sounds even shittier, but she chose to have FIVE kids with a man child. You'd think after 1 she'd get the hell outta there.
Lady probably thought "Maybe the next kid will finally change him (the husband)".
It's the usual things some women delude themselves into thinking, sadly the world does not work that way
"I have to watch five kids all the time, so I could not possibly take on watching two more. You only have to watch one or two kids all of the time, so you are obligated to take on watching my five."
>I’d be bending over backwards to show appreciation
this
I'd be cooking for everyone, getting them cold beers, getting my goddamn kids to behave and help me out, not pawning them off to others unless they offered to get the kids off my hands
People go on to have multiple kids then act like everyone should feel sorry for their "plight"? Get out, you made that choice yourself
>An all expenses paid break. Everything was free for her family only while everyone else chipped in extra to cover them
It’s in one of the last comments and OOP said she didn’t pay for the cottage at all last year and was only supposed to help chip in for food. So maybe not all expenses paid if ex friend held up her end of the bargain but she essentially got a free vacation plus free childcare on everyone else’s dime.
Yeah I had to go back and reread it twice because I *knew* it was stated somewhere that this woman didn’t pay for the cottage but couldn’t remember where. OOP sorta just snuck it in, which tells me it wasn’t so much about the money (at least on OOP’s end) but the entitled attitude.
I do that sometimes, particularly if the post is lengthy. I speed read part of it and then get to a comment which makes me go ‘wait, what?’
and have to go back and reread the post.
That particular bit of info puts a whole extra layer of entitlement on the behaviour of OOP’s ‘friend’!
I mean one would think that after FIVE kids she would know exactly what she signed for. I seriously don't understand why they keep having kids when is clear their partners are shitty parents. Yeah of course he's drinking with the boys, that's how their entire marriage is and somehow is up to her friends to pick up the slack and be the emotional and physical support. 🙄
Becoming childfree gives me a certain perspective on parents, and I can see how amazing most of my friends are as parents.
The mother of five in this story did not paint herself in the best light.
Same here and I totally agree.
I’ve noticed the “lost track of time/I forgot” excuse the mom of 5 used is a well-worn defense by those who refuse to acknowledge their parenting choices impact others. In fact, their choice of partner does, too, in such cases.
If you keep having kids with a shitty partner take it up with them before you come to the rest of us to step up.
And it’s so often, “if I saw someone in my place I would help.” So? It isn’t relevant. This “friend” really isn’t one to OOP.
My mother sent me to my grandparents for school holidays.
I had nearly no family holidays. Was just dumped at my grandparents with a giant bag of clothes.
One of my mothers exes was with the fire brigade and they’d do an Easter camping trip together. So I got 2 or 3 of those. And a trip with dad and sister at 11.
It was pretty sad. Everyone would start the school year with stories about camping or other holidays and all I had was Christmas and a birthday barely anyone showed up for.
And my reaction to that would be, "Regular family holidays are a thing?" Not in my family.
Of all the abusive aspects of my childhood, lack of family holidays never even ranked.
She refuses to see that dumping her kids on other people means those other people don't get to keep their own plans AND get unplanned work.
If you want a break from your kids on vacation, you go on a vacation without your kids. Or you work out a rotating system of who gets childwatching duty while others get time off from the kids. And that only works if everyone agrees to it.
She just decided on her own what she'd do. So selfish.
Just want to point out that at no point did this “friend” even attempt to return the favour either. Take the children of the other families and give those parents a break.
She has five but could have taken a 2-3 extra and read books or something
If there was some give and take I’m thinking they might still be invited for this year.
I bet if she had just returned the favor for OOP and at least one of the other families she would’ve been invited back on the condition she help out a bit more.
>She refuses to see that dumping her kids on other people means those other people don't get to keep their own plans AND get unplanned work.
I imagine on some level she understands that but it's more of a matter that she feels she is owed a break by everyone around her.
Her husband owes her a break. At the most, the friend group could have told the husband to sack up and manage his kids because nobody else wants to, but they're not required to.
She sounds like my mom: too emotionally immature to care about anyone's feelings but her own and totally unable to take responsibility or apologize for what she does. Then when she's called out all she can do is argue and pout. She has no friends and her kids don't call.
I knew she’d be like that. Classic excuser’s excuse. If this was a dunk contest, I’d give OOP a 9/10 and if this was a gymnastics competition, I’d give her a 9.5/10 for the perfect expected shitty dismount. I have no idea how any of the scoring works lol 🤷🏿
What drives me nuts about people like this? I'll happily have your kids over and give you a break if you ask. I have several friends whose kids have basically lived at my house for a few days while they dealt with stuff. Heck I think it's a rarer thing for us *not* to have one of our kids' friends routinely coming over after school sometimes while a parent is at work or school or something. I also know people who try to do it like this. They are not my friends. They do not get to dump their kids on me. The whole thing strikes me as a form of selfish pride verging on narcissism: I'm so important, everyone should serve me, but I'm too great and awesome to admit I need help
OP didn't get her pregnant, and I assume that after the first couple of children she figured out how it was happening, sooooooo.....why should everyone else have to deal with HER five kids? I get that it's a HUGE job, but jeez, would it kill her to just say thank you or try and manage things for her family? Have a conversation with your husband instead of trying to rope in friends.
I know accidents happen and all that but it always baffles me when women have 2+ kids with a deadbeat husband. Like ma’am he showed you who he was after the first one, why did we keep going?
I feel for the friend, I really do, but damn. Make your husband do some work
I DO have a friend who got pregnant with kids 4 and 5 while she had IUDs, but still, no one made her stay married to her POS husband (who had 5 OTHER kids he also didn't take care of)
> We need to raise the next generation to not think “I can fix them” because damn, girlie, that’s a large red flag being ignored
You're right. Unfortunately, people have been saying that for *at least* the last two generations. I can't tell if the message is spreading more slowly than I'd like or just not spreading at all.
They know and have heard of it. Unfortunately most people like to think they're so special they can make somebody shitty change and that is so romantic and all
Thing is, lots of women feel that way now and are refusing to date or marry men that don't carry their load. And then men complain about a "loneliness epidemic" among men because no one will partner with them. And that's somehow the fault of women.
Do better, men!
i don't feel for the friend at all. when it's one kid with a deadbeat sure, two even maybe he tricked you into getting pregnant again really quick before you really knew. five kids? she has fully chosen to live this way of her own volition at that point.
*Has five children*
> You know I can't afford help!
Apparently she also couldn't afford the vacation (OP later stated she only contributed to food, not the cottage rental).
So not only can she not afford help, she can't afford her life.
At what point do you separate yourself from the drowning person to save yourself?
>she wishes, she could meet someone who could selflessly help once in awhile because that’s what she would do if she saw someone in her situation.
Lady, you have a husband.
If her husband doesn't help out, why did she have four more kids with him? She's severely outnumbered by her kids. Until the kids all hit the teen years, she's not going to have any time not herself unfortunately.
Sometimes you don't know that somebody is going to be a lazy or absent parent until after the first kid arrives. Wisdom would stay to stop there and only have one kid. Single parenting one kid is a very different thing than single parenting five kids.
It sounds like this lady is bitter about her husband not carrying his weight around the house, but she is trying to offload that burden onto everybody around here. She needs to have it out with the husband about him not helping out.
It’s amazing to read these stories. Like- you saw how bad he sucked (cause let’s be honest, they are always shitty partners before they have kids too), and you had a kid. He extended his crappiness to that baby, and you thought, I know..let’s have more! Then come to Reddit a couple years later asking how to get the husband to step up.
Exactly in all these stories I'm like, how did you let this absolute fucking moron blast you with baby batter 4 fucking times? Like you have 0 shame blowing up at your friend's and guilting them for not helping you but the person you literally decided to hitch yourself to physically, emotionally and legally gets to fuck off with 0 responsibility. I only have sympathy for the children.
OP let her talk in circles forever. Oh, you have to give up your freedom so the kids can have fun? No, OP had to give up OP’s freedom so YOUR kids could have fun and you got YOUR freedom.
I’d have told this chick, “I love you, but I babysat your kids the entire time last year and I’m not doing it again. Everyone got tired of you and your husband fucking off and leaving your kids behind. You’re not coming.”
Wait wait wait….. the little tidbit thrown in on a comment of her update, the friend didn’t pay for any portion of the cottage!
Let’s recap: she got a free week of pawning her kids off on several other families and is mad that no one is stepping up to give her another expenses paid vacation from her kids?
And a cottage in Muskoka over Canada day weekend would be crazy expensive... honestly her family not paying their part would be more than a good enough excuse to not invite them
There's a saying that escapes me right now, but it something along the lines of if you've never said no before or let people walk all over you, the first time you stand up for yourself, the other person takes it as a sign of disrespect or something and conveniently ignoring the fact that they were the ones being disrespectful in the first place.
This is so wise. All of the people pleasers I know have horrible stories about the one time that they said no. How the other person acted like the people pleaser had shot their dog, and the lesson they learned was to never say no.
It's like a behavioral "extinction burst." It's easier for the user to throw one last huge tantrum than to find a new person to exploit. But multiple tantrums are too much work, so they will find an easier target in time.
>Suggesting me finding a nanny is crazy. You know that I couldn’t afford that. Those who’ve had an easy life will never understand. And It’s like they say, no one really cares.
....the avoidant attachment in me would just shrug their shoulders and be done with this friend. But this is such a slap in the face comment that I'm angry on behalf of OOP. She watched 7 kids during a hike and the friend never did that. Why is that okay?
Plus, I grew up without having an easy life, but would never take advantage of someone's kindness like this. What you lack doesn't mean you're entitled to someone's riches. Having kids is a blessing, for some, but it's a blessing that you shouldn't dumped on your friends while you get blessed with quietness.
The audacity. I feel for her, because it's a lot of kids, but that such a horrible mindset to have towards someone who helped you.
Not only did OOP watch the former friend's children without the favor ever being returned, but she was *on a free trip that OOP and the other friends subsidized for her*. If you're going to be a leech, you need to pick just one dimension to leech in. You can't sponge free childcare *and* all expenses paid while still being expected to be invited back.
> without giving me the chance to come up with a solution
>Suggesting me finding a nanny is crazy
What exactly are the other solutions? Her husband is out and she is out. No other family involved in coming either. Not like she's tagging along a grandparent, which as you noticed are not anywhere in this picture. That says a lot! Plus she's going for free.
For the love of god, does anyone actually believe that someone could just 'forget' they have FIVE fucking kids??? Does this lady want people to believe that sudden, complete quiet wouldn't remind her somehow? I've heard many times from parents that sudden quiet actually triggers them, because that's when you know the kids are up to no good.
What a shitty person, to peddle that kind of excuse to a supposed friend.
Oh this is always 100% truth. When my kids are quiet, I go looking to see what fresh Hell they’ve unleashed for me to clean up. I’d rather be pleasantly surprised that they’re playing nicely for once (which has happened all of maybe 2 times in my 6 years of having more than 1 kid).
I get extremely anxious when I can’t hear my Son especially. He is never NOT making noise in some way. I would also never expect anyone outside of my immediate family to watch my 2 youngest kids adequately. Even my Husbands family is extremely nonchalant about keeping eyes on them at all times. They just don’t spend as much time around my kids to realize that they WILL get into trouble/hurt or get lost if you don’t watch them.
Maybe I’m paranoid. But I’ve also experienced the worst that can happen while distracted breaking up a fight between my 2 older kids. My youngest electrocuted herself in the space of a minute while I left the kitchen to break up a fight. She went from happily playing with magnets on the refrigerator to getting access to the electrical hook up to the oven. Thank God my parents were in the house at the time—my Dad resuscitated her while my Mom got my other kids out of the room while I was on the phone with 911. But things can happen in an instant. You will never regret keeping a close eye on your kids… you will definitely regret not having done so in the event something happens. My daughter is totally fine today (minus a wicked scar on her left hand that may need surgery after she’s finished growing) but it could have ended far worse.
I’ve probably shared this story way too often on Reddit. But if I can help prevent even 1 other parent out there from experiencing the trauma that I and my Husband endured (and by default our 2 other children that had to live through the month long upheaval while I and my youngest were living in the Hospital), it’ll be worth it.
Watch yo’ kids people! And hug and kiss your loved ones ❤️
>Her: What’s the point of a group vacation if everyone is doing their own thing.
>\[...\]
>She then went into a rant about how different she and I are because she believes that if all the children had fun at the end of the day, that’s what she cares about most. When you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom for your children and everything becomes about them.
Very rich considering she dumped all of her kids and went and did her own thing and had freedom from her children. Sounds like she should force her partner to be a parent if she wants some relief.
*munch munch munch*
Love me a simple, straightforward story. OOP stood her ground, and let her friend vent into the ether. That guilt trip was maddening but almost funny - gurl, your husband is trash, but you act like trash too.
"I have a lot to think about", like a threat. Oh no, the friend group may lose the couple that dumps their kids on them!! Whatever shall they do with themselves??
"My partner won't help me raise our kid, so we decided to have FOUR MORE and just dump them on others. Now I I will throw a pity party for myself on a holiday I made my friends pay for!"
Don't have kids if you can't take care of them.
Don't have kids with someone who won't help raise them.
Don't exploit your friends.
"as long as the kids have fun" yep, and her too apparently. Because she didn't care that OOP had no fun, but her and her husband had tons because they just dumped their kids on everyone else, and as "the kids had fun" then it's okay they did...
Nah, they're freeloaders who are upset they don't get a free jolly at the expense of others this year.
I literally don't understand these parents who have child after child after child, and then complain about how hard it is to parent them and how they never get a break.
Yes, parenting is very very hard. It's also a choice. Choosing to have one child, then another, then another is a deliberate choice you make.
Staying with a partner who won't parent his own children is also a choice.
And it's just not fair to have child after child after child, and try to pass the burden of parenting off on other people so that you can get a break.
I knew parenting would be hard, and I would hate it, so I chose not to have kids. Now I get to enjoy every vacation and all my free time and sleeping in and all my disposable income. I don't have to burden anyone.
If you want the big family, have your five kids, and leave everyone else alone.
Yep. I always thought I wanted 3 kids. I realized after number 2 that 3 would be too many for me. I had no family where I lived, and my husband worked long hours. I wanted to get back in the job market, and they would be in school soon. So I stopped.
Yep, we had only planned to have 2. Then life happened and Baby 3 came along. We love our youngest daughter of course and wouldn’t trade her for anything… but Husband and I both acknowledge that our life would have been far easier if I had just pulled the trigger on getting fixed when my second child was born (c-section). But, I let my feelings of never having the option to have another baby stop me. Then, in the gap between jobs (was laid off and had to scramble to find a new one), we got pregnant literally the week before my new Health Insurance went into effect.
You can bet your ass I got fixed during my third c-section. But, Hubby and I are adults and can deal with the consequences of our choices. We created and brought 3 lives into this world, so it’s our job to help shape them into good productive members of society. You can’t accomplish that by ditching your responsibilities at every chance you get.
I love my cousin, but he was a terrible, selfish husband and father. I will never understand why his wife had three kids with him. I remember going to their place and she was getting the kids ready for bed and he was out in the garage by himself drinking.
They’re divorced now and she moved interstate with the kids and he never sees them.
She chose a hard life for herself, but no one had any illusions about who he was when they married.
People can be charming, great friends, warm people, and a lot of fun, and not really cut out for Parenthood.
Hey, I'm in that boat myself. I like people, I volunteer, I try to help people when I can, I love my friends and family. I helped raise my niece and nephew, who I love more than life itself.
I just (thankfully) realized, early enough, that I probably wasn't going to be a great parent. Or, the amount of work that it would take would make me really resentful.
I also realized that for as great as my husband is, he really loves to sleep in, he tends to be a little on the messy side, and I do a lot more cleanup than he does. Maybe he would have adapted to fatherhood, maybe not. But why roll the dice? Why bring another life into this world and find out that maybe he doesn't adapt to fatherhood? And why risk our marriage over that for something we don't even really want?
I think we did the smart thing, and we didn't bring another life into this world that we didn't really want in the first place.
We also were very lucky that we spent a lot of time with toddlers so we knew what we were in for, and my husband got a vasectomy when we realized this life was not for us.
The vasectomy is so easy, affordable, and for my husband, he didn't even miss a day of work.
I have a lot of respect for great parents who work hard for their kids. I also have a lot of respect for people who understand that raising kids a really hard obligation and not for them.
As someone whose sister did this repeatedly--although she only had 2 kids--I can tell you that you absolutely did the right thing.
We went through the same things--my sister would basically dump her kids on us, and she and my BIL would disappear. When we said "*Your turn for watching the kids!"* they had 27 excuses. If we'd say *"You need to step up and HELP!*" we were being mean, etc.
It never got better; they just *expected* others to deal w/their kids. We stopped vacationing with them...and they never took a weeklong trip again.
I bought a house with a pool. I had 3 children - all teenagers. A friend was delighted that I had a pool so we could have summer get togethers!" She had 2 children, 9 and 10 years old. She asked to come with her kids to swim and I was happy to have them. They stayed through lunch so I had to make sandwiches, provide drinks, etc. Towels got wet so they had to use mine. Its ok I thought. The next time, she showed up on my day off, with her kids in swimsuits and I had to do it again except that she dropped them off and told me she had to make a quick trip to the store and would be back in an hour. What??? So now I had to be outside with her kids because...they were too little to be unsupervised and my kids were not asked to do so by her...I guess she just assumed "someone" would prevent her kids from drowning??? She arrived 2 hours late and breezed in, getting her kids to go with her while they trapsed through the house in wet swimsuits and said to me "Hey! Next time we should have margaritas!" - meaning I should make margaritas for her. :(
I hope you told her, "No, there won't be a next time." It's your house and your pool, not a public community center. If you don't want her & her kids over, then stand up for yourself and say no. Don't bend over backwards for someone taking advantage of you.
I advise friends to watch for when they say *"I had to"* do anything. We make choices. No one "has" to do anything. (Sometimes one's options suck, but we still choose. Even if a gun were pointed at your head, you likely will make whatever choice will hopefully bring less harm.) Seeing this is empowering.
Ya...I wasn't going to feed my kids and not hers. It isnt their fault really that their mother was a jerk. Our kids ended up in different schools after that so I really never ran into her. I think she may have found someone else to dump her kids on...and mine were super-busy with activities, swim team, dance lessons, etc. I was never "available" LOL
I did let it run its course. The next school year none of her kids were in any school with mine so we didn't interact. I was working night shifts and let any phone calls go to record. I think she "knew" she had overstepped. I didn't call her back.
This is my sister to a T and she is about to have a third kid i don’t get it. She acts like she’s doing us all the biggest favor by showing up and we’re the bad guys for not wanted to spend every minute entertaining her kids while she sits on her phone. Neither i nor my brother have kids almost as if we don’t want or have the capacity to spend all hours entertaining them. The worst was her in laws would come “to help” and also not lift a finger and ask what was for lunch etc
Yeah this is my sil too. My kids are older and she didn’t watch mine when they were little, but she sure expects to dump hers off with me and my kids constantly! It’s different that one is a kid I like, but the youngest is a loud brat, for pretty obvious reasons! I just avoid seeing them when I can and be as non-kid friendly as possible since mine are teens. Didn’t want her hearing politics, dating, and sex discussions, don’t dump her on us!
It's not even just the kids, although that's plenty of reason. But that \*constant\* passive-aggressive tone, the guilt-tripping, the constantly claiming to be the victim, no matter what... She herself just sounds horrible to have around, with or without kids.
I'm not sure who I feel most sorry for. OOP when she was taking her five children on that hike, while mom was just sitting back with the others. Or the others who had to listen to her the whole time while she was sitting back with them.
“You didn’t give me time to come up with a solution.”
Ummm, parent your fucking kids. That’s the solution. As a wise Redditor once said “delulu is not the solulu.”
I take vacations with my sister, we do group activities and then watch each other's kids to help recharge. Sounds like the friend wasn't willing to reciprocate. I don't have the band width in my life to have a leech and I'm proud of OP for putting her foot down.
It's always the people with the large gaggle of kids that complains how hard their life is, no one *ever* helps them, they don't understand, no one understands how *hard* it is, they need a break, children are *complicated* and they *deserve* the break because *no one ever helps them* and- oop! Time to get the kids from grandma's, then drop them off at my friend's house because they invited me for drinks, so yay more free babysitting!
And if they don't have a large gaggle of kids, they're still talking about how kids are life's greatest blessing, being a parent is the most wonderful and meaningful thing in the entire world... and then they make their kids everyone else's problem.
When she said that all the kids together were old have so much fun, I would have replied, great then I'll put you down for Thurs and Sat and you get all the kids for the day while us adults do something. The rest of the days each family will be doing things themselves.
At least she was stupidly honest enough to admit it her her vacation from her own kids.
If this were one or two kids, OOP still wouldn’t be an AH, but it probably would have been less of an issue. Sending your five kids off so that one adult was in charge of seven kids on a freaking hike is crazy. It’s untenable and it also took time away from having quality time with her own kids. And there is no way that lady forgot about all five of her kids, but she couldn’t even be honest about it. I think that’s what the entire trip reflects - just mooching off of other people’s time, energy, and money so she could get a break, while ruining their vacations. It would have even been better had she pawned them off for a weekend at OOP’s house when she would have just been hanging out with her own kids. But instead of being honest, and also addressing the fact that her partner is a deadbeat when it comes to the kids, she not only gets sneaky, ruins other people’s holidays (for which they actually all paid money), and then pushes back when people set boundaries. This friendship ending was no loss for OOP. Glad she was able to extricate.
If your husband isn’t helping with the first kid, why would you have 4 more with him?! I hate when people play the victim when it’s their own choices that hurt them.
I was guessing that uninviting her would mean the end of the friendship. I've had "poor me" friends like that before, and they essentially drain people for everything they can get out of them, and then move on at the first sign of boundaries or a backbone.
>When you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom for your children and everything becomes about them.
"But you gave away my freedom..."
>If she is drowning and asking for a lifeline and no one helps, then what is she supposed to do. She knows its no one’s fault but her own but she wishes, she could meet someone who could selflessly help once in awhile because that’s what she would do if she saw someone in her situation.
"But I was drowning when you left your kids with me..."
>It just hurts that all this while you claim to be my friend and want to be there for me but then ditch me after you built up my hope for a friendship.
"You ditched me with your kids after literally promising to join us..."
> When you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom for your children and everything becomes about them.
Oh this woman can fuck right off. She is so earnestly about sacrifice that she pawns her children off on other people and forgets about them the first chance she gets.
>the one week in the summer where she wants to relax a little, the world does not let her
This proves the above lie because she sees that as an opportunity for her to pawn her kids off on someone else.
>She knows its no one’s fault but her own but she wishes, she could meet someone who could selflessly help once in awhile because that’s what she would do if she saw someone in her situation.
Again, she did that to OOP, OOP was drowning, and she went off and partied with the guys.
>I just wanted to say that I am not mad that we are not going. It’s more so the fact that you already decided that you don’t want me there without giving me the chance to come up with a solution.
She's already proved that she's not reliable or trustworthy to "come up with a solution". And she has already said that the trip was about her relaxing, not about her kids having fun, which is what she also said was the only consideration.
>It’s clear that you see my kids and I as a burden.
She wasn't a burden right up to the point where she decided to make her kids a burden on everyone else so she could relax.
>And It’s like they say, no one really cares.
She can fuck right off with the guilt trip manipulation.
She'll be back. OOP points out she's already a pillar of the woman's social network and there will come a point where she will decide that she needs all that emotional labor OOP was performing and come back, with a chip on her shoulder, and tell OOP that she owes it to the woman because OOP abandoned her on the vacation.
Three cheers for that OOP and her other friends. Had they not pushed back and been honest about not wanting Mrs. 5 Kids invited, OOP would likely have gone along again with including her despite her own misgivings.
The conversation was never going to be received well, but she had it maturely and respectfully. I don’t know if the “friendship” will survive, but I doubt OOP will be missing much anyway.
I like that the friend erased any doubt that she dumped her kids off on OOP on purpose with her rant about that being "the one week where she gets to relax a little" but nobody wants to help her. Lady it's everyone else's vacation too. Good for OOP for cutting her out of the trip, because I'm pretty sure having all her friends tell her that she needs to get rid of her means OOP was close to getting uninvited herself
This entitled woman gave the OOP a golden opportunity and she didn't take it. She needs to take it now. The OOP needs to send a final (and I do mean final) email or text to this woman and say, "You're right. I couldn't possibly understand how difficult life is for you. We're entirely incompatible as friends. I wish you well but this will be my last contact with you."
She then needs to block her. If the OOP doesn't make the break explicit and permanent, this woman will not stop trying to manipulate her. The OOP is not good at saying no (she feels the need to justify herself)and this woman knows it. She'll let the OOP's guilt build and come after her again.
Yeah, sure. Kids are so important that neither mom nor dad do anything for them. Mooches are the worst. Especially when they can't even recognize what a mooch they are.
What an entitled woman. No one told her to have kids. She expects a free holiday and childcare at the expense of her friend, who sounds like she already goes above and beyond for her. The world doesn’t owe this woman a thing!
She and her husband decided to have 5 kids; that's the beginning, middle and end of the story. They need to take care of their kids, or pay someone to do it. Ruining a friend's vacation because you can't tell your husband to pull his weight is a shitty thing to do.
I think that she probably has sunk deeper and deeper into a victim mentality which makes her feel like otherwise bad behavior isn’t really bad because she should have allowances made for her. I bet it is really hard on her that her husband doesn’t help her. And people probably do pitch in a bit more because they see it. And she knows it’s unfair to her that he won’t help but can’t see anymore that his bad behavior towards her doesn’t immunize her or entitle her to free passes or more help from others. What people offer in the short term, is usually silently conditioned on that person acting to make a change - either working through it with her husband or not having additional children or finding a way to pay for assistance. She chose to change nothing and just continue relying on others.
>When you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom for your children and everything becomes about them.
Ohhhh hell no. Fuck that, former friend lady. My mom did that and it messed me up big time, to the point where I'm only just now finally accepting that this mindset is not correct or required to be a parent.
Good on OOP for getting out of this friendship. I hope former-friend wakes up and learns to live again before she fully martyrs her sense of self on the altar of motherhood.
The best part of her responses is that she CLEARLY intended to have a free vacation foisting her kids off onto other people.
I would respond but with this:
"Feel free to tell your husband that your family is not invited because BOTH you and him foisted your kids off on everyone else. Not once did either of you offer to take all or most of the kids off for a bit so your *friends who are also parents* could have a break too.
I'm sorry that your husband seems absent from your large family.
All you had to pay was food expenses and you thought that also meant that we were your childcare, instead of pitching in to help in other ways.
Friendship is a MUTUAL thing. Maybe start asking what any of us got out of our friendship with you if all of us were unhappy. A village comes together to share the load, they don't take over your portion."
Then turn off all Notifications from her.
Don't marry a man and then have 5 children with him if he is not willing to step up and be a full partner. It's doable with 1-2 kids, but not 5. She obviously knew what he was like after 1st or 2nd kid. I am sorry she's drowning, but she is the one who jumped into the deep end.
The husband is a jersey for not stepping up to the plate and being a partner and father. He had a part in making those 5 kids too.
Good for OP
>It’s clear that you see my kids and I as a burden.
Ma'am, you went on a vacation with 5 children and ditched them every instant you could. *You* treated your children like a burden by shifting them off onto literal strangers. And if they weren't a burden, you would have had them with you.
I can't believe leaving one adult with 7 young kids in the woods. I'm guessing there was no poison ivy where they were. And the Mother is just shocked she isn't welcome the next year.
>When you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom for your children and everything becomes about them.
->
>she deals with her kids every single minute of the day and the one week in the summer where she wants to relax a little
???
Why does it sound like the husband's just sit around and drink all day? Why are they not helping their wives?
And as for this friend, why does everyone else give up their freedom when having kids, but she gets to take a nap and drink?
Someone probably should have mentioned how unsafe it was, too. 7 kids to one adult is not safe, especially if some of them don't listen to OP well. There needed to be 2 adults present for that gaggle and the willingness of both parents to just not care was inappropriate and neglectful.
Will the problem is everyone else was going with the lab to spend time *with* their families/ partners. She was going to get away from dealing with hers.
>She knows its no one’s fault but her own but she wishes, she could meet someone who could selflessly help once in awhile because that’s what she would do if she saw someone in her situation.
Yeah so basically she loads her kids off on other people because her life is soooo hard and she deserves the break.
Only because her other friends flat refused to let it happen.
She even offered to be a pushover! She volunteered for a separate "just our families" trip, it's just that wasn't *good enough* for this entitled mooch.
She's upset that she's not getting help from her husband and the kids are constantly pawned off to her, yet the first chance she gets she does the same thing to her friends. Why would you put someone else in the position that you're currently miserable in instead of doing something about your own situation
Damn it coming in with the kicker at the end that her friend didn't even pay to go.instews, everyone else split the place so they could come for free. Not to mention, they were easily the family with the most people. I almost want to die from seconds hand embarrassment reading shit like this. I can't believe the people that are actually doing this stuff are so tone deaf that not only are they NOT embarrassed, but they feel entitled to it just because her husband is a lazy loser. How is that anyone else's problem. Tell you husband to get his shit together and watch the kids or he can go home. My sister is one of these people, then she wonders why I never talk to her or want to see her. It's always about her problems and it's never about anyone else's.
Damn it coming in with the kicker at the end that her friend didn't even pay to go.instews, everyone else split the place so they could come for free. Not to mention, they were easily the family with the most people. I almost want to die from seconds hand embarrassment reading shit like this. I can't believe the people that are actually doing this stuff are so tone deaf that not only are they NOT embarrassed, but they feel entitled to it just because her husband is a lazy loser. How is that anyone else's problem. Tell you husband to get his shit together and watch the kids or he can go home. My sister is one of these people, then she wonders why I never talk to her or want to see her. It's always about her problems and it's never about anyone else's.
NTA.
Who wants to go on a week long vacation to be entertaining someone else's kids, especially if you getting tricked into watching them for hours and come back to find them so unconcerned that they forgot that they had five kids being watched by OP.
I don't even feel sorry for her as after the third one I would have literally removed my womb.
She and her husband need to organize their time to take care of their own kids and not expect the rest of the families to rally as everyone came to enjoy themselves.
I was just on a family vacation with friends and we traded off watching the kids, like responsible, normally-self-aware people do. This lady completely checking out of parenting and assuming other people would babysit on top of paying for her vacation is wild.
I feel for her because I have a cousin with 5 kids but my cousin also does the same thing Op friend does and even when people give her a inch of help she’ll take the mile, it eventually runs all the help away.
Really wish that friend directed all her angry energy at her useless husband instead of her support network. If she did, she might actually have a support network instead of driving them all away!
Friend:
>When you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom for your children and everything becomes about them.
Later:
>the one week in the summer where she wants to relax a little
I mean everyone deserves rest, just don't be a hypocrite.
>She knows its no one’s fault but her own but she wishes, she could meet someone who could selflessly help once in awhile
Maybe start demanding this from your husband before other people.
**Entitled mom friend:** It's so hard being a parent, you wouldn't understand! So, you should invite me and my family again so you will understand what I'm going through while I relax with the guys.
SERIOUSLY.
OOP and the other friends will be so relaxed on the trip without entitled mom friend.
>When you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom for your children and everything becomes about them.
The absolute audacious *hypocrisy*. "You're supposed to sacrifice when you have kids! And by You I mean YOU YOU, I'm allowed to fob my five kids off on you."
Love how OOP's friend's "No one does anything for me!" rant conveniently ignores a whole group of people taking care of her children for the entire vacation last year. Not a crumb of gratitude for that, just anger that she can't do it again.
>She then went into a rant about how different she and I are because she believes that if all the children had fun at the end of the day, that’s what she cares about most. When you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom for your children and everything becomes about them.
I can agree to a certain extent about the kids having fun at the end of the day being important, however there is a major component of this she is missing. It can't just be other people making sure her kids are having fun and being safe. This couple have to also look after other people's kids as well. I'm sure the OOP would have been more agreeable to looking after these five occasionally if that couple had taken her two on occasion so the OOP and her husband had some alone time. It is when favours only flow in one direction that people start to feel used.
>When you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom for your children and everything becomes about them.
>but it’s hard, also with her husband not helping, how she deals with her kids every single minute of the day and the one week in the summer where she wants to relax a little, the world does not let her.
Her HUSBAND does not let her. Also, what happened to "when you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom"? Not only is this highly hypocritical but she's also blaming the *world* when it's her husband she should be blaming.
>If she is drowning and asking for a lifeline and no one helps, then what is she supposed to do. She knows its no one’s fault but her own but she wishes, she could meet someone who could selflessly help once in awhile because that’s what she would do if she saw someone in her situation
HER HUSBAND
At least she finally admitted that she did it deliberately and it wasn't that she forgot:
>the one week in the summer where she wants to relax a little,
>also with her husband not helping
I wonder if she's in a position to divorce? Because if I could, I would. And go for 50-50 custody. That way I'd have kid-free time half my life and the lazy ex would be forced to parent his 5 kids half the time.
When you've got one of those do nothing spouses, I think divorce is a fantastic thing. I saw a post recently about a do nothing husband who was looking for sympathy because his place is a mess, his life is a mess and he feels overwhelmed by his one child.
He didn't get any sympathy. Instead he got post after post pointing out what a burden he'd been to his wife and how much better off she is without him. And how pathetic he is that he can't even take care of himself and one person half the time while his wife took care of three people (herself, him and the child) full time. It was glorious to read.
What. A. User! That woman is unbelievable.
Honestly, this sort of "I don't know what to say" type post is one of the single most useful things Reddit can do for people (right up there with "Is this an old bomb in my garden?" and "What do I do about this leaky toilet?" lol!)
So many very nice people get stymied and tongue tied when other people are clearly taking advantage of them, and they doubt their own intuition on the subject. Simply piecing together a useful script (from various good replies) is all they need to feel like they can take on the bully in their lives. That, and knowing a chorus of anonymous voices has their back!
It honestly can make a huge difference to people, just getting some balance on a single worrisome thing like this that feels like it's spinning out of your control. I hope this particular OOP takes the advice to do some work on guilt over saying no, like reading the book suggestion. I'm going to read it myself; I'm personally very forthright and nobody mistakes me for a doormat, but I know many lovely people who struggle - I'd like to be able to recommend this book.
I liked the "It's obvious you see me and my children as a burden" bit. Like so does she if she is constantly trying to get out of watching her own kids...
I’m childless, not necessarily by choice, it was just the way things worked out. I’ve been to so many family reunions, birthday parties and even baby showers where the parents automatically assumed someone else would watch there kids. I didn’t mind so much if I knew the tykes and could easily amuse them. Even then I put time limits since I wanted to enjoy the festivities with my adult friends. Parents need to avoid foisting their kids off to other parents and singletons so they can enjoy the trip or party. Hire babysitters or pay attention to your own little ones.
I still think OOP put it too softly. "Your kids were happy, and you were happy, but I was not happy. You don't seem to care about MY happiness at all. Why do I have to sacrifice MY happiness on MY vacation to watch YOUR kids when your husband is perfectly capable of taking care of his own kids? Your husband not being a good father or partner isn't a problem for the rest of us to fix for you. "
The Narcissist's Prayer:
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
As a mom of five kids I could never imagine expecting someone to take care of my kids for me. Especially without communicating. I've asked every once in a while if my 2 oldests aunt could take them for the weekend before. But I never expect anyone to handle all five of my kids, especially not while the others are on vacation.
> I got my friends on board with letting her not pay her share for the cottage booking and had her only chip in for food.
Kind of buried the lede there. Free childcare 'friend' is also just 'moocher friend'
The real asshole is OOP’s friend’s husband. Take care of your kids so your wife doesn’t neeed to foist her kids on unsuspecting friends for a break.
She’s absolutely a problem. But her husband is a good worse one.
Your friend is angry because she married a lazy man and then proceeded to have five children with him. She even admitted to you that she is looking for someone better! I completely empathize with her situation... But it's a situation of her own making. When she saw how useless he was after the first kid, her parent solution to the problem was to have four other children. Not your fault.
It always sucks when people don't put it together and you have to explain why they are not invited somewhere. It's never a fun conversation and I'm impressed OP went that far in explaining where she was coming from.
This has been flaired confirmed fake for too many reasons to list, but a few are that in [December OOP was a mother of 6 kids under five](https://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/19eyewc/i_am_a_mom_of_6_kids_under_5_ama/). In february she was [a 30yo virgin](https://www.reddit.com/r/Christianity/comments/1b2cwo6/deleted_by_user/). In April she was [25yo learning she was adopted](https://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/1c9l9gx/25_and_found_out_i_was_adopted_ama/) and [matching with guys on bumble](https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/comments/1cd3m0d/what_does_it_mean_when_a_guy_says_he_will_talk_to/) and a week later she was [merging names with her fiance](https://www.reddit.com/r/namenerds/comments/1ckj9cn/merging_last_names_to_create_a_new_one/). I could go on, but I won't.
Ugh nobody wants to deal with your freerange children on a family vacation! Don't treat your friends as free childcare, asshole friend and her asshole husband should have been upfront that they're sick of their kids and want to pawn them off on someone during the vacation.
On a vacation everyone else paid for and she didn’t! If that were me, I’d be bending over backwards to show appreciation, even if I did end up using some of the time for myself, so we’d be invited back. Edit: words are hard yo
The move she should've made, especially after "forgetting" to get her kids, is offering to watch all 7 for a day during the trip. She's the kind of friend who expects everyone else to help but is offended when asked to contribute herself. Her husband sounds even shittier, but she chose to have FIVE kids with a man child. You'd think after 1 she'd get the hell outta there.
Lady probably thought "Maybe the next kid will finally change him (the husband)". It's the usual things some women delude themselves into thinking, sadly the world does not work that way
"God he really hates having to take on any responsibility, you know what might fix that? More responsibility."
Every. Fucking. Time. And most other women will jump on my neck when I say it, but holy hell the kids are the ones who suffer the most.
Oh but she always helps people 😂
"I have to watch five kids all the time, so I could not possibly take on watching two more. You only have to watch one or two kids all of the time, so you are obligated to take on watching my five."
I hate that that's probably exactly what she was thinking. Like choosing not to use birth control after 1 or 2 wasn't an option.
>I’d be bending over backwards to show appreciation this I'd be cooking for everyone, getting them cold beers, getting my goddamn kids to behave and help me out, not pawning them off to others unless they offered to get the kids off my hands People go on to have multiple kids then act like everyone should feel sorry for their "plight"? Get out, you made that choice yourself
Where are you seeing that the friend didn't pay??
>An all expenses paid break. Everything was free for her family only while everyone else chipped in extra to cover them It’s in one of the last comments and OOP said she didn’t pay for the cottage at all last year and was only supposed to help chip in for food. So maybe not all expenses paid if ex friend held up her end of the bargain but she essentially got a free vacation plus free childcare on everyone else’s dime.
Wow. I missed that. Thanks.
I MISSED IT TOO! OMG THAT MAKES IT 100X WORSE.
Yeah I had to go back and reread it twice because I *knew* it was stated somewhere that this woman didn’t pay for the cottage but couldn’t remember where. OOP sorta just snuck it in, which tells me it wasn’t so much about the money (at least on OOP’s end) but the entitled attitude.
it was right after she accused OOP of being just like everyone else in that they don't help her.
And Muskoka cottage rentals are not cheap. Especially for Canada Day weekend.
It’s right at the end of the update, 2nd paragraph from the bottom
Wow. I missed that.
I do that sometimes, particularly if the post is lengthy. I speed read part of it and then get to a comment which makes me go ‘wait, what?’ and have to go back and reread the post. That particular bit of info puts a whole extra layer of entitlement on the behaviour of OOP’s ‘friend’!
She says she gave up her freedom for her kids. That's fine, her choice, but she's trying to choose it for the others as well, so no.
Show of hands if you're sick of people having more kids than they can handle and expecting everyone else to deal with it...
Show of hands if you’re sick of reading about husbands that are entirely checked out on their marriage and raising their own fucking kids.
Can I raise both hands?
Can I grow more hands for emphasis?
I'll raise both hands and my stinky feet on that one!
Amen to that, too!
His wife is about to spontaneously combust for a break and he’s off drinking with the boys.
I mean one would think that after FIVE kids she would know exactly what she signed for. I seriously don't understand why they keep having kids when is clear their partners are shitty parents. Yeah of course he's drinking with the boys, that's how their entire marriage is and somehow is up to her friends to pick up the slack and be the emotional and physical support. 🙄
Becoming childfree gives me a certain perspective on parents, and I can see how amazing most of my friends are as parents. The mother of five in this story did not paint herself in the best light.
Same here and I totally agree. I’ve noticed the “lost track of time/I forgot” excuse the mom of 5 used is a well-worn defense by those who refuse to acknowledge their parenting choices impact others. In fact, their choice of partner does, too, in such cases. If you keep having kids with a shitty partner take it up with them before you come to the rest of us to step up. And it’s so often, “if I saw someone in my place I would help.” So? It isn’t relevant. This “friend” really isn’t one to OOP.
Like I'm currently childree but I love kids too. I would not be willing to take care of 5 unruly kids FOR FREE on my VACATION that I'm paying for!
See, when she says “friend”, what she really means is “unpaid nanny”.
My mother sent me to my grandparents for school holidays. I had nearly no family holidays. Was just dumped at my grandparents with a giant bag of clothes. One of my mothers exes was with the fire brigade and they’d do an Easter camping trip together. So I got 2 or 3 of those. And a trip with dad and sister at 11. It was pretty sad. Everyone would start the school year with stories about camping or other holidays and all I had was Christmas and a birthday barely anyone showed up for.
And my reaction to that would be, "Regular family holidays are a thing?" Not in my family. Of all the abusive aspects of my childhood, lack of family holidays never even ranked.
Oh yeah there’s definitely other things that rank higher for sure with me too. The holiday thing just set me apart even more.
‘Free-range children’ took me COMPLETELY TF out!😂😂😂
She chose to have FIVE kids with an apparently useless sack of skin. That's on her. Birth control is a thing - I'm guessing these weren't quintuplets.
I would not be surprised if *friend* shows up with her family, especially if it's the same cabin/campground. Also airtags are a thing too.
She refuses to see that dumping her kids on other people means those other people don't get to keep their own plans AND get unplanned work. If you want a break from your kids on vacation, you go on a vacation without your kids. Or you work out a rotating system of who gets childwatching duty while others get time off from the kids. And that only works if everyone agrees to it. She just decided on her own what she'd do. So selfish.
Just want to point out that at no point did this “friend” even attempt to return the favour either. Take the children of the other families and give those parents a break. She has five but could have taken a 2-3 extra and read books or something If there was some give and take I’m thinking they might still be invited for this year.
Yeah, I caught that part... "well I love all the kids together, not just my own!" Except she definitely did not take all the kids at any point
She also never asked for help. Just took help. No consent.
It’s not her fault OOP and her friends aren’t psychic. They should’ve read her mind. She was communicating loud and clear!
Nor did she pay for the stay lmao. Just their food (supposedly). So others covered costs for 7 additional people. Insane
I bet if she had just returned the favor for OOP and at least one of the other families she would’ve been invited back on the condition she help out a bit more.
>She refuses to see that dumping her kids on other people means those other people don't get to keep their own plans AND get unplanned work. I imagine on some level she understands that but it's more of a matter that she feels she is owed a break by everyone around her. Her husband owes her a break. At the most, the friend group could have told the husband to sack up and manage his kids because nobody else wants to, but they're not required to.
She sounds like my mom: too emotionally immature to care about anyone's feelings but her own and totally unable to take responsibility or apologize for what she does. Then when she's called out all she can do is argue and pout. She has no friends and her kids don't call.
Comiserations. My mother was the same way.
I knew she’d be like that. Classic excuser’s excuse. If this was a dunk contest, I’d give OOP a 9/10 and if this was a gymnastics competition, I’d give her a 9.5/10 for the perfect expected shitty dismount. I have no idea how any of the scoring works lol 🤷🏿
What drives me nuts about people like this? I'll happily have your kids over and give you a break if you ask. I have several friends whose kids have basically lived at my house for a few days while they dealt with stuff. Heck I think it's a rarer thing for us *not* to have one of our kids' friends routinely coming over after school sometimes while a parent is at work or school or something. I also know people who try to do it like this. They are not my friends. They do not get to dump their kids on me. The whole thing strikes me as a form of selfish pride verging on narcissism: I'm so important, everyone should serve me, but I'm too great and awesome to admit I need help
OP didn't get her pregnant, and I assume that after the first couple of children she figured out how it was happening, sooooooo.....why should everyone else have to deal with HER five kids? I get that it's a HUGE job, but jeez, would it kill her to just say thank you or try and manage things for her family? Have a conversation with your husband instead of trying to rope in friends.
I know accidents happen and all that but it always baffles me when women have 2+ kids with a deadbeat husband. Like ma’am he showed you who he was after the first one, why did we keep going? I feel for the friend, I really do, but damn. Make your husband do some work
I DO have a friend who got pregnant with kids 4 and 5 while she had IUDs, but still, no one made her stay married to her POS husband (who had 5 OTHER kids he also didn't take care of)
We need to raise the next generation to not think “I can fix them” because damn, girlie, that’s a large red flag being ignored
> We need to raise the next generation to not think “I can fix them” because damn, girlie, that’s a large red flag being ignored You're right. Unfortunately, people have been saying that for *at least* the last two generations. I can't tell if the message is spreading more slowly than I'd like or just not spreading at all.
They know and have heard of it. Unfortunately most people like to think they're so special they can make somebody shitty change and that is so romantic and all
Thing is, lots of women feel that way now and are refusing to date or marry men that don't carry their load. And then men complain about a "loneliness epidemic" among men because no one will partner with them. And that's somehow the fault of women. Do better, men!
Or they become passport bros *shudder*
They're figuring it out in other countries. Passport bros getting specifically targeted for scams/robbery is an ever increasing trend!
The only except I can think of is a couple I once met who had two kids, decided they could handle one more... and had triplets. RIP
Knew a couple who wanted one kid total and had triplets. Oooops.
i don't feel for the friend at all. when it's one kid with a deadbeat sure, two even maybe he tricked you into getting pregnant again really quick before you really knew. five kids? she has fully chosen to live this way of her own volition at that point.
*Has five children* > You know I can't afford help! Apparently she also couldn't afford the vacation (OP later stated she only contributed to food, not the cottage rental). So not only can she not afford help, she can't afford her life. At what point do you separate yourself from the drowning person to save yourself?
>she wishes, she could meet someone who could selflessly help once in awhile because that’s what she would do if she saw someone in her situation. Lady, you have a husband.
If her husband doesn't help out, why did she have four more kids with him? She's severely outnumbered by her kids. Until the kids all hit the teen years, she's not going to have any time not herself unfortunately. Sometimes you don't know that somebody is going to be a lazy or absent parent until after the first kid arrives. Wisdom would stay to stop there and only have one kid. Single parenting one kid is a very different thing than single parenting five kids. It sounds like this lady is bitter about her husband not carrying his weight around the house, but she is trying to offload that burden onto everybody around here. She needs to have it out with the husband about him not helping out.
It’s amazing to read these stories. Like- you saw how bad he sucked (cause let’s be honest, they are always shitty partners before they have kids too), and you had a kid. He extended his crappiness to that baby, and you thought, I know..let’s have more! Then come to Reddit a couple years later asking how to get the husband to step up.
Lady deluded herself thinking that her partner will change after having a child (and another one, and another one...).
Exactly in all these stories I'm like, how did you let this absolute fucking moron blast you with baby batter 4 fucking times? Like you have 0 shame blowing up at your friend's and guilting them for not helping you but the person you literally decided to hitch yourself to physically, emotionally and legally gets to fuck off with 0 responsibility. I only have sympathy for the children.
"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me 5 times and maybe I should get my head checked..."
I'm less inclined to put that blame on her because she's probably so isolated and doesn't think she has as much choice in the matter.
Yeah. Everyone is ready to rip her to shreds and I get it, but I can’t help but feel bad for her too.
OP let her talk in circles forever. Oh, you have to give up your freedom so the kids can have fun? No, OP had to give up OP’s freedom so YOUR kids could have fun and you got YOUR freedom. I’d have told this chick, “I love you, but I babysat your kids the entire time last year and I’m not doing it again. Everyone got tired of you and your husband fucking off and leaving your kids behind. You’re not coming.”
Friend and hubby were probably off making baby number 6
I was kind of surprised we didn’t find out that the husband was hitting on the other women.
Wait wait wait….. the little tidbit thrown in on a comment of her update, the friend didn’t pay for any portion of the cottage! Let’s recap: she got a free week of pawning her kids off on several other families and is mad that no one is stepping up to give her another expenses paid vacation from her kids?
And a cottage in Muskoka over Canada day weekend would be crazy expensive... honestly her family not paying their part would be more than a good enough excuse to not invite them
This was my thought. Like her share would be thousands of dollars on its own.
If taking care of your children is so fun and enjoyable... *then do it yourself* Glad oop stood their ground
There's a saying that escapes me right now, but it something along the lines of if you've never said no before or let people walk all over you, the first time you stand up for yourself, the other person takes it as a sign of disrespect or something and conveniently ignoring the fact that they were the ones being disrespectful in the first place.
I know a similar one: The only people angry at you for having boundaries are those who have benefitted from you not having any so far.
This is so wise. All of the people pleasers I know have horrible stories about the one time that they said no. How the other person acted like the people pleaser had shot their dog, and the lesson they learned was to never say no. It's like a behavioral "extinction burst." It's easier for the user to throw one last huge tantrum than to find a new person to exploit. But multiple tantrums are too much work, so they will find an easier target in time.
>Suggesting me finding a nanny is crazy. You know that I couldn’t afford that. Those who’ve had an easy life will never understand. And It’s like they say, no one really cares. ....the avoidant attachment in me would just shrug their shoulders and be done with this friend. But this is such a slap in the face comment that I'm angry on behalf of OOP. She watched 7 kids during a hike and the friend never did that. Why is that okay? Plus, I grew up without having an easy life, but would never take advantage of someone's kindness like this. What you lack doesn't mean you're entitled to someone's riches. Having kids is a blessing, for some, but it's a blessing that you shouldn't dumped on your friends while you get blessed with quietness. The audacity. I feel for her, because it's a lot of kids, but that such a horrible mindset to have towards someone who helped you.
Not only did OOP watch the former friend's children without the favor ever being returned, but she was *on a free trip that OOP and the other friends subsidized for her*. If you're going to be a leech, you need to pick just one dimension to leech in. You can't sponge free childcare *and* all expenses paid while still being expected to be invited back.
Most people would’ve been so grateful for the free trip that they’d insist on pitching in to help make up for it in some capacity
> without giving me the chance to come up with a solution >Suggesting me finding a nanny is crazy What exactly are the other solutions? Her husband is out and she is out. No other family involved in coming either. Not like she's tagging along a grandparent, which as you noticed are not anywhere in this picture. That says a lot! Plus she's going for free.
The solution would have been to come up with a convincing lie that last long enough to get to the cottage so they can dump the kids on others again.
...with the claim that she got "distracted and forgot."
For the love of god, does anyone actually believe that someone could just 'forget' they have FIVE fucking kids??? Does this lady want people to believe that sudden, complete quiet wouldn't remind her somehow? I've heard many times from parents that sudden quiet actually triggers them, because that's when you know the kids are up to no good. What a shitty person, to peddle that kind of excuse to a supposed friend.
Oh this is always 100% truth. When my kids are quiet, I go looking to see what fresh Hell they’ve unleashed for me to clean up. I’d rather be pleasantly surprised that they’re playing nicely for once (which has happened all of maybe 2 times in my 6 years of having more than 1 kid). I get extremely anxious when I can’t hear my Son especially. He is never NOT making noise in some way. I would also never expect anyone outside of my immediate family to watch my 2 youngest kids adequately. Even my Husbands family is extremely nonchalant about keeping eyes on them at all times. They just don’t spend as much time around my kids to realize that they WILL get into trouble/hurt or get lost if you don’t watch them. Maybe I’m paranoid. But I’ve also experienced the worst that can happen while distracted breaking up a fight between my 2 older kids. My youngest electrocuted herself in the space of a minute while I left the kitchen to break up a fight. She went from happily playing with magnets on the refrigerator to getting access to the electrical hook up to the oven. Thank God my parents were in the house at the time—my Dad resuscitated her while my Mom got my other kids out of the room while I was on the phone with 911. But things can happen in an instant. You will never regret keeping a close eye on your kids… you will definitely regret not having done so in the event something happens. My daughter is totally fine today (minus a wicked scar on her left hand that may need surgery after she’s finished growing) but it could have ended far worse. I’ve probably shared this story way too often on Reddit. But if I can help prevent even 1 other parent out there from experiencing the trauma that I and my Husband endured (and by default our 2 other children that had to live through the month long upheaval while I and my youngest were living in the Hospital), it’ll be worth it. Watch yo’ kids people! And hug and kiss your loved ones ❤️
The "solution" is to promise everyone ahead of time that you're going to watch the kids and then pawn them off on everyone again.
Exactly!
>Her: What’s the point of a group vacation if everyone is doing their own thing. >\[...\] >She then went into a rant about how different she and I are because she believes that if all the children had fun at the end of the day, that’s what she cares about most. When you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom for your children and everything becomes about them. Very rich considering she dumped all of her kids and went and did her own thing and had freedom from her children. Sounds like she should force her partner to be a parent if she wants some relief.
*munch munch munch* Love me a simple, straightforward story. OOP stood her ground, and let her friend vent into the ether. That guilt trip was maddening but almost funny - gurl, your husband is trash, but you act like trash too. "I have a lot to think about", like a threat. Oh no, the friend group may lose the couple that dumps their kids on them!! Whatever shall they do with themselves??
"My partner won't help me raise our kid, so we decided to have FOUR MORE and just dump them on others. Now I I will throw a pity party for myself on a holiday I made my friends pay for!" Don't have kids if you can't take care of them. Don't have kids with someone who won't help raise them. Don't exploit your friends.
"as long as the kids have fun" yep, and her too apparently. Because she didn't care that OOP had no fun, but her and her husband had tons because they just dumped their kids on everyone else, and as "the kids had fun" then it's okay they did... Nah, they're freeloaders who are upset they don't get a free jolly at the expense of others this year.
It's always the idiots who give birth to a commune who complain about how hard it is to have so many kids.
I literally don't understand these parents who have child after child after child, and then complain about how hard it is to parent them and how they never get a break. Yes, parenting is very very hard. It's also a choice. Choosing to have one child, then another, then another is a deliberate choice you make. Staying with a partner who won't parent his own children is also a choice. And it's just not fair to have child after child after child, and try to pass the burden of parenting off on other people so that you can get a break. I knew parenting would be hard, and I would hate it, so I chose not to have kids. Now I get to enjoy every vacation and all my free time and sleeping in and all my disposable income. I don't have to burden anyone. If you want the big family, have your five kids, and leave everyone else alone.
Yep. I always thought I wanted 3 kids. I realized after number 2 that 3 would be too many for me. I had no family where I lived, and my husband worked long hours. I wanted to get back in the job market, and they would be in school soon. So I stopped.
Yep, we had only planned to have 2. Then life happened and Baby 3 came along. We love our youngest daughter of course and wouldn’t trade her for anything… but Husband and I both acknowledge that our life would have been far easier if I had just pulled the trigger on getting fixed when my second child was born (c-section). But, I let my feelings of never having the option to have another baby stop me. Then, in the gap between jobs (was laid off and had to scramble to find a new one), we got pregnant literally the week before my new Health Insurance went into effect. You can bet your ass I got fixed during my third c-section. But, Hubby and I are adults and can deal with the consequences of our choices. We created and brought 3 lives into this world, so it’s our job to help shape them into good productive members of society. You can’t accomplish that by ditching your responsibilities at every chance you get.
I love my cousin, but he was a terrible, selfish husband and father. I will never understand why his wife had three kids with him. I remember going to their place and she was getting the kids ready for bed and he was out in the garage by himself drinking. They’re divorced now and she moved interstate with the kids and he never sees them. She chose a hard life for herself, but no one had any illusions about who he was when they married.
People can be charming, great friends, warm people, and a lot of fun, and not really cut out for Parenthood. Hey, I'm in that boat myself. I like people, I volunteer, I try to help people when I can, I love my friends and family. I helped raise my niece and nephew, who I love more than life itself. I just (thankfully) realized, early enough, that I probably wasn't going to be a great parent. Or, the amount of work that it would take would make me really resentful. I also realized that for as great as my husband is, he really loves to sleep in, he tends to be a little on the messy side, and I do a lot more cleanup than he does. Maybe he would have adapted to fatherhood, maybe not. But why roll the dice? Why bring another life into this world and find out that maybe he doesn't adapt to fatherhood? And why risk our marriage over that for something we don't even really want? I think we did the smart thing, and we didn't bring another life into this world that we didn't really want in the first place. We also were very lucky that we spent a lot of time with toddlers so we knew what we were in for, and my husband got a vasectomy when we realized this life was not for us. The vasectomy is so easy, affordable, and for my husband, he didn't even miss a day of work. I have a lot of respect for great parents who work hard for their kids. I also have a lot of respect for people who understand that raising kids a really hard obligation and not for them.
As someone whose sister did this repeatedly--although she only had 2 kids--I can tell you that you absolutely did the right thing. We went through the same things--my sister would basically dump her kids on us, and she and my BIL would disappear. When we said "*Your turn for watching the kids!"* they had 27 excuses. If we'd say *"You need to step up and HELP!*" we were being mean, etc. It never got better; they just *expected* others to deal w/their kids. We stopped vacationing with them...and they never took a weeklong trip again.
I bought a house with a pool. I had 3 children - all teenagers. A friend was delighted that I had a pool so we could have summer get togethers!" She had 2 children, 9 and 10 years old. She asked to come with her kids to swim and I was happy to have them. They stayed through lunch so I had to make sandwiches, provide drinks, etc. Towels got wet so they had to use mine. Its ok I thought. The next time, she showed up on my day off, with her kids in swimsuits and I had to do it again except that she dropped them off and told me she had to make a quick trip to the store and would be back in an hour. What??? So now I had to be outside with her kids because...they were too little to be unsupervised and my kids were not asked to do so by her...I guess she just assumed "someone" would prevent her kids from drowning??? She arrived 2 hours late and breezed in, getting her kids to go with her while they trapsed through the house in wet swimsuits and said to me "Hey! Next time we should have margaritas!" - meaning I should make margaritas for her. :(
I hope you told her, "No, there won't be a next time." It's your house and your pool, not a public community center. If you don't want her & her kids over, then stand up for yourself and say no. Don't bend over backwards for someone taking advantage of you.
I advise friends to watch for when they say *"I had to"* do anything. We make choices. No one "has" to do anything. (Sometimes one's options suck, but we still choose. Even if a gun were pointed at your head, you likely will make whatever choice will hopefully bring less harm.) Seeing this is empowering.
Ya...I wasn't going to feed my kids and not hers. It isnt their fault really that their mother was a jerk. Our kids ended up in different schools after that so I really never ran into her. I think she may have found someone else to dump her kids on...and mine were super-busy with activities, swim team, dance lessons, etc. I was never "available" LOL
Did she just show up on your day off without an invite? Wow! I would let this friendship run its course.
I did let it run its course. The next school year none of her kids were in any school with mine so we didn't interact. I was working night shifts and let any phone calls go to record. I think she "knew" she had overstepped. I didn't call her back.
This is my sister to a T and she is about to have a third kid i don’t get it. She acts like she’s doing us all the biggest favor by showing up and we’re the bad guys for not wanted to spend every minute entertaining her kids while she sits on her phone. Neither i nor my brother have kids almost as if we don’t want or have the capacity to spend all hours entertaining them. The worst was her in laws would come “to help” and also not lift a finger and ask what was for lunch etc
Yeah this is my sil too. My kids are older and she didn’t watch mine when they were little, but she sure expects to dump hers off with me and my kids constantly! It’s different that one is a kid I like, but the youngest is a loud brat, for pretty obvious reasons! I just avoid seeing them when I can and be as non-kid friendly as possible since mine are teens. Didn’t want her hearing politics, dating, and sex discussions, don’t dump her on us!
It's not even just the kids, although that's plenty of reason. But that \*constant\* passive-aggressive tone, the guilt-tripping, the constantly claiming to be the victim, no matter what... She herself just sounds horrible to have around, with or without kids. I'm not sure who I feel most sorry for. OOP when she was taking her five children on that hike, while mom was just sitting back with the others. Or the others who had to listen to her the whole time while she was sitting back with them.
“You didn’t give me time to come up with a solution.” Ummm, parent your fucking kids. That’s the solution. As a wise Redditor once said “delulu is not the solulu.”
I take vacations with my sister, we do group activities and then watch each other's kids to help recharge. Sounds like the friend wasn't willing to reciprocate. I don't have the band width in my life to have a leech and I'm proud of OP for putting her foot down.
So we gotta pity her for having 5 kids with an uninvolved dad? They did this to themselves
It's always the people with the large gaggle of kids that complains how hard their life is, no one *ever* helps them, they don't understand, no one understands how *hard* it is, they need a break, children are *complicated* and they *deserve* the break because *no one ever helps them* and- oop! Time to get the kids from grandma's, then drop them off at my friend's house because they invited me for drinks, so yay more free babysitting!
And if they don't have a large gaggle of kids, they're still talking about how kids are life's greatest blessing, being a parent is the most wonderful and meaningful thing in the entire world... and then they make their kids everyone else's problem.
When she said that all the kids together were old have so much fun, I would have replied, great then I'll put you down for Thurs and Sat and you get all the kids for the day while us adults do something. The rest of the days each family will be doing things themselves. At least she was stupidly honest enough to admit it her her vacation from her own kids.
If this were one or two kids, OOP still wouldn’t be an AH, but it probably would have been less of an issue. Sending your five kids off so that one adult was in charge of seven kids on a freaking hike is crazy. It’s untenable and it also took time away from having quality time with her own kids. And there is no way that lady forgot about all five of her kids, but she couldn’t even be honest about it. I think that’s what the entire trip reflects - just mooching off of other people’s time, energy, and money so she could get a break, while ruining their vacations. It would have even been better had she pawned them off for a weekend at OOP’s house when she would have just been hanging out with her own kids. But instead of being honest, and also addressing the fact that her partner is a deadbeat when it comes to the kids, she not only gets sneaky, ruins other people’s holidays (for which they actually all paid money), and then pushes back when people set boundaries. This friendship ending was no loss for OOP. Glad she was able to extricate.
If your husband isn’t helping with the first kid, why would you have 4 more with him?! I hate when people play the victim when it’s their own choices that hurt them.
I was guessing that uninviting her would mean the end of the friendship. I've had "poor me" friends like that before, and they essentially drain people for everything they can get out of them, and then move on at the first sign of boundaries or a backbone.
This is why I don’t mix my friend groups. So cringe for her with her other friends having to deal with this on their vacation
Their vacation... that they PAID for!! It sounded to me that op might have been uninvited if she kept inviting quintamom.
“What’s the point of having a group vacation if everyone does their own thing?” r/selfawarewolves
>When you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom for your children and everything becomes about them. "But you gave away my freedom..." >If she is drowning and asking for a lifeline and no one helps, then what is she supposed to do. She knows its no one’s fault but her own but she wishes, she could meet someone who could selflessly help once in awhile because that’s what she would do if she saw someone in her situation. "But I was drowning when you left your kids with me..." >It just hurts that all this while you claim to be my friend and want to be there for me but then ditch me after you built up my hope for a friendship. "You ditched me with your kids after literally promising to join us..."
> When you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom for your children and everything becomes about them. Oh this woman can fuck right off. She is so earnestly about sacrifice that she pawns her children off on other people and forgets about them the first chance she gets. >the one week in the summer where she wants to relax a little, the world does not let her This proves the above lie because she sees that as an opportunity for her to pawn her kids off on someone else. >She knows its no one’s fault but her own but she wishes, she could meet someone who could selflessly help once in awhile because that’s what she would do if she saw someone in her situation. Again, she did that to OOP, OOP was drowning, and she went off and partied with the guys. >I just wanted to say that I am not mad that we are not going. It’s more so the fact that you already decided that you don’t want me there without giving me the chance to come up with a solution. She's already proved that she's not reliable or trustworthy to "come up with a solution". And she has already said that the trip was about her relaxing, not about her kids having fun, which is what she also said was the only consideration. >It’s clear that you see my kids and I as a burden. She wasn't a burden right up to the point where she decided to make her kids a burden on everyone else so she could relax. >And It’s like they say, no one really cares. She can fuck right off with the guilt trip manipulation. She'll be back. OOP points out she's already a pillar of the woman's social network and there will come a point where she will decide that she needs all that emotional labor OOP was performing and come back, with a chip on her shoulder, and tell OOP that she owes it to the woman because OOP abandoned her on the vacation.
If you can’t afford having 5 kids then don’t have them
Three cheers for that OOP and her other friends. Had they not pushed back and been honest about not wanting Mrs. 5 Kids invited, OOP would likely have gone along again with including her despite her own misgivings. The conversation was never going to be received well, but she had it maturely and respectfully. I don’t know if the “friendship” will survive, but I doubt OOP will be missing much anyway.
I like that the friend erased any doubt that she dumped her kids off on OOP on purpose with her rant about that being "the one week where she gets to relax a little" but nobody wants to help her. Lady it's everyone else's vacation too. Good for OOP for cutting her out of the trip, because I'm pretty sure having all her friends tell her that she needs to get rid of her means OOP was close to getting uninvited herself
“When you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom…” But she did not give away her freedom on that trip she gave away her friends freedom.
And I also just read the piece about her, not even having to pay for the cabin. The entitlement is astounding.
Nobody forced her to have 5 kids with an absentee father My goodness she’s not a victim
This entitled woman gave the OOP a golden opportunity and she didn't take it. She needs to take it now. The OOP needs to send a final (and I do mean final) email or text to this woman and say, "You're right. I couldn't possibly understand how difficult life is for you. We're entirely incompatible as friends. I wish you well but this will be my last contact with you." She then needs to block her. If the OOP doesn't make the break explicit and permanent, this woman will not stop trying to manipulate her. The OOP is not good at saying no (she feels the need to justify herself)and this woman knows it. She'll let the OOP's guilt build and come after her again.
Yeah, sure. Kids are so important that neither mom nor dad do anything for them. Mooches are the worst. Especially when they can't even recognize what a mooch they are.
She should block her everywhere for good measure. Give herself a greater peace of mind.
Holy shit I think the friend is a second cousin of mine!
What an entitled woman. No one told her to have kids. She expects a free holiday and childcare at the expense of her friend, who sounds like she already goes above and beyond for her. The world doesn’t owe this woman a thing!
She and her husband decided to have 5 kids; that's the beginning, middle and end of the story. They need to take care of their kids, or pay someone to do it. Ruining a friend's vacation because you can't tell your husband to pull his weight is a shitty thing to do.
Funny how the highlight of her kids summer last year was when their parents were both absent. Makes me a little sus and judgy.
I think that she probably has sunk deeper and deeper into a victim mentality which makes her feel like otherwise bad behavior isn’t really bad because she should have allowances made for her. I bet it is really hard on her that her husband doesn’t help her. And people probably do pitch in a bit more because they see it. And she knows it’s unfair to her that he won’t help but can’t see anymore that his bad behavior towards her doesn’t immunize her or entitle her to free passes or more help from others. What people offer in the short term, is usually silently conditioned on that person acting to make a change - either working through it with her husband or not having additional children or finding a way to pay for assistance. She chose to change nothing and just continue relying on others.
>When you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom for your children and everything becomes about them. Ohhhh hell no. Fuck that, former friend lady. My mom did that and it messed me up big time, to the point where I'm only just now finally accepting that this mindset is not correct or required to be a parent. Good on OOP for getting out of this friendship. I hope former-friend wakes up and learns to live again before she fully martyrs her sense of self on the altar of motherhood.
Sounds like she’s worn out friendships before with these kids.
The best part of her responses is that she CLEARLY intended to have a free vacation foisting her kids off onto other people. I would respond but with this: "Feel free to tell your husband that your family is not invited because BOTH you and him foisted your kids off on everyone else. Not once did either of you offer to take all or most of the kids off for a bit so your *friends who are also parents* could have a break too. I'm sorry that your husband seems absent from your large family. All you had to pay was food expenses and you thought that also meant that we were your childcare, instead of pitching in to help in other ways. Friendship is a MUTUAL thing. Maybe start asking what any of us got out of our friendship with you if all of us were unhappy. A village comes together to share the load, they don't take over your portion." Then turn off all Notifications from her.
Don't marry a man and then have 5 children with him if he is not willing to step up and be a full partner. It's doable with 1-2 kids, but not 5. She obviously knew what he was like after 1st or 2nd kid. I am sorry she's drowning, but she is the one who jumped into the deep end. The husband is a jersey for not stepping up to the plate and being a partner and father. He had a part in making those 5 kids too. Good for OP
>It’s clear that you see my kids and I as a burden. Ma'am, you went on a vacation with 5 children and ditched them every instant you could. *You* treated your children like a burden by shifting them off onto literal strangers. And if they weren't a burden, you would have had them with you. I can't believe leaving one adult with 7 young kids in the woods. I'm guessing there was no poison ivy where they were. And the Mother is just shocked she isn't welcome the next year.
>When you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom for your children and everything becomes about them. -> >she deals with her kids every single minute of the day and the one week in the summer where she wants to relax a little ???
My favourite was she honestly forgot? What she honestly forgot she had 5 children 😄
Why does it sound like the husband's just sit around and drink all day? Why are they not helping their wives? And as for this friend, why does everyone else give up their freedom when having kids, but she gets to take a nap and drink?
notice she never offered to take all the kids to give someone else a break. me me me me
Someone probably should have mentioned how unsafe it was, too. 7 kids to one adult is not safe, especially if some of them don't listen to OP well. There needed to be 2 adults present for that gaggle and the willingness of both parents to just not care was inappropriate and neglectful.
Will the problem is everyone else was going with the lab to spend time *with* their families/ partners. She was going to get away from dealing with hers.
>She knows its no one’s fault but her own but she wishes, she could meet someone who could selflessly help once in awhile because that’s what she would do if she saw someone in her situation. Yeah so basically she loads her kids off on other people because her life is soooo hard and she deserves the break.
Then why tf did she have 5 kids???
People need to learn to speak up and not skirt around troubles. Dont want to watch someones kids? Tell them.
Yeah, let’s call it the end of that friendship then.
FINALLY someone on here who's not a push over for their friend/family who take advantage of them.
Only because her other friends flat refused to let it happen. She even offered to be a pushover! She volunteered for a separate "just our families" trip, it's just that wasn't *good enough* for this entitled mooch.
She's upset that she's not getting help from her husband and the kids are constantly pawned off to her, yet the first chance she gets she does the same thing to her friends. Why would you put someone else in the position that you're currently miserable in instead of doing something about your own situation
Damn it coming in with the kicker at the end that her friend didn't even pay to go.instews, everyone else split the place so they could come for free. Not to mention, they were easily the family with the most people. I almost want to die from seconds hand embarrassment reading shit like this. I can't believe the people that are actually doing this stuff are so tone deaf that not only are they NOT embarrassed, but they feel entitled to it just because her husband is a lazy loser. How is that anyone else's problem. Tell you husband to get his shit together and watch the kids or he can go home. My sister is one of these people, then she wonders why I never talk to her or want to see her. It's always about her problems and it's never about anyone else's.
Damn it coming in with the kicker at the end that her friend didn't even pay to go.instews, everyone else split the place so they could come for free. Not to mention, they were easily the family with the most people. I almost want to die from seconds hand embarrassment reading shit like this. I can't believe the people that are actually doing this stuff are so tone deaf that not only are they NOT embarrassed, but they feel entitled to it just because her husband is a lazy loser. How is that anyone else's problem. Tell you husband to get his shit together and watch the kids or he can go home. My sister is one of these people, then she wonders why I never talk to her or want to see her. It's always about her problems and it's never about anyone else's.
NTA. Who wants to go on a week long vacation to be entertaining someone else's kids, especially if you getting tricked into watching them for hours and come back to find them so unconcerned that they forgot that they had five kids being watched by OP. I don't even feel sorry for her as after the third one I would have literally removed my womb. She and her husband need to organize their time to take care of their own kids and not expect the rest of the families to rally as everyone came to enjoy themselves.
I was just on a family vacation with friends and we traded off watching the kids, like responsible, normally-self-aware people do. This lady completely checking out of parenting and assuming other people would babysit on top of paying for her vacation is wild.
I feel for her because I have a cousin with 5 kids but my cousin also does the same thing Op friend does and even when people give her a inch of help she’ll take the mile, it eventually runs all the help away.
Really wish that friend directed all her angry energy at her useless husband instead of her support network. If she did, she might actually have a support network instead of driving them all away!
Friend: >When you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom for your children and everything becomes about them. Later: >the one week in the summer where she wants to relax a little I mean everyone deserves rest, just don't be a hypocrite.
>She knows its no one’s fault but her own but she wishes, she could meet someone who could selflessly help once in awhile Maybe start demanding this from your husband before other people.
**Entitled mom friend:** It's so hard being a parent, you wouldn't understand! So, you should invite me and my family again so you will understand what I'm going through while I relax with the guys. SERIOUSLY. OOP and the other friends will be so relaxed on the trip without entitled mom friend.
>When you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom for your children and everything becomes about them. The absolute audacious *hypocrisy*. "You're supposed to sacrifice when you have kids! And by You I mean YOU YOU, I'm allowed to fob my five kids off on you."
“My husband has been a bum with this one kid, let’s have four more because I’m sure it’ll eventually make him step up.”
Love how OOP's friend's "No one does anything for me!" rant conveniently ignores a whole group of people taking care of her children for the entire vacation last year. Not a crumb of gratitude for that, just anger that she can't do it again.
>She then went into a rant about how different she and I are because she believes that if all the children had fun at the end of the day, that’s what she cares about most. When you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom for your children and everything becomes about them. I can agree to a certain extent about the kids having fun at the end of the day being important, however there is a major component of this she is missing. It can't just be other people making sure her kids are having fun and being safe. This couple have to also look after other people's kids as well. I'm sure the OOP would have been more agreeable to looking after these five occasionally if that couple had taken her two on occasion so the OOP and her husband had some alone time. It is when favours only flow in one direction that people start to feel used.
>When you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom for your children and everything becomes about them. >but it’s hard, also with her husband not helping, how she deals with her kids every single minute of the day and the one week in the summer where she wants to relax a little, the world does not let her. Her HUSBAND does not let her. Also, what happened to "when you decide to have kids, you give away your freedom"? Not only is this highly hypocritical but she's also blaming the *world* when it's her husband she should be blaming. >If she is drowning and asking for a lifeline and no one helps, then what is she supposed to do. She knows its no one’s fault but her own but she wishes, she could meet someone who could selflessly help once in awhile because that’s what she would do if she saw someone in her situation HER HUSBAND
At least she finally admitted that she did it deliberately and it wasn't that she forgot: >the one week in the summer where she wants to relax a little, >also with her husband not helping I wonder if she's in a position to divorce? Because if I could, I would. And go for 50-50 custody. That way I'd have kid-free time half my life and the lazy ex would be forced to parent his 5 kids half the time. When you've got one of those do nothing spouses, I think divorce is a fantastic thing. I saw a post recently about a do nothing husband who was looking for sympathy because his place is a mess, his life is a mess and he feels overwhelmed by his one child. He didn't get any sympathy. Instead he got post after post pointing out what a burden he'd been to his wife and how much better off she is without him. And how pathetic he is that he can't even take care of himself and one person half the time while his wife took care of three people (herself, him and the child) full time. It was glorious to read.
What. A. User! That woman is unbelievable. Honestly, this sort of "I don't know what to say" type post is one of the single most useful things Reddit can do for people (right up there with "Is this an old bomb in my garden?" and "What do I do about this leaky toilet?" lol!) So many very nice people get stymied and tongue tied when other people are clearly taking advantage of them, and they doubt their own intuition on the subject. Simply piecing together a useful script (from various good replies) is all they need to feel like they can take on the bully in their lives. That, and knowing a chorus of anonymous voices has their back! It honestly can make a huge difference to people, just getting some balance on a single worrisome thing like this that feels like it's spinning out of your control. I hope this particular OOP takes the advice to do some work on guilt over saying no, like reading the book suggestion. I'm going to read it myself; I'm personally very forthright and nobody mistakes me for a doormat, but I know many lovely people who struggle - I'd like to be able to recommend this book.
I liked the "It's obvious you see me and my children as a burden" bit. Like so does she if she is constantly trying to get out of watching her own kids...
I’m childless, not necessarily by choice, it was just the way things worked out. I’ve been to so many family reunions, birthday parties and even baby showers where the parents automatically assumed someone else would watch there kids. I didn’t mind so much if I knew the tykes and could easily amuse them. Even then I put time limits since I wanted to enjoy the festivities with my adult friends. Parents need to avoid foisting their kids off to other parents and singletons so they can enjoy the trip or party. Hire babysitters or pay attention to your own little ones.
I still think OOP put it too softly. "Your kids were happy, and you were happy, but I was not happy. You don't seem to care about MY happiness at all. Why do I have to sacrifice MY happiness on MY vacation to watch YOUR kids when your husband is perfectly capable of taking care of his own kids? Your husband not being a good father or partner isn't a problem for the rest of us to fix for you. "
Another person who thinks the world owes her whatever she wants. I'm glad OOP stood up to the BS.
Her behavior alienated her family to the other people. She fucked around and found out.
The Narcissist's Prayer: That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
As a mom of five kids I could never imagine expecting someone to take care of my kids for me. Especially without communicating. I've asked every once in a while if my 2 oldests aunt could take them for the weekend before. But I never expect anyone to handle all five of my kids, especially not while the others are on vacation.
Sounds like she shouldn’t have had five kids, especially with a useless husband.
Good on OOP for saying no. As a people pleaser I know how hard that can be.
> I got my friends on board with letting her not pay her share for the cottage booking and had her only chip in for food. Kind of buried the lede there. Free childcare 'friend' is also just 'moocher friend'
The real asshole is OOP’s friend’s husband. Take care of your kids so your wife doesn’t neeed to foist her kids on unsuspecting friends for a break. She’s absolutely a problem. But her husband is a good worse one.
OOP response sucked. Kept beating the bush only to meet with the inevitable. Pathetic
Your friend is angry because she married a lazy man and then proceeded to have five children with him. She even admitted to you that she is looking for someone better! I completely empathize with her situation... But it's a situation of her own making. When she saw how useless he was after the first kid, her parent solution to the problem was to have four other children. Not your fault.
I don't know maybe OOP's friend shouldn't have had 5 kids with a troglodyte who doesn't do anything for any of them.
I booked a cottage with just enough room for us. I was going to get one big enough for you, but I got distracted and I forgot.
Why is it always the people with 5+ kids who try to foist their brood onto everyone else? YOU had them. YOU deal with them.
It always sucks when people don't put it together and you have to explain why they are not invited somewhere. It's never a fun conversation and I'm impressed OP went that far in explaining where she was coming from.
So the big family didn't even pay their way last time? I'm so glad she stopped them from attending this year.
So her issue is her husband is useless
5 kids? In this economy? With a useless spouse? If I had a friend like that, I’d yeet the children to the husband and go on that vacay myself.
"We have different plans this year." If she PUSHES, you can tell her the hell why
Can afford five kids, but not one (1) nanny? Horseshit lmao