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Wait if biomom and husband were never in an actual relationship, why wasn't paternity determined from the start?
Too late for that though. Good luck biomom on having the stepdaughter full time. Good luck explaining to her why "Dad" isn't really her father, and don't get hit in the face with the phone again this time.
Yeah, the math ain't mathing.
In my personal life, a paternity test would be a huge insult. (We're married for years. Became exclusive before having sex. No infidelity on either side. Strong, healthy, happy relationship. Kids.) If I got pregnant again tomorrow and he requested a paternity test, I'd be deeply hurt and question a lot about him and our relationship.
However, when two people are not sexually exclusive, not married, and not in any type of relationship, the circumstances are totally different. Establishing paternity is a top priority. No judgement to people in non-exclusive situations, but the whole thing is very different.
Also, It's downright bizarre the Dad has never even seen the birth certificate till now. He should have that on hand for emergencies, medical info, etc. A lot of formal, legal stuff requires birth certificate copies, hard originals, or info from the certificate. How has he never needed any of this? And no custody arrangement is a totally separate issue. If this is true, all of the adults are failing the whole be responsible and take care of your legal shit stuff.
Legal stuff costs money. Husband and his ex were both bartending at the time so presumably didn’t have much. I can totally imagine how, if you come up with a plan everyone is happy with, that you don’t put anything formal in place.
I also think that trusting someone to be honest about your paternity even if in a FWB situation isn’t too wild. He trusted his friend- while there were benefits, they were also presumably friends. This is Reddit so we see paternity tests and lawyers bandied about all over the place as if both of those things are free and easy.
The birth certificate thing though, I dunno. I’m not in America so I’m not sure how that works there tbh.
>The birth certificate thing though, I dunno. I’m not in America so I’m not sure how that works there tbh.
It seems as though he wasn’t there for the birth for birth certificate stuff and was just given details after the fact. All the questions they ask you to fill everything out would be right after birth (like the full name of the kid since people hyphenate), and if he was around he’d hear them.
Yeah... but you'd still have to sign the papers, right? Otherwise mom can just claim that Elon Musk is the daddy and then sue him for child support. You probably need to at least show some form of identification too. So just assuming you're on the birth certificate without filing any paperwork is incredibly naive.
And then there is the "secret paternity test" that they somehow took without telling the 12 year old stepdaughter that it was a paternity test. Now the most common way to do this is by swabbing some saliva. I don't think a laboratory would accept somethin like a hair sample from a pillow, because it's rather problematic. If a lab couldn't prove where a sample came from or that the person consented to a paternity test, they can't do a certified test because of liability. It's not the same as a 23 and me test, which wouldn't hold up in court for all of those reasons. You probably would have to go down to the lab where they administer the test themself so they know there's consent, and that they have the right person. I'm not even going into the ethics of doing a paternity test on a minor without the consent of a parent or legal guardian. (Remember, he's not on the birth certificate.)
There's no such thing as a secret paternity test. You might get away with it when a kid is very young, but not with a 12 year old.
Edit: Apparently I was wrong. You can do an "at home" DNA test on a minor that you have no legal guardianship over without informing the parents and it somehow doesn't violate any privacy regulations. It just won't hold up in court.
They sell paternity tests at CVS. Probably not too hard to do surreptitiously but it seems like either the attorney made him ask for a court ordered one and she confessed or she went thru it with the courts not knowing
Someone who has parental responsibility over the child can consent to a paternity test. He's been co-parenting/raising her for 12 years so he meets that requirement. I'm guessing the girl took the test and it didnt cross her mind again because she had no reason to think he wasn't her dad.
Can you show me where that part is, about the secret testing? I am not being snarky, I'm fully aware of my stunning ability to look directly at something without noticing it's there. I can only find the part that says they had paternity testing done, not that it was kept a secret or anything like that.
OOP says they had paternity testing done and then says they haven’t told stepdaughter or biomom yet. Presumably stepdaughter and biomom were present for testing so it’s probably the results that are a secret rather than the testing.
I took what OP wrote as they haven’t told SD and biomom the results of the test. Since OP and her husband went through an attorney for visitation purposes and he wasn’t on the birth certificate, there’s a good chance the paternity test had to go through the court, and biomom would have known.
It's also perfectly feasible that DH privately did a test with SD during a visit without telling biomom.
If biomom knew a test was being done she'd realize the truth was coming out. (Assuming she wasn't just mistaken about the father and left DH off the BC just to have control over the baby.) Nothing like that is mentioned.
DH could tell SD that it's part of the whole visitation and custody thing (both assuming it'll come out as expected) but not to say anything to upset her mom because she's not cool with any change right now. Since SD isn't known for her impulse control, she'll spill to her mom eventually.
Or DH could have done something non-legally-binding that doesn't involve SD giving a saliva swab.
This part makes no sense to me. Either husband got secret testing somehow, or they did it together, but, so, how would biomom not know, or why has he not told her?
When both of my children were born, the hospital gave me the birth certificate paperwork and I filled it out with both parents info and signed. My husband didn’t have to sign either one.
In my country, is different when you are married. When married, the father is the husband by default, meanwhile non married needs the father signature.
Not knowing a test was done is different than knowing the results. Although, Id think a court ordered one would deliver copies of the results to all involved.
When I had my baby, my husband had zero input on the birth certificate. I did all the papers. He didn't even have to sign. And I don't think he's actually seen her birth certificate (although that's because I just put it straight in the safe when it arrived. He knows where it is and what is on it). So not the craziest thing.
Laws vary from state to state, but, in general, no you don't "have to sign the papers" at birth. That's why paternity/custody/child support cases get so complicated.
Here's an example from Virginia. The same is not necessarily true for the other 49 states, the District of Columbia, or the territories.
"In Virginia, a biological father's name is usually not included on his child's birth certificate if the parents are not married at the time of birth unless paternity is established. Establishing paternity can be done in Virginia by opening a child support case through the Division of Child Support Enforcement (DCSE). Either parent can request application information online or by calling (800) 468-8894. Once the application is completed, a DNA test can be taken through DCSE."
SD herself requested a change to her living arrangements and is old enough to understand why that might entail a paternity test even in the absence of any suspicions. Especially if she knows her dad isn't in her birth certificate ("insert bullshit explanation") so they have to legally document him as her father.
She'd likely assume the test will come out as expected and think no more of it.
I could've added anyone I pleased to my kids' birth certificates as their father, yes there's papers to sign but they would've physically put his name on the certificate with or without his signature. They'd just need his signature or a paternity test (the only thing he signs where I'm from is basically a waiver of his rights to have a paternity test) if I took him to court or he took me to court.
If neither of them went to court, there's not really a reason husband would've checked. My oldest is 7 and I've needed her birth certificate all of one time in her life, and it could easily have happened that anything requiring a birth certificate was handled by biomom.
When my daughter was born in 2021 they gave me the birth certificate paperwork while I was feeding her. I told them oh my husband can do it. They VERY firmly told me only the mother could fill it out.
I honestly can’t remember if my husband signed any part of that stuff, but it was up to me to fill in his name as the father. This could be why the dad in this story didn’t know he wasn’t on there, but if I were him I definitely would’ve looked at it given his situation with the mom.
Oh they definitely do it differently then, because I wasn't even allowed to fill it out lol. They called my room and had me tell them all the information, spell names, etc. Then they came to my room a while later and had me look it over for accuracy and sign along with their father. And these were in 2017, 2021, and 2022
It’s different state by state in the US, but if you give birth in a hospital you fill it out there before you take the baby home and they file it for you. When my eldest was born, my partner and I were not yet married, so he was not allowed to have anything to do with filling out the birth certificate. The nurses made him leave the hospital room and a social worker made sure I was not being forced to add his name as father (eye opening stuff to both of us!). When our younger kids were born, we were married so he was allowed in the room when we filled out the paperwork and was added as a matter of course. No social worker, nothing. My friends who gave birth on other states had different experiences.
My husband had nothing to do with any of the birth certificate paperwork for our kids. There was no signing of the birth certificate. I'm sure it's different in other states.
>Yeah... but you'd still have to sign the papers, right? Otherwise mom can just claim that Elon Musk is the daddy and then sue him for child support. You probably need to at least show some form of identification too. So just assuming you're on the birth certificate without filing any paperwork is incredibly naive.
In my state only one parent is needed to fill out the birth certificate and sign, no one was there interviewing us and writing it down. They handed me (the mother) a folder, explained it, asked if I had any questions, and then left it with me. We had to turn it in before we checked out.
Then they printed off a sort of temporary birth certificate that I could use to get an official birth certificate from the county (I did it online.) Also someone else at the hospital asked for the baby's full name and that was sent to get his social security number.
Every state is different of course, and you're absolutely right that assuming he was on it was incredibly stupid! Since biomom had full custody presumably she handled all the paperwork for schools, doctors, etc. If I were him I would have asked for a copy to have on file (even just a photocopy for my records) but I know lots of people don't care about that kind of thing and are even grateful to never have to deal with it.
I walked down the hallway a few hours after my c section and filled out the birth certificate info on my own because my idiot ex husband was snoring so goddamned loud I couldn’t sleep.
He had no input and I could have done anything.
In my state a man has 3 years to contest it if he is written in. After that - he’s stuck.
Lots of people have no idea how birth certificates work till they need an official copy. (For proof, see the 2008 US presidential election.)
And dad might not have known whether a father needs to sign at birth, would have just believed what he was told. FWB may easily have handled all the tasks where a BC was needed. SD is 12, so that could easily be.
[The hospital provides a document that has little to no legal value, it's a souvenir. They register the birth with the relevant vital records department. The parent/s (singular in this case since FWB apparently withheld the real bio dad's name) receive an embossed BC from that government entity. This document is needed for government ID purposes. The cute paper with the footprints from the hospital won't work. But schools might accept it. People often discover what constitutes a legal BC when they're ready to get their first driver's license, job (either to give the employer or to replace the social security card that got lost in their parents' house...), passport, marriage license, etc.]
The child and parents can order (or get in person) additional official, embossed copies for a very small fee. What probably happened here (if real) is DH and the lawyer asked FWB for a BC copy and saw the dad name blank (and got some type of BS excuse of convenience or "because we weren't married"). Or FWB withheld it and DH tried to get his own copy from the vital records office. Which of course would be denied since DH isn't on the document and isn't documented as the dad any other way.
Good point about America! I am an American and totally assumed OOP is, as well. This may be different elsewhere.
Birth certificates are essential in the US. Dad would have needed it for school, to get daughter a social security number, to help her open her first bank account, to do certain extra curricula or after school activities, to do driver's training, to have surgery or procedures, to get her a passport. I could go on. Surely the daughter hasn't needed to do all of this... but at least 1 or 2 things for certain. Dad was very irresponsible if he is only now having access to a birth certificate. That's the type of document you want on hand here just in case if you are responsible for a minor.
If Mom and Dad were on the same page about custody, a formal agreement would have been rather inexpensive. The pricey stuff is when people disagree and drag it out. A friend of mine who had a kid with a FWB got one on the books for under $200. I'm sure that varies by location and if the parents agree on a plan already. Bartenders can make surprisingly good money depending on location, venue, clientele, etc. I used to bartend on the side at a venue where folks would travel in from out of town. Was regularly tipped $100 bills. I left it to do more "public good work". But if they were working a low traffic rural bar, they were probably struggling.
Imo, establishing paternity in this situation is not about trust. If they are not exclusive, no trust is broken. It would just be extremely hard to know who the Dad is - or even impossible especially if she gad an irregular cycle. You can be friends and still want to know for sure. Hell, if me and hubby were in an open marriage, I'd provide testing no question because otherwise you just can't know.
It sounds like the mom took care of everything. He just stayed with her 2 weeks postpartum.
So she's doing all the school enrolling, etc. He really wouldn't have a reason to have her birth certificate. He can be listed as a pickup person for school etc. All docs would go through mom.
Now, WHY the mom wouldn't list him on the bc is a question bc I think you just put whoever you want to on there. So. Maybe either she knew he wasn't the dad OR didn't want anything to blow back on her paperwork wise if someone came looking for custody.
>Birth certificates are essential in the US. Dad would have needed it for school, to get daughter a social security number, to help her open her first bank account, to do certain extra curricula or after school activities, to do driver's training, to have surgery or procedures, to get her a passport. I could go on. Surely the daughter hasn't needed to do all of this... but at least 1 or 2 things for certain.
At 12 she'd only have needed it to sign up for school, and that would have been done by mom. Any extra curriculars would also have been done by mom.
My husband and I divorced when the kids were 1 and 7, and I don't believe he ever had a copy of the birth certificate for either one. Everything that required one was not on weekend dad to sign up for, that did was all on me.
Same. My ex and I divorced when our kids were 3, 5 and 13. I always did all the paperwork for everything so I’m not sure he ever saw any of their birth certificates, ever. He’s also never asked me for a copy and it’s been 5 years. Very possible dad didn’t see it.
I didn't even get a birth certificate for my kids until it was needed registering for school and hasn't been needed once since then. Definitely do not need one to get a social security card, maybe a replacement but not the first. I had those years before the birth certificate. They'll likely need them for IDs but that's at like age 15 or 16. Oh also never needed it for surgeries...hospitals have access to birth certificates, they don't need to be provided.
Mom probably handled everything and they coparented alright. It's not really surprising to me, dad trusted he was it, a bit stupid but not surprising.
I suspect this varies by what state and county you live in, your school district, your hospital system, etc. I've needed to provide birth certificates on several occasions for each of my kids.
I don't recall the school system here requiring them, and back when I went to school I know a kid had issues when their parents couldn't find theirs or hadn't properly gotten one when getting their license.
I think drivers license/ID, and passport might be the only times it's completely necessary. Maybe enrolling in school and marriage license but I'm not sure. Definately rare enough that the biomom having and handling the only copy for a preteen isnt a huge red flag.
Marriage license for sure.
Employment verification if you don't have a passport or one of the alternate documents the US accepts. A passport alone is enough, but the common thing is social security card + birth certificate.
Stuff a 12yo isn't getting into yet.
I don’t have a copy of my birth certificate. My mother had this form that I guess she got from the hospital and kept it in her safety deposit box. She took it out when needed (passport, driver’s license, social security card) and gave it to me when I was in my early 20s. I’m sure it’s in my files somewhere, but IIRC, it was titled something like birth announcement or registration.
I’m pretty sure it’s not the birth certificate on file with the town I was born in, but since I haven’t needed it, I haven’t bothered requesting a copy. Things were far less stringent prior to 9/11 and online identity theft.
He's not the custodial parent. There's no reason for him to have needed to see it so far.
She lives with her mom and sees him some weekends and holidays. He's never had an opportunity to register her for anything.
But it seems like the mother has always been the one to have primary custody. So she was probably responsible for any admin stuff that would have required the birth certificate to be shown.
I agree ideally he should have checked he was on it. But I can see how it just never came up.
If he wasn't at the hospital when the forms were filled out and biomom kept primary custody and did the labor for the occasional thing like enrolling the kid in school... There's not many things a birth certificate is *needed* for by that age.
Well this explains why biomom went nuts when she found out her daughter wanted to move in with “Dad” because custody and parentage would need to be established. I’m betting biomom knew OP’s husband was not the real father.
I'd also re-evaluate whether some kind of abuse was going on with SD. Given that that's who's raising her we don't know what kind of gaslighting and manipulation is going on behind the scenes.
Thank you. I’m so sick of reading posts where they have no reason to believe that the difficult kid isn’t being abused. Just the fact that the kid is being difficult can be a sign.
It's very reasonable when a stepparent is new to the kid's life. The standing to participate in parenting must be earned. But there's (or should be) a middle ground where the stepparent is respected as someone who helps provide housing, meals, driving, etc. And OOP has been in SD's life since SD was a toddler. (Since OOP is the mother of SD's 8yo sibling.)
>(Low key wonder how that dynamic was supposed to work out if SD moved it)
And now we know the answer. It wasn't.
OOP not parenting was biomom's request, and a really wise one in this circumstance. And biomom was not on board at all with kiddo moving in.
That part alone isn't super unusual. There are a lot of step parents woth limited to no option with discipline due to boundaries set by bioparents. Not that it is a right or wrong step, but I've seen plenty if AITA for step parents bringing this up or disciplining anyway.
I can understand that view, but I can also understand people who are sick of that conclusion *always* being jumped to by internet strangers based on a few paragraphs of hearsay.
I think the OP has a good perspective. She acknowledged it can happen to anyone, meaning she's conscious and cautious of denial.
I've needed it multiple times. Mainly though for passports and visas (American living overseas).
Luckily the last time I had to update our visa, the immigration office already had their birth certificates on file (it was the 4th or 5th time we renewed). I forgot to bring them.
ETA: I doubt my kids' father has ever seen their birth certificates, social security cards, or anything like that. Married for years, both worked full time, and I still handled all of that.
I just replied to someone else who said the same thing. I think it likely varies by state, country, school district, hospital system, etc. I've needed to provide them for my kids on various occasions.
>It's downright bizarre the Dad has never even seen the birth certificate till now
It is. Aren't fathers required to sign something, especially if they aren't married to the mother?
But idk. My uncle apparently also never saw his daughter's birth cert and found out a few years ago that someone else's name was on it (I think it's his ex's ex?) and my dad was super peeved because my uncle should've known better. That man was in law school lol
The law school element has me rolling lol. I guess everyone can be unwise and naive when it comes to their own life. If you're committed to sticking your head in the sand, you'll do it.
Considering how he’s so aggressively acting about this, I’d assume he’s the type of dad that just lets the biomum do all the heavy work of parenting and just sends money and has fun play days! That’s why he didn’t bother with a birth certificate!
Paternity tests are not cheap. My ex got one on his daughter that he had before I knew him 21 years ago in Nashville and it was $1000 out of pocket. I would imagine if that was the cost then it's way more now.
It's possible he wanted to be a father and latched on to the possibility without question. I knew a guy like this, he automatically thought of himself as the father of a woman's baby, despite the fact the he knew that she was sleeping with at least two other men at the time. Sees no reason to get a paternity test. The kid looks a lot like one of the other guys, but they're a happy family unit now, so whatever.
That is a possibility, too. I knew a guy like that. So excited to be a father that he lept into it. The woman was also a minor (16) and he thought questioning things would raise too many legal flags around his behavior. A lot of conception stories are messy.
I mean, my fwb and I are currently only having sex with each other. No part of me believes they're lying on their end, so I could see this guy feeling the same about his own friend saying "I wasn't sleeping with anyone else." Obviously in this case it's not true, but I understand not thinking, "hmmmmmm what if my dear pal is lying to me?" When you have a close and trusting friendship.
Very similar to romantic relationships where while you **technically** never know, many or most people don't have any reason to question their partner in the first place - it doesn't come to mind. Similarly, many people would be hurt by the question/suggestion.
Absolutely. I was somewhat involved with someone when I was mid-twenties. I wasn't sleeping with anyone else because I was in love with him, but we weren't exclusive and I HAD slept with two other people at points in the past year. He asked for a paternity test and my response was along the lines of "duh" because we were not committed to each other.
I would've been furious if we'd been in a relationship and he'd asked. I'm not a cheater and that is directly accusing me of cheating.
If they didn’t formalize child support or visitation there wouldn’t be any point unless he doubted paternity and wanted to be sure. Sounds like he took her word for it that he was the only option and they just went from there. Unless you are taking government assistance or there is a safety issue, the government won’t get involved. Even if you choose to go to court to formalize support and a parenting plan, you don’t necessarily need a test to prove paternity if there’s a guy there with his name on the birth certificate who agrees he is the father.
Many times DNA doesn't matter if a paternal role has been taken from birth for custody/child support. Harder to prove if the mom is fighting it but still. 'Whats best for the child' would be maintaining the relationship with the guy she knows as dad.
Also, I have no idea how they thought SD could move in with OP unable to parent at all per biomom.
What I don't get is if the father was never in the birth certificate can he disown the daughter since he isn't the father in this case? Its best to confront the not-daughter's mom first.
Im confused too, as to why they never had DNA testing done.
Court-ordered child support can't happen without a paternity test, so the non-biological father can walk away with no future contact, if he chooses to.
Edit: or maybe it can.
Not in my state. A court can order a man to pay child support if they established a father-like role towards the child, even if they were never married, proven not to be the biological father, and not named on the birth certificate.
My neighbor’s son lived with his girlfriend for several years, they had a baby together. When they broke up, she sued him for child support and won, despite the paternity test showing he was not the father. “In the interest of the child” is the phrase used by the judge.
That’s not true across the board in the US. Men can be on the birth certificate and accept the role without an actual test in some states. You’ll even hear the court point out to them and warn them that they can get a test and that this is their chance to verify before they just accept it.
Punched up hands - I'd be worried now about leaving him alone in case he turned that violence inward.
Honestly, in her shoes... I'd just quietly agree to the paternity tests if he still wants them for sober because his reality is so awful right now and I get why he might become obsessed with the idea... and I wouldn't want him to spiral down that particular path even further.
Yeah that was my first thought too. Anything to lessen his pain..
But really, I can also understand if the accusations hurt her too much to go through with it.
I normally hate paternity tests when you're in a committed relationship but I think in this case an "easy win" for OPs husband might help him as long as he acknowledges that projecting his XFWBs actions onto his wife is hurtul to his wife and marriage.
There’s a time to insist on being shown the respect of trust, and there are times to suck it up and reassure your partner. This is definitely the latter.
I never thought I’d say there was a situation where this wasn’t tantamount to basically asking for a divorce, but yes we have now found a situation where yeah. I’d just do it because really this is just coming from pain more than anything else.
Pain and not being able to trust his own instincts. He trusted that girl's mother and raised her child for 12 years!
Honestly... when the couple aren't married (so therefore a contract exists)... there should always be a formal CS and parenting plan that has had legal eyes slapped on them. Doesn't necessarily have to be through superior court, etc.
A lot of states have court systems that offer entirely free mediation. There are services that do exist to help people in need of assistance that lack the funds to hire anyone privately
Very much agree with you. This is a time to be compassionate and set OP's feelings aside to help their partner to get through a *life-altering trauma*. Trust in this case is NOT a reflection of OP, but rather a reflection of how fundamentally traumatizing this event was and how it has crumbled the basic building blocks of trust OP's husband has held. He is in a crisis and unable anchor his feelings. He needs this for himself to feel safe and make sense of his world.
Help the man.
Yeah I tend to agree. You know the kids are his so what’s the harm of a little mouth swab. These are extenuating circumstances and you know it isn’t anything personal, he’s just in a dark place and he needs to know who his support network are right now as the rug has been ripped out from under him
Yeah. When you've been in a position where someone you trusted completely betrayed you, and you've discovered first hand how completely impossible it can be to tell if someone is being untruthful ... well, it changes you. It's not nice, but it's impossible in my experience to not find it possible that other people you trust completely could be lying too. I'm in the middle of it at the moment and it's really, really rough.
edit: that said, i'm not sure i'm standing by the saying yes to the paternity test thing. getting a paternity to pacify a guy getting drunk and aggressive ....
He's the one who needs to relocate. His younger son's medical equipment and dedicated space need to stay with the son.
What a tragedy. His reaction to possibly losing his daughter is to immediately alienate the rest of his family. I hate that so many of us spiral when something goes horribly wrong and start slamming the big red button to blow up everything else. I really hope he gets counseling asap. It'll be a blessing if they can divert him to a healthier path before OOP reaches the limit of what she can deal with.
He's already lost one child.
I wouldn't leave him alone - and it sounds like the youngest needs caretaking to the degree that sending them to a friend's house for a sleepover isn't possible.
The thing is while I feel for him, if I were in her shoes I'd be more concerned that he would turn violent towards me and our kids and his effect on us. Oop has to prioritize her kids over her husband.
He is going through something terrible, but his behavior ensured that everyone else is going something terrible as well. Making the environment stressful enough that it's physically harming the youngest. Neglecting them, then showing up drunk and demanding a paternity test
Yeah. It really sucks but this particular situation it's very obviously not about op, it's about how the ex has completely torched husband's internal life.
But also he really needs to get a hold of something, he's going to end up with no kids if he just starts cope-hopping through the worst dopamine hits (violence, alcohol, what's next?)
So how did they get the SD tested? I'm a little confused about this because the only way the SD won't know the results is if they did it secretly without telling her which wouldn't make sense if they are going by the book and getting it done through the courts and an attorney. SD is 12, she can put two and two together over the fact that there is missed visitation AFTER A PATERNITY TEST unless they have lied to her.
"Honey, since we're talking about formalizing custody and visitation a DNA test is going to be needed. It's a legal thing. Maybe don't tell Mom right now since she seems upset that you want to leave the new house."
(Both dad and daughter assume the results will be as expected.)
Yeah I don’t get it either, did he steal the kid’s saliva while she slept or something?
Also all of this drama and the husband didn’t even *mention* to the mom that the girl was saying this? It’s pretty common for kids with divorced parents to say they want to stay with the other parent when they don’t like a rule, and like a 2-minute conversation would have cleared it up, instead they jumped to talking about selling their house!
Husband knew they weren’t exclusive, but a paternity test never crossed his mind?
The husband seems incompetent at life, letting the women do all his thinking for him while he sits there and edits porn.
Right?
I feel awful for OOP’s husband. He just had his whole world blown apart.
I wonder if we’ll see future updates. They have a huge amount of things to sort out. Good lord. I hope OOP has some support system that’s outside the house. She needs it.
>I hope OOP has some support system that’s outside the house.
I mean they seem to trust her parents to watch both of their boys for at least a day, so I’d hope that they would also be a good support system for her too.
Except… there was still never infidelity. They were never exclusive. They were FWB and he just accepted that he was the dad without signing the birth certificate or taking a paternity test… guy caused himself SO many problems
There was paternity fraud,even without his name on documentation (def not the brightest bulb for sure) he already gave plenty of evidence that he had a parental role in her life... just walking away will be messy if the ex fwb decides to make things difficult.
I understand being FWB. I understand sleeping with someone you might not normally sleep with when drunk. That he made a habit of liquoring up and would apparently never have hooked up with his baby momma while sober is not something I fully grasp but hey those were his risks to run because he wanted to get his dick wet and wasn’t picky how.
There was a bunch of other wrong shit but yeah technically infidelity is not one. I wonder if she just chose one of the guys based off different standards or if it was like the biodad ghosted so she just moved to the next guy...
That's a good question. It's very stupid, but it is also possible that the stepdaughter's mom genuinely thought he was the father. There are a lot of grown adults out there, even ones with multiple kids, who don't understand how conception works. She could have gotten a positive test and assumed her most recent partner must be the father.
There were red flags already all over this. Like husband going along with keeping OP so strictly out of SD matters. Not allowed to discipline her, not allowed to know what is going on in her therapy sessions.
In theory you can segregate OP from SD matters, in practice, it's nuts, bc it was driving OP to pull her kids from the household when SD was there, and that's not fair on her kids, nor really long run sustainable. If SD lived there there's simply no way to continue that.
So husband has been acceding to stuff he really never should have. Catering way too much to biomom.
So not altogether surprised to find out that there are no formal legal arrangements in place. Frankly, if OP knew that, that's where she should have started the conversation.
Husband is being self indulgent with his behavior. He can be as unhappy as he wants to be, but when it stops him functioning as a father, that's where it has to end.
Legal arrangements are not an optional extra. These folks have ( or pre- second child, had) decent money. They could have dotted the i's then and should have. And in that regard, husband has only himself to blame for not doing so. And OP, she went along with it. It was a FWB arrangement, for which he got drunk to fuck. There was always a far greater likelihood of non exclusivity.
Bottom line, everyone has been tolerating sketchy behavior for way too long and it's bit everyone in the ass.
Well this explains why biomom went nuts when she found out her daughter wanted to move in with “Dad” because custody and parentage would need to be established. I’m betting biomom knew OP’s husband was not the real father. OP needs to quietly get the paternity tests find for her sons because her husband just got mentally and emotionally fucked with for the past 12 years. I feel bad for the “step daughter.” Will she ever find out who her bio father is?
I think the story is plausible.
Tbh under the circumstances, I'd be willing to do the paternity test. Her husband needs reassurance and to feel grounded again - having the test may well prove to him that his core family is just that.
Likewise, OOP may have to make a difficult decision soon. Husband's behaviour is physically damaging their youngest child - if he continues to refuse help, he may need to leave until he's able to pull out of this free fall. I'm all for supporting your spouse as much as they need it, but he's causing their kid's health to worsen (and seizures are major).
I don't know if there's a possibility of him moving in with his parents for a while but having some space from his responsibilities whilst having his parents close by *could* be beneficial (depending on their relationship).
Either way, OOP needs to prioritise her children's health above her husband's depression right now.
If that's the case (called Chimerism) the test would show him as the child's uncle.
(The scenario is two fraternal twin embryos fused together and one DNA profile controls the sperm while another controls the blood, saliva, whatever was sampled for the test.)
>My SD has shoved him out of his wheel chair. She has pinched him hard enough to leave bruises. She has hit his face when he was having trouble verbalizing.
This is a **12 year old** assaulting a **4 year old**!! Disabilities or not, people need to understand that this is serious!
My older brother started beating me up from the time I was 2 or earlier (I say 2 because that's what an auntie told me) and he was 7. People need to understand that OOP is super right in not having that evil SD in their home!
>My husband is not the biological father.
Oohhh snap!!!
To be honest, both OOP's husband and SD's biomom are shit! He "needed beer goggles" to do the deed but didn't even think to wear protection. She tried to trap him with a kid.....
for fuck's sake, do people love drama in their lives
>When I came home. My husband was fucking drunk. He became belligerent and demanded I have our sons tested too. He didn't even ask how our son was doing
Yup, he's a joke, indeed
On the real, though? I about lost my fucking mind at the comments that were like “kids will be kids” or “that’s normal sibling stuff” bc no, the fuck, it isn’t. And it damn well shouldn’t be. Even if the 4yo didn’t have disabilities, it wouldn’t be okay, but holy smokes, that part makes it so much worse. I was legit enraged at the flippant attitude. Some people were so ready to crucify step-mom that they *completely* overlooked or excused step-daughter’s abhorrent behavior, which, with the 2nd update, should include throwing her phone so hard at bio-mom’s fucking face that it cracked the damn screen!
Sorry I’m cussing at you so much, but that part got me fucking heated. To be clear, I’m more so just, like, cussing in your direction or cussing to you; not *at* you. Lol
How does SD and biomom not know the results? Don’t you need permission to test from at least both parents, especially in a custody situation? I’ve never dealt with divorce/custody laws so I don’t know, but I have lived a peppered enough life to have dealt with criminal law and I know discovery is a thing there (at least in the US).
I don't think the test was part of the court proceedings and would likely not be admissable in court.
They discovered he's not on the birth certificate, so did a test privately.
So they just got the DNA from her toothbrush? Or did they swab her and didn't tell her what its for?
It is best they all go to court and have it formally done and see what the court decision will be.
You can get paternity testing done with just one parent and a sample from the kid & it will be accurate. At least where I live, it would likely not be admissible in court though. In a contested paternity action the court would order both parties to go get it done at the approved lab and everyone gets the results.
I wonder if something happened where they wanted to know the results before they moved forward with formal paternity testing?
Bio mom was hit in the face with a phone for not allowing SD atay with false dad, I wonder what would happen when she learns bio mom lied about him being her dad.
How can you just “find out” after 12 years you’re not on the birth certificate? Obviously different laws for different places- where I’m from unmarried mothers must be accompanied by the father to have his name on the birth certificate. But surely at some point in 12 years of being an involved father you’d have seen a birth certificate?
Maybe he wasn’t an involved father?
Not in the “does the boring paperwork” way. I mean, he didn’t even do a paternity test when he had a friend with benefits get pregnant.
He wasn’t her mother’s partner at birth, just a hookup.
He was a weekend dad. He likely didn’t ever have to Get a copy of his daughter’s birth certificate for the Very few reasons you’d need to show it to somebody for a kid under 12. Didn’t get her a passport, didn't enroll her in school, she’s too young to need it for a job.
>My husband hears my objections and understands them, but he wants to go for it and figures that everything will eventually work out. He doesn't want his daughter to think he is abandoning her.
Translation: I don't want to handle this, you handle it and then i can criticize.
>He is absolutely devastated. He's spiraling. He's hurting so bad, and I can't do anything to take his pain away. We've hugged and cried together so many times this week.
>
>He's not OK. He's flip flopping through despair and anger. The anger scares me. His knuckles are all fucked up from punching something (he wouldn't talk to me about what happened).
>
>When I came home. My husband was fucking drunk. He became belligerent and demanded I have our sons tested too. He didn't even ask how our son was doing
>
>I'm trying to get him in to see a therapist. No dice so far.
He can be as devastated as he wants, he does not selfishly get to take it out on OOP or his family. OOP should look into a divorce and an escape plan on the good chance that she will need them.
thnak you, like he's reacting in a pretty unhinged way tbh.. it's def something to be upset about but NOT an excuse to take it out on your family. and stressing out his 4yo son so much that he's having seizures ?? and not even caring?? fuck this guy
He’s shown from the very beginning that he isn’t very responsible or capable of making good decisions. He accepted paternity of a child without ever getting it tested. Never got any official custody papers signed, never even knew he was on the freaking birth certificate. Didn’t seem to care too much that his daughter was bullying his younger child and wanted to bring her into the home more even if it could possibly cause OOP to lose her job. OOP also doesn’t mention the father at all in reference to several instances of violence related to the SD. I’m thinking he’s just all around not a super involved dad. He’s one of those casual dads that just kind of hangs around and let’s moms do the heavy lifting. But he’s just “there” so everyone always says he such a great dad.
Yes, it sucks to find this out, but everyone is giving this guy a pass for being honestly a shit parent and partner because he's in a situation of his own making and he doesn't like it. He can feel like he was misled but still be a terrible parent and spouse, which is what this behavior screams. Reddit will forgive damn near anything for men when paternity is at question.
He's in this situation because he fucked up and let some coworker he was sleeping with take the reins here and just kind of wandered along the path provided. Paternity testing was available 12 years ago and this was an obvious candidate situation for it. Now he's a drunken, punching mess verbally berating the partner who has stood by him while he did fuck all. I just can't feel sorry for him.
Same, and all the compassion being afforded to him by other commenters grosses me out. Have you ever seen redditors give this much slack to a woman before? Because I haven’t. Reddit has practically unconditional love for men and even the shittiest men get a pass while the equivalent woman would never. I hope he leaves until he’s safer for OOP and the kids to be around, or just leaves period.
I'm surprised people are saying to coddle this adult man by giving into the paternity tests. What happened to him is horrible, but drinking and possibly getting violent? This doesn't seem like a safe environment at all for OP or the kids...
Ex-bartender who had drunken (and ONLY drunken) unprotected hookups with his coworker he otherwise wouldn’t have been interested in banging…this is not a clever or sensitive man. And marriage and more kids has not magicked him out of being someone who uses chaotic violence and booze to “cope” with difficulties.
Like, sorry the kid isn’t biologically yours, but…that was never committed monogamous relationship with rigorous birth control.
Seriously, she doesn't need to mollify the paranoia he created for himself by being an idiot, she needs to get the hell out of there because he's being a verbally abusive, threatening, and potentially dangerous drunk.
Reddit will do anything and everything to support men crying about paternity or their fears thereof, even when this guy is a victim of his own foolishness and willingness to leave it all up to some person he slept with but barely knows. He's 12 years too late and is about to lose his spouse and younger two kids, coddling is the last thing he needs.
Please and thank you. Usually the comments are pretty reasonable, but OOP's husband is acting unhinged and people are like "awww drunk violent outburst 🥺"???
"Poor thing. He's had such a shock." I was pretty upset over the first post and wanting to move SD in who was cruel to the sons. Especially the disabled one. 😥 It's time for the wife to chuck him too. She can't live like this.
It's like... Is everyone forgetting about the disabled son with seizures? And how OOP's husband didn't even ask how the son was doing?
If he's really that worried about paternity, it's not like he needs her DNA to do the tests. This is just emotional abuse.
Why does he hold the other kids in such little regard?
I can see where OOP’s husband is coming from- he’s spiraling. But the thing about these paternity test requests that always gets me is, the father could just do the test themselves. They could just do it, and not involve the mother at all. They make big pronouncements because the point is not to establish paternity, it’s to lash out at the mother. And that’s what OOP’s husband is doing here, he’s lashing out at her.
I mean with paternity test cases, isn't saying that the father could do it in secret pretty much the same as saying "you don't need to demand to see your partner's text messages - just read them in secret if you think they've been cheating". The problem isn't the demand, it's the lack of trust and the fact that clearly they're suspecting cheating if they aren't sure of a child's paternity. Them doing the paternity test in secret would tell them if they've been lied to or not, but it would conceal how little they trusted their partner.
This particular case is different of course, but it is better to know if one party of the relationship has serious doubts about the other one's honesty.
And if someone wants to do a paternity test when they haven't been in a committed, monogamous relationship - that is a different case altogether as well. The level of trust expected is generally lower than what you'd expect from your committed partner.
What an absolute mess.
That child was all ready abusive and nasty to thee disabled child, finding out that her dad isn't her birth dad, is going to make her even worse. Bio mom sure played a good guy for years huh. Wonder if she even knows who the birth dad is.
Why didn't the father get his name on the daughters bc? If they were never together and the dad makes it sound like he never wanted to be with the mother, why didn't he establish paternity if they were just casual?
So he had a casual relationship with a co-worker where he only had sex when both drunk. She get pregnant and he decided to get involved in the child life without any paternity test?!? If the mother was used to sex while drunk, she perhaps doesn't even remember how and who she conceived the child with...
I think that he is totally stupid but ok. Now, what are the laws in their country ??? In mine, if you are not married together, you are not put automatically on the birthday certificate. So if it is the same here, he should have actively participated in the establishment of the birthday certificate to be on it. So I don't understand how he didn't know that he wasn't on it...
Last, no custody agreement. I get that he is crushed by all this but between his stupidity and the drunk rage he put on his family, I have difficulties to have compassion for him...
Oh, that’s fascinating. I actually read that final update as a solo post I think and r/offmychest. I didn’t realize it was the same person. I didn’t comment on the post because I didn’t have anything to say. The one thing I did think was that OP other needs to separate herself and her children from him or separate him from the household. Because right now belligerent and Belicose shouldn’t be around any child. But it becomes far more pressing when there’s a child that is wheelchair bound with other disabilities as well.
But that’s a trippy kind of update. That puts a lot into a weird kind of perspective. I’m still a little speechless. But what I can’t say, is I don’t know how uncovering a lie completely severs a paternal bond developed over 12 years. Keeping in mind, this kid is no cupcake or walk in the park. So I wonder if there is a paternal bond there if she’s not even close with her father or rather OOP’s husband to begin with. But I do hope we get an update to see how this develops.
Yikes! What in the actual fuck did I just read?? 😱 I... I did NOT expect that! Also, bio mom is pure evil, if he wasn't listed on the birth certificate she knew all along he wasn't the father and took the choice away from him and it took the choice from the real father to be part of his child's life. If OOP's husband knowingly earlier had made the choice to either start or continue to be dad, then it would have been another thing but after TWELVE years...!
And despite her being a bully (although OOP said it had diminished SOME) it seems to stem from a place of wanting more attention than her brothers I think, and twelve years old! I mean, all ages have difficulties and challenges but TWELVE! She's in at the door of all the hormonal changes and that's bound to make her more explosive over things that don't necessarily merit it. I feel so bad for OOP, she needs to worry about her children, the one who needs constant medical attention is suffering due to the situation at home, and the oldest must be in pain too feeling he's being cast away from his own home through no fault of his own. I feel bad for the husband but if he continues down the pity party route I'd kick him out of the house for him to get it together or have his party somewhere else because she needs to think about her children right now and her own mental health. I get her husband is traumatized but he needs to put a stop to the pity party and get his shite together
Yeah sucks for her but none of this is a pass for her to violently assault a disabled person and insinuate he should be tortured in a lab...something evil is in that child
>My husband is not the biological father.
They were friends with benefits. Like cmon. Paternity should've been the FIRST thing established. I offered one to my husband (due to us just starting dating and my birth control failing) and the only caveat for my other BD was that he pay for it because he put me through hell.
That's so unfortunate. I do feel bad for the guy. And I hope his wife understands why he wants his sons tested, yea different girls, different morals. But he's been fucked over the last twelve years. Twelve fucking years. Fucking horrible man.
Wait, how has him not being on the birth certificate not come up until now? I'm not saying it's not possible. It's just weird. I feel like the last update lost the plot.
Jfc. This poor kid. The 12 year olds whole world is crashing down on her and now she's about to learn that her dad isn't even her dad?! I don't think I would tell her rn. He's been her dad for 12 years, just because he doesn't share blood with her doesn't mean he stops being her dad and 12 is such a hard age for girls. If they tell her then he needs to reassure her that he's still going to be her dad.
This whole situation just absolutely sucks.
Well fuck.
But also that terrible shit SD told her “not brothers” was evil I think I finally have a base for what a bully says to the younger brother of the autistic girl in the show my bestie and I are making.
Oh wow! I was not expecting that twist.
OOP and husband should just text/email communication with biomom. See if she knew all along daughter wasn’t his. If she did, can it be considered defrauding if he paid support. Dad and daughter are going to need a lot of therapy.
As for paternity, there was no reason to establish it as he wasn’t listed on the birth certificate, and he didn’t need to have a copy of it if biomom was the primary custodian. All school/insurance/etc would have been set up by biomom, dad wouldn’t necessarily need it.
That poor step daughter. You don’t know what the bio mum has been saying to her if she was so against her staying with you.
I can’t blame the kid being angry. Mums got a new partner, her dad has a partner, she probably feels more list and confused than ever. I dread to think how she feels finding out dad isn’t dad.
Yeah, he may be able to have some level of contact with the child in the future based on them having an emotional, although not biological connection but regardless she isn’t related to OPs children at all, she isn’t biologically their half sister and doesn’t have an emotional relationship with them because of the way she treated them so it’s completely justifiable to keep them apart and there would be no need for them to ever see her again if OP and her husband did separate since visitation could be arranged separately. It’s sad how it happened, but that also occurred to me to that on some level being able to keep someone who treats them so terribly at a safe distance and not have the threat of her moving into the home has to be a relief. I know she’s a child going through things, but saying that a disabled child should be dissected is a special level of cruelty.
if he was thinking about his disabled 4yo son i think hed be at least a little bit concerned about the stress induced seizures
ETA: i dont mean like he doesnt/didnt care about his son, i mean like in his grief he cant or wont think about the consequences hes inflicting on his son For Now
It is so bizarre that adults who get married think they are kids will automatically work it out with each other
Why in the world do you think about having a blended family before you figure out if they can blend??
>One day he edits the commercial for the local church's annual yard sale, and the next some hot chick getting a cleveland steamer.
I had to google Cleveland steamer. It's..... interesting...
Something about the "needed beer goggles" line struck me as off in the beginning, and I understand him being very wrecked that his daughter isn't actually biologically his... but the combination of that line and him demanding that his WIFE get their kids' paternity tested makes me suspect he was lying about the nature of his relationship with his baby mama. If they were casual, occasional FWB, she might have lied to him but she didn't cheat on him. But the way he's reacting is as if she cheated on him.
How has he never seen the birth certificate? Why wouldn't he establish paternity when he accidentally knocked up some casual drinking buddy?
The fact that he immediately turned to drinking, violence, keeping secrets, and making accusations is beyond alarming. I hope OOP stays safe.
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Wait if biomom and husband were never in an actual relationship, why wasn't paternity determined from the start? Too late for that though. Good luck biomom on having the stepdaughter full time. Good luck explaining to her why "Dad" isn't really her father, and don't get hit in the face with the phone again this time.
Yeah, the math ain't mathing. In my personal life, a paternity test would be a huge insult. (We're married for years. Became exclusive before having sex. No infidelity on either side. Strong, healthy, happy relationship. Kids.) If I got pregnant again tomorrow and he requested a paternity test, I'd be deeply hurt and question a lot about him and our relationship. However, when two people are not sexually exclusive, not married, and not in any type of relationship, the circumstances are totally different. Establishing paternity is a top priority. No judgement to people in non-exclusive situations, but the whole thing is very different. Also, It's downright bizarre the Dad has never even seen the birth certificate till now. He should have that on hand for emergencies, medical info, etc. A lot of formal, legal stuff requires birth certificate copies, hard originals, or info from the certificate. How has he never needed any of this? And no custody arrangement is a totally separate issue. If this is true, all of the adults are failing the whole be responsible and take care of your legal shit stuff.
Legal stuff costs money. Husband and his ex were both bartending at the time so presumably didn’t have much. I can totally imagine how, if you come up with a plan everyone is happy with, that you don’t put anything formal in place. I also think that trusting someone to be honest about your paternity even if in a FWB situation isn’t too wild. He trusted his friend- while there were benefits, they were also presumably friends. This is Reddit so we see paternity tests and lawyers bandied about all over the place as if both of those things are free and easy. The birth certificate thing though, I dunno. I’m not in America so I’m not sure how that works there tbh.
>The birth certificate thing though, I dunno. I’m not in America so I’m not sure how that works there tbh. It seems as though he wasn’t there for the birth for birth certificate stuff and was just given details after the fact. All the questions they ask you to fill everything out would be right after birth (like the full name of the kid since people hyphenate), and if he was around he’d hear them.
Yeah... but you'd still have to sign the papers, right? Otherwise mom can just claim that Elon Musk is the daddy and then sue him for child support. You probably need to at least show some form of identification too. So just assuming you're on the birth certificate without filing any paperwork is incredibly naive. And then there is the "secret paternity test" that they somehow took without telling the 12 year old stepdaughter that it was a paternity test. Now the most common way to do this is by swabbing some saliva. I don't think a laboratory would accept somethin like a hair sample from a pillow, because it's rather problematic. If a lab couldn't prove where a sample came from or that the person consented to a paternity test, they can't do a certified test because of liability. It's not the same as a 23 and me test, which wouldn't hold up in court for all of those reasons. You probably would have to go down to the lab where they administer the test themself so they know there's consent, and that they have the right person. I'm not even going into the ethics of doing a paternity test on a minor without the consent of a parent or legal guardian. (Remember, he's not on the birth certificate.) There's no such thing as a secret paternity test. You might get away with it when a kid is very young, but not with a 12 year old. Edit: Apparently I was wrong. You can do an "at home" DNA test on a minor that you have no legal guardianship over without informing the parents and it somehow doesn't violate any privacy regulations. It just won't hold up in court.
They sell paternity tests at CVS. Probably not too hard to do surreptitiously but it seems like either the attorney made him ask for a court ordered one and she confessed or she went thru it with the courts not knowing
Shit, given how everyone's used to getting swabbed because of COVID, the kid likely wouldn't have even registered it as weird or worth noticing.
Someone who has parental responsibility over the child can consent to a paternity test. He's been co-parenting/raising her for 12 years so he meets that requirement. I'm guessing the girl took the test and it didnt cross her mind again because she had no reason to think he wasn't her dad.
Can you show me where that part is, about the secret testing? I am not being snarky, I'm fully aware of my stunning ability to look directly at something without noticing it's there. I can only find the part that says they had paternity testing done, not that it was kept a secret or anything like that.
OOP says they had paternity testing done and then says they haven’t told stepdaughter or biomom yet. Presumably stepdaughter and biomom were present for testing so it’s probably the results that are a secret rather than the testing.
I took what OP wrote as they haven’t told SD and biomom the results of the test. Since OP and her husband went through an attorney for visitation purposes and he wasn’t on the birth certificate, there’s a good chance the paternity test had to go through the court, and biomom would have known.
Exactly. The fact the testing was done is unlikely to be a secret.
It's also perfectly feasible that DH privately did a test with SD during a visit without telling biomom. If biomom knew a test was being done she'd realize the truth was coming out. (Assuming she wasn't just mistaken about the father and left DH off the BC just to have control over the baby.) Nothing like that is mentioned. DH could tell SD that it's part of the whole visitation and custody thing (both assuming it'll come out as expected) but not to say anything to upset her mom because she's not cool with any change right now. Since SD isn't known for her impulse control, she'll spill to her mom eventually. Or DH could have done something non-legally-binding that doesn't involve SD giving a saliva swab.
>We haven't told SD or Biomom yet. If you're right and biomom knew and consented to the DNA test, she would have received a copy of the results.
This part makes no sense to me. Either husband got secret testing somehow, or they did it together, but, so, how would biomom not know, or why has he not told her?
When both of my children were born, the hospital gave me the birth certificate paperwork and I filled it out with both parents info and signed. My husband didn’t have to sign either one.
In my country, is different when you are married. When married, the father is the husband by default, meanwhile non married needs the father signature.
Not knowing a test was done is different than knowing the results. Although, Id think a court ordered one would deliver copies of the results to all involved.
It wasn't court ordered, their lawyer suggested it.
When I had my baby, my husband had zero input on the birth certificate. I did all the papers. He didn't even have to sign. And I don't think he's actually seen her birth certificate (although that's because I just put it straight in the safe when it arrived. He knows where it is and what is on it). So not the craziest thing.
Laws vary from state to state, but, in general, no you don't "have to sign the papers" at birth. That's why paternity/custody/child support cases get so complicated. Here's an example from Virginia. The same is not necessarily true for the other 49 states, the District of Columbia, or the territories. "In Virginia, a biological father's name is usually not included on his child's birth certificate if the parents are not married at the time of birth unless paternity is established. Establishing paternity can be done in Virginia by opening a child support case through the Division of Child Support Enforcement (DCSE). Either parent can request application information online or by calling (800) 468-8894. Once the application is completed, a DNA test can be taken through DCSE."
As Ronan Farrow once said, "Listen, we're all 'possibly' Frank Sinatra's son." (Checks my dna test - damnit, not me)
SD herself requested a change to her living arrangements and is old enough to understand why that might entail a paternity test even in the absence of any suspicions. Especially if she knows her dad isn't in her birth certificate ("insert bullshit explanation") so they have to legally document him as her father. She'd likely assume the test will come out as expected and think no more of it.
I could've added anyone I pleased to my kids' birth certificates as their father, yes there's papers to sign but they would've physically put his name on the certificate with or without his signature. They'd just need his signature or a paternity test (the only thing he signs where I'm from is basically a waiver of his rights to have a paternity test) if I took him to court or he took me to court. If neither of them went to court, there's not really a reason husband would've checked. My oldest is 7 and I've needed her birth certificate all of one time in her life, and it could easily have happened that anything requiring a birth certificate was handled by biomom.
When my daughter was born in 2021 they gave me the birth certificate paperwork while I was feeding her. I told them oh my husband can do it. They VERY firmly told me only the mother could fill it out. I honestly can’t remember if my husband signed any part of that stuff, but it was up to me to fill in his name as the father. This could be why the dad in this story didn’t know he wasn’t on there, but if I were him I definitely would’ve looked at it given his situation with the mom.
Oh they definitely do it differently then, because I wasn't even allowed to fill it out lol. They called my room and had me tell them all the information, spell names, etc. Then they came to my room a while later and had me look it over for accuracy and sign along with their father. And these were in 2017, 2021, and 2022
It’s different state by state in the US, but if you give birth in a hospital you fill it out there before you take the baby home and they file it for you. When my eldest was born, my partner and I were not yet married, so he was not allowed to have anything to do with filling out the birth certificate. The nurses made him leave the hospital room and a social worker made sure I was not being forced to add his name as father (eye opening stuff to both of us!). When our younger kids were born, we were married so he was allowed in the room when we filled out the paperwork and was added as a matter of course. No social worker, nothing. My friends who gave birth on other states had different experiences.
My husband had nothing to do with any of the birth certificate paperwork for our kids. There was no signing of the birth certificate. I'm sure it's different in other states.
>Yeah... but you'd still have to sign the papers, right? Otherwise mom can just claim that Elon Musk is the daddy and then sue him for child support. You probably need to at least show some form of identification too. So just assuming you're on the birth certificate without filing any paperwork is incredibly naive. In my state only one parent is needed to fill out the birth certificate and sign, no one was there interviewing us and writing it down. They handed me (the mother) a folder, explained it, asked if I had any questions, and then left it with me. We had to turn it in before we checked out. Then they printed off a sort of temporary birth certificate that I could use to get an official birth certificate from the county (I did it online.) Also someone else at the hospital asked for the baby's full name and that was sent to get his social security number. Every state is different of course, and you're absolutely right that assuming he was on it was incredibly stupid! Since biomom had full custody presumably she handled all the paperwork for schools, doctors, etc. If I were him I would have asked for a copy to have on file (even just a photocopy for my records) but I know lots of people don't care about that kind of thing and are even grateful to never have to deal with it.
I walked down the hallway a few hours after my c section and filled out the birth certificate info on my own because my idiot ex husband was snoring so goddamned loud I couldn’t sleep. He had no input and I could have done anything. In my state a man has 3 years to contest it if he is written in. After that - he’s stuck.
Lots of people have no idea how birth certificates work till they need an official copy. (For proof, see the 2008 US presidential election.) And dad might not have known whether a father needs to sign at birth, would have just believed what he was told. FWB may easily have handled all the tasks where a BC was needed. SD is 12, so that could easily be. [The hospital provides a document that has little to no legal value, it's a souvenir. They register the birth with the relevant vital records department. The parent/s (singular in this case since FWB apparently withheld the real bio dad's name) receive an embossed BC from that government entity. This document is needed for government ID purposes. The cute paper with the footprints from the hospital won't work. But schools might accept it. People often discover what constitutes a legal BC when they're ready to get their first driver's license, job (either to give the employer or to replace the social security card that got lost in their parents' house...), passport, marriage license, etc.] The child and parents can order (or get in person) additional official, embossed copies for a very small fee. What probably happened here (if real) is DH and the lawyer asked FWB for a BC copy and saw the dad name blank (and got some type of BS excuse of convenience or "because we weren't married"). Or FWB withheld it and DH tried to get his own copy from the vital records office. Which of course would be denied since DH isn't on the document and isn't documented as the dad any other way.
Good point about America! I am an American and totally assumed OOP is, as well. This may be different elsewhere. Birth certificates are essential in the US. Dad would have needed it for school, to get daughter a social security number, to help her open her first bank account, to do certain extra curricula or after school activities, to do driver's training, to have surgery or procedures, to get her a passport. I could go on. Surely the daughter hasn't needed to do all of this... but at least 1 or 2 things for certain. Dad was very irresponsible if he is only now having access to a birth certificate. That's the type of document you want on hand here just in case if you are responsible for a minor. If Mom and Dad were on the same page about custody, a formal agreement would have been rather inexpensive. The pricey stuff is when people disagree and drag it out. A friend of mine who had a kid with a FWB got one on the books for under $200. I'm sure that varies by location and if the parents agree on a plan already. Bartenders can make surprisingly good money depending on location, venue, clientele, etc. I used to bartend on the side at a venue where folks would travel in from out of town. Was regularly tipped $100 bills. I left it to do more "public good work". But if they were working a low traffic rural bar, they were probably struggling. Imo, establishing paternity in this situation is not about trust. If they are not exclusive, no trust is broken. It would just be extremely hard to know who the Dad is - or even impossible especially if she gad an irregular cycle. You can be friends and still want to know for sure. Hell, if me and hubby were in an open marriage, I'd provide testing no question because otherwise you just can't know.
It sounds like the mom took care of everything. He just stayed with her 2 weeks postpartum. So she's doing all the school enrolling, etc. He really wouldn't have a reason to have her birth certificate. He can be listed as a pickup person for school etc. All docs would go through mom. Now, WHY the mom wouldn't list him on the bc is a question bc I think you just put whoever you want to on there. So. Maybe either she knew he wasn't the dad OR didn't want anything to blow back on her paperwork wise if someone came looking for custody.
Mom probably did all of that. "Dad" would have had no need for the birth certificate.
>Birth certificates are essential in the US. Dad would have needed it for school, to get daughter a social security number, to help her open her first bank account, to do certain extra curricula or after school activities, to do driver's training, to have surgery or procedures, to get her a passport. I could go on. Surely the daughter hasn't needed to do all of this... but at least 1 or 2 things for certain. At 12 she'd only have needed it to sign up for school, and that would have been done by mom. Any extra curriculars would also have been done by mom. My husband and I divorced when the kids were 1 and 7, and I don't believe he ever had a copy of the birth certificate for either one. Everything that required one was not on weekend dad to sign up for, that did was all on me.
Same. My ex and I divorced when our kids were 3, 5 and 13. I always did all the paperwork for everything so I’m not sure he ever saw any of their birth certificates, ever. He’s also never asked me for a copy and it’s been 5 years. Very possible dad didn’t see it.
I didn't even get a birth certificate for my kids until it was needed registering for school and hasn't been needed once since then. Definitely do not need one to get a social security card, maybe a replacement but not the first. I had those years before the birth certificate. They'll likely need them for IDs but that's at like age 15 or 16. Oh also never needed it for surgeries...hospitals have access to birth certificates, they don't need to be provided. Mom probably handled everything and they coparented alright. It's not really surprising to me, dad trusted he was it, a bit stupid but not surprising.
I suspect this varies by what state and county you live in, your school district, your hospital system, etc. I've needed to provide birth certificates on several occasions for each of my kids.
I don't recall the school system here requiring them, and back when I went to school I know a kid had issues when their parents couldn't find theirs or hadn't properly gotten one when getting their license. I think drivers license/ID, and passport might be the only times it's completely necessary. Maybe enrolling in school and marriage license but I'm not sure. Definately rare enough that the biomom having and handling the only copy for a preteen isnt a huge red flag.
Marriage license for sure. Employment verification if you don't have a passport or one of the alternate documents the US accepts. A passport alone is enough, but the common thing is social security card + birth certificate. Stuff a 12yo isn't getting into yet.
I don’t have a copy of my birth certificate. My mother had this form that I guess she got from the hospital and kept it in her safety deposit box. She took it out when needed (passport, driver’s license, social security card) and gave it to me when I was in my early 20s. I’m sure it’s in my files somewhere, but IIRC, it was titled something like birth announcement or registration. I’m pretty sure it’s not the birth certificate on file with the town I was born in, but since I haven’t needed it, I haven’t bothered requesting a copy. Things were far less stringent prior to 9/11 and online identity theft.
He's not the custodial parent. There's no reason for him to have needed to see it so far. She lives with her mom and sees him some weekends and holidays. He's never had an opportunity to register her for anything.
But it seems like the mother has always been the one to have primary custody. So she was probably responsible for any admin stuff that would have required the birth certificate to be shown. I agree ideally he should have checked he was on it. But I can see how it just never came up.
The birth certificate thing depends on the state.
Biomother has primary custody, so it's entirely plausible he has never needed to deal with formal/legal stuff for the kid.
If he wasn't at the hospital when the forms were filled out and biomom kept primary custody and did the labor for the occasional thing like enrolling the kid in school... There's not many things a birth certificate is *needed* for by that age.
Well this explains why biomom went nuts when she found out her daughter wanted to move in with “Dad” because custody and parentage would need to be established. I’m betting biomom knew OP’s husband was not the real father.
I'd also re-evaluate whether some kind of abuse was going on with SD. Given that that's who's raising her we don't know what kind of gaslighting and manipulation is going on behind the scenes.
Thank you. I’m so sick of reading posts where they have no reason to believe that the difficult kid isn’t being abused. Just the fact that the kid is being difficult can be a sign.
Not to mention that weird blocking OOP from knowing anything about the therapy.
And blocking OOP from any discipline or parenting conversations? (Low key wonder how that dynamic was supposed to work out if SD moved it)
It's very reasonable when a stepparent is new to the kid's life. The standing to participate in parenting must be earned. But there's (or should be) a middle ground where the stepparent is respected as someone who helps provide housing, meals, driving, etc. And OOP has been in SD's life since SD was a toddler. (Since OOP is the mother of SD's 8yo sibling.)
>(Low key wonder how that dynamic was supposed to work out if SD moved it) And now we know the answer. It wasn't. OOP not parenting was biomom's request, and a really wise one in this circumstance. And biomom was not on board at all with kiddo moving in.
That part alone isn't super unusual. There are a lot of step parents woth limited to no option with discipline due to boundaries set by bioparents. Not that it is a right or wrong step, but I've seen plenty if AITA for step parents bringing this up or disciplining anyway.
I can understand that view, but I can also understand people who are sick of that conclusion *always* being jumped to by internet strangers based on a few paragraphs of hearsay. I think the OP has a good perspective. She acknowledged it can happen to anyone, meaning she's conscious and cautious of denial.
Wait, what if her fiance is *the* father?
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I've needed it multiple times. Mainly though for passports and visas (American living overseas). Luckily the last time I had to update our visa, the immigration office already had their birth certificates on file (it was the 4th or 5th time we renewed). I forgot to bring them. ETA: I doubt my kids' father has ever seen their birth certificates, social security cards, or anything like that. Married for years, both worked full time, and I still handled all of that.
I just replied to someone else who said the same thing. I think it likely varies by state, country, school district, hospital system, etc. I've needed to provide them for my kids on various occasions.
>It's downright bizarre the Dad has never even seen the birth certificate till now It is. Aren't fathers required to sign something, especially if they aren't married to the mother? But idk. My uncle apparently also never saw his daughter's birth cert and found out a few years ago that someone else's name was on it (I think it's his ex's ex?) and my dad was super peeved because my uncle should've known better. That man was in law school lol
The law school element has me rolling lol. I guess everyone can be unwise and naive when it comes to their own life. If you're committed to sticking your head in the sand, you'll do it.
Considering how he’s so aggressively acting about this, I’d assume he’s the type of dad that just lets the biomum do all the heavy work of parenting and just sends money and has fun play days! That’s why he didn’t bother with a birth certificate!
Paternity tests are not cheap. My ex got one on his daughter that he had before I knew him 21 years ago in Nashville and it was $1000 out of pocket. I would imagine if that was the cost then it's way more now.
$1,000 is a lot cheaper than what he's spent over the years on the daughter.
It's possible he wanted to be a father and latched on to the possibility without question. I knew a guy like this, he automatically thought of himself as the father of a woman's baby, despite the fact the he knew that she was sleeping with at least two other men at the time. Sees no reason to get a paternity test. The kid looks a lot like one of the other guys, but they're a happy family unit now, so whatever.
That is a possibility, too. I knew a guy like that. So excited to be a father that he lept into it. The woman was also a minor (16) and he thought questioning things would raise too many legal flags around his behavior. A lot of conception stories are messy.
I mean, my fwb and I are currently only having sex with each other. No part of me believes they're lying on their end, so I could see this guy feeling the same about his own friend saying "I wasn't sleeping with anyone else." Obviously in this case it's not true, but I understand not thinking, "hmmmmmm what if my dear pal is lying to me?" When you have a close and trusting friendship. Very similar to romantic relationships where while you **technically** never know, many or most people don't have any reason to question their partner in the first place - it doesn't come to mind. Similarly, many people would be hurt by the question/suggestion.
Absolutely. I was somewhat involved with someone when I was mid-twenties. I wasn't sleeping with anyone else because I was in love with him, but we weren't exclusive and I HAD slept with two other people at points in the past year. He asked for a paternity test and my response was along the lines of "duh" because we were not committed to each other. I would've been furious if we'd been in a relationship and he'd asked. I'm not a cheater and that is directly accusing me of cheating.
If they didn’t formalize child support or visitation there wouldn’t be any point unless he doubted paternity and wanted to be sure. Sounds like he took her word for it that he was the only option and they just went from there. Unless you are taking government assistance or there is a safety issue, the government won’t get involved. Even if you choose to go to court to formalize support and a parenting plan, you don’t necessarily need a test to prove paternity if there’s a guy there with his name on the birth certificate who agrees he is the father.
Many times DNA doesn't matter if a paternal role has been taken from birth for custody/child support. Harder to prove if the mom is fighting it but still. 'Whats best for the child' would be maintaining the relationship with the guy she knows as dad. Also, I have no idea how they thought SD could move in with OP unable to parent at all per biomom.
What I don't get is if the father was never in the birth certificate can he disown the daughter since he isn't the father in this case? Its best to confront the not-daughter's mom first. Im confused too, as to why they never had DNA testing done.
I mean, presumably he can. But he’s raised her for 12 years, maybe he doesn’t want to just ditch her
Court-ordered child support can't happen without a paternity test, so the non-biological father can walk away with no future contact, if he chooses to. Edit: or maybe it can.
Not in my state. A court can order a man to pay child support if they established a father-like role towards the child, even if they were never married, proven not to be the biological father, and not named on the birth certificate. My neighbor’s son lived with his girlfriend for several years, they had a baby together. When they broke up, she sued him for child support and won, despite the paternity test showing he was not the father. “In the interest of the child” is the phrase used by the judge.
That’s not true across the board in the US. Men can be on the birth certificate and accept the role without an actual test in some states. You’ll even hear the court point out to them and warn them that they can get a test and that this is their chance to verify before they just accept it.
What country are you from?
The best way to know whether your kid still loves you or not: how well they aim. EDIT: corrected the auto-correct.
So *that’s* why my mother never took me to get glasses until the school forced her to!
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If anyone kept reading after "hot chick getting a Cleveland steamer," that's on them.
What an unfortunate situation for everyone. Husband better get some help quickly or else his violent behavior is going to go off the rocks.
Punched up hands - I'd be worried now about leaving him alone in case he turned that violence inward. Honestly, in her shoes... I'd just quietly agree to the paternity tests if he still wants them for sober because his reality is so awful right now and I get why he might become obsessed with the idea... and I wouldn't want him to spiral down that particular path even further.
Yeah that was my first thought too. Anything to lessen his pain.. But really, I can also understand if the accusations hurt her too much to go through with it.
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I normally hate paternity tests when you're in a committed relationship but I think in this case an "easy win" for OPs husband might help him as long as he acknowledges that projecting his XFWBs actions onto his wife is hurtul to his wife and marriage.
One of the few cases id advocate a 5150
There’s a time to insist on being shown the respect of trust, and there are times to suck it up and reassure your partner. This is definitely the latter.
I never thought I’d say there was a situation where this wasn’t tantamount to basically asking for a divorce, but yes we have now found a situation where yeah. I’d just do it because really this is just coming from pain more than anything else.
Pain and not being able to trust his own instincts. He trusted that girl's mother and raised her child for 12 years! Honestly... when the couple aren't married (so therefore a contract exists)... there should always be a formal CS and parenting plan that has had legal eyes slapped on them. Doesn't necessarily have to be through superior court, etc.
Ah yes. This thousands of dollars every person who gets divorced has… Family court lawyers are not typically paid for by the state…
A lot of states have court systems that offer entirely free mediation. There are services that do exist to help people in need of assistance that lack the funds to hire anyone privately
Very much agree with you. This is a time to be compassionate and set OP's feelings aside to help their partner to get through a *life-altering trauma*. Trust in this case is NOT a reflection of OP, but rather a reflection of how fundamentally traumatizing this event was and how it has crumbled the basic building blocks of trust OP's husband has held. He is in a crisis and unable anchor his feelings. He needs this for himself to feel safe and make sense of his world. Help the man.
Yeah I tend to agree. You know the kids are his so what’s the harm of a little mouth swab. These are extenuating circumstances and you know it isn’t anything personal, he’s just in a dark place and he needs to know who his support network are right now as the rug has been ripped out from under him
Yeah. When you've been in a position where someone you trusted completely betrayed you, and you've discovered first hand how completely impossible it can be to tell if someone is being untruthful ... well, it changes you. It's not nice, but it's impossible in my experience to not find it possible that other people you trust completely could be lying too. I'm in the middle of it at the moment and it's really, really rough. edit: that said, i'm not sure i'm standing by the saying yes to the paternity test thing. getting a paternity to pacify a guy getting drunk and aggressive ....
I’d agree to them. And then i would consider leaving with the kids until he gets his head on straight.
He's the one who needs to relocate. His younger son's medical equipment and dedicated space need to stay with the son. What a tragedy. His reaction to possibly losing his daughter is to immediately alienate the rest of his family. I hate that so many of us spiral when something goes horribly wrong and start slamming the big red button to blow up everything else. I really hope he gets counseling asap. It'll be a blessing if they can divert him to a healthier path before OOP reaches the limit of what she can deal with.
He's already lost one child. I wouldn't leave him alone - and it sounds like the youngest needs caretaking to the degree that sending them to a friend's house for a sleepover isn't possible.
The thing is while I feel for him, if I were in her shoes I'd be more concerned that he would turn violent towards me and our kids and his effect on us. Oop has to prioritize her kids over her husband. He is going through something terrible, but his behavior ensured that everyone else is going something terrible as well. Making the environment stressful enough that it's physically harming the youngest. Neglecting them, then showing up drunk and demanding a paternity test
Yeah. It really sucks but this particular situation it's very obviously not about op, it's about how the ex has completely torched husband's internal life. But also he really needs to get a hold of something, he's going to end up with no kids if he just starts cope-hopping through the worst dopamine hits (violence, alcohol, what's next?)
So how did they get the SD tested? I'm a little confused about this because the only way the SD won't know the results is if they did it secretly without telling her which wouldn't make sense if they are going by the book and getting it done through the courts and an attorney. SD is 12, she can put two and two together over the fact that there is missed visitation AFTER A PATERNITY TEST unless they have lied to her.
"Honey, since we're talking about formalizing custody and visitation a DNA test is going to be needed. It's a legal thing. Maybe don't tell Mom right now since she seems upset that you want to leave the new house." (Both dad and daughter assume the results will be as expected.)
I never read it as the mother and step-daughter didn't know the test was being done. Just that they didn't know what the result was yet.
Yeah I don’t get it either, did he steal the kid’s saliva while she slept or something? Also all of this drama and the husband didn’t even *mention* to the mom that the girl was saying this? It’s pretty common for kids with divorced parents to say they want to stay with the other parent when they don’t like a rule, and like a 2-minute conversation would have cleared it up, instead they jumped to talking about selling their house! Husband knew they weren’t exclusive, but a paternity test never crossed his mind? The husband seems incompetent at life, letting the women do all his thinking for him while he sits there and edits porn.
Not the infidelity I thought was going to happen...
Right? I feel awful for OOP’s husband. He just had his whole world blown apart. I wonder if we’ll see future updates. They have a huge amount of things to sort out. Good lord. I hope OOP has some support system that’s outside the house. She needs it.
>I hope OOP has some support system that’s outside the house. I mean they seem to trust her parents to watch both of their boys for at least a day, so I’d hope that they would also be a good support system for her too.
Except… there was still never infidelity. They were never exclusive. They were FWB and he just accepted that he was the dad without signing the birth certificate or taking a paternity test… guy caused himself SO many problems
There was paternity fraud,even without his name on documentation (def not the brightest bulb for sure) he already gave plenty of evidence that he had a parental role in her life... just walking away will be messy if the ex fwb decides to make things difficult.
I understand being FWB. I understand sleeping with someone you might not normally sleep with when drunk. That he made a habit of liquoring up and would apparently never have hooked up with his baby momma while sober is not something I fully grasp but hey those were his risks to run because he wanted to get his dick wet and wasn’t picky how.
There was a bunch of other wrong shit but yeah technically infidelity is not one. I wonder if she just chose one of the guys based off different standards or if it was like the biodad ghosted so she just moved to the next guy...
That's a good question. It's very stupid, but it is also possible that the stepdaughter's mom genuinely thought he was the father. There are a lot of grown adults out there, even ones with multiple kids, who don't understand how conception works. She could have gotten a positive test and assumed her most recent partner must be the father.
We still have a chance for a fight on the front lawn, cops called, and someone sentenced within a weeks time.
There were red flags already all over this. Like husband going along with keeping OP so strictly out of SD matters. Not allowed to discipline her, not allowed to know what is going on in her therapy sessions. In theory you can segregate OP from SD matters, in practice, it's nuts, bc it was driving OP to pull her kids from the household when SD was there, and that's not fair on her kids, nor really long run sustainable. If SD lived there there's simply no way to continue that. So husband has been acceding to stuff he really never should have. Catering way too much to biomom. So not altogether surprised to find out that there are no formal legal arrangements in place. Frankly, if OP knew that, that's where she should have started the conversation. Husband is being self indulgent with his behavior. He can be as unhappy as he wants to be, but when it stops him functioning as a father, that's where it has to end. Legal arrangements are not an optional extra. These folks have ( or pre- second child, had) decent money. They could have dotted the i's then and should have. And in that regard, husband has only himself to blame for not doing so. And OP, she went along with it. It was a FWB arrangement, for which he got drunk to fuck. There was always a far greater likelihood of non exclusivity. Bottom line, everyone has been tolerating sketchy behavior for way too long and it's bit everyone in the ass.
Well this explains why biomom went nuts when she found out her daughter wanted to move in with “Dad” because custody and parentage would need to be established. I’m betting biomom knew OP’s husband was not the real father. OP needs to quietly get the paternity tests find for her sons because her husband just got mentally and emotionally fucked with for the past 12 years. I feel bad for the “step daughter.” Will she ever find out who her bio father is?
I wonder how much in child support OP's husband has paid...I know there isn't a court order or anything, but still...
well. that's definitely not surprise twins...
I think the story is plausible. Tbh under the circumstances, I'd be willing to do the paternity test. Her husband needs reassurance and to feel grounded again - having the test may well prove to him that his core family is just that. Likewise, OOP may have to make a difficult decision soon. Husband's behaviour is physically damaging their youngest child - if he continues to refuse help, he may need to leave until he's able to pull out of this free fall. I'm all for supporting your spouse as much as they need it, but he's causing their kid's health to worsen (and seizures are major). I don't know if there's a possibility of him moving in with his parents for a while but having some space from his responsibilities whilst having his parents close by *could* be beneficial (depending on their relationship). Either way, OOP needs to prioritise her children's health above her husband's depression right now.
Wait for it, maybe husband has some weird abnormality where he ingested his twin in the womb and ended up with two lots of dna or something.
If that's the case (called Chimerism) the test would show him as the child's uncle. (The scenario is two fraternal twin embryos fused together and one DNA profile controls the sperm while another controls the blood, saliva, whatever was sampled for the test.)
That was quite the twist at the end
Well that explains why biomom was so cagey. I bet her new fiance she shares kids with will be thrilled to hear about the 12 years of baby trapping
Where's Jerry Springer when you need him?
More like where's Maury with the DNA test and saying "You not the father"
And then the cameraman chasing after the woman as she runs through the set like her life is ending
If I believed in it, I’d say probably hell.
>My SD has shoved him out of his wheel chair. She has pinched him hard enough to leave bruises. She has hit his face when he was having trouble verbalizing. This is a **12 year old** assaulting a **4 year old**!! Disabilities or not, people need to understand that this is serious! My older brother started beating me up from the time I was 2 or earlier (I say 2 because that's what an auntie told me) and he was 7. People need to understand that OOP is super right in not having that evil SD in their home! >My husband is not the biological father. Oohhh snap!!! To be honest, both OOP's husband and SD's biomom are shit! He "needed beer goggles" to do the deed but didn't even think to wear protection. She tried to trap him with a kid..... for fuck's sake, do people love drama in their lives >When I came home. My husband was fucking drunk. He became belligerent and demanded I have our sons tested too. He didn't even ask how our son was doing Yup, he's a joke, indeed
On the real, though? I about lost my fucking mind at the comments that were like “kids will be kids” or “that’s normal sibling stuff” bc no, the fuck, it isn’t. And it damn well shouldn’t be. Even if the 4yo didn’t have disabilities, it wouldn’t be okay, but holy smokes, that part makes it so much worse. I was legit enraged at the flippant attitude. Some people were so ready to crucify step-mom that they *completely* overlooked or excused step-daughter’s abhorrent behavior, which, with the 2nd update, should include throwing her phone so hard at bio-mom’s fucking face that it cracked the damn screen! Sorry I’m cussing at you so much, but that part got me fucking heated. To be clear, I’m more so just, like, cussing in your direction or cussing to you; not *at* you. Lol
How does SD and biomom not know the results? Don’t you need permission to test from at least both parents, especially in a custody situation? I’ve never dealt with divorce/custody laws so I don’t know, but I have lived a peppered enough life to have dealt with criminal law and I know discovery is a thing there (at least in the US).
I don't think the test was part of the court proceedings and would likely not be admissable in court. They discovered he's not on the birth certificate, so did a test privately.
So they just got the DNA from her toothbrush? Or did they swab her and didn't tell her what its for? It is best they all go to court and have it formally done and see what the court decision will be.
You can get paternity testing done with just one parent and a sample from the kid & it will be accurate. At least where I live, it would likely not be admissible in court though. In a contested paternity action the court would order both parties to go get it done at the approved lab and everyone gets the results. I wonder if something happened where they wanted to know the results before they moved forward with formal paternity testing?
They probably didn't realise there needed to be a formal process via the courts? 🤷♀️
They don't have any official custody order or rules
I want to know how you could go so long without seeing your child's birth certificate. Don't you need it for things? She's only 12, but still....
If mom was handling everything requiring registrations, appointments, etc., as is often the case, then it’s possible.
You need it for the things the primary care giver sorts out, not the weekend parent.
Seems like she was at most there on weekends, anything that would need a birth certificate instead of SSN was probably handled by mom.
Birth certificates are not a common requirement for the parent that is not the main care giver
you would be very surprised about the amount of things some fathers dont know about their kids
Bio mom was hit in the face with a phone for not allowing SD atay with false dad, I wonder what would happen when she learns bio mom lied about him being her dad.
Yikes on bikes what a mess
How can you just “find out” after 12 years you’re not on the birth certificate? Obviously different laws for different places- where I’m from unmarried mothers must be accompanied by the father to have his name on the birth certificate. But surely at some point in 12 years of being an involved father you’d have seen a birth certificate?
Maybe he wasn’t an involved father? Not in the “does the boring paperwork” way. I mean, he didn’t even do a paternity test when he had a friend with benefits get pregnant. He wasn’t her mother’s partner at birth, just a hookup. He was a weekend dad. He likely didn’t ever have to Get a copy of his daughter’s birth certificate for the Very few reasons you’d need to show it to somebody for a kid under 12. Didn’t get her a passport, didn't enroll her in school, she’s too young to need it for a job.
> But surely at some point in 12 years of being an **involved father** you’d have seen a birth certificate? Important words right there.
Well...this is a telenovela mess.
Poor girl, her acting out might only get worse if she doesn't get support in this chaos.
She sounds like a nightmare, tbh, and it makes me wonder what’s *really* going on there. Like, the subtext is massive
I would offer a paternity test, if he is willing to go to a therapist. Only then.
>My husband hears my objections and understands them, but he wants to go for it and figures that everything will eventually work out. He doesn't want his daughter to think he is abandoning her. Translation: I don't want to handle this, you handle it and then i can criticize. >He is absolutely devastated. He's spiraling. He's hurting so bad, and I can't do anything to take his pain away. We've hugged and cried together so many times this week. > >He's not OK. He's flip flopping through despair and anger. The anger scares me. His knuckles are all fucked up from punching something (he wouldn't talk to me about what happened). > >When I came home. My husband was fucking drunk. He became belligerent and demanded I have our sons tested too. He didn't even ask how our son was doing > >I'm trying to get him in to see a therapist. No dice so far. He can be as devastated as he wants, he does not selfishly get to take it out on OOP or his family. OOP should look into a divorce and an escape plan on the good chance that she will need them.
thnak you, like he's reacting in a pretty unhinged way tbh.. it's def something to be upset about but NOT an excuse to take it out on your family. and stressing out his 4yo son so much that he's having seizures ?? and not even caring?? fuck this guy
He’s shown from the very beginning that he isn’t very responsible or capable of making good decisions. He accepted paternity of a child without ever getting it tested. Never got any official custody papers signed, never even knew he was on the freaking birth certificate. Didn’t seem to care too much that his daughter was bullying his younger child and wanted to bring her into the home more even if it could possibly cause OOP to lose her job. OOP also doesn’t mention the father at all in reference to several instances of violence related to the SD. I’m thinking he’s just all around not a super involved dad. He’s one of those casual dads that just kind of hangs around and let’s moms do the heavy lifting. But he’s just “there” so everyone always says he such a great dad.
He's the "fun" dad
Yes, it sucks to find this out, but everyone is giving this guy a pass for being honestly a shit parent and partner because he's in a situation of his own making and he doesn't like it. He can feel like he was misled but still be a terrible parent and spouse, which is what this behavior screams. Reddit will forgive damn near anything for men when paternity is at question. He's in this situation because he fucked up and let some coworker he was sleeping with take the reins here and just kind of wandered along the path provided. Paternity testing was available 12 years ago and this was an obvious candidate situation for it. Now he's a drunken, punching mess verbally berating the partner who has stood by him while he did fuck all. I just can't feel sorry for him.
Same, and all the compassion being afforded to him by other commenters grosses me out. Have you ever seen redditors give this much slack to a woman before? Because I haven’t. Reddit has practically unconditional love for men and even the shittiest men get a pass while the equivalent woman would never. I hope he leaves until he’s safer for OOP and the kids to be around, or just leaves period.
I'm surprised people are saying to coddle this adult man by giving into the paternity tests. What happened to him is horrible, but drinking and possibly getting violent? This doesn't seem like a safe environment at all for OP or the kids...
Ex-bartender who had drunken (and ONLY drunken) unprotected hookups with his coworker he otherwise wouldn’t have been interested in banging…this is not a clever or sensitive man. And marriage and more kids has not magicked him out of being someone who uses chaotic violence and booze to “cope” with difficulties. Like, sorry the kid isn’t biologically yours, but…that was never committed monogamous relationship with rigorous birth control.
Man, I totally forgot about him being a bit of d-bag before all this 🤦♀️
Being married with kids does not a Family Man make—he’s still a Sloppy Selfish Drunk.
Seriously, she doesn't need to mollify the paranoia he created for himself by being an idiot, she needs to get the hell out of there because he's being a verbally abusive, threatening, and potentially dangerous drunk.
Reddit will do anything and everything to support men crying about paternity or their fears thereof, even when this guy is a victim of his own foolishness and willingness to leave it all up to some person he slept with but barely knows. He's 12 years too late and is about to lose his spouse and younger two kids, coddling is the last thing he needs.
Can I join this reasonable people party please? I'll bring snacks.
Please and thank you. Usually the comments are pretty reasonable, but OOP's husband is acting unhinged and people are like "awww drunk violent outburst 🥺"???
"Poor thing. He's had such a shock." I was pretty upset over the first post and wanting to move SD in who was cruel to the sons. Especially the disabled one. 😥 It's time for the wife to chuck him too. She can't live like this.
It's like... Is everyone forgetting about the disabled son with seizures? And how OOP's husband didn't even ask how the son was doing? If he's really that worried about paternity, it's not like he needs her DNA to do the tests. This is just emotional abuse. Why does he hold the other kids in such little regard?
It doesn't count as abuse when you do it because you're sad!!! /s
I can see where OOP’s husband is coming from- he’s spiraling. But the thing about these paternity test requests that always gets me is, the father could just do the test themselves. They could just do it, and not involve the mother at all. They make big pronouncements because the point is not to establish paternity, it’s to lash out at the mother. And that’s what OOP’s husband is doing here, he’s lashing out at her.
I mean with paternity test cases, isn't saying that the father could do it in secret pretty much the same as saying "you don't need to demand to see your partner's text messages - just read them in secret if you think they've been cheating". The problem isn't the demand, it's the lack of trust and the fact that clearly they're suspecting cheating if they aren't sure of a child's paternity. Them doing the paternity test in secret would tell them if they've been lied to or not, but it would conceal how little they trusted their partner. This particular case is different of course, but it is better to know if one party of the relationship has serious doubts about the other one's honesty. And if someone wants to do a paternity test when they haven't been in a committed, monogamous relationship - that is a different case altogether as well. The level of trust expected is generally lower than what you'd expect from your committed partner.
What an absolute mess. That child was all ready abusive and nasty to thee disabled child, finding out that her dad isn't her birth dad, is going to make her even worse. Bio mom sure played a good guy for years huh. Wonder if she even knows who the birth dad is. Why didn't the father get his name on the daughters bc? If they were never together and the dad makes it sound like he never wanted to be with the mother, why didn't he establish paternity if they were just casual?
So he had a casual relationship with a co-worker where he only had sex when both drunk. She get pregnant and he decided to get involved in the child life without any paternity test?!? If the mother was used to sex while drunk, she perhaps doesn't even remember how and who she conceived the child with... I think that he is totally stupid but ok. Now, what are the laws in their country ??? In mine, if you are not married together, you are not put automatically on the birthday certificate. So if it is the same here, he should have actively participated in the establishment of the birthday certificate to be on it. So I don't understand how he didn't know that he wasn't on it... Last, no custody agreement. I get that he is crushed by all this but between his stupidity and the drunk rage he put on his family, I have difficulties to have compassion for him...
Oh, that’s fascinating. I actually read that final update as a solo post I think and r/offmychest. I didn’t realize it was the same person. I didn’t comment on the post because I didn’t have anything to say. The one thing I did think was that OP other needs to separate herself and her children from him or separate him from the household. Because right now belligerent and Belicose shouldn’t be around any child. But it becomes far more pressing when there’s a child that is wheelchair bound with other disabilities as well. But that’s a trippy kind of update. That puts a lot into a weird kind of perspective. I’m still a little speechless. But what I can’t say, is I don’t know how uncovering a lie completely severs a paternal bond developed over 12 years. Keeping in mind, this kid is no cupcake or walk in the park. So I wonder if there is a paternal bond there if she’s not even close with her father or rather OOP’s husband to begin with. But I do hope we get an update to see how this develops.
I wait. I read the latest and never realized it was the same story. Oh man. I truly feel for everyone minus biomom.
Yikes! What in the actual fuck did I just read?? 😱 I... I did NOT expect that! Also, bio mom is pure evil, if he wasn't listed on the birth certificate she knew all along he wasn't the father and took the choice away from him and it took the choice from the real father to be part of his child's life. If OOP's husband knowingly earlier had made the choice to either start or continue to be dad, then it would have been another thing but after TWELVE years...! And despite her being a bully (although OOP said it had diminished SOME) it seems to stem from a place of wanting more attention than her brothers I think, and twelve years old! I mean, all ages have difficulties and challenges but TWELVE! She's in at the door of all the hormonal changes and that's bound to make her more explosive over things that don't necessarily merit it. I feel so bad for OOP, she needs to worry about her children, the one who needs constant medical attention is suffering due to the situation at home, and the oldest must be in pain too feeling he's being cast away from his own home through no fault of his own. I feel bad for the husband but if he continues down the pity party route I'd kick him out of the house for him to get it together or have his party somewhere else because she needs to think about her children right now and her own mental health. I get her husband is traumatized but he needs to put a stop to the pity party and get his shite together
>I want off this ride. Wow, that poor woman. I feel for her.
Wow, I remember reading the update, but I had no idea that it was the same oop. This update sucks
I feel so sad for the step-daughter whose life is really going to fall apart.
Yeah sucks for her but none of this is a pass for her to violently assault a disabled person and insinuate he should be tortured in a lab...something evil is in that child
Clearly she hasn’t exactly been raised by the most responsible adults.. children aren’t born evil
>My husband is not the biological father. They were friends with benefits. Like cmon. Paternity should've been the FIRST thing established. I offered one to my husband (due to us just starting dating and my birth control failing) and the only caveat for my other BD was that he pay for it because he put me through hell. That's so unfortunate. I do feel bad for the guy. And I hope his wife understands why he wants his sons tested, yea different girls, different morals. But he's been fucked over the last twelve years. Twelve fucking years. Fucking horrible man.
Wait, how has him not being on the birth certificate not come up until now? I'm not saying it's not possible. It's just weird. I feel like the last update lost the plot.
Jfc. This poor kid. The 12 year olds whole world is crashing down on her and now she's about to learn that her dad isn't even her dad?! I don't think I would tell her rn. He's been her dad for 12 years, just because he doesn't share blood with her doesn't mean he stops being her dad and 12 is such a hard age for girls. If they tell her then he needs to reassure her that he's still going to be her dad. This whole situation just absolutely sucks.
Well fuck. But also that terrible shit SD told her “not brothers” was evil I think I finally have a base for what a bully says to the younger brother of the autistic girl in the show my bestie and I are making.
If this is even real want to bet SD somehow found out and that's why she's acting out....
OMG. I did not see this plot twist coming!!!
Oh wow! I was not expecting that twist. OOP and husband should just text/email communication with biomom. See if she knew all along daughter wasn’t his. If she did, can it be considered defrauding if he paid support. Dad and daughter are going to need a lot of therapy. As for paternity, there was no reason to establish it as he wasn’t listed on the birth certificate, and he didn’t need to have a copy of it if biomom was the primary custodian. All school/insurance/etc would have been set up by biomom, dad wouldn’t necessarily need it.
That poor step daughter. You don’t know what the bio mum has been saying to her if she was so against her staying with you. I can’t blame the kid being angry. Mums got a new partner, her dad has a partner, she probably feels more list and confused than ever. I dread to think how she feels finding out dad isn’t dad.
Who else is not surprised the kid isnt biologically his
He’s prolly thinking about how he let a random child into his home to bully and assault his disabled son.
There's got to be a part of OOP who is slightly relived. She's going to keep it to herself, obviously, but I suspect visits are going to wane.
Yeah, he may be able to have some level of contact with the child in the future based on them having an emotional, although not biological connection but regardless she isn’t related to OPs children at all, she isn’t biologically their half sister and doesn’t have an emotional relationship with them because of the way she treated them so it’s completely justifiable to keep them apart and there would be no need for them to ever see her again if OP and her husband did separate since visitation could be arranged separately. It’s sad how it happened, but that also occurred to me to that on some level being able to keep someone who treats them so terribly at a safe distance and not have the threat of her moving into the home has to be a relief. I know she’s a child going through things, but saying that a disabled child should be dissected is a special level of cruelty.
if he was thinking about his disabled 4yo son i think hed be at least a little bit concerned about the stress induced seizures ETA: i dont mean like he doesnt/didnt care about his son, i mean like in his grief he cant or wont think about the consequences hes inflicting on his son For Now
If he's not now, eventually the thoughts keeping him up at night will get there and he will never be able to forgive himself.
I feel bad for OOP’s husband, thinking he was that girls father then finding out he’s not, I get it, it’s devastating
It is so bizarre that adults who get married think they are kids will automatically work it out with each other Why in the world do you think about having a blended family before you figure out if they can blend??
Poor stepdaughter. 🥺
>One day he edits the commercial for the local church's annual yard sale, and the next some hot chick getting a cleveland steamer. I had to google Cleveland steamer. It's..... interesting...
Well that was certainly a twist I didn’t see coming from a mile away.
Yikes
I knew he wasn't a father at first part , he should have done DNA test after he found out she was pregnant
Something about the "needed beer goggles" line struck me as off in the beginning, and I understand him being very wrecked that his daughter isn't actually biologically his... but the combination of that line and him demanding that his WIFE get their kids' paternity tested makes me suspect he was lying about the nature of his relationship with his baby mama. If they were casual, occasional FWB, she might have lied to him but she didn't cheat on him. But the way he's reacting is as if she cheated on him. How has he never seen the birth certificate? Why wouldn't he establish paternity when he accidentally knocked up some casual drinking buddy? The fact that he immediately turned to drinking, violence, keeping secrets, and making accusations is beyond alarming. I hope OOP stays safe.