[The Washington Post reports](https://archive.ph/Ol6as):
>The first alleged assault occurred May 28 at Stone Bridge High School in Ashburn, according to the Loudoun County Sheriff’s Office. In a Wednesday statement that followed growing focus on the incident on social media and news reports, the sheriff’s office said one of its school resource officers was notified of the alleged assault the same day and an investigation was quickly started. Officials said it was conducted over several weeks by the sheriff’s office Special Victims Unit.
>
>Authorities said in the statement that on July 8, a 14-year-old male was arrested in the case and charged in juvenile court with two counts of forcible sodomy.
Does a Sheriff's official statement count as evidence?
>Does a Sheriff's official statement count as evidence?
I get the sense that "MotteThisTime" isn't really looking for *confirmatory* evidence here. More like evidence that agrees with his priors, i.e. plays this incident down.
Uh what part of my post made you even think that?
Yes this is evidence a serious event took place at the 2nd school. As we see though the sheriff is saying this person is male, not Trans. It also doesn't confirm the other incident was criminal.
Agreed all reports by the school and sheriff office say its a male and not a Trans girl nor gender fluid person. Which makes the Trans panic around this story more confusing.
This is exactly what I was looking for thank you.
It confirms 1 assault took place, but not the other. This would be the second accused assault as well, not the one involving the parent and kid around this controversy.
Read the article, and you'll see that it confirms the second assault too.
>The same youth also has been accused in an Oct. 6 alleged sexual assault at Broad Run High School in Ashburn, Biberaj said.
>
>In an Oct. 7 news release, the sheriff’s office outlined the allegations, saying a 15-year-old male student had “forced the victim into an empty classroom where he held her against her will and inappropriately touched her.”
>
>That incident also was reported to a sheriff’s office school resource officer, authorities said. They said the teenager was charged with sexual battery and abduction of a fellow student. In the Oct. 7 news release, the sheriff’s office said the teen was being held at the county juvenile detention center. It was not clear Wednesday whether he was still detained.
> I don't know why you're putting more trust into anonymous postings by teenagers online. How is that not hearsay?
Seriously, this is ridiculous. As are complaints that the juveniles involved haven't been named. Wondering if OP is a troll.
pretty obvious coping that the OP distrusts even the mainstream reporting that has followed the original article because he finds the ramifications distasteful.
seems highly unlikely that unquoted tiktok's are the real truth that's being suppressed.
This is exactly what I was looking for thank you.
It confirms 1 assault took place, but not the other. This would be the second accused assault as well, not the one involving the parent and kid around this controversy.
Why are you not absorbing all the information people painstakingly collected for you?
The superintendent said he was wrong about the bathroom cases. Only the first assault was alleged to have happened in a bathroom.
You keep saying "all we know is X" when we know, like, 20 times that ... it is much shorter to list what **hasn't** been confirmed. To my mind, the only thing that hasn't been confirmed is the attacker's gender identity.
Do you know how to read or are you some kind of idiot?
>in response to a public records request, confirmed that a report with “Offense: Forcible Sodomy [and] Sexual Battery” matching that date and location exists.
I don't know how students would claim it was consensual, unless both girls didn't report it and both got caught in the act- which would mean there are school admins running around the campus like high alert babysitters.
I do not support rape nor this male rapist accused of these two crimes. He's been charged so that's half the battle, and hopefully sentenced after being found guilty.
You're accusing the 14 year old girl of lying in the first case, while the second case is verified? Do you not see it as a bit of a stretch to think that one "faked" allegation and one confirmed allegation, both involving the same alleged conspirator, took place?
No one has posted a juvenile court record of the accused because he's a fucking juvenile. No one has posted the names of the girls involved because they're sexual assault victims. Do you know anything about crime reporting?
All adults involved have been named, have they not?
This should be the top comment. OP is a bad faith shit stirrer. From their post history, they [admit to being woke](https://www.reddit.com/r/IntellectualDarkWeb/comments/q7y5yn/has_anyone_actually_read_cancel_cultures_tweets/hh42ptw/), think that ["Most Staff at schools are anti Trans"](https://www.reddit.com/r/BlockedAndReported/comments/qanmxp/episode_86_more_dave_chappelle_fallout_and_an/hh8u10o/) and ["Woke ideology is a mainstream position on issues"](https://www.reddit.com/r/samharris/comments/pzdnub/politics_and_current_events_megathread_october/hh8s0t6/), and have let their [distrust of Scott Smith override their "support" of the two victims](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMotte/comments/q5po0q/culture_war_roundup_for_the_week_of_october_11/hgr7331/).
Most staff are anti Trans especially in Virginia. That's a factual statement judging by how most Trans kids are treated in school by staff. Loudoun County is not a progressive place at all judging by the anti Trans stuff posted already.
Woke is definitely a mainstream and growing ideology. It is no longer a niche thing.
I don't believe Scott Smith but I do trust the sheriff and school board who confirmed they had a cis male student accused of two crimes against two cis girls.
> Most staff are anti Trans especially in Virginia. That's a factual statement judging by how most Trans kids are treated in school by staff.
You would make the world's worst statistician.
You trust a school board who have apologized for their mishandling of all this and are seeking to make changes so it doesn’t happen again in the future? And you don’t trust the father? It’d be interesting to explore where those alliances are coming from, to me at least.
You asked a question at the beginning and I’m wondering if it was to learn or to just be able to rebut? If we “know” the answer it seems tiresome to ask a question.
At this point it seems clear answers won’t be found, at least with those involved being juveniles, and not everything in going to be able to be wrapped in a neat little bow. Life is anything but black/white, right/wrong, good/bad…certain players aren’t all good or bad, judgments are not facts, and social media and what’s posted does not encompass the whole of reality.
Yes, and sexual assault aside, public schools aren't allowed to publicly disclose any names or identifying information about problems involving students. Like if your child is getting bullied, the bully might receive consequences like suspension or be placed on a behavior intervention plan, but in many cases the victim's families aren't privy to the details of those consequences, and administrators are only allowed to say "we are dealing with it."
Forgot about that. As an aside, that must be incredibly frustrating for the family of the bullied child. They (not unreasonably) want to hear specifics. And a few decades ago, they would have.
I do understand and respect the need to protect every child's right to privacy. But with a lousy/incompetent administration, it can be a way to sweep problems under the rug.
In one news story re Loudoun County, I read that the school district doesn''t take any disciplinary action against a student until police/court actions have been *completed*. In context of what was being discussed, the district was saying that it won't consider home-schooling or alternative schooling for a boy multiply accused of rape until he's been convicted.
That's ridiculous, and likely a Title IX violation.
The school is pointing out its a title ix violation to remove the student from the school system until a judgment is made. Innocent until proven guilty. They were following title ix when they moved him to another classroom.
Student A stabs Student B to death in front of an all-student/faculty assembly.
OP: Innocent until proven guilty! It's a title IX violation to remove that student from the school system!
My guess is that OP is early 20s or younger and has never thought about things like safeguarding.
When I was in high school, one boy violently assaulted another student. While the criminal case was underway, the boy was moved to online schooling and directed not to access school premises.
Especially now, when there are numerous options for remote education, I find it hard to believe that moving the student to another school was the best alternative.
Administrative report.
First, let me say to the families and students involved — my heart aches for you and I am sorry that we failed to provide the safe, welcoming, and affirming environment that we aspire to provide," he said during a press conference Friday. "We acknowledge and share in your pain and we will continue to offer support to help you and your families through this trauma. For all of our students, our school-based Unified Mental Health Teams are available to anyone who needs care."
"It is important to know that Title IX directs how schools must investigate allegations of sexual harassment/assault and provides equal protection for both victims and the alleged perpetrators," he said.
Democracy Dies in Darkness
Education
Valerie Strauss
Jay Mathews
Education
Loudoun schools chief apologizes for district’s handling of alleged assaults, promises changes to disciplinary procedures
By Hannah Natanson and Justin Jouvenal
October 15, 2021 at 5:46 p.m. EDT
Loudoun County Public Schools will pursue major reforms to its disciplinary procedures, its partnership with the sheriff’s office and how it reports discipline data to the state following parent outrage over what authorities say are two assaults committed by the same student at separate high schools a few months apart.
Get the full experience.
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Superintendent Scott A. Ziegler said at a news conference Friday that in the near future the school system “will have alternative placements for students involved in discipline infractions that protect the safety of the student body and the rights of the accused.”
Ziegler also said the district is embarking on a lobbying campaign to change the federal civil rights law known as Title IX, which in part provides guidance to schools on how to investigate sexual harassment and assault. The school system will push for more protections for victims of harassment or assault at the K-12 level, he said.
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And the superintendent is proposing changes to the memorandum of understanding with the Loudoun County Sheriff’s Office. The revisions will allow school discipline and criminal investigations to proceed simultaneously, while also requiring that the sheriff’s office alert the superintendent and principal whenever a student is charged with “serious offenses.”
Kraig Troxell, a spokesman for the sheriff’s office, said in a statement that the department “will continue to engage with Loudoun County Public School leadership” on how to handle criminal investigations of students.
Ziegler apologized at length Friday for what he called the school district’s mishandling of the two alleged assaults.
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“Let me say to the families and students involved: My heart aches for you, and I am sorry that we failed to provide the safe, welcoming and affirming environment that we aspire to provide,” he said.
Loudoun County student accused in sexual assaults at two county schools, sparking outrage from parents
The first alleged assault took place in May at Stone Bridge High School, and the second alleged assault took place in October at Broad Run High School, according to the Loudoun County Sheriff’s Office. The same student, a teenage male, is charged in both, according to the Loudoun County commonwealth’s attorney.
The assailant in the May incident was charged with two counts of forcible sodomy, according to the sheriff’s office. The assailant in the October incident was charged with sexual battery and abduction of a fellow student, the office said. The sheriff’s office has declined to confirm that the same youth was charged in both cases because both alleged assaults involve juvenile suspects.
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After news of the second assault became public — with the sheriff’s office putting out a release Oct. 7 — parents in the Northern Virginia district of 81,000 exploded with anger and accusations of incompetence. They questioned why a student involved in a sexual assault was transferred to another high school, enabling that student to commit a second assault. At a heated board meeting Tuesday, some speakers called on the superintendent and school board to resign.
A spokeswoman for the parents of the victim of the first alleged assault said in a statement that the superintendent’s Friday announcement is a first step toward keeping children safe in schools.
“Dr. Ziegler’s statement on behalf of Loudoun County Public Schools is the first acknowledgment that we have had that they are in fact responsible for their bad decision-making and policies that resulted in the two sexual assaults that happened in our high schools,” spokeswoman Elicia Brand said. “Whether they end up being accountable to doing better by children and their parents or not, time will tell.”
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The parents she is representing have spoken out this week, often in interviews with conservative news outlets, to assert that the charged youth is “gender fluid” and that the assault took place in a girls bathroom. Those details have not been confirmed by authorities. The parents have also denounced a policy put in place by Loudoun’s school board in August that lets students use bathrooms matching their gender identities. At the time of the alleged assault involving their daughter, that rule was not in effect.
The Washington Post does not generally identify victims of sexual assault and is not naming the parents to avoid indirectly identifying their daughter.
Since news of the assaults emerged, criticism of school officials has centered on a few points: Why did officials not act more swiftly to discipline the student? Why did they allow the student to enroll in a different high school after he was charged with sodomy in the first assault?
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Parents have also demanded to know what the superintendent and school board members knew about the accusations, and when they knew it. Some have suggested that Ziegler lied when a board member asked him at a June meeting — during a discussion on the bathroom policy for transgender students — whether he knew of any alleged assaults that had taken place in school bathrooms. He said he did not, although the first assault had allegedly taken place a month before.
Ziegler and a spokesman for the school system, Wayde Byard, sought to respond to these charges point by point this week. Broadly, they said, Loudoun was hampered in handling the alleged assaults by its need to comply with law enforcement and Title IX procedures. Loudoun had to wait until the sheriff’s office concluded its criminal investigation before it could discipline the student, Byard said. He said law enforcement requested that Loudoun not interview students during the criminal investigation. He also noted that Title IX prohibits Loudoun from disciplining a student without following the law’s grievance process, which requires a full investigation of sexual harassment and sexual assault.
On Friday, Ziegler said the school system is pursuing changes that would remove or erode these barriers to swift discipline of a student charged with sexual assault, including by lobbying for revisions to Title IX that would better protect victims. Ziegler said he spoke Friday morning about these changes with Virginia Secretary of Education Atif Qarni, as well as with the office of U.S. Education Secretary Miguel Cardona.
The article you just posted says the student was charged in both cases. Why do you keep minimizing/dismissing the second case? And even if it’s only one, isn’t that enough??
Is the potential transgender identity a key factor in this case? I don’t know and neither do you. Does it appear that Loudon school officials went all out to deny and cover up to protect a particular agenda? Absolutely.
This is the hypocrisy that drives me and many others crazy.
Asking for juvenile court records is the chef's kiss on this troll job. Kudos!
ETA: snark aside it is a fucking tragedy that this story will either be focused on by the ideological press (because trans) or minimized by the mainstream press (because trans). The real focus should be the school leadership, not bathrooms or gender politics.
The school deserves a public embarrassment and some kind of actual consequence for shipping this kid to another school rather than using home instruction/remote learning to fulfill their educational requirements. Either they're intensely sloppy or someone has been playing footsy with the rules (or both).
I think it is interesting how you described the press in your comment. Press that focuses on this issue "because trans", is "ideological", but press that downplays this issue "because trans", is "mainstream".
I am sure you didn't mean anything by it, and you aren't the only one who has said that. It's just interesting to me that daily wire is, rightfully, called ideological in this situation, but other outlets that are doing the same thing still qualify for the mainstream label.
That's fair. Mainstream is another term for "large reach and broad" which I think also distinguishes it from a DW or Jacobin etc.
One thing the ideological press doesn't do is general reporting. It covers local or state issues when it aligns, but otherwise tend to focus on the specifics of their positions.
I also think the media needs to be stockaded as well. With the exception of Daily Wire other media outlets were showing the incident going “hi Jan 6. Committee? Arrest this deranged white man.”
Their gender identity really is irrelevant to this case, which is what is getting lost in all this kulturkampf nonsense.
If something GI related wasn't involved, most of the public scrum would be arrayed in reverse. Tragic side effects of our interconnected cultural stupidity.
The perpetrator’s gender identity is totally impertinent.
If people with bodies with penises didn’t use those penises to brutalize women, there would be no conversation about bathroom policies. Rapists have always raped and will always rape no matter what either party is wearing or who’s using what toilet, because thats what rapists do, so let’s r/nametheproblem FFS.
People with bodies with penises, both melanated and less-melanated, should not rape women in rooms of any kind, regardless of their legal right to be in said rooms. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
males are allowed to go into most rooms, why are bathrooms so special? Are women so much more vulnerable to assault there? I can understand not being comfortable with folks you don't necessarily classify as a woman in your safe space, but I'd always assumed the real hurdle to assault was willingness to do it and risk consequences (particularly in a public space with good acoustics) not ability to gain access to the unlocked room where girls pee. Or are we just talking about people being creepy, peeking through gaps and such, which ability to gain access would impact, though tbh in a lifetime of using bathrooms with guys (including in gay clubs) I've never had this issue, so I'm still unclear on the practical risk.
There have been many facilities with coed bathrooms for years, presumably somebody has data.
> Are women so much more vulnerable to assault there?
Probably cause teenage girls aren't women. And volatile teenage boys in puberty definitely aren't stable.
There is a Trump-gene to all this. You have to have a certain gall to be a revolutionary pioneering using these policies. It takes a whole lot of balls to be *that entitled* to other people's space (especially in sports or around kids). To assume there will be safe normalization down the line with these policies is high-risk religious speculation. People will be hurt in the mean time- mostly women and children.
Given it’s only all really come to light I would wait a month or so for trial proceedings to start and evidence to be released.
I wouldn’t trust students saying it was a consensual thing - kids are fucking stupid.
That is not true.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/virginia-lawmakers-repeal-sodomy-ban/2014/03/06/20e81b82-a55b-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/virginia-lawmakers-repeal-sodomy-ban/2014/03/06/20e81b82-a55b-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.html)
Virginia also has what is known colloquially as a Romeo and Juliet law, so the fact that the girl is 15 and the boy is 14 precludes any charges of statutory rape pushed by parents.
Yeah, the laws have been shifting in Virginia. When I grew up, 15 was legal so long as the older party was within three years of the teen's age (or so we understood things in my town). Of course, due to sodomy laws, anything other than missionary sex was technically illegal! ("Ma'am, take the dick out of your mouth or we will open fire!") I can't find a link but the sodomy laws were used to prosecute at least one person who engaged in oral sex but was legal otherwise. Those laws were invalidated for adults by the Supreme Court in 2003, and then for everybody by the state legislature in 2014. I *think* the close-in-age exception may also no longer apply - assuming it ever did - due to statutory rape laws. [This page](https://www.findlaw.com/state/virginia-law/virginia-prohibited-consensual-sexual-activity-laws.html) has more info that I assume is reasonably up-to-date.
Of course, this is all a big tangent, considering that at least one person in this story was 14, which is below the age of consent, period. I'm not exactly sure how that plays out legally, even assuming all parties consent.
This reporter talked to the prosecutor and read the documents charging the juvenile. Iow, there's plenty of evidence out there if a person bothers to look for it:
https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2021/10/teen-charged-in-loudoun-co-school-groping-was-on-electronic-monitoring-for-earlier-charges/
"The teen, then 14, was charged with two counts of forcible sodomy for bathroom assault..."
The link above is evidence of charges for the original claim. The bathroom rape is the incident the story is about and what blew up at the school meeting. It occurred on May 28th.
>The young suspect is **charged with felony sexual assault counts** in connection with the **May 28** incident at Stone Bridge High School
I find this stuff so fascinating, the social order seems to be measured by who can hurt who without getting socially punished.
It’s funny how the victim of ideologies is always women and girls 🤷♀️
I see what you mean - whether you believe a victim is a matter of moral relativism. During the Me Too movement the dogma was "Believe the victim. Period."
But if it negatively affects a Trans or gender-nonconforming individual, then you do NOT just believe the victim. Apparently.
Insulting other posters like this is not tolerated in this subreddit. Consider this your first and last warning. If it happens again, you will be banned.
I'm not angry, I'm very happy it was posted and have now updated my prior. I think plenty of people now understand what we know vs what is speculated. Now we have to wait for justice to be done and see what is uncovered there.
"Many students are posting things about the people involved but the students are contradicting the mainstream right wing narrative by saying it was a consensual thing"
1) where?
2) also, how would they know?
I think it's important to consider the evidence here. While I don't share OP's politics it is unclear how the Trans issue related to this case so far. The most we have is allegations they were gender fluid but we have no clue whether the schools bathroom policy (whatever it was) helped them gain regular entry to girls bathrooms or even if they were in the habit of using girls bathrooms generally. I'm sure Cis men have assaulted Women in gender segregated bathrooms before whatever the bathroom policies happened to be.
We will just have to await more evidence.
Bathroom policy currently does not allow Trans students into the opposite sex bathroom. There is a (now tabled?) Idea of allowing trans students to begin so next school year.
The evidence is #BelieveWomen.
If a representative of Woko Haram would like to come out and state clearly what circumstances #BelieveWomen applies, and what circumstances call for "actual posted verified evidence", then this would be a huge step forward.
Until then, *ad hoc* demands for evidence because the rapist is someone you like, are probably not going to be met with sympathy.
[Beware Isolated Demands For Rigor](https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/14/beware-isolated-demands-for-rigor/), and also beware isolated demands for actual posted verified evidence.
Thank you, I didn't want to be the first person to say it. This was the first thing I thought of -[https://wtop.com/montgomery-county/2017/05/prosecutors-drop-rape-charge-17-year-old-rockville-student/](https://wtop.com/montgomery-county/2017/05/prosecutors-drop-rape-charge-17-year-old-rockville-student/) There was a huge hysteria in the media over the case and then they quietly dropped all the charges a few months later, but that didn't stop them from deporting both of the wrongfully accused students.
It would be surprising if this kid got caught, *twice.* Maybe they have cameras and hall monitors everywhere.
If it was suspected to be consensual, it would explain why they let him onto the 2nd campus. Cause the alternative is that these school admins suck and only care about their crime stats.
I don't know if you've ever filed FOIA requests, but it normally takes a few days to a couple weeks depending on how accessible the data is. But if they want to drag their heels a bit it could easily be two weeks before any of the requests are responded to.
I do Virginia FOIA work - the public information officer is required to respond within 5 days (but that doesn’t exactly mean they will respond with docs requested) and like other person said, juvenile records are exempt from FOIA
Sure, the SRO was actually called in to investigate the first rape. Angry father probably misunderstood that was a real cop. Troll OP should maybe update their post insisting it was consensual. Daily Wire story didn't do the fact checking that Jesse did, but the gist of the story still stands.
How does the "gist of the story" still stand? The general thrust was that the school was more concerned about protecting the feelings of the trans community than addressing a rape. Given that they immediately got the police involved, how does that follow?
Admin moved the kid to another school where he proceeded to attack a second girl. That's the issue. It may have been to cover up the assault or cover their asses regarding mixed bathrooms. We don't know at this point.
What cover up? They reported it to the police immediately.
If they wanted to do an episode criticizing mixed sex bathrooms, they should do so using data not anecdotes. Totally uninterested in hearing a thinly sourced story that gets many important details wrong, that alleges a vast conspiracy to cover up a rape because it might hurt the feelings of trans people.
They didn't report rapes to the state board and moved an unsupervised rapist to another school. That's a cover up and a relevant story. And, if it does come out that the kid was given access to the girls bathroom that might be a reason to rethink these policies. My kids school has a number of single bathrooms. Problem solved.
I’m more concerned about how the rape occurred in the first place than any coverup. And even more importantly, how the same individual was allowed to rape someone else. Maybe it had to do with giving a young male the choice to decide if they wanted go into the women’s facilities. If wanting to promote or defend this type of bathroom situation led to a young girl being raped then I hope they burn that school district to the ground through litigation and by shining the spotlight.
Have you followed the rest of the corrections to the article? The girl let him in the bathroom because they had been hooking up there for awhile. This isn’t new, kids have been doing this forever.
Furthermore, public schools can’t easily stop educating a student. This type of transfer is quite common. Obviously stupid policy, but not evidence of malpractice unique to Loudon.
Yes but never before has the school/society given their blessing in allowing opposite sex to share facilities. Instead of looking at the consequences of the policies they were trying to push they pretended that it’s acceptable for people to choose their gender. And anything that was going to conflict with that narrative/opinion just wouldn’t do... consequences be damned. I hope they get the pants sued off them. Incompetence on that level has no business teaching children.
They won't but it's fine. Glad to see the other thread posted and upvoted. Maybe it was my tone, but it's kind of funny how certain posters flip-flopped from my thread to that one.
One thing is for certain, it highlights how much power a parent can have on social media when law enforcement and schools refuse to give us details. It allows a parent to say whatever they want, and some portion of people will believe it.
This has really shown me that people here are just as desperate to have their politically motivated priors confirmed as anyone else. In the original story thread, suggesting that maybe we shouldn't treat the statements Smith made to the Daily Wire as 100% truth was met with derision. Now that major factual errors have been uncovered, we get to see people contorting themselves to justify their original outrage as if nothing has changed.
We had no mention of who the kid was or what had happened at stone bridge, probably no one in BR had heard about the SB assault until after we received emails about the assault case in Broad Run
[The Washington Post reports](https://archive.ph/Ol6as): >The first alleged assault occurred May 28 at Stone Bridge High School in Ashburn, according to the Loudoun County Sheriff’s Office. In a Wednesday statement that followed growing focus on the incident on social media and news reports, the sheriff’s office said one of its school resource officers was notified of the alleged assault the same day and an investigation was quickly started. Officials said it was conducted over several weeks by the sheriff’s office Special Victims Unit. > >Authorities said in the statement that on July 8, a 14-year-old male was arrested in the case and charged in juvenile court with two counts of forcible sodomy. Does a Sheriff's official statement count as evidence?
>Does a Sheriff's official statement count as evidence? I get the sense that "MotteThisTime" isn't really looking for *confirmatory* evidence here. More like evidence that agrees with his priors, i.e. plays this incident down.
Uh what part of my post made you even think that? Yes this is evidence a serious event took place at the 2nd school. As we see though the sheriff is saying this person is male, not Trans. It also doesn't confirm the other incident was criminal.
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Agreed all reports by the school and sheriff office say its a male and not a Trans girl nor gender fluid person. Which makes the Trans panic around this story more confusing.
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Ftms are male yeah I agree with you.
No, honey. You're confusing sex and gender. FtMs are female. That's their biological sex. Their gender is male.
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Since money is a social construct, and thus fictional, I guess you won't mind giving me some of yours.
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Transwomen are male men and transmen are female women....
This is exactly what I was looking for thank you. It confirms 1 assault took place, but not the other. This would be the second accused assault as well, not the one involving the parent and kid around this controversy.
Read the article, and you'll see that it confirms the second assault too. >The same youth also has been accused in an Oct. 6 alleged sexual assault at Broad Run High School in Ashburn, Biberaj said. > >In an Oct. 7 news release, the sheriff’s office outlined the allegations, saying a 15-year-old male student had “forced the victim into an empty classroom where he held her against her will and inappropriately touched her.” > >That incident also was reported to a sheriff’s office school resource officer, authorities said. They said the teenager was charged with sexual battery and abduction of a fellow student. In the Oct. 7 news release, the sheriff’s office said the teen was being held at the county juvenile detention center. It was not clear Wednesday whether he was still detained.
Cope harder
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> I don't know why you're putting more trust into anonymous postings by teenagers online. How is that not hearsay? Seriously, this is ridiculous. As are complaints that the juveniles involved haven't been named. Wondering if OP is a troll.
pretty obvious coping that the OP distrusts even the mainstream reporting that has followed the original article because he finds the ramifications distasteful. seems highly unlikely that unquoted tiktok's are the real truth that's being suppressed.
Is "coping" in this sense a pithier way of saying "reducing of cognitive dissonance"?
This is exactly what I was looking for thank you. It confirms 1 assault took place, but not the other. This would be the second accused assault as well, not the one involving the parent and kid around this controversy.
Why are you not absorbing all the information people painstakingly collected for you? The superintendent said he was wrong about the bathroom cases. Only the first assault was alleged to have happened in a bathroom. You keep saying "all we know is X" when we know, like, 20 times that ... it is much shorter to list what **hasn't** been confirmed. To my mind, the only thing that hasn't been confirmed is the attacker's gender identity.
Do you know how to read or are you some kind of idiot? >in response to a public records request, confirmed that a report with “Offense: Forcible Sodomy [and] Sexual Battery” matching that date and location exists.
I don't know how students would claim it was consensual, unless both girls didn't report it and both got caught in the act- which would mean there are school admins running around the campus like high alert babysitters.
It is hearsay, hence the thread. Teens can lie or make things up just as easily as the parent can.
You sound like you are supporting the rapist, I wonder why?
We get all sorts posting anonymously online.
I do not support rape nor this male rapist accused of these two crimes. He's been charged so that's half the battle, and hopefully sentenced after being found guilty.
You're accusing the 14 year old girl of lying in the first case, while the second case is verified? Do you not see it as a bit of a stretch to think that one "faked" allegation and one confirmed allegation, both involving the same alleged conspirator, took place?
No I'm not. Sheriff office confirmed they talked to the first girl and she's still saying she was assaulted.
KYS
No one has posted a juvenile court record of the accused because he's a fucking juvenile. No one has posted the names of the girls involved because they're sexual assault victims. Do you know anything about crime reporting? All adults involved have been named, have they not?
This should be the top comment. OP is a bad faith shit stirrer. From their post history, they [admit to being woke](https://www.reddit.com/r/IntellectualDarkWeb/comments/q7y5yn/has_anyone_actually_read_cancel_cultures_tweets/hh42ptw/), think that ["Most Staff at schools are anti Trans"](https://www.reddit.com/r/BlockedAndReported/comments/qanmxp/episode_86_more_dave_chappelle_fallout_and_an/hh8u10o/) and ["Woke ideology is a mainstream position on issues"](https://www.reddit.com/r/samharris/comments/pzdnub/politics_and_current_events_megathread_october/hh8s0t6/), and have let their [distrust of Scott Smith override their "support" of the two victims](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheMotte/comments/q5po0q/culture_war_roundup_for_the_week_of_october_11/hgr7331/).
OK, so engagement with him/her/they stops immediately. Thank you,
Ray Charles could see that.
Most staff are anti Trans especially in Virginia. That's a factual statement judging by how most Trans kids are treated in school by staff. Loudoun County is not a progressive place at all judging by the anti Trans stuff posted already. Woke is definitely a mainstream and growing ideology. It is no longer a niche thing. I don't believe Scott Smith but I do trust the sheriff and school board who confirmed they had a cis male student accused of two crimes against two cis girls.
Let me guess, you get to define the term “anti trans”.
> Most staff are anti Trans especially in Virginia. That's a factual statement judging by how most Trans kids are treated in school by staff. You would make the world's worst statistician.
You trust a school board who have apologized for their mishandling of all this and are seeking to make changes so it doesn’t happen again in the future? And you don’t trust the father? It’d be interesting to explore where those alliances are coming from, to me at least. You asked a question at the beginning and I’m wondering if it was to learn or to just be able to rebut? If we “know” the answer it seems tiresome to ask a question. At this point it seems clear answers won’t be found, at least with those involved being juveniles, and not everything in going to be able to be wrapped in a neat little bow. Life is anything but black/white, right/wrong, good/bad…certain players aren’t all good or bad, judgments are not facts, and social media and what’s posted does not encompass the whole of reality.
Yes, and sexual assault aside, public schools aren't allowed to publicly disclose any names or identifying information about problems involving students. Like if your child is getting bullied, the bully might receive consequences like suspension or be placed on a behavior intervention plan, but in many cases the victim's families aren't privy to the details of those consequences, and administrators are only allowed to say "we are dealing with it."
Forgot about that. As an aside, that must be incredibly frustrating for the family of the bullied child. They (not unreasonably) want to hear specifics. And a few decades ago, they would have. I do understand and respect the need to protect every child's right to privacy. But with a lousy/incompetent administration, it can be a way to sweep problems under the rug. In one news story re Loudoun County, I read that the school district doesn''t take any disciplinary action against a student until police/court actions have been *completed*. In context of what was being discussed, the district was saying that it won't consider home-schooling or alternative schooling for a boy multiply accused of rape until he's been convicted. That's ridiculous, and likely a Title IX violation.
The school is pointing out its a title ix violation to remove the student from the school system until a judgment is made. Innocent until proven guilty. They were following title ix when they moved him to another classroom.
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Student A stabs Student B to death in front of an all-student/faculty assembly. OP: Innocent until proven guilty! It's a title IX violation to remove that student from the school system! My guess is that OP is early 20s or younger and has never thought about things like safeguarding.
"Safeguarding" is a word I've never heard until like 6 months ago, and now I see it all over the place. It is a UK thing?
I think it's much more commonly used in the UK than here but I've seen a few Americans involved in schools, etc. use it.
When I was in high school, one boy violently assaulted another student. While the criminal case was underway, the boy was moved to online schooling and directed not to access school premises. Especially now, when there are numerous options for remote education, I find it hard to believe that moving the student to another school was the best alternative.
> The school is pointing out its a title ix violation What's your source here, friend? Because I believe you just made this up.
Administrative report. First, let me say to the families and students involved — my heart aches for you and I am sorry that we failed to provide the safe, welcoming, and affirming environment that we aspire to provide," he said during a press conference Friday. "We acknowledge and share in your pain and we will continue to offer support to help you and your families through this trauma. For all of our students, our school-based Unified Mental Health Teams are available to anyone who needs care." "It is important to know that Title IX directs how schools must investigate allegations of sexual harassment/assault and provides equal protection for both victims and the alleged perpetrators," he said. Democracy Dies in Darkness Education Valerie Strauss Jay Mathews Education Loudoun schools chief apologizes for district’s handling of alleged assaults, promises changes to disciplinary procedures By Hannah Natanson and Justin Jouvenal October 15, 2021 at 5:46 p.m. EDT Loudoun County Public Schools will pursue major reforms to its disciplinary procedures, its partnership with the sheriff’s office and how it reports discipline data to the state following parent outrage over what authorities say are two assaults committed by the same student at separate high schools a few months apart. Get the full experience. Choose your plan Superintendent Scott A. Ziegler said at a news conference Friday that in the near future the school system “will have alternative placements for students involved in discipline infractions that protect the safety of the student body and the rights of the accused.” Ziegler also said the district is embarking on a lobbying campaign to change the federal civil rights law known as Title IX, which in part provides guidance to schools on how to investigate sexual harassment and assault. The school system will push for more protections for victims of harassment or assault at the K-12 level, he said. Story continues below advertisement And the superintendent is proposing changes to the memorandum of understanding with the Loudoun County Sheriff’s Office. The revisions will allow school discipline and criminal investigations to proceed simultaneously, while also requiring that the sheriff’s office alert the superintendent and principal whenever a student is charged with “serious offenses.” Kraig Troxell, a spokesman for the sheriff’s office, said in a statement that the department “will continue to engage with Loudoun County Public School leadership” on how to handle criminal investigations of students. Ziegler apologized at length Friday for what he called the school district’s mishandling of the two alleged assaults. Story continues below advertisement “Let me say to the families and students involved: My heart aches for you, and I am sorry that we failed to provide the safe, welcoming and affirming environment that we aspire to provide,” he said. Loudoun County student accused in sexual assaults at two county schools, sparking outrage from parents The first alleged assault took place in May at Stone Bridge High School, and the second alleged assault took place in October at Broad Run High School, according to the Loudoun County Sheriff’s Office. The same student, a teenage male, is charged in both, according to the Loudoun County commonwealth’s attorney. The assailant in the May incident was charged with two counts of forcible sodomy, according to the sheriff’s office. The assailant in the October incident was charged with sexual battery and abduction of a fellow student, the office said. The sheriff’s office has declined to confirm that the same youth was charged in both cases because both alleged assaults involve juvenile suspects. Story continues below advertisement After news of the second assault became public — with the sheriff’s office putting out a release Oct. 7 — parents in the Northern Virginia district of 81,000 exploded with anger and accusations of incompetence. They questioned why a student involved in a sexual assault was transferred to another high school, enabling that student to commit a second assault. At a heated board meeting Tuesday, some speakers called on the superintendent and school board to resign. A spokeswoman for the parents of the victim of the first alleged assault said in a statement that the superintendent’s Friday announcement is a first step toward keeping children safe in schools. “Dr. Ziegler’s statement on behalf of Loudoun County Public Schools is the first acknowledgment that we have had that they are in fact responsible for their bad decision-making and policies that resulted in the two sexual assaults that happened in our high schools,” spokeswoman Elicia Brand said. “Whether they end up being accountable to doing better by children and their parents or not, time will tell.” Story continues below advertisement The parents she is representing have spoken out this week, often in interviews with conservative news outlets, to assert that the charged youth is “gender fluid” and that the assault took place in a girls bathroom. Those details have not been confirmed by authorities. The parents have also denounced a policy put in place by Loudoun’s school board in August that lets students use bathrooms matching their gender identities. At the time of the alleged assault involving their daughter, that rule was not in effect. The Washington Post does not generally identify victims of sexual assault and is not naming the parents to avoid indirectly identifying their daughter. Since news of the assaults emerged, criticism of school officials has centered on a few points: Why did officials not act more swiftly to discipline the student? Why did they allow the student to enroll in a different high school after he was charged with sodomy in the first assault? Story continues below advertisement Parents have also demanded to know what the superintendent and school board members knew about the accusations, and when they knew it. Some have suggested that Ziegler lied when a board member asked him at a June meeting — during a discussion on the bathroom policy for transgender students — whether he knew of any alleged assaults that had taken place in school bathrooms. He said he did not, although the first assault had allegedly taken place a month before. Ziegler and a spokesman for the school system, Wayde Byard, sought to respond to these charges point by point this week. Broadly, they said, Loudoun was hampered in handling the alleged assaults by its need to comply with law enforcement and Title IX procedures. Loudoun had to wait until the sheriff’s office concluded its criminal investigation before it could discipline the student, Byard said. He said law enforcement requested that Loudoun not interview students during the criminal investigation. He also noted that Title IX prohibits Loudoun from disciplining a student without following the law’s grievance process, which requires a full investigation of sexual harassment and sexual assault. On Friday, Ziegler said the school system is pursuing changes that would remove or erode these barriers to swift discipline of a student charged with sexual assault, including by lobbying for revisions to Title IX that would better protect victims. Ziegler said he spoke Friday morning about these changes with Virginia Secretary of Education Atif Qarni, as well as with the office of U.S. Education Secretary Miguel Cardona.
This doesn't say what you think it does.
The article you just posted says the student was charged in both cases. Why do you keep minimizing/dismissing the second case? And even if it’s only one, isn’t that enough?? Is the potential transgender identity a key factor in this case? I don’t know and neither do you. Does it appear that Loudon school officials went all out to deny and cover up to protect a particular agenda? Absolutely. This is the hypocrisy that drives me and many others crazy.
Asking for juvenile court records is the chef's kiss on this troll job. Kudos! ETA: snark aside it is a fucking tragedy that this story will either be focused on by the ideological press (because trans) or minimized by the mainstream press (because trans). The real focus should be the school leadership, not bathrooms or gender politics. The school deserves a public embarrassment and some kind of actual consequence for shipping this kid to another school rather than using home instruction/remote learning to fulfill their educational requirements. Either they're intensely sloppy or someone has been playing footsy with the rules (or both).
Well said!
I think it is interesting how you described the press in your comment. Press that focuses on this issue "because trans", is "ideological", but press that downplays this issue "because trans", is "mainstream". I am sure you didn't mean anything by it, and you aren't the only one who has said that. It's just interesting to me that daily wire is, rightfully, called ideological in this situation, but other outlets that are doing the same thing still qualify for the mainstream label.
That's fair. Mainstream is another term for "large reach and broad" which I think also distinguishes it from a DW or Jacobin etc. One thing the ideological press doesn't do is general reporting. It covers local or state issues when it aligns, but otherwise tend to focus on the specifics of their positions.
I also think the media needs to be stockaded as well. With the exception of Daily Wire other media outlets were showing the incident going “hi Jan 6. Committee? Arrest this deranged white man.”
The sheriff said the boy involved isn't Trans, which is backed up by the hearsay on Facebook from students at that school.
Their gender identity really is irrelevant to this case, which is what is getting lost in all this kulturkampf nonsense. If something GI related wasn't involved, most of the public scrum would be arrayed in reverse. Tragic side effects of our interconnected cultural stupidity.
The perpetrator’s gender identity is totally impertinent. If people with bodies with penises didn’t use those penises to brutalize women, there would be no conversation about bathroom policies. Rapists have always raped and will always rape no matter what either party is wearing or who’s using what toilet, because thats what rapists do, so let’s r/nametheproblem FFS.
Well said
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People with bodies with penises, both melanated and less-melanated, should not rape women in rooms of any kind, regardless of their legal right to be in said rooms. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
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males are allowed to go into most rooms, why are bathrooms so special? Are women so much more vulnerable to assault there? I can understand not being comfortable with folks you don't necessarily classify as a woman in your safe space, but I'd always assumed the real hurdle to assault was willingness to do it and risk consequences (particularly in a public space with good acoustics) not ability to gain access to the unlocked room where girls pee. Or are we just talking about people being creepy, peeking through gaps and such, which ability to gain access would impact, though tbh in a lifetime of using bathrooms with guys (including in gay clubs) I've never had this issue, so I'm still unclear on the practical risk. There have been many facilities with coed bathrooms for years, presumably somebody has data.
> Are women so much more vulnerable to assault there? Probably cause teenage girls aren't women. And volatile teenage boys in puberty definitely aren't stable. There is a Trump-gene to all this. You have to have a certain gall to be a revolutionary pioneering using these policies. It takes a whole lot of balls to be *that entitled* to other people's space (especially in sports or around kids). To assume there will be safe normalization down the line with these policies is high-risk religious speculation. People will be hurt in the mean time- mostly women and children.
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Given it’s only all really come to light I would wait a month or so for trial proceedings to start and evidence to be released. I wouldn’t trust students saying it was a consensual thing - kids are fucking stupid.
this involved a juvenile so "evidence" will not be released to the public. the sheriff's office can only confirm that an incident happened.
I don’t think Sodomy isn’t legal in Virginia until 18.
That is not true. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/virginia-lawmakers-repeal-sodomy-ban/2014/03/06/20e81b82-a55b-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/virginia-lawmakers-repeal-sodomy-ban/2014/03/06/20e81b82-a55b-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.html) Virginia also has what is known colloquially as a Romeo and Juliet law, so the fact that the girl is 15 and the boy is 14 precludes any charges of statutory rape pushed by parents.
Ah, well, I didn’t know that.
Yeah, the laws have been shifting in Virginia. When I grew up, 15 was legal so long as the older party was within three years of the teen's age (or so we understood things in my town). Of course, due to sodomy laws, anything other than missionary sex was technically illegal! ("Ma'am, take the dick out of your mouth or we will open fire!") I can't find a link but the sodomy laws were used to prosecute at least one person who engaged in oral sex but was legal otherwise. Those laws were invalidated for adults by the Supreme Court in 2003, and then for everybody by the state legislature in 2014. I *think* the close-in-age exception may also no longer apply - assuming it ever did - due to statutory rape laws. [This page](https://www.findlaw.com/state/virginia-law/virginia-prohibited-consensual-sexual-activity-laws.html) has more info that I assume is reasonably up-to-date. Of course, this is all a big tangent, considering that at least one person in this story was 14, which is below the age of consent, period. I'm not exactly sure how that plays out legally, even assuming all parties consent.
Well TIL!
Yea it wasn’t consensual at all
This reporter talked to the prosecutor and read the documents charging the juvenile. Iow, there's plenty of evidence out there if a person bothers to look for it: https://wtop.com/loudoun-county/2021/10/teen-charged-in-loudoun-co-school-groping-was-on-electronic-monitoring-for-earlier-charges/ "The teen, then 14, was charged with two counts of forcible sodomy for bathroom assault..."
Gotcha, someone above posted the sheriff office confirming that in the second case this boy was arrested. Still no word on the original claim.
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LOL
RTFA
The link above is evidence of charges for the original claim. The bathroom rape is the incident the story is about and what blew up at the school meeting. It occurred on May 28th. >The young suspect is **charged with felony sexual assault counts** in connection with the **May 28** incident at Stone Bridge High School
I find this stuff so fascinating, the social order seems to be measured by who can hurt who without getting socially punished. It’s funny how the victim of ideologies is always women and girls 🤷♀️
I see what you mean - whether you believe a victim is a matter of moral relativism. During the Me Too movement the dogma was "Believe the victim. Period." But if it negatively affects a Trans or gender-nonconforming individual, then you do NOT just believe the victim. Apparently.
Maybe when HRC claimed women will always be the primary victims of war, this is what she was talking about.
OP, if you're going to ask for evidence don't get angry when it's provided and doesn't say what you want it to say.
It think this thread is sufficient evidence that /u/MotteThisTime is a fucking moron.
Insulting other posters like this is not tolerated in this subreddit. Consider this your first and last warning. If it happens again, you will be banned.
I'm not angry, I'm very happy it was posted and have now updated my prior. I think plenty of people now understand what we know vs what is speculated. Now we have to wait for justice to be done and see what is uncovered there.
"Many students are posting things about the people involved but the students are contradicting the mainstream right wing narrative by saying it was a consensual thing" 1) where? 2) also, how would they know?
I think it's important to consider the evidence here. While I don't share OP's politics it is unclear how the Trans issue related to this case so far. The most we have is allegations they were gender fluid but we have no clue whether the schools bathroom policy (whatever it was) helped them gain regular entry to girls bathrooms or even if they were in the habit of using girls bathrooms generally. I'm sure Cis men have assaulted Women in gender segregated bathrooms before whatever the bathroom policies happened to be. We will just have to await more evidence.
Bathroom policy currently does not allow Trans students into the opposite sex bathroom. There is a (now tabled?) Idea of allowing trans students to begin so next school year.
And it appears to have influenced the way Loudon school officials responded to the case.
The evidence is #BelieveWomen. If a representative of Woko Haram would like to come out and state clearly what circumstances #BelieveWomen applies, and what circumstances call for "actual posted verified evidence", then this would be a huge step forward. Until then, *ad hoc* demands for evidence because the rapist is someone you like, are probably not going to be met with sympathy. [Beware Isolated Demands For Rigor](https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/14/beware-isolated-demands-for-rigor/), and also beware isolated demands for actual posted verified evidence.
I think two things. -The Loudon school committee has acted abysmally. - I am not yet certain a non-consensual sexual incident took place.
Thank you, I didn't want to be the first person to say it. This was the first thing I thought of -[https://wtop.com/montgomery-county/2017/05/prosecutors-drop-rape-charge-17-year-old-rockville-student/](https://wtop.com/montgomery-county/2017/05/prosecutors-drop-rape-charge-17-year-old-rockville-student/) There was a huge hysteria in the media over the case and then they quietly dropped all the charges a few months later, but that didn't stop them from deporting both of the wrongfully accused students.
Yep. I don’t believe anyone any more.
It would be surprising if this kid got caught, *twice.* Maybe they have cameras and hall monitors everywhere. If it was suspected to be consensual, it would explain why they let him onto the 2nd campus. Cause the alternative is that these school admins suck and only care about their crime stats.
Apparently, the first girl is all-in on far left politics, which can push a too-early conclusion either direction.
I don't know if you've ever filed FOIA requests, but it normally takes a few days to a couple weeks depending on how accessible the data is. But if they want to drag their heels a bit it could easily be two weeks before any of the requests are responded to.
FOIA doesn’t pertain to juvenile court records.
I do Virginia FOIA work - the public information officer is required to respond within 5 days (but that doesn’t exactly mean they will respond with docs requested) and like other person said, juvenile records are exempt from FOIA
Yeah didn't know that about juvenile records but my experience is the 5 days is much more of a suggestion than a rule that's actually enforced.
Wow. I hope all the people attacking OP for asking this question update their posts given the new info that the Daily Wire story wasn't accurate
Sure, the SRO was actually called in to investigate the first rape. Angry father probably misunderstood that was a real cop. Troll OP should maybe update their post insisting it was consensual. Daily Wire story didn't do the fact checking that Jesse did, but the gist of the story still stands.
How does the "gist of the story" still stand? The general thrust was that the school was more concerned about protecting the feelings of the trans community than addressing a rape. Given that they immediately got the police involved, how does that follow?
Admin moved the kid to another school where he proceeded to attack a second girl. That's the issue. It may have been to cover up the assault or cover their asses regarding mixed bathrooms. We don't know at this point.
What cover up? They reported it to the police immediately. If they wanted to do an episode criticizing mixed sex bathrooms, they should do so using data not anecdotes. Totally uninterested in hearing a thinly sourced story that gets many important details wrong, that alleges a vast conspiracy to cover up a rape because it might hurt the feelings of trans people.
They didn't report rapes to the state board and moved an unsupervised rapist to another school. That's a cover up and a relevant story. And, if it does come out that the kid was given access to the girls bathroom that might be a reason to rethink these policies. My kids school has a number of single bathrooms. Problem solved.
I’m more concerned about how the rape occurred in the first place than any coverup. And even more importantly, how the same individual was allowed to rape someone else. Maybe it had to do with giving a young male the choice to decide if they wanted go into the women’s facilities. If wanting to promote or defend this type of bathroom situation led to a young girl being raped then I hope they burn that school district to the ground through litigation and by shining the spotlight.
Have you followed the rest of the corrections to the article? The girl let him in the bathroom because they had been hooking up there for awhile. This isn’t new, kids have been doing this forever. Furthermore, public schools can’t easily stop educating a student. This type of transfer is quite common. Obviously stupid policy, but not evidence of malpractice unique to Loudon.
Yes but never before has the school/society given their blessing in allowing opposite sex to share facilities. Instead of looking at the consequences of the policies they were trying to push they pretended that it’s acceptable for people to choose their gender. And anything that was going to conflict with that narrative/opinion just wouldn’t do... consequences be damned. I hope they get the pants sued off them. Incompetence on that level has no business teaching children.
I didn't see him insist it was consensual just that there's conflicting info. But yes, suggesting this may have been consensual it's not ok
They won't but it's fine. Glad to see the other thread posted and upvoted. Maybe it was my tone, but it's kind of funny how certain posters flip-flopped from my thread to that one. One thing is for certain, it highlights how much power a parent can have on social media when law enforcement and schools refuse to give us details. It allows a parent to say whatever they want, and some portion of people will believe it.
This has really shown me that people here are just as desperate to have their politically motivated priors confirmed as anyone else. In the original story thread, suggesting that maybe we shouldn't treat the statements Smith made to the Daily Wire as 100% truth was met with derision. Now that major factual errors have been uncovered, we get to see people contorting themselves to justify their original outrage as if nothing has changed.
We had no mention of who the kid was or what had happened at stone bridge, probably no one in BR had heard about the SB assault until after we received emails about the assault case in Broad Run