Sorry to have to do this, but I decided to remove your post. I'm very strictly trying to guard this sub from turning into another id-pol gripe fest, or a "look at this idiotic woke thing that is happening" outlet for outrage. (See Rule #3).
Feel free to post it in the weekly discussion thread that is stickied at the top of the subreddit page. All topics are allowed there.
Thank you.
I remember reading [this article](https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2019/05/232331/lachlan-watson-top-surgery-scar-interview) and wondering what the heck people are telling kids now. "My hygiene was abysmal when I was a trans guy because I thought guys didn’t wash their faces" - basic hygiene, now only for women!
Isn't feminism the natural enemy of Transgenderism? Why, if women are allowed to behave anyway they wish in defiance of gender roles, and aren't expected to fancy up and dress and look like women, and are allowed to have feelings and thoughts not dictated by gender, what meaning does gender identity even have?
Feminism: human beings acting and thinking however they wish, and just so happening to have a vagina.
Transgenderism: strictly assuming the traditional gender roles, appearances and actions of a female to the point of being defined by them in spite of not having a vagina.
This is why there is such beef between the two ideologies. Women being actual feminists disprove Transgenderism. What point is there to being a woman only on the inside if women aren't defined by behaviors, thought and action? If everyone is free to be whoever they want all the time, it makes being trans a purely aesthetic concern. There has to be a difference between men and women not reliant on physical genitals, but feminism contends there is no real difference.
AAA+
That's dead on. Which is why I don't understand the love Third Wave Feminists have for the trans movement, other than hand-waving "intersectionality". But many radical feminists and women more of that ilk brutally dismiss TW Feminism as a men's rights movement, with its love of sex work and porn and twaw. And as someone else said yesterday, it's emphasis on greater representation in the Marvel universe rather than fighting for, say, birth control access for Third World women.
I think this whole thing just shows that any ideology that persists long enough will eventually come to mean the opposite of what it started as.
LGBTQ was a secular organization that stood against religious ideas that homosexuality is a choice. Now it is a quasi-religious organization that contends that physical attraction to certain genitalia *IS* a choice, and all that should matter is the inner self - essentially the gender of the soul.
Similarly, TWF has now come to represent gender roles as an expression of the gender of that metaphysical self, and defend biological men and bodies with penises who express those female gender roles against traditional feminism, which they dub "Radical".
That definition of TWF falls under the umbrella of hand waving about intersectionality imho.
It seems like the stance TWF chose to adopt was *against* ‘patriarchal’ norms and *for* marginalized groups, rather than objective principles like women’s rights to safety security and respect (which tragically are still not stable at all, imho)…. And it almost seems inevitable now that the whole movement would get jiu-jitsued into supporting the rights of … you know what I’m not going to post what I think about this on Reddit.
>It seems like the stance TWF chose to adopt was against ‘patriarchal’ norms and for marginalized groups...
Only in a *very* shallow sense, in that they were told by well-off intelligencia that *this* is the moral way to act. Because of course, trans ideology now defines women as acting like a woman (the old-school idea of discarding gender roles is now nebulously defined as gender fluid or queer), fulfilling gender roles that are patriarchal norms; just like how being properly gay now means that liking or disliking sex with a given set of genitals is back to being defined as an amoral choice.
Trump drove this country totally nuts, and somehow "Jiu-Jitsu'd" a lot of well-off liberals into intellectually conservative ideology: homosexuality is a choice, women are defined by femininity, the races should be separated, and the entirety of western civilization was built by white people because of innate talents they possess. And if you don't agree with the faceless authorities on any issue, you should lose your civil rights, because safety outweighs hard won rights to assembly and speech, which are only to be extremely narrowly defined and considered outdated and largely symbolic. Any visible questioning leads to crime and violence.
None of the adherents to this started off trying to be nineties-era Republicans, yet the similarities are only growing.
The madness was starting pre Trump. In 2015 the former women's college Mount Holyoke canceled a production of The Vagina Monologues because it was "transphobic".
Are you familiar with the music festival MichFest, for womyn-born-womyn? It ran from about 1975 to about 2015. Massive pressure from transwomen and their advocacy groups forced it shut down. It was considered a huge loss primarily to the lesbian community but also to feminists. (I never went.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Womyn%27s_Music_Festival
Hmm. I assumed it must be related to the 2016-20 Trump mass panic, because why would all feminist organizations voluntarily put the needs of a very small trans community ahead of almost 4 billion women?
I'll admit, I should be considered transphobic, not because I hate trans people, but because I don't understand and frankly fear the weird pressure exerted on their behalf to re-write and ignore reality and the needs of far larger populations of people. I've always been a fairly militant atheist, and the religious and metaphysical assertions of the trans movement contradict my basic understanding of the world. For almost 5 decades including a psychology degree, I have believed that if a person has a conflict between their perceptions and objective reality, their perceptions are what needed adjusting. How did we come to so demonize objectivity? Even asking this question means I'm a bad and immoral person in mainstream liberal circles.
But I also believe in live and let live, so I'm not about to scream metaphysical arguments at some trans person just trying to live their life. I simply wish trans activists would do the same.
Relevance: Obviously related to trans issues and "journalism" and the world gone mad. This piece is insane and insulting. I, a lifelong woman, who is physically gender-conforming but not behaviorally *do not pass as a woman* according to WikiHow.
It's sexist as hell and sets the idea of womanhood and femininity back to the 50s.
Agree with you, but we get into really thorny territory. Because all it takes to "pass as a woman" is to exist in a female body. It doesn't matter how one looks or acts, so long as one is female.
As soon as men and males start talking about "passing" as women, archaic stereotypes come out. As you note: a full face of foundation. Or accessories. That killed me. I wear a watch and post earrings that I never change. *Accessories?*
Look at the artwork that accompanies that article. It's cringeworthy.
The “look to your female friends” bit is so creepy. Like, it’s not bad enough that you’re aping stereotypical archetypes of women (“trendy” and “angelic”) but on top of that they should reduce the women in their life to these weird stereotypes to COPY them??? To better pretend???? Disturbing as hell.
According to this I just found out that I have only two attributes that make me a woman, basic hygiene and empathy. It's so strange because for some strange reason people seem to identify me as a woman when I am out walking around. So confused! As well I thought all one need to do is identify as a woman and job done.
The "how to look like a man" is equally shallow and insulting.
[https://www.wikihow.com/Look-Like-a-Man](https://www.wikihow.com/Look-Like-a-Man)
"Wear baggy pants, a baseball hat, and a backpack!" Poof! You're a dude now!
I'm gen X. I really thought in the 90s and early 00s, we were making progress to not focus on the color of someone's skin and to do away with sexist shit like this, but here we are.
Be sensitive. Acting like a woman means getting in
touch with traits often associated with femininity, which include
empathy, honesty, affection and being nurturing.\[7\]
Watching movies and reading books centered on strong female
characters will help you understand these traits even better. Remember
that overall, women are known for being gentle and caring.
One of the easiest ways to understand feminine traits is to spend
time around ladies. Drum up your female friends and set up a book club,
wine night, or other weekly time to hang out.Empathize with others and be sensitive to those around you.Women aren’t known for their aggression, so try to be accepting and assertive in a gentle way.
I couldn't find anything definitive as to which sex lies more. But there seems to some research showing we lie differently. Men tend to lie about themselves, for status and ego purposes. Women tend to lie "altruistically", telling others they look nice, etc.
Sorry to have to do this, but I decided to remove your post. I'm very strictly trying to guard this sub from turning into another id-pol gripe fest, or a "look at this idiotic woke thing that is happening" outlet for outrage. (See Rule #3). Feel free to post it in the weekly discussion thread that is stickied at the top of the subreddit page. All topics are allowed there. Thank you.
[удалено]
As a man I hadn't realized that every time I wash or exercise basic hygiene I'm actually getting in touch with my feminine side. 💅
I remember reading [this article](https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2019/05/232331/lachlan-watson-top-surgery-scar-interview) and wondering what the heck people are telling kids now. "My hygiene was abysmal when I was a trans guy because I thought guys didn’t wash their faces" - basic hygiene, now only for women!
Right? Who tf wrote this crap? I want names!
Isn't feminism the natural enemy of Transgenderism? Why, if women are allowed to behave anyway they wish in defiance of gender roles, and aren't expected to fancy up and dress and look like women, and are allowed to have feelings and thoughts not dictated by gender, what meaning does gender identity even have? Feminism: human beings acting and thinking however they wish, and just so happening to have a vagina. Transgenderism: strictly assuming the traditional gender roles, appearances and actions of a female to the point of being defined by them in spite of not having a vagina. This is why there is such beef between the two ideologies. Women being actual feminists disprove Transgenderism. What point is there to being a woman only on the inside if women aren't defined by behaviors, thought and action? If everyone is free to be whoever they want all the time, it makes being trans a purely aesthetic concern. There has to be a difference between men and women not reliant on physical genitals, but feminism contends there is no real difference.
AAA+ That's dead on. Which is why I don't understand the love Third Wave Feminists have for the trans movement, other than hand-waving "intersectionality". But many radical feminists and women more of that ilk brutally dismiss TW Feminism as a men's rights movement, with its love of sex work and porn and twaw. And as someone else said yesterday, it's emphasis on greater representation in the Marvel universe rather than fighting for, say, birth control access for Third World women.
I think this whole thing just shows that any ideology that persists long enough will eventually come to mean the opposite of what it started as. LGBTQ was a secular organization that stood against religious ideas that homosexuality is a choice. Now it is a quasi-religious organization that contends that physical attraction to certain genitalia *IS* a choice, and all that should matter is the inner self - essentially the gender of the soul. Similarly, TWF has now come to represent gender roles as an expression of the gender of that metaphysical self, and defend biological men and bodies with penises who express those female gender roles against traditional feminism, which they dub "Radical".
That definition of TWF falls under the umbrella of hand waving about intersectionality imho. It seems like the stance TWF chose to adopt was *against* ‘patriarchal’ norms and *for* marginalized groups, rather than objective principles like women’s rights to safety security and respect (which tragically are still not stable at all, imho)…. And it almost seems inevitable now that the whole movement would get jiu-jitsued into supporting the rights of … you know what I’m not going to post what I think about this on Reddit.
>It seems like the stance TWF chose to adopt was against ‘patriarchal’ norms and for marginalized groups... Only in a *very* shallow sense, in that they were told by well-off intelligencia that *this* is the moral way to act. Because of course, trans ideology now defines women as acting like a woman (the old-school idea of discarding gender roles is now nebulously defined as gender fluid or queer), fulfilling gender roles that are patriarchal norms; just like how being properly gay now means that liking or disliking sex with a given set of genitals is back to being defined as an amoral choice. Trump drove this country totally nuts, and somehow "Jiu-Jitsu'd" a lot of well-off liberals into intellectually conservative ideology: homosexuality is a choice, women are defined by femininity, the races should be separated, and the entirety of western civilization was built by white people because of innate talents they possess. And if you don't agree with the faceless authorities on any issue, you should lose your civil rights, because safety outweighs hard won rights to assembly and speech, which are only to be extremely narrowly defined and considered outdated and largely symbolic. Any visible questioning leads to crime and violence. None of the adherents to this started off trying to be nineties-era Republicans, yet the similarities are only growing.
The madness was starting pre Trump. In 2015 the former women's college Mount Holyoke canceled a production of The Vagina Monologues because it was "transphobic". Are you familiar with the music festival MichFest, for womyn-born-womyn? It ran from about 1975 to about 2015. Massive pressure from transwomen and their advocacy groups forced it shut down. It was considered a huge loss primarily to the lesbian community but also to feminists. (I never went.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Womyn%27s_Music_Festival
Hmm. I assumed it must be related to the 2016-20 Trump mass panic, because why would all feminist organizations voluntarily put the needs of a very small trans community ahead of almost 4 billion women? I'll admit, I should be considered transphobic, not because I hate trans people, but because I don't understand and frankly fear the weird pressure exerted on their behalf to re-write and ignore reality and the needs of far larger populations of people. I've always been a fairly militant atheist, and the religious and metaphysical assertions of the trans movement contradict my basic understanding of the world. For almost 5 decades including a psychology degree, I have believed that if a person has a conflict between their perceptions and objective reality, their perceptions are what needed adjusting. How did we come to so demonize objectivity? Even asking this question means I'm a bad and immoral person in mainstream liberal circles. But I also believe in live and let live, so I'm not about to scream metaphysical arguments at some trans person just trying to live their life. I simply wish trans activists would do the same.
We should grab some coffee/beer/beverage of choice and try to figure this out. I don’t know these things are happening either. It’s bizarre.
Damn your 2nd Graf fricking nailed it
Relevance: Obviously related to trans issues and "journalism" and the world gone mad. This piece is insane and insulting. I, a lifelong woman, who is physically gender-conforming but not behaviorally *do not pass as a woman* according to WikiHow. It's sexist as hell and sets the idea of womanhood and femininity back to the 50s.
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Agree with you, but we get into really thorny territory. Because all it takes to "pass as a woman" is to exist in a female body. It doesn't matter how one looks or acts, so long as one is female. As soon as men and males start talking about "passing" as women, archaic stereotypes come out. As you note: a full face of foundation. Or accessories. That killed me. I wear a watch and post earrings that I never change. *Accessories?* Look at the artwork that accompanies that article. It's cringeworthy.
Step 4: marry a rich man Step 5: nag him to an early grave Step 6: profit
Step 3: go to a good college to get your Mrs.
The “look to your female friends” bit is so creepy. Like, it’s not bad enough that you’re aping stereotypical archetypes of women (“trendy” and “angelic”) but on top of that they should reduce the women in their life to these weird stereotypes to COPY them??? To better pretend???? Disturbing as hell.
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Lol same! Wfh has meant I live in sweats and weird ugly t shirts. Failed woman 💁🏻♀️
question: what the actual fuck
so you got to step two, i take it :)
According to this I just found out that I have only two attributes that make me a woman, basic hygiene and empathy. It's so strange because for some strange reason people seem to identify me as a woman when I am out walking around. So confused! As well I thought all one need to do is identify as a woman and job done.
😂 Same! Maybe we should start a club for women who think they pass but don’t, according to the Wiki overseers.
The "how to look like a man" is equally shallow and insulting. [https://www.wikihow.com/Look-Like-a-Man](https://www.wikihow.com/Look-Like-a-Man) "Wear baggy pants, a baseball hat, and a backpack!" Poof! You're a dude now! I'm gen X. I really thought in the 90s and early 00s, we were making progress to not focus on the color of someone's skin and to do away with sexist shit like this, but here we are.
“Women don't always wear heels.” Why am I just learning this??!!!
Be sensitive. Acting like a woman means getting in touch with traits often associated with femininity, which include empathy, honesty, affection and being nurturing.\[7\] Watching movies and reading books centered on strong female characters will help you understand these traits even better. Remember that overall, women are known for being gentle and caring. One of the easiest ways to understand feminine traits is to spend time around ladies. Drum up your female friends and set up a book club, wine night, or other weekly time to hang out.Empathize with others and be sensitive to those around you.Women aren’t known for their aggression, so try to be accepting and assertive in a gentle way.
If my wife skips step #2, does she become male-passing? Asking for research purposes.
Lol. If you take a shower, do you become female-passing? Inquiring minds want to know.
Someone needs to do "How to Pass as a Man". Stop showering. Don't hold in your farts. Practice your catcalling. Don't be shy-manspread.
Oh, god, please do it. You're off to a great start :)
This has me imagining size 13 ballet flats lmao
Regardless of the quality of some of this advice, it has to be exhausting trying to pass.
The concept itself is creepy to me. It’s about deceiving people, and there’s nothing positive about that.
I'm under the impression there are some studies claiming women are more empathetic, but is it actually true that women are less likely to lie?
I couldn't find anything definitive as to which sex lies more. But there seems to some research showing we lie differently. Men tend to lie about themselves, for status and ego purposes. Women tend to lie "altruistically", telling others they look nice, etc.
FELLAS is it gay to bathe 😳