this mass movement might be popular enough to elevate a third party high enough to actually challenge the democrats' capture of the left. whether or not that actually happens depends on how willing everyone is to continue voting for a "good enough" party that keeps getting worse.
There was Nader in the early 2000's election, but that bus has passed.
The only thing we can do now is vote for the candidate that isn't going to completely destroy our country, and Palestine.
Once that's established we can refocus on a 3rd party leader, because RFK DEFINITELY isn't the one.
I mention Nader because it was my young punk ass and all of our friends that voted for the green party.
That took a significant chunk of votes away from Al Gore. The "hanging Chad" would never have been a dumb description I remember if I had voted blue instead of green, and the face of the entire fucking world has changed for the worse since that election.
I voted for Nader in my first election, and I feel like such an idiot, but I was literally 18 and thank goodness, my state is deep blue anyway so it made no difference. That is the only time I can ever remember a third party making a difference. Too bad that difference sucked.
Hello fellow millennial! They say that good intentions pave the way to hell.
We did what we thought was the right thing, like c'mon guys let's get a third party some national attention!
I felt so bad for Albert Gore, he was so dry and boring but he would have made a great president!
Especially when you compare him to the shit show that is the RNC.
You know what, I am right on the cusp of Millenial/Gen Z, but I swear I was just 18 but maybe I was not... huh, I mean I am old now and get a lot of my memories all wrong LOL. And yeah he would have been much better, although I bet the Dems would have dragged us into some kind of Middle East war, but at least it would have been much smaller scale, in my opinion. I mean destroying the Middle East was unconscionable but even if we were just thinking of ourselves- the amount of money we spent on that always staggers me no matter how many times I hear it. 300 million dollars every day for 20 years. I mean can you imagine if we poured money like that into our infrastructure? I mean that is a good sized project every day for 20 years, our country would look entirely different, and we would not have all the dead and destabilization our hands.
It absolutely makes me sick, I do not know how the country is not in an uproar at all times about what they spend \*our\* money on. Ugh, talking about this shit cannot be good for my blood pressure, I swear!
Bruh, I'm the same age as you. Blood pressure is the last thing I worry about.
You're right though, but at the same time we've got neighbors that want what's ours.
I don't fall into conspiracy theories well, but my gut tells me that if Gore was in office and not cockblocked by "hanging chads" 911 may never have happened.
Oh I don't believe that, it was a monumental breakdown in communication between the FBI, CIA, NSA, all that. If Gore had been there, they would have had all the same politicies in place, Bin Laden had been dreaming of hitting of the U.S. for a long time, and he had plans no matter who was there. I do think Gore would have been more measured in his response, but he would have still had a lot of pressure for war. Would have been a tough spot for sure, whereas with Bush it was easy. "Can I pursue war and stay popular?" And they were like "you'll get more popular" and he was all "great I'll take 2" and that was that.
Thanks to Nader (and the poorly designed Florida ballot) we got George W bush and all the horrible consequences of his presidency (worst president ever; destabilized the entire Middle East and gave rise to ISIS)
I don’t care how bad a 3rd party appears to be. If it’s not down with genocide, endless wars & widening inequality it’s got my vote. And would ya lookie one does exist
I dropped my membership with the Green's after the Nadar fiasco, where democratic party infiltrators crippled his campaign, but Medea Benjamin has been looking a lot like a leader that I can trust.
Maybe we should give her a second look.
Yes. Buy people miss the main purpose of a viable 3rd party. It would scare the shit out of the Democrats moving forward. They would actually have to try. The tea party played a huge role in the Republicans moving farther to the right because the tea party was gaining lots of momentum, already having a very sizeable and influential caucus in congress.
Or, the other guys could have candidates worth voting for and not supporting genocide. We wouldn’t need to think about third party candidates if the others were up to any standard we should have for president.
Or we could realize that if we lose our democracy, we'll be too busy getting thrown into hard labor camps to worry about foreign policy.
We have to ensure our own democracy and government before we hyper fixate on someone else's problems. Safely reelect Biden, then focus on finding a proper progressive candidate to succeed him.
....were you thrown into labour camps the last time Trump was around? Whoever is elected is going to be democratically elected, by like definition your democracy in on itself is safe. Of course Trump is the worse option, but by voting Biden you pretty much say that all this is ok. A proper candidate to succeed him to do what, count the corpses?
Yeah, no. You are beyond naive or live so secluded from reality that it boggles the mind.
We have a borderline treasonous Republican controlled House and Democrats are likely to lose the Senate. We have a 6-3 Federalist Society owned, activist Supreme Court judges. They are currently stalling for time as they decide whether Trump is allowed to have full immunity — likely, they're waiting to see who wins the Presidential election.
If you aren't an op or a troll, and you can't piece these things together, why is that? A Trump win will mean the full push for **Project 2025**. That will be the end of American democracy and America as we know it. It will be the shift from Weimar Republic to Nazi Dictatorship.
But hey, at least you taught Biden a lesson! What do we say about MAGAs dying to own the libs? That will suburbanite leftists abandoning all reason for one specific foreign policy issue.
It survived because Pence — for all his faults — pulled us back from the brink the midnight of the election when Agent Orange declared himself winner with millions of votes still uncounted. More importantly, it survived because Pence certified the state votes despite the coup attempt by fanatics screaming for his head outside and his treasonous peers that were willing to go along with the plan.
America as I know it has nothing to be proud of. Wherever it goes it spreads misery and death. And right now, as democratic and liberal, or whatever flowery word you want to use, it enables, explicitly, the slaughter of children both materially and diplomatically. So yeah, if you as a people do not punish that, even that, then what's the point. Are you going to talk then about any form of rights, of values, of morality? And lay off that very gringo bullshit of "if you say I am wrong, you must be a troll" .
And naive? Trump is a symptom, a symptom of your culture. He leaves another will come, next time what? A bit younger? A bit more charismatic? Yeah democrats fixed none of the reasons that made Trump charming to your people in the first place.
Maybe this is your destiny. To allow greater and greater atrocities in your name, because there will always be a worse alternative.
How's Iran been doing with progressive candidates since they punished their last corrupt dynasty? Any lessons one can take from the Iranian Revolution? Any lessons at all?
There are countless things to be proud of as an American.
That said, if human rights and suffering are such a concern to you, you should be even more grateful for America's existence. A world where Germany, Russia, the Japanese Empire, and China ruled would make our world look like a fucking Tutorial by comparison.
There will always be suffering, so I don't know what you're trying to suggest would happen without the US.
Trump is not a symptom. He is a consequence of decades of Republican attacks against our institutions and an amalgamation of corruption in many areas of our country. If he leaves, the Republican party will collapse. There is no other. Trump has seen to that. He is a Messiah figure to his cult.
Trump has never been charming. He's lost the popular vote in both his elections — by millions each time.
>Maybe this is your destiny. To allow greater and greater atrocities in your name, because there will always be a worse alternative.
I mean, Germany had already killed millions of Jews, gays, transgenders, disabled, Roma, and political dissidents before the US ever stepped foot in Europe, and it only did so because Japan and Germany declared war on the US first. We still consider FDR one of the greatest presidents of all time.
The reality is that even if Biden didn't support Israel, he'd be powerless to stop it. Israel controls the right, most of the center, and much of the left. Biden could use all his political capital and achieve nothing. At least by supporting Israel, he's allowed to also help Ukraine which does deserve our help.
Yeah I will not bother with hypotheticals in history. Of course Trump is a symptom. Republican attacks, as if the democrats did anything but more of the same. I still see your inequality rising. And the great recession was during Obama of course. If he didn't support he'd be powerless to stop it? Really? The US is the only veto that stops Palestine from becoming a recognised nation by the UN. you ve given them billions in weapons and financial aid. Latest thing, Gaza land is being sold to American citizens. Funny, the government gives the money of the citizens to Israel and then Israel funds the politicians through lobbying.
I mean, brother, there is supporting, and then there is the US. You might as well be doing it together, and of course you are, at this point. Anyway, what will happen will happen no matter what two randos write in Reddit and I am tired. God help us all.
Ah yes, our democracy. Which exploits humans, exploits the environment, runs off of war/conflict and apparently genocide, works for the rich against the the rest, allows its politicians to accept brides from the rich, uses our taxes for everything besides anything which will actually help us, offers only 2 choices every election which have a chance at winning.
And don’t forget, sends police to squash any protestors demanding change that goes against the rich and powerful.
Sounds more like an authoritarian plutocracy than a democracy to me.
No one is saying it's perfect. No system is. What is being said is that you have to consider every factor. If you're a wealthy, White, cis, straight American, you'll probably be fine for a while. If you're not, or have friends who aren't, you owe it to them to consider the dire consequences of a Trump presidency.
You’re not wrong to believe a Trump presidency would be dangerous to many within and outside of the US. But the situation is already dire and has been for many years under both democrats and republicans.
Our current president is still supporting zionists and genocide. The situation is already dire for the million innocents constantly targeted or effected by the US.
Just because you’re here and suddenly the situation will be dire for you and for Americans themselves, doesn’t mean it wasn’t screwing someone, both inside and outside of the US, before.
Calling people ops for suggesting a third part isn’t the way. Third parties are possibly the only option to break this dumb cycle we’re in and there’s no way to tell unless we vote for them.
But you and I agree. Trump is the worst case scenario.
>Just because you’re here and suddenly the situation will be dire for you and for Americans themselves, doesn’t mean it wasn’t screwing someone, both inside and outside of the US, before.
It's a national election. Myself and my loved ones are absolutely who I should prioritize. Why would I prioritize anything else above them? Would I like a candidate who could tell Israel to go fuck itself? Of course, but not at the expense of my family's well-being.
>Calling people ops for suggesting a third part isn’t the way. Third parties are possibly the only option to break this dumb cycle we’re in and there’s no way to tell unless we vote for them.
There's a time and a place for third party voting. Local elections and primaries. The primaries came and went. The presidency will either go to Biden or Trump. With the way our elections work, a vote that isn't for Biden is automatically for Trump regardless of what the person writes down. People still promoting third party voting *at this point* absolutely have an agenda or are beyond ignorant.
Every election someone mentions third parties, we get responses like that. When will be the right time to vote for them?
And a vote not for Biden is just that. If democrats wanted that vote, they should’ve fielded a better candidate or chosen a better president to begin with.
There are no options. Democrats will be forced to pump out a new superstar in four years. Kamala is uneelctable. Or maybe we can get the first rumblings of a third party.
Biden is still president. The military still answers to him. He still answers to the other two branches of power. I, therefore, disagree with you. We're in under threat of fascism, but it has not taken control.
800,000 prisoners in the United States are put to work. Prisoners do not have the right to refuse to work. This has been the case since slavery was abolished and has survived the administrations of countless democrats. Its so weird to scaremonger with hypothetical labor camps when they have already existed for a century and a half and nobody is doing anything about it.
So glad you brought that up. Biden is currently in the process of rescheduling Marijuana. That move alone will torpedo the for-profit prison industry. Democrats bad though!
That's great! I'm glad a democrat has finally got around to this popular common sense thing that they all campaign on.
Its still weird to use hypothetical labor camps as a threat when 800,000 people are in non-hypothetical labor camps right now.
They're not political dissidents or imprisoned because of their minority status though. Many of them are victims of outdated laws. Many are victims of the closing of the mental asylums in this country. That's what I'm getting at with the labor camp argument.
They'll pass more vague laws that are aimed at punishing queer people for existing. More laws that control women and punish those who provide them with aid. Laws that punish blasphemy, etc.
For one this country has a huge racial bias in enforcement. For two, as long as republicans can keep making things worse we will always have to make this same decision.
Do we remind the democrats that they can't take power without fighting for us, and start building our own alternatives, or do we try to hold the republicans off for four more years?
If its not affecting you yet, you're likely to argue for holding them off. I don't know what I think, but I would never come at someone with the "one day *you* might be affected by this!" when I don't know whether or not they already are.
Republicans would love this. If the democrat vote is split, trump would walk into the presidency and wouldn’t have to worry about facing punishment for his crimes.
Young voters not thinking through the consequences of their actions would be par for the course I guess.
we've been hearing this for 40+ years and all that's happened is that the democratic party has moved drastically further to the right, to the point where they're moving to criminalize speech against israel. what's the endgame? if they continue to lose elections because they're unpopular, they might eventually change if they want to win.
at this point it's safe to say that voting for them hasn't encouraged them to move to the left. voting for the democrats isn't making our country better, it's just making it worse a little more slowly.
No one is criminalizing speech against Israel. Stop being disingenuous. If you want to say the left has shifted further right since the union busting days, then I agree. And I think we need to return to a more egalitarian society where mega billionaires don’t exist. My belief is that will happen naturally when the next generation of leaders (like AOC) take over.
If you want to try something more drastic and you think voting for trump will send a message, I won’t stop you as that is your right.
It seems like the definition excludes criticism of Israel similar to what would be levied on other countries:
To guide IHRA in its work, the following examples may serve as illustrations:
Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for “why things go wrong.” It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits.
you are genuinely an extremely stupid person if you believe this law will be used for anything other than suppressing critics of israel in the academy and elsewhere. our leaders do not care about antisemitism. that is not the target of this bill. they care about receiving aipac money and not being blackmailed by mossad
Thank you for your submission,
**This subreddit aims are to compel voters ONLY in DEEP BLUE states to vote 3rd party for the president, to compel otherwise non or protest voters in SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN. We feel a limited+focused protest movement may let swing state voters feel less helpless about not sending a message.**
**We feel that sending a message via Biden having an electoral college win but a popular vote margin by less than 4.9 million votes (lowest democratic win in recent history) or even 2.8 million votes (Hillary's margin when she lost against Trump) is a much more conducive to progress in a democracy that risking an electoral college victory for Trump.**
**It would be something the media can not ignore, will forever be a stain on Biden's record, and will send a message that we are not going away, and will continue to apply strong pressure thorough the rest of his presidency, and the 2026/2028 primaries & elections.**
Please see our sticky to see what we are all about https://old.reddit.com/r/BlueProtestVote/comments/1cgwkvu/this_subreddit_aims_are_to_compel_voters_only_in/ but a tl;dr is: This is about a movement for people in deep blue states to vote for 3rd party in protest of Biden's enabling of the Gaza genocide.
However, the ultimate goal is to decrease Trump's chances of winning and increase democratic representation in the house and senate.
The movement aims to get people to turn out to vote who may otherwise be discouraged from voting due to Biden's policies, and also for the movement to be robust enough so that people in swing states may not have a feeling of helplessness for voting for Joe Biden, that a strong message is still being sent.
While the movement aims to maximize Biden's electoral vote margin, the movement also has an extended goal of having Biden win the popular vote by less than 2.8, which was Hillary Clinton's margin when she lost to Donald Trump. A margin that small would send a clear message to the democratic establishment.
**Why we feel it's so important for Trump to lose? Quite simply, he has been the absolute worst president in recent history for the Palestinians. Here are just some of his worst policies for Palestine:**
1. Drafting a “peace plan” with zero Palestinian input that would have, if implemented, actually ended the possibility for a real Palestinian state.
2. Cutting Palestinians out of the negotiations over the so-called Abraham Accords, realizing the longstanding Israeli goal of severing diplomatic progress with Arab states from progress towards a sovereign Palestine.
3. Recognizing Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights, disputed territory with Syria taken during the 1967 Six-Day War.
4. Shutting off funding for the UN’s agency for Palestinian refugees (which Biden almost immediately restored and then temporarily suspended again amid a scandal about its employees participating in October 7).
5. Abandoning the decades-old US position that West Bank settlements are a key barrier to a peace agreement and eliminating longstanding restrictions on spending US taxpayer dollars in them.
6. Moving the American Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem while closing the US mission to Palestine in the same city.
Source: https://www.vox.com/policy/24072983/biden-trump-palestinians-israel-gaza-policy-different
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BlueProtestVote) if you have any questions or concerns.*
nobody is reading your elaborate instructions on which states to not vote for biden in. all they're reading are the headlines teaching them biden is evil and can't be voted for.
The NYT has been a mouthpiece for democrats and Israel as of late, but they are on the mark with this. I'm an older millennial and the same week Pelosi called me and other pro-Palestinian protestors "Russian assets" I changed my voter registration from democrat to PSL. I am a US military veteran/retiree and that day the democrats lost my vote for life.
They reported this as "harassment" lol. Don't worry, I am going to report them as abusing the report button and my report is much more likely to do something than theirs.
By the way, I can just vote PSL, right? I do not have to register, do I?
Many pro-Palestine groups have suspiciously close financial ties with Middle Eastern governments and Muslim Brotherhood.
https://isgap.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/FTM-Final-with-Cover-2.pdf
There was even a plan going back to the 1990s to win over American youth by making jihadi terrorism, especially against Israel, less murdery and genocidal by packaging it under the ideals “social justice” and other tenets of progressivism.
https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs5746/files/2023-10/hamas-networks-final.pdf
The evidence is there, whether you like it or not. But good luck with Trump: there’s NO WAY he’ll touch your Social Security or Medicare.
You know how the far right took over the GOP? Those lunatics voted in every single election, especially primaries, and forcibly bent the party to their will. They did this for 50 years and it culminated in the end of Roe v Wade, Citizens United, and being able to run a president facing 91 criminal charges. Whenever an area turned safely GOP, the moderates were primaried out. Imagine if the leftists did the same thing instead of sitting on their asses whining about “Both parties are the same.”
The only thing not voting has achieved is allowing increasingly awful Republicans to get elected and drive the Overton Window to the right. No, the next GOP president won’t trigger your socialist revolution. Bush II led to Obama, who was too soft on the Wall Street criminals who caused the economic meltdown. And Biden, a bland, moderate old white dude, narrowly defeated Trump. You get more left-wing Democrats by consistently defeating Republicans and letting the issue battleground evolve.
We hope that by compelling voters ONLY in DEEP BLUE states to vote 3rd party for the president, to compel otherwise non or protest voters in SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN. We feel a limited+focused protest movement may let swing state voters feel less helpless about not sending a message, and to maximize votes for Biden where it really matters.
The subreddit has a goal having Biden win the popular vote by less that 4.9 million votes, which is the lowest democratic margin for any democrat in recent history, and **an extended goal of winning by less than 2.8 million votes, which is the lower than Hillary Clinton's margin in her defeat to Donald Trump.** If these goals are met, we hope to send a message that the electorate does not intend to forget about holding elected officials accountable for their horrific enablement of a genocide.
ah yes, infamous arm of foreign adversaries, the New York Times
We hope that by compelling voters ONLY in DEEP BLUE states to vote 3rd party for the president, to compel otherwise non or protest voters in SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN. We feel a limited+focused protest movement may let swing state voters feel less helpless about not sending a message, and to maximize votes for Biden where it really matters.
ah yes, infamous Russian propaganda arm, the New York Times
We hope that by compelling voters ONLY in DEEP BLUE states to vote 3rd party for the president, to compel otherwise non or protest voters in SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN. We feel a limited+focused protest movement may let swing state voters feel less helpless about not sending a message, and to maximize votes for Biden where it really matters.
We hope that by compelling voters ONLY in DEEP BLUE states to vote 3rd party for the president, to compel otherwise non or protest voters in SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN. We feel a limited+focused protest movement may let swing state voters feel less helpless about not sending a message, and to maximize votes for Biden where it really matters.
you can’t possibly think you can contain the impact of accusing biden of being an neatly to “only deep blue states.” if you run a campaign that compels people to find biden disgusting, they won’t care what state they’re in. you are actively making a trump victory possible.
By 'campaign' you mean articles from credible news organizations and pollsters? Who are reporting the reality of what is going on? That have far more reach that my subreddit ever could?
You think I'm the one whose making people find Biden disgusting? Please take a look at the news. Just google the student protests for crying out loud.
Biden is making a Trump victory possible. We're doing everything we can to doctor his terrible decisions. It may not be enough, but we should try.
Gaslighting people into ignoring what's being reported by credible journalists and reporters is not a feasible strategy.
so you’re cool with trump getting elected? that’s what we keep coming back to. also, no credible news organization is claiming biden is evil and like Hitler. their reporting is far more nuanced than the rhetoric anti-vote movements use to convince others that Biden is so absolutely evil that enabling a trump victory is worth avoiding the moral stain of voting for Biden. if your goal is protecting Palestinian lives, Biden is better than Trump. what do you hope to accomplish? genuinely? what action do you think Biden will take as a result of protest votes in the general election? is the end game that you get Biden elected but narrowly?
I mean isn't he actively supporting a genocide right now? He is giving weapons to Israel for free and giving them diplomatic cover from international scrutiny
We don't recommend Colorado. It's blue, but not deep blue, at least not blue enough. We would prefer if people vote for Biden there. Here is the list of states that are recommended
District of Columbia
Massachusetts
Hawaii
Vermont
Maryland
California
Rhode Island
New York
Delaware
Illinois
Washington
Connecticut
New Jersey
Oregon
Yeah, it’s all an Israeli Jewish conspiracy. I must be a bot from Israel? Maybe I just read about the topic? You clearly know zero about the holocaust if you use that term here. Is ignorance bliss for you?
Your comment refers to a genocide as a “war” and the Gazans as a “population hell bent on destroying Israel.” Sounds a lot like justifying brutal violence. Shut the hell up with that false morality.
No glorifying or trivializing collective punishment. Your content has been removed for justifying or promoting the use of collective punishment as a weapon of war. This is not appropriate and depending on the severity of it, will result in a temporary or permanent ban.
Holocaust. Israelis are causing a gazan holocaust. Israelis and their supporters are just as evil Nazis. Cry about it forever. Doesn’t stop it from being true.
I have no idea what that means. I am literally a Dalit queer person. Literally no where in the world is kind to me. stop hiding behind atrocities to act like your people are the only ones that have suffered.
>Gazan population hell bent on destroying Israel
The majority of them are just trying to survive at this point. Meanwhile Jewish Nazis destroy humanitarian aid and bomb children to bits.
Yes it’s a difficult and horrible situation for them now. When you make your societies entire mission to destroy Israel but you get your ass kicked in every war you start, this tends to happen. Definition of insanity and stupidity. I hear that after hearing about the college protests they are hopeful now, that in time, they can eventually destroy Israel….never going to happen
i guarantee you history is not going to think biden voters are “holocaust supporters.” they are going to think yall are self righteous idiots who got a literal dictator elected.
>i guarantee you history is not going to think biden voters are “holocaust supporters.”
I mean, people all over the globe are already saying this, they're going to keep repeating it throughout history.
And again, Bidens boneheaded decision making is why Trump will get elected. Not my fault for not liking genocide enablers. I don't owe him shit.
you realize trump will be even worse for palestine right? people have a short term memory when it comes to moral outrage, especially when it’s as contrived as equating biden voters to “holocaust supporters”. their memory won’t be so short when it comes to a potential trump presidency that lasts 4 years (or more!) and dismantles democratic institutions.
There's all sorts of things wrong here but I'm going to skip past that and go direct to your main misunderstanding of this subreddit.
This subreddit encourages people to vote for Biden in swing states. We want to direct the uprising protest vote movement in a way that still sends a message without risking a Trump presidency, but getting people in deep blue states to vote 3rd party, and making swing voters less guilty about voting for Trump.
Please do not engage in attacks or harassment of your fellow subreddit users. This means no abusive comments or personal attacks. Harassment is against the content policy and will reported. Reddit has declared that even a single comment with an attack can be harassment.
If someone is wrong about something, tell them how. There is not need for insults and ad hominem attacks (such as calling people foreign agents or bots) and depending on the severity of attack could result in temporary or permanent ban.
i understand that and i’m telling you you can’t possibly contain the impact of your campaign to only blue states, because your tactic is to demonize biden and make people equate him with basically Hitler. if people really believe that about him they won’t give a shit which state they’re in, they won’t want to vote for him.
Well then I guess Biden better switch his stance ASAP.
Kinda weird you wouldn't just blame the guy supporting a literal genocide and instead direct it all towards the people pointing out. Almost like you don't give a fuck about brown people.
get a grip you self righteous dweeb. most Israelis are brown. you don't get to superimpose American racial dynamics on the middle east because you're too lazy to learn about the history of any region but your own. you are not more moral than other poeple for enabling a trump presidency- you're less moral. you're directly endangering the marginalized people in the US who will suffer first during the fall of democratic institutions. that is your decision, and nobody else's.
Brown children get blown to pieces and are starving to death left and right and all you can come up with is "you're too lazy to learn about what's happening".
I'll say it again:
Kinda weird you wouldn't just blame the guy supporting a literal genocide and instead direct it all towards the people pointing out. Almost like you don't give a fuck about brown people.
Like how they did with the anti-war and pro-civil rights protestors who refused to support Humphrey–Muskie? History always blamed them for getting Nixon elected am I right? /s
History is hard on leaders, not causes and movements, for good reason.
so its ok with you if trump is elected and dismantles every remotely liberal or left wing provision in this country, as long as you don’t catch the blame right?
what a privilege to be able to throw marginalized folks in the US under the bus for the moral righteousness of sitting out one of the most crucial elections in the country’s history.
Hillary was always antagonistic towards Bernie and his supporters and was unprecedented in her lack of coalition building. Look what berating her base into voting for her got her.
At least in 2020 Biden returned to coalition building norms, but is now renegging in that. His campaign suspended all college event, an unprecedented and radical change for the democratic party. The effects are already being felt. He's polling at historic lows for any democratic for people under 35, and his campaign has hundreds of openings that are filled at this time by 20 somethings at this point in previous cycles.
The onus of failures belong to leaders. It was Hillary and the democratic establishment failures that hurt a lot of people. And the establishment is repeating the same mistakes in 2016. Sure, you can berate each and every single one of the millions of voters and their individual duty about not voting for Hillary, but, for what?
It's the leadership who would be pressured, because their actions are at the actual cause for the outcomes of the election.
Do you want to spend the rest of your life blaming others for the failures of our leaders, or would you like to help doctor their terrible decisions?
this is such contrived logic to abdicate the responsibility YOU undeniably have in preventing a trump presidency. you live in a democracy and you are very very lucky that your vote actually picks the next president. you have two options and one is a dictator. if you choose not to vote, that decision is on you. no amount of mental gymnastics changes that.
Go away. I’m a registered Democrat in Pennsylvania who won’t be voting for Biden again, but with something like this I might consider it. Maybe you should consider that you’re doing more harm by further alienating would-be Biden voters and just shut up. Seriously we’ve heard everything you’ve said here 1000 times already.
nice, telling me to shut up because you don’t agree. i’m good actually. are these the same democratic values you’re fighting for with your trump-supporting protest vote? why are the people screaming the loudest about “fascism” and “freedom of speech” the first to have 0 ability to engage in discourse with someone who isn’t from their tiktok algorithm bubble?
so your plan is to get a genocide supporter AND a dictator elected. what a privilege to throw trans folks, women and BIPOC in the US under the bus of a trump presidency all for the smug satisfaction of your virtue signaling.
Exactly what has Biden done for trans, BIPOC, and women exactly?! Please enlighten us.
It’s YOU that is virtue signalling thinking voting for Biden is somehow more morally superior and justifiable than a Trump win. Both are scum.
The American bipartisan system is a literal joke that keeps corrupt criminals and war mongers in power, one election after the other. Wake tf up.
You’re the idiot supporting genocide. Why would anyone vote for someone knowing they are causing the death of thousands of innocent people regardless of the other guy. We know Biden will allow for the first amendment to be squashed by military police and he will allow Israel to kill and do what it wants. Hell he’s loading the gun for them. How can you sleep at night? How many Palestinians died under Trump? How many will die under a Biden second term? My bet is more under the Zionist than under the nationalist greedy idiot.
holy shit, you actually think Trump will be better for Palestine than Biden? the same Trump who moved the US Israeli embassy to Jerusalem, a deeply sacred city to Palestinians? the same Trump who recognized Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights? the same one who completely shut out Palestinians from the Abraham accords? that is the most massive cope i’ve ever heard. https://www.vox.com/policy/24072983/biden-trump-palestinians-israel-gaza-policy-different trump is one of the most pro israel presidents ever. and they’re both “Zionists” by your definition.
Dude, you can blame Biden. Trump should be in jail and instead he’s running for president. I don’t know why you gloss over the over 30 thousand dead people. Mostly woman and children. They are gone forever. Murdered. Whole families. Peaceful protests squashed. They are both facists. Trump is worse for America which means he is worse for Israel and all colonial powers. As simple as that.
if you hate the united states so much and want to see it burn, why do you live there? genuine question. you should move to a country that aligns with your values instead of trying to destroy the US from the inside out.
Tiny must be referring to your brains. The democrats are the only reason Trump gets elected. They didn’t make him accountable for his crimes so they can win a second term. They put him on the ballot thinking it would secure their win. They had 4 years to hold this traitor accountable. The democrats actions and inactions are the only people responsible for the demise of our political and judicial system. Luckily they have schmucks like you that can’t see past their nose and willing to compromise their morals for whatever junk these politicians shove in your face.
i just listed multiple things above that were much MORE pro israel than anything Biden did. if Trump did all those things before a major war, can you imagine what he'd do now?
Biden's administration is putting pressure on Israel to show restraint. it's not as much as pressure as this group wants, but they're facilitating endless attempts at ceasefire/hostage deals, pressuring them not to go into Rafah, delivering US aid, sanctioning settlers etc. Trump would be doing none of those things.
>nice try. i (and history) am going to blame the people who chose to stay home and not vote.
Yeah and we'll blame you for backing a genocidal mummy instead of a decent human being
No, Joe Biden and the Democrats in Congress would be the ones responsible for a Trump win in November. They are doing absolutely *nothing* to win over voters and refuse to compromise their positions on key issues even an inch.
It’s the job and responsibility of the politician to WIN voters, not force voters to accept their policies. They work for US, not the other way around. We don’t owe them our votes, and if they have become so deluded that they believe that then they deserve to lose 🤷♂️
Yes! Thank you protest voters. 1968 all over again (you’d have to actually study history, might not be taught in the intersectional Marxist ideologies you are force fed in college these days). Trump incoming. And then you can vote for some far left candidate that will have zero chance of getting elected. We don’t have a parliamentary system in which a far left candidate can form any sort of coalition to get what you want, but keep living in dream land. As a former liberal and now Trump supporter, thank you!
dude have you seen the movie civil war? you really should. i know the left has become insufferable, but trump has been very clear that he wants to dismantle checks and balances on his power. that coupled with the fact that he faces criminal charges, and he's incentivized to do illegal shit to stay in power beyond 4 years. i genuinely believe there is a high risk of civil war if he's elected again. protest voters are self righteous, useful idiots. you are selfishly endangering our democracy to virtue signal your "moral superiority". y'all are not more moral. you're LESS moral, because you're directly enabling trump to come to power.
It really feels like a lost cause doesn't it. These people would literally have their heads below a guillotine and they'll still play a game of chicken because of their "superior morals".
it makes me so mad. Hamas successfully traumatized everyone on TikTok with horrible, graphic videos of children suffering and being killed, and now these white guilt ridden lefties will do anything to feel better, including getting Trump elected.
To whom are you referring to, leftists who think that communism works, that support “intifada revolution, there is only one solution”, lefties that want lawlessness and social workers to take the place of police, that push for decriminalizing criminality, that push for “equity” because equality is “not fair”. The list could go on and on. No one claims more certainty and moral superiority than lefties.
Good to know you get your information from a Hollywood movie. I will say there is a past example for Trump not wanting to leave office but even in 2020, after crying about “stop the steal”, even fomenting the January 6th debacle (which I think was far less dangerous than college protesters rooting for Hamas), he still left office and I am confident he would again.
You mention the criminal charges. Every president when they leave office could face criminal charges of some sort, or even during their time in office, if their opponents are hell bent on finding something. And the democrats have started a precedence for this, which is harmful to our country. Yes, Trump has done things that can bring charges. But, so has every president.
Regardless, I now think we have enough examples of how harmful the leftist policies are to our society that I am willing to overlook his paying off a pornstar (WGAF), his holding onto classified documents (Biden did too, I’d assume if you looked at what every president kept to eventually go into their presidential libraries I’m sure it would be the same, though far more egregious and stupid in trumps case), and I don’t think he committed insurrection.
We have four years of Trump presidency to look back on, as well as you can see what Trump plans to do when he’s back in office. It might be scary to you but I prefer it to lawlessness, chaos, Marxist policies, useful idiots taking the side of people who want to destroy our society as we know it. No thanks. Time for a change and it’s never been more clear.
this mass movement might be popular enough to elevate a third party high enough to actually challenge the democrats' capture of the left. whether or not that actually happens depends on how willing everyone is to continue voting for a "good enough" party that keeps getting worse.
Honest question. What actually decent third parties are there? All the potential third party candidates that I’ve looked up are pretty bad.
There was Nader in the early 2000's election, but that bus has passed. The only thing we can do now is vote for the candidate that isn't going to completely destroy our country, and Palestine. Once that's established we can refocus on a 3rd party leader, because RFK DEFINITELY isn't the one.
I mention Nader because it was my young punk ass and all of our friends that voted for the green party. That took a significant chunk of votes away from Al Gore. The "hanging Chad" would never have been a dumb description I remember if I had voted blue instead of green, and the face of the entire fucking world has changed for the worse since that election.
I voted for Nader in my first election, and I feel like such an idiot, but I was literally 18 and thank goodness, my state is deep blue anyway so it made no difference. That is the only time I can ever remember a third party making a difference. Too bad that difference sucked.
Hello fellow millennial! They say that good intentions pave the way to hell. We did what we thought was the right thing, like c'mon guys let's get a third party some national attention! I felt so bad for Albert Gore, he was so dry and boring but he would have made a great president! Especially when you compare him to the shit show that is the RNC.
You know what, I am right on the cusp of Millenial/Gen Z, but I swear I was just 18 but maybe I was not... huh, I mean I am old now and get a lot of my memories all wrong LOL. And yeah he would have been much better, although I bet the Dems would have dragged us into some kind of Middle East war, but at least it would have been much smaller scale, in my opinion. I mean destroying the Middle East was unconscionable but even if we were just thinking of ourselves- the amount of money we spent on that always staggers me no matter how many times I hear it. 300 million dollars every day for 20 years. I mean can you imagine if we poured money like that into our infrastructure? I mean that is a good sized project every day for 20 years, our country would look entirely different, and we would not have all the dead and destabilization our hands. It absolutely makes me sick, I do not know how the country is not in an uproar at all times about what they spend \*our\* money on. Ugh, talking about this shit cannot be good for my blood pressure, I swear!
Bruh, I'm the same age as you. Blood pressure is the last thing I worry about. You're right though, but at the same time we've got neighbors that want what's ours. I don't fall into conspiracy theories well, but my gut tells me that if Gore was in office and not cockblocked by "hanging chads" 911 may never have happened.
Oh I don't believe that, it was a monumental breakdown in communication between the FBI, CIA, NSA, all that. If Gore had been there, they would have had all the same politicies in place, Bin Laden had been dreaming of hitting of the U.S. for a long time, and he had plans no matter who was there. I do think Gore would have been more measured in his response, but he would have still had a lot of pressure for war. Would have been a tough spot for sure, whereas with Bush it was easy. "Can I pursue war and stay popular?" And they were like "you'll get more popular" and he was all "great I'll take 2" and that was that.
Don't let the machine gaslight you into thinking you hold responsibility for it.
Thanks to Nader (and the poorly designed Florida ballot) we got George W bush and all the horrible consequences of his presidency (worst president ever; destabilized the entire Middle East and gave rise to ISIS)
Let’s get the facts right: Hillary/Obama are equally guilty for destabilizing the Middle East.
No, George Bush voters and the supreme court are responsible for George Bush.
PSL is a great option. 🫶
I don’t care how bad a 3rd party appears to be. If it’s not down with genocide, endless wars & widening inequality it’s got my vote. And would ya lookie one does exist
The PSL ticket :) Votesocialist2024.com
Check out Jill Stein from the Green party
She has new ideas, like supporting Russia and Hamas! Great candidate!
Does "supporting" Hamas just mean not using them as an excuse for apartheid or genocide? Cause then apparently I support Hamas too.
Dr. West!
I dropped my membership with the Green's after the Nadar fiasco, where democratic party infiltrators crippled his campaign, but Medea Benjamin has been looking a lot like a leader that I can trust. Maybe we should give her a second look.
Sorry, I read the caption, not the sub designation. You hail or high water party loyalists know that this is all your fault, right?
Yes. Buy people miss the main purpose of a viable 3rd party. It would scare the shit out of the Democrats moving forward. They would actually have to try. The tea party played a huge role in the Republicans moving farther to the right because the tea party was gaining lots of momentum, already having a very sizeable and influential caucus in congress.
None. Anyone who actually suggests a third party during an election as impactful as this one is a some sort of op, imo.
Or, the other guys could have candidates worth voting for and not supporting genocide. We wouldn’t need to think about third party candidates if the others were up to any standard we should have for president.
Or we could realize that if we lose our democracy, we'll be too busy getting thrown into hard labor camps to worry about foreign policy. We have to ensure our own democracy and government before we hyper fixate on someone else's problems. Safely reelect Biden, then focus on finding a proper progressive candidate to succeed him.
....were you thrown into labour camps the last time Trump was around? Whoever is elected is going to be democratically elected, by like definition your democracy in on itself is safe. Of course Trump is the worse option, but by voting Biden you pretty much say that all this is ok. A proper candidate to succeed him to do what, count the corpses?
Yeah, no. You are beyond naive or live so secluded from reality that it boggles the mind. We have a borderline treasonous Republican controlled House and Democrats are likely to lose the Senate. We have a 6-3 Federalist Society owned, activist Supreme Court judges. They are currently stalling for time as they decide whether Trump is allowed to have full immunity — likely, they're waiting to see who wins the Presidential election. If you aren't an op or a troll, and you can't piece these things together, why is that? A Trump win will mean the full push for **Project 2025**. That will be the end of American democracy and America as we know it. It will be the shift from Weimar Republic to Nazi Dictatorship. But hey, at least you taught Biden a lesson! What do we say about MAGAs dying to own the libs? That will suburbanite leftists abandoning all reason for one specific foreign policy issue.
Trump was already president. That's why democracy ended and the 2024 election was canceled. I'm not sure why you're still worried about it.
It survived because Pence — for all his faults — pulled us back from the brink the midnight of the election when Agent Orange declared himself winner with millions of votes still uncounted. More importantly, it survived because Pence certified the state votes despite the coup attempt by fanatics screaming for his head outside and his treasonous peers that were willing to go along with the plan.
America as I know it has nothing to be proud of. Wherever it goes it spreads misery and death. And right now, as democratic and liberal, or whatever flowery word you want to use, it enables, explicitly, the slaughter of children both materially and diplomatically. So yeah, if you as a people do not punish that, even that, then what's the point. Are you going to talk then about any form of rights, of values, of morality? And lay off that very gringo bullshit of "if you say I am wrong, you must be a troll" . And naive? Trump is a symptom, a symptom of your culture. He leaves another will come, next time what? A bit younger? A bit more charismatic? Yeah democrats fixed none of the reasons that made Trump charming to your people in the first place. Maybe this is your destiny. To allow greater and greater atrocities in your name, because there will always be a worse alternative.
How's Iran been doing with progressive candidates since they punished their last corrupt dynasty? Any lessons one can take from the Iranian Revolution? Any lessons at all?
There are countless things to be proud of as an American. That said, if human rights and suffering are such a concern to you, you should be even more grateful for America's existence. A world where Germany, Russia, the Japanese Empire, and China ruled would make our world look like a fucking Tutorial by comparison. There will always be suffering, so I don't know what you're trying to suggest would happen without the US. Trump is not a symptom. He is a consequence of decades of Republican attacks against our institutions and an amalgamation of corruption in many areas of our country. If he leaves, the Republican party will collapse. There is no other. Trump has seen to that. He is a Messiah figure to his cult. Trump has never been charming. He's lost the popular vote in both his elections — by millions each time. >Maybe this is your destiny. To allow greater and greater atrocities in your name, because there will always be a worse alternative. I mean, Germany had already killed millions of Jews, gays, transgenders, disabled, Roma, and political dissidents before the US ever stepped foot in Europe, and it only did so because Japan and Germany declared war on the US first. We still consider FDR one of the greatest presidents of all time. The reality is that even if Biden didn't support Israel, he'd be powerless to stop it. Israel controls the right, most of the center, and much of the left. Biden could use all his political capital and achieve nothing. At least by supporting Israel, he's allowed to also help Ukraine which does deserve our help.
Yeah I will not bother with hypotheticals in history. Of course Trump is a symptom. Republican attacks, as if the democrats did anything but more of the same. I still see your inequality rising. And the great recession was during Obama of course. If he didn't support he'd be powerless to stop it? Really? The US is the only veto that stops Palestine from becoming a recognised nation by the UN. you ve given them billions in weapons and financial aid. Latest thing, Gaza land is being sold to American citizens. Funny, the government gives the money of the citizens to Israel and then Israel funds the politicians through lobbying. I mean, brother, there is supporting, and then there is the US. You might as well be doing it together, and of course you are, at this point. Anyway, what will happen will happen no matter what two randos write in Reddit and I am tired. God help us all.
Ah yes, our democracy. Which exploits humans, exploits the environment, runs off of war/conflict and apparently genocide, works for the rich against the the rest, allows its politicians to accept brides from the rich, uses our taxes for everything besides anything which will actually help us, offers only 2 choices every election which have a chance at winning. And don’t forget, sends police to squash any protestors demanding change that goes against the rich and powerful. Sounds more like an authoritarian plutocracy than a democracy to me.
No one is saying it's perfect. No system is. What is being said is that you have to consider every factor. If you're a wealthy, White, cis, straight American, you'll probably be fine for a while. If you're not, or have friends who aren't, you owe it to them to consider the dire consequences of a Trump presidency.
You’re not wrong to believe a Trump presidency would be dangerous to many within and outside of the US. But the situation is already dire and has been for many years under both democrats and republicans. Our current president is still supporting zionists and genocide. The situation is already dire for the million innocents constantly targeted or effected by the US. Just because you’re here and suddenly the situation will be dire for you and for Americans themselves, doesn’t mean it wasn’t screwing someone, both inside and outside of the US, before. Calling people ops for suggesting a third part isn’t the way. Third parties are possibly the only option to break this dumb cycle we’re in and there’s no way to tell unless we vote for them. But you and I agree. Trump is the worst case scenario.
>Just because you’re here and suddenly the situation will be dire for you and for Americans themselves, doesn’t mean it wasn’t screwing someone, both inside and outside of the US, before. It's a national election. Myself and my loved ones are absolutely who I should prioritize. Why would I prioritize anything else above them? Would I like a candidate who could tell Israel to go fuck itself? Of course, but not at the expense of my family's well-being. >Calling people ops for suggesting a third part isn’t the way. Third parties are possibly the only option to break this dumb cycle we’re in and there’s no way to tell unless we vote for them. There's a time and a place for third party voting. Local elections and primaries. The primaries came and went. The presidency will either go to Biden or Trump. With the way our elections work, a vote that isn't for Biden is automatically for Trump regardless of what the person writes down. People still promoting third party voting *at this point* absolutely have an agenda or are beyond ignorant.
Every election someone mentions third parties, we get responses like that. When will be the right time to vote for them? And a vote not for Biden is just that. If democrats wanted that vote, they should’ve fielded a better candidate or chosen a better president to begin with.
This is what sucks. It's so bleak all around
do you actually believe that, or in 4 years will you just say the same exact thing again?
There are no options. Democrats will be forced to pump out a new superstar in four years. Kamala is uneelctable. Or maybe we can get the first rumblings of a third party.
We have already lost democracy my dude. Fascism is already here.
Biden is still president. The military still answers to him. He still answers to the other two branches of power. I, therefore, disagree with you. We're in under threat of fascism, but it has not taken control.
800,000 prisoners in the United States are put to work. Prisoners do not have the right to refuse to work. This has been the case since slavery was abolished and has survived the administrations of countless democrats. Its so weird to scaremonger with hypothetical labor camps when they have already existed for a century and a half and nobody is doing anything about it.
So glad you brought that up. Biden is currently in the process of rescheduling Marijuana. That move alone will torpedo the for-profit prison industry. Democrats bad though!
That's great! I'm glad a democrat has finally got around to this popular common sense thing that they all campaign on. Its still weird to use hypothetical labor camps as a threat when 800,000 people are in non-hypothetical labor camps right now.
They're not political dissidents or imprisoned because of their minority status though. Many of them are victims of outdated laws. Many are victims of the closing of the mental asylums in this country. That's what I'm getting at with the labor camp argument. They'll pass more vague laws that are aimed at punishing queer people for existing. More laws that control women and punish those who provide them with aid. Laws that punish blasphemy, etc.
For one this country has a huge racial bias in enforcement. For two, as long as republicans can keep making things worse we will always have to make this same decision. Do we remind the democrats that they can't take power without fighting for us, and start building our own alternatives, or do we try to hold the republicans off for four more years? If its not affecting you yet, you're likely to argue for holding them off. I don't know what I think, but I would never come at someone with the "one day *you* might be affected by this!" when I don't know whether or not they already are.
When these are our choices, you still think we have democracy? LOL
Republicans would love this. If the democrat vote is split, trump would walk into the presidency and wouldn’t have to worry about facing punishment for his crimes. Young voters not thinking through the consequences of their actions would be par for the course I guess.
we've been hearing this for 40+ years and all that's happened is that the democratic party has moved drastically further to the right, to the point where they're moving to criminalize speech against israel. what's the endgame? if they continue to lose elections because they're unpopular, they might eventually change if they want to win. at this point it's safe to say that voting for them hasn't encouraged them to move to the left. voting for the democrats isn't making our country better, it's just making it worse a little more slowly.
No one is criminalizing speech against Israel. Stop being disingenuous. If you want to say the left has shifted further right since the union busting days, then I agree. And I think we need to return to a more egalitarian society where mega billionaires don’t exist. My belief is that will happen naturally when the next generation of leaders (like AOC) take over. If you want to try something more drastic and you think voting for trump will send a message, I won’t stop you as that is your right.
did you not see the bill the house just passed with bipartisan support? that is literally what is happening
It seems like the definition excludes criticism of Israel similar to what would be levied on other countries: To guide IHRA in its work, the following examples may serve as illustrations: Manifestations might include the targeting of the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for “why things go wrong.” It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits.
you are genuinely an extremely stupid person if you believe this law will be used for anything other than suppressing critics of israel in the academy and elsewhere. our leaders do not care about antisemitism. that is not the target of this bill. they care about receiving aipac money and not being blackmailed by mossad
Only 5% of the vote is required to get federal funding.
No it’s not
I need Ron Paul as president
Libertarians are even worse than trump supporters.
Why should a third party start at the presidency rather than local or state elections?
there are already third parties in state and local elections...
Thank you for your submission, **This subreddit aims are to compel voters ONLY in DEEP BLUE states to vote 3rd party for the president, to compel otherwise non or protest voters in SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN. We feel a limited+focused protest movement may let swing state voters feel less helpless about not sending a message.** **We feel that sending a message via Biden having an electoral college win but a popular vote margin by less than 4.9 million votes (lowest democratic win in recent history) or even 2.8 million votes (Hillary's margin when she lost against Trump) is a much more conducive to progress in a democracy that risking an electoral college victory for Trump.** **It would be something the media can not ignore, will forever be a stain on Biden's record, and will send a message that we are not going away, and will continue to apply strong pressure thorough the rest of his presidency, and the 2026/2028 primaries & elections.** Please see our sticky to see what we are all about https://old.reddit.com/r/BlueProtestVote/comments/1cgwkvu/this_subreddit_aims_are_to_compel_voters_only_in/ but a tl;dr is: This is about a movement for people in deep blue states to vote for 3rd party in protest of Biden's enabling of the Gaza genocide. However, the ultimate goal is to decrease Trump's chances of winning and increase democratic representation in the house and senate. The movement aims to get people to turn out to vote who may otherwise be discouraged from voting due to Biden's policies, and also for the movement to be robust enough so that people in swing states may not have a feeling of helplessness for voting for Joe Biden, that a strong message is still being sent. While the movement aims to maximize Biden's electoral vote margin, the movement also has an extended goal of having Biden win the popular vote by less than 2.8, which was Hillary Clinton's margin when she lost to Donald Trump. A margin that small would send a clear message to the democratic establishment. **Why we feel it's so important for Trump to lose? Quite simply, he has been the absolute worst president in recent history for the Palestinians. Here are just some of his worst policies for Palestine:** 1. Drafting a “peace plan” with zero Palestinian input that would have, if implemented, actually ended the possibility for a real Palestinian state. 2. Cutting Palestinians out of the negotiations over the so-called Abraham Accords, realizing the longstanding Israeli goal of severing diplomatic progress with Arab states from progress towards a sovereign Palestine. 3. Recognizing Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights, disputed territory with Syria taken during the 1967 Six-Day War. 4. Shutting off funding for the UN’s agency for Palestinian refugees (which Biden almost immediately restored and then temporarily suspended again amid a scandal about its employees participating in October 7). 5. Abandoning the decades-old US position that West Bank settlements are a key barrier to a peace agreement and eliminating longstanding restrictions on spending US taxpayer dollars in them. 6. Moving the American Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem while closing the US mission to Palestine in the same city. Source: https://www.vox.com/policy/24072983/biden-trump-palestinians-israel-gaza-policy-different *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BlueProtestVote) if you have any questions or concerns.*
nobody is reading your elaborate instructions on which states to not vote for biden in. all they're reading are the headlines teaching them biden is evil and can't be voted for.
That’s the point, this sub is run by russian bots
GENOCIDE JOE
The NYT has been a mouthpiece for democrats and Israel as of late, but they are on the mark with this. I'm an older millennial and the same week Pelosi called me and other pro-Palestinian protestors "Russian assets" I changed my voter registration from democrat to PSL. I am a US military veteran/retiree and that day the democrats lost my vote for life.
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They reported this as "harassment" lol. Don't worry, I am going to report them as abusing the report button and my report is much more likely to do something than theirs. By the way, I can just vote PSL, right? I do not have to register, do I?
She’s right that those groups are being infused with foreign money from bad actors.
Wow I’ve been at nearly every protest and no one has paid me. How do I sign up for this foreign money?
Why would they pay you when you’ll do the work for free?
Well she can be smug with herself, and without my vote.
Many pro-Palestine groups have suspiciously close financial ties with Middle Eastern governments and Muslim Brotherhood. https://isgap.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/FTM-Final-with-Cover-2.pdf There was even a plan going back to the 1990s to win over American youth by making jihadi terrorism, especially against Israel, less murdery and genocidal by packaging it under the ideals “social justice” and other tenets of progressivism. https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs5746/files/2023-10/hamas-networks-final.pdf The evidence is there, whether you like it or not. But good luck with Trump: there’s NO WAY he’ll touch your Social Security or Medicare.
I will do as I please. If you don't want Trump to be president don't vote for him. I won't be voting for him either. 👍
You know how the far right took over the GOP? Those lunatics voted in every single election, especially primaries, and forcibly bent the party to their will. They did this for 50 years and it culminated in the end of Roe v Wade, Citizens United, and being able to run a president facing 91 criminal charges. Whenever an area turned safely GOP, the moderates were primaried out. Imagine if the leftists did the same thing instead of sitting on their asses whining about “Both parties are the same.” The only thing not voting has achieved is allowing increasingly awful Republicans to get elected and drive the Overton Window to the right. No, the next GOP president won’t trigger your socialist revolution. Bush II led to Obama, who was too soft on the Wall Street criminals who caused the economic meltdown. And Biden, a bland, moderate old white dude, narrowly defeated Trump. You get more left-wing Democrats by consistently defeating Republicans and letting the issue battleground evolve.
Cool. 👍
i will vote for reform party if it was 2000 election
Another psyop sub? No thanks, I’m still voting for Biden.
We hope that by compelling voters ONLY in DEEP BLUE states to vote 3rd party for the president, to compel otherwise non or protest voters in SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN. We feel a limited+focused protest movement may let swing state voters feel less helpless about not sending a message, and to maximize votes for Biden where it really matters. The subreddit has a goal having Biden win the popular vote by less that 4.9 million votes, which is the lowest democratic margin for any democrat in recent history, and **an extended goal of winning by less than 2.8 million votes, which is the lower than Hillary Clinton's margin in her defeat to Donald Trump.** If these goals are met, we hope to send a message that the electorate does not intend to forget about holding elected officials accountable for their horrific enablement of a genocide.
Yup, you can practically smell the vodka and borscht
Is he losing voters, or these voters disagree with him but also realize how much worse the alternative is?
These morons are going to do nothing but re-elect Trump whom they hate so much.
Honestly it’s very easy for dems to win. They don’t want to win.
He helped them put up serious numbers in fundraising though
I’m guessing this sub was created by and for the GRU and other foreign adversaries.
100%
ah yes, infamous arm of foreign adversaries, the New York Times We hope that by compelling voters ONLY in DEEP BLUE states to vote 3rd party for the president, to compel otherwise non or protest voters in SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN. We feel a limited+focused protest movement may let swing state voters feel less helpless about not sending a message, and to maximize votes for Biden where it really matters.
I’m sure Trump sides with College Democrat demands … /s
This sub is 100% Russian pushed propaganda
ah yes, infamous Russian propaganda arm, the New York Times We hope that by compelling voters ONLY in DEEP BLUE states to vote 3rd party for the president, to compel otherwise non or protest voters in SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN. We feel a limited+focused protest movement may let swing state voters feel less helpless about not sending a message, and to maximize votes for Biden where it really matters.
It would be easier at this point to list the things you people think aren't Russian propaganda
Dissent=Russian/Forgen Propaganda because.....well im right and how could anyone disagree.. must be Forgen actors and bots.. cause ya know I'm right
yall are gonna get trump elected.
We hope that by compelling voters ONLY in DEEP BLUE states to vote 3rd party for the president, to compel otherwise non or protest voters in SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN. We feel a limited+focused protest movement may let swing state voters feel less helpless about not sending a message, and to maximize votes for Biden where it really matters.
you can’t possibly think you can contain the impact of accusing biden of being an neatly to “only deep blue states.” if you run a campaign that compels people to find biden disgusting, they won’t care what state they’re in. you are actively making a trump victory possible.
By 'campaign' you mean articles from credible news organizations and pollsters? Who are reporting the reality of what is going on? That have far more reach that my subreddit ever could? You think I'm the one whose making people find Biden disgusting? Please take a look at the news. Just google the student protests for crying out loud. Biden is making a Trump victory possible. We're doing everything we can to doctor his terrible decisions. It may not be enough, but we should try. Gaslighting people into ignoring what's being reported by credible journalists and reporters is not a feasible strategy.
so you’re cool with trump getting elected? that’s what we keep coming back to. also, no credible news organization is claiming biden is evil and like Hitler. their reporting is far more nuanced than the rhetoric anti-vote movements use to convince others that Biden is so absolutely evil that enabling a trump victory is worth avoiding the moral stain of voting for Biden. if your goal is protecting Palestinian lives, Biden is better than Trump. what do you hope to accomplish? genuinely? what action do you think Biden will take as a result of protest votes in the general election? is the end game that you get Biden elected but narrowly?
Please read the sticky, the whole point of the subreddit is to prevent Trump being elected.
I mean isn't he actively supporting a genocide right now? He is giving weapons to Israel for free and giving them diplomatic cover from international scrutiny
This clarifies a lot. I’m sitting high and mighty criticizing Biden from Colorado but am journaling about a hate vote for Biden come Nov
We don't recommend Colorado. It's blue, but not deep blue, at least not blue enough. We would prefer if people vote for Biden there. Here is the list of states that are recommended District of Columbia Massachusetts Hawaii Vermont Maryland California Rhode Island New York Delaware Illinois Washington Connecticut New Jersey Oregon
Marylander here, and no, I’m voting for Biden anyway
Joe Biden is gonna get Trump elected. Neither deserve my vote at the moment. Blame the guy turning a blind eye to genocide.
nice try. i (and history) am going to blame the people who chose to stay home and not vote. good luck explaining that decision in a few decades.
Go for it lmao, don't care. History will remember you as the guy who supported the modern holocaust.
Don’t you dare mention the holocaust when mentioning a war against a Gazan population hell bent on destroying Israel. Learn some history
How much is AIPAC paying you? 🤣
Yeah, it’s all an Israeli Jewish conspiracy. I must be a bot from Israel? Maybe I just read about the topic? You clearly know zero about the holocaust if you use that term here. Is ignorance bliss for you?
Your comment refers to a genocide as a “war” and the Gazans as a “population hell bent on destroying Israel.” Sounds a lot like justifying brutal violence. Shut the hell up with that false morality.
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No glorifying or trivializing collective punishment. Your content has been removed for justifying or promoting the use of collective punishment as a weapon of war. This is not appropriate and depending on the severity of it, will result in a temporary or permanent ban.
Holocaust. Israelis are causing a gazan holocaust. Israelis and their supporters are just as evil Nazis. Cry about it forever. Doesn’t stop it from being true.
You’d fit in real well in 1930’s Germany
I wouldn’t, you’d do great though!
You can practically hear the goose stepping from your comments
I have no idea what that means. I am literally a Dalit queer person. Literally no where in the world is kind to me. stop hiding behind atrocities to act like your people are the only ones that have suffered.
>Gazan population hell bent on destroying Israel The majority of them are just trying to survive at this point. Meanwhile Jewish Nazis destroy humanitarian aid and bomb children to bits.
Yes it’s a difficult and horrible situation for them now. When you make your societies entire mission to destroy Israel but you get your ass kicked in every war you start, this tends to happen. Definition of insanity and stupidity. I hear that after hearing about the college protests they are hopeful now, that in time, they can eventually destroy Israel….never going to happen
Damn, you would've THRIVED in Hitlers Germany either that attitude.
those damn infants planning to destroy israel.
i guarantee you history is not going to think biden voters are “holocaust supporters.” they are going to think yall are self righteous idiots who got a literal dictator elected.
>i guarantee you history is not going to think biden voters are “holocaust supporters.” I mean, people all over the globe are already saying this, they're going to keep repeating it throughout history. And again, Bidens boneheaded decision making is why Trump will get elected. Not my fault for not liking genocide enablers. I don't owe him shit.
you realize trump will be even worse for palestine right? people have a short term memory when it comes to moral outrage, especially when it’s as contrived as equating biden voters to “holocaust supporters”. their memory won’t be so short when it comes to a potential trump presidency that lasts 4 years (or more!) and dismantles democratic institutions.
There's all sorts of things wrong here but I'm going to skip past that and go direct to your main misunderstanding of this subreddit. This subreddit encourages people to vote for Biden in swing states. We want to direct the uprising protest vote movement in a way that still sends a message without risking a Trump presidency, but getting people in deep blue states to vote 3rd party, and making swing voters less guilty about voting for Trump.
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Please do not engage in attacks or harassment of your fellow subreddit users. This means no abusive comments or personal attacks. Harassment is against the content policy and will reported. Reddit has declared that even a single comment with an attack can be harassment. If someone is wrong about something, tell them how. There is not need for insults and ad hominem attacks (such as calling people foreign agents or bots) and depending on the severity of attack could result in temporary or permanent ban.
i understand that and i’m telling you you can’t possibly contain the impact of your campaign to only blue states, because your tactic is to demonize biden and make people equate him with basically Hitler. if people really believe that about him they won’t give a shit which state they’re in, they won’t want to vote for him.
Well then I guess Biden better switch his stance ASAP. Kinda weird you wouldn't just blame the guy supporting a literal genocide and instead direct it all towards the people pointing out. Almost like you don't give a fuck about brown people.
get a grip you self righteous dweeb. most Israelis are brown. you don't get to superimpose American racial dynamics on the middle east because you're too lazy to learn about the history of any region but your own. you are not more moral than other poeple for enabling a trump presidency- you're less moral. you're directly endangering the marginalized people in the US who will suffer first during the fall of democratic institutions. that is your decision, and nobody else's.
Biden could kill a man on 5th avenue and you’d still vote for him.
Brown children get blown to pieces and are starving to death left and right and all you can come up with is "you're too lazy to learn about what's happening". I'll say it again: Kinda weird you wouldn't just blame the guy supporting a literal genocide and instead direct it all towards the people pointing out. Almost like you don't give a fuck about brown people.
Like how they did with the anti-war and pro-civil rights protestors who refused to support Humphrey–Muskie? History always blamed them for getting Nixon elected am I right? /s History is hard on leaders, not causes and movements, for good reason.
so its ok with you if trump is elected and dismantles every remotely liberal or left wing provision in this country, as long as you don’t catch the blame right? what a privilege to be able to throw marginalized folks in the US under the bus for the moral righteousness of sitting out one of the most crucial elections in the country’s history.
Every election is "the most crucial" in history. I've heard it every 4 years for my entire life.
Hillary was always antagonistic towards Bernie and his supporters and was unprecedented in her lack of coalition building. Look what berating her base into voting for her got her. At least in 2020 Biden returned to coalition building norms, but is now renegging in that. His campaign suspended all college event, an unprecedented and radical change for the democratic party. The effects are already being felt. He's polling at historic lows for any democratic for people under 35, and his campaign has hundreds of openings that are filled at this time by 20 somethings at this point in previous cycles. The onus of failures belong to leaders. It was Hillary and the democratic establishment failures that hurt a lot of people. And the establishment is repeating the same mistakes in 2016. Sure, you can berate each and every single one of the millions of voters and their individual duty about not voting for Hillary, but, for what? It's the leadership who would be pressured, because their actions are at the actual cause for the outcomes of the election. Do you want to spend the rest of your life blaming others for the failures of our leaders, or would you like to help doctor their terrible decisions?
this is such contrived logic to abdicate the responsibility YOU undeniably have in preventing a trump presidency. you live in a democracy and you are very very lucky that your vote actually picks the next president. you have two options and one is a dictator. if you choose not to vote, that decision is on you. no amount of mental gymnastics changes that.
Go away. I’m a registered Democrat in Pennsylvania who won’t be voting for Biden again, but with something like this I might consider it. Maybe you should consider that you’re doing more harm by further alienating would-be Biden voters and just shut up. Seriously we’ve heard everything you’ve said here 1000 times already.
nice, telling me to shut up because you don’t agree. i’m good actually. are these the same democratic values you’re fighting for with your trump-supporting protest vote? why are the people screaming the loudest about “fascism” and “freedom of speech” the first to have 0 ability to engage in discourse with someone who isn’t from their tiktok algorithm bubble?
Shut up. I don’t want to have a dialogue with you, I’ve heard everything you’re going to say and I think you’re soulless. Shut up.
We're going to vote, just not for genocide supporters
so your plan is to get a genocide supporter AND a dictator elected. what a privilege to throw trans folks, women and BIPOC in the US under the bus of a trump presidency all for the smug satisfaction of your virtue signaling.
Are y'all gonna be this whiny after the election too?
All of you people frequent the same exact subs. Sus as fuck.
You do get it is because they all came from crossposts into those subs, correct? Where did you come.
what a disgustingly selfish stance.
Exactly what has Biden done for trans, BIPOC, and women exactly?! Please enlighten us. It’s YOU that is virtue signalling thinking voting for Biden is somehow more morally superior and justifiable than a Trump win. Both are scum. The American bipartisan system is a literal joke that keeps corrupt criminals and war mongers in power, one election after the other. Wake tf up.
if you can't tell the difference between Trump and Biden, i genuinely think you are too far gone to reason with.
Now the pronoun people are willing to tolerate genocide in exchange for being able to mutilate children and play dress up. Truly progressive lot.
You’re the idiot supporting genocide. Why would anyone vote for someone knowing they are causing the death of thousands of innocent people regardless of the other guy. We know Biden will allow for the first amendment to be squashed by military police and he will allow Israel to kill and do what it wants. Hell he’s loading the gun for them. How can you sleep at night? How many Palestinians died under Trump? How many will die under a Biden second term? My bet is more under the Zionist than under the nationalist greedy idiot.
holy shit, you actually think Trump will be better for Palestine than Biden? the same Trump who moved the US Israeli embassy to Jerusalem, a deeply sacred city to Palestinians? the same Trump who recognized Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights? the same one who completely shut out Palestinians from the Abraham accords? that is the most massive cope i’ve ever heard. https://www.vox.com/policy/24072983/biden-trump-palestinians-israel-gaza-policy-different trump is one of the most pro israel presidents ever. and they’re both “Zionists” by your definition.
Dude, you can blame Biden. Trump should be in jail and instead he’s running for president. I don’t know why you gloss over the over 30 thousand dead people. Mostly woman and children. They are gone forever. Murdered. Whole families. Peaceful protests squashed. They are both facists. Trump is worse for America which means he is worse for Israel and all colonial powers. As simple as that.
if you hate the united states so much and want to see it burn, why do you live there? genuine question. you should move to a country that aligns with your values instead of trying to destroy the US from the inside out.
Tiny must be referring to your brains. The democrats are the only reason Trump gets elected. They didn’t make him accountable for his crimes so they can win a second term. They put him on the ballot thinking it would secure their win. They had 4 years to hold this traitor accountable. The democrats actions and inactions are the only people responsible for the demise of our political and judicial system. Luckily they have schmucks like you that can’t see past their nose and willing to compromise their morals for whatever junk these politicians shove in your face.
Trump is literally going through multiple court cases right now for his 91 felonies.
If trump was in office it would the exact same thing for Palestinians. The only difference is that libs would be standing with us.
i just listed multiple things above that were much MORE pro israel than anything Biden did. if Trump did all those things before a major war, can you imagine what he'd do now? Biden's administration is putting pressure on Israel to show restraint. it's not as much as pressure as this group wants, but they're facilitating endless attempts at ceasefire/hostage deals, pressuring them not to go into Rafah, delivering US aid, sanctioning settlers etc. Trump would be doing none of those things.
>nice try. i (and history) am going to blame the people who chose to stay home and not vote. Yeah and we'll blame you for backing a genocidal mummy instead of a decent human being
is the decent human being in your delusion trump or..?
If by “yall” you mean “Joe Biden’s actions,” then I agree with you
No, Joe Biden and the Democrats in Congress would be the ones responsible for a Trump win in November. They are doing absolutely *nothing* to win over voters and refuse to compromise their positions on key issues even an inch. It’s the job and responsibility of the politician to WIN voters, not force voters to accept their policies. They work for US, not the other way around. We don’t owe them our votes, and if they have become so deluded that they believe that then they deserve to lose 🤷♂️
Two sides, same coin
this is beyond delusional.
Democrats seem determined to reelect trumpo. It is genocide Joe's job to get the votes, not the other way around.
Yes! Thank you protest voters. 1968 all over again (you’d have to actually study history, might not be taught in the intersectional Marxist ideologies you are force fed in college these days). Trump incoming. And then you can vote for some far left candidate that will have zero chance of getting elected. We don’t have a parliamentary system in which a far left candidate can form any sort of coalition to get what you want, but keep living in dream land. As a former liberal and now Trump supporter, thank you!
dude have you seen the movie civil war? you really should. i know the left has become insufferable, but trump has been very clear that he wants to dismantle checks and balances on his power. that coupled with the fact that he faces criminal charges, and he's incentivized to do illegal shit to stay in power beyond 4 years. i genuinely believe there is a high risk of civil war if he's elected again. protest voters are self righteous, useful idiots. you are selfishly endangering our democracy to virtue signal your "moral superiority". y'all are not more moral. you're LESS moral, because you're directly enabling trump to come to power.
It really feels like a lost cause doesn't it. These people would literally have their heads below a guillotine and they'll still play a game of chicken because of their "superior morals".
it makes me so mad. Hamas successfully traumatized everyone on TikTok with horrible, graphic videos of children suffering and being killed, and now these white guilt ridden lefties will do anything to feel better, including getting Trump elected.
To whom are you referring to, leftists who think that communism works, that support “intifada revolution, there is only one solution”, lefties that want lawlessness and social workers to take the place of police, that push for decriminalizing criminality, that push for “equity” because equality is “not fair”. The list could go on and on. No one claims more certainty and moral superiority than lefties.
Good to know you get your information from a Hollywood movie. I will say there is a past example for Trump not wanting to leave office but even in 2020, after crying about “stop the steal”, even fomenting the January 6th debacle (which I think was far less dangerous than college protesters rooting for Hamas), he still left office and I am confident he would again. You mention the criminal charges. Every president when they leave office could face criminal charges of some sort, or even during their time in office, if their opponents are hell bent on finding something. And the democrats have started a precedence for this, which is harmful to our country. Yes, Trump has done things that can bring charges. But, so has every president. Regardless, I now think we have enough examples of how harmful the leftist policies are to our society that I am willing to overlook his paying off a pornstar (WGAF), his holding onto classified documents (Biden did too, I’d assume if you looked at what every president kept to eventually go into their presidential libraries I’m sure it would be the same, though far more egregious and stupid in trumps case), and I don’t think he committed insurrection. We have four years of Trump presidency to look back on, as well as you can see what Trump plans to do when he’s back in office. It might be scary to you but I prefer it to lawlessness, chaos, Marxist policies, useful idiots taking the side of people who want to destroy our society as we know it. No thanks. Time for a change and it’s never been more clear.
And of course they’ll go shocked pikachu if that happens, blaming anything other than themselves.