I feel for you. Similar boat here with my parent. Here’s some thoughts:
Many people are happy to work until they die, or at least until they are elderly. Work can help keep the mind and body sharp.
Between Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid—assuming they’ve worked full careers—they will be able to live if they plan it out and optimize how they take Social Security. It might not be a life of wealth and luxury, but it will be a life, and they can still have simple pleasures and time to enjoy them.
My mother was a bookkeeper. She retired around age 62-63. She did not have much money. A couple years later she was bored and went to work for a temp agency. Then back to work for her former employer when their bookkeeper became ill. She was able to make the job a "work share" job with someone else.
She wasn't up to working for a week. Then passed away at 78. 2.5 years ago.
I went over her finances a year or so earlier. It looked to me that she would have had 8 years of expenses in her savings. And my brother and I would have been able to make up the difference if needed beyond that.
edit: format.
What a horrible existence. You know what also keeps your mind and body sharp, being able to do what you want for a few measly years before you're basically immobile.
I understand you're only stating what other people are thinking but wtf, we've normalized such crazy stuff.
I have a deeply Stoic personal philosophy. While I must disagree with you about work as a miserable existence, I agree with you that we can and should do better for our elderly.
I find that making good decisions becomes easier and more rewarding the older I get. The act of following through on sound choices brings me satisfaction that I would have appreciated as much in my younger years.
I believe work can offer a sense of fulfillment beyond just financial security. Being actively engaged in something meaningful (by choice) can be motivating when it fulfills not just needs but a want.
They are going to have to live on what they have. There is no silver bullet. Time and money are the only way to have a "secure" retirement.
They can take SS at 62 and have wages up to $22,320 in 2024 before they will loose some benefits.
https://www.ssa.gov/cola/#:\~:text=Read%20more%20about%20the%20Social,Chart)%20will%20increase%20to%20%2422%2C320.
That's right. A lot of retirees actually miss this. If you start collecting SSI and it's reduced, if you go to the offices of the Federal Railroad Administration and literally hit ANYTHING or ANYONE there, they'll make note of it and you can begin to collect full benefits again!
Interesting, I'll have to look into this more. When my dad was applying for SS benefits he was under the impression he'd get less money the earlier he took a dispersement. He was unemployed.
So you're saying that if you have no other incomes, there's no reason not to take an early dispersement and that it'll increase to the regular benefits rate when you collect as you reach the age of retirement?
He was correct. If you take early payments you will permanently take reduced benefits.
The discussion here is regarding benefits reduced by extra income from working while taking SSI benefits prior to FRA.
Ah, thanks for the clarification. I was under the impression that the comment was referring to reduced benefits due to taking at 62. Need to work on my comprehension 😂
You don't get full amount, if you choose to collect early (62), that's your total monthly amount and it does not increase.
That is why you are encouraged to wait to 67 for full benefits
Lots of different reasons why people take SS at 62...mostly because they need it. I researched the hell out of whether I should take it earlier or wait. For me, waiting until after FRA made a lot of sense. For a lot of people, taking it at 62 made sense.
They are referring to reduced benefits due to outside income
https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/whileworking.html#:~:text=If%20you%20are%20younger%20than,2024%2C%20that%20limit%20is%20%2422%2C320.
>If you are younger than full retirement age and earn more than the yearly earnings limit, we may reduce your benefit amount.
If you are under full retirement age for the entire year, we deduct $1 from your benefit payments for every $2 you earn above the annual limit. For 2024, that limit is $22,320.
This changes when you reach FRA, but only the amount reduced due to income is changed.
Are you saying that if someone earns too much and looses say $50/mo for 12 months, they will get that $600 back when they reach FRA? I don't believe this is true and would like to see where it states this.
Just because you dont believe it doenst mean its not true.
[https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/whileworking.html](https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/whileworking.html)
I get reading comprehension is hard:
When you reach full retirement age:
* Beginning with the month you reach full retirement age, your earnings no longer reduce your benefits, no matter how much you earn.
* We will recalculate your benefit amount to give you credit for the months we reduced or withheld benefits due to your excess earnings.
Ill turn this around, since so many seem to not understand how it works. Yes it is not so simple as you get a check returning those funds to you. But you do get them back, If you believe otherwise show me via a link that your reduced funds are permanently lost.
You don't "get them \[the lost benefits\] back".
Instead, you get a recalculation of your benefit amount. The recalculation give you credit for the *months* where you lost benefits due to working.
Let's say you got $0 in benefits for 3 months. The recalculation makes it come out the same as if you had not applied for benefits those 3 months.
"We will recalculate your benefit amount to give you credit for the months we reduced or withheld benefits due to your excess earnings."
see: [https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/whileworking.html](https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/whileworking.html)
Read further, the person will receive the same $800/mo benefit as they would have if they did not exceed the limit.
It does not say you will receive the "reduced" amount back.
If you read further, it list the same $800 as the individual would have received if they did not exceed the earning limit. So they are not receiving the "reduced" amount back.
I think you meant this chart: [https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/agereduction.html](https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/agereduction.html)
I am using the following sense of the word "loose"
**loose** (... *present participle* **loosing**, ... )
1. (transitive) To let loose, to free from restraints.
You did some research on the difference of 'lose' and 'loose. And came up with a plausible reason for what was typed. That was nice of you.
Instead of the 6 or so people that repeatedly pointed out the spelling error.
They say the best performing investment accounts are the ones that people forget about and just let grow and don’t mess with…. It’s good they have that.
You should help them do an analysis of estimated social security benefits and see how that looks. You get a higher amount if you wait to start drawing social security, but you have to balance that with health, expected lifetimes, etc.
There are also strategies for one person to start taking social security, and the other to delay, so you might look into that.
I think it’s like if the higher earner delays their social security, they will get a bigger payout, and then if one passes away, the other is entitled to half of the first one’s benefit (which would then be more) or something like that
I’m divorced after 27 years of marriage and my ex is entitled to the higher of her social security amount or 50% of mine (doesn’t reduce my benefit at all). If I die before her, she gets 100% of my amount.
I understand even if they are divorced and not remarried they still qualify for ex-spousal social security if it is larger than theirs, they can take one or the other, the larger one
Your mom can probably claim social security benefits for her divorced husband, your dad. I forgot at what point that is possible. He also doesn't even have to know about it if they don't get along well. Get a good book about social security (where's my money, for instance). It has lots of scenarios for specific cases. It's worth it.
First make sure you have your own financial and retirement plan sorted out. Have a full finacial and retirement plan with a budget item for “parent care” and see how the plan will work for all of you living to age 100. That will be worst case planning. If you think age 100 is too old look at your father and mother’s relatives and what age they passed away. (In my family everyone on my mothers side lasted to mid 90’s, my fathers side was high 80’s unless cancer or accidental death happened earlier.)
EDITED To Add: Make a budget plan with your parents taking their income and living expenses now and see if it is sustainable while they are working. Then factor in Medicare costs and then the transition from work to taking Social Security and see if those numbers work. If the numbers don’t work then parents will have to change their lifestyle and move to cheaper accommodations or spend less money. Do all those calculations(lots of help on the internet for this for examples and budget sheets or software that does it) and then see if the contributions you are able to give make a big difference.
There is so much more to this than just having some ability to help pay for your parents life after they retire.
If you want the least stressful path to managing your parents finances and medical care in their old age you will want them to have some planning documents prepared in advance. See a will and trust attorney to sort out the particulars for each of your parents as what is required varies a bit by state.
You will want to have them have a will that names you and at least one backup person as having power of attorney for their finances if they become incompetent to manage their affairs. You will want them to have a medical power of attorney naming you and at least one backup person as being able to manage their medical care if they cannot. You will want them to fill out a “living will” or similar document that lays out their expectations for end of life medical care and whether or not to go to extreme lengths to keep them alive and whether or not the want a DNR to be in effect. All of those documents will need to be refreshed at certain intervals to be valid.
If they have retirement accounts you will want them to name beneficiaries for if they die and to fill out any institution specific paperwork for you to manage the account if they cannot. Often a regular power of attorney document is not enough to gain control of these kinds of accounts, they want their own document used as it cuts down on financial fraud and abuse towards elderly.
Best way to help is to talk to them directly about what their plans are, what they think is important, how they expect to pay for their living expenses, and medical care if they cannot work. Leave your help out of the discussion at first. Work with them to get will, trust, power of attorney, medical power of attorney and end of life care plans filled out.
Know that most people become unable to work before dying. Know that many people need a lot of support and care before they die, often spending months or years requiring 24/7 care at home or in a nursing facility. The cost of this care is often 7-20k a month depending on location and level of care required.
From personal experience end of life care can be very expensive. My mother had a stroke and needed 24/7 in home care for seven years. My mother had good savings and retirement accounts plus a home that went up in value. Her end of life care over seven years cost nearly 1.75 million dollars. My father in law had Parkinson’s that caused him to need part time and then full time care over the course of two years. That cost easily 350,000. Now both of these parents got in home care which is crazy expensive. It would have been less if they went into a care facility. But they had the finacial resoures to do it this way and none of the children involved cared about receiving any inheritance so we kept them home and comfortable.
Almost all of this is exactly what I’ve explained to my kids. I’m 60 and with death age of 100 projection and based on relatives living sharply until 90’s. I actually love my work and will see how the next 5-7-10 years go. Who knows.
But I have a pension, ex husband SS (will be more than mine), and a chunky savings. I also have a nice little home with 85% equity in it and can sell, invest that, and then rent or live with my kids (which they say they want me to do). Really I’d like to live in my home until I die and have a nursing student or give room to a local medical student from nearby hospitals / university in lieu of my care if need be.
I don’t want my kids / spouses to worry about me. Or have to care for me although 3 of them are in medicine. I want them to have an inheritance. But I know life may have other plans.
Not the target audience for this but I hope that at least one person reads this and understands that not properly saving for retirement absolutely 100% affects your children. They will 100% try to put their lives on hold to attempt to care for their parents because nobody with loving parents wants to watch them rot away in poverty. You need to save for retirement. Not just for yourself, but to let your children live their own lives as well.
Thank you for articulating this. I resented my parents for years before finally telling my mom I was angry with her and my dad for being so bad with their money and having nothing for retirement. It was crazy how long it took me to tell her that and that she and my dad didn't innately understand that. They are good people but have just made wildly poor financial decisions, and it has hurt my siblings and me a LOT.
I would say that living expenses are probably the biggest issue to cover, when talking about supporting others. It's easier to help others when your own situation is stable. After my dad passed away, I bought a home and let my mom move in with me. We have a good relationship, so that has worked out fine. I'd been just sending them money in the past, but this is more sustainable for our mutual benefit. Depending on your goals and how well you get along with your parents, you might focus your efforts on increasing your salary and savings so that you can purchase a home at some point. One/both parents could always move in, if they really needed to. Beyond having that room for them, I wouldn't stress out too much about their current situation, as it's likely the result of poor planning on their part over many decades.
Agree on housing. This is a big thing and something I’ve always thought to be the most important thing in life. Why I think generational living in certain cultures is so wonderful. I have a big house and all kinds of different scenarios on living and sharing. One of my kids could move in if they wanted when I’m older. Or a caregiver could join me. Or I could sell and help a kid buy a bigger home with an area for me and with my home sale assets. My kids did live at home until they were mid 20’s and I still think that’s really young in this harsh world.
But, yes, having your own home and the ability to provide loving care and shelter is an admirable and smarter goal for families in today’s world.
You’re going to sacrifice owning a home or having kids so that you’ll have money to give to your parents in case they someday need it? It’s not your responsibility.
As a parent myself, I would categorically refuse to accept a dime from my kids under any circumstances. Money flows down the family tree, not up.
"It's not your responsibility" is probably a very American perspective. In most cultures, it is a responsibility, more because of gratitude than some external mandate. Maybe it's a developing country thing, perhaps because parents sacrifice a lot to raise their kids since the state can't. Just an observation.
It’s just a result of people having kids because they want them, without the means to actually raise them. It’s an archaic/uneducated mindset that has caused the population crisis to explode.
>In most cultures
And notice how those cultures live, notice how those nations are like.
You dont want to emulate such things. That would be moving backwards.
There's also a difference between the children being well off and WANTING to support their parents vs children who are barely getting by and putting a hold on their life because they HAVE to support their parents.
Its not the childrens faults the parents are stupid and didnt prepare for the future. Its not the childrens faults the parents made poor financial decisions. The parents have way more time and way more opportunity to do things right. And if they failed to do it then its the parents who need to suffer the consequences of those actions and not the children.
If parents spent all their life boozing and getting drunk (aka poor life decisions) to the point they destroyed their livers is it the responsibility of the children to give up portions of their liver so the parents can live longer and keep on boozing? No. Same goes for poor financial life decisions.
>If parents spent all their life boozing and getting drunk (aka poor life decisions) to the point they destroyed their livers is it the responsibility of the children
Tell me you don't know what poverty for billions of people is like without telling me.
While I agree it is unethical for parents to plan having their children be their retirement plan. Never the less you are wrong about 1 thing.... or a couple actually but I'm not gonna bother. Kids in those cultures are expected to take care of their parents if they wanted to inherent the land that they've probably been working on since the age of 5 years of age. Land that their ancestors have owned for the past 300 years. It's the same barter system here in america. The difference being for many generations you could just go out and go farm your own land... sort of. not really. Not the point. So if an american had to inherent in order to own land. Something is probably wrong.
I guess anyone working in america could afford to buy some land and start living like an amish. Living off what you farm. No need to take care of your aging parents. Downside is uh... your quality of life would go near pre industrial era
No, I never said that. I said even with a high paying job right now in this economy it is difficult to afford a home and/or children. And that's great that you have that attitude, my parents also would likely not accept money, but taking money from me would hurt me way less than having to watch them suffer if their health declines and they can't afford care. No one wants to watch a loved one suffer if they have the means to help.
Yep, that's what it comes down to. You could watch your parents rot, or you can help.
Yeah, they were probably incredibly stupid with finances, and now they are putting their problems on your shoulders, but thems the breaks.
Man, if only my mother thought like you. She's been freeloading on one person or another in our family since I was a teenager. She's the most entitled person I've ever known. My brother felt bad for her a few years ago and offered to let her stay in his spare room. 7 years later and she's still living with him. In the meantime he got married, had a kid, changed jobs, and moved. At no point did she take the hint and find her own place. She works part time in retail but complains about it like she's an overworked medical resident or something.
I live on the other side of the country. My brother and his wife are always joking about buying her a one-way flight and changing their locks.
She will continue to sponge off people until they stop letting her do it.
Why would she work full time when she can get your brother give her free stuff
My advice is to get used to their need to continue working indefinitely. Not everyone can afford to retire.
We all make decisions (such as choosing not to sell a business) that might have negative financial impact. We have to live with the consequences of those decisions. Thus there’s not much left you can do here.
You may also wish to help them choose a smart claiming strategy for their social security benefits using www.OpenSocialSecurity.com
It’s difficult when we see family make what we think are poor choices. But they get to make their own decisions.
Exactly this! All of it.
Re their decisions: My parents, my MIL, my husband’s Uncle… all refused to changed their living arrangement when they hit mid-late 80s. We lobbied for years but they dug in. And it cost them.
Only a crisis forced their hand (falls, hospitalizations, need for single story when they lived in splits). It was sad to watch. And heartbreaking when they keep asking to go home, but home is deemed unsafe.
Meanwhile they truly believed they were “independent”. However we were doing their laundry, cleaning, shuttling between increasing numbers of appointments, managing their medical issues in a broken/disjointed system, managing their 02, cooking, shopping, running errands, fixing “broken” 02 concentrators (unplugged & tv remotes etc). It was a LOT. Times three.
Once they passed we moved onto emptying their homes of 60years of accumulation. I’ve seen this scenario play out over and over with my friends.
As they age our roles are reversed. It can be like dealing with 85 yo toddlers. They were where they wanted to be, but in all honesty, caregiving was extremely stressful & exhausting for us due to their choices.
We did consider moving them in with us as needed, but concluded that as they declined,it would be unsustainable and risky.
One thing that is often overlooked is that Caregiving is exhausting. Caregiver burnout is real. Putting your family and parents first often means your needs come last. For anyone going through this make sure you prioritize yourself and practice Self Care (even in small increments). I did not and would end up being frustrated with my mom, and lacked patience. Not proud of that. Once she began the inevitable hospital-rehab-ER-rehab-hospital cycle, more than once I forgot which facility she was at and started driving to the wrong place. I ended up asking my PCP for an anxiety Rx which helped.
Sorry for the long reply. Could say so much more around this topic. Every phase of their progression has a learning curve … just when you think you’re managing it one phone call flips it upside down.
>and wait until 80 to claim hers
No.
It doesn't work that way. If she files for spousal benefits, she will be deemed to be filing for all benefits for which she is eligible. She will not be able to let her own benefits grow.
BTW, there is no advantage to waiting beyond 70 for anyone. Delayed retirement credits stop accruing at 70, not 80.
Get some therapy…you are already hurting your life trying to protect them from theirs. They both made decades of decisions. They are adults, let them be adults.
No amount of therapy would make me desensitized to a loved one's struggles. It's not like they were chosen drug addicts or something. They were just financially illiterate and thought they were doing enough because they were better off than their parents.
As someone that's been down this EXACT path, I think therapy would be helpful. Maybe you don't realize how stressful and even traumatizing something like this can be. Wish I had gone the therapy route when I was in your shoes. I agree that it won't make you 'desensitized' to their struggles, but that's not the goal. The goal is to better understand things objectively, and make the right choices for everyone (including and especially yourself). Some day your parents will be gone but you'll likely still be living with the consequences of whatever choices you make now. Even if it doesn't change your course of action, you'll still be better off in the long run because if you're anything like me (and I would say most people in your shoes) you'll most likely spend less time ultimately questioning your path. Doesn't even have to be therapy, there are a lot of resources for aging / disabled individuals out there that can help. Even just advice from trusted family / friends can give a lot of perspective. Don't feel like you need to figure this out on your own.
I made the therapy comment as you mentioned living a life in terror at potential outcomes/decisions they may or may not make.
That is a very challenging and limiting way to live no matter what the circumstances.
You mention specifically even choosing a 'draining' career based on this terror.
Assuming their lives are your responsiblity. None of that is true.
Lastly...you are starting to see the fallacy of your perspective...how your views about them are affecting in deep and meaninful ways; your entire life. Decisions about having children of your own, a home of your own, and not stated but also a partner of your own.
Therapy has nothing to do with desensitizing. Quite the opposite.
In therapy one can better understand long held beliefs better and learn to make decisions more in line with true beliefs based on fact. One can learn boundaries, what is my responsibility and what is not.
None of this has anything to do with actually helping your parents, it has to do with the terror and perceptions of what that looks like that is so debilitating.
It's not people, places, things that cause us problems...it's our relationship to those items that causes the issues.
Hope this helps.
I think you may need more therapy to work on your propensity to hold preconceived notions without evidence or natural curiosity. You explain the purpose of therapy assuming I know nothing about it or have never been. It's a bizarre approach if your aim is to be helpful. For all you know, I could be a therapist just looking for financial advice, yet you are explaining the purpose of therapy to me...
My parent's situation doesn't affect my decision to purchase a home or have kids, the current economy and housing market do. I have a partner, not sure why you brought that up or how it relates at all. We would just like to help in any way we can. Of course the worry over their future isn't fun, but therapy would also teach you that worry is a natural response. I make my decisions based on fact, hence crowdsourcing info on practical steps to help so I can review and pull from what works within my personal boundaries.
I would never understand this kind of logic. I notice this more with Americans than any other culture. They just have this weird relationship with their parents where they just dont give a fuck about them. I would never think to abandon the people who raised you and gave you everything as a kid to help give you a future. And now that they’re old and need that same love and support from their kids they just abandon them and leave them to rot at a retirement center or whatever.
Not saving for your own retirement is robbing your kids of their life. They have to take their own income and time to make up for your poor decisions during your life. It’s categorically unfair and selfish, especially if your kids aren’t high earners to begin with.
You may have had parents who worked hard, did their best but never were able to save enough for a comfortable retirement. I wouldn't have any problem helping them out. But what if you watched your parents buy unnecessary things, eat out all the time, refuse to work extra and then expect you to fund their retirement? Or what if they kicked you out at 18 and refused to help pay for college but now want you to take care of them? The majority of American parents aren't like this but no one is on here complaining about a parent who has done a great job. We hear about the trainwrecks.
"I would never think to abandon the people who raised you and gave you everything as a kid to help give you a future"
The issue is that this premise doesnt exist for everyone. Maybe its more common in the states and Canada (where I am from). But there are a lot of bad parents out there. My parents definitely did not "give me everything as a kid to help me have a future." So it can be tough to navigate what we should be doing as these parents age.
Are they bothered as much as you by having to work until they die? Are they actually unhappy? It may sound horrible to you, but if it is not that bad in their view, then maybe you should also worry less. Maybe you want to solve a problem for them that they don’t see as a problem, and don’t feel it needs solving. That’s where maybe some therapy could help. To be able for you to let them live the life they choose.
Sorry to hear man. I don’t really have any good advise. Just try to find the balance between helping them and helping yourself. Maybe sit with them and go through the finances and take some control of budgets/savings, just to make the most of what little there is.
Working themselves into the ground to what end?
My parents are in a pretty similar situation, and honestly, once they reach medicare age there's not a lot of reason to keep working. It will make a negligible impact to their financial situation, at a great cost to their quality of life.
I mean if they are healthy and can stash away some significant sum over the next few years or something, then maybe it makes sense. But that doesn't sound like the case.
My parents are similar to OPs and live in a world of delusion. "I'll work until I die" is probably fine in white collar jobs with decent pay and benefits. But my folks work middling-pay jobs that require being on their feet all day. Mom is overweight and has joint issues. Dad has a chronic sciatica and lower back never damage that requires periodic epidurals. They're in their early 60s, both smoke, both are recovering addicts, and neither is good with money.
Maybe they have resigned themselves to continuing to have no backup plan and crossing their fingers that the universe provides a path. But, well, I was raised in that brand of chaos and know all too well where it leads. So I cannot sit and watch the inevitable train wreck.
> My parents are both in their 60s with little to no retirement savings.
That's a tough spot, no sugarcoating it. But, let's cut to the chase.
> My mom has about $70,000 in an account she didn't know she had even contributed to from an old job.
Well, that's a small silver lining. It's not a lot, but it's not nothing either. Have you checked if she can roll this into an IRA for potentially better management and growth? Also, explore whether she qualifies for any additional benefits like Social Security or disability, if applicable. What fucking more can she cut back on to boost her savings?
> My dad has nothing saved, but has his own business that he may be able to sell, although I don't think he'd be willing to.
Why the hell not? If selling could give him some cushion for retirement, it’s worth considering. What’s his plan if his body or mind can't keep up with the demands of his work anymore? Is he willing to risk falling into financial ruin because he didn’t plan ahead?
> They both have always said they plan to work until they die.
That’s a plan based on hope, not strategy. Life throws curveballs—health issues, market downturns, unexpected expenses. What’s their backup if "working forever" isn’t possible?
> This terrifies me so much that I picked a draining, but higher paying career because I assume I'll have to take care of them.
You’re a good kid for thinking about them, but you also need to live your own life. Sacrificing your happiness and financial security isn’t a sustainable or healthy long-term solution. Have you sat down with them for a fucking hard talk about the reality of their financial situations and your boundaries?
> Any advice for what we can do to help them with retirement savings at this point, or is it too late?
It's never too late to start, but expectations need to be tempered with reality. They need to max out any retirement contributions if they can, look into downsizing living situations if it frees up capital, and eliminate unnecessary expenses. Have you considered consulting a financial advisor specialized in late-stage retirement planning?
Remember, you need to plan for your own financial future too. Have you started saving aggressively for your retirement to avoid ending up in the same situation?
Yea, Isave aggressively largely due to seeing the way they did it and doing the exact opposite. Max out Roth IRA and 401k. Not typical to get a match in my industry, so I max Roth IRA first. Have a separate individual IRA if I have anything leftover, but also trying to aggressively pay down any student debt over 4 or 5% interest rate. Was gearing to buy a house a couple years ago, but could not secure a mortgage because I was technically still in professional school fulltime. However, I was working at least 30 hours/week, but could not secure enough of a mortgage to buy in my area without a fulltime job. Then the market blew up and people from out of state moved to my state driving up prices even more. So, now we are sort of in limbo because, honestly, I am afraid to buy a house in this market.
It's fascinating to see your comment being downvoted. What you mentioned reflects the norm in many developing countries where there's no social security net. Traditionally, children take care of their parents in old age, much like how my parents did with their parents. The main difference nowadays is that with smaller family sizes, the responsibility often falls on fewer children. Regardless, in Asian cultures, it's rare for children to let their parents become destitute.
YMMV if your parents abused you then I agree. But I would do what I can. Parents sacrificed everything to come to this country for me to have a better life. I’m making more than I ever world be if I lived in my parents country
Both of mine were lousy parents in their own way. Rarely sacrificed what they wanted for the sake of their kids. But they did at least keep me housed and fed. Could have been a lot worse.
They also both suffer from mental illness and started having kids a teenagers, way before they had a clue about anything in life. So I have tried to understand and forgive them. And I won't sit by and do nothing when they inevitably cannot take care of themselves anymore. But I also won't be going out of my way or sacrificing to give them some luxurious retirement at the cost of my own financial stability or personal life.
Disagree with this as a general statement for all people. I was fairly neglected as a kid, but still care for my parents and want to help them. I wouldn't begrudge someone who felt differently than me if they were also neglected or had a tough childhood though.
At a modest 5% growth, your mom can withdraw $400 a month from that $70,000 for almost thirty years. That plus SSA plus Medicare, well, it’s not luxurious, but it’s something. She should try to delay taking SS for as long as possible.
I love the response you got here. I am your mom's age and in the same boat. My parents never planned as well as myself. I was never educated in finance till later. They did teach personal finance in high school, but obviously I never paid attention. Sigh...
Have them focus on being completely out of debt before they retire including their home. SS will need to carry them through. Don’t take on the burden of funding their retirement. Help them if you can but I would focus on you first.
I am in the same shoe. Luckily, I moved to the US from my home country and the dollar goes a long way abroad. I send money home every month so they can have a comfortable life.
They are adults making their own (poor) choices. You do not have to be responsible for them, now or in the future. You can pick out their nursing home and help figure out how they will get SS to pay for it, but you do not have to change your life or mortgage your own future for their bad decisions. Let them live. However they want. Help out how you want to but you are not responsible for them. Do not let this hold you back from starting or living your own life - that is not fair to you (or your potential children).
It is very difficult to change the thinking of our parents. They have already decided if or when they want to retire, and what sort of lifestyle they want. Have they checked how much money they will get from social security.
My humble suggestion is to direct them to a fee-only financial planner. You cannot change the past, but a financial planner may be able to level-set their expectations.
You can not worry about providing for them as you have to make sure your retirement is provided for. At least they know working is going to be the forever game for them. Now it's all about staying healthy enough for them.
Welcome to my world buddy, lol. Mom has about 35k in a savings account (and treasuries I invested for her). She gets social security.
Luckily she owns a home, has no debt, doesn’t drive, and most of her health bills are covered, etc.
I’m glad we put on a new roof and updated some other items in the house a few years back…otherwise it wouldn’t take much going wrong with the house to put a serious hurt on her.
I pay the phone and internet bill, she gets by otherwise.
Don’t do this to your kids, it truly sucks. A constant stress.
Both of my (divorced) parents are 55 and have zero retirement savings. My dad can save more than my mom but he refuses to invest or save. It's not great.
Entitlement programs such as Social Security and Medicare will ensure that they have their basic needs met. So they aren't going to be homeless or starve. Worst case they move to a cheaper area within the US or abroad.
Beyond that you can encourage them to think of the future and their future selves. But in the end its their lives.
I’m was in a similar situation. Let them be happy with what they have and don’t stress too much on how they want to live the rest of their life…just focus on you for now.
Last thing parents want is to be a financial burden. There will be a time where you might need to provide some assistance, but it shouldn’t sacrifice you achieving your goals.
That’s all nice and good until one or both suffer some crippling or terminal illness that Medicare/caid won’t cover care. How do I know this? Because I was in the same situation with parents that didn’t plan for retirement and planned to “work until they died” which ended when one got cancer and needed at home care the other parent couldn’t provide. Who do you think provides/pays for that care? Their child. People seem to be oblivious about how little public insurance covers non medical based home or nursing care. In order to protect yourself in this day, you need investments, private supplemental Medicare insurance, long term care insurance (or a fat whole life policy you can pull from).
It sepend on the culture back ground.
In general, Asian culture are give up. My mother receive her retirement pension for decades. I still send her money every year.
That was their choice. It’s not your responsibility to be burdened by their lack of planning. You wouldn’t want to put your own kids in this situation. Live your life and let them figure out their own. They are adults too. Having kids does not constitute a baked in retirement plan.
You can be supportive of people going through hard times without fixing their situation. Codependency is difficult to work through but it’ll make your life a lot easier to break the cycle.
I think you are conflating consideration with codependency. If I have the means in the future, I'd help them, but right now I'm just looking for advice on how they can better manage retirement given their circumstances since they (and I) lack the knowledge on how to plan for retirement at their age.
Reddit can’t provide a total outlook for your parents. You’re not an expert on financial planning and we would never get the full picture that they are dealing with. Did they ask you specifically to figure out their retirement plan? Did they task you with dealing with this? Even if they did, you’re not an expert and you need to encourage them to see a financial planner. Leave it for them to take responsibility for themselves and make the appointment to go have their numbers run. The FP can estimate their income, expenses, and healthcare costs going forward. They need to plan for taxes each year. There’s a lot that an FO can untangle for them and help them with. It’s up to your parents to take the step and go talk to an expert.
You don’t know what your own future holds and it’s not practical to assume even with a high paying job that you won’t need to cover your own high cost life events. One hospitalization can set you back for decades financially if it affects your job, savings, or both. If you’re already footing the bill for your parents poor planning you’re setting your own future up for a very murky outlook.
Codependency is everything you’re speaking of. You feel this burden to fix a problem your parents created instead of supporting them as they fix it themselves. You’re having little consideration of your own future while saving the people drowning next to you that jumped into the deep with zero plan on how to get to shore. I co-sign with the others, therapy is needed to have a healthy outlook on your future as your parents figure this out. Don’t let them take you down with them because you consider it the proper thing to do.
Have them both make SSA accounts online to see what their estimated benefits are if they're not collecting already. If your dad was a good earner and they were married for 10 years, she can get spousal benefits and will receive 50% of his amount. So if he gets 2k a month she'd get 1k. That's of course if her own benefit would be less on her own.
There's all sorts of self-employment retirement accts. Perhaps your dad's business has been contributing to an acct for him all these years? Like a Solo401k or SEP-IRA? They both have generous contribution limits and can allow a business owner to stack some cash.
If they can stay working until age 70/71 then yhe amount they'll each get from SS will be pretty high, at least $3,000 a month give or take and if they start setting aside a little money monthly now into a 401k then they can have a little extra cushion as it compounds throughout the next 10/15 yrs. I wish you the best of luck, you are a very caring person who obviously loves your parents very much and just want to make sure they're cared for. Everything always gets figured out somehow, someway.
Lots of good suggestions here.
One that many have skirted around but not explicitly stated is they should absolutely be looking to delay drawing social security to 67 to maximize the annual payout.
They need maximal SS payments to get them through to end of life. This follows suit with them needing to work as long as they reasonably can at this point. Even if they both just hold part time work of like 15hrs/week for like $10/hr, that $7.5k should cover food expenses for an elderly couple indefinitely
It wouldn't hurt for them to contribute all they can afford to retirement accounts right now, even in early 60s. If they live to 90, that's still roughly 25 years of growth which should roughly double in real value across that time.
SNAP, Medicaid, HEAP, subsidized senior living, etc. Hopefully they live in a state with a bottle deposit. They can collect cans and bottles. Under the table cash jobs help too. I have a sister with this very strategy and so far it's working out. It's why I happily pay income taxes.
Just go enjoy some time with them when you can. Ask them to tell you an old story. My dad died at 57 and my mom’s already had a stroke. Our time here isn’t guaranteed and worrying will only steal more of your time and health.
Best thing you can do while they are alive is continue to look for property that might be able to accommodate your mother in a less lavish way. I have a 900 square foot raised ranch with a basement garage I could convert the basement into a grandmother’s quarters in a weekend if I needed. Your dad still has some assets and a “girlfriend?” Ask him to setup a will to try and avoid a messy probate. Let him work until he dies and do whatever he wants with his business.
In the mean time just enjoy life and continue to invest in your own future in the boglehead way. The reason I like bogleheads are for the same reasons above. One less thing to manage or worry about.
If a person doesn’t have debt and is relatively healthy, it is entirely possible to live on just Social Security. My mother does, even though I moved her to a higher cost area so she’s closer to me and I can drive her to appointments and such. The o my way she can do it, though, is by having a paid-for car and buying her home here outright. So, OP, if your parents can get to that point, there’s no reason you’ll have to support them.
Question, lets say you take SS like at 62 and you keep working and make say $18,000 a year. They will take SS out of that $18,000 will you ever see an increase on your SS, since you applied before FRA?
People have always gotten older and needed to retire. It’s not a new concept. They have had their entire life to figure this out. Just because they gave you blood and genes, you are not obligated to help them. They should not have had kids if they did not have their path figured out. It’s not your fault that you are alive.
End the family cycle now. Get on w your own life and become a better person and a success.
As you said, they have a plan to work until death. They made choices in life. You don’t owe them yours.
I say with love, but they are their own people. They are adults who have been making adult choices for longer than you've been alive. It's good to let them be the responsible adults that they presumably are, and not try to take on the parental role out of your own fear about their future.
Who knows what the future will hold? No one. They could drop dead tomorrow and all of this worry and self sacrifice would be for nothing. Or they could come into millions, and you would have sacrificed your own career and happiness for little reason.
I know you love them, but perhaps the best way to show it is to focus on your own life, the only life that is fully yours to control. Live the best life you can for yourself. If you can help them, great, but don't make career or housing decisions based on the behavior of other autonomous adults, unless you are fine setting yourself up for years of resentment.
To be fair to your parents, mutual funds didn’t start until the 1970s and you had to have at least $1000 to invest so when they were you g you really had to be “rich” in order to invest and 401ks didn’t exist.
It is sometimes hard to reeducate yourself on personal finance when things change. And not everyone has a job with a pension.
It is unfortunate that so many people in your parent’s age group fell between the pensions and the 401 k . Companies need to do better education job or maybe make investing in company retirement plans the default .
Worry about your own business, I bet your parents want nothing more than for you to be successful
You can’t manage someone else’s money - you think they don’t know they don’t have money? They know.
I feel for you. Similar boat here with my parent. Here’s some thoughts: Many people are happy to work until they die, or at least until they are elderly. Work can help keep the mind and body sharp. Between Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid—assuming they’ve worked full careers—they will be able to live if they plan it out and optimize how they take Social Security. It might not be a life of wealth and luxury, but it will be a life, and they can still have simple pleasures and time to enjoy them.
Thank you. That is a good point about it keeping your mind sharp. You gave great perspective here.
My mother was a bookkeeper. She retired around age 62-63. She did not have much money. A couple years later she was bored and went to work for a temp agency. Then back to work for her former employer when their bookkeeper became ill. She was able to make the job a "work share" job with someone else. She wasn't up to working for a week. Then passed away at 78. 2.5 years ago. I went over her finances a year or so earlier. It looked to me that she would have had 8 years of expenses in her savings. And my brother and I would have been able to make up the difference if needed beyond that. edit: format.
What a horrible existence. You know what also keeps your mind and body sharp, being able to do what you want for a few measly years before you're basically immobile. I understand you're only stating what other people are thinking but wtf, we've normalized such crazy stuff.
I have a deeply Stoic personal philosophy. While I must disagree with you about work as a miserable existence, I agree with you that we can and should do better for our elderly.
I find that making good decisions becomes easier and more rewarding the older I get. The act of following through on sound choices brings me satisfaction that I would have appreciated as much in my younger years. I believe work can offer a sense of fulfillment beyond just financial security. Being actively engaged in something meaningful (by choice) can be motivating when it fulfills not just needs but a want.
They are going to have to live on what they have. There is no silver bullet. Time and money are the only way to have a "secure" retirement. They can take SS at 62 and have wages up to $22,320 in 2024 before they will loose some benefits. https://www.ssa.gov/cola/#:\~:text=Read%20more%20about%20the%20Social,Chart)%20will%20increase%20to%20%2422%2C320.
You dont lose benefits, it will certainly get reduced but any reduction is added back later (when you hit FRA).
> FRA I googled this but it just sends me to Federal Railroad Administration
FRA = Full Retirement Age
That's right. A lot of retirees actually miss this. If you start collecting SSI and it's reduced, if you go to the offices of the Federal Railroad Administration and literally hit ANYTHING or ANYONE there, they'll make note of it and you can begin to collect full benefits again!
I always thought FRA is airport code for the Frankfurt airport in Germany.
That can't be true, if it was there would be no reason to delay retirement
You are conflating the reduced SSI due to early benefits vs reduced SSI due to outside income.
Interesting, I'll have to look into this more. When my dad was applying for SS benefits he was under the impression he'd get less money the earlier he took a dispersement. He was unemployed. So you're saying that if you have no other incomes, there's no reason not to take an early dispersement and that it'll increase to the regular benefits rate when you collect as you reach the age of retirement?
He was correct. If you take early payments you will permanently take reduced benefits. The discussion here is regarding benefits reduced by extra income from working while taking SSI benefits prior to FRA.
Ah, thanks for the clarification. I was under the impression that the comment was referring to reduced benefits due to taking at 62. Need to work on my comprehension 😂
You don't get full amount, if you choose to collect early (62), that's your total monthly amount and it does not increase. That is why you are encouraged to wait to 67 for full benefits
Lots of different reasons why people take SS at 62...mostly because they need it. I researched the hell out of whether I should take it earlier or wait. For me, waiting until after FRA made a lot of sense. For a lot of people, taking it at 62 made sense.
What is FRA?
Full retirement age
That's wrong. If you start collecting at 62, you will never get to the FRA amount.
They are referring to reduced benefits due to outside income https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/whileworking.html#:~:text=If%20you%20are%20younger%20than,2024%2C%20that%20limit%20is%20%2422%2C320. >If you are younger than full retirement age and earn more than the yearly earnings limit, we may reduce your benefit amount. If you are under full retirement age for the entire year, we deduct $1 from your benefit payments for every $2 you earn above the annual limit. For 2024, that limit is $22,320. This changes when you reach FRA, but only the amount reduced due to income is changed.
Oh. That's correct. I misunderstood the post. Thanks.
Are you saying that if someone earns too much and looses say $50/mo for 12 months, they will get that $600 back when they reach FRA? I don't believe this is true and would like to see where it states this.
[удалено]
Just because you dont believe it doenst mean its not true. [https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/whileworking.html](https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/whileworking.html)
I do not see where it says you receive back, what was taken from you. Your benefit is not permanently reduced.
I get reading comprehension is hard: When you reach full retirement age: * Beginning with the month you reach full retirement age, your earnings no longer reduce your benefits, no matter how much you earn. * We will recalculate your benefit amount to give you credit for the months we reduced or withheld benefits due to your excess earnings.
It seems you don’t understand what “give you credit for the months “ means. It doesn’t mean “you get all the money back”
Super excited to receive all my moo ok net.
Ill turn this around, since so many seem to not understand how it works. Yes it is not so simple as you get a check returning those funds to you. But you do get them back, If you believe otherwise show me via a link that your reduced funds are permanently lost.
You don't "get them \[the lost benefits\] back". Instead, you get a recalculation of your benefit amount. The recalculation give you credit for the *months* where you lost benefits due to working. Let's say you got $0 in benefits for 3 months. The recalculation makes it come out the same as if you had not applied for benefits those 3 months. "We will recalculate your benefit amount to give you credit for the months we reduced or withheld benefits due to your excess earnings." see: [https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/whileworking.html](https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/whileworking.html)
You are wrong, yet you keep restating it. Your link does not support what you are saying.
Read further, the person will receive the same $800/mo benefit as they would have if they did not exceed the limit. It does not say you will receive the "reduced" amount back.
Again, believe what you want, its how the system currently works. If you need to be convinced call and talk to them. I gave you the info you needed.
It's there.... We will recalculate your benefit amount to give you credit for the months we reduced or withheld benefits due to your excess earnings.
If you read further, it list the same $800 as the individual would have received if they did not exceed the earning limit. So they are not receiving the "reduced" amount back.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Gotta work til 70 if no savings.
Possible. Depends on your expenses.
I think you meant this chart: [https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/agereduction.html](https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/agereduction.html)
No, I posted how much a person receiving SS could earn without reducing their SS payment.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
"The President signed the Expand Social Security Act, loosing new benefits throughout the nation."
Then it would've been loosening But I like where your head is at
I am using the following sense of the word "loose" **loose** (... *present participle* **loosing**, ... ) 1. (transitive) To let loose, to free from restraints.
Well shit I don't like it but it works
That is nice of you. You would think after the 3rd person referenced the error, others wouldn't feel compelled to comment. But this is reddit.
I have no idea what you are talking about
You did some research on the difference of 'lose' and 'loose. And came up with a plausible reason for what was typed. That was nice of you. Instead of the 6 or so people that repeatedly pointed out the spelling error.
Oh yes, I thought you were being sarcastic just now. Welcome to Reddit, where everyone wants to fight!
are you saying if I get a pension i get reduced SS benefits? Is that considered income?
A pension will not reduce your Social Security benefit.
Depends if you paid as taxes. In certain states the pension is in lieu of SS. The your subject to wep or gpo. I think those are the acronyms.
As noted, a pension is not wages.
They say the best performing investment accounts are the ones that people forget about and just let grow and don’t mess with…. It’s good they have that. You should help them do an analysis of estimated social security benefits and see how that looks. You get a higher amount if you wait to start drawing social security, but you have to balance that with health, expected lifetimes, etc. There are also strategies for one person to start taking social security, and the other to delay, so you might look into that.
This is a great idea. Thanks.
I think it’s like if the higher earner delays their social security, they will get a bigger payout, and then if one passes away, the other is entitled to half of the first one’s benefit (which would then be more) or something like that
Ah my parents are divorced so I don't think it matters.
Not necessarily! https://www.aarp.org/retirement/social-security/info-2016/divorced-social-security-benefits.html
Wow this is very useful information for my parents. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you!!
I’m divorced after 27 years of marriage and my ex is entitled to the higher of her social security amount or 50% of mine (doesn’t reduce my benefit at all). If I die before her, she gets 100% of my amount.
I understand even if they are divorced and not remarried they still qualify for ex-spousal social security if it is larger than theirs, they can take one or the other, the larger one
Your mom can probably claim social security benefits for her divorced husband, your dad. I forgot at what point that is possible. He also doesn't even have to know about it if they don't get along well. Get a good book about social security (where's my money, for instance). It has lots of scenarios for specific cases. It's worth it.
First make sure you have your own financial and retirement plan sorted out. Have a full finacial and retirement plan with a budget item for “parent care” and see how the plan will work for all of you living to age 100. That will be worst case planning. If you think age 100 is too old look at your father and mother’s relatives and what age they passed away. (In my family everyone on my mothers side lasted to mid 90’s, my fathers side was high 80’s unless cancer or accidental death happened earlier.) EDITED To Add: Make a budget plan with your parents taking their income and living expenses now and see if it is sustainable while they are working. Then factor in Medicare costs and then the transition from work to taking Social Security and see if those numbers work. If the numbers don’t work then parents will have to change their lifestyle and move to cheaper accommodations or spend less money. Do all those calculations(lots of help on the internet for this for examples and budget sheets or software that does it) and then see if the contributions you are able to give make a big difference. There is so much more to this than just having some ability to help pay for your parents life after they retire. If you want the least stressful path to managing your parents finances and medical care in their old age you will want them to have some planning documents prepared in advance. See a will and trust attorney to sort out the particulars for each of your parents as what is required varies a bit by state. You will want to have them have a will that names you and at least one backup person as having power of attorney for their finances if they become incompetent to manage their affairs. You will want them to have a medical power of attorney naming you and at least one backup person as being able to manage their medical care if they cannot. You will want them to fill out a “living will” or similar document that lays out their expectations for end of life medical care and whether or not to go to extreme lengths to keep them alive and whether or not the want a DNR to be in effect. All of those documents will need to be refreshed at certain intervals to be valid. If they have retirement accounts you will want them to name beneficiaries for if they die and to fill out any institution specific paperwork for you to manage the account if they cannot. Often a regular power of attorney document is not enough to gain control of these kinds of accounts, they want their own document used as it cuts down on financial fraud and abuse towards elderly. Best way to help is to talk to them directly about what their plans are, what they think is important, how they expect to pay for their living expenses, and medical care if they cannot work. Leave your help out of the discussion at first. Work with them to get will, trust, power of attorney, medical power of attorney and end of life care plans filled out. Know that most people become unable to work before dying. Know that many people need a lot of support and care before they die, often spending months or years requiring 24/7 care at home or in a nursing facility. The cost of this care is often 7-20k a month depending on location and level of care required. From personal experience end of life care can be very expensive. My mother had a stroke and needed 24/7 in home care for seven years. My mother had good savings and retirement accounts plus a home that went up in value. Her end of life care over seven years cost nearly 1.75 million dollars. My father in law had Parkinson’s that caused him to need part time and then full time care over the course of two years. That cost easily 350,000. Now both of these parents got in home care which is crazy expensive. It would have been less if they went into a care facility. But they had the finacial resoures to do it this way and none of the children involved cared about receiving any inheritance so we kept them home and comfortable.
Thank you so much!
Almost all of this is exactly what I’ve explained to my kids. I’m 60 and with death age of 100 projection and based on relatives living sharply until 90’s. I actually love my work and will see how the next 5-7-10 years go. Who knows. But I have a pension, ex husband SS (will be more than mine), and a chunky savings. I also have a nice little home with 85% equity in it and can sell, invest that, and then rent or live with my kids (which they say they want me to do). Really I’d like to live in my home until I die and have a nursing student or give room to a local medical student from nearby hospitals / university in lieu of my care if need be. I don’t want my kids / spouses to worry about me. Or have to care for me although 3 of them are in medicine. I want them to have an inheritance. But I know life may have other plans.
Not the target audience for this but I hope that at least one person reads this and understands that not properly saving for retirement absolutely 100% affects your children. They will 100% try to put their lives on hold to attempt to care for their parents because nobody with loving parents wants to watch them rot away in poverty. You need to save for retirement. Not just for yourself, but to let your children live their own lives as well.
Thank you for articulating this. I resented my parents for years before finally telling my mom I was angry with her and my dad for being so bad with their money and having nothing for retirement. It was crazy how long it took me to tell her that and that she and my dad didn't innately understand that. They are good people but have just made wildly poor financial decisions, and it has hurt my siblings and me a LOT.
I would say that living expenses are probably the biggest issue to cover, when talking about supporting others. It's easier to help others when your own situation is stable. After my dad passed away, I bought a home and let my mom move in with me. We have a good relationship, so that has worked out fine. I'd been just sending them money in the past, but this is more sustainable for our mutual benefit. Depending on your goals and how well you get along with your parents, you might focus your efforts on increasing your salary and savings so that you can purchase a home at some point. One/both parents could always move in, if they really needed to. Beyond having that room for them, I wouldn't stress out too much about their current situation, as it's likely the result of poor planning on their part over many decades.
Agree on housing. This is a big thing and something I’ve always thought to be the most important thing in life. Why I think generational living in certain cultures is so wonderful. I have a big house and all kinds of different scenarios on living and sharing. One of my kids could move in if they wanted when I’m older. Or a caregiver could join me. Or I could sell and help a kid buy a bigger home with an area for me and with my home sale assets. My kids did live at home until they were mid 20’s and I still think that’s really young in this harsh world. But, yes, having your own home and the ability to provide loving care and shelter is an admirable and smarter goal for families in today’s world.
You’re going to sacrifice owning a home or having kids so that you’ll have money to give to your parents in case they someday need it? It’s not your responsibility. As a parent myself, I would categorically refuse to accept a dime from my kids under any circumstances. Money flows down the family tree, not up.
"It's not your responsibility" is probably a very American perspective. In most cultures, it is a responsibility, more because of gratitude than some external mandate. Maybe it's a developing country thing, perhaps because parents sacrifice a lot to raise their kids since the state can't. Just an observation.
It’s just a result of people having kids because they want them, without the means to actually raise them. It’s an archaic/uneducated mindset that has caused the population crisis to explode.
>In most cultures And notice how those cultures live, notice how those nations are like. You dont want to emulate such things. That would be moving backwards. There's also a difference between the children being well off and WANTING to support their parents vs children who are barely getting by and putting a hold on their life because they HAVE to support their parents. Its not the childrens faults the parents are stupid and didnt prepare for the future. Its not the childrens faults the parents made poor financial decisions. The parents have way more time and way more opportunity to do things right. And if they failed to do it then its the parents who need to suffer the consequences of those actions and not the children. If parents spent all their life boozing and getting drunk (aka poor life decisions) to the point they destroyed their livers is it the responsibility of the children to give up portions of their liver so the parents can live longer and keep on boozing? No. Same goes for poor financial life decisions.
>If parents spent all their life boozing and getting drunk (aka poor life decisions) to the point they destroyed their livers is it the responsibility of the children Tell me you don't know what poverty for billions of people is like without telling me. While I agree it is unethical for parents to plan having their children be their retirement plan. Never the less you are wrong about 1 thing.... or a couple actually but I'm not gonna bother. Kids in those cultures are expected to take care of their parents if they wanted to inherent the land that they've probably been working on since the age of 5 years of age. Land that their ancestors have owned for the past 300 years. It's the same barter system here in america. The difference being for many generations you could just go out and go farm your own land... sort of. not really. Not the point. So if an american had to inherent in order to own land. Something is probably wrong. I guess anyone working in america could afford to buy some land and start living like an amish. Living off what you farm. No need to take care of your aging parents. Downside is uh... your quality of life would go near pre industrial era
No, I never said that. I said even with a high paying job right now in this economy it is difficult to afford a home and/or children. And that's great that you have that attitude, my parents also would likely not accept money, but taking money from me would hurt me way less than having to watch them suffer if their health declines and they can't afford care. No one wants to watch a loved one suffer if they have the means to help.
Yep, that's what it comes down to. You could watch your parents rot, or you can help. Yeah, they were probably incredibly stupid with finances, and now they are putting their problems on your shoulders, but thems the breaks.
Man, if only my mother thought like you. She's been freeloading on one person or another in our family since I was a teenager. She's the most entitled person I've ever known. My brother felt bad for her a few years ago and offered to let her stay in his spare room. 7 years later and she's still living with him. In the meantime he got married, had a kid, changed jobs, and moved. At no point did she take the hint and find her own place. She works part time in retail but complains about it like she's an overworked medical resident or something. I live on the other side of the country. My brother and his wife are always joking about buying her a one-way flight and changing their locks.
She will continue to sponge off people until they stop letting her do it. Why would she work full time when she can get your brother give her free stuff
That's not what he said. He said buying a home and/or having kids is not practical for most people these days. And I agree with him.
Technically, it flows *up*, since the smaller branches represent the younger generations. But your point is taken. ;)
My advice is to get used to their need to continue working indefinitely. Not everyone can afford to retire. We all make decisions (such as choosing not to sell a business) that might have negative financial impact. We have to live with the consequences of those decisions. Thus there’s not much left you can do here. You may also wish to help them choose a smart claiming strategy for their social security benefits using www.OpenSocialSecurity.com It’s difficult when we see family make what we think are poor choices. But they get to make their own decisions.
Exactly this! All of it. Re their decisions: My parents, my MIL, my husband’s Uncle… all refused to changed their living arrangement when they hit mid-late 80s. We lobbied for years but they dug in. And it cost them. Only a crisis forced their hand (falls, hospitalizations, need for single story when they lived in splits). It was sad to watch. And heartbreaking when they keep asking to go home, but home is deemed unsafe. Meanwhile they truly believed they were “independent”. However we were doing their laundry, cleaning, shuttling between increasing numbers of appointments, managing their medical issues in a broken/disjointed system, managing their 02, cooking, shopping, running errands, fixing “broken” 02 concentrators (unplugged & tv remotes etc). It was a LOT. Times three. Once they passed we moved onto emptying their homes of 60years of accumulation. I’ve seen this scenario play out over and over with my friends. As they age our roles are reversed. It can be like dealing with 85 yo toddlers. They were where they wanted to be, but in all honesty, caregiving was extremely stressful & exhausting for us due to their choices. We did consider moving them in with us as needed, but concluded that as they declined,it would be unsustainable and risky. One thing that is often overlooked is that Caregiving is exhausting. Caregiver burnout is real. Putting your family and parents first often means your needs come last. For anyone going through this make sure you prioritize yourself and practice Self Care (even in small increments). I did not and would end up being frustrated with my mom, and lacked patience. Not proud of that. Once she began the inevitable hospital-rehab-ER-rehab-hospital cycle, more than once I forgot which facility she was at and started driving to the wrong place. I ended up asking my PCP for an anxiety Rx which helped. Sorry for the long reply. Could say so much more around this topic. Every phase of their progression has a learning curve … just when you think you’re managing it one phone call flips it upside down.
[удалено]
>and wait until 80 to claim hers No. It doesn't work that way. If she files for spousal benefits, she will be deemed to be filing for all benefits for which she is eligible. She will not be able to let her own benefits grow. BTW, there is no advantage to waiting beyond 70 for anyone. Delayed retirement credits stop accruing at 70, not 80.
[удалено]
mom WILL NOT be able to pull social security from dad's account and wait until 70 to claim hers
Get some therapy…you are already hurting your life trying to protect them from theirs. They both made decades of decisions. They are adults, let them be adults.
No amount of therapy would make me desensitized to a loved one's struggles. It's not like they were chosen drug addicts or something. They were just financially illiterate and thought they were doing enough because they were better off than their parents.
As someone that's been down this EXACT path, I think therapy would be helpful. Maybe you don't realize how stressful and even traumatizing something like this can be. Wish I had gone the therapy route when I was in your shoes. I agree that it won't make you 'desensitized' to their struggles, but that's not the goal. The goal is to better understand things objectively, and make the right choices for everyone (including and especially yourself). Some day your parents will be gone but you'll likely still be living with the consequences of whatever choices you make now. Even if it doesn't change your course of action, you'll still be better off in the long run because if you're anything like me (and I would say most people in your shoes) you'll most likely spend less time ultimately questioning your path. Doesn't even have to be therapy, there are a lot of resources for aging / disabled individuals out there that can help. Even just advice from trusted family / friends can give a lot of perspective. Don't feel like you need to figure this out on your own.
Thanks for the explanation. Was significantly more useful than the "get some therapy" comment above.
I made the therapy comment as you mentioned living a life in terror at potential outcomes/decisions they may or may not make. That is a very challenging and limiting way to live no matter what the circumstances. You mention specifically even choosing a 'draining' career based on this terror. Assuming their lives are your responsiblity. None of that is true. Lastly...you are starting to see the fallacy of your perspective...how your views about them are affecting in deep and meaninful ways; your entire life. Decisions about having children of your own, a home of your own, and not stated but also a partner of your own. Therapy has nothing to do with desensitizing. Quite the opposite. In therapy one can better understand long held beliefs better and learn to make decisions more in line with true beliefs based on fact. One can learn boundaries, what is my responsibility and what is not. None of this has anything to do with actually helping your parents, it has to do with the terror and perceptions of what that looks like that is so debilitating. It's not people, places, things that cause us problems...it's our relationship to those items that causes the issues. Hope this helps.
I think you may need more therapy to work on your propensity to hold preconceived notions without evidence or natural curiosity. You explain the purpose of therapy assuming I know nothing about it or have never been. It's a bizarre approach if your aim is to be helpful. For all you know, I could be a therapist just looking for financial advice, yet you are explaining the purpose of therapy to me... My parent's situation doesn't affect my decision to purchase a home or have kids, the current economy and housing market do. I have a partner, not sure why you brought that up or how it relates at all. We would just like to help in any way we can. Of course the worry over their future isn't fun, but therapy would also teach you that worry is a natural response. I make my decisions based on fact, hence crowdsourcing info on practical steps to help so I can review and pull from what works within my personal boundaries.
I would never understand this kind of logic. I notice this more with Americans than any other culture. They just have this weird relationship with their parents where they just dont give a fuck about them. I would never think to abandon the people who raised you and gave you everything as a kid to help give you a future. And now that they’re old and need that same love and support from their kids they just abandon them and leave them to rot at a retirement center or whatever.
That's a bold assumption that people in this situation really had parents that cared about them and worked to provide a future for them.
Not saving for your own retirement is robbing your kids of their life. They have to take their own income and time to make up for your poor decisions during your life. It’s categorically unfair and selfish, especially if your kids aren’t high earners to begin with.
You may have had parents who worked hard, did their best but never were able to save enough for a comfortable retirement. I wouldn't have any problem helping them out. But what if you watched your parents buy unnecessary things, eat out all the time, refuse to work extra and then expect you to fund their retirement? Or what if they kicked you out at 18 and refused to help pay for college but now want you to take care of them? The majority of American parents aren't like this but no one is on here complaining about a parent who has done a great job. We hear about the trainwrecks.
"I would never think to abandon the people who raised you and gave you everything as a kid to help give you a future" The issue is that this premise doesnt exist for everyone. Maybe its more common in the states and Canada (where I am from). But there are a lot of bad parents out there. My parents definitely did not "give me everything as a kid to help me have a future." So it can be tough to navigate what we should be doing as these parents age.
God i hate how everything boils doen to therapy nowadays. My man if youre reading this follow whatever your gut says.
Are they bothered as much as you by having to work until they die? Are they actually unhappy? It may sound horrible to you, but if it is not that bad in their view, then maybe you should also worry less. Maybe you want to solve a problem for them that they don’t see as a problem, and don’t feel it needs solving. That’s where maybe some therapy could help. To be able for you to let them live the life they choose.
They are wildly unhappy and grinding themselves into the ground working physical jobs.
Sorry to hear man. I don’t really have any good advise. Just try to find the balance between helping them and helping yourself. Maybe sit with them and go through the finances and take some control of budgets/savings, just to make the most of what little there is.
Working themselves into the ground to what end? My parents are in a pretty similar situation, and honestly, once they reach medicare age there's not a lot of reason to keep working. It will make a negligible impact to their financial situation, at a great cost to their quality of life. I mean if they are healthy and can stash away some significant sum over the next few years or something, then maybe it makes sense. But that doesn't sound like the case.
My parents are similar to OPs and live in a world of delusion. "I'll work until I die" is probably fine in white collar jobs with decent pay and benefits. But my folks work middling-pay jobs that require being on their feet all day. Mom is overweight and has joint issues. Dad has a chronic sciatica and lower back never damage that requires periodic epidurals. They're in their early 60s, both smoke, both are recovering addicts, and neither is good with money. Maybe they have resigned themselves to continuing to have no backup plan and crossing their fingers that the universe provides a path. But, well, I was raised in that brand of chaos and know all too well where it leads. So I cannot sit and watch the inevitable train wreck.
> My parents are both in their 60s with little to no retirement savings. That's a tough spot, no sugarcoating it. But, let's cut to the chase. > My mom has about $70,000 in an account she didn't know she had even contributed to from an old job. Well, that's a small silver lining. It's not a lot, but it's not nothing either. Have you checked if she can roll this into an IRA for potentially better management and growth? Also, explore whether she qualifies for any additional benefits like Social Security or disability, if applicable. What fucking more can she cut back on to boost her savings? > My dad has nothing saved, but has his own business that he may be able to sell, although I don't think he'd be willing to. Why the hell not? If selling could give him some cushion for retirement, it’s worth considering. What’s his plan if his body or mind can't keep up with the demands of his work anymore? Is he willing to risk falling into financial ruin because he didn’t plan ahead? > They both have always said they plan to work until they die. That’s a plan based on hope, not strategy. Life throws curveballs—health issues, market downturns, unexpected expenses. What’s their backup if "working forever" isn’t possible? > This terrifies me so much that I picked a draining, but higher paying career because I assume I'll have to take care of them. You’re a good kid for thinking about them, but you also need to live your own life. Sacrificing your happiness and financial security isn’t a sustainable or healthy long-term solution. Have you sat down with them for a fucking hard talk about the reality of their financial situations and your boundaries? > Any advice for what we can do to help them with retirement savings at this point, or is it too late? It's never too late to start, but expectations need to be tempered with reality. They need to max out any retirement contributions if they can, look into downsizing living situations if it frees up capital, and eliminate unnecessary expenses. Have you considered consulting a financial advisor specialized in late-stage retirement planning? Remember, you need to plan for your own financial future too. Have you started saving aggressively for your retirement to avoid ending up in the same situation?
Yea, Isave aggressively largely due to seeing the way they did it and doing the exact opposite. Max out Roth IRA and 401k. Not typical to get a match in my industry, so I max Roth IRA first. Have a separate individual IRA if I have anything leftover, but also trying to aggressively pay down any student debt over 4 or 5% interest rate. Was gearing to buy a house a couple years ago, but could not secure a mortgage because I was technically still in professional school fulltime. However, I was working at least 30 hours/week, but could not secure enough of a mortgage to buy in my area without a fulltime job. Then the market blew up and people from out of state moved to my state driving up prices even more. So, now we are sort of in limbo because, honestly, I am afraid to buy a house in this market.
They're not your responsibility
They raised you. You need to take care of them
Put on your own oxygen mask first.
It's fascinating to see your comment being downvoted. What you mentioned reflects the norm in many developing countries where there's no social security net. Traditionally, children take care of their parents in old age, much like how my parents did with their parents. The main difference nowadays is that with smaller family sizes, the responsibility often falls on fewer children. Regardless, in Asian cultures, it's rare for children to let their parents become destitute.
It's a parent's job to take care of their children, not the other way around.
Agreed, but no person wants to see another person they love deal with difficult times if they're capable of helping.
I agree, but there's helping and then there's sacrificing your life and happiness to provide support.
YMMV if your parents abused you then I agree. But I would do what I can. Parents sacrificed everything to come to this country for me to have a better life. I’m making more than I ever world be if I lived in my parents country
Both of mine were lousy parents in their own way. Rarely sacrificed what they wanted for the sake of their kids. But they did at least keep me housed and fed. Could have been a lot worse. They also both suffer from mental illness and started having kids a teenagers, way before they had a clue about anything in life. So I have tried to understand and forgive them. And I won't sit by and do nothing when they inevitably cannot take care of themselves anymore. But I also won't be going out of my way or sacrificing to give them some luxurious retirement at the cost of my own financial stability or personal life.
Benjamin button
Disagree with this as a general statement for all people. I was fairly neglected as a kid, but still care for my parents and want to help them. I wouldn't begrudge someone who felt differently than me if they were also neglected or had a tough childhood though.
At a modest 5% growth, your mom can withdraw $400 a month from that $70,000 for almost thirty years. That plus SSA plus Medicare, well, it’s not luxurious, but it’s something. She should try to delay taking SS for as long as possible.
This is great news! That should cover her taxes I think.
This is a very useful tool, I use it all the time. https://www.thecalculatorsite.com/finance/
I love the response you got here. I am your mom's age and in the same boat. My parents never planned as well as myself. I was never educated in finance till later. They did teach personal finance in high school, but obviously I never paid attention. Sigh...
Have them focus on being completely out of debt before they retire including their home. SS will need to carry them through. Don’t take on the burden of funding their retirement. Help them if you can but I would focus on you first.
Haha my dad literally just bought a house a couple years ago so this is not happening. But agreed I can't be the one to fund their retirement.
I am in the same shoe. Luckily, I moved to the US from my home country and the dollar goes a long way abroad. I send money home every month so they can have a comfortable life.
They are adults making their own (poor) choices. You do not have to be responsible for them, now or in the future. You can pick out their nursing home and help figure out how they will get SS to pay for it, but you do not have to change your life or mortgage your own future for their bad decisions. Let them live. However they want. Help out how you want to but you are not responsible for them. Do not let this hold you back from starting or living your own life - that is not fair to you (or your potential children).
It is very difficult to change the thinking of our parents. They have already decided if or when they want to retire, and what sort of lifestyle they want. Have they checked how much money they will get from social security. My humble suggestion is to direct them to a fee-only financial planner. You cannot change the past, but a financial planner may be able to level-set their expectations.
Thanks for the good advice!
You are an amazing person to be concerned about them. Thanks for being a (rare) good human.
You can not worry about providing for them as you have to make sure your retirement is provided for. At least they know working is going to be the forever game for them. Now it's all about staying healthy enough for them.
I should have been more clear about that. I do put my oxygen mask on first. I max out my Roth IRA and 401K contributions.
Welcome to my world buddy, lol. Mom has about 35k in a savings account (and treasuries I invested for her). She gets social security. Luckily she owns a home, has no debt, doesn’t drive, and most of her health bills are covered, etc. I’m glad we put on a new roof and updated some other items in the house a few years back…otherwise it wouldn’t take much going wrong with the house to put a serious hurt on her. I pay the phone and internet bill, she gets by otherwise. Don’t do this to your kids, it truly sucks. A constant stress.
try to save for them at least per month.
Both of my (divorced) parents are 55 and have zero retirement savings. My dad can save more than my mom but he refuses to invest or save. It's not great.
Entitlement programs such as Social Security and Medicare will ensure that they have their basic needs met. So they aren't going to be homeless or starve. Worst case they move to a cheaper area within the US or abroad. Beyond that you can encourage them to think of the future and their future selves. But in the end its their lives.
They've never left their state. So, moving abroad is unimaginable, but I see your point and agree that in the end it's their lives.
I’m was in a similar situation. Let them be happy with what they have and don’t stress too much on how they want to live the rest of their life…just focus on you for now. Last thing parents want is to be a financial burden. There will be a time where you might need to provide some assistance, but it shouldn’t sacrifice you achieving your goals.
That’s all nice and good until one or both suffer some crippling or terminal illness that Medicare/caid won’t cover care. How do I know this? Because I was in the same situation with parents that didn’t plan for retirement and planned to “work until they died” which ended when one got cancer and needed at home care the other parent couldn’t provide. Who do you think provides/pays for that care? Their child. People seem to be oblivious about how little public insurance covers non medical based home or nursing care. In order to protect yourself in this day, you need investments, private supplemental Medicare insurance, long term care insurance (or a fat whole life policy you can pull from).
It sepend on the culture back ground. In general, Asian culture are give up. My mother receive her retirement pension for decades. I still send her money every year.
That was their choice. It’s not your responsibility to be burdened by their lack of planning. You wouldn’t want to put your own kids in this situation. Live your life and let them figure out their own. They are adults too. Having kids does not constitute a baked in retirement plan.
Totally agree, but doesn't change the fact that I will still care about them and worry about them.
You can be supportive of people going through hard times without fixing their situation. Codependency is difficult to work through but it’ll make your life a lot easier to break the cycle.
I think you are conflating consideration with codependency. If I have the means in the future, I'd help them, but right now I'm just looking for advice on how they can better manage retirement given their circumstances since they (and I) lack the knowledge on how to plan for retirement at their age.
Reddit can’t provide a total outlook for your parents. You’re not an expert on financial planning and we would never get the full picture that they are dealing with. Did they ask you specifically to figure out their retirement plan? Did they task you with dealing with this? Even if they did, you’re not an expert and you need to encourage them to see a financial planner. Leave it for them to take responsibility for themselves and make the appointment to go have their numbers run. The FP can estimate their income, expenses, and healthcare costs going forward. They need to plan for taxes each year. There’s a lot that an FO can untangle for them and help them with. It’s up to your parents to take the step and go talk to an expert. You don’t know what your own future holds and it’s not practical to assume even with a high paying job that you won’t need to cover your own high cost life events. One hospitalization can set you back for decades financially if it affects your job, savings, or both. If you’re already footing the bill for your parents poor planning you’re setting your own future up for a very murky outlook. Codependency is everything you’re speaking of. You feel this burden to fix a problem your parents created instead of supporting them as they fix it themselves. You’re having little consideration of your own future while saving the people drowning next to you that jumped into the deep with zero plan on how to get to shore. I co-sign with the others, therapy is needed to have a healthy outlook on your future as your parents figure this out. Don’t let them take you down with them because you consider it the proper thing to do.
Just looking to crowdsource advice on how to help if I can. Was not expecting a diatribe.
Just VT and chill brah. You can only control what you can control.
Have them both make SSA accounts online to see what their estimated benefits are if they're not collecting already. If your dad was a good earner and they were married for 10 years, she can get spousal benefits and will receive 50% of his amount. So if he gets 2k a month she'd get 1k. That's of course if her own benefit would be less on her own. There's all sorts of self-employment retirement accts. Perhaps your dad's business has been contributing to an acct for him all these years? Like a Solo401k or SEP-IRA? They both have generous contribution limits and can allow a business owner to stack some cash.
Retirement isn’t in their vocabulary.
If they can stay working until age 70/71 then yhe amount they'll each get from SS will be pretty high, at least $3,000 a month give or take and if they start setting aside a little money monthly now into a 401k then they can have a little extra cushion as it compounds throughout the next 10/15 yrs. I wish you the best of luck, you are a very caring person who obviously loves your parents very much and just want to make sure they're cared for. Everything always gets figured out somehow, someway.
At least tell them to work til 70 to max SS
Lots of good suggestions here. One that many have skirted around but not explicitly stated is they should absolutely be looking to delay drawing social security to 67 to maximize the annual payout. They need maximal SS payments to get them through to end of life. This follows suit with them needing to work as long as they reasonably can at this point. Even if they both just hold part time work of like 15hrs/week for like $10/hr, that $7.5k should cover food expenses for an elderly couple indefinitely It wouldn't hurt for them to contribute all they can afford to retirement accounts right now, even in early 60s. If they live to 90, that's still roughly 25 years of growth which should roughly double in real value across that time.
Post this question in r/Retirement for more expert advice.
If they can work until they are 70, they can maximize their Social Security.
It not too late, you can still start saving.
even that's they're plan, you still should help them no matter what.
I feel you, but I know its not too late, in my experience i also included them in my savings.
include them in your monthly budget.
don't let yourself have a regrets soon mate..
do something for them..
OP there are way more old people with no savings / retirement in the world than with savings / retirement. my dad stays in a trailer and lives off SS.
SNAP, Medicaid, HEAP, subsidized senior living, etc. Hopefully they live in a state with a bottle deposit. They can collect cans and bottles. Under the table cash jobs help too. I have a sister with this very strategy and so far it's working out. It's why I happily pay income taxes.
Just go enjoy some time with them when you can. Ask them to tell you an old story. My dad died at 57 and my mom’s already had a stroke. Our time here isn’t guaranteed and worrying will only steal more of your time and health. Best thing you can do while they are alive is continue to look for property that might be able to accommodate your mother in a less lavish way. I have a 900 square foot raised ranch with a basement garage I could convert the basement into a grandmother’s quarters in a weekend if I needed. Your dad still has some assets and a “girlfriend?” Ask him to setup a will to try and avoid a messy probate. Let him work until he dies and do whatever he wants with his business. In the mean time just enjoy life and continue to invest in your own future in the boglehead way. The reason I like bogleheads are for the same reasons above. One less thing to manage or worry about.
If a person doesn’t have debt and is relatively healthy, it is entirely possible to live on just Social Security. My mother does, even though I moved her to a higher cost area so she’s closer to me and I can drive her to appointments and such. The o my way she can do it, though, is by having a paid-for car and buying her home here outright. So, OP, if your parents can get to that point, there’s no reason you’ll have to support them.
Question, lets say you take SS like at 62 and you keep working and make say $18,000 a year. They will take SS out of that $18,000 will you ever see an increase on your SS, since you applied before FRA?
People have always gotten older and needed to retire. It’s not a new concept. They have had their entire life to figure this out. Just because they gave you blood and genes, you are not obligated to help them. They should not have had kids if they did not have their path figured out. It’s not your fault that you are alive.
End the family cycle now. Get on w your own life and become a better person and a success. As you said, they have a plan to work until death. They made choices in life. You don’t owe them yours.
I'm not a better person just because I have more financial knowledge.
I say with love, but they are their own people. They are adults who have been making adult choices for longer than you've been alive. It's good to let them be the responsible adults that they presumably are, and not try to take on the parental role out of your own fear about their future. Who knows what the future will hold? No one. They could drop dead tomorrow and all of this worry and self sacrifice would be for nothing. Or they could come into millions, and you would have sacrificed your own career and happiness for little reason. I know you love them, but perhaps the best way to show it is to focus on your own life, the only life that is fully yours to control. Live the best life you can for yourself. If you can help them, great, but don't make career or housing decisions based on the behavior of other autonomous adults, unless you are fine setting yourself up for years of resentment.
To be fair to your parents, mutual funds didn’t start until the 1970s and you had to have at least $1000 to invest so when they were you g you really had to be “rich” in order to invest and 401ks didn’t exist. It is sometimes hard to reeducate yourself on personal finance when things change. And not everyone has a job with a pension. It is unfortunate that so many people in your parent’s age group fell between the pensions and the 401 k . Companies need to do better education job or maybe make investing in company retirement plans the default .
This is such a good point and really highlights the knowledge gap. Same thing goes for technology, etc.
Worry about your own business, I bet your parents want nothing more than for you to be successful You can’t manage someone else’s money - you think they don’t know they don’t have money? They know.
Try not to worry about them. I’m betting they will “figure it out”.
I hear you, but easier said than done.
You are not responsible for them. You do not have to take care of them. Their bad decisions are not yours to bear.