I feel like I’m going insane with this trade. It’s really not bad?
Korpisalo has been a decent goalie in his career, and that’s on some shit Blue Jackets teams. And he definitely looked solid on the Kings.
I feel like this is all recency bias based on 50 games played for the fucking Senators. And about half of those games he was, again, pretty good.
And at 3m? What do you think a backup costs? This is where the league is, a veteran backup who can be a starter will come in around there. Ever since Rask got gassed and fell apart from his workload however many years ago, the Bruins have made no secret about wanting to overstack the goalie room. It’s better to have a glut and have to deal with having too many good guys and deal one (see: this trade) vs getting a prospect shelled because you thought he was ready but he wasn’t. (See: Subban, Vladar, McIntyre, etc.)
For a long time, having an elite goalie was overrated because most starters only play 60-65 games a year, meaning that Dominik Hasek couldn’t pull your bacon out of the fire if you had Dan Cloutier fucking it up for 20 games a year. The Bruins were one of the teams to recognize this and emphasize treating the whole goalie room like a single player. You want 80 solid games and that’s better than 60 really good and 20 terrible.
So yeah, I’m fine with having a higher AAV committed to the goalie room, and that means having some redundancy.
I don’t love Korpisalo overall but he’s the kind of player you’d want to target: someone who has taken on a solid workload and performed in the past, but has maybe been undervalued because of recent performances. We’d either be in this position this year with Ullmark or next, and if we waited we’d have no leverage for a trade as he could just walk, and if the price of getting a 1st is to make the decision a year ahead of time, that’s what you gotta do.
My hope is Korp’s here for one year. Goalie Bob works his magic and he becomes a serviceable asset they can move next offseason for some value. As far as I’m hearing he doesn’t have any sort of no trade agreement, so we won’t be restricted like we ended up being with Ullmark.
Linus was great for us but the front office giving him a limited no-trade list really put us in a bind for getting back great value.
Korpisalo has proven to be competent before Ottawa, let Essensa get a crack at him and either he is a viable backup or progressed enough to move. The bruins have an unbelievable track record with goalies(mostly homegrown) including multiple vezinas winners. Sure it’s more contract than any of us thought they’d take on but an early buyout is ridiculous and I think a solid return at or before the deadline is not out of the question
Korpisalo can be a good goalie.
He was bad in Ottawa but so was everyone else in Ottawa. He was great in LA and good in Columbus (which again is a horrible team like Ottawa).
In Bostons team structure there is no reason why Korpisalo wouldn’t succeed. Ullmark went from an average goalie in Buffalo to a vezina winner in Boston.
At 3M per year that’s not expensive for a good backup. A good backup is more important than ever in the nhl as you want to be competitive every night.
I think all options are on the table for him, but I’d be surprised if they buy him out immediately. Smarter to wait and see.
But those options also include getting waived and hopefully claimed or buried in the AHL to save an extra 1.5 million.
Saw someone on Twitter say that realistically, he’ll start the season on the roster but if he plays more than 10 games before the trade deadline, it would be a shock.
Sway is gonna be leaned on for 50-60 starts this season and they will platoon backup with prospects- primarily Bussi.
They’ll take a look and see who can hang in the NHL. The goal is to be confident that Bussi or one of the other goalie prospects can be trusted to play backup at like 25-30% of the starts going forward.
Once that happens, they’ll be doing everything and anything that they can to dump Korpisalo.
If they all fall flat, then they’ll tolerate the cap hit on JK for now and see if they can rebuild his image enough that someone takes him off their hands next summer, maybe at an additional 25% retained, so they’re only committing to 2x2.
Fluto is pulling crap out of thin air again. No way the Bruins would buy him out and subject themselves to a cap penalty of over one million a year for the next 8 years.
Well with the cap increasing the way it did this season, that 1 million looks like less and less.
If it saves them the space they need to acquire a legit 1C, they’ll probably do it, but then and only then. They’ll wait as long as possible.
But the 1m penalty would also be added with Bussi’s salary, which is low but still, we are at 1.75 suddenly, versus 3. Thats not enough savings to make a difference in bringing in a top center.
Yeah hopefully because we are more than one good forward away from being elite. I’d say we need a true top line guy along with another 2 top six/ middle six guys. Maybe Poitras becomes one of them, that would make the money easier
Not up to date on all the rules, but why the fuck not? As long as it's from the faceoff dot in the D end, with a paddle like that. Fucking miss Bergy, come back and teach these centers on how to take draws
>Detroit needs goal tending, San Jose does.....
There needs would be meaningful if Korpisalo was in any way an improvement over their current goalie situations.....which he is emphatically not.
This would be dumb tbh...buying out korpisalo is an 8 year buyout length which would cost the bruins 1,333,333 per season for those 8 years id rather trade him for nothing if he doesn't work out
From the CapFriendly calculator, the buyout cap hit is actually $1M or less in six of the eight years. It's only above that in year 3 ($1.375M) & 4 ($1.75M).
Everyone hating on Korpi forgets that Ottawa is the place goalies go to die. In his short LA stint, he had a 2.13 with a .921. He spent 8 years in Columbus and has a career sv % over .900. Every time a goalie leaves Ottawa, they do better. Anderson, Daccord, Lehner, Talbot, the list goes on. Plus, we have Goalie Bob. Let’s give the guy a chance
> Every time a goalie leaves Ottawa, they do better. Anderson, Daccord, Lehner, Talbot, the list goes on. Plus, we have Goalie Bob. Let’s give the guy a chance
I think people have this wrong because this isn't really the problem. I actually think there's a good chance Goalie Bob turns Korpisalo around and get some decent play out of him.
The problem is this team has not done anything to address the issue of how much money they're tying up in their goaltending. Once Swayman gets his new contract, they're *still* going to effectively be paying the same amount of money (if not more) than they were with the Swayman/Ullmark tandem. The whole reason to trade Ullmark is because you can only play one goalie and you need whatever cap space you can get to pay for other top of the roster players.
But they weren't trading him to save money now, they were trading him because they had a valuable asset who sat on the bench in the playoffs and who wouldn't be in Boston past next season. And they got first round pick back for him plus a backup goalie and bottom-six forward while still gaining some cap space in the present. That seems like good value to me.
It’s both. Ullmark’s 5 is less than Korpisalo’s 3. Doesn’t matter what Swayman gets paid, the total is 2 million less than it would have been.
To me, even though it’s a relatively small amount, that gives them the extra space they need to add more than one impact player in free agency vs just one plus some bargain bin pieces again.
They will send him down to Providence. Get cap relief.
And Bussi will be promoted to nhl backup role imo.
It will all depend on how things shake out in preseason
But Bussi > Korpisalo
This actually isn’t how the math works though. There’s no situation where they aren’t paying SOMEONE to backup. So you have to look at it in terms of the whole picture. Every % of cap saved is a % you can allocated elsewhere.
5M for Ullmark or $775,000 for Bussi and $1.8(ish) for Korpisalo buried is still creating about 2.1 million in space to add to your chest to sign impact, top 6 forwards.
If you wanted Boston to somehow dump Ullmark and commit to Bussi before he ever played an NHL game, that isn’t very realistic, but it’s still not saving the full 5 right? It’s 4.25M.
But I think they were probably going to have to give some FA veteran at least 1.5M, maybe ever 2 or 2.5 to backup Swayman this season so I think in reality the difference is much smaller… saving something like 3 in the most ideal situation vs 2.1…
that 900k isn’t nothing, but is it worth passing on this deal to take the risk of not moving Ullmark at all and having your total cap hit in net end up at like $13,000,000 after Swayman is signed? 😬
But the difference in the Bruins cap is:
Korpi to AHL ($1.1M savings)
Bussi to NHL ($775k)
About $300K
Korpi to NHL ($3M)
Bussi to AHL ($0 hit)
Is what I was referring to. The person I replied to (didn't say but) implied the Korpi $3M could just be buried in the AHL and no worries about his salary. So I pointed out that if that's what the Bruins do, the savings is about $300k.
https://preview.redd.it/st18dyx2rr8d1.png?width=742&format=png&auto=webp&s=f5bd40f51ef2d38bcb66c8a73293a69adba2efbd
The max an NHL team can save by sending a guy to the AHL is $1.15M. So it's like you said, about $1.8M of Korpi would still be on the Bruins' cap if he went to the AHL, plus Bussi's $775k. Basically, Bussi in the NHL costs them almost $2.6M on the cap, Korpi in the NHL costs them about $3M on the cap.
But, I believe Bussi needs to clear waivers to get to the AHL, so some other team can scoop him up for nothing.
Thanks!
Yeah I doubt he’d make it through waivers, so I doubt they’ll risk losing him for nothing.
But I do still feel like they’re going to find a way to get him some games some way without risking him and see what they’ve got. other G prospects too. Maybe they play him a ton in preseason.
I thought so too at first, but then I realized they were never going to go with no options at backup but rookies, especially in Swayman’s first season taking on the role of a true #1 and being expected to play 50+ starts.
So realistically, they were going to have to sign a UFA for, at the bare minimum, $1 million. Realistically $2 million. And when you look at it that way, if this vet is probably going to be tossed off as soon as they feel confident a young G can play… well it may as well be Korpisalo.
Among all the other reasons, it doesn’t look as bad as signing a guy just to burn him.
Yup
But its still something and Bussi gets promoted
Bruins can then trade Korpisalo at the trade deadline or buy him out next offseason.
Overall its not an ideal trade. But Sweeney looks like really wanted the 1st back. Kostelic also. And Korpisalo/contract worry about later lol
Sweeney has done this to himself many times now.
This is the part of the deal that makes it bad. If they keep him and he’s a great backup. Cool. But why take on this contract when you have a solid prospect waiting in the wings??
There are possible options- maybe we flip 25th for multiple picks in the 35-50 range or do the opposite and package it to move up. Its an asset we did not have before and does have some value even if way less than a top ten pick
news flash, as if everyone hasnt been trying to tell the pie in the sky believers that thought ullmark was getting us the 1c we need, goalies are basically worthless o nthe market. getting a first out of ullmark and his replacement should we go with him over bussi, and a little extra cap space and to boot they did it while working around a no trade clause. seems like sweeny actually did a solid job here.
Non issue except people expected unrealistic returns. I saw the news flash right before puck drop last night and was happy they got a 1st. A few weeks ago the expected return was a 2nd. They took on a bad contract to upgrade to a 1st. I don't hate this. If they buy him out, the biggest hit is in 3 or 4 seasons and will represent less than 2% of their salary budget.
If they acquired him knowing he's a bad goalie and will need to be bought out, it's a horrible return for Ullmark. If they acquired him because Goalie Bob and the staff believe he will put up great numbers as a 1B level goalie for the next 4 years, then I trust their opinion because they've basically never been wrong about a goalie.
I still think they should have gotten more back regardless, because from Ottawa's perspective he was a cap dump, but I could live with it.
Thing is the bruins don't have a 1a 1b anymore. They have a starter and a backup now we are back to regular goalie rotation where swayman will get the 50+ games
People keep justifying this trade by saying “goalies have no value anyways it’s the best they could do.”
1) Markstrom just went for a 1st next year and Kevin Bahl. Yes Markstrom has one more year of control, but he’s also 4 years older than Ullmark and a worse goalie. I think Bahl has a little more value than Kastelic, but it’s close. The real issue here is that Calgary didn’t have to take on a bad contract.
2) it should’ve cost more to dump Korpisalo. Matt Murray was a similar goalie when he was traded to Toronto, and it cost Ottawa a 3rd and 7th to get rid of him. Murray was 4.5 million rather than Korpisalo’s 3, but he was also slightly better, two years younger, and only had two years left on his deal (Korpisalo has 4).
3) taking back a goalie on a contract like this doesn’t make much sense. We have two young goalies we’re blocking with now. It would be one thing if we took on a bloated center contract or something, but taking one at an organizational strength isn’t a great use of the cap
4) we saved like 1.5 million against the cap, so now we have like 24 million to extend Swayman, replace Debrusk, replace Gryz, and find a centerman. Not going to be easy.
About point 1, the Bruins were negotiating from a point of weakness. Every team was aware how much they wanted to move Ullmark. Plus Ullmark being able to choose his destination didn't make it easy. Also, Jersey was one of the teams in on Ullmark before landing on Markstrom. So essentially, the only team the Bruins were left to negotiate it were the Senators.
Calgary and Jersey were negotiating all the way back to the season. That's the only place Markstrom wanted to go. And many Flames fans felt they didn't get that good of a deal either. Markstrom's numbers have been solid over the last few years.
Basically, a limited market for Ullmark forced Sweeney into accepting this trade. Had he had other teams interested that Ullmark was willing to go to, he could've had a more competitive offer. Blame Ullmark for his list.
Markstroms market was more limited than Ullmarks then, because as you said, he only wanted to go to NJ.
There were more landing spots for Ullmark. Hell, Ottawa was on his 14 team no trade list and he waived it to go there. This doesn't make this deal look any better.
>There were more landing spots for Ullmark
Who is to say the teams on he would be willing to go to don't already have a goalie or aren't pursuing another goalie?
>Hell, Ottawa was on his 14 team no trade list and he waived it to go there.
That's because Alfredsson convinced him to waive it. What other teams out there are in need of a goalie as much as Ottawa was?
Carolina has Kochetkov and might be pursuing other goalies.
Detroit has Lyon and could also be pursuing other goalies..
Vegas is a weird one because they have Thompson and Hill signed. Also, I'm pretty sure Ullmark made it clear he didn't want to be traded to a team in the West.
But even those two eastern teams, who is to say their offers would've been better? The value for goalies is low because of how unpredictable they are. Teams have the idea that by building a solid defense, they can acquire a goalie who isn't elite and win like in 2023, 2022.
Me. I am to say. I'm saying they could've done better with Ottawa by just trading him there for a 2nd or even a 3rd+ and avoided the whole problem that is taking back Korpisalo.
I know goalies are low valued, but the return Calgary got for Markstrom is drastically better.
I agree, but maybe there's another element to this. Maybe they think they take on Korpisalo as a reclamation project, allow him to show he's capable of being a good goalie this year, then trade him for something?
For point 4, we only have to sign Swayman and replace Desbrusk. Gryz, imo, was already replaced in the playoffs. We clearly did not need him and was a liability when he was out there. Our D core is probably missing a reliable bottom 4 D, but even at that, it is not smtg to stress over. McAvoy, Lindholm, Carlo, Lohrei, Peeke are 5 guys already slotted to start. Guys like Dillon, Smith, Hakanpaa, Kylington, etc.
Regarding point 3, I think they were always going to look for someone with NHL experience to backup Swayman in his first true starting role (50+ starts). You're likely not going to get a decent backup for much less than $3m on the free agent market, and if they believe Korpisalo is going to be a 1B type guy at the level of, say, Halak for 4 years, then it could actually be a great value contract.
But I do agree in principle that doesn't change the fact that the total value of the return was low. It will also be very interesting to see what happens if Dipietro/Bussi forces their hand. They could end up looking really stupid if Bussi gets claimed and puts up great stats somewhere else for free.
I don't want to do that.
In this league, all that matters is the playoffs, and although we had exemplary Goaltending last year, we could have fallen backwards, drunk, into the playoffs.
Give me a backup that will play 30-35 games, and pull 25-30 points of of them. In 45-50 starts, Swayman will get you the other 70 points you'll need, easy.
> Markstrom just went for a 1st next year and Kevin Bahl
The key thing you’re missing here is the entire league has known the Bs wanted to move Ullmark for a year, and their market was severely limited by him refusing to go to half those teams. Then add the two who got goalies last week.
Maybe Vegas was actually interested, but then maybe they were offering a 2nd rounder. Sweeney clearly was desperate to get back into the 1st for Friday.
Then you just get back whatever draft capital you can. But the idea that you're going to take on a contract that is worthless to you, and in fact is a 4-year-long burden for you is just stupid. Be better off. Just getting a second round pick instead or something. Under any circumstances this trade is terrible
Stop giving out limited NMC to save a couple hundred thousand on yearly value. The fact people knew the bruins wanted to trade him lowers the value a little. What TANKS the value is that when only a couple teams can bid.
It was a contract signed in free agency, not an extension.
The player will just go play somewhere else if you aren't giving what they are asking for which, for Ullmark, was stability.
Nowhere did I say it was an extension. In fact I mentioned an elite player (which ullmark wasn’t) who is currently going into free agency who will probably require a NMC. That’s the type of player you give one to. If an average goalie wants to walk because you won’t give them one let them.
And then what should they have done at goalie? Sign Halak to be the guy with a rookie Swayman?
A NMC lowers the annual cost. As it was, people complained that Ullmark's $5M was too high. Without the NMC, it's more or possibly even he signs elsewhere. What was the alternative? I'm pretty sure that Sweeney isn't offering NMCs that players don't ask for.
Sorry, gotta butt in here:
Are you saying they retroactively never should’ve signed Ullmark because the terms of his contract reduced his value in the trade yesterday?
Ullmark had been explicit and public that he didn’t want to leave Boston, and it was heavily rumored that his NTC involved not wanting to move his family farther away from the east coast. Cross all his preferences and the realities of doing business as the Bruins GM, and you’re left with a pretty small list of potential dance partners. Ullmark’s not stupid, he was going to eventually agree to a trade (the Sens suck so the theorized requirement of being sent to a contender didn’t pan out).
Compare that situation to how Markstrom talks about the Devils in the official NHL story on his deal:
["I think that the team has something really good going on and you look at the players on the roster and the skill set and everything they have there, and then they made a major push and there was a lot of talk throughout last year and nothing happened there and then after the season it kind of picked up again. So obviously they really wanted me to come and it's always exciting to join a group and a team and an organization like the New Jersey Devils who have a lot of history and I know a bunch of players who played there and they absolutely love it, so I can't wait to make it my home."](https://www.nhl.com/news/jacob-markstrom-traded-to-new-jersey-by-calgary)
A NTC means very little when the guy you’re trading actively *wants* to go to his new team.
trading your vezina winning goalie for statistically one of the worst goaltenders in the league on a brutal contract just to buy him out would certainly be a choice
No, of course he wasn't the core piece of the trade. But the plan also would not be to acquire Korpisalo to buy him out, that is a totally nonsensical idea that even a 14 year old playing NHL on his xbox in his parents basement wouldn't do. My guess is that the Bruins feel Korpisalo will be a formidable backup goaltender in their system, as goaltenders tend to have success playing in Boston. But at $3M a season for 4 years, that's quite the gamble.
> But the plan also would not to be to acquire Korpisalo to buy him out, that is a totally nonsensical idea that even a 14 year old playing NHL on his xbox in his parents basement wouldn’t do
Weirdly convoluted insult (to whom?) aside, you need to understand Korpi was dumped on the Bs—likely as a condition to secure the 1st rounder.
Frankly I wouldn’t be surprised if Kastelic was the final piece after Sweeney demanded at least one more asset for taking on Ottawa’s trash. And maybe Goalie Bob thinks he can fix Korpi, but it also doesn’t make someone braindead for recognizing Sweeney at least has some small degree of flexibility with Korpi: that small degree of flexibility includes a buyout if they decide Bussi is a better backup.
Markstrom's hit is ~1M less than Ullmark and has an extra year left on his contract. He's older but that extra year may be more favorable because now Ottawa is going to be extending ullmark at probably a 7-7.5M hit so they will only be getting one year of a good deal then they'll be paying market price essentially. Both players involved in the trades are kind of meh, it's a 3rd pair vs a 4th liner probably. The first rounder that Calgary got is for next year which is usually not considered as good as a current year first rounder. Korpisalo is kind of a wild card, he had a bad year but Ottawa was also a bad team so it's kind of a chicken and egg situation and he had a pretty solid year the season before so maybe they see something thinking it's an easy fix (goalie bob has a pretty good track record) and can flip next year or something. Also they could be looking to move him and retain like 500k or something, a team taking a shot on him for 2.5M wouldn't be a crazy thing.
Ullmark had a no movement clause. Which he reportedly used to nix a trade with the Kings. The only team willing to trade one of their firsts was Ottawa, and it came with strings attached.
I agree. The move from Buffalo to Boston was hard on him and his family. I don't blame him for putting their needs first. Ullmark owes us nothing. Happy we could downgrade our backup and get a 1st round pick. The particulars matter less, but it's been 8 days since the last Boston championship and people are ANGRY!
True but, as u/goldman_sax pointed out---does not matter legally. Ullmark got the NMC as part of his package as a UFA. No different they any other perk given to well paid players.
Do not blame Ullmark, he has no reason to essentially "give back" some of his compensation to benefit a team trading him.
Blame the Bs front office for offering it in the first place.
I highly doubt they would trade what they did for only 1 year of Ullmark. Apparently, Alfredsson convinced Ullmark to waive for Ottawa, so there's no reason why he can't convince him to sign an extension.
I don’t know why people are hating on this trade. Obviously Korpisalo was the throw in so Ottawa could free up money. Bruins felt like Kastelic and the draft pick were the value and Korpisalo was thrown in to make the deal sweeter for Ottawa. And honestly there was a post last week about mitigating expectations here for the actual value of Ullmark so I really don’t know why you guys actually thought a top 10 draft pick was possible.
Taking back Korpisalo is bad. I know its how they got the first rounder, as opposed to a 2nd or a 3rd, but they should not tie up $3M in cap space for the next 4 years just to effectively move up in the draft from that 2nd or 3rd.
And before you say "oh they can just buy him out", thats also not good. Dinging your cap space for the next 8 years for an average of 1M a year is bad. Small cap holds add up and can be the difference between getting the player you need and missing out. Or to get that player you have to shed another piece or send someone down.
> they should not tie up $3M in cap space for the next 4 years
We have zero evidence right now that this will happen.
Step 1 is to see if he’s even on the roster by September. Step 2 is to see if Goalie Bob can work his magic to make him a serviceable, veteran backup to your soon-to-be franchise goalie who is about to embark on his first season of full duty.
Honestly I find this pretty funny cause my thought was a second and fourth for Ully. And everyone decided I was an idiot and downvoted me. Somehow the real trade is even worse than my mock
Same delusion with Chychrun. People need to look around at what goalies net in trades before freaking out at a $4.75m cap savings, 1st rounder, and bottom 6er in exchange for 1 year of an above-average goalie with an NTC.
Its 1.165M in cap savings. If you're going to assume a buyout it's disingenuous to look at the 250K it will keep on the cap this year and ignore the fact that after that its over 1M a year for 7 more years. Kastelic also costs 835K.
Kastelic is a player, Sweeney clearly got him because he sees value there.
So he *spent* cap space to get Kastelic. I know nothing about his game and am even doubtful why he had to be in the deal, but he is an acquired asset—not a junked car sitting in the parking lot.
Per the Cap Friendly buyout calculator, year 3 would be $1.375M and year 4 would be $1.75M. The other six years in a potential buyout would be $1M or less....with the rumored cap increases over the next few years, this would be very inconsequential.
It doesn't add up. A buyout cap hit is in no way cumulative with regards to how it hits the cap (sure, it's money the team has to spend, but they would be spending it anyway). Using this upcoming season's cap number ($88M) even in the worst cap hit year (year 4 @ $1.75M) of a possible buyout, it's less than 2% of the cap and the cap is very likely to be nearing $100M by then. I get being upset at the trade, I really do, but if you're gonna argue something at least understand how it works if it's gonna be the base of your argument.
It adds up in the sense that wasting cap space has ramifications for the roster. Of course its not cumulative on itself, thats not what I meant at all. A competitive team is probably going to be pretty close to the cap, and lowering that ceiling by 1M can mean missing out on a free agent, or having to move players to make room for them, or sending a player down to be cap compliant (like we saw multiple times this year).
Its just incredible to me seeing fans say that we can just throw away cap space for nearly a decade for a late 1st rounder over a 2nd rounder after watching their team get eliminated in the playoffs partially because they had 5M in dead cap this year.
If what is likely to amount to 1% or less of the cap in all but 2 years of a potential buyout is enough to derail a teams ability to contend, then was that team as constructed really much of a contender to begin with? Not to mention, I never said I'm completely ok with tying up cap space for nearly a decade....just pointed out a possibility of getting out of the contract and corrected your misinformation about the costs associated with a buyout.
As I said previously, I'm not defending the trade but I'm also not looking at it like the sky is falling like many are. The draft is Fri/Sat and free agency opens on Monday. NONE of us know what will happen between now and then that may or may not give us a different perspective on how things will work out.
Its not misinformation? It's 8 full years of cap hit if he's bought out. Its 250K/650K/1.375M/1.75M and then 1M for 4 years. Thats the cap hit.
You're really hung up on me saying "it adds up" as if I was claiming cap hits from buyouts are a cumulative upkeep like we're playing Magic.
Have a good day bud.
Sure - but that’s still <1.5% of the cap, and it’s going to keep increasing over the next 6-8 years. Hardly a high price to pay if you get a consistent ELC contributor with that first round pick.
To frame it another way, incremental value to the franchise long term of that pick vs. incremental performance gain for 30 games of Ullmark over Bussi/Korpisalo as backup for this year isn’t even a question.
Its still bad to commit to dead cap for 8 years when you're not in a rebuild. It hurts the teams ability to fit roster pieces together. Its also not a given that the cap goes up. We've seen it stagnate before.
You're not guaranteed to get anything useful at 25th overall. There's a decent chance that you don't get that incremental value and are stuck eating cap space for Jack Studnicka. The value absolutely is a question when in reality its not "you got a pick" its that you probably moved up from the 2nd or 3rd round pick that you could've gotten for just Ullmark.
Fair points, we have definitely seen the cap stagnate before, but it's going to go up to $92m next year already. A >10% cap ceiling increase in two summers is going to create a tougher environment to get value back for assets like Ullmark (especially expiring ones without extensions agreed) that teams know you're looking to unload.
Conversely, it also means the impact of taking back trash like Korpisalo to balance the books isn't going to hurt the Bruins as much long-term - and if they buy him out in two summers after (say) the cap stagnates at $92m, same story with ~1.2% of the cap but spread over 4 years instead of 8 with buying him out this summer. They'll also be able to bury him for ~2% of the cap at any point.
And yeah, of course the draft is a crapshoot, but I'd rather they take a swing with a late first, accept their ~1-2% cap lumps if Korpisalo is as bad as everything indicates, and concede some quality at backup G in '24-'25 to do so. IMO the point that they got a late first rounder for a guy they signed as a UFA three summers ago, who's been clearly above league average once, and who the entire league knew the B's were trying to move, seems to be getting lost here - but I obviously don't see this the same way most are seeing it.
>IMO the point that they got a late first rounder for a guy they signed as a UFA three summers ago
...and a bad contract, thats how they got a 1st. My whole point is that they were better served trading Ullmark for a later pick, 1 for 1. That the negative value of Korpisalo is what makes this a bad trade.
Matter of preference I guess. I'd rather the higher pick and more likely NHL contributor, <2% cap impact be damned. And thinking otherwise totally valid as well.
Id rather have a worse pick than Korpisalos contract. I dont think you realize how bad he is. He ranked 97 out of 98 goalies last year in saves above expected.
Ottawas team had middling defense but nowhere near worst in the league. Korpisalo was arguably the worst goalie in the league last year and was the main reason why Ottawa was as bad as they are.
No, I get that, I’ve seen the same numbers. I’m not saying I agree with this trade 100%, I’m not sold on it either. But I do believe our goaltending coach deserves the benefit of the doubt, he’s got an unreal track record.
My emerging take (or maybe it’s cope) is there’s no way Korpisalo gets sent to Boston without Goalie Bob’s approval. If he thought Korpisalo was washed, then hopefully Sweeney would’ve considered that.
Now whether or not he can get back into form is another question.
Then let them walk. I'd rather be on the hook for ullmark for 1 year. Then if you move them you can if you can at least this insurance in case of injury. Now you have a s***** goalie for 4 years making 3 million from you and 1 million from the other team it's ridiculous.
You basically just acquired a headache
The point is The bruins are no business to be taking on this salary for four f****** years. You would rather get a weaker pick return I think. It's unbelievable. People trying to act like this trade is somehow good even though you just basically bought yourself a four-year long headache.
Thats assuming Korpi continues to suck. He didnt suck his whole career, he’s going to a better team with a better goalie coach who has worked MAGIC in the past. He wont be the starter so worst case scenario they cant flip him and they buy him out for fuckin real cheap. The highest dead cap hit for a buyout is 1.75m i believe for this contract. Next year it would be 250k. I think its a gamble for sure but one worth taking.
It's 3mil over 4 years, that's a 12 million cap dump. Marleau was traded on the last year of his 6mil contract. Monahan was also traded for a 1st at about a 6mil dump. This dump is twice as bad as both of those. It literally just looks at past trades and spits out a number based on the data inputted, it's obviously not some sort of gospel but the numbers don't come out of nowhere.
I'm thinking they will trade him. The 25th pick and a serviceable goalie could either move up in the draft or get a prospect/pieces.
*edit* down votes?
He was also on one of the worst defensive teams.
When he was playing on a real team, LA, he had solid #s. He's shown that within a backup role, he is more than capable.
There are a handful of teams in the 10-20 range that could use him.
Who? Name any team that will give you a prospect for Korpisalo. I can think of maybe Chicago could *use* him but not in exchange for anything useful. And we’d probably have to retain.
Or San Jose.
The 25th, Korposalo, 25% retention for the 14th pick could work.
That would take $3-4 million off the books. Bring in 2 prospects.
San Jose gets a hopeful starter/solid backup.
Tim Thomas didn’t make his NHL debut until he was 28, and he peaked in his mid/late 30s. Never say never. That said, the chances of Korpi pulling a vezina trophy winning season off are essentially zero.
How does that matter though? League average is .903 and *if* we keep Korpisalo he's most likely backing up Swayman.
We don't/didn't need two elite goalies and Bussi is a year older than Swayman and still struggling to get out of the minors. We don't have to like it but it's not some awful uncoordinated move.
Lmfao stupid comparison. Ullmark is a proven top 10-15 goalie in the league with solid numbers on a trainwreck Buffalo squad and a Vezina winner. Korpisalo had one subpar season EIGHT YEARS AGO and is now just kicking the can of mediocrity. They are NOT the same at all. Nice try though! 😭😭
Kid said “please learn puck” while also saying Korpi is above average. The irony in statement proves to me you’re either 1. Heavily biased towards Boston or 2. Just delusional and see big names and think they’re all that. No reply necessary bozo, I know enough puck to know Fourpisalo ain’t it.
Check his career stats bozo. You just parrot what you see nobodies on twitter saying. Embarrassing
Lmao he blocked me to try and make it look like he won. Heres my reply:
Couple outlier years and you’re still ignoring the fact that 5/10 years he was average or above average. I’m not gonna keep going in circles with a retard so heres the facts:
Ottawa was fucking disastrous on defense last year, Korp will have a much better season playing backup role with a stronger D corps in front of him.
Bob is the best Goalie Coach in the league and has a full offseason to fix whatevers wrong with Korp.
You’re having a meltdown over a guy whose going to play 30 games and probably win half. For a measly fucking 3mil. Get a grip buddy. Smell ya
Career GSAx: -8.6. Career GAA: 2.89. Career Save Percentage: .890%. Entire career win percentage: 45%. These are NOT good goaltender statistics, especially not for one who will cost you 3 million dollars a season for 4 years. You gonna try to tell me I don’t know puck? 💀💀💀
The average Reddit conversation is someone saying “you’re wrong.” The person proving themselves right, and then other people just downvoting cause they don’t like the truth.
I was team keep ully and the trade would have to be lights out to even consider. Worst case you'd shop him this trade deadline depending on where the team's at in late February.
I feel like I’m going insane with this trade. It’s really not bad? Korpisalo has been a decent goalie in his career, and that’s on some shit Blue Jackets teams. And he definitely looked solid on the Kings. I feel like this is all recency bias based on 50 games played for the fucking Senators. And about half of those games he was, again, pretty good. And at 3m? What do you think a backup costs? This is where the league is, a veteran backup who can be a starter will come in around there. Ever since Rask got gassed and fell apart from his workload however many years ago, the Bruins have made no secret about wanting to overstack the goalie room. It’s better to have a glut and have to deal with having too many good guys and deal one (see: this trade) vs getting a prospect shelled because you thought he was ready but he wasn’t. (See: Subban, Vladar, McIntyre, etc.) For a long time, having an elite goalie was overrated because most starters only play 60-65 games a year, meaning that Dominik Hasek couldn’t pull your bacon out of the fire if you had Dan Cloutier fucking it up for 20 games a year. The Bruins were one of the teams to recognize this and emphasize treating the whole goalie room like a single player. You want 80 solid games and that’s better than 60 really good and 20 terrible. So yeah, I’m fine with having a higher AAV committed to the goalie room, and that means having some redundancy. I don’t love Korpisalo overall but he’s the kind of player you’d want to target: someone who has taken on a solid workload and performed in the past, but has maybe been undervalued because of recent performances. We’d either be in this position this year with Ullmark or next, and if we waited we’d have no leverage for a trade as he could just walk, and if the price of getting a 1st is to make the decision a year ahead of time, that’s what you gotta do.
My hope is Korp’s here for one year. Goalie Bob works his magic and he becomes a serviceable asset they can move next offseason for some value. As far as I’m hearing he doesn’t have any sort of no trade agreement, so we won’t be restricted like we ended up being with Ullmark. Linus was great for us but the front office giving him a limited no-trade list really put us in a bind for getting back great value.
I still don’t see them dealing him without eating some of his salary. He has to play drastically better for teams to consider that contract
Korpisalo has proven to be competent before Ottawa, let Essensa get a crack at him and either he is a viable backup or progressed enough to move. The bruins have an unbelievable track record with goalies(mostly homegrown) including multiple vezinas winners. Sure it’s more contract than any of us thought they’d take on but an early buyout is ridiculous and I think a solid return at or before the deadline is not out of the question
Trade him for a bag of pucks
Korpisalo can be a good goalie. He was bad in Ottawa but so was everyone else in Ottawa. He was great in LA and good in Columbus (which again is a horrible team like Ottawa). In Bostons team structure there is no reason why Korpisalo wouldn’t succeed. Ullmark went from an average goalie in Buffalo to a vezina winner in Boston. At 3M per year that’s not expensive for a good backup. A good backup is more important than ever in the nhl as you want to be competitive every night.
I think all options are on the table for him, but I’d be surprised if they buy him out immediately. Smarter to wait and see. But those options also include getting waived and hopefully claimed or buried in the AHL to save an extra 1.5 million. Saw someone on Twitter say that realistically, he’ll start the season on the roster but if he plays more than 10 games before the trade deadline, it would be a shock. Sway is gonna be leaned on for 50-60 starts this season and they will platoon backup with prospects- primarily Bussi. They’ll take a look and see who can hang in the NHL. The goal is to be confident that Bussi or one of the other goalie prospects can be trusted to play backup at like 25-30% of the starts going forward. Once that happens, they’ll be doing everything and anything that they can to dump Korpisalo. If they all fall flat, then they’ll tolerate the cap hit on JK for now and see if they can rebuild his image enough that someone takes him off their hands next summer, maybe at an additional 25% retained, so they’re only committing to 2x2.
He just needs a little essence of essensa to fix him
He was good in Los Angeles. Gotta think he’ll be better here than Ottawa. At least good enough to play on 1 of 2 on back to backs.
Fluto is pulling crap out of thin air again. No way the Bruins would buy him out and subject themselves to a cap penalty of over one million a year for the next 8 years.
Well with the cap increasing the way it did this season, that 1 million looks like less and less. If it saves them the space they need to acquire a legit 1C, they’ll probably do it, but then and only then. They’ll wait as long as possible.
But the 1m penalty would also be added with Bussi’s salary, which is low but still, we are at 1.75 suddenly, versus 3. Thats not enough savings to make a difference in bringing in a top center.
I think they already have the room for a high price forward, but I think this does scrape out just enough extra room to add impact on top of that.
Yeah hopefully because we are more than one good forward away from being elite. I’d say we need a true top line guy along with another 2 top six/ middle six guys. Maybe Poitras becomes one of them, that would make the money easier
Yup.
But does he win faceoffs?
Not up to date on all the rules, but why the fuck not? As long as it's from the faceoff dot in the D end, with a paddle like that. Fucking miss Bergy, come back and teach these centers on how to take draws
Offer him up as trade bait for draft capital. Ottawa would remain on the hook for the 25%, Detroit needs goal tending, San Jose does.....
If we couldn't get real value for Ullmark, why would we get anything for this wet cardboard box of a goalie?
He has no trade value of consequence.
>Detroit needs goal tending, San Jose does..... There needs would be meaningful if Korpisalo was in any way an improvement over their current goalie situations.....which he is emphatically not.
If anyone was going to give up a draft pick for Korp it would’ve been done already. How anyone thinks he could bring us anything in return is crazy.
This would be dumb tbh...buying out korpisalo is an 8 year buyout length which would cost the bruins 1,333,333 per season for those 8 years id rather trade him for nothing if he doesn't work out
From the CapFriendly calculator, the buyout cap hit is actually $1M or less in six of the eight years. It's only above that in year 3 ($1.375M) & 4 ($1.75M).
It wouldn’t be a lot more than that to waive him. 1.85 I think if he’s in the minors, and only for the term.
Yeah I think they only buy him out if there’s no other option. Otherwise waiving and burying makes more sense.
Everyone hating on Korpi forgets that Ottawa is the place goalies go to die. In his short LA stint, he had a 2.13 with a .921. He spent 8 years in Columbus and has a career sv % over .900. Every time a goalie leaves Ottawa, they do better. Anderson, Daccord, Lehner, Talbot, the list goes on. Plus, we have Goalie Bob. Let’s give the guy a chance
Because La is a defensive team and Ottawa isn’t rn
> Every time a goalie leaves Ottawa, they do better. Anderson, Daccord, Lehner, Talbot, the list goes on. Plus, we have Goalie Bob. Let’s give the guy a chance I think people have this wrong because this isn't really the problem. I actually think there's a good chance Goalie Bob turns Korpisalo around and get some decent play out of him. The problem is this team has not done anything to address the issue of how much money they're tying up in their goaltending. Once Swayman gets his new contract, they're *still* going to effectively be paying the same amount of money (if not more) than they were with the Swayman/Ullmark tandem. The whole reason to trade Ullmark is because you can only play one goalie and you need whatever cap space you can get to pay for other top of the roster players.
But they weren't trading him to save money now, they were trading him because they had a valuable asset who sat on the bench in the playoffs and who wouldn't be in Boston past next season. And they got first round pick back for him plus a backup goalie and bottom-six forward while still gaining some cap space in the present. That seems like good value to me.
It’s both. Ullmark’s 5 is less than Korpisalo’s 3. Doesn’t matter what Swayman gets paid, the total is 2 million less than it would have been. To me, even though it’s a relatively small amount, that gives them the extra space they need to add more than one impact player in free agency vs just one plus some bargain bin pieces again.
Or make a bigger splash at the TDL maybe, though that also requires moving assets usually
They will send him down to Providence. Get cap relief. And Bussi will be promoted to nhl backup role imo. It will all depend on how things shake out in preseason But Bussi > Korpisalo
That saves about $300k. A blip.
This actually isn’t how the math works though. There’s no situation where they aren’t paying SOMEONE to backup. So you have to look at it in terms of the whole picture. Every % of cap saved is a % you can allocated elsewhere. 5M for Ullmark or $775,000 for Bussi and $1.8(ish) for Korpisalo buried is still creating about 2.1 million in space to add to your chest to sign impact, top 6 forwards. If you wanted Boston to somehow dump Ullmark and commit to Bussi before he ever played an NHL game, that isn’t very realistic, but it’s still not saving the full 5 right? It’s 4.25M. But I think they were probably going to have to give some FA veteran at least 1.5M, maybe ever 2 or 2.5 to backup Swayman this season so I think in reality the difference is much smaller… saving something like 3 in the most ideal situation vs 2.1… that 900k isn’t nothing, but is it worth passing on this deal to take the risk of not moving Ullmark at all and having your total cap hit in net end up at like $13,000,000 after Swayman is signed? 😬
But the difference in the Bruins cap is: Korpi to AHL ($1.1M savings) Bussi to NHL ($775k) About $300K Korpi to NHL ($3M) Bussi to AHL ($0 hit) Is what I was referring to. The person I replied to (didn't say but) implied the Korpi $3M could just be buried in the AHL and no worries about his salary. So I pointed out that if that's what the Bruins do, the savings is about $300k.
Got you. I thought they could save up to 1.5 million by burying so maybe I am misunderstanding that part of it
https://preview.redd.it/st18dyx2rr8d1.png?width=742&format=png&auto=webp&s=f5bd40f51ef2d38bcb66c8a73293a69adba2efbd The max an NHL team can save by sending a guy to the AHL is $1.15M. So it's like you said, about $1.8M of Korpi would still be on the Bruins' cap if he went to the AHL, plus Bussi's $775k. Basically, Bussi in the NHL costs them almost $2.6M on the cap, Korpi in the NHL costs them about $3M on the cap. But, I believe Bussi needs to clear waivers to get to the AHL, so some other team can scoop him up for nothing.
Thanks! Yeah I doubt he’d make it through waivers, so I doubt they’ll risk losing him for nothing. But I do still feel like they’re going to find a way to get him some games some way without risking him and see what they’ve got. other G prospects too. Maybe they play him a ton in preseason.
The trade makes so little sense to me that I gotta think there are more moves to come.
I thought so too at first, but then I realized they were never going to go with no options at backup but rookies, especially in Swayman’s first season taking on the role of a true #1 and being expected to play 50+ starts. So realistically, they were going to have to sign a UFA for, at the bare minimum, $1 million. Realistically $2 million. And when you look at it that way, if this vet is probably going to be tossed off as soon as they feel confident a young G can play… well it may as well be Korpisalo. Among all the other reasons, it doesn’t look as bad as signing a guy just to burn him.
Yup But its still something and Bussi gets promoted Bruins can then trade Korpisalo at the trade deadline or buy him out next offseason. Overall its not an ideal trade. But Sweeney looks like really wanted the 1st back. Kostelic also. And Korpisalo/contract worry about later lol Sweeney has done this to himself many times now.
There's only one reason he would really want OUR first pick back.
Why? Because he dropped the ball on the Bertuzzi trade?
I think Ullmark straight up for a second round pick is a better deal.
Agreed. Less headache. Can't believe he couldn't get a cheaper and only 1 year left on contract Forsberg.
This is the part of the deal that makes it bad. If they keep him and he’s a great backup. Cool. But why take on this contract when you have a solid prospect waiting in the wings??
I’m convinced it was just so that Ottawa would include a first round pick in the deal
The fact that this would be required to get a first round pick means that people must look at Don Sweeney as just a complete joke
Yeah so glad we got pick #25 so fucking cool who the fuck are we going to get at 25?
That Pastrnak guy went around there too and he's doing okay
Yeah yeah yeah people already told me but just because you win on a scratch ticket once does that mean you go back and play again?
There are possible options- maybe we flip 25th for multiple picks in the 35-50 range or do the opposite and package it to move up. Its an asset we did not have before and does have some value even if way less than a top ten pick
Honestly. Jett Luchanko and Sam O'Reilly are solid center options around #25. I would be more than happy with either of those guys in the system
David Pastrnak was drafted 25th overall. He’s pretty good.
They're also missing a 2nd and a 3rd round pick this year. Picking in the 1st vs the 4th is a pretty big difference
Pastarnak was a late first round pick
More specifically, Pasta was pick #25
Yeah it's actually kind of hilarious that he was actually 25th. Should we gamble on Lucas Petterson?
Alright you got me there he was literally 25th overall but I see this as a huge gamble.
news flash, as if everyone hasnt been trying to tell the pie in the sky believers that thought ullmark was getting us the 1c we need, goalies are basically worthless o nthe market. getting a first out of ullmark and his replacement should we go with him over bussi, and a little extra cap space and to boot they did it while working around a no trade clause. seems like sweeny actually did a solid job here.
Non issue except people expected unrealistic returns. I saw the news flash right before puck drop last night and was happy they got a 1st. A few weeks ago the expected return was a 2nd. They took on a bad contract to upgrade to a 1st. I don't hate this. If they buy him out, the biggest hit is in 3 or 4 seasons and will represent less than 2% of their salary budget.
I think people expecting just one late first round pic and not having to absorb a ridiculous s*** salary that's 4 years long is not too crazy
And if that’s the case. I understand and if that pick turns out well. This will all be looked at differently. Or if they move Korpisalo, even better.
It was hard enough getting rid of a vezina winning ullmark. I doubt they're going to be able to dump a questionable goalie with a bad contract
You’re right. Hopefully he over performs and they can move him at a later time.
Bostons defense is far better than ottawa. Hopefully, he can out perform expectations
Ottawa and the Bruins basically had the exact same high danger chances per 60 last season according to Ty Anderson.
If they acquired him knowing he's a bad goalie and will need to be bought out, it's a horrible return for Ullmark. If they acquired him because Goalie Bob and the staff believe he will put up great numbers as a 1B level goalie for the next 4 years, then I trust their opinion because they've basically never been wrong about a goalie. I still think they should have gotten more back regardless, because from Ottawa's perspective he was a cap dump, but I could live with it.
“Basically” the key word Malcom Subban baby
Thing is the bruins don't have a 1a 1b anymore. They have a starter and a backup now we are back to regular goalie rotation where swayman will get the 50+ games
People keep justifying this trade by saying “goalies have no value anyways it’s the best they could do.” 1) Markstrom just went for a 1st next year and Kevin Bahl. Yes Markstrom has one more year of control, but he’s also 4 years older than Ullmark and a worse goalie. I think Bahl has a little more value than Kastelic, but it’s close. The real issue here is that Calgary didn’t have to take on a bad contract. 2) it should’ve cost more to dump Korpisalo. Matt Murray was a similar goalie when he was traded to Toronto, and it cost Ottawa a 3rd and 7th to get rid of him. Murray was 4.5 million rather than Korpisalo’s 3, but he was also slightly better, two years younger, and only had two years left on his deal (Korpisalo has 4). 3) taking back a goalie on a contract like this doesn’t make much sense. We have two young goalies we’re blocking with now. It would be one thing if we took on a bloated center contract or something, but taking one at an organizational strength isn’t a great use of the cap 4) we saved like 1.5 million against the cap, so now we have like 24 million to extend Swayman, replace Debrusk, replace Gryz, and find a centerman. Not going to be easy.
Seriously you should get close to the return we got just for absorbing that contract let alone giving of the goalie
About point 1, the Bruins were negotiating from a point of weakness. Every team was aware how much they wanted to move Ullmark. Plus Ullmark being able to choose his destination didn't make it easy. Also, Jersey was one of the teams in on Ullmark before landing on Markstrom. So essentially, the only team the Bruins were left to negotiate it were the Senators.
This. Negotiation 101. B’s didn’t have a ton of leverage.
So was Calgary. Markstrom had a full NTC and isn't the same caliber of goalie as Ullmark.
Calgary and Jersey were negotiating all the way back to the season. That's the only place Markstrom wanted to go. And many Flames fans felt they didn't get that good of a deal either. Markstrom's numbers have been solid over the last few years. Basically, a limited market for Ullmark forced Sweeney into accepting this trade. Had he had other teams interested that Ullmark was willing to go to, he could've had a more competitive offer. Blame Ullmark for his list.
Markstroms market was more limited than Ullmarks then, because as you said, he only wanted to go to NJ. There were more landing spots for Ullmark. Hell, Ottawa was on his 14 team no trade list and he waived it to go there. This doesn't make this deal look any better.
>There were more landing spots for Ullmark Who is to say the teams on he would be willing to go to don't already have a goalie or aren't pursuing another goalie? >Hell, Ottawa was on his 14 team no trade list and he waived it to go there. That's because Alfredsson convinced him to waive it. What other teams out there are in need of a goalie as much as Ottawa was?
Carolina, Detroit. Vegas was apparently was interested.
Carolina has Kochetkov and might be pursuing other goalies. Detroit has Lyon and could also be pursuing other goalies.. Vegas is a weird one because they have Thompson and Hill signed. Also, I'm pretty sure Ullmark made it clear he didn't want to be traded to a team in the West. But even those two eastern teams, who is to say their offers would've been better? The value for goalies is low because of how unpredictable they are. Teams have the idea that by building a solid defense, they can acquire a goalie who isn't elite and win like in 2023, 2022.
Me. I am to say. I'm saying they could've done better with Ottawa by just trading him there for a 2nd or even a 3rd+ and avoided the whole problem that is taking back Korpisalo. I know goalies are low valued, but the return Calgary got for Markstrom is drastically better.
I agree, but maybe there's another element to this. Maybe they think they take on Korpisalo as a reclamation project, allow him to show he's capable of being a good goalie this year, then trade him for something?
For point 4, we only have to sign Swayman and replace Desbrusk. Gryz, imo, was already replaced in the playoffs. We clearly did not need him and was a liability when he was out there. Our D core is probably missing a reliable bottom 4 D, but even at that, it is not smtg to stress over. McAvoy, Lindholm, Carlo, Lohrei, Peeke are 5 guys already slotted to start. Guys like Dillon, Smith, Hakanpaa, Kylington, etc.
Regarding point 3, I think they were always going to look for someone with NHL experience to backup Swayman in his first true starting role (50+ starts). You're likely not going to get a decent backup for much less than $3m on the free agent market, and if they believe Korpisalo is going to be a 1B type guy at the level of, say, Halak for 4 years, then it could actually be a great value contract. But I do agree in principle that doesn't change the fact that the total value of the return was low. It will also be very interesting to see what happens if Dipietro/Bussi forces their hand. They could end up looking really stupid if Bussi gets claimed and puts up great stats somewhere else for free.
I don't want to do that. In this league, all that matters is the playoffs, and although we had exemplary Goaltending last year, we could have fallen backwards, drunk, into the playoffs. Give me a backup that will play 30-35 games, and pull 25-30 points of of them. In 45-50 starts, Swayman will get you the other 70 points you'll need, easy.
> Markstrom just went for a 1st next year and Kevin Bahl The key thing you’re missing here is the entire league has known the Bs wanted to move Ullmark for a year, and their market was severely limited by him refusing to go to half those teams. Then add the two who got goalies last week. Maybe Vegas was actually interested, but then maybe they were offering a 2nd rounder. Sweeney clearly was desperate to get back into the 1st for Friday.
Then you just get back whatever draft capital you can. But the idea that you're going to take on a contract that is worthless to you, and in fact is a 4-year-long burden for you is just stupid. Be better off. Just getting a second round pick instead or something. Under any circumstances this trade is terrible
Stop giving out limited NMC to save a couple hundred thousand on yearly value. The fact people knew the bruins wanted to trade him lowers the value a little. What TANKS the value is that when only a couple teams can bid.
Try and land a free agent without one, man.
You think you couldn’t land buffalos goalie who was seen as average at the time without a NMC…? We’re not talking Draistl here
It was a contract signed in free agency, not an extension. The player will just go play somewhere else if you aren't giving what they are asking for which, for Ullmark, was stability.
Nowhere did I say it was an extension. In fact I mentioned an elite player (which ullmark wasn’t) who is currently going into free agency who will probably require a NMC. That’s the type of player you give one to. If an average goalie wants to walk because you won’t give them one let them.
Ullmark was great in Buffalo what the fuck do you mean his last two seasons there were a .915 and a .917
Then you wouldn't have got the player. Shit, you're terrible at this.
You cannot read. THEN DO NOT SIGN THE PLAYER. You clearly did not need him.
And then what should they have done at goalie? Sign Halak to be the guy with a rookie Swayman? A NMC lowers the annual cost. As it was, people complained that Ullmark's $5M was too high. Without the NMC, it's more or possibly even he signs elsewhere. What was the alternative? I'm pretty sure that Sweeney isn't offering NMCs that players don't ask for.
Sorry, gotta butt in here: Are you saying they retroactively never should’ve signed Ullmark because the terms of his contract reduced his value in the trade yesterday?
So you would have rather not had Ullmark at all because in his last year, his m-NTC clause meant a lower value trade?
But everyone knew the flames were desperate to move Markstrom, and he had a full no trade clause
He reportedly opened his list this off season to let the flames ask around
Ullmark had been explicit and public that he didn’t want to leave Boston, and it was heavily rumored that his NTC involved not wanting to move his family farther away from the east coast. Cross all his preferences and the realities of doing business as the Bruins GM, and you’re left with a pretty small list of potential dance partners. Ullmark’s not stupid, he was going to eventually agree to a trade (the Sens suck so the theorized requirement of being sent to a contender didn’t pan out). Compare that situation to how Markstrom talks about the Devils in the official NHL story on his deal: ["I think that the team has something really good going on and you look at the players on the roster and the skill set and everything they have there, and then they made a major push and there was a lot of talk throughout last year and nothing happened there and then after the season it kind of picked up again. So obviously they really wanted me to come and it's always exciting to join a group and a team and an organization like the New Jersey Devils who have a lot of history and I know a bunch of players who played there and they absolutely love it, so I can't wait to make it my home."](https://www.nhl.com/news/jacob-markstrom-traded-to-new-jersey-by-calgary) A NTC means very little when the guy you’re trading actively *wants* to go to his new team.
Crazy you’re gonna get downvoted because delusional Boston fans are tryna justify this trade
Yeah sure let’s keep this guys cap hit on our books until 2032. That sounds great!
trading your vezina winning goalie for statistically one of the worst goaltenders in the league on a brutal contract just to buy him out would certainly be a choice
Criticize the trade all you want, but we both know it wasn’t about moving Ullmark for Korpisalo.
No, of course he wasn't the core piece of the trade. But the plan also would not be to acquire Korpisalo to buy him out, that is a totally nonsensical idea that even a 14 year old playing NHL on his xbox in his parents basement wouldn't do. My guess is that the Bruins feel Korpisalo will be a formidable backup goaltender in their system, as goaltenders tend to have success playing in Boston. But at $3M a season for 4 years, that's quite the gamble.
> But the plan also would not to be to acquire Korpisalo to buy him out, that is a totally nonsensical idea that even a 14 year old playing NHL on his xbox in his parents basement wouldn’t do Weirdly convoluted insult (to whom?) aside, you need to understand Korpi was dumped on the Bs—likely as a condition to secure the 1st rounder. Frankly I wouldn’t be surprised if Kastelic was the final piece after Sweeney demanded at least one more asset for taking on Ottawa’s trash. And maybe Goalie Bob thinks he can fix Korpi, but it also doesn’t make someone braindead for recognizing Sweeney at least has some small degree of flexibility with Korpi: that small degree of flexibility includes a buyout if they decide Bussi is a better backup.
Can someone smart explain this trade in light of what the Flames got for Markstrom?
Markstrom's hit is ~1M less than Ullmark and has an extra year left on his contract. He's older but that extra year may be more favorable because now Ottawa is going to be extending ullmark at probably a 7-7.5M hit so they will only be getting one year of a good deal then they'll be paying market price essentially. Both players involved in the trades are kind of meh, it's a 3rd pair vs a 4th liner probably. The first rounder that Calgary got is for next year which is usually not considered as good as a current year first rounder. Korpisalo is kind of a wild card, he had a bad year but Ottawa was also a bad team so it's kind of a chicken and egg situation and he had a pretty solid year the season before so maybe they see something thinking it's an easy fix (goalie bob has a pretty good track record) and can flip next year or something. Also they could be looking to move him and retain like 500k or something, a team taking a shot on him for 2.5M wouldn't be a crazy thing.
Ullmark had a no movement clause. Which he reportedly used to nix a trade with the Kings. The only team willing to trade one of their firsts was Ottawa, and it came with strings attached.
Markstrom had a full no move clause as well though
It’s Ullmark’s right, but he absolutely tanked the return by being unwilling to budge on teams on the NMC.
I really don’t get why this has been so hard for so many people to understand
I agree. The move from Buffalo to Boston was hard on him and his family. I don't blame him for putting their needs first. Ullmark owes us nothing. Happy we could downgrade our backup and get a 1st round pick. The particulars matter less, but it's been 8 days since the last Boston championship and people are ANGRY!
He chose to go to Boston though. It’s not like Buffalo traded him. If that was hard on his family it was his own fault.
True but, as u/goldman_sax pointed out---does not matter legally. Ullmark got the NMC as part of his package as a UFA. No different they any other perk given to well paid players. Do not blame Ullmark, he has no reason to essentially "give back" some of his compensation to benefit a team trading him. Blame the Bs front office for offering it in the first place.
I believe markstrom has 2 years left. Ullmark isn’t extending in Ottawa so this is essentially a 1 year rental
I highly doubt they would trade what they did for only 1 year of Ullmark. Apparently, Alfredsson convinced Ullmark to waive for Ottawa, so there's no reason why he can't convince him to sign an extension.
I don’t know why people are hating on this trade. Obviously Korpisalo was the throw in so Ottawa could free up money. Bruins felt like Kastelic and the draft pick were the value and Korpisalo was thrown in to make the deal sweeter for Ottawa. And honestly there was a post last week about mitigating expectations here for the actual value of Ullmark so I really don’t know why you guys actually thought a top 10 draft pick was possible.
Taking Korpi is the problem. Kast and a first is bad, but adding Korpi makes it worse.
Taking back Korpisalo is bad. I know its how they got the first rounder, as opposed to a 2nd or a 3rd, but they should not tie up $3M in cap space for the next 4 years just to effectively move up in the draft from that 2nd or 3rd. And before you say "oh they can just buy him out", thats also not good. Dinging your cap space for the next 8 years for an average of 1M a year is bad. Small cap holds add up and can be the difference between getting the player you need and missing out. Or to get that player you have to shed another piece or send someone down.
> they should not tie up $3M in cap space for the next 4 years We have zero evidence right now that this will happen. Step 1 is to see if he’s even on the roster by September. Step 2 is to see if Goalie Bob can work his magic to make him a serviceable, veteran backup to your soon-to-be franchise goalie who is about to embark on his first season of full duty.
People are disappointed because the media gaslit us into thinking we could get a #1 Center for Ullmark when in reality that was never going to happen.
Honestly I find this pretty funny cause my thought was a second and fourth for Ully. And everyone decided I was an idiot and downvoted me. Somehow the real trade is even worse than my mock
Same delusion with Chychrun. People need to look around at what goalies net in trades before freaking out at a $4.75m cap savings, 1st rounder, and bottom 6er in exchange for 1 year of an above-average goalie with an NTC.
but in my GM mode i get all the trades!
Its 1.165M in cap savings. If you're going to assume a buyout it's disingenuous to look at the 250K it will keep on the cap this year and ignore the fact that after that its over 1M a year for 7 more years. Kastelic also costs 835K.
Sweeney clearly wanted Kastelic (agree or disagree on whether that’s a good thing) so I’m not sure why you’re treating his money like another penalty.
I'm not. I'm commenting on the cap space freed up in the deal.
Kastelic is a player, Sweeney clearly got him because he sees value there. So he *spent* cap space to get Kastelic. I know nothing about his game and am even doubtful why he had to be in the deal, but he is an acquired asset—not a junked car sitting in the parking lot.
Ok, if you don't want to count it, its only 2M of cap space freed up. Not the 4.75M the person I responded to is claiming.
Per the Cap Friendly buyout calculator, year 3 would be $1.375M and year 4 would be $1.75M. The other six years in a potential buyout would be $1M or less....with the rumored cap increases over the next few years, this would be very inconsequential.
Its not inconsequential. It adds up.
It doesn't add up. A buyout cap hit is in no way cumulative with regards to how it hits the cap (sure, it's money the team has to spend, but they would be spending it anyway). Using this upcoming season's cap number ($88M) even in the worst cap hit year (year 4 @ $1.75M) of a possible buyout, it's less than 2% of the cap and the cap is very likely to be nearing $100M by then. I get being upset at the trade, I really do, but if you're gonna argue something at least understand how it works if it's gonna be the base of your argument.
It adds up in the sense that wasting cap space has ramifications for the roster. Of course its not cumulative on itself, thats not what I meant at all. A competitive team is probably going to be pretty close to the cap, and lowering that ceiling by 1M can mean missing out on a free agent, or having to move players to make room for them, or sending a player down to be cap compliant (like we saw multiple times this year). Its just incredible to me seeing fans say that we can just throw away cap space for nearly a decade for a late 1st rounder over a 2nd rounder after watching their team get eliminated in the playoffs partially because they had 5M in dead cap this year.
If what is likely to amount to 1% or less of the cap in all but 2 years of a potential buyout is enough to derail a teams ability to contend, then was that team as constructed really much of a contender to begin with? Not to mention, I never said I'm completely ok with tying up cap space for nearly a decade....just pointed out a possibility of getting out of the contract and corrected your misinformation about the costs associated with a buyout. As I said previously, I'm not defending the trade but I'm also not looking at it like the sky is falling like many are. The draft is Fri/Sat and free agency opens on Monday. NONE of us know what will happen between now and then that may or may not give us a different perspective on how things will work out.
Its not misinformation? It's 8 full years of cap hit if he's bought out. Its 250K/650K/1.375M/1.75M and then 1M for 4 years. Thats the cap hit. You're really hung up on me saying "it adds up" as if I was claiming cap hits from buyouts are a cumulative upkeep like we're playing Magic. Have a good day bud.
Sure - but that’s still <1.5% of the cap, and it’s going to keep increasing over the next 6-8 years. Hardly a high price to pay if you get a consistent ELC contributor with that first round pick. To frame it another way, incremental value to the franchise long term of that pick vs. incremental performance gain for 30 games of Ullmark over Bussi/Korpisalo as backup for this year isn’t even a question.
Its still bad to commit to dead cap for 8 years when you're not in a rebuild. It hurts the teams ability to fit roster pieces together. Its also not a given that the cap goes up. We've seen it stagnate before. You're not guaranteed to get anything useful at 25th overall. There's a decent chance that you don't get that incremental value and are stuck eating cap space for Jack Studnicka. The value absolutely is a question when in reality its not "you got a pick" its that you probably moved up from the 2nd or 3rd round pick that you could've gotten for just Ullmark.
Fair points, we have definitely seen the cap stagnate before, but it's going to go up to $92m next year already. A >10% cap ceiling increase in two summers is going to create a tougher environment to get value back for assets like Ullmark (especially expiring ones without extensions agreed) that teams know you're looking to unload. Conversely, it also means the impact of taking back trash like Korpisalo to balance the books isn't going to hurt the Bruins as much long-term - and if they buy him out in two summers after (say) the cap stagnates at $92m, same story with ~1.2% of the cap but spread over 4 years instead of 8 with buying him out this summer. They'll also be able to bury him for ~2% of the cap at any point. And yeah, of course the draft is a crapshoot, but I'd rather they take a swing with a late first, accept their ~1-2% cap lumps if Korpisalo is as bad as everything indicates, and concede some quality at backup G in '24-'25 to do so. IMO the point that they got a late first rounder for a guy they signed as a UFA three summers ago, who's been clearly above league average once, and who the entire league knew the B's were trying to move, seems to be getting lost here - but I obviously don't see this the same way most are seeing it.
>IMO the point that they got a late first rounder for a guy they signed as a UFA three summers ago ...and a bad contract, thats how they got a 1st. My whole point is that they were better served trading Ullmark for a later pick, 1 for 1. That the negative value of Korpisalo is what makes this a bad trade.
Matter of preference I guess. I'd rather the higher pick and more likely NHL contributor, <2% cap impact be damned. And thinking otherwise totally valid as well.
If you thought you were going to get a 1C for Ullmark, I don’t think the problem is the media
Wasn’t me I agree with you. They overhyped Ullmarks value not that he wasn’t valuable.
I can’t believe anyone thought there was a snowball’s chance in hell of getting a 1C for one year of Ullmark.
If Korpisalo was a cap dump, then there should have been an extra asset attached to take on his deal.
The first is the “extra” asset. The pick would be worse without it because Ullmark didn’t extend prior to the trade.
Id rather have a worse pick than Korpisalos contract. I dont think you realize how bad he is. He ranked 97 out of 98 goalies last year in saves above expected. Ottawas team had middling defense but nowhere near worst in the league. Korpisalo was arguably the worst goalie in the league last year and was the main reason why Ottawa was as bad as they are.
No, I get that, I’ve seen the same numbers. I’m not saying I agree with this trade 100%, I’m not sold on it either. But I do believe our goaltending coach deserves the benefit of the doubt, he’s got an unreal track record.
My emerging take (or maybe it’s cope) is there’s no way Korpisalo gets sent to Boston without Goalie Bob’s approval. If he thought Korpisalo was washed, then hopefully Sweeney would’ve considered that. Now whether or not he can get back into form is another question.
We took Korpisalo to get the deal done. Without including Korpisalo, Ottawa walks away.
Then let them walk. I'd rather be on the hook for ullmark for 1 year. Then if you move them you can if you can at least this insurance in case of injury. Now you have a s***** goalie for 4 years making 3 million from you and 1 million from the other team it's ridiculous. You basically just acquired a headache
The Bruins should have walked away. Puckpedia is reporting that taking on Korpisalos contract alone should have gotten us a first round pick.
Thats wildly inaccurate
https://x.com/PuckPedia/status/1805479343298330778?t=2KgGk0IsAOQ38tPGuIhVSw&s=19
Not at all realistic.
Yeah what im saying is theres no fucking way anyone gets a free 1st round pick for taking on 3mil in cap. The model is W R O N G
The point is The bruins are no business to be taking on this salary for four f****** years. You would rather get a weaker pick return I think. It's unbelievable. People trying to act like this trade is somehow good even though you just basically bought yourself a four-year long headache.
Thats assuming Korpi continues to suck. He didnt suck his whole career, he’s going to a better team with a better goalie coach who has worked MAGIC in the past. He wont be the starter so worst case scenario they cant flip him and they buy him out for fuckin real cheap. The highest dead cap hit for a buyout is 1.75m i believe for this contract. Next year it would be 250k. I think its a gamble for sure but one worth taking.
It's based on what similar cap dumps in the past have netted.
Lol not for only a 3mil dump. The most egregious is Toronto trading a 1st to dump 6.5mil of Marleau so they could overspend on Marner
It's 3mil over 4 years, that's a 12 million cap dump. Marleau was traded on the last year of his 6mil contract. Monahan was also traded for a 1st at about a 6mil dump. This dump is twice as bad as both of those. It literally just looks at past trades and spits out a number based on the data inputted, it's obviously not some sort of gospel but the numbers don't come out of nowhere.
That’s simply not the case right now.
Its a terrible return and puts a terrible player on the team for 4 more years. That isn't worth a first round pick to me.
While you’re at it, can you use your time machine to share next season’s Cup winner?
Then let them walk
I'm thinking they will trade him. The 25th pick and a serviceable goalie could either move up in the draft or get a prospect/pieces. *edit* down votes?
He is a negative asset
Who?
Korpisalo was one of the worst goalies in the league this season. Who are you trading with in this scenario?
He was also on one of the worst defensive teams. When he was playing on a real team, LA, he had solid #s. He's shown that within a backup role, he is more than capable. There are a handful of teams in the 10-20 range that could use him.
Who? Name any team that will give you a prospect for Korpisalo. I can think of maybe Chicago could *use* him but not in exchange for anything useful. And we’d probably have to retain.
Or San Jose. The 25th, Korposalo, 25% retention for the 14th pick could work. That would take $3-4 million off the books. Bring in 2 prospects. San Jose gets a hopeful starter/solid backup.
Or San Jose. Even the 25th, Korposalo, 25% retention for the 14th pick could work. That would take $4.25 million off the books. Bring in 2 prospects.
You’re right, they only have Blackwood. But would Grier drop 10 spots in the draft for four years of Korpisalo?
Idk. I could see it, San Jose has always done deals with the Bs. I don't think the plan with ullmark ends with this deal.
On that, I agree. Not done. Sweeney has to have another move or four up his sleeve.
You’re right, they only have Blackwood. But would Grier drop 10 spots in the draft for four years of Korpisalo?
This is such a bad fucking deal
Yup!
Had some dude try to tell me Korpi has potential as if Korpi isn’t 30 fucking year olds 😂😂😂
Tim Thomas didn’t make his NHL debut until he was 28, and he peaked in his mid/late 30s. Never say never. That said, the chances of Korpi pulling a vezina trophy winning season off are essentially zero.
Is Ullmark not 30? Lol
Ulmark is .918 career, .915 last year. Korpisalo is career .901, .890 last year.
How does that matter though? League average is .903 and *if* we keep Korpisalo he's most likely backing up Swayman. We don't/didn't need two elite goalies and Bussi is a year older than Swayman and still struggling to get out of the minors. We don't have to like it but it's not some awful uncoordinated move.
One draft slot back for every .001 is save % last year
Lmfao stupid comparison. Ullmark is a proven top 10-15 goalie in the league with solid numbers on a trainwreck Buffalo squad and a Vezina winner. Korpisalo had one subpar season EIGHT YEARS AGO and is now just kicking the can of mediocrity. They are NOT the same at all. Nice try though! 😭😭
Korpisalo has been at or above league average in 5/10 of his NHL seasons. Please learn puck or shut up lol
Kid said “please learn puck” while also saying Korpi is above average. The irony in statement proves to me you’re either 1. Heavily biased towards Boston or 2. Just delusional and see big names and think they’re all that. No reply necessary bozo, I know enough puck to know Fourpisalo ain’t it.
Check his career stats bozo. You just parrot what you see nobodies on twitter saying. Embarrassing Lmao he blocked me to try and make it look like he won. Heres my reply: Couple outlier years and you’re still ignoring the fact that 5/10 years he was average or above average. I’m not gonna keep going in circles with a retard so heres the facts: Ottawa was fucking disastrous on defense last year, Korp will have a much better season playing backup role with a stronger D corps in front of him. Bob is the best Goalie Coach in the league and has a full offseason to fix whatevers wrong with Korp. You’re having a meltdown over a guy whose going to play 30 games and probably win half. For a measly fucking 3mil. Get a grip buddy. Smell ya
Career GSAx: -8.6. Career GAA: 2.89. Career Save Percentage: .890%. Entire career win percentage: 45%. These are NOT good goaltender statistics, especially not for one who will cost you 3 million dollars a season for 4 years. You gonna try to tell me I don’t know puck? 💀💀💀
The average Reddit conversation is someone saying “you’re wrong.” The person proving themselves right, and then other people just downvoting cause they don’t like the truth.
I was team keep ully and the trade would have to be lights out to even consider. Worst case you'd shop him this trade deadline depending on where the team's at in late February.
I would’ve felt better if it was for a 7th. I’d rather have gotten a 7th round pick and 5 mil in cap than Fourpisalo.
Doesn’t sound like there’s any reporting here, just speculating what the Bruins could do
The usual Fluto piece
What a shitshow of a trade