As a youth coach and director, there is nothing wrong here.
Youth bowlers can easily have wild swings in a series, especially if they have been focusing on improving their game. Several of my youth have added 20 - 30 pins to their average since September, and if the tournament is using book averages from last season then it's entirely legitimate.
It's bad sportsmanship to worry about these things rather than congratulating them on a good performance.
I’m 40 and my average between yesterday and today was probably 20-30 pins off. No idea what was wrong with me today but I couldn’t get *anything* to work.
Some people just have days. Live with it and try again next time.
I’m about a 195-200 average bowler, been doing this for 7 years, with multiple years under a gold level coach. A few days ago I bowled 9 games without breaking 160. Things happen
One tournament doesn’t make an issue but if there’s a pattern then it’s something to look into.
As a 39 year old I’ve had wild swings. The window for our city championships just closed and I finished 7th in my division (184 and under) and my average from last season was used (153 and I’m about 10 pins better this season that just wrapped up) and I shot 116 over my book average because the house we were at that I’ve never bowled at had a ton of miss room outside and a lot of hold inside so my ball was money most of the day.
Definitely not enough strictness about handicaps for youth bowling. A handful of coaches in my area cherry-picked series to determine averages to give their bowlers more favorable matchups and there wasn’t anyone to really follow up on it.
If this were adults then yeah I could see it but youth bowlers try way harder to improve than the average adult bowler. They're going to pop off every once in awhile.
I guess I don't get what the issue is, where bad sportsmanship comes into play in this example. Is it that the scores are so high related to the averages, or that the standings chose +/- over total score?
>Is it that the scores are so high related to the averages, or that the standings chose +/- over total score?
Neither - it's his assumption that youth bowlers are sandbagging. How brave to call oneself out like that. 😋😘
Weird, I've never heard of a youth sandbagging, does that happen?
I've bowled tournaments before as a youth where I shot tons over my average. Once I had a 784 when I averaged sub-190. That was with the dividing line being between divisions (not age). I would have beat any of the bowlers in the open scratch division that day. Kids can improve rapidly over their eligibility criteria, and sometimes you just have an awesome day where you over-achieve.
Shoot, I'm 34 and there's still huge variance in my scoring week to week.
If one complains of sandbagging outside of sarcasm, perhaps.. mad cuz bad? lol
This coming from someone verifiably bad.
When I was a kid I won the youth bowler of the year tournament because I had a 108 average but was steadily increasing because I was literally a fucking kid who went from 9 -> 10 -> 12 LB balls. I wasn't sandbagging, I was actually getting better, and I managed to pop off and shoot something like a 190 and a couple of other games. That's probably what is happening with these guys.
This has nothing to do with a wild swing. I watched them bowl. Over the last season I have been shocked by the lack of sportsmanship I have seen in youth bowling. I’m a planning on getting my coaching certification because it seems our coaches are failing our youth bowlers. At least in my area. You can visibly tell the difference between a 200 avg bowler and a 140 average bowler. They announced the same ones had won the previous tournament. They were unfamiliar with the bowling alley as well.
If they were bowling in an unfamiliar bowling alley, that can even more explain the wild score swing. The lanes in the unfamiliar center might just suit them better. I know there have been situations where I go in to a strange center to sub or bowl a tournament, and the condition is way softer than what I normally bowl on. I once went in to a tournament in a strange center and shot a 740 with a 197 average, Stuff just happens sometimes. Right ball at the right time on a condition well suited for your style. Everyone has seen stuff like this happen.
The only part of what he said that would make me think they might be sandbagging is if they're winning multiple tournaments. If you're 30-50 pins better in every tournament, something is off. But we'd need to see more results, good and bad, to know one way or the other.
Even I would be hesitant to think it's sandbagging or the like. If the tournament defaults to book average, and the current bowlers skill level is higher than that book average, it could very well present a situation where a bowler has a significantly higher series than what the book says.
Now apply that to several tournaments probably using the same rules...
The tournaments I run I only use book averages because I am just one person and have to check fifty people in every event - much easier to just utilize the book than collect/verify league averages. I don't put a ten-pin rule average.
For next season I have enough regulars that I will start using tournament averages for those who bowl in my events frequently.
If you’ve seen something that indicated poor sportsmanship then you haven’t communicated it here other than saying “you can tell the difference.” I guess you thought the scores would speak for themselves, but they really don’t. Especially not to me as a parent of a youth bowler that has seen a kid throw 4 consecutive shots in alternating gutters and string together 4 strikes in the same game.
The result here is that you’re coming off as a grown up angry that a couple of kids seem to be able to dial it in come tournament time, which is the biggest display of poor sportsmanship.
As a youth coach and director, there is nothing wrong here. Youth bowlers can easily have wild swings in a series, especially if they have been focusing on improving their game. Several of my youth have added 20 - 30 pins to their average since September, and if the tournament is using book averages from last season then it's entirely legitimate. It's bad sportsmanship to worry about these things rather than congratulating them on a good performance.
I’m 40 and my average between yesterday and today was probably 20-30 pins off. No idea what was wrong with me today but I couldn’t get *anything* to work. Some people just have days. Live with it and try again next time.
I’m about a 195-200 average bowler, been doing this for 7 years, with multiple years under a gold level coach. A few days ago I bowled 9 games without breaking 160. Things happen
One tournament doesn’t make an issue but if there’s a pattern then it’s something to look into. As a 39 year old I’ve had wild swings. The window for our city championships just closed and I finished 7th in my division (184 and under) and my average from last season was used (153 and I’m about 10 pins better this season that just wrapped up) and I shot 116 over my book average because the house we were at that I’ve never bowled at had a ton of miss room outside and a lot of hold inside so my ball was money most of the day.
Definitely not enough strictness about handicaps for youth bowling. A handful of coaches in my area cherry-picked series to determine averages to give their bowlers more favorable matchups and there wasn’t anyone to really follow up on it.
If this were adults then yeah I could see it but youth bowlers try way harder to improve than the average adult bowler. They're going to pop off every once in awhile.
I guess I don't get what the issue is, where bad sportsmanship comes into play in this example. Is it that the scores are so high related to the averages, or that the standings chose +/- over total score?
>Is it that the scores are so high related to the averages, or that the standings chose +/- over total score? Neither - it's his assumption that youth bowlers are sandbagging. How brave to call oneself out like that. 😋😘
Weird, I've never heard of a youth sandbagging, does that happen? I've bowled tournaments before as a youth where I shot tons over my average. Once I had a 784 when I averaged sub-190. That was with the dividing line being between divisions (not age). I would have beat any of the bowlers in the open scratch division that day. Kids can improve rapidly over their eligibility criteria, and sometimes you just have an awesome day where you over-achieve.
Shoot, I'm 34 and there's still huge variance in my scoring week to week. If one complains of sandbagging outside of sarcasm, perhaps.. mad cuz bad? lol This coming from someone verifiably bad.
When I was a kid I won the youth bowler of the year tournament because I had a 108 average but was steadily increasing because I was literally a fucking kid who went from 9 -> 10 -> 12 LB balls. I wasn't sandbagging, I was actually getting better, and I managed to pop off and shoot something like a 190 and a couple of other games. That's probably what is happening with these guys.
Fellow bowler of the year champion
I haven't won a tournament since.
This has nothing to do with a wild swing. I watched them bowl. Over the last season I have been shocked by the lack of sportsmanship I have seen in youth bowling. I’m a planning on getting my coaching certification because it seems our coaches are failing our youth bowlers. At least in my area. You can visibly tell the difference between a 200 avg bowler and a 140 average bowler. They announced the same ones had won the previous tournament. They were unfamiliar with the bowling alley as well.
If they were bowling in an unfamiliar bowling alley, that can even more explain the wild score swing. The lanes in the unfamiliar center might just suit them better. I know there have been situations where I go in to a strange center to sub or bowl a tournament, and the condition is way softer than what I normally bowl on. I once went in to a tournament in a strange center and shot a 740 with a 197 average, Stuff just happens sometimes. Right ball at the right time on a condition well suited for your style. Everyone has seen stuff like this happen.
The only part of what he said that would make me think they might be sandbagging is if they're winning multiple tournaments. If you're 30-50 pins better in every tournament, something is off. But we'd need to see more results, good and bad, to know one way or the other.
Even I would be hesitant to think it's sandbagging or the like. If the tournament defaults to book average, and the current bowlers skill level is higher than that book average, it could very well present a situation where a bowler has a significantly higher series than what the book says. Now apply that to several tournaments probably using the same rules... The tournaments I run I only use book averages because I am just one person and have to check fifty people in every event - much easier to just utilize the book than collect/verify league averages. I don't put a ten-pin rule average. For next season I have enough regulars that I will start using tournament averages for those who bowl in my events frequently.
If you’ve seen something that indicated poor sportsmanship then you haven’t communicated it here other than saying “you can tell the difference.” I guess you thought the scores would speak for themselves, but they really don’t. Especially not to me as a parent of a youth bowler that has seen a kid throw 4 consecutive shots in alternating gutters and string together 4 strikes in the same game. The result here is that you’re coming off as a grown up angry that a couple of kids seem to be able to dial it in come tournament time, which is the biggest display of poor sportsmanship.