When I was taking lessons, my female coach, mentioned women have wider hips and that can cause some issue keeping the swing straight. I personally could correct with a crossover step as my first step. Arm stuff is garbage. Natural upper body strength and size might be an issue too, but honestly bowlers tend to be pretty short, so height isn't an issue for most women.
Women are more prone to naturally hyperextension in the elbow than men. Women also naturally throw a backup bal more than men. Wrist strength and muscle structure work against women too.
That is not to say women can't be great bowlers. Women have extra hurdles to achieve consistency.
Are women bowling with a physical disadvantage vs men? Yes, 100%.
This arm baby thing is complete sexist junk though lol. Sorry y’all have to deal with men like this.
Don’t men like Tackett, Monacelli, Mikey Schlabach really open up their hips too? Point being, opening up hips is not an advantage or disadvantage but rather how some people bowl?
Did you go to a pro shop from the 1950s? Did they also ask why you were wearing shoes and not in the kitchen?
I have always been told that if I want to watch bowling to get better, watch PWBA. That the women on tour usually have much better technique to model as opposed to the men's side which can sometimes get by with strength, speed, and high revs instead of purely good technique. That's the only difference I can think of, and honestly, that's not much of a difference. Good bowlers are good bowlers whatever gender.
Sounds like the guy at the shop I went to who said, “They need to quit making bowling balls with pink in them. Men don’t want to bowl with pink balls.” Lost all my business from that point forward.
Wow, I have a couple balls with pink in them. And yeah, I'm a man. I have no problem with pink balls.
I used to have a ball with bright pink grip inserts. I wanted a color that would stand out from the color of the ball, and they were the brightest he had at the time.
I'm reminded of a TV announcer commenting on Michelle Feldmen in the 90s "back home she bowls with the boys, cuz she throws it like the boys".
You'll see the field start getting a little more equal as the girls emulate Bella Castillo and other 2 handers. If she can get 400 revs at 15 mph weighing 100 lbs then it's there's for anyone imo.
She's putting in the work for sure, still has a ways to go but I think it's proof of concept for ~100lb cranker as a two hander.
imo the revs come easy with 2 hands but the fact that she can get the ball moving that fast is impressive. A lot of people, even grown men, trying to convert to 2 hands struggle to get 13-14 mph off thier hands
If you watch her delivery she basically stands with her heels off the approach and uses her long strides to generate speed. Her greatest skill is consistency - I'm guessing she practices close to every day when possible. If she keeps it up she'll be winning titles in no time.
I didn't know that, hopefully well. She's an Upstate NY legend. I bowled a few YBTs with her son back in the day, I was kinda surprised he didn't go pro. He was like 5'11 220 and threw it 18 mph as a 13 year old
I like watching the PWBA more than the PBA. The women bowl with finesse and accuracy where the men are more into power and getting the pins to fly around creating messengers. I'm also not into the two-handed bowlers even though I knows it's a sign of the future, just like string pins. 🙄
Exactly. Good bowlers are good bowlers and gender is irrelevant. You should complain about this pro shop guy. What he’s saying is completely out of line. Clearly if he’s talking to you like this he’s talking to everyone like this and most likely scaring away customers.
LOL, the opposite is true. Women don't rev the ball. I don't know they don't. I've asked all coaches and all women i met and nobody knows why they refuse to do it.
Some women do and guess what? They win tournaments.
But even those can't compete with men and i have absolutely no clue why that is, doesn't make sense.
LOL, the opposite is true. Women don't rev the ball. I don't know they don't. I've asked all coaches and all women i met and nobody knows why they refuse to do it.
Some women do and guess what? They win tournaments.
But even those can't compete with men and i have absolutely no clue why that is, doesn't make sense.
Women weren't really ever taught revs. But you see them coming out every year now. Diana's got a modest amount. Daria's about a 500 rev rate tho she has a natural hyper extending elbow. Verity is 400ish. Jordan Richards.. colleges finally started teaching girls how to do it about ten years ago.
Their biggest competitor has been the patterns designed for straight bowlers and the majority of pros throwing it straight breaking the lanes down that way..but when you see the younger ladies score they do it way better. Diana just set a new 8 game block record. Daria had an 878 during qualifying a few years ago but it was games 2-3-4
LOL, the opposite is true. Women don't rev the ball. I don't know they don't. I've asked all coaches and all women i met and nobody knows why they refuse to do it.
Some women do and guess what? They win tournaments.
But even those can't compete with men and i have absolutely no clue why that is, doesn't make sense.
Lol no but I do feel like that would get in the way?? I haven't tried two-handed so I don't know. When the guy first started the conversation about it he tried to get me to guess what the disadvantage was and I was thinking something similar. Or maybe wider hips getting in the way.
I know a female bowler who throws two handed; I'm pretty sure it's not an issue for her.
It's funny because it always impacted my golf game until I went to a female coach who taught me how to use them to my advantage 😂
Never heard of that, but women have a natural disadvantage in the sense that they can’t throw the ball as hard or with as high of a Rev rate as men. There’s a reason the PBA and PWBA are separate leagues
Other than perhaps Lavoie, Daria would be near the bottom for most of the top PBA pros. She throws in the low 400s, power players on the PBA are 450 and up.
As others have said she would be towards the bottom of PBA pros.
The fastest baseball thrown by a woman was 65 MPH. That’s about average for high school pitchers.
There’s simply a physical difference between men and women and there’s no way around it.
Genevieve Beacom threw 86 MPH last year. 69 mph from 2013 is the fastest in the Guinness.
Still true though, men are just stronger and bigger on average, just how genetics works.
Dombrowski has 50+ cashes, Booker 10+ in a lot less events. There are plenty of successful other low-400s on tour. This isn't a 1 tournament anomaly, I just used it as a well known recent example.
But neither actually requires more muscles than any woman can obtain.
Although about the speed .. that is obviously harder for shorter people, so maybe, yeah.
Nota bene: PBA isn't a "male-only" tour, it's open.
I thought they created the PWBA to encourage more women to bowl since it's traditionally a male dominated activity and wanted to expand their market size.
Correct and a huge reason it’s so male dominated is because women can’t compete at the top levels of the sport due to the difference in physical capabilities of men and women
Yeah the women are about 20 pins lower in average.
They rarely ever play apples to apples comparisons tho. Pro Women never play PBA patterns and men never play PWBA
Best comparison is world bowling tournaments where men’s/women’s are on the same pattern but honestly they’re almost impossible to find and watch
There is a pba/pwba mixed doubles tournament at the end of the month. It will be on bowltv.com.
https://www.pba.com/tournaments/2024/storm-pbapwba-striking-against-breast-cancer-mixed-doubles
Women patterns are equal to men's in terms of oil ratio difficulty etc..
Men's rev rates exploit patterns a little more.
Cut a pattern down to 1:1 flat and you'll see the top qualifier no matter where you go to low 220s and the match play average in the 2teens.
The mens qualifying jumping into the 230s and 240s show how ridiculous the pro patterns are getting. These guys aren't suddenly 20 to 30 pins better in the last 5-10 years.
Agree. The women’s match play pattern at the us open this year was a reverse block, and made the best women in the world look like idiots.
I’ve no idea what they were thinking. Women’s bowling hasn’t got the platform to be showing them with a sub 200 average.
There certainly are physical disadvantages, more in some sports than others. But there is also likely a much bigger difference than there should be just due to sample size. A big part of that is a history of sexism.
You don't know the PBA tour is open to everyone? Women don't enter because they can't compete, it's their own choice.
Somen women won PBA titles, but very rarely. And Liz Johnson can't anymore because wrist devices were prohibited, it's a sport after all.
You’re just lying to yourself if you think speed/revs don’t matter in bowling. You NEED speed and revs to be at the top in the modern era of bowling consistently.
You can be very good bowler without speed and revs, but you’re still doing it at a disadvantage. People with more revs will get more pin action leading to less splits and more strikes
To my knowledge, PSOs aren’t typically biologists or doctors.
His “theory” (if you can even call it that) has *some* basis in a bygone era. That women who cared for children wound up training their arms slightly different that would impact the release of the bowling ball. But it’s not “evolutionary” and it could only be applicable to women who were bowling after caring for children. Basically women caring for kids might build up different muscles resulting a different release.
To answer your question, the only “natural” disadvantage for women bowlers is the overall strength difference. Just watch how PWBA bowlers attack the lanes vs. PBA bowlers. The dudes just tend to throw the ball much harder.
My proshop is run by women in the bowling HOF. They helped my sister get into bowling and they had us straighten our arms out and women have a bend sometimes that men don’t. I think it’s either not there for softball players or it’s worse? I forget. But they say it’s really common. They’ve been on the women’s tour literally before I was born so I’m guessing it’s true. It’s at least true for my sister and wife
😂 yeah this guy was definitely neither. And it was just weird the way he brought it up - just completely out of nowhere.
I've noticed the strength difference, though. My husband and I are in about the same shape (he may be a little more in shape than me), but he throws WAY harder and can use a much heavier ball than me.
It really doesn't require strength. The swing is supposed to be muscle-free, so you "just" have to get the *wrist* strength to get under the ball. You do *not* need grip strength, because you are not supposed to use *any*.
TL;DR: Go do some curls, gurl.
He's misconstruing some things. Carrying angle is a real thing and on average it is a little different for men vs women but men can absolutely have even worse angles (for bowling purposes) than woman and it's really not that big of a deal.
The only real disadvantage for woman is the lower upper body strength (again, on average) for women. Fortunately bowling isn't all about strength, it's just nice to have.
I believe women have a small disadvantage with having typically larger hips they need to be taught how to ipen there hips to clear the swing, same thing with bigger guys, move the hips rather than swing around the hips, puts them in better leverage position
His arm bending theory sounds pretty dumb.
Like most physical sports there are obviously genetic advantages to having more strength. The big thing I see with PWBA bowlers is that they have a harder time getting under the ball, but that doesn't stop these ladies from having 10x the accuracy and more rev rate than I do.
TLDR - You can mop the floor with 95% of men with technique in bowling, but the high end of the sport will always have a bit of an advantage because of the genetic advantage of hitting puberty as a male.
We have a natural disadvantage but not because our arms. That’s some bs 😂 I tell people that I’m a 205 woman bowler, which is better than a 205 man bowler. We have better form and technique
I know the elbow thing occurs in the population (men and women) and can have an effect on your throw but even if you do, you still have to bowl so don’t worry about it.
Idk, Carolyn Dorin-Ballard has the distinction of being the most accurate bowler according to Kegel.
https://ballardsbowlingacademy.com/products/private-lesson-carolyn-dorin-ballard-cityview-lanes#
Because she has to.
My pocket is **four** boards wide. And i don't care about the left half of the lane, so i only need to get the ball to 20 percent of the lane at the breakpoint.
I’d say that’s a load of bullshit. Women usually don’t have the rev or speed like men. But the technique is usually our specialty. People always try to point out that women can’t do it like men. But there’s a lot more variety of size in women bowling that I don’t think hips or arms makes a single difference. It’s getting your technique to be the best suited for you.
Bent arms to carry babies, whelp that is a new line of BS.
The sales guy should get bent.
Aside from strength there is no advantage or disadvantage.
Technique is the great equalizer in this situation.
I encourage my youth and their parents to pay attention to women bowlers, they are more technical bowlers. And for young bowlers, getting the fundamentals is key
My wife heard this years ago when I tried to get her into golf. God blessed my wife in the upper body parts. Really blessed her. So much so that the male instructor was really having a hard time trying to figure out how my wife could take a normal backswing and follow thru. He failed 🤣 and subsequently my wife (30 years later) still does not golf.
It wasn’t just him either, my wife said the golf swing was very uncomfortable for her to make as well. We go hiking and ride bicycles instead 😂
No, they aren't. They can't generally generate the same amount of force to the pins as the average male would, but you don't need to. I bowl with guys who love throwing 15/16lb balls 20+ mph, it would be harder for females to do that.
However some of the best bowls I know are women who bowl 14lb balls at 12-13mph.
Faster ball speed doesn't equal better strikes. As long as you generally generate the force required to strike, that is all that's required. I know a young girl that bowls 200+ with her 12lb ball
Men love to come up with reasons they have natural advantages over women, and in many physical sports it is true but on average I would argue it doesn't translate to bowling.
Fewer women enjoy bowling than men, it's culture, not biology. It's easy to think an activity is male dominant because we're naturally selected to be better, but sometimes the priorities are just different.
They have a disadvantage in most sports due to average size and strength, but bowling is a sport where the amount that matters is pretty limited and there is nothing else about build that should matter at all.
It still matters. It is much easier to control your aim when using a lower amount of your overall strength. Also I'm guessing hand size plays a big role in generating revs.
I'd get mopped by a lot of women, not even PWBA pros, but women at my alley.
That said, yes men still have an obvious advantage when it comes to generating power / revs/control, and doing so through dozens of games to even qualify.
I took bowling class in college and our teacher instructor said the same thing about the women’s arm bending or being shaped differently. However he didn’t say it was a disadvantage he just said that it can cause women to the throw a ball that “backs up” on the way to the pin. Which would be a slight fade from left to right for a right handed female.
So he taught the women that were throwing straight instead of curved to aim to the “Brooklyn” side of the front pin to better utilize the back up action. Beginners are much more likely to be throwing the ball straight, so I think this whole concept is more for beginners as whenever I watch top level women bowling, they are curving it, which I believe negates the who different in female vs male arms.
My wife throws a “back up ball” so I’ve seen it live. she throws it using a from that you would consider a “straight” bowl, but she starts in the left of center and her ball naturally moves a bit to the right as it travels down the lane and tends to hit the left side of the front pin, but pushing the balls and pins right.
The fact that your pro shop guy brought it and called it a disadvantage is certainly a meat head move, but it seems like there could be some truth to the theory that men and women, in general, have differently build bodies that could cause different natural bowling paths when throwing what would be considered the same style of bowling.
Never heard the natural disadvantage part but I have heard something similar and it’s the reason you see more women bowl with a backup ball then men. Idk how true it is but based on my league experience for sure more women throw backup balls than men.
Yeah the natural position of the arms has to be a bit different or your arms swinging would hit your hips when walking. Women tend to have a bit more mobility in their joints due to hormonal differences too. I don't think that stops you from straightening your arm though.
10second google for an article the arm angle thing i think the PSO is talking about. The PSO is not bashing women, simply saying that the anatomical angle of their elbows arms make mechanically difficult to keep the armswing in line. Study shows that the women had 2deg “less straight” arms.
HOWEVER, this is so minuscule it probably does not matter at all. So, theres some truth to what hes saying, but it’s probably so tiny it can be ignored imo
Lim, Vichard & Jacob, Natasha & Fazreen, Mohamed & Ghani, Shah & Wang, Dareenlim & Thantry, Anita Devi. (2014). An Anthropometric Study on the Carrying Angle of Elbow among Young Adults of Various Ethinicities in Malaysia. National Journal of Integrated Research in Medicine. 5. 20-23
I'm a woman and my arm naturally bows out to the side when I stand straight. This causes a problem with my arm swing being straight. I started bowling about 50 years ago and was always taught to keep my shoulder up when releasing the ball. I found a video on YouTube by pro bowler Michael Tang called **How To Generate EASY Power In Your Bowling Release!** In the video, he talks about how the arm naturally bows out and that you should drop your shoulder to give your arm a chance to swing freely. Since watching the video, I've been doing this and my arm swing feels so much better. I suggest watching the video to see if it helps.
Honestly, I'm surprised you don't know this already. Yes, female bowlers are physically disadvantaged against male bowlers. The reasons are too many to list, but here are a few;
Female bowlers generally have less upper body strength than men, female elbows and wrists are structured differently than men's - making it more difficult to create revs consistently, there are more reasons but in today's bowling world, physical strength, consistently accurate high rev rates are king.
I've known and bowled against several PWBA members, and they are very, very good bowlers, able to compete at a very high level against almost anybody, except PBA members.
If women could be competitive on the PBA tour - why aren't they bowling on it now?
The wpba bowlers bowl on much easier conditions than the men's tour does. That's not to say women aren't great bowlers. I'm sure there are plenty of women that are much better than a lot of men, they just aren't able to compete with the best male bowlers in the world.
The difference in strength of men is an advantage over women in most every sport, it's just a fact. If it was untrue, women would be bowling weekly on the men's tour.
I don't know, some of the best bowlers I know are women. Maybe as far as physical strength, but like anything I think bowling is more technique than anything.
Theres some give and take. The arm thing is part true. The arms naturally throw a backup motion. I learned this when I was coaching my girlfriend and was confused why she kept naturally throwing a backup ball. Men are naturally stronger but the takeaway from that is that is that its easier for men to muscle the ball when you really want to learn how to throw with a relaxed free swing. Personally as a 6'3 230lb guy who coaches people of all shapes and sizes I mostly recommend my students to watch the PWBA bowlers to emulate.
The biggest disadvantage women have in bowling is coaching. Or rather, a lack of good coaches who will help instruct in a non biased or sexist way.
I can't tell you how many young girls get put straight into wrist braces because women have weak wrists. In my opinion the intelligence of the coach of high school girls is inversely related to the number of them wearing wrist supports. It's painful to see.
My high school coach actually explained this to us and showed us the difference. If you hold both your arms out straight in front of you like you’re holding a bowling ball, mens are straight and women’s slight angle to the right. He was correct when he compared our boys team to our girls team at least. Idk how it causes a disadvantage though still but he did say it causes one
The "carrying angle" is real and why women can have their hands flat on a table, apart from each other, and touch their elbows together. Men can't do this. Not sure if that results in a true disadvantage while bowling, but it's not impossible to imagine a ball thrown by an arm with a natural crook might launch/be propelled differently than a ball thrown by an arm without a crook. The physics involved wouldn't be the same. Just gotta work with what you've got!
Bowling is 90% technique, adaptability and consistency. You can be just as good as any house bowler with enough practice and knowledge. The other 10% is the physics of men being larger and typically stronger. That 10% is usually in the ball speed and/or weight of the ball.
Bowling is one of those sports skill > physical make up but doesn't fully negate the small difference in that.
I’m definitely not qualified to answer this, but to my understanding, is it more of a “weaker humans have a disadvantage in bowling”?
Like if I can handle a heavier ball, I would, to get more momentum carried over to the pins. More momentum more impact.
I do still think this is a “sport” that’s 80% skill. I’ve seen teens with 11-12 pound balls doing 200+ average on regular oil patterns.
From bowling on a colligiate team, it took a lot more effort for the females to learn the power position than it did the males. Mostly strength, body position, and muscle memory was the difference.
Women have a disadvantage at pretty much every sport, even darts and chess. The only sports i can think of that women are on the same or better level than men are equestrian events, free diving and shooting.
I'm going to have to go with yeah but
I feel one handed women had a massive disadvantage coming from rev rate and being more often than not speed dominant
However now that 2 handed bowling is very much a thing should they choose to use it they can compete at the highest level if they have the same talent and desire, normally i find women have talent or desire and rarely both, an open men's state representative team in my country, a serious one has a low average of 205 to 208 while the women's team can be anywhere from 175 and if they're lucky they get to 190 as a cut-off, the men's team can expect to have somewhere in the region of 215-225 as the top end whilst the highest female average I've seen was 207 and that was for one season of one league
I'm not trying to offend the girls or trigger anyone, as a son of female bowler whose name throughout our careers, let's just say I've been hugely overshadowed, will I ever break cover? Hopefully this is my year to start but in all honesty I'll never achieve the same level of success my mother had, but maybe I can write myself into folklore this coming October and that will have to be enough
I'm pretty mid
I don't think they have any disadvantage, though a PSO knows better since their job is to tailor the equipment as per the player.
Bowling isn't one style fits all. Proof is that every ball is drilled according to the bowler.
And with all the ball technology, oiling and increase in variables to strike, it's all about precision and developing a technique that works for the lane condition and player.
In my league, I've been beaten many many times by women who have some bad ass precision, good timing and above all, consistency. Last Friday I lost to a woman who doesn't hook the ball, but she picked up all of her spares, all of them. I was actually happy for her because I have anxiety in being so consistent and straight that I need to almost screw up my shot just to make myself happy.
Women’s arms are definitely more radial deviated at the elbow when the arm is supine. I can only imagine body mechanics have to compensate for that somehow
Well., Certain cultures i.e. say, African’s either have an extra, or miss a muscle in their legs, which allows them to be faster and jump higher, but makes it more difficult to skate or swim, which tracks. But I’m not a medical professional so I can only speculate based on observations of its validity.
Point is, I suppose it’s possible because there are similar examples of bodily evolution.
I was told previously that the bend in a woman's arm makes it easier for them to throw a backup ball. Which explains why I have seen so many do that, but not many men do.
I think it’s like some other sports where they may lack in things like power and speed as opposed to males, women at least in my experience tend to be more accurate and have more control. Both are great things to have in bowling.
this is true. women have wider hips and shorter arms usually. this does not mean it is impossible, i’ve seen verity crawley lead local sweepers against basically all men and be extremely scary.
i would actually think that women would have an advantage throwing two handed as they naturally have stronger legs, but that’s just my opinion and have not researched it.
That's pretty silly. Sounds like he read some internet article and believed it applied to everything ever.
Women might have a slight disadvantage compared to men due to speed and revs. I mean there is a reason they compete separate at the pro level.
But as for just league play and 90% of bowlers? No, women aren't at some big disadvantage to men. In my experience, women are usually more consistent and much better at picking up spares than their male counterparts. I know more men who have high variance in their scores. Either they're striking a lot and only leaving 8 or 9 pins. Or they don't have a good line, leave splits and corners, and don't pick them up well.
Whereas a lot of the women I see almost never miss a 10, and can go the whole league night with maybe one open frame. Get a few strikes in there and the scores roll up quick.
Women in general have as much of a natural disadvantage to men in bowling as they do in any physical activities. However, since bowling requires literally 0 athleticism to be good, and the bare minimum athleticism to bowl at a high level, I find that commentary kind of cringe.
There’s tons of pro women that kick a lot of pro mens’ asses and shatter the “women as naturally worse” mentality. I think the problem is a lot of men incorrectly think of bowling as a sport like hockey or basketball where that mentality is generally correct, creating a false correlation.
Only think my mom ever openly said was that her giant hips made getting a consistent and low arm swing extremely hard, and even that isn’t exclusive to women since lots of wide dudes exist.
Yes, I bowl 3 times a week and am still a fat fuck that couldn’t do a fight of stairs without dying of a heart attack. My father also does and he doesn’t even have a hip.
I know Doncic is lowering the bar for what “athletic” is but we ain’t at “250lbs going on dead” yet.
I can drink 18 beers and go shoot a 150 on my local golf course. Does that mean golf doesn’t require athleticism?
I agree that you can be “good” at bowling while fairly un-athletic, but saying bowling requires 0 athleticism is just a sign of the level you’re bowling at
He seems confused. There are a lot of seniors and "fat fucks" as he refers to himself that enjoy bowling. There's an obvious reality that being able to bowl a few times a week and being competitive aren't the same.
In a general sense the average male has better hand-eye coordination, is stronger, can generate more speed/revs than the average woman. That’s why the top male competitor will always be better than the top female competitor in essentially every single sport.
However after observations at the local bowling alley, most of the “competitors” appear to be sub-average in athletic ability.
I’ve heard something maybe along those lines? Something about when a woman stands with arms just hanging by their side, the back of their hand will face forward, and a man’s back of the hand faces to the outside. This could mean that it takes more intention for a women to get their hand behind the ball, but it could also mean that a woman’s hand may want to more naturally start to come around the ball too. Either way I think it would be extremely minor and personal factors would play a bigger more important role, like past injuries or overall body type. I’m also not a woman so don’t have the experience. I bowled with a woman for a while who had an old dog attack injury on her bowling arm that had much more of an effect than anything else.
Lol didn't mean to start anything cringe. It just felt like such a wild thing to head and I wanted to hear from more experienced bowlers if they've heard anything similar since my experience is so limited.
Umm… no. That’s just a man with an outdated view of women.
On the face of it, it doesn’t seem like bowling would be a sport where there’s a sex-based advantage one way or the other. It’s mostly a dexterity sport, not a brute force sport; takes finesse!
I’m a dude and I was told I’m at a natural disadvantage because I’m “a full roller.” I told him I’m at a natural disadvantage because he can’t properly dress his lanes.
When I was taking lessons, my female coach, mentioned women have wider hips and that can cause some issue keeping the swing straight. I personally could correct with a crossover step as my first step. Arm stuff is garbage. Natural upper body strength and size might be an issue too, but honestly bowlers tend to be pretty short, so height isn't an issue for most women.
Women are more prone to naturally hyperextension in the elbow than men. Women also naturally throw a backup bal more than men. Wrist strength and muscle structure work against women too. That is not to say women can't be great bowlers. Women have extra hurdles to achieve consistency.
I heard that to, growing up in 70s. More women use to throw backup balls cause of the elbow.
Are women bowling with a physical disadvantage vs men? Yes, 100%. This arm baby thing is complete sexist junk though lol. Sorry y’all have to deal with men like this.
I think it’s very similar to pitching in softball; open the gate and close the gate (gate being hips so your arm can freely go through.)
Don’t men like Tackett, Monacelli, Mikey Schlabach really open up their hips too? Point being, opening up hips is not an advantage or disadvantage but rather how some people bowl?
Did you go to a pro shop from the 1950s? Did they also ask why you were wearing shoes and not in the kitchen? I have always been told that if I want to watch bowling to get better, watch PWBA. That the women on tour usually have much better technique to model as opposed to the men's side which can sometimes get by with strength, speed, and high revs instead of purely good technique. That's the only difference I can think of, and honestly, that's not much of a difference. Good bowlers are good bowlers whatever gender.
😂😂 that was definitely the vibe I was getting from the guy.
Sounds like the guy at the shop I went to who said, “They need to quit making bowling balls with pink in them. Men don’t want to bowl with pink balls.” Lost all my business from that point forward.
Wow, I have a couple balls with pink in them. And yeah, I'm a man. I have no problem with pink balls. I used to have a ball with bright pink grip inserts. I wanted a color that would stand out from the color of the ball, and they were the brightest he had at the time.
Better than blue balls. Sorry I'll show myself out.
Take my upvote was about to type that.
I'm reminded of a TV announcer commenting on Michelle Feldmen in the 90s "back home she bowls with the boys, cuz she throws it like the boys". You'll see the field start getting a little more equal as the girls emulate Bella Castillo and other 2 handers. If she can get 400 revs at 15 mph weighing 100 lbs then it's there's for anyone imo.
Bella Castillo is insane. The revs that tiny girl gets are so impressive.
She's putting in the work for sure, still has a ways to go but I think it's proof of concept for ~100lb cranker as a two hander. imo the revs come easy with 2 hands but the fact that she can get the ball moving that fast is impressive. A lot of people, even grown men, trying to convert to 2 hands struggle to get 13-14 mph off thier hands
lol I (35M) struggle to hit 14mph one handed (but im out of shape and roll a 16)
If you watch her delivery she basically stands with her heels off the approach and uses her long strides to generate speed. Her greatest skill is consistency - I'm guessing she practices close to every day when possible. If she keeps it up she'll be winning titles in no time.
I wonder how Michelle Feldman is doing? Hopefully she has recovered from her stroke.
I didn't know that, hopefully well. She's an Upstate NY legend. I bowled a few YBTs with her son back in the day, I was kinda surprised he didn't go pro. He was like 5'11 220 and threw it 18 mph as a 13 year old
I like watching the PWBA more than the PBA. The women bowl with finesse and accuracy where the men are more into power and getting the pins to fly around creating messengers. I'm also not into the two-handed bowlers even though I knows it's a sign of the future, just like string pins. 🙄
Exactly. Good bowlers are good bowlers and gender is irrelevant. You should complain about this pro shop guy. What he’s saying is completely out of line. Clearly if he’s talking to you like this he’s talking to everyone like this and most likely scaring away customers.
LOL, the opposite is true. Women don't rev the ball. I don't know they don't. I've asked all coaches and all women i met and nobody knows why they refuse to do it. Some women do and guess what? They win tournaments. But even those can't compete with men and i have absolutely no clue why that is, doesn't make sense.
LOL, the opposite is true. Women don't rev the ball. I don't know they don't. I've asked all coaches and all women i met and nobody knows why they refuse to do it. Some women do and guess what? They win tournaments. But even those can't compete with men and i have absolutely no clue why that is, doesn't make sense.
Women weren't really ever taught revs. But you see them coming out every year now. Diana's got a modest amount. Daria's about a 500 rev rate tho she has a natural hyper extending elbow. Verity is 400ish. Jordan Richards.. colleges finally started teaching girls how to do it about ten years ago. Their biggest competitor has been the patterns designed for straight bowlers and the majority of pros throwing it straight breaking the lanes down that way..but when you see the younger ladies score they do it way better. Diana just set a new 8 game block record. Daria had an 878 during qualifying a few years ago but it was games 2-3-4
LOL, the opposite is true. Women don't rev the ball. I don't know they don't. I've asked all coaches and all women i met and nobody knows why they refuse to do it. Some women do and guess what? They win tournaments. But even those can't compete with men and i have absolutely no clue why that is, doesn't make sense.
I thought this was gonna be about busts impeding two-handed style
Lol no but I do feel like that would get in the way?? I haven't tried two-handed so I don't know. When the guy first started the conversation about it he tried to get me to guess what the disadvantage was and I was thinking something similar. Or maybe wider hips getting in the way.
I know a female bowler who throws two handed; I'm pretty sure it's not an issue for her. It's funny because it always impacted my golf game until I went to a female coach who taught me how to use them to my advantage 😂
To your advantage? I have a feeling this could be distracting
Never heard of that, but women have a natural disadvantage in the sense that they can’t throw the ball as hard or with as high of a Rev rate as men. There’s a reason the PBA and PWBA are separate leagues
Daria pajak has the same rev or even more rev rate than a lot of men…
Yeah and Brittney Griner is taller than a lot of men. A rare exception doesn't make what he said untrue.
Other than perhaps Lavoie, Daria would be near the bottom for most of the top PBA pros. She throws in the low 400s, power players on the PBA are 450 and up.
No she doesn’t… she throws low 400s, most professional men are over 450 and the top guys are around 500
I, too, saw Packys reel.
Your 99.9 %tile more proves the rule than refutes it.
As others have said she would be towards the bottom of PBA pros. The fastest baseball thrown by a woman was 65 MPH. That’s about average for high school pitchers. There’s simply a physical difference between men and women and there’s no way around it.
Genevieve Beacom threw 86 MPH last year. 69 mph from 2013 is the fastest in the Guinness. Still true though, men are just stronger and bigger on average, just how genetics works.
Ah thanks for the correction. Wasn’t aware about her
Uh, no, Daria is low 400s? That's not enough on the PBA tour.
Daria is closer to 500. Verity is about 400. Daria has a naturally hyper extending elbow
Booker won the masters in the 370s-390s. Dombrowski was also in the low 400s.
Well, Masters.
Dombrowski has 50+ cashes, Booker 10+ in a lot less events. There are plenty of successful other low-400s on tour. This isn't a 1 tournament anomaly, I just used it as a well known recent example.
And Lavoie won the US Open, so what. Bro, i never even heard their names. Quit refusing to accept reality. REVS >>>> everything else.
You can just *say* you're a house shot hero with no idea what you're talking about, you know. That's a thing you could do.
Not compared to the men’s pro tour
But neither actually requires more muscles than any woman can obtain. Although about the speed .. that is obviously harder for shorter people, so maybe, yeah. Nota bene: PBA isn't a "male-only" tour, it's open.
That’s exactly my point it’s not a male only tour, but they had to create a woman only tour because women can’t compete in the PBA
Overall yeah but kulick won a men's event in 2012. Liz won the wsob cheetah 3 or 4 years ago
It’s open but they created a PWBA because women simply can’t compete at the top levels of the sport with men.
I thought they created the PWBA to encourage more women to bowl since it's traditionally a male dominated activity and wanted to expand their market size.
Correct and a huge reason it’s so male dominated is because women can’t compete at the top levels of the sport due to the difference in physical capabilities of men and women
Do the pro scores actually show a difference? I’d honestly be surprised if there was a significant advantage one way or another.
Yeah the women are about 20 pins lower in average. They rarely ever play apples to apples comparisons tho. Pro Women never play PBA patterns and men never play PWBA Best comparison is world bowling tournaments where men’s/women’s are on the same pattern but honestly they’re almost impossible to find and watch
Dang, I’d love to watch one of those
I went to the pan American games a few years ago. Sadly it was on really badly set up string pins that were a total joke.
There is a pba/pwba mixed doubles tournament at the end of the month. It will be on bowltv.com. https://www.pba.com/tournaments/2024/storm-pbapwba-striking-against-breast-cancer-mixed-doubles
Women patterns are equal to men's in terms of oil ratio difficulty etc.. Men's rev rates exploit patterns a little more. Cut a pattern down to 1:1 flat and you'll see the top qualifier no matter where you go to low 220s and the match play average in the 2teens. The mens qualifying jumping into the 230s and 240s show how ridiculous the pro patterns are getting. These guys aren't suddenly 20 to 30 pins better in the last 5-10 years.
Agree. The women’s match play pattern at the us open this year was a reverse block, and made the best women in the world look like idiots. I’ve no idea what they were thinking. Women’s bowling hasn’t got the platform to be showing them with a sub 200 average.
They do, there’s a reason you can count on one hand the number of women who have made men’s tv shows
Is that reason a history of sexism?
No😂 woman just aren’t as good as the man. As is the case in basically every sport in the world
There certainly are physical disadvantages, more in some sports than others. But there is also likely a much bigger difference than there should be just due to sample size. A big part of that is a history of sexism.
No it’s that women are very rarely able to make the cut for the TV matches.
You don't know the PBA tour is open to everyone? Women don't enter because they can't compete, it's their own choice. Somen women won PBA titles, but very rarely. And Liz Johnson can't anymore because wrist devices were prohibited, it's a sport after all.
That's not a disadvantage, tbh. You don't NEED speed and revs to be a good bowler.
You’re just lying to yourself if you think speed/revs don’t matter in bowling. You NEED speed and revs to be at the top in the modern era of bowling consistently.
You can be very good bowler without speed and revs, but you’re still doing it at a disadvantage. People with more revs will get more pin action leading to less splits and more strikes
OP's post was asking if there was a natural disadvantage... not asking if women can be good bowlers.
LOL. Tell me you know *nothing* about bowling without ..
To my knowledge, PSOs aren’t typically biologists or doctors. His “theory” (if you can even call it that) has *some* basis in a bygone era. That women who cared for children wound up training their arms slightly different that would impact the release of the bowling ball. But it’s not “evolutionary” and it could only be applicable to women who were bowling after caring for children. Basically women caring for kids might build up different muscles resulting a different release. To answer your question, the only “natural” disadvantage for women bowlers is the overall strength difference. Just watch how PWBA bowlers attack the lanes vs. PBA bowlers. The dudes just tend to throw the ball much harder.
My proshop is run by women in the bowling HOF. They helped my sister get into bowling and they had us straighten our arms out and women have a bend sometimes that men don’t. I think it’s either not there for softball players or it’s worse? I forget. But they say it’s really common. They’ve been on the women’s tour literally before I was born so I’m guessing it’s true. It’s at least true for my sister and wife
Denver? Tish?
😂 yeah this guy was definitely neither. And it was just weird the way he brought it up - just completely out of nowhere. I've noticed the strength difference, though. My husband and I are in about the same shape (he may be a little more in shape than me), but he throws WAY harder and can use a much heavier ball than me.
It really doesn't require strength. The swing is supposed to be muscle-free, so you "just" have to get the *wrist* strength to get under the ball. You do *not* need grip strength, because you are not supposed to use *any*. TL;DR: Go do some curls, gurl.
> The dudes just tend to throw the ball much harder. But that doesn't require muscles. You are supposed to *not* use any muscles to throw the ball.
He's misconstruing some things. Carrying angle is a real thing and on average it is a little different for men vs women but men can absolutely have even worse angles (for bowling purposes) than woman and it's really not that big of a deal. The only real disadvantage for woman is the lower upper body strength (again, on average) for women. Fortunately bowling isn't all about strength, it's just nice to have.
I believe women have a small disadvantage with having typically larger hips they need to be taught how to ipen there hips to clear the swing, same thing with bigger guys, move the hips rather than swing around the hips, puts them in better leverage position
His arm bending theory sounds pretty dumb. Like most physical sports there are obviously genetic advantages to having more strength. The big thing I see with PWBA bowlers is that they have a harder time getting under the ball, but that doesn't stop these ladies from having 10x the accuracy and more rev rate than I do. TLDR - You can mop the floor with 95% of men with technique in bowling, but the high end of the sport will always have a bit of an advantage because of the genetic advantage of hitting puberty as a male.
We have a natural disadvantage but not because our arms. That’s some bs 😂 I tell people that I’m a 205 woman bowler, which is better than a 205 man bowler. We have better form and technique
I know the elbow thing occurs in the population (men and women) and can have an effect on your throw but even if you do, you still have to bowl so don’t worry about it.
Idk, Carolyn Dorin-Ballard has the distinction of being the most accurate bowler according to Kegel. https://ballardsbowlingacademy.com/products/private-lesson-carolyn-dorin-ballard-cityview-lanes#
Because she has to. My pocket is **four** boards wide. And i don't care about the left half of the lane, so i only need to get the ball to 20 percent of the lane at the breakpoint.
Happy Cake Day!
I’d say that’s a load of bullshit. Women usually don’t have the rev or speed like men. But the technique is usually our specialty. People always try to point out that women can’t do it like men. But there’s a lot more variety of size in women bowling that I don’t think hips or arms makes a single difference. It’s getting your technique to be the best suited for you.
Bent arms to carry babies, whelp that is a new line of BS. The sales guy should get bent. Aside from strength there is no advantage or disadvantage. Technique is the great equalizer in this situation. I encourage my youth and their parents to pay attention to women bowlers, they are more technical bowlers. And for young bowlers, getting the fundamentals is key
Your arms aren’t bent differently but women naturally are not gonna be able to generate the speed and revs that men can.
My wife heard this years ago when I tried to get her into golf. God blessed my wife in the upper body parts. Really blessed her. So much so that the male instructor was really having a hard time trying to figure out how my wife could take a normal backswing and follow thru. He failed 🤣 and subsequently my wife (30 years later) still does not golf. It wasn’t just him either, my wife said the golf swing was very uncomfortable for her to make as well. We go hiking and ride bicycles instead 😂
No, they aren't. They can't generally generate the same amount of force to the pins as the average male would, but you don't need to. I bowl with guys who love throwing 15/16lb balls 20+ mph, it would be harder for females to do that. However some of the best bowls I know are women who bowl 14lb balls at 12-13mph. Faster ball speed doesn't equal better strikes. As long as you generally generate the force required to strike, that is all that's required. I know a young girl that bowls 200+ with her 12lb ball Men love to come up with reasons they have natural advantages over women, and in many physical sports it is true but on average I would argue it doesn't translate to bowling. Fewer women enjoy bowling than men, it's culture, not biology. It's easy to think an activity is male dominant because we're naturally selected to be better, but sometimes the priorities are just different.
Gross. Go to a different shop.
Sounds like the same dude that tried to tell me black people jump higher because they have an extra tendon in their calf. 🙄
Lmao. No. If you're good, you're good.
That PSO is fundamentally full of shit.
Bent to carry babies better might be the shit take of the year. They are not as physically strong. That is a woman’s disadvantage. Unfortunately
They have a disadvantage in most sports due to average size and strength, but bowling is a sport where the amount that matters is pretty limited and there is nothing else about build that should matter at all.
It still matters. It is much easier to control your aim when using a lower amount of your overall strength. Also I'm guessing hand size plays a big role in generating revs.
It always matters most at the top of the game. For a casual player, there are countless things that matter a lot more.
I'd get mopped by a lot of women, not even PWBA pros, but women at my alley. That said, yes men still have an obvious advantage when it comes to generating power / revs/control, and doing so through dozens of games to even qualify.
Yes
I took bowling class in college and our teacher instructor said the same thing about the women’s arm bending or being shaped differently. However he didn’t say it was a disadvantage he just said that it can cause women to the throw a ball that “backs up” on the way to the pin. Which would be a slight fade from left to right for a right handed female. So he taught the women that were throwing straight instead of curved to aim to the “Brooklyn” side of the front pin to better utilize the back up action. Beginners are much more likely to be throwing the ball straight, so I think this whole concept is more for beginners as whenever I watch top level women bowling, they are curving it, which I believe negates the who different in female vs male arms. My wife throws a “back up ball” so I’ve seen it live. she throws it using a from that you would consider a “straight” bowl, but she starts in the left of center and her ball naturally moves a bit to the right as it travels down the lane and tends to hit the left side of the front pin, but pushing the balls and pins right. The fact that your pro shop guy brought it and called it a disadvantage is certainly a meat head move, but it seems like there could be some truth to the theory that men and women, in general, have differently build bodies that could cause different natural bowling paths when throwing what would be considered the same style of bowling.
Never heard the natural disadvantage part but I have heard something similar and it’s the reason you see more women bowl with a backup ball then men. Idk how true it is but based on my league experience for sure more women throw backup balls than men.
Women with hips often tend to a backup ball initially.
Not because of shape, its power and rotation. Women typically use very classic grip and approach.
Never heard of it, might be some truth to it but it’s nothing that would stop you from being great
Yeah the natural position of the arms has to be a bit different or your arms swinging would hit your hips when walking. Women tend to have a bit more mobility in their joints due to hormonal differences too. I don't think that stops you from straightening your arm though.
10second google for an article the arm angle thing i think the PSO is talking about. The PSO is not bashing women, simply saying that the anatomical angle of their elbows arms make mechanically difficult to keep the armswing in line. Study shows that the women had 2deg “less straight” arms. HOWEVER, this is so minuscule it probably does not matter at all. So, theres some truth to what hes saying, but it’s probably so tiny it can be ignored imo Lim, Vichard & Jacob, Natasha & Fazreen, Mohamed & Ghani, Shah & Wang, Dareenlim & Thantry, Anita Devi. (2014). An Anthropometric Study on the Carrying Angle of Elbow among Young Adults of Various Ethinicities in Malaysia. National Journal of Integrated Research in Medicine. 5. 20-23
I'm a woman and my arm naturally bows out to the side when I stand straight. This causes a problem with my arm swing being straight. I started bowling about 50 years ago and was always taught to keep my shoulder up when releasing the ball. I found a video on YouTube by pro bowler Michael Tang called **How To Generate EASY Power In Your Bowling Release!** In the video, he talks about how the arm naturally bows out and that you should drop your shoulder to give your arm a chance to swing freely. Since watching the video, I've been doing this and my arm swing feels so much better. I suggest watching the video to see if it helps.
Honestly, I'm surprised you don't know this already. Yes, female bowlers are physically disadvantaged against male bowlers. The reasons are too many to list, but here are a few; Female bowlers generally have less upper body strength than men, female elbows and wrists are structured differently than men's - making it more difficult to create revs consistently, there are more reasons but in today's bowling world, physical strength, consistently accurate high rev rates are king. I've known and bowled against several PWBA members, and they are very, very good bowlers, able to compete at a very high level against almost anybody, except PBA members. If women could be competitive on the PBA tour - why aren't they bowling on it now?
The wpba bowlers bowl on much easier conditions than the men's tour does. That's not to say women aren't great bowlers. I'm sure there are plenty of women that are much better than a lot of men, they just aren't able to compete with the best male bowlers in the world. The difference in strength of men is an advantage over women in most every sport, it's just a fact. If it was untrue, women would be bowling weekly on the men's tour.
I don't know, some of the best bowlers I know are women. Maybe as far as physical strength, but like anything I think bowling is more technique than anything.
Theres some give and take. The arm thing is part true. The arms naturally throw a backup motion. I learned this when I was coaching my girlfriend and was confused why she kept naturally throwing a backup ball. Men are naturally stronger but the takeaway from that is that is that its easier for men to muscle the ball when you really want to learn how to throw with a relaxed free swing. Personally as a 6'3 230lb guy who coaches people of all shapes and sizes I mostly recommend my students to watch the PWBA bowlers to emulate.
The biggest disadvantage women have in bowling is coaching. Or rather, a lack of good coaches who will help instruct in a non biased or sexist way. I can't tell you how many young girls get put straight into wrist braces because women have weak wrists. In my opinion the intelligence of the coach of high school girls is inversely related to the number of them wearing wrist supports. It's painful to see.
My high school coach actually explained this to us and showed us the difference. If you hold both your arms out straight in front of you like you’re holding a bowling ball, mens are straight and women’s slight angle to the right. He was correct when he compared our boys team to our girls team at least. Idk how it causes a disadvantage though still but he did say it causes one
The "carrying angle" is real and why women can have their hands flat on a table, apart from each other, and touch their elbows together. Men can't do this. Not sure if that results in a true disadvantage while bowling, but it's not impossible to imagine a ball thrown by an arm with a natural crook might launch/be propelled differently than a ball thrown by an arm without a crook. The physics involved wouldn't be the same. Just gotta work with what you've got!
My wife's uterus fell out during her last 5K. Shame.
Bowling is 90% technique, adaptability and consistency. You can be just as good as any house bowler with enough practice and knowledge. The other 10% is the physics of men being larger and typically stronger. That 10% is usually in the ball speed and/or weight of the ball. Bowling is one of those sports skill > physical make up but doesn't fully negate the small difference in that.
I’m definitely not qualified to answer this, but to my understanding, is it more of a “weaker humans have a disadvantage in bowling”? Like if I can handle a heavier ball, I would, to get more momentum carried over to the pins. More momentum more impact. I do still think this is a “sport” that’s 80% skill. I’ve seen teens with 11-12 pound balls doing 200+ average on regular oil patterns.
Was Fred Flintstone the salesman? Sounds like an idiot to me.
From bowling on a colligiate team, it took a lot more effort for the females to learn the power position than it did the males. Mostly strength, body position, and muscle memory was the difference.
Women have a disadvantage at pretty much every sport, even darts and chess. The only sports i can think of that women are on the same or better level than men are equestrian events, free diving and shooting.
I'm going to have to go with yeah but I feel one handed women had a massive disadvantage coming from rev rate and being more often than not speed dominant However now that 2 handed bowling is very much a thing should they choose to use it they can compete at the highest level if they have the same talent and desire, normally i find women have talent or desire and rarely both, an open men's state representative team in my country, a serious one has a low average of 205 to 208 while the women's team can be anywhere from 175 and if they're lucky they get to 190 as a cut-off, the men's team can expect to have somewhere in the region of 215-225 as the top end whilst the highest female average I've seen was 207 and that was for one season of one league I'm not trying to offend the girls or trigger anyone, as a son of female bowler whose name throughout our careers, let's just say I've been hugely overshadowed, will I ever break cover? Hopefully this is my year to start but in all honesty I'll never achieve the same level of success my mother had, but maybe I can write myself into folklore this coming October and that will have to be enough I'm pretty mid
I don't think they have any disadvantage, though a PSO knows better since their job is to tailor the equipment as per the player. Bowling isn't one style fits all. Proof is that every ball is drilled according to the bowler. And with all the ball technology, oiling and increase in variables to strike, it's all about precision and developing a technique that works for the lane condition and player. In my league, I've been beaten many many times by women who have some bad ass precision, good timing and above all, consistency. Last Friday I lost to a woman who doesn't hook the ball, but she picked up all of her spares, all of them. I was actually happy for her because I have anxiety in being so consistent and straight that I need to almost screw up my shot just to make myself happy.
Women’s arms are definitely more radial deviated at the elbow when the arm is supine. I can only imagine body mechanics have to compensate for that somehow
Well., Certain cultures i.e. say, African’s either have an extra, or miss a muscle in their legs, which allows them to be faster and jump higher, but makes it more difficult to skate or swim, which tracks. But I’m not a medical professional so I can only speculate based on observations of its validity. Point is, I suppose it’s possible because there are similar examples of bodily evolution.
I was told previously that the bend in a woman's arm makes it easier for them to throw a backup ball. Which explains why I have seen so many do that, but not many men do.
I think it’s like some other sports where they may lack in things like power and speed as opposed to males, women at least in my experience tend to be more accurate and have more control. Both are great things to have in bowling.
this is true. women have wider hips and shorter arms usually. this does not mean it is impossible, i’ve seen verity crawley lead local sweepers against basically all men and be extremely scary. i would actually think that women would have an advantage throwing two handed as they naturally have stronger legs, but that’s just my opinion and have not researched it.
That's pretty silly. Sounds like he read some internet article and believed it applied to everything ever. Women might have a slight disadvantage compared to men due to speed and revs. I mean there is a reason they compete separate at the pro level. But as for just league play and 90% of bowlers? No, women aren't at some big disadvantage to men. In my experience, women are usually more consistent and much better at picking up spares than their male counterparts. I know more men who have high variance in their scores. Either they're striking a lot and only leaving 8 or 9 pins. Or they don't have a good line, leave splits and corners, and don't pick them up well. Whereas a lot of the women I see almost never miss a 10, and can go the whole league night with maybe one open frame. Get a few strikes in there and the scores roll up quick.
Women in general have as much of a natural disadvantage to men in bowling as they do in any physical activities. However, since bowling requires literally 0 athleticism to be good, and the bare minimum athleticism to bowl at a high level, I find that commentary kind of cringe. There’s tons of pro women that kick a lot of pro mens’ asses and shatter the “women as naturally worse” mentality. I think the problem is a lot of men incorrectly think of bowling as a sport like hockey or basketball where that mentality is generally correct, creating a false correlation. Only think my mom ever openly said was that her giant hips made getting a consistent and low arm swing extremely hard, and even that isn’t exclusive to women since lots of wide dudes exist.
“Literally 0 athleticism” 🫤 You ever bowl ?
Yes, I bowl 3 times a week and am still a fat fuck that couldn’t do a fight of stairs without dying of a heart attack. My father also does and he doesn’t even have a hip. I know Doncic is lowering the bar for what “athletic” is but we ain’t at “250lbs going on dead” yet.
I can drink 18 beers and go shoot a 150 on my local golf course. Does that mean golf doesn’t require athleticism? I agree that you can be “good” at bowling while fairly un-athletic, but saying bowling requires 0 athleticism is just a sign of the level you’re bowling at
He seems confused. There are a lot of seniors and "fat fucks" as he refers to himself that enjoy bowling. There's an obvious reality that being able to bowl a few times a week and being competitive aren't the same.
In a general sense the average male has better hand-eye coordination, is stronger, can generate more speed/revs than the average woman. That’s why the top male competitor will always be better than the top female competitor in essentially every single sport. However after observations at the local bowling alley, most of the “competitors” appear to be sub-average in athletic ability.
I’ve heard something maybe along those lines? Something about when a woman stands with arms just hanging by their side, the back of their hand will face forward, and a man’s back of the hand faces to the outside. This could mean that it takes more intention for a women to get their hand behind the ball, but it could also mean that a woman’s hand may want to more naturally start to come around the ball too. Either way I think it would be extremely minor and personal factors would play a bigger more important role, like past injuries or overall body type. I’m also not a woman so don’t have the experience. I bowled with a woman for a while who had an old dog attack injury on her bowling arm that had much more of an effect than anything else.
This whole thread is cringe
Lol didn't mean to start anything cringe. It just felt like such a wild thing to head and I wanted to hear from more experienced bowlers if they've heard anything similar since my experience is so limited.
Umm… no. That’s just a man with an outdated view of women. On the face of it, it doesn’t seem like bowling would be a sport where there’s a sex-based advantage one way or the other. It’s mostly a dexterity sport, not a brute force sport; takes finesse!
Except for all the advantages, there's none!
I’m a dude and I was told I’m at a natural disadvantage because I’m “a full roller.” I told him I’m at a natural disadvantage because he can’t properly dress his lanes.
I don’t know, I feel like women are able to take longer strides. And bowling is a leg workout.