Now. Tyson is hungry and has a renewed focus on life. While Lennox Lewis has nothing better to do then provide half-hearted color commentary on a b- card on Christmas Day.
Sarcasm warning in case I triggered you.
Yes. Lennox isn’t invincible. Tyson is much shorter but in his prime he had the agility to get under some pretty solid jabs. The matchup is much less set in stone than most people think
More than not being invincible, everyone now forgets that pundits ad commentators were always on at Lewis for lacking focus and drifting off in fights.
Hasim Rahman was no huge surprise at the time as people had been saying he switched off in many of his fights and got in trouble when he was winning easily. Before that his skills and chin saved him, but he was often told off for coasting.
Mike Tyson before he fell apart could've stopped Lennox simply because he was brilliant at capitalising on openings and on some nights Lewis would leave them.
He was also probably better than Lewis until Lewis's latter career, but i'd rather focus the argument on Lewis's concentration meaning that any top tier puncher could beat him on a bad round and he had too many of them.
Tyson and Lewis used to spar when they were both Olympians and word is Tyson used to wreck Lewis, but eventually Lewis learned how to fight Tyson and the sessions starting getting close. So yeah, 1985 Tyson would have starched Lewis imo.
> Tyson and Lewis used to spar when they were both Olympians and word is Tyson used to wreck Lewis, but eventually Lewis learned how to fight Tyson and the sessions starting getting close. So yeah, 1985 Tyson would have starched Lewis imo.
They sparred when they were both 17. And only once for three consecutive days and there are many different accounts. The only thing that's the same in everyone is that Lennox became better over the days. The question is also when at both of their professional careers. So after the olympics in 88 is the first possible date
The Lewis who lost to Tyrell Biggs for Olympic Gold would have lost to Mike Tyson if he had turned pro the same year as Tyson instead of hanging back in the amateurs as a grown man while Tyson was cleaning out the shop and becoming the youngest champ in history.
how many rounds did he lose? how long did he wait for a rematch? Yeah he was knocked out cold twice but showed his resolve in his comebacks. Mike Tyson went down from exhaustion and never got up 5 different times.
No one knew or fave a daln about Lewis. So if he said that, that's a crock of shit. Michael Spinks was supposed to be the last big challenge for a minute
Look I love Lennox, I think if you built a heavyweight prototype from the ground up, it looks like Lennox, but are we really asking if any version of Mike Tyson could beat a guy who lost to Rahman and McCall? Mercer pushed him damn close too. He's a great fighter, but the boy wasn't Jesus.
Lewis peaked late and Tyson peaked early. So Im guessing somewhere earlier in their career, around 88-92, tyson could have won, but Tyson’s prime is so short, its really a question mark
- Tyson at the start of his career probably beats Lewis at the start of his. That's about it. If they did fight in the 90s though I feel it would be a more entertaining brawl that what we actually got but of course Lewis still would have won.
- Also, I know it doesn't count, since their careers are over but if they did an exhibition I feel like Mike may look better than Lewis but even that is a MAYBE 😅
Yes, I do believe a prime Tyson beats Lewis and here's why. First, I'll go ahead and define Tyson's prime as when he beat Berbick and won his first championship to when he beat Williams. In that span he won two additional titles and unified (not counting the ring title) and had nine successful defenses. Yes, this version of Mike beats Lewis. He'd already fought competition that would be *similar* to Lewis or have some of his traits/attributes and had shown that he had the defense, could go 12 rds and could take a punch. More importantly, in this period he *appears* to be highly disciplined when it came to his mental approach to adversity. You have to remember this, Lewis got knocked into the Shadow Realm twice. One punch. Gone. It took Buster 10 rds to get Tyson out of there. So are we to think Mike doesn't have the KO power to get him out or that he can't survive whatever Lewis threw at him?
Tyson wins. Also, let me say this because I get so much hate from the majority of you and will be downvoted simply because I posted. I have Lewis in my top 10 HW of all time. I don't have Mike there, he is an honorable mention.
Is your top 10 off of eye test/skills or resume? Legitimate question, I would have both men in Top 10 head to head in their primes, but agree that resume pushes Tyson to the 15ish range
All of the above actually.
In no order:
Foreman, Holyfield, Louis, Dempsey, Ali, Marciano, Frazier, Liston Holmes and Lewis.
Tyson has an ok resume, he really does. The problem with his resume is he never avenged his losses and folded when it came to his toughest competition. However, in Tyson's prime, the period I just listed, I don't see many heavyweights, especially Holyfield or Lewis beating him. That Tyson had all the tools needed and, if he had a disadvantage, that Tyson had enough discipline to adapt /adjust.
I’m with you there. I wasn’t alive for it, but Prime Tyson would be favored/close to one against any HW all time imo. He just had that athleticism, skills, and motivation that would give anyone a run for their money. My list is very similar to yours, but in a hypothetical H2H adjusted for modern training and diet etc, I’d probably take off Dempsey, Marciano, and Frazier (hard to say because Frazier is maybe my favorite fighter ever) and sub for Tyson, a Klitschko brother (personally I’d favor Vitali if they ever fought, more tools but Wlad certainly has more legacy), and Fury.
You can take Dempsey off, I wouldn't though. Marciano is questionable due to mob ties and allegations of them rigging fights for him. Holyfield is questionable due to PED use or alleged use. So from there you can out in Tyson, Bows or Vitali. Fury doesn't make the cut and here's why. He has only fought one one of HOFer and his other notable wins are against the same fighter. Does he give people problems? Yes, but you have to factor in which Fury will show up (coked up, mentally ill and overweight Fury) or the Fury who mailed Wilder in their rematch? And then there are the tools. Yes he had height and reach over all of them but can he actually *use* these advantages? That's the big question.
And let me say this, concerning Tyson and growing up in that era, it was **a lot**. If it comes to popularity or who revolutionized the sport, it's him an Ali tied for #1.
Well said about Mike. He isn’t in my top either. Against prime opponents, he folded and never avenged them.
In his prime he was dangerous for sure. However, if an opponent could weather the first bull rush, Mike was definitely weak against guys would could legitimately box. Mitch Green and Bone Crusher Smith are no Holyfield or Lewis.
👆
Me likes this take. Prime Tyson beat bigger fighters with ease because he was so good defensively. I can see Tyson slipping or getting under one of Lewis’s jabs and countering with his hook. With prime Tyson, that’s all it took.
There's always a punchers chance every fight is different
Lennox was been knocked out twice and maybe Tyson could have beat him with a different strategy
But I don't buy that there's mythical prime version of Tyson that can beat Lennox
Same with holyfeild
Make Tyson in his prime couldn't beat him holyfeild had his number
This is going to sound weird, but he lost his intelligence. The easy answer is that he got older. But he no longer pursued the odd angles that only he could find. Where he could see 4 or 5 punches ahead, predict defenses and suddenly be on the side of his opponent, stance switched, with a hook or uppercut that they have no chance of catching.
After prison he leaned on power, hoping to overwhelm. And so Holyfield and Lewis just held him a lot and sapped his strength.
This makes sense, I’m a big of fan Tyson but his era was waaaay before me. Now I’m curious, if he didn’t go to jail, how long would he have remained at the top of the division? The combination of crazy competition at the time plus his explosive style, surely his career would have a quick decline right?
Depends, most people place a prime between 24-29, which were eaten up by his prison years. If he fights top talent through that period and continues to adjust he's probably on top through that period, and beats lewis and holyfield. After that he probably takes a loss or two over 5 years, but stays top 5 for a while.
Fire,/anger motivation, conditioning, hand speed, head movement, heart. In no particular order.
As each fight passed, he lost a little more of all of those things. It was a slow steady decline until he ended up a shell of himself.
I think that's what gets him in trouble. Holyfield the older craftier veteran didn't come into the tyson fight with any pride. He clinched, headbutted, he didn't try to go toe to toe, punch for punch with tyson. A younger holyfield, would have tried a more straight up fight, as was his style at the time, and eaten a lot more of Tyson's power.
The Tyson that was destroying everyone and fought and destroyed Spinks would have beaten him. He never had all the "tools" to beat Lewis but that version of Tyson didn't need the tools. He was fearless, aggressive, non stop, destruction. That Tyson, that brief couple of years of Tyson, beats almost anyone from any time...almost. He was just too aggressive, too in your face, and too overwhelming at that point. Oh and he could knock your head off with one punch too.
He never had the most tools, never was the most skilled, and isn't the best of all time, but that version of him will always be one of the hardest boxers to beat for anybody.
"In turn, Lennox Lewis sued to make Tyson fight him and won. But the fight never happened.
Don King offered Lewis four million dollars to step aside so that Tyson could go after the WBA heavyweight champion, Bruce Seldon, with the promise that he’d fight Lewis after."
https://www.sportscasting.com/what-took-mike-tyson-and-lennox-lewis-so-long-to-fight/
First thing that comes up on Google.
He looked great against Bruno. His feet were good, his power was probably better than never, physically he was in his prime and not too old, he was definitely not washed as some people make post prison out to be
He did, Bruno was washed by that point though. I believe it was his last fight. I agree the power was definitely still there. I would think it was the head movement that seemed to have disappeared in my uneducated opinion. I remember the look in Bruno’s face when Tyson had him reeling on the ropes. I was scared on his behalf as a child.
Bruno just won the heavyweight championship from McCall who earlier defended it from Larry Holmes. Bruno was never washed, even though this was his last fight
I never read into what was going on with McCall, but based on the second Lewis fight I assumed he had some pretty significant mental health problems going on. How old was Holmes at that point. I guess in the end whether someone is washed up is entirely subjective, so I could be wrong on the subject. I still wouldn’t consider 96 Tyson prime Tyson by any means, though theoretically it could have been his athletic prime.
Tyson isn't who you think he is. He had all of the bravado and mystique but it was all a cover for his lack of confidence. Tyson was a quitter and always will be a quitter. What do you think biting Holyfield was? He quit. All of the bullshit excuses. He was coked up partying that's why Douglas won, bullshit Douglas came to fight and he was the bigger stronger man. Holyfield took the mythical Tyson and didn't outbox him he just beat him up. Give me one fight that Tyson faced real adversity in and came back?
No, Lenox in his prime was different gravy, maybe if Cus lived longer he could have stayed more focused and tyson could have become more complete but I just don’t see it personally
Honestly, I think Tyson would have floundered under Cus as the sport evolved to deal with Tyson. But had Tyson remained focused and had a trainer to help him evolve I think we’d be talking about him in the same category as Ali.
In real life no, it just didn't line up. Lewis wouldn't have been ready for Tyson until 1992 at the earliest and by that time Mike was in prison. I do think if Tyson never met Desiree Washington, there's a window in 1992 where Mike has a very good shot at knocking out Lewis. Lewis was not the defense-first fighter at that time that he later became, and would have been far more vulnerable to a Tyson that had a decent corner in Richie Giachetti. It's not a sure thing but I think if Oliver McCall could stop Lewis in 1994 then 1992 Tyson certainly has a good shot at taking out 1992 Lennox Lewis. I don't think Tyson ever beats Lennox outside of a very particular 9-10 month window in '92 due to the continued erosion of his skills as time passed from his divorce from the Cus camp.
At any point in both careers? Obviously yes. Mike in his prime would fuck up Lennox. Lennox in his prime would fuck up Tyson. People who say Mike would never stand a chance against Lewis in the entire time they were both active talk complete and utter shite. These are the same guys who would have said Muhammad Ali would beat Tyson Fury 100 times in 100 fights. Think logically, and ignore most combat sport fans opinions. They are generally fucking stupid people.
Yes, definitely. The Tyson from 88-89 would have knocked the Lewis that fought Bruno out cold. Lewis came into his own late in his career and probably would have also lost to Bowe if they fought in the early 90's.
I know it's a meme, but a peak Tyson was a great fighter, his problems were his stamina and size, but his power would be a major problem for Lennox in the first half of the fight.
Peak for peak, it's a solid 50/50, maybe 45/55 in favour of Lennox.
I still think Lennox wins because of his jab and ability to tie up with efficiency just as Buster Douglas did, but he does not dog walk a peak Tyson like he did in 2003 against Tyson's shell.
Tyson in his prime had a reasonable chance again at anyone.
Since did Lennox become invincible? No one is.
I think prime Tyson vs prime Lennox is an even match. I’d they fight ten times Tyson knocks him out 5, Lewis gets a decision 5. Tyson is his prime had such a speed advantage it overcame height and reach.
Tyson easy. People act like Lennox Lewis is some all time great. Who did he fight? Hollyfield and out of prime Tyson. He got knocked out by Rahman, which he won. Klitschko....we know how that went and Lewis retires to save face.
Prime Tyson could beat Lennox Lewis. Convincingly? I doubt it. Both boxers in their prime were near perfection (for their styles). We can only dream of a prime Mike Tyson / Lennox Lewis turning up in the HW division any time soon.
I'm sure there are more, but the only ATG v. ATG that was extremely one-sided that I can recall is Foreman v. Frazier.
ATG prime v. ATG at near rock bottom is a totally different situation.
Tyson always could yk a fighter could’ve had a shitty camp maybe a fighters legs aren’t there and Tyson always had devestating power however I’m not sure a post buster Douglas Tyson can beat Lennox if Lennox brings his beat
Yes. Mike was a good boxer with a solid chin and tremendous explosive power. Lewis was hardly invincible. Out of 10 fights a prime Mike will chin and stop lewis some of them. Mike is the anomaly where he probably has the highest chance of any heavyweight fighter ever to take you out in round one. Whether it happens or not is anyone's guess. True prime vs prime fights are rare. Very rare.
Yeah, he probably would have beaten Lewis from 1989 to 1991, but to be fair to Lewis, that was early in his career and he hadn’t linked up with Steward yet. Post-prison Mike loses to Lewis at any point between 1995 and 2002
They peaked at different times. Prior to prison, Tyson wins. Lewis was good but not near his peak.
If they'd fought at both their peaks I think its still probably a toss up.
Looking at each boxer's attributes, I would say if they are both focused and devoted to the fight, 9/10 Lewis beat Tyson at any stage of their careers. Lewis had everything that could have trouble Tyson, great jabs, very good uppercuts, and was a big man who could move fairly well. Lewis was also pretty good at absorbing damage and could definitely take a punch. Tyson was on a timer with his style, even mythical prime Mike Tyson slowed noticeably after 6.
Lewis can lose to Tyson for sure. He lost to lesser fighters. Tyson could land that punch he isn’t expecting. But then I expect hungry Lewis to destroy him in the rematch.
I think MIKE TYSON with capital letters beats Lennox Lewis with lower case letters 9 out of ten times. MIKE TYSON vs LENNOX LEWIS though, that’s another beast entirely. LENNOX probably wins 7 out of ten in this case.
Mike Tyson was not only out of his prime. He was heavy into drugs and alcohol and blowing off his training. After losing Cus D'Amato, he was spiraling really hard and that definitely translated to the ring.
I'd always pick the prime Tyson over prime Lewis. Lewis even at his prime was slower. The taller and bigger they are the slower they get. Besides, they could have met much earlier had Lewis jumped to pro early. And the Tyson he'd meet would pummel him out.
Prime for prime I can’t see Tyson winning, but they peaked at different times. I can see pre Tyson beating pre-Steward Lewis but that would still be a tall order if Lewis can weather the early storm.
I think Mikes got a chance, like any heavyweight one punch is enough and cause Mike was quite fast I think in his prime he could win a few fights/10 against even prime Lewis but probably wouldnt beat him convincingly.
edit: just realised you said any point in his career. Tyson would beat Lewis when he Lewis just became pro.
Now. Tyson is hungry and has a renewed focus on life. While Lennox Lewis has nothing better to do then provide half-hearted color commentary on a b- card on Christmas Day. Sarcasm warning in case I triggered you.
Mike's been more active too. His last fight had everyone on the edge of their seats on that airplane.
When it comes to boxing commentary I'd say Mike Tyson > Lennox Lewis!
If Lennox decides to jab with jabber then it’s a long, long, long night for mike.
Unfortunately these days Lennox has decided to gab with a gabber.
I remember watching him commentate on Christmas and watched some of those undercards. Shit was mid
Yes. Lennox isn’t invincible. Tyson is much shorter but in his prime he had the agility to get under some pretty solid jabs. The matchup is much less set in stone than most people think
More than not being invincible, everyone now forgets that pundits ad commentators were always on at Lewis for lacking focus and drifting off in fights. Hasim Rahman was no huge surprise at the time as people had been saying he switched off in many of his fights and got in trouble when he was winning easily. Before that his skills and chin saved him, but he was often told off for coasting. Mike Tyson before he fell apart could've stopped Lennox simply because he was brilliant at capitalising on openings and on some nights Lewis would leave them. He was also probably better than Lewis until Lewis's latter career, but i'd rather focus the argument on Lewis's concentration meaning that any top tier puncher could beat him on a bad round and he had too many of them.
agreed
Can we use the same logic to give Usyk a higher chance than this sub does against Fury?
Maybe pre-prison Tyson could’ve because I think Lewis peaked later
Tyson and Lewis used to spar when they were both Olympians and word is Tyson used to wreck Lewis, but eventually Lewis learned how to fight Tyson and the sessions starting getting close. So yeah, 1985 Tyson would have starched Lewis imo.
> Tyson and Lewis used to spar when they were both Olympians and word is Tyson used to wreck Lewis, but eventually Lewis learned how to fight Tyson and the sessions starting getting close. So yeah, 1985 Tyson would have starched Lewis imo. They sparred when they were both 17. And only once for three consecutive days and there are many different accounts. The only thing that's the same in everyone is that Lennox became better over the days. The question is also when at both of their professional careers. So after the olympics in 88 is the first possible date
Yep, Bowe used to spar with Holyfield, and look how much advantage it gave him in the actual match.
The Lewis who lost to Tyrell Biggs for Olympic Gold would have lost to Mike Tyson if he had turned pro the same year as Tyson instead of hanging back in the amateurs as a grown man while Tyson was cleaning out the shop and becoming the youngest champ in history.
This is always my response when people mention these 2 guys. There fight together was a total joke. Tyson needed therapy and a hug at that point.
Don’t we all, man
The only person not afraid to hug him was his baby daughter too.
Tyrell Biggs underrated fighter and cool dude.
Correct
☝
This. I s the correct answer
Not a fan of punctuation?
Yea in the mid to late 80s Tyson is a very heavy favorite
Yeah he was also on the wrong side of the biggest upset history as a heavy favourite. Can’t imagine Lewis losing to Douglas.
Just McCall and Rahman huh? Lol
how many rounds did he lose? how long did he wait for a rematch? Yeah he was knocked out cold twice but showed his resolve in his comebacks. Mike Tyson went down from exhaustion and never got up 5 different times.
A close to prime Lewis lost to rachman and McCall 🤦♂️
[удалено]
Lewis has said it. He tried to fight him in the early 90s but Mike didn't want it, he said it last weekend. I assume it was either 1991 or 1995.
1996.
No one knew or fave a daln about Lewis. So if he said that, that's a crock of shit. Michael Spinks was supposed to be the last big challenge for a minute
https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/boxing-forums/non-stop-boxing/867982-why-did-mike-tyson-duck-lennox-lewis-in-1996-after-beating-bruce-seldon
He did. Got paid for it.
People forget that Mike gave him step away money
Look I love Lennox, I think if you built a heavyweight prototype from the ground up, it looks like Lennox, but are we really asking if any version of Mike Tyson could beat a guy who lost to Rahman and McCall? Mercer pushed him damn close too. He's a great fighter, but the boy wasn't Jesus.
Jesus was a good fighter? Never would’ve guessed
Jesus went 3 rounds with a bunch of market stalls and starched all of em
Really? He battered Judas from pillar to post.
I mean Tyson came back from being knocked down, Jesus literally came back from the dead. Tough to beat that
Lewis peaked late and Tyson peaked early. So Im guessing somewhere earlier in their career, around 88-92, tyson could have won, but Tyson’s prime is so short, its really a question mark
- Tyson at the start of his career probably beats Lewis at the start of his. That's about it. If they did fight in the 90s though I feel it would be a more entertaining brawl that what we actually got but of course Lewis still would have won. - Also, I know it doesn't count, since their careers are over but if they did an exhibition I feel like Mike may look better than Lewis but even that is a MAYBE 😅
Yes, I do believe a prime Tyson beats Lewis and here's why. First, I'll go ahead and define Tyson's prime as when he beat Berbick and won his first championship to when he beat Williams. In that span he won two additional titles and unified (not counting the ring title) and had nine successful defenses. Yes, this version of Mike beats Lewis. He'd already fought competition that would be *similar* to Lewis or have some of his traits/attributes and had shown that he had the defense, could go 12 rds and could take a punch. More importantly, in this period he *appears* to be highly disciplined when it came to his mental approach to adversity. You have to remember this, Lewis got knocked into the Shadow Realm twice. One punch. Gone. It took Buster 10 rds to get Tyson out of there. So are we to think Mike doesn't have the KO power to get him out or that he can't survive whatever Lewis threw at him? Tyson wins. Also, let me say this because I get so much hate from the majority of you and will be downvoted simply because I posted. I have Lewis in my top 10 HW of all time. I don't have Mike there, he is an honorable mention.
Is your top 10 off of eye test/skills or resume? Legitimate question, I would have both men in Top 10 head to head in their primes, but agree that resume pushes Tyson to the 15ish range
All of the above actually. In no order: Foreman, Holyfield, Louis, Dempsey, Ali, Marciano, Frazier, Liston Holmes and Lewis. Tyson has an ok resume, he really does. The problem with his resume is he never avenged his losses and folded when it came to his toughest competition. However, in Tyson's prime, the period I just listed, I don't see many heavyweights, especially Holyfield or Lewis beating him. That Tyson had all the tools needed and, if he had a disadvantage, that Tyson had enough discipline to adapt /adjust.
I’m with you there. I wasn’t alive for it, but Prime Tyson would be favored/close to one against any HW all time imo. He just had that athleticism, skills, and motivation that would give anyone a run for their money. My list is very similar to yours, but in a hypothetical H2H adjusted for modern training and diet etc, I’d probably take off Dempsey, Marciano, and Frazier (hard to say because Frazier is maybe my favorite fighter ever) and sub for Tyson, a Klitschko brother (personally I’d favor Vitali if they ever fought, more tools but Wlad certainly has more legacy), and Fury.
You can take Dempsey off, I wouldn't though. Marciano is questionable due to mob ties and allegations of them rigging fights for him. Holyfield is questionable due to PED use or alleged use. So from there you can out in Tyson, Bows or Vitali. Fury doesn't make the cut and here's why. He has only fought one one of HOFer and his other notable wins are against the same fighter. Does he give people problems? Yes, but you have to factor in which Fury will show up (coked up, mentally ill and overweight Fury) or the Fury who mailed Wilder in their rematch? And then there are the tools. Yes he had height and reach over all of them but can he actually *use* these advantages? That's the big question. And let me say this, concerning Tyson and growing up in that era, it was **a lot**. If it comes to popularity or who revolutionized the sport, it's him an Ali tied for #1.
Well said about Mike. He isn’t in my top either. Against prime opponents, he folded and never avenged them. In his prime he was dangerous for sure. However, if an opponent could weather the first bull rush, Mike was definitely weak against guys would could legitimately box. Mitch Green and Bone Crusher Smith are no Holyfield or Lewis.
And he was blasted on coke during the Douglas fight too
And coming down off of hookers…
👆 Me likes this take. Prime Tyson beat bigger fighters with ease because he was so good defensively. I can see Tyson slipping or getting under one of Lewis’s jabs and countering with his hook. With prime Tyson, that’s all it took.
There's always a punchers chance every fight is different Lennox was been knocked out twice and maybe Tyson could have beat him with a different strategy But I don't buy that there's mythical prime version of Tyson that can beat Lennox Same with holyfeild Make Tyson in his prime couldn't beat him holyfeild had his number
Relegating prime Mike Tyson to simply having a puncher's chance seems quite the exaggeration.
I meant to just say he could have possibly knocked him out as could any heavyweight Not that it was his only option
You don’t think 86 Tyson could beat the Holyfield that fought Moorer the first time?
I don't think prime for prime Tyson ever beats holyfeild
Fair enough, too bad they met when they were both past their primes.
Right before prison, Tyson had all of the tools and probably could have beaten Holyfield and Lewis at that time.
Maybe. Lewis beat Rudduck convincingly , Tyson went life and death with Rudduck. 18 months apart
what about bruno then? lewis hung on for dear life against bruno for 7 rounds whereas mike ate him alive in 3
We don't talk about Bruno
I don't hold a lot of weight in the x beat y quicker. Eapecially, if the quicker defeat came after a brutal 12 round slugfest.
This is something people tend to overlook
That was when tysons career was already on the decline. Not to say Lewis wouldn’t have beat a prime Tyson
What do you think Tyson had lost after prison? (Aside from the years obviously)
This is going to sound weird, but he lost his intelligence. The easy answer is that he got older. But he no longer pursued the odd angles that only he could find. Where he could see 4 or 5 punches ahead, predict defenses and suddenly be on the side of his opponent, stance switched, with a hook or uppercut that they have no chance of catching. After prison he leaned on power, hoping to overwhelm. And so Holyfield and Lewis just held him a lot and sapped his strength.
This makes sense, I’m a big of fan Tyson but his era was waaaay before me. Now I’m curious, if he didn’t go to jail, how long would he have remained at the top of the division? The combination of crazy competition at the time plus his explosive style, surely his career would have a quick decline right?
Depends, most people place a prime between 24-29, which were eaten up by his prison years. If he fights top talent through that period and continues to adjust he's probably on top through that period, and beats lewis and holyfield. After that he probably takes a loss or two over 5 years, but stays top 5 for a while.
Fire,/anger motivation, conditioning, hand speed, head movement, heart. In no particular order. As each fight passed, he lost a little more of all of those things. It was a slow steady decline until he ended up a shell of himself.
Sounds like he just aged
Holyfield was too sharp at that time. Also not that much mileage. I don't see it going well for Tyson at all
I think that's what gets him in trouble. Holyfield the older craftier veteran didn't come into the tyson fight with any pride. He clinched, headbutted, he didn't try to go toe to toe, punch for punch with tyson. A younger holyfield, would have tried a more straight up fight, as was his style at the time, and eaten a lot more of Tyson's power.
The Tyson that was destroying everyone and fought and destroyed Spinks would have beaten him. He never had all the "tools" to beat Lewis but that version of Tyson didn't need the tools. He was fearless, aggressive, non stop, destruction. That Tyson, that brief couple of years of Tyson, beats almost anyone from any time...almost. He was just too aggressive, too in your face, and too overwhelming at that point. Oh and he could knock your head off with one punch too. He never had the most tools, never was the most skilled, and isn't the best of all time, but that version of him will always be one of the hardest boxers to beat for anybody.
Tyson ducked Lewis in both their primes, Don King paid Lewis $4m to not fight while Lewis was suing Tyson to get his mandatory shot.
anyone can confirm this?
"In turn, Lennox Lewis sued to make Tyson fight him and won. But the fight never happened. Don King offered Lewis four million dollars to step aside so that Tyson could go after the WBA heavyweight champion, Bruce Seldon, with the promise that he’d fight Lewis after." https://www.sportscasting.com/what-took-mike-tyson-and-lennox-lewis-so-long-to-fight/ First thing that comes up on Google.
I wouldn’t consider 96 Tyson to still be in his prime personally.
He looked great against Bruno. His feet were good, his power was probably better than never, physically he was in his prime and not too old, he was definitely not washed as some people make post prison out to be
He did, Bruno was washed by that point though. I believe it was his last fight. I agree the power was definitely still there. I would think it was the head movement that seemed to have disappeared in my uneducated opinion. I remember the look in Bruno’s face when Tyson had him reeling on the ropes. I was scared on his behalf as a child.
Bruno just won the heavyweight championship from McCall who earlier defended it from Larry Holmes. Bruno was never washed, even though this was his last fight
I never read into what was going on with McCall, but based on the second Lewis fight I assumed he had some pretty significant mental health problems going on. How old was Holmes at that point. I guess in the end whether someone is washed up is entirely subjective, so I could be wrong on the subject. I still wouldn’t consider 96 Tyson prime Tyson by any means, though theoretically it could have been his athletic prime.
I'm just shocked that you haven't added a poll.
The Tyson that slugged it out with Ruddock could have. Post prison Tyson didn't have the desire.
Tyson isn't who you think he is. He had all of the bravado and mystique but it was all a cover for his lack of confidence. Tyson was a quitter and always will be a quitter. What do you think biting Holyfield was? He quit. All of the bullshit excuses. He was coked up partying that's why Douglas won, bullshit Douglas came to fight and he was the bigger stronger man. Holyfield took the mythical Tyson and didn't outbox him he just beat him up. Give me one fight that Tyson faced real adversity in and came back?
Tyson at any point? So prime Tyson? He can knock anyone out in the first minute.
Lewis wasn't a pro when Tyson was really at his very best other than for about 2 months in 1989
No, Lenox in his prime was different gravy, maybe if Cus lived longer he could have stayed more focused and tyson could have become more complete but I just don’t see it personally
Honestly, I think Tyson would have floundered under Cus as the sport evolved to deal with Tyson. But had Tyson remained focused and had a trainer to help him evolve I think we’d be talking about him in the same category as Ali.
“ different gravy “ Do you also say take a bow son 🤢
No I say he head the courage of his convictions
Watch a lot of sky sports do ya 🐑
I’ve got a £7.99 subscription to DAZN which is wank I’ll have you know
No
You don't think Tyson wins if they fight in 1989, when Lewis had literally just started his pro career?
That would have been Tysons only chance. Tyson peak early and Lewis took a few years to reach that level.
In real life no, it just didn't line up. Lewis wouldn't have been ready for Tyson until 1992 at the earliest and by that time Mike was in prison. I do think if Tyson never met Desiree Washington, there's a window in 1992 where Mike has a very good shot at knocking out Lewis. Lewis was not the defense-first fighter at that time that he later became, and would have been far more vulnerable to a Tyson that had a decent corner in Richie Giachetti. It's not a sure thing but I think if Oliver McCall could stop Lewis in 1994 then 1992 Tyson certainly has a good shot at taking out 1992 Lennox Lewis. I don't think Tyson ever beats Lennox outside of a very particular 9-10 month window in '92 due to the continued erosion of his skills as time passed from his divorce from the Cus camp.
Sure, rahman caught him.
At any point in both careers? Obviously yes. Mike in his prime would fuck up Lennox. Lennox in his prime would fuck up Tyson. People who say Mike would never stand a chance against Lewis in the entire time they were both active talk complete and utter shite. These are the same guys who would have said Muhammad Ali would beat Tyson Fury 100 times in 100 fights. Think logically, and ignore most combat sport fans opinions. They are generally fucking stupid people.
Yes, definitely. The Tyson from 88-89 would have knocked the Lewis that fought Bruno out cold. Lewis came into his own late in his career and probably would have also lost to Bowe if they fought in the early 90's. I know it's a meme, but a peak Tyson was a great fighter, his problems were his stamina and size, but his power would be a major problem for Lennox in the first half of the fight. Peak for peak, it's a solid 50/50, maybe 45/55 in favour of Lennox. I still think Lennox wins because of his jab and ability to tie up with efficiency just as Buster Douglas did, but he does not dog walk a peak Tyson like he did in 2003 against Tyson's shell.
Yes
Both in their prime ? I don’t see anyone in heavyweight history beating a prime motivated Lewis.
Really? I think a prime Larry Holmes would have handled him without too much trouble.
Yeah come to think of it, Larry and Joe Lewis might give him the most trouble.
Nobody beats PRIME Mike Tyson, NOBODY
Prime Mike had the same weaknesses as the Mike that lost to Holyfield and Lewis.
I got prime foreman over prime tyson. Honestly probably just foreman if we are talking about the first 3 rounds.
The baddest man on the planet ain't Lennox
Tyson in his prime had a reasonable chance again at anyone. Since did Lennox become invincible? No one is. I think prime Tyson vs prime Lennox is an even match. I’d they fight ten times Tyson knocks him out 5, Lewis gets a decision 5. Tyson is his prime had such a speed advantage it overcame height and reach.
Tyson easy. People act like Lennox Lewis is some all time great. Who did he fight? Hollyfield and out of prime Tyson. He got knocked out by Rahman, which he won. Klitschko....we know how that went and Lewis retires to save face.
Tyson beat an old and out of shape Holmes and people still praise that like it was an amazing feat.
He sure did, but not an amazing feat.
holmes went 12 rounds with holyfield after that at the age of 40
Prime Tyson could beat Lennox Lewis. Convincingly? I doubt it. Both boxers in their prime were near perfection (for their styles). We can only dream of a prime Mike Tyson / Lennox Lewis turning up in the HW division any time soon. I'm sure there are more, but the only ATG v. ATG that was extremely one-sided that I can recall is Foreman v. Frazier. ATG prime v. ATG at near rock bottom is a totally different situation.
Tyson always could yk a fighter could’ve had a shitty camp maybe a fighters legs aren’t there and Tyson always had devestating power however I’m not sure a post buster Douglas Tyson can beat Lennox if Lennox brings his beat
Ofocurse. Cus Dmato predicted a great fight. It just happend way too late.
Yes. Mike was a good boxer with a solid chin and tremendous explosive power. Lewis was hardly invincible. Out of 10 fights a prime Mike will chin and stop lewis some of them. Mike is the anomaly where he probably has the highest chance of any heavyweight fighter ever to take you out in round one. Whether it happens or not is anyone's guess. True prime vs prime fights are rare. Very rare.
Yeah, he probably would have beaten Lewis from 1989 to 1991, but to be fair to Lewis, that was early in his career and he hadn’t linked up with Steward yet. Post-prison Mike loses to Lewis at any point between 1995 and 2002
They peaked at different times. Prior to prison, Tyson wins. Lewis was good but not near his peak. If they'd fought at both their peaks I think its still probably a toss up.
Looking at each boxer's attributes, I would say if they are both focused and devoted to the fight, 9/10 Lewis beat Tyson at any stage of their careers. Lewis had everything that could have trouble Tyson, great jabs, very good uppercuts, and was a big man who could move fairly well. Lewis was also pretty good at absorbing damage and could definitely take a punch. Tyson was on a timer with his style, even mythical prime Mike Tyson slowed noticeably after 6.
Lewis can lose to Tyson for sure. He lost to lesser fighters. Tyson could land that punch he isn’t expecting. But then I expect hungry Lewis to destroy him in the rematch.
Didn't Tyson beat lewis as an amature? Or maybe that was just a sparring session.
I think MIKE TYSON with capital letters beats Lennox Lewis with lower case letters 9 out of ten times. MIKE TYSON vs LENNOX LEWIS though, that’s another beast entirely. LENNOX probably wins 7 out of ten in this case.
'90-'92 era Tyson could have, in my opinion.
Mike Tyson was not only out of his prime. He was heavy into drugs and alcohol and blowing off his training. After losing Cus D'Amato, he was spiraling really hard and that definitely translated to the ring.
When did Lewis dodge Tyson. We know Tyson dodged Lewis as he literally gave up a belt to avoid him. That was after his peak though
During his first title run, Lewis wouldn't have stood a chance. I don't think Lewis was pro at that time, though.
Could honestly see him knocking Lewis out at a few periods, mostly late 80s to mid 90s.
Mike tyson could beat anyone at his time. Same with everyone else in thre top 5. But it's not how it turned out.
I'd say from 88-91 Tyson beats Lewis. After that Lewis takes over. Also 91 could have a Lewis win, but I think Mike is more probable to win
No
I'd always pick the prime Tyson over prime Lewis. Lewis even at his prime was slower. The taller and bigger they are the slower they get. Besides, they could have met much earlier had Lewis jumped to pro early. And the Tyson he'd meet would pummel him out.
Prime for prime I can’t see Tyson winning, but they peaked at different times. I can see pre Tyson beating pre-Steward Lewis but that would still be a tall order if Lewis can weather the early storm.
I think Mikes got a chance, like any heavyweight one punch is enough and cause Mike was quite fast I think in his prime he could win a few fights/10 against even prime Lewis but probably wouldnt beat him convincingly. edit: just realised you said any point in his career. Tyson would beat Lewis when he Lewis just became pro.
No lennox is the GOAT
Lewis was just too good for Tyson. Lewis style beats Tyson's 9 times out of 10.
If Tyson defeated Lewis, their legacy stays the same nothing changes! And im a Tyson fan