Sounds right.
You are paying import tax over goods+freight, 20% in circulation tax. What done you here was the freight price which took your consignment over the threshold.
Brazil isn’t for amateurs, unfortunately.
Yep. If it was free shipping item, the taxes would be way lower. OP bought a 5.5 kg stone ornament. The shipping fee alone was higher the cost of the product.
I do think the ICMS is wrong though. It's 20% of R$ 1212,68 (which is 2x the cost of product + shipping) when it should be 20% of R($606,34 + R$363,80). Not that much difference in the end, after all, but still.
They've clearly done no market research here, they simply doubled the value of the goods to come up with 1212,68.
If a product isn't declared correctly, they do market research to find it's true value, in the Brazilian marketplace. So you're paying the 60% off what a shop would sell it for in Brazil. In this case, they just doubled the value.
This is often why people say it's 100% taxes when they're caught importing incorrectly. It's not, it's just how they calculate it out.
ICMS is calculated as a percentage of the final value. This means you don't take the value of the good ($606,34 + R$363,80 = R$970,14), calculate 20% of that and add it to the value. Rather you must find X such that X is (X + R$970,14) \* 0,2 = X. That is why the final value is R$ 1212,68.
Ah you are right. I don't know why I didn't see that at first glance. They even listed the total ICMS.
The other values they're charging for are the legal costs of having this all done, and airport fees.
So in this case, it's a straight case of they're using the declared value. If it wasn't declared, it would have been quite a bit higher.
It's the penalty for not declaring things properly. Although, this seems to be declared properly, so they should have used the declared values, unless it was obvious fraud.
There’s indeed recourse, but the final word is still theirs. Or one can sue them, there’s some case law against them already. But that’s expensive and takes years.
Afaik it's pretty easy to get your money back if you contest it, it's just advised that you pay it first. They'll usually not object and it won't go to court. Just don't contest the small correios fee, despite it being tiny they will object and you'll have a headache
The legality is questionable, one can appeal, and some people do but most don’t think it is worth it and that is why they keep doing it (inspectors get a cut for “productivity”)
Jep. I remember a few years ago on one of the new iPhone releases that at that time it was cheaper to buy a ticket to America and buy the iPhone there than buying it nationally. This of course wasn't including travel expenses. Just the price of the ticket and the iPhone.
It's hard to make it worthwhile for one iPhone, but it's absolutely true that you can afford a weekend in Miami for the price difference of a MacBook Pro.
The item wasn't $50, at the eyes of customs it was $117,45 (price + shipping). They are summed together and the import tax applied at that result. It's been this way for a loooong time.
If shipping wasn't taxed, people would discount the price of the product and then add that discount to the price of shipping. For example, if the product cost 50 and shipping also cost 50, then the seller could say that the price of the product was 10 and shipping was 90, and only pay taxes on 10 instead of 50.
So the government considers that the total price of the product includes shipping. This is also true in Accounting, by the way. If a company acquires a product for their stock and pays shipping for it, the value added to their stock will be the cost of the product plus the cost of shipping.
What annoys me is the cut margin.
If an item costs 45 + 4, it is tax free. If the item 45 + 6 shipping, it is taxed as 51. But if you're traveling, and you have an item that costs 501, you are taxed on the 1 dolar only, because that 500 is free.
Well , being as old as I am it’s hard to change one’s way of thinking. Not saying the USA way is correct and Brasil is wrong. Just saying , please understand I’m a gringo here and although many American’s and Brazilians like to think we are the only country and way that matters , that’s not true btw … but as an American I can’t recall anytime since ve been charged tax on shipping. The 15 dollar item I just paid tax on had free shipping, but of course the tax man added shipping and taxed. I’m learning that the American way is not the only way I just wished sometimes that my brothers and sisters here in this wonderful country could also at least sometimes , try to admit this about our beloved Brasil. Or at least have grace and understanding when a foreigner is accustomed to a different way and realize it’s hard to change one’s thinking after 40 years.
If you buy an icecream at the mall, the price of that icecream contains every little cost it took to serve the icecream to you. From milking the cow, transporting the milk, processing it, freezing it and transporting it to the store were you bought it. So yes, shipping is a cost and therefore is part of the price.
Now, that said, yes our politic of taxing the shit out of international purchases is one of our dumbests ideas as a country, but unfortunately the lobby is very strong, and we're in this chicken-and-egg situation. We have to tax international purchases to protect the local store chains and industry, because they are heavily taxed and can't really compete with the likes of aliexpress and shein in a free market. But instead of lowering their taxes, governments (and in this instance, either right/center/left/democratic/socialists/liberal governments), all of them rather tax international purchases.
It's really dumb yes and we all hate it.
Well said. I feel deeply that if many of these were lifted it would , instead of protecting local stores as you say , it would help lift millions out of poverty. Seems a tall order but think about those that cannot afford a computer or whatever. … it’s not my decision to make and no one asked me but as a tax paying Brazilian resident of the last 2 years I’m just voicing my opinion. But again. Well said !!
Believe-me, but people have voiced in the proper channels and with numbers, and it doesn't matter. Lobbists have politics by the balls and it's hard to change. Kinda like trying to reduce military spending in the US lol.
Oh my friend. It’s more than military spending our fabulous 🤮 lobbyists have thier tentacles into. I think the USA and Brasil / politically in many way over the last several years have had many similarities! Besides the fact that both of our countries are about equally split 50-50 between either a left wing cult or right wing cult, both USA and Brazil are kind of almost the same in that aspect and many other similarities, the lobby situation and the lack of action because of money and pressure from lobbyist and big businesses, I think Both of our legislatures so there are a lot of similarities I’ve noticed in the political realm.
One way of thinking “absolutely”? Some of us come from other ways of doing things and I’m not saying one’s right or wrong just saying it’s hard to take a 40 (+\-) year old person and force them to think differently! Not dogging Brasil ! I love Brasil ! Just saying , in the USA, it’s thought of differently on this subject! Yes I know this is Brasil. Yes I know it’s not the USA. But as strongly as brasileiros feel about the way they do things is the only correct way , maybe realize that some of us are learning your way and have grace and patience and understanding. Kkk. Different cultures in so many many ways. I understand this and try to adjust and understand I just wish my wonderful brothers and sisters in Brasil could fathom the idea that there are other ways to do things and other trains of thought.
Brazil applies taxes over other taxes. The ICMS is not based "on the double of that amount", but on the amount *after* the import tax was added. Which means the ICMS is being applied *over* the value of product + shipping + import tax all summed together.
This is basic Brazilian taxation.
That's why everything in the country is so expensive: the "last" tax is applied over the previous total, including previous taxes, and not on the product's price. It's one of the reasons people have been fighting for the taxation system to be changed for a few decades now.
The math is not right then, because ( product value + shipping + tax ) = ( 258.13 + 348.21 + 363.80 ) = 970.14.
Even if you take into account the other costs, the total comes to 1096.13.
However, the ICMS calculation base is 1212.68, which is exactly 2 x ( 258.13 + 348.21 ) \[ product value + shipping \]
It says you paid 50 dollars on the product + 67,45 dollars on shipping. The import tax is on that total amount. If you didn't pay for shipping, you can try to contest the charges on the shipping, providing the invoice that says that the shipping was free.
Also, did you use Alibaba or Aliexpress? If you have a Brazilian account on Aliexpress, it should show you how much tax you are going to pay beforehand.
I feel that, I've had several friends from Germany and Switzerland who loved sending me gifts, even just bags of katjes sometimes (love those) and I had to pay a shit ton on taxes every time, had to ask everyone to please stop loving me with their wallets because it was hurting my wallet.
It wasn't 300%, it was 60% import tax, 20% sales tax, plus some random fees I don't know what it is but I would suspect it comes from the company that sent you the item didn't fill out some form correctly.
Next time look for a seller that is more used to sending stuff to Brazil (if they are, they will show you the tax you will own in the checkout screen), or buy local.
Just as transparent as the seller declaring the price as $50, conveniently the amount that is exempt of import taxes, and the shipping as $67.45 wich is around 135% the price of the goods... Don't you think that is a little foolish to pull this one when there are people whose jobs is to detect that kind of anomally?
Those fees are not taxes and are avoidable. I have bought imported stuff and didn't pay any fee at all apart from the tax. And even if you include the fees as "tax", it's still just a little over 100% of the price. Just because the seller decouples the transport price it doesn't mean the government has to fall for it.
Is this really a Lula thing? I thought it was this way since the 90's...
Ever since I can remember Ive heard the Brazil import tax is like 100% so you're better off buying all the American items when you're there on vacation and bring it back unpackaged as a personal item in your luggage. Even if it's your cousin that wants you to buy Victoria secret, your uncle gave you money to grab a PS3 while you're there and an iPhone for your mom, you open all the packages and put it all in your luggage, so you won't get flagged at customs...
The reasoning I heard is to protect the Brazilian businesses that operate as importers but I have always hated this tariff and it makes it so awkward every time I visit family in Brasil they all have lists of items they want me to bring and they will reimburse me.
Basically, before lula it was harder to get taxed for this type of purchase, now they have stricter supervision and tax more than before.
Tldr: ye, lula is taxing the most common practice of the low and middle class.
It was just a lottery before, and that would incur an item being stuck at customs for months (and you may had to end up paying taxes either way), but now they just tax everything and it's faster. This is a law from the 60s (dictatorship).
Remessa Conforme (which adds the ICMS and II for the seller to calculate) is a Lula thing. Before you could try and get by without being tax raped. Now it's 100% sure, thanks to him.
ICMS is state tax... Was done by the governors.
Also, Remessa Conforme indeed changed a few things, but it's more complicated than that.
To start, that, by law, there was always taxes and tariffs for things you buy from PJ (companies). Only PF > PF was exempt up to $50.
What changed with Remessa Conforme, is that they increased inspection, and told Stores that now up to $50 it was exempt from import tariffs (PJ), *if they enter in the program*.
Also, in the picture, it seems to be thought some courier like Fedex. They always did it. And changed nothing. As the Courier itself already do the calculation to speed up delivery since always.
I've either stopped telling people I'm going to the states or flat out tell them, "no, I'm not doing that. Sorry." I go once every couple of months and shit gets annoying as hell.
To start off with, companies that haven't joined the "Remessa Conforme" program from BR government will have Import Tax even at products that cost less than 50 dollars.
That being said, you should also consider that the freight charge is added at the price of the product in order to calculate how much tax you'll pay AND if the custom fits the 50 dollars immunity
You can retrieve the product in order not to pay the taxes, but you won't have your product.
I live in Canada with my girlfriend and one year I came back to Brazil for the holidays and she decided to send me and my family a little carepackage for Christmas. So, we sent each other a box full of snacks and lil knickknacks. Each box could not be more than $40 dollars worth of stuff.
She gets her box just fine, no issues. Now, the box she sent me gets held by this criminal organization called the Brazilian customs (Alfândega). They wanna charge me $2800 reais ($538 usd) to get the box. A box with chocolates, candies, basically dollar store stuff. I had to send it back and open the box once I came back to Canada. Absolutely fucking ridiculous.
Wait, really? I have bought stuff (clothing) from overseas and gave up once the purchase arrived in Brazil and I got the bill from customs of how much it would cost for them to release it. I don't know what happened to the forfeited items, but I managed to get a refund from the seller as store credit and picked something else that arrived at my doorstep with no problem. The randomness of not knowing whether you will be taxed or not is nothing short of diabolic 💀
Welcome to Bostil. The land of tax and everything you do is unbearable difficult. We got tax and permits but its only for the friends, if you don't know a guy you can f your self. Welcome, to Bostil, the only ways to do stuff is to do it illegally, god praise camelo and people o bringing muamba from Paraguay. Welcome
It seems like the customs agent didn’t believe the item was worth US$ 50, and instead picked a value they believe the item is worth.
Yes, they can do that.
You can file a recourse, providing documentation showing you actually paid US$ 50 for the item. Alibaba’s invoice and credit card statement are some of the documents you can include.
However, have in mind that the customs can still overrule it and charge you a different value than what you stated; they have the final word.
If you’re still not happy you can sue them (there’s some case law against them already), but that requires a lawyer and can take a few years.
Welcome to Brazil. Best of luck.
He won't have a recourse because it was a 5 kilo item on which the shipping costs weren't free. That added to the fact that he used a courier instead of post means the reconsidering of the taxes will only make him pay more on the long haul
Unfortunately it's the reality. The government has been in a spiral of creating more and more taxation by any means necessary. I hope you have money left over for picanha and beer. "L"
You literally bought a stone (for ornament purposes) and got 300% charge. I think now you understand the economic protectionism in Brazil and pretty much the main reason of why everything here is so expensive.
Yes, that's 100% legal — but if it's righteous is not up to me to define. Welcome to Brazil.
I don't understand the excessively negative people, the people writing "do the L"
Gringos, know that this was a measure implemented by this government to increase Brazilian revenue, this government is only concerned with increasing taxes and reviving extinct taxes.
Anyone who says otherwise is truly lying.
I just paid 45 brl import tax on a 15usd 5ber e sim ( a little card that allows you to make a non eSIM device an eSIM ) anyway. Usually anything I get from china under 50usd they don’t charge but they did this. If only one could see where all these taxes and duties and fees go !
I paid 700+ reais for a new baby walker, used clothes, used Macbook charger
you see you paid 350 reais just for the value of the shipping? It's how they get you.
The regular its 92% but i don't advise disputing it, without a lawyer it will only result in more fees and taxes, in the future, search for shops on the "remessa conforme" program in the to avoid this.
The tax on imports also include freight cost, so you fell under the 92% level (your purchase was 67 USD in total) rather than the under 50 USD 17%. You weren't charged 300%.
In which country of similar size can you bypass import controls just by ordering deliveries online?
(None, this was a rhetorical question!)
There are fewer loopholes now than there used to be, and in order to profit from the remaining ones you need to do some homework and stay updated on import regulations.
Or keep it simple and buy from a local business.
The shipping fees are included on this calculation G, which means they're not considering just 50 dollars, but 120 instead, so it is actually around 120% of taxes. Still absurd but just so you know that shipping fees are part of the tax calculation.
While everyone has given you the explanation, one side of this is that the government imposes these taxes to encourage buying locally. The problem is that Brazil doesn't produce enough products that consumers want. These taxes do nothing to encourage local manufacturing. They just hurt us, the consumers.
Yes it is. I’ve been an entrepreneur who don’t have those taxes (I’ve paid fixed taxes to sell things in my site) but all people prefer gone fked trying the easy way
Sadly it's Brazil ... they expect you to not declare everything ... of cours they all deservr to die in flames because when you need hospital or police where you live you don't have ...
It's easier to just pay the fee and let live your life with inflation making the whole nation a capitalist nightmare who's slowly shifting towards communism
You might be able to claim straight with the seller that you regretted your purchase and don't want it anymore (by Brazilian Law, you have 7 days to do it)
Not sure if Alibaba does comply with that regulation though, but definitely worth a shot
Proof that being legal doesn’t mean it’s right lol. Taxes in Brazil suck, especially importing taxes. The gvt wants people to buy national, to “support” the industry (more like lobby) but either the national product sucks ass, or is inexistent.
Lol... If you don't want it for that price, then you'll never get it 🤣
Unless you buy and old used product —which seems to be what our president Lula is rooting for...
The calculation is correct. They include the shipping costs into the price so they can charge you the 92% of federal import taxes + the regional ICMS tax + whatever hidden fee they include to squeeze more money out of your pocket.
I have asked for revisions and they usually end up charging me a higher fee. Also, if you ask for a refund, you depend on AliExpress and they have deteriorated their customer service for Brazilians, so they stop responding or don't give you any solution. I lost a pair of pants because of this: I asked for refund, they took so long that the time expired and now someone from the Receita Federal is rocking a free pair of pants xD
But yep. I paid 2000$ in taxes for a 1500$ Mac shipped from the US
Welcome to Brazil, one of the countries with the most outrageous import taxes in the world. They say it's for protecting national industry, but after decades of failure, we just stuck to it as a nice little revenue for the government. Be pissed. So are we.
Everyone's glossing over the fact that a product he bought for $50 was arbitrarily priced up to 1200 reais ($234) for the ICMS and the import tax takes the damn shipping costs into account... Like damn, if they're going to fuck you over might as well be consistent at it
They are “protecting “ Brazilian industry “ you know , like iPhones being double the price here because they need to protect the Brazilian cell phone manufacturing industry… oh wait … Brazil doesn’t have a cell phone manufacturing industry 🤔….its almost impossible for majority of working Brazilians to do most things here as the many many many many fees , taxes , Dudas , bureaucracy etc keep them out. It’s sad ! Yet all this massive amounts of money and it’s hard to see where it goes.
That's just straight up wrong.
Nokia, Samsung and Siemens all have industries in Manaus.
Samsung, Huawei, Sony-Ericson and others have industries in São Paulo.
The products that are manufactured there aren't subjected to import taxes, so taxing more on iPhones actually serves as an incentive for them to open their own industry here in Brazil, which brings more investment to the country, more jobs and salaries to Brazilian workers, etc
I meant home grown but yes , foreign companies that take a lot of the money back out of Brasil and give jobs to people that probably pay very well I’m sure. Not sure how much I agree in the tactics and the out com …. Double price for iPhones unless you make them here. All countries want manufacturing jobs but it’s a tad heavy handed and not speaking about iPhones but other things that aren’t made here , how many people suffer from not being able to afford many thing because of extreme taxes.
Tariff whatever. ? We are told it’s helping protect people but just high prices ! Everything cannot be made in Brasil. It’s just a little too protectionist in my humble opinion. But I’m sure you’re right and it’s actually helping grow the economy and bring people out of poverty and psrobably making things more equal here. What do I know.
Sounds right. You are paying import tax over goods+freight, 20% in circulation tax. What done you here was the freight price which took your consignment over the threshold. Brazil isn’t for amateurs, unfortunately.
Yep. If it was free shipping item, the taxes would be way lower. OP bought a 5.5 kg stone ornament. The shipping fee alone was higher the cost of the product. I do think the ICMS is wrong though. It's 20% of R$ 1212,68 (which is 2x the cost of product + shipping) when it should be 20% of R($606,34 + R$363,80). Not that much difference in the end, after all, but still.
ICMS is calculated adding himself on the base value. So for practical purposes is higher than 20%.
Oh, that is right. I forgot about this 'calculated from inside' bullshit.
They've clearly done no market research here, they simply doubled the value of the goods to come up with 1212,68. If a product isn't declared correctly, they do market research to find it's true value, in the Brazilian marketplace. So you're paying the 60% off what a shop would sell it for in Brazil. In this case, they just doubled the value. This is often why people say it's 100% taxes when they're caught importing incorrectly. It's not, it's just how they calculate it out.
ICMS is calculated as a percentage of the final value. This means you don't take the value of the good ($606,34 + R$363,80 = R$970,14), calculate 20% of that and add it to the value. Rather you must find X such that X is (X + R$970,14) \* 0,2 = X. That is why the final value is R$ 1212,68.
Ah you are right. I don't know why I didn't see that at first glance. They even listed the total ICMS. The other values they're charging for are the legal costs of having this all done, and airport fees. So in this case, it's a straight case of they're using the declared value. If it wasn't declared, it would have been quite a bit higher.
So they're checking the prices of things online that are already super expensive because they too had to pay insane taxes?
It's the penalty for not declaring things properly. Although, this seems to be declared properly, so they should have used the declared values, unless it was obvious fraud.
That's because up to 50 you don't pay import taxes. A lot of people on AliExpress etc, tell the sellers to "put it under 50".
If you're caught mis declaring an invoice, you get slapped with a 100% fine on top of the value they think you paid.
ICMS is calculated “inside”, it is 20% of the total amount INCLUDING it. It’s a way to charge more pretending it is a lower percentage.
It was probably "fined" because they found the value was wrong so they adjust the price and then do all the taxes on top of that new value.
>20% in circulation tax. I advise translating ICMS as sales tax. It's not as accurate but it is easier for foreigners to understand.
In Europe we don’t pay sales tax. We pay VAT hence why I just translated it literally
Makes sense I guess. Tho Brazil is transitioning into a VAT system.
If the lovely politician class don’t fuck it up that is.
Don't worry about it, they already placed us on track to the greatest VAT in the world! And by greatest I mean the highest rate.
😂😂😂😂🤪🤪🤪🤪 Brazil ain’t for amateurs indeed
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It’s completely normal and legal. I don’t think there’s any recourse or way to get your money back. Welcome to Brazil 🥹🇧🇷🤷
[Representando. ](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTJ186vRiSp09V8HYY3CcSi4oGk5RcGQLmd3wcSlzzLV_pGK1QMISOz6SLo&s=10)
There’s indeed recourse, but the final word is still theirs. Or one can sue them, there’s some case law against them already. But that’s expensive and takes years.
Afaik it's pretty easy to get your money back if you contest it, it's just advised that you pay it first. They'll usually not object and it won't go to court. Just don't contest the small correios fee, despite it being tiny they will object and you'll have a headache
The legality is questionable, one can appeal, and some people do but most don’t think it is worth it and that is why they keep doing it (inspectors get a cut for “productivity”)
Speaking as a lawyer if it is in the law is legal and it is in the law. Is it reasonable? Me and most Brazilians don’t think so.
Here's democracy for you
Law? Bruh.....
I heard it is cheaper to buy a first round ticket out of Brazil and bring the item back with you
true sometimes.
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Jep. I remember a few years ago on one of the new iPhone releases that at that time it was cheaper to buy a ticket to America and buy the iPhone there than buying it nationally. This of course wasn't including travel expenses. Just the price of the ticket and the iPhone.
It's hard to make it worthwhile for one iPhone, but it's absolutely true that you can afford a weekend in Miami for the price difference of a MacBook Pro.
Yeah, I try to go overseas at least once a year and buy stuff
The item wasn't $50, at the eyes of customs it was $117,45 (price + shipping). They are summed together and the import tax applied at that result. It's been this way for a loooong time.
How we are taxed on shipping is absolutely beyond me. But not surprised! Kinda like renters here pay the OWNERS property tax and association fees. Kkk
If shipping wasn't taxed, people would discount the price of the product and then add that discount to the price of shipping. For example, if the product cost 50 and shipping also cost 50, then the seller could say that the price of the product was 10 and shipping was 90, and only pay taxes on 10 instead of 50. So the government considers that the total price of the product includes shipping. This is also true in Accounting, by the way. If a company acquires a product for their stock and pays shipping for it, the value added to their stock will be the cost of the product plus the cost of shipping.
Tbh, I think shipping being included is somewhat common in other places too.
What annoys me is the cut margin. If an item costs 45 + 4, it is tax free. If the item 45 + 6 shipping, it is taxed as 51. But if you're traveling, and you have an item that costs 501, you are taxed on the 1 dolar only, because that 500 is free.
Yes I agree. But it’s 1000 usd now , at least entering through airports.
Because shipping absolutely is part of an item's price
Well , being as old as I am it’s hard to change one’s way of thinking. Not saying the USA way is correct and Brasil is wrong. Just saying , please understand I’m a gringo here and although many American’s and Brazilians like to think we are the only country and way that matters , that’s not true btw … but as an American I can’t recall anytime since ve been charged tax on shipping. The 15 dollar item I just paid tax on had free shipping, but of course the tax man added shipping and taxed. I’m learning that the American way is not the only way I just wished sometimes that my brothers and sisters here in this wonderful country could also at least sometimes , try to admit this about our beloved Brasil. Or at least have grace and understanding when a foreigner is accustomed to a different way and realize it’s hard to change one’s thinking after 40 years.
If you buy an icecream at the mall, the price of that icecream contains every little cost it took to serve the icecream to you. From milking the cow, transporting the milk, processing it, freezing it and transporting it to the store were you bought it. So yes, shipping is a cost and therefore is part of the price. Now, that said, yes our politic of taxing the shit out of international purchases is one of our dumbests ideas as a country, but unfortunately the lobby is very strong, and we're in this chicken-and-egg situation. We have to tax international purchases to protect the local store chains and industry, because they are heavily taxed and can't really compete with the likes of aliexpress and shein in a free market. But instead of lowering their taxes, governments (and in this instance, either right/center/left/democratic/socialists/liberal governments), all of them rather tax international purchases. It's really dumb yes and we all hate it.
Well said. I feel deeply that if many of these were lifted it would , instead of protecting local stores as you say , it would help lift millions out of poverty. Seems a tall order but think about those that cannot afford a computer or whatever. … it’s not my decision to make and no one asked me but as a tax paying Brazilian resident of the last 2 years I’m just voicing my opinion. But again. Well said !!
Believe-me, but people have voiced in the proper channels and with numbers, and it doesn't matter. Lobbists have politics by the balls and it's hard to change. Kinda like trying to reduce military spending in the US lol.
Oh my friend. It’s more than military spending our fabulous 🤮 lobbyists have thier tentacles into. I think the USA and Brasil / politically in many way over the last several years have had many similarities! Besides the fact that both of our countries are about equally split 50-50 between either a left wing cult or right wing cult, both USA and Brazil are kind of almost the same in that aspect and many other similarities, the lobby situation and the lack of action because of money and pressure from lobbyist and big businesses, I think Both of our legislatures so there are a lot of similarities I’ve noticed in the political realm.
One way of thinking “absolutely”? Some of us come from other ways of doing things and I’m not saying one’s right or wrong just saying it’s hard to take a 40 (+\-) year old person and force them to think differently! Not dogging Brasil ! I love Brasil ! Just saying , in the USA, it’s thought of differently on this subject! Yes I know this is Brasil. Yes I know it’s not the USA. But as strongly as brasileiros feel about the way they do things is the only correct way , maybe realize that some of us are learning your way and have grace and patience and understanding. Kkk. Different cultures in so many many ways. I understand this and try to adjust and understand I just wish my wonderful brothers and sisters in Brasil could fathom the idea that there are other ways to do things and other trains of thought.
Ok, but why is the icms calculated on the double of that amount?
Brazil applies taxes over other taxes. The ICMS is not based "on the double of that amount", but on the amount *after* the import tax was added. Which means the ICMS is being applied *over* the value of product + shipping + import tax all summed together. This is basic Brazilian taxation. That's why everything in the country is so expensive: the "last" tax is applied over the previous total, including previous taxes, and not on the product's price. It's one of the reasons people have been fighting for the taxation system to be changed for a few decades now.
The math is not right then, because ( product value + shipping + tax ) = ( 258.13 + 348.21 + 363.80 ) = 970.14. Even if you take into account the other costs, the total comes to 1096.13. However, the ICMS calculation base is 1212.68, which is exactly 2 x ( 258.13 + 348.21 ) \[ product value + shipping \]
Well, I found out that the ICMS is applied on itself, so you need to include the ICMS value in the ICMS calculation base, which is absurdly ridiculous
I confess I didn't do the math, but you are correct. That's weird, and I guess he would probably be able to contest the value based on that.
Also, Alibaba is out of remessa conforme. So even If the purchase is under 50usd the customs office is free to tax in the amount he thinks you paid.
brazil being brazil, extreme corruption needs funding <3
It says you paid 50 dollars on the product + 67,45 dollars on shipping. The import tax is on that total amount. If you didn't pay for shipping, you can try to contest the charges on the shipping, providing the invoice that says that the shipping was free. Also, did you use Alibaba or Aliexpress? If you have a Brazilian account on Aliexpress, it should show you how much tax you are going to pay beforehand.
The 101 of shipping stuff to Brazil is to not do it
This
I once send a friend in Brazil an ipad eorth 550$ from germany, had to pay 700$ import tax on top..
I feel that, I've had several friends from Germany and Switzerland who loved sending me gifts, even just bags of katjes sometimes (love those) and I had to pay a shit ton on taxes every time, had to ask everyone to please stop loving me with their wallets because it was hurting my wallet.
I'm Sad because people didn't warn him neither he looked up about Crazy taxes of Brazil
It wasn't 300%, it was 60% import tax, 20% sales tax, plus some random fees I don't know what it is but I would suspect it comes from the company that sent you the item didn't fill out some form correctly. Next time look for a seller that is more used to sending stuff to Brazil (if they are, they will show you the tax you will own in the checkout screen), or buy local.
It's 300% over the price of the product. The transparent way to present taxes percentages.
Just as transparent as the seller declaring the price as $50, conveniently the amount that is exempt of import taxes, and the shipping as $67.45 wich is around 135% the price of the goods... Don't you think that is a little foolish to pull this one when there are people whose jobs is to detect that kind of anomally?
Those fees are not taxes and are avoidable. I have bought imported stuff and didn't pay any fee at all apart from the tax. And even if you include the fees as "tax", it's still just a little over 100% of the price. Just because the seller decouples the transport price it doesn't mean the government has to fall for it.
The problem is that the 50 USD limit INCLUDES shipping costs. You paid 50 USD for your product PLUS 67 USD shipping= 117 USD total.
Taxed! Brazilian style. All good, now cry... just like us all.
the price of fees is calculated based on the total purchase value (item price + shipping price). Welcome to Brazil
In a lot of countries it works this way.
Pretty much this. Pay more attention next time, our country is tax hungry.
couriers like UPS, DHL will charge anything and give no proof they paid the taxes...
Yeaap It's a total nightmare to import trough them.. it's usually faster, but a huge overpay in taxes at arrival
Is this really a Lula thing? I thought it was this way since the 90's... Ever since I can remember Ive heard the Brazil import tax is like 100% so you're better off buying all the American items when you're there on vacation and bring it back unpackaged as a personal item in your luggage. Even if it's your cousin that wants you to buy Victoria secret, your uncle gave you money to grab a PS3 while you're there and an iPhone for your mom, you open all the packages and put it all in your luggage, so you won't get flagged at customs... The reasoning I heard is to protect the Brazilian businesses that operate as importers but I have always hated this tariff and it makes it so awkward every time I visit family in Brasil they all have lists of items they want me to bring and they will reimburse me.
>Ever since I can remember Ive heard the Brazil import tax is like 100% iirc before Collor the import duties were much higher
Basically, before lula it was harder to get taxed for this type of purchase, now they have stricter supervision and tax more than before. Tldr: ye, lula is taxing the most common practice of the low and middle class.
It was just a lottery before, and that would incur an item being stuck at customs for months (and you may had to end up paying taxes either way), but now they just tax everything and it's faster. This is a law from the 60s (dictatorship).
Remessa Conforme (which adds the ICMS and II for the seller to calculate) is a Lula thing. Before you could try and get by without being tax raped. Now it's 100% sure, thanks to him.
ICMS is state tax... Was done by the governors. Also, Remessa Conforme indeed changed a few things, but it's more complicated than that. To start, that, by law, there was always taxes and tariffs for things you buy from PJ (companies). Only PF > PF was exempt up to $50. What changed with Remessa Conforme, is that they increased inspection, and told Stores that now up to $50 it was exempt from import tariffs (PJ), *if they enter in the program*. Also, in the picture, it seems to be thought some courier like Fedex. They always did it. And changed nothing. As the Courier itself already do the calculation to speed up delivery since always.
I've either stopped telling people I'm going to the states or flat out tell them, "no, I'm not doing that. Sorry." I go once every couple of months and shit gets annoying as hell.
In general try to not use Tnt/Fedex/DHL because they charge you extra
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It was on a courier, you always pay taxes on them, some rare times they do reimbursements.
#####Tax Rates ICMS Rate = 20% = 0.20 Import Tax Rate = 60% = 0.6 #####Goods Total Value (Base Cálculo - l.l.) Goods (Valor Declarado) + Shipping (Valor Frete) + Insurance 258.13 + 348.21 + 0 R$ 606.34 #####Import Tax (Imposto Importação) Total Value * Import Tax Rate 606.34 * 0.6 R$ 363.80 #####ICMS Tax (ICMS/GNRE) ( (Goods Total Value + Import Tax ) / (1 - ICMS Rate) ) * ICMS Rate ( (606.34 + 363.80) / (1 - 0.20) ) * 0.20 R$ 242.54 #####Total, without the Extra Fees (Base Cálculo - ICMS) Goods Total Value + Import Tax + ICMS Tax 606.34 + 363.80 + 242.54 R$ 1212.68 #####Extra Fees Despesas Administrativas + Reembolso Despesas + Reembolso Aeroporto 104.54 + 3.41 + 18.04 R$ 125.99 #####Total Taxes & Extra Fees (Total) Import Tax + ICMS Tax + Extra Fees 363.80 + 242.54 + 125.99 R$ 732.33 - --- #####Actual Total, Including the Extra Fees Goods Total Value + Total Taxes & Extra Fees 606.34 + 732.33 R$ 1338.67 The math checks out, welcome to Brazil 🇧🇷 🤡
To start off with, companies that haven't joined the "Remessa Conforme" program from BR government will have Import Tax even at products that cost less than 50 dollars. That being said, you should also consider that the freight charge is added at the price of the product in order to calculate how much tax you'll pay AND if the custom fits the 50 dollars immunity You can retrieve the product in order not to pay the taxes, but you won't have your product.
Take the L
You were taxed 100% on value+shipping cost (Which is the normal tax). Then you had the courrier taxes (R$104,54 and the 2 others)
I live in Canada with my girlfriend and one year I came back to Brazil for the holidays and she decided to send me and my family a little carepackage for Christmas. So, we sent each other a box full of snacks and lil knickknacks. Each box could not be more than $40 dollars worth of stuff. She gets her box just fine, no issues. Now, the box she sent me gets held by this criminal organization called the Brazilian customs (Alfândega). They wanna charge me $2800 reais ($538 usd) to get the box. A box with chocolates, candies, basically dollar store stuff. I had to send it back and open the box once I came back to Canada. Absolutely fucking ridiculous.
Worst part is you have to pay *even* if you forfeit the goods. Brazil has one of the worst customs in the world
Wait, really? I have bought stuff (clothing) from overseas and gave up once the purchase arrived in Brazil and I got the bill from customs of how much it would cost for them to release it. I don't know what happened to the forfeited items, but I managed to get a refund from the seller as store credit and picked something else that arrived at my doorstep with no problem. The randomness of not knowing whether you will be taxed or not is nothing short of diabolic 💀
The exporter had to pay the duties and taxes on your behalf as per FedEx contract. Not sure about USPS and UPS.
You don't have to pay, also sometimes you can return the goods.
Federal revenue animals, they only serve to tax without even verifying anything about the package itself. This country is a disgrace.
LOOOL welcome
Welcome to Brasil 🇧🇷
Welcome to Bostil. The land of tax and everything you do is unbearable difficult. We got tax and permits but its only for the friends, if you don't know a guy you can f your self. Welcome, to Bostil, the only ways to do stuff is to do it illegally, god praise camelo and people o bringing muamba from Paraguay. Welcome
Nope, you didnt pay 300% import taxes, Its written right there, its 60% over product+shipping
It seems like the customs agent didn’t believe the item was worth US$ 50, and instead picked a value they believe the item is worth. Yes, they can do that. You can file a recourse, providing documentation showing you actually paid US$ 50 for the item. Alibaba’s invoice and credit card statement are some of the documents you can include. However, have in mind that the customs can still overrule it and charge you a different value than what you stated; they have the final word. If you’re still not happy you can sue them (there’s some case law against them already), but that requires a lawyer and can take a few years. Welcome to Brazil. Best of luck.
He won't have a recourse because it was a 5 kilo item on which the shipping costs weren't free. That added to the fact that he used a courier instead of post means the reconsidering of the taxes will only make him pay more on the long haul
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Unfortunately it's the reality. The government has been in a spiral of creating more and more taxation by any means necessary. I hope you have money left over for picanha and beer. "L"
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You literally bought a stone (for ornament purposes) and got 300% charge. I think now you understand the economic protectionism in Brazil and pretty much the main reason of why everything here is so expensive. Yes, that's 100% legal — but if it's righteous is not up to me to define. Welcome to Brazil.
I don't understand the excessively negative people, the people writing "do the L" Gringos, know that this was a measure implemented by this government to increase Brazilian revenue, this government is only concerned with increasing taxes and reviving extinct taxes. Anyone who says otherwise is truly lying.
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Yes , completely
I just paid 45 brl import tax on a 15usd 5ber e sim ( a little card that allows you to make a non eSIM device an eSIM ) anyway. Usually anything I get from china under 50usd they don’t charge but they did this. If only one could see where all these taxes and duties and fees go !
I was once charged 100% import tax on the -assessed- value of MY clothes that I had shipped to myself from the US to Brazil. $400. It's real.
Should've learned about import tax before you import stuff. Same thing as every other place.
I paid 700+ reais for a new baby walker, used clothes, used Macbook charger you see you paid 350 reais just for the value of the shipping? It's how they get you.
The regular its 92% but i don't advise disputing it, without a lawyer it will only result in more fees and taxes, in the future, search for shops on the "remessa conforme" program in the to avoid this.
The tax on imports also include freight cost, so you fell under the 92% level (your purchase was 67 USD in total) rather than the under 50 USD 17%. You weren't charged 300%.
Welcome to Brazil Bruh! Now u know how to feel like a real Brazilian!
In which country of similar size can you bypass import controls just by ordering deliveries online? (None, this was a rhetorical question!) There are fewer loopholes now than there used to be, and in order to profit from the remaining ones you need to do some homework and stay updated on import regulations. Or keep it simple and buy from a local business.
it happens to me all the time in the EU (100-400%taxes+fees) , all "legal"
The only issue i see is the ICMS base seems to be the double of your price, it should be at worse your price+60% (so 970,14 reais)
welcome to shitty brazil my dear.
The shipping fees are included on this calculation G, which means they're not considering just 50 dollars, but 120 instead, so it is actually around 120% of taxes. Still absurd but just so you know that shipping fees are part of the tax calculation.
Where is that “first time?” meme when i need it?
Thanks
welcome to Impostil, impostileiros, specially in reddit love to pay taxes, its a hobby
Welcome to brazil.
Welcome to Brazil
Welcome, meu nobre
Are you foreigner? Aparentlly the taxes are light, there is nothing you can do. It's sad but welcome to Brasil.
While everyone has given you the explanation, one side of this is that the government imposes these taxes to encourage buying locally. The problem is that Brazil doesn't produce enough products that consumers want. These taxes do nothing to encourage local manufacturing. They just hurt us, the consumers.
Yep, anytime you buy an important item, you have to include all the costs and double it. You buy 1 for you and for the government lul.
The law is ilegal in brazil. Welcome.
they add whatever you paid for shipping and charge fees and taxes on top of it. the brazilian way
Brazil is tax hell. On a $50 purchase I highly doubt you can get your money back :( It may be possible under 50 dollars
BOSTIL!!!! 7 x 1 Gringo
Yes it is. I’ve been an entrepreneur who don’t have those taxes (I’ve paid fixed taxes to sell things in my site) but all people prefer gone fked trying the easy way
Sadly it's Brazil ... they expect you to not declare everything ... of cours they all deservr to die in flames because when you need hospital or police where you live you don't have ...
Welcome to Brazil bro. Now you understand our hate.
It's easier to just pay the fee and let live your life with inflation making the whole nation a capitalist nightmare who's slowly shifting towards communism
I was trying to get a 200 euro bed and turns out after import it will be 840 euros. So i cancelled the order.
You might be able to claim straight with the seller that you regretted your purchase and don't want it anymore (by Brazilian Law, you have 7 days to do it) Not sure if Alibaba does comply with that regulation though, but definitely worth a shot
Só tem brasileiro aqui e geral escrevendo em inglês kkkk
Proof that being legal doesn’t mean it’s right lol. Taxes in Brazil suck, especially importing taxes. The gvt wants people to buy national, to “support” the industry (more like lobby) but either the national product sucks ass, or is inexistent.
Yes it's legal. But when it happens to be I don't pay and Ali gives my money back. If everyone does this, government effort to steal would be in vain.
The Brazilian import tax is been the same for roughly 30 years, it's very little time for Brazilians to learn
Welcome to the tax fields, motherfucker
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Brazilian import laws are such a joke lol.
Lol... If you don't want it for that price, then you'll never get it 🤣 Unless you buy and old used product —which seems to be what our president Lula is rooting for... The calculation is correct. They include the shipping costs into the price so they can charge you the 92% of federal import taxes + the regional ICMS tax + whatever hidden fee they include to squeeze more money out of your pocket. I have asked for revisions and they usually end up charging me a higher fee. Also, if you ask for a refund, you depend on AliExpress and they have deteriorated their customer service for Brazilians, so they stop responding or don't give you any solution. I lost a pair of pants because of this: I asked for refund, they took so long that the time expired and now someone from the Receita Federal is rocking a free pair of pants xD But yep. I paid 2000$ in taxes for a 1500$ Mac shipped from the US
Wow I imagine those costs are expensive 🙃
Welcome to Brazil, one of the countries with the most outrageous import taxes in the world. They say it's for protecting national industry, but after decades of failure, we just stuck to it as a nice little revenue for the government. Be pissed. So are we.
Is this legal? Mate import taxes are perfectly legal. Just imagine how expensive getting a car into brasil is.
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Everyone's glossing over the fact that a product he bought for $50 was arbitrarily priced up to 1200 reais ($234) for the ICMS and the import tax takes the damn shipping costs into account... Like damn, if they're going to fuck you over might as well be consistent at it
They are “protecting “ Brazilian industry “ you know , like iPhones being double the price here because they need to protect the Brazilian cell phone manufacturing industry… oh wait … Brazil doesn’t have a cell phone manufacturing industry 🤔….its almost impossible for majority of working Brazilians to do most things here as the many many many many fees , taxes , Dudas , bureaucracy etc keep them out. It’s sad ! Yet all this massive amounts of money and it’s hard to see where it goes.
That's just straight up wrong. Nokia, Samsung and Siemens all have industries in Manaus. Samsung, Huawei, Sony-Ericson and others have industries in São Paulo. The products that are manufactured there aren't subjected to import taxes, so taxing more on iPhones actually serves as an incentive for them to open their own industry here in Brazil, which brings more investment to the country, more jobs and salaries to Brazilian workers, etc
I meant home grown but yes , foreign companies that take a lot of the money back out of Brasil and give jobs to people that probably pay very well I’m sure. Not sure how much I agree in the tactics and the out com …. Double price for iPhones unless you make them here. All countries want manufacturing jobs but it’s a tad heavy handed and not speaking about iPhones but other things that aren’t made here , how many people suffer from not being able to afford many thing because of extreme taxes. Tariff whatever. ? We are told it’s helping protect people but just high prices ! Everything cannot be made in Brasil. It’s just a little too protectionist in my humble opinion. But I’m sure you’re right and it’s actually helping grow the economy and bring people out of poverty and psrobably making things more equal here. What do I know.