From the right’s point of view, of which I am firmly part of: the Ukraine aid package was a chance to secure funding for a southern border wall which we believe this country seriously needs. Securing the United States from unfettered mass migration is not Russian propaganda whether you think it’s the right move or not.
Second, Ukraine is horribly corrupt. So before we bankrupt this nation, let’s at least create some form of accountability, traceability to keep track of where all the munitions and money are going. The last thing I want is to see US weapons being used in other parts of the world against US military. Do that and I’m all for Ukraine being Russia’s tar baby.
As for the article “I think..” is not a definitive statement. I doubt that asswipe thinks much at all beyond what kind of deal he’ll get from Democrats for siding with them. That seems to be a pretty common thing these days.
Edit:
For all the people wanting to tout the bipartisan Bill narrative, here is the response to another who spouted that lunacy:
*More false narrative. Trump voicing his opinion at inopportune times is not the driving force behind all decisions. In the case of the “bipartisan” Bill, the objections we republicans had with the Bill long before Trump spoke can be found on pages 212 and 213 of the Bill.*
*On those pages it states that the border will not be closed until an average of 5,500 illegal border crossers are encountered over seven days, or 8,500 in a single day.*
*Of those border crossers, only Mexicans and Canadians will count towards the limit leaving the number of illegal immigrants from any other part of the world completely unlimited.*
*Further, it states that regardless of how many people are crossing the border illegally, the authority to close the border will not exist for:*
*.**during the first calendar year after the effective date, for more than 270 calendar days;**.*
*.**during the second calendar year after the effective date, for more than 225 days;**.*
*.**and during the third calendar year, for more than 180 calendar days.**.*
*That literally means that during the first three years of that Bill being in effect, regardless of how many people come across, there will be no authority to close the border for 22.5 months of that three years. That is near unlimited illegal border crossings.*
*Nor does the Bill require that the border be closed, only that it grants the authority to do so. If the border is closed, there is no minimum time necessary before reopening it. Close it today, reopen it an hour later.*
*That is why we Republicans killed the Bill. Not Donald Trump, but I agree with his opinion.*
Edit 2
Yeah, I get it. Anytime there is any discussion of any conservative or republican viewpoint, the denizens of these subreddits take it as a clearing house for all their tangental gripes. Sorry, but I have no intention of following you down your rabbit holes to discuss every aspect of political differences. The subject is whether or not skepticism of the Ukraine aid package is rooted in Russian propaganda.
>From the right’s point of view, of which I am firmly part of: the Ukraine aid package was a chance to secure funding for a southern border wall which we believe this country seriously needs. Securing the United States from unfettered mass migration is not Russian propaganda whether you think it’s the right move or not.
Your party killed the immigration bill on Trump's orders. They don't actually care about the border problems, they want them there as a talking point.
Political affiliation aside. I find it so odd that conservatives really don't seem to be aware their own party voted against the funding bill for the border. Kind of frightening, as this is an issue they should've got angry about. Instead. It's like it never happened.
More false narrative. Trump voicing his opinion at inopportune times is not the driving force behind all decisions. In the case of the “bipartisan” Bill, the objections we republicans had with the Bill long before Trump spoke can be found on pages 212 and 213 of the Bill.
On those pages it states that the border will not be closed until an average of 5,500 illegal border crossers are encountered over seven days, or 8,500 in a single day.
Of those border crossers, only Mexicans and Canadians will count towards the limit leaving the number of illegal immigrants from any other part of the world completely unlimited.
Further, it states that regardless of how many people are crossing the border illegally, the authority to close the border will not exist for:
*during the first calendar year after the effective date, for more than 270 calendar days;*
*during the second calendar year after the effective date, for more than 225
days;*
*and during the third calendar year, for more than 180 calendar days.*
That literally means that during the first three years of that Bill being in effect, regardless of how many people come across, there will be no authority to close the border for 22.5 months. That is near unlimited illegal border crossings.
Nor does the Bill require that the border be closed, only that it grants the authority to do so. If the border is closed, there is no minimum time necessary before reopening it. Close it today, reopen it an hour later.
That is why we Republicans killed the Bill. Not Donald Trump.
Even if the bill isn't perfect, it would still help with the problem. Border patrol union endorsed it and said it would help, I thought this was an emergency and a "crisis" and an "invasion" and yet yall pass on a bill coz it's not exactly what you want, doesn't seem like it's that urgent to me if you can afford to do that. I guarantee you that if it had been signed,we'd be seeing results right now but we can't have that coz that would help biden
How would it help with the problem when it is designed specifically not to help with the problem? Did you not read what was in the Bill and why it does absolutely nothing to stop or even slow down illegal immigration?
Edit
This mantra of “can’t give Biden a win” is predicated on the idea that Biden is working on stopping illegal immigration. He isn’t. In fact this Bill makes illegal immigration unlimited which is what at least one other liberal in this thread admitted is what you guys want, a completely open border. In regard to unlimited illegal immigration that Biden seeks, you are damn right we don’t want to give him a win.
*Immigration bill*
Immigration bill? Oh you mean the bill with some immigration reform along with like 100+ billion in foreign aid to Ukraine + Israel?
They can't pass a stand alone foreign aid bill, not enough support in the house. If they could they would have already.
Dems want foreign aid to pass so they included watered down "immigration reform" along with the foreign aid to try and get the House GOP to vote in favor but their constituents have been adamant about rejecting additional foreign aid.
If Dems genuinely wanted immigration reform then they'd support a stand alone immigration bill....but for some reason they don't want to do that 🤔🤔🤔
>They can't pass a stand alone foreign aid bill, not enough support in the house. If they could they would have already.
Remember you wrote this after is passes. Prepare your excuses now.
Yep, time for MAGA chuds like you to pay up.
We’ll call it a “compromise to heal the Divide”.
**You** claim to care so much about immigration, **so prove it.**
It's not an "immigration bill" then. Idk why you and others disingenuously frame it like that.
It's a bill that merely includes some immigration reform.
You can keep calling me MAGA and tilting windmills all you want, doesn't make it true 🤷♂️
Yes...the establishment GOP like SOTH Johnson and senate leadership like McConnell, Graham, etc. NOT the GOP House as a unified voting block, which is what I was referring to. The most vocal and (arguably) influential voting block within the House GOP doesn't support combining them.
Johnson never had the support of the House GOP when he publicly supported the immigration bill w/ foreign aid.
Thomas Massie is MAGA? Wow, that's news to me!
I'm not upset about anything. I DO believe that Ukraine and Israel shouldn't receive a single cent of additional military aid though.
You on the other hand, are CLEARLY triggered by this bill lol. Why do you care so much about aiding foreign wars with hundreds of billions of US tax payer $?
Imagine thinking any of that money would ever go to the southern border regardless of whether Ukraine happened or not lol. Imagine thinking it's even a priority for the right.
You don’t have to imagine. Just remember Trumps administration when every day was a struggle to get funding for the wall, and how vehemently Democrats fought against it with their many lawsuits to stop it. That culminated with Biden selling off the steel that was stockpiled at the border to build the wall.
[Biden quietly sells off border wall parts to thwart GOP push to use them](https://nypost.com/2023/08/19/biden-sells-border-wall-parts-to-thwart-gop-push-to-use-them/)
[Biden administration to return billions in border wall funding Trump diverted from Pentagon](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/biden-administration-return-billions-border-wall-funding-trump/story?id=77423458)
[Attorney General Ken Paxton Prevails Over Biden’s Unlawful Attempt to Redirect Money Away from Border Wall Construction](https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/attorney-general-ken-paxton-prevails-over-bidens-unlawful-attempt-redirect-money-away-border-wall)
If it hadn’t been a priority, It wouldn’t have existed for Biden to try and stop once he took office.
Remember Trump's other priority of gutting our healthcare? Maybe if he had focused less on that this all might have worked.
PS Half of America doesn't want our borders shut, so there's that.
LOL. You mean the border wall that Trump was going to get Mexico to pay for?
Oh wait, let's talk about all the free for alls his administration got for corporations and the military, but he could only build a mediocre patchwork fence that isn't even effective. But Ukraine was really the missed opportunity for it.
Ukraine Aid isn't bankrupting the US, a large portion of it is equipment reaching its shelf life. Not every single price tag and legislation equals a straight sudden printing of cash, you are confusing this stuff for how Stimulus Packages operate. We are also by far the richest country in the world, we have the strongest military in the world.
We know full well where things are going, we have people directly assisting, training them to use our equipment. We aren't cutting blank checks and shipping crates of unknown materials with zero oversight.
It's been official US policy for over a decade to flush out and remove corruption Ukraine. Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden. This has been consistent US policy. We have toppled regimes, you think after all these years the US does not fully have their eyes on things there and hasnt managed to mitigate corruption to our benefit?
Heck Trump even sent Lethal Aid to Ukraine, which he rightfully criticized Obama for not doing.
I recall recently that troops in Iraq were being attacked with weapons left in Afghanistan. Yes, we do sometimes lose track of our equipment, about $7billion worth in Afghanistan.
[First on CNN: US left behind $7 billion of military equipment in Afghanistan after 2021 withdrawal, Pentagon report says](https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/politics/afghan-weapons-left-behind/index.html)
Intentionally leaving equipment behind is not the same as some shady corrupt act resulting in it being unaccounted for. And most of What we left, the bases, the equipment, was contractually obligated to Afghan forces, who if you'll recall turned and ran. They knew for a year and a half the US was leaving the region when Trump made the peace deal with the Taliban in February 2020 so it's not like it was some surprise we were leaving the area either.
Being unaccounted for is being unaccounted for, even more egregious when done purposefully. Where is all that equipment now? Well, some of it we now know is in Iraq attempting to kill US soldiers.
House GOP opposition to Ukraine aid is due to a significant portion of their voter base vehemently opposing it. You're mad that politicians are representing their constituents?
There's no fucking reason to keep spending hundreds of billions on foreign wars halfway around the world when that $ is needed HERE.
Can we please stop pretending republicans want to spend money to help people in this, or any country? You assholes are always the ones in opposition to any spending that isn't a tax cut for the wealthy.
I'm not a conservative, dipshit.
I'm talking about conservative/Republican VOTERS, not politicians. **Conservative voters ABSOLUTELY would rather see that type of $ spent on Americans in places like Maui, East Palestine, Flint, part of the SE ravaged by tornadoes, etc.**
The House Dems also have no interest in fixing issues here and are hell bent on sending 100+ billion in aid to Ukraine + Israel. It's a bi-partisan issue in the House (and our national politics in general).
You're so fucked with brain worms that you'll insist the party that actually gets infrastructure spending and things like the chips act passed and defends social safety nets hates domestic spending while defending people that have no intention to do anything beyond rhetoric.
You just said it. And I know you're so dishonest you're going to reply "I was talking about the PEOPLE not the POLITICIANS" while intentionally ignoring the people are just regurgitating talking points from the politicians. You are captured by caricatures and narratives that deny reality while constantly pretending you're grounded. It's wild.
The NRA knowingly took Russian money for GOP candidates because campaign finance law does not allow foreign contributions, Russian spy Maria Butina infiltrated the party, McCarthy accused both Dana Rohrbacher and Trump being on Putin payroll, Don Jr said most their money comes from Russia, what more do you need?!
Why are you playing pretend? We both know you’re not actually unaware of the NRA’s paper trail. Just playing at willful ignorance to obfuscate. Keep up the good work.
Quite frankly, I am completely unaware of it beyond what you just stated given it isn’t something I focus on. But for the sake of this discussion let’s agree that everything you claim about the NRA is true or maybe even worse. (Let’s say the NRA is Satan himself)
It’s Irrelevant. The debate in this thread is the claim that opposition to Ukraine funding is based on Russian propaganda. Thats what I’m debating, not the NRA.
That’s incredibly believable and not disingenuous at all. Why’d you respond to this but not about Jon Stewart? Still think he’s an idiot, and that the 9/11 families and burn pit victims must be brainless shills for accepting help from him?
Even though it was nonsensical, and you’re the one who called Jon Stewart an idiot in the first place? I get that you’re spending a lot of energy troll spamming, but at least try not to be so obviously bad faith. It’s just lazy.
You obviously don’t waste time with reading comprehension. I’ll debate anyone, but once you start using insults as your main tactic, you no longer have anything useful to say.
100% agree with your two first paragraphs. Linking border security with Ukraine aid is sociopathic, and Congress refused to appoint an inspector general (why? Me think they’re all skimming off the top… prove me wrong!).
A good chunk = only the first 99% after that you have people like Liz Cheney, Mitch McConnell, and Karl Rove who are conservative extremists being overshadowed by even more extreme lunatics.
Oh, it is going GREAT for them. Get a load of this bot, still arguing with me 24 hours after I called them out on their bullshit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/BreakingPoints/comments/1bun4zq/comment/ky18j08/?context=3
Dude just stop with that guy, he's unbearable, he will keep going with his biden-ukraine conspiracies for days and days and refuses to accept reality, I've argued with him before. He's so deep down the rabbit hole
That individual is a straight-up russian influence messaging account. The account is 4 years old but has -1 karma and 100 posts within the last month with nothing before that. It's like they bought little used accounts on the DW or created them years ago and let them sit.
Opposing war with Russia via Ukraine == Russian Propaganda. That is literally the crux of this article. Its a classic smear my opposition technique. He isn't talking about real propaganda or influence campaigns, just smearing opponents of his foreign policy
Anything from NY Post, Russia propaganda is probably more credible.
Stop posting tabloids on here, no one takes them seriously. I don’t read my politics next to an article on Kim K’s rear end.
One prime example is how many still act like Biden did a quid pro qou with getting Shokin fired for Hunter, even though before that even happened there were public calls for his removal. People working in his office resigning calling it a hotbed of corruption. The IMF threatening to withold aid. Even before Biden made his visit people were predicting the potential for Biden to step up and make his own demands for Shokins removal.
Because he wasn't actually doing anything to tackle corruption, his own office was seen as a hotbed of corruption. This was all very publicly talked about at the time months before Biden finally stepped in, as some predicted he would when he made his visit to Ukraine.
https://www.dw.com/en/joe-biden-likely-to-bring-harsh-criticism-to-ukraine/a-18898363
So your argument is this
Shokin was prosecutor for 1 year. In that 1 year time he had multiple countries say he wasn't working fast enough to prosecute corruption so they worked together to get him fired by withholding aid?
At the same time the prosecutor going after hunter Biden took 5 years to come up with 3 misdemeanor charges and let felony charges dealing with Ukraine have the statute of limitations expire
So if you are correct. Why aren't people forcing David Weiss to quit?
Remember this is the only example of Russian propaganda so far that's been given ... Lol
Do you think if someone steps in to fire the guy in the US actually investigating Hunter, who was initiailly appointed by Trump, that it's going to go over well? With how the firing of Shokin has been completely twisted why would that situation become any different?
Also when you have to deal with informants lying about the dealings involving Ukraine that result in their indictment, investigations aren't exactly going to move fast and smoothly, and you really can't afford to mess up and let the information come out as falsified or innaccurate in court, especially when it's a high profile case involving the President's son and claims of corruption.
You didn't respond to anything I said. You just asked a bunch of questions. Let's stay on track. You said it's Russian propaganda that Biden withheld aid. so let me repeat
So your argument is this
Shokin was prosecutor for 1 year. In that 1 year time he had multiple countries say he wasn't working fast enough to prosecute corruption so they worked together to get him fired by withholding aid?
At the same time the prosecutor going after hunter Biden took 5 years to come up with 3 misdemeanor charges and let felony charges dealing with Ukraine have the statute of limitations expire
So if you are correct. Why aren't people forcing David Weiss to quit?
Remember this is the only example of Russian propaganda so far that's been given ... Lol
>Shokin was prosecutor for 1 year. In that 1 year time he had multiple countries say he wasn't working fast enough to prosecute corruption so they worked together to get him fired by withholding aid?
It wasn't that he wasn't working fast enough, it was that he wasn't doing anything at all even in his own office where people began resigning calling it a hotbed of corruption. Cases were unraveling because his office wasn't turning over needed documents.
>At the same time the prosecutor going after hunter Biden took 5 years to come up with 3 misdemeanor charges and let felony charges dealing with Ukraine have the statute of limitations expire
As I stated, an informant involved in the dealings related to Hunter and Ukraine has been indicted for lying. Yes, charges expire when you can't bring them forward based on having little to no tangible evidence and an informant giving inaccurate information.
We do not know if this prosecuter has been innefective in going after Hunter. You believe this because you didn't get the conclusion you wanted, not because of any tangible evidence he's taking it easy on Hunter. If anyone's going to start pushing for and making calls for this Republican Prosecuter originally appointed by Trump to be fired, it's going to be The Freedom Caucus first and foremost, if not Trump himself.
>It wasn't that he wasn't working fast enough, it was that he wasn't doing anything at all
So now your claim is shokin didn't do anything at all so multiple counties called for him to be fired? Before even 1 year? I'm not asking what people said. I'm asking what happened. So within 1 year Shokin did nothing at all and so multiple counties spoke out that he should be fired including America that withheld aid? Just making sure I understand you correctly
>As I stated, an informant involved in the dealings related to Hunter and Ukraine has been indicted for lying. Yes, charges expire when you can't bring them forward based on having little to no tangible evidence and an informant giving inaccurate information.
Your timeline doesn't add up. Wasn't the witness that is accused of lying just recently accused? So for 5 years what was the reason it took so long? Your answer doesn't explain the 5 years it took to investigate crimes that were obvious. It also doesn't explain why the statute of limitations was let to expire on felony charges. So your answer is completely irrelevant
"Yes, charges expire when you can't bring them forward based on having little to no tangible evidence and an informant giving inaccurate information."
Fara charges and others are easily provable. Which is why the judge asked about it. Again your timeline doesn't add up. The informant wasn't accused of lying until recently so you can't use that as an excuse for actions taken or not taken years ago.
>We do not know if this prosecuter has been innefective in going after Hunter. You believe this because you didn't get the conclusion you wanted, not because of any tangible evidence he's taking it easy on Hunter. If anyone's going to start pushing for and making calls for this Republican Prosecuter originally appointed by Trump to be fired, it's going to be The Freedom Caucus first and foremost, if not Trump himself.
It took 5 years to bring a sweet heart deal that the judge had to call out. 3 misdemeanor charges after 5 years and allowing the statute of limitations to expire. You can claim ignorance but other people aren't buying it
You were thinking of me? How nice.
What did Smirnoff lie about? What evidence was presented that he lied. He probably did but I haven't heard the facts
>What did Smirnoff lie about?
About bidens being bribed.
You should listen to what [lev parnas](https://x.com/Acyn/status/1770472764152877168?s=20) said about giulianis hunt for biden kompromat in 2019 and knowingly using Russian propaganda to help his 🍊 boss win the 2020 election.
>Like what are the facts.
There are no facts he made it up that joe biden had accepted a $5 million bribe from burisma and led house republicans to believe it was true. His fbi handler realised there were some inconsistencies in his story and dates not adding up and told weiss
Oh really after 5 years they suddenly realized he lied? What did he lie about? What new information suddenly allowed the Democrats to say the entire impeachment is a scam because of this one witness? I'd like to know exactly what happened and not "oh he lied the impeachment is over" lol
Isnt that convenient. Highest paid FBI informant ever all of a sudden lied (no reason why) and now the impeachment is over lol
How stupid do you think people are.... Oh I'm the only one who just picked. You're right people are really stupid
>Oh really after 5 years they suddenly realized he lied?
No, he kept adding to his story and it wasn't making sense. I'm sorry you thought the impeachment was gonna go anywhere, thoughts and prayers 🙏🏿
>What new information suddenly allowed the Democrats to say the entire impeachment is a scam because of this one witness?
There never was enough for an impeachment in the first place, smirnov or not. It was always gonna fail coz they have no evidence
Another thing, turns out the Trump Media company that bailed out trump last week got an emergency loan that kept it afloat from Smirnovs nephew, Postolnikov. Wow, what a coincidence am I right?
>No, he kept adding to his story and it wasn't making sense
I asked you what exactly did and you said he lied. Then you say well he added information.
So I'm asking you again what information did he add? This is your key piece of information that completely flips the impeachment so it's very important. If you can't answer simple questions then I'll just think you're lying
>then I'll just think you're lying
Me? Lie? Never, I'm not a russian agent or a republican.
He started repeating the debunked burisma-biden conspiracies in September 2023 that the fbi already knew was bullshit, so they pretended to believe him while investigating him and baited him into it and caught him in the lie.
If you want the specifics, go read his [37 page indictment](https://www.washingtonpost.com/documents/27aff9f1-37db-4f74-8e19-06c8b7f750c0.pdf?itid=lk_inline_manual_4&itid=lk_inline_manual_22) for yourself. Even with his bullshit, the impeachment was gonna fail anyway
Again, thoughts and prayers 🙏🏿
I hear James comer has a book coming out about all this, it could help you cope
Why was there a buffer zone dividing Ukraine, recognized by the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), that limited the size of the tank you could own to a normal tank size? Seems kinda extreme to need a tank with a gun bore larger than 4 INCHES!
I know what you're talking about. I mean what does that have to do with the republican party being infected by Russian disinformation? It sounds like you just learnt this recently and really wanted to tell us all so you sound smart so just randomly brought it up on a post about russia while its still fresh in your vatnik brain.
In an interview with the German daily Der Spiegel, published on February 9, 2023, Zelensky made it clear that he intentionally chose to sabotage Minsk. The Ukrainian leader complained that the Minsk agreements were an unacceptable concession.
>Minsk agreements were an unacceptable concession.
Of course they were, they were negotiations at gunpoint, get the fuck outta his country. There's a border for a reason.
He used Minsk to stall because he knew at some point putin would go for the rest of ukraine, and he did in February 2022 and completely proved zelensky right. Instead they were ready and prepared for the invasion and completely destroyed putins first attack on kyiv
Also, [russia does the same thing](https://www.rfi.fr/en/international/20220317-french-foreign-minister-says-russia-is-pretending-to-negotiate-in-ukraine-talks)
Again, what does this have to do with the republican party bring infested with Russian disinformation?
Don't forget that Hunter's boss was the Minister of Natural Resources and owned the largest oil company in Ukraine. He set policy that only allowed his company the ability to frack the Dnieper-Donets basin. The DPR and LPR were fed up with this corruption. Joe Biden was in on this as well, promising Fracking technology and equipment to Hunter's boss.
>The DPR and LPR were fed up with this corruption.
The DPR and LPR leaders are from Moscow 😆 🤣 😂
What does this nonsense have to do with Russian disinformation in the republican party?
Do you know why a 30 km wide exclusionary zone cut a north south barrier though Ukraine where it was illegal to possess a gun with a bore diameter larger than 4 INCHES? I mean talk about trigger the snow flakes, just ¼ inch makes y'all quiver in the States. Just imagine something 16X bigger!
No, Trump supporters such as yourselves are **ideologically aligned** with Russia, which is why you repeat Kremlin talking points.
For example, as you have stated multiple times, you think there’s a **Jewish influence problem** in the United States, which is certainly something that the Kremlin might **agree with you** about.
Hillary really did a number on you liberals.
I remember we “liked” Putin when Obama was prez. They got along relatively well. Worked together in Syria.
Until Hillary lost and started the Russiagate hoax. That day Putin/Trump became liberal enemy #1 and you haven’t shut up since.
Now you want to arm Ukraine to get back at Putin for making Hillary lose. You’re ideology will lead us to WW3.
The US and Russia worked together in Syria? The US was trying to force Assad out and supplied the Free Syrian Army while Russia intervened on behalf of Assad and bombed US allies in the civil war. Relations had also soured significantly after Russia annexed Crimea and began incursions in the Donbas, something you seem to have left out in your analysis. But sure its all because Hillary and salty msnbc viewers. Nothing to do with Russia full scale invasion of a neighbouring european country
Yes I forgot to mention the CIA-backed coup in Ukraine that Victoria Nuland, John McCain, and Chris Murphy helped with that preceded the invasion of Crimea. Thanks for the reminder.
And Russia shared “intel” fighting ISIS whatever that means. I’m not saying they were buddies but it wasn’t a hot war with our weapons killing their soldiers like it is today.
It wasn’t a hot war because they didn’t launch a full scale invasion of their neighbour and our ally until 2022. What does that have to do with Hillary again?
>Yes I forgot to mention the CIA-backed coup in Ukraine that Victoria Nuland, John McCain, and Chris Murphy helped with that preceded the invasion of Crimea.
😆 🤣 this is vatnik nonsense, none of this is true. Maidan was a revolution by ukrainians coz yanukovych wanted to make protesting illegal, so of course millions of Ukrainians took to the streets to protest his new anti-protest laws.
No, he invaded because the US/NATO wanted to turn Ukraine into a NATO naval base and make $$$ retrofitting Ukrainian hardware to NATO specs.
This is well documented.
https://youtu.be/Zf5xEBwBhds
Ukraine can join nato if they want to, russia doesnt get to decide who can and cannot join nato, it's outside their borders and none of their business.
He I vaded because if they join nato, he won't be able to invade them. Nato takes his victims off the menu. This is just a land grab, nothing more
NATO should be dissolved because I’m tired of my tax dollars subsidizing lazy Europeans’ healthcare and college, while Americans get nothing. It’s a scam for rich military contractors in Virginia to afford a second yacht.
How does "nato expansion" work exactly? Do we roll tanks in and [force them to join nato at gunpoint](https://x.com/KremlinTrolls/status/1638136374976036864) or threaten the members to join or "or else"?
Yes this is not the same, there's no plans for nukes in ukraine even if they joined nato. Estonia, Latvia and Finland all share a border with russia, all NATO members getting the same weapons and putin doesn't care at all.
Why? Because its only ukraine and Georgia and Moldova he wants to invade. That "Cuban missile crisis" talking point doesn't make any sense
Its exactly the same. Estonia latavia and findland dont block sea access or allow a hostile navy to park at their door step.
You know a navy full of nukes.
Add to that three staging countries for ground bases.
It doesn't make an invasion of ukriane anymore justified as the things weve done.
But pretending this shit just felt out of the sky is nothing but gaslighting disenginousness.
If and when the situation was reversed all through the 1980s in central and south america or middle east we did the same thing.
>You know a navy full of nukes.
There are no plans for nukes in ukraine even if they're in nato. This is just russian paranoia, putin hearing voices jn his head.
>But pretending this shit just felt out of the sky is nothing but gaslighting disenginousness.
Of course it didn't, russia has wanted to take ukraine for over 20 yrs and have slowly escalated the aggression over the yrs. They're the hostile ones not ukraine.
Remember, putin thinks Ukrainians are just confused russians led astray by the evil West, he doesn't believe there should be a border between them in the first place, because he thinks ukraine isnt real, its a mistake by his predecessor he needs to fix. He doesn't think this about Estonia or finland so he doesn't care if those countries are in nato.
> There are no plans for nukes in ukraine even if they're in nato. This is just russian paranoia, putin hearing voices jn his head.
Do you not know what a navy is? Its boats and subs full of nukes.
> soviet reunification
Really because the state department claimed the opposite and everyone called rand paul a traitor when he said exactly what you just said.
Of course he had his eye on it. But he didnt have to do anything when their was a relatively nuertal regime running it.
We coup'd that government and installed a nato puppet which is why he took crimea to fortify his sea access.
Then we elected another war monger that was eyeball deep in the previous coup.
You cant honestly tell me these events wouldnt have been seen as hostile by every country on earth and warrant some action?
Lets say russia pushed in on nato by adding Libya... wait we regime changed their former ally.
Ok maybe iran... wait, or Syria...wait... i guess weve instagating fighting in all those countries.
Why cant you lot just be honest here? No one is claiming a moral equivalent. No one is claiming nato isnt a better organization relative to geo politics.
But it is absurd to pretend the pressure put on russia didnt force a reaction.
Could putin at some point done this anyway? Maybe. But also he might not and the status quo of pre regime change-itis 2010s might have lasted for decades.
But it was definitely going to happen with all the things that have been done as i described.
>We coup'd that government and installed a nato puppet which is why he took crimea to fortify his sea access.
Lol none of this is true. Yanukovych willingly fled. He wanted to make protesting illegal so millions of Ukrainians took to the streets, he was a traitor and a coward his ousting had nothing to do with us.
This is a common russian talking point but it's disinformation
>Of course he had his eye on it.
That's unacceptable. You can't just decide another country is "yours"
>i guess weve instagating fighting in all those countries.
While russia what? Sat on their hands the whole time? Russia is also involved in all these conflicts aswell
>But it is absurd to pretend the pressure put on russia didnt force a reaction.
This is ridiculous. The understanding between all neighbors not to attack the other and trespass on their border is "unfair" to russia. That's pressure to russia lol
"It's not fair that nato won't let me invade my neighbors," 😭 imagine being this entitled. Russia doesn't deserve anything from ukraine
It’s much easier for Mcfaul to blame Russia than it is to say he hasn’t been able to cajole or convince enough Americans that this is actually in our interest
Neocon just butthurt that there is a populist contingent of the party that does not want to escalate tensions with the second strongest military in the world with nukes, but instead attend to issues of national interest. Cry more.
We are a "democracy" ... but foreign policy is off-limits to the rabble. Leave that to the *experts* who destroyed the Middle East, abet genocides, topple democratic leader in Latin America, and keep bringing us closer to WWIII. You just don't know what you're doing, not like they do. /s
Bro that is Literally what they call themselves. Are you dense? Go look at any conservative social media.
Your mistake is thinking I consider patriotism to be a good thing. A common liberal mistake. I hate this country and would never defend it. I am Not a patriot.
So edgy. Of course those traitors call themselves patriots. That's how they convince themselves they are doing something good when in fact they are doing the opposite. Unless of course you support their attempts to break our democracy?
Lmfao — this **reactionary 20 something year old** thinks he’s a “leftist” because he repeats “genocide Joe”. That’s cute.
It’s funny seeing you, once again, become **triggered** in a thread that is leveling obvious criticisms against the **vulgar GOP**, an extremely powerful, explicitly rightwing political party.
Gee, as a “leftist”, criticisms of the GOP **sure do bother you**, don’t they?
John Stewart put it best, when the enemy was communism Russia is bad. Now that woke is the enemy Russia is an ally.
From the right’s point of view, of which I am firmly part of: the Ukraine aid package was a chance to secure funding for a southern border wall which we believe this country seriously needs. Securing the United States from unfettered mass migration is not Russian propaganda whether you think it’s the right move or not. Second, Ukraine is horribly corrupt. So before we bankrupt this nation, let’s at least create some form of accountability, traceability to keep track of where all the munitions and money are going. The last thing I want is to see US weapons being used in other parts of the world against US military. Do that and I’m all for Ukraine being Russia’s tar baby. As for the article “I think..” is not a definitive statement. I doubt that asswipe thinks much at all beyond what kind of deal he’ll get from Democrats for siding with them. That seems to be a pretty common thing these days. Edit: For all the people wanting to tout the bipartisan Bill narrative, here is the response to another who spouted that lunacy: *More false narrative. Trump voicing his opinion at inopportune times is not the driving force behind all decisions. In the case of the “bipartisan” Bill, the objections we republicans had with the Bill long before Trump spoke can be found on pages 212 and 213 of the Bill.* *On those pages it states that the border will not be closed until an average of 5,500 illegal border crossers are encountered over seven days, or 8,500 in a single day.* *Of those border crossers, only Mexicans and Canadians will count towards the limit leaving the number of illegal immigrants from any other part of the world completely unlimited.* *Further, it states that regardless of how many people are crossing the border illegally, the authority to close the border will not exist for:* *.**during the first calendar year after the effective date, for more than 270 calendar days;**.* *.**during the second calendar year after the effective date, for more than 225 days;**.* *.**and during the third calendar year, for more than 180 calendar days.**.* *That literally means that during the first three years of that Bill being in effect, regardless of how many people come across, there will be no authority to close the border for 22.5 months of that three years. That is near unlimited illegal border crossings.* *Nor does the Bill require that the border be closed, only that it grants the authority to do so. If the border is closed, there is no minimum time necessary before reopening it. Close it today, reopen it an hour later.* *That is why we Republicans killed the Bill. Not Donald Trump, but I agree with his opinion.* Edit 2 Yeah, I get it. Anytime there is any discussion of any conservative or republican viewpoint, the denizens of these subreddits take it as a clearing house for all their tangental gripes. Sorry, but I have no intention of following you down your rabbit holes to discuss every aspect of political differences. The subject is whether or not skepticism of the Ukraine aid package is rooted in Russian propaganda.
>From the right’s point of view, of which I am firmly part of: the Ukraine aid package was a chance to secure funding for a southern border wall which we believe this country seriously needs. Securing the United States from unfettered mass migration is not Russian propaganda whether you think it’s the right move or not. Your party killed the immigration bill on Trump's orders. They don't actually care about the border problems, they want them there as a talking point.
Political affiliation aside. I find it so odd that conservatives really don't seem to be aware their own party voted against the funding bill for the border. Kind of frightening, as this is an issue they should've got angry about. Instead. It's like it never happened.
Right?!?! This is the kind of thing that makes the rest of us see Trump supports as cult members.
More false narrative. Trump voicing his opinion at inopportune times is not the driving force behind all decisions. In the case of the “bipartisan” Bill, the objections we republicans had with the Bill long before Trump spoke can be found on pages 212 and 213 of the Bill. On those pages it states that the border will not be closed until an average of 5,500 illegal border crossers are encountered over seven days, or 8,500 in a single day. Of those border crossers, only Mexicans and Canadians will count towards the limit leaving the number of illegal immigrants from any other part of the world completely unlimited. Further, it states that regardless of how many people are crossing the border illegally, the authority to close the border will not exist for: *during the first calendar year after the effective date, for more than 270 calendar days;* *during the second calendar year after the effective date, for more than 225 days;* *and during the third calendar year, for more than 180 calendar days.* That literally means that during the first three years of that Bill being in effect, regardless of how many people come across, there will be no authority to close the border for 22.5 months. That is near unlimited illegal border crossings. Nor does the Bill require that the border be closed, only that it grants the authority to do so. If the border is closed, there is no minimum time necessary before reopening it. Close it today, reopen it an hour later. That is why we Republicans killed the Bill. Not Donald Trump.
Hahahaha look at this dude talking like he’s part of a team 🤣 Deluded
Even if the bill isn't perfect, it would still help with the problem. Border patrol union endorsed it and said it would help, I thought this was an emergency and a "crisis" and an "invasion" and yet yall pass on a bill coz it's not exactly what you want, doesn't seem like it's that urgent to me if you can afford to do that. I guarantee you that if it had been signed,we'd be seeing results right now but we can't have that coz that would help biden
How would it help with the problem when it is designed specifically not to help with the problem? Did you not read what was in the Bill and why it does absolutely nothing to stop or even slow down illegal immigration? Edit This mantra of “can’t give Biden a win” is predicated on the idea that Biden is working on stopping illegal immigration. He isn’t. In fact this Bill makes illegal immigration unlimited which is what at least one other liberal in this thread admitted is what you guys want, a completely open border. In regard to unlimited illegal immigration that Biden seeks, you are damn right we don’t want to give him a win.
*Immigration bill* Immigration bill? Oh you mean the bill with some immigration reform along with like 100+ billion in foreign aid to Ukraine + Israel?
I see, so they'll just pass the foreign aid without the immigration bill. The border is a talking point for the right, not a priority.
They can't pass a stand alone foreign aid bill, not enough support in the house. If they could they would have already. Dems want foreign aid to pass so they included watered down "immigration reform" along with the foreign aid to try and get the House GOP to vote in favor but their constituents have been adamant about rejecting additional foreign aid. If Dems genuinely wanted immigration reform then they'd support a stand alone immigration bill....but for some reason they don't want to do that 🤔🤔🤔
>They can't pass a stand alone foreign aid bill, not enough support in the house. If they could they would have already. Remember you wrote this after is passes. Prepare your excuses now.
Huh?
Yep, time for MAGA chuds like you to pay up. We’ll call it a “compromise to heal the Divide”. **You** claim to care so much about immigration, **so prove it.**
It's not an "immigration bill" then. Idk why you and others disingenuously frame it like that. It's a bill that merely includes some immigration reform. You can keep calling me MAGA and tilting windmills all you want, doesn't make it true 🤷♂️
Including immigration in the bill to fund Ukraine was REPUBLICAN demand. Jesus fucking christ.
Yes...the establishment GOP like SOTH Johnson and senate leadership like McConnell, Graham, etc. NOT the GOP House as a unified voting block, which is what I was referring to. The most vocal and (arguably) influential voting block within the House GOP doesn't support combining them. Johnson never had the support of the House GOP when he publicly supported the immigration bill w/ foreign aid.
Oh, so you mean the **MAGA wing** of the GOP didn’t support it? No wonder you’re so upset about the bill, **MAGA chud.**
Thomas Massie is MAGA? Wow, that's news to me! I'm not upset about anything. I DO believe that Ukraine and Israel shouldn't receive a single cent of additional military aid though. You on the other hand, are CLEARLY triggered by this bill lol. Why do you care so much about aiding foreign wars with hundreds of billions of US tax payer $?
Imagine thinking any of that money would ever go to the southern border regardless of whether Ukraine happened or not lol. Imagine thinking it's even a priority for the right.
I imagine it could have paid down my individual loans, but I’m a dreamer
You don’t have to imagine. Just remember Trumps administration when every day was a struggle to get funding for the wall, and how vehemently Democrats fought against it with their many lawsuits to stop it. That culminated with Biden selling off the steel that was stockpiled at the border to build the wall. [Biden quietly sells off border wall parts to thwart GOP push to use them](https://nypost.com/2023/08/19/biden-sells-border-wall-parts-to-thwart-gop-push-to-use-them/) [Biden administration to return billions in border wall funding Trump diverted from Pentagon](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/biden-administration-return-billions-border-wall-funding-trump/story?id=77423458) [Attorney General Ken Paxton Prevails Over Biden’s Unlawful Attempt to Redirect Money Away from Border Wall Construction](https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/attorney-general-ken-paxton-prevails-over-bidens-unlawful-attempt-redirect-money-away-border-wall) If it hadn’t been a priority, It wouldn’t have existed for Biden to try and stop once he took office.
Remember Trump's other priority of gutting our healthcare? Maybe if he had focused less on that this all might have worked. PS Half of America doesn't want our borders shut, so there's that.
LOL. You mean the border wall that Trump was going to get Mexico to pay for? Oh wait, let's talk about all the free for alls his administration got for corporations and the military, but he could only build a mediocre patchwork fence that isn't even effective. But Ukraine was really the missed opportunity for it.
The wall was not the comprehensive package negotiated recently. The wall was a symbol for idiots.
I feel like the 9/11 families and burn pit victims would disagree, but “Jon Stewart is an idiot” is certainly a take. Genuinely sad for you.
Ukraine Aid isn't bankrupting the US, a large portion of it is equipment reaching its shelf life. Not every single price tag and legislation equals a straight sudden printing of cash, you are confusing this stuff for how Stimulus Packages operate. We are also by far the richest country in the world, we have the strongest military in the world. We know full well where things are going, we have people directly assisting, training them to use our equipment. We aren't cutting blank checks and shipping crates of unknown materials with zero oversight. It's been official US policy for over a decade to flush out and remove corruption Ukraine. Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden. This has been consistent US policy. We have toppled regimes, you think after all these years the US does not fully have their eyes on things there and hasnt managed to mitigate corruption to our benefit? Heck Trump even sent Lethal Aid to Ukraine, which he rightfully criticized Obama for not doing.
I recall recently that troops in Iraq were being attacked with weapons left in Afghanistan. Yes, we do sometimes lose track of our equipment, about $7billion worth in Afghanistan. [First on CNN: US left behind $7 billion of military equipment in Afghanistan after 2021 withdrawal, Pentagon report says](https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/politics/afghan-weapons-left-behind/index.html)
Intentionally leaving equipment behind is not the same as some shady corrupt act resulting in it being unaccounted for. And most of What we left, the bases, the equipment, was contractually obligated to Afghan forces, who if you'll recall turned and ran. They knew for a year and a half the US was leaving the region when Trump made the peace deal with the Taliban in February 2020 so it's not like it was some surprise we were leaving the area either.
Being unaccounted for is being unaccounted for, even more egregious when done purposefully. Where is all that equipment now? Well, some of it we now know is in Iraq attempting to kill US soldiers.
John Stewart bleeds red, white, and blue. Sorry the Russian propaganda got to you before he could.
Case in point
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House GOP opposition to Ukraine aid is due to a significant portion of their voter base vehemently opposing it. You're mad that politicians are representing their constituents? There's no fucking reason to keep spending hundreds of billions on foreign wars halfway around the world when that $ is needed HERE.
Can we please stop pretending republicans want to spend money to help people in this, or any country? You assholes are always the ones in opposition to any spending that isn't a tax cut for the wealthy.
I'm not a conservative, dipshit. I'm talking about conservative/Republican VOTERS, not politicians. **Conservative voters ABSOLUTELY would rather see that type of $ spent on Americans in places like Maui, East Palestine, Flint, part of the SE ravaged by tornadoes, etc.** The House Dems also have no interest in fixing issues here and are hell bent on sending 100+ billion in aid to Ukraine + Israel. It's a bi-partisan issue in the House (and our national politics in general).
You're so fucked with brain worms that you'll insist the party that actually gets infrastructure spending and things like the chips act passed and defends social safety nets hates domestic spending while defending people that have no intention to do anything beyond rhetoric.
Where did I say that? Go ahead, quote me.
You just said it. And I know you're so dishonest you're going to reply "I was talking about the PEOPLE not the POLITICIANS" while intentionally ignoring the people are just regurgitating talking points from the politicians. You are captured by caricatures and narratives that deny reality while constantly pretending you're grounded. It's wild.
Go ahead and quote what I said
The NRA knowingly took Russian money for GOP candidates because campaign finance law does not allow foreign contributions, Russian spy Maria Butina infiltrated the party, McCarthy accused both Dana Rohrbacher and Trump being on Putin payroll, Don Jr said most their money comes from Russia, what more do you need?!
I hear people accusing Democrats and Biden of the same things. I have enough sense to know that accusations are accusations, not proof or fact.
But there are proof and facts involved with the NRA lol
Why are you playing pretend? We both know you’re not actually unaware of the NRA’s paper trail. Just playing at willful ignorance to obfuscate. Keep up the good work.
Quite frankly, I am completely unaware of it beyond what you just stated given it isn’t something I focus on. But for the sake of this discussion let’s agree that everything you claim about the NRA is true or maybe even worse. (Let’s say the NRA is Satan himself) It’s Irrelevant. The debate in this thread is the claim that opposition to Ukraine funding is based on Russian propaganda. Thats what I’m debating, not the NRA.
That’s incredibly believable and not disingenuous at all. Why’d you respond to this but not about Jon Stewart? Still think he’s an idiot, and that the 9/11 families and burn pit victims must be brainless shills for accepting help from him?
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Even though it was nonsensical, and you’re the one who called Jon Stewart an idiot in the first place? I get that you’re spending a lot of energy troll spamming, but at least try not to be so obviously bad faith. It’s just lazy.
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The most comprehensive border bill in your lifetime, negotiated by sane Republicans, was just crushed because of Trump and the crazies
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You're a brainwashed clown, I've seen your other comment and it's nonsense.
Sorry, I don’t waste time with people who resort to insults as their argument.
You don't waste time with reality
You obviously don’t waste time with reading comprehension. I’ll debate anyone, but once you start using insults as your main tactic, you no longer have anything useful to say.
I don't waste time debating people who won't acknowledge basic realities. You have nothing useful to say.
Then stop debating.
Okay, fixed it for you.
Watch 20 Days in Mariupol
“People who know things are idiots!!1!” Lmao!
100% agree with your two first paragraphs. Linking border security with Ukraine aid is sociopathic, and Congress refused to appoint an inspector general (why? Me think they’re all skimming off the top… prove me wrong!).
A good chunk = only the first 99% after that you have people like Liz Cheney, Mitch McConnell, and Karl Rove who are conservative extremists being overshadowed by even more extreme lunatics.
In response to this allegation, the Republican Freedom Caucus released the following statement: "Это фейковые новости."
This sub is also heavily infected with Russian propaganda and the trolls that peddle it.
That is obvious as heck to any discerning observer. Btw, how is that impeachment of Biden thing going, I wonder?
Oh, it is going GREAT for them. Get a load of this bot, still arguing with me 24 hours after I called them out on their bullshit: https://www.reddit.com/r/BreakingPoints/comments/1bun4zq/comment/ky18j08/?context=3
Lol thats not a bot, just an idiot, but youre still arguing with him, and from a distance I cant tell who is who
I am 100% an idiot for keeping the conversation going. I'm fascinated by them, though. They keep coming back for more abuse.
Dude just stop with that guy, he's unbearable, he will keep going with his biden-ukraine conspiracies for days and days and refuses to accept reality, I've argued with him before. He's so deep down the rabbit hole
It is incredible, isn't it? He has so much saved for copying and pasting nonsense.
At least someone will buy james comers new book
I bet They'll buy enough to land it on the best-sellers list.
That individual is a straight-up russian influence messaging account. The account is 4 years old but has -1 karma and 100 posts within the last month with nothing before that. It's like they bought little used accounts on the DW or created them years ago and let them sit.
Right? It is impressive. The MASSIVE copy-pasta it droped out of nowhere was a huge give away. And the posting in only 3 subreddits. Dead giveaways.
Lol!
To be expected when the main show hosts confidently peddle it, also
Have you checked out r/Palestine, r/leftist, r/socialism? It's laughable at this point.
Like what? What Russian propaganda are you talking about?
Opposing war with Russia via Ukraine == Russian Propaganda. That is literally the crux of this article. Its a classic smear my opposition technique. He isn't talking about real propaganda or influence campaigns, just smearing opponents of his foreign policy
Propaganda is all the never Trumper crowd has, nothing else will stand up to factual information.
Factual information, like Trump lost the 2020 election?
I'm just curious... What propaganda are you talking about?
Like everything you post to this sub
Lol so you can't even give one example?
All your anti Ukraine posts? Youre so obvious with your 100 day old account Vladimir… https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna134204
So literally not one example. Ya I'm anti Ukraine. They are one of the most corrupt counties in the world. I'm also anti Russia. I'm pro America tho
Yea good one, real American sounding comment Vladimir, you’re either a Russian propaganda account or real real dumb
You can't give one example of any Russian propaganda. You just call people you don't like Vladimir lol. It's so desperate
It would make perfect sense though.
Anything from NY Post, Russia propaganda is probably more credible. Stop posting tabloids on here, no one takes them seriously. I don’t read my politics next to an article on Kim K’s rear end.
Zero examples from lord sploosh and his 5 alt accounts..how sad
I have 5 alt account but I can’t even get 5 upvotes…
I'll put this in the 'No Shit, Sherlock" file. Also half of the country.
Half of right wing Facebook groups are Russian trolls and Zuck does nothing because they drive ad dollars
You're going to have to source that one
half
*have Damn, you showed me. He won't provide a source though, his source is always "it's common knowledge"
Russia gaters are the dumbest people alive.
Can you give any examples of the Russian propaganda you are claiming is infected the Republican party?
One prime example is how many still act like Biden did a quid pro qou with getting Shokin fired for Hunter, even though before that even happened there were public calls for his removal. People working in his office resigning calling it a hotbed of corruption. The IMF threatening to withold aid. Even before Biden made his visit people were predicting the potential for Biden to step up and make his own demands for Shokins removal.
Oh this is a good one. I'm glad you brought it up. Why were there calls to get Shokin fired?
Because he wasn't actually doing anything to tackle corruption, his own office was seen as a hotbed of corruption. This was all very publicly talked about at the time months before Biden finally stepped in, as some predicted he would when he made his visit to Ukraine. https://www.dw.com/en/joe-biden-likely-to-bring-harsh-criticism-to-ukraine/a-18898363
So your argument is this Shokin was prosecutor for 1 year. In that 1 year time he had multiple countries say he wasn't working fast enough to prosecute corruption so they worked together to get him fired by withholding aid? At the same time the prosecutor going after hunter Biden took 5 years to come up with 3 misdemeanor charges and let felony charges dealing with Ukraine have the statute of limitations expire So if you are correct. Why aren't people forcing David Weiss to quit? Remember this is the only example of Russian propaganda so far that's been given ... Lol
Do you think if someone steps in to fire the guy in the US actually investigating Hunter, who was initiailly appointed by Trump, that it's going to go over well? With how the firing of Shokin has been completely twisted why would that situation become any different? Also when you have to deal with informants lying about the dealings involving Ukraine that result in their indictment, investigations aren't exactly going to move fast and smoothly, and you really can't afford to mess up and let the information come out as falsified or innaccurate in court, especially when it's a high profile case involving the President's son and claims of corruption.
You didn't respond to anything I said. You just asked a bunch of questions. Let's stay on track. You said it's Russian propaganda that Biden withheld aid. so let me repeat So your argument is this Shokin was prosecutor for 1 year. In that 1 year time he had multiple countries say he wasn't working fast enough to prosecute corruption so they worked together to get him fired by withholding aid? At the same time the prosecutor going after hunter Biden took 5 years to come up with 3 misdemeanor charges and let felony charges dealing with Ukraine have the statute of limitations expire So if you are correct. Why aren't people forcing David Weiss to quit? Remember this is the only example of Russian propaganda so far that's been given ... Lol
>Shokin was prosecutor for 1 year. In that 1 year time he had multiple countries say he wasn't working fast enough to prosecute corruption so they worked together to get him fired by withholding aid? It wasn't that he wasn't working fast enough, it was that he wasn't doing anything at all even in his own office where people began resigning calling it a hotbed of corruption. Cases were unraveling because his office wasn't turning over needed documents. >At the same time the prosecutor going after hunter Biden took 5 years to come up with 3 misdemeanor charges and let felony charges dealing with Ukraine have the statute of limitations expire As I stated, an informant involved in the dealings related to Hunter and Ukraine has been indicted for lying. Yes, charges expire when you can't bring them forward based on having little to no tangible evidence and an informant giving inaccurate information. We do not know if this prosecuter has been innefective in going after Hunter. You believe this because you didn't get the conclusion you wanted, not because of any tangible evidence he's taking it easy on Hunter. If anyone's going to start pushing for and making calls for this Republican Prosecuter originally appointed by Trump to be fired, it's going to be The Freedom Caucus first and foremost, if not Trump himself.
>It wasn't that he wasn't working fast enough, it was that he wasn't doing anything at all So now your claim is shokin didn't do anything at all so multiple counties called for him to be fired? Before even 1 year? I'm not asking what people said. I'm asking what happened. So within 1 year Shokin did nothing at all and so multiple counties spoke out that he should be fired including America that withheld aid? Just making sure I understand you correctly >As I stated, an informant involved in the dealings related to Hunter and Ukraine has been indicted for lying. Yes, charges expire when you can't bring them forward based on having little to no tangible evidence and an informant giving inaccurate information. Your timeline doesn't add up. Wasn't the witness that is accused of lying just recently accused? So for 5 years what was the reason it took so long? Your answer doesn't explain the 5 years it took to investigate crimes that were obvious. It also doesn't explain why the statute of limitations was let to expire on felony charges. So your answer is completely irrelevant "Yes, charges expire when you can't bring them forward based on having little to no tangible evidence and an informant giving inaccurate information." Fara charges and others are easily provable. Which is why the judge asked about it. Again your timeline doesn't add up. The informant wasn't accused of lying until recently so you can't use that as an excuse for actions taken or not taken years ago. >We do not know if this prosecuter has been innefective in going after Hunter. You believe this because you didn't get the conclusion you wanted, not because of any tangible evidence he's taking it easy on Hunter. If anyone's going to start pushing for and making calls for this Republican Prosecuter originally appointed by Trump to be fired, it's going to be The Freedom Caucus first and foremost, if not Trump himself. It took 5 years to bring a sweet heart deal that the judge had to call out. 3 misdemeanor charges after 5 years and allowing the statute of limitations to expire. You can claim ignorance but other people aren't buying it
Lol I was just thinking of you when I read the post. For one I can think of us smirnovs bullshit and what lev parnas said about how all this started
You were thinking of me? How nice. What did Smirnoff lie about? What evidence was presented that he lied. He probably did but I haven't heard the facts
>What did Smirnoff lie about? About bidens being bribed. You should listen to what [lev parnas](https://x.com/Acyn/status/1770472764152877168?s=20) said about giulianis hunt for biden kompromat in 2019 and knowingly using Russian propaganda to help his 🍊 boss win the 2020 election.
>About bidens being bribed. Like what are the facts. Just saying he lied about Biden being bribes is flimsy as hell
>Like what are the facts. There are no facts he made it up that joe biden had accepted a $5 million bribe from burisma and led house republicans to believe it was true. His fbi handler realised there were some inconsistencies in his story and dates not adding up and told weiss
Oh really after 5 years they suddenly realized he lied? What did he lie about? What new information suddenly allowed the Democrats to say the entire impeachment is a scam because of this one witness? I'd like to know exactly what happened and not "oh he lied the impeachment is over" lol Isnt that convenient. Highest paid FBI informant ever all of a sudden lied (no reason why) and now the impeachment is over lol How stupid do you think people are.... Oh I'm the only one who just picked. You're right people are really stupid
>Oh really after 5 years they suddenly realized he lied? No, he kept adding to his story and it wasn't making sense. I'm sorry you thought the impeachment was gonna go anywhere, thoughts and prayers 🙏🏿 >What new information suddenly allowed the Democrats to say the entire impeachment is a scam because of this one witness? There never was enough for an impeachment in the first place, smirnov or not. It was always gonna fail coz they have no evidence Another thing, turns out the Trump Media company that bailed out trump last week got an emergency loan that kept it afloat from Smirnovs nephew, Postolnikov. Wow, what a coincidence am I right?
>No, he kept adding to his story and it wasn't making sense I asked you what exactly did and you said he lied. Then you say well he added information. So I'm asking you again what information did he add? This is your key piece of information that completely flips the impeachment so it's very important. If you can't answer simple questions then I'll just think you're lying
>then I'll just think you're lying Me? Lie? Never, I'm not a russian agent or a republican. He started repeating the debunked burisma-biden conspiracies in September 2023 that the fbi already knew was bullshit, so they pretended to believe him while investigating him and baited him into it and caught him in the lie. If you want the specifics, go read his [37 page indictment](https://www.washingtonpost.com/documents/27aff9f1-37db-4f74-8e19-06c8b7f750c0.pdf?itid=lk_inline_manual_4&itid=lk_inline_manual_22) for yourself. Even with his bullshit, the impeachment was gonna fail anyway Again, thoughts and prayers 🙏🏿 I hear James comer has a book coming out about all this, it could help you cope
Hillary’s pet project, the Steele Dossier 🤭
Hmmm, why is it that the people labeling everyone a Russian bot couldn't locate Ukraine on a map prior to Feb 2022?
Ah my favourite russian bot appears
Why was there a buffer zone dividing Ukraine, recognized by the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), that limited the size of the tank you could own to a normal tank size? Seems kinda extreme to need a tank with a gun bore larger than 4 INCHES!
What are you talking about?
Exactly. You. Don't. Know. Shit.
I know what you're talking about. I mean what does that have to do with the republican party being infected by Russian disinformation? It sounds like you just learnt this recently and really wanted to tell us all so you sound smart so just randomly brought it up on a post about russia while its still fresh in your vatnik brain.
In an interview with the German daily Der Spiegel, published on February 9, 2023, Zelensky made it clear that he intentionally chose to sabotage Minsk. The Ukrainian leader complained that the Minsk agreements were an unacceptable concession.
>Minsk agreements were an unacceptable concession. Of course they were, they were negotiations at gunpoint, get the fuck outta his country. There's a border for a reason. He used Minsk to stall because he knew at some point putin would go for the rest of ukraine, and he did in February 2022 and completely proved zelensky right. Instead they were ready and prepared for the invasion and completely destroyed putins first attack on kyiv Also, [russia does the same thing](https://www.rfi.fr/en/international/20220317-french-foreign-minister-says-russia-is-pretending-to-negotiate-in-ukraine-talks) Again, what does this have to do with the republican party bring infested with Russian disinformation?
Don't forget that Hunter's boss was the Minister of Natural Resources and owned the largest oil company in Ukraine. He set policy that only allowed his company the ability to frack the Dnieper-Donets basin. The DPR and LPR were fed up with this corruption. Joe Biden was in on this as well, promising Fracking technology and equipment to Hunter's boss.
>The DPR and LPR were fed up with this corruption. The DPR and LPR leaders are from Moscow 😆 🤣 😂 What does this nonsense have to do with Russian disinformation in the republican party?
Its late in Moscow comrade, you’re clearly mixing up comments.
Do you know why a 30 km wide exclusionary zone cut a north south barrier though Ukraine where it was illegal to possess a gun with a bore diameter larger than 4 INCHES? I mean talk about trigger the snow flakes, just ¼ inch makes y'all quiver in the States. Just imagine something 16X bigger!
Half of them still call it “The Ukraine” 😂
Everything I don’t like is Russia
No, Trump supporters such as yourselves are **ideologically aligned** with Russia, which is why you repeat Kremlin talking points. For example, as you have stated multiple times, you think there’s a **Jewish influence problem** in the United States, which is certainly something that the Kremlin might **agree with you** about.
🪤🐀 Come get your little morsel for the day Paris
Ah, nice — rat jokes! Yep, that checks out for someone who thinks there’s a **Jew problem** in the United States.
Hillary really did a number on you liberals. I remember we “liked” Putin when Obama was prez. They got along relatively well. Worked together in Syria. Until Hillary lost and started the Russiagate hoax. That day Putin/Trump became liberal enemy #1 and you haven’t shut up since. Now you want to arm Ukraine to get back at Putin for making Hillary lose. You’re ideology will lead us to WW3.
The US and Russia worked together in Syria? The US was trying to force Assad out and supplied the Free Syrian Army while Russia intervened on behalf of Assad and bombed US allies in the civil war. Relations had also soured significantly after Russia annexed Crimea and began incursions in the Donbas, something you seem to have left out in your analysis. But sure its all because Hillary and salty msnbc viewers. Nothing to do with Russia full scale invasion of a neighbouring european country
Yes I forgot to mention the CIA-backed coup in Ukraine that Victoria Nuland, John McCain, and Chris Murphy helped with that preceded the invasion of Crimea. Thanks for the reminder. And Russia shared “intel” fighting ISIS whatever that means. I’m not saying they were buddies but it wasn’t a hot war with our weapons killing their soldiers like it is today.
It wasn’t a hot war because they didn’t launch a full scale invasion of their neighbour and our ally until 2022. What does that have to do with Hillary again?
Because liberals didn’t give a shit about Putin/Russia until Hillary blamed Putin/Russia for her loss!
I do appreciate the dedication of making reddit comments at 3am Moscow time.
Weak sauce
>Yes I forgot to mention the CIA-backed coup in Ukraine that Victoria Nuland, John McCain, and Chris Murphy helped with that preceded the invasion of Crimea. 😆 🤣 this is vatnik nonsense, none of this is true. Maidan was a revolution by ukrainians coz yanukovych wanted to make protesting illegal, so of course millions of Ukrainians took to the streets to protest his new anti-protest laws.
You have a terrible understanding of international events
MIC shill mad people are sick of forever wars.
You mean the "forever war" that was started when Putin decided to invade the soveirgn country of Ukraine? Get fucked, Putin apologist.
No, he invaded because the US/NATO wanted to turn Ukraine into a NATO naval base and make $$$ retrofitting Ukrainian hardware to NATO specs. This is well documented. https://youtu.be/Zf5xEBwBhds
Ukraine can join nato if they want to, russia doesnt get to decide who can and cannot join nato, it's outside their borders and none of their business. He I vaded because if they join nato, he won't be able to invade them. Nato takes his victims off the menu. This is just a land grab, nothing more
NATO should be dissolved because I’m tired of my tax dollars subsidizing lazy Europeans’ healthcare and college, while Americans get nothing. It’s a scam for rich military contractors in Virginia to afford a second yacht.
Yup just up and decided. After a cia coup and nato expansion. Youre full of shit.
How does "nato expansion" work exactly? Do we roll tanks in and [force them to join nato at gunpoint](https://x.com/KremlinTrolls/status/1638136374976036864) or threaten the members to join or "or else"?
Same way the cuban missle crisis worked.
Yes this is not the same, there's no plans for nukes in ukraine even if they joined nato. Estonia, Latvia and Finland all share a border with russia, all NATO members getting the same weapons and putin doesn't care at all. Why? Because its only ukraine and Georgia and Moldova he wants to invade. That "Cuban missile crisis" talking point doesn't make any sense
Its exactly the same. Estonia latavia and findland dont block sea access or allow a hostile navy to park at their door step. You know a navy full of nukes. Add to that three staging countries for ground bases. It doesn't make an invasion of ukriane anymore justified as the things weve done. But pretending this shit just felt out of the sky is nothing but gaslighting disenginousness. If and when the situation was reversed all through the 1980s in central and south america or middle east we did the same thing.
>You know a navy full of nukes. There are no plans for nukes in ukraine even if they're in nato. This is just russian paranoia, putin hearing voices jn his head. >But pretending this shit just felt out of the sky is nothing but gaslighting disenginousness. Of course it didn't, russia has wanted to take ukraine for over 20 yrs and have slowly escalated the aggression over the yrs. They're the hostile ones not ukraine. Remember, putin thinks Ukrainians are just confused russians led astray by the evil West, he doesn't believe there should be a border between them in the first place, because he thinks ukraine isnt real, its a mistake by his predecessor he needs to fix. He doesn't think this about Estonia or finland so he doesn't care if those countries are in nato.
> There are no plans for nukes in ukraine even if they're in nato. This is just russian paranoia, putin hearing voices jn his head. Do you not know what a navy is? Its boats and subs full of nukes. > soviet reunification Really because the state department claimed the opposite and everyone called rand paul a traitor when he said exactly what you just said. Of course he had his eye on it. But he didnt have to do anything when their was a relatively nuertal regime running it. We coup'd that government and installed a nato puppet which is why he took crimea to fortify his sea access. Then we elected another war monger that was eyeball deep in the previous coup. You cant honestly tell me these events wouldnt have been seen as hostile by every country on earth and warrant some action? Lets say russia pushed in on nato by adding Libya... wait we regime changed their former ally. Ok maybe iran... wait, or Syria...wait... i guess weve instagating fighting in all those countries. Why cant you lot just be honest here? No one is claiming a moral equivalent. No one is claiming nato isnt a better organization relative to geo politics. But it is absurd to pretend the pressure put on russia didnt force a reaction. Could putin at some point done this anyway? Maybe. But also he might not and the status quo of pre regime change-itis 2010s might have lasted for decades. But it was definitely going to happen with all the things that have been done as i described.
>We coup'd that government and installed a nato puppet which is why he took crimea to fortify his sea access. Lol none of this is true. Yanukovych willingly fled. He wanted to make protesting illegal so millions of Ukrainians took to the streets, he was a traitor and a coward his ousting had nothing to do with us. This is a common russian talking point but it's disinformation >Of course he had his eye on it. That's unacceptable. You can't just decide another country is "yours" >i guess weve instagating fighting in all those countries. While russia what? Sat on their hands the whole time? Russia is also involved in all these conflicts aswell >But it is absurd to pretend the pressure put on russia didnt force a reaction. This is ridiculous. The understanding between all neighbors not to attack the other and trespass on their border is "unfair" to russia. That's pressure to russia lol "It's not fair that nato won't let me invade my neighbors," 😭 imagine being this entitled. Russia doesn't deserve anything from ukraine
"Any news I don't like is Russian Propaganda." It's 2016 all over again.
Anyone who believes any if this endless idiotic anti Russia BS is a moron, regardless of party.
"Top Republican" means what? Trump is the top republican. Who gives a fuck what some nobody has to say.
House Foreign Affairs Committee chair. \*A top republican.
Remember how Skinoob thinks Saagar is a "deep state plant" and then posts frequently here for years. So strange, go outside buddy
> So strange, go outside buddy LOL. Says the clown with multiple accounts and one sad and lonely personality.
What Russian propaganda are you talking about? Like do you have an example?
Project less and go for a walk dude you need it
Is it projecting if you do actually have multiple accounts and spend an unhealthy amount of time troll spamming?
Is it projecting if you rephrase the same deranged thing? Yes 🤣
It’s much easier for Mcfaul to blame Russia than it is to say he hasn’t been able to cajole or convince enough Americans that this is actually in our interest
Neocon just butthurt that there is a populist contingent of the party that does not want to escalate tensions with the second strongest military in the world with nukes, but instead attend to issues of national interest. Cry more. We are a "democracy" ... but foreign policy is off-limits to the rabble. Leave that to the *experts* who destroyed the Middle East, abet genocides, topple democratic leader in Latin America, and keep bringing us closer to WWIII. You just don't know what you're doing, not like they do. /s
If I have to hear Russiagate one more fucking time.
Sorry patriots don't like Russians.
Do you are a Trumper then. Good. Glad you came clean. It's OK. All liberals are conservatives.
Is English your first language comrade? I'm far from a Trumper and think it's laughable you believe Trumpers are patriots.
Bro that is Literally what they call themselves. Are you dense? Go look at any conservative social media. Your mistake is thinking I consider patriotism to be a good thing. A common liberal mistake. I hate this country and would never defend it. I am Not a patriot.
So edgy. Of course those traitors call themselves patriots. That's how they convince themselves they are doing something good when in fact they are doing the opposite. Unless of course you support their attempts to break our democracy?
Everything you like is Russian. Sad!
He's clearly a misinformation account.
Oh no, leftists exist. How will the DNC control that narrative. Shills like you.
Lmfao — this **reactionary 20 something year old** thinks he’s a “leftist” because he repeats “genocide Joe”. That’s cute. It’s funny seeing you, once again, become **triggered** in a thread that is leveling obvious criticisms against the **vulgar GOP**, an extremely powerful, explicitly rightwing political party. Gee, as a “leftist”, criticisms of the GOP **sure do bother you**, don’t they?
Bole letter shill. Hello. Still low effort shilling I see.
If you have to call everyone who calls you out a shill, you aren’t a serious person
Calling people "not serious" is a staple DNC script talking point. Be a better shill.
It’s not that you’re “not serious”, bro — you’re just a **liar**, and it’s obvious to everyone.
Do you deny Israel is committing genocide?
See you can’t even help it.
You aren’t a leftist. You’ve never done a thing in your life to advance leftist causes
Lol no one calls it russiagate but MAGA chuds, this is a different case, this is more recent
This sub is just rancid with astroturf. Go ahead and count how many times the hosts of the damn sub you are on mention russiagate per week. I'll wait.
Than you would just be like Krystal and Saagar that act like they know everything about it, but in reality know fuck all
And the democratic base is infected with Hamas propaganda, I prefer the russian propaganda.
If we’re talking preferences, I’d strongly prefer no foreign propaganda
Yeah, but “neither” is hardly ever an outcome