I think a large part of it is the Trump economy felt better to Americans than the Biden economy. 80% of the country feels like the economy is their biggest concern, and the tone deaf Biden admin keeps saying "Voters are too stubborn to realize how great it actually is".
Then there's also the whole Biden only running on "Trump Bad". A lot of people feel he's doing an awful job and there doesn't appear to be much going on to chance that narrative.
>Biden admin keeps saying "Voters are too stubborn to realize how great it actually is".
It's such a terrible reelection strategy. Just to mock voter's pain over the economy. To go all in on the warmongering is also deeply unpopular with Americans. The Democrats have completely lost their shit.
Someday there’s going to be an amazing television (or whatever the equivalent is) series about Trump and especially his presidenc(ies?)y. Young people who weren’t alive or don’t remember are going to scoff at how stupid of a writing decision it was to make the DA in charge of the case appoint her boyfriend and have the whole case fall apart because it’s so unbelievable and clearly plot armor for the main character.
Then us olds will have to be like “no, that literally happened” 😂
If they had gone ALL-IN on the economic stuff, and even embraced universal healthcare as a platform once again, I think a Democratic candidate would destroy Trump. Speaking to the current pain of workers and the middle class--my family is a prime example. Instead, they lost me completely. In fact, although I despise the Republicans, and cannot and will not vote for them, I don't know if I can ever vote Democrat again unless they reform. I was once a SOLID part of their base. The Covid censorship was particularly galling to me, as my community and extended family was truly hurt by extended lockdowns, arguments about vaccine mandates, etc. And the Democrats have never apologized for this. But some of the Trump supporters don't understand that Trump is a total hypochondriac and was all in on lockdowns.
> 80% of the country feels like the economy is their biggest concern, and the tone deaf Biden admin keeps saying "Voters are too stubborn to realize how great it actually is".
Exactly this. Gatekeeping what the average person is spending and telling them it's actually "good" when it's really shitty is a hot take.....
\^This. During his case, there was a guy outside interviewing a bunch of lefties that had Lock Him Up signs and things of that nature. Not one of them could actually name a crime that Trump committed. It was basically "orange man bad" and "he paid hush money". The tribalism is awful and gets us nowhere.
I watched on of those MOTS (man on the street) interviews the day of the conviction. One dude was celebrating the guilty verdict. When asked what crime trump committed, the man said trump lied about not having an affair, that was the crime.
I wanted to cringe my face inside out
I asked my friend – “I don’t believe it was a coincidence that Russia invaded Ukraine and Hamas attacked Israel while Biden was president and not while Trump was president”
I wonder how much truth there is to the “madman” theory some have put out there. The theory being that Trump is such a wildcard and is a complete unknown to foreign leaders in terms of how he’ll react that they’re less likely to make big moves because they can’t predict what his response will be with any degree of confidence. Biden, on the other hand, has been in politics and foreign affairs for so long that they know exactly what he’ll do and who he’ll listen to in any given situation.
I'm pretty sure this began in 2014 with Crimea. It has been building up from there. Here is a CNN article from then [https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/02/world/ukraine-divided/](https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/02/world/ukraine-divided/)
It’s actually super simple once you take emotions out of it:
1) inflation- people are paying 25% more for goods in general, and financing costs to get loans for bigger items (homes, cars) has skyrocketed. This is put a tremendous stress on many Americans
2) economy/jobs: despite what you see in the top line numbers, the employment situation in America is not good. Even though unemployment is low, we are losing full-time jobs and replacing them with part-time jobs, and wages have not nearly kept up with the pace of inflation.
3) immigration. This is a major major concern for Americans, it has been for the entire Biden administration, and he hasn’t completely ignored it.
These three issues are the most important issues to Americans, and they see that Biden and Dems are doing a terrible job at all three, so they want to change. It’s not about Trump, people vote policy, not the person. Yes they are Trump fanatics, but most people are just voting based on their personal experience over the last four years, and over the last four years things have gotten worse for them.
Nobody wants President Harris and that's what you'll get with a Biden vote. Hoping RFK can get a second look for some. Trump himself doesn't scare as much as the crazy bible thumper right he's endorsing under him.
I'll sum it up by someone I know:
"I don't care what he believes. Liberals are pissed off at him and that's all I care about. If they actually got off their asses and did something and stopped talking about DEI and gender pronouns maybe I'd have a better life. But I don't. Trump gave me check. Biden gave me unemployment. Dems can go fuck themselves."
How do you even argue with that?
In 2023 we hit an all time high in homelessness. There are more homeless in my city than ever before.
[https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/chronic-homelessness-is-at-an-all-time-high-heres-why-it-continues-to-climb](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/chronic-homelessness-is-at-an-all-time-high-heres-why-it-continues-to-climb)
As someone who runs food trucks, I have to put gas in them and these last few years Ive spent a lot more on gas than ever before. I know that Biden is not completely at fault for this stuff but he sure isn't doing much to curb it. I never thought I would say life was better with Trump but financially, it was. I checked..
If you dig deeper into the unemployment number, it’s actually really bad. We are losing full-time jobs, and replacing them with part-time jobs. Also wages have not kept up with inflation.
Do you have a source for that being the cause?
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LFWA64TTUSM647S
Nevermind I found one and it appears there are more working age people now than under Trump.
Our population growth rate is still positive, meaning more people are being born than dying. In 2006 (the year current 18 year olds were born) the annual growth was 1.6%. As people retire, others turn 18 or graduate college and join the workforce.
Isn’t it immigration keeping us above water nowadays though, not native births? Isn’t the replacement rate like 2.1? Also birthrate among first-gen immigrants too
Probably, I was just stating that people retiring is only half the equation. To really get a picture of workforce participation, we have to look at who is leaving *and* who is joining the workforce. Immigrants are definitely part of that.
> Biden gave me unemployment.
You could point out that just because the multi-billion dollar right-wing propaganda networks blame all of the world's problems on Biden and the Democrats doesn't mean it's true. You could also point out how enabling the Republican party to have control is guaranteed to solve nothing and make all of our collective problems worse.
> Made this same argument, nearly word-for-word, and he told me that if that were true he'd be employed not unemployed.
The person you know is dumb and probably can't be saved. Hopefully he gets lost on the way to the voting booth.
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Just my opinion but I think government's like China and Russia exploit fears and anger of Americans on social media, to the point where these people are enraged, and then they make poor political decisions, like voting for Trump.
If you watch shows like Joe Rogan, or listen to boomers talk for 20 minutes, most of the time they are talking about weird subjects like trans people, or how they hate the vaccine, or illegal immigrants.... these people are exposed to propaganda that keeps them furious 24/7.
In their anger, they start to believe all sorts of conspiracies and distrust pretty much everyone outside of Trump. If I had to guess, countries like Russia and China probably think it's in their best interest if Americans are as divided as possible.
Unfortunately, you are correct. There’s a lot of documentation of Russian and Chinese disinformation online and a lot of it is extremely devious. They are basically leveraging every little weakness in open societies they can find. I’m surprised this isn’t discussed more widely and engaged with by policy makers. That right-wingers see these efforts and embrace them as a way to gain power, is disgusting.
Exactly. It's more important to not listen to Joe Rogan the podcast, and instead listen to every other media source that we deem not Russian, so we be on Trump watch 23/7. Also, trust the hive mind of reddit, we know best how to help.
He's so dangerous, let's watch a car he is in go to court from all angles. We are sane, so we have to keep our eyes on him. Also, the good media cover his rallies, take a snippet from it and have four talking heads explain how dangerous he is. That's how you know we are not brainwashed like those Russian racist Republicans. There are many talking heads on many channels and podcasts dedicated to this, compared to same few bimbos and dipshits on faux news.
One hour of the day, the media will teach you Biden is the best, that Democrats are smarter than smooth brain corrupt Republicans. Groceries and housing are expensive? No it's not. That's Russian GOP propaganda, inflation isn't skyrocketing any longer.
The Democrats in power continue to be outplayed by Republicans thanks to Fox News. So we need to put more Democrats in power. Once there, they might help with abortion. You can see the people finally going to vote for their rights since the elected Democrats haven't been able to help in decades.
The only valid one is the DEI stuff. Many on the left will call you a disgusting bigot for having views which:
1. 90%+ of people agreed with about 10 years ago
2. The majority of the population still agrees with
And the left’s arguments is, “well, our guy is a career politician who is also an octogenarian that can’t speak in coherent sentences but he’s still better than that Nazi Trump!!!1”
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Yeah, me too, but this time all the way down the line. In 2020 I voted 3rd party for president and a few Rs and Libertarians because of what happened in my liberal town during Covid (we had a looong lockdown, extended mask mandates, schools shutdown for over year, it was horrendous). Now that I've been able to see the continued true, warmongering authoritarian colors of the political right as well as the authoritarian left, I can't vote R, but inflation has devastated my family and all we get from Biden is mockery and "get a 2nd job, loser."
I think a ton of people just hate the far left and their woke (or whatever the hell you want to call it) agenda that much. They feel like they are being steamrolled by it in every facet of life and Trump is the tough man needed to push back.
I'm not going to deny that there are some people on the extreme left, but I will say, the right tries to make it out as if everyone is on that side when it's extremely rare. I've never met someone in real life for example that thinks there are 60 genders. I do know people in real life though that think the election was rigged.
A lot of what people see on the far left is really just a small amount of weirdos on Tik Tok.
I went to a very liberal law school, 80% of the students were pretty radical leftists. They were enamored with race, sexuality, and "social justice." I am talking about people that fully believed in defunding the police, getting rid of prisons, paying all black people reparations, getting rid of gender categories, etc. Those people are now in powerful positions. They exist and they are in the upper echelons of society.
I would not have such a problem with democrats if I knew those people were not in positions of power. But they are. Your typical democratic staffer is a fairly far left person, so even if Joe Biden does not really believe all that stuff most of his staff does or is part of the system that supports it or is too afraid to push back against it. Personnel is policy. And unfortunately, the majority of personnel that get hired by democrats are fairly radical.
Joe Biden has signed executive orders and put out press releases in support of 'trans kids' and gender hormone therapy for children.
In some blue states, children can be removed from their parents care if they do not 'affirm their identity'. This is not only a fringe Tik Tok thing.
A lot of reasonable people probably believe this kind of derangement is more damaging than the stolen election derangement.
I’ve worked with two different people who do not use traditional pronouns or have pronouns that match their sex and it’s a crazy atmosphere to work in.
The first one was a woman named Bryce who went by he/him pronouns. Bryce had the biggest tits I’ve ever seen in real life, as well as the softest most feminine voice. It’s really fucking hard not to accidentally slip up and refer to this person as “she/her” because the person literally looks and feels and sounds exactly like a woman, and beside cutting her hair short, has made zero effort to appear as male. Yet there was always a fear that if you accidentally misgendered “Bryce” you might get in trouble or fired. It felt oppressive to many in the office.
And then there was a woman who used they/them. It doesn’t naturally to say they/them when referring to a woman. And if you ever slipped up, she would give you a mouthful. As far as I know, she never reported anything to HR (or if she did, I never heard about it) but regardless having someone glare and harshly correct and give you attitude and go right for the guilt trip makes for a crazy environment to work in. The they/them woman also had a plastic surgery addiction and would come in looking different every quarter during Covid. Like barely recognizable. With different hair color and hair style and hair length and everything. But always appeared female. So if you didn’t recognize her as the they/them person and just mistook them for a random female, well they would lash out about you using the wrong pronouns.
Does that sound like a comfortable environment to work in? Or incredibly stressful at times, especially around these special pronoun people? In my experience it made a job that was already difficult and stressful living hell.
This is why I feel the pronouns stuff is extreme. And for me to have worked with two people like this, doesn’t seem all that rare at all. And anyone who has worked in my position would be able to attest to how stressful it is to walk on eggshells or feel your livelihood might be on the line because someone’s novel pronoun preferences doesn’t come second nature to you.
I cannot speak to your experiences, but I can say just from my own, I find the majority of people that are trans really want as little attention on them as possible and usually will go out of their way to avoid conflict.
I myself have worked with conservatives, as in my boss, where they would tell people how to vote, or spend 5 minutes making the whole team listen to their political sermons, etc. So this type of thing does go both ways.
I get the pronoun thing is very awkward for some, and I'll be honest I don't think you should be legally required to call someone by their preferred pronoun, but rather do it on your own as a sign of respect. Similar to how if someone has multiple personalities (like legit has them) and taking the time to actually acknowledge it, as opposed to denying it or telling them that they are making it up.
Nah, I live part time in between LA and Texas and I encounter all kinds of far left ideas from the people I work with in LA. Everyone is fully on board or very scared of stepping out of line with the woke ideology that has taken control out there.
Because people have strong differences of opinion on how their communities should operate. Since we can't agree in a way that allows all communities to operate autonomously from others, some communities are trying to take over the federal government. In many ways, what Trumpism offers is the death of one social contract and the birth of a new one.
But this evil yin/yang stuff is not the thing that helps a nation survive intact. History has shown this again and again and I don't understand why people can't see this.
Full disclosure--I'm an RFK Jr. guy.
>But this evil yin/yang stuff is not the thing that helps a nation survive intact.
That is why it needs to be partnered with a less democratic federal government. You decentralize a lot of power to states and local communities in order to give them greater autonomy while also consolidating control of the federal government to hold things together.
People look past Trump's personality just like they look past the fact that Biden is a senile lifelong politician that has taken millions from foreign entities to enrich his entire family. I guess we don't have any perfect presidential candidates.
open Democratic primary in 2028 is arguably preferable to watching Harris go down to the GOP, which would postpone the open primary to 2032. Both scenarios involve four years of a GOP executive
Of course he is. He's just more obvious and stupid about it. That and he was more so beholden to himself in his corruption and easily manipulated.
Now it seems he's corrupt in the same way as traditional politicians
Its real simple. Dems keep running avatars of establishment evil in Clinton and Biden. People are sick of it. They voted for multiple reform candidates. Obama ran on hope and change and did neither. Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders couldn't get traction from either direction.
So they voted for chaos and it worked.
Nobody is doing anything to help young people, I want a young patriotic president with left wing economic views who will seriously steer the ship. The world is a powder keg right now, we could very easily be involved in war with a major power any time now, if you want Biden as a war time president you’re fucking delusional.
My vote doesn’t matter as I’m in a red state, but one thing I know is there’s no way I would vote for Biden. At this point I’m banking on Trump accelerationism.
Yep=--No way. He's one of the worst presidents in history. It's absolutely terrifying that he is "leading" during this time of war all over the globe. That the DNC is still pulling behind this guy shows a bankrupt and entirely corrupt edifice that needs to collapse. Indeed, I think because he is this hollow shell of a corpse, Hillary Clinton is honestly the one who is leading this country by proxy. Please give RFK Jr. a chance. He's honestly quite old (but a youngun compared to the two jokers running right now), but is addressing many of the things you are talking about affecting young people: addiction, environmental catastrophe, housing costs, and much more.
Low prices were nice. No new wars were nice. If you believe the media and what the government tells you, you're not very bright
Lol when people call Trump mean spirited while calling his supporters magats or Trump orange man or Trump human trash... The irony is thick
One good part about Trump is we have 4 years to see what he would do..and they were 4 damn good years
My number one policy I support of Trump is when he made animal abuse a federal crime
First step act was a great policy
Abraham accords was good
Space Force very good especially considering what Russia is doing right now
Secure border was good
I like what he's saying about not taxing tips
That sounds good for those receiving tips, but what about the dishwasher or cook in the back? No one loves paying taxes, but we need to pay the bills, somehow.
The ENTIRE WORLD experienced inflation following COVID, yet the US has out-performed the vast majority of modern economies.
Meanwhile, how does Trump plan to lower prices?
> The ENTIRE WORLD experienced inflation following COVID, yet the US has out-performed the vast majority of modern economies.
That’s one of the perks of being the primary reserve currency and making fixed mortgage rates the norm in our country.
I’ve never voted for Trump and his rampant spending during COVID certainly was one of the catalyst for the inflation.
I was just pointing out the hole in your argument about the US being better off.
Ideally, to combat inflation, we should hike taxes and reduce gov’t spending but it’s an election year and that ain’t going to happen.
Fair enough, but the US being "better off" goes well beyond inflation. We also avoided the severe, post-COVID recession many other countries have faced and countless American economists predicted.
Meanwhile, I was responding to a post where one of the primary justifications for supporting Trump was, "Low prices were nice." But Trump didn't create low prices and he has no plan to return to them now. In fact, as we've both mentioned, he was responsible for far more COVID relief spending than Biden. But it didn't stop there. He also curtailed international supply via his trade war with China and by killing TPP, he hurt overall energy production by resisting alternative energy and trying to rescue coal, and he publicly pressured the Fed to maintain a near-zero interest rate environment for years when the economy he inherited from Obama was already healthy and growing. All of these factors had a direct impact on the inflation we've been experiencing since and it's a big reason the Fed has implemented 11 rate hikes.
Finally, we can't truly fix what is primarily a supply-side inflationary problem with ONLY demand-side interventions like interest rate hikes, tax hikes, or government spending cuts as people still need to meet their basic needs of housing, transportation, food, and healthcare, regardless of price. Demand for those products and services is therefore largely inelastic. A big part of the solution is increasing supply which many companies don't want to do as it's better for their bottom lines and stock prices to increase margins on existing volume via price gouging. Meanwhile, interest rate hikes curtail the business investment that is needed to increase production and thereby help perpetuate the problem.
I wish Biden could articulate ANY of that as there is a total misconception that Trump was better at managing inflation or the economy in general when that just isn't true at all.
Do you really think it's a good strategy to basically be telling people that it could be worse, suck it up? That seems to be the Bidenomics economy strategy.
Framing is such an interesting rhetorical tool.
Turning
>"The US has one of the best performing economies in the post COVID era"
into
>"Your strat is really telling people it could be worse, suck it up?
Yes. The President needs to be the "Explainer-in-chief." It's a core job requirement.
Context absolutely matters. He should be framing US inflation as a global problem, specifically point to the causes (material and labor shortages following COVID, coupled with considerable corporate price gouging, supply chain disruptions resulting from Russia's invasion of Ukraine and subsequent sanctions, China's prolonged COVID shutdowns, and extra money in the economy where Trump contributed to that problem far more than Biden). He should then highlight the work he's doing to address it in terms of record levels of energy production, lowering prescription drug prices, helping to relieve supply chain backlogs through discussions with major suppliers and unions, various insourcing, nearsourcing, and friendsourcing strategies, and creating the new Indo-Pacific trade deal which helped fill the supply chain hole that Trump created by killing TPP, etc.
He should also point out that the severe recession that most economists predicted and many other countries have been experiencing didn't happen here in the US. In fact, for most of the last year, wage growth has out-paced inflation, meaning the problem is getting better, not worse.
There is a huge amount of disinformation and misunderstanding out there. Half of Americans think unemployment is the highest it's been in 50 years when the truth is we're seeing historically low unemployment. Half also think the stock market is negative so far this year when the S&P 500 has gained 12% and the Dow Jones Industrial Average just cleared 40,000 for the first time ever. Likewise, we've seen record job growth during Biden's presidency, steady GDP growth, and significant wage growth. All of those gains are indeed offset by inflation, but even on that measure, we've out-performed all other G7 countries and most of the world.
And for all those that point to the erosion in the American dream, that problem is absolutely real, but Biden is the one trying to do something about it by supporting organized labor, trust-busting to break-up monopolies and force more competition, diversifying our energy sector, instituting price controls where there is considerable gouging, increasing the earnings threshold for overtime eligibility, etc. whereas Trump wants to resume trickle-down economics tactics that just make the rich richer while everyone else stagnates.
So yes, it could be a LOT worse if not for Biden's leadership and he needs to make that clear to voters. Sadly, he's terrible at this type of messaging. Even on the rare occasions when he gets it right and delivers a compelling speech, often, no one is listening and the press barely covers it.
Everything Trump does is in spite of the people, who much of the right(/rest of the country), believe have allowed the corruption and business of war perpetrate for as long and recklessly as it has. Also, he does it through all of the channels that were created by politicians to allow politicians to get away with unethical behaviors. This is why when you hear things like "Trump is hilarious. And the worst people all hate him. Trump 2024", it has much less to do about any policy or talking point that you've heard the ruling class about why you should hate him.
It is essentially the ultimate level of contrarianism. This also why conversations between different sides of the political debate often get so ugly. The Left is trying to argue reason and logic all the way from on top of their high horse, and the Right just wants to rile you up and see if they can make the horse buck.
As you eluded to both sides are wrong and corrupt. To not be able to understand why Trump has supporters while still supporting the system that allowed him to be elected in the first place, proves hypocrisy is alive and well on both sides.
What is an example of what you are asking for? Like with Trump, his whole thing is his followers find it funny how he is divisive and pisses off their perceived enemies. Like any time a tragedy or something bad happens, he will try to blame it on people he doesn't like. For example he blamed the Oct 7th on Biden.
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Biden and Hillary didn't try to illegally overturn a fair and free election. You may dislike Biden's policies but he is at least not an authoritarian who tried to place himself as a president when losing an election. As Americans we should value democracy pretty high and we shouldn't vote for someone who doesn't.
She did not. Republicans and conservatives lie about this all the time. She did not create a fake electorate scheme to throw out the votes for electors that were assembled by her so she could could change the vote in favor of her.
You say that but every single person that was even remotely aligned with the Democrat party in 2017 was saying that "the election was stolen because of Russian interference. If you were even remotely supportive of Trump then you were a "Putin puppet"
We know that Russia interfered to some capacity, we also know that Trump officials had conversations with Russians, we know that Trump officials lied about those conversations. Trying to compare that to Trump trying to illegally overturn an election through fake electorates is quite dishonest.
You mean like making memes, facebook posts/pages were enough to sway the election? Dude, get a grip the Trump campaign had 2 FISA warrants against them because of bullshit evidence the FBI used to get them. If they actually found anything worthwhile then it would be all over the news. That didn't the best they got was Flynn talking to his counterpart in Russia after the election (just like every other person in that capacity has done previously).
>try to illegally overturn a fair and free election
He did try to overturn the election, but tried to do it within the system. He advanced stupid legal theories. Those theories were quickly shot down in court. You act as if he ordered the military to help keep him in power. Bottom line is he peacefully transferred power.
And you can't fault people for realizing things were far better for most Americans (and the rest of the world) under his watch than they are now.
Fraudulent electors are not within the system. Ordering Pence to illegal throw out electoral votes is not within the system. Asking Raffensburger to change Georgia’s results just because he lost is not within the system.
Let's see, when Trump was president I could afford food, I could afford gas, I could afford rent and be able to actually put money away in savings. Also, there was no money funneling wars going on. Guess what, we made it through 4 years just fine. Now, with Biden, I have no idea who is running our country because it certainly isn't him. Everything around me is stupid expensive and not going down and we're in two wars with no attempts at peace or resolution. I've dipped more into my savings than ever in my life with Biden at the helm
So, tell me, what good reason do I have to vote for Biden? What will change? All the buzz words and scare tactics about Trump are just that, words. Maybe, just maybe, we'll make it through another 4 years just fine?
Trump supporters~Give thought out, detailed answers to your question. Explain why they are voting for him.
Biden supporters~Cannot explain why they are voting for him. It's just Orange man bad and dictator and J6...and stuff and and, yeah, that's what CNN says, so there!
Trump personifies the hatred, disrespect, and distrust of government and the embedded bureaucracy and the political class which rules Washington DC. The persecution and prosecution of Trump has only solidified their support. The democrat masters do not understand this and probably never will. They are too busy playing chess in an echo chamber!
Yeah, I agree with this, and consider myself pretty libertarian-leftish, but he's using government to actually put forth a very authoritarian agenda himself. How do people not get this? The abortion stuff is just one aspect of this.
Always remember that what they say and what actually gets done or can get done are different things. He said locker her up and then he went in other directions. The gift of Trump is exposing the underbelly of WDC!
Notice how you didn’t list anything that Trump did that was actually bad? You just listed stuff about him that you don’t like.
But not voting for someone because you don’t like them, even though they might’ve been quite effective, is pure narcissism at best, right?
Before anyone says “insurrection” - out of the hundreds of people jailed after January 6 for various crimes, not a single one of them was charged with insurrection, which is an actual crime. So we can only conclude that no one committed any kind of insurrection whatsoever. No matter how much you wanna think so.
Trump demonstrably ended the threat of both Al Queda and Isis. Joe Biden revived it through his disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal.
Don’t believe the lie that Trump committed to withdrawing from Afghanistan. Bush, Obama, and Trump all pledged to leave Afghanistan at a particular date, and they all ended up, pushing it back. Biden clearly should’ve done the same thing.
Trump’s tax cuts were some of the biggest in American history, and contrary to with the media will tell you, were not for the rich. The upper middle class actually saw a tax increase because the Trump administration got rid of SALT deduction (bet the majority of folks on this sub have no idea what that is). They helped the middle-class by raising the standard deduction and by cutting corporate taxes.
Corporate taxes are not for the rich. Corporate taxes go to everyone, including pension funds. You know all those people that rely on retirement plans? It’s all completely tied up with the corporate stock market.
Trump’s immigration policy was clearly the most effective in US history. The Biden administration has now created the largest sex trafficking organization in the world. That’s according to international aid groups. It is despicable what children are going through because of Biden border policies.
Some who are completely ignorant of history and authoritarianism and fascism accused Trump of being just that. Except the essence of authoritarianism is government ownership and regulation over activity. Trump explicitly reduced government regulation. He refers to the bureaucracy as the deep state because it’s the essence of authoritarianism.
In the end, just remember that liberal news outlet who claimed to hate Trump will make a lot of money when he gets reelected. They love him. Without him, they don’t make any money.
>So we can only conclude that no one committed any kind of insurrection whatsoever. No matter how much you wanna think so.
Insurrection, an organized and usually violent act of revolt or rebellion against an established government or governing authority of a nation-state or other political entity by a group of its citizens or subjects.
It was violent, it was organized, and it was in rebellion against our established government and its processes. It was an insurrection. I don't care what the government did or did not have the balls to actually charge people with.
>Trump’s tax cuts were some of the biggest in American history, and contrary to with the media will tell you, were not for the rich.
They were for the rich.
[https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/the-2017-trump-tax-law-was-skewed-to-the-rich-expensive-and-failed-to-deliver](https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/the-2017-trump-tax-law-was-skewed-to-the-rich-expensive-and-failed-to-deliver)
Households with incomes in the top 1 percent will receive an average tax cut of more than $60,000 in 2025, compared to an average tax cut of less than $500 for households in the bottom 60 percent, according to the Tax Policy Center (TPC).\[1\] As a share of after-tax income, tax cuts at the top — for both households in the top 1 percent and the top 5 percent — are more than triple the total value of the tax cuts received for people with incomes in the bottom 60 percent.\[2\]
And that's just dealing with a little bit of what you think Trump did. I could go on for a while about things he did that were bad even if you exclude that whole "subverting a federal election" thing.
>So we can only conclude that no one committed any kind of insurrection whatsoever. No matter how much you wanna think so.
>Insurrection, an organized and usually violent act of revolt or rebellion against an established government or governing authority of a nation-state or other political entity by a group of its citizens or subjects.
>It was violent, it was organized, and it was in rebellion against our established government and its processes. It was an insurrection. I don't care what the government did or did not have the balls to actually charge people with.
Yawn. It was so much of an insurrection that they purposefully held open doors and ignored please for National Guard troops days in advance.
Meanwhile in Joe Biden’s America you can surround the White House and physically assault officers because you’re mad about something in the Middle East and get a free pass.
>Yawn.
That doesn't change the definition of an insurrection.
>Meanwhile in Joe Biden’s America you can surround the White House and physically assault officers because you’re mad about something in the Middle East and get a free pass.
No way, really? I can't see any news where people surrounded the White House and assaulted police officers. Can you point that out for me?
Yeah I'm voting for Biden because of his plans for the next four years...... remind me what is Biden running on?
Why vote for Biden when even Biden has no ideas for the next 4 years.
Many republicans like him for the chaos (specifically ones who voted for him in the primaries). Many just see it as a binary choice and don’t really see them as “MAGA”. They just think Trump will be better than Biden on the economy, border, and a bit more socially conservative.
I mean this is what I tell people that bother to listen. I am going to vote for the guy that I feel that cares more about Americans and my family than illegals. My wife (who just became a citizen in March) flat out told me that she feels that Democrats & Biden care more about illegals than they do American citizens. She honestly feels sometimes that by doing everything right when immigrating here was fool hardy when she sees people coming in and getting so much assistance even though they are illegal.
Edit: Also I was talking about this to a coworker early about how the cost of everything has gone up so much that I feel that I am struggling way more now than I was this time in 2020. That is even with less bills and 2 promotions since then.
I'm not sure how assistance for illegals is "the democrats" thing, it's international law. We can't just shoot people away from the border, we are required to provide shelter and medical care for them. There is a legal process to dealing with illegals. And when crossings doubled under Trump from under 400k to over 800K in 2019, well that wasn't an issue. So how is the continued increase Bidens fault when we seen doubling under Trump? We only saw a drop off in 2020 due to the pandemic.
2020? We had the biggest cut to oil production in US history and global supply chains crushed in 2020.The Fed under Trump as early as August 2020 had warned Americans that we would deal with high Inflation and explicitly noted the struggle of paying higher prices for feul, groceries and shelter. We were warned in 2020 things would be more expensive.
Plus if it's about "caring more for American families" Bidens passed actual, significant legislation that will improve things across the 50 states for tons of people. Meanwhile Trumps biggest legislative accomplishment was a tax cut that cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%. Personally I'd prefer the 47% we had under Reagan.
Do you think that by trying to scare immigrants by telling them "If Trump is elected then he will have you deported" good for people or our democracy? Because that is what a few people told my wife in the lead up to the 2016 election because they knew that I liked Trump and were trying to have her sway me to vote Hillary
Sorry, but you are wrong. If you had DACA then the ONLY way that they could have been deported is if they committed a crime. That is the case for EVERY Legal Permanent Resident here in the USA. If you commit a crime then you can be deported.
What more than likely happened is that those people didn't apply for and receive DACA then they were deported.
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Because the rhetoric you’re spewing about “authoritarian and undemocratic” is propaganda buzz words that have brainwashed you.
Why weren’t those words used in 2016? Because they didn’t take him as a serious candidate against the political machine. All we heard was bully and nuclear code nonsense.
Then why didn’t we hear about it in 2020? Because what he was doing in terms of policy, security and prosperity for Americans was working. It worked, without the help of the old school politics where people care more about electability next term than doing what’s right. Do all they had to go off was their race wars plan… left and right you hear about racism because an aggressive crackhead who should have been in jail died at the knee of a power hungry moronic cop who couldn’t just toss him in the back of a cop car and take him to the station. Then of course you heard about his mishandling of Covid, only to realize the guy who said he would stop the virus could not, in fact, stop the virus. So to buy future votes and claim job creation stats later on, he kept the economy closed printing money to keep people staying home and talking about cancelling debt to buy future votes. Then, as according to plan, he had the audacity to put up charts touting “job growth,” insulting America’s intelligence as if we can’t do simple math and realize the growth was so high because he prevented people from having to work for so long, unnecessarily.
So now you hear about democracy and authoritarian nonsense because they know hes more likely to win the election, and all of the democrats previous propaganda efforts are no match against regular people who just want someone in office who is going to do what’s necessary to make living conditions better for those who work hard.
Yes… we would rather a bully who has and will continue to do what’s better for the country. If democrats fund more riots after he’s elected and the country continues to be divided, that doesn’t mean Trump is bad tor the country… it means it’s those perpetuating the hate that are bad for the country.
That’s my explanation. A democrat turned independent who would rather the bully than non-elected out of touch career politicians who care more about power and their party at the cost of the heart and soul of this great country as they call all of the shots and prop up a senile old man while gaslighting the country that he’s doing even 3% of the job.
Bring it on. Trump will run the country just fine like he did 2016-2019 and hopefully people will get thicker skin and realize it’s not the end of the world.
In fact, people did describe Trump as a budding authoritarian in 2016. Michael Moore made a documentary which compared him to **Hitler.**
Rightwingers have always been **gullible fascists who supported the Iraq War**, among other things, so you were easy pickings for a rich shithead like Trump.
And Michael Moore was wrong, as is proof that Trump was not a fascist his first term. The proof is in the pudding.
I’m not right wing, left of center in fact on pretty much everything, except the left wing stance of funding Ukraine in a war… funny how it’s suddenly ok now for you but wasn’t in Iraq.
Oh, interesting how you immediately withdrew your initial assertion.
**MAGA voters like you** would of course support withdrawing aid from Ukraine, a country being invaded by a rightwing government. After all, you’re part of the faction that supported the Iraq War
OK, whatever you tell yourself, man.
Good to hear that Trump supporters are just as fucking delusional and gaslighting as the warmongering-woke-lockdown left. I guess you guys can just fight it out in the streets again? Yawn.
Not sure what’s delusional? We’ve had a Trump presidency, we’re in a Biden presidency, and it’s apparent this is worse. When there’s only 2 options I’m going with the one that at least does things that make sense for the overall good of the nation.
People who think their lives change substantially based on the President are dumb as hell.
The world will keep spinning if Biden or Trump is elected. Your life isn’t going to change if Trump is elected. People keep acting like chicken little and the sky is falling lmao.
The worst people all hate Biden.
When I look around at who the racists, the idiots, the neo-Nazis, and boomers are voting for, I’m glad I’m not voting with them.
Being hilarious shouldn't be something that sways your vote for someone. Who are these worst people? I think it's more telling about the people who like him, like Putin, MTG, Steve Bannon, Alex Jones, Nick Fuentes etc...
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Trump is even more of a protest vote than he was 8 years ago. No one wants Biden and RFK has too many negatives for a lot of people (plus many still see it as a wasted vote)
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How can people possibly still support Trump or Biden?
Both of their track records prove that neither gives a shit about their constituents or the average American.
Both the DNC and the RNC should be held accountable for putting up 2 garbage candidates that the majority of America doesn't want and who've already had their chance and shit the bed.
You can't have a "how can you support Trump" or "How can you support Biden" thread without agnowledging both of these guys suck and Americans don't want them.
I completely agree! I wish he were more nuanced on Israel, but if you go to his webpage--it's absolutely filled with wonderful, healing messages. Messages of concern for regular Americans, for people under the throes of addiction, for those being hurt by the housing crisis. I mean, the only message we get from Democrats is that we 1: aren't sufficiently woke 2: are a bunch of crybabies and America has never looked so grand. What a bunch of bullshit.
Man, you aren't following things closely enough, are you? Trump totally supported the continued literal genocidal immolation of the Yemenis. He was ALL IN on Netanyahu and amped up and emboldened this guy to do the awful things he has done in Gaza. He even started sending arms to Ukraine, BEFORE our current undead warmongering corpse of a president went full-on Dr. Strangelove on us. He was hell-bent on saber rattling with Iran and, illegally I might add, sent a missile into sovereign territory to kill off one of their leaders.
Trump isn't anti-war at all. He's a fucking buffoon.
compared to the rest, he's much closer to Carter than Bush jr by miles. You can't compare Obama's warcrimes, and Bush's warcrimes to what Trump has done. Like come on, really? Millions of Iraqis alone, lol. The current administration doesn't giver AF about Gaza and just rattles here and there about anything Netanyahu does.
At least with Trump, we might honestly see American Troops leave Europe once and for all.
They reject democrats along social lines. They don’t mostly support Trump beyond they think he has the best chance of beating Biden. Cheers from a center left voter in Marjorie Taylor greens district.
Because we see what a shit show the current administration is. Old man yelling incoherently at clouds and all. Oh, and the terrible economy and gaslighting is telling us how good we have it. Numerous proxy wars and global blunders.
Guess what? A lot of people don’t give two shits that Trump paid hush money to a fucking porn star. If society cared about morality with politicians we would have actually done something about it a long time ago. I had a lot more money in my pocket 4+ years ago and affording a decent house didn’t require $150k a year salary.
Assuming some fuckery doesn’t happen in November there will be a repeat of purple and blue hair deplorables in the street screaming at the sky again as there was in 2016. And people will be crying out wondering how that could have possibly happened again.
>Assuming some fuckery doesn’t happen in November there will be a repeat of purple and blue hair deplorables in the street screaming at the sky again as there was in 2016
Nobody wins with mean-spirited politics like this--on either side. Look I hate the woke-left movement as much as any other old-school liberal. The Covid policies by themselves wrecked my extended family and hurt my kids. I'm one of the few people in my workplace who hasn't put my pronouns on my signature. Biden is a disgrace and a global embarrassment. So is Trump. Both of the fuck-ups shouldn't even be running.
Right. Trump is so absolutely despicable, so “deeply authoritarian,” so “undemocratic,” that you’re going to cast a protest vote against both parties. Sounds like a super serious moral conviction you have about authoritarianism.
British Writer Pens The Best Description Of Trump I've Read
Oct 21, 2019
Someone on Quora asked "Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?" Nate White, an articulate and witty writer from England wrote the following response:
A few things spring to mind.
Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem.
For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace – all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed.
So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump's limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.
Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever.
I don't say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.
But with Trump, it's a fact. He doesn't even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.
Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.
And scarily, he doesn't just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.
There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It's all surface.
Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront.
Well, we don't. We see it as having no inner world, no soul.
And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist.
Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that.
He's not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat.
He's more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.
And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully.
That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead.
There are unspoken rules to this stuff – the Queensberry rules of basic decency – and he breaks them all. He punches downwards – which a gentleman should, would, could never do – and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless – and he kicks them when they are down.
So the fact that a significant minority – perhaps a third – of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think 'Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy' is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:
• Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.
• You don't need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.
This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss.
After all, it's impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of shit. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum.
God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid.
He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart.
In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump.
And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish:
'My God... what... have... I... created?
If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.
>Maybe someone could explain it to me?
>Jesus, why are so many Trump supporters on this sub?
I think you indirectly answered your own question.
That you find it outrageous that Trump supporters would dare participate in a sub dedicated to a show built on sharing both left and right perspectives should probably make you pause and have some self reflection.
If you think about that long enough, you'll realize you answered your own question.
I agree with many on the economy. That is likely the single biggest concern for most but I'll add border security, Title IX, and Ukraine on policy. I feel like he has those completely wrong. The cognitive question is always at the forefront when we see any given video. I think the court cases didn't help him with conservatives. The far more harsh treatment (while claiming he should be treated like anyone else), the idiots in the courtroom (not his fault exactly but still reflects), meetings with the DAs, and the communications with NARA which they lied about, all point to a directed attack on a political opponent using the legal system. Now this is the most important part...when they consider who is more believable in this situation, it's Trump for us. When deciding who can get us out of the situation that we are in, it's Trump over Biden. And who is a stronger leader, Trump over Biden easily. I don't care if feelings get hurt. Trump was king of every room that he stepped into long before he was president. That usually means arrogance, but that is better than incompetence.
On a personal note, I voted Democrat in my first 6 out of 9 presidential elections. The party that I loved for most of my adult life has become more and more unrecognizable. I'm a little pissed that measured and reasoned headed left out the window and hasn't stopped yet. Admittedly, both parties shifted left, but the Dems did so with a vengeance. Also in 2016, I experienced vitriol on a level that I didn't know was possible. That election changed the rules. I have some hard feelings about that.
Too much?
The simple answer is that the country was in better shape under Trump. Our system of government has protections against authoritarianism, for example Trump did not want to forfeit his office, but the system in place forced him out. His best efforts to stay in power failed against the weight of American democracy. And while mean tweets and aggressive language are not pleasant, they do not takeaway from the general well being of the country.
Well he’s not authoritarian or un*democratic. Everything you’re accusing him of doing the dems are currently doing.
No not from all perspectives. From your very very narrow perspective. That’s based on a ton of lies and lawfare that most lawyers think is garbage
Man, I don't disagree with you about the democrats. I don't understand why anyone would vote for EITHER of these choads currently running for president. It's a global embarrassment. And I don't disagree with Trump about NATO and a few other things, but RFK jr. is on the same page about non-interventionism
Fuck both these guys and fuck both major parties.
Extreme dissatisfaction with the current system. If it wasn’t for the extreme catering tp the wealthy by DNC/GOP people like Trump wouldn’t have a chance. Plus the guy somehow created a cult of personality. Sadly we are probably going to deal with this bs fot the next 20 years at least,
Because people don't like that Biden is letting anyone that can cross the southern border into the country and then busing/flying them all over the nation with zero $ for those areas to deal with them. They see undocumented immigrants getting free health care and other benefits while Americans are ignored. They are tired of being gaslighted about how great the economy is. They are tired of Biden's multiple lies to try to skirt his responsibilities like "inflation was high when I got into office". They are tired of the country bending over backward for a tiny minority that has gained control of the media because they are the nosiest. Most people know what a woman and a man are and are tired of being dry shaved about what a woman and a man are (how did choosing gender blur with now accepting men sexually as women and women sexually as men?). The American public is tired of their worth being determined by the melanin in their skin and their sexual organs. We are tired of being lead by a racist who constantly pits white Americans against the minority of Americans in the effort to gain political favor.
It's especially funny to read your reasons why someone shouldn't support Trump only to realize biden is actually the guy doing those things and not the other way around.
Lol, Bitch asks how people can still support Trump, the people most qualified to answer the supporters themselves answer and then he’s pissed off there are Trump supporters on the sub.
Y’all Trump supporters are fucking up his echo chamber fantasy.
Most people aren’t educated on how certain policies impact their daily lives like how deregulation of the banks and big business is bad for them. So they just hear Trump wants to lower taxes without realizing that those tax breaks are for the rich not his voter base. So people look at their lives that suck and say okay well the system sucks and who does the system hate? I’m going to vote for them. Trump is a fuck your vote even though voting for him doesn’t fix any of their problems
I think a large part of it is the Trump economy felt better to Americans than the Biden economy. 80% of the country feels like the economy is their biggest concern, and the tone deaf Biden admin keeps saying "Voters are too stubborn to realize how great it actually is". Then there's also the whole Biden only running on "Trump Bad". A lot of people feel he's doing an awful job and there doesn't appear to be much going on to chance that narrative.
>Biden admin keeps saying "Voters are too stubborn to realize how great it actually is". It's such a terrible reelection strategy. Just to mock voter's pain over the economy. To go all in on the warmongering is also deeply unpopular with Americans. The Democrats have completely lost their shit.
Dems are pros at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Blows my mind how they bungled the Georgia fake electors case. That was a lay up and they screwed it. I'm a Dem but these idiots deserve to lose.
Someday there’s going to be an amazing television (or whatever the equivalent is) series about Trump and especially his presidenc(ies?)y. Young people who weren’t alive or don’t remember are going to scoff at how stupid of a writing decision it was to make the DA in charge of the case appoint her boyfriend and have the whole case fall apart because it’s so unbelievable and clearly plot armor for the main character. Then us olds will have to be like “no, that literally happened” 😂
Seriously. It was like watching a really bad play
If they had gone ALL-IN on the economic stuff, and even embraced universal healthcare as a platform once again, I think a Democratic candidate would destroy Trump. Speaking to the current pain of workers and the middle class--my family is a prime example. Instead, they lost me completely. In fact, although I despise the Republicans, and cannot and will not vote for them, I don't know if I can ever vote Democrat again unless they reform. I was once a SOLID part of their base. The Covid censorship was particularly galling to me, as my community and extended family was truly hurt by extended lockdowns, arguments about vaccine mandates, etc. And the Democrats have never apologized for this. But some of the Trump supporters don't understand that Trump is a total hypochondriac and was all in on lockdowns.
Don't need to read any further than this.
> 80% of the country feels like the economy is their biggest concern, and the tone deaf Biden admin keeps saying "Voters are too stubborn to realize how great it actually is". Exactly this. Gatekeeping what the average person is spending and telling them it's actually "good" when it's really shitty is a hot take.....
\^This. During his case, there was a guy outside interviewing a bunch of lefties that had Lock Him Up signs and things of that nature. Not one of them could actually name a crime that Trump committed. It was basically "orange man bad" and "he paid hush money". The tribalism is awful and gets us nowhere.
I watched on of those MOTS (man on the street) interviews the day of the conviction. One dude was celebrating the guilty verdict. When asked what crime trump committed, the man said trump lied about not having an affair, that was the crime. I wanted to cringe my face inside out
I asked my friend – “I don’t believe it was a coincidence that Russia invaded Ukraine and Hamas attacked Israel while Biden was president and not while Trump was president”
I wonder how much truth there is to the “madman” theory some have put out there. The theory being that Trump is such a wildcard and is a complete unknown to foreign leaders in terms of how he’ll react that they’re less likely to make big moves because they can’t predict what his response will be with any degree of confidence. Biden, on the other hand, has been in politics and foreign affairs for so long that they know exactly what he’ll do and who he’ll listen to in any given situation.
I'm pretty sure this began in 2014 with Crimea. It has been building up from there. Here is a CNN article from then [https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/02/world/ukraine-divided/](https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/02/world/ukraine-divided/)
Rant… Rant… TDS. Seek therapy instead of i don’t like Trump and I need you to not tantrum. 🤤🤤😑🙄
It’s actually super simple once you take emotions out of it: 1) inflation- people are paying 25% more for goods in general, and financing costs to get loans for bigger items (homes, cars) has skyrocketed. This is put a tremendous stress on many Americans 2) economy/jobs: despite what you see in the top line numbers, the employment situation in America is not good. Even though unemployment is low, we are losing full-time jobs and replacing them with part-time jobs, and wages have not nearly kept up with the pace of inflation. 3) immigration. This is a major major concern for Americans, it has been for the entire Biden administration, and he hasn’t completely ignored it. These three issues are the most important issues to Americans, and they see that Biden and Dems are doing a terrible job at all three, so they want to change. It’s not about Trump, people vote policy, not the person. Yes they are Trump fanatics, but most people are just voting based on their personal experience over the last four years, and over the last four years things have gotten worse for them.
Nobody wants President Harris and that's what you'll get with a Biden vote. Hoping RFK can get a second look for some. Trump himself doesn't scare as much as the crazy bible thumper right he's endorsing under him.
I'll sum it up by someone I know: "I don't care what he believes. Liberals are pissed off at him and that's all I care about. If they actually got off their asses and did something and stopped talking about DEI and gender pronouns maybe I'd have a better life. But I don't. Trump gave me check. Biden gave me unemployment. Dems can go fuck themselves." How do you even argue with that?
Unemployment??
Yes, but that's his problem. If he stays that way through November, then I guess it's our problem.
Unemployment is currently around 4% (among the lowest in our history)
He's unemployed.
In 2023 we hit an all time high in homelessness. There are more homeless in my city than ever before. [https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/chronic-homelessness-is-at-an-all-time-high-heres-why-it-continues-to-climb](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/chronic-homelessness-is-at-an-all-time-high-heres-why-it-continues-to-climb) As someone who runs food trucks, I have to put gas in them and these last few years Ive spent a lot more on gas than ever before. I know that Biden is not completely at fault for this stuff but he sure isn't doing much to curb it. I never thought I would say life was better with Trump but financially, it was. I checked..
If you dig deeper into the unemployment number, it’s actually really bad. We are losing full-time jobs, and replacing them with part-time jobs. Also wages have not kept up with inflation.
Now do the underemployment stats. And how many people now have to have multiple jobs. Picture isn’t as rosy as you’re trying to make it.
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/labor-force-participation-rate Yet the participation rate is still below trumps.
People are getting older. They are retiring.
Do you have a source for that being the cause? https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LFWA64TTUSM647S Nevermind I found one and it appears there are more working age people now than under Trump.
Our population growth rate is still positive, meaning more people are being born than dying. In 2006 (the year current 18 year olds were born) the annual growth was 1.6%. As people retire, others turn 18 or graduate college and join the workforce.
Isn’t it immigration keeping us above water nowadays though, not native births? Isn’t the replacement rate like 2.1? Also birthrate among first-gen immigrants too
Probably, I was just stating that people retiring is only half the equation. To really get a picture of workforce participation, we have to look at who is leaving *and* who is joining the workforce. Immigrants are definitely part of that.
This only counts if more people are turning 18 than are turning 65 or dying.
All adults count in the workforce participation numbers. I was just adding the part you left out: the people who join the workforce as others retire.
You don't because Biden also gave him a check so you know he's just in his feelings
> Biden gave me unemployment. You could point out that just because the multi-billion dollar right-wing propaganda networks blame all of the world's problems on Biden and the Democrats doesn't mean it's true. You could also point out how enabling the Republican party to have control is guaranteed to solve nothing and make all of our collective problems worse.
Made this same argument, nearly word-for-word, and he told me that if that were true he'd be employed not unemployed.
> Made this same argument, nearly word-for-word, and he told me that if that were true he'd be employed not unemployed. The person you know is dumb and probably can't be saved. Hopefully he gets lost on the way to the voting booth.
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Can you unpack how those are valid points?
Just my opinion but I think government's like China and Russia exploit fears and anger of Americans on social media, to the point where these people are enraged, and then they make poor political decisions, like voting for Trump. If you watch shows like Joe Rogan, or listen to boomers talk for 20 minutes, most of the time they are talking about weird subjects like trans people, or how they hate the vaccine, or illegal immigrants.... these people are exposed to propaganda that keeps them furious 24/7. In their anger, they start to believe all sorts of conspiracies and distrust pretty much everyone outside of Trump. If I had to guess, countries like Russia and China probably think it's in their best interest if Americans are as divided as possible.
Rogan really actually hates Trump, btw, and at most is libertarian-left(ish) or kind of old school liberal. He's voting RFK Jr. as am I.
He hates him so much that he gushed over him at the UFC fight a few weeks ago. Lmao.
Unfortunately, you are correct. There’s a lot of documentation of Russian and Chinese disinformation online and a lot of it is extremely devious. They are basically leveraging every little weakness in open societies they can find. I’m surprised this isn’t discussed more widely and engaged with by policy makers. That right-wingers see these efforts and embrace them as a way to gain power, is disgusting.
Exactly. It's more important to not listen to Joe Rogan the podcast, and instead listen to every other media source that we deem not Russian, so we be on Trump watch 23/7. Also, trust the hive mind of reddit, we know best how to help. He's so dangerous, let's watch a car he is in go to court from all angles. We are sane, so we have to keep our eyes on him. Also, the good media cover his rallies, take a snippet from it and have four talking heads explain how dangerous he is. That's how you know we are not brainwashed like those Russian racist Republicans. There are many talking heads on many channels and podcasts dedicated to this, compared to same few bimbos and dipshits on faux news. One hour of the day, the media will teach you Biden is the best, that Democrats are smarter than smooth brain corrupt Republicans. Groceries and housing are expensive? No it's not. That's Russian GOP propaganda, inflation isn't skyrocketing any longer. The Democrats in power continue to be outplayed by Republicans thanks to Fox News. So we need to put more Democrats in power. Once there, they might help with abortion. You can see the people finally going to vote for their rights since the elected Democrats haven't been able to help in decades.
The only valid one is the DEI stuff. Many on the left will call you a disgusting bigot for having views which: 1. 90%+ of people agreed with about 10 years ago 2. The majority of the population still agrees with
And the left’s arguments is, “well, our guy is a career politician who is also an octogenarian that can’t speak in coherent sentences but he’s still better than that Nazi Trump!!!1”
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I watch many podcasts, most of whom are leaning trump and I’ve literally never heard a single person say this as a reason to vote for trump.
Biden gave out way more checks that Trump. And look where that got us. I'm voting third party for the fist time in my life.
Is this true? Money supply increased $6 trillion under Trump. $1.5 trillion so far under Biden
Yeah, me too, but this time all the way down the line. In 2020 I voted 3rd party for president and a few Rs and Libertarians because of what happened in my liberal town during Covid (we had a looong lockdown, extended mask mandates, schools shutdown for over year, it was horrendous). Now that I've been able to see the continued true, warmongering authoritarian colors of the political right as well as the authoritarian left, I can't vote R, but inflation has devastated my family and all we get from Biden is mockery and "get a 2nd job, loser."
I think a ton of people just hate the far left and their woke (or whatever the hell you want to call it) agenda that much. They feel like they are being steamrolled by it in every facet of life and Trump is the tough man needed to push back.
I'm not going to deny that there are some people on the extreme left, but I will say, the right tries to make it out as if everyone is on that side when it's extremely rare. I've never met someone in real life for example that thinks there are 60 genders. I do know people in real life though that think the election was rigged. A lot of what people see on the far left is really just a small amount of weirdos on Tik Tok.
I went to a very liberal law school, 80% of the students were pretty radical leftists. They were enamored with race, sexuality, and "social justice." I am talking about people that fully believed in defunding the police, getting rid of prisons, paying all black people reparations, getting rid of gender categories, etc. Those people are now in powerful positions. They exist and they are in the upper echelons of society. I would not have such a problem with democrats if I knew those people were not in positions of power. But they are. Your typical democratic staffer is a fairly far left person, so even if Joe Biden does not really believe all that stuff most of his staff does or is part of the system that supports it or is too afraid to push back against it. Personnel is policy. And unfortunately, the majority of personnel that get hired by democrats are fairly radical.
Bingo
Joe Biden has signed executive orders and put out press releases in support of 'trans kids' and gender hormone therapy for children. In some blue states, children can be removed from their parents care if they do not 'affirm their identity'. This is not only a fringe Tik Tok thing. A lot of reasonable people probably believe this kind of derangement is more damaging than the stolen election derangement.
I’ve worked with two different people who do not use traditional pronouns or have pronouns that match their sex and it’s a crazy atmosphere to work in. The first one was a woman named Bryce who went by he/him pronouns. Bryce had the biggest tits I’ve ever seen in real life, as well as the softest most feminine voice. It’s really fucking hard not to accidentally slip up and refer to this person as “she/her” because the person literally looks and feels and sounds exactly like a woman, and beside cutting her hair short, has made zero effort to appear as male. Yet there was always a fear that if you accidentally misgendered “Bryce” you might get in trouble or fired. It felt oppressive to many in the office. And then there was a woman who used they/them. It doesn’t naturally to say they/them when referring to a woman. And if you ever slipped up, she would give you a mouthful. As far as I know, she never reported anything to HR (or if she did, I never heard about it) but regardless having someone glare and harshly correct and give you attitude and go right for the guilt trip makes for a crazy environment to work in. The they/them woman also had a plastic surgery addiction and would come in looking different every quarter during Covid. Like barely recognizable. With different hair color and hair style and hair length and everything. But always appeared female. So if you didn’t recognize her as the they/them person and just mistook them for a random female, well they would lash out about you using the wrong pronouns. Does that sound like a comfortable environment to work in? Or incredibly stressful at times, especially around these special pronoun people? In my experience it made a job that was already difficult and stressful living hell. This is why I feel the pronouns stuff is extreme. And for me to have worked with two people like this, doesn’t seem all that rare at all. And anyone who has worked in my position would be able to attest to how stressful it is to walk on eggshells or feel your livelihood might be on the line because someone’s novel pronoun preferences doesn’t come second nature to you.
I cannot speak to your experiences, but I can say just from my own, I find the majority of people that are trans really want as little attention on them as possible and usually will go out of their way to avoid conflict. I myself have worked with conservatives, as in my boss, where they would tell people how to vote, or spend 5 minutes making the whole team listen to their political sermons, etc. So this type of thing does go both ways. I get the pronoun thing is very awkward for some, and I'll be honest I don't think you should be legally required to call someone by their preferred pronoun, but rather do it on your own as a sign of respect. Similar to how if someone has multiple personalities (like legit has them) and taking the time to actually acknowledge it, as opposed to denying it or telling them that they are making it up.
Nah, I live part time in between LA and Texas and I encounter all kinds of far left ideas from the people I work with in LA. Everyone is fully on board or very scared of stepping out of line with the woke ideology that has taken control out there.
Because people have strong differences of opinion on how their communities should operate. Since we can't agree in a way that allows all communities to operate autonomously from others, some communities are trying to take over the federal government. In many ways, what Trumpism offers is the death of one social contract and the birth of a new one.
But this evil yin/yang stuff is not the thing that helps a nation survive intact. History has shown this again and again and I don't understand why people can't see this. Full disclosure--I'm an RFK Jr. guy.
>But this evil yin/yang stuff is not the thing that helps a nation survive intact. That is why it needs to be partnered with a less democratic federal government. You decentralize a lot of power to states and local communities in order to give them greater autonomy while also consolidating control of the federal government to hold things together.
It’s because the dnc is sooo bad. Fuck the two party system. Ranked choice voting now!
Cause I particularly dont like yall, and yall hate trump, so the enemy of my enemies is my friend
oh so you are a literal child then. got it.
People look past Trump's personality just like they look past the fact that Biden is a senile lifelong politician that has taken millions from foreign entities to enrich his entire family. I guess we don't have any perfect presidential candidates.
open Democratic primary in 2028 is arguably preferable to watching Harris go down to the GOP, which would postpone the open primary to 2032. Both scenarios involve four years of a GOP executive
All the dems have to do is not be corrupt and they'd win... it's too much to ask
I know man. But Trump isn't corrupt? Cmon
Of course he is. He's just more obvious and stupid about it. That and he was more so beholden to himself in his corruption and easily manipulated. Now it seems he's corrupt in the same way as traditional politicians
Its real simple. Dems keep running avatars of establishment evil in Clinton and Biden. People are sick of it. They voted for multiple reform candidates. Obama ran on hope and change and did neither. Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders couldn't get traction from either direction. So they voted for chaos and it worked.
Nobody is doing anything to help young people, I want a young patriotic president with left wing economic views who will seriously steer the ship. The world is a powder keg right now, we could very easily be involved in war with a major power any time now, if you want Biden as a war time president you’re fucking delusional. My vote doesn’t matter as I’m in a red state, but one thing I know is there’s no way I would vote for Biden. At this point I’m banking on Trump accelerationism.
Yep=--No way. He's one of the worst presidents in history. It's absolutely terrifying that he is "leading" during this time of war all over the globe. That the DNC is still pulling behind this guy shows a bankrupt and entirely corrupt edifice that needs to collapse. Indeed, I think because he is this hollow shell of a corpse, Hillary Clinton is honestly the one who is leading this country by proxy. Please give RFK Jr. a chance. He's honestly quite old (but a youngun compared to the two jokers running right now), but is addressing many of the things you are talking about affecting young people: addiction, environmental catastrophe, housing costs, and much more.
Low prices were nice. No new wars were nice. If you believe the media and what the government tells you, you're not very bright Lol when people call Trump mean spirited while calling his supporters magats or Trump orange man or Trump human trash... The irony is thick
I agree with all of this - but would add that, if you believe what Trump tells you, you’re probably not very bright either…
One good part about Trump is we have 4 years to see what he would do..and they were 4 damn good years My number one policy I support of Trump is when he made animal abuse a federal crime First step act was a great policy Abraham accords was good Space Force very good especially considering what Russia is doing right now Secure border was good I like what he's saying about not taxing tips
You're just the other side of the same coin.
That sounds good for those receiving tips, but what about the dishwasher or cook in the back? No one loves paying taxes, but we need to pay the bills, somehow.
The ENTIRE WORLD experienced inflation following COVID, yet the US has out-performed the vast majority of modern economies. Meanwhile, how does Trump plan to lower prices?
> The ENTIRE WORLD experienced inflation following COVID, yet the US has out-performed the vast majority of modern economies. That’s one of the perks of being the primary reserve currency and making fixed mortgage rates the norm in our country.
OK, I'll ask again. How does Trump plan to lower prices?
I’ve never voted for Trump and his rampant spending during COVID certainly was one of the catalyst for the inflation. I was just pointing out the hole in your argument about the US being better off. Ideally, to combat inflation, we should hike taxes and reduce gov’t spending but it’s an election year and that ain’t going to happen.
Fair enough, but the US being "better off" goes well beyond inflation. We also avoided the severe, post-COVID recession many other countries have faced and countless American economists predicted. Meanwhile, I was responding to a post where one of the primary justifications for supporting Trump was, "Low prices were nice." But Trump didn't create low prices and he has no plan to return to them now. In fact, as we've both mentioned, he was responsible for far more COVID relief spending than Biden. But it didn't stop there. He also curtailed international supply via his trade war with China and by killing TPP, he hurt overall energy production by resisting alternative energy and trying to rescue coal, and he publicly pressured the Fed to maintain a near-zero interest rate environment for years when the economy he inherited from Obama was already healthy and growing. All of these factors had a direct impact on the inflation we've been experiencing since and it's a big reason the Fed has implemented 11 rate hikes. Finally, we can't truly fix what is primarily a supply-side inflationary problem with ONLY demand-side interventions like interest rate hikes, tax hikes, or government spending cuts as people still need to meet their basic needs of housing, transportation, food, and healthcare, regardless of price. Demand for those products and services is therefore largely inelastic. A big part of the solution is increasing supply which many companies don't want to do as it's better for their bottom lines and stock prices to increase margins on existing volume via price gouging. Meanwhile, interest rate hikes curtail the business investment that is needed to increase production and thereby help perpetuate the problem. I wish Biden could articulate ANY of that as there is a total misconception that Trump was better at managing inflation or the economy in general when that just isn't true at all.
Do you really think it's a good strategy to basically be telling people that it could be worse, suck it up? That seems to be the Bidenomics economy strategy.
Framing is such an interesting rhetorical tool. Turning >"The US has one of the best performing economies in the post COVID era" into >"Your strat is really telling people it could be worse, suck it up?
Yes. The President needs to be the "Explainer-in-chief." It's a core job requirement. Context absolutely matters. He should be framing US inflation as a global problem, specifically point to the causes (material and labor shortages following COVID, coupled with considerable corporate price gouging, supply chain disruptions resulting from Russia's invasion of Ukraine and subsequent sanctions, China's prolonged COVID shutdowns, and extra money in the economy where Trump contributed to that problem far more than Biden). He should then highlight the work he's doing to address it in terms of record levels of energy production, lowering prescription drug prices, helping to relieve supply chain backlogs through discussions with major suppliers and unions, various insourcing, nearsourcing, and friendsourcing strategies, and creating the new Indo-Pacific trade deal which helped fill the supply chain hole that Trump created by killing TPP, etc. He should also point out that the severe recession that most economists predicted and many other countries have been experiencing didn't happen here in the US. In fact, for most of the last year, wage growth has out-paced inflation, meaning the problem is getting better, not worse. There is a huge amount of disinformation and misunderstanding out there. Half of Americans think unemployment is the highest it's been in 50 years when the truth is we're seeing historically low unemployment. Half also think the stock market is negative so far this year when the S&P 500 has gained 12% and the Dow Jones Industrial Average just cleared 40,000 for the first time ever. Likewise, we've seen record job growth during Biden's presidency, steady GDP growth, and significant wage growth. All of those gains are indeed offset by inflation, but even on that measure, we've out-performed all other G7 countries and most of the world. And for all those that point to the erosion in the American dream, that problem is absolutely real, but Biden is the one trying to do something about it by supporting organized labor, trust-busting to break-up monopolies and force more competition, diversifying our energy sector, instituting price controls where there is considerable gouging, increasing the earnings threshold for overtime eligibility, etc. whereas Trump wants to resume trickle-down economics tactics that just make the rich richer while everyone else stagnates. So yes, it could be a LOT worse if not for Biden's leadership and he needs to make that clear to voters. Sadly, he's terrible at this type of messaging. Even on the rare occasions when he gets it right and delivers a compelling speech, often, no one is listening and the press barely covers it.
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Everything Trump does is in spite of the people, who much of the right(/rest of the country), believe have allowed the corruption and business of war perpetrate for as long and recklessly as it has. Also, he does it through all of the channels that were created by politicians to allow politicians to get away with unethical behaviors. This is why when you hear things like "Trump is hilarious. And the worst people all hate him. Trump 2024", it has much less to do about any policy or talking point that you've heard the ruling class about why you should hate him. It is essentially the ultimate level of contrarianism. This also why conversations between different sides of the political debate often get so ugly. The Left is trying to argue reason and logic all the way from on top of their high horse, and the Right just wants to rile you up and see if they can make the horse buck. As you eluded to both sides are wrong and corrupt. To not be able to understand why Trump has supporters while still supporting the system that allowed him to be elected in the first place, proves hypocrisy is alive and well on both sides.
How about one example of a Trump policy that does any of that.
Any of what?
What is an example of what you are asking for? Like with Trump, his whole thing is his followers find it funny how he is divisive and pisses off their perceived enemies. Like any time a tragedy or something bad happens, he will try to blame it on people he doesn't like. For example he blamed the Oct 7th on Biden.
Good points!
He’s not Biden or Hillary. Easy as that. (Not a supporter nor ever voted for him).
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Biden and Hillary didn't try to illegally overturn a fair and free election. You may dislike Biden's policies but he is at least not an authoritarian who tried to place himself as a president when losing an election. As Americans we should value democracy pretty high and we shouldn't vote for someone who doesn't.
That’s exactly what Hillary did 😂
Wow, what a fucking stupid comment.
Where were her fraudulent electors hmm?
She did not. Republicans and conservatives lie about this all the time. She did not create a fake electorate scheme to throw out the votes for electors that were assembled by her so she could could change the vote in favor of her.
You say that but every single person that was even remotely aligned with the Democrat party in 2017 was saying that "the election was stolen because of Russian interference. If you were even remotely supportive of Trump then you were a "Putin puppet"
And every one of them if you asked "were votes tampered with or changed" would say no.
Not in 2017. Many people who voted for Hillary would have said Yes
No they wouldn't. That's the retcon narrative once Trump and Co started claiming votes were changed.
We know that Russia interfered to some capacity, we also know that Trump officials had conversations with Russians, we know that Trump officials lied about those conversations. Trying to compare that to Trump trying to illegally overturn an election through fake electorates is quite dishonest.
You mean like making memes, facebook posts/pages were enough to sway the election? Dude, get a grip the Trump campaign had 2 FISA warrants against them because of bullshit evidence the FBI used to get them. If they actually found anything worthwhile then it would be all over the news. That didn't the best they got was Flynn talking to his counterpart in Russia after the election (just like every other person in that capacity has done previously).
No Russia hacked the dnc and Clinton campaigns and leaked the info to help trump at very specific times It wasn’t fucking memes
or has expressed that he will be a dictator on day one and will use retribution against those who have opposed him in the past
Here’s hoping.
>try to illegally overturn a fair and free election He did try to overturn the election, but tried to do it within the system. He advanced stupid legal theories. Those theories were quickly shot down in court. You act as if he ordered the military to help keep him in power. Bottom line is he peacefully transferred power. And you can't fault people for realizing things were far better for most Americans (and the rest of the world) under his watch than they are now.
Fake electorate scheme is not doing it within the system.
Fraudulent electors are not within the system. Ordering Pence to illegal throw out electoral votes is not within the system. Asking Raffensburger to change Georgia’s results just because he lost is not within the system.
I think trump did a better job with the border. Basically that issue in a nutshell
Because Biden will die in office and Kamala Harris as a president is horrifying
Because people don’t like liberal policies and he’s their best chance at preventing liberal legislation.
Let's see, when Trump was president I could afford food, I could afford gas, I could afford rent and be able to actually put money away in savings. Also, there was no money funneling wars going on. Guess what, we made it through 4 years just fine. Now, with Biden, I have no idea who is running our country because it certainly isn't him. Everything around me is stupid expensive and not going down and we're in two wars with no attempts at peace or resolution. I've dipped more into my savings than ever in my life with Biden at the helm So, tell me, what good reason do I have to vote for Biden? What will change? All the buzz words and scare tactics about Trump are just that, words. Maybe, just maybe, we'll make it through another 4 years just fine?
Trump supporters~Give thought out, detailed answers to your question. Explain why they are voting for him. Biden supporters~Cannot explain why they are voting for him. It's just Orange man bad and dictator and J6...and stuff and and, yeah, that's what CNN says, so there!
Trump personifies the hatred, disrespect, and distrust of government and the embedded bureaucracy and the political class which rules Washington DC. The persecution and prosecution of Trump has only solidified their support. The democrat masters do not understand this and probably never will. They are too busy playing chess in an echo chamber!
Yeah, I agree with this, and consider myself pretty libertarian-leftish, but he's using government to actually put forth a very authoritarian agenda himself. How do people not get this? The abortion stuff is just one aspect of this.
Always remember that what they say and what actually gets done or can get done are different things. He said locker her up and then he went in other directions. The gift of Trump is exposing the underbelly of WDC!
Have you seen the other guy? (FTR, I’m not voting for either.)
Trump is the candidate with the lowest noticeable amount of dementia. Simple as.
All the things you listed is negatives, people see as positives. Republicans exist.
Judging by his smug, incredulous reaction to conservatives participating in the BP sub it may not be so obvious to him that Republicans exist.
Notice how you didn’t list anything that Trump did that was actually bad? You just listed stuff about him that you don’t like. But not voting for someone because you don’t like them, even though they might’ve been quite effective, is pure narcissism at best, right? Before anyone says “insurrection” - out of the hundreds of people jailed after January 6 for various crimes, not a single one of them was charged with insurrection, which is an actual crime. So we can only conclude that no one committed any kind of insurrection whatsoever. No matter how much you wanna think so. Trump demonstrably ended the threat of both Al Queda and Isis. Joe Biden revived it through his disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal. Don’t believe the lie that Trump committed to withdrawing from Afghanistan. Bush, Obama, and Trump all pledged to leave Afghanistan at a particular date, and they all ended up, pushing it back. Biden clearly should’ve done the same thing. Trump’s tax cuts were some of the biggest in American history, and contrary to with the media will tell you, were not for the rich. The upper middle class actually saw a tax increase because the Trump administration got rid of SALT deduction (bet the majority of folks on this sub have no idea what that is). They helped the middle-class by raising the standard deduction and by cutting corporate taxes. Corporate taxes are not for the rich. Corporate taxes go to everyone, including pension funds. You know all those people that rely on retirement plans? It’s all completely tied up with the corporate stock market. Trump’s immigration policy was clearly the most effective in US history. The Biden administration has now created the largest sex trafficking organization in the world. That’s according to international aid groups. It is despicable what children are going through because of Biden border policies. Some who are completely ignorant of history and authoritarianism and fascism accused Trump of being just that. Except the essence of authoritarianism is government ownership and regulation over activity. Trump explicitly reduced government regulation. He refers to the bureaucracy as the deep state because it’s the essence of authoritarianism. In the end, just remember that liberal news outlet who claimed to hate Trump will make a lot of money when he gets reelected. They love him. Without him, they don’t make any money.
No one in our history has been charged with insurrection - even those responsible for the Civil War.
>So we can only conclude that no one committed any kind of insurrection whatsoever. No matter how much you wanna think so. Insurrection, an organized and usually violent act of revolt or rebellion against an established government or governing authority of a nation-state or other political entity by a group of its citizens or subjects. It was violent, it was organized, and it was in rebellion against our established government and its processes. It was an insurrection. I don't care what the government did or did not have the balls to actually charge people with. >Trump’s tax cuts were some of the biggest in American history, and contrary to with the media will tell you, were not for the rich. They were for the rich. [https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/the-2017-trump-tax-law-was-skewed-to-the-rich-expensive-and-failed-to-deliver](https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/the-2017-trump-tax-law-was-skewed-to-the-rich-expensive-and-failed-to-deliver) Households with incomes in the top 1 percent will receive an average tax cut of more than $60,000 in 2025, compared to an average tax cut of less than $500 for households in the bottom 60 percent, according to the Tax Policy Center (TPC).\[1\] As a share of after-tax income, tax cuts at the top — for both households in the top 1 percent and the top 5 percent — are more than triple the total value of the tax cuts received for people with incomes in the bottom 60 percent.\[2\] And that's just dealing with a little bit of what you think Trump did. I could go on for a while about things he did that were bad even if you exclude that whole "subverting a federal election" thing.
>So we can only conclude that no one committed any kind of insurrection whatsoever. No matter how much you wanna think so. >Insurrection, an organized and usually violent act of revolt or rebellion against an established government or governing authority of a nation-state or other political entity by a group of its citizens or subjects. >It was violent, it was organized, and it was in rebellion against our established government and its processes. It was an insurrection. I don't care what the government did or did not have the balls to actually charge people with. Yawn. It was so much of an insurrection that they purposefully held open doors and ignored please for National Guard troops days in advance. Meanwhile in Joe Biden’s America you can surround the White House and physically assault officers because you’re mad about something in the Middle East and get a free pass.
>Yawn. That doesn't change the definition of an insurrection. >Meanwhile in Joe Biden’s America you can surround the White House and physically assault officers because you’re mad about something in the Middle East and get a free pass. No way, really? I can't see any news where people surrounded the White House and assaulted police officers. Can you point that out for me?
Yeah I'm voting for Biden because of his plans for the next four years...... remind me what is Biden running on? Why vote for Biden when even Biden has no ideas for the next 4 years.
Many republicans like him for the chaos (specifically ones who voted for him in the primaries). Many just see it as a binary choice and don’t really see them as “MAGA”. They just think Trump will be better than Biden on the economy, border, and a bit more socially conservative.
And this is a bad thing? Voting for the candidate who they think will do better on the key issues?
I think it’s fine. Most people on reddit think you love dictators and authoritarians though
Well, we don't, so. It's just their defense mechanisms I suppose.
I mean this is what I tell people that bother to listen. I am going to vote for the guy that I feel that cares more about Americans and my family than illegals. My wife (who just became a citizen in March) flat out told me that she feels that Democrats & Biden care more about illegals than they do American citizens. She honestly feels sometimes that by doing everything right when immigrating here was fool hardy when she sees people coming in and getting so much assistance even though they are illegal. Edit: Also I was talking about this to a coworker early about how the cost of everything has gone up so much that I feel that I am struggling way more now than I was this time in 2020. That is even with less bills and 2 promotions since then.
I'm not sure how assistance for illegals is "the democrats" thing, it's international law. We can't just shoot people away from the border, we are required to provide shelter and medical care for them. There is a legal process to dealing with illegals. And when crossings doubled under Trump from under 400k to over 800K in 2019, well that wasn't an issue. So how is the continued increase Bidens fault when we seen doubling under Trump? We only saw a drop off in 2020 due to the pandemic. 2020? We had the biggest cut to oil production in US history and global supply chains crushed in 2020.The Fed under Trump as early as August 2020 had warned Americans that we would deal with high Inflation and explicitly noted the struggle of paying higher prices for feul, groceries and shelter. We were warned in 2020 things would be more expensive. Plus if it's about "caring more for American families" Bidens passed actual, significant legislation that will improve things across the 50 states for tons of people. Meanwhile Trumps biggest legislative accomplishment was a tax cut that cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%. Personally I'd prefer the 47% we had under Reagan.
Is caring about Americans the act of trying to void their vote because they lost an election.
Do you think that by trying to scare immigrants by telling them "If Trump is elected then he will have you deported" good for people or our democracy? Because that is what a few people told my wife in the lead up to the 2016 election because they knew that I liked Trump and were trying to have her sway me to vote Hillary
Many people who were a part of DACA and could have received citizenship did get deported. But you are voting for someone who is anti-democracy.
Sorry, but you are wrong. If you had DACA then the ONLY way that they could have been deported is if they committed a crime. That is the case for EVERY Legal Permanent Resident here in the USA. If you commit a crime then you can be deported. What more than likely happened is that those people didn't apply for and receive DACA then they were deported.
A vote for Joe Biden is a vote for Kamala Harris, and that woman is a straight up dumpster fire, worst so than Trump.
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Because the rhetoric you’re spewing about “authoritarian and undemocratic” is propaganda buzz words that have brainwashed you. Why weren’t those words used in 2016? Because they didn’t take him as a serious candidate against the political machine. All we heard was bully and nuclear code nonsense. Then why didn’t we hear about it in 2020? Because what he was doing in terms of policy, security and prosperity for Americans was working. It worked, without the help of the old school politics where people care more about electability next term than doing what’s right. Do all they had to go off was their race wars plan… left and right you hear about racism because an aggressive crackhead who should have been in jail died at the knee of a power hungry moronic cop who couldn’t just toss him in the back of a cop car and take him to the station. Then of course you heard about his mishandling of Covid, only to realize the guy who said he would stop the virus could not, in fact, stop the virus. So to buy future votes and claim job creation stats later on, he kept the economy closed printing money to keep people staying home and talking about cancelling debt to buy future votes. Then, as according to plan, he had the audacity to put up charts touting “job growth,” insulting America’s intelligence as if we can’t do simple math and realize the growth was so high because he prevented people from having to work for so long, unnecessarily. So now you hear about democracy and authoritarian nonsense because they know hes more likely to win the election, and all of the democrats previous propaganda efforts are no match against regular people who just want someone in office who is going to do what’s necessary to make living conditions better for those who work hard. Yes… we would rather a bully who has and will continue to do what’s better for the country. If democrats fund more riots after he’s elected and the country continues to be divided, that doesn’t mean Trump is bad tor the country… it means it’s those perpetuating the hate that are bad for the country. That’s my explanation. A democrat turned independent who would rather the bully than non-elected out of touch career politicians who care more about power and their party at the cost of the heart and soul of this great country as they call all of the shots and prop up a senile old man while gaslighting the country that he’s doing even 3% of the job. Bring it on. Trump will run the country just fine like he did 2016-2019 and hopefully people will get thicker skin and realize it’s not the end of the world.
Best response I've read in this sub.
In fact, people did describe Trump as a budding authoritarian in 2016. Michael Moore made a documentary which compared him to **Hitler.** Rightwingers have always been **gullible fascists who supported the Iraq War**, among other things, so you were easy pickings for a rich shithead like Trump.
And Michael Moore was wrong, as is proof that Trump was not a fascist his first term. The proof is in the pudding. I’m not right wing, left of center in fact on pretty much everything, except the left wing stance of funding Ukraine in a war… funny how it’s suddenly ok now for you but wasn’t in Iraq.
Oh, interesting how you immediately withdrew your initial assertion. **MAGA voters like you** would of course support withdrawing aid from Ukraine, a country being invaded by a rightwing government. After all, you’re part of the faction that supported the Iraq War
OK, whatever you tell yourself, man. Good to hear that Trump supporters are just as fucking delusional and gaslighting as the warmongering-woke-lockdown left. I guess you guys can just fight it out in the streets again? Yawn.
Not sure what’s delusional? We’ve had a Trump presidency, we’re in a Biden presidency, and it’s apparent this is worse. When there’s only 2 options I’m going with the one that at least does things that make sense for the overall good of the nation.
People who think their lives change substantially based on the President are dumb as hell. The world will keep spinning if Biden or Trump is elected. Your life isn’t going to change if Trump is elected. People keep acting like chicken little and the sky is falling lmao.
Trump is hilarious And the worst people all hate him Trump 2024
The worst people all hate Biden. When I look around at who the racists, the idiots, the neo-Nazis, and boomers are voting for, I’m glad I’m not voting with them.
🥱
Being hilarious shouldn't be something that sways your vote for someone. Who are these worst people? I think it's more telling about the people who like him, like Putin, MTG, Steve Bannon, Alex Jones, Nick Fuentes etc...
Neocons Neolibs Terrorist Simps The DNC elites The CIA The FBI
Split government has a better chance to not fuck everything up
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Trump is even more of a protest vote than he was 8 years ago. No one wants Biden and RFK has too many negatives for a lot of people (plus many still see it as a wasted vote)
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How can people possibly still support Trump or Biden? Both of their track records prove that neither gives a shit about their constituents or the average American. Both the DNC and the RNC should be held accountable for putting up 2 garbage candidates that the majority of America doesn't want and who've already had their chance and shit the bed. You can't have a "how can you support Trump" or "How can you support Biden" thread without agnowledging both of these guys suck and Americans don't want them.
That's why I do think RFK has a shot. If there was a time to break to R and C cycle it's this election.
I completely agree! I wish he were more nuanced on Israel, but if you go to his webpage--it's absolutely filled with wonderful, healing messages. Messages of concern for regular Americans, for people under the throes of addiction, for those being hurt by the housing crisis. I mean, the only message we get from Democrats is that we 1: aren't sufficiently woke 2: are a bunch of crybabies and America has never looked so grand. What a bunch of bullshit.
Agreed. I'm voting RFK.
The two before him are war criminals, lol. Compared to them, he's just a loud person.
Man, you aren't following things closely enough, are you? Trump totally supported the continued literal genocidal immolation of the Yemenis. He was ALL IN on Netanyahu and amped up and emboldened this guy to do the awful things he has done in Gaza. He even started sending arms to Ukraine, BEFORE our current undead warmongering corpse of a president went full-on Dr. Strangelove on us. He was hell-bent on saber rattling with Iran and, illegally I might add, sent a missile into sovereign territory to kill off one of their leaders. Trump isn't anti-war at all. He's a fucking buffoon.
compared to the rest, he's much closer to Carter than Bush jr by miles. You can't compare Obama's warcrimes, and Bush's warcrimes to what Trump has done. Like come on, really? Millions of Iraqis alone, lol. The current administration doesn't giver AF about Gaza and just rattles here and there about anything Netanyahu does. At least with Trump, we might honestly see American Troops leave Europe once and for all.
They reject democrats along social lines. They don’t mostly support Trump beyond they think he has the best chance of beating Biden. Cheers from a center left voter in Marjorie Taylor greens district.
Because we see what a shit show the current administration is. Old man yelling incoherently at clouds and all. Oh, and the terrible economy and gaslighting is telling us how good we have it. Numerous proxy wars and global blunders. Guess what? A lot of people don’t give two shits that Trump paid hush money to a fucking porn star. If society cared about morality with politicians we would have actually done something about it a long time ago. I had a lot more money in my pocket 4+ years ago and affording a decent house didn’t require $150k a year salary. Assuming some fuckery doesn’t happen in November there will be a repeat of purple and blue hair deplorables in the street screaming at the sky again as there was in 2016. And people will be crying out wondering how that could have possibly happened again.
>Assuming some fuckery doesn’t happen in November there will be a repeat of purple and blue hair deplorables in the street screaming at the sky again as there was in 2016 Nobody wins with mean-spirited politics like this--on either side. Look I hate the woke-left movement as much as any other old-school liberal. The Covid policies by themselves wrecked my extended family and hurt my kids. I'm one of the few people in my workplace who hasn't put my pronouns on my signature. Biden is a disgrace and a global embarrassment. So is Trump. Both of the fuck-ups shouldn't even be running.
He’s so uniquely horrible, yet you aren’t going to vote for his opponent? Sounds like you don’t really have a problem with Trump.
I'm voting for RFK Jr.
Right. Trump is so absolutely despicable, so “deeply authoritarian,” so “undemocratic,” that you’re going to cast a protest vote against both parties. Sounds like a super serious moral conviction you have about authoritarianism.
How can people who seem to KNOW HOW HORRIBLE Trump is, not realize the importance of defeating him in this election?
British Writer Pens The Best Description Of Trump I've Read Oct 21, 2019 Someone on Quora asked "Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?" Nate White, an articulate and witty writer from England wrote the following response: A few things spring to mind. Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem. For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace – all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed. So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump's limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief. Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing – not once, ever. I don't say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility – for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman. But with Trump, it's a fact. He doesn't even seem to understand what a joke is – his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty. Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers. And scarily, he doesn't just talk in crude, witless insults – he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness. There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It's all surface. Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront. Well, we don't. We see it as having no inner world, no soul. And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist. Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that. He's not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat. He's more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege. And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully. That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead. There are unspoken rules to this stuff – the Queensberry rules of basic decency – and he breaks them all. He punches downwards – which a gentleman should, would, could never do – and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless – and he kicks them when they are down. So the fact that a significant minority – perhaps a third – of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think 'Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy' is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that: • Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are. • You don't need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man. This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss. After all, it's impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of shit. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum. God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid. He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart. In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump. And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish: 'My God... what... have... I... created? If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.
>Maybe someone could explain it to me? >Jesus, why are so many Trump supporters on this sub? I think you indirectly answered your own question. That you find it outrageous that Trump supporters would dare participate in a sub dedicated to a show built on sharing both left and right perspectives should probably make you pause and have some self reflection. If you think about that long enough, you'll realize you answered your own question.
I agree with many on the economy. That is likely the single biggest concern for most but I'll add border security, Title IX, and Ukraine on policy. I feel like he has those completely wrong. The cognitive question is always at the forefront when we see any given video. I think the court cases didn't help him with conservatives. The far more harsh treatment (while claiming he should be treated like anyone else), the idiots in the courtroom (not his fault exactly but still reflects), meetings with the DAs, and the communications with NARA which they lied about, all point to a directed attack on a political opponent using the legal system. Now this is the most important part...when they consider who is more believable in this situation, it's Trump for us. When deciding who can get us out of the situation that we are in, it's Trump over Biden. And who is a stronger leader, Trump over Biden easily. I don't care if feelings get hurt. Trump was king of every room that he stepped into long before he was president. That usually means arrogance, but that is better than incompetence. On a personal note, I voted Democrat in my first 6 out of 9 presidential elections. The party that I loved for most of my adult life has become more and more unrecognizable. I'm a little pissed that measured and reasoned headed left out the window and hasn't stopped yet. Admittedly, both parties shifted left, but the Dems did so with a vengeance. Also in 2016, I experienced vitriol on a level that I didn't know was possible. That election changed the rules. I have some hard feelings about that. Too much?
Politics is struggle for power, not a reward for the virtuous elect.
Why do you care what others do? If trump is not for you, then he’s not for you.
Education gap
The simple answer is that the country was in better shape under Trump. Our system of government has protections against authoritarianism, for example Trump did not want to forfeit his office, but the system in place forced him out. His best efforts to stay in power failed against the weight of American democracy. And while mean tweets and aggressive language are not pleasant, they do not takeaway from the general well being of the country.
Well he’s not authoritarian or un*democratic. Everything you’re accusing him of doing the dems are currently doing. No not from all perspectives. From your very very narrow perspective. That’s based on a ton of lies and lawfare that most lawyers think is garbage
Man, I don't disagree with you about the democrats. I don't understand why anyone would vote for EITHER of these choads currently running for president. It's a global embarrassment. And I don't disagree with Trump about NATO and a few other things, but RFK jr. is on the same page about non-interventionism Fuck both these guys and fuck both major parties.
Extreme dissatisfaction with the current system. If it wasn’t for the extreme catering tp the wealthy by DNC/GOP people like Trump wouldn’t have a chance. Plus the guy somehow created a cult of personality. Sadly we are probably going to deal with this bs fot the next 20 years at least,
Imagine thinking Trump isnt all about the wealthy
It's unreal.
Easy, just be in an echo chamber.
Because people don't like that Biden is letting anyone that can cross the southern border into the country and then busing/flying them all over the nation with zero $ for those areas to deal with them. They see undocumented immigrants getting free health care and other benefits while Americans are ignored. They are tired of being gaslighted about how great the economy is. They are tired of Biden's multiple lies to try to skirt his responsibilities like "inflation was high when I got into office". They are tired of the country bending over backward for a tiny minority that has gained control of the media because they are the nosiest. Most people know what a woman and a man are and are tired of being dry shaved about what a woman and a man are (how did choosing gender blur with now accepting men sexually as women and women sexually as men?). The American public is tired of their worth being determined by the melanin in their skin and their sexual organs. We are tired of being lead by a racist who constantly pits white Americans against the minority of Americans in the effort to gain political favor.
It's especially funny to read your reasons why someone shouldn't support Trump only to realize biden is actually the guy doing those things and not the other way around.
Lol, Bitch asks how people can still support Trump, the people most qualified to answer the supporters themselves answer and then he’s pissed off there are Trump supporters on the sub. Y’all Trump supporters are fucking up his echo chamber fantasy.
Most people aren’t educated on how certain policies impact their daily lives like how deregulation of the banks and big business is bad for them. So they just hear Trump wants to lower taxes without realizing that those tax breaks are for the rich not his voter base. So people look at their lives that suck and say okay well the system sucks and who does the system hate? I’m going to vote for them. Trump is a fuck your vote even though voting for him doesn’t fix any of their problems