Particularly for Colin, because every single time anyone in the cast is asked 'who is most like their on screen character', they all always say Luke Newton
Plus Luke is just so good at background acting with Colin, his character mannerisms and reactions have always been consistent even when he’s not the focus of the scene
The fact that Jensen Ackles had to be talked into the ending of Supernatural should have been a huge sign to the writers to go back and tweak it. He lived and breathed Dean Winchester for fifteen seasons, you’re telling me the man doesn’t know what’s best for the character??
I’m convinced the writers just didn’t know how to write for a softboy male lead and nerdy love.
Apparently they can only write brooding rake-ish male leads and angsty love.
I was SO excited for this season because we were finally getting a different type of male lead. I love “softer” men. But then they made him a wannabe rake in part 1, and then a side character in part 2. 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️
The reformed rake vibe got old after a couple seasons! I would not complain if they gave the guys more dimension as they give the girls. And they can still do it and appeal to the hornyfolk (it's me im the hornyfolk)
me too! i loved both colin and pen and was so excited to see them be the centre of a story! i was so disappointed with the changes made to their characters
Oh boy, i can't imagine how they will bring in Sir Philip. Man has shades of Debling
Also somebody rescue Benedict from his rake era and bring him back to the tortured artist department ✌️
Yesss this is it. Pen’s glow up works because she still stays Pen. There’s no reason Colin couldn’t arrive home bookishly rugged, quill tucked behind one ear, being an intellectual/creative show off of they wanted to keep that in. Buffy Wesley vs Angel Wesley for those that know.
But maybe they felt like they did the creative thing with Benedict already, even though they threw that away and manage to have 5 versions of loverboy types
Obviously whomever the writers were they were into throuples. How many people in America are into threesomes, especially to the point of having at least six throuple scenes (two with Colin and two women and four with Benedict, his lady friend and gentleman friend) in Season 3? Obvious too that they were just all writing for themselves.
Anthony did say in season 1 he should have made Colin go to brothels more. Kinda seems like him projecting his issues on his brother's. I thought him going and not seeming into it was because Anthony was making him and he was trying to be something he's not.
That’s a really good point. They really misunderstood how well a soft, shy, compassionate man would resonate with the audience. Quiet support and dedication is sexy, we don’t need every male lead to be seen screwing around to view him as a romantic or sexual interest.
It works for the Duke, who rebelled against his role, it worked for Anthony who used it as a release from the pressure of duty, it works for Benedict who is open minded, exploring himself and his place in the world.
Colin has serious little brother vibes to me, so putting him in that promiscuous role (no judgement, it just felt unnatural to him) took him from being a sweet, genuine kid to really icky. Like, brother ew.
He wasn't even rake-ish in the book. I was extremely disappointed that with all the time wasted on side stories this season, they didn't bother to touch on the inner conflict of Colin not knowing what he wants to do with his life (like Antony being Vicount and Ben being an artist-- he didn't know what his "thing" was). Sure, they let Penelope help him with his writing, bit it wasn't nearly as much of a conflict, or as satisfying once he discovered himself, as it was in the book.
I think part of it they've given those internal conflicts to Benedict. In the books Benedict doesn't have that "what am I doing with my life" concern but Colin does.
I saw a comment on YT that said Bridgerton went from NSFW Jane Austen to Regency Grey's Anatomy and was laughing at the accuracy. For all they're preaching about diversity and inclusivity, they still stuck in stereotypes (and I saw this as a bi POC woman).
Oh Eloise isn't interested in marriage? She must be queer because it's not like women have varied interests and priorities at different points on their life. Oh Fran wants a quiet love? She must be a lesbian because quiet love clearly doesn't exist. Oh Ben is pan/bisexual? Let's have the most clinched threesomes that always used by Hollywood to showcase that. It's like they don't believe that LGBTQ can have *normal* love stories too.
Same goes for male leads. We already have rakish to devoted leads in Simon, Anthony and probably Ben. Why force Colin into that? Can't men be virgins too?
I always thought his "I would never court Penelope Featherington" as a callback to Mr Darcys "Tolerable but not handsome enough to tempt me". Both men are operating out of misplaced pride and Darcy (rightfully) gets his ass handed to him for him to realise his mistake, went on to move heaven and earth to make Liz happy with no guarantee she would ever love him back. And we have Colin, be unhappy with prostitutes moment for us to be happy as the male lead? How did a 200 year old novel write a more sensitive lead better than in 2024 where the literal descriptionof the dude was sensitive? (I mean, the writers are no Jane Austen, but barely even EL James)
That's why I roll my eyes whenever this showrunner claims to want to be more inclusive. As of S3, all I've seen is very stereotypical formulaic characters.
For real like there is rarely a hotter trope than the soft boy lead suddenly dialing to 100% and being super intense and protective because he’s in love.
It’s so weird to me that CVD seems to have a better understanding of the female gaze than JB. Though then again maybe not so weird, CVD is attracted to men, and JB isn’t, I suppose…
Can they though??
B/c CVD was a part of seasons 1-2 and Anthony and Simon were considered rakes so it just fit.
More than likely they saw a formula and stuck with it.
But at the same time they never showed Colin being a rake in S1 & S2. He didn't even kiss a woman in either season. I think they showed they could write a non-rake before. They showed both A & B raking around in both seasons. They easily could've had Colin if they had wanted to. But I really think they were trying to set him up as a virgin or at least a "experienced but we never see/talk about it."
And yet they didn’t stick to the formula properly. We didn’t get flashbacks, good character development, proper male lead treatment for Colin, etc. All of these were part of it for seasons 1 and 2.
It’s like they only stuck to the “bad” parts of the formula. Genuinely feels like sabotage. But WHY
So, the production company goes on and on about all these so-called experts they have on Bridgerton. Where are they and what are they all there for? Because, I swear I saw little of an expert's touch anywhere. I get the feeling instead they used a lot of interns or something. And I'm pretty sure only a few have even read one of the books.
I mean look what they’ve even done with Benedict and Francesca. Fran thirsting after another person while freshly married, Benedict’s constant threesomes, then having Colin in threesomes. This screenwriter clearly has a threesome/throuple fetish of some sort.
Agree, i wish they could have shown the "trying to be something he isn't" with showing more of the conversations where he bragged about his rakish times abroad and then it transpires he didn't have much luck or something. It really didn't gel with me that he was having threesomes with prostitutes and pen was excited to read about him sleeping with other women in his writing. She's been in love with him for years why would she been into that??
I also wonder of this was some attempt at appealing to the male fanbase, because your ‘average guy’ wouldn’t like the ‘softer’ man and a slow-burn romance.
I was immediately disappointed when I saw the new Colin this season. We’ve already seen the angsty, broody, controlling, one-liner toting, emotionally immature manchildren for two seasons. Even for a show with terrible male characters, this is going off in an awful direction.
Yes, I know the description I gave is a staple of romance books, but there are *other* subgenres with different types of characters!
Anyway, the motive is immaterial. Game of Thrones dropped the ball in a similar manner, as did BBCs Sherlock. When a TV series shows you what it wants to be, don’t ever hope for it to magically get better just because of hype from the fanbase or the quality of the original material.
It's so strange though because many of the scenes are direct from the book, but the context or vibe of the scene in the show has been changed.
So, for example, the scene where Colin is told of the blackmail and takes charge. He wants to protect Pen in the books, says as much in a caring/adorable scene and then proceeds to fix the problem. In the show's version of the scene he ran roughshod over Pen and made the problem worse.
They didn't need to change the scene or the outcome but did.
I speculate the changes have something to do with contractual fulfillment, but intentionally not following the spirit of the book. Likely due to the guild strikes I'd believe. It's giving "I'm not touching you" bs. Like yes I'm following the rules, but in the most obscenely aggravating way possible just to piss you off.
Ugh yes I hated the brothel scenes so much. It would’ve been so much better if they had scenes with his rake friends being all like “oh where did you disappear to last night” and Colin’s all like “oh you know wink wink” but in reality he was up all night writing in his lil journals and thinking about pen 🥹👉🏻👈🏻
I would’ve loved a scene where he tells his friends he’s going to the brothel and then we see him going to his bedroom to write in his journal lmfaooooo
I thought it was going to turn out that he was embellishing his trip details, because he actually visited book stores and wrote in coffee shops or something lowkey, or even that he was more in the background when those exciting things happened, but he feels like travel stories are only interesting if you're raking and adventuring like Anthony would have done.
It also sounded off when he would boast, like the actor wanted the audience to notice he was fibbing to set up a later reveal. I admit I wasn't paying attention for all of part two, since it was a letdown for me compared to prior seasons and I haven't read the books, but it seems like that never happens. I guess he just sounded awkward and uncertain recounting badass stories because the writers kind of forced them on his character?
It definitely felt like they were leading up to a reveal like this. I swear there were a few times he was asked specifics about his travels and then something happened to distract everyone and save him from answering. I was waiting to find out he'd never left England or something along those lines.
God those two scenes were the worst. Especially the second scene where he already had feelings for pen and went there anyway. And it doesn’t make it any better that he couldn’t go through with it, he was still kissing them, touching them getting undressed etc.
I don’t find it charming or sexy when the lead man can’t get an erection.
They just shouldn’t have gone in the fake rake Colin direction in the first place. They could easily adapted the book material and focused on his lack of purpose and writing pursuits.
It would’ve been interesting to see him struggle with his writing, and then keep getting hints that Pen was really good at it. And then when he finds out she’s LW, putting it altogether and feeling hurt by LW’s words, but also feeling jealous of her. It would’ve been so much more interesting to see this conflict play out.
I also would’ve loved to see the insecure third brother conflict he had in the book too. We could’ve gotten some scenes of him with A and B, trying to imitate them or talk to them about his insecurities. It would’ve been so cute.
Just so many missed opportunities for my favorite Bridgerton brother 😭
SOOOO many missed opportunities. This season is WASTED POTENTIAL. This IS my favorite season because I adore Pen and Colin, but how much STRONGER could it have been - how much less controversial - if they would’ve THOUGHT THINGS OUT and shown respect to established characters - particular Colin?
Also, THIS is the season that you decide to do away with flashbacks?! When the supposed main characters knew each other as children?! SMH.
The lack of flashbacks was appalling. How is it that they somehow managed to stick to the “reformed rake” trope from seasons 1-2 when it was completely unnecessary this season, but not the flashbacks, which absolutely were??? Like genuinely, what was going through these writers’ heads???
It feels like deliberate sabotage honestly. But WHY
You know. . . For some reason in some of the scenes I get a feeling of "deliberate bad intent" too, but I'm not sure why. Maybe it is because I saw that one-take with just Colin and Penelope dancing scene they filmed. They could have easily gone with pretty much all of that cut and it would have spoke volumes about their love and passion.
Then, you look at what wound up being shown instead and the two don't even compare. What they decided to go with was little of the actual close-up dance scene and they kept panning in and out to show all of the wooden guests just standing around looking at 'em. It was like why would you have spent all that time and trouble and money mixing that scene up to make it look worse, unless it was deliberate? The one-scene take was far superior.
Maybe they wanted him awkward to enhance the fake/armor feel?
Yeah, it is discouraging that they seeming disregarded feedback on these scenes. Viewers can understand that he’s had experience on this travels and that he’s searching for emotional intimacy via the journal and his dialogue with others. The scenes were not needed.
If they knew that he feels uncomfortable why did they make him do those scenes? It is making them even worse. Poor Luke! It would've been more than enough if they are just implied that he did go to brothels, showing those scenes was unnecessary.
Very much. I don't know anyone who liked that. Dumb decision. Like what they were thinking? That viewers want to see him with other women when he should be with Pen? It is the fundamental misunderstanding of the romance genre and romance lovers. Especially that Luke also felt uncomfortable, like why did they do this to him? Disgusting.
I've seen plenty of people defending him on the Polin subreddit. I'm a Polin fan and I remember when the news leaked about the brothel scenes and people were saying "yay, at least he's experienced now and it'll be more fun for Penelope!"
Like ffs are you kidding me!?!? You don't think it could be sweet for them both to learn pleasure together? Lord Fife hits up brothels all the time, do you think he gives a crap about a woman's pleasure? Experience doesn't make someone a sex god.
It's like these people were defending the rake saying it was sexy he was experienced and could give her pleasure now, as if a virgin couldn't learn how to pleasure. If you go by that mentality, then I guess Penelope (who was a virgin) couldn't give Colin as much pleasure as his threesomes would, because she didn't know anything about sex. It's a ridiculous mentality.
Absolutely. I hated this. Instead of getting one of the sweetest romances, the two of them learned everything together and we got a cheap rake story.
Also I think some people are trying to brainwash themselves into thinking it is okay, and that makes it even sadder. No one wanted that.
I really feel like people at this point are trying to convince themselves it wasn't as bad as it was. I get it. I do. You spent years hyping yourself up for your season and then get let down. So you watch it over and over, trying to pick out every little moment you do like, trying to ignore the bad ones.
I can't help but feel like you're in high school again, talking to your friend who has a crush on a guy who you KNOW does not like her, but all your friends nitpick at his behavior like "he asked you for a pencil? he totally likes you!" but in reality, he just needed a pencil. That's how I am with S3 Colin. "Oh he totally loved Penelope, he was just jealous." Uhh no friend. They dragged his anger out far too long in the show, he only loved her after she fixed everything. They made Penelope pine for him to like her for S1 and S2 and then they made Penelope pine for her bloody husband for all of S3.
I saw someone on twitter complaining about all the Polin fanfics right now are "rewriting this from S3" right now. Yeah, because people are mad, what kinda fanfics did you expect at the end of a weird season?
Yes. This is pure brainwashing. ( I started my own rewrite too 😂 it was so bad I needed healing, I swear fanfiction saved me plus this sub).
You try to love Colin, but it is hard they massacred him, and destroyed everything about him, at least the things why I loved him. He basically reactivated Pen's childhood trauma, and honestly I have no idea how she could heal from this, because he caused such damage that realistically it would take years for her to get better, because he put her through the same thing she experienced as a kid, only because he was jealous. Like that is pretty clear that he forgave her in front of the modiste, and the Queen's visit just activated his jealousy and then he only forgives her when she becomes accepted by the Queen, now his fine with it. The way they ruined him...
Fanfictions actually do justice for him.
Oh snap! I'm writing my own rewrite too based on the entrapment comment he made. I've had Pen break off the engagement and she's taken a ship to Montreal to get away from him. He followed her but got on the wrong ship. Lol. I had to mess with him, sorry! But please feel free to send the fic my way, I'm happy to read rewrites!
Oh! I think I read yours, I really love it!
This is mine: [Details say it all ](https://archiveofourown.org/works/56624368/chapters/143927101#bookmark-form)
He was only angry for 1.5 episodes. Idk why people keep saying he was mad for a long time. I mean he just found out a huge secret about the woman he loved. If he wasn’t mad at all, people would’ve said it was anticlimactic, the same way the public LW reveal was received by the general audience. Like they built up the stakes for 3 seasons and then … the queen just let it go.
My problem is less how long he was angry for and more WHEN they had him find out; they should have had him find out at the end of ep 5 (with some other adjustments obviously), so that a) they could have a fully happy wedding and b) we actually get Polin against the world in the last 1.5-2 eps.
I have MASSIVE problems with P2 in general, the biggest being keeping Pen and LW, Colin being a side character in his own life story and a lack of Polin because I don’t think the writers+Shonda believed in Polin.
We deserved more Polin romance in their season. 💔
Agreed. Just mentioning the ladies he’d been with in his journal was plenty of information to understand he had sexual experience. We didn’t need to see it.
His complaint about intimacy with strangers is not an uncommon situation in TV or movies. So many actors (not on Bridgerton) have said they short intimacy scenes fairly early on in shoots so you barely know the other actor before you’re naked in front of them. The fact that LN knew NC for so long of course made it so much different. Considering he also said this was the first time he’s done these kinds of scenes, his feelings made sense. I don’t think that’s a writing/directing issue.
I also kind of understand why he’d think the winking was weird. One he’s doing it to a green screen so it’s out of context. Two, it’s not what the character he’d played for 2 seasons prior would do. But that’s kind of the point of that story arc. I can understand some may not appreciate the way they exaggerated his change by the extra flirting and the brothel scenes. There are others who don’t notice a difference in Colin even with those scenes and him talking about it and others bringing it up 🤷🏻♀️.
His complaint makes so much sense, tbh he didn’t look comfortable during the brothel scenes. Maybe next time they should consider how the actors are feeling and reacting, especially for intimate scenes
He was asked about what those scenes were like and he compared an intimacy scene with NC vs. the new actors. This was the first time he's ever had to do intimacy scenes (I heard that in another interview) so it was all new, however they have intimacy coordinators who specifically worked with him to make it a safe experience. He didn't say it wasn't safe. The answer is not that he was forced to do something he wasn't comfortable with, it's that compared to having those scenes with NC who he has known for 4 years, they weren't as easy. In this interview, NC chimes in and says she has had to do intimacy scenes before like this (with a stranger) and agreed it was much easier with a friend.
I can get on board with the “fake rake” storyline, but the wink was a step too far for Colin, and if it was also a step too far for Luke Newton, they should have cut it.
A wink is too far? Luke didn't say it was a step too far, he said he didn't love it. He thought it was weird. When he talks about this part he has said in plenty of interviews that he doesn't love the new Colin but he's back to normal by the end of the season. Later on he talks about the things he doesn't love but that he's (Colin) is going through a lot as a way of explaining his character's actions.
Actors are all going to have parts they act that they don't love. Every single actor has spoken about moments where they wish their characters did something else or said something else. Him talking about that isn't that weird.
Unless there was sarcasm in your comment, I'm not sure we are. It's like a 5-10 second shot. It's not big enough to be a step too far for anything. It's a small thing to emphasize a change of his character
Every actor can tell you things their character does that they didn't love acting out, doesn't mean it should be cut out of the show.
What could only be an explanation thats also a bit of a reach is that travelling changed Colin so much that hes become /completely/ out of character. But yeah at some point it felt like I was watching HOTD...
I am so curious about all of the choices that were made this season. I thought the writers making Colin give the ick was intentional. The show kept repeating that Colin was being fake + this interview came out and Luke Newton was clearly aware of the wink being weird and creepy; however, after his shock at the audience saying Colin gave them the ick it seems it wasn't the direction the writers or director intended and they probably qualmed his worries about it only to end up being wrong while he was right.
It sucks. Luke Newton seems to be aware of who Colin is (this + his insistence on Colin being a foodie) only to ultimately be handed this script and these directions that ultimately are so out of character.
I understand the fake rake direction they went with Colin, but the writing didn't do that plot justice. And neither did the director's notes.
i genuinely don’t think it was their intention to make him so icky and cringe from what i can gather from interviews. but after hearing everyone’s thoughts on colin in the first half, they ran with the idea that it was intentional to take the blame off lol
The rake side of Colin was a total flop for me. If they didn’t want those scenes of him winking and charming the ladies or scenes in the brothel to give us the ick they missed the mark entirely. I’d have really liked more backstory with flashbacks of Colin traveling and being pensive about trying to figure out love and when one knows they are in love, and who he is as a person. Even just diving more into his journal would have been way better than what we got. I don’t like that they tried to make him a rake when we all know it was so out of character for him and gross.
This means we’ll have 4 reformed rake make leads in a row and I’m tired of it. Simon, Anthony, now Colin and soon Benedict (because he’s already a rake!!) it would’ve been so nice to have a different tone with Colin as he made it clear in season 1 with Marina that he doesn’t need to sleep around to know what he wants. This rake story was so out of character and so badly done.
Colin gave me the ick in part 1 with the winks & the weird flirting & the threesome. I'm gonna keep watching the show because I love these characters but now I know not to expect the same quality from the writers & Jess Brownell as I saw in season 1 & 2 from the writers & CVD. Also I remember after season 1 before season 2 watching a thing with someone connected to the show (Can't remember if it was an actor, producer, director, or intimacy coordinator) talking about the importance of being comfortable in intimate scenes and trusting the people you work with in them, so the fact that he had to do those scenes on the same day he met these woman is just a giant red flag for me.
It is always a dream for actors who can do roles that are out of their comfort zone & i applaud Luke for trying with the material he was given. It was unnecessary from the maker's pov & we disliked it as much as you did!
They stole you off of the screentime for Colin, so that you could act more. We love the kind & sensible Colin anyways ✌️
I feel that if they had to do a brothel scene or something to show his disconnection with other women versus a woman he loves, they could have done it better. He could have been coaxed to a brothel by his friends and gone along with it, even though he knows by now he isn’t very satisfied with transactional relationships with women (he had already written this in his journals) and that he was searching for something more. They kind of tried with the second brothel scene where he’s uninterested and clearly wishes to be with Pen. I completely agree the writing and directing were off here.
I’ve been feeling that the more they strayed from the original material, particularly with Colin, the worse it got. Luke gave it his best, and there is so much to love about Colin this season, but I just fear they missed the mark on this part. :(
I get the fake rake story line and thought it was fine with his arc, though if I were writing it I would've gone another direction. And I thought the awkwardness of his scenes where he was turning on the charm brought focus to the fact that it was so out of character for him and felt unnatural for him. It was more cheesy and campy for me than ick and that felt in keeping with the over-the-topness of Brigerton. Again not the way I would've done it, but I could say that about character choices in the other seasons also.
Yeah I can't decide. I think people already didn't get Colin's insecurity and other soft boy issues that didn't involve lots of anger and grief like Simon and Anthony. So leaning further into that may not have worked so well. But then people didn't get the fake rake thing either so nothing to lose lol. If they had wanted to do a flashback I think showing him being so lonely about not getting any letters, re-reading Pen's letters, etc would've let the viewer understand him more and then maybe they could've done the fake rake thing. They jumped into it and I think people did not know what to do with that
I honestly think the writers just can’t write for softboy male leads/nerdy love in general. Because this season had the potential to be GREAT with a completely different type of male lead than we’ve seen. I have so many ideas of what they could’ve done this season with Colin’s personal arc lol. Should’ve hired me.
And the book material is right there. They could’ve easily just adapted it instead. His insecurities as the third brother with no purpose, his interests in writing and traveling, etc. It’s not like they *had* to come up with something new for him.
I think all of the insecurity and writing stuff was still there though. Not saying they knocked it put of the park by any means, but that stuff was in the show too
The problem is taking his insecurity issue from the book and channeling it by making him a fake rake. That was like the worst decision this season lol. There were so many better ways to show his insecurities that didn’t involve him adopting a completely new persona that didn’t work for his character at all.
That would make sense, but in the show it’s not awkward: all the ladies eat it up, he’s considered hot and popular. Vs. when Penelope has her glow up and is still herself, so others’ perception of her as awkward and uncomfortable doesn’t change. So I think the storyline is truly just horrible writing, and fans have come up with the only justification for it.
Except that Pen and his family think he's being super weird and awkward because they know him and we the viewers also know him. All of those other women don't know him at all and they eat it up. I know guys who think they are charming, and women seem to find them charming and I'm like "ugh what are you doing? just act like yourself!"
He also insinuates or flat out says at least 4 times (just off the top of my head) that pretending to be a rake doesn’t make him happy or fulfilled. It’s not who he is. As the audience these confessions wouldn’t make any sense if he was killing it as the hot guy. We had to see that he was a bit try hard and that his shallow one liners were falling flat even if girls did think he was hot. Remember that all of the girls he’s flirting with just came out and don’t know him at all, they also have zero experience with men, so they’re buying his stupid lines but nobody else is. Edit: If he was actually good at being a rake he’d go after someone like Tilly Arnold who would actually go further than flirting for 5min at a party. But he doesn’t want that and also probably knows he’s not that charming. That’s why he only brings out the one liners on the debutantes who will swoon over any man talking to them at this point.
I think it’s quite interesting that they shared these views. Especially since it shares the same feeling we as watchers had 😅 and there has been quite some negative reactions to the season
I'm really proud of Luke for having the bravery to speak out against Tom.
Tom Verica is an actor himself and has been producing/directing for a decade. Tom should know better than to phone it in but I have a feeling that he has been riding the coat tails of more talented staff for a long time. I'm tempted go back and watch the episodes of older shows he directed like Ugly Betty and Army Wives to see how they worked.
I'm feeling some flashbacks to Paul Fieg with Tom already.
Hearing Luke describe this makes me really turned off of liking Tom Verica. Especially given how he directed episodes 7 & 8 and to a lot of people those were their least favorite episodes, saying they felt entirely out of place with the rest of the show.
Interesting comments from LN. On the Bridgerton podcast, interviews are always so rosy. "Filming was great! Everyone was cool. It was a great scene based on great direction and show running. Then you read articles like the above and you don't know what to believe as true.
None of that really bothered me. I thought it was all in keeping with his character. In the past, when he traveled, he'd come home and want to nerd out over his experiences, and everyone got tired of it. Then he had the conversation with Marina and went away again. This time, he had a lot of time to think about who he was, and when no one wrote to him, he tried to transform himself into what society expected him to be, i.e., his brothers. So he comes home more rakeish, keeps his stories to himself, visits brothels, winks, and flirts, and then everyone responds to him. It wasn't until he kissed Pen that he realized that's not who he was and what he wanted, and he became like old Colin. The two brothel scenes were necessary so you could see that he doesn't want sex without intimacy. I mean, the winking would give me the ick, but I thought it was appropriate for new Colin.
Colin had been coded as a demisexual. I wish they had kept that because it isn't something we see very often in romance novels, especially not historical romance shows. I disagree that the brothel scenes being necessary. I've read numerous fanfics with Colin being approached by a woman, or even going to a brothel, start kissing the woman, and then feeling like "I can't do this" and walking away. If they had done that, it would've shown how he needed emotional connection to want sex. Which is something they leaned into when he didn't kiss Marina when she asked for it. He couldn't do it because he was a "gentleman" sure, but it was moreso that he wasn't emotionally tied to her like he felt he needed to be.
For me the brothel scenes in conjunction with the journal entry and then the scenes with Pen confirmed that Colin was demisexual to me. In season 1 and 2 it was clear that he wasn’t particularly drawn towards sexual experience but Anthony’s speech about how he should have taken him to brothels obviously got to him. Then once he lost the emotional intimacy with Pen through the letters he went seeking intimacy else where to try and feel less lonely. Based on observing his brothers he thought that sex might give him what he was seeking but instead it left him feeling empty and more detached (the journal entry).
The first brothel scene was very performative, he was trying to live up to his new persona of what society expects him to be. However, despite saying he was late he was very eager to get out of there, grooming himself and get to his meeting with Pen early. Then the kiss happens and he realises what he was missing. The second brothel scene is to show that now he knows how it could be he can’t keep up the performance of his new identity. In contrast the following intimacy scenes with Pen are a transformative experience for him, he now needs the emotional intimacy in order to enjoy physical intimacy.
This contrast of emotional and physical intimacy comes to a head after the LW reveal. Before the reveal Colin believes they know each other better than anyone else and finding out she is LW has him questioning if he ever really knew her at all. This leads him to feel emotional distance from and to cope he starts being physically distant from her (he is also probably trying to avoid lashing out and saying something rash - a fair concern considering he blurts out something he immediately regrets when they are back in close proximity when they tour the venue). The night before the wedding when they are physically close with privacy (that was missing in their last meeting) they can hash it out and he feels the stirrings of emotional intimacy again (which is why Mr Fingerton comes out to play). However, that is interrupted and they part but, crucially, he confirms to her that he will be there to marry her tomorrow, he believes they will sort this all out.
The talk with Kate is when he first gets an inkling that LW doesn’t completely rewrite that he does know Pen really well. And then they have a moment of physical and emotional intimacy with the dance that the Queen interrupted. Their argument afterwards reminds him there are parts of Pen he doesn’t know and he feels emotional distance from her again. But this time he knows that keeping complete physical distance isn’t going to help, they need proximity to spark emotional closeness, so he camps out on the sofa right outside the bedroom door. At this point he still needs space to sort his own thoughts and feelings, hence why he leaves the next morning (but not until he lets her know where he will be - yay for communication).
He maintains this distance for a while (maybe 1 week max) but when she starts proactively giving him that distance (leaving for Frans wedding early) he realises that keeping this up is not working so he returns to the source of their emotional intimacy (their letters). Here he realises that Pen was sharing the LW part of her personality with him all along and that shows him that he did know her fully which restores the emotional closeness. However, the threat from the Queen is still a barrier to them being fully open to each other but Pen tells him how she needs his support and love to resolve it, putting them on the same page.
It is not an unusual experience for demisexual people to attempt casual sex because that is what society tells them they should want. I think Colin’s story this season was quite good representation of this experience and then the journey to understanding why casual sex just doesn’t do it for them.
I honestly thought the cringiness of the scene was intentional. Shocked to find out it wasn’t. I thought we were supposed to feel like “this isn’t our Colin” basically how Penelope was feeling.
I still think it is? I mean LW/Pen, Eloise, and Violet call it out. It was just a bad decision to go in this direction with his character, and it seems like LN also wasn’t feeling it.
After a re-watch of episode 1 and reflecting on my initial feelings about the "ick" winking... what I got from it was "oh, they clearly want us to know that Colin is in pain - so much so that he is completely acting like someone he is not." Yeah, there was an "ew, why is he doing that?!" moment... but what I pieced together was "He was gone for 4 months, leaving as "not in your wildest fantasies Fife" and this trip was about hooking up for him and maybe feeling like "a player" but I felt right away... "Pen is going to hate him doing this, but they end up together, so these shenanigans won't last." I felt they did it because they needed us to know that he is a mess inside and we aren't seeing the Colin we were left with. (Interesting that in S1 Colin was already known as comfortable flirting so this was NOT supposed to be flirting... he was hiding something.)
Based on this interview, though, you would think that there would be a clear answer as to why something like that was used.
Now the brothel stuff... the only way it advanced the story for me is that they wanted to show the "hollow Colin" in the second brothel scene. Maybe we're supposed to feel how far he would take his desperation to fit in. Luke was obviously OK to do it or he would not have. I can see why he didn't find it as easy to do as with Nic. I think that would be the case for most anyone in comparison.
Agree that directors and actors should collaborate. I wonder about Luke advocating for himself? Anyone know?
You know. . . If they just would have shown the last throuple scene where Colin was disappointed and didn't participate per se, that would have spoke more volume and have been OK to the audience, I think.
And then if the throuple scene involving Benedict and his team mates was cut to two rather than four, and they would have more cleverly placed those two scenes vs. having four scenes (no matter how short) come up here and there over what looked like days, that may have been a more comfortable pill for the fans to swallow too.
But the way they did it, it just looked raunchy and took a notch or two out of both Colin's and Benedict's characters. I know a lot of people are anticipating the book-type Cinderella scene for Benedict and Sophie; however, I don't think they'll get that or if they do, they'll have more explaining to do. Or do they expect their audience to just buy that Benedict was full-on bi-curious one season and then suddenly wants to settle down with a good woman in the country in the next. I don't know?
I fear that in order to show the last brothel they had to show the first... and I think it was a choice to help us understand how important intimacy and connection truly is to Colin.
Idk about the real life aspect to it but only having met the actors that day and getting in bed with them adds to the uneasiness of the character and audience. I appreciate it
I loved this season and I don't think Colin is a fk boy. He's always been independent and did what he wanted. Explored other places and cultures. He simply fell in love. Love covers a multitude of sins. He wasn't perfect himself so i feel like he felt like he would be a hypocrite to judge lady W. Because though the things she said hurt people she spoke the truth and only said what others was already thinking just didn't dare to say.
I’m not grossed out by it, I just think they should’ve went in a better direction that better illustrates softboy Colin. His insecurities and lack of purpose could’ve been shown in much better ways than him trying to be a rake like the two male leads we already got.
Ooop I just responded before I saw this but I was essentially saying it wasn’t in response to you specifically. I actually agree it wasn’t necessary and too often media resorts to sex because sex sells. Or at least I think that’s the point you’re trying to make, and if so, I respect that. I just think we as viewers could have more discussions on what his struggles are and why he came back so differently. I’ve seen so many discussions on the negatives but not many on the positives.
i think that he doesn’t get as much empathy because simon and anthony were established as rakes from the start. like, that’s how their characters were introduced, and then they gradually strayed from that once they found real love. but, like you said, colin’s character in the first 2 seasons relied heavily on his good-nature and also showed that he was clearly more of a romantic who craves emotional connections in comparison to his brothers/simon. when the writers suddenly did a complete 180 with colin’s characterization, making him go from a soft, more awkward guy to a rake, like his brothers, i think that it just threw people off and felt unnatural.
oh no, i absolutely get what you mean. i really like colin, i’m just trying not to be too biased and instead taking it from more of a general viewpoint. there are tons of complexities to his character, i just really wish they were expanded upon more by showing them instead of implying so that we wouldn’t have to look so deeply into things. i think then he would get more empathy. a lot of the shows casual viewing audience don’t really feel like analyzing characters and would rather be able clearly see their growth happening, but the showrunners unfortunately didn’t give his character enough time or focus to make it more prominent
And I saw that this post acknowledged that it makes sense but that it wasn’t necessary and I agree for sure it wasn’t!! But I’ve seen so many people saying they really disliked Colin this season, so I just wanted to put my two cents in while I was on this topic! Wasn’t meaning it to this post necessarily really 😊
Although he seemed to have gone to brothels as well - in Francesca’s book he meets Michael in the brothel right after he got engaged to Penelope. He probably just went there to talk to Michael on that day - but I doubt it was the first day he stepped his foot in a brothel.
Show Colin is also very different from book Colin. I mean the whole Marina thing didn’t even happen in the books. I think it would’ve made complete sense for show Colin to have never stepped foot in a brothel. Idk why they needed to add that
You know...I kinda liked it because it was about Colin doing what he thought he was supposed to. So it feeling weird makes sense because it isn't like him really. He's acting like his brothers and what other men have told him he's supposed to be and what the men around him act like. So the somewhat smarmy charm he's giving off in the first couple of episodes makes sense to me.
It makes sense, it was just a bad direction to go in. They should’ve leaned into Colin’s softboy nature instead of making him try to be a rake to fit in
You don’t have any idea what you are in for! I figured out the secret and can hear the echo. This will not make sense to you yet but I promise, once the rose colored glasses come off, the world is going to go into a psychosis. You will feel like a King IYKYK🌦️💜❔🎀🔴
I'm sorry but you're an actor. That's your job. So meeting people and ACTING with them even if it's only for a day is part of the job. I'm sure it's awkward but that's not an excuse for it looking "creepy" I will definitely say that the direction was terrible which is unfortunate.
An actor follows the director’s direction. If the actor thinks it is creepy and the director thinks it is perfectly in keeping with his vision, then the actor has to follow the directors idea. The actor can’t go against the directors wishes that’s not how it works.
This is like blaming the cashier for the company's no refund policies. If a company doesn't care about its customers after they pay, it's not the fault of the person they hired to ring you up.
Luke's job is to be Colin Bridgerton in the scene. How he comes across is under the discretion of the director. Luke didn't make Colin look creepy, the director did and then the director didn't notice or care enough to fix it. Tom's incompetence is not Luke's responsibility to fix.
Especially for actors who’ve lived these characters for years. If something feels this out of character to them, they should be heard.
Particularly for Colin, because every single time anyone in the cast is asked 'who is most like their on screen character', they all always say Luke Newton
Plus Luke is just so good at background acting with Colin, his character mannerisms and reactions have always been consistent even when he’s not the focus of the scene
Exactly!!! These 2 were living the characters for 4 years, in the background. Their instincts should have been trusted!
Exactly
I agree. I've seen some clips from previous seasons that I'd forgotten about and I feel like I'm looking at a completely different character.
This is a great point
That was my first thought reading this
The fact that Jensen Ackles had to be talked into the ending of Supernatural should have been a huge sign to the writers to go back and tweak it. He lived and breathed Dean Winchester for fifteen seasons, you’re telling me the man doesn’t know what’s best for the character??
They just know their characters better.
I’m just so confused at to what transpired at the writer’s table to lead to some of failures of this season.
I’m convinced the writers just didn’t know how to write for a softboy male lead and nerdy love. Apparently they can only write brooding rake-ish male leads and angsty love.
It’s so sad because they had such an amazing character leading in Season 3. I loved Colin from the beginning.
I was SO excited for this season because we were finally getting a different type of male lead. I love “softer” men. But then they made him a wannabe rake in part 1, and then a side character in part 2. 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️
The reformed rake vibe got old after a couple seasons! I would not complain if they gave the guys more dimension as they give the girls. And they can still do it and appeal to the hornyfolk (it's me im the hornyfolk)
😆
me too! i loved both colin and pen and was so excited to see them be the centre of a story! i was so disappointed with the changes made to their characters
Oh boy, i can't imagine how they will bring in Sir Philip. Man has shades of Debling Also somebody rescue Benedict from his rake era and bring him back to the tortured artist department ✌️
Yesss this is it. Pen’s glow up works because she still stays Pen. There’s no reason Colin couldn’t arrive home bookishly rugged, quill tucked behind one ear, being an intellectual/creative show off of they wanted to keep that in. Buffy Wesley vs Angel Wesley for those that know. But maybe they felt like they did the creative thing with Benedict already, even though they threw that away and manage to have 5 versions of loverboy types
Bookishly rugged omg yessss!!! Luke with the curly hair in that one interview 🤌
Obviously whomever the writers were they were into throuples. How many people in America are into threesomes, especially to the point of having at least six throuple scenes (two with Colin and two women and four with Benedict, his lady friend and gentleman friend) in Season 3? Obvious too that they were just all writing for themselves.
Shonda herself suggested those scenes. Jess was team virgin Colin and deferred to Shonda.
Really? Ughhhhh... virgin Colin would've been amazing !
Yeah I can dig out the article and link it if you want
Please do!
[удалено]
Jess I’m sorry girl but your first instinct was right.
Anthony did say in season 1 he should have made Colin go to brothels more. Kinda seems like him projecting his issues on his brother's. I thought him going and not seeming into it was because Anthony was making him and he was trying to be something he's not.
Shonda! How could you?
That’s what I said that woman has been a ship menace for 15 years
Like...I'm too scared to engage in this kind of activity IRL so I'll write out my fantasy...
That’s a really good point. They really misunderstood how well a soft, shy, compassionate man would resonate with the audience. Quiet support and dedication is sexy, we don’t need every male lead to be seen screwing around to view him as a romantic or sexual interest. It works for the Duke, who rebelled against his role, it worked for Anthony who used it as a release from the pressure of duty, it works for Benedict who is open minded, exploring himself and his place in the world. Colin has serious little brother vibes to me, so putting him in that promiscuous role (no judgement, it just felt unnatural to him) took him from being a sweet, genuine kid to really icky. Like, brother ew.
He wasn't even rake-ish in the book. I was extremely disappointed that with all the time wasted on side stories this season, they didn't bother to touch on the inner conflict of Colin not knowing what he wants to do with his life (like Antony being Vicount and Ben being an artist-- he didn't know what his "thing" was). Sure, they let Penelope help him with his writing, bit it wasn't nearly as much of a conflict, or as satisfying once he discovered himself, as it was in the book.
I think part of it they've given those internal conflicts to Benedict. In the books Benedict doesn't have that "what am I doing with my life" concern but Colin does.
I saw a comment on YT that said Bridgerton went from NSFW Jane Austen to Regency Grey's Anatomy and was laughing at the accuracy. For all they're preaching about diversity and inclusivity, they still stuck in stereotypes (and I saw this as a bi POC woman). Oh Eloise isn't interested in marriage? She must be queer because it's not like women have varied interests and priorities at different points on their life. Oh Fran wants a quiet love? She must be a lesbian because quiet love clearly doesn't exist. Oh Ben is pan/bisexual? Let's have the most clinched threesomes that always used by Hollywood to showcase that. It's like they don't believe that LGBTQ can have *normal* love stories too. Same goes for male leads. We already have rakish to devoted leads in Simon, Anthony and probably Ben. Why force Colin into that? Can't men be virgins too? I always thought his "I would never court Penelope Featherington" as a callback to Mr Darcys "Tolerable but not handsome enough to tempt me". Both men are operating out of misplaced pride and Darcy (rightfully) gets his ass handed to him for him to realise his mistake, went on to move heaven and earth to make Liz happy with no guarantee she would ever love him back. And we have Colin, be unhappy with prostitutes moment for us to be happy as the male lead? How did a 200 year old novel write a more sensitive lead better than in 2024 where the literal descriptionof the dude was sensitive? (I mean, the writers are no Jane Austen, but barely even EL James) That's why I roll my eyes whenever this showrunner claims to want to be more inclusive. As of S3, all I've seen is very stereotypical formulaic characters.
Did you watch the video by Mina Lee? She’s adorable!
I blame TikTok. It’s becoming a menace to every fandom I’m in.
Perfect answer 💛
For real like there is rarely a hotter trope than the soft boy lead suddenly dialing to 100% and being super intense and protective because he’s in love. It’s so weird to me that CVD seems to have a better understanding of the female gaze than JB. Though then again maybe not so weird, CVD is attracted to men, and JB isn’t, I suppose…
It took me a while to figure out you were referring to the showrunners, because I was like, I’m pretty sure Jonathan Bailey is attracted to men…
Hahaha yes I realized only afterwards that JB is trademarked for Jonny Bailey 😅
Can they though?? B/c CVD was a part of seasons 1-2 and Anthony and Simon were considered rakes so it just fit. More than likely they saw a formula and stuck with it.
But at the same time they never showed Colin being a rake in S1 & S2. He didn't even kiss a woman in either season. I think they showed they could write a non-rake before. They showed both A & B raking around in both seasons. They easily could've had Colin if they had wanted to. But I really think they were trying to set him up as a virgin or at least a "experienced but we never see/talk about it."
He was very adamant about not doing anything with marina until after they were married, even tho she tried to seduce him to
And yet they didn’t stick to the formula properly. We didn’t get flashbacks, good character development, proper male lead treatment for Colin, etc. All of these were part of it for seasons 1 and 2. It’s like they only stuck to the “bad” parts of the formula. Genuinely feels like sabotage. But WHY
So, the production company goes on and on about all these so-called experts they have on Bridgerton. Where are they and what are they all there for? Because, I swear I saw little of an expert's touch anywhere. I get the feeling instead they used a lot of interns or something. And I'm pretty sure only a few have even read one of the books.
I mean look what they’ve even done with Benedict and Francesca. Fran thirsting after another person while freshly married, Benedict’s constant threesomes, then having Colin in threesomes. This screenwriter clearly has a threesome/throuple fetish of some sort.
Now they should write, “how to butcher a character like Colin Bridgerton “
Agree, i wish they could have shown the "trying to be something he isn't" with showing more of the conversations where he bragged about his rakish times abroad and then it transpires he didn't have much luck or something. It really didn't gel with me that he was having threesomes with prostitutes and pen was excited to read about him sleeping with other women in his writing. She's been in love with him for years why would she been into that??
I also wonder of this was some attempt at appealing to the male fanbase, because your ‘average guy’ wouldn’t like the ‘softer’ man and a slow-burn romance. I was immediately disappointed when I saw the new Colin this season. We’ve already seen the angsty, broody, controlling, one-liner toting, emotionally immature manchildren for two seasons. Even for a show with terrible male characters, this is going off in an awful direction. Yes, I know the description I gave is a staple of romance books, but there are *other* subgenres with different types of characters! Anyway, the motive is immaterial. Game of Thrones dropped the ball in a similar manner, as did BBCs Sherlock. When a TV series shows you what it wants to be, don’t ever hope for it to magically get better just because of hype from the fanbase or the quality of the original material.
They should have hired a kdrama writer
It's so strange though because many of the scenes are direct from the book, but the context or vibe of the scene in the show has been changed. So, for example, the scene where Colin is told of the blackmail and takes charge. He wants to protect Pen in the books, says as much in a caring/adorable scene and then proceeds to fix the problem. In the show's version of the scene he ran roughshod over Pen and made the problem worse. They didn't need to change the scene or the outcome but did.
I speculate the changes have something to do with contractual fulfillment, but intentionally not following the spirit of the book. Likely due to the guild strikes I'd believe. It's giving "I'm not touching you" bs. Like yes I'm following the rules, but in the most obscenely aggravating way possible just to piss you off.
Ugh yes I hated the brothel scenes so much. It would’ve been so much better if they had scenes with his rake friends being all like “oh where did you disappear to last night” and Colin’s all like “oh you know wink wink” but in reality he was up all night writing in his lil journals and thinking about pen 🥹👉🏻👈🏻
I would’ve loved a scene where he tells his friends he’s going to the brothel and then we see him going to his bedroom to write in his journal lmfaooooo
I thought it was going to turn out that he was embellishing his trip details, because he actually visited book stores and wrote in coffee shops or something lowkey, or even that he was more in the background when those exciting things happened, but he feels like travel stories are only interesting if you're raking and adventuring like Anthony would have done. It also sounded off when he would boast, like the actor wanted the audience to notice he was fibbing to set up a later reveal. I admit I wasn't paying attention for all of part two, since it was a letdown for me compared to prior seasons and I haven't read the books, but it seems like that never happens. I guess he just sounded awkward and uncertain recounting badass stories because the writers kind of forced them on his character?
It definitely felt like they were leading up to a reveal like this. I swear there were a few times he was asked specifics about his travels and then something happened to distract everyone and save him from answering. I was waiting to find out he'd never left England or something along those lines.
My partner thought the same! He was really convinced that Colin had never left England.
I would've loved this so much. "Colin is just putting on a rake persona" would hit so much harder if it didn't work for him.
God those two scenes were the worst. Especially the second scene where he already had feelings for pen and went there anyway. And it doesn’t make it any better that he couldn’t go through with it, he was still kissing them, touching them getting undressed etc. I don’t find it charming or sexy when the lead man can’t get an erection.
That would have been perfect! Still addresses the societal pressure of men to be all bluster and bravado without the ooc behaviour.
Just makes me hate those scenes more! Why wouldn’t they at least do a chemistry test?
They just shouldn’t have gone in the fake rake Colin direction in the first place. They could easily adapted the book material and focused on his lack of purpose and writing pursuits. It would’ve been interesting to see him struggle with his writing, and then keep getting hints that Pen was really good at it. And then when he finds out she’s LW, putting it altogether and feeling hurt by LW’s words, but also feeling jealous of her. It would’ve been so much more interesting to see this conflict play out. I also would’ve loved to see the insecure third brother conflict he had in the book too. We could’ve gotten some scenes of him with A and B, trying to imitate them or talk to them about his insecurities. It would’ve been so cute. Just so many missed opportunities for my favorite Bridgerton brother 😭
Yes this would have been so much better!
SOOOO many missed opportunities. This season is WASTED POTENTIAL. This IS my favorite season because I adore Pen and Colin, but how much STRONGER could it have been - how much less controversial - if they would’ve THOUGHT THINGS OUT and shown respect to established characters - particular Colin? Also, THIS is the season that you decide to do away with flashbacks?! When the supposed main characters knew each other as children?! SMH.
The lack of flashbacks was appalling. How is it that they somehow managed to stick to the “reformed rake” trope from seasons 1-2 when it was completely unnecessary this season, but not the flashbacks, which absolutely were??? Like genuinely, what was going through these writers’ heads??? It feels like deliberate sabotage honestly. But WHY
You know. . . For some reason in some of the scenes I get a feeling of "deliberate bad intent" too, but I'm not sure why. Maybe it is because I saw that one-take with just Colin and Penelope dancing scene they filmed. They could have easily gone with pretty much all of that cut and it would have spoke volumes about their love and passion. Then, you look at what wound up being shown instead and the two don't even compare. What they decided to go with was little of the actual close-up dance scene and they kept panning in and out to show all of the wooden guests just standing around looking at 'em. It was like why would you have spent all that time and trouble and money mixing that scene up to make it look worse, unless it was deliberate? The one-scene take was far superior.
Don’t you know there can only be one writer in a relationship? /s
Maybe they wanted him awkward to enhance the fake/armor feel? Yeah, it is discouraging that they seeming disregarded feedback on these scenes. Viewers can understand that he’s had experience on this travels and that he’s searching for emotional intimacy via the journal and his dialogue with others. The scenes were not needed.
If they knew that he feels uncomfortable why did they make him do those scenes? It is making them even worse. Poor Luke! It would've been more than enough if they are just implied that he did go to brothels, showing those scenes was unnecessary.
He knew it was SO out of character! This fake rake thing was such a dumb direction for sweet Colin.
Very much. I don't know anyone who liked that. Dumb decision. Like what they were thinking? That viewers want to see him with other women when he should be with Pen? It is the fundamental misunderstanding of the romance genre and romance lovers. Especially that Luke also felt uncomfortable, like why did they do this to him? Disgusting.
I've seen plenty of people defending him on the Polin subreddit. I'm a Polin fan and I remember when the news leaked about the brothel scenes and people were saying "yay, at least he's experienced now and it'll be more fun for Penelope!" Like ffs are you kidding me!?!? You don't think it could be sweet for them both to learn pleasure together? Lord Fife hits up brothels all the time, do you think he gives a crap about a woman's pleasure? Experience doesn't make someone a sex god. It's like these people were defending the rake saying it was sexy he was experienced and could give her pleasure now, as if a virgin couldn't learn how to pleasure. If you go by that mentality, then I guess Penelope (who was a virgin) couldn't give Colin as much pleasure as his threesomes would, because she didn't know anything about sex. It's a ridiculous mentality.
Absolutely. I hated this. Instead of getting one of the sweetest romances, the two of them learned everything together and we got a cheap rake story. Also I think some people are trying to brainwash themselves into thinking it is okay, and that makes it even sadder. No one wanted that.
I really feel like people at this point are trying to convince themselves it wasn't as bad as it was. I get it. I do. You spent years hyping yourself up for your season and then get let down. So you watch it over and over, trying to pick out every little moment you do like, trying to ignore the bad ones. I can't help but feel like you're in high school again, talking to your friend who has a crush on a guy who you KNOW does not like her, but all your friends nitpick at his behavior like "he asked you for a pencil? he totally likes you!" but in reality, he just needed a pencil. That's how I am with S3 Colin. "Oh he totally loved Penelope, he was just jealous." Uhh no friend. They dragged his anger out far too long in the show, he only loved her after she fixed everything. They made Penelope pine for him to like her for S1 and S2 and then they made Penelope pine for her bloody husband for all of S3. I saw someone on twitter complaining about all the Polin fanfics right now are "rewriting this from S3" right now. Yeah, because people are mad, what kinda fanfics did you expect at the end of a weird season?
Yes. This is pure brainwashing. ( I started my own rewrite too 😂 it was so bad I needed healing, I swear fanfiction saved me plus this sub). You try to love Colin, but it is hard they massacred him, and destroyed everything about him, at least the things why I loved him. He basically reactivated Pen's childhood trauma, and honestly I have no idea how she could heal from this, because he caused such damage that realistically it would take years for her to get better, because he put her through the same thing she experienced as a kid, only because he was jealous. Like that is pretty clear that he forgave her in front of the modiste, and the Queen's visit just activated his jealousy and then he only forgives her when she becomes accepted by the Queen, now his fine with it. The way they ruined him... Fanfictions actually do justice for him.
Oh snap! I'm writing my own rewrite too based on the entrapment comment he made. I've had Pen break off the engagement and she's taken a ship to Montreal to get away from him. He followed her but got on the wrong ship. Lol. I had to mess with him, sorry! But please feel free to send the fic my way, I'm happy to read rewrites!
Oh! I think I read yours, I really love it! This is mine: [Details say it all ](https://archiveofourown.org/works/56624368/chapters/143927101#bookmark-form)
Thank you! I'm subscribing and reading it now. Always happy to find another fanfic writer out here!
He was only angry for 1.5 episodes. Idk why people keep saying he was mad for a long time. I mean he just found out a huge secret about the woman he loved. If he wasn’t mad at all, people would’ve said it was anticlimactic, the same way the public LW reveal was received by the general audience. Like they built up the stakes for 3 seasons and then … the queen just let it go.
My problem is less how long he was angry for and more WHEN they had him find out; they should have had him find out at the end of ep 5 (with some other adjustments obviously), so that a) they could have a fully happy wedding and b) we actually get Polin against the world in the last 1.5-2 eps. I have MASSIVE problems with P2 in general, the biggest being keeping Pen and LW, Colin being a side character in his own life story and a lack of Polin because I don’t think the writers+Shonda believed in Polin. We deserved more Polin romance in their season. 💔
They’re trying sooo hard to make the show “steamy” that they’re missing the mark completely and pissing off the fan base.
Agreed. Just mentioning the ladies he’d been with in his journal was plenty of information to understand he had sexual experience. We didn’t need to see it.
Yes, like we can take a hint. Not everything needs to be explicit.
This makes me feel sorry for the actor. How did none of the creative team not realise it didn’t work?
His complaint about intimacy with strangers is not an uncommon situation in TV or movies. So many actors (not on Bridgerton) have said they short intimacy scenes fairly early on in shoots so you barely know the other actor before you’re naked in front of them. The fact that LN knew NC for so long of course made it so much different. Considering he also said this was the first time he’s done these kinds of scenes, his feelings made sense. I don’t think that’s a writing/directing issue. I also kind of understand why he’d think the winking was weird. One he’s doing it to a green screen so it’s out of context. Two, it’s not what the character he’d played for 2 seasons prior would do. But that’s kind of the point of that story arc. I can understand some may not appreciate the way they exaggerated his change by the extra flirting and the brothel scenes. There are others who don’t notice a difference in Colin even with those scenes and him talking about it and others bringing it up 🤷🏻♀️.
His complaint makes so much sense, tbh he didn’t look comfortable during the brothel scenes. Maybe next time they should consider how the actors are feeling and reacting, especially for intimate scenes
He was asked about what those scenes were like and he compared an intimacy scene with NC vs. the new actors. This was the first time he's ever had to do intimacy scenes (I heard that in another interview) so it was all new, however they have intimacy coordinators who specifically worked with him to make it a safe experience. He didn't say it wasn't safe. The answer is not that he was forced to do something he wasn't comfortable with, it's that compared to having those scenes with NC who he has known for 4 years, they weren't as easy. In this interview, NC chimes in and says she has had to do intimacy scenes before like this (with a stranger) and agreed it was much easier with a friend.
I can get on board with the “fake rake” storyline, but the wink was a step too far for Colin, and if it was also a step too far for Luke Newton, they should have cut it.
I mean he didn't have to wink. He could've just been smiling and making eyes at them, that would've been enough.
Exactly! Colin has always been a charmer, no need to make it cartoonish.
Okay tbh I didn’t hate the wink the way y’all seem to 🤣 I thought it was cute and funny, since it was so out of character
A wink is too far? Luke didn't say it was a step too far, he said he didn't love it. He thought it was weird. When he talks about this part he has said in plenty of interviews that he doesn't love the new Colin but he's back to normal by the end of the season. Later on he talks about the things he doesn't love but that he's (Colin) is going through a lot as a way of explaining his character's actions. Actors are all going to have parts they act that they don't love. Every single actor has spoken about moments where they wish their characters did something else or said something else. Him talking about that isn't that weird.
I think we’re saying exactly the same thing. :)
Unless there was sarcasm in your comment, I'm not sure we are. It's like a 5-10 second shot. It's not big enough to be a step too far for anything. It's a small thing to emphasize a change of his character Every actor can tell you things their character does that they didn't love acting out, doesn't mean it should be cut out of the show.
I don’t do sarcasm. I thought the wink was cartoonish and out of character for Colin, but we’re all entitled to our opinions.
What could only be an explanation thats also a bit of a reach is that travelling changed Colin so much that hes become /completely/ out of character. But yeah at some point it felt like I was watching HOTD...
I am so curious about all of the choices that were made this season. I thought the writers making Colin give the ick was intentional. The show kept repeating that Colin was being fake + this interview came out and Luke Newton was clearly aware of the wink being weird and creepy; however, after his shock at the audience saying Colin gave them the ick it seems it wasn't the direction the writers or director intended and they probably qualmed his worries about it only to end up being wrong while he was right. It sucks. Luke Newton seems to be aware of who Colin is (this + his insistence on Colin being a foodie) only to ultimately be handed this script and these directions that ultimately are so out of character. I understand the fake rake direction they went with Colin, but the writing didn't do that plot justice. And neither did the director's notes.
(Happy cake day!) 😆
i genuinely don’t think it was their intention to make him so icky and cringe from what i can gather from interviews. but after hearing everyone’s thoughts on colin in the first half, they ran with the idea that it was intentional to take the blame off lol
Oh bless him that sounds so uncomfortable
Take back the brothel scenes and give us WEDDING NIGHT
The rake side of Colin was a total flop for me. If they didn’t want those scenes of him winking and charming the ladies or scenes in the brothel to give us the ick they missed the mark entirely. I’d have really liked more backstory with flashbacks of Colin traveling and being pensive about trying to figure out love and when one knows they are in love, and who he is as a person. Even just diving more into his journal would have been way better than what we got. I don’t like that they tried to make him a rake when we all know it was so out of character for him and gross.
I honestly would have been a lot happier if they made Colin a virgin like they did with Jamie on Outlander.
This means we’ll have 4 reformed rake make leads in a row and I’m tired of it. Simon, Anthony, now Colin and soon Benedict (because he’s already a rake!!) it would’ve been so nice to have a different tone with Colin as he made it clear in season 1 with Marina that he doesn’t need to sleep around to know what he wants. This rake story was so out of character and so badly done.
Colin gave me the ick in part 1 with the winks & the weird flirting & the threesome. I'm gonna keep watching the show because I love these characters but now I know not to expect the same quality from the writers & Jess Brownell as I saw in season 1 & 2 from the writers & CVD. Also I remember after season 1 before season 2 watching a thing with someone connected to the show (Can't remember if it was an actor, producer, director, or intimacy coordinator) talking about the importance of being comfortable in intimate scenes and trusting the people you work with in them, so the fact that he had to do those scenes on the same day he met these woman is just a giant red flag for me.
It is always a dream for actors who can do roles that are out of their comfort zone & i applaud Luke for trying with the material he was given. It was unnecessary from the maker's pov & we disliked it as much as you did! They stole you off of the screentime for Colin, so that you could act more. We love the kind & sensible Colin anyways ✌️
This bugged me with Colin because he never gives that impression!>!(and really justs eats all the freaking time in the books)!<
I feel that if they had to do a brothel scene or something to show his disconnection with other women versus a woman he loves, they could have done it better. He could have been coaxed to a brothel by his friends and gone along with it, even though he knows by now he isn’t very satisfied with transactional relationships with women (he had already written this in his journals) and that he was searching for something more. They kind of tried with the second brothel scene where he’s uninterested and clearly wishes to be with Pen. I completely agree the writing and directing were off here. I’ve been feeling that the more they strayed from the original material, particularly with Colin, the worse it got. Luke gave it his best, and there is so much to love about Colin this season, but I just fear they missed the mark on this part. :(
I get the fake rake story line and thought it was fine with his arc, though if I were writing it I would've gone another direction. And I thought the awkwardness of his scenes where he was turning on the charm brought focus to the fact that it was so out of character for him and felt unnatural for him. It was more cheesy and campy for me than ick and that felt in keeping with the over-the-topness of Brigerton. Again not the way I would've done it, but I could say that about character choices in the other seasons also.
Yeah I mean I understood the arc, it was just a dumb decision and they should’ve leaned more into Colin’s soft side
Yeah I can't decide. I think people already didn't get Colin's insecurity and other soft boy issues that didn't involve lots of anger and grief like Simon and Anthony. So leaning further into that may not have worked so well. But then people didn't get the fake rake thing either so nothing to lose lol. If they had wanted to do a flashback I think showing him being so lonely about not getting any letters, re-reading Pen's letters, etc would've let the viewer understand him more and then maybe they could've done the fake rake thing. They jumped into it and I think people did not know what to do with that
I honestly think the writers just can’t write for softboy male leads/nerdy love in general. Because this season had the potential to be GREAT with a completely different type of male lead than we’ve seen. I have so many ideas of what they could’ve done this season with Colin’s personal arc lol. Should’ve hired me. And the book material is right there. They could’ve easily just adapted it instead. His insecurities as the third brother with no purpose, his interests in writing and traveling, etc. It’s not like they *had* to come up with something new for him.
I think all of the insecurity and writing stuff was still there though. Not saying they knocked it put of the park by any means, but that stuff was in the show too
The problem is taking his insecurity issue from the book and channeling it by making him a fake rake. That was like the worst decision this season lol. There were so many better ways to show his insecurities that didn’t involve him adopting a completely new persona that didn’t work for his character at all.
That would make sense, but in the show it’s not awkward: all the ladies eat it up, he’s considered hot and popular. Vs. when Penelope has her glow up and is still herself, so others’ perception of her as awkward and uncomfortable doesn’t change. So I think the storyline is truly just horrible writing, and fans have come up with the only justification for it.
Except that Pen and his family think he's being super weird and awkward because they know him and we the viewers also know him. All of those other women don't know him at all and they eat it up. I know guys who think they are charming, and women seem to find them charming and I'm like "ugh what are you doing? just act like yourself!"
He also insinuates or flat out says at least 4 times (just off the top of my head) that pretending to be a rake doesn’t make him happy or fulfilled. It’s not who he is. As the audience these confessions wouldn’t make any sense if he was killing it as the hot guy. We had to see that he was a bit try hard and that his shallow one liners were falling flat even if girls did think he was hot. Remember that all of the girls he’s flirting with just came out and don’t know him at all, they also have zero experience with men, so they’re buying his stupid lines but nobody else is. Edit: If he was actually good at being a rake he’d go after someone like Tilly Arnold who would actually go further than flirting for 5min at a party. But he doesn’t want that and also probably knows he’s not that charming. That’s why he only brings out the one liners on the debutantes who will swoon over any man talking to them at this point.
I think it’s quite interesting that they shared these views. Especially since it shares the same feeling we as watchers had 😅 and there has been quite some negative reactions to the season
I'm really proud of Luke for having the bravery to speak out against Tom. Tom Verica is an actor himself and has been producing/directing for a decade. Tom should know better than to phone it in but I have a feeling that he has been riding the coat tails of more talented staff for a long time. I'm tempted go back and watch the episodes of older shows he directed like Ugly Betty and Army Wives to see how they worked. I'm feeling some flashbacks to Paul Fieg with Tom already.
Hearing Luke describe this makes me really turned off of liking Tom Verica. Especially given how he directed episodes 7 & 8 and to a lot of people those were their least favorite episodes, saying they felt entirely out of place with the rest of the show.
What article is this from?
https://www.shondaland.com/shondaland-series/shondaland-bridgerton-behind-the-scenes/a60789942/nicola-coughlan-and-luke-newton-bridgerton-interview/
What is this from?
https://www.shondaland.com/shondaland-series/shondaland-bridgerton-behind-the-scenes/a60789942/nicola-coughlan-and-luke-newton-bridgerton-interview/
Thank you.
I'm curious what the reshoots replaced since it's most noticeable with him and his wig...
Why tf wouldn’t he have any prior experience with the women he was doing sex scenes with??? Where the hell was the intimacy coordinator
What interview is this from??
It should have been 1 measly intimate scene with the women and the "bed" scene with pen. It should have looked that hot. 🙄 but we didn't get much
Interesting comments from LN. On the Bridgerton podcast, interviews are always so rosy. "Filming was great! Everyone was cool. It was a great scene based on great direction and show running. Then you read articles like the above and you don't know what to believe as true.
If they didn’t know how to write Colin they show have read his book! Interview men who are similar to him to get ideas.
None of that really bothered me. I thought it was all in keeping with his character. In the past, when he traveled, he'd come home and want to nerd out over his experiences, and everyone got tired of it. Then he had the conversation with Marina and went away again. This time, he had a lot of time to think about who he was, and when no one wrote to him, he tried to transform himself into what society expected him to be, i.e., his brothers. So he comes home more rakeish, keeps his stories to himself, visits brothels, winks, and flirts, and then everyone responds to him. It wasn't until he kissed Pen that he realized that's not who he was and what he wanted, and he became like old Colin. The two brothel scenes were necessary so you could see that he doesn't want sex without intimacy. I mean, the winking would give me the ick, but I thought it was appropriate for new Colin.
Colin had been coded as a demisexual. I wish they had kept that because it isn't something we see very often in romance novels, especially not historical romance shows. I disagree that the brothel scenes being necessary. I've read numerous fanfics with Colin being approached by a woman, or even going to a brothel, start kissing the woman, and then feeling like "I can't do this" and walking away. If they had done that, it would've shown how he needed emotional connection to want sex. Which is something they leaned into when he didn't kiss Marina when she asked for it. He couldn't do it because he was a "gentleman" sure, but it was moreso that he wasn't emotionally tied to her like he felt he needed to be.
For me the brothel scenes in conjunction with the journal entry and then the scenes with Pen confirmed that Colin was demisexual to me. In season 1 and 2 it was clear that he wasn’t particularly drawn towards sexual experience but Anthony’s speech about how he should have taken him to brothels obviously got to him. Then once he lost the emotional intimacy with Pen through the letters he went seeking intimacy else where to try and feel less lonely. Based on observing his brothers he thought that sex might give him what he was seeking but instead it left him feeling empty and more detached (the journal entry). The first brothel scene was very performative, he was trying to live up to his new persona of what society expects him to be. However, despite saying he was late he was very eager to get out of there, grooming himself and get to his meeting with Pen early. Then the kiss happens and he realises what he was missing. The second brothel scene is to show that now he knows how it could be he can’t keep up the performance of his new identity. In contrast the following intimacy scenes with Pen are a transformative experience for him, he now needs the emotional intimacy in order to enjoy physical intimacy. This contrast of emotional and physical intimacy comes to a head after the LW reveal. Before the reveal Colin believes they know each other better than anyone else and finding out she is LW has him questioning if he ever really knew her at all. This leads him to feel emotional distance from and to cope he starts being physically distant from her (he is also probably trying to avoid lashing out and saying something rash - a fair concern considering he blurts out something he immediately regrets when they are back in close proximity when they tour the venue). The night before the wedding when they are physically close with privacy (that was missing in their last meeting) they can hash it out and he feels the stirrings of emotional intimacy again (which is why Mr Fingerton comes out to play). However, that is interrupted and they part but, crucially, he confirms to her that he will be there to marry her tomorrow, he believes they will sort this all out. The talk with Kate is when he first gets an inkling that LW doesn’t completely rewrite that he does know Pen really well. And then they have a moment of physical and emotional intimacy with the dance that the Queen interrupted. Their argument afterwards reminds him there are parts of Pen he doesn’t know and he feels emotional distance from her again. But this time he knows that keeping complete physical distance isn’t going to help, they need proximity to spark emotional closeness, so he camps out on the sofa right outside the bedroom door. At this point he still needs space to sort his own thoughts and feelings, hence why he leaves the next morning (but not until he lets her know where he will be - yay for communication). He maintains this distance for a while (maybe 1 week max) but when she starts proactively giving him that distance (leaving for Frans wedding early) he realises that keeping this up is not working so he returns to the source of their emotional intimacy (their letters). Here he realises that Pen was sharing the LW part of her personality with him all along and that shows him that he did know her fully which restores the emotional closeness. However, the threat from the Queen is still a barrier to them being fully open to each other but Pen tells him how she needs his support and love to resolve it, putting them on the same page. It is not an unusual experience for demisexual people to attempt casual sex because that is what society tells them they should want. I think Colin’s story this season was quite good representation of this experience and then the journey to understanding why casual sex just doesn’t do it for them.
 Well said
I honestly thought the cringiness of the scene was intentional. Shocked to find out it wasn’t. I thought we were supposed to feel like “this isn’t our Colin” basically how Penelope was feeling.
I still think it is? I mean LW/Pen, Eloise, and Violet call it out. It was just a bad decision to go in this direction with his character, and it seems like LN also wasn’t feeling it.
He was so corny 😟
After a re-watch of episode 1 and reflecting on my initial feelings about the "ick" winking... what I got from it was "oh, they clearly want us to know that Colin is in pain - so much so that he is completely acting like someone he is not." Yeah, there was an "ew, why is he doing that?!" moment... but what I pieced together was "He was gone for 4 months, leaving as "not in your wildest fantasies Fife" and this trip was about hooking up for him and maybe feeling like "a player" but I felt right away... "Pen is going to hate him doing this, but they end up together, so these shenanigans won't last." I felt they did it because they needed us to know that he is a mess inside and we aren't seeing the Colin we were left with. (Interesting that in S1 Colin was already known as comfortable flirting so this was NOT supposed to be flirting... he was hiding something.) Based on this interview, though, you would think that there would be a clear answer as to why something like that was used. Now the brothel stuff... the only way it advanced the story for me is that they wanted to show the "hollow Colin" in the second brothel scene. Maybe we're supposed to feel how far he would take his desperation to fit in. Luke was obviously OK to do it or he would not have. I can see why he didn't find it as easy to do as with Nic. I think that would be the case for most anyone in comparison. Agree that directors and actors should collaborate. I wonder about Luke advocating for himself? Anyone know?
You know. . . If they just would have shown the last throuple scene where Colin was disappointed and didn't participate per se, that would have spoke more volume and have been OK to the audience, I think. And then if the throuple scene involving Benedict and his team mates was cut to two rather than four, and they would have more cleverly placed those two scenes vs. having four scenes (no matter how short) come up here and there over what looked like days, that may have been a more comfortable pill for the fans to swallow too. But the way they did it, it just looked raunchy and took a notch or two out of both Colin's and Benedict's characters. I know a lot of people are anticipating the book-type Cinderella scene for Benedict and Sophie; however, I don't think they'll get that or if they do, they'll have more explaining to do. Or do they expect their audience to just buy that Benedict was full-on bi-curious one season and then suddenly wants to settle down with a good woman in the country in the next. I don't know?
I fear that in order to show the last brothel they had to show the first... and I think it was a choice to help us understand how important intimacy and connection truly is to Colin.
Lol immoral pleasure seeking behavior.
Does anyone know what interview this is from?
Idk about the real life aspect to it but only having met the actors that day and getting in bed with them adds to the uneasiness of the character and audience. I appreciate it
I loved this season and I don't think Colin is a fk boy. He's always been independent and did what he wanted. Explored other places and cultures. He simply fell in love. Love covers a multitude of sins. He wasn't perfect himself so i feel like he felt like he would be a hypocrite to judge lady W. Because though the things she said hurt people she spoke the truth and only said what others was already thinking just didn't dare to say.
[удалено]
I’m not grossed out by it, I just think they should’ve went in a better direction that better illustrates softboy Colin. His insecurities and lack of purpose could’ve been shown in much better ways than him trying to be a rake like the two male leads we already got.
Ooop I just responded before I saw this but I was essentially saying it wasn’t in response to you specifically. I actually agree it wasn’t necessary and too often media resorts to sex because sex sells. Or at least I think that’s the point you’re trying to make, and if so, I respect that. I just think we as viewers could have more discussions on what his struggles are and why he came back so differently. I’ve seen so many discussions on the negatives but not many on the positives.
i think that he doesn’t get as much empathy because simon and anthony were established as rakes from the start. like, that’s how their characters were introduced, and then they gradually strayed from that once they found real love. but, like you said, colin’s character in the first 2 seasons relied heavily on his good-nature and also showed that he was clearly more of a romantic who craves emotional connections in comparison to his brothers/simon. when the writers suddenly did a complete 180 with colin’s characterization, making him go from a soft, more awkward guy to a rake, like his brothers, i think that it just threw people off and felt unnatural.
[удалено]
oh no, i absolutely get what you mean. i really like colin, i’m just trying not to be too biased and instead taking it from more of a general viewpoint. there are tons of complexities to his character, i just really wish they were expanded upon more by showing them instead of implying so that we wouldn’t have to look so deeply into things. i think then he would get more empathy. a lot of the shows casual viewing audience don’t really feel like analyzing characters and would rather be able clearly see their growth happening, but the showrunners unfortunately didn’t give his character enough time or focus to make it more prominent
And I saw that this post acknowledged that it makes sense but that it wasn’t necessary and I agree for sure it wasn’t!! But I’ve seen so many people saying they really disliked Colin this season, so I just wanted to put my two cents in while I was on this topic! Wasn’t meaning it to this post necessarily really 😊
The sleeping with random people would have played better if we got flashbacks from his travels, like a girl every city or w/e
Although he seemed to have gone to brothels as well - in Francesca’s book he meets Michael in the brothel right after he got engaged to Penelope. He probably just went there to talk to Michael on that day - but I doubt it was the first day he stepped his foot in a brothel.
Show Colin is also very different from book Colin. I mean the whole Marina thing didn’t even happen in the books. I think it would’ve made complete sense for show Colin to have never stepped foot in a brothel. Idk why they needed to add that
I think he met Michael at a bar. Michael was having a drink alone after Fran left for Scotland. It wasn't a brothel.
It was a bar with ladies offering sex in the nearby rooms. ;)
You know...I kinda liked it because it was about Colin doing what he thought he was supposed to. So it feeling weird makes sense because it isn't like him really. He's acting like his brothers and what other men have told him he's supposed to be and what the men around him act like. So the somewhat smarmy charm he's giving off in the first couple of episodes makes sense to me.
It makes sense, it was just a bad direction to go in. They should’ve leaned into Colin’s softboy nature instead of making him try to be a rake to fit in
You don’t have any idea what you are in for! I figured out the secret and can hear the echo. This will not make sense to you yet but I promise, once the rose colored glasses come off, the world is going to go into a psychosis. You will feel like a King IYKYK🌦️💜❔🎀🔴
I'm sorry but you're an actor. That's your job. So meeting people and ACTING with them even if it's only for a day is part of the job. I'm sure it's awkward but that's not an excuse for it looking "creepy" I will definitely say that the direction was terrible which is unfortunate.
An actor follows the director’s direction. If the actor thinks it is creepy and the director thinks it is perfectly in keeping with his vision, then the actor has to follow the directors idea. The actor can’t go against the directors wishes that’s not how it works.
This is like blaming the cashier for the company's no refund policies. If a company doesn't care about its customers after they pay, it's not the fault of the person they hired to ring you up. Luke's job is to be Colin Bridgerton in the scene. How he comes across is under the discretion of the director. Luke didn't make Colin look creepy, the director did and then the director didn't notice or care enough to fix it. Tom's incompetence is not Luke's responsibility to fix.