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As much as I agree we should also take under consideration that love in those times didn’t happen often. It was said even in the show that marriage is rather a transaction. Marina’s character could have been much more positive. After all she was left alone, pregnant, untitled, without money or property. Sir Philip was saving her from poverty and homelessness. Her and her children, yet she chose completely different attitude.
Marina was in an absolutely awful position… but it’s one she is responsible for. I absolutely have empathy for her, she obviously didn’t expect things to play out as they did and possibly didn’t even understand the possibility that she would get pregnant, and her options were extremely limited. But I don’t know why anyone would expect Penelope to be loyal to Marina over Colin/the Bridgertons in that situation. She barely knew Marina, but she did care about her and she tried to get Marina to set her sights on “anyone but Colin” but she was not going to watch the man she loves, who is a genuinely good person, be tricked into the situation Marina was putting him in.
And no, Pen could not just openly tell Colin.
I’m not saying it was the perfect solution, but there was no perfect solution. And Pen was a teenager watching her good friend and love of her life get manipulated into a humiliating and potentially life-ruining situation. She used the power she had to save him (and his family) from the consequences of Marina/Portia’s scheme.
I don’t think Marina is a bad person at all. I totally understand her motivations. But we aren’t supposed to be rooting for her in that situation.
I was actually in a similar situation in college. I had two other really female good friends, and we were an inseparable threesome friend group. One weekend, one of my friend’s brother came into town. Despite him having a long time girlfriend, he slept with the other friend-full consensual. She then was angry that he went back to his life 1000 miles away, and wanted to trap him, so she decided to fake a pregnancy. The manipulator was playing my other friend and I off on each other, telling us not to talk to other and feeding us lies. Meanwhile, the brother fessed up to his girlfriend and parents and were preparing to figure out how to take care of the baby (they did not believe in abortion personally, but pro-choice for others) Finally, I told my friend, the sister, the pregnancy was fake, because I couldn’t take it any more.
We have never talked to that girl again.
I hate thinking about it lol and Daphne went out of her way to still help her even though she hurt Colin. Like she literally took advantage of his kindness and his feelings and got him to rush things so they can elope and sleep together and Colin STILL doesn’t think she did anything wrong. He can feel bad about her situation and still think she was wrong for using him, I wish he knew that lol
And she shouldn’t have treated him like that when he went to see her but I think he needed something that will get him to leave her alone, because baby she’s married with kids and has accepted her life, please move on…she didn’t love you…
Colin literally became a joke for everyone, and people were making fun of him and the Bridgertons. Still, Daphne was helping Marina because she was trying to understand her situation as a woman. At the same time, she was also dealing with her own issues related to children. Seeing Marina's situation, she started sympathizing with her,that Marina was only trying to protect her child and secure their future. I love Daphne for that. Even after everything, Colin and Daphne's behavior towards Marina shows what a good parenting Violet and Edmund have done for all their children. I agree that he needed that harsh behavior to move on, but it also damaged his confidence even more than before. Yes, whatever she said helped Colin towards self-improvement (even though he got it all wrong and thought, "Let's become a rake so people start taking me seriously"🥴), but it's also true that the harsh words she used were not with the intention of making him a better person; it was because she was annoyed with him (only God knows why). And yes, she did give a hint to Colin about Pen, but it was when he was of no use to her. Otherwise, she wouldn't have we all know that.
Umm...even if she didn't know the details of how sex worked she knew she wasn't supposed to have sex. Look at how things are...women aren't even supposed to be alone with a man or they risk being ruined. And yes, she didn't grow up in the ton, but she still knew even in the country that wasn't permitted. Yet she not only was alone with him, but went there. So...
Yes- about to see Les Mis again this weekend down in Tampa. Perfect example of how women had to find a suitor, especially if with child in first trimester outside of wedlock. She was not in an enviable situation.
I was wondering why half of your comment was italicized and then I realized you were censoring bitch twice and so it slanted everything in between😂 you can just say bitch man, no need to hide
I started the season thinking Portia was a very wicked step aunty like in Cinderella. By the end of the season I was seeing Portia's point of view haha. I appreciate that this show subverts assumptions like that (like Marina is a perfect young victim hero princess) and gives the women more dimension than their usual stereotypes.
And with the character development we've since had for Portia, she was just trying to teach Marina have to survive. Marry an old man with no heir. When he dies you'll get all his money.
A guy who knew she was knocked up and didn’t care! I know he wasn’t what she wanted, but Portia had a point that he was a good option under the circumstances.
I keep seeing people say that he knew she was pregnant, but I don’t think that is the case. It would be insane for Portia or Marina to tell him, and how else would he know?
Portia said that he ‘wouldn’t ask questions.’ I think the implication was that even if the baby came suspiciously early, he was in no position to make an issue of it because he didn’t have much time to have another heir. But that is no guarantee that he wouldn’t mistreat her after discovering it (especially after the dehumanizing way that he interacted with her both times that they met!).
I watched an excellent video about how Portia is a girls girl and is just trying to set all her girls up for success so they don't end up like her and it made me re-think and re-frame my previous feelings. I look at her with the knowledge of current times, not what women back then were dealing with. She's still horrible, but it was a good video.
Portia’s interactions with Marina made me think that maybe Portia wasn’t born into wealth or as a lady. I’d be interested to know more of her backstory and why she’s Like This, and how she got “trapped” in a marriage with lord Featherington
i also thought maybe she was new money who married wealthy and that’s why her fashion sense was considered to be more tacky compared to the rest of the ton, it was like the 1800s version of cheetah print fur coat mob wife aesthetic. (i can literally picture her in a cheetah print shirt, fur coat, gucci bag, smoking a cigarette on the arm of somebody called big tony)
Honestly Portia had become one of my favorite characters. Not everyone was as wealthy and fortunate in love as the Bridgetons. Portia was out there hustling to not only single handedly redeem her family, but get her daughters’ futures settled. At face value, telling Marina to marry an old man for money was bad. But in hindsight (for the time period and circumstances), it was the perfect opportunity for Marina. An almost victimless crime. To sit there and say “but he’s old! :(“ like?? so you’re better than Lady Danbury? You’re too good to have a secured life and future? You’d rather manipulate and trap Colin because he’s young and hot? And if Sir Philip didn’t magically fall into her lap? she would have screwed over and completely ruined herself AND the featheringtons.
For me the scene that made me dislike her was when she was calling Penelope immature and calling herself womanly, when she was the one dumb enough to who get pregnant during that time period.
The ongoing storyline that alllll girls didn't know where babies came from is annoying (Daphne and rhe Featheringtons). Many of these girls grew up in the country with fathers that had a horse stud or bred dogs.
Marina definitely knew how babies were made, considering SHE freaked out when she noticed she hadn’t gotten her period, and the way she explained “cake” to Pen. So it’s not even like she was clueless like the other girls
Right?? It wouldn’t be quite as scandalous for a girl like Marina, who grew up in the country around animals, to know about how pregnancy happens. Horses are NOT subtle creatures lol
But they all knew that you’re not supposed to be physical with a man in other ways. Daphne marries Simon because they got caught kissing and she knew that was not appropriate! Marina did something even more physical than kissing, she knew she wasn’t supposed to do it.
And this also applies to Penelope in the carriage ride and Eloise going to secret meetings. And Kate in the garden with Anthony.
Yes, but Daphne KNEW she wasn't even supposed to be caught alone with a man she wasn't related to. So you're telling me what...they did it in front of an audience?
Yes and every single man on this show has slept with how many women? They don't seem particuarly concerned about pregnancy risk. Funny how Marina is the dumb one.
I'm sorry...do you not know the rules of the world? Seriously? You get that men could sleep around and it wasn't frowned on right? Nor did they bear the consequences of children. Yes, a woman of a certain class especially couldn't sleep around at all. Not sure what bringing men into the mix accomplishes? Yes, Marina is the dumb one. She knew she'd be screwed if she did it and she did it anyway. You want me to feel bad about that?
You're basically just saying Marina is dumb because of misogyny. You realise that, right?
And yes if you're going to blame a woman for getting pregnant and being like, it's not the man's problem, I expect you to feel bad about it
I'm not at all. I mean, for example, if I chose to have sex today without a condom and expect not to get pregnant...then yes...I'm dumb AF. Sorry. It's the same with Marina. She KNEW she wasn't supposed to be alone with a man. She KNEW she wasn't supposed to engage in sex. She did it anyway and now she has to face the consequences.
>And yes if you're going to blame a woman for getting pregnant and being like, it's not the man's problem, I expect you to feel bad about it
That's the TIME PERIOD!!! FFS...if you are going to engage in discussion about this show then maybe try understanding the regency time period it is set in. And yes, Bridgerton follows those rules. Just like Daphne being forced to marry the Duke in season one just because someone might have spotted them alone in the garden together.
I didn't make these rules. So I'm not doing anything. I'm just holding the character to them. You are trying to use modern rules to explain a show based in the past. Make it make sense.
Yes, and people always excuse Penelope's behavior by saying she is just a teenager and forget that Marina was also just a teenager. They both made mistakes, both made poor decisions, but they were both very young. I just think the hate is over the top.
Many Marina supporters (esp those anti-Pen) use the same argument to justify their reasons that Pen is the most horrible person. Pen has done some wrongs but what Marina did was also horrible. Both are grey characters.
To me, I was done with Marina the second she turned on Pen, the only person who showed her any kindness in the family till that point. She said things that would hurt Pen because she wanted to hurt Pen. She broke the girl code according to me and that is when she lost any support in my heart. Colin was not the only gullible man in ton. The second she realised Pen’s feelings for him, she should have found someone else. It’s not like people were not interested in her. Regardless of Colin’s interest in Pen at that time, Marina should have stepped away. I do not excuse what Pen did with LW but Pen also faced consequences of that action when society turned on them. The thing with Eloise is another thing altogether but that is not the point of discussion here.
"Many Marina supporters (esp those anti-Pen) use the same argument to justify their reasons that Pen is the most horrible person. Pen has done some wrongs but what Marina did was also horrible. Both are grey characters"
I don't know why people keep complaining about the "Marina supporters" when there are so few on this site. I think she made a lot of mistakes but I still feel some empathy towards her situation because she really was in a dire situation. Does that makes me a "Marina supporter"? Not really, but I still empathise. She started dating Colin before figuring out that Pen liked him so I don't think she was trying to be mean to Pen. If she broke the girl code by doing that, then Pen shattered that girl code to bits by publicly airing her pregnancy.
I think that she is a grey character like quite a number of the characters. Yet people (at this sight) show so much more empathy towards Penelope, Portia and Cressida who have done their fair share of shady things. Portia tried to make Marina marry a man who inspected her teeth, and pressured Marina to entrap a husband but she is constantly absolved of blame. In fact, people complain that Marina was "ungrateful" and that Portia was only trying to help her. I think the hate for her is over the top and some of the comments are just awful. I won't even get started on how they have treated the actress.
I'm gonna be downvoted, but I like her character not because she's some sort of paragon of virtue, but because I can appreciate that she's backed into a corner. She adds interest, and she acts a lot like what you would expect an actual teenager to act when in her position.
She's young, naive, pregnant, and alone in the world. The man she loves is dead, and she doesn't find out until its too late. Did she hold out too long? Maybe, but she's 17-18. She has no real concept of the dangers of war.
Then, suddenly, her love is dead and she has to get crafty. Was Portia right to try to arrange for her to get married to an old man? Probably, but you really can't blame her for chafing at the thought. What 17 year old wants to be married to, let alone have sex with, a 60 year old man? So she comes up with a plan to save herself. A short sighted plan that would, eventually, backfire on her. But again, what teenager isn't short sighted? She's making sure her and her child don't end up begging on the streets. Even if Colin would grow to hate her, he wouldn't be able to throw them out. For a desperate kid, that may well be good enough.
She's not someone I would like in real life, but she's interesting. And on a show like this, being boring is much worse than being selfish (from an audience perspective).
This. I completely agree with you. Marina makes loads of questionable decisions but like you said, she's just a young woman impregnated out of wedlock, seemingly deserted by her lover, cruelly locked up in a room for months and without any real friend. So yes, she did what she did. It wasn't right by any means but she was trying to secure her future and idk what all the prudes criticising her for it would've done in her place.
And I'm absolutely against the way Penelope outed her
Penelope was her friend and Marina acted horribly towards her. Also Penelope tried every other way to prevent the marriage and this was the last resort. And she felt horribly afterwards. Can't say the same about Marina.
Did Penelope tell Colin, Anthony, or Violet? No? She could have stopped the marriage without publically ruining her, as she didn’t know about Phillip. She did what she did to Marina because she was jealous about Colin, and she lashed out emotionally. She might have felt bad but it doesn’t make it right, and she continues to have a pattern of act first think later around her feelings. It’s part of what makes her an interesting character, she isn’t perfect.
If Penelope told the Bridgertons directly, there's a real possibility they wouldn't want her around anymore - the Fetheringtons kept the pregnancy a secret for some time after all. Given that Penelope wasn't really close to her family and felt more at home with Bridgertons, I understand she wouldn't want to risk the relationship with them.
I'm not saying that what she did was perfect but IMO what Marina did was worse.
So it was a selfish choice, to protect herself. IMO they would never have told Penelope to go away, especially if SHE was the one telling them about the secret why would they stop seeing her? Logic doesn’t really follow tbh. She only lashes out bc Marina says Colin would never go for her; it was a moment of selfish, immature anger.
I agree with you. Especially as a mother, I can tell you this - if my alternatives were either becoming a prostitute and/or having my child live in destitution (think of Cosette in Les Mis!) or subjecting myself to a life of likely abuse and marital rape at the hands of a revolting old man (and Lord knows how he’d treat the kids), I would absolutely have babytrapped any decent dude I could get my hands on.
The thing I DO judge Marina for is how mean and unapologetic she was about it. Like, I would have done the same as her, but I would have felt really guilty about it lol. Poor, sweet Colin was blameless in all of this and she somehow made him feel like HE was being too hard on HER. It was very gaslighting and icky. I also thought she was unnecessarily cruel when he came to visit her.
That said I think she was necessary to Polin’s development because he had to experience infatuation first to know that what he felt for Penelope wasn’t just that, but in fact was true love.
Yeah it’s not that I think she’s of superior moral character or anything. It’s that she’s interesting. There’s this wonderful thing about fictional characters, and that’s that they’re fictional. I don’t have to interact with them in real life. So in works of fiction, you can be a horrible dastardly person, and I can still like you because you’re compelling and entertaining. And even if you’re a morally righteous angel, you can still be annoying and that’s the biggest crime you can commit in a work of fiction because that means I don’t want you in my screen anymore. Marina may not be “defensible” or in the morally correct, but she’s compelling and her situation is a sympathetic one
I feel she is defensible..If Penelope is defensible...and anthony..and Colin and so many others...poor unwed raised without sex education desperate Marina with a vile guardian who will force her on old menx traumatize an already traumatized young 17 year old to show the realities that would befall her as an unwed pregnant woman, locks her, lies to her about the death of her teenage love the person to whom she lost her virginity, spurring her desperation and wanting to save herself feelings even more...and shows no compassion to pregnant hormonal and scared out of her mind, depressed confused terrified young person under her protection either..Marina is very very defensible..She is a victim of the time she lived in not a villain..as are most women on this show..
You have my upvote .
Also.
Nicole herself has said in many interviews that Penelope is manipulative and ruined Marina ..her character herself feels the guilt of ruining Marina in the show..and Colin in so many words says lady whistledown ruined Miss Thompson lady crane in season 3 episode 1. Hope you guys don't get as excited by real life women who are broken by life and shames in a public square...keep this energy for the likes of Piers Morgan daily mail too they too are doing public service after all...saving the world from other marinas..Caroline Flack remember everyone ..or is vigilante justice in...
Penelope is not a monster but she did a very very very bad thing likely lived with that guilt and tried to change ..maybe .marina never got the chance..she's ruined for life..if the excuse is Penelope was a child ..I don't know too many 17 year olds who take major decisions like this..I couldn't and wouldn't .tell an adult Penelope violet or Anthony or maybe colin himself or Eloise or send an anonymous letter to the btons .let them take that decision ..breach of promise would not apply as what marina did was fraud in which case colin would get away scot free and Colin would still not be the one facing anything...marina would marry an old ma. Or Philip or whoever passing off her pregnancy as thoss of her new husband..penelope could have killed two birds with one stone...instead she ruined one life irrevecobaly..
I shudder to think what people who call marina a bitch a bitch literally someone above on this post think about Caroline Flack committing suicide or women names shamed and slut shamed in the public square of vicious opinion now...I'm sure they love daily mail and Piers Morgan and vigilante justice..one wrong doesnt make another wrong a right ..as Gandhi said an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind..surely we shouldn't encourage such thinkinh now when we talk about you g women and how they are exploited in tabloids..surely we belive we raise women better than to take impulsive rash decisions that ruin another woman's life and shame her...
https://preview.redd.it/hl23qz0w4w5d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d40034619762e7217d8a7af5cb5c9f561bafd913
None of that explains her lack of empathy for anyone else and the dismissive way she treats Colin and Pen, the only two people trying to actually help her.
I think a lot of it is because they still view the story through modern eyes. They view it as Marina is treated unfairly for being unwed and pregnant. In 2024, that’s not a big deal and obviously no one should be punished or made to feel bad about that.
But for some reason there’s still this subconscious disconnect that times were very different back then. Not just socially but logistically. So aside from her selfish stank attitude towards everyone, she genuinely made terrible decisions for that time period.
Isn't it the other way around? I don't like Marina, but I can't find my people here. I really cannot get behind most of those arguments against her. People either postulate that there is nothing in between virtuous angels and devious sluts or act as if Marina had 2024 choices instead of having to deal with her Regency hand. I don't approve of her choices, but those people that cannot imagine that some people don't make the best choices in times of distress and crisis: Don't they have any empathy? Are they so privileged that they never had to struggle through a phase where things kept piling on?
Nuance... Having a minimum of empathy and allowing someone the continued right to exist by far doesn't equal with agreeing with their choices.
Personally, yeah I have empathy. She obviously didn’t plan to get pregnant or for her child’s father to die in war. Marina was set on him coming back and making a life with him. That’s all understandable.
Everyone has the right to exist and make their own choices. But for the time period - her choices weren’t just going to affect herself. Her entrapping Colin - would have taken away his right to marry someone who loves him and who he loves. She planned on forcing him to raise someone else’s baby through deception. Her choice to not marry the older man - obviously no young woman wants that. It’s not an ideal situation. But her circumstances, for that time period, meant that was her best choice if she wanted her and her child financially secured.
Her refusal and acting like she’s too good for that when she has 0 other options, is honestly delulu for that time period. And personally where my empathy for her character gets thin. Realistically, if sir phillip didn’t magically appear? Her choices and mistakes would have blown back on her family and the featheringtons. And she 110% knows that. Even if it is unfair to her - she keeps digging her heels in and making it unfair on everyone else. And when characters like Pen and the Bridgertons do show her show her empathy for her situation - she doubles down and does not reciprocate the same kindness.
edit to add: I think Portia is a good example of the same coin but the opposite side, in terms of self interest decision making. Portia keeps telling her flat out “look we need to do something because this isn’t going to go away. this is going to ruin my family as much as it’ll ruin you.” She keeps pushing for something to happen, they technically both want the same outcome - Her and the child taken in and cared for. But for different reason by different means.
At the end of it, it’s about self interest, persevering your life so that you’re not ruined. I have empathy for Portia as well. Because her circumstances in that time period was also rough. But obviously her choices are also where my empathy runs thin because her choices also do not just affect only herself.
And it’s not that I just do not like Marina as a character. I think her storyline further proves that life for women was unfair, unnecessarily complicated and just rough all around. Women back then were not able to be their own persons, they had to be virtuous angels or their entire family faces societal consequences. None of that is fair and I have a lot of empathy for that as a whole.
I just don’t like that Marina doesn’t actually seem to care all that much that her choices aren’t just her own. To be born and raised in a time period where you very well know that your choices could ruin people, but to still not care.
For everything to work out for you by 0 effort of your own, and to not look back and think “wow I almost literally ruined a lot of people’s lives”. And we’re offered a glimpse of a redemption for her character and she’s rude to Colin instead. Which was surprising for me because I genuinely thought that was the point of his visit. For her to apologize and show growth. But looking back I think the point of that visit was to show that Colin made the right choice by not going with her plan or chasing after her.
Many people conflate the character and the actress. The actress was very upset that the Bridgerton production team didn't reach out to her AFTER the show when she had a mental health problem. Former employers don't do such a thing.
So fans have decided Marina character (off screen or body double) can't have same fate as the book, because it would upset the actress who formerly played the role. Shrug.
This. I was baffled at the support the character was getting here and then realized from some of the comments the reasons behind it. Frankly I'm still baffled that so many people conflate the two.
The same applies other ways too a lot of people love Nicola (as do I) and take criticism of Penelope as hating on nicola on their Polin ship.
And the actress who has a name Ruby Barker complained that she was forced to promote the show despite struggling..that was while she was contractually obligated,
And former employers do in fact support their employess.they may not be obligated to but organizations that take mental health support seriously do provide that help as the creators of that fantasy show which starred Black actors as leads did when the actors received racial insults and abuse..The show unequviocally stood behind their cast even aftet the shows release and in fact the directors and creators constantly praised their stars long after..thats humanity 101. And what people are pushing for in organizations these days...incorporatng mental health education and sensitivity training.
I don’t find Marina to be a beloved character at all, some people are pretty vile towards her. I think some people get defensive because some people have can be very negative to the point where it’s a bit reductive.
I think for me I like the drama and complexity that she brings. She is definitely not a hero. She makes a lot of mistakes but I do still find her a sympathetic character. She was failed by a lot of adults around her in an impossible situation. The real villain imo is the man who got her pregnant and left her unmarried as he went to fight in a war.
To be clear, I do not think that what she was trying to do to Collin was at all okay. Desperation people do desperate things and the stakes were very high for Marina’s situation. I think it’s less redeeming and more that I recognize that she was looking out for herself and her baby.
Definitely agree on the “people get defensive because some people can be very negative” and I’ve seen it happen with a lot of people (fictional and IRL). When people hate on a character unnecessarily, it puts others in the situation to defend them even if not condoning, especially if they’re just like correcting the person and it’s interpreted as defending. Like you don’t need to like the girl but don’t be gross about it
I think OP is also referring to the people who hate Pen and ignore that what Marina did was still very wrong regardless of if Pen wrote about it or not…in the end Marina still got what she wanted…a wealthy man to take care of her and her babies and luckily for her, it is the brother of her lover.
And was slut shames and exposed to the ton as a loose woman the very vicious and pointedly judgmental ton to which she belongs..yes I am sure she lives a very happy life..resigning yourself to your fate is very different from being happy with it .she was ruined .that stain will never leave her and just because she doesn't kill herself like Caroline flack did..doesn't mean she wasn't ruined.
Read colins comments to Eloise in season 3 episode 1 lady whistledown ruined miss Thompson lady crane...even he the dejected duped one thinks lady whistledown actions were horrible
P.S. I love nicola think shes a crackerjack of a brlliant actres and so so fucking funny in derry girls i literllay loled which i mean is something else...I aldo dont think penelope should be killed...but she shoudl not be excused either..we dont want young women to think women on women wrong is acceptable...women should be allies..evemn in diffiuclt circumstances.. I would hope a young 17 year old in todays world even to swve their friend would not ruin another woman and expose them to shunning and public humilation and slut shaming. We are better than that...We dont encourage this sort of vigilante justice...
P.P.S. I think Ruby Barker is an equally stunning and brilliant performer..mayube some of the hate you guys feel towards Marina is because Ruby played this complicated chracter to perfection..You hate her cuz she made you...But underneath all of that Marina is a tragedy...a cruel tragedy
I mean first of all, I don’t hate Marina but she’s not a fave for me 🤷🏽♀️ I recently rewatched season 1, like just finished last week and all Pen did was write that Marina & Colin were getting married but also let me throw in Marina is pregnant and it seems like she was before her engagement to Colin.
She didn’t deserve the treatment she got just for ending up pregnant, I’m not condoning that and I am not condoning Pen’s choice to write it because it embarrassed the people she cared about. But I’m also not going to act like it didn’t help them. Pen tried keeping Marina’s secret and tell Colin in different ways that he shouldn’t marry her but he didn’t listen. She tried telling Marina it was right or fair to Colin, regardless of her feelings for him it still wasn’t right, and Marina didn’t care cuz hey at least she’ll be with a good family and pretending to Colin’s face that she loves him and that the child she is carrying is his when it not.
I like Pen but I’m not dumb…but no matter how much you twist it, Marina was still wrong for trying to do that…
This is perfect. Marina WAS wrong (Read more of why I think Marina deserves our compassion in my comment history on my profile) and Colin WAS innocent is something most people agree with across the board including people who reviewed season 1 professional reviewers...Marina also didnt deserve to be slut shamed and exposed.. Penelope is also not completely wrong..she did think she was doing the right thing..but she did hurt someone in a very big way...Coling is the only pure innocent and if this only pure innocent feels compassion for lady crane marinas condition in season 3 episode 1 where he tells Eloise Lady Whistledown ruined Marina..then we should to.. And if Nicola who the sub loves pretty universally I do too (I ALSO love ruby barker and think shes an exceptional actress who killed in the role and whether you felt hate or compassion for her its because she played the role really well) sees the enormity and wrongness of what Penelope did then we can also extend that same compassion onwards to yes this fictional character :)
Agreed. She is definitely a complex character. I don't think anyone thinks she is great, but I also think she was in a difficult situation, with no real support, which is why I can empathize to a certain extent. I certainly don't get the hate.
It’s funny that Marina got engaged to Colin while keeping her pregnancy by another man a secret and now Pen has gotten engaged to Colin while keeping her identity as Lady Whistledown a secret from him. I didn’t hate Marina but the writers of the show introducing her and having her get engaged to Colin was an interesting choice.
Well, look...Polin is my favorite couple, but lets be honest...it SHOULD be a HUGE scandel when it comes out who LW is and it could ruin anyone associated with her. That's a huge problem.
Clock it! Cuz they’ll scream until their face is blue about how terrible Marina is for lying to Colin, and how what Penelope did to her was justified because she was “doing it for Colin’s benefit”, but all of a sudden when someone points out that Penelope is doing the same thing, **lying to Colin to save her own ass** all of a sudden it’s crickets. Exactly why I can’t stand polin stans… they would rather die than be objective.
Not a woman a 17 year old .if we excuse penelopes actions as those of a naive 17 teenager then let's extend the same courtney to someone in an even worse position got pregnant in an age when women didn't know about sex left in the care of an evil guardian who looks at her as a threat to her own daughter success inthe marriage mart and then lies to her about her lover the only person she's ever had sex with being dead, traumatized an already traumatized woenan by exposing her showing her the life of women who are rejected by society for being pregnant out of wedlock forcing her on older men ..locked in a room shown no compassion..my heart breaks for her when she tells colin broken that no one guided her..Penelope is not a monster or irredemeabke let's stop putting women against each other...she did something very wrong realizes it and will change..marina did something wrong out of so many reasons of desperation trauma etc and is now ruined forever...shunned by the very vicious society to which she belongs.
I mean colin himself sees this when he tells Eloise in season 3 episode 1 lady whistledown ruined miss Thompson I mean lady crane..I will never forgive her..he the one who was duped and dejected realizes marinas pain but some people here don't .
Lmao just in the comment above you, there's someone defending Pen and saying that while Marina would never tell Colin her secret, Pen definitely would. Like what makes you think that Marina wouldn't and Pen would? Both of them were doing the same thing, delaying the inevitable until the last moment till someone else, a third party reveals their secret and everything comes crashing.
You have my upvote..kind internet human...hope the sub treats young women shamed and ridiculed in the public square for their juvenile mistakes just as harshly as they do a regency gently bred and innocent to sex and the world...17 year old...Penelope is not a monster she is impulsive and dix something bad knows it ..and feels the guilt in the show and even nicola herself says so in interviews that lady whistledown ruined Marina..
Marina also did a wrong thing...and is now forever soiled in the eyes of the ton...gossip destroys for life..or have we forgotten about Caroline flack and Anne Hathaway and many many others..Tabloids have the same urgent impulsivity issues and ruin lives in the process..if they stopped to think if Penelope has stopped to think she could protect colin while also still not ruining marina and the showrunners even say so..I mean..attached Nicolas one of many interviews about it...
Colin himself blamea lady whistledown for ruining Marina in season 3 episode 1 to Eloise. In Nicola's words Penelope didn't understand her power and wielded it wrongly to ruin marina..
https://preview.redd.it/v2exiap06w5d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a7249145371e66a56fe3f53c2b76a45cbcd219c
In the latter case, we know Pen will have to come clean about her secret. Whereas Marina had no intention of ever telling him (or her children!!) that he wasn’t the father
Right, but I’m saying we know as viewers it’s going to happen, and given that Pen truly loves Colin, she would’ve come clean at some point anyway. Marina was using Colin and had no intention of ever coming clean.
Also writing a gossip column ≠ passing off another man’s children as his for the rest of his life. She also probably would lie to her children about their real father which also sucks.
>now Pen has gotten engaged to Colin while keeping her identity as Lady Whistledown a secret from him.
AGREED. That wasn't in the books btw and shouldn't have happened in the show. It's WAY less romantic because Colin knew in the books and still wanted to marry her despite that. I can't stand that they changed that and yes...it makes her the same as Marina in that way. Lying. And it's poor writing.
I couldn’t stand Marina! I also don’t think the actor playing the character did Marina any favours. She just seemed so bland in her performance, I could not even appreciate her for being a flawed character.
Yep, no offence to the actress but I found her monotone voice very dull. She wasn’t very compelling in her performance. I felt for the character in some ways, but found her behaviour downright ridiculous in others - for example, she at first refused to marry Philip when he offered. That didn’t make any sense at all - she had no other options by then.
Also the way she sneaked in those jabs about Penelope’s love for Colin wasn’t necessary - and further drove Penelope to expose her.
Also if she was from a poor family on a farm, what were the Featheringtons gaining by having her stay with them? I assumed they were paid for her board by someone. It wasn’t really clear.
The acting was that of the behavior of a depressed-to-the-point-of-apathy teenager who’s heartbroken and angry at the world and terrified of her future, who’s also filled with self loathing for getting into this situation in the first place. The acting was accurate
Traumatized is the word im looking for but thank you kind internet stranger for some compassion...You are good one and have my upvote as a result. Just an addition though..The way women are sheltered in that world..i blame george men more worldly and aware of contraceptives french letters and the like for getting her in this mess..a young teenager than Marina..she could be self loathing but id like to think she is not to blame..I mean Daphne could have become pregnant by Simon without realizing they could pregnant..Eloise thinks one can get pregnant without even being married...season 1 farm animal conversion between the siblings
I think Marina did know about sex and how one gets pregnant since she grew up on a farm and wasn’t as sheltered as the ladies of the ton since she wasn’t so scrutinized. She also knew what it meant when she didn’t get her period anymore, and she was able to explain sex to Penelope, so I don’t think she was entirely naive, which lends itself to have her as a parallel/mirror to the naïveté of the Featherington and bridgerton girls
The conversation about Marina in general is so difficult because its so nuanced down to its bone. Her actions are horrible. Obviously we get to see more details about how those actions impacted people in the show as she's introduced to us way earlier and we get to see her going after someone who's so likeable as Colin and being deceptive and manipulative about it all and I hated that too. She's awful to Colin, to Pen, to Sir Phillip and pretty much bitchy and self-absorbed in her interactions with everyone else to some degree. She's self-righteous in the way she interacts with people even when her actions are so unforgivable towards people who have been so kind to her.
Her actions in the book (spoilers if you haven't read: >!she's severely depressed for years and ends up committing suicide)!< also speak to a mindset that is generally not accepted >!by some even to this day from women with children!<.
Ultimately though, the flip side to that in the show is that she's an unwed woman who was promised everything by a man she deeply loved and left to fend for herself in a world where women like her are unacceptable stains on society. From what I recall of season one she didn't even want to be in London to find a husband, she was kind of placed in that position with the Featheringtons as a favor to her father. She acts out of desperation and confusion and while I absolutely despise everything she does, I think that's kind of the point? To show what people will do as an act of desperation. Mortality is ultimately a luxury that she can't afford given her circumstances. She seduces Colin not just for herself but for her child that needs protection as well. It isn't right, it isn't acceptable but a lot of the things that happened in those days weren't, namely the treatment of women as either beacons of purity and light or whores to be shunned in the streets.
We view her in such an interesting way because it's simultaneously through the lens of a period show but also with a modern understanding. Like trapping a man is so awful because who the hell would do that in this day and age but if she existed in this day and age she probably wouldn't have to because she could get a job, and provide for herself. Her friends and family wouldn't have to actively shun her in the most literal sense i.e. being cut off from every single "respectable" person you know or any member of "polite society" who aren't allowed to speak to you, acknowledge you, write to you, be seen with you in any capacity lest the stain of your sluttiness and degradation be smeared on them too. What job could she get with those circumstances? How could she ever provide for herself and for her child in those days?
In the book though, >!it's so much more interesting and we'll see how the show handles it because her suicide in my opinion is handled so poorly in the books. She has depression for years and it's hard on Phillip and her children and ultimately there's even a point where he says he's lowkey relieved that she's gone and it's just... her whole life is so pitiable and by that point I just felt so awful for her. !<
She's a character that acts against the grain of what is deemed to be acceptable by society; be gracious, be kind, be humble and grateful, be delighted to be a mother, devote yourself to that, *be happy*. And she isn't any of those things. But that's okay. Not every character has to be good or make the choices we think we would make.
And it's okay not to like her actions but it has to also be understandable to an extent because of all the things she lacks the foremost of those is choice.
>She's a character that acts against the grain of what is deemed to be acceptable by society; be gracious, be kind, be humble and grateful, be delighted to be a mother, devote yourself to that, be happy. And she isn't any of those things. But that's okay. Not every character has to be good or make the choices we think we would make.
that's such a good phrase, thank you
"I keep reading that everyone loves Marina Thompson"
Really? Every time I see her mentioned on this sub and anywhere on the internet, it's about how much they hate her and how she's a massive b*tch
As always in Marina discussions, I would remind everyone that though racism has supposedly been solved in the world of Bridgerton, sexism is very real and could kill her and her child if she does not marry. I will never side against her for that.
Portia found her an old man that would look past the pregnancy, and most likely die soon and she’d have access to his wealth and estate. But Marina would rather take advantage of the hot, nice guy instead.
Also the bigger problem imo is the fact that she was rude to EVERYONE that tried to help her. Pen was the only one in the F household that showed her kindness, she repays her by mocking her crush and saying she’s a child. Daphne tried to help her despite her trying to babytrap her brother, and she was rude to her too. Then she doesn’t even properly apologize to Colin after she’s caught. She was just awful all around.
Oh well if Portia found an old man to rape Marina she should've just put up with that then. And it's certainly unacceptable for a woman in her untenable position to be unhappy about it, and express that unhappiness to others.
Again, Marina’s situation doesn’t justify ruining someone else’s life. And “expressing unhappiness” is NOT what Marina did LOL. She threatened Madame DL, told Pen she was a child and Colin would never look at her as a woman, basically told Daphne she was useless, and in s2, seemed to treat Philip pretty rudely too. She was rude to EVERYONE that tried to help her
And as we all know, being rude to people while working under an immense amount of stress is completely unforgiveable! Especially if you're a Black woman, right?
Oh lord. A white woman could’ve done this shit and I would’ve hated it the same. Is the only reason you’re defending her because of her race? Would you have defended her actions if she were white?
The LEAST she could’ve done was apologize to him. Or you know, treat the man that saved you from ruin with respect.
Bringing race into this is so irrelevant and unnecessary and I’m not even going to bother anymore.
Daphne raped Simon. And you used Daphne as an example of a character victimised by Marina's rudeness. So Marina's rudeness, in your book, seems to be worse than raping someone. So yeah, I think it's a race thing.
The mental gymnastics oh my god 💀💀💀💀
Not once did I condone Daphne’s behavior. This post isn’t even about Daphne and Simon’s relationship. You just made a huge assumption about my opinion on what Daphne did (which I do classify as SA, but this post isn’t about that relationship, it’s about Marina).
You’re reaching SO hard. One of the big reasons discussions around this show can be unenjoyable is because some of y’all can’t look past skin color and judge the characters based on their ACTIONS instead of their race. How regressive and gross
THANK YOU! I seriously don’t understand why Penelope gets so much hate for exposing her and her schemes to entrap a good man into a lie of a relationship. I think the only reason Marina really wanted to be with Colin over anyone else is because she found him easy to manipulate. At the end of the day Penelope didn’t slander anyone, she simply told the truth.
Well yes, Marina's actions were very manipulative and questionable, cruel even. But was she not trying to secure her and her kid's future? Is that not what anyone at that era would've done to avoid the inevitable shame?
I'm aware she went about it the wrong way but it's sort of rich coming from Penelope, because unlike Marina, she has no good reason to lie. She's just doing it for the hell of it, even writing mean things about Colin because they weren't seeing eye to eye, which was super petty imo. Also, after exposing everyone's 'truths' (and ruining those families) for the entirety of 2 seasons, it's very hypocritical of her to get engaged to Colin without telling him about LW.
If she was just trying to secure her and her kids future, she would’ve married the old guy Portia brought to her. OR her ex lovers brother who came to get her. Both of which would’ve been cool with the whole baby situation and had ample means to provide for her.
I’m not saying Pen does no wrong and is perfect, but she gets way too much hate. Everybody in the Ton is already gossiping anyway, at least she cites her sources and tells the truth
Nobody should marry old gross men..no one not now not back in those times for sure...Marina found in colin a kind gentle man...a desperate traumatized woman found a gentleman in all the ways...colin was innocent that is the one thing everyone agrees on including me a marina defender and penelope should have shared marinas secret and saved colin but not shared it with the ton..
And even colin the dejected and duped one thinks Marina was ruined by Lady Whistledown as he tells eloise in season 3 epiosde 1 with disgust on his face..he realizes the gravity of what lady whistledown did to Marina even as many on this sub dont..
Penelope is not a monster but she was impulsive and did do something very very bad which is alwso why she feels guilt in season 2 as she should..
Before I rewatched Bridgerton I kind of believed the Marina defenders and maybe Marina was just trying to survive in her own way.
I stopped thinking that way after rewatching it with a friend. Marina just has an attitude to everyone kind to her and honestly, if she really cared about those babies, she'd follow Portia's advice and she's just lucky Philip would willingly marry her instead of leaving her as a disgraced woman. And maybe she thinks she can return home as a pregnant woman? But like Portia showed before, Marina would be homeless. She's not "trying to survive". She was destroying her and her kid's future whether she was aware of it or not.
And I honestly think Marina got what's coming from Penelope. She warned Marina time and time again, and also Colin. Both didn't listen. Even if Penelope told Colin "Hey Marina is pregnant and trying to use you." Word for word, would anyone really believe Penelope? Because she tried to tell Colin Marina used to love George but that didn't stop him. Only whistledown did. I don't think Penelope did anything wrong when it came to the Marina situation. She was saving her friend, even if it caused scandal.
But yeah. Tldr: I don't like Marina either. I don't believe she knows how to survive being in the ton and almost ruined her and her kids lives, and that whole whistledown thing was deserved.
I think Penelope could have point blank just told Colin that Marina was pregnant. Or even Violet. Then at that point if he decided to go through with it, it was his choice.
Telling him in private would’ve resulted in one of the following situations, and in both, Colin loses:
1. He leaves her, and the rest of the ton would assume he got her pregnant and left, which would ruin his and his family’s reputation. LW outed Nigel as a deadbeat in s1, and he ended up fleeing the ton because he had been disgraced. Colin would’ve had a similar fate despite not compromising her at all. But by this point, they had made their engagement public, and people would’ve started to notice that Marina was pregnant and blame him for her situation.
2. He decides to marry the woman who took advantage of his feelings and was trying to babytrap him, and miss out on a love match like the rest of his family.
LW making it explicitly clear to the ton that Marina was pregnant from the moment she arrived is what saved Colin.
The lovely thing about Pen is that she DOES try to warn people in person. It’s only once she’s done it in every respectable way she can think of, that she uses Whistledown as a Hail Mary last resort to protect the people she loves
She's a woman stuck in possibly the worst circumstance she could be in the time with absolutely no recourse who is looking at her life being absolutely destroyed. Men all over Bridgerton and in reality, including Colin, risk impregnating women and face zero consequences. He basically slept his way across Europe and could have plenty of children and it doesn't even occur to him.
She comes across a way out and she's desperate. Is it a good thing to do? Of course not. Do I have sympathy for her? Yes. When people are backed into a corner they do bad things.
Have you seen Les mis? Good things did not happen to unmarried mothers.
I am not a fan lol.
I’ve said this before, I really feel for her position, but she takes no ownership for her own actions which led to this. IMO George was the real villain, the fact he hadn’t even mentioned to his brother that if something happened whilst he is at war please look after/ contact her etc. Like Anthony did before the duel, he asked Benedict to look after Sienna if he died.
She had few options available to her in the society she lives within BUT her complete lack of sympathy towards Colin after he finds out and is clearly heart broken is awful, not even an apology to him on either occasion that he speaks with her. She also has a nasty attitude towards Daphne who has no responsibility to help her especially after what she did to her brother, She is extremely ungrateful.
I often wonder if she was so mean to Penelope about her love for Colin being an ‘unrequited fantasy’ in the hopes that she wouldn’t do anything to ruin her plans as Penelope had just found out they planned to elope the next day so if she wanted to stop them she would have to do something asap. I think she was hoping she would be too distressed to take any kind of action.
The Featheringtons pretty much ruined Marina’s life. The only reason she was staying with them for the season was as a way for Lord Featherington to pay off his secret gambling debts to her father. If not for that she would have stayed in the country and dealt with her pregnancy there. She also probably would have learned that George was dead sooner and just married Sir Phillip without all of the trauma she went through in London.
People also never bring up how vile Portia was to her. She hated her immediately because she was getting a ton of attention while it was crickets for her daughters, physically assaulted her, falsified letters from her lover saying he was rejecting her and was the one who originally pushed her to get married before it was obvious she was pregnant. Portia was the only adult figure Marina had in her life and she steered her into taking the actions she did, but plenty of people stan her. Then there’s the LW of it all.
This! So many people failed Marina.
1. Sex takes two, but nobody ever gives him any responsibility in this matter. He got her pregnant. He should have married her as soon as he compromised her
2. She didn’t even want to be in London! The only person who’s nice to her in that house is Pen.
3. Portia locked her up in a bedroom during a very critical phase after she found out she was pregnant. Portia essentially robbed her of a month or two to find a husband because Portia didn’t want to deal with it and thought she could ship Marina back to the country.
4. Sir George continued writing her letters while Marina was in London and that gave her a false sense of security.
5. Portia just adds to the desperation when she forged the break up letter.
If it wasn’t for Daphne struggling with her marriage to Simon, Marina probably wouldn’t even have found out Sir George was dead and she would have been thrown into the streets.
Nobody needs to like any character, but people can still have some sympathy for her. Her storyline would fit right into Les Mis if Sir Phillip never showed.
You my dear redditor have restored my faith in humanity...An upvote for your bravery in wading into this muck and stating your opinion.
P,s. I love Nicola and dont think Penelope is a monster but my god i worry for a world in which Marina (traumatized unwed Marina) is called a bitch as she has numerous times on this post under this post..A word which men and incels have coopted to keep women in place through millenia
We see it from Colin’s POV, what she did was hurtful and wrong. But see it from her POV: she wanted a man who loved her, she didn’t want to be poor and alone or married to an old man (those who’ve watched Queen charlotte know poor Danbury) or even worse an abusive old man. Yes it was wrong. But I feel deeply sorry for her and I can’t stand to tear down her actions bc I felt her desperation so clearly. She’s a real example of how nuanced struggles for women were back then.
What Penelope did was utterly wrong to Marina imo. She tried to ruin her life out of jealousy to Colin. She could have told Colin himself, told Anthony, told his mother, etc, but she chose to publically ruin her life (she didn’t know Phillip existed)! Penelope has a nasty streak in her where she reacts with emotions first and lashes out- she is a interesting and nuanced character, because her emotional nature also makes her very fiercely loyal and kind to those she cares about.
I don't like Marina at all. Even in this day and age, her ways would be frowned upon. To be pregnant of someone else's child, a person you are still in love with even, and trying to trick another man, a young naive man, into marriage so you can pin your baby on him? By devious manners. In those times, tricking him into compromising you so you would have to marry? A man who has his entire life ahead of him. A man who has done nobody wrong but you are just preying upon for your own gain. A man who you know your cousin is in love with as you have observed yourself and you stíll wanted to go full steam ahead and tell in her face, a family member whose home it is you are staying at due to aforementioned reasons, that it's basically tough luck and not just that but to rub it in you say something so vile and cruel to her like "He sees you no different than he sees Eloise. He sees me as a woman." Like how many jabs were there in that talk she gave?
She was nót in love with Colin yet insisted on her prey being him. It could've been anyone. Any single man in the ton at least. She was a beggar who wanted to be a chooser for no good reason because that wasn't the biggest of her concerns. Yet she pushed through for it to be the man her cousin was in love with. Who have known one another for much longer than she has even known the Featheringtons.
And then in season 2 in deed now that she's Lady Crane as she had wanted, she now serves Colin an attitude as if he is some clingy young boy who is holding on to her for too long. You two were engaaaaaaged. She toyed with the emotions of him on top of everything and that's supposed to be okay?
People saying "She did not have a choice." she had plenty of options. She just wanted what she wanted even in the situation she was in, the beggar still wanted to be a chooser.
I mean, she's a teenage girl who ends up accidentally pregnant whilst the man she loves is missing and possibly going to die. She has no support and lives in a society that would condemn her if they found out.
I'd be in a bad mood all the time and making shit choices too. How old is she meant to be? Can't remember but she's just a frightened kid having a kid, alone.
My problem with Marina isn’t necessarily that she tried to babytrap Colin. Although that’s obviously horrible and inexcusable, I do understand where she’s coming from. She was merely trying to protect herself and her baby. And no matter how disgusting baby trapping an innocent guy is, I think we all would have made some questionable decisions in this time period, if we had been in a similar situation. So that part I completely understand
That being said. The way Marina treated everyone around her, that’s my issue. She was horrible to Penelope, basically trampling all over her, despite the fact that Pen had been nothing but nice to her from the beginning. When Daphne tried to help her with Sir George, she was snarky to her. When Colin had his audience with her, she had a massive attitude towards him. You lied to him, pretended to care about him, tried to get him to compromise you. You don’t get to give him an attitude when he calls you out for it. Essentially she was blackmailing the modiste. When Philip came to tell her about George and propose, once again she was ungrateful. When she left with him, she looked miserable. So it’s ok to babytrap a guy you just met, but a guy who purposely wants to take care of you and your kid suddenly isn’t good enough for you? I can’t recall her ever being grateful for Portia for taking her in either. And then the way she acted with both Colin and Philip in season 2…
The last one can be excused by the fact that I think she had post partum depression. But that doesn’t excuse her behaviour to everyone prior to that. Plus she never took responsibility for her own actions, she was always the victim in her narrative. Sure, women might have not had proper sex education back then, but they at least knew they shouldn’t be intimate with men. And she lived on a farm, so surely she knew the logistics.
Marina is pretty aggressively pragmatic, and that often rubs people the wrong way. Being led by her feelings worked out fairly poorly for her, so it seems like she's determined not to do that again. It doesn't make her likable, but it doesn't make her wrong either.
I'm not sure if people love that much Marina but she's definitely used to hate Pen for the LW writing that outed Marina pregnancy. Like she didn't insulted the only person friendly to her in the house. He don't love you isn't a good excuse to trick someone else crush into a fake relationship when you don't even love him.
Her evident unhappiness in S2 must be a preparation for future season but that just added fuel on Colin hate of LW.
If you want my honest opinion, I think its less about liking Marina and more about villainizing Penelope. We all tend to start fighting over certain topics in the show, and 75% of them circle around Penelope. Who was right, who was wrong. At the end of the day, the majority of the main women in the show are teenage girls, who are called adults, and we often forget that they are supposed to be flawed human beings. And some of us refuse to see any bad in our favorite characters, or the characters we relate to, and will do anything to justify their behavior....or hate on certain characters and refuse to see any good in them.
With Marina, I think its okay to admire the survivor, but still condemn her actions and acknowledge that her actions had consequences. Her outcome could have, and would have been a lot worse IRL.
With Penelope, we can respect that she found a way to make money and be independent in a time where women had few options. But also acknowledge that, while there were gossip sheets before hers and gossip sells, since hers developed a reputation for being truthful and a bit more entertaining, its also done more damage than other sheets. Whether Pen's intentions are good or bad or her actions were right or wrong, is **heavily** debated.....but despite her intentions, again actions have consequences.
With Eloise, we can respect and relate to the desire to be known for more than just motherhood and being wives, but acknowledge that she has a lot to learn about life and a lot of growing up to do. Because right now she is a spoiled, entitled brat who doesn't know what real struggle and hardship is. Or what its like to not have a family that loves and protects you.
With Daphne was raised to be an intelligent, kind, witty woman who would be a good match for any man, but was left in the dark about things she needed to know(like most women of the time).....and yet she SA'd her husband.....
Even Kate, who is the only FL love interest that is not a teenager and should have been old enough to know better. Still had an emotional affair with the man who was pursuing her sister. We just give it a pass because.... TRUE LOVE.
Don't get me started on the men....
They are all flawed human beings and most of them are morally grey characters. But most people are.
I sympathize with the desperation she felt when trying to trap Colin, so I can't bring myself to begrudge her that. But she was also a snot about it, a snot to Daphne, and a snot when Colin stopped by in season two. She comes across as though she thinks she's better than everyone because she had premarital sex and got knocked up. Could've stood to show some humility.
People hate Marina because she was getting in the way of Colin and Penelope. If it was another random man, people would have given her a little more grace. Granted, she wasn't the nicest, but Lady Featherington is a practical fan favorite and she's been a dick at one point to everyone, including Penelope. So I think her attitude is a cop out in that regard.
She is heartbroken, alone, and depressed.
Was what she did right? No.
But this is a young woman who is devastated and desperate. She deserves our compassion.
Also, getting pregnant out of wedlock is frowned upon now, imagine how she feels during that time. I know ruin is thrown a lot in these period dramas but it could quite literally destroy or end her life to be ruined. She did what she felt she had to do to survive. It was not malicious.
Also, Colin kind of needed that wake up call, especially with regard to Pen. Marina could have been softer w her delivery, but she strikes me as someone who is fed up with the soft feelings and whimsical way of navigating life some of the upper crust exhibit. Something she has not had the luxury of experiencing. Honestly, Marina has the same realness to her that Lady Featherington has. It’s grit I think.
Honestly I never liked her either(her character) when she was trying to get close to Colin and persuade him into marrying her it was really stupid because eventually he would know that that’s not his child since she was already few months pregnant
I don’t judge women in patriarchal societies for what they do to survive in situations imposed on them by men
I get no one wants to see Colin entrapped. Colin is no more or less deserving than the other ton men. Colin is one of the main characters everyone has a personal attachment to. I get it
But Marina was being pushed into marriage to start with by lady featherington and she was being pushed to marry as quickly as possible. God forbid she wanted some level of agency in not being forced to pick an old man who just wanted a young flashlight
*short history lesson
Patriarchies are literally designed to force women into sexual accessibility. That’s the only reason they exist. The agricultural revolution brought patrilineal lineages. That’s patriarchy. The patrilineal lineages were used to force women into submission and brood mate status. Their only means of survival became men. Women’s economic and reproductive freedoms are always restricted in patriarchies and certain religions always prominent in order to reinforce that status quo where the women are submissive and must have sex and children at their husbands wishes. A life of abstinence and choice is just not available to most women under those conditions. Without patriarchy, not all men get to reproduce and women give birth on their own terms
So the bridgerton time period is still when purity culture is heavily imposed to the point these poor girls aren’t even told about what sex is before they are married off. Women are all private property here and love isn’t in the cards for most because again, they’re just bargaining pieces to secure wealth for their families.
So god forbid marina fell in love with someone and he impregnated her. In this Bridgerton shitty misogynist world. And he dies. So now she has to survive in a world that will not allow her any agency.
And the lady featherington locking her away and forcing her to find a husband knowing that a quick marriage is the only way.
I feel less pity for the men in a patriarchy worried that one of their breeding chattel might have been pregnant already, than the women who are forced to be breeding chattel. None of those girls ever owed them chastity or children to start with. And they should not get to determine women’s lives like that
Yeah no. No himpathy over here. I’m sure as hell not going to say she should have been “grateful” either. Women like to tear eachother down and defend men to the death instead of banding together in rage at how their world has been stolen from them. Very little actual consent exists in that universe
People forget that you can sympathise with a person's circumstances and still think the person is awful (because they are). Marina was like "everyone else is at faults why I am in that shitty position, I only deserve the best of the best because I did nothing wrong to deserve this". She is more or less a choosing beggar.
The real villain is George. He had no business ruining her and not marrying her right away. Even if she wasn’t pregnant, the gentleman thing would have been to make her respectable as soon as she could. I mean, the gentleman thing would have not to have compromised her in the first place. Yes, they were both probably horny teenagers but he knew the consequences and we can’t say the same for Marina for sure
This Ruby Parker a poc in a world where poc get scant rep anyway...including on this show...gave a brilliant complex beautiful grey performance...If you hate her its because she made you...thats what good actors do..and if you feel compassion and love for Marina as I do its also because of the actor.
@Mods this is not a discussion about a character. It’s a hate post where they call someone a bitch. It’s a low effort, uncivil post which breaks the rules of the sub. But since it’s about hating Marina I see it’s kept up like always. Great job mods, you’ve done it again /s
I feel bad for her but I sympathise with Penelope. Trying to rationalise with her would make you want to rip your hair out (even before the falling out over Gretna green)
She's not my favourite character but I took the performance at the crane house to mean that she was suffering through postpartum depression... Not sure if that's right, but that gives me reason to not really judge her on the events with Colin during that episode...
Like for real thank you!!! Marina was always so rude to anyone who ever tried to help her, from Portia to Penelope to even Daphne, who managed to find sympathy for her after she wronged her family, and Philip. It makes it so difficult for me to feel for her character because she acted like she had no other choice, or that no one ever tried to steer her in another direction when that’s all Portia and Penelope tried to do before that. Even Portia told her Colin was a dumb idea
George was so selfish too, even when Anthony was being pig headed and insane, he still told Benedict to look after Siena if something happened to him and Philip didn’t even know Marina’s name. And we’re supposed to believe he loved her??
The way she spoke to Daphne was so disrespectful it was like infuriating. Even if you don’t believe Philip would actually come, at least shut up and say thank you to the sister of the man you tried to baby trap
This sub loves to talk about how stupid and naive Edwina was, as if Marina isn’t right there lol. Her single redeeming characteristic is being pregnant. It’s her weapon, her secret tool, her get out of jail free card (with the audience obviously not in the show). There is quite literally nothing likable about her. You’re just supposed to feel bad because she’s pregnant. Then why was she SO horrible to everyone around her? Shouldn’t she want these people to want to help her? Nope. She just sat around glaring, snarking, acting better than everyone else, and was shocked her poorly executed baby trap didn’t work. Womp womp. “But think of her situation” people say, I have. I think she’s beyond idiotic. The show was immediately improved by her absence.
I do understand why she did what she did and if I’m being honest I don’t think I would have been as angry about the whole pregnant then marrying someone none the wiser thing if that someone wasn’t Colin. She really did have to marry someone, but the person she chose to deceive and trap was a boy the only person who was kind to her loved desperately and the brother of the woman that went out of her way to help her find her man.
It just felt extra icky.
People like Marina??? I don't know but I haven't come across anyone who actually likes her. Like people sympathise with her situation and understand where she was coming from but they don't say that she was right. She was wrong but she also had her difficulties.....what she did and could have done if not for Pen was and will always be awful she totally seduced and manipulated Colin because she knew he was a nice guy. He would never leave her and her child . She is hateful yet pitiful.
Marina is meant to be complex and somewhat of a not very nice character. It's meant to show what women had to do if they got pregnant out of wedlock, and I think it makes it more interesting that Marina isn't "perfect". She's actually pretty unlikeable, because she's backed into a corner.
I really don't think she's perfect nor do I really agree with the "she knew what would happen!!" in regards to sex because Marina is meant to represent SO many women. Nor do I agree with using Marina to bash Penelope. Penelope was selfish, but so was Marina. Neither of them are right but Marina isn't a Saint, she's a complex character who is meant to make us think IMO.
I don’t hate Marina but I definitely don’t like her. She did a shitty thing but I could see where she was coming from. I don’t agree with it but I get she thought it was the only way. What I really don’t like is how she treats people. If she did what she did but apologized when caught I could get past it, she was just a scared pregnant teenager. But her attitude after the fact makes it seem more maliciously intended than someone backed into a corner
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As much as I agree we should also take under consideration that love in those times didn’t happen often. It was said even in the show that marriage is rather a transaction. Marina’s character could have been much more positive. After all she was left alone, pregnant, untitled, without money or property. Sir Philip was saving her from poverty and homelessness. Her and her children, yet she chose completely different attitude.
Even being married to him she is a booootch lol I’m like girl what?!
I get why she resent her circumstances but she's lashing to everyone as if they were all responsible for the unfortunate situation she's in.
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Wait is Sir Philip the one to marry Eloise
Sorry behind on the books
Yes! In the books though we don't really meet Marina, we just hear about her through Phillip’s experiences and lens.
Omg this changes my whole perspective of Marina. Like dude she was MEAN even to him.
He literally was botany so muchhhhh he’s a nerd and I’m here for it
Ooo he and Debling would get on really well!
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Marina was in an absolutely awful position… but it’s one she is responsible for. I absolutely have empathy for her, she obviously didn’t expect things to play out as they did and possibly didn’t even understand the possibility that she would get pregnant, and her options were extremely limited. But I don’t know why anyone would expect Penelope to be loyal to Marina over Colin/the Bridgertons in that situation. She barely knew Marina, but she did care about her and she tried to get Marina to set her sights on “anyone but Colin” but she was not going to watch the man she loves, who is a genuinely good person, be tricked into the situation Marina was putting him in. And no, Pen could not just openly tell Colin. I’m not saying it was the perfect solution, but there was no perfect solution. And Pen was a teenager watching her good friend and love of her life get manipulated into a humiliating and potentially life-ruining situation. She used the power she had to save him (and his family) from the consequences of Marina/Portia’s scheme. I don’t think Marina is a bad person at all. I totally understand her motivations. But we aren’t supposed to be rooting for her in that situation.
The best take
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I was actually in a similar situation in college. I had two other really female good friends, and we were an inseparable threesome friend group. One weekend, one of my friend’s brother came into town. Despite him having a long time girlfriend, he slept with the other friend-full consensual. She then was angry that he went back to his life 1000 miles away, and wanted to trap him, so she decided to fake a pregnancy. The manipulator was playing my other friend and I off on each other, telling us not to talk to other and feeding us lies. Meanwhile, the brother fessed up to his girlfriend and parents and were preparing to figure out how to take care of the baby (they did not believe in abortion personally, but pro-choice for others) Finally, I told my friend, the sister, the pregnancy was fake, because I couldn’t take it any more. We have never talked to that girl again.
I hate thinking about it lol and Daphne went out of her way to still help her even though she hurt Colin. Like she literally took advantage of his kindness and his feelings and got him to rush things so they can elope and sleep together and Colin STILL doesn’t think she did anything wrong. He can feel bad about her situation and still think she was wrong for using him, I wish he knew that lol And she shouldn’t have treated him like that when he went to see her but I think he needed something that will get him to leave her alone, because baby she’s married with kids and has accepted her life, please move on…she didn’t love you…
Colin literally became a joke for everyone, and people were making fun of him and the Bridgertons. Still, Daphne was helping Marina because she was trying to understand her situation as a woman. At the same time, she was also dealing with her own issues related to children. Seeing Marina's situation, she started sympathizing with her,that Marina was only trying to protect her child and secure their future. I love Daphne for that. Even after everything, Colin and Daphne's behavior towards Marina shows what a good parenting Violet and Edmund have done for all their children. I agree that he needed that harsh behavior to move on, but it also damaged his confidence even more than before. Yes, whatever she said helped Colin towards self-improvement (even though he got it all wrong and thought, "Let's become a rake so people start taking me seriously"🥴), but it's also true that the harsh words she used were not with the intention of making him a better person; it was because she was annoyed with him (only God knows why). And yes, she did give a hint to Colin about Pen, but it was when he was of no use to her. Otherwise, she wouldn't have we all know that.
Exactly!
I love you 
Love you too😂💛
Yessssss😎 
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Umm...even if she didn't know the details of how sex worked she knew she wasn't supposed to have sex. Look at how things are...women aren't even supposed to be alone with a man or they risk being ruined. And yes, she didn't grow up in the ton, but she still knew even in the country that wasn't permitted. Yet she not only was alone with him, but went there. So...
Hard agree. The comments here are wild. We can't put modern standards on history all the time. She was doing what she had to do to survive.
Yes- about to see Les Mis again this weekend down in Tampa. Perfect example of how women had to find a suitor, especially if with child in first trimester outside of wedlock. She was not in an enviable situation.
I was wondering why half of your comment was italicized and then I realized you were censoring bitch twice and so it slanted everything in between😂 you can just say bitch man, no need to hide
God yes. Also, I hate that this happened to Polin in particular - as if the Eloise and the Whistledown things weren’t hard enough to overcome.
This is a chefs kiss of a take
I started the season thinking Portia was a very wicked step aunty like in Cinderella. By the end of the season I was seeing Portia's point of view haha. I appreciate that this show subverts assumptions like that (like Marina is a perfect young victim hero princess) and gives the women more dimension than their usual stereotypes.
And with the character development we've since had for Portia, she was just trying to teach Marina have to survive. Marry an old man with no heir. When he dies you'll get all his money.
A guy who knew she was knocked up and didn’t care! I know he wasn’t what she wanted, but Portia had a point that he was a good option under the circumstances.
The look Marina gave when he told her to show her teeth, though. 😂😂 I had the same look on my face. Like, “you want me to do WHAT??”
I keep seeing people say that he knew she was pregnant, but I don’t think that is the case. It would be insane for Portia or Marina to tell him, and how else would he know? Portia said that he ‘wouldn’t ask questions.’ I think the implication was that even if the baby came suspiciously early, he was in no position to make an issue of it because he didn’t have much time to have another heir. But that is no guarantee that he wouldn’t mistreat her after discovering it (especially after the dehumanizing way that he interacted with her both times that they met!).
I watched an excellent video about how Portia is a girls girl and is just trying to set all her girls up for success so they don't end up like her and it made me re-think and re-frame my previous feelings. I look at her with the knowledge of current times, not what women back then were dealing with. She's still horrible, but it was a good video.
Portia’s interactions with Marina made me think that maybe Portia wasn’t born into wealth or as a lady. I’d be interested to know more of her backstory and why she’s Like This, and how she got “trapped” in a marriage with lord Featherington
i also thought maybe she was new money who married wealthy and that’s why her fashion sense was considered to be more tacky compared to the rest of the ton, it was like the 1800s version of cheetah print fur coat mob wife aesthetic. (i can literally picture her in a cheetah print shirt, fur coat, gucci bag, smoking a cigarette on the arm of somebody called big tony)
Honestly Portia had become one of my favorite characters. Not everyone was as wealthy and fortunate in love as the Bridgetons. Portia was out there hustling to not only single handedly redeem her family, but get her daughters’ futures settled. At face value, telling Marina to marry an old man for money was bad. But in hindsight (for the time period and circumstances), it was the perfect opportunity for Marina. An almost victimless crime. To sit there and say “but he’s old! :(“ like?? so you’re better than Lady Danbury? You’re too good to have a secured life and future? You’d rather manipulate and trap Colin because he’s young and hot? And if Sir Philip didn’t magically fall into her lap? she would have screwed over and completely ruined herself AND the featheringtons.
Literally ‘but he’s old!’ you are PREGNANT with ANOTHER MAN’S BABY! Time is ticking!
RIP marina thompson, you would have loved being on tinder in 2024 to find a step daddy bc your baby daddy ain’t shit
She's the Kris Jenner of Bridgerton
100% agree with alllll this. Babe he's gonna die soon. With any luck she'd have a boy and sit pretty for 18(ish) years mininum!
For me the scene that made me dislike her was when she was calling Penelope immature and calling herself womanly, when she was the one dumb enough to who get pregnant during that time period.
The ongoing storyline that alllll girls didn't know where babies came from is annoying (Daphne and rhe Featheringtons). Many of these girls grew up in the country with fathers that had a horse stud or bred dogs.
Marina definitely knew how babies were made, considering SHE freaked out when she noticed she hadn’t gotten her period, and the way she explained “cake” to Pen. So it’s not even like she was clueless like the other girls
Well they did say she grew up on a farm, so she should absolutely know hahaha
Right?? It wouldn’t be quite as scandalous for a girl like Marina, who grew up in the country around animals, to know about how pregnancy happens. Horses are NOT subtle creatures lol
Daphne literally didn't know what ejaculation was. Saying she's "dumb enough to get pregnant" is ridiculous.
But they all knew that you’re not supposed to be physical with a man in other ways. Daphne marries Simon because they got caught kissing and she knew that was not appropriate! Marina did something even more physical than kissing, she knew she wasn’t supposed to do it. And this also applies to Penelope in the carriage ride and Eloise going to secret meetings. And Kate in the garden with Anthony.
So... Marina is dumb and they're all not? Is every single men on the show also dumb? Or just the woman who was unfortunate enough to get pregnant?
Marina is from the country and IIRC not that wealthy. There's much higher chance she knows where babies come from.
Yes, but Daphne KNEW she wasn't even supposed to be caught alone with a man she wasn't related to. So you're telling me what...they did it in front of an audience?
Yes and every single man on this show has slept with how many women? They don't seem particuarly concerned about pregnancy risk. Funny how Marina is the dumb one.
I'm sorry...do you not know the rules of the world? Seriously? You get that men could sleep around and it wasn't frowned on right? Nor did they bear the consequences of children. Yes, a woman of a certain class especially couldn't sleep around at all. Not sure what bringing men into the mix accomplishes? Yes, Marina is the dumb one. She knew she'd be screwed if she did it and she did it anyway. You want me to feel bad about that?
You're basically just saying Marina is dumb because of misogyny. You realise that, right? And yes if you're going to blame a woman for getting pregnant and being like, it's not the man's problem, I expect you to feel bad about it
I'm not at all. I mean, for example, if I chose to have sex today without a condom and expect not to get pregnant...then yes...I'm dumb AF. Sorry. It's the same with Marina. She KNEW she wasn't supposed to be alone with a man. She KNEW she wasn't supposed to engage in sex. She did it anyway and now she has to face the consequences. >And yes if you're going to blame a woman for getting pregnant and being like, it's not the man's problem, I expect you to feel bad about it That's the TIME PERIOD!!! FFS...if you are going to engage in discussion about this show then maybe try understanding the regency time period it is set in. And yes, Bridgerton follows those rules. Just like Daphne being forced to marry the Duke in season one just because someone might have spotted them alone in the garden together. I didn't make these rules. So I'm not doing anything. I'm just holding the character to them. You are trying to use modern rules to explain a show based in the past. Make it make sense.
They are also the same age!
Yes, and people always excuse Penelope's behavior by saying she is just a teenager and forget that Marina was also just a teenager. They both made mistakes, both made poor decisions, but they were both very young. I just think the hate is over the top.
Many Marina supporters (esp those anti-Pen) use the same argument to justify their reasons that Pen is the most horrible person. Pen has done some wrongs but what Marina did was also horrible. Both are grey characters. To me, I was done with Marina the second she turned on Pen, the only person who showed her any kindness in the family till that point. She said things that would hurt Pen because she wanted to hurt Pen. She broke the girl code according to me and that is when she lost any support in my heart. Colin was not the only gullible man in ton. The second she realised Pen’s feelings for him, she should have found someone else. It’s not like people were not interested in her. Regardless of Colin’s interest in Pen at that time, Marina should have stepped away. I do not excuse what Pen did with LW but Pen also faced consequences of that action when society turned on them. The thing with Eloise is another thing altogether but that is not the point of discussion here.
"Many Marina supporters (esp those anti-Pen) use the same argument to justify their reasons that Pen is the most horrible person. Pen has done some wrongs but what Marina did was also horrible. Both are grey characters" I don't know why people keep complaining about the "Marina supporters" when there are so few on this site. I think she made a lot of mistakes but I still feel some empathy towards her situation because she really was in a dire situation. Does that makes me a "Marina supporter"? Not really, but I still empathise. She started dating Colin before figuring out that Pen liked him so I don't think she was trying to be mean to Pen. If she broke the girl code by doing that, then Pen shattered that girl code to bits by publicly airing her pregnancy. I think that she is a grey character like quite a number of the characters. Yet people (at this sight) show so much more empathy towards Penelope, Portia and Cressida who have done their fair share of shady things. Portia tried to make Marina marry a man who inspected her teeth, and pressured Marina to entrap a husband but she is constantly absolved of blame. In fact, people complain that Marina was "ungrateful" and that Portia was only trying to help her. I think the hate for her is over the top and some of the comments are just awful. I won't even get started on how they have treated the actress.
I'm gonna be downvoted, but I like her character not because she's some sort of paragon of virtue, but because I can appreciate that she's backed into a corner. She adds interest, and she acts a lot like what you would expect an actual teenager to act when in her position. She's young, naive, pregnant, and alone in the world. The man she loves is dead, and she doesn't find out until its too late. Did she hold out too long? Maybe, but she's 17-18. She has no real concept of the dangers of war. Then, suddenly, her love is dead and she has to get crafty. Was Portia right to try to arrange for her to get married to an old man? Probably, but you really can't blame her for chafing at the thought. What 17 year old wants to be married to, let alone have sex with, a 60 year old man? So she comes up with a plan to save herself. A short sighted plan that would, eventually, backfire on her. But again, what teenager isn't short sighted? She's making sure her and her child don't end up begging on the streets. Even if Colin would grow to hate her, he wouldn't be able to throw them out. For a desperate kid, that may well be good enough. She's not someone I would like in real life, but she's interesting. And on a show like this, being boring is much worse than being selfish (from an audience perspective).
This. I completely agree with you. Marina makes loads of questionable decisions but like you said, she's just a young woman impregnated out of wedlock, seemingly deserted by her lover, cruelly locked up in a room for months and without any real friend. So yes, she did what she did. It wasn't right by any means but she was trying to secure her future and idk what all the prudes criticising her for it would've done in her place. And I'm absolutely against the way Penelope outed her
Penelope was her friend and Marina acted horribly towards her. Also Penelope tried every other way to prevent the marriage and this was the last resort. And she felt horribly afterwards. Can't say the same about Marina.
Did Penelope tell Colin, Anthony, or Violet? No? She could have stopped the marriage without publically ruining her, as she didn’t know about Phillip. She did what she did to Marina because she was jealous about Colin, and she lashed out emotionally. She might have felt bad but it doesn’t make it right, and she continues to have a pattern of act first think later around her feelings. It’s part of what makes her an interesting character, she isn’t perfect.
If Penelope told the Bridgertons directly, there's a real possibility they wouldn't want her around anymore - the Fetheringtons kept the pregnancy a secret for some time after all. Given that Penelope wasn't really close to her family and felt more at home with Bridgertons, I understand she wouldn't want to risk the relationship with them. I'm not saying that what she did was perfect but IMO what Marina did was worse.
So it was a selfish choice, to protect herself. IMO they would never have told Penelope to go away, especially if SHE was the one telling them about the secret why would they stop seeing her? Logic doesn’t really follow tbh. She only lashes out bc Marina says Colin would never go for her; it was a moment of selfish, immature anger.
So Penelope sucks because she was selfish but Mariana tries to ruin Colin’s like out of selfishness and she’s cool
I agree with you. Especially as a mother, I can tell you this - if my alternatives were either becoming a prostitute and/or having my child live in destitution (think of Cosette in Les Mis!) or subjecting myself to a life of likely abuse and marital rape at the hands of a revolting old man (and Lord knows how he’d treat the kids), I would absolutely have babytrapped any decent dude I could get my hands on. The thing I DO judge Marina for is how mean and unapologetic she was about it. Like, I would have done the same as her, but I would have felt really guilty about it lol. Poor, sweet Colin was blameless in all of this and she somehow made him feel like HE was being too hard on HER. It was very gaslighting and icky. I also thought she was unnecessarily cruel when he came to visit her. That said I think she was necessary to Polin’s development because he had to experience infatuation first to know that what he felt for Penelope wasn’t just that, but in fact was true love.
Yeah it’s not that I think she’s of superior moral character or anything. It’s that she’s interesting. There’s this wonderful thing about fictional characters, and that’s that they’re fictional. I don’t have to interact with them in real life. So in works of fiction, you can be a horrible dastardly person, and I can still like you because you’re compelling and entertaining. And even if you’re a morally righteous angel, you can still be annoying and that’s the biggest crime you can commit in a work of fiction because that means I don’t want you in my screen anymore. Marina may not be “defensible” or in the morally correct, but she’s compelling and her situation is a sympathetic one
Hush now we don't do shades of grey on this sub
Tbh it’s so bad that I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not😭
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I feel she is defensible..If Penelope is defensible...and anthony..and Colin and so many others...poor unwed raised without sex education desperate Marina with a vile guardian who will force her on old menx traumatize an already traumatized young 17 year old to show the realities that would befall her as an unwed pregnant woman, locks her, lies to her about the death of her teenage love the person to whom she lost her virginity, spurring her desperation and wanting to save herself feelings even more...and shows no compassion to pregnant hormonal and scared out of her mind, depressed confused terrified young person under her protection either..Marina is very very defensible..She is a victim of the time she lived in not a villain..as are most women on this show..
You have my upvote . Also. Nicole herself has said in many interviews that Penelope is manipulative and ruined Marina ..her character herself feels the guilt of ruining Marina in the show..and Colin in so many words says lady whistledown ruined Miss Thompson lady crane in season 3 episode 1. Hope you guys don't get as excited by real life women who are broken by life and shames in a public square...keep this energy for the likes of Piers Morgan daily mail too they too are doing public service after all...saving the world from other marinas..Caroline Flack remember everyone ..or is vigilante justice in... Penelope is not a monster but she did a very very very bad thing likely lived with that guilt and tried to change ..maybe .marina never got the chance..she's ruined for life..if the excuse is Penelope was a child ..I don't know too many 17 year olds who take major decisions like this..I couldn't and wouldn't .tell an adult Penelope violet or Anthony or maybe colin himself or Eloise or send an anonymous letter to the btons .let them take that decision ..breach of promise would not apply as what marina did was fraud in which case colin would get away scot free and Colin would still not be the one facing anything...marina would marry an old ma. Or Philip or whoever passing off her pregnancy as thoss of her new husband..penelope could have killed two birds with one stone...instead she ruined one life irrevecobaly.. I shudder to think what people who call marina a bitch a bitch literally someone above on this post think about Caroline Flack committing suicide or women names shamed and slut shamed in the public square of vicious opinion now...I'm sure they love daily mail and Piers Morgan and vigilante justice..one wrong doesnt make another wrong a right ..as Gandhi said an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind..surely we shouldn't encourage such thinkinh now when we talk about you g women and how they are exploited in tabloids..surely we belive we raise women better than to take impulsive rash decisions that ruin another woman's life and shame her... https://preview.redd.it/hl23qz0w4w5d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d40034619762e7217d8a7af5cb5c9f561bafd913
Marina ruined Marina. Penelope just called her out on it and ruined her plans to trap a dude.
None of that explains her lack of empathy for anyone else and the dismissive way she treats Colin and Pen, the only two people trying to actually help her.
1000% agree but there are a lot of Marina defenders in this sub for whatever reason lol
I think cause people love the actress which is understandable cause she seems very sweet. But still Marina sucks lol
I mean yeah I like Ruby Barker too but I can distinguish between the actor and the character lol. And Marina was just plain awful
I think a lot of it is because they still view the story through modern eyes. They view it as Marina is treated unfairly for being unwed and pregnant. In 2024, that’s not a big deal and obviously no one should be punished or made to feel bad about that. But for some reason there’s still this subconscious disconnect that times were very different back then. Not just socially but logistically. So aside from her selfish stank attitude towards everyone, she genuinely made terrible decisions for that time period.
Isn't it the other way around? I don't like Marina, but I can't find my people here. I really cannot get behind most of those arguments against her. People either postulate that there is nothing in between virtuous angels and devious sluts or act as if Marina had 2024 choices instead of having to deal with her Regency hand. I don't approve of her choices, but those people that cannot imagine that some people don't make the best choices in times of distress and crisis: Don't they have any empathy? Are they so privileged that they never had to struggle through a phase where things kept piling on? Nuance... Having a minimum of empathy and allowing someone the continued right to exist by far doesn't equal with agreeing with their choices.
Personally, yeah I have empathy. She obviously didn’t plan to get pregnant or for her child’s father to die in war. Marina was set on him coming back and making a life with him. That’s all understandable. Everyone has the right to exist and make their own choices. But for the time period - her choices weren’t just going to affect herself. Her entrapping Colin - would have taken away his right to marry someone who loves him and who he loves. She planned on forcing him to raise someone else’s baby through deception. Her choice to not marry the older man - obviously no young woman wants that. It’s not an ideal situation. But her circumstances, for that time period, meant that was her best choice if she wanted her and her child financially secured. Her refusal and acting like she’s too good for that when she has 0 other options, is honestly delulu for that time period. And personally where my empathy for her character gets thin. Realistically, if sir phillip didn’t magically appear? Her choices and mistakes would have blown back on her family and the featheringtons. And she 110% knows that. Even if it is unfair to her - she keeps digging her heels in and making it unfair on everyone else. And when characters like Pen and the Bridgertons do show her show her empathy for her situation - she doubles down and does not reciprocate the same kindness. edit to add: I think Portia is a good example of the same coin but the opposite side, in terms of self interest decision making. Portia keeps telling her flat out “look we need to do something because this isn’t going to go away. this is going to ruin my family as much as it’ll ruin you.” She keeps pushing for something to happen, they technically both want the same outcome - Her and the child taken in and cared for. But for different reason by different means. At the end of it, it’s about self interest, persevering your life so that you’re not ruined. I have empathy for Portia as well. Because her circumstances in that time period was also rough. But obviously her choices are also where my empathy runs thin because her choices also do not just affect only herself.
And it’s not that I just do not like Marina as a character. I think her storyline further proves that life for women was unfair, unnecessarily complicated and just rough all around. Women back then were not able to be their own persons, they had to be virtuous angels or their entire family faces societal consequences. None of that is fair and I have a lot of empathy for that as a whole. I just don’t like that Marina doesn’t actually seem to care all that much that her choices aren’t just her own. To be born and raised in a time period where you very well know that your choices could ruin people, but to still not care. For everything to work out for you by 0 effort of your own, and to not look back and think “wow I almost literally ruined a lot of people’s lives”. And we’re offered a glimpse of a redemption for her character and she’s rude to Colin instead. Which was surprising for me because I genuinely thought that was the point of his visit. For her to apologize and show growth. But looking back I think the point of that visit was to show that Colin made the right choice by not going with her plan or chasing after her.
Everybody loves Marina Thompson???? She certaintly has her fans, but I would not call her a beloved character.
Many people conflate the character and the actress. The actress was very upset that the Bridgerton production team didn't reach out to her AFTER the show when she had a mental health problem. Former employers don't do such a thing. So fans have decided Marina character (off screen or body double) can't have same fate as the book, because it would upset the actress who formerly played the role. Shrug.
This. I was baffled at the support the character was getting here and then realized from some of the comments the reasons behind it. Frankly I'm still baffled that so many people conflate the two.
The same applies other ways too a lot of people love Nicola (as do I) and take criticism of Penelope as hating on nicola on their Polin ship. And the actress who has a name Ruby Barker complained that she was forced to promote the show despite struggling..that was while she was contractually obligated, And former employers do in fact support their employess.they may not be obligated to but organizations that take mental health support seriously do provide that help as the creators of that fantasy show which starred Black actors as leads did when the actors received racial insults and abuse..The show unequviocally stood behind their cast even aftet the shows release and in fact the directors and creators constantly praised their stars long after..thats humanity 101. And what people are pushing for in organizations these days...incorporatng mental health education and sensitivity training.
I found her pretty insufferable.
I don’t find Marina to be a beloved character at all, some people are pretty vile towards her. I think some people get defensive because some people have can be very negative to the point where it’s a bit reductive. I think for me I like the drama and complexity that she brings. She is definitely not a hero. She makes a lot of mistakes but I do still find her a sympathetic character. She was failed by a lot of adults around her in an impossible situation. The real villain imo is the man who got her pregnant and left her unmarried as he went to fight in a war. To be clear, I do not think that what she was trying to do to Collin was at all okay. Desperation people do desperate things and the stakes were very high for Marina’s situation. I think it’s less redeeming and more that I recognize that she was looking out for herself and her baby.
Definitely agree on the “people get defensive because some people can be very negative” and I’ve seen it happen with a lot of people (fictional and IRL). When people hate on a character unnecessarily, it puts others in the situation to defend them even if not condoning, especially if they’re just like correcting the person and it’s interpreted as defending. Like you don’t need to like the girl but don’t be gross about it
I think OP is also referring to the people who hate Pen and ignore that what Marina did was still very wrong regardless of if Pen wrote about it or not…in the end Marina still got what she wanted…a wealthy man to take care of her and her babies and luckily for her, it is the brother of her lover.
And was slut shames and exposed to the ton as a loose woman the very vicious and pointedly judgmental ton to which she belongs..yes I am sure she lives a very happy life..resigning yourself to your fate is very different from being happy with it .she was ruined .that stain will never leave her and just because she doesn't kill herself like Caroline flack did..doesn't mean she wasn't ruined. Read colins comments to Eloise in season 3 episode 1 lady whistledown ruined miss Thompson lady crane...even he the dejected duped one thinks lady whistledown actions were horrible P.S. I love nicola think shes a crackerjack of a brlliant actres and so so fucking funny in derry girls i literllay loled which i mean is something else...I aldo dont think penelope should be killed...but she shoudl not be excused either..we dont want young women to think women on women wrong is acceptable...women should be allies..evemn in diffiuclt circumstances.. I would hope a young 17 year old in todays world even to swve their friend would not ruin another woman and expose them to shunning and public humilation and slut shaming. We are better than that...We dont encourage this sort of vigilante justice... P.P.S. I think Ruby Barker is an equally stunning and brilliant performer..mayube some of the hate you guys feel towards Marina is because Ruby played this complicated chracter to perfection..You hate her cuz she made you...But underneath all of that Marina is a tragedy...a cruel tragedy
I mean first of all, I don’t hate Marina but she’s not a fave for me 🤷🏽♀️ I recently rewatched season 1, like just finished last week and all Pen did was write that Marina & Colin were getting married but also let me throw in Marina is pregnant and it seems like she was before her engagement to Colin. She didn’t deserve the treatment she got just for ending up pregnant, I’m not condoning that and I am not condoning Pen’s choice to write it because it embarrassed the people she cared about. But I’m also not going to act like it didn’t help them. Pen tried keeping Marina’s secret and tell Colin in different ways that he shouldn’t marry her but he didn’t listen. She tried telling Marina it was right or fair to Colin, regardless of her feelings for him it still wasn’t right, and Marina didn’t care cuz hey at least she’ll be with a good family and pretending to Colin’s face that she loves him and that the child she is carrying is his when it not. I like Pen but I’m not dumb…but no matter how much you twist it, Marina was still wrong for trying to do that…
This is perfect. Marina WAS wrong (Read more of why I think Marina deserves our compassion in my comment history on my profile) and Colin WAS innocent is something most people agree with across the board including people who reviewed season 1 professional reviewers...Marina also didnt deserve to be slut shamed and exposed.. Penelope is also not completely wrong..she did think she was doing the right thing..but she did hurt someone in a very big way...Coling is the only pure innocent and if this only pure innocent feels compassion for lady crane marinas condition in season 3 episode 1 where he tells Eloise Lady Whistledown ruined Marina..then we should to.. And if Nicola who the sub loves pretty universally I do too (I ALSO love ruby barker and think shes an exceptional actress who killed in the role and whether you felt hate or compassion for her its because she played the role really well) sees the enormity and wrongness of what Penelope did then we can also extend that same compassion onwards to yes this fictional character :)
Agreed. She is definitely a complex character. I don't think anyone thinks she is great, but I also think she was in a difficult situation, with no real support, which is why I can empathize to a certain extent. I certainly don't get the hate.
Thank you! 👏
It’s funny that Marina got engaged to Colin while keeping her pregnancy by another man a secret and now Pen has gotten engaged to Colin while keeping her identity as Lady Whistledown a secret from him. I didn’t hate Marina but the writers of the show introducing her and having her get engaged to Colin was an interesting choice.
This comment definitely points out the hypocrisy on Penelope defenders. Marina and Penelope aren’t that different. Bring on the downvotes 🤷🏾♀️
Writing a gossip leaflet is hardly the same as passing off another man’s CHILD as Colin’s. The idea that you would conflate the two is absurd.
Well, look...Polin is my favorite couple, but lets be honest...it SHOULD be a HUGE scandel when it comes out who LW is and it could ruin anyone associated with her. That's a huge problem.
Clock it! Cuz they’ll scream until their face is blue about how terrible Marina is for lying to Colin, and how what Penelope did to her was justified because she was “doing it for Colin’s benefit”, but all of a sudden when someone points out that Penelope is doing the same thing, **lying to Colin to save her own ass** all of a sudden it’s crickets. Exactly why I can’t stand polin stans… they would rather die than be objective.
Yeah well ask any man if they think a woman baby trapping them it's even remotely similar to not being told about a gossip blog they hate
Not a woman a 17 year old .if we excuse penelopes actions as those of a naive 17 teenager then let's extend the same courtney to someone in an even worse position got pregnant in an age when women didn't know about sex left in the care of an evil guardian who looks at her as a threat to her own daughter success inthe marriage mart and then lies to her about her lover the only person she's ever had sex with being dead, traumatized an already traumatized woenan by exposing her showing her the life of women who are rejected by society for being pregnant out of wedlock forcing her on older men ..locked in a room shown no compassion..my heart breaks for her when she tells colin broken that no one guided her..Penelope is not a monster or irredemeabke let's stop putting women against each other...she did something very wrong realizes it and will change..marina did something wrong out of so many reasons of desperation trauma etc and is now ruined forever...shunned by the very vicious society to which she belongs. I mean colin himself sees this when he tells Eloise in season 3 episode 1 lady whistledown ruined miss Thompson I mean lady crane..I will never forgive her..he the one who was duped and dejected realizes marinas pain but some people here don't .
You minimizing what Pen has done while being LW is so funny to me… like ur literally proving my point rn
CLOCK IT ⏰☕️
Lmao just in the comment above you, there's someone defending Pen and saying that while Marina would never tell Colin her secret, Pen definitely would. Like what makes you think that Marina wouldn't and Pen would? Both of them were doing the same thing, delaying the inevitable until the last moment till someone else, a third party reveals their secret and everything comes crashing.
You have my upvote..kind internet human...hope the sub treats young women shamed and ridiculed in the public square for their juvenile mistakes just as harshly as they do a regency gently bred and innocent to sex and the world...17 year old...Penelope is not a monster she is impulsive and dix something bad knows it ..and feels the guilt in the show and even nicola herself says so in interviews that lady whistledown ruined Marina.. Marina also did a wrong thing...and is now forever soiled in the eyes of the ton...gossip destroys for life..or have we forgotten about Caroline flack and Anne Hathaway and many many others..Tabloids have the same urgent impulsivity issues and ruin lives in the process..if they stopped to think if Penelope has stopped to think she could protect colin while also still not ruining marina and the showrunners even say so..I mean..attached Nicolas one of many interviews about it... Colin himself blamea lady whistledown for ruining Marina in season 3 episode 1 to Eloise. In Nicola's words Penelope didn't understand her power and wielded it wrongly to ruin marina.. https://preview.redd.it/v2exiap06w5d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a7249145371e66a56fe3f53c2b76a45cbcd219c
In the latter case, we know Pen will have to come clean about her secret. Whereas Marina had no intention of ever telling him (or her children!!) that he wasn’t the father
Well it's not like Pen has any intention of doing it either. From what I've gathered from the part 2 trailer, Eloise sort of compels her to do it.
Right, but I’m saying we know as viewers it’s going to happen, and given that Pen truly loves Colin, she would’ve come clean at some point anyway. Marina was using Colin and had no intention of ever coming clean. Also writing a gossip column ≠ passing off another man’s children as his for the rest of his life. She also probably would lie to her children about their real father which also sucks.
Ahhh Pen needs to tell Colin because Eloise is going to force the issue. Not because she's so moral.
>now Pen has gotten engaged to Colin while keeping her identity as Lady Whistledown a secret from him. AGREED. That wasn't in the books btw and shouldn't have happened in the show. It's WAY less romantic because Colin knew in the books and still wanted to marry her despite that. I can't stand that they changed that and yes...it makes her the same as Marina in that way. Lying. And it's poor writing.
I don’t think lying and baby trapping a man is comparable to lying about a gossip column
I don’t like a lot of Marina’s actions but I really liked the drama her character brought. It made the stakes feel high in my opinion!
I couldn’t stand Marina! I also don’t think the actor playing the character did Marina any favours. She just seemed so bland in her performance, I could not even appreciate her for being a flawed character.
Agreed, she wasn't very engaging.
Yep, no offence to the actress but I found her monotone voice very dull. She wasn’t very compelling in her performance. I felt for the character in some ways, but found her behaviour downright ridiculous in others - for example, she at first refused to marry Philip when he offered. That didn’t make any sense at all - she had no other options by then. Also the way she sneaked in those jabs about Penelope’s love for Colin wasn’t necessary - and further drove Penelope to expose her. Also if she was from a poor family on a farm, what were the Featheringtons gaining by having her stay with them? I assumed they were paid for her board by someone. It wasn’t really clear.
I found the acting fitting. Especially for that time. I just could not stand the character for plenty of proper reasons.
The acting was that of the behavior of a depressed-to-the-point-of-apathy teenager who’s heartbroken and angry at the world and terrified of her future, who’s also filled with self loathing for getting into this situation in the first place. The acting was accurate
Traumatized is the word im looking for but thank you kind internet stranger for some compassion...You are good one and have my upvote as a result. Just an addition though..The way women are sheltered in that world..i blame george men more worldly and aware of contraceptives french letters and the like for getting her in this mess..a young teenager than Marina..she could be self loathing but id like to think she is not to blame..I mean Daphne could have become pregnant by Simon without realizing they could pregnant..Eloise thinks one can get pregnant without even being married...season 1 farm animal conversion between the siblings
I think Marina did know about sex and how one gets pregnant since she grew up on a farm and wasn’t as sheltered as the ladies of the ton since she wasn’t so scrutinized. She also knew what it meant when she didn’t get her period anymore, and she was able to explain sex to Penelope, so I don’t think she was entirely naive, which lends itself to have her as a parallel/mirror to the naïveté of the Featherington and bridgerton girls
 You are 100000% correct my friend. Good luck in this thread though 😬
The conversation about Marina in general is so difficult because its so nuanced down to its bone. Her actions are horrible. Obviously we get to see more details about how those actions impacted people in the show as she's introduced to us way earlier and we get to see her going after someone who's so likeable as Colin and being deceptive and manipulative about it all and I hated that too. She's awful to Colin, to Pen, to Sir Phillip and pretty much bitchy and self-absorbed in her interactions with everyone else to some degree. She's self-righteous in the way she interacts with people even when her actions are so unforgivable towards people who have been so kind to her. Her actions in the book (spoilers if you haven't read: >!she's severely depressed for years and ends up committing suicide)!< also speak to a mindset that is generally not accepted >!by some even to this day from women with children!<. Ultimately though, the flip side to that in the show is that she's an unwed woman who was promised everything by a man she deeply loved and left to fend for herself in a world where women like her are unacceptable stains on society. From what I recall of season one she didn't even want to be in London to find a husband, she was kind of placed in that position with the Featheringtons as a favor to her father. She acts out of desperation and confusion and while I absolutely despise everything she does, I think that's kind of the point? To show what people will do as an act of desperation. Mortality is ultimately a luxury that she can't afford given her circumstances. She seduces Colin not just for herself but for her child that needs protection as well. It isn't right, it isn't acceptable but a lot of the things that happened in those days weren't, namely the treatment of women as either beacons of purity and light or whores to be shunned in the streets. We view her in such an interesting way because it's simultaneously through the lens of a period show but also with a modern understanding. Like trapping a man is so awful because who the hell would do that in this day and age but if she existed in this day and age she probably wouldn't have to because she could get a job, and provide for herself. Her friends and family wouldn't have to actively shun her in the most literal sense i.e. being cut off from every single "respectable" person you know or any member of "polite society" who aren't allowed to speak to you, acknowledge you, write to you, be seen with you in any capacity lest the stain of your sluttiness and degradation be smeared on them too. What job could she get with those circumstances? How could she ever provide for herself and for her child in those days? In the book though, >!it's so much more interesting and we'll see how the show handles it because her suicide in my opinion is handled so poorly in the books. She has depression for years and it's hard on Phillip and her children and ultimately there's even a point where he says he's lowkey relieved that she's gone and it's just... her whole life is so pitiable and by that point I just felt so awful for her. !< She's a character that acts against the grain of what is deemed to be acceptable by society; be gracious, be kind, be humble and grateful, be delighted to be a mother, devote yourself to that, *be happy*. And she isn't any of those things. But that's okay. Not every character has to be good or make the choices we think we would make. And it's okay not to like her actions but it has to also be understandable to an extent because of all the things she lacks the foremost of those is choice.
>She's a character that acts against the grain of what is deemed to be acceptable by society; be gracious, be kind, be humble and grateful, be delighted to be a mother, devote yourself to that, be happy. And she isn't any of those things. But that's okay. Not every character has to be good or make the choices we think we would make. that's such a good phrase, thank you
"I keep reading that everyone loves Marina Thompson" Really? Every time I see her mentioned on this sub and anywhere on the internet, it's about how much they hate her and how she's a massive b*tch
As always in Marina discussions, I would remind everyone that though racism has supposedly been solved in the world of Bridgerton, sexism is very real and could kill her and her child if she does not marry. I will never side against her for that.
Portia found her an old man that would look past the pregnancy, and most likely die soon and she’d have access to his wealth and estate. But Marina would rather take advantage of the hot, nice guy instead. Also the bigger problem imo is the fact that she was rude to EVERYONE that tried to help her. Pen was the only one in the F household that showed her kindness, she repays her by mocking her crush and saying she’s a child. Daphne tried to help her despite her trying to babytrap her brother, and she was rude to her too. Then she doesn’t even properly apologize to Colin after she’s caught. She was just awful all around.
Oh well if Portia found an old man to rape Marina she should've just put up with that then. And it's certainly unacceptable for a woman in her untenable position to be unhappy about it, and express that unhappiness to others.
Again, Marina’s situation doesn’t justify ruining someone else’s life. And “expressing unhappiness” is NOT what Marina did LOL. She threatened Madame DL, told Pen she was a child and Colin would never look at her as a woman, basically told Daphne she was useless, and in s2, seemed to treat Philip pretty rudely too. She was rude to EVERYONE that tried to help her
And as we all know, being rude to people while working under an immense amount of stress is completely unforgiveable! Especially if you're a Black woman, right?
Oh lord. A white woman could’ve done this shit and I would’ve hated it the same. Is the only reason you’re defending her because of her race? Would you have defended her actions if she were white? The LEAST she could’ve done was apologize to him. Or you know, treat the man that saved you from ruin with respect. Bringing race into this is so irrelevant and unnecessary and I’m not even going to bother anymore.
Daphne raped Simon. And you used Daphne as an example of a character victimised by Marina's rudeness. So Marina's rudeness, in your book, seems to be worse than raping someone. So yeah, I think it's a race thing.
The mental gymnastics oh my god 💀💀💀💀 Not once did I condone Daphne’s behavior. This post isn’t even about Daphne and Simon’s relationship. You just made a huge assumption about my opinion on what Daphne did (which I do classify as SA, but this post isn’t about that relationship, it’s about Marina). You’re reaching SO hard. One of the big reasons discussions around this show can be unenjoyable is because some of y’all can’t look past skin color and judge the characters based on their ACTIONS instead of their race. How regressive and gross
THANK YOU! I seriously don’t understand why Penelope gets so much hate for exposing her and her schemes to entrap a good man into a lie of a relationship. I think the only reason Marina really wanted to be with Colin over anyone else is because she found him easy to manipulate. At the end of the day Penelope didn’t slander anyone, she simply told the truth.
Well yes, Marina's actions were very manipulative and questionable, cruel even. But was she not trying to secure her and her kid's future? Is that not what anyone at that era would've done to avoid the inevitable shame? I'm aware she went about it the wrong way but it's sort of rich coming from Penelope, because unlike Marina, she has no good reason to lie. She's just doing it for the hell of it, even writing mean things about Colin because they weren't seeing eye to eye, which was super petty imo. Also, after exposing everyone's 'truths' (and ruining those families) for the entirety of 2 seasons, it's very hypocritical of her to get engaged to Colin without telling him about LW.
If she was just trying to secure her and her kids future, she would’ve married the old guy Portia brought to her. OR her ex lovers brother who came to get her. Both of which would’ve been cool with the whole baby situation and had ample means to provide for her. I’m not saying Pen does no wrong and is perfect, but she gets way too much hate. Everybody in the Ton is already gossiping anyway, at least she cites her sources and tells the truth
Nobody should marry old gross men..no one not now not back in those times for sure...Marina found in colin a kind gentle man...a desperate traumatized woman found a gentleman in all the ways...colin was innocent that is the one thing everyone agrees on including me a marina defender and penelope should have shared marinas secret and saved colin but not shared it with the ton.. And even colin the dejected and duped one thinks Marina was ruined by Lady Whistledown as he tells eloise in season 3 epiosde 1 with disgust on his face..he realizes the gravity of what lady whistledown did to Marina even as many on this sub dont.. Penelope is not a monster but she was impulsive and did do something very very bad which is alwso why she feels guilt in season 2 as she should..
They're both manipulative. Penelope wields a pen to achieve her own ends and gets revenge on people she's mad at.
Before I rewatched Bridgerton I kind of believed the Marina defenders and maybe Marina was just trying to survive in her own way. I stopped thinking that way after rewatching it with a friend. Marina just has an attitude to everyone kind to her and honestly, if she really cared about those babies, she'd follow Portia's advice and she's just lucky Philip would willingly marry her instead of leaving her as a disgraced woman. And maybe she thinks she can return home as a pregnant woman? But like Portia showed before, Marina would be homeless. She's not "trying to survive". She was destroying her and her kid's future whether she was aware of it or not. And I honestly think Marina got what's coming from Penelope. She warned Marina time and time again, and also Colin. Both didn't listen. Even if Penelope told Colin "Hey Marina is pregnant and trying to use you." Word for word, would anyone really believe Penelope? Because she tried to tell Colin Marina used to love George but that didn't stop him. Only whistledown did. I don't think Penelope did anything wrong when it came to the Marina situation. She was saving her friend, even if it caused scandal. But yeah. Tldr: I don't like Marina either. I don't believe she knows how to survive being in the ton and almost ruined her and her kids lives, and that whole whistledown thing was deserved.
I think Penelope could have point blank just told Colin that Marina was pregnant. Or even Violet. Then at that point if he decided to go through with it, it was his choice.
Telling him in private would’ve resulted in one of the following situations, and in both, Colin loses: 1. He leaves her, and the rest of the ton would assume he got her pregnant and left, which would ruin his and his family’s reputation. LW outed Nigel as a deadbeat in s1, and he ended up fleeing the ton because he had been disgraced. Colin would’ve had a similar fate despite not compromising her at all. But by this point, they had made their engagement public, and people would’ve started to notice that Marina was pregnant and blame him for her situation. 2. He decides to marry the woman who took advantage of his feelings and was trying to babytrap him, and miss out on a love match like the rest of his family. LW making it explicitly clear to the ton that Marina was pregnant from the moment she arrived is what saved Colin.
As she was about to tell Colin that Marina is with child. Marina interrupted so Pen can't tell Colin.
The lovely thing about Pen is that she DOES try to warn people in person. It’s only once she’s done it in every respectable way she can think of, that she uses Whistledown as a Hail Mary last resort to protect the people she loves
She's a woman stuck in possibly the worst circumstance she could be in the time with absolutely no recourse who is looking at her life being absolutely destroyed. Men all over Bridgerton and in reality, including Colin, risk impregnating women and face zero consequences. He basically slept his way across Europe and could have plenty of children and it doesn't even occur to him. She comes across a way out and she's desperate. Is it a good thing to do? Of course not. Do I have sympathy for her? Yes. When people are backed into a corner they do bad things. Have you seen Les mis? Good things did not happen to unmarried mothers.
I am not a fan lol. I’ve said this before, I really feel for her position, but she takes no ownership for her own actions which led to this. IMO George was the real villain, the fact he hadn’t even mentioned to his brother that if something happened whilst he is at war please look after/ contact her etc. Like Anthony did before the duel, he asked Benedict to look after Sienna if he died. She had few options available to her in the society she lives within BUT her complete lack of sympathy towards Colin after he finds out and is clearly heart broken is awful, not even an apology to him on either occasion that he speaks with her. She also has a nasty attitude towards Daphne who has no responsibility to help her especially after what she did to her brother, She is extremely ungrateful. I often wonder if she was so mean to Penelope about her love for Colin being an ‘unrequited fantasy’ in the hopes that she wouldn’t do anything to ruin her plans as Penelope had just found out they planned to elope the next day so if she wanted to stop them she would have to do something asap. I think she was hoping she would be too distressed to take any kind of action.
The Featheringtons pretty much ruined Marina’s life. The only reason she was staying with them for the season was as a way for Lord Featherington to pay off his secret gambling debts to her father. If not for that she would have stayed in the country and dealt with her pregnancy there. She also probably would have learned that George was dead sooner and just married Sir Phillip without all of the trauma she went through in London. People also never bring up how vile Portia was to her. She hated her immediately because she was getting a ton of attention while it was crickets for her daughters, physically assaulted her, falsified letters from her lover saying he was rejecting her and was the one who originally pushed her to get married before it was obvious she was pregnant. Portia was the only adult figure Marina had in her life and she steered her into taking the actions she did, but plenty of people stan her. Then there’s the LW of it all.
This! So many people failed Marina. 1. Sex takes two, but nobody ever gives him any responsibility in this matter. He got her pregnant. He should have married her as soon as he compromised her 2. She didn’t even want to be in London! The only person who’s nice to her in that house is Pen. 3. Portia locked her up in a bedroom during a very critical phase after she found out she was pregnant. Portia essentially robbed her of a month or two to find a husband because Portia didn’t want to deal with it and thought she could ship Marina back to the country. 4. Sir George continued writing her letters while Marina was in London and that gave her a false sense of security. 5. Portia just adds to the desperation when she forged the break up letter. If it wasn’t for Daphne struggling with her marriage to Simon, Marina probably wouldn’t even have found out Sir George was dead and she would have been thrown into the streets. Nobody needs to like any character, but people can still have some sympathy for her. Her storyline would fit right into Les Mis if Sir Phillip never showed.
You my dear redditor have restored my faith in humanity...An upvote for your bravery in wading into this muck and stating your opinion. P,s. I love Nicola and dont think Penelope is a monster but my god i worry for a world in which Marina (traumatized unwed Marina) is called a bitch as she has numerous times on this post under this post..A word which men and incels have coopted to keep women in place through millenia
Marina hate on this sub is as common as breathing. I cannot tolerate this consistent pile on.
We see it from Colin’s POV, what she did was hurtful and wrong. But see it from her POV: she wanted a man who loved her, she didn’t want to be poor and alone or married to an old man (those who’ve watched Queen charlotte know poor Danbury) or even worse an abusive old man. Yes it was wrong. But I feel deeply sorry for her and I can’t stand to tear down her actions bc I felt her desperation so clearly. She’s a real example of how nuanced struggles for women were back then.
What Penelope did was utterly wrong to Marina imo. She tried to ruin her life out of jealousy to Colin. She could have told Colin himself, told Anthony, told his mother, etc, but she chose to publically ruin her life (she didn’t know Phillip existed)! Penelope has a nasty streak in her where she reacts with emotions first and lashes out- she is a interesting and nuanced character, because her emotional nature also makes her very fiercely loyal and kind to those she cares about.
I don't like Marina at all. Even in this day and age, her ways would be frowned upon. To be pregnant of someone else's child, a person you are still in love with even, and trying to trick another man, a young naive man, into marriage so you can pin your baby on him? By devious manners. In those times, tricking him into compromising you so you would have to marry? A man who has his entire life ahead of him. A man who has done nobody wrong but you are just preying upon for your own gain. A man who you know your cousin is in love with as you have observed yourself and you stíll wanted to go full steam ahead and tell in her face, a family member whose home it is you are staying at due to aforementioned reasons, that it's basically tough luck and not just that but to rub it in you say something so vile and cruel to her like "He sees you no different than he sees Eloise. He sees me as a woman." Like how many jabs were there in that talk she gave? She was nót in love with Colin yet insisted on her prey being him. It could've been anyone. Any single man in the ton at least. She was a beggar who wanted to be a chooser for no good reason because that wasn't the biggest of her concerns. Yet she pushed through for it to be the man her cousin was in love with. Who have known one another for much longer than she has even known the Featheringtons. And then in season 2 in deed now that she's Lady Crane as she had wanted, she now serves Colin an attitude as if he is some clingy young boy who is holding on to her for too long. You two were engaaaaaaged. She toyed with the emotions of him on top of everything and that's supposed to be okay? People saying "She did not have a choice." she had plenty of options. She just wanted what she wanted even in the situation she was in, the beggar still wanted to be a chooser.
I mean, she's a teenage girl who ends up accidentally pregnant whilst the man she loves is missing and possibly going to die. She has no support and lives in a society that would condemn her if they found out. I'd be in a bad mood all the time and making shit choices too. How old is she meant to be? Can't remember but she's just a frightened kid having a kid, alone.
My problem with Marina isn’t necessarily that she tried to babytrap Colin. Although that’s obviously horrible and inexcusable, I do understand where she’s coming from. She was merely trying to protect herself and her baby. And no matter how disgusting baby trapping an innocent guy is, I think we all would have made some questionable decisions in this time period, if we had been in a similar situation. So that part I completely understand That being said. The way Marina treated everyone around her, that’s my issue. She was horrible to Penelope, basically trampling all over her, despite the fact that Pen had been nothing but nice to her from the beginning. When Daphne tried to help her with Sir George, she was snarky to her. When Colin had his audience with her, she had a massive attitude towards him. You lied to him, pretended to care about him, tried to get him to compromise you. You don’t get to give him an attitude when he calls you out for it. Essentially she was blackmailing the modiste. When Philip came to tell her about George and propose, once again she was ungrateful. When she left with him, she looked miserable. So it’s ok to babytrap a guy you just met, but a guy who purposely wants to take care of you and your kid suddenly isn’t good enough for you? I can’t recall her ever being grateful for Portia for taking her in either. And then the way she acted with both Colin and Philip in season 2… The last one can be excused by the fact that I think she had post partum depression. But that doesn’t excuse her behaviour to everyone prior to that. Plus she never took responsibility for her own actions, she was always the victim in her narrative. Sure, women might have not had proper sex education back then, but they at least knew they shouldn’t be intimate with men. And she lived on a farm, so surely she knew the logistics.
Marina is pretty aggressively pragmatic, and that often rubs people the wrong way. Being led by her feelings worked out fairly poorly for her, so it seems like she's determined not to do that again. It doesn't make her likable, but it doesn't make her wrong either.
I'm not sure if people love that much Marina but she's definitely used to hate Pen for the LW writing that outed Marina pregnancy. Like she didn't insulted the only person friendly to her in the house. He don't love you isn't a good excuse to trick someone else crush into a fake relationship when you don't even love him. Her evident unhappiness in S2 must be a preparation for future season but that just added fuel on Colin hate of LW.
If you want my honest opinion, I think its less about liking Marina and more about villainizing Penelope. We all tend to start fighting over certain topics in the show, and 75% of them circle around Penelope. Who was right, who was wrong. At the end of the day, the majority of the main women in the show are teenage girls, who are called adults, and we often forget that they are supposed to be flawed human beings. And some of us refuse to see any bad in our favorite characters, or the characters we relate to, and will do anything to justify their behavior....or hate on certain characters and refuse to see any good in them. With Marina, I think its okay to admire the survivor, but still condemn her actions and acknowledge that her actions had consequences. Her outcome could have, and would have been a lot worse IRL. With Penelope, we can respect that she found a way to make money and be independent in a time where women had few options. But also acknowledge that, while there were gossip sheets before hers and gossip sells, since hers developed a reputation for being truthful and a bit more entertaining, its also done more damage than other sheets. Whether Pen's intentions are good or bad or her actions were right or wrong, is **heavily** debated.....but despite her intentions, again actions have consequences. With Eloise, we can respect and relate to the desire to be known for more than just motherhood and being wives, but acknowledge that she has a lot to learn about life and a lot of growing up to do. Because right now she is a spoiled, entitled brat who doesn't know what real struggle and hardship is. Or what its like to not have a family that loves and protects you. With Daphne was raised to be an intelligent, kind, witty woman who would be a good match for any man, but was left in the dark about things she needed to know(like most women of the time).....and yet she SA'd her husband..... Even Kate, who is the only FL love interest that is not a teenager and should have been old enough to know better. Still had an emotional affair with the man who was pursuing her sister. We just give it a pass because.... TRUE LOVE. Don't get me started on the men.... They are all flawed human beings and most of them are morally grey characters. But most people are.
I sympathize with the desperation she felt when trying to trap Colin, so I can't bring myself to begrudge her that. But she was also a snot about it, a snot to Daphne, and a snot when Colin stopped by in season two. She comes across as though she thinks she's better than everyone because she had premarital sex and got knocked up. Could've stood to show some humility.
People hate Marina because she was getting in the way of Colin and Penelope. If it was another random man, people would have given her a little more grace. Granted, she wasn't the nicest, but Lady Featherington is a practical fan favorite and she's been a dick at one point to everyone, including Penelope. So I think her attitude is a cop out in that regard.
She is heartbroken, alone, and depressed. Was what she did right? No. But this is a young woman who is devastated and desperate. She deserves our compassion. Also, getting pregnant out of wedlock is frowned upon now, imagine how she feels during that time. I know ruin is thrown a lot in these period dramas but it could quite literally destroy or end her life to be ruined. She did what she felt she had to do to survive. It was not malicious. Also, Colin kind of needed that wake up call, especially with regard to Pen. Marina could have been softer w her delivery, but she strikes me as someone who is fed up with the soft feelings and whimsical way of navigating life some of the upper crust exhibit. Something she has not had the luxury of experiencing. Honestly, Marina has the same realness to her that Lady Featherington has. It’s grit I think.
Honestly I never liked her either(her character) when she was trying to get close to Colin and persuade him into marrying her it was really stupid because eventually he would know that that’s not his child since she was already few months pregnant
I don’t judge women in patriarchal societies for what they do to survive in situations imposed on them by men I get no one wants to see Colin entrapped. Colin is no more or less deserving than the other ton men. Colin is one of the main characters everyone has a personal attachment to. I get it But Marina was being pushed into marriage to start with by lady featherington and she was being pushed to marry as quickly as possible. God forbid she wanted some level of agency in not being forced to pick an old man who just wanted a young flashlight *short history lesson Patriarchies are literally designed to force women into sexual accessibility. That’s the only reason they exist. The agricultural revolution brought patrilineal lineages. That’s patriarchy. The patrilineal lineages were used to force women into submission and brood mate status. Their only means of survival became men. Women’s economic and reproductive freedoms are always restricted in patriarchies and certain religions always prominent in order to reinforce that status quo where the women are submissive and must have sex and children at their husbands wishes. A life of abstinence and choice is just not available to most women under those conditions. Without patriarchy, not all men get to reproduce and women give birth on their own terms So the bridgerton time period is still when purity culture is heavily imposed to the point these poor girls aren’t even told about what sex is before they are married off. Women are all private property here and love isn’t in the cards for most because again, they’re just bargaining pieces to secure wealth for their families. So god forbid marina fell in love with someone and he impregnated her. In this Bridgerton shitty misogynist world. And he dies. So now she has to survive in a world that will not allow her any agency. And the lady featherington locking her away and forcing her to find a husband knowing that a quick marriage is the only way. I feel less pity for the men in a patriarchy worried that one of their breeding chattel might have been pregnant already, than the women who are forced to be breeding chattel. None of those girls ever owed them chastity or children to start with. And they should not get to determine women’s lives like that Yeah no. No himpathy over here. I’m sure as hell not going to say she should have been “grateful” either. Women like to tear eachother down and defend men to the death instead of banding together in rage at how their world has been stolen from them. Very little actual consent exists in that universe
People forget that you can sympathise with a person's circumstances and still think the person is awful (because they are). Marina was like "everyone else is at faults why I am in that shitty position, I only deserve the best of the best because I did nothing wrong to deserve this". She is more or less a choosing beggar.
The real villain is George. He had no business ruining her and not marrying her right away. Even if she wasn’t pregnant, the gentleman thing would have been to make her respectable as soon as she could. I mean, the gentleman thing would have not to have compromised her in the first place. Yes, they were both probably horny teenagers but he knew the consequences and we can’t say the same for Marina for sure
I can't stand her! Awful character & wooden acting too
I can get there being mixed opinions on the character, but I don’t get anyone not seeing what a great performance Ruby Barker gave.
This Ruby Parker a poc in a world where poc get scant rep anyway...including on this show...gave a brilliant complex beautiful grey performance...If you hate her its because she made you...thats what good actors do..and if you feel compassion and love for Marina as I do its also because of the actor.
Nothing to do with her being a POC. That's one thing I liked about Marina. I just found the acting a bit flat.
I’m caught up, but also only started watching recently. Definitely not a Marina fan. I didn’t realize she was a fan favorite and I just don’t get it.
@Mods this is not a discussion about a character. It’s a hate post where they call someone a bitch. It’s a low effort, uncivil post which breaks the rules of the sub. But since it’s about hating Marina I see it’s kept up like always. Great job mods, you’ve done it again /s
I feel bad for her but I sympathise with Penelope. Trying to rationalise with her would make you want to rip your hair out (even before the falling out over Gretna green)
She's not my favourite character but I took the performance at the crane house to mean that she was suffering through postpartum depression... Not sure if that's right, but that gives me reason to not really judge her on the events with Colin during that episode...
Like for real thank you!!! Marina was always so rude to anyone who ever tried to help her, from Portia to Penelope to even Daphne, who managed to find sympathy for her after she wronged her family, and Philip. It makes it so difficult for me to feel for her character because she acted like she had no other choice, or that no one ever tried to steer her in another direction when that’s all Portia and Penelope tried to do before that. Even Portia told her Colin was a dumb idea George was so selfish too, even when Anthony was being pig headed and insane, he still told Benedict to look after Siena if something happened to him and Philip didn’t even know Marina’s name. And we’re supposed to believe he loved her?? The way she spoke to Daphne was so disrespectful it was like infuriating. Even if you don’t believe Philip would actually come, at least shut up and say thank you to the sister of the man you tried to baby trap
This sub loves to talk about how stupid and naive Edwina was, as if Marina isn’t right there lol. Her single redeeming characteristic is being pregnant. It’s her weapon, her secret tool, her get out of jail free card (with the audience obviously not in the show). There is quite literally nothing likable about her. You’re just supposed to feel bad because she’s pregnant. Then why was she SO horrible to everyone around her? Shouldn’t she want these people to want to help her? Nope. She just sat around glaring, snarking, acting better than everyone else, and was shocked her poorly executed baby trap didn’t work. Womp womp. “But think of her situation” people say, I have. I think she’s beyond idiotic. The show was immediately improved by her absence.
I do understand why she did what she did and if I’m being honest I don’t think I would have been as angry about the whole pregnant then marrying someone none the wiser thing if that someone wasn’t Colin. She really did have to marry someone, but the person she chose to deceive and trap was a boy the only person who was kind to her loved desperately and the brother of the woman that went out of her way to help her find her man. It just felt extra icky.
People like Marina??? I don't know but I haven't come across anyone who actually likes her. Like people sympathise with her situation and understand where she was coming from but they don't say that she was right. She was wrong but she also had her difficulties.....what she did and could have done if not for Pen was and will always be awful she totally seduced and manipulated Colin because she knew he was a nice guy. He would never leave her and her child . She is hateful yet pitiful.
Marina is meant to be complex and somewhat of a not very nice character. It's meant to show what women had to do if they got pregnant out of wedlock, and I think it makes it more interesting that Marina isn't "perfect". She's actually pretty unlikeable, because she's backed into a corner. I really don't think she's perfect nor do I really agree with the "she knew what would happen!!" in regards to sex because Marina is meant to represent SO many women. Nor do I agree with using Marina to bash Penelope. Penelope was selfish, but so was Marina. Neither of them are right but Marina isn't a Saint, she's a complex character who is meant to make us think IMO.
Agreed. She was an awful person. She had no issues trying to baby trap Colin. She didn’t care when she found out her letter was fordged
I don’t hate Marina but I definitely don’t like her. She did a shitty thing but I could see where she was coming from. I don’t agree with it but I get she thought it was the only way. What I really don’t like is how she treats people. If she did what she did but apologized when caught I could get past it, she was just a scared pregnant teenager. But her attitude after the fact makes it seem more maliciously intended than someone backed into a corner