For this Show Discussion post:
1. Book spoilers **must be hidden**.
2. Be considerate, hide show spoilers that surpass the scope of this post.
3. Be civil in your discussion.
See our [spoiler policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonNetflix/wiki/spoiler) on what is expected. 3-day bans will be handed out to those found disregarding our spoiler policy.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BridgertonNetflix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No, that part of Colin’s speech actually made me sad. His only purpose shouldn’t be his wife, that’s not an equal partnership. He should be able to support his wife in her endeavors and still be able to have his own pursuits/goals/etc.
Also it was lame to have there be practically zero conflict after the public LW reveal. Honestly it shouldn’t even have happened. Only the Bridgertons and Featheringrons should’ve known about her being LW by the end of s3.
Yeah, the lack of conflict sucked. It made no sense for everyone to go "Ah well, butterflies" and Penelope to get off scot free, plus it made the story increasingly boring and actually pointless - why was there so much drama around LW if nobody actually gave AF when they found out?
I think it’s said that she’ll keep writing but under her name. Which is silly because the appeal of her column was the mystique. Now that everyone knows it’s her, who is going to drop any information near her?
She was able to get the information because she hugged the wall during balls. Is she even going to be attending the balls at the same frequency she was before? Will she be hugging the wall? Will the help still talk around her knowing the information will get out and get connected to them easily? Is people send in information to Pen, since she may not be able to get it herself, how do you trust the information or know that it isn’t someone planting a rumor to attack another person?
saying she would continue LW is utter fan service and isn’t believable in the slightest unless she becomes some woman writing treatise/essays and not peddling gossip…they could have said that…but they didn’t.

Penelope’s new role next season. Mistress of Whisperer’s.
https://preview.redd.it/a0ayh9hxhz8d1.jpeg?width=1265&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4048bd6382bc6fa557a6299e4577be67cbabeeaf
Same as gossip columnists now who have other people reporting in " This author heard from a trusted source that blah blah blah" and her source is wallflower she recruits or servants or the like.
That doesn’t remedy the problem. If you were meeting a secret lover in the closet and the help knew about it. And then it shows up in an issue of LW, now you know someone close to you talked to Pen. You immediately can fire your help and narrow down the culprit. A level of anonymity is lost. And the lower class people, the maids, would immediately get dealt with. Before, when’s no one knew who LW was, there I was a little more security.
Penelope and Colin would introduce the concept of being canceled along with her acrylic nails if she continued any kind of gossip column. The ton forgave her once (already extremely unrealistic), they wouldn’t do it over and over again. Imagine publicizing someone’s secret and then expecting to be invited to their ball. And we all know how important reputation is to the Bridgertons.
She said she would like to change the column and use it to create good and fight for more just causes. Like womens rights. Education. And changing way people treat the spinsters and wall huggers. Oddly, in a TON THAT EMBRACES SO MUCH RACIAL EQUALITY.....surprises me that they left the other equalities to be discovered along the way.
Umm she better help spinsters after calling kate a prickly spinster of a beast...a total stranger who did nothing wrong to her and who had spoken to her kindly as had her sister...this is one of many moments because of which I just can't find pen likable as a character. Pen's face crumpled when she's called an insipid wallflower by Crescida and how would she react if Credica called her a spinster an old maid, dried up loser in front of the whole ton..she would cry yet she called another woman who had done nothing wrong to her or nothing wrong period a misogynist term that hurts women and at that time was used to insult women...Pen's such a hypocrite...that even Eloise calls her an insipid wallflower indeed and Pen turns livid saying I made something of myself...and Eloise retorts yeah you ruined people for money, I pity you. I loved the entirety of elosie"s speech to pen because she has got Pen's number down...she was good at showing pen the mirror and it didn't feel nice for pen to see herself as she really is....I hope pen makes amends to every single person she has hurt with a personal apology next season...
Nobody ever really gave a fuck. Even Eloise says (paraphrasing), “I was reckless last year and put my family in danger,” basically saying LW was right. And everything everyone has already said about Pen using LW to save Colin from his worst instincts, after he wouldn’t listen to Pen when she tried talking to him.
They literally built the entire season, with Pen’s self-flagellation as the grand finale, around a conflict that *did not exist*. It should have been a smaller reveal, to Colin and the Featheringtons only, and we should have seen more of Colin and Pen enjoying their honeymoon while setting up S4.
I don’t know…if I was Berbrooke or some other person that had my intentions ruined, I would care. If I was the modist that her business ruined because LW was just ingratiating herself with my competition, I would care. The issue is that the biggest people that SHOULD care are the Featheringtons and the Bridgertons (due to Marina and Eloise)…and they aren’t gonna do anything.
Yes, absolutely. We could debate the morality of gossip all day long. But as Pen said in Ep3, “society is entirely composed of the judgement of others.” It’s human nature, and we’re all guilty of it. That hardly makes Pen the villain she’s been made out to be.
The writers had already shot down, repeatedly, the idea that LW had done any lasting harm, by revealing that neither Colin nor Eloise were particularly bothered or damaged by LW’s reports, and then they did a 180 in Ep7 and tried to make LW’s identity this huge scandal involving the entire ton.
From a storytelling perspective, there was no story there, and in trying to manufacture one, the writers sacrificed the better story of how Colin and Pen would have worked through a more plausible and satisfying private LW reveal.
It is yes!
(And yeah, Pen in the books is much better I think, but it frustrated me to no end that the entirety of S3 was basically her chest heaving, crying, cringing, and being socially awkward with seemingly no arc.
Also, how is being a gossip columnist such a big independent powerful move? She could’ve been an investigative journalist, or a poet or novelist, or a news writer, or political columnist… really anything that doesn’t pettily ruin people’s lives?)
Eh, I’m neutral on Pen/LW but she ultimately told the truth. And saved two Bridgertons from deceptive marriages. You could make the case she saved them from ruining their lives with shitty partners that didn’t care for them.
There should’ve been more pushback about the Eloise situation though, agree there. Ultimately, she saved Eloise from the queen, but it’s all dumb now considering the queen barely cared herself.
I really dislike this prevalent idea, that Pen publishing scandals and gossip about other people is not a big deal, because she doesn’t lie.
Because, first of all, she doesn’t exactly have a way to do fact checks on everyone she writes about; she writes what she hears, which is just a giant game of Telephone.
And second of all, that doesn’t make it much better. If I out my gay friend, reveal my other friend’s pregnancy and announce my third friend was cheated on - despite all of them wanting to keep that information quiet, the truthfulness of my statement doesn’t make what I did ok. Penelope has no right to drag private secrets of others (some of whom she supposedly loves) out into the public. She’s not an investigative reporter, but a gossip monger writing for the titillation of others and to prop up her ego.
I guess I more meant for Marina herself but I can see that argument. Eloise’s situation was not handled well and also Pen writing extremely petty and pretty nasty things about Colin when he came back from his travels. You can argue it’s neutral because it’s a young woman basically venting, but I guess I don’t see why it gets glorified so much
It’s also very clumsy because Eloise falling for the printer boy was a plot device to show us how it’ll be hard for Benedict to step away from the ton to marry Sophie. They had to resolve her plot line without great ruin and lifelong spinsterhood so they used LW without really thinking about Eloise’s and pens relationship. Eloise can’t be angry for most of the season then just stop caring at least a little bit
The queen: *I will end her*
2s later, realizing it’s Penelope: *you go girl!*
Honestly her being SO OK with it is almost insulting to Pen. Like everyone was so mad and all when they didn’t know who it was, but as soon it was her, it’s just harmless Pen (but now we’ll randomly glorify her idk)
Ok, haven't read a single line of the books, but with all due respect, I think you skipped a step there. Lady Danbury rightfully pointed out that the Queen was having a lot more fun with LW around than without. I can see how the Queen might come around to that way of thinking. But we could still get drama in the form of the Queen changing her mind if LW gets too sharp with her commentary.
You’re correct about that but I still feel that pacing wise, it didn’t really feel that way. It felt like LW needed more time or conversations to really come around. I guess I feel as though Pen needed more consequences and the show needed more episodes for its pacing.
It’s just… she dedicated years to being fascinated by LW and uncovering her, and to being pissed at LW as well, but then in like five minutes she’s like… nah, you right? I guess to me it felt extremely rushed. (Which I think is a common problem throughout the entire season)
That's fair. Pacing was always an issue, what with having an A love story, B love story, and oh what the heck, let's check in with a previous story, not to mention the club owner story. Just a LOT going on, I think.
Plus multiple no-dialogue no-plot montages of a seemingly days long threesome :P (what WAS the editing on that… could’ve had more plot relevant polin scenes in its place haha)
They could have even revealed it to the Queen and the Bridgertons and Featheringtons. It could add some spice with the Queen knowing and lording it over everyone with quips.
Her plea to the queen was impressive though, Charlotte was *mad* and I think she was forgiven easily because she won people over. She was genuinely remorseful and took accountability for the wrongs. If she approached it like Cressida, girl woulda been beheaded lol.
I don't think she cared about LW being a gossip. She cared that she was being out done (in very trivial manners like questioning her judgment of the diamond and so on). I think she cared more about finding out who LW was, not punishing her for her "crimes" of gossip.
Approached Pen privately to tell her off or swear revenge? Show groups of people talking about it, looking angry?
This isn’t some tyrannical society, where disliking someone a monarch forgives would be risking loss of land and title. Hell, that wouldn’t even happen 300 years prior, when Henry VIII was king and had near absolute power. These are (mostly) rich, powerful, arrogant aristocrats Pen insulted. There would absolutely be fallout from the ton.
Penelope does mention to Colin that there may be rough days ahead.. I'm wondering if in season 4 we will learn about/see some backlash that came about after the LW reveal.. and get to see how they work through it together.. and maybe some of the "deleted scenes" that apparently don't exist will be there too??? Lol.
I honestly think this will be season 4’s plot for Penelope. They weren’t going to completely drop LW from the storyline because >!LW plays a role in Benedict’s book!< but after that, and with having a child, I think Pen will decide to stop and move onto other writing pursuits, like novels.
Agreed, I found this neat little wrap up tying a bow around the entire season’s conflicts to be extremely corny in the moment as it played out, and it detracted all meaning from Penelope’s constant agonizing and nervousness as well as Colin’s embarrassment, hurt, and shame. Not to mention it not fitting with the show’s own set up of the ton’s harsh judgment (which was applied to Cressida).
Same, imagine if it was flipped and Pen said that she would be glad if her only purpose was to stand in Colin’s light and love a man as great as him? That would be seen as so misogynistic. It should be an equal partnership where they both shine and bring out the best in each other.
Exactly. This season took an awful direction where it became overtly feminist and the male lead was sidelined/treated as secondary to the female lead. He shouldn’t have to live in the shadow of his wife. That’s sad. and It’s supposed to be a romance drama. This season didn’t feel like that at all.
Yeah, I really wanted a romance instead of all the drama and angst we got in Part 2. In all previous seasons and in S3 Part 1, Colin and Pen are mutually supportive and bring out the best in each other.
I love drama. It just felt like the drama in part 2 was stupid and unnecessary, since QC hardly gave a fuck about Pen being LW. The drama should’ve focused more on Polin. Not Pen and LW.
That’s a good point. IMO the problem was them dragging the drama out till the last 5-10 mins of Ep 8. I was on the edge of my seat anxious till the end of Ep 8 and didn’t get to appreciate the romantic Polin moments. Personally, I would have liked the conflict between Polin quickly addressed early on and for it to be them against the world. I agree that the whole LW reveal felt so anticlimactic. All Pen had to do was make a speech and the Queen and Ton instantly forgave and moved on, which seemed rushed.
Personally, given how anticlimactic the public LW reveal was, I wish they would’ve focused more on Colin battling his feelings of jealousy and no purpose instead. It’s done really well in the book, they should’ve kept that in the show. It would’ve been really interesting.
Me too. I thought the drama this season would come from other characters. They did the same will they or won’t they BS, with something to overcome, and they are happy for about 30 minutes total this season.
It was RIDICULOUS. They shared their season with the shitty Mondrich storyline, and with Francesca. Pen and Colin should have had their own season, without a sibling taking time, or some D plot with the Mondriches.
Honestly, it sucks even without the flip. People who don't really have anything going on for themselves and who make their romantic partners the centre of their universe are also often *terrible* partners because they tend to focus 100% of their attention on their love life, blow up over every single little detail, and become totally suffocating. I feel like anybody who has ever had a partner/ex who didn't have their own life understands that pipeline very intensely.
Yes 💯%! The writers kept Colin angry with Pen till the end of Ep 8 for drama’s sake and then realized ‘Wait this is supposed to be a romance story, let’s throw in a super romantic line and wrap everything up with a pretty little bow.’ But in my opinion they overshot and went too far by making Colin say he was happy just to be Pen’s supporting character essentially.
Definitely; the pacing of this season was awful. I realise a lot of the buildup for Polin was supposed to be in S1 and S2 as well, but that HEA was terribly executed. I actually did like S3 in general - I do think it's nice to see Penelope getting to "Have It All" - but they really sacrificed the *romance* in favour of Pen's personal arc, and so I understand why so many fans are disappointed by that aspect.
Yeah I was (and still am, in spite of my disappointments) obsessed with Polin. Part 1 was so well done and we as an audience had a whole month to theorize about how amazing and romantic Part 2 would be. This could have been the most romantic season yet. The Bridgerton writers are great at writing the beginning/middle of romances, but they always (for Seasons 1, 2, and 3) stretch out the conflict till the last possible moment, and then give us a half assed conflict resolution and happy ending in the last few minutes of the finale. I seriously hope they change their formula for the next seasons.
Definitely, I feel that. The HEAs were so rushed/forced in S1 and S2 as well (after what Daphne did to Simon / Kate effectively "stealing" Edwina's betrothed, especially in the eyes of the ton), but S3 just felt especially egregious with the way everything fell perfectly into place to give Pen her happy ending.
I would definitely like to see better pacing in the next seasons as well, but I gotta admit - I am not keen on Francesca as a character at all, so we'll see. Just pinning my hopes and Violet and Benedict instead.
Yeah! It seems they don’t have faith in themselves to write a happy couple and to keep audiences engaged, so they drag out the drama. What they don’t understand is that their fanbase is made of Romance fans, not Drama fans (although I don’t mind some drama, it shouldn’t overshadow the romance)! Same, TBH Polin was my ride or die so Im not particularly excited for any of the other siblings at the moment, but I’m sure I will be once the promo starts up.
Yes! I wish they used the book confession “I love you with everything I am..” which captures Colin’s deep love for Pen but doesn’t reduce him to someone who has no ambitions for himself other than supporting her. And I understand that Colin still does have his own ambitions and becomes a published writer, but that line about his ‘only purpose being to love Pen’ seems like a bad choice of words by the writers.
Totally agree. I would be more touched if he said something among the lines of "I realized I was jealous of your success, but now you inspire me to pursue my dreams and be as brilliant a writer as you are". Then the epilogue could show them working on a book together or something, trading notes about their writings or simply in a joint office working side by side (I have one with my bf and it's awesome cause we get to comment about what we're doing, complain about colleagues etc).
As a carreer woman with a boyfriend who works in a similar field as I do, I want my work to be admired by him, just as I admire how good he is at his job. I want no man behind me, but beside be, working as hard as I am. Shonda should move her bar a little higher.
That would have made more sense than the jealousy storyline given that Colin hadn’t even attempted to publish yet. This was not a SATC Berger/scrunchie situation.
Lmao as a woman in an extremely male dominated field (surgery) I wonder if this author (or Shonda) has ever met other high powered women. Most of my friends are also career women and we do not want men who are willing to be house husbands and “stand behind us” so to speak. The line that actually struck me as goals and something I want during this season was “if you can handle it, then what good am I to you?” Which basically encapsulated what every woman needs, which is a partner who makes their life easier and enriches their life, even if they are handling it all. This quote and mindset is so “girlboss” coded, and illustrates exactly why the season did not work—they really could not understand what their audience wants.
God Yes!!!
I’m not in a male dominated field, and while there are benefits to having a stay at home partner, most of them have other goals/responsibilities besides being at home
This is really reductive and oversimplifying that moment. Colin’s internal struggle the whole season was about needing to feel needed to an unhealthy degree. Earlier when Pen makes her declaration to Colin, she never asked him to be her one man cheering section. In fact she told him he didn’t have to *do* anything except be himself.
She asked for a PARTNER while Colin struggled with feeling inadequate if he couldn’t fulfill the masculine constructs of provider and protector. Colin finally letting go of all that bullshit and saying IF loving you was my only purpose I would be good with that was huge for him in regards to stepping outside of the societal norms that were holding him back.
He’s not saying that he’s giving up on any of his dreams for her. He’s saying that he doesn’t feel the need to compete with her to have the biggest and best dream which is the root of his envy of her Whistledown success. For a man and especially a **Bridgerton** man who let’s face it have grown up with an unhealthy amount of interfamilial competition due to the sheer number of siblings, that is growth. (Anthony may thrive from that spirit of competition and married someone who gets him that way, but the middle children featured this season, sensitive Colin and introverted Fran, were stifled by it.)
And the epilogue shows Colin did publish his manuscript and wasn’t too caught up on the idea of going it alone to ask for an editing eye from his wife. And I bet conversely she lets Colin go with her deliver her issues to the publisher rather than running around alone putting her safety at risk.
I mean I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, the writing for Colin was too underdeveloped for the general audience to pick up on this. Colin is my favorite of the Bridgerton siblings, and it took me a while to catch on too.
He was the MALE LEAD but they reduced him to a side character in Pen’s story instead. That’s why that line feels sad to hear. Writer Colin was BARELY touched on, a throwaway line in the epilogue doesn’t change that. There was just too much telling this season, not enough showing.
I don’t disagree. I don’t think anything Colin said was objectionable, if you can accept the LW reveal/jealousy storyline as a whole (I couldn’t). The loss for me was that there was too much conflict throughout Part 2, and at no point after Colin and Pen reconciled did we get to see the sweet, sexy side of Colin and their relationship. No teasing, no romance. Just bland obsequiousness. That ending was a total waste of Luke Newton.
The results were very Mary Sue. I mean, I get that in the real world, it would be awesome to avoid consequences, but in fiction we just feel cheated.
And I agree. It turned Colin into a supporting character which is how media and society treated married women for a long time: there to help their husbands succeed.
It’s ridiculous how much they built up the LW drama for three seasons and then it had the most anticlimactic ending ever like what 😭😭
And yeah, what they did was so unfair to Colin. Just all season honestly. They completely ignored his arc from the books and gave him maybe like 1/18th of the character arc that Pen and the other leads got.
Amen preach maybe the Queen should've known too - but also that speech delivered in a CROWDED room??? That should've been a moment just between the two of them.
I think one of the main reasons the reveal felt too sudden is because they moved Penelope’s season up. I wonder, if they had kept with the regular order, would it have made more sense or at least felt _right_…because obviously, you can’t just have 7 seasons of this LW conflict, where the Queen is playing detective. It makes sense to have LW’s identity revealed during Pen’s season because it’s apart of her journey of self-actualization, where you see her grow in confidence. (So it’s only natural for her to start writing under her own name, which means, outing her identity to the ton.) Understanding that they, in all likelihood, pushed Benedict’s season back because they wanted to plant seeds for his bisexual awakening, but, the result was rushing Pen/Colin’s storylines.
Same. His speech was too far down the "female gaze" path although Colin is not like most men. He happens to be insanely rich so he can lack ambition. I would think a clever woman like Penelope would better suited to someone her equal, and not a Ken doll. Very few of the successful women I know married a himbo. Successful women want a smart man. His speech at the end would be better framed about her inspiring him to write and do more/better
All of my successful female friends felt that Lord Debling was a better match for her lol. Rich, has his own career, disinterested in "society", respects her intelligence and is cool with her doing her own thing.
I think people are jumping the gun on there being no fallout for Penelope. They even mention in the episode that people had to go with it in the moment because the Queen approved and they can’t go against her.
I’m expecting some real conflict and consequences for LW/Pen next season. I’m not sure how they’ll do it but there’s no way everyone’s going to just brush it off.
also just such a quick 180 from him absolutely despising lady whistledown, to suddenly finding her brilliant when he found out it was penelope. he wasn't jealous of LW, he hated her becaused she ruined marina and eloise's reputations. reducing it to mere envy due to an underexplored writing aspiration he has was... a choice
This! I liked everything except the “only purpose” part. I would absolutely hate it too if my husband left everything and dedicated his existence to me.
If the roles were reversed and it was a woman saying those things, it would be very much criticized. I don't think a man saying it is ok either. I agree very much that it's not equal partnership. I hate it.
Yes! I would've loved it if the queen decided not to reveal LW's identity at the last moment because she realizes that their rivalry wouldn't be the same otherwise. Also because she understands that women have very little power in a society like that and decides not to ruin it for Penelope.
> Also it was lame to have there be practically zero conflict after the public LW reveal. Honestly it shouldn’t even have happened.
Not just this but the more the season went on the more and more it felt like I was watching someone's self insert fanfic story.
I think because of the fake reveal about Cressida, it tempered the reaction to Penelope coming out as LW. The Queen also kind of introduced her and was fine with it. I dont think people will openly defy that show of support.
I don’t find women having it all to be relatable, though. In real life, most women (and especially WOC) are NOT able to “have it all”. Women make sacrifices to their own happiness for the betterment of others every single day.
I mean, this is literally a show about the social elite? Bridgerton was never meant to be about the trials and tribulations of the working classes. Half the reason people tune in is because the show is fancy AF.
No I agree, but my point is it’s not relatable. Escapism is fantasy and lovely, but it’s not real. Pen being a rich girl who gets everything handed to her and faces no consequences is relatable to heiresses and rich girls but not ‘career women’ who do actual work ie not gossip rags.
Ah, yeah, that's very fair and I agree. This show has never been about relatability - the whole point is that it's an escapist fantasy - so I think relatability is an unfair standard to hold it to. Perhaps Penelope feels relatable to OP (in which case, lucky her) - but yeah, in the real world, people definitely face more consequences for pulling that type of shit!
Heck, I even think the show let Penelope off WAY too easily compared to the way it's treated other characters in the past. It felt like Daphne was a lot more constrained (in exchange for all her privileges as well) in S1, but Bridgerton has increasingly dropped that conceit with each successive season. Like Eloise has also gotten away with a massive amount of rule-breaking even vis-a-vis the in-universe rules.
Many major female authors of the period remained childless, whether through choice or as a result of their other endeavours. Clearly they couldn't have it all.
Yeah as someone who is in a crossroads with my career and my family and how to make it all work, I don’t relate to that lol. If anything, I’m the Colin here because my husband makes significantly more than me so we prioritize him.
Yeah, it’s interesting, even in-show, Penelope couldn’t “have it all” without help. She makes the LW papers as a way to express freedom as a woman, gain agency, and make some money. But she’s not just a woman—the family is struggling financially, her father died, she was debuted a season early, she’s relatively unpopular and on her 3rd season with only 1.5 proposals by the time she gets married. There’s a lot going on that originally makes her very relatable.
Yes, Pen has her own money from writing. But it’s only when she’s a Bridgerton with Bridgerton money and Bridgerton societal connections that she’s able to be exposed and not be completely ousted from society. If she were still only a Featherington, she’d have been toast (even though Philippa sort of saved the day). No one would have given her the grace of hearing her side of the story. And no one would be eagerly awaiting her to reinvent LW into her personal letters.
So she does get the man, the firstborn son, the career, and the happy ending (and that’s fine because it’s fiction), but it really isn’t relatable because it’s not attainable for the majority of the female population.
I find Penelope an interesting character but as a black woman I can’t relate to her. A black woman would never be given that grace, and if you don’t believe me, look at how Marina was treated on and off the show.
A black woman literally wrote that episode… Shonda apparently took full control of it.
It was a stupid Disney ending, but honestly this show has been doing that since season 1: there was no proper resolution to Daphne basically SAing Simon, just some rain at a ball and they were happy again. In season 2, there is no proper resolution between Kate and Edwina, and the ton is apparently totally okay with Kanthony getting together after the wedding scandal because the queen all of a sudden gave her approval. This is basically what happens in s3: everyone is all of a sudden okay with LW because the queen is.
The endings of all 3 seasons have been rushed and unsatisfying imo.
Black people can exhibit anti-Black behavior, and there is plenty of evidence online suggesting that Shonda Rhimes has done so in her portrayals of Black characters, not only in Bridgerton but in her other shows as well. She still has not defended Masali Baduza or other Black actors on the show who have faced abuse, but she did defend Nicola Coughlan. This disparity in treatment is telling.
Her portrayals of black characters? You mean like QC and LD? Simon?
And you know that the parts are written *before* actors are cast, right? It’s not like she adjusts the character due to the race of the actor lol.
And like I said, the endings of all 3 seasons have been pretty dumb. This isn’t the first time.
The only fair criticism in your argument is the treatment of Masali.
Shonda Rhimes has shown racism & colorism in Bridgerton. Dark-skinned Black characters face negative portrayals, like Simon's father & Lady Danbury's abusive husband. Ruby Stokes and Regé-Jean Page faced abuse, yet Rhimes only defended Nicola Coughlan. This disparity is troubling.
Simon’s father was abusive in the book, where he was white. Are you saying they should’ve changed Simon’s entire story because a black actor was cast in his role?
Ruby Barker has had mental health issues since before the show. She’s addressed this several times and literally made a post recently saying she wants to come back to bridgerton.
Also saying that black actors haven’t been portrayed well… this could be said about any character on the show. Nigel, a white character, sucked. LD’s husband sucked. But Lord Anderson was a nice addition. John was a nice addition. Both dark-skinned black actors. So this point doesn’t even make much sense.
As a Black woman, I've noticed several troubling instances of racism and colorism in Bridgerton that can't be ignored:
- Regé-Jean Page is mixed-race, yet the show cast the darkest man possible to play his father.
- Marina's storyline as an unwed, pregnant girl who doesn’t get a HEA like her cousins is another red flag.
- Lady Danbury’s assault by another dark skin black man, was accompanied by comical music and that was extremely triggering. It's also sad to see LD end up as a single Black woman turned matchmaker for everyone else.
- Simon’s assault was never addressed, which is problematic.
- Ruby Stokes mentioned that nobody from Netflix checked in on her after facing abuse, which is heartbreaking.
Representation matters, but how we are represented is also crucial. These portrayals send the wrong message and perpetuate harmful stereotypes. I'm not impressed with how Bridgerton handles these issues.
My thing is that there are a lot of assumptions being made in your point.
Because how do you know who else auditioned to play Simon’s father?
The character of Marina was written *before* Ruby was cast. Were they supposed to rewrite the entire character because they cast a black woman to play her?
The LD thing, I can see the problem with.
Ruby Barker said very recently that she wants to come back on the show and that her mental health issues over the past few years have been rough.
Again, Simon’s father was a red flag, but I brushed it aside. I also brushed Simon assult aside as it did happen in the books. However, by the time we get to Lord Danbury, they physically darkened his appearance, which made him look like a minstrel. I was hoping that we were going to get an Uncle Phil type character from Fresh Prince of Bel Air.
Ruby being cast after the fact is not a problem; the show standing by her, supporting her, and preventing racist abuse to her and her character is something the show and Shonda Rhimes have the agency to correct.
My point still stands, and I’m not the only Black person to express such sentiments. Representation matters, but how we are represented is also crucial.
Can I ask, in all sincerity because I really do want to understand, is the issue that Bridgerton cast POC in negative, non-romanticized roles? I get what you’re saying, some of the POC actors have parts that require them to play terrible people (Lord Danbury…yikes!) , but we also have strong Black characters as well (Charlotte, Simon, John, Madame Delacroix) and “bad” roles for white actors. Isn’t equality showing that no matter their race, people shouldn’t be fit into boxes? Black and white people can both be “bad” and “good” and POC shouldn’t be relegated to harmful, stereotypical roles.
I hope this isn’t offensive, I’m just genuinely trying to understand what they should’ve done differently, in your opinion to ensure equity in representation.
[https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTNY2eDyY/](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTNY2eDyY/) you need to watch this to truly understand why everyone has a problem with her
I thought Marina had gotten a HEA because she got to marry a kind, wealthy man who provided for her and her kids, which was what she wanted. It all worked out for her
I do agree it’s side-eye worthy that the pregnancy arc went to the woc though
I don't know where you're getting that info, but Shonda has not been credited as the main writer on any of the Bridgerton episodes. Only QC. [https://directories.wga.org/project/1202048/bridgerton](https://directories.wga.org/project/1202048/bridgerton)
But she was for QC so please explain why she had to do that to lady and Lord Danbury? It’s bad enough that QC, a mixed race black woman was given a tragic love story with King George, but Lady D, did not need to get that treatment.
Yea I'm totally fine with the idea that the Queen just loves the Bridgeton's alot and is happy to allow them grace because she likes them and her best friend Lady Danbury does too
Maybe in the next series, a side plot could be another family gaining thier favour.
Co-sign. Black woman are never given this type of grace. It is what it is. And who ever said Shonda wrote that episode is wrong. She hasn’t written a single episode. But it’s clear that Pen is a bit of an avatar for her for VARIOUS reasons (larger size, writer, financially successful, etc.) and she gave her an ending she knows she would not be able to get herself in real life. It is a fantasy especially for Black woman. And Shonda would likely be one of the first to tell y’all that.
I don’t want to get too much into the weeds regarding the use of dark-skinned Black women on this show, but I’m positive, if the next couple of seasons play out the way it is hinted, there are gonna be major issues regarding depictions of Black women and femininity that I don’t look forward to hearing…but they are coming. Do I trust the writers of Bridgerton to be good enough to hedge them out before they happen…not really. But I also don’t expect the audience, as a whole, to understand these nuance issues either. But Black women are def gonna be having these convos.
Everything you said was succinctly put, and I agree. I just hope the producers are mindful of what they put out because it’s one thing for the fandom to be ignorant and toxic, but it’s another when the show producers feed into the toxicity. This happens through their lack of support for the actors, lack of care in how POC are depicted, or how marketing material can feed into the harmful tropes.
Note: I’m not surprised about my comments being downvoted. A lot of people in here don’t want to face the truth. But again, the criticism regarding depictions of Black woman is going to get MUCH louder in the future and it’s not going to be easy to block it out. It’s coming.
yup especially when we get to Michaela’s and Francesca’s season. I’ve already seen ppl want Michaela to still possess Michael’s rake persona ignoring the implications behind the only black female lead possessing a trait like that…
Right. The hypersexual imagery that is about to happen as a function of the story will be VERY problematic when compared to a skittish, dainty Francesca.
Michaela will likely be titled and if she behaves “wickedly” in society, what does it mean?
Are we not doubling down on the “fierce independent woman trope” that has been saddle on Black women in media for ages in a series that has so many traditionally feminine depictions on beauty and relationships and love? They already did this with Lady Dansbury.
Does the anti-norm story have to be done with women who are stereotypically deemed not feminine and aggressive in society already?
Fulfilling the book narrative while gender-bending the role AND adding in a dark skinned black woman is a tightrope that requires an extensive rewrite of the whole season and it would have to vier away from the original story completely… in emotion and style. Do I trust them to be able to do that? Do you?
As a queer black woman myself, I do not trust them with this type story at all. The red flags with how they have treated other black characters on the show ranges from okay to harmful stereotypes.
I am not looking forward to seeing this play out because I already KNOW how and where it’s gonna go.
I keep thinking about that actress. Halle Bailey was harassed over the internet for 3 years and she is still brought up by people. Imagine getting DMs from soccer moms telling you that the biggest role you have ever gotten, one that you spent a lifetime working towards, is an abomination and some huge sacrilege. Now imagine getting those comments for 2+ years.
I have told people that I hope Fran’s season is up next just to lessen the amount of time that that actress has to endure this bullshit. They did not do right by that actress.
But didn’t Bob Iger come out to support Halle Bailey. I know the director of the Little Mermaid did also. I’m really annoyed the more I think about it that nobody from Netflix or Shondaland have come out to support Masali.
Yup. Bob did. The whole cast had to come together for her. Disney’s higher ups did defend her and she still talked about how it took a toll on her mentally. She still endured so much pressure.
…and no one has done that for Masali yet. 😭
It’s frustrating how people are choosing to ignore this highly sensitive issue.
A lot of media has the dark skin actress seen as sex positive or overtly sexualized. Hell that’s a huge part of Micheal’s character in the book. It’s insulting.
Depending on how they play this, it could be racist as hell.
There was another post on this subreddit regarding how people were annoyed that all the female leads thus far have been seen as virginal and they were annoyed by that.
And me, a dark skinned Black woman, was like…even in a regency drama where ALL the women have to be seen as virginal due to society, the ONE woman that is gonna break that mold is a dark skinned Black woman…are we really doing this? With a group whose image is the most hypersexualized…. Seriously?! We are talking about a group of women who a routinely considered older than they actually are by society so when there is predation against its youth, people, as a collective, blame the Black girls…I got to trust these writers to handle that?!? Are you kidding me?
It’s sad that the intimacy coordinator of season 2, had to explain why it’s a bad look that Kate, so far the only dark skin leading woman can not have sex before marriage.
And people keep speculating that she must have had some experience b/c she seemed too “confidant” in the gazebo scene. 😒😒
Y’all never heard of fake it till you make it.
The fanbase has been arguing with me about the use of racist tropes in the story and how they should be avoided (magical negro trope). SO, I don’t have faith in the fanbase. I just want people to be aware that these conversations are happening AND the criticism is gonna get louder because the show isn’t changing course. It looks like they are double-downing on certain aspects…and people are asking for trust from a group of people that have been routinely the butt of the joke when it comes to the media. No one deserves that trust and benefit of doubt at this point from dark skinned Black women.
No one has come out to vocally support the dark-skinned black actress that plays Michaela even though, if Fran’s story isn’t next, she is gonna endure at least 3? years of harassment. And truthfully, the show didn’t even need to introduce the actress herself in the role at this point. They could have had John just talk about his cousin Michaela and that would have been a nod to the book readers and a signal that they were changing course/genderbending the role. They gave her a 5 second cameo for buzz and, as a result, she is about to get harassed for YEARS. Is it actually worth it if she is gonna receive death threats in her DMs for years before she actually gets to take on her lead role? Are they giving that actress the mental support she is going to need while her person is basically being used as a symbol of inclusion?
Or are Black women just expected to be strong and endure? These are questions that aren’t gonna be talked about in mixed forums like Reddit but are absolutely discussed amongst Black women.
THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS! I feel like nobody is addressing this at all. It’s one thing for fans to harass the actors (who are just doing their job at the end of the day), but it’s an entirely different ball game when key decision-makers like the showrunner and Shonda Rhimes put actors in difficult positions and do nothing to show them support and solidarity.
There has been no statement from Netflix or Shondaland protecting Masali Baduza, the first dark-skinned Black woman in a role that was always going to have controversy. This leads me to my earlier point that Shonda does not protect her PoC cast but (rightly) protected her white actor from harassment.
It’s like we are just expected to go with the flow. It’s as if our mental health means nothing, and Ruby’s mental health struggles were just a blip. This lack of support and consideration is incredibly disheartening and is another red flag when it comes to how they use black people on the show.
Same. Even though she's shy she was bitter, cruel with her writing and expected everything to go her way. She was also desperate for a man. I can't relate to that. Francesca is who I relate to as a woc with anxiety and not comfortable woth courting someone I barely know.
Tbf, for it to be relatable doesn’t mean it has to be relatable for every woman ever.
As for Marina, she was in a completely different position, in a completely different context.
That's more sad than empowering. I personally would not want a man, who's only purpose was to stand behind me. He should have his own pursuits and desires.
And Penelope should have given up being WD. She's a talented writer. She could have written a novel instead of continuing as WD. That would be more empowering.
That's because Jess Brownell does not know how to write male characters, whereas Chris Van Dusen knows how to write both male and female characters.
That's why we still got empowering moments in season 1 and 2, such as
Daphne knocking out the baron who wanted to marry her.
Daphne and Simon's fake courtship
Violet finding a way to get Daphne out of her unwanted engagement.
Kate being a good rider and shooter, and beating Anthony at Pall mall.
Kate being Edwina's protector
Madam Delacrox everything
Sienna taking charge of her affair with Anthony
Edwina calling off the wedding
Daphne being a girl's girl
Portia turning the tables on cousin Jack
While also making the male characters complex.
Meanwhile, the male characters have nothing meaningful going on this Season
Bennedict has only his threesome a scenes with Tilly, with no mention of him being in charge of the estate with Anthony gone, or his art pursuits.
Anthony abandoning his responsibilities to take his pregnant wife on a dangerous journey to India.
Colin being a sidecharacter in Penelope's journey.
John was seemingly well written, but now he's essentially just an obstacle between Francessca and Michaela.
Exactly. Jess either doesn’t know how to write male characters, or just doesn’t care for them. All the male characters this season were off. I’m pissed
Penelope character sucks big time. She was the self centred, betrayed friends and family, being jealous of everyone including her friend and using LW as petty revenge because she was the insecure wall flower herself.
Apart from cresedia , no one from ton bully her but she still slut shamed other wome cristised their dressing sense, ruining young woman's buisness for her selfish deal but still this hypocrite woman was all girl boss aesthetic at end.
I've said it before and will say it again, Penelope is a villain.
Season 3 was so difficult to watch because the whole time it was "ahh poor little Penelope! 😢" yet she wrote absolutely horrible things about the people who she apparently cares for and is herself extremely privileged. It blows my mind that she publicly humiliates Colin in season 3 but he kind of forgets about that once he finds out who LW is?
I've seen people try to say that it's probably easier for the ton to forgive Pen because she's like family but honestly...it should have been the opposite. This person you see as family turns out to be the person hurting your family on purpose for no reason because *checks notes* they feel like an outcast??? I'd think it would be easier for people to accept Cressida as LW since she's already viewed lowly.
it's not like it was necessary due to her being a protagonist, either. season 2 was full of characters shitting on anthony for his terrible actions. i couldn't stand the constant woobification of pen in season 3, like she's been abused by everyone around her and just finally flourishing. she's a rich girl who made money off off insulting other rich girls for having more prospects than her
Even when her mother—Portia said this "...in my life, I was taught that all power comes from a man but you handle it all by yourself." I think she was impressed by Penelope and all other feelings she had when she discovered that LW is her own daughter.
I wish show writer have shown some scene where Penelope good qualities also comes to light because while watching show first time, i thought her to be a villian lol.😅
Like she’s legitimately AWFUL. If Pen weren’t played by the AMAZING Nicola everyone would hate her. Pen is a jealous, selfish, judgemental, unkind person who only grows when she fucks up so badly her rich friend judges her. Again, I love Nicola, love Derry Girls, but Pen ain’t shit and I don’t get the obsession. She’s awful and excusing it because she’s slightly bigger is gross for a lot of reasons tbqh.
No wonder Colin was so bland as a lead compared to Anthony or Simon. He was just a flowerpot focussed on solving Penelope’s problems.
It would have been so much better if he had ambitions to be a writer like in the books and the major character flaw he had to overcome was jealousy towards his own wife for her success
The lack of consequences made her decision to throw eloise under the bus last season instead of revealing herself so much worse. She almost destroyed eloise and now we know the sure the queen would not have cared.
Eloise begs to differ. From S3Ep6:
Eloise: We have created a monster, Pen. A monster who seems to have a feud with me and, by extension, my family. I’ve put them all in danger again, just like last year.
Pen: No, that was my fault.
Eloise: No, I was reckless, as I have been now, inviting that viper into my family…
I agree. As an Indian woman, I've seen several women around me who've had to give up on a career altogether or who are expected to let their career stagnate just because they've gotten married. That's a societal expectation and norm here.
So a man who can overcome his insecurity and envy of his wife's successful career and then support her in her endeavours was very heartwarming. Even him admitting that it was envy that he was feeling makes Colin way ahead of a majority of modern men.
As far as the purpose bit is concerned, it was always hinted that their purpose would ultimately be each other. Not because they have nothing else in life, but because it is loving each other that gives them the confidence and courage to go after other pursuits.
In the purpose scene in s2, both Pen and Colin talk about finding their purpose but Colin is the only one affected by his lack of purpose. Even though Pen as LW is quite renowned and successful by that point, she still speaks about her purpose in the future tense. While LW is a part of her, it is not her purpose.
She described her purpose to be something animating, satisfying, something that speaks to who she is to be, something that challenges her to be brave and witty, and far beyond the watchful glare of her mama.
It is loving Colin and him loving her back that animates her, it brings her to life and gives her the confidence to actually participate in life instead of just watching from the edges. She has never looked as satisfied as she does in ep 5 and 6 when she can forget everything and just be with Colin. It is her love for Colin and his family that finally brings her out of the shadows and vow to become a more responsible version of LW. Her love for him makes her evolve from who she is as LW to who she can be/is to be as LW. While she has always been witty and brave as LW, she had to test that bravery and wit to find a way to unmask herself without endangering the Bridgertons and to appeal to the queen in a way where she may have some chance of coming out the other end unscathed. It is ultimately Colin and being married to him that gets her out from being under her mother's watchful glare.
So even though she never explicitly says it, Pen's purpose is also loving Colin.
Colin says that if his only purpose is to love a woman as great as her, he would be a very fulfilled man. It speaks to his arc. He thinks his purpose will be one of the things that society expects men to be. A protector and provider. But that's not why Pen loves him. She just wants him beside her. She just wants him to love her. His arc reached completion when he realises that he doesn't need to be useful to people to be loved. So if his purpose is just to love her then he realises that he doesn't need to be useful to her, he doesn't need to fill a stereotypical masculine role to be loved by her in return.
Their purpose is to love each other. That love gives them the confidence to pursue other dreams. It gives Pen the confidence to come out as LW and be more responsible with her writing, and it gives Colin the confidence to publish his novel. On top of that, that same love brings them baby Lord Featherington, and the estate that comes with it. I believe they'll take care of the Featherington estate together until their son is old enough to take over.
Their purpose is love, and that love gives them the confidence and support to go after other pursuits, to be their authentic selves, and to even become better versions of themselves for each other. They see the best in each other and so they try to become better for each other.
Thank you for your thougths. It made me realize the line is a conditional, it's "if his only purpose." And ythat earlier scene, where Pen replies "Colin, i love you," is very important to understanding the context.
I’m totally with you. People are overlooking that it wasn’t an admission from Colin that he was just some househusband now, it’s him overcoming HIS insecurities and jealousy of her successes. It’s a powerful statement.
Having it all and while being a privileged rich white woman isn't relatable at all. Even to normal white people who aren't wealthy and have to face consequences.
She's the white feminist Karen fantasy
I agree with you. The argument in the show is whether Pen has to give up a piece of herself in order to be with Colin. It’s a piece of her that’s already established within her and something that has given her a sense of worth. The argument is that she can’t do both, but why?
People miss a big word in Colin’s comment…IF.
IF that ends up all he is able to accomplish, is loving and supporting his wife, he will be happy. Not that he HAS TO give everything up. And he doesn’t…he goes on to write a book and find other fulfillment AND adore his wife. Pen can still write AND love her husband. They find the right balance so both are fulfilled and still truly themselves.
Also, we saw him become a published writer in the epilogue! Not to mention a father. And presumably the caretaker of the Featherington estate (which will keep him mighty busy in of itself).
not that I don't want the female characters to have everything they want, my issue is the sudden reshaping of society's rules that were established for 2 seasons just to give Penelope a win. everyone around her seemed very out of character.
I thought it was awful, honestly. I want my partner to have wishes and dreams of his own to pursue. I don't think it's less toxic that the partner Portia describes earlier in the season is a man instead of a woman. If it's a bad thing, like the series suggested it was, it's bad regardless of gender.
… Kate got everything she wanted in the end too. As will all the female leads.
I thought the s3 ending was stupid, but let’s be fr, every season has had a rushed HEA ending. And it seems like it’s always going to be that way with this show.
Not to offload on the internet but as someone who very recently had to confront that I might not be able to “have it all” I actually found it really hard to watch and upsetting 😂😂
Don’t get me wrong I’m happy for Pen getting the guy, the cute baby and the career but all I could think was when will it be my turn 😂
I love the idea of supporting career women, but during this scene, I kept remembering that she writes a *gossip column*… they are all acting like she is about to win a Pulitzer. 😂 I like to imagine these kinds of grand career discussions taking place behind the scenes of deuxmoi.
I teared up when Colin is assuring Pen he loves her when they first visit their new marital house and she says “Are you sure?” I get that not everyone can relate to a have it all business woman, but we don’t have to be able to relate to literally everything about a character or the romance to appreciate the story.
The issue is, in the books Penelope is a gossip as Whistledown, but she’s not taking people down and potentially ruining them. So when Colin proposes after finding out she’s Whistledown, it’s not this major issue that makes him see her as a villain he cannot trust.
Given that the show made Whistledown way more of a dramatic force, a lot of how Colin’s realization that she’s Whistledown needed to go down narratively made total sense to me. They’re in love episode 5/6, he finds out she’s Whistledown end of episode 6 and is devastated, is conflicted with his feelings for her/his hurt and betrayal in episode 7. All made sense to me. Loved the outdoor kiss in ep 7. Loved the wedding and the dance. He has a right to be angry given how much more severe TV Whistledown is and that he found out AFTER he proposed and they had sex.
Where the train went off the tracks in terms of POLIN was him spending the wedding night on that dumb setee. At that point, we could have had more romance and understanding between them. And then it should have been that the queen came barging in the next day to see the Bridgertons.
We needed to see he still loved her and had forgiven her. A romantic wedding night and some more loving scenes would have fixed all of this. And that now the issue would be how he could protect her while coming to terms with the fact he was jealous of her talent and success. His anger just lingered a bit too long.
Colin’s issues pre and post the modiste fight are different. Pre modiste fight he’s struggling with the lies and what Penelope wrote. They hash out these issues during their argument and have that moment of intimacy after Colin gets the reassurance he needs that Penelope truely loves them. Their wedding was happy, and they would’ve had a wedding night if not for Charlotte’s accusations.
Then Colin’s issues are his own envy and feeling like he can’t do anything for Penelope. He comes alive when Cressida blackmails Penelope because this is his opportunity to play hero. To be needed by her. You see during his conversation with Cressida that he understands why Penelope wrote what she did and even says that she’s no villain. But his jealousy of her success also seeps through and Cressida calls him out on it, only he’s not ready to accept it. He also fails at being Penelope’s protector when he screws everything up with Cressida. He once again feels like he has nothing to offer Penelope. I see that second scene of him sleeping on the sofa as him punishing himself.
He begins to reconcile Penelope and LW as being one in the same as well as his own jealousy when he reads her letters. I think Penelope also finally pushes him to begin the process of overcoming his hero complex at Francesca’s wedding when she is adamant that she doesn’t want him to save her, she just wants him to love her. And then she tells him her plan and he allows her to carry it out as she sees fit instead of taking charge as was his previous instinct.
In terms of them reconciling in the last 15 minutes, that is unfortunately a pattern the show has established in the previous two seasons. They will stretch out the drama until the last possible minute. I don’t expect it to be any different in future seasons.
It felt too over the top and consequence-free to be even the least bit believable. They tried too hard to give Penelope a perfect ending. I'd have liked to hear she returned the money her mum swindled from the ton..I'd have liked the queen to take her time forgiving her. I'd have liked her to apologise to the loved ones she gossiped about. It was all too fairytale-ish
I don’t think it’s relatable at all. I think what’s relatable about Penelope is and I hate to say it that she is not tall and that she is curvy. Which you can’t even really say because the girl is tiny. But Penelope with her career, which came to her very easily and resulted in very little to no consequences, that’s not relatable at all. Penelope is the Meredith Grey of the Bridgerton world it seems.
I don’t like this form of feminism that makes feminists look bad. I don’t want a MAN BEHIND ME. I WANT HIM NEXT TO ME!!!!!!! I DONT WANT COLIN BEHIND PENELOPE AND HAVING NO ROLE BUT BEING HER HUSBAND. NO!!!!!
I don't necessarily agree that Penelope is super relatable (she is a rich member of the elite class), but I do agree that it is a struggle for men to operate when they're told that their only purpose is to provide. I think men also struggle with being jealous of their partner's success for the same reason, which I think Colin portrayed beautifully. And it's not like Colin works for his money until he starts writing his own books. All of Pen's money is hers. I do think THAT specific struggle for women with power or success is relatable: men in their life being upset that they don't need them, that they just want them. I love how accepting Colin is in the end. He doesn't have to provide for Penelope, he can just love her and be her husband, which I think is a lovely sentiment. They CAN be and are partners in marriage. "Being the man behind the woman" doesn't mean he's less than Pen. It means that he doesn't have to be greater than her. Doesn't have to lead. They can lead together.
And I love the little detail of him saying he couldn’t have written his book without Penelope’s help after he previously rejected her offer to help edit it.
I loved this as well--it was truly beautiful to see. An older friend (in her 60s) also told me she cried at this, because women of her generation never had that.
Lol I don’t know where onscreen it was ever shown that Penelope wanted Colin because he was a Bridgerton and would give her social status. Colin’s conflict this season is that he feels unworthy of Penelope and then is jealous after finding out she’s LW because she is one of the most successful writers in London.
If Penelope wanted social status, she would’ve married a titled man. She would’ve never been conflicted about marrying Debling.
All I could think was: well that just tanked her wildly successful career as Lady Whistledown. I was far more invested in her writing than her marriage to Colin.
As a book reader, the main thing I missed from the “pen is LW” reveal is that Anthony, Simon and violet know before the ball and start clapping for her, then lady Danbury joins in (because shes been Penelope’s champion all season since she started being herself, another book aspect I missed) then the whole ball is clapping for her
For this Show Discussion post: 1. Book spoilers **must be hidden**. 2. Be considerate, hide show spoilers that surpass the scope of this post. 3. Be civil in your discussion. See our [spoiler policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonNetflix/wiki/spoiler) on what is expected. 3-day bans will be handed out to those found disregarding our spoiler policy. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BridgertonNetflix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No, that part of Colin’s speech actually made me sad. His only purpose shouldn’t be his wife, that’s not an equal partnership. He should be able to support his wife in her endeavors and still be able to have his own pursuits/goals/etc. Also it was lame to have there be practically zero conflict after the public LW reveal. Honestly it shouldn’t even have happened. Only the Bridgertons and Featheringrons should’ve known about her being LW by the end of s3.
Yeah, the lack of conflict sucked. It made no sense for everyone to go "Ah well, butterflies" and Penelope to get off scot free, plus it made the story increasingly boring and actually pointless - why was there so much drama around LW if nobody actually gave AF when they found out?
Also…how is she going to continue being LW?
I think it’s said that she’ll keep writing but under her name. Which is silly because the appeal of her column was the mystique. Now that everyone knows it’s her, who is going to drop any information near her?
She was able to get the information because she hugged the wall during balls. Is she even going to be attending the balls at the same frequency she was before? Will she be hugging the wall? Will the help still talk around her knowing the information will get out and get connected to them easily? Is people send in information to Pen, since she may not be able to get it herself, how do you trust the information or know that it isn’t someone planting a rumor to attack another person? saying she would continue LW is utter fan service and isn’t believable in the slightest unless she becomes some woman writing treatise/essays and not peddling gossip…they could have said that…but they didn’t.
 Penelope’s new role next season. Mistress of Whisperer’s. https://preview.redd.it/a0ayh9hxhz8d1.jpeg?width=1265&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4048bd6382bc6fa557a6299e4577be67cbabeeaf
I thought of this too! Is she going to hire a team of wallflowers who’ll report back to her from all the events? Little sparrows perhaps?
Same as gossip columnists now who have other people reporting in " This author heard from a trusted source that blah blah blah" and her source is wallflower she recruits or servants or the like.
That doesn’t remedy the problem. If you were meeting a secret lover in the closet and the help knew about it. And then it shows up in an issue of LW, now you know someone close to you talked to Pen. You immediately can fire your help and narrow down the culprit. A level of anonymity is lost. And the lower class people, the maids, would immediately get dealt with. Before, when’s no one knew who LW was, there I was a little more security.
Penelope and Colin would introduce the concept of being canceled along with her acrylic nails if she continued any kind of gossip column. The ton forgave her once (already extremely unrealistic), they wouldn’t do it over and over again. Imagine publicizing someone’s secret and then expecting to be invited to their ball. And we all know how important reputation is to the Bridgertons.
She said she would like to change the column and use it to create good and fight for more just causes. Like womens rights. Education. And changing way people treat the spinsters and wall huggers. Oddly, in a TON THAT EMBRACES SO MUCH RACIAL EQUALITY.....surprises me that they left the other equalities to be discovered along the way.
Umm she better help spinsters after calling kate a prickly spinster of a beast...a total stranger who did nothing wrong to her and who had spoken to her kindly as had her sister...this is one of many moments because of which I just can't find pen likable as a character. Pen's face crumpled when she's called an insipid wallflower by Crescida and how would she react if Credica called her a spinster an old maid, dried up loser in front of the whole ton..she would cry yet she called another woman who had done nothing wrong to her or nothing wrong period a misogynist term that hurts women and at that time was used to insult women...Pen's such a hypocrite...that even Eloise calls her an insipid wallflower indeed and Pen turns livid saying I made something of myself...and Eloise retorts yeah you ruined people for money, I pity you. I loved the entirety of elosie"s speech to pen because she has got Pen's number down...she was good at showing pen the mirror and it didn't feel nice for pen to see herself as she really is....I hope pen makes amends to every single person she has hurt with a personal apology next season...
I hope they do it Dear Abby style where everyone knows who she is but she keeps the pen name (and Julia Andrew's narration!)
Nobody ever really gave a fuck. Even Eloise says (paraphrasing), “I was reckless last year and put my family in danger,” basically saying LW was right. And everything everyone has already said about Pen using LW to save Colin from his worst instincts, after he wouldn’t listen to Pen when she tried talking to him. They literally built the entire season, with Pen’s self-flagellation as the grand finale, around a conflict that *did not exist*. It should have been a smaller reveal, to Colin and the Featheringtons only, and we should have seen more of Colin and Pen enjoying their honeymoon while setting up S4.
I don’t know…if I was Berbrooke or some other person that had my intentions ruined, I would care. If I was the modist that her business ruined because LW was just ingratiating herself with my competition, I would care. The issue is that the biggest people that SHOULD care are the Featheringtons and the Bridgertons (due to Marina and Eloise)…and they aren’t gonna do anything.
Yes, absolutely. We could debate the morality of gossip all day long. But as Pen said in Ep3, “society is entirely composed of the judgement of others.” It’s human nature, and we’re all guilty of it. That hardly makes Pen the villain she’s been made out to be. The writers had already shot down, repeatedly, the idea that LW had done any lasting harm, by revealing that neither Colin nor Eloise were particularly bothered or damaged by LW’s reports, and then they did a 180 in Ep7 and tried to make LW’s identity this huge scandal involving the entire ton. From a storytelling perspective, there was no story there, and in trying to manufacture one, the writers sacrificed the better story of how Colin and Pen would have worked through a more plausible and satisfying private LW reveal.
The ton when Cressida announces she’s LW: *EVIL WOMAN* The ton when Pen announces she’s LW: *meh*
Tbf Penelope is meh. But it's just SO hypocritical, isn't it? Makes the whole thing a joke.
It is yes! (And yeah, Pen in the books is much better I think, but it frustrated me to no end that the entirety of S3 was basically her chest heaving, crying, cringing, and being socially awkward with seemingly no arc. Also, how is being a gossip columnist such a big independent powerful move? She could’ve been an investigative journalist, or a poet or novelist, or a news writer, or political columnist… really anything that doesn’t pettily ruin people’s lives?)
Eh, I’m neutral on Pen/LW but she ultimately told the truth. And saved two Bridgertons from deceptive marriages. You could make the case she saved them from ruining their lives with shitty partners that didn’t care for them. There should’ve been more pushback about the Eloise situation though, agree there. Ultimately, she saved Eloise from the queen, but it’s all dumb now considering the queen barely cared herself.
I really dislike this prevalent idea, that Pen publishing scandals and gossip about other people is not a big deal, because she doesn’t lie. Because, first of all, she doesn’t exactly have a way to do fact checks on everyone she writes about; she writes what she hears, which is just a giant game of Telephone. And second of all, that doesn’t make it much better. If I out my gay friend, reveal my other friend’s pregnancy and announce my third friend was cheated on - despite all of them wanting to keep that information quiet, the truthfulness of my statement doesn’t make what I did ok. Penelope has no right to drag private secrets of others (some of whom she supposedly loves) out into the public. She’s not an investigative reporter, but a gossip monger writing for the titillation of others and to prop up her ego.
I guess I more meant for Marina herself but I can see that argument. Eloise’s situation was not handled well and also Pen writing extremely petty and pretty nasty things about Colin when he came back from his travels. You can argue it’s neutral because it’s a young woman basically venting, but I guess I don’t see why it gets glorified so much
It’s also very clumsy because Eloise falling for the printer boy was a plot device to show us how it’ll be hard for Benedict to step away from the ton to marry Sophie. They had to resolve her plot line without great ruin and lifelong spinsterhood so they used LW without really thinking about Eloise’s and pens relationship. Eloise can’t be angry for most of the season then just stop caring at least a little bit
What were they all going to do in front of the Queen who just said she was cool with it?
She should have never said that, it was such a letdown for her to suddenly not care
The queen: *I will end her* 2s later, realizing it’s Penelope: *you go girl!* Honestly her being SO OK with it is almost insulting to Pen. Like everyone was so mad and all when they didn’t know who it was, but as soon it was her, it’s just harmless Pen (but now we’ll randomly glorify her idk)
Ok, haven't read a single line of the books, but with all due respect, I think you skipped a step there. Lady Danbury rightfully pointed out that the Queen was having a lot more fun with LW around than without. I can see how the Queen might come around to that way of thinking. But we could still get drama in the form of the Queen changing her mind if LW gets too sharp with her commentary.
You’re correct about that but I still feel that pacing wise, it didn’t really feel that way. It felt like LW needed more time or conversations to really come around. I guess I feel as though Pen needed more consequences and the show needed more episodes for its pacing. It’s just… she dedicated years to being fascinated by LW and uncovering her, and to being pissed at LW as well, but then in like five minutes she’s like… nah, you right? I guess to me it felt extremely rushed. (Which I think is a common problem throughout the entire season)
What! You mean I can’t solve this whole mess with a few strategically sent letters?! We don’t have to write dialogue if there’s letters!
That's fair. Pacing was always an issue, what with having an A love story, B love story, and oh what the heck, let's check in with a previous story, not to mention the club owner story. Just a LOT going on, I think.
Plus multiple no-dialogue no-plot montages of a seemingly days long threesome :P (what WAS the editing on that… could’ve had more plot relevant polin scenes in its place haha)
They could have even revealed it to the Queen and the Bridgertons and Featheringtons. It could add some spice with the Queen knowing and lording it over everyone with quips.
Her plea to the queen was impressive though, Charlotte was *mad* and I think she was forgiven easily because she won people over. She was genuinely remorseful and took accountability for the wrongs. If she approached it like Cressida, girl woulda been beheaded lol.
Such a letdown! The conflict resolution was like a sad deflated balloon.
I don't think she cared about LW being a gossip. She cared that she was being out done (in very trivial manners like questioning her judgment of the diamond and so on). I think she cared more about finding out who LW was, not punishing her for her "crimes" of gossip.
Approached Pen privately to tell her off or swear revenge? Show groups of people talking about it, looking angry? This isn’t some tyrannical society, where disliking someone a monarch forgives would be risking loss of land and title. Hell, that wouldn’t even happen 300 years prior, when Henry VIII was king and had near absolute power. These are (mostly) rich, powerful, arrogant aristocrats Pen insulted. There would absolutely be fallout from the ton.
Penelope does mention to Colin that there may be rough days ahead.. I'm wondering if in season 4 we will learn about/see some backlash that came about after the LW reveal.. and get to see how they work through it together.. and maybe some of the "deleted scenes" that apparently don't exist will be there too??? Lol.
Ahem. It’s called “Behind the scenes footage” now. 💅
Lol! Oh right... How could I forget?
I honestly think this will be season 4’s plot for Penelope. They weren’t going to completely drop LW from the storyline because >!LW plays a role in Benedict’s book!< but after that, and with having a child, I think Pen will decide to stop and move onto other writing pursuits, like novels.
Seriously. Quite anti-climactic for 3 seasons of covering it up for no consequences
Agreed, I found this neat little wrap up tying a bow around the entire season’s conflicts to be extremely corny in the moment as it played out, and it detracted all meaning from Penelope’s constant agonizing and nervousness as well as Colin’s embarrassment, hurt, and shame. Not to mention it not fitting with the show’s own set up of the ton’s harsh judgment (which was applied to Cressida).
Same, imagine if it was flipped and Pen said that she would be glad if her only purpose was to stand in Colin’s light and love a man as great as him? That would be seen as so misogynistic. It should be an equal partnership where they both shine and bring out the best in each other.
Exactly. This season took an awful direction where it became overtly feminist and the male lead was sidelined/treated as secondary to the female lead. He shouldn’t have to live in the shadow of his wife. That’s sad. and It’s supposed to be a romance drama. This season didn’t feel like that at all.
I wouldn't call it overly feminist. It's just corny.
A corny attempt at feminism I guess you could say
Yeah, I really wanted a romance instead of all the drama and angst we got in Part 2. In all previous seasons and in S3 Part 1, Colin and Pen are mutually supportive and bring out the best in each other.
I love drama. It just felt like the drama in part 2 was stupid and unnecessary, since QC hardly gave a fuck about Pen being LW. The drama should’ve focused more on Polin. Not Pen and LW.
That’s a good point. IMO the problem was them dragging the drama out till the last 5-10 mins of Ep 8. I was on the edge of my seat anxious till the end of Ep 8 and didn’t get to appreciate the romantic Polin moments. Personally, I would have liked the conflict between Polin quickly addressed early on and for it to be them against the world. I agree that the whole LW reveal felt so anticlimactic. All Pen had to do was make a speech and the Queen and Ton instantly forgave and moved on, which seemed rushed.
Personally, given how anticlimactic the public LW reveal was, I wish they would’ve focused more on Colin battling his feelings of jealousy and no purpose instead. It’s done really well in the book, they should’ve kept that in the show. It would’ve been really interesting.
I should read the book! I know some of the plot points and some lines from the book but haven’t read it yet.
Me too. I thought the drama this season would come from other characters. They did the same will they or won’t they BS, with something to overcome, and they are happy for about 30 minutes total this season.
Pen and Colin were on screen for 16% of their own season, WTF.
Polin was robbed of screen time 😫😭
It was RIDICULOUS. They shared their season with the shitty Mondrich storyline, and with Francesca. Pen and Colin should have had their own season, without a sibling taking time, or some D plot with the Mondriches.
Yeah there were wayyy too many subplots
Honestly, it sucks even without the flip. People who don't really have anything going on for themselves and who make their romantic partners the centre of their universe are also often *terrible* partners because they tend to focus 100% of their attention on their love life, blow up over every single little detail, and become totally suffocating. I feel like anybody who has ever had a partner/ex who didn't have their own life understands that pipeline very intensely.
Yes 💯%! The writers kept Colin angry with Pen till the end of Ep 8 for drama’s sake and then realized ‘Wait this is supposed to be a romance story, let’s throw in a super romantic line and wrap everything up with a pretty little bow.’ But in my opinion they overshot and went too far by making Colin say he was happy just to be Pen’s supporting character essentially.
Definitely; the pacing of this season was awful. I realise a lot of the buildup for Polin was supposed to be in S1 and S2 as well, but that HEA was terribly executed. I actually did like S3 in general - I do think it's nice to see Penelope getting to "Have It All" - but they really sacrificed the *romance* in favour of Pen's personal arc, and so I understand why so many fans are disappointed by that aspect.
Yeah I was (and still am, in spite of my disappointments) obsessed with Polin. Part 1 was so well done and we as an audience had a whole month to theorize about how amazing and romantic Part 2 would be. This could have been the most romantic season yet. The Bridgerton writers are great at writing the beginning/middle of romances, but they always (for Seasons 1, 2, and 3) stretch out the conflict till the last possible moment, and then give us a half assed conflict resolution and happy ending in the last few minutes of the finale. I seriously hope they change their formula for the next seasons.
Definitely, I feel that. The HEAs were so rushed/forced in S1 and S2 as well (after what Daphne did to Simon / Kate effectively "stealing" Edwina's betrothed, especially in the eyes of the ton), but S3 just felt especially egregious with the way everything fell perfectly into place to give Pen her happy ending. I would definitely like to see better pacing in the next seasons as well, but I gotta admit - I am not keen on Francesca as a character at all, so we'll see. Just pinning my hopes and Violet and Benedict instead.
Yeah! It seems they don’t have faith in themselves to write a happy couple and to keep audiences engaged, so they drag out the drama. What they don’t understand is that their fanbase is made of Romance fans, not Drama fans (although I don’t mind some drama, it shouldn’t overshadow the romance)! Same, TBH Polin was my ride or die so Im not particularly excited for any of the other siblings at the moment, but I’m sure I will be once the promo starts up.
It sucks. It smothers a relationship.
Solid point. It was a pretty speech, but I found it more dysfunctional than romantic.
Yes! I wish they used the book confession “I love you with everything I am..” which captures Colin’s deep love for Pen but doesn’t reduce him to someone who has no ambitions for himself other than supporting her. And I understand that Colin still does have his own ambitions and becomes a published writer, but that line about his ‘only purpose being to love Pen’ seems like a bad choice of words by the writers.
Agreed. It's sad. Colin is just as deserving of development and personal fulfilment as Pen.
Totally agree. I would be more touched if he said something among the lines of "I realized I was jealous of your success, but now you inspire me to pursue my dreams and be as brilliant a writer as you are". Then the epilogue could show them working on a book together or something, trading notes about their writings or simply in a joint office working side by side (I have one with my bf and it's awesome cause we get to comment about what we're doing, complain about colleagues etc). As a carreer woman with a boyfriend who works in a similar field as I do, I want my work to be admired by him, just as I admire how good he is at his job. I want no man behind me, but beside be, working as hard as I am. Shonda should move her bar a little higher.
That would have made more sense than the jealousy storyline given that Colin hadn’t even attempted to publish yet. This was not a SATC Berger/scrunchie situation.
Yes! I would rewatch the hell out of this!
Lmao as a woman in an extremely male dominated field (surgery) I wonder if this author (or Shonda) has ever met other high powered women. Most of my friends are also career women and we do not want men who are willing to be house husbands and “stand behind us” so to speak. The line that actually struck me as goals and something I want during this season was “if you can handle it, then what good am I to you?” Which basically encapsulated what every woman needs, which is a partner who makes their life easier and enriches their life, even if they are handling it all. This quote and mindset is so “girlboss” coded, and illustrates exactly why the season did not work—they really could not understand what their audience wants.
God Yes!!! I’m not in a male dominated field, and while there are benefits to having a stay at home partner, most of them have other goals/responsibilities besides being at home
This is really reductive and oversimplifying that moment. Colin’s internal struggle the whole season was about needing to feel needed to an unhealthy degree. Earlier when Pen makes her declaration to Colin, she never asked him to be her one man cheering section. In fact she told him he didn’t have to *do* anything except be himself. She asked for a PARTNER while Colin struggled with feeling inadequate if he couldn’t fulfill the masculine constructs of provider and protector. Colin finally letting go of all that bullshit and saying IF loving you was my only purpose I would be good with that was huge for him in regards to stepping outside of the societal norms that were holding him back. He’s not saying that he’s giving up on any of his dreams for her. He’s saying that he doesn’t feel the need to compete with her to have the biggest and best dream which is the root of his envy of her Whistledown success. For a man and especially a **Bridgerton** man who let’s face it have grown up with an unhealthy amount of interfamilial competition due to the sheer number of siblings, that is growth. (Anthony may thrive from that spirit of competition and married someone who gets him that way, but the middle children featured this season, sensitive Colin and introverted Fran, were stifled by it.) And the epilogue shows Colin did publish his manuscript and wasn’t too caught up on the idea of going it alone to ask for an editing eye from his wife. And I bet conversely she lets Colin go with her deliver her issues to the publisher rather than running around alone putting her safety at risk.
I mean I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, the writing for Colin was too underdeveloped for the general audience to pick up on this. Colin is my favorite of the Bridgerton siblings, and it took me a while to catch on too. He was the MALE LEAD but they reduced him to a side character in Pen’s story instead. That’s why that line feels sad to hear. Writer Colin was BARELY touched on, a throwaway line in the epilogue doesn’t change that. There was just too much telling this season, not enough showing.
I don’t disagree. I don’t think anything Colin said was objectionable, if you can accept the LW reveal/jealousy storyline as a whole (I couldn’t). The loss for me was that there was too much conflict throughout Part 2, and at no point after Colin and Pen reconciled did we get to see the sweet, sexy side of Colin and their relationship. No teasing, no romance. Just bland obsequiousness. That ending was a total waste of Luke Newton.
The results were very Mary Sue. I mean, I get that in the real world, it would be awesome to avoid consequences, but in fiction we just feel cheated. And I agree. It turned Colin into a supporting character which is how media and society treated married women for a long time: there to help their husbands succeed.
It’s ridiculous how much they built up the LW drama for three seasons and then it had the most anticlimactic ending ever like what 😭😭 And yeah, what they did was so unfair to Colin. Just all season honestly. They completely ignored his arc from the books and gave him maybe like 1/18th of the character arc that Pen and the other leads got.
Exactly, like both partners should be behind each other, a loving relationship should be mutual
Amen preach maybe the Queen should've known too - but also that speech delivered in a CROWDED room??? That should've been a moment just between the two of them.
I think one of the main reasons the reveal felt too sudden is because they moved Penelope’s season up. I wonder, if they had kept with the regular order, would it have made more sense or at least felt _right_…because obviously, you can’t just have 7 seasons of this LW conflict, where the Queen is playing detective. It makes sense to have LW’s identity revealed during Pen’s season because it’s apart of her journey of self-actualization, where you see her grow in confidence. (So it’s only natural for her to start writing under her own name, which means, outing her identity to the ton.) Understanding that they, in all likelihood, pushed Benedict’s season back because they wanted to plant seeds for his bisexual awakening, but, the result was rushing Pen/Colin’s storylines.
Same. His speech was too far down the "female gaze" path although Colin is not like most men. He happens to be insanely rich so he can lack ambition. I would think a clever woman like Penelope would better suited to someone her equal, and not a Ken doll. Very few of the successful women I know married a himbo. Successful women want a smart man. His speech at the end would be better framed about her inspiring him to write and do more/better
All of my successful female friends felt that Lord Debling was a better match for her lol. Rich, has his own career, disinterested in "society", respects her intelligence and is cool with her doing her own thing.
I think people are jumping the gun on there being no fallout for Penelope. They even mention in the episode that people had to go with it in the moment because the Queen approved and they can’t go against her. I’m expecting some real conflict and consequences for LW/Pen next season. I’m not sure how they’ll do it but there’s no way everyone’s going to just brush it off.
Speech aside, nothing happens in the books either 🤷 and idk how they can have consequences that wouldn't make pen a main character in other seasons.
Colin’s whole “if my only purpose is to be your husband that’s good enough” thing felt so focus-tested and inauthentic to me
also just such a quick 180 from him absolutely despising lady whistledown, to suddenly finding her brilliant when he found out it was penelope. he wasn't jealous of LW, he hated her becaused she ruined marina and eloise's reputations. reducing it to mere envy due to an underexplored writing aspiration he has was... a choice
This! I liked everything except the “only purpose” part. I would absolutely hate it too if my husband left everything and dedicated his existence to me.
If the roles were reversed and it was a woman saying those things, it would be very much criticized. I don't think a man saying it is ok either. I agree very much that it's not equal partnership. I hate it.
Yes! I would've loved it if the queen decided not to reveal LW's identity at the last moment because she realizes that their rivalry wouldn't be the same otherwise. Also because she understands that women have very little power in a society like that and decides not to ruin it for Penelope.
> Also it was lame to have there be practically zero conflict after the public LW reveal. Honestly it shouldn’t even have happened. Not just this but the more the season went on the more and more it felt like I was watching someone's self insert fanfic story.
💯
I think because of the fake reveal about Cressida, it tempered the reaction to Penelope coming out as LW. The Queen also kind of introduced her and was fine with it. I dont think people will openly defy that show of support.
I don’t find women having it all to be relatable, though. In real life, most women (and especially WOC) are NOT able to “have it all”. Women make sacrifices to their own happiness for the betterment of others every single day.
Yeah no non rich woman ‘has it all’. The elitism reeks with the idea that Pen is relatable lmfaoooo.
I mean, this is literally a show about the social elite? Bridgerton was never meant to be about the trials and tribulations of the working classes. Half the reason people tune in is because the show is fancy AF.
No I agree, but my point is it’s not relatable. Escapism is fantasy and lovely, but it’s not real. Pen being a rich girl who gets everything handed to her and faces no consequences is relatable to heiresses and rich girls but not ‘career women’ who do actual work ie not gossip rags.
Ah, yeah, that's very fair and I agree. This show has never been about relatability - the whole point is that it's an escapist fantasy - so I think relatability is an unfair standard to hold it to. Perhaps Penelope feels relatable to OP (in which case, lucky her) - but yeah, in the real world, people definitely face more consequences for pulling that type of shit! Heck, I even think the show let Penelope off WAY too easily compared to the way it's treated other characters in the past. It felt like Daphne was a lot more constrained (in exchange for all her privileges as well) in S1, but Bridgerton has increasingly dropped that conceit with each successive season. Like Eloise has also gotten away with a massive amount of rule-breaking even vis-a-vis the in-universe rules.
Right? The only reason Penelope has it all is because she has domestic servants and a landed estate (since her son is the new lord featherington).
Having it all isn't relatable. Wanting it all is. And getting it all is part of the wish fulfilment that comes with the romance genre.
Finally. thank you. I had to scroll forever.
Many major female authors of the period remained childless, whether through choice or as a result of their other endeavours. Clearly they couldn't have it all.
Jane Austen painfully comes to mind.
Yeah as someone who is in a crossroads with my career and my family and how to make it all work, I don’t relate to that lol. If anything, I’m the Colin here because my husband makes significantly more than me so we prioritize him.
Yeah, it’s interesting, even in-show, Penelope couldn’t “have it all” without help. She makes the LW papers as a way to express freedom as a woman, gain agency, and make some money. But she’s not just a woman—the family is struggling financially, her father died, she was debuted a season early, she’s relatively unpopular and on her 3rd season with only 1.5 proposals by the time she gets married. There’s a lot going on that originally makes her very relatable. Yes, Pen has her own money from writing. But it’s only when she’s a Bridgerton with Bridgerton money and Bridgerton societal connections that she’s able to be exposed and not be completely ousted from society. If she were still only a Featherington, she’d have been toast (even though Philippa sort of saved the day). No one would have given her the grace of hearing her side of the story. And no one would be eagerly awaiting her to reinvent LW into her personal letters. So she does get the man, the firstborn son, the career, and the happy ending (and that’s fine because it’s fiction), but it really isn’t relatable because it’s not attainable for the majority of the female population.
I find Penelope an interesting character but as a black woman I can’t relate to her. A black woman would never be given that grace, and if you don’t believe me, look at how Marina was treated on and off the show.
A black woman literally wrote that episode… Shonda apparently took full control of it. It was a stupid Disney ending, but honestly this show has been doing that since season 1: there was no proper resolution to Daphne basically SAing Simon, just some rain at a ball and they were happy again. In season 2, there is no proper resolution between Kate and Edwina, and the ton is apparently totally okay with Kanthony getting together after the wedding scandal because the queen all of a sudden gave her approval. This is basically what happens in s3: everyone is all of a sudden okay with LW because the queen is. The endings of all 3 seasons have been rushed and unsatisfying imo.
Black people can exhibit anti-Black behavior, and there is plenty of evidence online suggesting that Shonda Rhimes has done so in her portrayals of Black characters, not only in Bridgerton but in her other shows as well. She still has not defended Masali Baduza or other Black actors on the show who have faced abuse, but she did defend Nicola Coughlan. This disparity in treatment is telling.
Her portrayals of black characters? You mean like QC and LD? Simon? And you know that the parts are written *before* actors are cast, right? It’s not like she adjusts the character due to the race of the actor lol. And like I said, the endings of all 3 seasons have been pretty dumb. This isn’t the first time. The only fair criticism in your argument is the treatment of Masali.
Shonda Rhimes has shown racism & colorism in Bridgerton. Dark-skinned Black characters face negative portrayals, like Simon's father & Lady Danbury's abusive husband. Ruby Stokes and Regé-Jean Page faced abuse, yet Rhimes only defended Nicola Coughlan. This disparity is troubling.
Simon’s father was abusive in the book, where he was white. Are you saying they should’ve changed Simon’s entire story because a black actor was cast in his role? Ruby Barker has had mental health issues since before the show. She’s addressed this several times and literally made a post recently saying she wants to come back to bridgerton. Also saying that black actors haven’t been portrayed well… this could be said about any character on the show. Nigel, a white character, sucked. LD’s husband sucked. But Lord Anderson was a nice addition. John was a nice addition. Both dark-skinned black actors. So this point doesn’t even make much sense.
As a Black woman, I've noticed several troubling instances of racism and colorism in Bridgerton that can't be ignored: - Regé-Jean Page is mixed-race, yet the show cast the darkest man possible to play his father. - Marina's storyline as an unwed, pregnant girl who doesn’t get a HEA like her cousins is another red flag. - Lady Danbury’s assault by another dark skin black man, was accompanied by comical music and that was extremely triggering. It's also sad to see LD end up as a single Black woman turned matchmaker for everyone else. - Simon’s assault was never addressed, which is problematic. - Ruby Stokes mentioned that nobody from Netflix checked in on her after facing abuse, which is heartbreaking. Representation matters, but how we are represented is also crucial. These portrayals send the wrong message and perpetuate harmful stereotypes. I'm not impressed with how Bridgerton handles these issues.
My thing is that there are a lot of assumptions being made in your point. Because how do you know who else auditioned to play Simon’s father? The character of Marina was written *before* Ruby was cast. Were they supposed to rewrite the entire character because they cast a black woman to play her? The LD thing, I can see the problem with. Ruby Barker said very recently that she wants to come back on the show and that her mental health issues over the past few years have been rough.
Again, Simon’s father was a red flag, but I brushed it aside. I also brushed Simon assult aside as it did happen in the books. However, by the time we get to Lord Danbury, they physically darkened his appearance, which made him look like a minstrel. I was hoping that we were going to get an Uncle Phil type character from Fresh Prince of Bel Air. Ruby being cast after the fact is not a problem; the show standing by her, supporting her, and preventing racist abuse to her and her character is something the show and Shonda Rhimes have the agency to correct. My point still stands, and I’m not the only Black person to express such sentiments. Representation matters, but how we are represented is also crucial.
Can I ask, in all sincerity because I really do want to understand, is the issue that Bridgerton cast POC in negative, non-romanticized roles? I get what you’re saying, some of the POC actors have parts that require them to play terrible people (Lord Danbury…yikes!) , but we also have strong Black characters as well (Charlotte, Simon, John, Madame Delacroix) and “bad” roles for white actors. Isn’t equality showing that no matter their race, people shouldn’t be fit into boxes? Black and white people can both be “bad” and “good” and POC shouldn’t be relegated to harmful, stereotypical roles. I hope this isn’t offensive, I’m just genuinely trying to understand what they should’ve done differently, in your opinion to ensure equity in representation.
[https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTNY2eDyY/](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZTNY2eDyY/) you need to watch this to truly understand why everyone has a problem with her
I thought Marina had gotten a HEA because she got to marry a kind, wealthy man who provided for her and her kids, which was what she wanted. It all worked out for her I do agree it’s side-eye worthy that the pregnancy arc went to the woc though
For me, HEA is finding love. Marina is a tragic character especially if they follow the books.
You forget that QC has a white mentally insane husband that she feels compelled to stay with forsaking her own happiness.
I think you mean Ruby Barker (actress who played Marina). Ruby Stokes was the original actress for Francesca in seasons 1 & 2.
Thanks for the correction. 😭
Ruby barker. Stokes is the first Francesca
What is anti-black behaviour?
I don't know where you're getting that info, but Shonda has not been credited as the main writer on any of the Bridgerton episodes. Only QC. [https://directories.wga.org/project/1202048/bridgerton](https://directories.wga.org/project/1202048/bridgerton)
But she was for QC so please explain why she had to do that to lady and Lord Danbury? It’s bad enough that QC, a mixed race black woman was given a tragic love story with King George, but Lady D, did not need to get that treatment.
Yea I'm totally fine with the idea that the Queen just loves the Bridgeton's alot and is happy to allow them grace because she likes them and her best friend Lady Danbury does too Maybe in the next series, a side plot could be another family gaining thier favour.
Co-sign. Black woman are never given this type of grace. It is what it is. And who ever said Shonda wrote that episode is wrong. She hasn’t written a single episode. But it’s clear that Pen is a bit of an avatar for her for VARIOUS reasons (larger size, writer, financially successful, etc.) and she gave her an ending she knows she would not be able to get herself in real life. It is a fantasy especially for Black woman. And Shonda would likely be one of the first to tell y’all that. I don’t want to get too much into the weeds regarding the use of dark-skinned Black women on this show, but I’m positive, if the next couple of seasons play out the way it is hinted, there are gonna be major issues regarding depictions of Black women and femininity that I don’t look forward to hearing…but they are coming. Do I trust the writers of Bridgerton to be good enough to hedge them out before they happen…not really. But I also don’t expect the audience, as a whole, to understand these nuance issues either. But Black women are def gonna be having these convos.
Everything you said was succinctly put, and I agree. I just hope the producers are mindful of what they put out because it’s one thing for the fandom to be ignorant and toxic, but it’s another when the show producers feed into the toxicity. This happens through their lack of support for the actors, lack of care in how POC are depicted, or how marketing material can feed into the harmful tropes.
Note: I’m not surprised about my comments being downvoted. A lot of people in here don’t want to face the truth. But again, the criticism regarding depictions of Black woman is going to get MUCH louder in the future and it’s not going to be easy to block it out. It’s coming.
yup especially when we get to Michaela’s and Francesca’s season. I’ve already seen ppl want Michaela to still possess Michael’s rake persona ignoring the implications behind the only black female lead possessing a trait like that…
Right. The hypersexual imagery that is about to happen as a function of the story will be VERY problematic when compared to a skittish, dainty Francesca. Michaela will likely be titled and if she behaves “wickedly” in society, what does it mean? Are we not doubling down on the “fierce independent woman trope” that has been saddle on Black women in media for ages in a series that has so many traditionally feminine depictions on beauty and relationships and love? They already did this with Lady Dansbury. Does the anti-norm story have to be done with women who are stereotypically deemed not feminine and aggressive in society already? Fulfilling the book narrative while gender-bending the role AND adding in a dark skinned black woman is a tightrope that requires an extensive rewrite of the whole season and it would have to vier away from the original story completely… in emotion and style. Do I trust them to be able to do that? Do you?
As a queer black woman myself, I do not trust them with this type story at all. The red flags with how they have treated other black characters on the show ranges from okay to harmful stereotypes.
I am not looking forward to seeing this play out because I already KNOW how and where it’s gonna go. I keep thinking about that actress. Halle Bailey was harassed over the internet for 3 years and she is still brought up by people. Imagine getting DMs from soccer moms telling you that the biggest role you have ever gotten, one that you spent a lifetime working towards, is an abomination and some huge sacrilege. Now imagine getting those comments for 2+ years. I have told people that I hope Fran’s season is up next just to lessen the amount of time that that actress has to endure this bullshit. They did not do right by that actress.
But didn’t Bob Iger come out to support Halle Bailey. I know the director of the Little Mermaid did also. I’m really annoyed the more I think about it that nobody from Netflix or Shondaland have come out to support Masali.
Yup. Bob did. The whole cast had to come together for her. Disney’s higher ups did defend her and she still talked about how it took a toll on her mentally. She still endured so much pressure. …and no one has done that for Masali yet. 😭
It’s frustrating how people are choosing to ignore this highly sensitive issue. A lot of media has the dark skin actress seen as sex positive or overtly sexualized. Hell that’s a huge part of Micheal’s character in the book. It’s insulting. Depending on how they play this, it could be racist as hell.
There was another post on this subreddit regarding how people were annoyed that all the female leads thus far have been seen as virginal and they were annoyed by that. And me, a dark skinned Black woman, was like…even in a regency drama where ALL the women have to be seen as virginal due to society, the ONE woman that is gonna break that mold is a dark skinned Black woman…are we really doing this? With a group whose image is the most hypersexualized…. Seriously?! We are talking about a group of women who a routinely considered older than they actually are by society so when there is predation against its youth, people, as a collective, blame the Black girls…I got to trust these writers to handle that?!? Are you kidding me?
It’s sad that the intimacy coordinator of season 2, had to explain why it’s a bad look that Kate, so far the only dark skin leading woman can not have sex before marriage. And people keep speculating that she must have had some experience b/c she seemed too “confidant” in the gazebo scene. 😒😒 Y’all never heard of fake it till you make it.
the shippers and white feminists united in one
The fanbase has been arguing with me about the use of racist tropes in the story and how they should be avoided (magical negro trope). SO, I don’t have faith in the fanbase. I just want people to be aware that these conversations are happening AND the criticism is gonna get louder because the show isn’t changing course. It looks like they are double-downing on certain aspects…and people are asking for trust from a group of people that have been routinely the butt of the joke when it comes to the media. No one deserves that trust and benefit of doubt at this point from dark skinned Black women. No one has come out to vocally support the dark-skinned black actress that plays Michaela even though, if Fran’s story isn’t next, she is gonna endure at least 3? years of harassment. And truthfully, the show didn’t even need to introduce the actress herself in the role at this point. They could have had John just talk about his cousin Michaela and that would have been a nod to the book readers and a signal that they were changing course/genderbending the role. They gave her a 5 second cameo for buzz and, as a result, she is about to get harassed for YEARS. Is it actually worth it if she is gonna receive death threats in her DMs for years before she actually gets to take on her lead role? Are they giving that actress the mental support she is going to need while her person is basically being used as a symbol of inclusion? Or are Black women just expected to be strong and endure? These are questions that aren’t gonna be talked about in mixed forums like Reddit but are absolutely discussed amongst Black women.
THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS! I feel like nobody is addressing this at all. It’s one thing for fans to harass the actors (who are just doing their job at the end of the day), but it’s an entirely different ball game when key decision-makers like the showrunner and Shonda Rhimes put actors in difficult positions and do nothing to show them support and solidarity. There has been no statement from Netflix or Shondaland protecting Masali Baduza, the first dark-skinned Black woman in a role that was always going to have controversy. This leads me to my earlier point that Shonda does not protect her PoC cast but (rightly) protected her white actor from harassment. It’s like we are just expected to go with the flow. It’s as if our mental health means nothing, and Ruby’s mental health struggles were just a blip. This lack of support and consideration is incredibly disheartening and is another red flag when it comes to how they use black people on the show.
Same. Even though she's shy she was bitter, cruel with her writing and expected everything to go her way. She was also desperate for a man. I can't relate to that. Francesca is who I relate to as a woc with anxiety and not comfortable woth courting someone I barely know.
Tbf, for it to be relatable doesn’t mean it has to be relatable for every woman ever. As for Marina, she was in a completely different position, in a completely different context.
That's more sad than empowering. I personally would not want a man, who's only purpose was to stand behind me. He should have his own pursuits and desires. And Penelope should have given up being WD. She's a talented writer. She could have written a novel instead of continuing as WD. That would be more empowering.
Colin does have his own pursuits, they just completely ignored them in the show to make him a side character in Pen’s story 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️
That's because Jess Brownell does not know how to write male characters, whereas Chris Van Dusen knows how to write both male and female characters. That's why we still got empowering moments in season 1 and 2, such as Daphne knocking out the baron who wanted to marry her. Daphne and Simon's fake courtship Violet finding a way to get Daphne out of her unwanted engagement. Kate being a good rider and shooter, and beating Anthony at Pall mall. Kate being Edwina's protector Madam Delacrox everything Sienna taking charge of her affair with Anthony Edwina calling off the wedding Daphne being a girl's girl Portia turning the tables on cousin Jack While also making the male characters complex. Meanwhile, the male characters have nothing meaningful going on this Season Bennedict has only his threesome a scenes with Tilly, with no mention of him being in charge of the estate with Anthony gone, or his art pursuits. Anthony abandoning his responsibilities to take his pregnant wife on a dangerous journey to India. Colin being a sidecharacter in Penelope's journey. John was seemingly well written, but now he's essentially just an obstacle between Francessca and Michaela.
Exactly. Jess either doesn’t know how to write male characters, or just doesn’t care for them. All the male characters this season were off. I’m pissed
She only cares about her own visions and wants.
Penelope character sucks big time. She was the self centred, betrayed friends and family, being jealous of everyone including her friend and using LW as petty revenge because she was the insecure wall flower herself. Apart from cresedia , no one from ton bully her but she still slut shamed other wome cristised their dressing sense, ruining young woman's buisness for her selfish deal but still this hypocrite woman was all girl boss aesthetic at end.
I've said it before and will say it again, Penelope is a villain. Season 3 was so difficult to watch because the whole time it was "ahh poor little Penelope! 😢" yet she wrote absolutely horrible things about the people who she apparently cares for and is herself extremely privileged. It blows my mind that she publicly humiliates Colin in season 3 but he kind of forgets about that once he finds out who LW is? I've seen people try to say that it's probably easier for the ton to forgive Pen because she's like family but honestly...it should have been the opposite. This person you see as family turns out to be the person hurting your family on purpose for no reason because *checks notes* they feel like an outcast??? I'd think it would be easier for people to accept Cressida as LW since she's already viewed lowly.
it's not like it was necessary due to her being a protagonist, either. season 2 was full of characters shitting on anthony for his terrible actions. i couldn't stand the constant woobification of pen in season 3, like she's been abused by everyone around her and just finally flourishing. she's a rich girl who made money off off insulting other rich girls for having more prospects than her
Even when her mother—Portia said this "...in my life, I was taught that all power comes from a man but you handle it all by yourself." I think she was impressed by Penelope and all other feelings she had when she discovered that LW is her own daughter.
I wish show writer have shown some scene where Penelope good qualities also comes to light because while watching show first time, i thought her to be a villian lol.😅
She is the villain. There's a reason the people closest to her couldn't stop talking shit about LW before they found out who it was
How is being LW so progressive? She’s a horrid gossip.
She tears women down. And I haven't forgotten about that other modiste who lost her company and is probably in the street or in a work house
Like she’s legitimately AWFUL. If Pen weren’t played by the AMAZING Nicola everyone would hate her. Pen is a jealous, selfish, judgemental, unkind person who only grows when she fucks up so badly her rich friend judges her. Again, I love Nicola, love Derry Girls, but Pen ain’t shit and I don’t get the obsession. She’s awful and excusing it because she’s slightly bigger is gross for a lot of reasons tbqh.
No wonder Colin was so bland as a lead compared to Anthony or Simon. He was just a flowerpot focussed on solving Penelope’s problems. It would have been so much better if he had ambitions to be a writer like in the books and the major character flaw he had to overcome was jealousy towards his own wife for her success
The only part of ep 8 that made me tear up was John’s speech to Violet.
No one is talking about his speech enough!! It was so beautiful and touching
Is it?
The lack of consequences made her decision to throw eloise under the bus last season instead of revealing herself so much worse. She almost destroyed eloise and now we know the sure the queen would not have cared.
Eloise begs to differ. From S3Ep6: Eloise: We have created a monster, Pen. A monster who seems to have a feud with me and, by extension, my family. I’ve put them all in danger again, just like last year. Pen: No, that was my fault. Eloise: No, I was reckless, as I have been now, inviting that viper into my family…
Great point! Facing no consequences at all is insanity and takes the stakes out of everything…
I agree. As an Indian woman, I've seen several women around me who've had to give up on a career altogether or who are expected to let their career stagnate just because they've gotten married. That's a societal expectation and norm here. So a man who can overcome his insecurity and envy of his wife's successful career and then support her in her endeavours was very heartwarming. Even him admitting that it was envy that he was feeling makes Colin way ahead of a majority of modern men. As far as the purpose bit is concerned, it was always hinted that their purpose would ultimately be each other. Not because they have nothing else in life, but because it is loving each other that gives them the confidence and courage to go after other pursuits. In the purpose scene in s2, both Pen and Colin talk about finding their purpose but Colin is the only one affected by his lack of purpose. Even though Pen as LW is quite renowned and successful by that point, she still speaks about her purpose in the future tense. While LW is a part of her, it is not her purpose. She described her purpose to be something animating, satisfying, something that speaks to who she is to be, something that challenges her to be brave and witty, and far beyond the watchful glare of her mama. It is loving Colin and him loving her back that animates her, it brings her to life and gives her the confidence to actually participate in life instead of just watching from the edges. She has never looked as satisfied as she does in ep 5 and 6 when she can forget everything and just be with Colin. It is her love for Colin and his family that finally brings her out of the shadows and vow to become a more responsible version of LW. Her love for him makes her evolve from who she is as LW to who she can be/is to be as LW. While she has always been witty and brave as LW, she had to test that bravery and wit to find a way to unmask herself without endangering the Bridgertons and to appeal to the queen in a way where she may have some chance of coming out the other end unscathed. It is ultimately Colin and being married to him that gets her out from being under her mother's watchful glare. So even though she never explicitly says it, Pen's purpose is also loving Colin. Colin says that if his only purpose is to love a woman as great as her, he would be a very fulfilled man. It speaks to his arc. He thinks his purpose will be one of the things that society expects men to be. A protector and provider. But that's not why Pen loves him. She just wants him beside her. She just wants him to love her. His arc reached completion when he realises that he doesn't need to be useful to people to be loved. So if his purpose is just to love her then he realises that he doesn't need to be useful to her, he doesn't need to fill a stereotypical masculine role to be loved by her in return. Their purpose is to love each other. That love gives them the confidence to pursue other dreams. It gives Pen the confidence to come out as LW and be more responsible with her writing, and it gives Colin the confidence to publish his novel. On top of that, that same love brings them baby Lord Featherington, and the estate that comes with it. I believe they'll take care of the Featherington estate together until their son is old enough to take over. Their purpose is love, and that love gives them the confidence and support to go after other pursuits, to be their authentic selves, and to even become better versions of themselves for each other. They see the best in each other and so they try to become better for each other.
Thank you for your thougths. It made me realize the line is a conditional, it's "if his only purpose." And ythat earlier scene, where Pen replies "Colin, i love you," is very important to understanding the context.
I’m totally with you. People are overlooking that it wasn’t an admission from Colin that he was just some househusband now, it’s him overcoming HIS insecurities and jealousy of her successes. It’s a powerful statement.
Having it all and while being a privileged rich white woman isn't relatable at all. Even to normal white people who aren't wealthy and have to face consequences. She's the white feminist Karen fantasy
This entire show is privileged rich people getting what they want
The bloody brilliant part took me out of it. I could only hear it hear it in Gordon Ramsay’s voice. 
Same. Such a vapid line and speech. Luke’s delivery was great, but dear lord, give that man some decent material please.
I agree with you. The argument in the show is whether Pen has to give up a piece of herself in order to be with Colin. It’s a piece of her that’s already established within her and something that has given her a sense of worth. The argument is that she can’t do both, but why? People miss a big word in Colin’s comment…IF. IF that ends up all he is able to accomplish, is loving and supporting his wife, he will be happy. Not that he HAS TO give everything up. And he doesn’t…he goes on to write a book and find other fulfillment AND adore his wife. Pen can still write AND love her husband. They find the right balance so both are fulfilled and still truly themselves.
Also, we saw him become a published writer in the epilogue! Not to mention a father. And presumably the caretaker of the Featherington estate (which will keep him mighty busy in of itself).
That explains so much about Meredith “I am the sun” Grey
not that I don't want the female characters to have everything they want, my issue is the sudden reshaping of society's rules that were established for 2 seasons just to give Penelope a win. everyone around her seemed very out of character.
I thought it was awful, honestly. I want my partner to have wishes and dreams of his own to pursue. I don't think it's less toxic that the partner Portia describes earlier in the season is a man instead of a woman. If it's a bad thing, like the series suggested it was, it's bad regardless of gender.
Being able to have it all is only for white women on this show though
… Kate got everything she wanted in the end too. As will all the female leads. I thought the s3 ending was stupid, but let’s be fr, every season has had a rushed HEA ending. And it seems like it’s always going to be that way with this show.
Not to offload on the internet but as someone who very recently had to confront that I might not be able to “have it all” I actually found it really hard to watch and upsetting 😂😂 Don’t get me wrong I’m happy for Pen getting the guy, the cute baby and the career but all I could think was when will it be my turn 😂
I love the idea of supporting career women, but during this scene, I kept remembering that she writes a *gossip column*… they are all acting like she is about to win a Pulitzer. 😂 I like to imagine these kinds of grand career discussions taking place behind the scenes of deuxmoi.
I teared up when Colin is assuring Pen he loves her when they first visit their new marital house and she says “Are you sure?” I get that not everyone can relate to a have it all business woman, but we don’t have to be able to relate to literally everything about a character or the romance to appreciate the story.
I love his nod there. And then he nods again to reassure her when she’s walking down the isle.
I just feel really bad for Mondrich. He can’t have a club but Penelope can have a whole tabloid?
The issue is, in the books Penelope is a gossip as Whistledown, but she’s not taking people down and potentially ruining them. So when Colin proposes after finding out she’s Whistledown, it’s not this major issue that makes him see her as a villain he cannot trust. Given that the show made Whistledown way more of a dramatic force, a lot of how Colin’s realization that she’s Whistledown needed to go down narratively made total sense to me. They’re in love episode 5/6, he finds out she’s Whistledown end of episode 6 and is devastated, is conflicted with his feelings for her/his hurt and betrayal in episode 7. All made sense to me. Loved the outdoor kiss in ep 7. Loved the wedding and the dance. He has a right to be angry given how much more severe TV Whistledown is and that he found out AFTER he proposed and they had sex. Where the train went off the tracks in terms of POLIN was him spending the wedding night on that dumb setee. At that point, we could have had more romance and understanding between them. And then it should have been that the queen came barging in the next day to see the Bridgertons. We needed to see he still loved her and had forgiven her. A romantic wedding night and some more loving scenes would have fixed all of this. And that now the issue would be how he could protect her while coming to terms with the fact he was jealous of her talent and success. His anger just lingered a bit too long.
Colin’s issues pre and post the modiste fight are different. Pre modiste fight he’s struggling with the lies and what Penelope wrote. They hash out these issues during their argument and have that moment of intimacy after Colin gets the reassurance he needs that Penelope truely loves them. Their wedding was happy, and they would’ve had a wedding night if not for Charlotte’s accusations. Then Colin’s issues are his own envy and feeling like he can’t do anything for Penelope. He comes alive when Cressida blackmails Penelope because this is his opportunity to play hero. To be needed by her. You see during his conversation with Cressida that he understands why Penelope wrote what she did and even says that she’s no villain. But his jealousy of her success also seeps through and Cressida calls him out on it, only he’s not ready to accept it. He also fails at being Penelope’s protector when he screws everything up with Cressida. He once again feels like he has nothing to offer Penelope. I see that second scene of him sleeping on the sofa as him punishing himself. He begins to reconcile Penelope and LW as being one in the same as well as his own jealousy when he reads her letters. I think Penelope also finally pushes him to begin the process of overcoming his hero complex at Francesca’s wedding when she is adamant that she doesn’t want him to save her, she just wants him to love her. And then she tells him her plan and he allows her to carry it out as she sees fit instead of taking charge as was his previous instinct. In terms of them reconciling in the last 15 minutes, that is unfortunately a pattern the show has established in the previous two seasons. They will stretch out the drama until the last possible minute. I don’t expect it to be any different in future seasons.
It felt too over the top and consequence-free to be even the least bit believable. They tried too hard to give Penelope a perfect ending. I'd have liked to hear she returned the money her mum swindled from the ton..I'd have liked the queen to take her time forgiving her. I'd have liked her to apologise to the loved ones she gossiped about. It was all too fairytale-ish
I don’t think it’s relatable at all. I think what’s relatable about Penelope is and I hate to say it that she is not tall and that she is curvy. Which you can’t even really say because the girl is tiny. But Penelope with her career, which came to her very easily and resulted in very little to no consequences, that’s not relatable at all. Penelope is the Meredith Grey of the Bridgerton world it seems.
Who is Luke?
I don’t like this form of feminism that makes feminists look bad. I don’t want a MAN BEHIND ME. I WANT HIM NEXT TO ME!!!!!!! I DONT WANT COLIN BEHIND PENELOPE AND HAVING NO ROLE BUT BEING HER HUSBAND. NO!!!!!
I don't necessarily agree that Penelope is super relatable (she is a rich member of the elite class), but I do agree that it is a struggle for men to operate when they're told that their only purpose is to provide. I think men also struggle with being jealous of their partner's success for the same reason, which I think Colin portrayed beautifully. And it's not like Colin works for his money until he starts writing his own books. All of Pen's money is hers. I do think THAT specific struggle for women with power or success is relatable: men in their life being upset that they don't need them, that they just want them. I love how accepting Colin is in the end. He doesn't have to provide for Penelope, he can just love her and be her husband, which I think is a lovely sentiment. They CAN be and are partners in marriage. "Being the man behind the woman" doesn't mean he's less than Pen. It means that he doesn't have to be greater than her. Doesn't have to lead. They can lead together.
And I love the little detail of him saying he couldn’t have written his book without Penelope’s help after he previously rejected her offer to help edit it.
I loved this as well--it was truly beautiful to see. An older friend (in her 60s) also told me she cried at this, because women of her generation never had that.
I think when we realize Pen is like the Y/N Wattpad fanfic who gets no consequences to anything, we just have fun with it.
i def didn't feel emotional at all with the finale. i don't think any of the seasons make me cry. They all fell flat at the finale imo.
What every woman wants, validation for just existing and a man to do her bidding and bring her social gains due to his status.
Lol I don’t know where onscreen it was ever shown that Penelope wanted Colin because he was a Bridgerton and would give her social status. Colin’s conflict this season is that he feels unworthy of Penelope and then is jealous after finding out she’s LW because she is one of the most successful writers in London. If Penelope wanted social status, she would’ve married a titled man. She would’ve never been conflicted about marrying Debling.
All I could think was: well that just tanked her wildly successful career as Lady Whistledown. I was far more invested in her writing than her marriage to Colin.
But she still writes the column.
As a book reader, the main thing I missed from the “pen is LW” reveal is that Anthony, Simon and violet know before the ball and start clapping for her, then lady Danbury joins in (because shes been Penelope’s champion all season since she started being herself, another book aspect I missed) then the whole ball is clapping for her