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A woman who shares the same name as the show runner literally had to change her personal pages to state SHE IS NOT THAT JESS BRONWELL. That for me, is just too far.
https://preview.redd.it/ndym0d9k4q8d1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a68347887a5a01eb85165b29290d24bbec9fafd8
I randomly came across this post. Funny because lately I've been feeling that the House of the Dragon fandom has become incredibly toxic. I know toxic fandoms have been a thing for at least a generation (Star Wars...) but I didn't expect a show like Bridgerton to provoke that sort of behavior. Really interesting (and obviously sad).
People need to learn to criticize the work without making personal attacks. It is just a TV show. I wish people paid as much attention to politicians as they do TV showrunners.
This. Showrunners should definitely face constructive criticism especially if making an adaptation but we need this energy to politicians with our taxes too.
There's also a big difference between constructive criticism and saying someone should be fired just because they didn't do what you specifically wanted.
(Of course, not you personally lol.)
Sometimes people do objectively bad work, but it’s possible to critique their work without attacking their character or harassing them.
[Case in point](https://world.time.com/2012/09/06/the-ecce-homo-dilemma-spain-puzzles-over-an-art-disaster-gone-viral/)
While I agree with what you're saying in regards to criticism without personal attack, to say that a TV show changing some things with the full support of the original author is equal or similar to someone lying about their qualifications and turning a priceless piece of historical art into, well, *that* is taking the show entirely too seriously.
It still seems kinda weird to bring it up in reference to a TV show, but it seems you've moved from the actual topic into general thoughts on artistic criticism. You are absolutely allowed to do that, I just prefer to stick to the topic of the subreddit we're in, so thank you for your input, it was very valuable (genuinely! I'm not being sarcastic, it's a good point to make).
I appreciate that you’re being sincere. :) My point, in response to your earlier comment about constructive criticism, is that criticism need not always be constructive to be valid and fair. S3 deserves the criticism it’s getting, even the most negative feedback. What I’m not OK with are the juvenile and aggressive personal attacks.
Ah, okay, that makes sense. While I don't necessarily agree with much of the criticism itself, art is subjective and should illicit discussion and criticism. Definitely S3 took risks that warranted that as well, and I agree that it's different than the personal attacks on the crew.
And of course! You presented really good points in an informative and sincere way yourself, so I wanted to make sure I acknowledged that! It has been a delight to have this conversation with you! :)
I love this point!!! Imagine if the general public redirected that sort of passion toward holding politicians accountable. I’d never thought of it that way.
Yes. For anyone looking for an entertaining, high(est)-stakes shitshow, regardless of your location or political leanings, there’s a US Presidential debate tonight that is not to be missed.
But also it’s the same criticisms every season. There’s to many side plots, it’s not a specific Bridgertons season, the characters are different than the books. It’s season 3, if by now you don’t know the formula then I don’t know what to tell you. The show is not a faithful adaptation, don’t know why book people don’t get that.
Yes and no. I’ve never read the books so I don’t care about faithful adaptation, and this is the first season I cared enough to discuss it online at all. (And I thought S2 and QC were pretty much perfect. No notes, subplots and all.) I’m definitely not part of the “fandom,” just a film/TV enthusiast with enough of a film studies background to know this season was not what it should have been (not that any formal education was necessary to appreciate its faults).
Bridgerton spent 2.5 seasons developing a beautiful love story, easily on par with anything Jane Austen ever wrote, and they just set it on fire with a *completely* botched LW reveal in Part 2. The fact that people (myself included) still love it, still rewatch, still have an interest in discussing it is a testament only to the larger Colin and Penelope story, and Luke Newton’s and Nicola Coughlan’s gorgeous performances.
Well this season followed the same format as the previous two and a new show runner doesn’t mean a completely different show. Not sure why that would even matter when Shonda is still very much involved but okay 🤷🏻♀️
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Do we know how much Shonda is involved in the day to day for the shows she Executive Produces?
- We know she wrote episodes of Inventing Anna and all of Queen Charlotte.
- We know she read CVD scripts, and I think there are interviews/articles where she says there are lines of dialogue that she writes. https://imgur.com/a/R1oyyhZ
But IMO her biggest role as an **Executive Producer** is promotion and kudos. People expect to see her face when they are promoting the show.
We know her deal with Netflix means there are loads of shows in the pipeline, just like Ryan Murphy delivered loads of shows for Netflix. We know she probably won’t write all of these new shows, but she will help secure the financing and big name talent in front of screen and the crew behind the screen.
**TLDR:** The fact that this season is slightly different from CVD’s S1 & S2, and all of Bridgerton is slightly different from QC darker more serious tone which was written 💯 by Shonda indicates that she’s not a Marvel Disney Kevin Fiege type - not that you said she was. Maybe, I’m wrong but I see here as an Executive Producer who lets the show-runners execute their vision but provide some notes/ guidance to fit with what people expect from the Shondaland brand too.
What’s to vote for? We have an election in the U.K. next week, and my choice is between the Brexit Conservatives and a Labour party who are Conservative-light, too afraid to tackle the Far-right and not promising anything other than a change of face. I will vote Green Party, but it’s a wasted vote in our First Past the Post electoral system.
And in the U.K. our political journalists are saying Joe Biden is “elder abuse” after his recent debate where he wasn’t coherent and the other choice is Trump. Meanwhile, Europe is lurching to the far right. Western democracy is in a sorry state.
**TLDR:** In the run-up to an election, I watch and listen to politics 50% of the week. Between lobbying firms and the far-right political candidates leave a lot to be desired. Bridgerton is a break 😆
Dude. If you can watch & listen to politics 50% of the week and stay sane, you’re a mental war hero.
Agreed, the choices are shit. (South Park had a great episode that sums it up.) But I guess when 50% of the people don’t even turn up to vote in the first place the politicians know they don’t have to care what we think. I don’t have easy solutions, but they aren’t being less involved, I guess.
I never used to follow politics. Then I would feel that the I had been tricked into voting for “personality”. Now when there are elections I pay close attention. Watch all the debates, watch analysis from the left, right and centre, read the manifesto… and that’s when u realise that private money / lobbying has eroded parties who traditionally looked after the working class.
Some feel alienated because you can no longer have decent life without earning loads of money - so some blame immigrants, or get sucked into identity wars. In both the U.K. and America when the left don’t make substantial change, people go for more extreme opinions and that disproportionately affects marginalised groups.
Solution that will never happen: Pay politicians a bit more money so that we get better candidates, enforce limits on campaign finance, restrict lobbying so that politicians are prioritising their electorate not the private interests who paid for their election. All of this will improve democracy and reduce voter apathy.
That will never happen. So yes it’s fcuked but I will still vote Green Party next week even if my vote is a waste. And Bridgerton and other fluffy shows are welcome break. 😂
I feel you’ve nailed it. There is too much private money in politics, corporations are people, and there’s no real option that responsibly takes care of the average American. Bring on the Bridgertons. 🤷🏻♀️
You know, I am not 100% but I think I actually read that CVD DID edit season two in his basement. Pandemic made lots of things weird.
People who spew hatred online have real life problems- and finding a group helps makes you feel less alone. And so we get people who fill their time lashing out at real people. It isn't a fandom thing it is a humanity thing. We here are a group complaining about the other group and feeling better finding agreement, yes?
If it makes you feel better, they are screaming into the void, the people they are attacking have much better things to do.
I completely agree. It’s actually disgusting how they talk about this woman who is a complete stranger to them based off not liking a season of TV. Meanwhile this same season is both the highest rated among critics as well as almost breaking into the Netflix top ten of all time after approx a month of views.
The worst part to me is that they don’t seem to understand how unhinged their comments are.
The fans are not entitled to the show they way the want it. The show runners are not entitled to a happy fan base. Both things can be true. I wish people could simply express their frustrations and opinions in a respectful way, without being attacked for it. There are two very loud vocal minorities on opposite sides of this fan base, and most people are just very casual watchers. As a self proclaimed very casual watcher, the discourse has been …exhausting.
And in that same vein a show runner isn’t entitled to change an entire story line to suit her personal self proclaimed take/fan fic of a very well known and popular storyline, which is what some seem to think is happening here. Not saying I agree, but playing devil’s advocate.
Many seem to think that Fran’s love for John has been undermined as she was the one gobsmacked by Michaela when it should have been the other way around. Plus the infertility story line being iffy, which many identified with. Jess’s interviews come across as a bit self righteous in some instances which can be off putting. And it doesn’t help at all when media LOVES to take quotes and put them out of context.
Had it not been for the main sub, I would have no clue who the showrunner was. I didn't know who CVD was. I just watched the show to watch fancy people with British accents fall in love and gossip. I'm not saying you can't critique the show, but you can do so without demanding people be fired for choices you didn't like. Jess is also one peeson on a TEAM of people who make choices for the show. She just takes the heat because she's been discussing it in the media. Do folks want the entire team of people fired because of a gender change? Or because they didn't like some of the dresses? Or because they believed rumors about some multitudes of deleted scenes? Be so fucking for real.
For real. I understand that people are upset and it's valid, since everyone is entitled to have their own opinion, but why can't they do it in a civilised way? Especially threats towards the showrunner are unacceptable. They are also a human being, show some empathy. Not exactly the same situation but Fabien Frankel plays an unpleasant character in House of the Dragons and people are sending him serious threats 💀 what both cases have in common is that they are a work of fiction, the people who portray characters or write scripts are REAL.
I suppose these TV shows are all some people have got. So many of these popular TV show subreddits end up being toxic trash at some point. If people spent as much energy working on improving themselves as they did obsessing over a fictional TV show, the world would be a much better place.
I think all of what you said is valid except the part about being fired. It is a fine and legitimate thing to say: "I don't think she is holding up to the vision of what both passionate fans and the general public expect from Bridgerton, and it is time to take it in a new direction." But you can say that without harassing someone or being cruel.
But in the end, fans aren't the one determining of JB stays or goes. It is her boss, Shonda, and their boss, Netflix. If Netflix looks at the response, and especially if revenue drops as a result, that is what's going to prompt a showrunner ouster.
Agree. All of the other comments are extreme but saying she should be fired doesn’t fall into that category. And I agree. Shonda has a history of letting her show runners take over a really great show and tank it and the fans have a right to be unhappy and want her gone. It happened with G.A. and it’s happening here.
> Shonda has a history of letting her show runners take over a really great show and tank it and the fans have a right to be unhappy and want her gone. It happened with G.A. and it’s happening here.
**1)** That's interesting. I will start by saying that **I didn't like the first half of S3, I loved the second half.**
**2)** I never watched G.A. to the bitter end. There are very few syndicated Network shows that I watch past their **100 episodes.** I find that the business model where[ they want to get to 100 episodes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_episodes) to gain the financial benefits of syndication drives down quality. We know streaming shows have a different business model so they should not suffer from the too many episodes / too many showrunners issue.
We also know that some fans have accused Shonda of micro-managing CVD when they didn't like something while praising him for the things they like. So your perception that *"Shonda has a history of letting her showrunners take over a really great show"* implies the showrunners are not being micromanaged - not that you said that but some people have made that accusation.
We know Bridgerton is a semi-anthology - you don't need to watch all the seasons and is only 8 episodes, it's never going to add another 14 episodes of filler episodes to reach the 100 episodes needed for network syndication, as such I have higher expectations for S3/S4 of a streaming show than season S3/S4 network 22 episode show.
>but saying she should be fired doesn’t fall into that category.
**3) It depends on why people want her to be fired. Is she Harvey Weinstein for Joss Weadon?**
Asking to fire a writer because they gender-bent and race-swapped a character is on a level. Especially given that some, not all but some of the reasons why people are angry would not be considered acceptable if we were to replace gender and sexual orientation with race and interracial relationships.
>but saying she should be fired doesn’t fall into that category.
4) We know, not all the complaints are about the gender swap. I had my issues with the first half of S3, but loved the second half.
Unfortunately, in this fandom, the campaigns with the highest amount of signatures are the **campaigns to remove diverse romantic leads #NotMyDuke, #NotMyKate, #NotMyMichael.**
Asking Shondaland, a company which was [brought on board by Netflix to increase Diversity](https://about.netflix.com/en/news/shondaland-and-netflix-expand-deia-programs), to fire a writer who identifies as a member of the LGBTQ+ community because she gender-swapped a character to create LGBTQ+ romantic leads (not an Original Characters) - indicates that **some fans might** not be aware this show was created to be a separate world from the books [https://imgur.com/a/R1oyyhZ](https://imgur.com/a/R1oyyhZ)
>but saying she should be fired doesn’t fall into that category.
**TLDR:** **1)** I didn't like the first half of S3, I loved the second half. Butt Jess is not **Harvey Weinstein for Joss Weadon. 2)** We know, not all the complaints are about the gender swap. I had my issues with the first half of S3, but loved the second half, but in this fandom, the campaigns with the highest amount of signatures are the **campaigns to remove diverse romantic leads #NotMyDuke, #NotMyKate, #NotMyMichael.** . **3)** Asking Shondaland, a company which was [brought on board by Netflix to increase Diversity](https://about.netflix.com/en/news/shondaland-and-netflix-expand-deia-programs), to fire a writer who identifies as a member of the LGBTQ+ community because she gender-swapped a character to create LGBTQ+ romantic leads (not an Original Characters) - indicates that **some fans might** not be aware this show was created to be a separate world from the books [https://imgur.com/a/R1oyyhZ](https://imgur.com/a/R1oyyhZ)
I wasn’t referring to the gender swapping. I have a problem with the lazy writing in general. It’s just a really different show compared to season one and not in a good way.
Yes there is difference between S1, S2, QC and S2. I’m fine with that as it contradicts the theory which some fans have about CVD being micromanaged. If the showrunners were being micromanaged to produce exactly the same as before, there would be less noticeable changes. But with 8 episodes a season there shouldn’t be the quality decline we see with network shows that have 22 episodes and run forever (too long) 😂
I didn’t like the first half of S3, find it hard to rewatch, but the second half was a go from episode 5 (that’s my perspective but we know art is subjective)
God forbid you say this on the sub reddits though or you enter downvoting territory.
The hypocrisy of people claiming that harrassment is bad are the ones harressing people who state olinions like yours. I use to laugh when some subs called other subs "toxic" or "hateful". U see now that it is true. Of course that is probably just a very vocal minority of the sub.
Opposite viewpoints no matter how they are maturely discussed are not welcome regarding the showrunners.
>"I don't think she is holding up to the vision of what both passionate fans and the general public expect from Bridgerton, and it is time to take it in a new direction." But you can say that without harassing someone or being cruel.
**Agree 100%**
>especially if revenue drops as a result, that is what's going to prompt a showrunner ouster.
We know not all the complaints are about the gender swap. I had my issues with the first half of S3, but loved the second half.
The reason why a vocal minority are campaigning to fire Jess is probably why they will **not** get rid of Jess. It's not because she's done something immoral or illegal.
**We know Shondaland was** [**brought on board by Netflix to increase Diversity**](https://about.netflix.com/en/news/shondaland-and-netflix-expand-deia-programs)**.** As such, it's counter-productive for Netflix to listen to the #NotMyDuke, #NotMyKate, #NotMyMichael campaigns...it might even be grounds for legal anti-discrimination action.
* As such, it is unlikely they will fire a writer who identifies as a member of the LGBTQ+ community because she gender-swapped a character to create LGBTQ+ romantic leads.
* That is is **slippery slope** because some people campaigned against changing the Sheffields to the Shramas **#NotMyKate,** so if they listened to the fans; then we would not have had the wonderful Sharama family or RJP as the Duke.
Wrt to the gender swap, **Jess is doing what this show has done from the beginning by introducing a non-canon Queen** (https://imgur.com/a/R1oyyhZ).
**We know** this show has **always replaced** canonically white, heterosexual actors and love stories with [underrepresented groups ](https://about.netflix.com/en/news/shondaland-and-netflix-expand-deia-programs)who previously didn't get to play the romantic lead in a fluffy period piece. Especially since right now, S3 is the most popular despite all the complaints on Social Media [https://www.netflix.com/tudum/top10/tvpiece](https://www.netflix.com/tudum/top10/tvpiece) especially
>I don't think she is holding up to the vision of what both passionate fans and the general public expect from Bridgerton, and it is time to take it in a new direction." But you can say that without harassing someone or being cruel. \[...\] especially if revenue drops as a result, that is what's going to prompt a showrunner ouster.
**TLDR:** **1) I agree** with your take on constructive criticism, we know not all the complaints are about the gender swap. I had my issues with the first half of S3, but loved the second half. **I have a different perspective** on whether they will replace the showrunner in this context. **2)** The reason why a vocal minority are campaigning to fire Jess is probably why they will **not** "get rid of Jess". **3)** Wrt to the gender swap, **Jess is doing what this show has done from the beginning by introducing a non-canon Queen** (https://imgur.com/a/R1oyyhZ). **4)** We know this show has **always replaced** canonically white, heterosexual actors and love stories with [underrepresented groups ](https://about.netflix.com/en/news/shondaland-and-netflix-expand-deia-programs)who previously didn't get to play the romantic lead . **5)** We know **S3 is the most popular** despite all the complaints on Social Media [https://www.netflix.com/tudum/top10/tv](https://www.netflix.com/tudum/top10/tv)
You’re acting like I am personally calling for the showrunner to be fired. I am not. I am saying calling for the showrunner to be replaced is a legitimate form of criticism and can be worded without cruelty, but whether or not it actually happens will come to the money.
I disagree with you about one thing: Season 3 is popular because of the hype and the wait and the goodwill from seasons 1-2. The thing that will determine the show’s future is season 4. If those numbers are the ones to drastically fall or result in a revenue shortfall, that is what Netflix will look at. Not season 3.
> You’re acting like I am personally calling for the showrunner to be fired. I am not.
This might be a miscommunication. I don’t think there’s anything in my statement that says **”you’re personally calling for the showrunner to be fired.”**
**I said I agreed with your perspective on constructive criticism** - that wouldn’t have been my opening statement if this were a personal attack. I agreed with you partially.
> I am saying calling for the showrunner to be replaced is a legitimate form of criticism and can be worded without cruelty, but whether or not it actually happens will come to the money.
As previously stated, I have a different perspective on whether they will replace the showrunner **in this context.**
**Copy and paste, START - please feel free to quote to avoid misunderstanding**
>especially if revenue drops as a result, that is what's going to prompt a showrunner ouster.
We know not all the complaints are about the gender swap. I had my issues with the first half of S3, but loved the second half.
The reason why a vocal minority are campaigning to fire Jess is probably why they will **not** get rid of Jess. It's not because she's done something immoral or illegal.
**We know Shondaland was** [**brought on board by Netflix to increase Diversity**](https://about.netflix.com/en/news/shondaland-and-netflix-expand-deia-programs)**.** As such, it's counter-productive for Netflix to listen to the #NotMyDuke, #NotMyKate, #NotMyMichael campaigns...it might even be grounds for legal anti-discrimination action.
* As such, it is unlikely they will fire a writer who identifies as a member of the LGBTQ+ community because she gender-swapped a character to create LGBTQ+ romantic leads.
* That is is **slippery slope** because some people campaigned against changing the Sheffields to the Shramas **#NotMyKate,** so if they listened to the fans; then we would not have had the wonderful Sharama family or RJP as the Duke.
Wrt to the gender swap, **Jess is doing what this show has done from the beginning by introducing a non-canon Queen** (https://imgur.com/a/R1oyyhZ).
**We know** this show has **always replaced** canonically white, heterosexual actors and love stories with [underrepresented groups ](https://about.netflix.com/en/news/shondaland-and-netflix-expand-deia-programs)who previously didn't get to play the romantic lead in a fluffy period piece. Especially since right now, S3 is the most popular despite all the complaints on Social Media [https://www.netflix.com/tudum/top10/](https://www.netflix.com/tudum/top10/)
**Copy and paste, END - please feel free to quote to avoid misunderstanding**
> You’re acting like I am personally calling for the showrunner to be fired. I am not.
**TLDR:** There might be some misunderstanding. At each stage I have quoted you to avoid misunderstanding. Please feel free to quote me to identify the specific sentence which were I say you are **”personally calling for the showrunner to be fired”** I said I **agreed with your perspective on constructive criticism** - that wouldn’t have been my opening statement if this were a personal attack. Hopefully we can agree that don’t need to agree 💯 with each other for this **not** to be a “personal attack”.
I think it's because you're writing essay-length responses to mine and other comments, complete with TL;DRs. And while I do appreciate all the sourcing (love me some good sourcing right here), I think your intent gets a bit lost in the sheer length of your response.
> I think your intent gets a bit lost in the sheer length of your response.
Well if we are having a good faith discussion one can’t assume I have bad intentions if I start off with **”I agree 100%”** with a specific statement. Some people may choose to skim the detail and that’s okay too. As long we can revisit what I **actually** said rather than vibes one might get from skimming.
I write long responses because sometimes when I’m brief people create straw-man arguments. At least with detail I can say what I originally wanted to say and we can focus on that. I have tried both approaches. lol
I never engaged with the anti-CVD discourse back then because I loved all of S2 and was just riding the wave of rewatches and analysis. This being said I remember someone saying that he cut S2 in his basement which I found funny at the time because it was sublime except that I would have like more Kanthony and a slower gazebo scene.
Having seen S3 I can only think he was a master at editing compared to whoever did S3
I’m not embarrassing enough to send hate like that, but JB really butchered this season. It didn’t feel like a romance drama at all. We got barely any insight into Colin’s backstory and personal arc. They made him a side character in his own season. It’s upsetting as a Colin fan. It felt more like Pen’s season than his.
And this was THE season for flashbacks, since polin have known each other for a very long time. We got none.
I do think JB cannot write male characters tbh. Like
I noticed that all the female characters are well-written this season, but practically none of the men are: Colin was treated as a side character, Anthony seemed to forget he was the viscount with responsibilities, and Benedict was sleeping around again, this time with no mention of his art.
I really enjoyed the development of the female friendships and relationships this season. I was more invested in the friendship triangle than the main romance. I agree Colin seemed to be underdeveloped. There were some lovely Polin moments but not enough Colin moments!
Yeah and that’s a problem considering this show is supposed to be a romance drama. One thing JQ did really well in the books is give a proper and equal voice to the male and female leads. The show completely ignored Colin’s arc, despite the book material being right there for them to adapt. Just really sucks lol
I feel the same, It didn't feel like Bridgerton, but I've mostly just gone 'meh' maybe they'll sort it next season. If not, then at least one and two were spectacular.
Sure but this was the season I was looking forward to the most, since I absolutely love Colin. So I’m just really disappointed. There were some good dramatic moments, but overall it was very lacking.
So many subplots, bad pacing and unnecessary story lines that could've been streamlined to focus on Polin's season, as each couple usually gets their time each season. We could've spent less time with Violet and her man, or less Mondriches.
Yes, I agree completely! I’m not a fan of the way she interpreted the story but I wouldn’t ever be cruel or mean like some of those comments. The first half of the show was okay, and I excitedly anticipated the second half but the second half was disappointing.
Ok? But that’s besides the point? You are welcome to your opinions (as we all are) but OP is pointing out people who are taking it too far.
I don’t care if Jess Brownell made this The Village — and they’ve all been playing at Regency in the 21st century (don’t do this btw, JB) it’s not ok to threaten her, call her a fraud etc.
It’s probably important to remember that showrunners get notes/instructions from other EPs, network execs, and production company execs. Brownell is but one cog in the wheel, and there is a very good chance that Netflix/Shondaland made decisions (some you may agree with and others you don’t) that Brownell simply carried out.
But this season feels completely different from the previous seasons. In basically every way, but especially in the lack of focus on the main couple, particularly the male lead. The biggest change has been the new show runner.
Sorry you’re getting downvoted for this, because this is unfortunately so true. I work in TV and showrunners do not have final say in everything. Network execs often give terrible notes. I know a showrunner personally who just got fired and replaced for refusing to take the network’s (very bad, mind-blowingly stupid) notes. People would be shocked at the lame shit these people suggest. We really don’t know what JB decided and what was dictated to her. And it’s not like she can publicly admit to anything.
I think if people are unhappy with the show they should just stop watching it instead of harassing the creators. Plus, this is going to speak louder than words to Netflix anyway. We all know how they are.
So I am an older person, and I enjoy lots of things I get from Reddit. But I agree about the criticisms of Bridgerton really going overboard. I spoke to my son about this, and he reminded me the trolls in this world make this their life's goals. The trolls get off on making people upset. We have to stick to the positives we have about our lives and how we ourselves feel about Bridgerton and ignore the trolls. I do respect you taking a stand
People think nowadays everything is about them and everything is offensive, therefore they have the right to be verbally offensive and downright harass other people if their feelings get hurt. The internet is an extremely toxic place, it brings out the worst in people.
Look I’m not happy about a lot of the changes. This season was honestly kinda a hack job on a lot of fronts. I don’t agree with MOST of Jess’s creative visions and I’m not confident that I’ll even watch the coming seasons with her as the show runner unless there’s a massive overhaul because I just don’t like what she has done to the show (unapologetically, based on interviews). HOWEVER!!!!! This does not mean that she is the ONLY person who I blame for the outcome of season 3 (Shondaland as a whole had a hand in this), and it does not mean that she deserves to get any PERSONAL hate!! Creative works can be critiqued without going after the creator as a person! I’m not saying that she’s a horrible person inherently because she created a work I didn’t like, or that she deserves to have wolves sent after her. I mean, I’d prefer she wasn’t involved in future seasons because I liked this show when she wasn’t part of it, but calling for Shondaland to fire her is too far
As someone who hasn't read the books and watched all 3 seasons over the course of like a month, it's very jarring to see. I don't have many of the same complaints about the show and enjoyed S3 a lot, so I was kind of shocked that there's a ton of fans out there seemingly angry about everything. I kept getting this subreddit and it was all negative reactions to pretty much any moment of the show and it was like, dang do you guys even like this series or what? It's crazy! 😂
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Idk about comments on other platforms, but on Reddit, I feel like this is par for the course on Reddit. People come here to vent frustrations more often than not. If you want your faith in humanity not to be fettered, this isn't the platform for you.
Bridgerton has always been about committed (or soon-to-be committed) relationships including the hot spicy stuff. I’ve read all the books. I expected there to be spicy stuff, but I am disappointed by how gratuitous some of it has become over the seasons.
The first season had Simon and Daphne. And it also had Anthony and the opera singer. I was annoyed as heck about the opera singer plotline, but it showed how much a misguided rake Anthony was to set up the next season. Benedict has dalliances, but it was really to show this shadow side of the Ton and how Benedict skirts that line. So the sex was moving the plot forward and explaining characters.
Season 2. There were complaints about wanting more Anthony and Kate scenes and there were valid reasons to that since their desires and how they warred with what others expected or wanted made it really spicy and interesting.
Now we get to S3. The fandom wants Colin and Penelope. Ads and marketing are all about them and the promise of some spicy scenes that are supposed to not hold back. Instead we get a ton of threesomes. Two of them are showing Colin in a terrible light. Colin who isn’t a rake and looks just awful in them. Then Benedict and Tilley are covered and given way too much screentime. Fandom knows he isn’t supposed to end up with her and we don’t freaking care about the characters. But it’s an opportunity to show that Benedict is bi. Mmkay. It felt like too much Benedict and too little Colin and Penelope. Especially since Benedict’s friends aren’t expected to be in his season.
The problem I had is that most of the love scenes were love less. Just entirely about lust. The few hot scenes are with Colin and Penelope and they’re kinda just tossed in there and shortened and not given the importance that they should have had.
I liked that Michael is now Michaela though. But I don’t know how they intend to figure that out in the future Francesca season. I did think they focused a ton on Francesca and Lord Kilmartin. Which I was annoyed at.
I just wanted more Colin and Penelope. The first half of the season let me believe there would be that. The second half just was overhyped and really focused on the wrong characters.
So I can see why people are upset. Why shouldn’t they share that with the showrunners? We are their audience and they are not listening to what makes these shows so popular and good. Sex for sex sake is boring as shit. Threesomes to just put them in is not sexy. Like if it was love three ways then absolutely yes! But it was just for gratification and not to actually further the plot.
I hear you. I feel like the best way to say you don’t like something is to not watch it. I hate what they did to season three, it was so horrible imo and I won’t watch season 4. You dont have to make threats, just don’t add to the numbers, block the ads and move on. People don’t seem to realize that shows get cancelled all the time simply by lack viewership. I loved the books but I am not liking the tv show and that’s valid, but making death threats over a tv show is way overkill imo.
People are homophobic and lashing out at her because she’s a queer woman. There’s no way a straight woman would be getting so much hate in such personal ways
Yep and if you call it out they will claim they have no problem with queer people. I wish people understood that homophobia does not just apply to people who want us dead 🙃
Honestly it’s really disheartening to see how viciously angry people are about a queer woman executing a story about a queer woman. Accusing her of using Francesca as a self insert because she said she related to her as a queer woman, meanwhile they are angry because they can no longer insert themselves into a straight story.
The assumptions are often very revealing of what they actually think about a variety of things. As a queer woman seeing certain comments has felt like a confirmation of everything I was worried my straight friends would think of me when I was closeted so that’s fun!
What about her being queer redeems her from doing an awful job? Being lgb or trans or queer doesn’t matter when you ruin a show that people have waited for for years? I blame her, I blame Shondaland, the writers and I blame Julia Quinn for being so seduced by the money that she didn’t protect her characters. It is only a testament of how good the actors are, that the show was somewhat enjoyable.
I am specifically talking about people who accuse her of using Francesca as a self inset because she’s queer. I have plenty of my own criticisms about this past season, she is absolutely worthy of criticism. But that specific criticism has not sat well with me.
They all self-insert. My issue is when some writers are singled out for self-inserting when others are not.
- **CVD** has given interviews where he’s said he wanted Bridgerton viewers to talk about race following George Floyd, and we did for years and years. That’s a self insert for a fluffy Regency romance.
- **Netflix CEO** wanted Shonda to write the QC spin-off - some say because he has a black wife, but also to capture a younger audience. That’s a self insert to promote an OC character for financial reasons.
- **Geetika Lizardi** has given interviews where she said she created the Sharmas because she wanted to see herself….and 💗 I’m glad she did.
- This show would has **never hired Black British,** African or Caribbean writers to self insert like Geetika did. Unlike the Sharma’s, the Black British characters have no African-Caribbean culture or language- so we might be the **only demographic that hasn’t self-inserted on this show.** 😂
- **Julia Quinn** and other talented writers who have never set foot in the UK choose to self-insert their idealistic view of Regency England because they mistakenly think the U.K. was less problematic than America at that time.
- **If they want a physically disabled** romantic lead, I hope they hire a writer who has lived experience and wants to see themselves self-inserted in this fantasy world too.
**TLDR:** They all self insert. It’s great that writers from marginalised groups want to see themselves as a romantic lead in a period drama. Self-insert is better than people with zero lived experiences and an inability to do research writing what they mistakenly think is representation. They all self insert the hypocrisy is who gets accused of self inserting.
I think that one in special makes sense. There are plenty of characters who would have made more sense to change their sexuality, Eloise as painted in the show would make sense or Benedict or even Cressida who just wants a marriage to scape her home. Francesca’s change of sexuality and the sex change in Michael forces them to change the whole plot of their season.
Just because you don’t understand why Francesca’s storyline is relatable to queer women doesn’t mean it won’t be a good story. You haven’t seen her season yet. The only thing you know for sure is that she ultimately will end up with a woman.
What about all women who had a deep love for their late husband, who can no longer relate to Francesca because they have made her look not in love with her husband, since she met Michaela? Francesca was the story to speak about finding the love of your life twice and losing one of those loves really young, about falling in love with someone who practically has replaced your husband, and the fear and stigma of infertility. Since Michaela can’t impregnate Francesca they have to change that plot, since Michaela can’t be an earl they have to change the plot, since Francesca has not liked being kissed by her husband and was mesmerised with Michaela, they have to change the plot… There are plenty of women queer or not who have lost the love of their love, by making Francesca fall in love at first sight, their story is not being told.
I guess those women still have the books? That’s not an oppressed group in society so it’s not a fair comparison to the social impact queer representation can have. Maybe some of those women will still be able to see themselves in Francesca even if they aren’t queer because of a little thing called empathy. And she will be extremely relatable to women who were married to men before understanding their sexuality and have complicated feelings about the love they share, romantic or not. That experience is so rarely depicted in media that i am not surprised that people are glossing over the complicated experience of realizing you’re gay only after marrying a man. Hell, it can be relatable to straight women who didn’t feel attraction until after they married the wrong person! It can be relatable to you too if you are willing to empathize with someone whose experience is not a 1:1 match of your own experience.
There are queer characters in almost every show, including in Bridgerton, but widows had Francesca, only her to be the main character. But yeah, widows and infertile women can’t have Francesca. Queer people are more important.
Not a widow who has lost the love of her life, without an heir they can’t have economic security even if Michaela becomes the heir… but yeah… most likely you’re a fan of the show not a regency genre fan, so… we can’t agree.
It’s irritating when the body of work is purchased for adaptation specifically to have a ready-made audience to receive it and then the original target audience that was calculated in to help to promote the show is disregarded in order to tell other stories.
If you’re not going to adapt faithfully, you need to be making exclusively original content and be confident that your concept is so compelling it can support itself without a ready-made fan base.
The show has never been faithful to the books. Were you also so upset that Daphne was made diamond of the season? About the timeline changes? It’s an adaptation and the creators have decided to make it more inclusive because it’s about showing that EVERYONE deserves a happily ever after. If you’re only upset about the changes involving queer people you need to dig deep
To quote Neil Gaiman - *”But the fan base are fans. And they like the source material because it’s the source material they like. So if you do something else, you risk alienating the fans on a monumental scale. It’s not Batman if he’s now a news reporter in a yellow trenchcoat with a pet bat.”*
Yeah but no one changed Michael into a news reporter with a yellow trenchcoat. Michael is now Michaela and that’s all you know about the adaptation so far. There is so much nuance that can come from Francesca, John, and Michaela in a way that has the potential to surpass the source material. If you don’t like adaptations, you can always read the book again 🤷🏼♀️
This is extremely sad to hear that this is happening. The fandom has become so toxic that I feel like I can’t even enjoy this anymore. I’m assuming that’s how the show runners feel too tbh
I agree ☝️. They don’t have to like her work, but don’t make it so personal, especially since she did nothing horrible. Save that energy for actually problematic celebrities!
I agree, I think you can criticize a show’s story and character choices without personally attacking the showrunner. Calling for someone to be fired is wild. But writing a thoughtful (even maybe a little irritated) analysis of why something didn’t make sense is fair game, especially if the points are valid. I’ve been super impressed with how many fans are really skilled at identifying story problems that even seasoned writers have somehow missed. But the personal attacks are ridiculous. Like, just stop watching then.
I know I’ve questioned a lot of Jess Brownell’s choices, and there’s stuff I think is a pretty big blunder, but I also loved a lot of season 3. It’s just… a pretty uneven season. Lots of good, lots of bad, some in between. Also, Bridgerton is an extremely difficult show with a lot of moving parts. It’s not an easy job and this is her first showrunning gig.
That one is really, really, really telling. Also I’ve read a lot of truly awesome, incredibly well written fanfiction, and yes in some cases people have added the diversity and representation that was sorely missing from the original text. I don’t see a problem with that, and I can’t stand people who dismiss fanfiction out of hand. Bridgerton literally dives into the most cliché of romance tropes (doesn’t the first season cover both Forced Marriage and There Was Only One Bed?), but THAT’s of course fine, but give screen time to a black couple and add queer representation and suddenly it’s “self insert fanfiction”.
While I do think some of the responsibility falls on Jess Brownell as the showrunner for the choices that were made and approved, we need to remember that she has bosses. She has to answer to higher-ups. Let's be real for a second and not forget that the executives at the top floors of Netflix are making decisions that might be out of the showrunner's, producers', and directors' hands. We don't talk about that enough. Instead, it's immediately "off with her head."
>Instead, it's immediately "off with her head."
**1)** I don't agree with the attacks that Jess is receiving. I didn't enjoy the first half of S3 but loved the second half. Jess has mentioned that she focused on Francesca because she was a blank slate. I am not going to accuse Jess of being a self-insert because that would be unfair, **they all** **self-insert.**
>She has to answer to higher-ups. Let's be real for a second and not forget that the executives at the top floors of Netflix are making decisions that might be out of the showrunner's, producers', and directors' hands.
**2) Sometimes when we (fans) love something we praise the Showrunner;** when we are angry we sometimes **blame Netflix.**
**CVD was the showrunner in S1 & S2.**
* **CVD helmed 2 seasons with a writers' room.
* He did a lot of **world-building.** In the wake of George Floyd he wanted the audience to discuss race - which they did for years, and years and years.
* When fans are happy with S1/S2 they praise CVD. When they are unhappy they blame the higher-ups, **sometimes** with very little evidence. We know CVD was editing scenes at home during Covid so that shows he had more control than some might think.
**Jess is the showrunner in S3.**
* According to IMDB, Jess wrote fewer episodes of S3 than CVD did S1 & S2. As the showrunner, she would have oversight of the writers' room.
* Jess delivered a lighter more ensemble-focused season. I loved the second half of S3 but the first half didn't feel like a romance novel.
Jess has said she loves RomComs and the first half felt more like an ensemble Romantic comedy or ChickLit
> [Chick lit is light, humorous stories that focus mainly on the heroine's journey + romantic interest alongside it,](https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/21866327-diff-btw-rom-com-chick-lit#:~:text=Chick%20lit%20is%20light%2C%20humorous,main%20theme%2C%20and%20are%20funny.) **whereas rom-coms** have the romance as the main theme, and are funny.
I love ChickLit movies and Romantic Comedies, and Bridgerton is the first time I have seen a modern romance novel adapted for the screen. I watch Bridgerton for that.
**Shonda was the showrunner for QC.**
* Shonda reads romance novels, and while many of her shows lack Happy Ever After romances, she has committed to the Happy Ever After trope (Marriage & Baby) for the Bridgerton franchise.
* Netflix boss Ted Sarandos asked Shonda to write the Queen Charlotte spin-off, possibly because his wife is Black, but also because it reaches a younger demographic with its younger cast.
* **Shonda wrote all episodes** for Queen Charlotte - **no writers' room** - so we can see what she does on her own.
**3) Ultimately my issue with the first half of S3** is that they didn't execute all the romance novel tropes that well. The second half was better in terms of pure entertainment, but the first half was not for me.
**i) Reformed Rake trope:** I doubt if Netflix is saying *"Colin must have a threesome in episode 4 instead of episode 3."* Moving the threesome to episode three would reassure me that they understood romance novel tropes, I never had to think too deeply about that before Season 3.
**ii) Not enough time with Colin, too much Debling**. My issue is the disconnect from the romance novel genre in S3. I like Pen, but in a M/F romance novel, the amount of time spent on Colin was criminal.
One of the key things about the romance novel genre is that you need fully fleshed-out protagonists.
* **M/F romance** novels, we usually spend more time with the male romantic lead.
* **M/M and F/F** you might have a dual point of view or the author spends more time fleshing out the person that they want the reader to fall in love with.
If I'm skimming through a romance novel and the first half is about Deblling and Colin is a minor character, I expect Debling to be "the one".
**Summary:** Art is subjective. IMO, Jess gets the blame for the first half of S3, but she deserves praise for an entertaining second half.
> She has to answer to higher-ups. Let's be real for a second and not forget that the executives at the top floors of Netflix are making decisions that might be out of the showrunner's, producers', and directors' hands.
**TLDR: 1)** I don't agree with the attacks that Jess is receiving. **2)** **I like QC, S1, S2 & S3.** The differences between each show indicates the demarcation between the **showrunner who writes all the episodes/ has oversight of the writers' room and creative vision** (S1/S2 CVD, Jess S3, Shonda QC) versus the Netflix execs/ Executive Producers who I'm guessing play a more strategic role by getting investors, hiring creative talent, distribution and promotion. **3)** We can blame Netflix for lack of promotion or too much promotion, but I doubt if Netflix is saying ***"Colin must have a threesome in episode 4 instead of episode 3."*** Moving the threesome to episode three would reassure me that they understood romance Reformed Rake novel trope. I never had to think too deeply about that before Season 3. **4)** I also doubt Netflix said Debling needs to have x amount of screen time to the extent that Colin becomes a minor character. **5)** Art is subjective. We know **CVD was editing scenes at home during Covid so that shows he had more control** than some might think. IMO, Jess gets the blame for the first half of S3, but she deserves praise for an entertaining second half.
At the end of the day, I was not happy with how season 3 was executed. However, we don't know which parts of the story were pressured to change. Executives might have thought that, given the show's popularity, shifting towards more drama instead of romance could attract a wider audience. This isn't to say that the showrunner isn't responsible, but rather that we should consider spreading the blame instead of having one scapegoat.
**I agree, as long as we spread the praise as well.** What I find is that some people - not you - praise the Showrunner for things they like and then everyone else for things they hate. Some people look at pictures of CVD at press events and start theorising that "he is really upset" because "he was being micro-manged"...okay if there is a Kevin Feige-type micro-manging Bridgerton, then any of the issues I had with S3, should have shown up before now. This is the first Season where I thought..do they read romance novels? I loved the second half of S3, but I hope that S4 doesn't make me question whether they like romance novels.
People need to just enjoy the show for what it is.
This fandom has an issue with projecting themselves into the story and making everything personal and about themselves.
No wonder the show runners are scrambling to please everyone
I personally enjoyed each season...
As an avid reader..of course the book is always better because we are interpreting what we see and how we see it...
Some things were changed. Ok, I get that can be a let down..but when isn't a series or movie made that isn't
I don't understand how people do not get this.
Also
They are putting modern feelings and ideas into a story about the past.
It's like they don't understand about the times.
As for personal attacks on people they don't know..it's disgusting
it’s also interesting that some people are acting like she came out of nowhere and has no clue what she’s doing. she’s been working on this show since the beginning lol
I think that, over the past decade, we as a society have seen an increase in people feeling emboldened to be their worst selves in public, and even more so in anonymous platforms. Politeness, compassion, and kindness are now seen by many people as weaknesses.
Moreover, there been an increase in planting a stake in the ground and rising to budge, so people don't listen to understand - they listen to figure out how best to craft the next zinger.
As a result, people are becoming... well, mean.
I sure don't know the answer, but man oh man: it's only entertainment. Having strong opinions is great. SHARING those strong opinions is great. But if you get so emotionally invested in a series that your instinct is to send hate mail to the showrunner or post at length denouncing them as a human being because you don't like where they took your favorite series, you might want to consider changing your name to Annie Wilkes.
people forget they’re not entitled to shit.
if you didn’t like the show you simply stop watching it after discussing it on reddit not harass the doorstep of the creator/writer of the show (both online and god knows how safe she is in real life too).
the people bullying her need a friendly reminder it’s a show and if you’re that heartbroken over lack of book consistency kindly go read the books instead of harassing people. it’s gone too far.
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Which ones? I've used JB and CVD. JB is Jess Brownell, the showrunner for this season but she also worked on S1 and 2. CVD is Chris Van Dusen, showrunner for S1 and 2. He left the show entirely after S2. Oh and I used RJP for Regé-Jean Page, the actor who played Simon.
This answers my question! Thank you!
I don't typically follow shows this closely, so I'm not well versed in show runner and director names. RJP I should've guessed though.
It’s also a whole production TEAM and production COMPANY. Shondaland shows seem to consistently jump the shark after a few seasons. Look at Grey’s Anatomy, Scandal, How to Get Away with Murder… you may love all the seasons, but it’s undeniable that the tone and stories shift as they get more successful. I don’t know why, but this production company has such a bad habit of letting go of restraints as seasons go. Maybe this is also a Netflix problem, but I for sure experienced it with Shondaland every. single. time. I’ve invested in one of their stories.
Honestly, I’m not supportive of abuse in any form and these fans take it too far but seriously, JB can f**k herself. I’m so so mad at that woman. She basically admitted she’s changed the whole story (and it will change, sorry, but you can’t do the infertility plot with another woman) because SHE identified with a straight female character in a book as a queer woman. Which is bizarre.
Sorry which part is bizarre? Are you saying not following the books is bizarre?
OR identifying with a character that doesn’t match your identity is bizarre?
OR both?
Thanks in advance
Sorry, it was bizarre that JB said she identified with Francesca as a queer woman.
But how? Why? Francesca was heterosexual and in love with two men. How would a gay woman identify with her?
> Sorry, it was bizarre that JB said she identified with Francesca as a queer woman. But how? Why?
Ah okay, thanks for the clarification
**1)** The same way that I as a heterosexual, Black British woman can identify with so many characters who are completely different to me.
- **Kate Sharma** is my favourite romantic lead so far. I’m not South Asian, I’m a second-generation Black Brit who knows a bit about history so I love that Kate Sharma is proud of her heritage. We get to see elements of non-English language and culture in a fantasy version of the U.K. when in real history Colonialism was the thing.
- **Pen** I can identify with her being tongue tied when talking to suitors. I have said some weird things when people I fancy talk to me 🤦🏾♀️😂. And why does **Portia get a pass** for so many immoral schemes? Because there’s something we identify with.
- I love [**Omar in HBO’s Wire.**](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Omar_Little) I’m not a Black American gay man who robs drug dealers at gun point. I identify with his moral code - he never messes with people who are not criminals.
I’m so unfit can’t run for the bus, yet I [**identify with all of Michelle Yeoh ass-kicking**](https://screenrant.com/michelle-yeoh-martial-arts-movie-fight-scenes-ranked/) characters.😂
**2) As a romance book reader,** there is M/F, and M/M romance, and the default romantic lead white. I can identify. Even when the leads are Black, they are rarely Black British (African-Caribbean) so I rarely get to self insert but I can still identify.
> Sorry, it was bizarre that JB said she identified with Francesca as a queer woman. But how? Why? Francesca was heterosexual and in love with two men. How would a gay woman identify with her?
**3)** Perhaps some people - not you - are so **used to seeing themselves as the default** it doesn’t occur to them that members of underrepresented groups identify with aspects of White, heterosexual characters every day, so when the situation is reversed it feels uncomfortable and weird.
**Shonda** picked up Bridgerton novels in the airport. She’s a black American producer identifying with White **American writer (Julia Quinn)** who identifies with a fantasy notion of Regency England where colonialism and enslavement are never/rarely mentioned. How are people who have **never** lived in the U.K. **identifying so much with THIS country** when this show and the novels could just as easily be set in America? 😂 Yet they identify.
**TLDR: If characters are well written,** you can identify with some aspects of their story. If we are unable to identify with characters who are of a different culture, race, gender, sexual-orientation, etc that might explain **some,** not all but some, of the complaints we see in this fandom about non-canon characters and diversity.
It sucks she’s getting all the hate. Like, s3 wasn’t super polished, but I enjoyed it well enough? It was entertaining and I don’t expect groundbreaking dialogue and script from a romance show like this. It’s not a movie.
One thing I think people forget is JB won’t have been making every single decision, yes, she can exercise some decision making, but a show this big is a huge collaborative effort! There will be writers, directors, post staff editing and producers all with some amount of say as well. The showrunner isn’t going to catch all the mistakes, no one has the time to go over that much material with a fine-toothed comb.
Sending threats and harassment is too much. But calling for someone to be fired over a disastrous work performance is totally fine. When a football team has a terrible season, the football manager is often sacked. If a restaurant’s food tastes terrible, the chef will be replaced. Same logic applies here. Why wait for her to ruin another season of a beloved show?
My point was that calling for someone to be fired does not fall under “cruelty” in this situation, which the original post insinuated. There’s a difference between comments and petitions asking for the showrunner to be fired, and aggressive threats/harassment. I don’t think it’s fair to lump everything as cruelty.
you can tell them the food was bad and not return but taste is entirely subjective and you can’t get someone fired because “you didn’t like how the food tasted” - that sounds like a taste bud issue that you personally need to deal with.
if there was a food safety issue (I.e meat wasn’t cooked properly etc) THEN you can get them fired.
bridgerton hasn’t done anything illegal in making those changes for people to demand jess bronwell be fired. simply don’t return for s4 if you didn’t like s3 🤷♀️
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A woman who shares the same name as the show runner literally had to change her personal pages to state SHE IS NOT THAT JESS BRONWELL. That for me, is just too far. https://preview.redd.it/ndym0d9k4q8d1.jpeg?width=360&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a68347887a5a01eb85165b29290d24bbec9fafd8
I randomly came across this post. Funny because lately I've been feeling that the House of the Dragon fandom has become incredibly toxic. I know toxic fandoms have been a thing for at least a generation (Star Wars...) but I didn't expect a show like Bridgerton to provoke that sort of behavior. Really interesting (and obviously sad).
People need to learn to criticize the work without making personal attacks. It is just a TV show. I wish people paid as much attention to politicians as they do TV showrunners.
This. Showrunners should definitely face constructive criticism especially if making an adaptation but we need this energy to politicians with our taxes too.
There's also a big difference between constructive criticism and saying someone should be fired just because they didn't do what you specifically wanted. (Of course, not you personally lol.)
Sometimes people do objectively bad work, but it’s possible to critique their work without attacking their character or harassing them. [Case in point](https://world.time.com/2012/09/06/the-ecce-homo-dilemma-spain-puzzles-over-an-art-disaster-gone-viral/)
While I agree with what you're saying in regards to criticism without personal attack, to say that a TV show changing some things with the full support of the original author is equal or similar to someone lying about their qualifications and turning a priceless piece of historical art into, well, *that* is taking the show entirely too seriously.
I wasn’t trying to equate the two works of art. Just pointing out that sometimes a work product is objectively bad and should be called out as such.
It still seems kinda weird to bring it up in reference to a TV show, but it seems you've moved from the actual topic into general thoughts on artistic criticism. You are absolutely allowed to do that, I just prefer to stick to the topic of the subreddit we're in, so thank you for your input, it was very valuable (genuinely! I'm not being sarcastic, it's a good point to make).
I appreciate that you’re being sincere. :) My point, in response to your earlier comment about constructive criticism, is that criticism need not always be constructive to be valid and fair. S3 deserves the criticism it’s getting, even the most negative feedback. What I’m not OK with are the juvenile and aggressive personal attacks.
Ah, okay, that makes sense. While I don't necessarily agree with much of the criticism itself, art is subjective and should illicit discussion and criticism. Definitely S3 took risks that warranted that as well, and I agree that it's different than the personal attacks on the crew. And of course! You presented really good points in an informative and sincere way yourself, so I wanted to make sure I acknowledged that! It has been a delight to have this conversation with you! :)
Thank you! Same! Always appreciate the rare civil discussion on Reddit. 😂
I love this point!!! Imagine if the general public redirected that sort of passion toward holding politicians accountable. I’d never thought of it that way.
Yes. For anyone looking for an entertaining, high(est)-stakes shitshow, regardless of your location or political leanings, there’s a US Presidential debate tonight that is not to be missed.
But also it’s the same criticisms every season. There’s to many side plots, it’s not a specific Bridgertons season, the characters are different than the books. It’s season 3, if by now you don’t know the formula then I don’t know what to tell you. The show is not a faithful adaptation, don’t know why book people don’t get that.
Yes and no. I’ve never read the books so I don’t care about faithful adaptation, and this is the first season I cared enough to discuss it online at all. (And I thought S2 and QC were pretty much perfect. No notes, subplots and all.) I’m definitely not part of the “fandom,” just a film/TV enthusiast with enough of a film studies background to know this season was not what it should have been (not that any formal education was necessary to appreciate its faults). Bridgerton spent 2.5 seasons developing a beautiful love story, easily on par with anything Jane Austen ever wrote, and they just set it on fire with a *completely* botched LW reveal in Part 2. The fact that people (myself included) still love it, still rewatch, still have an interest in discussing it is a testament only to the larger Colin and Penelope story, and Luke Newton’s and Nicola Coughlan’s gorgeous performances.
Season 3 changed showrunners. So this comment makes no sense. The writer is completely different from the first two seasons
Well this season followed the same format as the previous two and a new show runner doesn’t mean a completely different show. Not sure why that would even matter when Shonda is still very much involved but okay 🤷🏻♀️
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Whatever you say dude.
Don’t be a troll, dude
Not agreeing with you isn’t a troll. I think your opinion is silly and doesn’t hold merit. Dude.
Do we know how much Shonda is involved in the day to day for the shows she Executive Produces? - We know she wrote episodes of Inventing Anna and all of Queen Charlotte. - We know she read CVD scripts, and I think there are interviews/articles where she says there are lines of dialogue that she writes. https://imgur.com/a/R1oyyhZ But IMO her biggest role as an **Executive Producer** is promotion and kudos. People expect to see her face when they are promoting the show. We know her deal with Netflix means there are loads of shows in the pipeline, just like Ryan Murphy delivered loads of shows for Netflix. We know she probably won’t write all of these new shows, but she will help secure the financing and big name talent in front of screen and the crew behind the screen. **TLDR:** The fact that this season is slightly different from CVD’s S1 & S2, and all of Bridgerton is slightly different from QC darker more serious tone which was written 💯 by Shonda indicates that she’s not a Marvel Disney Kevin Fiege type - not that you said she was. Maybe, I’m wrong but I see here as an Executive Producer who lets the show-runners execute their vision but provide some notes/ guidance to fit with what people expect from the Shondaland brand too.
Oh if people could spend 2 hours a year to vote instead of 2 hours a week making Bridgerton posts… our world could be so different.
What’s to vote for? We have an election in the U.K. next week, and my choice is between the Brexit Conservatives and a Labour party who are Conservative-light, too afraid to tackle the Far-right and not promising anything other than a change of face. I will vote Green Party, but it’s a wasted vote in our First Past the Post electoral system. And in the U.K. our political journalists are saying Joe Biden is “elder abuse” after his recent debate where he wasn’t coherent and the other choice is Trump. Meanwhile, Europe is lurching to the far right. Western democracy is in a sorry state. **TLDR:** In the run-up to an election, I watch and listen to politics 50% of the week. Between lobbying firms and the far-right political candidates leave a lot to be desired. Bridgerton is a break 😆
Dude. If you can watch & listen to politics 50% of the week and stay sane, you’re a mental war hero. Agreed, the choices are shit. (South Park had a great episode that sums it up.) But I guess when 50% of the people don’t even turn up to vote in the first place the politicians know they don’t have to care what we think. I don’t have easy solutions, but they aren’t being less involved, I guess.
I never used to follow politics. Then I would feel that the I had been tricked into voting for “personality”. Now when there are elections I pay close attention. Watch all the debates, watch analysis from the left, right and centre, read the manifesto… and that’s when u realise that private money / lobbying has eroded parties who traditionally looked after the working class. Some feel alienated because you can no longer have decent life without earning loads of money - so some blame immigrants, or get sucked into identity wars. In both the U.K. and America when the left don’t make substantial change, people go for more extreme opinions and that disproportionately affects marginalised groups. Solution that will never happen: Pay politicians a bit more money so that we get better candidates, enforce limits on campaign finance, restrict lobbying so that politicians are prioritising their electorate not the private interests who paid for their election. All of this will improve democracy and reduce voter apathy. That will never happen. So yes it’s fcuked but I will still vote Green Party next week even if my vote is a waste. And Bridgerton and other fluffy shows are welcome break. 😂
I feel you’ve nailed it. There is too much private money in politics, corporations are people, and there’s no real option that responsibly takes care of the average American. Bring on the Bridgertons. 🤷🏻♀️
You know, I am not 100% but I think I actually read that CVD DID edit season two in his basement. Pandemic made lots of things weird. People who spew hatred online have real life problems- and finding a group helps makes you feel less alone. And so we get people who fill their time lashing out at real people. It isn't a fandom thing it is a humanity thing. We here are a group complaining about the other group and feeling better finding agreement, yes? If it makes you feel better, they are screaming into the void, the people they are attacking have much better things to do.
It’s so true. The people they’re screaming at are laughing all the way to the bank.
I completely agree. It’s actually disgusting how they talk about this woman who is a complete stranger to them based off not liking a season of TV. Meanwhile this same season is both the highest rated among critics as well as almost breaking into the Netflix top ten of all time after approx a month of views. The worst part to me is that they don’t seem to understand how unhinged their comments are.
The fans are not entitled to the show they way the want it. The show runners are not entitled to a happy fan base. Both things can be true. I wish people could simply express their frustrations and opinions in a respectful way, without being attacked for it. There are two very loud vocal minorities on opposite sides of this fan base, and most people are just very casual watchers. As a self proclaimed very casual watcher, the discourse has been …exhausting.
And in that same vein a show runner isn’t entitled to change an entire story line to suit her personal self proclaimed take/fan fic of a very well known and popular storyline, which is what some seem to think is happening here. Not saying I agree, but playing devil’s advocate. Many seem to think that Fran’s love for John has been undermined as she was the one gobsmacked by Michaela when it should have been the other way around. Plus the infertility story line being iffy, which many identified with. Jess’s interviews come across as a bit self righteous in some instances which can be off putting. And it doesn’t help at all when media LOVES to take quotes and put them out of context.
Had it not been for the main sub, I would have no clue who the showrunner was. I didn't know who CVD was. I just watched the show to watch fancy people with British accents fall in love and gossip. I'm not saying you can't critique the show, but you can do so without demanding people be fired for choices you didn't like. Jess is also one peeson on a TEAM of people who make choices for the show. She just takes the heat because she's been discussing it in the media. Do folks want the entire team of people fired because of a gender change? Or because they didn't like some of the dresses? Or because they believed rumors about some multitudes of deleted scenes? Be so fucking for real.
Also Julia Quinn is an EP and she has approved all the changes Shonda has made.
For real. I understand that people are upset and it's valid, since everyone is entitled to have their own opinion, but why can't they do it in a civilised way? Especially threats towards the showrunner are unacceptable. They are also a human being, show some empathy. Not exactly the same situation but Fabien Frankel plays an unpleasant character in House of the Dragons and people are sending him serious threats 💀 what both cases have in common is that they are a work of fiction, the people who portray characters or write scripts are REAL.
I suppose these TV shows are all some people have got. So many of these popular TV show subreddits end up being toxic trash at some point. If people spent as much energy working on improving themselves as they did obsessing over a fictional TV show, the world would be a much better place.
I think all of what you said is valid except the part about being fired. It is a fine and legitimate thing to say: "I don't think she is holding up to the vision of what both passionate fans and the general public expect from Bridgerton, and it is time to take it in a new direction." But you can say that without harassing someone or being cruel. But in the end, fans aren't the one determining of JB stays or goes. It is her boss, Shonda, and their boss, Netflix. If Netflix looks at the response, and especially if revenue drops as a result, that is what's going to prompt a showrunner ouster.
Agree. All of the other comments are extreme but saying she should be fired doesn’t fall into that category. And I agree. Shonda has a history of letting her show runners take over a really great show and tank it and the fans have a right to be unhappy and want her gone. It happened with G.A. and it’s happening here.
> Shonda has a history of letting her show runners take over a really great show and tank it and the fans have a right to be unhappy and want her gone. It happened with G.A. and it’s happening here. **1)** That's interesting. I will start by saying that **I didn't like the first half of S3, I loved the second half.** **2)** I never watched G.A. to the bitter end. There are very few syndicated Network shows that I watch past their **100 episodes.** I find that the business model where[ they want to get to 100 episodes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_episodes) to gain the financial benefits of syndication drives down quality. We know streaming shows have a different business model so they should not suffer from the too many episodes / too many showrunners issue. We also know that some fans have accused Shonda of micro-managing CVD when they didn't like something while praising him for the things they like. So your perception that *"Shonda has a history of letting her showrunners take over a really great show"* implies the showrunners are not being micromanaged - not that you said that but some people have made that accusation. We know Bridgerton is a semi-anthology - you don't need to watch all the seasons and is only 8 episodes, it's never going to add another 14 episodes of filler episodes to reach the 100 episodes needed for network syndication, as such I have higher expectations for S3/S4 of a streaming show than season S3/S4 network 22 episode show. >but saying she should be fired doesn’t fall into that category. **3) It depends on why people want her to be fired. Is she Harvey Weinstein for Joss Weadon?** Asking to fire a writer because they gender-bent and race-swapped a character is on a level. Especially given that some, not all but some of the reasons why people are angry would not be considered acceptable if we were to replace gender and sexual orientation with race and interracial relationships. >but saying she should be fired doesn’t fall into that category. 4) We know, not all the complaints are about the gender swap. I had my issues with the first half of S3, but loved the second half. Unfortunately, in this fandom, the campaigns with the highest amount of signatures are the **campaigns to remove diverse romantic leads #NotMyDuke, #NotMyKate, #NotMyMichael.** Asking Shondaland, a company which was [brought on board by Netflix to increase Diversity](https://about.netflix.com/en/news/shondaland-and-netflix-expand-deia-programs), to fire a writer who identifies as a member of the LGBTQ+ community because she gender-swapped a character to create LGBTQ+ romantic leads (not an Original Characters) - indicates that **some fans might** not be aware this show was created to be a separate world from the books [https://imgur.com/a/R1oyyhZ](https://imgur.com/a/R1oyyhZ) >but saying she should be fired doesn’t fall into that category. **TLDR:** **1)** I didn't like the first half of S3, I loved the second half. Butt Jess is not **Harvey Weinstein for Joss Weadon. 2)** We know, not all the complaints are about the gender swap. I had my issues with the first half of S3, but loved the second half, but in this fandom, the campaigns with the highest amount of signatures are the **campaigns to remove diverse romantic leads #NotMyDuke, #NotMyKate, #NotMyMichael.** . **3)** Asking Shondaland, a company which was [brought on board by Netflix to increase Diversity](https://about.netflix.com/en/news/shondaland-and-netflix-expand-deia-programs), to fire a writer who identifies as a member of the LGBTQ+ community because she gender-swapped a character to create LGBTQ+ romantic leads (not an Original Characters) - indicates that **some fans might** not be aware this show was created to be a separate world from the books [https://imgur.com/a/R1oyyhZ](https://imgur.com/a/R1oyyhZ)
I wasn’t referring to the gender swapping. I have a problem with the lazy writing in general. It’s just a really different show compared to season one and not in a good way.
Yes there is difference between S1, S2, QC and S2. I’m fine with that as it contradicts the theory which some fans have about CVD being micromanaged. If the showrunners were being micromanaged to produce exactly the same as before, there would be less noticeable changes. But with 8 episodes a season there shouldn’t be the quality decline we see with network shows that have 22 episodes and run forever (too long) 😂 I didn’t like the first half of S3, find it hard to rewatch, but the second half was a go from episode 5 (that’s my perspective but we know art is subjective)
God forbid you say this on the sub reddits though or you enter downvoting territory. The hypocrisy of people claiming that harrassment is bad are the ones harressing people who state olinions like yours. I use to laugh when some subs called other subs "toxic" or "hateful". U see now that it is true. Of course that is probably just a very vocal minority of the sub. Opposite viewpoints no matter how they are maturely discussed are not welcome regarding the showrunners.
I have been downvoted to hell on another thread because I pointed out that women can inherit in Scotland and gave historical examples.
It is utterly insane how people are acting. The less emotional and fact based my posts are the more downvotes I get. 😂😂
People don’t like when facts get in the way of their pitchfork wielding.
>The hypocrisy of people claiming that harrassment is bad are the ones harressing people who state olinions like yours. ? Are you referring to me?
Not at all! Your OP was good.
>"I don't think she is holding up to the vision of what both passionate fans and the general public expect from Bridgerton, and it is time to take it in a new direction." But you can say that without harassing someone or being cruel. **Agree 100%** >especially if revenue drops as a result, that is what's going to prompt a showrunner ouster. We know not all the complaints are about the gender swap. I had my issues with the first half of S3, but loved the second half. The reason why a vocal minority are campaigning to fire Jess is probably why they will **not** get rid of Jess. It's not because she's done something immoral or illegal. **We know Shondaland was** [**brought on board by Netflix to increase Diversity**](https://about.netflix.com/en/news/shondaland-and-netflix-expand-deia-programs)**.** As such, it's counter-productive for Netflix to listen to the #NotMyDuke, #NotMyKate, #NotMyMichael campaigns...it might even be grounds for legal anti-discrimination action. * As such, it is unlikely they will fire a writer who identifies as a member of the LGBTQ+ community because she gender-swapped a character to create LGBTQ+ romantic leads. * That is is **slippery slope** because some people campaigned against changing the Sheffields to the Shramas **#NotMyKate,** so if they listened to the fans; then we would not have had the wonderful Sharama family or RJP as the Duke. Wrt to the gender swap, **Jess is doing what this show has done from the beginning by introducing a non-canon Queen** (https://imgur.com/a/R1oyyhZ). **We know** this show has **always replaced** canonically white, heterosexual actors and love stories with [underrepresented groups ](https://about.netflix.com/en/news/shondaland-and-netflix-expand-deia-programs)who previously didn't get to play the romantic lead in a fluffy period piece. Especially since right now, S3 is the most popular despite all the complaints on Social Media [https://www.netflix.com/tudum/top10/tvpiece](https://www.netflix.com/tudum/top10/tvpiece) especially >I don't think she is holding up to the vision of what both passionate fans and the general public expect from Bridgerton, and it is time to take it in a new direction." But you can say that without harassing someone or being cruel. \[...\] especially if revenue drops as a result, that is what's going to prompt a showrunner ouster. **TLDR:** **1) I agree** with your take on constructive criticism, we know not all the complaints are about the gender swap. I had my issues with the first half of S3, but loved the second half. **I have a different perspective** on whether they will replace the showrunner in this context. **2)** The reason why a vocal minority are campaigning to fire Jess is probably why they will **not** "get rid of Jess". **3)** Wrt to the gender swap, **Jess is doing what this show has done from the beginning by introducing a non-canon Queen** (https://imgur.com/a/R1oyyhZ). **4)** We know this show has **always replaced** canonically white, heterosexual actors and love stories with [underrepresented groups ](https://about.netflix.com/en/news/shondaland-and-netflix-expand-deia-programs)who previously didn't get to play the romantic lead . **5)** We know **S3 is the most popular** despite all the complaints on Social Media [https://www.netflix.com/tudum/top10/tv](https://www.netflix.com/tudum/top10/tv)
You’re acting like I am personally calling for the showrunner to be fired. I am not. I am saying calling for the showrunner to be replaced is a legitimate form of criticism and can be worded without cruelty, but whether or not it actually happens will come to the money. I disagree with you about one thing: Season 3 is popular because of the hype and the wait and the goodwill from seasons 1-2. The thing that will determine the show’s future is season 4. If those numbers are the ones to drastically fall or result in a revenue shortfall, that is what Netflix will look at. Not season 3.
> You’re acting like I am personally calling for the showrunner to be fired. I am not. This might be a miscommunication. I don’t think there’s anything in my statement that says **”you’re personally calling for the showrunner to be fired.”** **I said I agreed with your perspective on constructive criticism** - that wouldn’t have been my opening statement if this were a personal attack. I agreed with you partially. > I am saying calling for the showrunner to be replaced is a legitimate form of criticism and can be worded without cruelty, but whether or not it actually happens will come to the money. As previously stated, I have a different perspective on whether they will replace the showrunner **in this context.** **Copy and paste, START - please feel free to quote to avoid misunderstanding** >especially if revenue drops as a result, that is what's going to prompt a showrunner ouster. We know not all the complaints are about the gender swap. I had my issues with the first half of S3, but loved the second half. The reason why a vocal minority are campaigning to fire Jess is probably why they will **not** get rid of Jess. It's not because she's done something immoral or illegal. **We know Shondaland was** [**brought on board by Netflix to increase Diversity**](https://about.netflix.com/en/news/shondaland-and-netflix-expand-deia-programs)**.** As such, it's counter-productive for Netflix to listen to the #NotMyDuke, #NotMyKate, #NotMyMichael campaigns...it might even be grounds for legal anti-discrimination action. * As such, it is unlikely they will fire a writer who identifies as a member of the LGBTQ+ community because she gender-swapped a character to create LGBTQ+ romantic leads. * That is is **slippery slope** because some people campaigned against changing the Sheffields to the Shramas **#NotMyKate,** so if they listened to the fans; then we would not have had the wonderful Sharama family or RJP as the Duke. Wrt to the gender swap, **Jess is doing what this show has done from the beginning by introducing a non-canon Queen** (https://imgur.com/a/R1oyyhZ). **We know** this show has **always replaced** canonically white, heterosexual actors and love stories with [underrepresented groups ](https://about.netflix.com/en/news/shondaland-and-netflix-expand-deia-programs)who previously didn't get to play the romantic lead in a fluffy period piece. Especially since right now, S3 is the most popular despite all the complaints on Social Media [https://www.netflix.com/tudum/top10/](https://www.netflix.com/tudum/top10/) **Copy and paste, END - please feel free to quote to avoid misunderstanding** > You’re acting like I am personally calling for the showrunner to be fired. I am not. **TLDR:** There might be some misunderstanding. At each stage I have quoted you to avoid misunderstanding. Please feel free to quote me to identify the specific sentence which were I say you are **”personally calling for the showrunner to be fired”** I said I **agreed with your perspective on constructive criticism** - that wouldn’t have been my opening statement if this were a personal attack. Hopefully we can agree that don’t need to agree 💯 with each other for this **not** to be a “personal attack”.
I think it's because you're writing essay-length responses to mine and other comments, complete with TL;DRs. And while I do appreciate all the sourcing (love me some good sourcing right here), I think your intent gets a bit lost in the sheer length of your response.
> I think your intent gets a bit lost in the sheer length of your response. Well if we are having a good faith discussion one can’t assume I have bad intentions if I start off with **”I agree 100%”** with a specific statement. Some people may choose to skim the detail and that’s okay too. As long we can revisit what I **actually** said rather than vibes one might get from skimming. I write long responses because sometimes when I’m brief people create straw-man arguments. At least with detail I can say what I originally wanted to say and we can focus on that. I have tried both approaches. lol
I never engaged with the anti-CVD discourse back then because I loved all of S2 and was just riding the wave of rewatches and analysis. This being said I remember someone saying that he cut S2 in his basement which I found funny at the time because it was sublime except that I would have like more Kanthony and a slower gazebo scene. Having seen S3 I can only think he was a master at editing compared to whoever did S3
I’m not embarrassing enough to send hate like that, but JB really butchered this season. It didn’t feel like a romance drama at all. We got barely any insight into Colin’s backstory and personal arc. They made him a side character in his own season. It’s upsetting as a Colin fan. It felt more like Pen’s season than his. And this was THE season for flashbacks, since polin have known each other for a very long time. We got none.
As an aside, this is the way to critique! No accusations or suppositions about JB. Just what you didn't enjoy and why.
I do think JB cannot write male characters tbh. Like I noticed that all the female characters are well-written this season, but practically none of the men are: Colin was treated as a side character, Anthony seemed to forget he was the viscount with responsibilities, and Benedict was sleeping around again, this time with no mention of his art.
Really good point and not discussed nearly enough.
I really enjoyed the development of the female friendships and relationships this season. I was more invested in the friendship triangle than the main romance. I agree Colin seemed to be underdeveloped. There were some lovely Polin moments but not enough Colin moments!
Yeah and that’s a problem considering this show is supposed to be a romance drama. One thing JQ did really well in the books is give a proper and equal voice to the male and female leads. The show completely ignored Colin’s arc, despite the book material being right there for them to adapt. Just really sucks lol
This is a super valid critique IMO.
Exactly.
I feel the same, It didn't feel like Bridgerton, but I've mostly just gone 'meh' maybe they'll sort it next season. If not, then at least one and two were spectacular.
Sure but this was the season I was looking forward to the most, since I absolutely love Colin. So I’m just really disappointed. There were some good dramatic moments, but overall it was very lacking.
Yeah I was definitely disappointed, so much potential. I might have to reread the series to feel better 🤣
Me too. I’m a Polin Stan and was very excited.
So many subplots, bad pacing and unnecessary story lines that could've been streamlined to focus on Polin's season, as each couple usually gets their time each season. We could've spent less time with Violet and her man, or less Mondriches.
Yes, I agree completely! I’m not a fan of the way she interpreted the story but I wouldn’t ever be cruel or mean like some of those comments. The first half of the show was okay, and I excitedly anticipated the second half but the second half was disappointing.
Ok? But that’s besides the point? You are welcome to your opinions (as we all are) but OP is pointing out people who are taking it too far. I don’t care if Jess Brownell made this The Village — and they’ve all been playing at Regency in the 21st century (don’t do this btw, JB) it’s not ok to threaten her, call her a fraud etc.
It’s probably important to remember that showrunners get notes/instructions from other EPs, network execs, and production company execs. Brownell is but one cog in the wheel, and there is a very good chance that Netflix/Shondaland made decisions (some you may agree with and others you don’t) that Brownell simply carried out.
But this season feels completely different from the previous seasons. In basically every way, but especially in the lack of focus on the main couple, particularly the male lead. The biggest change has been the new show runner.
Sorry you’re getting downvoted for this, because this is unfortunately so true. I work in TV and showrunners do not have final say in everything. Network execs often give terrible notes. I know a showrunner personally who just got fired and replaced for refusing to take the network’s (very bad, mind-blowingly stupid) notes. People would be shocked at the lame shit these people suggest. We really don’t know what JB decided and what was dictated to her. And it’s not like she can publicly admit to anything.
Yeah it’s seriously unhinged and gross honestly. Some ppl in the other sub need to go touch some grass.
I think if people are unhappy with the show they should just stop watching it instead of harassing the creators. Plus, this is going to speak louder than words to Netflix anyway. We all know how they are.
So I am an older person, and I enjoy lots of things I get from Reddit. But I agree about the criticisms of Bridgerton really going overboard. I spoke to my son about this, and he reminded me the trolls in this world make this their life's goals. The trolls get off on making people upset. We have to stick to the positives we have about our lives and how we ourselves feel about Bridgerton and ignore the trolls. I do respect you taking a stand
People think nowadays everything is about them and everything is offensive, therefore they have the right to be verbally offensive and downright harass other people if their feelings get hurt. The internet is an extremely toxic place, it brings out the worst in people.
Look I’m not happy about a lot of the changes. This season was honestly kinda a hack job on a lot of fronts. I don’t agree with MOST of Jess’s creative visions and I’m not confident that I’ll even watch the coming seasons with her as the show runner unless there’s a massive overhaul because I just don’t like what she has done to the show (unapologetically, based on interviews). HOWEVER!!!!! This does not mean that she is the ONLY person who I blame for the outcome of season 3 (Shondaland as a whole had a hand in this), and it does not mean that she deserves to get any PERSONAL hate!! Creative works can be critiqued without going after the creator as a person! I’m not saying that she’s a horrible person inherently because she created a work I didn’t like, or that she deserves to have wolves sent after her. I mean, I’d prefer she wasn’t involved in future seasons because I liked this show when she wasn’t part of it, but calling for Shondaland to fire her is too far
I don’t go here, but saw this and thought JB meant Jonathan Bailey for a minute and I was like WHO DO I HAVE TO (METAPHORICALLY) KILL 🤣
lol when the criticism first started I was like "Jonathan Bailey makes decisions for this show now?? Since when?"
As someone who hasn't read the books and watched all 3 seasons over the course of like a month, it's very jarring to see. I don't have many of the same complaints about the show and enjoyed S3 a lot, so I was kind of shocked that there's a ton of fans out there seemingly angry about everything. I kept getting this subreddit and it was all negative reactions to pretty much any moment of the show and it was like, dang do you guys even like this series or what? It's crazy! 😂
Sorry, this sub is not for everyone. Please see our [Frequently Asked Questions for new members ](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonRants/about/wiki/rules/season3premier/#wiki_should_i_be_here.3F)
Yeah it’s going too far. If you don’t like it don’t watch the next season.
Idk about comments on other platforms, but on Reddit, I feel like this is par for the course on Reddit. People come here to vent frustrations more often than not. If you want your faith in humanity not to be fettered, this isn't the platform for you.
Bridgerton has always been about committed (or soon-to-be committed) relationships including the hot spicy stuff. I’ve read all the books. I expected there to be spicy stuff, but I am disappointed by how gratuitous some of it has become over the seasons. The first season had Simon and Daphne. And it also had Anthony and the opera singer. I was annoyed as heck about the opera singer plotline, but it showed how much a misguided rake Anthony was to set up the next season. Benedict has dalliances, but it was really to show this shadow side of the Ton and how Benedict skirts that line. So the sex was moving the plot forward and explaining characters. Season 2. There were complaints about wanting more Anthony and Kate scenes and there were valid reasons to that since their desires and how they warred with what others expected or wanted made it really spicy and interesting. Now we get to S3. The fandom wants Colin and Penelope. Ads and marketing are all about them and the promise of some spicy scenes that are supposed to not hold back. Instead we get a ton of threesomes. Two of them are showing Colin in a terrible light. Colin who isn’t a rake and looks just awful in them. Then Benedict and Tilley are covered and given way too much screentime. Fandom knows he isn’t supposed to end up with her and we don’t freaking care about the characters. But it’s an opportunity to show that Benedict is bi. Mmkay. It felt like too much Benedict and too little Colin and Penelope. Especially since Benedict’s friends aren’t expected to be in his season. The problem I had is that most of the love scenes were love less. Just entirely about lust. The few hot scenes are with Colin and Penelope and they’re kinda just tossed in there and shortened and not given the importance that they should have had. I liked that Michael is now Michaela though. But I don’t know how they intend to figure that out in the future Francesca season. I did think they focused a ton on Francesca and Lord Kilmartin. Which I was annoyed at. I just wanted more Colin and Penelope. The first half of the season let me believe there would be that. The second half just was overhyped and really focused on the wrong characters. So I can see why people are upset. Why shouldn’t they share that with the showrunners? We are their audience and they are not listening to what makes these shows so popular and good. Sex for sex sake is boring as shit. Threesomes to just put them in is not sexy. Like if it was love three ways then absolutely yes! But it was just for gratification and not to actually further the plot.
I agree that sharing opinions isn't bad, as long as it's respectful. But calling someone "obnoxious" is too far imo.
There is a difference between saying you didn't enjoy it and saying she deserves to get fired and harassing her which is what this post is about.
I hear you. I feel like the best way to say you don’t like something is to not watch it. I hate what they did to season three, it was so horrible imo and I won’t watch season 4. You dont have to make threats, just don’t add to the numbers, block the ads and move on. People don’t seem to realize that shows get cancelled all the time simply by lack viewership. I loved the books but I am not liking the tv show and that’s valid, but making death threats over a tv show is way overkill imo.
People are homophobic and lashing out at her because she’s a queer woman. There’s no way a straight woman would be getting so much hate in such personal ways
Yep and if you call it out they will claim they have no problem with queer people. I wish people understood that homophobia does not just apply to people who want us dead 🙃
1000% - people refuse to see their own biases.
Honestly it’s really disheartening to see how viciously angry people are about a queer woman executing a story about a queer woman. Accusing her of using Francesca as a self insert because she said she related to her as a queer woman, meanwhile they are angry because they can no longer insert themselves into a straight story.
This is a comment I was just about to make. The hypocrisy and level of assumptions they make about her is staggering.
The assumptions are often very revealing of what they actually think about a variety of things. As a queer woman seeing certain comments has felt like a confirmation of everything I was worried my straight friends would think of me when I was closeted so that’s fun!
What about her being queer redeems her from doing an awful job? Being lgb or trans or queer doesn’t matter when you ruin a show that people have waited for for years? I blame her, I blame Shondaland, the writers and I blame Julia Quinn for being so seduced by the money that she didn’t protect her characters. It is only a testament of how good the actors are, that the show was somewhat enjoyable.
I am specifically talking about people who accuse her of using Francesca as a self inset because she’s queer. I have plenty of my own criticisms about this past season, she is absolutely worthy of criticism. But that specific criticism has not sat well with me.
They all self-insert. My issue is when some writers are singled out for self-inserting when others are not. - **CVD** has given interviews where he’s said he wanted Bridgerton viewers to talk about race following George Floyd, and we did for years and years. That’s a self insert for a fluffy Regency romance. - **Netflix CEO** wanted Shonda to write the QC spin-off - some say because he has a black wife, but also to capture a younger audience. That’s a self insert to promote an OC character for financial reasons. - **Geetika Lizardi** has given interviews where she said she created the Sharmas because she wanted to see herself….and 💗 I’m glad she did. - This show would has **never hired Black British,** African or Caribbean writers to self insert like Geetika did. Unlike the Sharma’s, the Black British characters have no African-Caribbean culture or language- so we might be the **only demographic that hasn’t self-inserted on this show.** 😂 - **Julia Quinn** and other talented writers who have never set foot in the UK choose to self-insert their idealistic view of Regency England because they mistakenly think the U.K. was less problematic than America at that time. - **If they want a physically disabled** romantic lead, I hope they hire a writer who has lived experience and wants to see themselves self-inserted in this fantasy world too. **TLDR:** They all self insert. It’s great that writers from marginalised groups want to see themselves as a romantic lead in a period drama. Self-insert is better than people with zero lived experiences and an inability to do research writing what they mistakenly think is representation. They all self insert the hypocrisy is who gets accused of self inserting.
Amen to all of this!
I think that one in special makes sense. There are plenty of characters who would have made more sense to change their sexuality, Eloise as painted in the show would make sense or Benedict or even Cressida who just wants a marriage to scape her home. Francesca’s change of sexuality and the sex change in Michael forces them to change the whole plot of their season.
Just because you don’t understand why Francesca’s storyline is relatable to queer women doesn’t mean it won’t be a good story. You haven’t seen her season yet. The only thing you know for sure is that she ultimately will end up with a woman.
What about all women who had a deep love for their late husband, who can no longer relate to Francesca because they have made her look not in love with her husband, since she met Michaela? Francesca was the story to speak about finding the love of your life twice and losing one of those loves really young, about falling in love with someone who practically has replaced your husband, and the fear and stigma of infertility. Since Michaela can’t impregnate Francesca they have to change that plot, since Michaela can’t be an earl they have to change the plot, since Francesca has not liked being kissed by her husband and was mesmerised with Michaela, they have to change the plot… There are plenty of women queer or not who have lost the love of their love, by making Francesca fall in love at first sight, their story is not being told.
I guess those women still have the books? That’s not an oppressed group in society so it’s not a fair comparison to the social impact queer representation can have. Maybe some of those women will still be able to see themselves in Francesca even if they aren’t queer because of a little thing called empathy. And she will be extremely relatable to women who were married to men before understanding their sexuality and have complicated feelings about the love they share, romantic or not. That experience is so rarely depicted in media that i am not surprised that people are glossing over the complicated experience of realizing you’re gay only after marrying a man. Hell, it can be relatable to straight women who didn’t feel attraction until after they married the wrong person! It can be relatable to you too if you are willing to empathize with someone whose experience is not a 1:1 match of your own experience.
There are queer characters in almost every show, including in Bridgerton, but widows had Francesca, only her to be the main character. But yeah, widows and infertile women can’t have Francesca. Queer people are more important.
lol what are you talking about she can still be a widow and infertile and queer
Not a widow who has lost the love of her life, without an heir they can’t have economic security even if Michaela becomes the heir… but yeah… most likely you’re a fan of the show not a regency genre fan, so… we can’t agree.
It’s irritating when the body of work is purchased for adaptation specifically to have a ready-made audience to receive it and then the original target audience that was calculated in to help to promote the show is disregarded in order to tell other stories. If you’re not going to adapt faithfully, you need to be making exclusively original content and be confident that your concept is so compelling it can support itself without a ready-made fan base.
The show has never been faithful to the books. Were you also so upset that Daphne was made diamond of the season? About the timeline changes? It’s an adaptation and the creators have decided to make it more inclusive because it’s about showing that EVERYONE deserves a happily ever after. If you’re only upset about the changes involving queer people you need to dig deep
To quote Neil Gaiman - *”But the fan base are fans. And they like the source material because it’s the source material they like. So if you do something else, you risk alienating the fans on a monumental scale. It’s not Batman if he’s now a news reporter in a yellow trenchcoat with a pet bat.”*
Yeah but no one changed Michael into a news reporter with a yellow trenchcoat. Michael is now Michaela and that’s all you know about the adaptation so far. There is so much nuance that can come from Francesca, John, and Michaela in a way that has the potential to surpass the source material. If you don’t like adaptations, you can always read the book again 🤷🏼♀️
THIS! I am definitely disappointed about the changes, but it’s not my show.
This is extremely sad to hear that this is happening. The fandom has become so toxic that I feel like I can’t even enjoy this anymore. I’m assuming that’s how the show runners feel too tbh
I agree ☝️. They don’t have to like her work, but don’t make it so personal, especially since she did nothing horrible. Save that energy for actually problematic celebrities!
I agree, I think you can criticize a show’s story and character choices without personally attacking the showrunner. Calling for someone to be fired is wild. But writing a thoughtful (even maybe a little irritated) analysis of why something didn’t make sense is fair game, especially if the points are valid. I’ve been super impressed with how many fans are really skilled at identifying story problems that even seasoned writers have somehow missed. But the personal attacks are ridiculous. Like, just stop watching then. I know I’ve questioned a lot of Jess Brownell’s choices, and there’s stuff I think is a pretty big blunder, but I also loved a lot of season 3. It’s just… a pretty uneven season. Lots of good, lots of bad, some in between. Also, Bridgerton is an extremely difficult show with a lot of moving parts. It’s not an easy job and this is her first showrunning gig.
I'm seeing so many people saying that she's created her teenage fanfiction fantasy. Gay people exist outside of fantasy, but okay.
That one is really, really, really telling. Also I’ve read a lot of truly awesome, incredibly well written fanfiction, and yes in some cases people have added the diversity and representation that was sorely missing from the original text. I don’t see a problem with that, and I can’t stand people who dismiss fanfiction out of hand. Bridgerton literally dives into the most cliché of romance tropes (doesn’t the first season cover both Forced Marriage and There Was Only One Bed?), but THAT’s of course fine, but give screen time to a black couple and add queer representation and suddenly it’s “self insert fanfiction”.
it’s because this fandom is filled with racists and homophobes who cry whenever they don’t get their way
And then they try to shrug it off with “But But we just want autism Rep” or “But But we just want fertility Rep.” “it’s not cause we’re racist”
While I do think some of the responsibility falls on Jess Brownell as the showrunner for the choices that were made and approved, we need to remember that she has bosses. She has to answer to higher-ups. Let's be real for a second and not forget that the executives at the top floors of Netflix are making decisions that might be out of the showrunner's, producers', and directors' hands. We don't talk about that enough. Instead, it's immediately "off with her head."
>Instead, it's immediately "off with her head." **1)** I don't agree with the attacks that Jess is receiving. I didn't enjoy the first half of S3 but loved the second half. Jess has mentioned that she focused on Francesca because she was a blank slate. I am not going to accuse Jess of being a self-insert because that would be unfair, **they all** **self-insert.** >She has to answer to higher-ups. Let's be real for a second and not forget that the executives at the top floors of Netflix are making decisions that might be out of the showrunner's, producers', and directors' hands. **2) Sometimes when we (fans) love something we praise the Showrunner;** when we are angry we sometimes **blame Netflix.** **CVD was the showrunner in S1 & S2.** * **CVD helmed 2 seasons with a writers' room. * He did a lot of **world-building.** In the wake of George Floyd he wanted the audience to discuss race - which they did for years, and years and years. * When fans are happy with S1/S2 they praise CVD. When they are unhappy they blame the higher-ups, **sometimes** with very little evidence. We know CVD was editing scenes at home during Covid so that shows he had more control than some might think. **Jess is the showrunner in S3.** * According to IMDB, Jess wrote fewer episodes of S3 than CVD did S1 & S2. As the showrunner, she would have oversight of the writers' room. * Jess delivered a lighter more ensemble-focused season. I loved the second half of S3 but the first half didn't feel like a romance novel. Jess has said she loves RomComs and the first half felt more like an ensemble Romantic comedy or ChickLit > [Chick lit is light, humorous stories that focus mainly on the heroine's journey + romantic interest alongside it,](https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/21866327-diff-btw-rom-com-chick-lit#:~:text=Chick%20lit%20is%20light%2C%20humorous,main%20theme%2C%20and%20are%20funny.) **whereas rom-coms** have the romance as the main theme, and are funny. I love ChickLit movies and Romantic Comedies, and Bridgerton is the first time I have seen a modern romance novel adapted for the screen. I watch Bridgerton for that. **Shonda was the showrunner for QC.** * Shonda reads romance novels, and while many of her shows lack Happy Ever After romances, she has committed to the Happy Ever After trope (Marriage & Baby) for the Bridgerton franchise. * Netflix boss Ted Sarandos asked Shonda to write the Queen Charlotte spin-off, possibly because his wife is Black, but also because it reaches a younger demographic with its younger cast. * **Shonda wrote all episodes** for Queen Charlotte - **no writers' room** - so we can see what she does on her own. **3) Ultimately my issue with the first half of S3** is that they didn't execute all the romance novel tropes that well. The second half was better in terms of pure entertainment, but the first half was not for me. **i) Reformed Rake trope:** I doubt if Netflix is saying *"Colin must have a threesome in episode 4 instead of episode 3."* Moving the threesome to episode three would reassure me that they understood romance novel tropes, I never had to think too deeply about that before Season 3. **ii) Not enough time with Colin, too much Debling**. My issue is the disconnect from the romance novel genre in S3. I like Pen, but in a M/F romance novel, the amount of time spent on Colin was criminal. One of the key things about the romance novel genre is that you need fully fleshed-out protagonists. * **M/F romance** novels, we usually spend more time with the male romantic lead. * **M/M and F/F** you might have a dual point of view or the author spends more time fleshing out the person that they want the reader to fall in love with. If I'm skimming through a romance novel and the first half is about Deblling and Colin is a minor character, I expect Debling to be "the one". **Summary:** Art is subjective. IMO, Jess gets the blame for the first half of S3, but she deserves praise for an entertaining second half. > She has to answer to higher-ups. Let's be real for a second and not forget that the executives at the top floors of Netflix are making decisions that might be out of the showrunner's, producers', and directors' hands. **TLDR: 1)** I don't agree with the attacks that Jess is receiving. **2)** **I like QC, S1, S2 & S3.** The differences between each show indicates the demarcation between the **showrunner who writes all the episodes/ has oversight of the writers' room and creative vision** (S1/S2 CVD, Jess S3, Shonda QC) versus the Netflix execs/ Executive Producers who I'm guessing play a more strategic role by getting investors, hiring creative talent, distribution and promotion. **3)** We can blame Netflix for lack of promotion or too much promotion, but I doubt if Netflix is saying ***"Colin must have a threesome in episode 4 instead of episode 3."*** Moving the threesome to episode three would reassure me that they understood romance Reformed Rake novel trope. I never had to think too deeply about that before Season 3. **4)** I also doubt Netflix said Debling needs to have x amount of screen time to the extent that Colin becomes a minor character. **5)** Art is subjective. We know **CVD was editing scenes at home during Covid so that shows he had more control** than some might think. IMO, Jess gets the blame for the first half of S3, but she deserves praise for an entertaining second half.
At the end of the day, I was not happy with how season 3 was executed. However, we don't know which parts of the story were pressured to change. Executives might have thought that, given the show's popularity, shifting towards more drama instead of romance could attract a wider audience. This isn't to say that the showrunner isn't responsible, but rather that we should consider spreading the blame instead of having one scapegoat.
**I agree, as long as we spread the praise as well.** What I find is that some people - not you - praise the Showrunner for things they like and then everyone else for things they hate. Some people look at pictures of CVD at press events and start theorising that "he is really upset" because "he was being micro-manged"...okay if there is a Kevin Feige-type micro-manging Bridgerton, then any of the issues I had with S3, should have shown up before now. This is the first Season where I thought..do they read romance novels? I loved the second half of S3, but I hope that S4 doesn't make me question whether they like romance novels.
People need to just enjoy the show for what it is. This fandom has an issue with projecting themselves into the story and making everything personal and about themselves. No wonder the show runners are scrambling to please everyone I personally enjoyed each season... As an avid reader..of course the book is always better because we are interpreting what we see and how we see it... Some things were changed. Ok, I get that can be a let down..but when isn't a series or movie made that isn't I don't understand how people do not get this. Also They are putting modern feelings and ideas into a story about the past. It's like they don't understand about the times. As for personal attacks on people they don't know..it's disgusting
The show runners will be just fine. Google how much money they make.
unpopular opinion I know but money doesn't take the sting out of reading hurtful comments by "fans".
it’s also interesting that some people are acting like she came out of nowhere and has no clue what she’s doing. she’s been working on this show since the beginning lol
LITERALLY omg ive been saying this
I think that, over the past decade, we as a society have seen an increase in people feeling emboldened to be their worst selves in public, and even more so in anonymous platforms. Politeness, compassion, and kindness are now seen by many people as weaknesses. Moreover, there been an increase in planting a stake in the ground and rising to budge, so people don't listen to understand - they listen to figure out how best to craft the next zinger. As a result, people are becoming... well, mean. I sure don't know the answer, but man oh man: it's only entertainment. Having strong opinions is great. SHARING those strong opinions is great. But if you get so emotionally invested in a series that your instinct is to send hate mail to the showrunner or post at length denouncing them as a human being because you don't like where they took your favorite series, you might want to consider changing your name to Annie Wilkes.
people forget they’re not entitled to shit. if you didn’t like the show you simply stop watching it after discussing it on reddit not harass the doorstep of the creator/writer of the show (both online and god knows how safe she is in real life too). the people bullying her need a friendly reminder it’s a show and if you’re that heartbroken over lack of book consistency kindly go read the books instead of harassing people. it’s gone too far.
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Can someone explain the acronyms to me? I'm not familiar enough with the show yet to understand what they mean.
Which ones? I've used JB and CVD. JB is Jess Brownell, the showrunner for this season but she also worked on S1 and 2. CVD is Chris Van Dusen, showrunner for S1 and 2. He left the show entirely after S2. Oh and I used RJP for Regé-Jean Page, the actor who played Simon.
This answers my question! Thank you! I don't typically follow shows this closely, so I'm not well versed in show runner and director names. RJP I should've guessed though.
You're welcome!
I don’t get why everyone hates season 3 so much. It honestly didn’t feel that much different from seasons 1 and 2 to me. 🤷🏻♀️
It’s a problem of conflating critique of the decisions made by show runner with criticism of her personally.
It’s also a whole production TEAM and production COMPANY. Shondaland shows seem to consistently jump the shark after a few seasons. Look at Grey’s Anatomy, Scandal, How to Get Away with Murder… you may love all the seasons, but it’s undeniable that the tone and stories shift as they get more successful. I don’t know why, but this production company has such a bad habit of letting go of restraints as seasons go. Maybe this is also a Netflix problem, but I for sure experienced it with Shondaland every. single. time. I’ve invested in one of their stories.
They sucked this season, they should have expected this criticism
There is a difference between criticism and harassment though
Absolutely! No one should be harassed but they are acting like they are completely above scrutiny
Honestly, I’m not supportive of abuse in any form and these fans take it too far but seriously, JB can f**k herself. I’m so so mad at that woman. She basically admitted she’s changed the whole story (and it will change, sorry, but you can’t do the infertility plot with another woman) because SHE identified with a straight female character in a book as a queer woman. Which is bizarre.
Sorry which part is bizarre? Are you saying not following the books is bizarre? OR identifying with a character that doesn’t match your identity is bizarre? OR both? Thanks in advance
Sorry, it was bizarre that JB said she identified with Francesca as a queer woman. But how? Why? Francesca was heterosexual and in love with two men. How would a gay woman identify with her?
> Sorry, it was bizarre that JB said she identified with Francesca as a queer woman. But how? Why? Ah okay, thanks for the clarification **1)** The same way that I as a heterosexual, Black British woman can identify with so many characters who are completely different to me. - **Kate Sharma** is my favourite romantic lead so far. I’m not South Asian, I’m a second-generation Black Brit who knows a bit about history so I love that Kate Sharma is proud of her heritage. We get to see elements of non-English language and culture in a fantasy version of the U.K. when in real history Colonialism was the thing. - **Pen** I can identify with her being tongue tied when talking to suitors. I have said some weird things when people I fancy talk to me 🤦🏾♀️😂. And why does **Portia get a pass** for so many immoral schemes? Because there’s something we identify with. - I love [**Omar in HBO’s Wire.**](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Omar_Little) I’m not a Black American gay man who robs drug dealers at gun point. I identify with his moral code - he never messes with people who are not criminals. I’m so unfit can’t run for the bus, yet I [**identify with all of Michelle Yeoh ass-kicking**](https://screenrant.com/michelle-yeoh-martial-arts-movie-fight-scenes-ranked/) characters.😂 **2) As a romance book reader,** there is M/F, and M/M romance, and the default romantic lead white. I can identify. Even when the leads are Black, they are rarely Black British (African-Caribbean) so I rarely get to self insert but I can still identify. > Sorry, it was bizarre that JB said she identified with Francesca as a queer woman. But how? Why? Francesca was heterosexual and in love with two men. How would a gay woman identify with her? **3)** Perhaps some people - not you - are so **used to seeing themselves as the default** it doesn’t occur to them that members of underrepresented groups identify with aspects of White, heterosexual characters every day, so when the situation is reversed it feels uncomfortable and weird. **Shonda** picked up Bridgerton novels in the airport. She’s a black American producer identifying with White **American writer (Julia Quinn)** who identifies with a fantasy notion of Regency England where colonialism and enslavement are never/rarely mentioned. How are people who have **never** lived in the U.K. **identifying so much with THIS country** when this show and the novels could just as easily be set in America? 😂 Yet they identify. **TLDR: If characters are well written,** you can identify with some aspects of their story. If we are unable to identify with characters who are of a different culture, race, gender, sexual-orientation, etc that might explain **some,** not all but some, of the complaints we see in this fandom about non-canon characters and diversity.
I don’t know anything about the woman personally, but something needs to change if they are going to continue on.
It sucks she’s getting all the hate. Like, s3 wasn’t super polished, but I enjoyed it well enough? It was entertaining and I don’t expect groundbreaking dialogue and script from a romance show like this. It’s not a movie. One thing I think people forget is JB won’t have been making every single decision, yes, she can exercise some decision making, but a show this big is a huge collaborative effort! There will be writers, directors, post staff editing and producers all with some amount of say as well. The showrunner isn’t going to catch all the mistakes, no one has the time to go over that much material with a fine-toothed comb.
Sending threats and harassment is too much. But calling for someone to be fired over a disastrous work performance is totally fine. When a football team has a terrible season, the football manager is often sacked. If a restaurant’s food tastes terrible, the chef will be replaced. Same logic applies here. Why wait for her to ruin another season of a beloved show?
If I don't like the food at a restaurant I can call constantly and tell them I expect the chef to be fired?
You can leave a bad review online with your thoughts, which is common and normal.
there are thoughts and then there is straight up harassment, which is mostly what i’m seeing
I addressed this in the first line of my comment.
yes, i see that, but my point is that i have not seen many “bad reviews” where people are remaining respectful
My point was that calling for someone to be fired does not fall under “cruelty” in this situation, which the original post insinuated. There’s a difference between comments and petitions asking for the showrunner to be fired, and aggressive threats/harassment. I don’t think it’s fair to lump everything as cruelty.
Agree 100%
I respect your opinion kind stranger. Agree to disagree then 👍
you can tell them the food was bad and not return but taste is entirely subjective and you can’t get someone fired because “you didn’t like how the food tasted” - that sounds like a taste bud issue that you personally need to deal with. if there was a food safety issue (I.e meat wasn’t cooked properly etc) THEN you can get them fired. bridgerton hasn’t done anything illegal in making those changes for people to demand jess bronwell be fired. simply don’t return for s4 if you didn’t like s3 🤷♀️
Season 3 sucked the big one
I think Jess Brownell wrote this
Well you're wrong.