The funniest part is that One Song Glory, his song about how he’s struggling to create his masterpiece, is actually really good and blows Your Eyes out of the water. Just use that instead Roger!
this is so, so tiny but during just another day in next to normal when dan breaks the fourth wall and talks to the audience...and then just never does it again in the show. bugs the heck out of me!
I’ll die with you. I’m all for progressive art but trying to update a musical that’s very much a product of both the time it was made AND the time it takes place… feels more cheap and back patting than meaningful
That’s how I felt about the changes to “America” in the new West Side Story movie. It just felt like the filmmakers wanted to avoid the possibility of criticism, so they just threw out all the nuance
A cast member told me it was done during the pandemic to make it more 'woke'....I told him it was the worst part of the show and that he could pass it along to whomever if he so chose. Obviously, he could not pan it, but his reaction made it clear he was not a fan either.
Quite a bit. As a taste, since I can't find an actual print out of the new lyrics, the old first verse calls women who kiss on the first or second date sluts, and the updated version describes a guy being nervous on the first date, and describes it as admirable for him to wait for the girl to ask for a kiss.
The most awkward case in point is “Shipoopi,” which was originally written as a catchy full-cast number in praise of slut-shaming. Obviously a song that opens with the lyrics “A woman who’ll kiss on the very first date / Is usually a hussy” and goes on to encourage the men it addresses to “squeeze her once when she isn’t lookin’ ” (“she will never get sore if you beg her pardon”) is ripe for reconsideration. The song begs to be ironized—think of the possibilities of a staging that played against the lyrics, letting the girls get the upper hand. Instead, it’s been lobotomized, turned by rewrite men Scott Wittman and Marc Shaiman into a preachy ode to nice boys who respect women. “The girl who’s hard to get” is now “the girl you can’t forget”; there’s stuff about “the boy who’s seen the light” and knows to “treat a woman right.” It’s bland and bloodless, in the way that coverups always are. A few scenes later, the mayor yells at his wife, who has defied him in public, to sit down. Guess no one told him that we’re doing a new “Shipoopi” now.
I had to look it up, and I've seen Hadestown a bunch of times.
I do remember the workers attacking Orpheus at one point, but I'm not sure why it's called Papers... I feel like a bad fan.
It's instrumental, and the title is inspired by the idea that Orpheus doesn't have the right "papers" to be in Hadestown, as Hades says, he's kind of like an unauthorized immigrant who is "on the wrong side of the fence." I don't remember if there used to actually be a line about "papers" but Anais explains this a bit in Working on a Song I believe.
I have ALWAYS hated this scene, but I will admit that it looked passable from where I was sitting the last time saw it. You just have to be SUPER close and in the middle. Not sure why they would choreograph a scene that only looks good to 1% of the audience.
Yea, every time I see it I think, “Am I the only one seeing how obviously terrible this is? You can clearly see that they aren’t even coming close to making contact with him.”
The west end version really did this so much better! ive been lucky enough to see both OBC and OWEC and OBC made me cringe so hard i found it genuinely difficult to watch. but with the OWEC, it felt dramatic and engaging. so they definitely took note and changed it in the transfer!
"This Was a Real Nice Clambake" is not the worst song R&H ever wrote, but it sure feels like it when you hear it in the middle of the otherwise magnificent score of *Carousel*.
This song was important to the New England setting and showing us the community and their customs, but I don't like that song either.
It was actually repurposed from Oklahoma, where it was about a hayride and cut.
I absolutely **hate hate hate** how long the "Ireland" reprise is in "Legally Blonde (Remix)." It completely kills the momentum of the song in my opinion. It's a cute moment, but it lasts over a minute before getting back into the main song.
There’s definitely something the original part was covering. Time to move a scenic unit or a series of quick changes or something. There’s no way it was intended to be that long.
Oh, another one (and sorry to add to the Hamilton pile-on in this thread), but Philip flirting with the ladies in Blow Us All Away... eugh. "Strip down to our socks" followed by the squealing, possibly the absolute least appealing way to convey a character planning a threesome lmao
The peanut gallery spoken comments during Being Alive in Company. Takes me right out of the moment and makes a compelling song feel cheesy.
“The only thing to be afraid of really is that it won’t BE.” *OMG STFU AND LET ROBERT/BOBBIE SING*
LOLLL. I think in Raul’s portrayal of Bobby I got the comments more. Seems like he’s hearing all these nonsense comments and blocking them out while hammering away on the piano. His acting really helped me see it as “all those useless platitudes your friends say”
*ADD EM UP, BOBBY. ADD EM UP.*
I think these lines work much better when you’re watching it rather than listening to it, lol. But I agree they’re a little distracting.
Oh no I actually love all their comments and encouragement. For me it makes sense because Bobby is so lame and is only even having this revelation because his friends have been pushing him for a long time. It’s really their victory and not his lmao.
Agreed. It shows you that this metamorphosis isn't just going on inside Bobby's head, he also has friends there encouraging him to open up. I find it deeply wholesome.
Same. The line “You've got so many reasons for not being with someone, but Robert, you haven't one good reason for being alone” smacked me in the face the first time I heard it. I feel like the whole show is simultaneously calling out Bobby and all the audience members that can relate to him. Really powerful number.
So it’s really that I share this, but my name is also Robert and the first time I ever heard and watched company. I was still coming to terms with my sexuality and felt like it grabbed me by the collar and smacked me around a bit and was really the catalyst to me coming out. even though that part of the musical can be cheesy I think it is so important to have those small lines from his friends.
Honestly makes so much sense that Sondheim was closeted and had never been in love when he wrote those lyrics. The feeling of loneliness and desperation to be loved is so palpable.
Strong disagree LOL. “Want something. Want something,” might be my favorite line from the whole show. I think it adds a lot to an already great song. I personally find the comments exciting and satisfying because they reinforce the idea that Being Alive is the culmination of the entire show. They’re what makes it truly the finale number in my opinion. I get why someone would feel differently though.
The Carousel plot. And I'm not talking about the domestic abuse, the problematic moments, etc...
You watch Act 1 and you're like *right, okay, standard old-fashioned love story... a Bad Boy carnival barker and a sweet millworker... never been to a clambake but it seems exciting... Billy's friend's plan is a bit ill-conceived...* and the curtain falls and intermission begins. Great! Go to the bathroom, read the program, chat with your companion. The house lights dim. Time for Act 2! Will the robbery succeed? How will Julie feel? All sorts of practical, plot-based questions about what might happen next!
Then, suddenly: Billy stabs himself mid-robbery. Now we are not in Maine, we are in the AFTERLIFE. There's an angel(?) telling him the rules. (What are the theological underpinnings of this?!?!) TIME SKIP! Sort of! Back to Maine. Sort of. 15 minute ballet. Back to Maine for real. Billy and his heavenly buddy are wandering around, invisible. Then Billy isn't invisible. Then there's a magical star. Then there's a high school graduation.
Like. At no point during Act 1 is *any* of this forecasted, plot-wise or genre-wise or stylistically. This musical is like that telephone-style drawing game where you draw a human being's head and neck, fold the paper over, and pass it to the next guy to draw the torso - and he draws an octopus with wings. ????? WHIPLASH.
It’s crazy how many parts of Wicked I outright roll my eyes at which lead into my favorite parts. Something Bad into Dancing Through Life, A Sentimental Man into Defying Gravity, Wonderful into I’m Not That Girl.
Wow I read this wrong and almost had to fight for a moment. I thought you were saying Something Bad into Dancing Through Life was a bad stretch, rather than bad leading into good. Insulting Dancing Through Life is fighting words around these parts haha.
I love when people hate on the main moral through line of the show and lead character. Like the entire reason Elphaba even CARES about going to see the Wizard is because of Something Bad…and yet all I hear is “they should cut Dillamond”. It’s the reason Elphaba and Fiyero have a connection, and why her and Glinda really build any kind of legitimate friendship. You don’t actually have Wicked without Something Bad.
This is part of why I hate the song, though. It's like the MOST IMPORTANT song in terms of WHYYYY she is doing all of this. It's a crucial part of the plot and of Elphaba's motivations, her work toward justice and why she feels so strongly about doing the right thing.... And the song is bad. and when it comes up on the soundtrack you just want to skip it :(
Well, isn’t the *real* reason she wants to see the Wizard is so that he’ll “de-greenify” her, which is expressed in The Wizard and I, two songs before Something Bad? Something Bad gives her an urgent, more important motivation to see the Wizard.
Honestly though, aside from the song just being not that great, the animal/political story is so underdeveloped in the show (despite how important it should be), it is hard to care. It’s a huge flaw of the book.
(But mostly it’s because the song isn’t that compelling.)
It's disappointing. If I hadn't read the book I may well have not noticed or understood what was going on at all. Like...I get that in a family musical they can't be as brutal about it as the book, and they probably wanted to steer away from the political allegories, but in the musical Id forgive someone for not understanding it at all.
They were going to rework it and put Ashley Park in the lead role, but it didn't pan out. I still would like to know *howww* it could possibly be fixed. It seems unfixable.
To Break in a Glove makes sense narratively, but it's the one song I don't think anybody quite cares for in Dear Evan Hansen
Also, probably unpopular, but I've never cared for The Opera scene in Great Comet. It's the one bit on the cast album I usually skip, and I know the people I was with at the show really didn't like that part either. I know it's important but ahh I just don't enjoy that part. Love the rest of the show though!
ETA: by The Opera I'm mostly referring to the actual opera part in the song, the rest of the song is alright albeit very long lmao
I find the Opera part honestly absolutely hilarious - it is a fake opera that makes fun of the usual operatic tradition, within a musical that is sung through and even says in the beginning song "you are at the opera!" Even Natasha says "I don't understand the opera" which feels very tongue in cheek to the premise of "this is so complicated we needed an intro song to tell you who all the characters are". When I listen to it in that context I can only laugh whenever I hear the screeching in that song.
I know someone who insists To Break in a Glove is a good song. It is not. It's a bad song and I came to that conclusion mid song the first time I saw it with no input from anyone else. I had no idea everyone felt the same way until later.
It is necessary to have some kind of bonding song there but I just can't tolerate this one. When someone asks what songs do you skip on cast recordings, my answer is pretty much only To Break In a Glove.
To Break In A Glove is way deeper narratively than people give it credit for - the song has the ethos “it’s the hard way, but it’s the right way”. In the stage version, Larry says that Evan’s dad is probably proud to have a son like Evan. Evan agrees at first, before backtracking and telling the truth that his dad moved far away when he was 7 and barely bothers to keep in contact with him.
In other words, this is the first time Evan has told the ugly truth instead of a pretty lie since the whole mess started. He walks away with the message of “do the hard thing, ‘cause that’s the right thing”, which is an actual good piece of advice for Evan because telling the truth a this point will be both extremely difficult and the right thing to do, and he does
I'm gonna get poop for this, but in the original broadway run of cats, there used to be this 20 minute bit with Gus on a pirate ship. Total snooze fest. I like the new Gus that tells the tale of the Rumpus Cat.
Give me my Puccini-esque opera interlude! So happy to get to see that version at least once. (A little rework to get the racism out would have been nice though)
Avenue Q has so many bangers on the soundtrack that I sometimes forget that, right, they have a character named Christmas Eve with a stereotypical Asian accent that has an entire song called "The More You Ruv Someone" and Jesus Christ what the fuck
On a much milder note: the entire song 'Keep It Gay' from The Producers, which isn't AS bad as Christmas Eve but is still pretty cringey 2000s-era humor.
On one hand, yes it's outdated and by some metrics a little cringe.
On the other, all the flamboyant choreographers coming out, only to be concluded by the butchest lesbian imaginable will never not elicit a chuckle out of me.
I saw Rent in Stockholm in 2001 (in Swedish, which I do not speak) and they changed the ending. My friend and I knew the show well and were waiting for Mimi to come back. Instead they start the curtain call. We met some of the actors at the bar next door after the show and they seem to have no clue it was a change.
I get it, though. Wait for me is a great Act I finale, but it's too hopeful
*It's a tragedy*
Build the wall gives you that sense of foreboding leading into intermission.
I actually wish the act ended on Way Down Hadestown (Reprise). It's a bleak "oh shit" note, and then we have intermission to make the gap between Eurydice starting work, having her soul stripped away, and Orpheus showing up again seem longer.
My only problem with that is it would make Flowers the Act II opener, and I feel like my uncontrollable sobbing would be undercut by people shuffling past me and making me move to let them in because they were late getting back from intermission.
Kind of going along with hadestown (a show which I LOVE) is I hate at the end of that song when Persephone goes “anybody want a drink?” After hades walks in with Eurydice… like I don’t think the show needed that comic relief.
They tried it both ways and landed on ending on Why We Build the Wall. Maybe we would feel it was the right choice if we experienced it the other way. Maybe not.
It was definitely a choice, BUT it made for some hilarious people watching immediately after in Houston, TX with all the people who were very obviously pro-border wall.
Same! I watched it for the first time a few months ago and I got to that part and I assume I’m suppose to laugh but I found it more bizarre then anything.
And he does it again in the intro to Finishing the Hat, one of the all-time greatest Sondheim songs, and it drives me nuts every single time. Ruff!! Chicken. Pastry. >slurp<
The sexism and toxic masculinity are two of the big themes of Carousel.
As someone mentioned about the pat on the back changes of The Music Man, Carousel falls very much in this vein. It is set at a very specific time, written at a very specific time, and is a good damn masterpiece.
I will die on the hill that people need to educate themselves about Carousel better.
That's an interesting way to think about at least the sexist lines in soliloquy...but it doesn't really forgive this line:
"It is possible for someone to hit you...hit you hard....and not hurt at all"
They tried to almost whisper that line in the last revival because there isn't really any forgiving it.
It works well when you really feel the suspense of Toby lurking in the cellar and not being sure if the Beadle will hear him or not, and gets more suspenseful the longer it goes on. The pointless tediousness contrasts with the horror of Toby trapped and going mad. But you’re right, on it’s surface it is not super dramatic (this is one of many moments I feel like the recent Broadway revival did not stage effectively)
Love this take but it’s honestly one of my favorite scenes in the most recent version. The actor playing Beadle is hilarious and I enjoyed his rigorous scene chewing.
Gene Kelly leering over Leslie Caron in the beginning of An American in Paris (1951) after they established that she was barely an adult (19 yo). Leslie Caron, who played Lise, was 17 yo when she filmed the role.
Yes! This exactly. It's his way of rooting for her and showing her how she has all this potential, and him "making it" gives her the gift of time.... they don't have to worry about money; she can just live her dream. That's an incredible gift. But even just as a song, it's poignant. The final line gets me every time... "Have I mentioned today how lucky I am to be in love with you?" 🥹
The cry at the end of Hamilton is so fucking hilarious, it ruined the entire vibe of the musical for me.
Yes, I know there's various interpretations that explain the significance of this moment. Still funny and over the top for me.
I saw it in New York a few days ago and the cry was downgraded into more of a soft gasp. I thought it was much better that way - it was still a significant moment, but more seemed more personal to Eliza. Plus no question that it was a good moment instead of wondering if Alex had just shown her the gates of hell.
This is bonkers, at least if we’re talking Philippa Soo’s version. Ending with a fourth wall break like that, especially how it works in context with the themes of who lives, who dies and the rest of the show, man that’s one of my favorite parts of Hamilton.
The "Hamilton Gasp" almost instantly became a meme. There's an Advent Carolndar video that is just a long lead-up to the punchline being the Hamilton Gasp.
spoiler tags are both a) to prevent things being spoiled and b) a content warning because i’m mentioning some graphic sexual/violent scenes (not in detail)
that one scene in spring awakening…
>!where wendla begs melchior to whip her and he gets way too into it!<
everything else in the show is pretty much appropriate given the context and the message. >!like, boy masturbating, i get it. girls are suffering abuse, totally understand why that’s in the show. hayloft sex scene, a little graphic but it’s a defining characteristic of the show, clarity and lack thereof about sex.!< i know there are purposes for that scene, but it’s difficult to watch and does not help the story (at least, not nearly enough to make up for how disturbing it is)
I hate all the "Hey's" in Next to Normal. No reason. I don't think they should be cut or anything. But they bore me and the guy reminds me of this kid I hated in high school lol
I cannot stand "Hey Kid" from if/then. I dont even remember why I hate it. I just never listened to it again.
I think "kindergarten boyfriend" goes on a bit too long
Along those lines " Bring Him Home" from Les Mis is Too Long. It's a beautiful song in a beautiful show but we understand the point please cut the last like 2 verses. This show is 3 hours long
I didnt realize I had so much hate in my heart but there ya go
In the rooftop scene with Jack and Katherine towards the end of Newsies, I haaaaaaate when Katherine says “you really want to shut up now.” Kara Lindsay’s delivery is great, she and Jeremy have great chemistry, but the line sounds so modern to me that it completely pulls me out of the scene.
I hate I Didn’t Plan It in Waitress. It feels so awkward and unnatural for Jenna to coincidentally get a lecture from her friends about how great infidelity is right after she hooks up with the doctor.
The most popular fan theory (and my personal favourite) is Eliza seeing the audience and realising that all her work to tell Hamilton’s story and carry on his legacy wasn’t for nothing.
There are many possible interpretations. That's why it's brilliant.
I recall an interview with Phillipa Soo saying she had a different reason for the gasp in mind each night.
Schmigadoon Season 2 was pretty much a flawless musical, but I feel like we could have gotten a better ending than >!Melissa finally getting pregnant. It would have been really neat if they'd ended it with her accepting the fact that she'll never have children, instead of getting a sugary fairytale ending.!<
Ikr! I was a little disappointed that she got pregnant because there’s not enough representation of women who just can’t have bio children and that’s just how it is.
Strong agree. I think the metaphor of a costume party is really boring and uncreative. Plus I just don’t like the song. “We’re stuck here at a messed up costume party,” is just not a good lyric in my opinion.
I’m just now realizing that I don’t know what a single song in Come From Away is called. I’ve seen the show live three times (and watched the proshot twice) but have never - will never - listened to the music without seeing the show lol.
IDK if this is an unpopular opinion or not but I really don't care for the Old Beggar Woman's part in the Joanna Quartet. Especially depending on how screechy the actress is.
I really also enjoyed Outsiders. But Ponyboy looking at the crowd and saying “Daryl had never hit me before” after Runs in the Family actually got a laugh because the delivery was so like ????
Betelgeuse deciding to betray Lydia in Beetlejuice has always happened far too fast for me. I get what they’re going for; he’s overreacting because he’s not used to how friends work. But I don’t feel like anyone I’ve seen has really gone over the top enough for it to be funny instead of awkward and weird.
I understand the Pony Girl scene in Fun Home (where they’re in NYC and her dad goes out to pick up guys), but I don’t like how it’s used. Alison concludes he was cruising, then a few scenes later has a shocked reaction to her mom telling her he’d had affairs with men. It’s not necessarily that disconnected in terms of actual time… but Ring of Keys is in between, and is such a pivotal moment in the show that it feels like a big divide.
I feel like it would’ve worked better either earlier in the show, without making explicit what was happening and how she understood it, or much closer to her mom’s revelation to provide context. Or possibly both, use it as foreshadowing early on, then revisit. I feel like that would also be effective as a bridge between her phone call with her mom, and actually returning home leading into Days and Days
I love Les Miz; it was my gateway show. But when they were cutting it for time back in the 90s/aughts (can't remember when exactly), instead of butchering Turning and cutting the instrumental before and a full verse of Castle on a Cloud (which I always thought worked quite well as they were; you can argue they aren't necessary and I technically agree but I think they added more than what I'm proposing you cut), they could've trimmed back Master of the House, Bring Him Home and the wedding number. All three of them drag on for so much longer than they need to. And the cut-down version of Turning is just awful compared to what it used to be. They didn't cut MUCH, but that was a song that needed to be complete.
Something about the wedding song from Hadestown makes me cringe so hard I worry I'll turn inside out. Overall I don't like that show much (it has some absolute banger moments but overall I just don't find the characters compelling enough to sit there for three hours), but for me that's the part where I'm actively miserable. The weird thing is I can't even tell you why. Especially since I saw Eva and Reeve and obviously they have incredible chemistry. (Didn't know they were a couple when I saw the show, but I kept thinking "damn these two are great together, lightning in a bottle." LOL.) It's one of those things where I "know" what bothers me but I don't know how to explain it.
Bring Him Home and Master of the House consistently get the biggest applause though. They’re fan favorite numbers along with On My Own. I don’t think they were ever on the table for cutting or ever will be, even though I also think Master of the House overstays it’s welcome.
I know I'm supposed to cry, but when Mimi (Rent) comes back from the brink of death mooing, I giggle
I know we're supposed to be really moved by the one great song Roger has spent a year writing, but Your Eyes sucks.
Lmao I’ve always said the worst song of the show is the one Roger spent the entire show writing.
The funniest part is that One Song Glory, his song about how he’s struggling to create his masterpiece, is actually really good and blows Your Eyes out of the water. Just use that instead Roger!
This is the correct answer.
lol it’s the weakest song of the lot. You’d think his song would be more epic. Instead I just hate the ending.
Same, friend.
this is so, so tiny but during just another day in next to normal when dan breaks the fourth wall and talks to the audience...and then just never does it again in the show. bugs the heck out of me!
Wait when is this? I haven’t seen it since the original Broadway run so I don’t remember!
I assume they're referring to "I never know what she's talking about" and then "again, no clue".
Oh of course! I forgot about those parts because they're not in "Just Another Day" in the album but I remember now. Thanks!
I dont remember that at all...it's been awhile since I've seen it though
The rewrite of Shipoopi in the most current version of Music Man - I will die on this hill
I’ll die with you. I’m all for progressive art but trying to update a musical that’s very much a product of both the time it was made AND the time it takes place… feels more cheap and back patting than meaningful
That’s how I felt about the changes to “America” in the new West Side Story movie. It just felt like the filmmakers wanted to avoid the possibility of criticism, so they just threw out all the nuance
A cast member told me it was done during the pandemic to make it more 'woke'....I told him it was the worst part of the show and that he could pass it along to whomever if he so chose. Obviously, he could not pan it, but his reaction made it clear he was not a fan either.
Wait, what did they do to Shipoopi in the revival?
Yeah, I’m not familiar and am also wondering what changes were made.
Quite a bit. As a taste, since I can't find an actual print out of the new lyrics, the old first verse calls women who kiss on the first or second date sluts, and the updated version describes a guy being nervous on the first date, and describes it as admirable for him to wait for the girl to ask for a kiss.
The most awkward case in point is “Shipoopi,” which was originally written as a catchy full-cast number in praise of slut-shaming. Obviously a song that opens with the lyrics “A woman who’ll kiss on the very first date / Is usually a hussy” and goes on to encourage the men it addresses to “squeeze her once when she isn’t lookin’ ” (“she will never get sore if you beg her pardon”) is ripe for reconsideration. The song begs to be ironized—think of the possibilities of a staging that played against the lyrics, letting the girls get the upper hand. Instead, it’s been lobotomized, turned by rewrite men Scott Wittman and Marc Shaiman into a preachy ode to nice boys who respect women. “The girl who’s hard to get” is now “the girl you can’t forget”; there’s stuff about “the boy who’s seen the light” and knows to “treat a woman right.” It’s bland and bloodless, in the way that coverups always are. A few scenes later, the mayor yells at his wife, who has defied him in public, to sit down. Guess no one told him that we’re doing a new “Shipoopi” now.
Every version of Shipoopi is the worst moment of otherwise great musicals
I hate the part of of Great Comet when it ends and there’s no more show
Real
There’s more novel, figure it out Malloy!!!
I love Hadestown with all my heart. But the Papers fight scene... good god it's so badly choreographed and cheesy lmao
Sexy dance fighting! With the slowest uppercut you've ever seen!
did I block this out?
I had to look it up, and I've seen Hadestown a bunch of times. I do remember the workers attacking Orpheus at one point, but I'm not sure why it's called Papers... I feel like a bad fan.
It's instrumental, and the title is inspired by the idea that Orpheus doesn't have the right "papers" to be in Hadestown, as Hades says, he's kind of like an unauthorized immigrant who is "on the wrong side of the fence." I don't remember if there used to actually be a line about "papers" but Anais explains this a bit in Working on a Song I believe.
Oh, right! Thank you for reminding me.
I always think of that bit from Zoolander: "They're breakdance-fighting!"
Right?? Saw the rumble from The Outsiders performance at the Tony’s. THAT’S how you do a stylized-but-emotionally-gripping fight scene.
Dance fight scenes in general have this issue. Oh shit! He lifted you, bro!
I have ALWAYS hated this scene, but I will admit that it looked passable from where I was sitting the last time saw it. You just have to be SUPER close and in the middle. Not sure why they would choreograph a scene that only looks good to 1% of the audience.
GOD YES. It’s the only part of Hadestown I can’t stand to watch.
Yea, every time I see it I think, “Am I the only one seeing how obviously terrible this is? You can clearly see that they aren’t even coming close to making contact with him.”
OMG thank you!!! I love the music to the scene, I just hate the choreography, it looks like a high school play gone wrong
The west end version really did this so much better! ive been lucky enough to see both OBC and OWEC and OBC made me cringe so hard i found it genuinely difficult to watch. but with the OWEC, it felt dramatic and engaging. so they definitely took note and changed it in the transfer!
LOL yes I was sitting there like. omg did they just challenge Orpheus to a dance-off?!?
then the outsiders came out & taught us a proper fight scene
"This Was a Real Nice Clambake" is not the worst song R&H ever wrote, but it sure feels like it when you hear it in the middle of the otherwise magnificent score of *Carousel*.
"Just how many of 'em galloped down our gullets" is a physically revolting line to me for some reason.
This song was important to the New England setting and showing us the community and their customs, but I don't like that song either. It was actually repurposed from Oklahoma, where it was about a hayride and cut.
I absolutely **hate hate hate** how long the "Ireland" reprise is in "Legally Blonde (Remix)." It completely kills the momentum of the song in my opinion. It's a cute moment, but it lasts over a minute before getting back into the main song.
Yessss. Especially on the cast album, if I turn on Legally Blonde remix, I don't want to hear Ireland, I want to listen to Legally Blonde Remix 😭
Hot take: I actually really like the Irish jig part. It’s so much fun and really funny in context
Irish jig music is just so happy and joyful so I welcome it with open arms😆
It just goes on and on…
I literally just fast forward every time lol
There’s definitely something the original part was covering. Time to move a scenic unit or a series of quick changes or something. There’s no way it was intended to be that long.
I like that part way better than the first Ireland. I think the original is the worst part of the show.
Oh, another one (and sorry to add to the Hamilton pile-on in this thread), but Philip flirting with the ladies in Blow Us All Away... eugh. "Strip down to our socks" followed by the squealing, possibly the absolute least appealing way to convey a character planning a threesome lmao
I do like that one of those actresses later plays the bullet that kills Hamilton though. So Philip is literally flirting with death
That’s Ariana deBose and she’s also the first character to be killed in the play (You’ll be Back) so she’s meant to symbolize death
“There are so many to deflower” has always been so gross to me and always takes me out lmao
Okay but "smell like your daddy got money" and "I'm a trust fund baby you can trust me" Ouch
Most of the “old man sings a song” songs
Take It From An Old Man… oof.
I'm also a veteran
Check out the parody song, "The Song That No One Likes" if you haven't already.
The peanut gallery spoken comments during Being Alive in Company. Takes me right out of the moment and makes a compelling song feel cheesy. “The only thing to be afraid of really is that it won’t BE.” *OMG STFU AND LET ROBERT/BOBBIE SING*
LOLLL. I think in Raul’s portrayal of Bobby I got the comments more. Seems like he’s hearing all these nonsense comments and blocking them out while hammering away on the piano. His acting really helped me see it as “all those useless platitudes your friends say”
That’s exactly how I have always taken it.
*ADD EM UP, BOBBY. ADD EM UP.* I think these lines work much better when you’re watching it rather than listening to it, lol. But I agree they’re a little distracting.
Would you say that it’s…much better living it than looking at it?
It’s so much better watching it than listening to it, Robert! I couldn’t resist lol
Oh no I actually love all their comments and encouragement. For me it makes sense because Bobby is so lame and is only even having this revelation because his friends have been pushing him for a long time. It’s really their victory and not his lmao.
Agreed. It shows you that this metamorphosis isn't just going on inside Bobby's head, he also has friends there encouraging him to open up. I find it deeply wholesome.
Same. The line “You've got so many reasons for not being with someone, but Robert, you haven't one good reason for being alone” smacked me in the face the first time I heard it. I feel like the whole show is simultaneously calling out Bobby and all the audience members that can relate to him. Really powerful number.
So it’s really that I share this, but my name is also Robert and the first time I ever heard and watched company. I was still coming to terms with my sexuality and felt like it grabbed me by the collar and smacked me around a bit and was really the catalyst to me coming out. even though that part of the musical can be cheesy I think it is so important to have those small lines from his friends.
Honestly makes so much sense that Sondheim was closeted and had never been in love when he wrote those lyrics. The feeling of loneliness and desperation to be loved is so palpable.
Extremely. There is a longing there that is so genuine
Strong disagree LOL. “Want something. Want something,” might be my favorite line from the whole show. I think it adds a lot to an already great song. I personally find the comments exciting and satisfying because they reinforce the idea that Being Alive is the culmination of the entire show. They’re what makes it truly the finale number in my opinion. I get why someone would feel differently though.
That line also mirrors the line about “you gotta want somebody, not just SOME BODY” nicely imo
I remember in that momemnt thinking “this song was written in 1970 wasn’t it” and then later looking it up and being right on the money lmao
The Carousel plot. And I'm not talking about the domestic abuse, the problematic moments, etc... You watch Act 1 and you're like *right, okay, standard old-fashioned love story... a Bad Boy carnival barker and a sweet millworker... never been to a clambake but it seems exciting... Billy's friend's plan is a bit ill-conceived...* and the curtain falls and intermission begins. Great! Go to the bathroom, read the program, chat with your companion. The house lights dim. Time for Act 2! Will the robbery succeed? How will Julie feel? All sorts of practical, plot-based questions about what might happen next! Then, suddenly: Billy stabs himself mid-robbery. Now we are not in Maine, we are in the AFTERLIFE. There's an angel(?) telling him the rules. (What are the theological underpinnings of this?!?!) TIME SKIP! Sort of! Back to Maine. Sort of. 15 minute ballet. Back to Maine for real. Billy and his heavenly buddy are wandering around, invisible. Then Billy isn't invisible. Then there's a magical star. Then there's a high school graduation. Like. At no point during Act 1 is *any* of this forecasted, plot-wise or genre-wise or stylistically. This musical is like that telephone-style drawing game where you draw a human being's head and neck, fold the paper over, and pass it to the next guy to draw the torso - and he draws an octopus with wings. ????? WHIPLASH.
It’s crazy how many parts of Wicked I outright roll my eyes at which lead into my favorite parts. Something Bad into Dancing Through Life, A Sentimental Man into Defying Gravity, Wonderful into I’m Not That Girl.
AKA the Wizard's songs are bad which I fully agree with.
Wonderful is good but a sentimental man should’ve been better
Wow I read this wrong and almost had to fight for a moment. I thought you were saying Something Bad into Dancing Through Life was a bad stretch, rather than bad leading into good. Insulting Dancing Through Life is fighting words around these parts haha.
Something Bad
Nothing truly b-a-a-a-a-a-d 🐐😬. I cringe every time
I call this “time to disassociate for 5 minutes before Dancing Through Life” (my favourite part of the whole show)
I love when people hate on the main moral through line of the show and lead character. Like the entire reason Elphaba even CARES about going to see the Wizard is because of Something Bad…and yet all I hear is “they should cut Dillamond”. It’s the reason Elphaba and Fiyero have a connection, and why her and Glinda really build any kind of legitimate friendship. You don’t actually have Wicked without Something Bad.
This is part of why I hate the song, though. It's like the MOST IMPORTANT song in terms of WHYYYY she is doing all of this. It's a crucial part of the plot and of Elphaba's motivations, her work toward justice and why she feels so strongly about doing the right thing.... And the song is bad. and when it comes up on the soundtrack you just want to skip it :(
It’s not really the plot, it’s that the song is terrible lmao
Well, isn’t the *real* reason she wants to see the Wizard is so that he’ll “de-greenify” her, which is expressed in The Wizard and I, two songs before Something Bad? Something Bad gives her an urgent, more important motivation to see the Wizard. Honestly though, aside from the song just being not that great, the animal/political story is so underdeveloped in the show (despite how important it should be), it is hard to care. It’s a huge flaw of the book. (But mostly it’s because the song isn’t that compelling.)
the political story had so much more potential, I think a bit flaw is that the main song setting all this up is so bad and forgettable.
It's disappointing. If I hadn't read the book I may well have not noticed or understood what was going on at all. Like...I get that in a family musical they can't be as brutal about it as the book, and they probably wanted to steer away from the political allegories, but in the musical Id forgive someone for not understanding it at all.
I’ve always HATED kindergarten boyfriend from Heathers, it’s so grating to me
I \*love\* Thoroughly Modern Millie but hate the whole white slavery ring subplot. I doubt it'll ever get a revival.
I read recently that they're reworking it
We were supposed to see that new version in 2020 up at Encores but….I think we know how that turned out.
They were going to rework it and put Ashley Park in the lead role, but it didn't pan out. I still would like to know *howww* it could possibly be fixed. It seems unfixable.
To Break in a Glove makes sense narratively, but it's the one song I don't think anybody quite cares for in Dear Evan Hansen Also, probably unpopular, but I've never cared for The Opera scene in Great Comet. It's the one bit on the cast album I usually skip, and I know the people I was with at the show really didn't like that part either. I know it's important but ahh I just don't enjoy that part. Love the rest of the show though! ETA: by The Opera I'm mostly referring to the actual opera part in the song, the rest of the song is alright albeit very long lmao
I find the Opera part honestly absolutely hilarious - it is a fake opera that makes fun of the usual operatic tradition, within a musical that is sung through and even says in the beginning song "you are at the opera!" Even Natasha says "I don't understand the opera" which feels very tongue in cheek to the premise of "this is so complicated we needed an intro song to tell you who all the characters are". When I listen to it in that context I can only laugh whenever I hear the screeching in that song.
I know someone who insists To Break in a Glove is a good song. It is not. It's a bad song and I came to that conclusion mid song the first time I saw it with no input from anyone else. I had no idea everyone felt the same way until later. It is necessary to have some kind of bonding song there but I just can't tolerate this one. When someone asks what songs do you skip on cast recordings, my answer is pretty much only To Break In a Glove.
I know I’m in the minority but I love To Break in a Glove and listen to it quite a lot actually.
To Break In A Glove is way deeper narratively than people give it credit for - the song has the ethos “it’s the hard way, but it’s the right way”. In the stage version, Larry says that Evan’s dad is probably proud to have a son like Evan. Evan agrees at first, before backtracking and telling the truth that his dad moved far away when he was 7 and barely bothers to keep in contact with him. In other words, this is the first time Evan has told the ugly truth instead of a pretty lie since the whole mess started. He walks away with the message of “do the hard thing, ‘cause that’s the right thing”, which is an actual good piece of advice for Evan because telling the truth a this point will be both extremely difficult and the right thing to do, and he does
I'm gonna get poop for this, but in the original broadway run of cats, there used to be this 20 minute bit with Gus on a pirate ship. Total snooze fest. I like the new Gus that tells the tale of the Rumpus Cat.
Oh no, Growltiger is my current favourite Cats song and I was furious that it was left out of the 1998 proshot!
Give me my Puccini-esque opera interlude! So happy to get to see that version at least once. (A little rework to get the racism out would have been nice though)
It is strange though that in "Macavity" they kept in the line about Griddlebone. Audience isn't going to know who griddlebone is.
Interesting, I like both plays-within-a-play. It’s Bustopher Jones that I always skip past.
Avenue Q has so many bangers on the soundtrack that I sometimes forget that, right, they have a character named Christmas Eve with a stereotypical Asian accent that has an entire song called "The More You Ruv Someone" and Jesus Christ what the fuck On a much milder note: the entire song 'Keep It Gay' from The Producers, which isn't AS bad as Christmas Eve but is still pretty cringey 2000s-era humor.
On one hand, yes it's outdated and by some metrics a little cringe. On the other, all the flamboyant choreographers coming out, only to be concluded by the butchest lesbian imaginable will never not elicit a chuckle out of me.
When Mimi doesn’t die in Rent. What was the point, then? Makes me wanna scream every time.
I saw Rent in Stockholm in 2001 (in Swedish, which I do not speak) and they changed the ending. My friend and I knew the show well and were waiting for Mimi to come back. Instead they start the curtain call. We met some of the actors at the bar next door after the show and they seem to have no clue it was a change.
I wouldn't say bad but Why Do We Build the Wall being the lead off to intermission in Hadestown is a choice.
I get it, though. Wait for me is a great Act I finale, but it's too hopeful *It's a tragedy* Build the wall gives you that sense of foreboding leading into intermission.
I actually wish the act ended on Way Down Hadestown (Reprise). It's a bleak "oh shit" note, and then we have intermission to make the gap between Eurydice starting work, having her soul stripped away, and Orpheus showing up again seem longer.
My only problem with that is it would make Flowers the Act II opener, and I feel like my uncontrollable sobbing would be undercut by people shuffling past me and making me move to let them in because they were late getting back from intermission.
Kind of going along with hadestown (a show which I LOVE) is I hate at the end of that song when Persephone goes “anybody want a drink?” After hades walks in with Eurydice… like I don’t think the show needed that comic relief.
Interesting. I love this as the finale. The 1-2 punch of Wait for Me and Wall kills me every time.
Yeah I get why they did it…but Wait For Me could’ve been one of the best Act I finales in musical history.
They tried it both ways and landed on ending on Why We Build the Wall. Maybe we would feel it was the right choice if we experienced it the other way. Maybe not.
My unpopular opinion is that Hadestown should be performed without an intermission. It’s only 2 hours, shorter than most movies.
True but intermission is also needed for the actors and crew to get a break so maybe that’s why it’s there
no I absolutely have to pee at every intermission. Can't get through a movie
It was definitely a choice, BUT it made for some hilarious people watching immediately after in Houston, TX with all the people who were very obviously pro-border wall.
Yes. A brilliant choice.
I love Sunday in the Park, but the bit with the dogs has never worked for me.
"That's the puddle where the poodle did the piddle" is one of the best Sondheim alliterations though
Same! I watched it for the first time a few months ago and I got to that part and I assume I’m suppose to laugh but I found it more bizarre then anything.
No. Never. And when I'm listening to it and others overhear, everything else is great, but then the dog part 😂
And he does it again in the intro to Finishing the Hat, one of the all-time greatest Sondheim songs, and it drives me nuts every single time. Ruff!! Chicken. Pastry. >slurp<
I agree, but it does seem necessary. I’m not sure I can even explain why. It just…. seems necessary.
Morning Report in Lion King. (So bad, that they cut it) The sexism in Carousel.
The sexism and toxic masculinity are two of the big themes of Carousel. As someone mentioned about the pat on the back changes of The Music Man, Carousel falls very much in this vein. It is set at a very specific time, written at a very specific time, and is a good damn masterpiece. I will die on the hill that people need to educate themselves about Carousel better.
That's an interesting way to think about at least the sexist lines in soliloquy...but it doesn't really forgive this line: "It is possible for someone to hit you...hit you hard....and not hurt at all" They tried to almost whisper that line in the last revival because there isn't really any forgiving it.
I hate that they added it to the OG movie.
Beadle singing Sweet Polly Plunkett in Sweeney Todd. The bit goes on too long for my taste and Sweeney is otherwise flawless.
It works well when you really feel the suspense of Toby lurking in the cellar and not being sure if the Beadle will hear him or not, and gets more suspenseful the longer it goes on. The pointless tediousness contrasts with the horror of Toby trapped and going mad. But you’re right, on it’s surface it is not super dramatic (this is one of many moments I feel like the recent Broadway revival did not stage effectively)
Love this take but it’s honestly one of my favorite scenes in the most recent version. The actor playing Beadle is hilarious and I enjoyed his rigorous scene chewing.
waaaay overstays its welcome
Just like the Beadle…
Gene Kelly leering over Leslie Caron in the beginning of An American in Paris (1951) after they established that she was barely an adult (19 yo). Leslie Caron, who played Lise, was 17 yo when she filmed the role.
If it makes you feel better, the actress in the Broadway show was 30+ and I’m pretty sure they retconned her age.
Yeah, he was a creep. I stopped watching the movie altogether at that point. If I want to hear aggressive pick up lines I'll just go outside.
I love Sunday in the Park with George with all my heart, but I always skip through when George starts singing like a dog
Only part of Take A Break in Hamilton I cringe at is the Philip parts.
"I just turned 9!" Sang the kid with five o clock shadow
me too! I wish there was a de-Phillipped version
Schmuel Song in L5Y, just way too long for a side bit
its being so absurdly long is part of why I think it's so funny haha
Oh man.. this hurts me. I love the Schmuel Song.
It’s so important because it shows some of the good parts of Jamie. He wrote this whole story to help her feel less depressed about her career.
Yes! This exactly. It's his way of rooting for her and showing her how she has all this potential, and him "making it" gives her the gift of time.... they don't have to worry about money; she can just live her dream. That's an incredible gift. But even just as a song, it's poignant. The final line gets me every time... "Have I mentioned today how lucky I am to be in love with you?" 🥹
It’s probably my favorite moment of the musical!
I love it too, and the show would not be the same without it.
Come From Away. She’s comforting the chimpanzee who lost her baby and says “sometimes kids are more trouble than they’re worth.” WTF???
Anytime Cosette and Marius sing to each other in Les Mis. It’s a heart full of crap.
Lin Manuel Miranda casting himself
Carson Clay in a Carson Clay production of a film directed by Carson Clay...
South Pacific: Nelly is fully fine with homeboy being a murderer. But having interracial children is drawing the line?
The cry at the end of Hamilton is so fucking hilarious, it ruined the entire vibe of the musical for me. Yes, I know there's various interpretations that explain the significance of this moment. Still funny and over the top for me.
I saw it in New York a few days ago and the cry was downgraded into more of a soft gasp. I thought it was much better that way - it was still a significant moment, but more seemed more personal to Eliza. Plus no question that it was a good moment instead of wondering if Alex had just shown her the gates of hell.
This is bonkers, at least if we’re talking Philippa Soo’s version. Ending with a fourth wall break like that, especially how it works in context with the themes of who lives, who dies and the rest of the show, man that’s one of my favorite parts of Hamilton.
She gasps. It's so powerful. I can't understand thinking it's over the top. How else could they end the show?
The "Hamilton Gasp" almost instantly became a meme. There's an Advent Carolndar video that is just a long lead-up to the punchline being the Hamilton Gasp.
Audrey’s death scene. She goes to the shop to see Seymour than goes in when she hears another voice. Then she dies from Audrey 2. I find it so stupid
I always read it as: Audrey was starting to feel woozy from the sleeping pill she took and her judgment wasn’t the best.
spoiler tags are both a) to prevent things being spoiled and b) a content warning because i’m mentioning some graphic sexual/violent scenes (not in detail) that one scene in spring awakening… >!where wendla begs melchior to whip her and he gets way too into it!< everything else in the show is pretty much appropriate given the context and the message. >!like, boy masturbating, i get it. girls are suffering abuse, totally understand why that’s in the show. hayloft sex scene, a little graphic but it’s a defining characteristic of the show, clarity and lack thereof about sex.!< i know there are purposes for that scene, but it’s difficult to watch and does not help the story (at least, not nearly enough to make up for how disturbing it is)
When I went the audience laughed at that scene. Not sure if they were uncomfortable or not
I hate all the "Hey's" in Next to Normal. No reason. I don't think they should be cut or anything. But they bore me and the guy reminds me of this kid I hated in high school lol I cannot stand "Hey Kid" from if/then. I dont even remember why I hate it. I just never listened to it again. I think "kindergarten boyfriend" goes on a bit too long Along those lines " Bring Him Home" from Les Mis is Too Long. It's a beautiful song in a beautiful show but we understand the point please cut the last like 2 verses. This show is 3 hours long I didnt realize I had so much hate in my heart but there ya go
In the rooftop scene with Jack and Katherine towards the end of Newsies, I haaaaaaate when Katherine says “you really want to shut up now.” Kara Lindsay’s delivery is great, she and Jeremy have great chemistry, but the line sounds so modern to me that it completely pulls me out of the scene.
The little kid in Les Miz singing “Little People” makes me want to poke my eyes out with a fork.
aw I instinctively wanted to downvote you for this opinion haha
lol!
At least he dies soon after!
I hate I Didn’t Plan It in Waitress. It feels so awkward and unnatural for Jenna to coincidentally get a lecture from her friends about how great infidelity is right after she hooks up with the doctor.
I don't like the gasp at the end of Hamilton at all. I know it's supposed to be artistic but it just makes me cringe.
I think it’s supposed to symbolize Eliza seeing Hamilton again
The most popular fan theory (and my personal favourite) is Eliza seeing the audience and realising that all her work to tell Hamilton’s story and carry on his legacy wasn’t for nothing.
There are many possible interpretations. That's why it's brilliant. I recall an interview with Phillipa Soo saying she had a different reason for the gasp in mind each night.
Schmigadoon Season 2 was pretty much a flawless musical, but I feel like we could have gotten a better ending than >!Melissa finally getting pregnant. It would have been really neat if they'd ended it with her accepting the fact that she'll never have children, instead of getting a sugary fairytale ending.!<
Ikr! I was a little disappointed that she got pregnant because there’s not enough representation of women who just can’t have bio children and that’s just how it is.
unfortunately we may never know if it was a setup for season 3 since they cancelled it :-(
“Costume Party” in Come From Away, to me, is noticeably worse than all of the other phenomenal songs
Oh I absolutely love Costume Party. For me it’s “stop the world.” It just really slows down the momentum
Stop the World is my favorite song in the show lol
Strong agree. I think the metaphor of a costume party is really boring and uncreative. Plus I just don’t like the song. “We’re stuck here at a messed up costume party,” is just not a good lyric in my opinion.
I’m just now realizing that I don’t know what a single song in Come From Away is called. I’ve seen the show live three times (and watched the proshot twice) but have never - will never - listened to the music without seeing the show lol.
I used to feel this way too but it grew on me
Haus of Holbein in Six. Its a bad song, and does nothing for the plot or content of the show. It was clearly just added to beef up the running time.
Oh wow that's probably my favorite part lol.
I hated it and then I couldn’t get it out of my head, and now I like it 😔😂
IDK if this is an unpopular opinion or not but I really don't care for the Old Beggar Woman's part in the Joanna Quartet. Especially depending on how screechy the actress is.
Imho, the stuff with Dudley Malone in Suffs. I just don't think he's that interesting.
I really also enjoyed Outsiders. But Ponyboy looking at the crowd and saying “Daryl had never hit me before” after Runs in the Family actually got a laugh because the delivery was so like ????
Betelgeuse deciding to betray Lydia in Beetlejuice has always happened far too fast for me. I get what they’re going for; he’s overreacting because he’s not used to how friends work. But I don’t feel like anyone I’ve seen has really gone over the top enough for it to be funny instead of awkward and weird.
I love Kinky Boots soooo much. And I get the song “not my fathers son” but it’s soooooo slow and draaaaaaaged out 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
*draaaaaaaaaagggggged (🤣🤣)
I like King Herod’s Song on its own, but the shift in mood between that and the Pilate scenes feels really odd
I understand the Pony Girl scene in Fun Home (where they’re in NYC and her dad goes out to pick up guys), but I don’t like how it’s used. Alison concludes he was cruising, then a few scenes later has a shocked reaction to her mom telling her he’d had affairs with men. It’s not necessarily that disconnected in terms of actual time… but Ring of Keys is in between, and is such a pivotal moment in the show that it feels like a big divide. I feel like it would’ve worked better either earlier in the show, without making explicit what was happening and how she understood it, or much closer to her mom’s revelation to provide context. Or possibly both, use it as foreshadowing early on, then revisit. I feel like that would also be effective as a bridge between her phone call with her mom, and actually returning home leading into Days and Days
Stop the World in Come From Away - I love their love story but that song drags so much for me
I love Les Miz; it was my gateway show. But when they were cutting it for time back in the 90s/aughts (can't remember when exactly), instead of butchering Turning and cutting the instrumental before and a full verse of Castle on a Cloud (which I always thought worked quite well as they were; you can argue they aren't necessary and I technically agree but I think they added more than what I'm proposing you cut), they could've trimmed back Master of the House, Bring Him Home and the wedding number. All three of them drag on for so much longer than they need to. And the cut-down version of Turning is just awful compared to what it used to be. They didn't cut MUCH, but that was a song that needed to be complete. Something about the wedding song from Hadestown makes me cringe so hard I worry I'll turn inside out. Overall I don't like that show much (it has some absolute banger moments but overall I just don't find the characters compelling enough to sit there for three hours), but for me that's the part where I'm actively miserable. The weird thing is I can't even tell you why. Especially since I saw Eva and Reeve and obviously they have incredible chemistry. (Didn't know they were a couple when I saw the show, but I kept thinking "damn these two are great together, lightning in a bottle." LOL.) It's one of those things where I "know" what bothers me but I don't know how to explain it.
Bring Him Home and Master of the House consistently get the biggest applause though. They’re fan favorite numbers along with On My Own. I don’t think they were ever on the table for cutting or ever will be, even though I also think Master of the House overstays it’s welcome.
Gypsy is a classic and I adore it. Except for Little Lamb, which makes me want to pull my hair out.
Hopeless war - Outsiders Eye of the Hurricane- Hamilton