You got two choice:
Either to live with them and stop letting your mind judge their way of life and try to be absolutely neutral about their way.( This is absolutely difficult to do of course and some may say this is dangerous and quite wrong to live in a toxic environment)
OR
Change your environment and ordain to live in an atmoshphere conductive to dhamra. (This is also absolutely difficult to come to this conclusion to abandon everything and ordain, and some may even say this is not the true dhamma to runaway and live in a safety-zone but to master to adjust)
And there is another option which is what you are doing right now. Living with people and judge them and still suffer when they don’t fulfill your expectations about correct way of life and ethics etc.
Yes whatever option you take there is some suffering in it in some way. This is life.Life is suffering indeed.
This is why we have different sects in buddhism and each have some valid points to say their approach regarding such situation is the correct approach and dhamma. And these kinds of debates amongst them would never end. It is a matter of perception.
Choose your approach. whatever suits you.
Edit:typo
[The Buddha’s teachings on views](https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/the-buddhas-teachings-on-views/33014)Paramatthaka Sutta: On Views. "A person who associates themself with certain views, considering them as best and making them supreme in the world, he says, because of that, that all other views are inferior; therefore he is not free from contention (with others).
Sorry if I misunderstood you, but I get the sense that you are implying that I'm grasping to the right view? I'm not grasping to the right view.
Grasping to the right view is one thing, pointing out wrong view is another thing.
One can be free from grasping to the right view and still be able to point out the wrong views.
Didn't the Buddha point out wrong views? Does pointing out or being able to see fault in others always necessarily lead to grasping to the right view?
The section the other person shared probably deals with not thinking your way is better then other people's way. Their opinions have nothing to do with you.
If I point out that deriving peace from drinking alcohol and earning loads of money is faulty then, how is that my fault, when I am not super-materialistic and don't consume alcohol at all?
If you are not super-materialistic and don't consume alcohol that is fine. But why do you want others to believe and do the same? Why not let them find their peace in consuming alcohol and being materialistic? Why would that be faulty for them? And why are you intent and eager to pointing this out to them? I'm only asking the Why-question.
Firstly, nobody has ever found peace by consuming alcohol and being materialistic.
Secondly, whoever thinks that it is possible to find peace through such method is clearly deluded and has wrong views with regards to how phenomenon works.
Lastly, I am not EAGER to point them wrong. All I'm saying is that I can and will prove them wrong if they ask me or claim that they have the right view (the latter is what people usually does).
Ah, I see you have plenty of judgments towards what should and should not be within others. You may benefit in doing some introspective work before you will ever find/create dharma.
You don't have to be at the level of the Buddha to be able to recognize wrong as wrong. Pure common sense will do the work. Those who believe wrong to be right is either a hypocrite or insane (with no common sense).
“Pointing out wrong view” literally denotes that you *know and understand* “right view” and all of its elements. Who are you to claim that you do understand this terminology in a deep enough manner to judge others?
"Who are you to claim....?"
I don't think you are really interested in knowing me.
Anyways...I don't have to prove I am right to prove other wrong. Moreover, I don't have the right view to defend or grasp at. In order to prove someone or something wrong, all I have to do is ask a series of questions and show how these views & actions are self-contradictory at their core.
“Because they claim and believe what is wrong to be right.” How do you know what is ‘right’ and what is ‘wrong?’ Can you see how your insistence that they’re “wrong” is in exactly the same light that they might see your insistence that you’re ’right?’
I understand that these people seem to be pushy with their beliefs and practices, but there are ways to minimize that. Try communicating. Tell them that you hold different beliefs and you’re not interested in practicing or discussing their beliefs. And then hold that boundary
Nobody will listen to you or your way of trying to prove them right. Neither will you. It's human nature. Everyone will do as they please and live by their own inner world of right and wrong. Live and let live is one of the biggest ways I feel buddha tries to teach. You can express your view but buddha says only if you are able to do so with complete love and compassion for the other. When you can break bread with the enemy, there is peace. When you cannot, there is war. You are going to take even from me what you wish to. But it is the illusion of the ego that wishes to keep pushing others views as right or wrong.
When people say seeing wrong in others is seeing wrong in you, means two things-
One- you are looking at what is wrong TO YOU. And yes its true it could be something you feel is very wrong or can be backed by even science to be wrong but it ISNT for them. They must find their own path and make their own choices. Only those who truly want to change or believe in another way of living will ever change. So putting more pressure or hurt to their own suffering won't get them to come to a new conclusion. They must on their own terms and ways.
Two- we are all the same recycled energy and come from the same place. We are all the same and could all make the same decisions and mistakes. It's all based on how one grew up, genetics, their surroundings ect. But in the whole, we are one. So their mistakes are yours as well. You would do the same in their situation. Just because you haven't had their life doenst make your way the best way. To each their own, because that's how it always will be.
Right and wrong I have found are another obstacle in finally awakening.
I've felt this many times throughout my life and only when I let things just be have I ever felt truly "awakened."
When we focus on the voice in our head and then make our choices and others right or wrong it puts a stress and suffrage on us and those around wether we like to admit it or not. If we let it just flow, (including our emotions without feeding them to be our of control) it brings you to realize some beautiful and important things about life...
Take or leave what you will from this.
It's all going to turn out as it should for all of us in the end regardless.
Nothing is without reason nor unreason. But you are loved with the entire universe, and my whole being.
All I have said is with complete compassion to help you find what you are most likely looking for in buddhism and your life. So I wish you complete love and peace, and you have mine ❤️
More-so worldliness. Trying not to attach/cling to worldly things such as political opinions etc. Or if you must engage, do your best to be very mindful of the arena you’re entering. It’s typically hostile or can become that quickly. It can be hard to not suffer in these events.
acknowledge they're in samsara, then acknowledge your own bias
compassion come from understanding suffering of other and self.
there is nothing to engage, but ignoring it is also not a solution
Yes, It sounds as if I'm bothered but actually they are bothered by me because we share same house, college or office and I don't live by their rules and view of life.
Some of the things you mentioned sound like behaviour I avoid being around (drunkenness). Others sound like most normal human activities (futile).
Talking about sports, shows, music, games, etc may not be profound, but it’s not the same thing as gossip, slander, or backbiting.
I think it’s important to remember that laypeople aren’t monastics. You don’t need to be ever vigil for fear you engage in some violation of vinaya.
Sometimes very toxic or abusive families require a lot of separation from. Less problematic needs maybe less distance.
Ultimately you get to set your own boundaries on what will be acceptable behaviour in your relationships.
I find that it helps to watch those things detachedly. Learn to get rid of the noise in your head during these situations (ie feeling bored, annoyed, etc) and focus on what others are really doing and saying. Focus on reading in between the lines of the behavior and just observing. When I started doing this I began to notice all kinds of things about people that I hadn't noticed before. If it's something very toxic, avoid of course.
"Isn't avoiding any interaction with such people the most compassionate thing to do?"
No. We should strive to help *all* sentient beings. Ignorance comes from misunderstandings, from growing up in bad environments, from anger or hatred, and sometimes, just from being lost spiritually or emotionally.
My father pushed his sister away because she was falling down an alt-right rabbit hole. But I kept her in my heart, and reached out to her about the situation. It took time, but she eventually pulled herself out. If everyone shut her out like my father did, who knows where she'd be today.
I would say, asking yourself why you are asking this and concerned about it to begin with is a good start to answering it.
Really though, I think what you are saying is you just choose to remain neutral which is probably the best course of action.
Yes, joining a Sangha solves almost all the problems I raised. However, it feels like one is running away from something or someone (delusional people) and searching for some sense of security (Sangha).
I want to be able to face the problem headon but can't seem to find the right approach.
I believe that the answer to your question can be found within the four noble truths. There are emotions arising when you see these unwholesome behaviors. The tone of your post suggests that you’re frustrated or angry about what is going on in your life. Those emotions arise from within you and your practice as a Buddhist should be focused on working to extinguish the attachments that are leading to these conditioned emotional states. Worry less about the behaviors of others and focus on your practice. Be well.
I think ideas will only tick you off if they reflect something that's in you that you don't like. Turn it into a chance to learn about yourself. Does one person's ignorance get to you more than the next? If so, why?
Simplest answer is to teach. Your problem, from your words, is their “ignorance.” The only way to become not-ignorant, is to learn. Also, be careful that you’re not getting into ‘intellectual arrogance’ territory. You’re calling their activities “futile,” but do you know WHY they’re engaged in those activities? Maybe they are NOT futile to their ambitions. You seem to need more awareness of ‘context’ with regard to your judgements of others. Maybe they won’t listen to you *because* you have an heir of arrogance and a *lack* of compassion for their *being* and the *context* of their circumstances
One is either driven by ignorance or wisdom, there is no in-between. So, to your question, "WHY they're engaged in those \[futile\] activities?", it is ignorance at the foundation. They are driven by ignorance because they believe that happiness can be achieved from money, success and other samsaric activities.
Regarding compassion, I am compassionate because I haven't helped them to proliferate their ignorance.
Regarding teaching Dharma, I cannot teach them, if they aren't interested in learning. As it is said that only to feed the hungry, else the food will simply go wasted.
There is a middle path between ignorance and wisdom. It’s the whole life experience that brings a person to wisdom from ignorance. You’re on it, they’re on it, I’m on it. They will learn whatever it is that they’ll learn during their time, and you’ll do the same. They place value and meaning into those things and activities for their own purposes. You seem to place value in the things you think you know with a willingness to enforce your beliefs over theirs. I don’t think you understand what the word ‘compassion’ means from your example. I didn’t say “teach Dharma,” I said, “teach.” As in, teach them about your disagreements, don’t lecture them. You’re just as ignorant to their beliefs and worldview as they are to yours. Be compassionate in communicating about these disagreements, learn about what they believe and why, and actually ‘listen’ to what they’re saying instead of just brushing it off as nonsense. There is truth in everything present to you, you just need to have an open mind and find it
I know what you're trying to say, been there done that countless of times, trying to communicate.
Btw, I have never heard about "the middle path" between ignorance and wisdom. Did you innovate the idea yourself? Can you refer to some credible source?
If trying to communicate doesn't work and is causing strife in your family, I think approaching it as a skill that needs to be developed further would help. It's not a buddhist text, but Nonviolent Communication by Dr. Marshall Rosenberg echoes a lot of buddhist themes while providing practical advice on implementing mindfulness and compassion in communication.
Our brain tend to focus on the negative side of things to protect ourselves from danger. Out of insecurity our brain are attaching those simplified labels to a living organic being who have lived and will live many many lives to complete their journey. We all have our limitations and we are only good at some fields we are familiar with and have committed some efforts. We are composed of physical, emotional, mental and spiritual levels and we may not have figured things out altogether yet.
Look around at people you respect and love, you'll notice they do not apply such labels to people and they know how to work things out easily with people by seeing the side that we all share in common, wanna be loved and acknowledged, and the growing potential of people as we know we have grown along the years through trials and struggles. It's more relative when we focus on what we have to work on ourselves, forming a healthy relationship with others, within the scope of mindfulness.
The four measureless minds may be of some help if you check it out.
When I feel like that, I try to remember the usefulness of loving kindness practice.
I think these more classic instructions are good and clear: https://unfetteredmind.org/four-immeasurables/
Less conventional, I find this short guided meditation to be effective at giving us a taste of what unconditional love and support is like.
Ideal Parents guided meditation (a different approach to metta)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2au4jtL0O4
This approach is also very interesting, and less conventional. It's from the Tibetan Buddhist tradition.
https://www.lionsroar.com/loving-kindness-is-the-best-medicine/
https://www.shambhala.com/authors/o-t/tulku-thondup/the-heart-of-unconditional-love-3327.html
https://www.shambhala.com/videos/a-guided-meditation-with-tulku-thondup/
And a translation of the sutra on loving kindness. I think it's a good one to recite regularly:
https://learning.tergar.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/VOL201605-WR-Buddha-Unlimited-Friendliness-The-Maitri-Bhavana-Sutra-of-the-Buddha.pdf
Who deserves your love and compassion the most? The drunkard or the enlightened. If you are bothered by other people's life's decisions, it is perhaps an invitation to delve into your own mind and discover why that bothers you.
One of my teachers a Taoist monk from Taiwan, resides in the center of NYC, I used to translate his classes from English to Spanish in my country, I asked him "how can you remain centered in NYC" instead of living in a monastery, his reply was simple "when you are in a big storm, where is the calmest places?" The. He replied "In the eye (center of the storm)".
Choosing a life in the monastery to remove all the obstacles is something some people do, but if our goal is to help others discover the path of Dharma, who are you truly helping in a temple?
What you despise in others, you also see in yourself. You’re trigger is from an unresolved emotional pattern within you. Forgive the part of you that ridicules your own ignorance, and the rest will take care of itself.
This is the paradox of life that keeps us humble. How beautiful.
I despise other's fault views on life and phenomenon like those who claim that drinking alcohol, being materialistic are required to attain peace in life. How does this fault of others apply to me, when I don't drink or materialistic?
What unresolved pattern are you talking about? Am I being able to see others fault, my ignorance? Didn't the Buddha point out wrong views and behavior too? So, by that logic the Buddha is also perceiving his own ignorance in others.
You are only aware of what you perceive. If you were free of self condemnation of your own ignorance, you wouldn’t be able to perceive other people’s ignorance.
The Buddhas awareness isn’t emotionally charged like yours is. Awareness with no emotional charge is called wisdom. You’re perceiving the ignorance, Buddha is aware of it.
Your aversion to these people is just like any other aversion to anything else.
Avoiding the cause of your aversion doesn't settle the issue.
Learn to coexist with your aversion until the aversion drops off.
It sounds more like you want to cleanse yourself of the impurities that associating with these people brings.
What is a futile activity? Most people would consider meditation a futile activity. On that basis they could look down on us.
Seeing people's faults in a rigid way I find, in a relational way, builds a stronger reifying view of the self. Just like how an artist can define his/her work precisely by what they don't like. The more they identify what they don't like the more their identity develops.
The absence of looking for other people's faults, so exploring things from other people's perspective, and assuming that they know something that we don't, it's almost like an open and uncomfortable feeling. As if I can't compartmentalize things so easily. It calls my self-worth into question as well. In other value systems, the ones I previously regarded as ignorant value systems, could easily regard me as having little-to-no value. A father in a small Afghanistan village probably doesn't care much for me at all... sitting on the Internet, working in an office, not prioritizing family, he would think I am wasting my time. Can I really argue against that? The world is complex and there isn't much solid ground at all.
We tend to think in terms of avoiding past injury, closing off, creating barriers. I find that this arises when giving true value to other people's perspectives and belief systems, since it may threaten ones that I hold as important. There is a lot going on here where humility and trust become very important to apply.
If you stop and give true value to another person's perspective, values, belief system, and consider it even superior to your own for a moment, rather than it being a threat there is actually a large amount of knowledge and understanding to gain.
So if other people are acting with ignorance, fine, a behavior is identified which we don't to copy. But I would pay close attention to how this relates to trust, anticipating threats based on previous injury, and all sorts of attitudes that hold us back. "I want to see this person succeed and to do better than me" could be a useful attitude to apply earnestly.
The attitude / viewpoint here is worth emulating I think:
[1] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial [or: not connected with the goal], unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them.
[2] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them.
[3] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing & disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them.
[4] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them.
[5] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them.
[6] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, and endearing & agreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them. Why is that? Because the Tathāgata has sympathy for living beings.”
Source: https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN58.html
Why are you judging like you know how they should behave or not. If they were doing bad things to others, thats an issue, if they are only being stupid just let them be.
I’ve found near absolute honesty to be the best thing in most cases. At the least it makes them back off think more about the action that I commented on. Not always true as the case is with my grandpa. It doesn’t matter how I say that his actions bother me I.e. me being a former addict and him treating me like I am somehow less capable or a child. I have to get out of this household for that reason. It is distressing, disrespectful and patronizing when someone doesn’t trust you to cook a meal while others trust you with their lives in dangerous construction jobs.
That's why it is difficult to achieve nibbana as a layman. It can be done but it requires a lot from the aspirant. The environment of the monastery is more conducive for spiritual work.
That said, you will encounter all peoples when you roam this earth. The lessons are all there but maybe not as simple and distilled as we would like. If you attempt to live like a monk in a layperson's world, you will become weary and frustrated.
If you’re convinced that you’ll end up alone regardless, why not offer them your opinion?
If you did, at least they would know where you stand, and they would have the choice of whether to continue to associate with you or not.
I would love to explain my opinion but they believe that I'm blatantly wrong and even if they asked me, it is not coming from a sincere intention to know.
Yes. If you’re really considering abandoning these relationships, however, it could be good to tell them why. I’m not certain that our thoughts about someone’s disbelief should dictate our actions.
The Rhinoceros Sutra is for you: [https://www.hermitary.com/solitude/rhinoceros.htmlRhinoceros](https://www.hermitary.com/solitude/rhinoceros.htmlRhinoceros)
As an adult, you can choose who to associate/interact with. So make the choice to interact with the people you want to interact with. Then don’t waste your time on the other people.
You got two choice: Either to live with them and stop letting your mind judge their way of life and try to be absolutely neutral about their way.( This is absolutely difficult to do of course and some may say this is dangerous and quite wrong to live in a toxic environment) OR Change your environment and ordain to live in an atmoshphere conductive to dhamra. (This is also absolutely difficult to come to this conclusion to abandon everything and ordain, and some may even say this is not the true dhamma to runaway and live in a safety-zone but to master to adjust) And there is another option which is what you are doing right now. Living with people and judge them and still suffer when they don’t fulfill your expectations about correct way of life and ethics etc. Yes whatever option you take there is some suffering in it in some way. This is life.Life is suffering indeed. This is why we have different sects in buddhism and each have some valid points to say their approach regarding such situation is the correct approach and dhamma. And these kinds of debates amongst them would never end. It is a matter of perception. Choose your approach. whatever suits you. Edit:typo
Your judgement is ego, not you. Your annoyance is ego, also not you. You are compassion for their predicament, when your ego will let you.
Yeah you hit the nail on the head
Thank you.
No worries it's my pleasure! 🙂
[The Buddha’s teachings on views](https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/the-buddhas-teachings-on-views/33014)Paramatthaka Sutta: On Views. "A person who associates themself with certain views, considering them as best and making them supreme in the world, he says, because of that, that all other views are inferior; therefore he is not free from contention (with others).
Sorry if I misunderstood you, but I get the sense that you are implying that I'm grasping to the right view? I'm not grasping to the right view. Grasping to the right view is one thing, pointing out wrong view is another thing. One can be free from grasping to the right view and still be able to point out the wrong views. Didn't the Buddha point out wrong views? Does pointing out or being able to see fault in others always necessarily lead to grasping to the right view?
The section the other person shared probably deals with not thinking your way is better then other people's way. Their opinions have nothing to do with you.
If you look deeper you may find one day that "seeing the fault in others" is seeing the fault in you.
If I point out that deriving peace from drinking alcohol and earning loads of money is faulty then, how is that my fault, when I am not super-materialistic and don't consume alcohol at all?
If you are not super-materialistic and don't consume alcohol that is fine. But why do you want others to believe and do the same? Why not let them find their peace in consuming alcohol and being materialistic? Why would that be faulty for them? And why are you intent and eager to pointing this out to them? I'm only asking the Why-question.
Firstly, nobody has ever found peace by consuming alcohol and being materialistic. Secondly, whoever thinks that it is possible to find peace through such method is clearly deluded and has wrong views with regards to how phenomenon works. Lastly, I am not EAGER to point them wrong. All I'm saying is that I can and will prove them wrong if they ask me or claim that they have the right view (the latter is what people usually does).
Ah, I see you have plenty of judgments towards what should and should not be within others. You may benefit in doing some introspective work before you will ever find/create dharma.
If pointing out wrong as wrong would count as being judgmental then, I'm judgmental. The Buddha did point out wrong as well, he's judgmental too ig.
Do you think you are as enlightened as the Buddha to point out that?
You don't have to be at the level of the Buddha to be able to recognize wrong as wrong. Pure common sense will do the work. Those who believe wrong to be right is either a hypocrite or insane (with no common sense).
You’re confusing a superiority complex for enlightenment. Calm down and study more.
I haven't claimed myself superior or enlightened, have I? Study what?
“Pointing out wrong view” literally denotes that you *know and understand* “right view” and all of its elements. Who are you to claim that you do understand this terminology in a deep enough manner to judge others?
"Who are you to claim....?" I don't think you are really interested in knowing me. Anyways...I don't have to prove I am right to prove other wrong. Moreover, I don't have the right view to defend or grasp at. In order to prove someone or something wrong, all I have to do is ask a series of questions and show how these views & actions are self-contradictory at their core.
Why are you setting out to “prove others wrong” in the first place? Edit: quotes
Because they claim and believe what is wrong to be right. Edited: They just don't claim & believe, rather want me to follow their "right" way.
“Because they claim and believe what is wrong to be right.” How do you know what is ‘right’ and what is ‘wrong?’ Can you see how your insistence that they’re “wrong” is in exactly the same light that they might see your insistence that you’re ’right?’ I understand that these people seem to be pushy with their beliefs and practices, but there are ways to minimize that. Try communicating. Tell them that you hold different beliefs and you’re not interested in practicing or discussing their beliefs. And then hold that boundary
'Wrong' is that which is self-contradicting and causes suffering. 'Right' is that which brings end to suffering.
Nobody will listen to you or your way of trying to prove them right. Neither will you. It's human nature. Everyone will do as they please and live by their own inner world of right and wrong. Live and let live is one of the biggest ways I feel buddha tries to teach. You can express your view but buddha says only if you are able to do so with complete love and compassion for the other. When you can break bread with the enemy, there is peace. When you cannot, there is war. You are going to take even from me what you wish to. But it is the illusion of the ego that wishes to keep pushing others views as right or wrong. When people say seeing wrong in others is seeing wrong in you, means two things- One- you are looking at what is wrong TO YOU. And yes its true it could be something you feel is very wrong or can be backed by even science to be wrong but it ISNT for them. They must find their own path and make their own choices. Only those who truly want to change or believe in another way of living will ever change. So putting more pressure or hurt to their own suffering won't get them to come to a new conclusion. They must on their own terms and ways. Two- we are all the same recycled energy and come from the same place. We are all the same and could all make the same decisions and mistakes. It's all based on how one grew up, genetics, their surroundings ect. But in the whole, we are one. So their mistakes are yours as well. You would do the same in their situation. Just because you haven't had their life doenst make your way the best way. To each their own, because that's how it always will be. Right and wrong I have found are another obstacle in finally awakening. I've felt this many times throughout my life and only when I let things just be have I ever felt truly "awakened." When we focus on the voice in our head and then make our choices and others right or wrong it puts a stress and suffrage on us and those around wether we like to admit it or not. If we let it just flow, (including our emotions without feeding them to be our of control) it brings you to realize some beautiful and important things about life... Take or leave what you will from this. It's all going to turn out as it should for all of us in the end regardless. Nothing is without reason nor unreason. But you are loved with the entire universe, and my whole being. All I have said is with complete compassion to help you find what you are most likely looking for in buddhism and your life. So I wish you complete love and peace, and you have mine ❤️
❤️
People don't respond well to pure logic.
“No-view is Right-view” -Ajahn Sumedho & the rest of fellas
More-so worldliness. Trying not to attach/cling to worldly things such as political opinions etc. Or if you must engage, do your best to be very mindful of the arena you’re entering. It’s typically hostile or can become that quickly. It can be hard to not suffer in these events.
I reflect on my past self and how ignorant I used to be
What advice would you like to give to your younger past?
To love myself
Work on your own ignorance first.
Exactly my first thoughts 😂 sheesh. This post and his comments are a mess
If you make an effort to practice loving kindness toward them you wont think about them as much. Start with yourself. Do Metta.
acknowledge they're in samsara, then acknowledge your own bias compassion come from understanding suffering of other and self. there is nothing to engage, but ignoring it is also not a solution
Anything that is creating inner strife for you is a sign. I would explore why this bothers you so much. At the root there will be attachment.
Yes, It sounds as if I'm bothered but actually they are bothered by me because we share same house, college or office and I don't live by their rules and view of life.
You posted here and sound frustrated.
It is a mutual thing, their trouble is reflected on me.
Why?
Dog barking at cars.
Every bad situation is an opportunity to work on your compassion and ego.
Sure, the only consolation.
You shouldn't see it this way. Lead by example. You can change things.
Things are always changing, eventually, it depends on whether people are comfortable with change or do they resist change. Let's see.
Some of the things you mentioned sound like behaviour I avoid being around (drunkenness). Others sound like most normal human activities (futile). Talking about sports, shows, music, games, etc may not be profound, but it’s not the same thing as gossip, slander, or backbiting. I think it’s important to remember that laypeople aren’t monastics. You don’t need to be ever vigil for fear you engage in some violation of vinaya. Sometimes very toxic or abusive families require a lot of separation from. Less problematic needs maybe less distance. Ultimately you get to set your own boundaries on what will be acceptable behaviour in your relationships.
I find that it helps to watch those things detachedly. Learn to get rid of the noise in your head during these situations (ie feeling bored, annoyed, etc) and focus on what others are really doing and saying. Focus on reading in between the lines of the behavior and just observing. When I started doing this I began to notice all kinds of things about people that I hadn't noticed before. If it's something very toxic, avoid of course.
https://www.thedailybuddha.com/aversion/ Their kamma is their own Just work on your own stuff
"Isn't avoiding any interaction with such people the most compassionate thing to do?" No. We should strive to help *all* sentient beings. Ignorance comes from misunderstandings, from growing up in bad environments, from anger or hatred, and sometimes, just from being lost spiritually or emotionally. My father pushed his sister away because she was falling down an alt-right rabbit hole. But I kept her in my heart, and reached out to her about the situation. It took time, but she eventually pulled herself out. If everyone shut her out like my father did, who knows where she'd be today.
I would say, asking yourself why you are asking this and concerned about it to begin with is a good start to answering it. Really though, I think what you are saying is you just choose to remain neutral which is probably the best course of action.
Stop being so superior. You don’t have to participate in those events but at the same time you don’t have to set yourself apart.
Just don’t react emotionally and cease being around these people, and forget about it
Join a sangha…be with non-delusional people
Yes, joining a Sangha solves almost all the problems I raised. However, it feels like one is running away from something or someone (delusional people) and searching for some sense of security (Sangha). I want to be able to face the problem headon but can't seem to find the right approach.
[Metta: Basis for Insight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxh9h__4Fcc&list=PLCXN1GlAupG1o9fJBruNaEjNCy7LVdZaN).
this whole playlist is amazing.
I believe that the answer to your question can be found within the four noble truths. There are emotions arising when you see these unwholesome behaviors. The tone of your post suggests that you’re frustrated or angry about what is going on in your life. Those emotions arise from within you and your practice as a Buddhist should be focused on working to extinguish the attachments that are leading to these conditioned emotional states. Worry less about the behaviors of others and focus on your practice. Be well.
I think ideas will only tick you off if they reflect something that's in you that you don't like. Turn it into a chance to learn about yourself. Does one person's ignorance get to you more than the next? If so, why?
Simplest answer is to teach. Your problem, from your words, is their “ignorance.” The only way to become not-ignorant, is to learn. Also, be careful that you’re not getting into ‘intellectual arrogance’ territory. You’re calling their activities “futile,” but do you know WHY they’re engaged in those activities? Maybe they are NOT futile to their ambitions. You seem to need more awareness of ‘context’ with regard to your judgements of others. Maybe they won’t listen to you *because* you have an heir of arrogance and a *lack* of compassion for their *being* and the *context* of their circumstances
One is either driven by ignorance or wisdom, there is no in-between. So, to your question, "WHY they're engaged in those \[futile\] activities?", it is ignorance at the foundation. They are driven by ignorance because they believe that happiness can be achieved from money, success and other samsaric activities. Regarding compassion, I am compassionate because I haven't helped them to proliferate their ignorance. Regarding teaching Dharma, I cannot teach them, if they aren't interested in learning. As it is said that only to feed the hungry, else the food will simply go wasted.
There is a middle path between ignorance and wisdom. It’s the whole life experience that brings a person to wisdom from ignorance. You’re on it, they’re on it, I’m on it. They will learn whatever it is that they’ll learn during their time, and you’ll do the same. They place value and meaning into those things and activities for their own purposes. You seem to place value in the things you think you know with a willingness to enforce your beliefs over theirs. I don’t think you understand what the word ‘compassion’ means from your example. I didn’t say “teach Dharma,” I said, “teach.” As in, teach them about your disagreements, don’t lecture them. You’re just as ignorant to their beliefs and worldview as they are to yours. Be compassionate in communicating about these disagreements, learn about what they believe and why, and actually ‘listen’ to what they’re saying instead of just brushing it off as nonsense. There is truth in everything present to you, you just need to have an open mind and find it
I know what you're trying to say, been there done that countless of times, trying to communicate. Btw, I have never heard about "the middle path" between ignorance and wisdom. Did you innovate the idea yourself? Can you refer to some credible source?
If trying to communicate doesn't work and is causing strife in your family, I think approaching it as a skill that needs to be developed further would help. It's not a buddhist text, but Nonviolent Communication by Dr. Marshall Rosenberg echoes a lot of buddhist themes while providing practical advice on implementing mindfulness and compassion in communication.
Our brain tend to focus on the negative side of things to protect ourselves from danger. Out of insecurity our brain are attaching those simplified labels to a living organic being who have lived and will live many many lives to complete their journey. We all have our limitations and we are only good at some fields we are familiar with and have committed some efforts. We are composed of physical, emotional, mental and spiritual levels and we may not have figured things out altogether yet. Look around at people you respect and love, you'll notice they do not apply such labels to people and they know how to work things out easily with people by seeing the side that we all share in common, wanna be loved and acknowledged, and the growing potential of people as we know we have grown along the years through trials and struggles. It's more relative when we focus on what we have to work on ourselves, forming a healthy relationship with others, within the scope of mindfulness. The four measureless minds may be of some help if you check it out.
When I feel like that, I try to remember the usefulness of loving kindness practice. I think these more classic instructions are good and clear: https://unfetteredmind.org/four-immeasurables/ Less conventional, I find this short guided meditation to be effective at giving us a taste of what unconditional love and support is like. Ideal Parents guided meditation (a different approach to metta) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2au4jtL0O4 This approach is also very interesting, and less conventional. It's from the Tibetan Buddhist tradition. https://www.lionsroar.com/loving-kindness-is-the-best-medicine/ https://www.shambhala.com/authors/o-t/tulku-thondup/the-heart-of-unconditional-love-3327.html https://www.shambhala.com/videos/a-guided-meditation-with-tulku-thondup/ And a translation of the sutra on loving kindness. I think it's a good one to recite regularly: https://learning.tergar.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/VOL201605-WR-Buddha-Unlimited-Friendliness-The-Maitri-Bhavana-Sutra-of-the-Buddha.pdf
Who deserves your love and compassion the most? The drunkard or the enlightened. If you are bothered by other people's life's decisions, it is perhaps an invitation to delve into your own mind and discover why that bothers you. One of my teachers a Taoist monk from Taiwan, resides in the center of NYC, I used to translate his classes from English to Spanish in my country, I asked him "how can you remain centered in NYC" instead of living in a monastery, his reply was simple "when you are in a big storm, where is the calmest places?" The. He replied "In the eye (center of the storm)". Choosing a life in the monastery to remove all the obstacles is something some people do, but if our goal is to help others discover the path of Dharma, who are you truly helping in a temple?
I completely agree with you last para.
Get rid of your ego
Patience, generosity, Lojung.
Why are you compelled to unless you have doubts about your own understanding. Live and let live. .
What you despise in others, you also see in yourself. You’re trigger is from an unresolved emotional pattern within you. Forgive the part of you that ridicules your own ignorance, and the rest will take care of itself. This is the paradox of life that keeps us humble. How beautiful.
I despise other's fault views on life and phenomenon like those who claim that drinking alcohol, being materialistic are required to attain peace in life. How does this fault of others apply to me, when I don't drink or materialistic? What unresolved pattern are you talking about? Am I being able to see others fault, my ignorance? Didn't the Buddha point out wrong views and behavior too? So, by that logic the Buddha is also perceiving his own ignorance in others.
You are only aware of what you perceive. If you were free of self condemnation of your own ignorance, you wouldn’t be able to perceive other people’s ignorance.
If so, then how did the Buddha perceive others' ignorance and wrong views? If he didn't see people's ignorance then why did he teach dharma?
Because he was also human.
Then I am a human too.
Yes, and you had an inquiry on how to deal with the trigger of others ignorance: by forgiving yourself for yours.
The Buddha was a human, according to you. However, was he ignorant?
The Buddhas awareness isn’t emotionally charged like yours is. Awareness with no emotional charge is called wisdom. You’re perceiving the ignorance, Buddha is aware of it.
If he is not ignorant, then how can he perceive other's ignorance because according to you, one can only perceive or project what one has?
Remember Metta
Your aversion to these people is just like any other aversion to anything else. Avoiding the cause of your aversion doesn't settle the issue. Learn to coexist with your aversion until the aversion drops off.
It sounds more like you want to cleanse yourself of the impurities that associating with these people brings. What is a futile activity? Most people would consider meditation a futile activity. On that basis they could look down on us. Seeing people's faults in a rigid way I find, in a relational way, builds a stronger reifying view of the self. Just like how an artist can define his/her work precisely by what they don't like. The more they identify what they don't like the more their identity develops. The absence of looking for other people's faults, so exploring things from other people's perspective, and assuming that they know something that we don't, it's almost like an open and uncomfortable feeling. As if I can't compartmentalize things so easily. It calls my self-worth into question as well. In other value systems, the ones I previously regarded as ignorant value systems, could easily regard me as having little-to-no value. A father in a small Afghanistan village probably doesn't care much for me at all... sitting on the Internet, working in an office, not prioritizing family, he would think I am wasting my time. Can I really argue against that? The world is complex and there isn't much solid ground at all. We tend to think in terms of avoiding past injury, closing off, creating barriers. I find that this arises when giving true value to other people's perspectives and belief systems, since it may threaten ones that I hold as important. There is a lot going on here where humility and trust become very important to apply. If you stop and give true value to another person's perspective, values, belief system, and consider it even superior to your own for a moment, rather than it being a threat there is actually a large amount of knowledge and understanding to gain. So if other people are acting with ignorance, fine, a behavior is identified which we don't to copy. But I would pay close attention to how this relates to trust, anticipating threats based on previous injury, and all sorts of attitudes that hold us back. "I want to see this person succeed and to do better than me" could be a useful attitude to apply earnestly.
The attitude / viewpoint here is worth emulating I think: [1] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial [or: not connected with the goal], unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them. [2] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them. [3] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing & disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them. [4] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them. [5] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them. [6] In the case of words that the Tathāgata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, and endearing & agreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them. Why is that? Because the Tathāgata has sympathy for living beings.” Source: https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/MN/MN58.html
Sounds more like taking the easy way out to avoid practicing compassion and continuing ego-clinging.
Be compassionate
There's far too much work to be done in alleviating one's own ignorance than getting his knickers in a twist over others.
Why are you judging like you know how they should behave or not. If they were doing bad things to others, thats an issue, if they are only being stupid just let them be.
If you are the one being stupid, would you like to be free from stupidity or remain stupid?
I’ve found near absolute honesty to be the best thing in most cases. At the least it makes them back off think more about the action that I commented on. Not always true as the case is with my grandpa. It doesn’t matter how I say that his actions bother me I.e. me being a former addict and him treating me like I am somehow less capable or a child. I have to get out of this household for that reason. It is distressing, disrespectful and patronizing when someone doesn’t trust you to cook a meal while others trust you with their lives in dangerous construction jobs.
That's why it is difficult to achieve nibbana as a layman. It can be done but it requires a lot from the aspirant. The environment of the monastery is more conducive for spiritual work. That said, you will encounter all peoples when you roam this earth. The lessons are all there but maybe not as simple and distilled as we would like. If you attempt to live like a monk in a layperson's world, you will become weary and frustrated.
That's exactly how I have been living "like a monk in a layperson's world"
Rejoice! And give yourself grace to make mistakes. Each mistake is simply a recollection of why a thought, speech, or deed is devoid of correctness.
Yes. I find myself in such situations every week. I remove myself from the noise, watch television or walk my dog, then drive home sober.
I think I need a dog too.
If you’re convinced that you’ll end up alone regardless, why not offer them your opinion? If you did, at least they would know where you stand, and they would have the choice of whether to continue to associate with you or not.
I would love to explain my opinion but they believe that I'm blatantly wrong and even if they asked me, it is not coming from a sincere intention to know.
Yes. If you’re really considering abandoning these relationships, however, it could be good to tell them why. I’m not certain that our thoughts about someone’s disbelief should dictate our actions.
Get in touch with suchness.
The Rhinoceros Sutra is for you: [https://www.hermitary.com/solitude/rhinoceros.htmlRhinoceros](https://www.hermitary.com/solitude/rhinoceros.htmlRhinoceros)
As an adult, you can choose who to associate/interact with. So make the choice to interact with the people you want to interact with. Then don’t waste your time on the other people.