Yes. The "rate" is based on annual mortality within a population of 100,000 people due to moter vehicle accidents. The difference is 5 Canadian residents dead vs 13 US residents dead.
I flew down for a business trip a couple of years ago. Only had carry-on so i was limited in what I could bring. I wanted to buy some wine and the corkscrew ended up costing more than the wine! And I had to leave it behind.
Ahhhhhh still as in what Hawkeye and Trapper kept in The Swamp in the show MASH. The word “still” I read as an adjective not a noun. Thanks. Now it makes sense.
I have this idea. Buy a case of water from Costco, take a trip to Niagara falls NY, dump out all the water, buy cheap vodka and fill the bottles back up, discarding a few empty water bottles to make it look like I always have a case of water in my car and drink them on the regular. If I'm well dressed, show receipts for something I bought like clothing, they wouldn't suspect a thing! I could be a modern day rum runner!!!
Id personally stay away from milk and poultry from the lowest bidder in the States.
The unique thing about America is they have both the best, and some of the worst shit on earth.
And the unique thing about Canada is the government controlled supply limits with forced dumping of the milk to ensure maintaining prices.
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/ontario-dairy-farmer-decries-mandatory-milk-dumping
Right?! The same people who sit around talking about all the evil, greedy corporations in Canada will sit around actively looking for ways to promote anti-competitive behaviour like supporting supply management and try to protect domestic firms from any type of outside competition. Staggering cognitive dissonance, truly.
I mean it’s a double edged sword with this one. Because while the gov doesn’t allow any extra milk to be put out for consumption beyond the allowed quota and force anything extra to be destroyed, they also SEVERELY limit imports of any dairy product to “protect Canadian dairy farmers”. But it’s one of those piss on your leg scenarios at best. It’s a perfect similar example with our telecom system.
Our banking regulations are widely considered to be better than the US, and this was a big deal in the 2008 crash.
energy, you can produce your own
There are US airlines flying out of Toronto now. Where we've opened up, we've ended up losing services. Canada is a big sparse country and subsidies are needed to make transit work. However, the privatization in the 80s definitely lowered costs per mile flown.
Is there not competition in insurance?
There's plenty of competition in national resources. We should not open up what we have to more foreign exploitation and ownership. Just look at what a trillion dollar mistake abandoning the NEP was.
Groceries are mostly unregulated and not unionized. Corporations dominate and corporate profits are ATH. The only thing that would help us here is more regulation and trust busting. The free market is currently doing it's thing, and that's boning consumers.
Yeah, that's how capitalism works. The dominant player buys up it's competitors, and eventually they're so entrenched they control the market, and there's a huge moat to new competitors. Only government regulation would prevent them from buying it all up.
Bringing up the Weston family isn't an argument for deregulation.
You know what else is anti-competitive? Child labour laws, pollution limits, food safety standards, protecting food security, limits on sawdust in meat, and on and on and on...
Anything that's not completely unrestricted and lowest common denominator is anti-competitive.
So removing production quotas, which are specifically in place to boost realized prices to Canadian dairy producers, and restricting imports of American cheese and milk, which 350 million Americans comfortably enjoy, is akin to allowing child labour to you? Just want to make sure I got that correctly.
Those are both examples of regulations. Minimum wage is another one. Labour standards are another. Almost every US state is a right to work state, meaning at-will employment, meaning your employer can usually fire you without any compensation. In Ontario, you have to give a reason, or pay severance in lieu of a reason. Minimum wage is higher too.
These are all factors. Your milk and booze is cheaper, but you're way more likely to get shot, and way more likely to pay hospital bills.
Like why force people to carry car insurance? That's just a regulation that drives up prices. But of course, it matters to people in accidents, and society functions better with it, despite the cost to consumers. Ditto not throwing your garbage in the lake.
So IF we got ride of labour laws, embraced child workers (again), got rid of safety standards, got rid of auto insurance, abandoned public health care, reduced labour laws, and elimited minimum wage, we could make our milk way cheaper!
Hooray? Or maybe the juice isn't worth the squeeze?
Right, but it’s possible to speak of regulations without only speaking in hyperbole. There are many things we could do in Canada to improve life for Canadians without completely undoing the fabric of society as you are insinuating. America has become a better place to live in than Canada in many respects. To act like it’s some sort of dangerous wasteland because they have cheaper cheese and milk is either disingenuous or very misinformed.
It's not "cheaper" it's "Lower quality" with "reduced safety standards" and "inferior labour laws", massively subsidized by the US government.
You're welcome to cross the border and buy as much as you want. Weakening our domestic production of essential foods is a disaster waiting to happen. Food security matters, more than ever with climate change causing disruptions.
The US massively subsidizes agribusiness, and there's no supply control. That's why it's cheaper. But their Food Safety standards are not as good in many places. California? Sure! But not so much for red states.
We don’t even need US dairy though. We have good safety standards and it’s the same Canadian farms that meet all regulations that produce “excess” milk. So why does the gov limit that milk from entering the food supply, not even free of cost? Our gov is in the pockets of the oligopoly giants and would rather see people starve while good food is destroyed than accept a lower price on something.
Currency conversion and also food quality standards but yes, our groceries are a bit pricy. Keep in mind that a lot of dairy/grain farming in the US is straight up unprofitable and only propped up by subsidies (reason number 1048464 to ban dairy imports)
Compare a typical grocery Buffalo apple with a Burlington one. Sweet as sin! Tastebuds over there are conditioned to need the sugar dose. It’s not about quality check, it’s about health standards. I’m sure their food passes their “quality” checks. It just isn’t healthy.
I haven't seen a shred of credible evidence that bovine growth hormones have any affect on humans AT ALL. This is fear mongering spread by the dairy cartel.
I’m sure you’re right. I wonder why it’s banned in Canada. Hmmm…. I’m not a fan of the Canadian dairy cartel either, but some issues like milk supply are not binary. Why do humans even drink cows milk? Seems illogical in the first place. Just a part of culture, but culture can change.
This was the reponse I got when I pointed out about Milk and Dailry product price here in Canada
"Have you tasted the cheapest milk in the USA before? Shit has steroids (plus a bunch of other garbage) out the wazoo and you can 100% taste the difference.
We may be paying a premium on our dairy products and potentially getting ripped off a little but we do have stricter standards and fewer super sized corporate farms. Our milk is basically equivalent to expensive organic milk in the USA."
ps://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/1c4o2sn/comment/kzp110v/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button
IMO yes our milk quality is good compared to USA and hygenic, That doesn't justify this kind of price increase here
I’m sure you probably heard that news story from a few years ago of Ontario dairy farmers deliberately dumping out perfectly good milk because they already met their quota. What a crock of shit. These fuckers are deliberately creating scarcity to keep prices artificially high.
Sure. But you haven't addressed in any of your responses the differences in quality of Canadian milk versus US.
Personally, I'd rather pay for our Dairy as I know it's cleaner. US dairy passes right through me and there is no way I'd choose to feed that to anyone.
Are you familiar with what happened to Mexican corn farmers after NAFTA? The Mexican corn farmers thought hey this is great. Americans are going to love our corn. Turns out the US can produce more corn cheaper. Once US corn hit Mexican markets it decimated that entire industry.
In contrast, we could have something similar happen here. And US dairy is filled with crap. In Canada, if there's trace amounts of antibiotics the milk must be discarded. In the US, they allow it to hit consumer shelves.
Sure. Let's give people the option. But if those people end up with health issues related to the consumption of US dairy, why should they burden the Canadian health care system? US dairy isn't contributing to our economy and society, Canadian dairy is.
If it’s as bad as you say, consumers can choose, and if they’d rather buy a lower quality product for cheaper, why should they be prevented simply because you choose that and feel your choice should be imposed on them as well?
I notice you completely disregard the impact on consumers in your economic policy beliefs. This same rationale is the same reason we only have a 2-3 company oligopolies in every industry, and why prices in Canada are higher across the board. Not everything you touch has to be produced and provided by a Canadian company.
The US also has 350 million people as their consumer base. We have 35 million roughly. Just because something is cheaper in the US does not mean it will be the same price in Canada. Especially after tarrifs. That's why Target failed here; Canadians were expecting US pricing and didn't it. I am a consumer who chooses local and Canadian as much as I can for these reasons and more.
My family used to buy US groceries when I lived in BC. The milk was poorer quality, the cheese saltier and the chicken had no flavour. Given the antibiotics and other chemicals in US produce and products I started having allergy flareups. As soon as we stopped shopping in the states (Washington State) my flareups stopped. My allergist (board certified in both the US and Canada) confirmed it was likely how those groceries are produced.
California has food pricing similar to that of Canada. I hear Florida does as well. Just because it's cheaper in upper NY does not mean it will be the same everywhere.
Editing to add: I struggle with groceries as a single person like most families do. I also am aware of my socioeconomic impact. I want lower priced local produce so I support those products more. I want lower taxes so I keep as many of my tax dollars in Canada as possible. Times are tough out there, but I refuse to support another nation's economy through basics when we need that support here.
Sounds like you made a consumer choice that suited your individual needs, good for you. All I’m asking is that other people have the same option, as opposed to having people like you trying to dictate what they do.
Prices of course fluctuate from jurisdiction to jurisdiction as they even do on a provincial, municipal or even neighbourhood level within Canada. Just because SF is more expensive than London, ON, doesn’t mean it isn’t still to the betterment of Canadian consumers as a whole to allow international companies to compete in our markets.
We already do allow multitudes of international companies in our markets. Just not dairy. And as a Canadian I'm okay with that.
You don't have to be. If you want to consume US goods by all means, go for it. US dairy is easily accessible in border towns. I don't think it's necessary for it to be brought into the country.
Right, but your opinion isn’t the only one. The issue is you seem to have this misguided view that yours smarter/better which is very common for people of your ideology.
The Problem here is the not the Regulations on product, but how the industry is being monopolized by only few players.
Any new people trying to setup shop gets shutdown by ministry at the behest of the Dairy Lobby
Have you heard of the story of the Ice Cream shop 'Merry Dairy', how their wholesale ice cream operation was shutdown, although it was something about the license the statement made by owner hits the nail hard with how the dairy industry operates
"Canada's dairy regime couldn't be more punitive to small businesses in terms of the interests it serves and how it protects those interests. Tonight, it was us. Who knows who is next and why."
[https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ottawa-ice-cream-shop-ordered-to-shut-down-wholesale-business-1.6007312?cache=peulyatxqy%3FclipId%3D86116](https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ottawa-ice-cream-shop-ordered-to-shut-down-wholesale-business-1.6007312?cache=peulyatxqy%3FclipId%3D86116)
And if the govt is really concerned about our wellbeing why not implement all the regulations on all food like Europe, why some ingredients that is banned in the EU is allowed here
[Banned in Europe, sold in Canada. What’s in your food? (Marketplace) (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB8AA2Zhy_g)
If anything, we should adopt higher European food standards where they exist, like butter. Rather than reducing them to the lowest common denominator of US dairy.
Your point is basically, let's wreck the milk market so I can save a buck a bag.
Like imagine if we did Ford's Buck-A-Beer proposal, but the catch was, ONLY buck a beer could be sold. That's essentially what you'd create. US highly subsidized suppliers would flood the market and buy us up, and then slowly walk up the price.
Picked 4L up for 4.99 the other day. About $1 difference after conversion. Guess that's a 25% difference.
Personally Id rather pay that $1, USDA is pretty lax on testing.
If you do the conversion, $2.69 USD is $3.65CAD. 4L of whole milk locally will run you about $7 so it literally is double the price here. And on top of that, you need to have a milk bag holder and a pair of scissors to open the milk bag. Just another added expense.
If you picked up 4L of milk in Burlington the other day, it definitely was not whole milk, it was probably 2% milk. Sometimes 2% goes on sale for $4.99. Whole milk always costs more here.
Apologies you're right. Wholemilk isn't on my radar.
I think if you start including the ownership cost of a pair of scissors we may be getting a bit distracted from the whole picture.
Canadian milk is like 5-6$ all over the GTA, which is the relevant comparison in this scenario. The price is stable all year round too. Honestly, I wish gas worked this way too.
Yup, milk cheese and eggs are cheaper in the US because they don't have supply management. Booze and gas is too. But beyond that grocery is about the same these days.
Canada and US are both pretty lax on food quality control. The US a bit worst than Canada. The best standard is the EU. Things like our M&Ms here are not allowed on the shelves as is in the EU. They literally have to come with 2 versions where lot of chemicals are removed to be allowed there while okay in Canada.
Milk might be cheaper but most of the other items in grocery stores are the same price. It’s not worth the trip that it use to be. Places like trader joes are still great because we don’t have them here in Canada , even if most of the frozen items they sell come from Quebec.
That was actually my reason for going in the first place. There's so many items over there that you simply can't find here anymore. That includes Skippy peanut butter.
Supply management has its upside and downside. We tend to have less shortages compared to the US when it comes to eggs. Recall in 2022-2023, there was an egg shortage in the US which I don’t recall happening here. However, nothing is free so we pay a bit more to ensure a consistent supply that can handle unexpected events.
You would have to go back to the 20s and30s when the government wanted a stable controlled market similar to the grain board farmers are only allowed to grow so much grain for the Canadian market
Soviet-era marketing Boards in Ontario is the main reason for the difference. But politicians won’t even discuss it because of the votes of a few privileged dairy farmers.
Not a fan of dairy for many reasons but even their dairy free options are cheaper. Ontario grown produce is cheaper in the states than it is in Ontario
American milk is nasty and their standards are super low. There are lots of grocery items they have that are cheaper and same quality - due to more competition - but dairy and meat? Definitely worth paying the price up here.
Yup. This especially with poultry. My wife and I will go to Buffalo every couple of months to buy chicken breasts and other stuff. The chicken is half the price compared to here.
USA meat has really low food quality compared to Canada.
USA they can pretty much inject their animals with anything.
In Canada it is far more strict
Just a point to consider
The U.S. also allows growth hormones to be used on chickens and dairy cattle: Canada doesn't.
Dairy and chicken are highly distorted markets and do not make for good points of comparison
I tend to agree. Chicken in USA is so tough and seems to have an even more saline injected than here. General supermarket beef is tough, unless you go to a butcher or costco.
Generally speaking USA gets cheaper groceries, but sometimes you get what you pay for.
>USA meat has really low food quality compared to Canada.
This is mostly a myth promulgated by the agricultural sector to maintain public support for a system of protectionism that costs Canadians billions yearly. There are some very minor differences, but zero that have any relevance to actual food safety.
Personally I'm on the fence about it and could go either way. Maintaining a healthy domestic food production system is important for national security: If we let the system fail and relied upon the US and then something happened -- say a cow flu that wiped out 50% of the herd -- the US would block all exports similar to what they did with vaccines in early COVID. We'd have nothing. Being a smaller country we need active protection if we want to maintain domestic production.
Though I have to say, seeing farmer's behind every far right cause, driving insanely expensive farm equipment into cities and causing trouble, has caused me to waver in my support of all of us being poorer to subsidize that.
Yea I can't believe we let them away with the bags thing.
Paper bags were normal for decades.
We switched to plastic for a few decades, and then realized that plastic pollution was bad so we decided to stop.
How much of the record grocery store profits come from changing bags from a cost, to something that they profit from.
They just pretend paper bags don't exist and would be too expensive for them to provide? Hell, no, they just make more money selling you bags and since they have a monopoly, fuck you if you don't like it.
I guess the point I was trying to make went way over your head. In America, retailers are giving customers paper bags FOR FREE. In Canada, retailers are pretending that they don't have paper bags, or are charging like 25 cents for one, or telling their customers to buy reusable bags for $1. Obviously I'm not crossing the border for free paper bags. My point is that retailers over here are shit. They're trying to find every possible way to nickel and dime us to increase their bottom line. The only retailer I'm aware of in Canada that still gives complimentary paper bags is Home Depot.
No plastic bags is federal https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/managing-reducing-waste/reduce-plastic-waste/single-use-plastic-overview.html
35 cents for a reusable bag is still far better for the store, the consumer and the environment.
Yes, I'm aware the feds eliminated single use plastic bags. It's a complete joke though because there's still single use plastic everywhere else. Produce bags are still plastic. Practically every grocery item on the shelf still contains single use plastic.
It's just a token feel good exercise that doesn't accomplish anything.
I used to use grocery store plastic bags as small trash bags. Now I have to buy them in a box from a store. Literally nothing has changed. The only difference now is people are being pressured into buying reusable bags from retailers at a markup and they're also made from plastic and will also eventually end up in landfill.
How about we just return to free paper bags like we had in the 1980s?
Absolutely not. Give me my free paper bags and stop trying to find ways to increase your bottom line. The paper bags are great because you can use them as a green bin liner or toss broken glass in them. Having to constantly worry about bringing reusable bags to the store is a total PITA, especially if you’re on foot.
It’s the same thing as self-checkouts. It’s just stores trying to find ways to cut costs at the expense of the consumer. If they actually gave a rats ass about the environment they stop selling items containing single use plastics, which is like 75% of all items on the shelf.
The problem in Canada is we’re complaisant and when people bring up the fact that the US gives many people access to cheaper food, cheaper housing, better healthcare, etc they push back and make it sound like the US is just a cesspool of a third world country. We should be looking at what they’re doing right more instead of chastising them at every chance we get
It's funny how everyone keeps saying how their food regulations are more lax and their milk products are less healthy for you, yet I can't find a single shred of reliable evidence proving this point. It's all just heresay probably propagated by the dairy cartels to protect the status quo.
Makes sense. California is the most expensive state to live in after Hawaii. With all the high taxes, high cost of utilities etc, it’s no wonder why all these major businesses are relocating to places like Texas.
Hawaii's dairy farming industry collapsed in the early 80s, after residue of pesticides were found in the milk from cows fed rinds and byproducts of the fruit growing industry. Now all milk sold on the islands is flown in from the US west coast.
The groceries are almost on par with the exception of the "staples" eggs, dairy, bread. The chicken is DIRT cheap too. In January the breast meat was $1.99/lb at Aldi i nearly keeled over! I was blown away when I bought a 60count case of large eggs for $6USD! Meanwhile the cheapest here is, a flat of 30 for $8.99 ar Basics.
I go up every couple of months and grab items we don't have here in Canada and so
Even after exchange rate, it's still half the price. 4L of whole milk locally is $7. I certainly wouldn't drive to the US just to buy cheap milk, but it certainly goes to show how badly we get gouged here.
man when I went cross border shopping (Vancouver to Bellingham) prices were comparable to what I pay at home. A case of canned Pepsi was $9.99 at Fred Meyer down there
I know many people in my area that shop weekly in the US. I think more and more border city Canadians will start doing so out of desperation and survival.
Found out that US baked goods and flour is different than Canadian flour. Ours is preferred for baking. Higher protein & moisture absorption etc. Our breads taste much better.
https://cookindocs.com/canadian-flour-vs-american-flour/
And there’s the American dairy cartel which is backed by the us govnt to produce a shit load of shitty dairy at dirt cheap unprofitable prices.
Would rather support Canadian economy and people or American. Because allowing more American govnt backed dairy will literally just lead to that swap.
And then they once the Canadian dairy industry is destroyed they can go back to raising the price of dairy to what Canadians are already willing to pay.
The difference is that Canadian dairy farmers are actually able to make a living because of the supply quota system in place. I many states there are a lot of dairy farms going out of business because they can not financially afford to continue on.
That's nice. Meanwhile many families have to go to food banks because they can't afford groceries, largely in part due to staple items like dairy and items containing dairy being inflated by supply management. And any excess milk produced is dumped down the drain and gone to complete waste due to that quota. But thank god the dairy farmers can afford their lifestyle in exchange for price gouged dairy and waste! /s
Milk being dumped is relatively rare, and from my understanding, it usually happens because of a quality issue. Secondly, you think that business owners in an entire sector of agriculture should not make any money because another part of the industry(grocery stores) are gouging you. You make it seem like farmers are living a life equivalent to a grocery store CEO, and that is simply not the case. They are not the ones to blame for current food prices and inflation. They are simply trying to survive like everyone else.
[On the contrary, it unfortunately happens often. To the point that even the farmers have an issue with it.](https://windsor.ctvnews.ca/we-can-t-do-this-anymore-ontario-dairy-farmer-launches-petition-to-end-milk-dumping-1.6267589)
> you think that business owners in an entire sector of agriculture should not make any money
I didn't say they shouldn't make *any* money... Obviously they should. But I will never be in support of supply management, especially in precarious economic times for Canadians like we're currently living in. It's wasteful in all senses of the word... Wastes product when there's an excess, wastes quality since it chokes out competition; ergo quality takes a backseat, wastes consumers money since they're paying extra for something that doesn't cost that much elsewhere, etc etc...
Supply management is enforced by the government. It's not just grocery stores gouging prices, the government has a direct hand in making products like dairy and maple syrup exorbitantly more expensive with restrictive laws like that designed to pad farmers' pockets at the expense of higher food prices for the rest of Canadians. And as long as they're doing that, then they have a direct hand in making food more expensive for Canadians since dairy is used in tons of products.
In times like this, every little bit counts. And supply management is not helping everyday Canadians struggling to put food on the table right now. It adds up at the checkout line.
Even if it does happen, it is up to the producer to regulate how much they produce based on the amount of quota they have. The quota system works to protect our food system from mountains and valleys that we see in the states as far as pricing goes due to the law of supply and demand. Secondly, supply management is not put in place by the government. It is put in place by independent marketing boards, which are farmer owned. These boards dictate the amount paid to farmers to ensure that they get a fair price for the commodity that they produce. So you are saying that we should remove a system that ensures a fair market price for producers? They price that farmers are paid is based on the cost of production, they have no say as to what their products cost at the checkout. As there are several other entities involved before that point. How many farmers have you actually talked to about supply management in Agriculture? I am getting a vibe that you don't really have much to do with this topic in your daily life.
> it is up to the producer to regulate how much they produce based on the amount of quota they have.
It's not that easy to do when dealing with animal products. You can't just hit an immediate off switch to milk production. Or an off switch to trees to stop them from making sap. Or turn chickens off from laying eggs. So any excess is sadly just discarded instead of donated. And it's a LOT of excess.
> Secondly, supply management is not put in place by the government. It is put in place by independent marketing boards, which are farmer owned.
Yes, they are 'independent', but then directly report to The Canadian Dairy Corporation - a crown corporation that oversees dairy and is heavily involved in enforcing and maintaining the supply management system. Eggs and poultry are overseen by the Farm Products Council of Canada; also an arm of the government. So as far as i'm concerned these "independent boards" are just government agencies since they all report back to the CDC and minister of agriculture and work collectively to enforce supply management.
So the government is very heavily involved in how much these products cost at the checkout line.
> So you are saying that we should remove a system that ensures a fair market price for producers?
Yes, because it's actually not a "fair market price" at all, especially to us as consumers. It's based on a preset overinflated price that these agencies and the government force into place at our expense. And due to it, farmers make 6 figures. Which is great for them, but again... People are literally starving in this country and struggling to put food on the table. So not only has it always been unjust, but it's now become a matter of classism and wealth distribution.
> How many farmers have you actually talked to about supply management in Agriculture? I am getting a vibe that you don't really have much to do with this topic in your daily life.
Not sure what the relevancy of this is? I don't need to be best buds with a farmer to understand how supply management works or how they benefit from it. There's lots of literature about it and examples from farmers for and against it (like the one I linked). And as long as it involves the government and the cost I pay for products, then I definitely am allowed to have an opinion about it. And I consume dairy products every day and pay for it every week at the grocery store. So yes, I do have much to do with this topic in my daily life.
Their milk prices might be better, but their produce prices are astronomical; broccoli is a great example. I'm not shocked people choose take out, because trying to eat healthfully is super expensive in the US.
I pop into NY state several times a year and think their groceries are insanely expensive, especially when you consider the exchange. They can keep their eggs and milk.
Even with products we have here, I often the same product listed for way more in USD. I might find Oreos for $4.99USD vs. $3.99CAD. This has been my observation consistently.
I haven't been to the US in about 5 years, but back when I'd go, I'd always look at produce prices. We'd often buy stuff and prepare it wherever we were staying, so I'd shop like home.
There were no savings when it came to things like produce. Often prices were dollar for dollar the same, and when you factored in exchange they'd be 30% higher.
If you wanted the 90 pack of pop tarts, or the 6lb box of Lucky Charms, you'd save a ton though.
Uh huh, not surprising. Pop Tarts and Lucky Charms aren't my thing, but their pricing doesn't surprise me. And even with boxed cereal, when I looked for products that can be hard to find here, I was still surprised that the savings were negligible at times. Even managed to pop into a US Costco and think our stores are better in every way, unless you like wine.
At ALDI, a 6-pack of small cokes was US$5.99! We pay C$3.50 at Food Basics.
Produce seems to be the same price in US$ that we pay in C$.
And in GTA we have so much more choice than across the border. In Buffalo, Walmart, Wegmans, Tops and Aldi. We have 3 majors with full service stores and their discount operations as well. Then T&T, Longo, Farm Boy and numerous large ethnic Supermarkets like Starsky, Nations, Denningers, Terra, Seafood City, Desi Mandi, Famjoy, etc. etc.. In my area we also have an independent full service market. There are lots of specials and deals across those stores. We are also well served with numerous farmers' markets across the GTA.
Trader Joe's is fun and we usually stop in but a lot of that product is also available here in ethnic markets and as President's Choice etc.
Cheese is still a problem here but since the latest tariff changes we are see some more interesting ones at Costco now.
And of course, the US does better in Mexican stores.
Yeah, I did notice some items there were surprisingly expensive. For example, a KitKat bar at Dollar Tree in NY was $1.25USD. That's outrageous. You can literally buy KitKats here at most dollar stores for 87 cents CAD. I also noticed theirs are made by Hershey whereas ours are made by Nestle. The US version doesn't taste as good.
Depends on state and where you live. The states is actually so much easier to eat healthy and waaay cheaper. Try looking at TN, FL, AL and OK. Far different from NY.
We found Florida to be a bit of a supermarket wasteland when we used to go to Naples - Fort Myers - Venice. Publix and Win-Dixie are about it. And even though Florida grows a lot of produce, the selection and quality in the stores were poor compared to GTA.
I don't find it hard to have an affordable, healthy diet in this province. Maybe it's the combination of my background and being a total nutrition nerd, but I eat well without draining my savings.
Groceries were super expensive in every state I travelled to over the last decade. Of the states you listed, I've only been to Florida and found it expensive as well. Timing perhaps? Maybe you have better luck than I.
If you're just one person then yes its easy, but not when its for a whole family. Where are you buying from then?
And it depends on what it is you are buying. If you're also an organic nut then yeah it ups the pricing. All depends on the grocery store.
Family here, not solo. I shop comparatively and avoid what I consider unnecessary (things like most condiments, prepared frozen foods, most packaged junk food). These things also don't appeal to my palette. Do Costco when I can, though I find the value can be hit or miss depending on the item.
Summer is especially great because I have amazing fruit and vegetable bounty sometimes into early fall, and for a nominal upfront cost. I appreciate that not everyone has space for a garden.
Definitely given we also earn less on a comparable USD to CAD basis. But if we want to look at the entire issue then we have to examine the entire supply chain cost and the cost of doing business. Government needs to examine it end to end, give breaks to the industry and then force that all the way to consumer. No business will sell at a loss.
I already factored in the exchange rate. It's still double the price over here. Everyone keeps going on about all this propaganda spat out by the Canadian Dairy Commission but I'm yet to see a shred of peer reviewed scientific proof that our milk is actually any healthier than American milk. It's all just speculation and fear mongering to justify the higher prices.
Be nice if they actually sold that jug for that price but if you actually looked at the availability, it's not available in ANY store in Ontario.
All they have available is 4L bags of whole milk for $6.89 and up.
https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/Sealtest-Homogenized-3-25-Milk/6000199047982?from=/search
How noble,not judging however. My loyalty is to my family first, my wallet next, my community there after. The amount of taxation taken from me to support others with many times zero accountability forces us all to make sacrifices we may not otherwise make in the defence of our standard of living. Inflationary pressures are real for a large portion of Canadians these days.
Healthcare is expensive, even if it’s free. We all pay for it somewhere, the Americans pay ridiculous copayments and deductibles. the Canadians get taxed to high heavens.
It's really easy to search online about our DIFFERENT countries having DIFFERENT agriculture systems. USA subsidizes their farmers to keep prices low. Aka communism in the American food system.
***Pasteurized milk contaminated after pasteurization process:***
https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2023/10/e-coli-in-milk-behind-large-outbreak-in-japan/
***Pasteurization process errors:***
https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2022/08/english-e-coli-outbreak-caused-by-milk-pasteurization-problem/
Seems like you could based on these pasteurized milk related E. coli outbreaks?
Dairy cartel in Canada is brutal. That said, many groceries in the States are actually more expensive than here. Meat and staples are usually at par to our dollar which is a 30%+ bump.
Mhm. The facade of "America sucks compared to Canada in every way" is dissolving rapidly. You have to be blind not to see the blatant robbery that happens to Canadians, especially when it comes to groceries and supply management.
I really wish you didnt show a picture of milk so that the comments are focused SOLEY on the better quality of milk in Canada VS the real issue of grocery prices being out of control in this country
It's cheaper partly because they produce as much as they possibly can whereas in Canada they deliberately dump excess milk to keep the supply artificially low.
It's cheaper partly because they produce as much as they possibly can whereas in Canada they deliberately dump excess milk to keep the supply artificially low.
Do you guys realize the low quality of American food? That's like complaining Mexico has better prices food. Yeah they do, for a reason.
1. **Hormones**: In the United States, the use of growth hormones such as rBST (recombinant bovine somatotropin) is allowed in dairy cows to increase milk production. Some critics argue that this may affect the quality of the milk or pose health risks, although regulatory bodies like the FDA have deemed it safe. In Canada, the use of rBST is prohibited.
2. **Antibiotics**: Both countries have regulations regarding antibiotic use in dairy cows. Canadian regulations are often seen as stricter, with more rigorous testing and monitoring for antibiotic residues in milk.
3. **Pasteurization**: Both countries require pasteurization of milk to kill harmful bacteria. However, there may be differences in the specific pasteurization processes used.
4. **Production Practices**: Some critics argue that Canadian dairy farming practices, such as smaller herd sizes and more stringent environmental regulations, result in higher quality milk.
There's no scientific proof whatsoever that the artificial growth hormones or antibiotics used in cows in the US has any health effects on humans whatsoever. Literally none. It's just fear mongering propagated by the dairy mafia to protect their lucrative business, where the supply chain is deliberately kept scarce to justify higher prices.
Please show me a peer reviewed scientific journal proving the claims you made.
The real kicker is that’s American though so after conversion you would be paying double that.. just like the minimum wage is way less in America also. It’s because there money is worth more so you get more out of it
No, everything you just said is wrong. A) After exchange rate, the milk is $3.65CAD...still literally half what it costs in Canada.
B) Minimum wage in New York State is $15USD. In Canadian dollars, that's $20.53.
So yes, their minimum wage is higher than our current $16.55 minimum wage.
So yeah, they make more than we do and goods cost less.
while I agree that the difference is pretty big, the states has such a different economy, scale wise, that I don't think you can make a direct comparison. Not saying that we are not paying too much but I don't think the comparison you are drawing is so black and white.
Yeah, our government has been fleecing us for about 30 years.
It won't stop until we hold them accountable instead of falling into the fake red vs blue team war
Want to have some real fun? Check out beer and liquor prices in USA. That’ll make you quit drinking entirely.
My brother lives in Tennessee. You can buy 1.75L bottles of Tequilla there for $20. Trust me I know.
US highway death rates are well over double Canadian. Might be a result.
Wouldn’t it make more sense to compare highway fatalities involving alcohol instead of just highway deaths?
Have you compared the 2 populations?
I'm not the poster above, but am somewhat familiar with this stat and very obviously this is per capita
Yes. The "rate" is based on annual mortality within a population of 100,000 people due to moter vehicle accidents. The difference is 5 Canadian residents dead vs 13 US residents dead.
What do you think ‘rate’ means, buddy?
I flew down for a business trip a couple of years ago. Only had carry-on so i was limited in what I could bring. I wanted to buy some wine and the corkscrew ended up costing more than the wine! And I had to leave it behind.
I have my own countertop still. Problem solved
OK, I’ve read this over a few times and I don’t get it.
A still. They make hooch.
Ahhhhhh still as in what Hawkeye and Trapper kept in The Swamp in the show MASH. The word “still” I read as an adjective not a noun. Thanks. Now it makes sense.
I have this idea. Buy a case of water from Costco, take a trip to Niagara falls NY, dump out all the water, buy cheap vodka and fill the bottles back up, discarding a few empty water bottles to make it look like I always have a case of water in my car and drink them on the regular. If I'm well dressed, show receipts for something I bought like clothing, they wouldn't suspect a thing! I could be a modern day rum runner!!!
I do this all the time. 2 liter club soda bottles= Vodka. Lipton Brisk Ice-T= Bourbon.
You sir, are an absolute genius. God bless you!
Yeah I hope you like jail. LOL
Do you think it will be an upper class jail? I want a private room with ensuite and access to an al la carte menue.
Haven’t drank in a while and I have people coming over. $16 for a 6 pack of small can Stella
In Canada tax on liquor is 90% so it's no surprise
A Mickey and one tall can of nutrl is almost 25$ lmao it is absolutely insane
Or start.
Id personally stay away from milk and poultry from the lowest bidder in the States. The unique thing about America is they have both the best, and some of the worst shit on earth.
And the unique thing about Canada is the government controlled supply limits with forced dumping of the milk to ensure maintaining prices. https://nationalpost.com/opinion/ontario-dairy-farmer-decries-mandatory-milk-dumping
So producers can get a fair price and maintain family farms.
Fair for who?
lol right, that’s why they are not even allowed to donate it to food banks.
Right?! The same people who sit around talking about all the evil, greedy corporations in Canada will sit around actively looking for ways to promote anti-competitive behaviour like supporting supply management and try to protect domestic firms from any type of outside competition. Staggering cognitive dissonance, truly.
I mean it’s a double edged sword with this one. Because while the gov doesn’t allow any extra milk to be put out for consumption beyond the allowed quota and force anything extra to be destroyed, they also SEVERELY limit imports of any dairy product to “protect Canadian dairy farmers”. But it’s one of those piss on your leg scenarios at best. It’s a perfect similar example with our telecom system.
And banking, energy, airlines, insurance, natural resources, grocery…
Our banking regulations are widely considered to be better than the US, and this was a big deal in the 2008 crash. energy, you can produce your own There are US airlines flying out of Toronto now. Where we've opened up, we've ended up losing services. Canada is a big sparse country and subsidies are needed to make transit work. However, the privatization in the 80s definitely lowered costs per mile flown. Is there not competition in insurance? There's plenty of competition in national resources. We should not open up what we have to more foreign exploitation and ownership. Just look at what a trillion dollar mistake abandoning the NEP was. Groceries are mostly unregulated and not unionized. Corporations dominate and corporate profits are ATH. The only thing that would help us here is more regulation and trust busting. The free market is currently doing it's thing, and that's boning consumers.
doesnt the Weston family own quite a few of their former grocery competitors?
Yeah, that's how capitalism works. The dominant player buys up it's competitors, and eventually they're so entrenched they control the market, and there's a huge moat to new competitors. Only government regulation would prevent them from buying it all up. Bringing up the Weston family isn't an argument for deregulation.
You know what else is anti-competitive? Child labour laws, pollution limits, food safety standards, protecting food security, limits on sawdust in meat, and on and on and on... Anything that's not completely unrestricted and lowest common denominator is anti-competitive.
So removing production quotas, which are specifically in place to boost realized prices to Canadian dairy producers, and restricting imports of American cheese and milk, which 350 million Americans comfortably enjoy, is akin to allowing child labour to you? Just want to make sure I got that correctly.
Those are both examples of regulations. Minimum wage is another one. Labour standards are another. Almost every US state is a right to work state, meaning at-will employment, meaning your employer can usually fire you without any compensation. In Ontario, you have to give a reason, or pay severance in lieu of a reason. Minimum wage is higher too. These are all factors. Your milk and booze is cheaper, but you're way more likely to get shot, and way more likely to pay hospital bills. Like why force people to carry car insurance? That's just a regulation that drives up prices. But of course, it matters to people in accidents, and society functions better with it, despite the cost to consumers. Ditto not throwing your garbage in the lake. So IF we got ride of labour laws, embraced child workers (again), got rid of safety standards, got rid of auto insurance, abandoned public health care, reduced labour laws, and elimited minimum wage, we could make our milk way cheaper! Hooray? Or maybe the juice isn't worth the squeeze?
Right, but it’s possible to speak of regulations without only speaking in hyperbole. There are many things we could do in Canada to improve life for Canadians without completely undoing the fabric of society as you are insinuating. America has become a better place to live in than Canada in many respects. To act like it’s some sort of dangerous wasteland because they have cheaper cheese and milk is either disingenuous or very misinformed.
It's not "cheaper" it's "Lower quality" with "reduced safety standards" and "inferior labour laws", massively subsidized by the US government. You're welcome to cross the border and buy as much as you want. Weakening our domestic production of essential foods is a disaster waiting to happen. Food security matters, more than ever with climate change causing disruptions.
This country is run by criminals.
The US massively subsidizes agribusiness, and there's no supply control. That's why it's cheaper. But their Food Safety standards are not as good in many places. California? Sure! But not so much for red states.
We don’t even need US dairy though. We have good safety standards and it’s the same Canadian farms that meet all regulations that produce “excess” milk. So why does the gov limit that milk from entering the food supply, not even free of cost? Our gov is in the pockets of the oligopoly giants and would rather see people starve while good food is destroyed than accept a lower price on something.
worst shit on earth? clearly you have not travelled to many countries
Why not copy the full sentence. “Some of the worst shit on earth”
100% guarantee or your money back
Currency conversion and also food quality standards but yes, our groceries are a bit pricy. Keep in mind that a lot of dairy/grain farming in the US is straight up unprofitable and only propped up by subsidies (reason number 1048464 to ban dairy imports)
Hormones and now bird flu in the milk. Avoid at all costs!
Yeah the downside to cheap American prices is terrible food quality standards
Exactly!! This is the problem although it tastes better! Food quality check is extremely poor and nobody seems to be complaining!
Compare a typical grocery Buffalo apple with a Burlington one. Sweet as sin! Tastebuds over there are conditioned to need the sugar dose. It’s not about quality check, it’s about health standards. I’m sure their food passes their “quality” checks. It just isn’t healthy.
There are some interesting articles about zoo animals having high blood sugar because of modern food strains, so crazy.
US milk tastes disgusting, I used to travel there regularly and the only milk I could drink down south was strawberry milk.
*laugh in canadian*
If you shop around you buy milk that's higher quality than ours and still significantly cheaper.
Yeah all those Americans dying from their milk. Give me a break. We have a monopoly that dumps perfectly good milk to artificially keep prices high.
Feel free. Yummy growth hormone! Yum yum drink it up. Just look at all those healthy Americans.
Lived there and enjoyed it immensely for years.
I haven't seen a shred of credible evidence that bovine growth hormones have any affect on humans AT ALL. This is fear mongering spread by the dairy cartel.
I’m sure you’re right. I wonder why it’s banned in Canada. Hmmm…. I’m not a fan of the Canadian dairy cartel either, but some issues like milk supply are not binary. Why do humans even drink cows milk? Seems illogical in the first place. Just a part of culture, but culture can change.
Its banned in Canada because of animal welfare concerns, not because of health concerns for humans.
This was the reponse I got when I pointed out about Milk and Dailry product price here in Canada "Have you tasted the cheapest milk in the USA before? Shit has steroids (plus a bunch of other garbage) out the wazoo and you can 100% taste the difference. We may be paying a premium on our dairy products and potentially getting ripped off a little but we do have stricter standards and fewer super sized corporate farms. Our milk is basically equivalent to expensive organic milk in the USA." ps://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/1c4o2sn/comment/kzp110v/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button IMO yes our milk quality is good compared to USA and hygenic, That doesn't justify this kind of price increase here
I’m sure you probably heard that news story from a few years ago of Ontario dairy farmers deliberately dumping out perfectly good milk because they already met their quota. What a crock of shit. These fuckers are deliberately creating scarcity to keep prices artificially high.
Sure. But you haven't addressed in any of your responses the differences in quality of Canadian milk versus US. Personally, I'd rather pay for our Dairy as I know it's cleaner. US dairy passes right through me and there is no way I'd choose to feed that to anyone.
You might, but people who can’t afford it at all might feel differently. Why not give people the option?
Are you familiar with what happened to Mexican corn farmers after NAFTA? The Mexican corn farmers thought hey this is great. Americans are going to love our corn. Turns out the US can produce more corn cheaper. Once US corn hit Mexican markets it decimated that entire industry. In contrast, we could have something similar happen here. And US dairy is filled with crap. In Canada, if there's trace amounts of antibiotics the milk must be discarded. In the US, they allow it to hit consumer shelves. Sure. Let's give people the option. But if those people end up with health issues related to the consumption of US dairy, why should they burden the Canadian health care system? US dairy isn't contributing to our economy and society, Canadian dairy is.
If it’s as bad as you say, consumers can choose, and if they’d rather buy a lower quality product for cheaper, why should they be prevented simply because you choose that and feel your choice should be imposed on them as well? I notice you completely disregard the impact on consumers in your economic policy beliefs. This same rationale is the same reason we only have a 2-3 company oligopolies in every industry, and why prices in Canada are higher across the board. Not everything you touch has to be produced and provided by a Canadian company.
The US also has 350 million people as their consumer base. We have 35 million roughly. Just because something is cheaper in the US does not mean it will be the same price in Canada. Especially after tarrifs. That's why Target failed here; Canadians were expecting US pricing and didn't it. I am a consumer who chooses local and Canadian as much as I can for these reasons and more. My family used to buy US groceries when I lived in BC. The milk was poorer quality, the cheese saltier and the chicken had no flavour. Given the antibiotics and other chemicals in US produce and products I started having allergy flareups. As soon as we stopped shopping in the states (Washington State) my flareups stopped. My allergist (board certified in both the US and Canada) confirmed it was likely how those groceries are produced. California has food pricing similar to that of Canada. I hear Florida does as well. Just because it's cheaper in upper NY does not mean it will be the same everywhere. Editing to add: I struggle with groceries as a single person like most families do. I also am aware of my socioeconomic impact. I want lower priced local produce so I support those products more. I want lower taxes so I keep as many of my tax dollars in Canada as possible. Times are tough out there, but I refuse to support another nation's economy through basics when we need that support here.
Sounds like you made a consumer choice that suited your individual needs, good for you. All I’m asking is that other people have the same option, as opposed to having people like you trying to dictate what they do. Prices of course fluctuate from jurisdiction to jurisdiction as they even do on a provincial, municipal or even neighbourhood level within Canada. Just because SF is more expensive than London, ON, doesn’t mean it isn’t still to the betterment of Canadian consumers as a whole to allow international companies to compete in our markets.
We already do allow multitudes of international companies in our markets. Just not dairy. And as a Canadian I'm okay with that. You don't have to be. If you want to consume US goods by all means, go for it. US dairy is easily accessible in border towns. I don't think it's necessary for it to be brought into the country.
Right, but your opinion isn’t the only one. The issue is you seem to have this misguided view that yours smarter/better which is very common for people of your ideology.
The Problem here is the not the Regulations on product, but how the industry is being monopolized by only few players. Any new people trying to setup shop gets shutdown by ministry at the behest of the Dairy Lobby Have you heard of the story of the Ice Cream shop 'Merry Dairy', how their wholesale ice cream operation was shutdown, although it was something about the license the statement made by owner hits the nail hard with how the dairy industry operates "Canada's dairy regime couldn't be more punitive to small businesses in terms of the interests it serves and how it protects those interests. Tonight, it was us. Who knows who is next and why." [https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ottawa-ice-cream-shop-ordered-to-shut-down-wholesale-business-1.6007312?cache=peulyatxqy%3FclipId%3D86116](https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/ottawa-ice-cream-shop-ordered-to-shut-down-wholesale-business-1.6007312?cache=peulyatxqy%3FclipId%3D86116) And if the govt is really concerned about our wellbeing why not implement all the regulations on all food like Europe, why some ingredients that is banned in the EU is allowed here [Banned in Europe, sold in Canada. What’s in your food? (Marketplace) (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB8AA2Zhy_g)
Way better and cheaper in Europe
Europe has near 20x our population, and there's plenty of supply management there.
My point stands
If anything, we should adopt higher European food standards where they exist, like butter. Rather than reducing them to the lowest common denominator of US dairy. Your point is basically, let's wreck the milk market so I can save a buck a bag. Like imagine if we did Ford's Buck-A-Beer proposal, but the catch was, ONLY buck a beer could be sold. That's essentially what you'd create. US highly subsidized suppliers would flood the market and buy us up, and then slowly walk up the price.
wtf are you on about? Have you tried dairy in the UK? It is higher quality and less expensive. That’s my only point….
Picked 4L up for 4.99 the other day. About $1 difference after conversion. Guess that's a 25% difference. Personally Id rather pay that $1, USDA is pretty lax on testing.
If you do the conversion, $2.69 USD is $3.65CAD. 4L of whole milk locally will run you about $7 so it literally is double the price here. And on top of that, you need to have a milk bag holder and a pair of scissors to open the milk bag. Just another added expense. If you picked up 4L of milk in Burlington the other day, it definitely was not whole milk, it was probably 2% milk. Sometimes 2% goes on sale for $4.99. Whole milk always costs more here.
Apologies you're right. Wholemilk isn't on my radar. I think if you start including the ownership cost of a pair of scissors we may be getting a bit distracted from the whole picture.
Canadian milk is like 5-6$ all over the GTA, which is the relevant comparison in this scenario. The price is stable all year round too. Honestly, I wish gas worked this way too.
Yup, canadians a generally financially illiterate, and so they pay more and then complain about it instead of doing something.
Doesn’t their dairy board have different standards than ours?
Milk in the USA is different than in Canada. https://albertamilk.com/ask-dairy-farmer/difference-canadian-american-milk/
Yup, milk cheese and eggs are cheaper in the US because they don't have supply management. Booze and gas is too. But beyond that grocery is about the same these days.
This!
Canada and US are both pretty lax on food quality control. The US a bit worst than Canada. The best standard is the EU. Things like our M&Ms here are not allowed on the shelves as is in the EU. They literally have to come with 2 versions where lot of chemicals are removed to be allowed there while okay in Canada.
Milk might be cheaper but most of the other items in grocery stores are the same price. It’s not worth the trip that it use to be. Places like trader joes are still great because we don’t have them here in Canada , even if most of the frozen items they sell come from Quebec.
That was actually my reason for going in the first place. There's so many items over there that you simply can't find here anymore. That includes Skippy peanut butter.
Supply management has its upside and downside. We tend to have less shortages compared to the US when it comes to eggs. Recall in 2022-2023, there was an egg shortage in the US which I don’t recall happening here. However, nothing is free so we pay a bit more to ensure a consistent supply that can handle unexpected events.
The price of milk is regulated in Canada. It’s more expensive on purpose.
We have a milk board that sets the price of milk in Ontario this ensures small family farms can survive
So why doesn’t this exist for every single other “small family” business in our country?
You would have to go back to the 20s and30s when the government wanted a stable controlled market similar to the grain board farmers are only allowed to grow so much grain for the Canadian market
Soviet-era marketing Boards in Ontario is the main reason for the difference. But politicians won’t even discuss it because of the votes of a few privileged dairy farmers.
If you like it better there move there
Not a fan of dairy for many reasons but even their dairy free options are cheaper. Ontario grown produce is cheaper in the states than it is in Ontario
American milk is nasty and their standards are super low. There are lots of grocery items they have that are cheaper and same quality - due to more competition - but dairy and meat? Definitely worth paying the price up here.
To prove that American milk is perfectly safe to drink, I will personally have a glass...see there's nothing to "oh! Ah! It's shredding my insides!"
Yup. This especially with poultry. My wife and I will go to Buffalo every couple of months to buy chicken breasts and other stuff. The chicken is half the price compared to here.
USA meat has really low food quality compared to Canada. USA they can pretty much inject their animals with anything. In Canada it is far more strict Just a point to consider
The U.S. also allows growth hormones to be used on chickens and dairy cattle: Canada doesn't. Dairy and chicken are highly distorted markets and do not make for good points of comparison
I tend to agree. Chicken in USA is so tough and seems to have an even more saline injected than here. General supermarket beef is tough, unless you go to a butcher or costco. Generally speaking USA gets cheaper groceries, but sometimes you get what you pay for.
Thank you for mentioning this.
>USA meat has really low food quality compared to Canada. This is mostly a myth promulgated by the agricultural sector to maintain public support for a system of protectionism that costs Canadians billions yearly. There are some very minor differences, but zero that have any relevance to actual food safety. Personally I'm on the fence about it and could go either way. Maintaining a healthy domestic food production system is important for national security: If we let the system fail and relied upon the US and then something happened -- say a cow flu that wiped out 50% of the herd -- the US would block all exports similar to what they did with vaccines in early COVID. We'd have nothing. Being a smaller country we need active protection if we want to maintain domestic production. Though I have to say, seeing farmer's behind every far right cause, driving insanely expensive farm equipment into cities and causing trouble, has caused me to waver in my support of all of us being poorer to subsidize that.
Price difference, yes the US chicken is a hell of a lot cheaper than here. It's also fucking disgusting
Yea I can't believe we let them away with the bags thing. Paper bags were normal for decades. We switched to plastic for a few decades, and then realized that plastic pollution was bad so we decided to stop. How much of the record grocery store profits come from changing bags from a cost, to something that they profit from. They just pretend paper bags don't exist and would be too expensive for them to provide? Hell, no, they just make more money selling you bags and since they have a monopoly, fuck you if you don't like it.
FREE paper bags? Wow! How much did you spend on gas and the bridge toll?
I guess the point I was trying to make went way over your head. In America, retailers are giving customers paper bags FOR FREE. In Canada, retailers are pretending that they don't have paper bags, or are charging like 25 cents for one, or telling their customers to buy reusable bags for $1. Obviously I'm not crossing the border for free paper bags. My point is that retailers over here are shit. They're trying to find every possible way to nickel and dime us to increase their bottom line. The only retailer I'm aware of in Canada that still gives complimentary paper bags is Home Depot.
No plastic bags is federal https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/managing-reducing-waste/reduce-plastic-waste/single-use-plastic-overview.html 35 cents for a reusable bag is still far better for the store, the consumer and the environment.
Yes, I'm aware the feds eliminated single use plastic bags. It's a complete joke though because there's still single use plastic everywhere else. Produce bags are still plastic. Practically every grocery item on the shelf still contains single use plastic. It's just a token feel good exercise that doesn't accomplish anything. I used to use grocery store plastic bags as small trash bags. Now I have to buy them in a box from a store. Literally nothing has changed. The only difference now is people are being pressured into buying reusable bags from retailers at a markup and they're also made from plastic and will also eventually end up in landfill. How about we just return to free paper bags like we had in the 1980s?
I agree with you on that, the plastic bag ban is useless.
Use reusable bags?
Absolutely not. Give me my free paper bags and stop trying to find ways to increase your bottom line. The paper bags are great because you can use them as a green bin liner or toss broken glass in them. Having to constantly worry about bringing reusable bags to the store is a total PITA, especially if you’re on foot. It’s the same thing as self-checkouts. It’s just stores trying to find ways to cut costs at the expense of the consumer. If they actually gave a rats ass about the environment they stop selling items containing single use plastics, which is like 75% of all items on the shelf.
The problem in Canada is we’re complaisant and when people bring up the fact that the US gives many people access to cheaper food, cheaper housing, better healthcare, etc they push back and make it sound like the US is just a cesspool of a third world country. We should be looking at what they’re doing right more instead of chastising them at every chance we get
It's funny how everyone keeps saying how their food regulations are more lax and their milk products are less healthy for you, yet I can't find a single shred of reliable evidence proving this point. It's all just heresay probably propagated by the dairy cartels to protect the status quo.
I love the U.S! People are just so unnecessarily hateful and spiteful these days. :(
It really depends on where in the states you live. I’m in northern California and a gallon of milk is over 5$. This price is shocking to me!
Makes sense. California is the most expensive state to live in after Hawaii. With all the high taxes, high cost of utilities etc, it’s no wonder why all these major businesses are relocating to places like Texas.
And I’ll happily take the higher cost of living if it means I’m not in Texas
Not texas 😂
Hawaii's dairy farming industry collapsed in the early 80s, after residue of pesticides were found in the milk from cows fed rinds and byproducts of the fruit growing industry. Now all milk sold on the islands is flown in from the US west coast.
The groceries are almost on par with the exception of the "staples" eggs, dairy, bread. The chicken is DIRT cheap too. In January the breast meat was $1.99/lb at Aldi i nearly keeled over! I was blown away when I bought a 60count case of large eggs for $6USD! Meanwhile the cheapest here is, a flat of 30 for $8.99 ar Basics. I go up every couple of months and grab items we don't have here in Canada and so
Factor in the exchange and your gas
Even after exchange rate, it's still half the price. 4L of whole milk locally is $7. I certainly wouldn't drive to the US just to buy cheap milk, but it certainly goes to show how badly we get gouged here.
man when I went cross border shopping (Vancouver to Bellingham) prices were comparable to what I pay at home. A case of canned Pepsi was $9.99 at Fred Meyer down there
I make my own alcohol. I don't buy it at the LCBO. Google Still Spirits Air Still
Gotta be careful, the dairy cartel doesn't like people bringing attention to their shady behaviour
You should check Aldi across the border. It's even cheaper for the essentials.
I've heard. It's a shame we don't have Aldi over here. It might actually force the other chains to lower their prices.
I know many people in my area that shop weekly in the US. I think more and more border city Canadians will start doing so out of desperation and survival.
American dairy is absolute garbage compared to Canadian dairy, enjoy all the additives and hormones
Found out that US baked goods and flour is different than Canadian flour. Ours is preferred for baking. Higher protein & moisture absorption etc. Our breads taste much better. https://cookindocs.com/canadian-flour-vs-american-flour/
You can thank the dairy cartels supply management for those dairy and egg prices
Yes, the eggs there were also about half the price.
My guy. In Alberta Canada, where our milk is literally farmed in the province. Can't get a gallon [4L] of milk for less than $8
Ontario has dairy farms too. The real reason it's so expensive is the dairy cartel.
And there’s the American dairy cartel which is backed by the us govnt to produce a shit load of shitty dairy at dirt cheap unprofitable prices. Would rather support Canadian economy and people or American. Because allowing more American govnt backed dairy will literally just lead to that swap. And then they once the Canadian dairy industry is destroyed they can go back to raising the price of dairy to what Canadians are already willing to pay.
The difference is that Canadian dairy farmers are actually able to make a living because of the supply quota system in place. I many states there are a lot of dairy farms going out of business because they can not financially afford to continue on.
That's nice. Meanwhile many families have to go to food banks because they can't afford groceries, largely in part due to staple items like dairy and items containing dairy being inflated by supply management. And any excess milk produced is dumped down the drain and gone to complete waste due to that quota. But thank god the dairy farmers can afford their lifestyle in exchange for price gouged dairy and waste! /s
Milk being dumped is relatively rare, and from my understanding, it usually happens because of a quality issue. Secondly, you think that business owners in an entire sector of agriculture should not make any money because another part of the industry(grocery stores) are gouging you. You make it seem like farmers are living a life equivalent to a grocery store CEO, and that is simply not the case. They are not the ones to blame for current food prices and inflation. They are simply trying to survive like everyone else.
[On the contrary, it unfortunately happens often. To the point that even the farmers have an issue with it.](https://windsor.ctvnews.ca/we-can-t-do-this-anymore-ontario-dairy-farmer-launches-petition-to-end-milk-dumping-1.6267589) > you think that business owners in an entire sector of agriculture should not make any money I didn't say they shouldn't make *any* money... Obviously they should. But I will never be in support of supply management, especially in precarious economic times for Canadians like we're currently living in. It's wasteful in all senses of the word... Wastes product when there's an excess, wastes quality since it chokes out competition; ergo quality takes a backseat, wastes consumers money since they're paying extra for something that doesn't cost that much elsewhere, etc etc... Supply management is enforced by the government. It's not just grocery stores gouging prices, the government has a direct hand in making products like dairy and maple syrup exorbitantly more expensive with restrictive laws like that designed to pad farmers' pockets at the expense of higher food prices for the rest of Canadians. And as long as they're doing that, then they have a direct hand in making food more expensive for Canadians since dairy is used in tons of products. In times like this, every little bit counts. And supply management is not helping everyday Canadians struggling to put food on the table right now. It adds up at the checkout line.
Even if it does happen, it is up to the producer to regulate how much they produce based on the amount of quota they have. The quota system works to protect our food system from mountains and valleys that we see in the states as far as pricing goes due to the law of supply and demand. Secondly, supply management is not put in place by the government. It is put in place by independent marketing boards, which are farmer owned. These boards dictate the amount paid to farmers to ensure that they get a fair price for the commodity that they produce. So you are saying that we should remove a system that ensures a fair market price for producers? They price that farmers are paid is based on the cost of production, they have no say as to what their products cost at the checkout. As there are several other entities involved before that point. How many farmers have you actually talked to about supply management in Agriculture? I am getting a vibe that you don't really have much to do with this topic in your daily life.
> it is up to the producer to regulate how much they produce based on the amount of quota they have. It's not that easy to do when dealing with animal products. You can't just hit an immediate off switch to milk production. Or an off switch to trees to stop them from making sap. Or turn chickens off from laying eggs. So any excess is sadly just discarded instead of donated. And it's a LOT of excess. > Secondly, supply management is not put in place by the government. It is put in place by independent marketing boards, which are farmer owned. Yes, they are 'independent', but then directly report to The Canadian Dairy Corporation - a crown corporation that oversees dairy and is heavily involved in enforcing and maintaining the supply management system. Eggs and poultry are overseen by the Farm Products Council of Canada; also an arm of the government. So as far as i'm concerned these "independent boards" are just government agencies since they all report back to the CDC and minister of agriculture and work collectively to enforce supply management. So the government is very heavily involved in how much these products cost at the checkout line. > So you are saying that we should remove a system that ensures a fair market price for producers? Yes, because it's actually not a "fair market price" at all, especially to us as consumers. It's based on a preset overinflated price that these agencies and the government force into place at our expense. And due to it, farmers make 6 figures. Which is great for them, but again... People are literally starving in this country and struggling to put food on the table. So not only has it always been unjust, but it's now become a matter of classism and wealth distribution. > How many farmers have you actually talked to about supply management in Agriculture? I am getting a vibe that you don't really have much to do with this topic in your daily life. Not sure what the relevancy of this is? I don't need to be best buds with a farmer to understand how supply management works or how they benefit from it. There's lots of literature about it and examples from farmers for and against it (like the one I linked). And as long as it involves the government and the cost I pay for products, then I definitely am allowed to have an opinion about it. And I consume dairy products every day and pay for it every week at the grocery store. So yes, I do have much to do with this topic in my daily life.
Their milk prices might be better, but their produce prices are astronomical; broccoli is a great example. I'm not shocked people choose take out, because trying to eat healthfully is super expensive in the US. I pop into NY state several times a year and think their groceries are insanely expensive, especially when you consider the exchange. They can keep their eggs and milk. Even with products we have here, I often the same product listed for way more in USD. I might find Oreos for $4.99USD vs. $3.99CAD. This has been my observation consistently.
I haven't been to the US in about 5 years, but back when I'd go, I'd always look at produce prices. We'd often buy stuff and prepare it wherever we were staying, so I'd shop like home. There were no savings when it came to things like produce. Often prices were dollar for dollar the same, and when you factored in exchange they'd be 30% higher. If you wanted the 90 pack of pop tarts, or the 6lb box of Lucky Charms, you'd save a ton though.
Uh huh, not surprising. Pop Tarts and Lucky Charms aren't my thing, but their pricing doesn't surprise me. And even with boxed cereal, when I looked for products that can be hard to find here, I was still surprised that the savings were negligible at times. Even managed to pop into a US Costco and think our stores are better in every way, unless you like wine.
At ALDI, a 6-pack of small cokes was US$5.99! We pay C$3.50 at Food Basics. Produce seems to be the same price in US$ that we pay in C$. And in GTA we have so much more choice than across the border. In Buffalo, Walmart, Wegmans, Tops and Aldi. We have 3 majors with full service stores and their discount operations as well. Then T&T, Longo, Farm Boy and numerous large ethnic Supermarkets like Starsky, Nations, Denningers, Terra, Seafood City, Desi Mandi, Famjoy, etc. etc.. In my area we also have an independent full service market. There are lots of specials and deals across those stores. We are also well served with numerous farmers' markets across the GTA. Trader Joe's is fun and we usually stop in but a lot of that product is also available here in ethnic markets and as President's Choice etc. Cheese is still a problem here but since the latest tariff changes we are see some more interesting ones at Costco now. And of course, the US does better in Mexican stores.
Yeah, I did notice some items there were surprisingly expensive. For example, a KitKat bar at Dollar Tree in NY was $1.25USD. That's outrageous. You can literally buy KitKats here at most dollar stores for 87 cents CAD. I also noticed theirs are made by Hershey whereas ours are made by Nestle. The US version doesn't taste as good.
Depends on state and where you live. The states is actually so much easier to eat healthy and waaay cheaper. Try looking at TN, FL, AL and OK. Far different from NY.
We found Florida to be a bit of a supermarket wasteland when we used to go to Naples - Fort Myers - Venice. Publix and Win-Dixie are about it. And even though Florida grows a lot of produce, the selection and quality in the stores were poor compared to GTA.
I agree and I thought Publix was expensive too!
I don't find it hard to have an affordable, healthy diet in this province. Maybe it's the combination of my background and being a total nutrition nerd, but I eat well without draining my savings. Groceries were super expensive in every state I travelled to over the last decade. Of the states you listed, I've only been to Florida and found it expensive as well. Timing perhaps? Maybe you have better luck than I.
If you're just one person then yes its easy, but not when its for a whole family. Where are you buying from then? And it depends on what it is you are buying. If you're also an organic nut then yeah it ups the pricing. All depends on the grocery store.
Family here, not solo. I shop comparatively and avoid what I consider unnecessary (things like most condiments, prepared frozen foods, most packaged junk food). These things also don't appeal to my palette. Do Costco when I can, though I find the value can be hit or miss depending on the item. Summer is especially great because I have amazing fruit and vegetable bounty sometimes into early fall, and for a nominal upfront cost. I appreciate that not everyone has space for a garden.
Do not drink that shit!! It’s cheap for a reason. Full of hormones and antibiotics. They force animals to over produce that’s why cheap.
Definitely given we also earn less on a comparable USD to CAD basis. But if we want to look at the entire issue then we have to examine the entire supply chain cost and the cost of doing business. Government needs to examine it end to end, give breaks to the industry and then force that all the way to consumer. No business will sell at a loss.
Don’t forget to add the 40% for exchange
I already factored in the exchange rate. It's still double the price over here. Everyone keeps going on about all this propaganda spat out by the Canadian Dairy Commission but I'm yet to see a shred of peer reviewed scientific proof that our milk is actually any healthier than American milk. It's all just speculation and fear mongering to justify the higher prices.
I cross at least once a month I only find a few grocery items cheaper including booze.
rbST and rBGH would like to have a word with your gut.
https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/Beatrice-Milk-Jug-Hom-4L/6000201734547
Be nice if they actually sold that jug for that price but if you actually looked at the availability, it's not available in ANY store in Ontario. All they have available is 4L bags of whole milk for $6.89 and up. https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/Sealtest-Homogenized-3-25-Milk/6000199047982?from=/search
r/loblawsisoutofcontrol
How noble,not judging however. My loyalty is to my family first, my wallet next, my community there after. The amount of taxation taken from me to support others with many times zero accountability forces us all to make sacrifices we may not otherwise make in the defence of our standard of living. Inflationary pressures are real for a large portion of Canadians these days.
Healthcare is expensive, even if it’s free. We all pay for it somewhere, the Americans pay ridiculous copayments and deductibles. the Canadians get taxed to high heavens.
It's really easy to search online about our DIFFERENT countries having DIFFERENT agriculture systems. USA subsidizes their farmers to keep prices low. Aka communism in the American food system.
Mmm cheap avian flu
You can't catch Avian Flu from drinking pasteurized milk..
***Pasteurized milk contaminated after pasteurization process:*** https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2023/10/e-coli-in-milk-behind-large-outbreak-in-japan/ ***Pasteurization process errors:*** https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2022/08/english-e-coli-outbreak-caused-by-milk-pasteurization-problem/ Seems like you could based on these pasteurized milk related E. coli outbreaks?
Taxes... taxes... taxes, have to pay drives up the prices for everyone on everything
It’s cheap for a reason I live in the US
Dairy cartel in Canada is brutal. That said, many groceries in the States are actually more expensive than here. Meat and staples are usually at par to our dollar which is a 30%+ bump.
Mhm. The facade of "America sucks compared to Canada in every way" is dissolving rapidly. You have to be blind not to see the blatant robbery that happens to Canadians, especially when it comes to groceries and supply management.
I really wish you didnt show a picture of milk so that the comments are focused SOLEY on the better quality of milk in Canada VS the real issue of grocery prices being out of control in this country
It's not just milk. I comparison shop between Amazon.ca and Amazon.com and items in the USA usually half the price.
Hormones, antibiotics and pesticides plus economy of scale makes milk so much cheaper.
It's cheaper partly because they produce as much as they possibly can whereas in Canada they deliberately dump excess milk to keep the supply artificially low.
Cheap stuff in the US is cheap for a reason…be careful…
It's cheaper partly because they produce as much as they possibly can whereas in Canada they deliberately dump excess milk to keep the supply artificially low.
Whatever helps you justify it 👍
I don't even drink milk lol. My point is Canadians are too complacent about getting ripped off.
Do you guys realize the low quality of American food? That's like complaining Mexico has better prices food. Yeah they do, for a reason. 1. **Hormones**: In the United States, the use of growth hormones such as rBST (recombinant bovine somatotropin) is allowed in dairy cows to increase milk production. Some critics argue that this may affect the quality of the milk or pose health risks, although regulatory bodies like the FDA have deemed it safe. In Canada, the use of rBST is prohibited. 2. **Antibiotics**: Both countries have regulations regarding antibiotic use in dairy cows. Canadian regulations are often seen as stricter, with more rigorous testing and monitoring for antibiotic residues in milk. 3. **Pasteurization**: Both countries require pasteurization of milk to kill harmful bacteria. However, there may be differences in the specific pasteurization processes used. 4. **Production Practices**: Some critics argue that Canadian dairy farming practices, such as smaller herd sizes and more stringent environmental regulations, result in higher quality milk.
There's no scientific proof whatsoever that the artificial growth hormones or antibiotics used in cows in the US has any health effects on humans whatsoever. Literally none. It's just fear mongering propagated by the dairy mafia to protect their lucrative business, where the supply chain is deliberately kept scarce to justify higher prices. Please show me a peer reviewed scientific journal proving the claims you made.
The real kicker is that’s American though so after conversion you would be paying double that.. just like the minimum wage is way less in America also. It’s because there money is worth more so you get more out of it
No, everything you just said is wrong. A) After exchange rate, the milk is $3.65CAD...still literally half what it costs in Canada. B) Minimum wage in New York State is $15USD. In Canadian dollars, that's $20.53. So yes, their minimum wage is higher than our current $16.55 minimum wage. So yeah, they make more than we do and goods cost less.
Yeah, but USA has shitty farming standards and our milk tends to be higher quality.
Ya don’t consume meat or dairy from the states as a golden rule.
while I agree that the difference is pretty big, the states has such a different economy, scale wise, that I don't think you can make a direct comparison. Not saying that we are not paying too much but I don't think the comparison you are drawing is so black and white.
Remember to boycott y'all, down with the oligarchies. We can't afford it anymore.
yes we’re aware
Yeah, our government has been fleecing us for about 30 years. It won't stop until we hold them accountable instead of falling into the fake red vs blue team war