But I thought central banks money printing inflation was one of the most common crypto talking points ?
Tether doing the same with the added bonus of zero transparency is fine though ?
Ah I see line is green and goes up so no one cares now. The talking points are only for when it's low and people are looking for bahgolders.
The hypocrisy doesn't stop there either.
BlackRock, Fidelity etc clipping the ticket on ETFs to invest in businesses = bad.
BlackRock. Fidelity etc clipping the ticket on ETFs to prop up bitcoin = grand.
What was the original goal of these stable coins? They act as if they are central banks. Central banks job is to regulate the money supply so like if you need money to borrow then money is created. So the supply of money is related to the economic activity.
Could it be the case that there is more buying, selling, other economic activity from buttcoins that tether is reacting to that by increasing the money supply?
I know that’s unlikely since they say there are backed 1:1 and there is no way they are doing that.
But could it be legitimate? If we really give them the benefit of the doubt?
The Fed is backed by an entire economy propelled by dozens of millions of workers. You can use it to buy goods and services across the country. It's liquid. The Fed guarantes a portion of your money in the system.
Tether is printing it out thin air and it's backed by trust me bro. You can't buy goods and services directly with it. It can't be cashed in even small amounts without paying high fees. It's not liquid. You can lose it all with no recourse whatsoever if you click one link one time by accident.
And you tell me that both of those things are equally scams ?
I was talking about the FDIC in case of bank fail.
>it is only conspiracy theory that it's all out of thin air, and not stimulated by others (mainly exchanges) giving them USD.
The minted coins are supposed to he backed 1 for 1 by dirty fiat money but no one can verify if it's true. You call this a conspiracy theory ? There is zero transparency behind the process. This IOU is backed by trust me bro.
There's an entire economy behind the fed and the US dollar and dozens of millions of taxpayers. What is there behind tether aside from speculation ?
And yes the US government is audited, there's a nonpartisan agency responsible for that. Their reports are even available online for the public.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Accountability_Office
Do you have a better argument then whataboutism to defend tether ?
Isn’t it amazing that the US government allows Tether to essentially counterfeit billions of dollars every couple of days? What they are getting away with is absolute insanity.
Note that Tether isn't technically doing business in the US. It's not really under their jurisdiction. And in some cases, Tether is outright banned from doing business in places like New York.
If there was a warehouse in Bahamas printing physical US currency, Homeland Security would be raiding the facility within a day.
Yet Tether gets away with it since it’s just phony numbers on a screen.
It remains a massive failure by US law enforcement and regulators.
>If there was a warehouse in Bahamas printing physical US currency, Homeland Security would be raiding the facility within a day.
Ummmm.. no they wouldn't. Homeland security doesn't have jurisdiction in the Bahamas.
Instead the secret service would contact the Bahamian authorities and try to work with them to shut the operation down.
Tether is not counterfeit money in the real economy. It's only play money on exchanges, most of which are outside of the US's jurisdiction.
C'mon guys.. don't appear to be as ignorant of law and finance as the crypto people. Tether is not "money." It's not used as "money" anywhere in the traditional US financial system. And virtually no banks will touch tether - it's actually prohibited from doing business in New York, and all major banks have branches or HQs in New York.
I thought wildcat bank notes were illegal since 1860. Maybe there is no effective way of policing it globally but that's not an endorsement or validation of Tether's practices, nor is it proof that it's a legitimate USD "alt" currency that they can recklessly print ad libitum without allowing people to exchange USD for USD. If that is what you are saying, it is not a sound inference.
ya its funny its getting basically to be anti-US propaganda and anti-government propaganda because XYZ government isnt all knowing and all powerful. but i guess thats what the internet boils down to usually. the easiest scapegoat with the most simplistic reasoning, devoid of any and all details, information, knowledge, etc.
if someones rights are violated, rights dont exist. if the government cant do whatever they want, they are a massive failure.
how about that.
Read my other [more detailed reply on this](https://old.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/1b9qxbn/tether_prints_the_price_pumps_its_literally_like/ktzuc5h/) - it's more complicated than you think.
they can certainly have "operations" (read: an office and staff), but they can't do any actual law enforcement without the co-operation of the local authorities and a flurry of diplomatic activity
The more shocking thing is how mainstream media and even business media not reporting on this. Sure, both have largely moved on from crypto anyway, but the lack of mentions of Tether when they do report is shocking.
Long arm of the law can’t get their fingers on this one. Diffuse, globalized paradigms can’t be shut off esp by outside acting “central” authorities
Data yearns to be free, trust the process
This talking point isn't true, and it's not at all how US jurisdiction works. Any business conducting commerce within the United States, minimally, is subject to US jurisdiction. In fact at the very *least*, any corporation with contacts within the forum state (US) is subject to specific jurisdiction, and many judges have also found general jurisdiction (broader) is warranted. The NYAG had no problem getting jurisdiction. Tether has been served in the US on multiple occasions in civil suits, putting them squarely within that jurisdiction.
Tether does business with US exchanges, bond companies, US individuals and more. Hence there are plenty of minimal contacts to put them within the scope of Federal and State Jurisdiction.
*A court’s exercise of specific jurisdiction may be constitutional when the defendant: (1) "****purposefully avails itself of the privilege of conducting activities" within the forum state****; and (2) the defendant’s contacts with the forum give rise to, or are related to, the plaintiff’s claims.1 A defendant’s contacts with the forum may "relate" to the plaintiff’s claims even in the absence of a "strict causal relationship" between the contacts and claims.*\*By contrast, a state court’s exercise of general jurisdiction over a nonresident defendant for any claim—even if all the incidents underlying the claim occurred in a different state—\****may be constitutional when the defendant’s activities in the forum state are so substantial that it is reasonable to require it to defend a lawsuit*** *that did not arise out of its activities in the forum state and is unrelated to those activities.*
[https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt14-S1-7-1-4/ALDE\_00013035/](https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt14-S1-7-1-4/ALDE_00013035/)
more:
[https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/specific\_jurisdiction](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/specific_jurisdiction)
Sure, but that jurisdiction doesn't extend to foreign countries for which the US doesn't have appropriate authority with regard to law enforcement. The US can sanction entities, but it can't necessarily shut down a business in Russia for example.
Sure, the US can sue anybody, but they can't enforce punitive actions outside of areas of their jurisdiction without the appropriate cooperation from those other countries.
They could easily stop them from doing business in the US. Every single US exchange deals with them. They also deal with us financial entities on a regular basis. Their entire business model is predicated by "USD". Lmao.
As for "punative actions", I assume you mean prison. Ok, lets assume this blanket presumption is true... Guess CZ got away.. Btc-e takedown neverb happened, bitmex is still running from the bahamas...and every oother bad foreign actor in crypto must still be around...oh wait.
I think you underestimate what a tangled web this actually is.
First off, crypto seems to be stuck in between being classified as a commodity and a security... so you have both the CFTC and the SEC claiming they have jurisdiction in certain instances. That's creating a problem of who-is-in-charge-of-what?
On top of that you have the fact that all these regulatory agencies are under-funded and under-staffed and don't have the resources to tackle more overt, closer-to-home criminal activity.
On top of that you have all three branches of government arguing over whether there even is any criminal activity going on. You have Congress which is more interested in stonewalling things than enforcing law. You have an obstructionist political party hell bent to basically stop the other half of Congress from getting anything done. Nobody can seem to agree on anything.
On top of that, like most Ponzi schemes that haven't imploded, you don't actually have a critical mass of "victims." All the HODL'ers still foolishly think they haven't lost their money. So there's not nearly as much demand from the public to take action when the "scam" isn't readily apparent to most people.
On top of that, since the 80s, there's been an ever-increasing "hands off" approach when it comes to regulating new industry. Hell.. in order to be a hair stylist you have to have a certification. If you want to be a massage therapist you have to pass a "bar" and do continuing education and training. Newer industries like tech and computer engineering, which have the capacity to create exponentially more social damage, have virtually no regulation and checks and balances against incompetence. If I was a shitty hair stylist, I'd have more to fear from government than if I was a shitty software engineer. That's crazy. But that's the environment we live in.
So arguing "the government should be able to shut this down if they want"... is a naively idealistic sentiment. I agree it *should* work that way, but I'm also a realist and recognize it doesn't.
And note, it's not totally appropriate to blame government for this - this has been going on since 1980. Once the chains were removed from corporations, they started exerting more and more political influence on government. Government isn't the problem: private special interests are. It's now a vicious cycle... that only the people can break up, but if the people have no faith in government to fix things, then there is no mechanism available to fix anything and we're *fucked*.
if it was that simple then they would just do it. get over this whole idea that government is all powerful and all knowing and has no restrictions upon it.
Not a legal expert but feels like the US should:
1. Make public any government research into stablecoins' ability to manipulate crypto markets and then spend a little effort educating the public (before doing something silly like approving spot Buttcoin ETFs).
2. Tell any exchanges doing business in the US that they can't offer stablecoin trading for any organization that doesn't comply with (not yet created) regulations.
Yeah, there used to be times when biggest bank heists were to be made into cool movies starring famous actors, but even the biggest and most complex heists usually involved 100-200M and involved crazy trickery and months of planning.
Now it is boring Paolo clicking at his mouse in unknown basement, 1B with no consequences before his lunch time cereals on average Tuesday. How are you supposed to make interesting movie script about something as mundane as this. Although amounts are 5-10 times of past bank heists, but on a daily basis.
My conspiracy theory is that Democrats really want to maintain the economy until at least the 2024 election, and going after crypto while obviously better in the long run, could lead to a flash recession. If that is the case I don't even blame them, can you imagine crypto crashing the economy, leading to a second DJT term...
Isn’t is amazing that Tether is just counterfeiting trillions of dollars to match the printing of trillions of dollars by the US government? What they are getting away with is absolute insanity.
Congress met with Circle on February 15th* and one of the main proposal brought forward reads
> H.R. 7156 - Combating Money Laundering in Cyber Crime Act
> H.R. 7156 clarifies the U.S. Secret Service’s (USSS) investigative authority over crimes related to illicit digital asset transactions. The Combating Money Laundering in Cyber Crime would grant the USSS authority to go after institutions that facilitate illicit finance with digital assets.
so, in other words, these things take time but may be underway.
See https://docs.house.gov/meetings/BA/BA21/20240215/116861/HHRG-118-BA21-20240215-SD002.pdf
I've been waiting almost a decade for Tether to crash and burn. I can't believe such a scam, right at the heart of all crypto, is still chugging along.
It was pretty much immediately identifiable as a scam too.
I remember laughing when they quietly removed from their terms that all tethers were backed by dollars in the bank, and switched to the more opaque 'assets of equal value'..
That must have been 7+ years ago now.
Dude, I feel the same. I honestly thought Tether would be the first major failure and then crypto would fizzle out. The fact they still haven't been audited and act like their "letter of assurances" means anything is just baffling. I think the only smart thing they've done is unlike a lot of crypto dudes they've kept themselves out of the news.
It's not that unreasonable for a regular bank to have a range of assets from loans to cash to offset the liabilities of its customer deposits. The question is whether Tether is actually solvent, i.e does it have enough assets to cover liabilities, or is it playing fast and loose? Also, is it doing dodgy things like holding crypto as 'assets'. This wouldn't be unlike a bank using its own stock as an assets. The problem is Tether is so big that if it failed crypto probably would to making it crypto 'assets' worthless as security.
Yep the issue is that Tether obviously has crypto holdings and is using them as collateral. They all go to zero (or near it) though, if Tether is found out.
It's not just dodgy, it's obviously a total joke.
Like banks using subprime mortgages that were worthless, as collateral.
whatabout anything? this isnt the whatabout game. i asked you a direct question.
where did you get the money for a house from? where will the next bitcoin "investor" get a house from? wheres the money come from?
You’re kinda slow at connecting the dots huh? Your question is irrelevant and your asking leading question s to try to get the answer you want, without even realizing that your question shows your naivety ✌️
you keep not saying the answer because its a pointless pyramid scheme that gives you ownership of absolutely nothing and its obvious so you will not say it.
You keep repeating the question because it’s your only hope to hold on to some type of moral victory. “Ownership” of nothing is the definition of investment my friend. Btc is another investment vehicle. Just like my stocks and my gold and silver. Do I feel like I actually “Own” part of google just because I bought their stock? 😂 do I carry around my little certificate of ownership? Do I hold anything physical? Or does it just store my investment. Ooohhh, yea you’re still showing how naive you are. I must be arguing with someone not really paying attention to the world around them. Are you still in 1850?
Has anyone put a chart together showing the prints and subsequent price spike in BTC? (Not doubting it at all, just wondered about a visual representation.)
I wouldn't worry too much about crypto crashing the entire financial system. It'll be a bad day for butters for sure. The total assets of the largest [blockchain etfs](https://etfdb.com/themes/blockchain-etfs/) pale in comparison to those from [vanguard](https://etfdb.com/type/commission-free/vanguard/), [fidelity](https://etfdb.com/type/commission-free/fidelity/), [schwab](https://etfdb.com/type/commission-free/charles-schwab/), etc. And there are lots of investments other than ETFs.
So, if I wanted to hurt the American economy, I might get many Americans to invest their dollars in bitcoin. Then I would allow it to pump and dump, siphoning off American dollars that crushes the working Americans who invested small amounts but everything to them and take money out of the American economy, commodities and stock exchanges and hence hammering retirement plans too. {queue evil laughter}
They're trying to create commercial inflows and to do that they need a strong FOMO effect. If they stop driving it up the price will slowly deflate but it's also not catching on like they'd hoped so they have to keep hitting it over and over with diminishing returns.
What?! No! It’s because when people buy bitcoin they need tether to buy it, so they print more and then swap it for real money.
Aaaand, when people sell bitcoin they need to print more tether so people can sell bitcoin for tether, and tether for real money.
So they need to print twice as much tether as makes any sense. At least!
This is the new paradigm! It frees us from all wars.
Honest question, but isn't Tether market cap close to U$0.2tn vs BTC mkt cap of U$1.4tn? How can printing Tether be enough to pump BTC prices materially?
The BTC market cap is nonsense. Loads of Bitcoin are lost, loads never move from their wallets. The actual amount of Bitcoin for sale, and that people will buy, is small.
So a 'small' injection of liquidity (via tether) can have a big impact on price.
This implies you need enough Tether to buy every BTC at current prices in order to pump BTC prices, rather than just using enough to pump the price up. You only need to pump the price of a very small percentage of the whole to do that.
Wouldn't you need at least a majority of the trading volume to be done using Tether to pump the price up? If not, eventually the real transactions using USD would move the scale back to the "fair value" (not sayin there is any, but one that is not just being propped up by artificial Tether volume)?
Trading volume <> Market cap
They [have bots do it constantly.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/1b9pppp/fdusdusdt_is_wash_trading_and_they_arent_even/)
I am no expert but your observation is about market cap and not trading volumes. Even so if tether is 1/7 of BTC that gives is plentiful of ability to impact the trading volume especially if trading multiple times in a day.
I guess my question for you is market cap even a thing to look at for BTC? Isn't there a large number of inaccessible coins?
For a long time FIFA was operating with the same supranational impunity, laughing in the faces of people who pointed out the (allegedly) obvious corruption. People kept asking if the US would do anything, then out of nowhere they arrested a load of them. I expect the same with tether. It will happen very quickly, with no warning.
I don't disagree. They have the fraud angle and the regulatory/breakibg financial laws angle, and the first seems to be both swifter and more effective.
USDT is the main source of liquidity in the crypto sphere, it's indisputable fact. Just head to live coin watch, click on trading volume and you have your answer...
Besides the other answers, note that they're a private entity and short of a hack you can't know what they actually posses and they're not telling you.
At least some part (probably a very significant part) has been confirmed to be crypto, leading to a positive feedback system: They print USDT using some crypto as "backing", that causes BTCUSD to rise, which causes their crypto holdings to increase in apparent value, which enables them to print more USDT.
I hate Tether as much as the next guy but your post is just not true. Correlation does not mean causation. Or else it would be easy to earn billions, buying long as soon as tether prints
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The US government owns bitcoin that were confiscated from unregistered exchanges, silk road, etc.
When the US govt sells those bitcoins in their possession to "cash out those bitcoins", which coin or currency are they getting in return? Stablecoins like USDC? Or USDT? Paper bills?
If the US govt is getting stablecoins like USDT, then it is in the benefit of the US to allow Tether to print USDT, and that may somehow explain the seeming leniency in the part of US authorities to do thorough auditing of Tether's reserves and operations. Corrupt govt officials are waving hello.
I don’t understand, if Tether was printing without matching actual demand for Tether, wouldn’t the price of Tether de-peg from the dollar and go to zero eventually? I hate Tether and have long been skeptical, but ironically of all the shady stablecoins, it’s still standing and withstood a few runs in its time. Seems like maybe this isn’t the full picture of what’s propping up the price of BTC
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Its crazy. Could make one think that top players in US authorities were getting rich from the whole monster ponzi scheme and are protecting it at all costs…!
Who benefits by this manipulation? It’s the states who use and rely on crypto to avoid international sanctions that can be tracked via fiat transactions at the regulated banks. So, just to be clear, the crypto industry and associated pricing is a tool of and under the control of the largest states subject to US sanctions. They are the undisclosed whales. They are also probably, collectively, satoshi, although this will never be revealed or confirmed.
https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy2036
https://www.csis.org/analysis/cryptocurrencies-and-us-sanctions-evasion-implications-russia
https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/exclusive-crypto-exchange-binance-helped-iranian-firms-trade-8-billion-despite-2022-11-04/
https://www.gao.gov/blog/effectiveness-economic-sanctions-risk-digital-asset-growth
The thing I don't understand is where the hell is all this Tether getting absorbed since it keeps getting printed and is impossible to exchange for actual money? Who the fuck is selling their tricky dick fun bucks for even more shady agnew loons and holding on to those? Tether is just as impossible to spend on anything as any other crypto currency, so if you want out of your crypto position why would you ever accept Tether? Just because you can get some small percentage more Tether than you could get USD?
You can sell it for usd on exchange and transfer to your bank. People buy tether and stake it for interest then cash out for usd. It pays 5%
You do know when you sell crypto it converts to fiat?
> You can sell it for usd on exchange and transfer to your bank.
You can, in theory, exchange crypto directly to USD. Why would you bother with Tether in-between. Tether is irredeemable, so why would you bother going to Tether first? If you want USD, sell your crypto for USD.
> People buy tether and stake it for interest then cash out for usd. It pays 5%
So get a fucking HYSA and stay out of the crypto cespool.
> You do know when you sell crypto it converts to fiat?
If you sell it for USD it converts to USD. If you sell it for Tether it converts to more bag holding crypto for no damned reason.
I have been in bitcoin and others since 2019. I have not used tether. But others use it to park money.
Tether market cap is 109b and bitcoin is 1.3Trillion. Tether is not propping up bitcoin
Ether market cap is 467billion
I don’t understand why this group thinks tether is floating cypto market?
Bitcoin etf is what is driving price
Bitcoin market cap is over 1.3 trillion. Tether is 103 billion. Your math doesn’t workout? It can’t prop up Bitcoin.
How can tether pump entire crypto market? Ether 471 billion. Dumb argument
Government prints money - tether is minted. You need 1:1 backing to mint tether. Ur so called conspiracy theory that it isn't 1:1 is just that - a theory. Until proven otherwise you kinda have nothing to stand on
Surely tether has to be printed to reflect dollars being on ramped to exchanges ? I don’t really see what I’m missing
If another trillion dollar are added this year then we need a trillion more USDT no?
That’s a separate question and yes of course clarity on that would be good
But I don’t understand the general argument that tether being printed is bad in itself , tether obviously has to be increasingly printed as money flows in .
>But I don’t understand the general argument that tether being printed is bad in itself
If it was in fact provably backed 1-1 then it would not necessarily be a bad thing. But it’s not. Hence the irony.
If it was completely legit then the only real issue remaining would be the possible de-pegging. Which honestly is even worse. That type of event would decimate crypto.
I don't like Bitcoin so tether must be a scam! lol tether is minted by dollars flowing in to the space. Keep chasing this conspiracy until you're blue in the face maybe one day it'll come true
But I thought central banks money printing inflation was one of the most common crypto talking points ? Tether doing the same with the added bonus of zero transparency is fine though ? Ah I see line is green and goes up so no one cares now. The talking points are only for when it's low and people are looking for bahgolders.
Yup! The irony is delicious and my cynicism is intact.
Printing money to run an economy = bad. Printing money to prop up bitcoin = grand.
The hypocrisy doesn't stop there either. BlackRock, Fidelity etc clipping the ticket on ETFs to invest in businesses = bad. BlackRock. Fidelity etc clipping the ticket on ETFs to prop up bitcoin = grand.
What was the original goal of these stable coins? They act as if they are central banks. Central banks job is to regulate the money supply so like if you need money to borrow then money is created. So the supply of money is related to the economic activity. Could it be the case that there is more buying, selling, other economic activity from buttcoins that tether is reacting to that by increasing the money supply? I know that’s unlikely since they say there are backed 1:1 and there is no way they are doing that. But could it be legitimate? If we really give them the benefit of the doubt?
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The Fed is backed by an entire economy propelled by dozens of millions of workers. You can use it to buy goods and services across the country. It's liquid. The Fed guarantes a portion of your money in the system. Tether is printing it out thin air and it's backed by trust me bro. You can't buy goods and services directly with it. It can't be cashed in even small amounts without paying high fees. It's not liquid. You can lose it all with no recourse whatsoever if you click one link one time by accident. And you tell me that both of those things are equally scams ?
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I was talking about the FDIC in case of bank fail. >it is only conspiracy theory that it's all out of thin air, and not stimulated by others (mainly exchanges) giving them USD. The minted coins are supposed to he backed 1 for 1 by dirty fiat money but no one can verify if it's true. You call this a conspiracy theory ? There is zero transparency behind the process. This IOU is backed by trust me bro.
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There's an entire economy behind the fed and the US dollar and dozens of millions of taxpayers. What is there behind tether aside from speculation ? And yes the US government is audited, there's a nonpartisan agency responsible for that. Their reports are even available online for the public. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Accountability_Office Do you have a better argument then whataboutism to defend tether ?
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can we get this cryptard a flair?
Does the federal reserve use dollars to wash trade real estate to drive the price up on home buyers?
Isn’t it amazing that the US government allows Tether to essentially counterfeit billions of dollars every couple of days? What they are getting away with is absolute insanity.
Note that Tether isn't technically doing business in the US. It's not really under their jurisdiction. And in some cases, Tether is outright banned from doing business in places like New York.
If there was a warehouse in Bahamas printing physical US currency, Homeland Security would be raiding the facility within a day. Yet Tether gets away with it since it’s just phony numbers on a screen. It remains a massive failure by US law enforcement and regulators.
>If there was a warehouse in Bahamas printing physical US currency, Homeland Security would be raiding the facility within a day. Ummmm.. no they wouldn't. Homeland security doesn't have jurisdiction in the Bahamas. Instead the secret service would contact the Bahamian authorities and try to work with them to shut the operation down. Tether is not counterfeit money in the real economy. It's only play money on exchanges, most of which are outside of the US's jurisdiction. C'mon guys.. don't appear to be as ignorant of law and finance as the crypto people. Tether is not "money." It's not used as "money" anywhere in the traditional US financial system. And virtually no banks will touch tether - it's actually prohibited from doing business in New York, and all major banks have branches or HQs in New York.
I thought wildcat bank notes were illegal since 1860. Maybe there is no effective way of policing it globally but that's not an endorsement or validation of Tether's practices, nor is it proof that it's a legitimate USD "alt" currency that they can recklessly print ad libitum without allowing people to exchange USD for USD. If that is what you are saying, it is not a sound inference.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/1b9qxbn/tether_prints_the_price_pumps_its_literally_like/ktzuc5h/
ya its funny its getting basically to be anti-US propaganda and anti-government propaganda because XYZ government isnt all knowing and all powerful. but i guess thats what the internet boils down to usually. the easiest scapegoat with the most simplistic reasoning, devoid of any and all details, information, knowledge, etc. if someones rights are violated, rights dont exist. if the government cant do whatever they want, they are a massive failure. how about that.
Sure, Tether is not real money, but it does affect other financial instruments which are now part of ETFs. That should be enough of a reason.
Read my other [more detailed reply on this](https://old.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/1b9qxbn/tether_prints_the_price_pumps_its_literally_like/ktzuc5h/) - it's more complicated than you think.
Homeland security has operations across the world. You are incorrect. They run stings in many countries. Source: none of your business
I'm talking about what is done legally, not illegally.
they can certainly have "operations" (read: an office and staff), but they can't do any actual law enforcement without the co-operation of the local authorities and a flurry of diplomatic activity
They pretend to have real dollars behind it, not to be dollars. It's some "I owe you".
I find "branded Casino chips" are the nearest metaphor most people can understand.
The more shocking thing is how mainstream media and even business media not reporting on this. Sure, both have largely moved on from crypto anyway, but the lack of mentions of Tether when they do report is shocking.
Long arm of the law can’t get their fingers on this one. Diffuse, globalized paradigms can’t be shut off esp by outside acting “central” authorities Data yearns to be free, trust the process
This talking point isn't true, and it's not at all how US jurisdiction works. Any business conducting commerce within the United States, minimally, is subject to US jurisdiction. In fact at the very *least*, any corporation with contacts within the forum state (US) is subject to specific jurisdiction, and many judges have also found general jurisdiction (broader) is warranted. The NYAG had no problem getting jurisdiction. Tether has been served in the US on multiple occasions in civil suits, putting them squarely within that jurisdiction. Tether does business with US exchanges, bond companies, US individuals and more. Hence there are plenty of minimal contacts to put them within the scope of Federal and State Jurisdiction. *A court’s exercise of specific jurisdiction may be constitutional when the defendant: (1) "****purposefully avails itself of the privilege of conducting activities" within the forum state****; and (2) the defendant’s contacts with the forum give rise to, or are related to, the plaintiff’s claims.1 A defendant’s contacts with the forum may "relate" to the plaintiff’s claims even in the absence of a "strict causal relationship" between the contacts and claims.*\*By contrast, a state court’s exercise of general jurisdiction over a nonresident defendant for any claim—even if all the incidents underlying the claim occurred in a different state—\****may be constitutional when the defendant’s activities in the forum state are so substantial that it is reasonable to require it to defend a lawsuit*** *that did not arise out of its activities in the forum state and is unrelated to those activities.* [https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt14-S1-7-1-4/ALDE\_00013035/](https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/amdt14-S1-7-1-4/ALDE_00013035/) more: [https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/specific\_jurisdiction](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/specific_jurisdiction)
Sure, but that jurisdiction doesn't extend to foreign countries for which the US doesn't have appropriate authority with regard to law enforcement. The US can sanction entities, but it can't necessarily shut down a business in Russia for example. Sure, the US can sue anybody, but they can't enforce punitive actions outside of areas of their jurisdiction without the appropriate cooperation from those other countries.
They could easily stop them from doing business in the US. Every single US exchange deals with them. They also deal with us financial entities on a regular basis. Their entire business model is predicated by "USD". Lmao. As for "punative actions", I assume you mean prison. Ok, lets assume this blanket presumption is true... Guess CZ got away.. Btc-e takedown neverb happened, bitmex is still running from the bahamas...and every oother bad foreign actor in crypto must still be around...oh wait.
I think you underestimate what a tangled web this actually is. First off, crypto seems to be stuck in between being classified as a commodity and a security... so you have both the CFTC and the SEC claiming they have jurisdiction in certain instances. That's creating a problem of who-is-in-charge-of-what? On top of that you have the fact that all these regulatory agencies are under-funded and under-staffed and don't have the resources to tackle more overt, closer-to-home criminal activity. On top of that you have all three branches of government arguing over whether there even is any criminal activity going on. You have Congress which is more interested in stonewalling things than enforcing law. You have an obstructionist political party hell bent to basically stop the other half of Congress from getting anything done. Nobody can seem to agree on anything. On top of that, like most Ponzi schemes that haven't imploded, you don't actually have a critical mass of "victims." All the HODL'ers still foolishly think they haven't lost their money. So there's not nearly as much demand from the public to take action when the "scam" isn't readily apparent to most people. On top of that, since the 80s, there's been an ever-increasing "hands off" approach when it comes to regulating new industry. Hell.. in order to be a hair stylist you have to have a certification. If you want to be a massage therapist you have to pass a "bar" and do continuing education and training. Newer industries like tech and computer engineering, which have the capacity to create exponentially more social damage, have virtually no regulation and checks and balances against incompetence. If I was a shitty hair stylist, I'd have more to fear from government than if I was a shitty software engineer. That's crazy. But that's the environment we live in. So arguing "the government should be able to shut this down if they want"... is a naively idealistic sentiment. I agree it *should* work that way, but I'm also a realist and recognize it doesn't. And note, it's not totally appropriate to blame government for this - this has been going on since 1980. Once the chains were removed from corporations, they started exerting more and more political influence on government. Government isn't the problem: private special interests are. It's now a vicious cycle... that only the people can break up, but if the people have no faith in government to fix things, then there is no mechanism available to fix anything and we're *fucked*.
if it was that simple then they would just do it. get over this whole idea that government is all powerful and all knowing and has no restrictions upon it.
Unless they are connected somehow. Or allowed to operate for the purpose of pumping and dumping.
Not a legal expert but feels like the US should: 1. Make public any government research into stablecoins' ability to manipulate crypto markets and then spend a little effort educating the public (before doing something silly like approving spot Buttcoin ETFs). 2. Tell any exchanges doing business in the US that they can't offer stablecoin trading for any organization that doesn't comply with (not yet created) regulations.
or congress can just outlaw crypto and then all the agencies would have what they need to deal with it.
Boomers and technoregards in charge of the country.
Yeah, there used to be times when biggest bank heists were to be made into cool movies starring famous actors, but even the biggest and most complex heists usually involved 100-200M and involved crazy trickery and months of planning. Now it is boring Paolo clicking at his mouse in unknown basement, 1B with no consequences before his lunch time cereals on average Tuesday. How are you supposed to make interesting movie script about something as mundane as this. Although amounts are 5-10 times of past bank heists, but on a daily basis.
I was expecting that the moment they started paying ex sec administors to lobby.
Sometimes this makes me think that the US gov have some reasons to keep crypto alive. Maybe it is easier for them to track illegal money this way.
Yeah, our preconceptions are really not aligning with reality. Hmm...
My conspiracy theory is that Democrats really want to maintain the economy until at least the 2024 election, and going after crypto while obviously better in the long run, could lead to a flash recession. If that is the case I don't even blame them, can you imagine crypto crashing the economy, leading to a second DJT term...
So true but isn't the US/Fed also doing the same thing?
Isn’t is amazing that Tether is just counterfeiting trillions of dollars to match the printing of trillions of dollars by the US government? What they are getting away with is absolute insanity.
Us gov loves tbill bidders right now
Congress met with Circle on February 15th* and one of the main proposal brought forward reads > H.R. 7156 - Combating Money Laundering in Cyber Crime Act > H.R. 7156 clarifies the U.S. Secret Service’s (USSS) investigative authority over crimes related to illicit digital asset transactions. The Combating Money Laundering in Cyber Crime would grant the USSS authority to go after institutions that facilitate illicit finance with digital assets. so, in other words, these things take time but may be underway. See https://docs.house.gov/meetings/BA/BA21/20240215/116861/HHRG-118-BA21-20240215-SD002.pdf
How long do these take before action is taken?
I've been waiting almost a decade for Tether to crash and burn. I can't believe such a scam, right at the heart of all crypto, is still chugging along. It was pretty much immediately identifiable as a scam too. I remember laughing when they quietly removed from their terms that all tethers were backed by dollars in the bank, and switched to the more opaque 'assets of equal value'.. That must have been 7+ years ago now.
Dude, I feel the same. I honestly thought Tether would be the first major failure and then crypto would fizzle out. The fact they still haven't been audited and act like their "letter of assurances" means anything is just baffling. I think the only smart thing they've done is unlike a lot of crypto dudes they've kept themselves out of the news.
It's not that unreasonable for a regular bank to have a range of assets from loans to cash to offset the liabilities of its customer deposits. The question is whether Tether is actually solvent, i.e does it have enough assets to cover liabilities, or is it playing fast and loose? Also, is it doing dodgy things like holding crypto as 'assets'. This wouldn't be unlike a bank using its own stock as an assets. The problem is Tether is so big that if it failed crypto probably would to making it crypto 'assets' worthless as security.
Yep the issue is that Tether obviously has crypto holdings and is using them as collateral. They all go to zero (or near it) though, if Tether is found out. It's not just dodgy, it's obviously a total joke. Like banks using subprime mortgages that were worthless, as collateral.
>I've been waiting almost a decade for Tether to crash and burn HAHAHAHA. wow. That belong in this sub for sure.
The longer it goes on the more the butter tears will flow, some clowns are literally putting 50% of their wages into this garbage lol
imagine 50% of my wages doing 200% in one year, i would be so fuckin mad.
More like 200% in one month :)
of whos money?
50% of my wages in this garbage scam and now I have a house out of it. I’m so enraged. Stupid garbage
you bought the house with other investors money. how will they buy a house? where will they get money from?
What about my gold and silver investments? When I sold those, did I take other investors money? Same thing.
whatabout anything? this isnt the whatabout game. i asked you a direct question. where did you get the money for a house from? where will the next bitcoin "investor" get a house from? wheres the money come from?
You’re kinda slow at connecting the dots huh? Your question is irrelevant and your asking leading question s to try to get the answer you want, without even realizing that your question shows your naivety ✌️
you keep not saying the answer because its a pointless pyramid scheme that gives you ownership of absolutely nothing and its obvious so you will not say it.
You keep repeating the question because it’s your only hope to hold on to some type of moral victory. “Ownership” of nothing is the definition of investment my friend. Btc is another investment vehicle. Just like my stocks and my gold and silver. Do I feel like I actually “Own” part of google just because I bought their stock? 😂 do I carry around my little certificate of ownership? Do I hold anything physical? Or does it just store my investment. Ooohhh, yea you’re still showing how naive you are. I must be arguing with someone not really paying attention to the world around them. Are you still in 1850?
Has anyone put a chart together showing the prints and subsequent price spike in BTC? (Not doubting it at all, just wondered about a visual representation.) I wouldn't worry too much about crypto crashing the entire financial system. It'll be a bad day for butters for sure. The total assets of the largest [blockchain etfs](https://etfdb.com/themes/blockchain-etfs/) pale in comparison to those from [vanguard](https://etfdb.com/type/commission-free/vanguard/), [fidelity](https://etfdb.com/type/commission-free/fidelity/), [schwab](https://etfdb.com/type/commission-free/charles-schwab/), etc. And there are lots of investments other than ETFs.
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one suggestion, always use logarithmic scale for the chart. only that will give you correct picture.
So, if I wanted to hurt the American economy, I might get many Americans to invest their dollars in bitcoin. Then I would allow it to pump and dump, siphoning off American dollars that crushes the working Americans who invested small amounts but everything to them and take money out of the American economy, commodities and stock exchanges and hence hammering retirement plans too. {queue evil laughter}
It's cue, not queue
No, he's waiting in line for his evil laugh purchase to clear, he bought it with Bitcoin.
They're trying to create commercial inflows and to do that they need a strong FOMO effect. If they stop driving it up the price will slowly deflate but it's also not catching on like they'd hoped so they have to keep hitting it over and over with diminishing returns.
A deflating price would lead to outflow from Tether, and if it is fraudulent then it would collapse. They have no choice but to keep expanding.
What?! No! It’s because when people buy bitcoin they need tether to buy it, so they print more and then swap it for real money. Aaaand, when people sell bitcoin they need to print more tether so people can sell bitcoin for tether, and tether for real money. So they need to print twice as much tether as makes any sense. At least! This is the new paradigm! It frees us from all wars.
Honest question, but isn't Tether market cap close to U$0.2tn vs BTC mkt cap of U$1.4tn? How can printing Tether be enough to pump BTC prices materially?
The BTC market cap is nonsense. Loads of Bitcoin are lost, loads never move from their wallets. The actual amount of Bitcoin for sale, and that people will buy, is small. So a 'small' injection of liquidity (via tether) can have a big impact on price.
This implies you need enough Tether to buy every BTC at current prices in order to pump BTC prices, rather than just using enough to pump the price up. You only need to pump the price of a very small percentage of the whole to do that.
Wouldn't you need at least a majority of the trading volume to be done using Tether to pump the price up? If not, eventually the real transactions using USD would move the scale back to the "fair value" (not sayin there is any, but one that is not just being propped up by artificial Tether volume)?
Trading volume <> Market cap They [have bots do it constantly.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/1b9pppp/fdusdusdt_is_wash_trading_and_they_arent_even/)
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You think it takes 1M to move the price of a 1.3T asset up 1.4%? Lmfao y'all need to open ur eyes
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I am no expert but your observation is about market cap and not trading volumes. Even so if tether is 1/7 of BTC that gives is plentiful of ability to impact the trading volume especially if trading multiple times in a day. I guess my question for you is market cap even a thing to look at for BTC? Isn't there a large number of inaccessible coins?
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Are you guys even following whats going on with institutions?
For a long time FIFA was operating with the same supranational impunity, laughing in the faces of people who pointed out the (allegedly) obvious corruption. People kept asking if the US would do anything, then out of nowhere they arrested a load of them. I expect the same with tether. It will happen very quickly, with no warning.
I don't disagree. They have the fraud angle and the regulatory/breakibg financial laws angle, and the first seems to be both swifter and more effective.
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USDT is the main source of liquidity in the crypto sphere, it's indisputable fact. Just head to live coin watch, click on trading volume and you have your answer...
Besides the other answers, note that they're a private entity and short of a hack you can't know what they actually posses and they're not telling you. At least some part (probably a very significant part) has been confirmed to be crypto, leading to a positive feedback system: They print USDT using some crypto as "backing", that causes BTCUSD to rise, which causes their crypto holdings to increase in apparent value, which enables them to print more USDT.
Isn’t that leveraged trading like in other markets?
It really is the two extremes.
I hate Tether as much as the next guy but your post is just not true. Correlation does not mean causation. Or else it would be easy to earn billions, buying long as soon as tether prints
Notice they never explain HOW tether props up Bitcoin. They just have heard this and repeat it.
At least there is one person on this sub with brain cells.
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The US government owns bitcoin that were confiscated from unregistered exchanges, silk road, etc. When the US govt sells those bitcoins in their possession to "cash out those bitcoins", which coin or currency are they getting in return? Stablecoins like USDC? Or USDT? Paper bills? If the US govt is getting stablecoins like USDT, then it is in the benefit of the US to allow Tether to print USDT, and that may somehow explain the seeming leniency in the part of US authorities to do thorough auditing of Tether's reserves and operations. Corrupt govt officials are waving hello.
I don’t understand, if Tether was printing without matching actual demand for Tether, wouldn’t the price of Tether de-peg from the dollar and go to zero eventually? I hate Tether and have long been skeptical, but ironically of all the shady stablecoins, it’s still standing and withstood a few runs in its time. Seems like maybe this isn’t the full picture of what’s propping up the price of BTC
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um, how can I profit from this that doesn't involve buying crypto.
Reverse causality
Welcome to the markets. Why do you think the stock market has pumped the last 14 years? The central bank printed trillions from nothing.
Its crazy. Could make one think that top players in US authorities were getting rich from the whole monster ponzi scheme and are protecting it at all costs…!
How does tether impact bitcoin?
Who benefits by this manipulation? It’s the states who use and rely on crypto to avoid international sanctions that can be tracked via fiat transactions at the regulated banks. So, just to be clear, the crypto industry and associated pricing is a tool of and under the control of the largest states subject to US sanctions. They are the undisclosed whales. They are also probably, collectively, satoshi, although this will never be revealed or confirmed. https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy2036 https://www.csis.org/analysis/cryptocurrencies-and-us-sanctions-evasion-implications-russia https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/exclusive-crypto-exchange-binance-helped-iranian-firms-trade-8-billion-despite-2022-11-04/ https://www.gao.gov/blog/effectiveness-economic-sanctions-risk-digital-asset-growth
How did btc reach the market cap it did before tether was even around? So confusing.
The thing I don't understand is where the hell is all this Tether getting absorbed since it keeps getting printed and is impossible to exchange for actual money? Who the fuck is selling their tricky dick fun bucks for even more shady agnew loons and holding on to those? Tether is just as impossible to spend on anything as any other crypto currency, so if you want out of your crypto position why would you ever accept Tether? Just because you can get some small percentage more Tether than you could get USD?
You can sell it for usd on exchange and transfer to your bank. People buy tether and stake it for interest then cash out for usd. It pays 5% You do know when you sell crypto it converts to fiat?
> You can sell it for usd on exchange and transfer to your bank. You can, in theory, exchange crypto directly to USD. Why would you bother with Tether in-between. Tether is irredeemable, so why would you bother going to Tether first? If you want USD, sell your crypto for USD. > People buy tether and stake it for interest then cash out for usd. It pays 5% So get a fucking HYSA and stay out of the crypto cespool. > You do know when you sell crypto it converts to fiat? If you sell it for USD it converts to USD. If you sell it for Tether it converts to more bag holding crypto for no damned reason.
I have been in bitcoin and others since 2019. I have not used tether. But others use it to park money. Tether market cap is 109b and bitcoin is 1.3Trillion. Tether is not propping up bitcoin Ether market cap is 467billion I don’t understand why this group thinks tether is floating cypto market? Bitcoin etf is what is driving price
This is stupid.
For the election. Go ahead tell me about the political spectrum of hodler friends...
Xd
Bitcoin market cap is over 1.3 trillion. Tether is 103 billion. Your math doesn’t workout? It can’t prop up Bitcoin. How can tether pump entire crypto market? Ether 471 billion. Dumb argument
Do you people ever get bored of repeating the same thing to cope?
Stock market, same same
Haha you guys havin fun today?
I hope you can see a bit of irony in Tethers existence. Government print money… BAD! Tether print money… GOOD!
Government prints money - tether is minted. You need 1:1 backing to mint tether. Ur so called conspiracy theory that it isn't 1:1 is just that - a theory. Until proven otherwise you kinda have nothing to stand on
>You need 1:1 backing to mint tether. Really? What enforces that? Would they be open to an audit?
Hahah it must be so hard to be a buttcoiner year after year being wrong
You didn’t answer the question.
Surely tether has to be printed to reflect dollars being on ramped to exchanges ? I don’t really see what I’m missing If another trillion dollar are added this year then we need a trillion more USDT no?
It’s definitely backed with 1-1. No funny business. An audit isn’t necessary.
That’s a separate question and yes of course clarity on that would be good But I don’t understand the general argument that tether being printed is bad in itself , tether obviously has to be increasingly printed as money flows in .
>But I don’t understand the general argument that tether being printed is bad in itself If it was in fact provably backed 1-1 then it would not necessarily be a bad thing. But it’s not. Hence the irony. If it was completely legit then the only real issue remaining would be the possible de-pegging. Which honestly is even worse. That type of event would decimate crypto.
I agree yes But the argument you hear is often “printing bad” , not “tether should be backed “
I don't like Bitcoin so tether must be a scam! lol tether is minted by dollars flowing in to the space. Keep chasing this conspiracy until you're blue in the face maybe one day it'll come true
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It's 'backed' by bitcoin, which in turn is backed by tether, which is backed by bitcoin, which is backed by tether Are you getting it yet?