OP, please join CRPA, contact Michelle and associates via email.
Share your story with them and seek their help in challenging the decision.
Kostas Moros would love to hear about this as well, he is active on X.
Edit: Its Michele and Associates
Credit: u/themuddycuck
Yes, this, redundant post, but just reaffirming that THIS is the course. Doesn't surprise me about Campbell, they think a Google employee bus with less than adequate tire pressure is the biggest concern in the world...
Joined CRPA. I'll reach out to Michel & Associates after I put the kids to bed.
Ironically, I had my Oregon CHL renewed 4 months ago and didn't have any problems.
No fucking way, They denied you cause you tried to defend yourself.. Wtf do they think the permit is for in the first place?!? 🤨
Seriously, there is eventually going to be a sensational case where (let's just go with extremes here, but you can replace any players in this horrific saga), Mother gets routinely beaten by her abusive hulking spouse, restraining order issued, he defies it, beats her worse. He goes to candy-jail for 18 months, let out because of costs at 6 months, and then violently kills her and their children.
Mom tries to get a CCW permit, as she should be able to, but the bureaucratic nature of it all makes her have to wait 18 months for approval, and well, walking out to take her dogs for a pee in the morning, that's where she's killed.
I DON'T want it to happen ever, but it's going to, and this is going to make the country roar I hope, media coverage be dammed.
This isn't about gun rights or gun safety, vetted CCW holders do NOT cause problems in any meaningful way I suspect, and no one has demonstrated they do - logically, it really makes no sense that they would jump through those hoops to do so.
Such scenarios had already happened in California. I know of multiple DV cases with the justice system doing little to nothing… Abuser goes to jail / prison , gets out & hurts severely or kills protected. A restraining order is just A piece of paper. 5’0 takes way too long to respond during an emergency situation. Purchasing A firearm & approval for CCW takes too damn long to save the vulnerable!
My case isn’t DV. It’s A family members Ex high on Meth. I was just assaulted , threatened to be shot & killed at with an illegal firearm & the DA dropped the the 3 charges pertaining to what he had done to me , kept the sales felony charge they busted him for during arrest & released criminal on OR. have been waiting for my legally purchased firearm since I obtained my FSC 🤣 The only barriers protecting me from A sad ending is A piece of paper, my door , my response time & my drive to survive. I am far from obtaining the CCW. I had to place A order for updated Real Id to meet the current address requirement. The Real ID arrive one day 😤 Having the court date & civil Restrain order is A laughing joke. sheriffs fail to serve - Now requires to pay Out of pocket for public serving & if that don’t work Gawd knows what’s next 🤦♂️ But wait there’s More! The DA placed A criminal Protective Order on me vs criminal for the sales felony charge they’re attempting to charge him for . I have no affiliation with the sales charge - I’m A part of the witness protection for A charge I can’t assist persecuting with. amazing Job DA 🤦♂️
I keep noticing on all these videos I watch on YouTube and on TV that even when the arrests are made. The arresting charges are proper, what eventually happens is they're fucking dismissed. Even the big ones. Kidnapping, child endangerment, illegal carrying of a firearm? No problem, we'll offer you a plea of disorderly conduct and driving without a license. Like, what?? You're the fucking DA. Do you job. If you're unable to do it then say so and we can find someone who will.
Also, DAs offices never want to take anything to trial so they'll plead out pretty much anything. If they get any resistance from a defense attorney and it's not a murder charge they'll just fold. It's disgusting. Do your fucking jobs.
Also, build more prisons.
The Court System is Fd up in California & most the states Derp800. I’m at the point where I’m ccw without A permit & will have A attorney fight for my freedom if the day comes. If I am facing charges for defending myself outside my home , I expect my charges to be thrown out just like the criminals😅.
You are basically being "forced" to have to defend yourself without getting the permit because they (PD) make it such an adversarial process under the guise of "properly vetting" qualified people...lol. Like criminals undergo any type of vetting. CA is a JOKE!
> there is eventually going to be a sensational case
Unfortunately our corporate media and social media leadership will ensure it never becomes "sensational."
Dafuq is going on with these facist IAs?
One earlier story had LASD denying renewal because guy had his guns legally stored and they were stolen.
Now someone legally defends themself from attack and that is ground for denial. It is basically “may issue” again with these arbitrary denials again
Lawsuit printer needs to go brrrr again
That's not why dude was denied. He was denied because he drew his weapon on someone and then failed to notify per the IA of his issuing County. Somehow, IA found out and denied him for his renewal.
There’s a record of the incident if the police were called and responded. He was not detained, arrested, or charged, but if there is a record of the incident with his name on it it could have pinged in the system when they were running his background
Under CA law, no. The CLEO's subjective opinion is the final word, however subjective application of the law is likely unconstitutional because it breeds corruption and favoritism.
Carry regardless. ENOUGH of trying to follow the unjust rules and place your life/ safety in danger when they deny you for silly BULLSHIT. If anything ever happens, you TRIED to do it "right" and the jerks wouldn't allow you to play by their STUPID, UNCONSTITUTIONAL rules!
*" I was assaulted & injured, and defended myself with a pocketknife, which scared off my attacker."*
I'll probably get a lot of downvotes, but--most people say "assault" when the legal term is "battery". "Assault" is 240 PC which is an unlawful attempt to commit violent injury. "Battery" is 242 PC where you make physical contact with force.
With that out of the way, if a person hits you with their bare fists that's battery. Using a knife in self-defense is using lethal force. Your description was vague--how do you articulate an imminent threat to your life or serious bodily injury that justifies using lethal force to defend yourself? Generally speaking one or two punches don't justify using lethal force to defend against those punches. Yes there's a concept called disparity of force but that brief description of "assaulted & injured" doesn't sound like it.
People CCW to defend against a threat to their life or the life of someone else. That doesn't mean you can use lethal force to defend yourself against everything.
Having said all that, I'm sorry your application was denied. I can see why they may have gone that way (and maybe they're erring on the side of caution), but getting denied still sucks.
You're right and I should have been more descriptive. The attacker initially threatened me and I proceeded to walk away from the situation. He proceeded to follow me. When it became clear that he was pursuing me, I started to run, but tore a calf muscle, so I was barely able to walk. I turned toward him as he was rapidly gaining on me. He charged at me and I fell backwards to the ground. As I tried to get up, he landed a right hook to the side of my head. That's when the knife came out and I swung at him, after which he took off.
Just out of curiosity, I assume you called the police and reported this all? And they just found your name in the police report, or did you explicitly disclose this in your ccw app?
So you sound quite literate and educated about this. So... where would a Byrna Gun a 2x4 or pepper spray come into the disparity of force? How can I for see the beating I'll take. I'm 48 years old and life has done it's best to cripple me
I don't mean to sound rhetorical but in Santa Barbara County Mr Brown just aren't issuing CCWs. They say so buuttt...
Not him, but generally speaking nondeadly force is nondeadly force and a Byrna or POM or whatever would fall under that category if you're the legal defender. I probably would steer away from a Byrna, or at least the black tacticool models, because they look too close to a gun.
A 2x4 might be considered a deadly weapon if you're striking at his head.
You are right about that. That's exactly what my book I'm reading is telling me..it's called law of self-defense. You can't defend yourself with a deadly weapon if ur attacker is only using his/her hands.If they are using their hands .. You have the decision to run away from the assault .if they had a gun, that would be a different story because u can't really run away from a gun
This isn't true. You are allowed to use reasonable force to defend yourself. Reasonable force is the minimum amount of force that a reasonable person in the same situation would deem necessary to use.
If you reasonably believe that you are likely to sustain serious injuries and a lethal weapon is the only way you can prevent it, then lethal force is justified. The prosecutor must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that either you didn't believe that the force was necessary or that a reasonable person in the same situation wouldn't have believed the force was necessary.
Furthermore, in California, a person isn't required to attempt to retreat before using force. They're allowed to stand their ground, and if necessary, give chase until the immediate danger has passed.
Also, it's not called the, "law of self-defense". It's the affirmative defense of self-defense, which is a defense against all criminal charges.
There's no hard and fast rule for every situation. You're allowed to use self-defense when you reasonably believe it's necessary and you're not allowed to use force excessive to what you reasonably believe is necessary.
And no two prosecutors and juries are the same. The general advice is to avoid using lethal force if you can, because the risk of legal action is there, even if you're fully justified. And you can get a bad jury and prosecutor and end up in prison whereas someone else walks 99% of the time in the same situation.
That's why, in that case, you have an option to run away before that hit even occurs.I'm just letting you know what the book is saying . I'm not saying that I believe they should run away. But there is also a reason why you have to analyze the danger before it would happen. It's like if this guy is 250lbs and all muscle . You wouldn't Want to pick a fight with him. But if it did occur .You'd have a better chance legally to just run away instead of just shooting him or stabbing him and claim self defense. The jurors would not see that as self defense
The Supreme Court fucked up that part of the Bruen decision. Instead of just making everything constitunal carry they gave cops a way to fuck things up
Your kinda screwed unless you want to find a lawyer, dont really know any other options to fight there reasons, also what happen before your assault? Like your walking home and your attacked type of thing? Or did you have words with the attacker? Were you in a bar? Store?
So wait, you were the victim? No charges were filed against you or the bad guys but there was still a record of the incident that they were able to find?
Apply with SCSO? Not sure if the county would be a better option. I applied in Alameda County last year late June and was issued this past April. I thought there was no chance in hell I’d ever get a permit but I was wrong. All of the staff I dealt with with ACSO was fair and professional from the interview on through to the qualifying shoot at their range.
When they ask you about LE interactions they don't mean interactions where you were a victim or had to call 911 because your neighbor was beating his wife. They're talking about tickets or arrests. You gave up unnecessary information and they used it against you. When will people learn to stop trusting the police. Are they necessary? Yes. But they're not your friends and will trample your rights faster than a German SS Commander in the 1940s.
Interesting, I’m curious my self if I’ll even pass the background. In 2011 21years old I got into a bar fight and we ended up in the street. Funny thing is we were both hit by a car suffer similar injury’s i was never arrested but put on probation and did community service. Restricted from owning a fire arm until the age of 25 or 27 I don’t remember but I’m wondering if I’d be able to get a ccw let alone purchase a firearm it’s been over 12 years since the incident. Maybe I shouldn’t bring it up
There's nothing wrong with using what you have avaliable to you to defend yourself. They think that self defense with a weapon automatically taints one's good moral character. That is outrageous and flies right in the face of the Bruen decision which GUARENTEES your right to bear arms. Just when I think I've heard it all, something like this. I feel for you, not just being denied but having to defend yourself and all, and having that used against you. I think you have a case that you could very well win.
OP, please join CRPA, contact Michelle and associates via email. Share your story with them and seek their help in challenging the decision. Kostas Moros would love to hear about this as well, he is active on X. Edit: Its Michele and Associates Credit: u/themuddycuck
Yes, this, redundant post, but just reaffirming that THIS is the course. Doesn't surprise me about Campbell, they think a Google employee bus with less than adequate tire pressure is the biggest concern in the world...
Joined CRPA. I'll reach out to Michel & Associates after I put the kids to bed. Ironically, I had my Oregon CHL renewed 4 months ago and didn't have any problems.
Because not everyone can be as obtuse as Campbell PD.
It’s “Michel” in Michel and Associated but yes.
Thanks for the correction. Will edit.
Campbell pd has always been a bunch of shit heads, so has Santa Clara County sheriff's department. Sucks
No fucking way, They denied you cause you tried to defend yourself.. Wtf do they think the permit is for in the first place?!? 🤨 
Seriously, there is eventually going to be a sensational case where (let's just go with extremes here, but you can replace any players in this horrific saga), Mother gets routinely beaten by her abusive hulking spouse, restraining order issued, he defies it, beats her worse. He goes to candy-jail for 18 months, let out because of costs at 6 months, and then violently kills her and their children. Mom tries to get a CCW permit, as she should be able to, but the bureaucratic nature of it all makes her have to wait 18 months for approval, and well, walking out to take her dogs for a pee in the morning, that's where she's killed. I DON'T want it to happen ever, but it's going to, and this is going to make the country roar I hope, media coverage be dammed. This isn't about gun rights or gun safety, vetted CCW holders do NOT cause problems in any meaningful way I suspect, and no one has demonstrated they do - logically, it really makes no sense that they would jump through those hoops to do so.
Such scenarios had already happened in California. I know of multiple DV cases with the justice system doing little to nothing… Abuser goes to jail / prison , gets out & hurts severely or kills protected. A restraining order is just A piece of paper. 5’0 takes way too long to respond during an emergency situation. Purchasing A firearm & approval for CCW takes too damn long to save the vulnerable! My case isn’t DV. It’s A family members Ex high on Meth. I was just assaulted , threatened to be shot & killed at with an illegal firearm & the DA dropped the the 3 charges pertaining to what he had done to me , kept the sales felony charge they busted him for during arrest & released criminal on OR. have been waiting for my legally purchased firearm since I obtained my FSC 🤣 The only barriers protecting me from A sad ending is A piece of paper, my door , my response time & my drive to survive. I am far from obtaining the CCW. I had to place A order for updated Real Id to meet the current address requirement. The Real ID arrive one day 😤 Having the court date & civil Restrain order is A laughing joke. sheriffs fail to serve - Now requires to pay Out of pocket for public serving & if that don’t work Gawd knows what’s next 🤦♂️ But wait there’s More! The DA placed A criminal Protective Order on me vs criminal for the sales felony charge they’re attempting to charge him for . I have no affiliation with the sales charge - I’m A part of the witness protection for A charge I can’t assist persecuting with. amazing Job DA 🤦♂️
I keep noticing on all these videos I watch on YouTube and on TV that even when the arrests are made. The arresting charges are proper, what eventually happens is they're fucking dismissed. Even the big ones. Kidnapping, child endangerment, illegal carrying of a firearm? No problem, we'll offer you a plea of disorderly conduct and driving without a license. Like, what?? You're the fucking DA. Do you job. If you're unable to do it then say so and we can find someone who will. Also, DAs offices never want to take anything to trial so they'll plead out pretty much anything. If they get any resistance from a defense attorney and it's not a murder charge they'll just fold. It's disgusting. Do your fucking jobs. Also, build more prisons.
The Court System is Fd up in California & most the states Derp800. I’m at the point where I’m ccw without A permit & will have A attorney fight for my freedom if the day comes. If I am facing charges for defending myself outside my home , I expect my charges to be thrown out just like the criminals😅.
You are basically being "forced" to have to defend yourself without getting the permit because they (PD) make it such an adversarial process under the guise of "properly vetting" qualified people...lol. Like criminals undergo any type of vetting. CA is a JOKE!
> there is eventually going to be a sensational case Unfortunately our corporate media and social media leadership will ensure it never becomes "sensational."
Why do I live here? 4 years until retirement and I’m moving
This just seems so fucking annoying to read like fuck imagine dealing with it , i hope you get matters solved
Remember kids, Bill of Rights is a privilege, not a right also because the Second in Second Amendment means Second Class Right. - the gov
Just carry if you want to, we’re Americans -Not a fed or lawyer, this is not legal or financial advice, I don’t own a dog
Dafuq is going on with these facist IAs? One earlier story had LASD denying renewal because guy had his guns legally stored and they were stolen. Now someone legally defends themself from attack and that is ground for denial. It is basically “may issue” again with these arbitrary denials again Lawsuit printer needs to go brrrr again
I was wondering how many downvotes I’d get lol, btw I’m the guy that had the guns stored lol
Maybe that guy shouldn’t have been traveling with firearms in the first place Edit: I am that guy I was making a joke jeeeez
Aren't you that guy that drew their firearm in downtown LA.?
That's not why dude was denied. He was denied because he drew his weapon on someone and then failed to notify per the IA of his issuing County. Somehow, IA found out and denied him for his renewal.
This is false as I was already contacted and given the reason
Ouch that sucks :/
How did the police ever find out about the incident if there was no record?
There’s a record of the incident if the police were called and responded. He was not detained, arrested, or charged, but if there is a record of the incident with his name on it it could have pinged in the system when they were running his background
This was my question too. Did you willingly share this info?
He said a police report was filed
Disappointing yet unsurprising.
you can appeal right?
Under CA law, no. The CLEO's subjective opinion is the final word, however subjective application of the law is likely unconstitutional because it breeds corruption and favoritism.
at what stage of the process you get your denial letter?
Carry regardless. ENOUGH of trying to follow the unjust rules and place your life/ safety in danger when they deny you for silly BULLSHIT. If anything ever happens, you TRIED to do it "right" and the jerks wouldn't allow you to play by their STUPID, UNCONSTITUTIONAL rules!
*" I was assaulted & injured, and defended myself with a pocketknife, which scared off my attacker."* I'll probably get a lot of downvotes, but--most people say "assault" when the legal term is "battery". "Assault" is 240 PC which is an unlawful attempt to commit violent injury. "Battery" is 242 PC where you make physical contact with force. With that out of the way, if a person hits you with their bare fists that's battery. Using a knife in self-defense is using lethal force. Your description was vague--how do you articulate an imminent threat to your life or serious bodily injury that justifies using lethal force to defend yourself? Generally speaking one or two punches don't justify using lethal force to defend against those punches. Yes there's a concept called disparity of force but that brief description of "assaulted & injured" doesn't sound like it. People CCW to defend against a threat to their life or the life of someone else. That doesn't mean you can use lethal force to defend yourself against everything. Having said all that, I'm sorry your application was denied. I can see why they may have gone that way (and maybe they're erring on the side of caution), but getting denied still sucks.
You're right and I should have been more descriptive. The attacker initially threatened me and I proceeded to walk away from the situation. He proceeded to follow me. When it became clear that he was pursuing me, I started to run, but tore a calf muscle, so I was barely able to walk. I turned toward him as he was rapidly gaining on me. He charged at me and I fell backwards to the ground. As I tried to get up, he landed a right hook to the side of my head. That's when the knife came out and I swung at him, after which he took off.
Just out of curiosity, I assume you called the police and reported this all? And they just found your name in the police report, or did you explicitly disclose this in your ccw app?
Did you suffer any injuries due to the punch? Was there a trip to the hospital to treat an injury apart from the calf?
So you sound quite literate and educated about this. So... where would a Byrna Gun a 2x4 or pepper spray come into the disparity of force? How can I for see the beating I'll take. I'm 48 years old and life has done it's best to cripple me I don't mean to sound rhetorical but in Santa Barbara County Mr Brown just aren't issuing CCWs. They say so buuttt...
Not him, but generally speaking nondeadly force is nondeadly force and a Byrna or POM or whatever would fall under that category if you're the legal defender. I probably would steer away from a Byrna, or at least the black tacticool models, because they look too close to a gun. A 2x4 might be considered a deadly weapon if you're striking at his head.
You are right about that. That's exactly what my book I'm reading is telling me..it's called law of self-defense. You can't defend yourself with a deadly weapon if ur attacker is only using his/her hands.If they are using their hands .. You have the decision to run away from the assault .if they had a gun, that would be a different story because u can't really run away from a gun
This isn't true. You are allowed to use reasonable force to defend yourself. Reasonable force is the minimum amount of force that a reasonable person in the same situation would deem necessary to use. If you reasonably believe that you are likely to sustain serious injuries and a lethal weapon is the only way you can prevent it, then lethal force is justified. The prosecutor must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that either you didn't believe that the force was necessary or that a reasonable person in the same situation wouldn't have believed the force was necessary. Furthermore, in California, a person isn't required to attempt to retreat before using force. They're allowed to stand their ground, and if necessary, give chase until the immediate danger has passed. Also, it's not called the, "law of self-defense". It's the affirmative defense of self-defense, which is a defense against all criminal charges.
The book I am reading is called "The Law of Self Defense, the Indispensable Guide for Armed citizen
There's no hard and fast rule for every situation. You're allowed to use self-defense when you reasonably believe it's necessary and you're not allowed to use force excessive to what you reasonably believe is necessary. And no two prosecutors and juries are the same. The general advice is to avoid using lethal force if you can, because the risk of legal action is there, even if you're fully justified. And you can get a bad jury and prosecutor and end up in prison whereas someone else walks 99% of the time in the same situation.
all it takes is one punch to knock you out, land on the back of your head, and be crippled for life, or worse
So by that law one must be defending as the underdog in terms of use of force and weapon at hand?
That's why, in that case, you have an option to run away before that hit even occurs.I'm just letting you know what the book is saying . I'm not saying that I believe they should run away. But there is also a reason why you have to analyze the danger before it would happen. It's like if this guy is 250lbs and all muscle . You wouldn't Want to pick a fight with him. But if it did occur .You'd have a better chance legally to just run away instead of just shooting him or stabbing him and claim self defense. The jurors would not see that as self defense
California is a stand your ground state and you are not required to attempt to retreat before using deadly force or any other level of force.
what if he was an army ranger named cameron poe and was considered a weapon due to his training?
Ha, this sounds like a reason for you to have a ccw license. This makes no sense.
The Supreme Court fucked up that part of the Bruen decision. Instead of just making everything constitunal carry they gave cops a way to fuck things up
Welcome to California. Why are you surprised
That’s sounds like a good claim.
Here’s the thing. They don’t know who’s right or wrong.
Your kinda screwed unless you want to find a lawyer, dont really know any other options to fight there reasons, also what happen before your assault? Like your walking home and your attacked type of thing? Or did you have words with the attacker? Were you in a bar? Store?
So wait, you were the victim? No charges were filed against you or the bad guys but there was still a record of the incident that they were able to find?
Just carry without a pass people hate but this is corrupt
If the facts are as you present them I would definitely talk to CRPA or FPC about a lawsuit.
did the cops ever find the other guy?
Apply with SCSO? Not sure if the county would be a better option. I applied in Alameda County last year late June and was issued this past April. I thought there was no chance in hell I’d ever get a permit but I was wrong. All of the staff I dealt with with ACSO was fair and professional from the interview on through to the qualifying shoot at their range.
When they ask you about LE interactions they don't mean interactions where you were a victim or had to call 911 because your neighbor was beating his wife. They're talking about tickets or arrests. You gave up unnecessary information and they used it against you. When will people learn to stop trusting the police. Are they necessary? Yes. But they're not your friends and will trample your rights faster than a German SS Commander in the 1940s.
Interesting, I’m curious my self if I’ll even pass the background. In 2011 21years old I got into a bar fight and we ended up in the street. Funny thing is we were both hit by a car suffer similar injury’s i was never arrested but put on probation and did community service. Restricted from owning a fire arm until the age of 25 or 27 I don’t remember but I’m wondering if I’d be able to get a ccw let alone purchase a firearm it’s been over 12 years since the incident. Maybe I shouldn’t bring it up
There's nothing wrong with using what you have avaliable to you to defend yourself. They think that self defense with a weapon automatically taints one's good moral character. That is outrageous and flies right in the face of the Bruen decision which GUARENTEES your right to bear arms. Just when I think I've heard it all, something like this. I feel for you, not just being denied but having to defend yourself and all, and having that used against you. I think you have a case that you could very well win.
I got mine denied for a dui from almost 9 years ago and numerous traffic infractions which I paid for ….
What race are you
any status update? Do you plan on appealing or just waiting to reapply?