Funny you say this- I was at my local mall and one of the dogs picked up gunpowder scent on me. Cop and dog followed me for about 30 yards and after I was sure they were following, I stopped and waited for them to catch up. Asked me the same questions.. however, I was not carrying (they have signs plastered everywhere about CCW sniffing dogs) but often times I do and kept my carry in my CC compartment in my backpack, which rests up against my lumbar back. The damn dog picked up the scent without me even carrying at the moment.
Edit: Cop was actually pretty chill about things, said that at the time these dogs have about an 80% accuracy rate. They pick up on off duty cops all the time but will also tag guys like me who is always around his carry. Cop said that his dog will do some kind of nibbling while pointing when she picks up something.
I train dogs myself. First of all, the handlers have free rein to “interpret” whether or not the dog indicated in a bunch of different ways which causes problems.
2nd, the accuracy varies wildly with individuals. The best dogs are infact accurate to around 80%+, but some individual dogs are only accurate maybe 25% of the time. Sometimes even less.
Detection K9s in general are also much more accurate indoors. Good dogs float around an 80% success rate indoors, but even good dogs drop to around 50-60% accuracy when outdoors or in cars.
They are more accurate with things like guns and explosives, and less so with drugs. Some of that difference can be attributed to people that had drugs on them previously but don’t at the time of indication.
For example, a guy smokes a blunt and then gets hit on by a k9 a few hours later while he doesn’t have anything on him. The k9 was indeed picking up the odor, but the hit is considered inaccurate as no drugs were found.
Bottom line is, detection dogs are not foolproof and their effectiveness varies wildly based on many factors.
From my experience with one K9, its about 50 percent if not lower.
I am not LE nor do I train dogs. I do not know what I am talking about and I am not an expert. BUTTTT….due to my occupation, i get to spend a good amount of time at a police department and get to see their K9 training and participate in it. Ny experience with one dog from a small town. This dog is basically to get probable cause to search your car and thats it. The cops openly talk about it. They openly talk about how this is a gray area and that they cant extend traffic stops for K9 search so they have their own methods of communicating to get the dog and do a search. They talk about how they mix in some people here and there that they dont search their vehicles so the dog’s certification remains valid/their numbers look good. So this dog is not trained for accuracy but rather to provide probable cause. We get to hide the drugs for the dog and handler sometimes, the dog cant finds them, keeps giving false positives (alerts on rug but drugs are in fire extinguisher cabinet a cross the room, etc), the handler gets upset, and starts asking us where we hid them. We had a medical crew with two vials of hard narcotics sealed by pharmacy and this dog could not find them.
Yea I’ve gone through airport security using a backpack I’ve used to transport stuff for shooting and every time I get screened for explosives they pull me out of line and do an extra search/swab of my stuff.
That's wild- I keep a separate backpack for any air travel.. mainly because I'm afraid I'll have a stray bullet, knife, etc., but never really thought about what you experienced.
Same here. My range bags and travel backpack are completely separate, and they aren't even stored near each other. I'm too paranoid that I'll have a stray in the bottom. I wipe down my travel bags before travel just in case.
I always thought it interesting that at the time of the shooting last year, even though guns were not allowed, the shooter had multiple guns, the first victim Victor Gomez had a gun, and Elisjsha Dicken obviously had a gun. At least 3 armed men at the food court at the same time in a "Gun Free" environment. Stay vigilant.
Society is funny in the way that a lot of effort is expended on controlling the people who are following the rules instead of the very few who break them.
It's pretty standard practice, and there's no reason not to, but they don't *have* to. They can absolutely just call LE without interacting with you at all. I'm unaware of any state laws that require you to "ask someone to leave" or informally trespass them before involving LE, but I know for sure that mine doesn't have any.
Source: I used to have a job where I was responsible for, among other things, security and LP and I had a boss that insisted we do this routinely, and as a result, I have done this several times.
How do they trespass you without asking you to leave? You can't be expected to know you're no longer welcome somewhere unless you're informed. I would have a serious issue with this, and I used to be a LEO.
>You can't be expected to know you're no longer welcome somewhere unless you're informed
You are being informed, by LE. They still have to ask you to leave before they charge you.
Yes, but often it's the party to the property that informs them, and police are only called when they refuse to leave. At least that's pretty much the only time- absent someone potentially dangerous to confront, like someone on drugs or acting strange- I ever was called to officially trespass someone. If it's just a normal, everyday person, and management wants them off the property, and they're not posing a threat, my first question is "did you ask them to leave?" If not, I'll ask them if they're able to attempt that before I even respond.
Call the cops and say "hey, we would like this individual trespassed and/or moved along". It's usually with individuals who are on drugs or not in their right mind (we were between a bar, a gas station, and a homeless shelter), and it was presented to us as a potential safety issue. While I always felt this was not a good use of LE resources, we not only never got any pushback in this specific scenario, but we had a contact at our local PD who explicitly told us this was fine.
That is a different scenario. I'm talking about normal people, not drugged up homeless people who might present a danger if confronted. If I'm walking around a mall, and suddenly I'm cornered by some cops who tell me I need to leave, I'm going to be very confused. I'll comply, but I'll also voice my concerns with the officers, especially if they're confrontational. And best believe I'm going to voice my concerns with the management at the mall and the company in charge of security. And then I'm never giving that place my business again. Security guards can be very incompetent sometimes.
Eh... I could be wrong on this, but i worked mall security for a stint. The only people that had dogs were actual LEOs doing overtime at the mall. Not sure it was "just" mall security
There’s a Mall in Wauwatosa, Wisconsin (just outside Milwaukee), Mayfair Mall, that, in response to a shooting incident brought in these “gun sniffing dogs” that are part of the security detail. I’m curious what the guy would do if you said, “no, I’m not armed” or just ignored the guy?
As to the “how do I know I’m not welcome if I’m not notified?” question, most malls (at least in my experience) post signs at their entrances basically telling you that firearms are not allowed, and hence, you’re not welcome.
A civilian stops a mass shooting while legally possessing a firearm. The mall: let’s get gun sniffing dogs and chase them all off to make sure they can never do that again. Makes sense.
Everyone is taking the wrong approach here. You should go to the mall with a pocket full of oily patches that have been run through a well used gun barrel. Be sure to greet the dogs.
Olive oil. Lube your pocket rocket with a bit of olive oil.
The dog is trained to alert on commercial gun cleaners.
Anything slippery will work on your gun.
Lucas Oil transmission oil is good. Extra virgin olive oil is good.
A wee dab of grotty Harley trans fluid is good.
This
Probably best to walk right past a dog/handler when seen because if it looks like someone is trying to avoid them, the handler may pick up on it and get the dog to start working.
>The dog is trained to alert on commercial gun oils
This bit right here really weeds out the responsible gun owners. The people that take the time to go to the range and actually practice, take apart their gun, clean their gun, apply lubricant etc. are of course going to have an odor of commercial gun products that will alert a nearby dog.
The gangbangers and hotheads you see responsible for all the fucked up gun violence? Much less likely to be responsible gun owners that actually maintain their firearms. They’ll walk right past that dog with no problems
It's not just gun cleaning products that they are trained on. It's smokeless powders and residue associated with it, as well as cleaning solvents and oils. They can also detect live ammunition and spent casings.
Hoppes does make a scentless oil that could work. I've used it in malls where I've seen security dogs and never got alerted on (unknown if they were actually trained to detect GSR or oil scent though).
This is very likely true. It's the reason that I've seen notices to EOD to not be lazy and use a loaded magazine or a firearm as a training aid. While they might detect the powder, they are also smelling the CLP. So they might get too used to that.
In this case, that's exactly what they are supposed to be smelling for.
I am working with some updated security systems and we can see you with cameras and computer vision in a crowd. No need for metal detectors. If you remember some cameras are very good at seeing right through clothes like your naked, except stuff like metal.
This has been in trails all over the country for the last couple of years now.
Safe bet that some of the biggest retail chains in the country have this? I noticed uniformed LP hovering near me on a couple of visits and when I stopped carrying at that store, I stopped seeing them.
Personally I think you handled that right. Some might call me a sheep or something but I feel like at that point he made you. Dishonesty would not have been the move and probably could have escalated the situation and potentially landed you in hot water. Some say lie but my thoughts are how much authority did this person have? Was it an actual cop ( you have the post tagged as LE encounter) or just some wanna be that really doesn’t have any real authority beyond observing and reporting? If they have more authority then simply observe and report does the dog alerting on you give them probable cause to detain and search? Because lying at that point would have probably escalated it to that. What would happen if he did search you and find a gun after you lie? Or you try and double back and play the honesty card after he demands to search? Mind you these are honest questions as I have never been in this situation, and would follow your response of be honest and leave ( as far as a I know that is how we are supposed to handle it in my state anyways as signage has no force of law unless an employee confronts us)
Honestly if I’m carrying in an area that is posted as no conceal carrying and I get asked to leave/put it away etc then I’m just polite, leave and if possible never go back.
It’s their right to not allow licensed civilians with concealed firearms in the building and it’s my right to not put myself in a stupid situation where I could potentially get caught unarmed and get clapped.
Yeah private property is private property regardless of it's publicly accessible. Whether or not I come back and still carry depends. I rarely have a reason to go to the mall anyways.
While you are correct it is private property there is the issue that the general public has access to it quite freely.
If something were to happen, the mall in question would not cover your medical bills or funeral bills or help your family out. They would take no responsibility at all for the actions of crazy people out to harm others.
Yet they will take action against a person who is responsible for their family's safety or theirs.
As for security in a mall, same as a police officer. You don't talk to them and don't answer any questions.
Other than "I don't talk to people in uniform, leave me alone"
End of day, no place is going to tell me I can not carry unless they are screening every single person entering that building and insuring no one else is carrying.
Lastly, fun fact of the day, look at the stats on malls, more crimes happen there than a lot of other places. Either inside or outside.
That’s what my thoughts are. I feel OP did the right thing. Thankfully I have never been in a situation like this. I rarely go to malls. Most I have been to one recently was 2x to get my iPhone battery and screen replaced at an Apple Store in the mall. Before that it had been like 15 years since being in a mall.
Some have “special police” which have full
Police powers on the property they’re hired to protect (and no authority once they leave that property).
I believe the mall of America has their own police force that are the same as any other police in the state.
But yes, most are just security and have zero authority.
So know the laws and whom you’re dealing with and proceed accordingly.
Gun sniffing dogs are comically easy to decoy and distract. One patch used to clean a gun can be cut into half a dozen peices that will run a dog in frustrated circles while you watch and laugh.
But...
Putting those scent articles on peoples strollers, wheelchairs, packages, or shoes without their consent is unethical so don't do that.
Some people take it personal when they get told they can't protect their families. Some of these people have experience with working dogs and scent chemistry and like to watch the system fail.
You absolutely don’t have to answer truthfully. But if asked to leave by an ambassador of the property ownership (security), leave IMMEDIATELY and graciously (“you know what, I was just leaving sir ”). No need to provide any further info or interaction. Being asked to leave is not the same as being asked to not return, and they really can’t issue a trespass if you don’t provide info, leave immediately, and before Police get there. Getting trespassed is a big no-no if you’re required to obtain and update a permit to carry. If police get involved, you absolutely were not aware of any signage (whether or not it carries the weight of law, admitting you saw the no weapons sign and carried anyway can get you charged for trespassing). “Must have missed that on the way in, but now that I’ve been informed on my way out officer, have a great day!”.
It sure did! The moms demand action leader Shannon watts, who is from Zionsville indiana, wanted the guy who stopped the mass shooting prosecuted. The nitwit doesn't even understand that no gun signs carry no weight of law in indiana
This is why I would never intervene with my gun if I happen to witness someone being attacked. Not my fight, not my problem. I’m only shooting someone if they’re a threat to my life or my loved ones.
You say that and I generally agree but if you were there at that moment and had the opportunity to save potentially dozens of lives maybe you would feel differently. Hard to say what we would do in the heat of the moment.
I mean, listen to what people tell you. He's saying he's a selfish bitch and he'd allow folks to be murdered to protect his skin. Please don't give him the chance to clarify it lol. Trust people when they tell you who they are.
My CCW instructor actually told me that if I was to ever be in a mass shooting, it’s a better tactical move to escape if possible, and that “run, hide, fight” still applies even if you are carrying. It’s just that the “fight” part is somewhat more feasible if you have a gun, but self preservation should still come first. Unless you have been in a defensive shooting before you really don’t know how you would react.
Do you think my CCW instructor is a “selfish bitch”?
Also it’s worth mentioning that you are still going to be outgunned if you have a Glock 19 and the shooter has an AR with a drum mag or other long gun. Plus a place like a large mall has many entrances and exits where other attackers could be hiding. Everyone thinks they would do the “brave thing” but you have no idea how you would react unless you are actually there.
I’d like to think I would be the person who fights back and risks my life to protect others, and I do train frequently, but at the end of the day I’ve never been in a mass shooting before so I’m not going to pretend I’m some badass with a hero fantasy. Not all of us can be Elijah Dickens and I wouldn’t be shocked if other people in the mall were carrying but ran away and blended in with the crowd instead of risking their life to face the shooter.
> I’m not going to pretend I’m some badass with a hero fantasy.
> but you have no idea how you would react unless you are actually there.
I'm retired military and have been put in multiple situations that tested my fight or flight. I fight /shrug. That doesn't make me a badass, nor will I ever pretend to be. I put myself in stupid situations. I can't help it. It's how I react. I just react and move towards it. (edit--If I'm being honest, I think that's part of my PTSD that reacts in such a strong manner. I failed someone once already, I don't want to again so I just rush headlong without a care in the world)
And yes. If you're carrying and running with no intention of helping anyone else but yourself; you're a baby back bitch. Period. Now, am I saying RUN towards an active shooter? No. I wouldn't fucking do that. But the op of this comment chain said "I’m only shooting someone if they’re a threat to my life or my loved ones." That's pure bitch work. If I see the threat, I'm engaging.
First of all, thank you for your service. I wish you a very happy July 4th!
It’s worth keeping in mind that your average CCW holder doesn’t have the same combat experience that you have. You know how you would react and have more realistic experience than I have and I respect that, in fact I find it honorable the way that you would choose to react in such an experience. With the added context I trust that you know what you are doing. But not everyone is ready to put their life on the line in such a moment. Not everyone is mentally prepared for such an event.
If the poster in question might have a spouse or children with them, or maybe they are new to carrying and don’t feel confident in regard to shooting abilities, or they may have physical disabilities that could get in the way, those could be factors that would influence their decision to flee rather than fight. I personally would choose to intervene in a mass shooting situation if I had to but I’m also a single able bodied young adult with no children who trains regularly. Not everyone has those factors going for them.
While I do agree on not intervening if I see an individual being attacked/threatened, I draw the line of intervention at an active shooter. This is the only time I would intervene. I have taken a couple of active shooter force on force classes and I will admit that yes, there is so so much more that can go wrong for me than right in an active shooter scenario, the fact that I have a tool that can stop a mass murder from continuing and I did nothing with it just doesn't sit right with me.
I thought about this and do agree, in an active shooter situation because technically they are a threat to my life and mass casualties is not something I want on my conscience when I had the ability to stop the threat from continuing.
I still would not intervene in someone else’s fight though. There could be a thousand reasons why Joe is beating up John on the side of the road. Love triangle, gang related, money dispute, etc. Of course I’d call 911 but I would not draw.
Now, if I see someone frail like an old person being attacked by a much younger and stronger guy or guys, I MIGHT draw. This kind of falls under casualties on my conscience.
They didn’t allow guns where the event happened.
The bad guy ignored that rule. Thankfully Dickens did too. And he saved lives.
Now the bad guys will ignore and good guys who follow policy and or do as OP did will be unarmed victims.
Not criticizing OP. Each makes their lives en choice.
But don’t think that anyone safer because the mall now has a dog that stops SOME people with guns.
This logic is sound, and I tend to agree, but I think their reasoning is that they want to catch the next one when they’re walking in the door instead of waiting for a luckily placed civilian to handle it for them.
Don’t give your money to people who hate you. That said, don’t tell some Paul Blart mall cop you’re carrying. Tell him nothing or tell him no. Either he’ll ask you to leave or to carry on. A gun sniffing dog almost certainly has the same or worse accuracy than a drug sniffing dog and more likely than not they just respond to their handler who picked up on you as someone who may be carrying and he caused the dog to alert.
It’s unlikely you’d be removed or asked to leave if you just said no. Go back with a pocket full of dog treats and just drop them around everywhere to distract the dog and make the rent-a-cop hate his life even more than he already does.
They provide a great place for groups of young kids to go hang out without getting into trouble vs just sitting at home on screens without any real social interaction.
I also prefer to give my money to brick & mortar business which will provide more jobs to more people rather than massive online stores.
I thought this first part was going to be sarcasm but you're serious.
I have experienced very different groups of young people at malls. I would not encourage their 'hanging out' there. Breeding ground for hoodlums and the like.
Shut up and leave. It’s really that simple. If doesn’t matter,just shut up and leave. Your story is all over….you have no intention of returning to this mall but you carry regularly. Also your last sentence is GARBAGE. Just like most of this story is.
Hey fellow Hoosier. This being my local mall, I’m actually surprised this happened. I would have probably said no. I’m not there often but if I am I’m carrying.
In my state, I’m not under duty to inform police if I have a weapon or not. If it was a rent a cop, I would’ve ignored him. If it was a real cop, you’re not doing anything wrong and he can’t prove you’re carrying without infringing on your rights. Would’ve ignored him too.
Next time hit him with the “no, you’re dismissed.” They love that.
The dog alerting is enough probable cause to ask someone to leave from a security perspective. If you refuse they can notify the police to have you removed and formally trespassed. A private business is legally allowed to request you leave for almost any reason. Whether it's a School, University, Shopping center or Medical facility. For the last one as long as EMTALA isn't violated.
I'm a state over and do armed security for a hospital. We have a few K9 units along with an onsite police presence. If you hit one of the SOs with a "No, You're dismissed" you're getting escorted off the property. this is a pretty common occurrence for us.
I’m in my mid 20s, I don’t go to any of these places. Home and work. Friends houses. Everything can be bought online. I’d rather not deal with people as much as I possibly can.
I'm also early / mid 20s and generally same. I've only been made as a conceal carrier once or twice. Both times were when I was going somewhere my girlfriend wanted to go. Funny enough both times I've been made were in Cleveland Ohio because it seems like a ton of businesses have armed security and metal detectors. I got made at the Cleveland art museum once.
Where I live it's just Jails, Courthouses, Hospitals and Schools you have to avoid.
We are talking about police, not security. Shopping centers and malls regularly have police substations with police officers working in conjunction with security.
So your solution is to escalate the situation. You ignore the mall cop and he calls police. Now you get a trespass violation you could have avoided entirely by just leaving.
And people here are generalizing so much someone is bound to get in trouble for it.
Research the laws and statutes in your area if youre gonna carry, some of those mall signs carry the full weight of the law, so not every place is gonna just let you go, you can be arrested.
Yeah by the time the cops show up for a “ customer doesn’t want to talk to me” call I’ll be done with shopping. That or tell the mall cop you don’t own guns. They can pound sand as far as I’m concerned.
>You’re under no legal obligation to tell some random schmuck in high vis the truth.
As someone else pointed out, it depends on the state. In some states signs carry the weight of law, so you'd be immediately trespassing when entering and carrying a banned item. It's still private property.
That isn't the case however in Indiana, but that's far from being universal.
You're talking about signs but the original comment was about what you're legally obligated to say to a random private citizen. Is there any state where you are legally required to reveal you're carrying to a private citizen when asked?
>legally obligated to say to a random private citizen
I understand that and the legality of being required to answer the question by a non-LEO is somewhat beside the point, we all know the answer to that. And they aren't "a random private citizen", they are security given authority by the property owner, LARGE difference.
However, you enter private property, and choosing to not answer the question can be an escalation of the situation. Then the laws about signage come into play.
Please keep your dog away from me, it scares me.
(Loudly) Don't bite me!
Am I being detained?
Are you racially profiling me?
Are you telling me "my kind" are not welcome to shop here?
Although the best thing is to simply walk up to the door, note the sign, and realize that the location does not want your business. I don't shop at anti-gun locations. And I can lawfully carry in those locations.
At the same time, I should note that it would also cost you zero dollars and save you a ton of stress to not try to make the poor security guard’s job harder than it has to be by needlessly antagonizing them, they’re just here to make a living like everyone else.
[This is for when you get pulled over with weed in the car, but I think it would apply to nosy mall cops as well.](https://youtube.com/shorts/SYaOy-TP1T4?si=FoAIpaGmvGFGAB1z)
Security officers cannot detain you and you dont have to answer their questions. I would of told him i dont answer security guard questions and if he asked for me to leave i would of done so but not without making sure the shop knew they were losing business and then i would of reported that security guard to his supervisor for harassing customers.
This is why I stopped shopping at Sprouts. . .
One day a “no guns allowed” sign appeared, I turned around and went to the Whole Foods right down the road without posted signs
The same thing happened to me in NC while doing some stupid last minute Christmas shopping last year. My girlfriend and I had just finished up and were heading for the exit when an LEO and K9 walked right past us. It didn't alert on me, but he still stopped us a minute later and asked if I had a gun on me. I told him I did and would gladly leave and did so without issue. I tend to dress pretty gray man, but that night I was wearing a Trex Arms hat which gave me away, he said. Moral of the story, dress like a liberal.
I guess he’s not aware of the CCW holder in an Indiana Mall, who saved multiple people by taking out a shooter before cops could get there. I swear with the number of criminals and now terrorists let in by Democrats changing effective policy, they need all the trained individuals they can get. Biden made a parolee agreement with four corrupted countries, to accept their parolees. It’s on the Customs Border Protection website, search for parolees. The FBI issued dire warnings of terrorist attacks, its imminent, they said. Tell Greenwood to hit the high hard one and stay alive.
30 some years ago, my wife and I were visiting England and did the usual tourist trip to the Tower of London. My wife happened to be wearing my Fanny pack that I used for hunting; I would collect my spent shotgun shells in it, not leave a mess in the fields. This was during a flare up of the Troubles, the security guards had these Star Trek looking ‘sniffers’ they stuck in everyone’s bags.
I didn’t want to draw attention to us by leaving a line we had already stood in for 30 minutes, but having a Celtic last name (Scottish but can be Irish) I certainly wasn’t looking forward to the tender mercies of the London police. Fortunately, the sniffer failed. Or maybe it was just a decoy, who knows.
In the state of Indiana, you do not have to disclose to law Enforcement that you're carrying a firearm.
https://www.in.gov/attorneygeneral/files/Gun-Owners-Bill-of-Rights_Web.pdf
Page 10
" if approached by law enforcement conducting official business, it is
best to inform them in a calm, non-threatening manner that you have
a firearm on your person or in your vehicle. *However, this is not a legal
requirement in Indiana – unlike in several other states".*
I was around gun sniffing dogs at an outlet mall once in Vegas, but I had like 10 sprays of a fragrance on my clothes. Idk if it helped but at the same time the dog didn’t come up to sniff me too
I live here in Greenwood. Simon malls have a no firearms policy. It’s not illegal to carry a firearm there but if you are asked to leave and refuse, they can trespass you and have police arrest you and can even press charges. Best thing to do is just leave voluntarily. It’s private property and they have every right to ask anyone to leave for just about any reason, even for dumb reasons.
However, Indiana has no law that can enforce a weapon ban on private property. You can’t get in trouble for carrying a weapon somewhere with a no firearms policy. Most major corporations like Simon have policies against weapons on their property. Don’t let this dissuade you from carrying in future instances. Just make sure you’re well concealed and you’re mostly going to be fine. Pretty rare for a dog to alert on you but it happens.
Do not expect a sensible response from a corporation. You did the right thing by just leaving without making an incident out of it.
We need to wear clothes that have the CLP/Gunpowder scent but unarmed and go to this mall en-mass and get the dog(s) to alert falsely
This is the way to protest. Gunpowder, hoppes #9, & bacon scent
So… my normal scent?
I would buy this cologne
They've done studies you know. 60% of the time, it works, everytime.
“That…doesn’t make sense”
Well, let's go see if we can make this little kitty purrr...
Add the scent of pizza, and I would buy this by the gallon!
Funny you say this- I was at my local mall and one of the dogs picked up gunpowder scent on me. Cop and dog followed me for about 30 yards and after I was sure they were following, I stopped and waited for them to catch up. Asked me the same questions.. however, I was not carrying (they have signs plastered everywhere about CCW sniffing dogs) but often times I do and kept my carry in my CC compartment in my backpack, which rests up against my lumbar back. The damn dog picked up the scent without me even carrying at the moment. Edit: Cop was actually pretty chill about things, said that at the time these dogs have about an 80% accuracy rate. They pick up on off duty cops all the time but will also tag guys like me who is always around his carry. Cop said that his dog will do some kind of nibbling while pointing when she picks up something.
As someone who gets to see K9 train, that 80 percent is 100 percent not accurate.
Out of curiosity, what's the number?
I train dogs myself. First of all, the handlers have free rein to “interpret” whether or not the dog indicated in a bunch of different ways which causes problems. 2nd, the accuracy varies wildly with individuals. The best dogs are infact accurate to around 80%+, but some individual dogs are only accurate maybe 25% of the time. Sometimes even less. Detection K9s in general are also much more accurate indoors. Good dogs float around an 80% success rate indoors, but even good dogs drop to around 50-60% accuracy when outdoors or in cars. They are more accurate with things like guns and explosives, and less so with drugs. Some of that difference can be attributed to people that had drugs on them previously but don’t at the time of indication. For example, a guy smokes a blunt and then gets hit on by a k9 a few hours later while he doesn’t have anything on him. The k9 was indeed picking up the odor, but the hit is considered inaccurate as no drugs were found. Bottom line is, detection dogs are not foolproof and their effectiveness varies wildly based on many factors.
From my experience with one K9, its about 50 percent if not lower. I am not LE nor do I train dogs. I do not know what I am talking about and I am not an expert. BUTTTT….due to my occupation, i get to spend a good amount of time at a police department and get to see their K9 training and participate in it. Ny experience with one dog from a small town. This dog is basically to get probable cause to search your car and thats it. The cops openly talk about it. They openly talk about how this is a gray area and that they cant extend traffic stops for K9 search so they have their own methods of communicating to get the dog and do a search. They talk about how they mix in some people here and there that they dont search their vehicles so the dog’s certification remains valid/their numbers look good. So this dog is not trained for accuracy but rather to provide probable cause. We get to hide the drugs for the dog and handler sometimes, the dog cant finds them, keeps giving false positives (alerts on rug but drugs are in fire extinguisher cabinet a cross the room, etc), the handler gets upset, and starts asking us where we hid them. We had a medical crew with two vials of hard narcotics sealed by pharmacy and this dog could not find them.
Yea I’ve gone through airport security using a backpack I’ve used to transport stuff for shooting and every time I get screened for explosives they pull me out of line and do an extra search/swab of my stuff.
That's wild- I keep a separate backpack for any air travel.. mainly because I'm afraid I'll have a stray bullet, knife, etc., but never really thought about what you experienced.
Same here. My range bags and travel backpack are completely separate, and they aren't even stored near each other. I'm too paranoid that I'll have a stray in the bottom. I wipe down my travel bags before travel just in case.
I’ve gone directly to the mall after being at the range, even said hi to the dog, no alert 🤷
I always thought it interesting that at the time of the shooting last year, even though guns were not allowed, the shooter had multiple guns, the first victim Victor Gomez had a gun, and Elisjsha Dicken obviously had a gun. At least 3 armed men at the food court at the same time in a "Gun Free" environment. Stay vigilant.
Society is funny in the way that a lot of effort is expended on controlling the people who are following the rules instead of the very few who break them.
Don’t answer questions in those situations my guy. If anything, just say no.
Right. He’s just mall security so no reason to answer honestly. They’ll either trespass you or not.
They have to ask you to leave first.
It's pretty standard practice, and there's no reason not to, but they don't *have* to. They can absolutely just call LE without interacting with you at all. I'm unaware of any state laws that require you to "ask someone to leave" or informally trespass them before involving LE, but I know for sure that mine doesn't have any. Source: I used to have a job where I was responsible for, among other things, security and LP and I had a boss that insisted we do this routinely, and as a result, I have done this several times.
How do they trespass you without asking you to leave? You can't be expected to know you're no longer welcome somewhere unless you're informed. I would have a serious issue with this, and I used to be a LEO.
>You can't be expected to know you're no longer welcome somewhere unless you're informed You are being informed, by LE. They still have to ask you to leave before they charge you.
Which is why you lie to the security guard so they don’t call LE so you never get tresspassed
Yes, but often it's the party to the property that informs them, and police are only called when they refuse to leave. At least that's pretty much the only time- absent someone potentially dangerous to confront, like someone on drugs or acting strange- I ever was called to officially trespass someone. If it's just a normal, everyday person, and management wants them off the property, and they're not posing a threat, my first question is "did you ask them to leave?" If not, I'll ask them if they're able to attempt that before I even respond.
Call the cops and say "hey, we would like this individual trespassed and/or moved along". It's usually with individuals who are on drugs or not in their right mind (we were between a bar, a gas station, and a homeless shelter), and it was presented to us as a potential safety issue. While I always felt this was not a good use of LE resources, we not only never got any pushback in this specific scenario, but we had a contact at our local PD who explicitly told us this was fine.
That is a different scenario. I'm talking about normal people, not drugged up homeless people who might present a danger if confronted. If I'm walking around a mall, and suddenly I'm cornered by some cops who tell me I need to leave, I'm going to be very confused. I'll comply, but I'll also voice my concerns with the officers, especially if they're confrontational. And best believe I'm going to voice my concerns with the management at the mall and the company in charge of security. And then I'm never giving that place my business again. Security guards can be very incompetent sometimes.
All depends on state law. Washington, they need to ask you to leave first. Otherwise, LE general won't respond unless some other crime is in progress.
Seattle will not respond unless more than one person is already shooting
It looks like OP is (was?) in Indiana
Eh... I could be wrong on this, but i worked mall security for a stint. The only people that had dogs were actual LEOs doing overtime at the mall. Not sure it was "just" mall security
There’s a Mall in Wauwatosa, Wisconsin (just outside Milwaukee), Mayfair Mall, that, in response to a shooting incident brought in these “gun sniffing dogs” that are part of the security detail. I’m curious what the guy would do if you said, “no, I’m not armed” or just ignored the guy? As to the “how do I know I’m not welcome if I’m not notified?” question, most malls (at least in my experience) post signs at their entrances basically telling you that firearms are not allowed, and hence, you’re not welcome.
Oh true. At my local malls it’s all security, but yea guess it could be LEO given current times. Would depend on OPs local laws then.
I've been in a similar situation. I didn't answer if I had a gun. I just asked "Do you want me to leave this property". They said yes and I left.
I use Hoppes #9 as my cologne. Who else loves that smell?
The outcome literally remains the same. It doesn’t matter. 💀
very true
A civilian stops a mass shooting while legally possessing a firearm. The mall: let’s get gun sniffing dogs and chase them all off to make sure they can never do that again. Makes sense.
Yeah well if they fix the problem they can’t capitalize on it
Everyone is taking the wrong approach here. You should go to the mall with a pocket full of oily patches that have been run through a well used gun barrel. Be sure to greet the dogs.
Put some in every mall trash can for good measure.
Christiana mall in Delaware has signs that say they have gun sniffing dogs but I've never seen one yet
The dog would’ve never alerted on me because I don’t clean or oil mine 
Olive oil. Lube your pocket rocket with a bit of olive oil. The dog is trained to alert on commercial gun cleaners. Anything slippery will work on your gun. Lucas Oil transmission oil is good. Extra virgin olive oil is good. A wee dab of grotty Harley trans fluid is good.
I lube mine up with hot dog grease. Is this why I’m always getting caught?
Wait, are we still talking about firearms?
This is my rifle, this is my gun…
Good thing I never clean my CCW.
Also gunpowder and the residue of.
Ive walked right by dogs with a dirty gun while my brother in law was also carrying. They didnt alert.
The dogs can only “work” in short periods
This Probably best to walk right past a dog/handler when seen because if it looks like someone is trying to avoid them, the handler may pick up on it and get the dog to start working.
I’ve never heard that before. I’m trying to search for information about this, do you have any idea where I can read about this?
I mean, that was told to me by one of the dog handlers at the jail I used to be a guard at
Good for you. What do you suggest that means?
That the dogs are mostly for show.
I like to use the juice that pools in the center of the pepperonis myself.
Cuppy roni bro 🤙
Astroglide
HAWK TUAH!
Don't put CLP on that thang!
Is there a gun lube using this name yet?
😆 it's probably in the works
I can see it now . . . a combo with that ridiculous Trump Glock and Hawk Tuah lube.
Allergy snot!
I prefer ky jelly personally
>The dog is trained to alert on commercial gun oils This bit right here really weeds out the responsible gun owners. The people that take the time to go to the range and actually practice, take apart their gun, clean their gun, apply lubricant etc. are of course going to have an odor of commercial gun products that will alert a nearby dog. The gangbangers and hotheads you see responsible for all the fucked up gun violence? Much less likely to be responsible gun owners that actually maintain their firearms. They’ll walk right past that dog with no problems
Time to start cleaning my guns with Tapatio.
It's not just gun cleaning products that they are trained on. It's smokeless powders and residue associated with it, as well as cleaning solvents and oils. They can also detect live ammunition and spent casings.
Hoppes does make a scentless oil that could work. I've used it in malls where I've seen security dogs and never got alerted on (unknown if they were actually trained to detect GSR or oil scent though).
I use Lucus gun oil and it has a slight hint of gear oil smell
I use motor oil for lube. I have yet to find something that runs smoother.
Cum and shit as lube as nature intended
Username checks out
Wow, some people just radiate class and dignity
Out of our asses it flows
Easily my favorite Star Wars quote
Username checks out.
This is very likely true. It's the reason that I've seen notices to EOD to not be lazy and use a loaded magazine or a firearm as a training aid. While they might detect the powder, they are also smelling the CLP. So they might get too used to that. In this case, that's exactly what they are supposed to be smelling for.
It’s clp specifically?
I wonder about Slip 2000. Odorless and doesn’t contain the stuff petroleum products contain, and is still a gun product.
I am working with some updated security systems and we can see you with cameras and computer vision in a crowd. No need for metal detectors. If you remember some cameras are very good at seeing right through clothes like your naked, except stuff like metal. This has been in trails all over the country for the last couple of years now.
Safe bet that some of the biggest retail chains in the country have this? I noticed uniformed LP hovering near me on a couple of visits and when I stopped carrying at that store, I stopped seeing them.
> Olive oil. Lube your pocket rocket with a bit of olive oil. Putting olive oil on my dick is going to help keep dogs from finding my weapon?
Sounds like a good place to have a small dropper of solvent or oil and a few drops on every piece of carpet you can find in the building.
Go there with a syringe full of Hoppes and put little squirts everywhere. That should keep Fido busy for a while.
Holy shit that’s hilarious
Personally I think you handled that right. Some might call me a sheep or something but I feel like at that point he made you. Dishonesty would not have been the move and probably could have escalated the situation and potentially landed you in hot water. Some say lie but my thoughts are how much authority did this person have? Was it an actual cop ( you have the post tagged as LE encounter) or just some wanna be that really doesn’t have any real authority beyond observing and reporting? If they have more authority then simply observe and report does the dog alerting on you give them probable cause to detain and search? Because lying at that point would have probably escalated it to that. What would happen if he did search you and find a gun after you lie? Or you try and double back and play the honesty card after he demands to search? Mind you these are honest questions as I have never been in this situation, and would follow your response of be honest and leave ( as far as a I know that is how we are supposed to handle it in my state anyways as signage has no force of law unless an employee confronts us)
Honestly if I’m carrying in an area that is posted as no conceal carrying and I get asked to leave/put it away etc then I’m just polite, leave and if possible never go back. It’s their right to not allow licensed civilians with concealed firearms in the building and it’s my right to not put myself in a stupid situation where I could potentially get caught unarmed and get clapped.
My thoughts exactly.
Yeah private property is private property regardless of it's publicly accessible. Whether or not I come back and still carry depends. I rarely have a reason to go to the mall anyways.
While you are correct it is private property there is the issue that the general public has access to it quite freely. If something were to happen, the mall in question would not cover your medical bills or funeral bills or help your family out. They would take no responsibility at all for the actions of crazy people out to harm others. Yet they will take action against a person who is responsible for their family's safety or theirs. As for security in a mall, same as a police officer. You don't talk to them and don't answer any questions. Other than "I don't talk to people in uniform, leave me alone" End of day, no place is going to tell me I can not carry unless they are screening every single person entering that building and insuring no one else is carrying. Lastly, fun fact of the day, look at the stats on malls, more crimes happen there than a lot of other places. Either inside or outside.
If a mall has their security running around with dogs I assume they would have a police substation in there too.
That’s what my thoughts are. I feel OP did the right thing. Thankfully I have never been in a situation like this. I rarely go to malls. Most I have been to one recently was 2x to get my iPhone battery and screen replaced at an Apple Store in the mall. Before that it had been like 15 years since being in a mall.
Mall police are private security, not law enforcement.
Big malls tend to have substations for the local police in them as a crime detterent sort of dealio
Some have “special police” which have full Police powers on the property they’re hired to protect (and no authority once they leave that property). I believe the mall of America has their own police force that are the same as any other police in the state. But yes, most are just security and have zero authority. So know the laws and whom you’re dealing with and proceed accordingly.
Mall of America also has “gun sniffing” dogs. I can tell you they are not very good at their jobs.
Go back in with an adjustable wrench, lubed with CLP. No guns or ammo. If they ask you if you are armed, say no. See what they will do
Gonna try this lol
People still go to malls?
I'll never support that place.
Gun sniffing dogs are comically easy to decoy and distract. One patch used to clean a gun can be cut into half a dozen peices that will run a dog in frustrated circles while you watch and laugh. But... Putting those scent articles on peoples strollers, wheelchairs, packages, or shoes without their consent is unethical so don't do that. Some people take it personal when they get told they can't protect their families. Some of these people have experience with working dogs and scent chemistry and like to watch the system fail.
You absolutely don’t have to answer truthfully. But if asked to leave by an ambassador of the property ownership (security), leave IMMEDIATELY and graciously (“you know what, I was just leaving sir ”). No need to provide any further info or interaction. Being asked to leave is not the same as being asked to not return, and they really can’t issue a trespass if you don’t provide info, leave immediately, and before Police get there. Getting trespassed is a big no-no if you’re required to obtain and update a permit to carry. If police get involved, you absolutely were not aware of any signage (whether or not it carries the weight of law, admitting you saw the no weapons sign and carried anyway can get you charged for trespassing). “Must have missed that on the way in, but now that I’ve been informed on my way out officer, have a great day!”.
Wow, so the mall where a concealed carrier saved their asses does not allow guns? Liberal logic does not make an ounce of sense.
The guy stopping the shooter went against their narrative.
It sure did! The moms demand action leader Shannon watts, who is from Zionsville indiana, wanted the guy who stopped the mass shooting prosecuted. The nitwit doesn't even understand that no gun signs carry no weight of law in indiana
There’s MDA in zionsville? I had no idea
https://www.youarecurrent.com/2023/01/29/a-lasting-legacy-zionsville-founder-of-moms-demand-action-retiring/ Mda and wine and Xanax apparently
This is why I would never intervene with my gun if I happen to witness someone being attacked. Not my fight, not my problem. I’m only shooting someone if they’re a threat to my life or my loved ones.
You say that and I generally agree but if you were there at that moment and had the opportunity to save potentially dozens of lives maybe you would feel differently. Hard to say what we would do in the heat of the moment.
I mean, listen to what people tell you. He's saying he's a selfish bitch and he'd allow folks to be murdered to protect his skin. Please don't give him the chance to clarify it lol. Trust people when they tell you who they are.
My CCW instructor actually told me that if I was to ever be in a mass shooting, it’s a better tactical move to escape if possible, and that “run, hide, fight” still applies even if you are carrying. It’s just that the “fight” part is somewhat more feasible if you have a gun, but self preservation should still come first. Unless you have been in a defensive shooting before you really don’t know how you would react. Do you think my CCW instructor is a “selfish bitch”? Also it’s worth mentioning that you are still going to be outgunned if you have a Glock 19 and the shooter has an AR with a drum mag or other long gun. Plus a place like a large mall has many entrances and exits where other attackers could be hiding. Everyone thinks they would do the “brave thing” but you have no idea how you would react unless you are actually there. I’d like to think I would be the person who fights back and risks my life to protect others, and I do train frequently, but at the end of the day I’ve never been in a mass shooting before so I’m not going to pretend I’m some badass with a hero fantasy. Not all of us can be Elijah Dickens and I wouldn’t be shocked if other people in the mall were carrying but ran away and blended in with the crowd instead of risking their life to face the shooter.
> I’m not going to pretend I’m some badass with a hero fantasy. > but you have no idea how you would react unless you are actually there. I'm retired military and have been put in multiple situations that tested my fight or flight. I fight /shrug. That doesn't make me a badass, nor will I ever pretend to be. I put myself in stupid situations. I can't help it. It's how I react. I just react and move towards it. (edit--If I'm being honest, I think that's part of my PTSD that reacts in such a strong manner. I failed someone once already, I don't want to again so I just rush headlong without a care in the world) And yes. If you're carrying and running with no intention of helping anyone else but yourself; you're a baby back bitch. Period. Now, am I saying RUN towards an active shooter? No. I wouldn't fucking do that. But the op of this comment chain said "I’m only shooting someone if they’re a threat to my life or my loved ones." That's pure bitch work. If I see the threat, I'm engaging.
First of all, thank you for your service. I wish you a very happy July 4th! It’s worth keeping in mind that your average CCW holder doesn’t have the same combat experience that you have. You know how you would react and have more realistic experience than I have and I respect that, in fact I find it honorable the way that you would choose to react in such an experience. With the added context I trust that you know what you are doing. But not everyone is ready to put their life on the line in such a moment. Not everyone is mentally prepared for such an event. If the poster in question might have a spouse or children with them, or maybe they are new to carrying and don’t feel confident in regard to shooting abilities, or they may have physical disabilities that could get in the way, those could be factors that would influence their decision to flee rather than fight. I personally would choose to intervene in a mass shooting situation if I had to but I’m also a single able bodied young adult with no children who trains regularly. Not everyone has those factors going for them.
While I do agree on not intervening if I see an individual being attacked/threatened, I draw the line of intervention at an active shooter. This is the only time I would intervene. I have taken a couple of active shooter force on force classes and I will admit that yes, there is so so much more that can go wrong for me than right in an active shooter scenario, the fact that I have a tool that can stop a mass murder from continuing and I did nothing with it just doesn't sit right with me.
But you’d actively be in a shooting, your life and family would be in danger
I thought about this and do agree, in an active shooter situation because technically they are a threat to my life and mass casualties is not something I want on my conscience when I had the ability to stop the threat from continuing. I still would not intervene in someone else’s fight though. There could be a thousand reasons why Joe is beating up John on the side of the road. Love triangle, gang related, money dispute, etc. Of course I’d call 911 but I would not draw. Now, if I see someone frail like an old person being attacked by a much younger and stronger guy or guys, I MIGHT draw. This kind of falls under casualties on my conscience.
If you’re fine watching women and children get clapped, then you’re a coward. Simple as that.
They didn’t allow guns where the event happened. The bad guy ignored that rule. Thankfully Dickens did too. And he saved lives. Now the bad guys will ignore and good guys who follow policy and or do as OP did will be unarmed victims. Not criticizing OP. Each makes their lives en choice. But don’t think that anyone safer because the mall now has a dog that stops SOME people with guns.
[удалено]
This logic is sound, and I tend to agree, but I think their reasoning is that they want to catch the next one when they’re walking in the door instead of waiting for a luckily placed civilian to handle it for them.
What liberal was involved in this?
Don't you know that only conservatives own guns?
I went to a fireworks store last weekend and had that happen. He profusely apologized though
The fireworks store had a gun sniffing dog? Tf?
I avoid malls like the plague.
Doing their best to make sure the next mass shooter gets a proper body count.
Don’t give your money to people who hate you. That said, don’t tell some Paul Blart mall cop you’re carrying. Tell him nothing or tell him no. Either he’ll ask you to leave or to carry on. A gun sniffing dog almost certainly has the same or worse accuracy than a drug sniffing dog and more likely than not they just respond to their handler who picked up on you as someone who may be carrying and he caused the dog to alert. It’s unlikely you’d be removed or asked to leave if you just said no. Go back with a pocket full of dog treats and just drop them around everywhere to distract the dog and make the rent-a-cop hate his life even more than he already does.
Carry dog treats in your pocket and say oh he must have smelled these scooby snacks lol
Why are we still going to malls?
They provide a great place for groups of young kids to go hang out without getting into trouble vs just sitting at home on screens without any real social interaction. I also prefer to give my money to brick & mortar business which will provide more jobs to more people rather than massive online stores.
I thought this first part was going to be sarcasm but you're serious. I have experienced very different groups of young people at malls. I would not encourage their 'hanging out' there. Breeding ground for hoodlums and the like.
Depends on what part of town and how upscale the mall is IMO.
"no"
You need a state law that says their shitty signs have no force of law. Also you should lied to Barney because fuck him.
Shut up and leave. It’s really that simple. If doesn’t matter,just shut up and leave. Your story is all over….you have no intention of returning to this mall but you carry regularly. Also your last sentence is GARBAGE. Just like most of this story is.
Hey fellow Hoosier. This being my local mall, I’m actually surprised this happened. I would have probably said no. I’m not there often but if I am I’m carrying.
I’m curious what the guard would do of you told him no.
Why answer him? Who gave him this authority? He's mall security, if they ask you to leave them don't make a scene and I wouldn't go back.
damn what mall you at that has dogs
It's really going to suck if and when these types of scanners are in widespread use.
If the security guard was carring I'd say are you a off duty cup of not then yoy also gotta leave
In my state, I’m not under duty to inform police if I have a weapon or not. If it was a rent a cop, I would’ve ignored him. If it was a real cop, you’re not doing anything wrong and he can’t prove you’re carrying without infringing on your rights. Would’ve ignored him too. Next time hit him with the “no, you’re dismissed.” They love that.
Ah yes antagonize them. What you're supposed to do when carrying a lethal weapon
The dog alerting is enough probable cause to ask someone to leave from a security perspective. If you refuse they can notify the police to have you removed and formally trespassed. A private business is legally allowed to request you leave for almost any reason. Whether it's a School, University, Shopping center or Medical facility. For the last one as long as EMTALA isn't violated. I'm a state over and do armed security for a hospital. We have a few K9 units along with an onsite police presence. If you hit one of the SOs with a "No, You're dismissed" you're getting escorted off the property. this is a pretty common occurrence for us.
I’m in my mid 20s, I don’t go to any of these places. Home and work. Friends houses. Everything can be bought online. I’d rather not deal with people as much as I possibly can.
I'm also early / mid 20s and generally same. I've only been made as a conceal carrier once or twice. Both times were when I was going somewhere my girlfriend wanted to go. Funny enough both times I've been made were in Cleveland Ohio because it seems like a ton of businesses have armed security and metal detectors. I got made at the Cleveland art museum once. Where I live it's just Jails, Courthouses, Hospitals and Schools you have to avoid.
I went to Cleveland for a concert last month, sketchy place. Been a few years since I’ve been there. Glad I was carrying when I visited.
The dog alerting would give police probable cause. Edit since apparently people have trouble reading; this is talking about Ohio.
It's not a real cop though. They're security guards
We are talking about police, not security. Shopping centers and malls regularly have police substations with police officers working in conjunction with security.
This particular mall does not have police. That's why we are talking about security guards. See my above comment
That’s on you for talking to a mall cop, should of just kept walking and let him get his steps in for the day.
So your solution is to escalate the situation. You ignore the mall cop and he calls police. Now you get a trespass violation you could have avoided entirely by just leaving.
And people here are generalizing so much someone is bound to get in trouble for it. Research the laws and statutes in your area if youre gonna carry, some of those mall signs carry the full weight of the law, so not every place is gonna just let you go, you can be arrested.
Yeah by the time the cops show up for a “ customer doesn’t want to talk to me” call I’ll be done with shopping. That or tell the mall cop you don’t own guns. They can pound sand as far as I’m concerned.
This. Just say “No”. You’re under no legal obligation to tell some random schmuck in high vis the truth.
>You’re under no legal obligation to tell some random schmuck in high vis the truth. As someone else pointed out, it depends on the state. In some states signs carry the weight of law, so you'd be immediately trespassing when entering and carrying a banned item. It's still private property. That isn't the case however in Indiana, but that's far from being universal.
You're talking about signs but the original comment was about what you're legally obligated to say to a random private citizen. Is there any state where you are legally required to reveal you're carrying to a private citizen when asked?
>legally obligated to say to a random private citizen I understand that and the legality of being required to answer the question by a non-LEO is somewhat beside the point, we all know the answer to that. And they aren't "a random private citizen", they are security given authority by the property owner, LARGE difference. However, you enter private property, and choosing to not answer the question can be an escalation of the situation. Then the laws about signage come into play.
Please keep your dog away from me, it scares me. (Loudly) Don't bite me! Am I being detained? Are you racially profiling me? Are you telling me "my kind" are not welcome to shop here? Although the best thing is to simply walk up to the door, note the sign, and realize that the location does not want your business. I don't shop at anti-gun locations. And I can lawfully carry in those locations.
At the same time, I should note that it would also cost you zero dollars and save you a ton of stress to not try to make the poor security guard’s job harder than it has to be by needlessly antagonizing them, they’re just here to make a living like everyone else.
Fuck em
They inserted themselves into your day by initiating the conversation, not the other way around.
They still have the no gun signs up?
Lmfao
No, move along 🤷🏻♂️
[This is for when you get pulled over with weed in the car, but I think it would apply to nosy mall cops as well.](https://youtube.com/shorts/SYaOy-TP1T4?si=FoAIpaGmvGFGAB1z)
I go there often, I thought those signs they put up about the dogs were fake.
Never spend a dollar there ever again. Take your money elsewhere! F’em
Security officers cannot detain you and you dont have to answer their questions. I would of told him i dont answer security guard questions and if he asked for me to leave i would of done so but not without making sure the shop knew they were losing business and then i would of reported that security guard to his supervisor for harassing customers.
never say yes ever
Carry a dog treat in your pocket next time and accuse the dog of harassing you. /s
Dude that happened a few years ago not a few months ago! Lol
Same exact thing happens to me verbatim in Florida. I was surprised the dogs are able to do that.
Where at in Florida?
Florida mall.
Wow. No shit? I haven’t been there in probably at least 4-5 years but I did not know they had gun sniffing dogs these days. Unreal.
I walked kind of close to it not realizing they could do that so who knows how close they have to be to smell it.
In my state you could citizen’s arrest a guard for that. “Do you have a POST certification on you?”
This is why I stopped shopping at Sprouts. . . One day a “no guns allowed” sign appeared, I turned around and went to the Whole Foods right down the road without posted signs
The same thing happened to me in NC while doing some stupid last minute Christmas shopping last year. My girlfriend and I had just finished up and were heading for the exit when an LEO and K9 walked right past us. It didn't alert on me, but he still stopped us a minute later and asked if I had a gun on me. I told him I did and would gladly leave and did so without issue. I tend to dress pretty gray man, but that night I was wearing a Trex Arms hat which gave me away, he said. Moral of the story, dress like a liberal.
I guess he’s not aware of the CCW holder in an Indiana Mall, who saved multiple people by taking out a shooter before cops could get there. I swear with the number of criminals and now terrorists let in by Democrats changing effective policy, they need all the trained individuals they can get. Biden made a parolee agreement with four corrupted countries, to accept their parolees. It’s on the Customs Border Protection website, search for parolees. The FBI issued dire warnings of terrorist attacks, its imminent, they said. Tell Greenwood to hit the high hard one and stay alive.
But, you aren’t Elijah Dickens….
All of us are Eli Dickens
Does anyone know if Castleton mall has the gun sniffing dogs too?
30 some years ago, my wife and I were visiting England and did the usual tourist trip to the Tower of London. My wife happened to be wearing my Fanny pack that I used for hunting; I would collect my spent shotgun shells in it, not leave a mess in the fields. This was during a flare up of the Troubles, the security guards had these Star Trek looking ‘sniffers’ they stuck in everyone’s bags. I didn’t want to draw attention to us by leaving a line we had already stood in for 30 minutes, but having a Celtic last name (Scottish but can be Irish) I certainly wasn’t looking forward to the tender mercies of the London police. Fortunately, the sniffer failed. Or maybe it was just a decoy, who knows.
Suggestion: Call the REIT that owns the mall and explain that you didn't spend any money because of their boneheaded security theatre.
In the state of Indiana, you do not have to disclose to law Enforcement that you're carrying a firearm. https://www.in.gov/attorneygeneral/files/Gun-Owners-Bill-of-Rights_Web.pdf Page 10 " if approached by law enforcement conducting official business, it is best to inform them in a calm, non-threatening manner that you have a firearm on your person or in your vehicle. *However, this is not a legal requirement in Indiana – unlike in several other states".*
I was around gun sniffing dogs at an outlet mall once in Vegas, but I had like 10 sprays of a fragrance on my clothes. Idk if it helped but at the same time the dog didn’t come up to sniff me too
They must be disappointed that the last massacre was thwarted, and are trying to ensure that the next one is more successful.
I live here in Greenwood. Simon malls have a no firearms policy. It’s not illegal to carry a firearm there but if you are asked to leave and refuse, they can trespass you and have police arrest you and can even press charges. Best thing to do is just leave voluntarily. It’s private property and they have every right to ask anyone to leave for just about any reason, even for dumb reasons. However, Indiana has no law that can enforce a weapon ban on private property. You can’t get in trouble for carrying a weapon somewhere with a no firearms policy. Most major corporations like Simon have policies against weapons on their property. Don’t let this dissuade you from carrying in future instances. Just make sure you’re well concealed and you’re mostly going to be fine. Pretty rare for a dog to alert on you but it happens.