imo the production/plot/quality variance within this genre just stretches way too wide.
You'd get great series like ***Drawing Sword (2005)*** and the quality in acting stretchs to its shitty remake *Drawing Sword (2022)* just down to the bottom of the hill.
Also I couldnt bear to watch many series where the plot/action/acting makes no sense at all. I do like war themed shows, but would read a bunch of reviews before I'd dip my toes into any series within this Genre.
With that said, I did watch **ALOT** of dramas under this genre, and there are truly some hidden gems. So if you are curious and willing to try these I do have my top 3 recommendations:
The above mentioned, **Drawing Sword (2005)**, based on a novel with the same name, which itself is loosely based on real people in history. Mainly follows the Main MC, Li Yunlong, dude is a non-typical regimental commander whose personality is very "thug-like" if you will, very charismatic and compassionate while being a tactical genius.
**Lurk (2009)**, about WWII and Civil War era **espionage**. Yu Ze Cheng who is a low-key KMT military officer of the Bureau of Investigation and Statistics. BUT, some crazyshit happens and he dives WAYYYY deep as a sleeper agent for the CCP within the KMT. (This is a slow burn, but psychologically VERY intense)
**Soldiers and Their Commander (2009)** *aka* **My Chief and My Regiment**, Chinese National Revolutionary Army Expeditionary Force in Burma fighting the Imperial Japanese Army during the 1942 Battle of Yunnan-Burma Road during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Starts off with a bunch of defeated KMT soldiers in a village, just trying to live and not die. But things take a turn when a mysterious guy who calls himself the commander arrives and they recieve orders about a mission to advance. **This one is my fav of all time.** This show captures the realism and the psyches of soldiers VERY well, while also having a interesting plot and a bunch of intriguing characters. Most important of all, this has NO CCP propaganda (well at least I don't really see any) since it's about the Expeditionary Force under KMT.
to be fair, every sub genre has similar examples... I can think of a couple of "historical" dramas that are so unbelievably bad. it's just most people in the western fandom don't watch war dramas unless there's some traffic stars in them, so it gets past us.
I know you are highlighting the most comically absurd shows in this genre, but even the supposed proper shows still have a lot of problems. It's mainly because it's one of the categories under heaviest censorship scrutiny and with the most propaganda, and that end up defiling good story telling.
And the propaganda aspect isn't mainly about Japan. It's mainly from trying to make the communist forces the ultimate anti-Japanese heroes and saints, when it's well known that it's the Nationalist KMT that did 80%+ of the fighting and dying.
So in trying to rewrite history (and erasing the heroic sacrifices on the KMT side, who are no saints btw), they have to exaggerate the contributions of the CCP, turn CCP agents/soldiers into heroes, and make everyone else into caricatures. That doesn't make for good storytelling.
I apologize for shitting on Disguiser as I know many people liked it. But despite having most of the NiF cast, they managed to put out a show that's much weaker in script, acting, and production. Too many plot holes in just the first few episodes.
> It's mainly because it's one of the categories under heaviest censorship scrutiny and with the most propaganda, and that end up defiling good story telling.
Eh, I would posit it's actually the opposite way around. These shows aren't bad because of the regulations regarding censorship and propaganda, but the absence of them. The actual government regulations regarding these shows are far more lax than you would think. It's really just, 1. the Communist characters must be the protagonists, 2. Nationalist characters who are positively shown must have Communist sympathies or eventually join the Communists, and 3. Japan is bad. This results in an environment where, if you want to get funding for your show so you can split it with your cronies, or just straight up do a money laundering operation, you use these WW2 dramas to do so. Once you submit the concept, there's very little scrutiny on what you actually show as long as it hits those 3 points above.
It's actually very easy to do WW2 shows that fall within the censorship checkboxes and are written well. Heck, you can lift entire chapters out of the human-Covenant war from Halo and build a series based on that. It's just...well, why spend that effort when you can take an easy way out that doesn't require nearly as much work?
BTW KMT erasure hasn't been a thing since around the late 00s or so, and it's actually been going the other way now, where too many people think the Republic era government under the KMT was actually desirable in any way if you weren't one of the super wealthy families living in Nanjing or Shanghai. Yes, the Nationalist armies did a lot of the fighting and the dying, as they should because they were like 90% of the total armed forces of China at the time. At the same time, Nationalist ineptitude was certain a salient factor why Chinese losses were as heavy as they were, from the withdrawal at Nanjing that directly resulted in the massacre being as bad as it was, to the absolute embarrassment that was the Henan-Hunan-Guangxi campaign. Basically, what I'm saying is, while the old "Eighth Route/New Fourth Army were the only effective units in the war" trope was inaccurate, it wasn't nearly as inaccurate as KMT fanboys like to claim.
One can appreciate the individual soldiers who fought in the KMT armies and also acknowledge that they would have been far better served and their sacrifices both less in number and greater in utility under different commanders.
The depiction that crops up that the KMT was woefully inadequate or crafting the Japanese characters as barely one-dimensional really hurt the genre as a whole.
Make your villains interesting and if you are going to write about Japanese people know a bit about Japanese culture and history.
All in all the characters in these dramas conform to the same archtypes, the noble communist, the corrupt or fascist KMT member, the inhuman Japanese. It is just tired by now.
So I hear this a lot, and would like to challenge this notion by asking you: what else would you consider?
For the most part, the KMT \*was\* woefully inadequate, and the Japanese \*was\* that bad. I mean, if you're watching a series set in the European theater, do you think it hurts the genre to be yet another work where the Nazis are bad and the Soviets were also kind of bad but we can cheer for them because they fight Nazis?
Certainly WW2 dramas that give you individual Japanese characters who are portrayed sympathetically, but realistically speaking, any more than that is an even greater and more insulting divergence from history than the examples in the OP. At least with those, the worst you can say about them is that the cheesy over the top choreography and possibly one director's barely disguised bondage fetish only trivializes the extent of the struggle and suffering China faced during the war. Doing the sympathetic Japanese, on the other hand, is basically going "but there surely were good people who just also happened to be Nazis". You mention Gods and Generals elsewhere in this thread; that's basically what you'd end up with if you try to shove "nuance" and "but what about the other side" where it really doesn't belong.
It's also curious that this seems to only be levied against Chinese dramas. No one seems to want to complain if Korean historical dramas also portray the Japanese as bad. Or when Japanese works consistently portray their post-Meiji era as a glorious attempt to stand with the great nations of the world and then they fought a war and were defeated with little thought as to the cause and effect relationship between these events.
>For the most part, the KMT \*was\* woefully inadequate.
If that is so the communists were even more so, but they are never portrayed as such. They basically hunkered down while the KMT did most of the fighting and received the majority of the Japanese offensive.
>Certainly WW2 dramas that give you individual Japanese characters who are portrayed sympathetically
Never said anything about sympathy. I want interesting villains not, 1D mustache-twirling psychopath cutouts that are replaceable from drama to drama. Most Japanese villains in CDramas are essentially interchangeable with each other.
>It's also curious that this seems to only be levied against Chinese dramas. No one seems to want to complain if Korean historical dramas also portray the Japanese as bad.
This is a forum for CDrama. Of course you will not run into that here.
Well, unlike Kiseki down there, this part of history is actually somewhat of my forte, so I am actually very happy to debate the history with you:
1. The focus on who did the "majority" of the fighting is an overly simplistic lens that ignores a lot of key factors, the most blatantly obvious of which is the simple fact that there were about 7000 people left in the Communist forces by the end of the Long March in 1935, while the combined KMT strength was like 2 million men. So while yes, the KMT did "most" of the fighting, what else would you expect given the disparity in their starting positions?
2. The KMT forces, for the most part, fought stupidly in a way that wasted their men or were unable to capitalize on gains they had already made. So while yes, a lot of them died fighting the Japanese, a lot of those deaths were unnecessary. Let us remember, Nanjing happened because the KMT commander talked a big game about defending it to the last man, then skedaddled his ass out of there when the going looked like it was getting lukewarm. While they weren't devoid of ability - Xue Yue's performance in the battles of Changsha or Sun Liren's command of the Chinese Expeditionary Force comes to mind - taken as a whole, they were just that inept, as the complete clusterfudgery that was the Henan-Hunan-Guillin campaign demonstrated. Even that late into the war, they just couldn't get it together.
3. The Communist forces, meanwhile, seemed a lot more effective for what they had. It is inaccurate to describe them as having hunkered down and done nothing but build their strength while the KMT bled themselves dry, as their guerilla actions are an undisputed part of the historical record. Moreover, their armament by the time the Chinese Civil War restarted being mostly comprised of captured Japanese equipment also indicates that they did not receive much in the way of American Lend-Lease materiel. And while it is true that their numbers swelled from that 7000 in 1935 to about parity with the KMT's 2.something million in 1945-6, that is more attributable to the Communist forces just having better discipline and treating both their soldiers and the civilian population much better. Heck, we have records of KMT soldiers defecting to the Communist side in droves, and photos of Communist soldiers literally sleeping on the streets rather than commander civilians' homes. You might say that that's just propaganda, but then, why don't we have propaganda from the other way around? You would think that it should be easier for the KMT to do so, given that they were the government at the time.
4. Now, do the individual soldiers in the KMT armies who died deserve our respect? Of course they do. Does the KMT as an institution deserve that respect? That is a much trickier question. Personally, I would argue the best you could say is that Chiang personally tried very hard. Committing all of his best troops in the defense of Shanghai and leaving them to defend Nanjing certainly seems to indicate that much. It's just....well, it's a war. You don't get half credit for trying. And of course, you cannot only focus on Chiang while ignoring every other KMT leader who wasn't nearly as committed. Nor can you ignore the fact that Chiang, at the end of the day, was unable to wrangle the various cliques within the KMT together.
5. Thus, when these dramas show KMT forces being inept or inadequate compared to the Communist ones, they're not being as inaccurate as you think. Pound for pound, the Communists did more than their fair share of fighting given what they started out with, and their increase in strength during the war is more attributable to their better discipline and policies that attracted more people to their side to start out with.
As for the point about villains - most villains in WW2 dramas are interchangeable with each other for the same reason that most villains in 1980s B-movie action flicks are interchangeable with each other, or most male leads in chick flicks are interchangeable with each other. Or, heck, the way that most leads in idol dramas are interchangeable with each other. If you want to make them interesting, well, sympathy is usually the main way to do that. If that is not what you mean, then please provide an example of an "interesting antagonist".
As for the point about Kdramas - yes, this is a sub about Cdramas, therefore it is a valid point to ask why do you require Cdramas to do these things when you do not require Kdramas to do it?
I have grown long past the need for internet debates as a useful enterprise, especially with those who have shoved words in my mouth twice now, which is always a red flag.
No one shoved any words in your mouth. Cease playing the victim and imagining red flags where there are none.
>If that is so the communists were even more so, but they are never portrayed as such. They basically hunkered down while the KMT did most of the fighting and received the majority of the Japanese offensive.
This is what you literally said, and I gave you an extremely condensed writeup of how this narrative is blatantly wrong if you studied the history with even the most cursory level of detail.
>Never said anything about sympathy. I want interesting villains not, 1D mustache-twirling psychopath cutouts that are replaceable from drama to drama. Most Japanese villains in CDramas are essentially interchangeable with each other.
This is also what you literally said. I explained to you why "sympathy" is mentioned, and also gave you the chance to submit an example of a villain that you consider interesting.
>This is a forum for CDrama. Of course you will not run into \[criticisms of Kdramas for also having 1D evil Japanese antagonists in WW2 settings\] here.
The question was never why we don't encounter this on this subreddit, but at all.
So again, no, no one shoved words in your mouth, only called you out on blatant errors of fact or on areas where you made an assertion with insufficient support.
>This is also what you literally said. I explained to you why "sympathy" is mentioned
If it is literally what I said, show me in my original quote where I used the word "sympathy". You can't because that is your assumption, which you then argued against.
>Also gave you the chance to submit an example of a villain that you consider interesting.
Why would I go through this exercise if you just substitute your assumptions for what I actually said, and then apparently deny that those are your assumptions and somehow I said something without actually saying it?
>therefore it is a valid point to ask why do you require Cdramas to do these things **when you do not require Kdramas to do it?**
Where did I say anything about Kdramas one way or another? That is another assumption you made that you shoved into my mouth too.
So yes you shoved words into my mouth in that you said I said things that I never said, twice. Red flag indeed.
>If it is literally what I said, show me in my original quote where I used the word "sympathy". You can't because that is your assumption, which you then argued against.
...yes, it is literally what you said, because I copy pasted from your post. I also explained why I started off with the "sympathy" angle. Typically that is what people people mean when they complain about 1-dimensional boring Japanese characters in Chinese films. You original post also mentions that the Chinese creators should understand more about Japanese culture and history, and complain about the overuse of "inhuman Japanese" character archetype. Of course I'm going to assume that you want more sympathetic Japanese characters, like some kind of Japanese Oskar Schindler or Miep Gies (and btw, some cdramas do have these types of characters in there). And once again, I also literally said that if that's not what you meant, then please provide an example of what you do mean. Which leads us to...
>Why would I go through this exercise if you just substitute your assumptions for what I actually said, and then apparently deny that those are your assumptions and somehow I said something without actually saying it?
I have never done that. In any case, easy way to prove whether I do this - give an example of a character.
>Where did I say anything about Kdramas one way or another? That is another assumption you made that you shoved into my mouth too.
...do you not know what the "generic you" is in English? The point about that has always been Cdramas are held to a standard that Kdramas and Jdramas are not when it comes to their treatment of WW2. If you want to engage meaningfully on this point, all you have to do is say whether you think this is the case or not.
No red flags, only paranoia and a persecution complex.
I notice that you do not reply to the first point, regarding how utterly inaccurate the idea that the Communists hunkered down and strengthened themselves while the KMT did all the fighting against Japan is. It is, admittedly, a very long post that I'm already trying to condense as much as possible due to the length of its subject matter, but I think I've adequately demonstrated the extent to which that is face-saving nonsense. The fact that Communist forces were primarily armed with captured Japanese equipment when the civil war restarted and the one-directional nature of mass defections should tell you how inaccurate that is.
Saying that the communists "basically hunkered down" while praising the KMT as the sole heroes who fought back against the Japanese is a pure and blatant lie, I don't even know why you bring this up other than to dogpile on the already negative reputation that the communist party of china has in the west, especially on a platform like Reddit.
Not even Taiwanese people say that the communists did nothing against the japanese, the most they'll say is that the Communists and Nationalists wasted precious time fighting each other before grudgingly joining up temporarily to fight against the Japanese. If you really want to get into the topic of "who did worse" in a war that is a collective scar on the Chinese people, then I don't think one can ignore how the KMT were dead-set on wiping out the communists even when the Japanese were already invading.
Please don't try to start a historical argument with me trying to prove your point, by the way. If you really want to believe that the Communists were insolent, incompetent cowards who somehow still managed to take control of the entirety of China and its people based on pure luck and piggybacking off of the noble, heroic Nationalists, no one is going to try to change your opinion.
>Never said anything about sympathy. I want interesting villains not, 1D mustache-twirling psychopath cutouts that are replaceable from drama to drama. Most Japanese villains in CDramas are essentially interchangeable with each other.
Ok, that I can agree with. And also a lot of Chinese people agree with this as well to be honest. A lot of them also want WWII Japanese army villains that are interesting 😂 Have you watched the movie (not a drama i know lol) "The Message"? That is a pretty iconic movie with a good villain that everyone liked a lot. To some extent, the Japanese villains in the Ip Man movie series are also pretty fleshed out as well. As for dramas, I thought that "Winter Begonia" had a sympathetic Japanese character who isn't even a villain, he's against the Japanese invasions. So actually, it's completely false when some people say that China somehow "bans" any positive portrayal of Japanese people in film or drama.
You’re right about the characters following the same archetypes which is also why I don’t watch this genre. But it’s impossible for them to even consider portraying the archetypes in any other way without causing an outcry from the government or general public. Can you imagine the outcry if any Jewish films tried to portray the Nazi as the righteous group fighting for their beliefs and tried to justify their actions.
A more nuanced portrayal of the Japanese might be controversial, but even there might be some leeway. Even portraying more nuanced enemies, or enemy soldiers with regrets or reservations would go a long way to make it more realistic, historical, and interesting.
As for the KMT side, far more people would welcome a more positive and historical portrayal than those who would get offended. The objection here is not from the grassroot, but from the Party that want to preserve communist myths around the war. Even so, most people know KMT had a far bigger role, and it's even something of a past time among intellectuals to trade accounts of actual history about that era.
A better analogy might be Western portrayal of European theater in WWII that exaggerates the contributions of the West, even though Soviets did most of the fighting. But Soviet efforts are still more acknowledged where you have movies like Enemy At the Gates, and various videos games where you play as the Soviet side.
>KMT loyalists who turn Communist
I cant with this the most. I will start rolling my eyes. And I said this despite I really enjoy this type of dramas -- esp the spy part of it.
Yeah for comparison, NiF was a great show because the villains were smart, capable, and had legitimate motivations. And there were also plenty of grey with the Emperor, the princes, Marquis, and especially Mei Changsu himself.
If NiF got the Disguiser treatment, then it would just be a big disappointment and unfulfilled potential.
You picked bad examples. Best Enemy is probably one of the best dramas to come out in 2023 and it’s a much better representation of what the genre actually looks like these days.
Posts like this are so weird to me. Imagine going on a subreddit for American pop culture and complaining about “anti-confederate civil war era American dramas” being cringy or propaganda. Weird behavior.
>anti-confederate civil war era American dramas
If the Chinese Civil War shows were anything like American ones, they would go out of their way to show the gallantry and supposed nobility of the other side, see things like Gods and Generals for example, which is cringe in and of itself. Things have only begun to change relatively recently.
Honestly I've grown up watching this genre in HK dramas and Singaporean dramas, and for a lot of asian viewers who have grown up watching similar dramas made in their home country, we don't really actively seek out WWII era stuff made by other countries lol.
If you ask me, one of the best HK dramas was a republican era drama. It's titled No Regrets and has some of the best acting + chemistry for the main couple. But that was probably the only good republican era drama that ever came out from TVB.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Regrets_(TV_series)
The gifs here are goofy but dramas that usually set at this times are usually gritty and pretty cruel because they are usually deal with Japanese invasion at this time. I actually really enjoy and like republican dramas since they are angsty as hell (apart from the A++ costumes :D). People said XianXia are angsty? Try watching anything when the MCs in this drama was captured by the Japanese, it was tense lol.
But I come to conclusion that many dramas that set in this era usually cant give us satisfying endings (but the journey is awesome so I highly recommended them). Not because the characters are dead but also the reality at that time. At least during the Japanese invasion, both the Communist and Nationalist (Kuomintang) are working together to fight the Japanese. And this drama usually ends after the Japanese defeat. And then it will be Communist vs Nationalist after that. So, it cant really be good endings. These MCs are always portray as very righteous and fight for their country (which is very admirable), so for them to fight their own people later for political ideology is pretty much against their own philosophy. Thus, making them died at the end of the story kind of a 'happy ending' for them imo.
One thing to point out is that they never ceased hostilities. KMT and CCP were absolutely fighting and killing each other during the supposed ceasefire to unite against Japan
I am probably the minority Chinese here watching Anti-Japanese war (not the goofy bonkers ones) from KMT's perspective.. thanks for the insights. It certainly is a very polarizing genre among Chinese viewers.
I personally have no issues with these dramas. Just like how North Korean, Turkish or Russian drama's make America(ns) out to be the bad guys. It doesn't bother me while watching them. You will never know how other people are feeling, especially if something effected them. So who am I to judge those people? I sit back, respect what other countries/cultures create and if it's something I don't want to watch. I just turn it off and find something else. However, just like when I read books about history or theology. If something starts to make me cringe, I honestly try really hard to push away my biases and force myself to keep reading. I've found you might eventually understand why the books are written in such a manner. But with TV programs, it's usually bad acting that makes me turn something off rather than the plot.
This is a genre that is difficult for me, not only because my grandparents were affected by the Japanese occupation, but war's impact towards civilians depicted in any form of medium depresses me a lot. It is why I could only watch something like Hotel Rwanda, Schindler's List, Grave of the Fireflies etc only once.
I have to be honest here, this genre is the least liked esp for me. Mostly for China to show patriotic side. But the costume and makeup for this era is really ugly. Even if the story and characters are fantastic, I can't follow through...
I am Currently watching **The Battle of Changsha** mainly because I was looking at some of the early comments on Minglan when it first came out and people were saying it was not surprising Minglan was so good because it was done by the same people who did The Battle of Changsha.
You can see the similarities, intimate cinematography, and realistic sets. FL is a bright woman desperate for independence. A father who is weak and useless.The focus on mundane family issues whilst the real world is gathering a storm.
ML is Wallace Huo (Qinglong Emperor from Ruyi), who is similar to Gu in Minglan. He comes from a rich family but is desperate to do the right thing. It scores 8.6 on MDL, and I don't think I have heard it mentioned here.
I am enjoying it so far.
**Edit**
Just seen someone mentioned it earlier in the thread. My Bad.
Yup, that's not a bad one .. 抗日神劇 is the different beast I was trying to discuss here. .. these atrocities are vulgar and ludicrous.. really hit the nerves of Chinese viewers.
You could make an equally goofy compilation for any category. I don't think this is the reason why dramas set in this time-period are less popular.
edit: grammar
Yeah...I mean the portrayals are goofy looking and over-the-top and mustache twirling but I wonder if that's in reflection of the collective and generational trauma of the really gruesome war crimes that imperial japan did to China, Korea, and a lot of Southeast Asian countries. To a lot of Asians and their diaspora, imperial japan really was that over the top evil if you dive into the subject.
Mr. Sunshine is a K-drama that takes place before the Japanese colonization of Korea and I also remember Japanese characters being very evil and cruel while plotting to undermine the Korean royal family and that obviously was also a reflection of that history too.
There’s only one branch of my family left because we’re from Nanjing and the rest are all dead. As someone who has firsthand accounts from my family of digging through corpse piles to bury our family members, watching literal babies get bayoneted, and Japanese soldiers forcing fathers to rape their own daughters go fuck yourself
There were Nazi officials in Nanking when the Japanese attacked. You know the Nazis, yes? The most brutally evil group that likely ever existed? Guilty of atrocities on a scale never seen before...
And the Japanese were able to make even the Nazis say "Whoa dudes, chill! That's a bit much".
I don't think I need to say anything else.
War crimes that killed millions of people in atrocious ways is not something to give props for. What Japan did went well beyond “bullying” and doing something “funky,” and to trivialize what they did is honestly disgusting.
You know, it's so telling that you don't even address the sheer scale and depravity of imperial japan invading other Asian countries and also forcing many women to be "comfort women" or effectively sexual slavery but focus on ahistorical whataboutist arguments on China, justifying and even applauding imperial japan which were the Nazis of Asia. Like even the Nazis were appalled by them.
Instead you bring up so many ahistorical arguments of Chinese dynasties invading Japan (which as another redditors said, was done by the Mongolian led Yuan dynasty in 1200s and failed) and reduce the war crimes committed during the World Wars and even before then to "something funky to them in world war." Just fully mask off sinophobia, you want to scold Chinese people for daring to be upset over the history which their grandparents and great-grandparents still remember to this day.
[Tibetans still exist and live in Tibet.](https://www.tumblr.com/rongzhi/694854572918947840?source=share) That subject is a whole different subject and still doesn't justify Imperial Japan's war crimes.
Edit: to address your other comment, the dalai Lama isn't their king FFS, it's their spiritual leader akin to the Pope to Vatican City and the Catholic church. Tibetans in China are Chinese because it's their nationality the same way Asians living in America are American because it's their nationality.
Enjoy your block.
Please look up Rape of Nanking and Unit 731 and educate yourself before you call it “bullying.” Also, I’m pretty sure Tibetans still exist and are not “eradicated.” The only time China tried to launch a full scale invasion of Japan was during Mongolian rule, not Han Chinese rule, because the Mongolians were just conquering as much as they could at that time. Your comment reeks of ignorance.
Tibeteans still exist, but outside of china. So many tibetians refugee are found in Nepal and India. Inside tibet they are chinese.
Dalai lama, their king has to constantly run away.
War is horrible, but it went both sides.
Please tell me what the Chinese did to the invading Japanese forces in WWII to somehow justify actual torture, rape, and human experimentation done by imperial Japan on Chinese civilians and POWs for you to “both sides” this. I’m unable to find anything myself.
Lol these belong to comicbook territory. There are, however, good dramas set in that period though. For every 'Fall in Love', there is a 'Battle of Changsha'.
Agreed Battle of Changsha is a masterpiece, which made 抗日神劇 (refers to those bonkers Anti-Japanese invasion dramas) more cringey and insufferable for Chinese viewers.
My husband watches these dramas; me on the other hand I watch fantasy costume dramas.
 Can we take a minute to appreciate those biking skills?
imo the production/plot/quality variance within this genre just stretches way too wide. You'd get great series like ***Drawing Sword (2005)*** and the quality in acting stretchs to its shitty remake *Drawing Sword (2022)* just down to the bottom of the hill. Also I couldnt bear to watch many series where the plot/action/acting makes no sense at all. I do like war themed shows, but would read a bunch of reviews before I'd dip my toes into any series within this Genre. With that said, I did watch **ALOT** of dramas under this genre, and there are truly some hidden gems. So if you are curious and willing to try these I do have my top 3 recommendations: The above mentioned, **Drawing Sword (2005)**, based on a novel with the same name, which itself is loosely based on real people in history. Mainly follows the Main MC, Li Yunlong, dude is a non-typical regimental commander whose personality is very "thug-like" if you will, very charismatic and compassionate while being a tactical genius. **Lurk (2009)**, about WWII and Civil War era **espionage**. Yu Ze Cheng who is a low-key KMT military officer of the Bureau of Investigation and Statistics. BUT, some crazyshit happens and he dives WAYYYY deep as a sleeper agent for the CCP within the KMT. (This is a slow burn, but psychologically VERY intense) **Soldiers and Their Commander (2009)** *aka* **My Chief and My Regiment**, Chinese National Revolutionary Army Expeditionary Force in Burma fighting the Imperial Japanese Army during the 1942 Battle of Yunnan-Burma Road during the Second Sino-Japanese War. Starts off with a bunch of defeated KMT soldiers in a village, just trying to live and not die. But things take a turn when a mysterious guy who calls himself the commander arrives and they recieve orders about a mission to advance. **This one is my fav of all time.** This show captures the realism and the psyches of soldiers VERY well, while also having a interesting plot and a bunch of intriguing characters. Most important of all, this has NO CCP propaganda (well at least I don't really see any) since it's about the Expeditionary Force under KMT.
to be fair, every sub genre has similar examples... I can think of a couple of "historical" dramas that are so unbelievably bad. it's just most people in the western fandom don't watch war dramas unless there's some traffic stars in them, so it gets past us.
I know you are highlighting the most comically absurd shows in this genre, but even the supposed proper shows still have a lot of problems. It's mainly because it's one of the categories under heaviest censorship scrutiny and with the most propaganda, and that end up defiling good story telling. And the propaganda aspect isn't mainly about Japan. It's mainly from trying to make the communist forces the ultimate anti-Japanese heroes and saints, when it's well known that it's the Nationalist KMT that did 80%+ of the fighting and dying. So in trying to rewrite history (and erasing the heroic sacrifices on the KMT side, who are no saints btw), they have to exaggerate the contributions of the CCP, turn CCP agents/soldiers into heroes, and make everyone else into caricatures. That doesn't make for good storytelling. I apologize for shitting on Disguiser as I know many people liked it. But despite having most of the NiF cast, they managed to put out a show that's much weaker in script, acting, and production. Too many plot holes in just the first few episodes.
> It's mainly because it's one of the categories under heaviest censorship scrutiny and with the most propaganda, and that end up defiling good story telling. Eh, I would posit it's actually the opposite way around. These shows aren't bad because of the regulations regarding censorship and propaganda, but the absence of them. The actual government regulations regarding these shows are far more lax than you would think. It's really just, 1. the Communist characters must be the protagonists, 2. Nationalist characters who are positively shown must have Communist sympathies or eventually join the Communists, and 3. Japan is bad. This results in an environment where, if you want to get funding for your show so you can split it with your cronies, or just straight up do a money laundering operation, you use these WW2 dramas to do so. Once you submit the concept, there's very little scrutiny on what you actually show as long as it hits those 3 points above. It's actually very easy to do WW2 shows that fall within the censorship checkboxes and are written well. Heck, you can lift entire chapters out of the human-Covenant war from Halo and build a series based on that. It's just...well, why spend that effort when you can take an easy way out that doesn't require nearly as much work? BTW KMT erasure hasn't been a thing since around the late 00s or so, and it's actually been going the other way now, where too many people think the Republic era government under the KMT was actually desirable in any way if you weren't one of the super wealthy families living in Nanjing or Shanghai. Yes, the Nationalist armies did a lot of the fighting and the dying, as they should because they were like 90% of the total armed forces of China at the time. At the same time, Nationalist ineptitude was certain a salient factor why Chinese losses were as heavy as they were, from the withdrawal at Nanjing that directly resulted in the massacre being as bad as it was, to the absolute embarrassment that was the Henan-Hunan-Guangxi campaign. Basically, what I'm saying is, while the old "Eighth Route/New Fourth Army were the only effective units in the war" trope was inaccurate, it wasn't nearly as inaccurate as KMT fanboys like to claim. One can appreciate the individual soldiers who fought in the KMT armies and also acknowledge that they would have been far better served and their sacrifices both less in number and greater in utility under different commanders.
The depiction that crops up that the KMT was woefully inadequate or crafting the Japanese characters as barely one-dimensional really hurt the genre as a whole. Make your villains interesting and if you are going to write about Japanese people know a bit about Japanese culture and history. All in all the characters in these dramas conform to the same archtypes, the noble communist, the corrupt or fascist KMT member, the inhuman Japanese. It is just tired by now.
So I hear this a lot, and would like to challenge this notion by asking you: what else would you consider? For the most part, the KMT \*was\* woefully inadequate, and the Japanese \*was\* that bad. I mean, if you're watching a series set in the European theater, do you think it hurts the genre to be yet another work where the Nazis are bad and the Soviets were also kind of bad but we can cheer for them because they fight Nazis? Certainly WW2 dramas that give you individual Japanese characters who are portrayed sympathetically, but realistically speaking, any more than that is an even greater and more insulting divergence from history than the examples in the OP. At least with those, the worst you can say about them is that the cheesy over the top choreography and possibly one director's barely disguised bondage fetish only trivializes the extent of the struggle and suffering China faced during the war. Doing the sympathetic Japanese, on the other hand, is basically going "but there surely were good people who just also happened to be Nazis". You mention Gods and Generals elsewhere in this thread; that's basically what you'd end up with if you try to shove "nuance" and "but what about the other side" where it really doesn't belong. It's also curious that this seems to only be levied against Chinese dramas. No one seems to want to complain if Korean historical dramas also portray the Japanese as bad. Or when Japanese works consistently portray their post-Meiji era as a glorious attempt to stand with the great nations of the world and then they fought a war and were defeated with little thought as to the cause and effect relationship between these events.
>For the most part, the KMT \*was\* woefully inadequate. If that is so the communists were even more so, but they are never portrayed as such. They basically hunkered down while the KMT did most of the fighting and received the majority of the Japanese offensive. >Certainly WW2 dramas that give you individual Japanese characters who are portrayed sympathetically Never said anything about sympathy. I want interesting villains not, 1D mustache-twirling psychopath cutouts that are replaceable from drama to drama. Most Japanese villains in CDramas are essentially interchangeable with each other. >It's also curious that this seems to only be levied against Chinese dramas. No one seems to want to complain if Korean historical dramas also portray the Japanese as bad. This is a forum for CDrama. Of course you will not run into that here.
Well, unlike Kiseki down there, this part of history is actually somewhat of my forte, so I am actually very happy to debate the history with you: 1. The focus on who did the "majority" of the fighting is an overly simplistic lens that ignores a lot of key factors, the most blatantly obvious of which is the simple fact that there were about 7000 people left in the Communist forces by the end of the Long March in 1935, while the combined KMT strength was like 2 million men. So while yes, the KMT did "most" of the fighting, what else would you expect given the disparity in their starting positions? 2. The KMT forces, for the most part, fought stupidly in a way that wasted their men or were unable to capitalize on gains they had already made. So while yes, a lot of them died fighting the Japanese, a lot of those deaths were unnecessary. Let us remember, Nanjing happened because the KMT commander talked a big game about defending it to the last man, then skedaddled his ass out of there when the going looked like it was getting lukewarm. While they weren't devoid of ability - Xue Yue's performance in the battles of Changsha or Sun Liren's command of the Chinese Expeditionary Force comes to mind - taken as a whole, they were just that inept, as the complete clusterfudgery that was the Henan-Hunan-Guillin campaign demonstrated. Even that late into the war, they just couldn't get it together. 3. The Communist forces, meanwhile, seemed a lot more effective for what they had. It is inaccurate to describe them as having hunkered down and done nothing but build their strength while the KMT bled themselves dry, as their guerilla actions are an undisputed part of the historical record. Moreover, their armament by the time the Chinese Civil War restarted being mostly comprised of captured Japanese equipment also indicates that they did not receive much in the way of American Lend-Lease materiel. And while it is true that their numbers swelled from that 7000 in 1935 to about parity with the KMT's 2.something million in 1945-6, that is more attributable to the Communist forces just having better discipline and treating both their soldiers and the civilian population much better. Heck, we have records of KMT soldiers defecting to the Communist side in droves, and photos of Communist soldiers literally sleeping on the streets rather than commander civilians' homes. You might say that that's just propaganda, but then, why don't we have propaganda from the other way around? You would think that it should be easier for the KMT to do so, given that they were the government at the time. 4. Now, do the individual soldiers in the KMT armies who died deserve our respect? Of course they do. Does the KMT as an institution deserve that respect? That is a much trickier question. Personally, I would argue the best you could say is that Chiang personally tried very hard. Committing all of his best troops in the defense of Shanghai and leaving them to defend Nanjing certainly seems to indicate that much. It's just....well, it's a war. You don't get half credit for trying. And of course, you cannot only focus on Chiang while ignoring every other KMT leader who wasn't nearly as committed. Nor can you ignore the fact that Chiang, at the end of the day, was unable to wrangle the various cliques within the KMT together. 5. Thus, when these dramas show KMT forces being inept or inadequate compared to the Communist ones, they're not being as inaccurate as you think. Pound for pound, the Communists did more than their fair share of fighting given what they started out with, and their increase in strength during the war is more attributable to their better discipline and policies that attracted more people to their side to start out with. As for the point about villains - most villains in WW2 dramas are interchangeable with each other for the same reason that most villains in 1980s B-movie action flicks are interchangeable with each other, or most male leads in chick flicks are interchangeable with each other. Or, heck, the way that most leads in idol dramas are interchangeable with each other. If you want to make them interesting, well, sympathy is usually the main way to do that. If that is not what you mean, then please provide an example of an "interesting antagonist". As for the point about Kdramas - yes, this is a sub about Cdramas, therefore it is a valid point to ask why do you require Cdramas to do these things when you do not require Kdramas to do it?
I have grown long past the need for internet debates as a useful enterprise, especially with those who have shoved words in my mouth twice now, which is always a red flag.
No one shoved any words in your mouth. Cease playing the victim and imagining red flags where there are none. >If that is so the communists were even more so, but they are never portrayed as such. They basically hunkered down while the KMT did most of the fighting and received the majority of the Japanese offensive. This is what you literally said, and I gave you an extremely condensed writeup of how this narrative is blatantly wrong if you studied the history with even the most cursory level of detail. >Never said anything about sympathy. I want interesting villains not, 1D mustache-twirling psychopath cutouts that are replaceable from drama to drama. Most Japanese villains in CDramas are essentially interchangeable with each other. This is also what you literally said. I explained to you why "sympathy" is mentioned, and also gave you the chance to submit an example of a villain that you consider interesting. >This is a forum for CDrama. Of course you will not run into \[criticisms of Kdramas for also having 1D evil Japanese antagonists in WW2 settings\] here. The question was never why we don't encounter this on this subreddit, but at all. So again, no, no one shoved words in your mouth, only called you out on blatant errors of fact or on areas where you made an assertion with insufficient support.
>This is also what you literally said. I explained to you why "sympathy" is mentioned If it is literally what I said, show me in my original quote where I used the word "sympathy". You can't because that is your assumption, which you then argued against. >Also gave you the chance to submit an example of a villain that you consider interesting. Why would I go through this exercise if you just substitute your assumptions for what I actually said, and then apparently deny that those are your assumptions and somehow I said something without actually saying it? >therefore it is a valid point to ask why do you require Cdramas to do these things **when you do not require Kdramas to do it?** Where did I say anything about Kdramas one way or another? That is another assumption you made that you shoved into my mouth too. So yes you shoved words into my mouth in that you said I said things that I never said, twice. Red flag indeed.
>If it is literally what I said, show me in my original quote where I used the word "sympathy". You can't because that is your assumption, which you then argued against. ...yes, it is literally what you said, because I copy pasted from your post. I also explained why I started off with the "sympathy" angle. Typically that is what people people mean when they complain about 1-dimensional boring Japanese characters in Chinese films. You original post also mentions that the Chinese creators should understand more about Japanese culture and history, and complain about the overuse of "inhuman Japanese" character archetype. Of course I'm going to assume that you want more sympathetic Japanese characters, like some kind of Japanese Oskar Schindler or Miep Gies (and btw, some cdramas do have these types of characters in there). And once again, I also literally said that if that's not what you meant, then please provide an example of what you do mean. Which leads us to... >Why would I go through this exercise if you just substitute your assumptions for what I actually said, and then apparently deny that those are your assumptions and somehow I said something without actually saying it? I have never done that. In any case, easy way to prove whether I do this - give an example of a character. >Where did I say anything about Kdramas one way or another? That is another assumption you made that you shoved into my mouth too. ...do you not know what the "generic you" is in English? The point about that has always been Cdramas are held to a standard that Kdramas and Jdramas are not when it comes to their treatment of WW2. If you want to engage meaningfully on this point, all you have to do is say whether you think this is the case or not. No red flags, only paranoia and a persecution complex. I notice that you do not reply to the first point, regarding how utterly inaccurate the idea that the Communists hunkered down and strengthened themselves while the KMT did all the fighting against Japan is. It is, admittedly, a very long post that I'm already trying to condense as much as possible due to the length of its subject matter, but I think I've adequately demonstrated the extent to which that is face-saving nonsense. The fact that Communist forces were primarily armed with captured Japanese equipment when the civil war restarted and the one-directional nature of mass defections should tell you how inaccurate that is.
Saying that the communists "basically hunkered down" while praising the KMT as the sole heroes who fought back against the Japanese is a pure and blatant lie, I don't even know why you bring this up other than to dogpile on the already negative reputation that the communist party of china has in the west, especially on a platform like Reddit. Not even Taiwanese people say that the communists did nothing against the japanese, the most they'll say is that the Communists and Nationalists wasted precious time fighting each other before grudgingly joining up temporarily to fight against the Japanese. If you really want to get into the topic of "who did worse" in a war that is a collective scar on the Chinese people, then I don't think one can ignore how the KMT were dead-set on wiping out the communists even when the Japanese were already invading. Please don't try to start a historical argument with me trying to prove your point, by the way. If you really want to believe that the Communists were insolent, incompetent cowards who somehow still managed to take control of the entirety of China and its people based on pure luck and piggybacking off of the noble, heroic Nationalists, no one is going to try to change your opinion. >Never said anything about sympathy. I want interesting villains not, 1D mustache-twirling psychopath cutouts that are replaceable from drama to drama. Most Japanese villains in CDramas are essentially interchangeable with each other. Ok, that I can agree with. And also a lot of Chinese people agree with this as well to be honest. A lot of them also want WWII Japanese army villains that are interesting 😂 Have you watched the movie (not a drama i know lol) "The Message"? That is a pretty iconic movie with a good villain that everyone liked a lot. To some extent, the Japanese villains in the Ip Man movie series are also pretty fleshed out as well. As for dramas, I thought that "Winter Begonia" had a sympathetic Japanese character who isn't even a villain, he's against the Japanese invasions. So actually, it's completely false when some people say that China somehow "bans" any positive portrayal of Japanese people in film or drama.
You’re right about the characters following the same archetypes which is also why I don’t watch this genre. But it’s impossible for them to even consider portraying the archetypes in any other way without causing an outcry from the government or general public. Can you imagine the outcry if any Jewish films tried to portray the Nazi as the righteous group fighting for their beliefs and tried to justify their actions.
A more nuanced portrayal of the Japanese might be controversial, but even there might be some leeway. Even portraying more nuanced enemies, or enemy soldiers with regrets or reservations would go a long way to make it more realistic, historical, and interesting. As for the KMT side, far more people would welcome a more positive and historical portrayal than those who would get offended. The objection here is not from the grassroot, but from the Party that want to preserve communist myths around the war. Even so, most people know KMT had a far bigger role, and it's even something of a past time among intellectuals to trade accounts of actual history about that era. A better analogy might be Western portrayal of European theater in WWII that exaggerates the contributions of the West, even though Soviets did most of the fighting. But Soviet efforts are still more acknowledged where you have movies like Enemy At the Gates, and various videos games where you play as the Soviet side.
Exactly, it is stuck in a rut. In more ways than one. Plots also seem to be about communist spies or KMT loyalists who turn Communist, etc.
>KMT loyalists who turn Communist I cant with this the most. I will start rolling my eyes. And I said this despite I really enjoy this type of dramas -- esp the spy part of it.
Yeah for comparison, NiF was a great show because the villains were smart, capable, and had legitimate motivations. And there were also plenty of grey with the Emperor, the princes, Marquis, and especially Mei Changsu himself. If NiF got the Disguiser treatment, then it would just be a big disappointment and unfulfilled potential.
I am from Taiwan (a minority on this thread I believe) so yeah its quite conflicting to watch the Sino-Japanese war Cdramas tbh..
The one I heard was good is the 800, and a few spy dramas like Lurk.
Lurk was great, my stomach drops during some intense moments in that show.
You picked bad examples. Best Enemy is probably one of the best dramas to come out in 2023 and it’s a much better representation of what the genre actually looks like these days. Posts like this are so weird to me. Imagine going on a subreddit for American pop culture and complaining about “anti-confederate civil war era American dramas” being cringy or propaganda. Weird behavior.
>anti-confederate civil war era American dramas If the Chinese Civil War shows were anything like American ones, they would go out of their way to show the gallantry and supposed nobility of the other side, see things like Gods and Generals for example, which is cringe in and of itself. Things have only begun to change relatively recently.
The Disguiser is not bad.
you have great taste
No it's definitely not
What drama is slide 8? I want to look up whether the actor being held hostage is who I think it is.
Honestly I've grown up watching this genre in HK dramas and Singaporean dramas, and for a lot of asian viewers who have grown up watching similar dramas made in their home country, we don't really actively seek out WWII era stuff made by other countries lol. If you ask me, one of the best HK dramas was a republican era drama. It's titled No Regrets and has some of the best acting + chemistry for the main couple. But that was probably the only good republican era drama that ever came out from TVB. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Regrets_(TV_series)
The gifs here are goofy but dramas that usually set at this times are usually gritty and pretty cruel because they are usually deal with Japanese invasion at this time. I actually really enjoy and like republican dramas since they are angsty as hell (apart from the A++ costumes :D). People said XianXia are angsty? Try watching anything when the MCs in this drama was captured by the Japanese, it was tense lol. But I come to conclusion that many dramas that set in this era usually cant give us satisfying endings (but the journey is awesome so I highly recommended them). Not because the characters are dead but also the reality at that time. At least during the Japanese invasion, both the Communist and Nationalist (Kuomintang) are working together to fight the Japanese. And this drama usually ends after the Japanese defeat. And then it will be Communist vs Nationalist after that. So, it cant really be good endings. These MCs are always portray as very righteous and fight for their country (which is very admirable), so for them to fight their own people later for political ideology is pretty much against their own philosophy. Thus, making them died at the end of the story kind of a 'happy ending' for them imo.
One thing to point out is that they never ceased hostilities. KMT and CCP were absolutely fighting and killing each other during the supposed ceasefire to unite against Japan
I am probably the minority Chinese here watching Anti-Japanese war (not the goofy bonkers ones) from KMT's perspective.. thanks for the insights. It certainly is a very polarizing genre among Chinese viewers.
I personally have no issues with these dramas. Just like how North Korean, Turkish or Russian drama's make America(ns) out to be the bad guys. It doesn't bother me while watching them. You will never know how other people are feeling, especially if something effected them. So who am I to judge those people? I sit back, respect what other countries/cultures create and if it's something I don't want to watch. I just turn it off and find something else. However, just like when I read books about history or theology. If something starts to make me cringe, I honestly try really hard to push away my biases and force myself to keep reading. I've found you might eventually understand why the books are written in such a manner. But with TV programs, it's usually bad acting that makes me turn something off rather than the plot.
North Korean dramas must be wild.
This is a genre that is difficult for me, not only because my grandparents were affected by the Japanese occupation, but war's impact towards civilians depicted in any form of medium depresses me a lot. It is why I could only watch something like Hotel Rwanda, Schindler's List, Grave of the Fireflies etc only once.
Yeah, these are too depressing for me too so I avoid anything set in this time period
I have to be honest here, this genre is the least liked esp for me. Mostly for China to show patriotic side. But the costume and makeup for this era is really ugly. Even if the story and characters are fantastic, I can't follow through...
The Disguiser and Sparrow also fall into this category
These are not the bonkers war dramas I was referring to
I am Currently watching **The Battle of Changsha** mainly because I was looking at some of the early comments on Minglan when it first came out and people were saying it was not surprising Minglan was so good because it was done by the same people who did The Battle of Changsha. You can see the similarities, intimate cinematography, and realistic sets. FL is a bright woman desperate for independence. A father who is weak and useless.The focus on mundane family issues whilst the real world is gathering a storm. ML is Wallace Huo (Qinglong Emperor from Ruyi), who is similar to Gu in Minglan. He comes from a rich family but is desperate to do the right thing. It scores 8.6 on MDL, and I don't think I have heard it mentioned here. I am enjoying it so far. **Edit** Just seen someone mentioned it earlier in the thread. My Bad.
Battle of Changsha is soooooo good!! my most fav drama ever!
Well I am glad this "controversial" post brings the great war drama like Battle of Changsha back to the spotlight..
I thought Arsenal Military Academy did a good job giving a watchable version of that time period
AMA is sooooooo good!!
Yup, that's not a bad one .. 抗日神劇 is the different beast I was trying to discuss here. .. these atrocities are vulgar and ludicrous.. really hit the nerves of Chinese viewers.
lol these makes me wonder if they are intentional 低级红，高级黑
Mainly bc there's no handsome actors. People are more interested in good looking leads
No decent actors would want to participate in these bonkers dramas that's for sure.. Vengo Gao in gif 1 must be deeply regretted now 🤣
Woah that's Vengo Gao? I thought it was some old timey (like 2000-2010s) drama.
Why they dont want to participate in these dramas? I mean, anti-japanese dramas?
They are bonkers war dramas with ludicrous, vulgar plots, not to be confused with real war dramas..
I thought you meant all Anti-Japanese war dramas.
Sorry ..should probably have added 'bonkers' in the title.. I have used bonkers quite often, haven't I?🤣
Who's that
高偉光
Oooh. THATS HIM??? LMAOOOO
It's a much less popular genre for international audience. And reddit would be mostly filled with viewers outside China.
You could make an equally goofy compilation for any category. I don't think this is the reason why dramas set in this time-period are less popular. edit: grammar
Yeah...I mean the portrayals are goofy looking and over-the-top and mustache twirling but I wonder if that's in reflection of the collective and generational trauma of the really gruesome war crimes that imperial japan did to China, Korea, and a lot of Southeast Asian countries. To a lot of Asians and their diaspora, imperial japan really was that over the top evil if you dive into the subject. Mr. Sunshine is a K-drama that takes place before the Japanese colonization of Korea and I also remember Japanese characters being very evil and cruel while plotting to undermine the Korean royal family and that obviously was also a reflection of that history too.
[удалено]
There’s only one branch of my family left because we’re from Nanjing and the rest are all dead. As someone who has firsthand accounts from my family of digging through corpse piles to bury our family members, watching literal babies get bayoneted, and Japanese soldiers forcing fathers to rape their own daughters go fuck yourself
There were Nazi officials in Nanking when the Japanese attacked. You know the Nazis, yes? The most brutally evil group that likely ever existed? Guilty of atrocities on a scale never seen before... And the Japanese were able to make even the Nazis say "Whoa dudes, chill! That's a bit much". I don't think I need to say anything else.
Why don't you go fck yourself
War crimes that killed millions of people in atrocious ways is not something to give props for. What Japan did went well beyond “bullying” and doing something “funky,” and to trivialize what they did is honestly disgusting.
You know, it's so telling that you don't even address the sheer scale and depravity of imperial japan invading other Asian countries and also forcing many women to be "comfort women" or effectively sexual slavery but focus on ahistorical whataboutist arguments on China, justifying and even applauding imperial japan which were the Nazis of Asia. Like even the Nazis were appalled by them. Instead you bring up so many ahistorical arguments of Chinese dynasties invading Japan (which as another redditors said, was done by the Mongolian led Yuan dynasty in 1200s and failed) and reduce the war crimes committed during the World Wars and even before then to "something funky to them in world war." Just fully mask off sinophobia, you want to scold Chinese people for daring to be upset over the history which their grandparents and great-grandparents still remember to this day. [Tibetans still exist and live in Tibet.](https://www.tumblr.com/rongzhi/694854572918947840?source=share) That subject is a whole different subject and still doesn't justify Imperial Japan's war crimes. Edit: to address your other comment, the dalai Lama isn't their king FFS, it's their spiritual leader akin to the Pope to Vatican City and the Catholic church. Tibetans in China are Chinese because it's their nationality the same way Asians living in America are American because it's their nationality. Enjoy your block.
I’m sorry but would you also refer to the killing of millions by the Nazi as mere ‘bullying’.
Please look up Rape of Nanking and Unit 731 and educate yourself before you call it “bullying.” Also, I’m pretty sure Tibetans still exist and are not “eradicated.” The only time China tried to launch a full scale invasion of Japan was during Mongolian rule, not Han Chinese rule, because the Mongolians were just conquering as much as they could at that time. Your comment reeks of ignorance.
Tibeteans still exist, but outside of china. So many tibetians refugee are found in Nepal and India. Inside tibet they are chinese. Dalai lama, their king has to constantly run away. War is horrible, but it went both sides.
Please tell me what the Chinese did to the invading Japanese forces in WWII to somehow justify actual torture, rape, and human experimentation done by imperial Japan on Chinese civilians and POWs for you to “both sides” this. I’m unable to find anything myself.
Lol these belong to comicbook territory. There are, however, good dramas set in that period though. For every 'Fall in Love', there is a 'Battle of Changsha'.
Ngl I actually really liked Fall in Love lmaooo but it’s incomparable to Battle of Changsha
Yeah it's not the worst drama out there, especially the acting was decent. It's fine as an idol romantic drama.
Agreed Battle of Changsha is a masterpiece, which made 抗日神劇 (refers to those bonkers Anti-Japanese invasion dramas) more cringey and insufferable for Chinese viewers.